Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:01On BBC News. The latest
00:00:04business news from across the globe.
00:00:06globe. Business Today. MUSIC
00:00:17MUSIC Bring Bring in the kill switch Jack Clark Clark co, founder of Anthropic, says
00:00:20says the AI industry needs more control control as fears continue to grow
00:00:24grow about its rapid evolution. Labour Labour market under pressure the
00:00:28the number of UK workers on the payroll payroll is falling, especially in
00:00:32in retail and hospitality, will bring bring you the latest numbers. Also
00:00:36Also in the programme. The price price of debt, the yield on US Treasury
00:00:39Treasury bonds hits the highest level
00:00:42level since 2023, with a fed rate rate hike looming. We'll explain
00:00:45explain what's at stake and counting
00:00:48counting the cost of cyber crime. crime. Nearly 1 in 3 businesses globally
00:00:51globally have been hit by a successful successful cyber attack in the past
00:00:55past year. We look at the financial
00:00:59financial impact. Welcome you with
00:01:02with Business Today in London with with me Sally Bundock. So we start
00:01:05start with AI and this week's storm
00:01:06storm over threats to humanity from
00:01:09from artificial intelligence has has centred around the US company
00:01:13company Anthropic, its British founder founder Jack Clark. In his only interview,
00:01:16interview, has told the BBC that that the rest of the world has to
00:01:19to set limits on the speed of AI
00:01:23AI advancements to prevent uncontrollable uncontrollable technology and the
00:01:27the emergence of unprecedented potential potential white collar unemployment.
00:01:31unemployment. He was talking to our
00:01:32our economics editor, Faisal Islam.
00:01:35Islam. AI systems for a while have
00:01:38have been useful tools with specific specific skills like translation
00:01:41translation or coding or being able able to label what's going on in in an image. And then in the last
00:01:45last few years, people have successfully successfully put all of these skills
00:01:49skills together into single systems, systems, which have started to become
00:01:51become much more intelligent and
00:01:53and much more general. These systems systems now probably about as smart
00:01:57smart as you or me or, you know, know, on a good day, smarter. The
00:02:01The basic risk is how well do you
00:02:04you fancy your chances at being able able to deal with the risks of a
00:02:07a system that is 100 times smarter smarter than the smartest person
00:02:10person on the planet? I think that that your chance of dealing with
00:02:14with that and getting out in a safe
00:02:16safe way is pretty low. So high level
00:02:19level you need to control AI as a a technology because you're making
00:02:22making things that might be smarter smarter than people, things that that are smarter than people could
00:02:25could be really, really, really dangerous. dangerous. So that's the high level.
00:02:29level. Number two, what's been happening happening over the summer? Well, Well, people have discovered that
00:02:33that when you put all of these AI AI systems together into what are
00:02:36are called agents, which are basically basically long running AI systems,
00:02:39systems, and you give them objectives, objectives, they start to co-ordinate
00:02:43co-ordinate with one another. They They start to communicate with one
00:02:45one another, and sometimes they do do things which are against what
00:02:48what you want them to do. Like they they hack out of companies and they
00:02:51they hack into other companies. That That is it's really scary. It's a
00:02:55a sign that you don't have the right right safety and security systems
00:02:59systems in place to deal with these
00:03:01these systems. And it's a it's a
00:03:04a warning shot of the kinds of risks risks that could be really serious serious today. These systems are
00:03:07are just hacking into websites that that host other AI systems. What
00:03:11What would happen if a swarm of agents
00:03:14agents hacked into a bank or into into a hospital? That could be really,
00:03:17really, really dangerous. So now now we've had the warning shot. We We need to talk about pacing and
00:03:21and we need to get a policy regime
00:03:23regime in place. To get another view.
00:03:25view. I spoke to Daan Juijn, who
00:03:27who is director of research at a
00:03:29a Brussels, Brussels based think
00:03:31think tank that specialises in AI. AI. It's called Arq Foundation. He
00:03:35He gave me his thoughts on this safety
00:03:37safety debate. We are very glad to
00:03:40to see this debate finally break
00:03:42break through to the larger public. public. I think people working on
00:03:46on AI policy or working in AI labs
00:03:49labs have been worried about these these types of risks to humanity
00:03:53humanity as a whole for years and
00:03:56and years, and sometimes have felt felt that they couldn't bring this
00:03:59this up because it sounded wacky wacky or sci-fi. Right now, we're
00:04:03we're seeing a rapid shift in public public opinion, and I'm really happy
00:04:06happy to see that. Like Jack Clark Clark from Anthropic said the AI
00:04:09AI companies currently do not sufficiently sufficiently control their AI systems.
00:04:13systems. The systems they are training training are getting more capable
00:04:16capable every day. They're not only only becoming more intelligent, they're
00:04:18they're also becoming more persuasive,
00:04:21persuasive, better at building weapons, weapons, better at controlling robots.
00:04:25robots. And if this trend continues,
00:04:27continues, we might see systems that that beat humans at basically every
00:04:31every task in just a matter of a
00:04:33a few years. OK. Clearly. So what
00:04:36what is the right way forward? Therefore, Therefore, we have got President
00:04:40President Xi of China visiting President
00:04:43President Trump in the US in a matter matter of weeks. This will be on
00:04:47on the agenda. I'm sure. Are you
00:04:49you hopeful there could be some collaboration? collaboration? But then we have to
00:04:52to bear in mind Donald Trump only
00:04:55only saying a few days ago that who
00:04:57who wins in AI wins. And that's the
00:05:00the perspective he's putting out out there at the moment. I think
00:05:04think this has long been the stance stance of the US government that
00:05:07that they need to dominate in AI.
00:05:09AI. Last year or two years ago, they
00:05:12they published AI Action Plan, which which was literally called winning
00:05:14winning the AI race. As you said, said, over the last 24 hours, President
00:05:18President Trump posted a series of
00:05:21of tweets where he ridiculed extreme extreme risks from AI and also made
00:05:25made very clear that he has no intention
00:05:27intention to slow down as a result. result. I think we should not be
00:05:31be too hopeful about this upcoming upcoming summit with the Chinese
00:05:34Chinese president. However, I am am hopeful that the President will
00:05:37will change his mind over the coming coming period. For instance, if we we see more accidents like the ones
00:05:41ones we've been seeing over the summer.
00:05:43summer. Also as well. I mean, his his mind might be shifted a bit by
00:05:47by what's happening on global financial financial markets. We're seeing a
00:05:50a bit of a sell off of AI related
00:05:53related companies, partly because because of fears of the future and
00:05:56and also the decision of OpenAI to to delay its market flotation to
00:05:59to maybe next year because of the
00:06:01the public anxiety surrounding AI. AI. That might be for other reasons.
00:06:05reasons. It might be about its own own balance sheets. But anyway, I
00:06:08I just wonder what is being said said within Europe, your organisation
00:06:12organisation itself, but also within within the European Union in collaboration
00:06:16collaboration with the UK and how how we in Europe are influencing
00:06:19influencing this debate. Yeah. So
00:06:22So it is pretty hard for middle powers
00:06:25powers at large to influence the the trajectory of AI because the
00:06:28the US and China are very much in
00:06:29in the lead. They hold a near monopoly
00:06:32monopoly on these frontier AI systems. systems. The EU does have regulation
00:06:36regulation in place through the AI
00:06:39AI act that forces developers to
00:06:41to keep to certain AI safety standards standards before they can put out
00:06:45out their models on the European European market. And I think it is
00:06:48is crucial that the EU enforces regulation regulation very strongly in particularly
00:06:52particularly in particular when it it comes to these frontier models models where we see the greatest
00:06:56greatest risks. There are also other other things that other middle powers
00:06:59powers can do. We clearly deal with
00:07:02with the lack of trust between the the US and China, and if they are
00:07:06are ever going to co-ordinate on on AI regulation, we need to increase
00:07:09increase that trust. And there are are technical ways to do that. We
00:07:11We can invest in verification technologies
00:07:15technologies that can help each of of these parties have trust that
00:07:18that the others upholding their end end of the bargain. And these are
00:07:21are technical things that middle middle powers can help develop over
00:07:24over the coming years. Don Yun, director
00:07:28director of research at Arq Foundation Foundation now here in the UK, we've
00:07:31we've just had the latest unemployment unemployment numbers and it shows
00:07:34shows the situation is largely unchanged unchanged and remains fairly. It
00:07:38It remains to be a fairly tricky tricky jobs environment, especially especially for those who are trying
00:07:42trying to find jobs. So if we take take a look first at employment,
00:07:45employment, provisional figures show show there's been a slight fall in
00:07:49in August compared to the previous
00:07:51previous month. That represents around
00:07:54around 26,000 fewer employees in
00:07:56in the workforce, and the drop has
00:07:58has been mainly in the retail and
00:08:00and hospitality sectors. The quarterly quarterly rate of unemployment has
00:08:03has stayed the same at 4.9%. That's That's in the three months to the
00:08:07the end of July. And on top of that,
00:08:11that, job vacancies remain at their
00:08:13their lowest level outside of the the pandemic. Meanwhile, if we look
00:08:17look at wages, annual growth in employees
00:08:20employees average regular earnings, earnings, including bonuses, was
00:08:24was 3.9% in May to July this year.
00:08:27year. That's unchanged from the time time before, and this figure is likely
00:08:31likely to be a defining factor in
00:08:34in the rise in the state pension pension age next April. And also
00:08:38also bear in mind that the Bank of of England is going to be meeting
00:08:41meeting this week. It's scrutinising
00:08:43scrutinising all this data before
00:08:45before they have their meeting on on Thursday. This time tomorrow we'll
00:08:49we'll have the latest inflation numbers. numbers. So that will give us a clue
00:08:53clue as to whether higher energy
00:08:55energy prices caused by the Enron Enron war will have an impact on
00:08:58on inflation. But also whether it's
00:09:00it's impacting wage growth and underlying underlying inflation. Well, let's
00:09:04let's discuss all of this with Maxine Maxine Bligh, who's interim chief
00:09:08chief executive at the Recruitment Recruitment and Employment Confederation.
00:09:12Confederation. Maxine, looking at at today's figures, what's standing
00:09:15standing out to you? Yeah. Morning,
00:09:18Morning, Sally. Well, overall it's it's really the continuation of the
00:09:21the picture that we've been seeing seeing for a while. It remains just
00:09:24just a really challenging market market for job creation and hiring.
00:09:27hiring. And I think what stands out out is given that growth was stronger
00:09:30stronger than expected for the last last quarter, we might have hoped
00:09:33hoped for slightly better in the the employment figures, but as the
00:09:36the ONS points out itself, it's high high cost of doing business and high
00:09:40high costs of hiring, particularly particularly for small companies companies that are behind some of
00:09:44of this continuing caution. But also also as well. Maxine, when you think
00:09:48think about it, if you're running
00:09:50running a business right now, it's it's so difficult to know what's
00:09:54what's ahead. Currently we've got, got, you know, a recently appointed
00:09:57appointed Prime Minister. We've got got a new chancellor, we've got a a budget coming up at the end of
00:10:01of October. I mean, I can understand understand why businesses are saying
00:10:04saying we are just not hiring currently, currently, especially when you think
00:10:07think of the wider geopolitics with
00:10:09with the Middle East, etc. Yeah, Yeah, exactly that. I mean, our surveys
00:10:13surveys show that actually businesses businesses are quite confident in
00:10:17in their own business potential and and do see potential to hire in the
00:10:21the future. But as you say, there's there's so much caution about the
00:10:24the business environment at the moment. moment. And I think that's why there's there's so much riding really. On
00:10:28On the outcome of the government's government's decisions at the moment.
00:10:30moment. So things like the consultation consultation on guaranteed hours,
00:10:34hours, the decisions it makes in
00:10:35in the budget, the plan it sets out
00:10:38out national minimum and living wage wage discussions. All of these can
00:10:41can just help signal to business business that the government is doing
00:10:45doing all it can to help unlock some
00:10:47some of the potential that's there,
00:10:49there, given how unstable the picture
00:10:52picture is geopolitically. I just just wonder, you know, we've mentioned
00:10:55mentioned the Bank of England is is going to be going through all
00:10:57all these figures, as will the Chancellor, Chancellor, John Healey, because
00:11:01because there is real concern. I've I've noticed that since the last last set of employment figures we've
00:11:05we've had, you know, a leading retail
00:11:08retail recruitment not retail sorry, sorry, a recruitment company saying
00:11:11saying graduate jobs are down 50% 50% in the past year. We've got the
00:11:15the issue of those not in education, education, employment or training.
00:11:18training. So so-called NEETs still still sitting at around a million.
00:11:21million. And there's various incentives incentives to get people back into
00:11:24into the workforce. I just wonder wonder what could be in the budget
00:11:27budget to change this. Yeah. Well,
00:11:29Well, what we're calling for is the the government to relook at the mixed
00:11:33mixed thresholds. So to think about
00:11:35about a pathway to reverse. NICs,
00:11:38NICs, National Insurance contributions. contributions. That's right. And
00:11:42And so to restore a pathway to restore restore the level that it was at,
00:11:45at, that was obviously lowered last
00:11:50last year and has impacted significantly significantly on business costs and
00:11:54and particularly, I think, led to to decisions at the entry level in
00:11:57in terms of bringing people into
00:11:59into work and, you know, into part
00:12:02part time work as well, which I think
00:12:04think does impact on NEETs and young young people in particular. There's
00:12:08There's also more to do on the growth growth and skills levy to think about
00:12:12about reforming that and think about
00:12:14about more agility in skills funding, funding, as you say, you know, the
00:12:18the environment is very uncertain uncertain at the moment. Labour market
00:12:21market flexibility is is critical critical to that and businesses are
00:12:24are really looking at, you know,
00:12:27know, short-term, where is the opportunity? opportunity? How can they deploy
00:12:29deploy people for that opportunity opportunity and be agile around that?
00:12:33that? What that looks like over the the longer term. So I think this this is, you know, quite structural
00:12:37structural change in the labour market market that the government needs
00:12:39needs to respond to in policy terms. terms. Yeah. And it's very challenging
00:12:43challenging to do that, especially especially when your fiscal headroom headroom is shrinking by the day.
00:12:46day. Maxine Blythe, thank you so so much from Recruitment and Employment
00:12:50Employment Confederation. Still to
00:12:52to come, the cost of cybercrime nearly nearly 1 in 3 businesses globally
00:12:56globally have been hit by a successful successful attack in the past year.
00:12:59year. We take a look at the financial
00:13:02financial impact around the world world and across the UK.
00:14:06truth, trust and fake news on BBC
00:14:08BBC News. You're with Business Today
00:14:16Today on BBC News. The Iran war is
00:14:19is pushing up global prices, as I'm I'm sure you are well aware. It's
00:14:23It's also having an impact on financial
00:14:25financial markets in the sense of of what it costs governments to borrow
00:14:28borrow on Monday. For the US., the
00:14:31the ten year government bonds exceeded
00:14:33exceeded 5% for the first time since
00:14:36since 2023, hitting thresholds that that ring alarm bells. The rise in
00:14:39in yields comes during a continuing continuing sell off in the US Treasury
00:14:43Treasury market, which is estimated estimated to be worth just over $31
00:14:46$31 trillion in total. And it comes comes at a time when we're expecting
00:14:50expecting the US central bank Fed
00:14:52Fed Chair Kevin Warsh to raise interest
00:14:54interest rates this week as prices prices across the US continue to
00:14:58to go up, Jane Foley, who's head head of foreign exchange strategy
00:15:01strategy at Rabobank, told us more more about these trends. This is
00:15:05is the first time since 2023 we've we've seen this sort of level. But
00:15:09But actually, if we stand back and and look at the long-term trend,
00:15:11trend, it's the first time we've we've sort of held assuming we do
00:15:15do help hold above these levels really really since the time of before the
00:15:19the global financial crisis. And And so, you know, we stand back and
00:15:21and say, well, look, is this an anomaly? anomaly? Are they going to come back
00:15:24back down? Or actually many people people would say, look, this is more
00:15:28more like a normalisation. Perhaps Perhaps the years since the global
00:15:31global financial crisis, we had extraordinarily
00:15:34extraordinarily low long-term interest interest rates. And when we think think about the reasons why well,
00:15:38well, you've been talking about oil
00:15:39oil prices. Yes. That's a significant
00:15:42significant driver of long-term interest interest rates that inflationary
00:15:46inflationary push, but also another another driver of long-term interest
00:15:50interest rates is the fiscal situation. situation. There's a lot more government
00:15:53government debt out there than there there was before the global financial
00:15:56financial crisis years. And this this is another big driver of long-term
00:16:00long-term interest rates. What does does it mean for federal government
00:16:03government in the US in terms of of servicing its debt? Does it mean
00:16:07mean it's more expensive? It's something something we talk about here in the the UK a lot. The fact that the Chancellor's
00:16:11Chancellor's fiscal headroom is shrinking shrinking and that kind of thing, thing, is that the same story in
00:16:14in the US.? Yes, it is much more
00:16:16more expensive. And what's also really really worrying, particularly in
00:16:20in the US., is the size of the budget budget deficit. Now, if you like,
00:16:24like, if you have a big budget deficit
00:16:27deficit every year, then that means means you've got an accelerating
00:16:30accelerating pile of debt every year. year. And so many people would think
00:16:33think it's that pace of that growth growth of the debt, the budget deficit
00:16:37deficit that's perhaps the most worrying. worrying. Now here in the UK, for
00:16:40for instance, many people say, well well look, there's a plan. There's There's those fiscal rules. There's
00:16:44There's some discipline here. What What is the plan in the US.? Well,
00:16:48Well, that's not so clear. We know
00:16:50know that, for instance, a lot of
00:16:53of the tax implications that we've we've seen from the current administration
00:16:56administration have sort of added added to the budget deficit. And
00:16:59And the markets perhaps are clamouring clamouring for a little bit more
00:17:03more fiscal discipline from the Trump Trump administration. OK. Well, we'll
00:17:07we'll see some discipline from the the Federal Reserve. It will play
00:17:09play its part in all of this. It's It's likely to raise rates. Do you
00:17:12you think tomorrow and if so that that puts Kevin Warsh on a collision
00:17:16collision course with President Trump. Trump. It does. But perhaps it's
00:17:19it's something that the markets need need to hear because the markets
00:17:22markets want an independent Federal Federal Reserve. They don't want want one that is under the thumb
00:17:26thumb of the President. That perhaps perhaps would make inflation fears
00:17:29fears even worse and drive up those
00:17:31those long-term interest rates even
00:17:33even more so given the inflationary inflationary concerns. I think the
00:17:36the market needs to see some hawkish hawkish response from the Federal
00:17:40Federal Reserve. And at this point, point, with 90% of a hike priced
00:17:44priced in, if he doesn't hike interest interest rates, that would likely
00:17:48likely drive a long-term interest interest rates up even more and a
00:17:51a more accelerated pace. So the market market perhaps needs to see that
00:17:54that hawkish response from the central
00:17:56central bank. Now, nearly 1 in 3 3 organisations globally have been
00:18:00been hit by a successful cyber attack attack in the past year, according
00:18:03according to research by the insurance insurance firm Hiscox. And in the
00:18:06the UK alone, it's costing businesses
00:18:08businesses on average under £36,000
00:18:11£36,000 each in damages. Eddie Lamb Lamb is global head of cyber at Hiscox
00:18:14Hiscox and told us what's going on.
00:18:16on. I mean big brands like JLR often
00:18:19often attract headline attention, attention, but of course small to
00:18:22to medium businesses in the UK are are the backbone of our economy and
00:18:26and are a target, of course, for for cyber crime. And what our research
00:18:30research has shown us is that 40%,
00:18:3240%, nearly of all SMEs in the United United Kingdom have experienced at
00:18:36at least one cyber attack over the the course of the last 12 months.
00:18:40months. In actual fact, many of them
00:18:42them report multiple cyber attacks
00:18:44attacks over that period. When you you look at the costs, as they as
00:18:48as they rack up sort of $36,000 to
00:18:52to remediate or to recover from an an incident like that. When you play
00:18:56play that out over the sort of the
00:18:58the UK economy at scale, you start start to see the impact that that
00:19:02that is having on, on the UK economy. economy. If you look at, you know,
00:19:06know, 40% of SMEs is around, you
00:19:10you know, 2.2 million small to medium medium businesses in the UK with
00:19:13with an average loss following a
00:19:15a cyber attack of around $36,000.
00:19:18$36,000. Then that comes out to around
00:19:22around $80 billion last year in terms
00:19:24terms of the impact of cyber crime crime on the United Kingdom economy.
00:19:27economy. Yeah. And there's also the
00:19:30the operational disruption that the
00:19:32the anxiety it causes and also the
00:19:35the hit to a brand and to the reputation reputation of a business. So it's
00:19:38it's felt on so many levels and yet
00:19:40yet it seems so persistent and relentless
00:19:43relentless for a small businesses businesses and medium sized company. company. I mean, how do they deal
00:19:47deal with this? Yeah, I think what
00:19:49what our research has shown us is is that UK businesses are proving
00:19:53proving to be very resilient. So
00:19:54So they tend to be targeted more
00:19:57more frequently than peers in, in
00:20:00in the US and Europe. But what they they do do. Why is that Eddie? Why
00:20:03Why are we targeted more frequently frequently in the UK is because we
00:20:06we haven't got such secure systems.
00:20:09systems. It could just be a reporting reporting issue. Sally, in terms
00:20:11terms of who reports what within within each different jurisdiction.
00:20:14jurisdiction. But if you look at at what the research has shown us
00:20:18us is, is the United Kingdom small small to medium business space is
00:20:21is very resilient. So whilst they they might have or report higher
00:20:25higher frequencies of attack, their their recovery times are much faster.
00:20:28faster. So if you look at the global
00:20:31global average is around 32 hours hours of downtime following a cyber
00:20:34cyber attack compared to UK based
00:20:36based SMEs recovering in around 24
00:20:3924 hours. You can also compare that that against the average cost of
00:20:42of a cyber attack. So in the UK, UK, businesses tend to it tends to
00:20:46to cost businesses around $36,000
00:20:48$36,000 compared to a global average
00:20:52average of around $51,000. Really
00:20:55Really costly. The. The event of
00:20:58of a cyber attack on businesses. businesses. That's a look at our
00:21:01our website. As you can see, the the BBC News app as well is also
00:21:05also available with a special business business page. Do take a look if
00:21:07if you wish to find out more in business.
00:21:31in association with Turkish Airlines.
00:21:35Airlines. I'm travelling through through Japan, going off the beaten
00:21:38beaten track to find out what makes
00:21:40makes this country unique. This is
00:21:43is ultimate Japan. This time I visit
00:21:48visit Toba in the south to witness witness the ultimate Japanese fishing
00:21:52fishing tradition. I'm on a small
00:21:54small island in an area called Toba,
00:21:56Toba, which is home to one of Japan's
00:21:58Japan's most unusual communities
00:22:00communities a group, mostly women women who over generations have forged
00:22:04forged a really tight bond with both
00:22:06both the sea and nature generally.
00:22:16generally. AMA are iconic Japanese
00:22:18Japanese freedivers who collect seafood, seafood, seaweed and even pearls
00:22:21pearls from the sea floor. Almost
00:22:24Almost all AMA are women and many
00:22:26many keep diving until their 70s.
00:22:2970s. 80s and even 90s diving without
00:22:33without oxygen in their traditional traditional white outfits. It's a a centuries old way of life that's
00:22:37that's been passed down through generations,
00:22:40generations, but today's divers under under threat from all the pressures
00:22:44pressures of modernity, are having having to adapt. Like here, displaying
00:22:48displaying their skills for tourists.
00:22:52tourists. Talbi what is this show
00:22:55show about. Amazon. There are know
00:23:04know so. Which do you prefer getting
00:23:08getting real fish or do you like like doing this and performing to
00:23:12to tourists. Or not? Oh, no no no
00:23:18no I. It's kind of ironic because
00:23:22because for a long time Japan was
00:23:24was a homogenous and quite inward
00:23:27inward looking society. But it's it's outsiders, tourists who are
00:23:30are now providing a major industry
00:23:32industry here. But rest assured elsewhere elsewhere there is still some genuine
00:23:36genuine AMA diving going on a few
00:23:39few miles along the shore in Asatsu Asatsu I meet some divers who are
00:23:43are still making a living from this
00:23:44this traditional form of fishing.
00:23:50fishing. He Abha so the Amazon Maya
00:23:54Maya Stark. Among us Watashi wa Umi.
00:24:05Umi. Yukimasu. So I don't know. I
00:24:10I don't know Oyo State mo. Yoko Ono
00:24:23Ono ono. Yet these AMA still need
00:24:28need to supplement their income by
00:24:30by preparing meals for. Well, people
00:24:34people like me. How is it different
00:24:36different now diving to when you
00:24:38you first started doing it. So Martin
00:24:49Martin Lindsay. And why do you think
00:24:52think that is? Do you think AMA diving
00:24:56diving will carry on? I know. Oyo.
00:25:14Oyo. Even having spent just a few few hours with these charming ladies
00:25:18ladies has made me realise that the the traditional old ways aren't just
00:25:21just romantic. They actually offer
00:25:23offer a viable way of life for the the next generation. It was really
00:25:27really interesting to learn that that people are coming back here
00:25:29here to actually live and work as
00:25:31as AMA divers. Maybe it's just very
00:25:34very Japanese. The past is also the
00:25:38the future.
00:25:51on BBC News in association with Turkish
00:25:53Turkish Airlines.
00:29:28MUSIC
00:30:10Live from London this is BBC
00:30:12News. I'm Karin Giannone. The authorities authorities in Lithuania spend the
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00:30:30technology spiralling out of control. control. The public inquiry into
00:30:33into how former nurse Lucy Letby Letby was able to murder seven babies
00:30:37babies and attempt to kill seven seven more is due to publish its
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00:30:54police protection is to be reviewed reviewed as they change their children's
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