Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:07MUSIC
00:00:16Hello and welcome to The
00:00:18Context USA with me Caitriona Perry Perry in Washington. And with me,
00:00:21me, Ben Brown here in London and
00:00:23and this hour the US military confirms
00:00:25confirms for the first time that that it has deployed weapons in space.
00:00:29space. I went to the US Space Force
00:00:32Force in Colorado last year and they
00:00:34they made clear that they were going
00:00:37going to defend their interests in
00:00:40in space. Pentagon leadership under under the spotlight. New information
00:00:44information on the cost of the US US war with Iran. While the Secretary
00:00:47Secretary of Defence is threatened threatened with impeachment by a
00:00:51a Republican congressman. The Secretary Secretary Hegseth has acted in a
00:00:55a manner contrary to his trust as
00:00:57as Secretary of Defence and subversive subversive of constitutional government.
00:01:01government. Plus, the head of European European Parliament's defence committee
00:01:05committee will be joining us live live on the programme after warnings
00:01:08warnings from Lithuanian leaders leaders that the war in Ukraine is
00:01:11is spreading. Nato forces shoot down
00:01:13down a Russian drone over Lithuania.
00:01:15Lithuania. We seek no conflict with
00:01:18with Russia. We are a purely defensive defensive alliance and I think I
00:01:22I make that clear. But we can't pretend
00:01:24pretend we are not seeing what Russia
00:01:27Russia is doing. Joining us on our
00:01:29our panel, Matthew Foldi editor in in chief of The Washington reporter
00:01:33reporter and Chris Maher, former former assistant to the Secretary
00:01:36Secretary of Defence for Public Affairs
00:01:38Affairs and former White House deputy
00:01:41deputy press secretary. Hello. You're
00:01:52You're very welcome to The Context Context USA now for the first time,
00:01:55time, the US military has confirmed
00:01:58confirmed that it has deployed weapons weapons into space to protect itself
00:02:01itself from what it's calling hostile hostile adversary action. It's being
00:02:05being called a landmark moment in in the growing militarisation of
00:02:08of space. Yes, the announcement came came from the US Secretary of the
00:02:11the Air Force, who was speaking at
00:02:13at a space and cyber conference. conference. Well, in response to
00:02:17to what he said, both China and Russia
00:02:19Russia issued statements of condemnation condemnation even though they are
00:02:23are widely both thought to be part
00:02:25part of a new arms race in space. space. Russia said it was calling
00:02:28calling for space to be kept free free from weapons, while China said
00:02:32said it opposed what it called the
00:02:34the weaponization of outer space. space. Space said China should not
00:02:38not be turned into a battlefield.
00:02:41battlefield. China has. Always been been committed to the peaceful use
00:02:44use of outer space and safeguarding safeguarding security in outer space.
00:02:47space. We urge the US to stop its its military build up and war preparations
00:02:51preparations in outer space, and
00:02:52and take concrete actions to safeguard
00:02:55safeguard global strategic stability.
00:02:59stability. So that was China's view. view. Let's talk to Clayton Swope,
00:03:03Swope, who's deputy director of the
00:03:06the Aerospace Security Project and and a senior fellow in the Defence
00:03:09Defence and security department at at the centre for Strategic and International International Studies. Good to have
00:03:13have you with us. I mean, first of of all, I suppose people might be
00:03:17be asking, well, A, what kind of of weapons does America have in space?
00:03:20space? And B, why are they announcing
00:03:23announcing this now? Well, Ben, I'm I'm asking the same question. We
00:03:26We don't know what kind of weapon weapon that the US has in space.
00:03:30space. It's just that the US has has a weapon. It's similar to saying
00:03:33saying we have a weapon at sea. We
00:03:35We have a weapon on land. There could
00:03:38could be a lot of different types types of weapons that we're talking talking about here. When we talk
00:03:42talk about counterspace weapons, weapons, space control weapons, we
00:03:44we usually think about kinetic weapons. weapons. These are weapons like a
00:03:48a missile that might be shot from from a satellite at another satellite
00:03:51satellite to destroy it or disable disable it. They might be jamming
00:03:54jamming and spoofing of signals. signals. It might even be something something like a laser that's meant
00:03:58meant to dazzle the sensor of another another satellite. So it really runs
00:04:02runs the gamut of type of weapons weapons that we're talking about.
00:04:04about. But really what is significant significant is just that the US has
00:04:08has said we have weapons in space,
00:04:10space, period. And we heard, as I I mentioned, their condemnation from
00:04:13from China and Russia. But I mean, mean, the assumption is they're also
00:04:17also trying to get weapons in space, space, even if they don't have them,
00:04:21them, they're already. When it comes
00:04:24comes to Russia, it's really not not an assumption. Going back to
00:04:26to the Soviet Union during the 60s,
00:04:2960s, the Soviets were developing developing technology co-orbital
00:04:33co-orbital anti-satellite weapons, weapons, which would shoot out projectiles
00:04:37projectiles at other satellites to
00:04:38to disable them. And Russia has continued continued testing technology like
00:04:42like that. The United States and and allies routinely call out Russia
00:04:45Russia for tests that we all see see from the earth. It's very apparent
00:04:48apparent what happens when Russia
00:04:50Russia is testing co-orbital kinetic kinetic anti-satellite technology.
00:04:54technology. I think with China it's it's a little more murky. We don't
00:04:57don't quite know what China has on on orbit when it comes to weapons.
00:05:01weapons. We do know China tests a a lot of technologies that are dual
00:05:05dual use. They could serve a civilian
00:05:07civilian purpose like debris removal removal or satellite servicing, but
00:05:10but they could also serve as weapons. weapons. So China clearly has the
00:05:14the technology to have weapons on on orbit. And it's really just a
00:05:17a matter of intention, is that technology technology intended as a weapon or
00:05:20or is it intended for a civilian civilian purpose? And that intention
00:05:23intention could could flip in an an instant. So is there a kind of
00:05:26of arms race in space at the moment?
00:05:28moment? How important is space militarily militarily between these sort of
00:05:32of rival powers? Yeah, that's a really really interesting question. I think
00:05:35think if you look back to the earliest earliest days of the space race,
00:05:39race, really the first human made made object into space, not into
00:05:42into orbit, but just into space. space. This was a V-2 missile test
00:05:46test in June 1944 from Germany. So So really from the start, it's hard
00:05:49hard to separate the military use use of space with a civilian and
00:05:53and peaceful use of space. Space Space has always played a strong
00:05:56strong military and defence role role throughout the Cold War. You You know, the things that maybe are
00:05:59are different today is that you do do have more activities in space
00:06:02space that are not just government
00:06:03government activities. It's an area
00:06:06area of economic growth and commerce. commerce. People want to make money
00:06:10money in space. People are flying flying satellites in space. Companies
00:06:13Companies are not just governments. governments. So you've kind of created created more of a diverse environment
00:06:16environment that looks like the land. land. It looks like what's happening happening on earth. So it's a lot
00:06:20lot more complicated than it was was in the early days of the space
00:06:23space race, when humans first went went into orbit. So really that's that's the change there. But this
00:06:27this idea that we're now just using using space for military purposes,
00:06:31purposes, that's just not correct. correct. It's a trend that has been been going on for a very long time.
00:06:35time. All right. Well, good to get
00:06:37get your expert analysis then of of where we are with weapons in space.
00:06:40space. That's Clayton Swope deputy deputy director of the Aerospace
00:06:44Aerospace Security Project. Thank
00:06:45Thank you very much. Well, let's
00:06:49let's bring in our panellists Matthew Matthew Foldi editor in chief of
00:06:52of the Washington reporter and a a former congressional candidate
00:06:55candidate in Maryland. And Chris Chris Maher, former Pentagon spokesperson
00:06:59spokesperson and former White House House deputy press secretary in the
00:07:02the Biden administration. Thanks Thanks to you both for being here,
00:07:05here, Chris, to you first, having
00:07:07having worked in the Pentagon, should
00:07:10should we be afraid, nervous, concerned concerned about this admission that
00:07:13that there are weapons now in
00:07:18space? Yeah, I'd say it's interesting. interesting. You know, the thing
00:07:20thing about our space operations
00:07:23operations is it's almost entirely
00:07:25entirely classified. And the United United States government, the Department
00:07:29Department of Defence doesn't often often talk about it. But the fact
00:07:31fact is the US has to be ready to
00:07:34to compete with adversaries in every every domain. That includes space.
00:07:38space. I think you've seen over the
00:07:40the last decade or so a real investment investment in that domain. That's
00:07:44That's why we have a combatant command, command, space command that's focused
00:07:47focused on space. It's why we have have an entire military branch, the
00:07:51the Space Force dedicated to space.
00:07:53space. It's essential to virtually
00:07:56virtually every military operation. operation. Now you have GPs, satellite
00:08:00satellite communications, missile missile warnings, a lot of missiles
00:08:04missiles fly through different orbits
00:08:05orbits in space. And so we need to
00:08:10to invest heavily in space capabilities
00:08:13capabilities because this is where
00:08:15where a lot of the sort of next fights
00:08:18fights might take place or what's what's happening in space might impact
00:08:21impact what's happening on the ground. ground. And Matthew, I mean, it's
00:08:24it's no surprise at all really that that the US military is doing this.
00:08:27this. Just as we were discussing discussing the Chinese and the Russian
00:08:31Russian military, as are too. But But I suppose what the surprise is
00:08:34is that the US military should talk talk about this. Why do you think
00:08:37think they have done that? It might might be a possible shot across the
00:08:41the bow. And I disagree with you you guys calling it a landmark. I
00:08:43I think it's more of a space mark
00:08:45mark here, but it definitely is.
00:08:48is. It's literally it's undoubtedly undoubtedly a huge deal. And I mean,
00:08:51mean, look at the end of the day, day, the difference is our government. government. Yes. While Chris is right,
00:08:55right, we probably want to keep some some of these things clandestine. clandestine. We live in an open society
00:08:59society with the free press, whereas whereas who's really angry about
00:09:01about this right now? China, Russia,
00:09:04Russia, these are countries that that are probably working on it. it. Think about what happened with
00:09:08with AI. No one had ever heard of of DeepSeek. And then all of a sudden
00:09:11sudden China says, hey world, here's here's a free AI tool that's definitely
00:09:14definitely not spyware that you can can install on your laptops. They're
00:09:18They're definitely both working on
00:09:19on this as well. China may be too
00:09:22too busy building islands in the
00:09:25the Pacific, and Russia may be too
00:09:27too busy killing people in Ukraine,
00:09:30Ukraine, killing civilians to be
00:09:32be focusing on the space race. But
00:09:34But remember back in the 80s when
00:09:37when Trump's political ideology was was being formed, when he was first
00:09:40first looking at running for office, office, Ronald Reagan was building
00:09:43building out Star Wars. He was mocked mocked for this. But this is widely
00:09:46widely credited for helping to ultimately ultimately bankrupt the Soviet Union
00:09:50Union and also prepare America for for the 21st century. I think the
00:09:53the other point that's really important important here is the dual use capability
00:09:57capability of technology. Think about about Starlink, for example. That's
00:10:01That's not a military technology. technology. But when I was in Ukraine
00:10:04Ukraine earlier this year, we were were getting shelled or drone struck.
00:10:08struck. Obviously I lived by Russians. Russians. One of the things that that the Ukrainian military was emphasising
00:10:12emphasising to the group that I was
00:10:14was with is they want Starlink access
00:10:16access into Russia so that they can can use it to aim their missiles.
00:10:20missiles. So the same technology technology Starlink that I used when
00:10:23when I was in a jungle in Rwanda Rwanda to be able to send emails,
00:10:27emails, can also have a very clear clear and obvious military purpose.
00:10:30purpose. That said, the Trump administration administration is saying, yeah, we
00:10:33we have weapons in space. I think think that this is sort of the f
00:10:37f a faux muscular foreign policy policy that we see from Trump a lot
00:10:39lot of the time now extended to infinity
00:10:44infinity and beyond. And Chris, does does it raise other questions about
00:10:48about jurisdiction, as in, who owns
00:10:50owns the space in space, if you like, like, if people can countries can
00:10:54can just send up weapon systems or
00:10:56or defence systems as the case may
00:10:59may be. Yeah for sure. And you know,
00:11:03know, I there's questions about space
00:11:07space debris when when and if you
00:11:09you know, a satellite from an adversary adversary strikes one of our satellites
00:11:12satellites and it blows up. So there's there's a lot of different considerations
00:11:15considerations here. I think Matthew
00:11:18Matthew landed on an important point point that this announcement could
00:11:21could very well be about strengthening strengthening our deterrence. You
00:11:25You know, I don't know that the goal
00:11:27goal is to militarise space. It's It's to prevent conflict from spreading
00:11:31spreading there. And the US making
00:11:34making clear that we have assets
00:11:36assets up there that can take the
00:11:39the battle to the adversary and that that attacking American space assets
00:11:43assets could carry consequences while while establishing, you know, channels
00:11:47channels to reduce that that miscalculation.
00:11:51miscalculation. I think that's probably probably an important point for the
00:11:54the United States military to make
00:11:56make to some of our adversaries as
00:11:58as we're contemplating this new frontier. frontier. All right. Well, Chris
00:12:02Chris and Matthew, thank you for for those opening thoughts and remarks.
00:12:06remarks. We're going to take a short short break. We're going to be talking
00:12:08talking actually about defence matters matters here on earth, specifically
00:12:11specifically to do with the Pentagon Pentagon and Defence Secretary Pete
00:12:14Pete Hegseth. In just a moment. We'll We'll be back in a
00:13:18broadcaster compete with the global global streaming giants. That's all
00:13:21all on The Media Show on BBC News.
00:13:29News. You're watching The Context Context USA on BBC News Now. The
00:13:32The US Defence Secretary of War Secretary
00:13:34Secretary Pete Hegseth is no stranger stranger to controversy. And today,
00:13:38today, on the floor of the US House House of Representatives, Republican
00:13:42Republican Congressman Thomas Massie Massie has introduced a resolution
00:13:45resolution to impeach the secretary.
00:13:48secretary. Yeah, he accuses Mr Hegseth
00:13:50Hegseth of defying Congress and illegally illegally continuing the US war in
00:13:53in Iran. The resolution also takes
00:13:56takes aim at the Defence Secretary Secretary over American military
00:13:59military operations in both Yemen Yemen and in Venezuela. It claims
00:14:02claims Pete Hegseth illegally directed directed the operation to capture
00:14:06capture the Venezuelan president, president, Nicolas Maduro. Without
00:14:10Without congressional approval. As As secretary, Hegseth has acted in
00:14:13in a manner contrary to his trust
00:14:16trust as Secretary of Defence and and subversive of constitutional
00:14:19constitutional government to the the great prejudice of the cause cause of law and justice and to the
00:14:23the manifest entry of the people
00:14:24people of the United States. Wherefore,
00:14:28Wherefore, Secretary of Defence Peter Peter Hegseth, by such conduct has has demonstrated that he will remain
00:14:32remain a threat to the Constitution Constitution if allowed to remain
00:14:34remain in office and has acted in in a manner grossly incompatible incompatible with his duties and
00:14:38and the rule of law. Peter Brian Brian Hegseth thus warrants impeachment
00:14:42impeachment and trial removal from from office and disqualification
00:14:45disqualification to hold and enjoy enjoy any office of honour, trust
00:14:48trust or profit under the United
00:14:50United States. Now we're going to to be talking about a new report
00:14:54report on spending at the Pentagon Pentagon in just a few moments, but
00:14:57but let's bring our panellists in in here on this issue of potentially
00:15:01potentially the impeachment of Pete Pete Hegseth. Matthew Foldi and Chris
00:15:04Chris Meagher are with us. Matthew, Matthew, we saw earlier in the year
00:15:07year Democrats launch articles of of impeachment against Pete Hegseth
00:15:10Hegseth as well. And now coming from from a Republican congressman, could
00:15:13could he be in trouble here? Could Could we see impeachment proceedings
00:15:17proceedings against him? No, I don't
00:15:21don't think so. And for our viewers viewers across the pond, you got
00:15:23got to understand Thomas Massie is
00:15:27is basically persona non grata with
00:15:29with both his fellow House Republicans Republicans and with the Trump administration.
00:15:33administration. What this will probably probably do because we live in an
00:15:36an era of reverse polarisation is
00:15:39is ingratiate Hegseth to Trump even even more. Trump and his allies poured
00:15:43poured millions and millions of dollars, dollars, one of the most expensive
00:15:46expensive House primaries ever in
00:15:49in successfully defeating Massie Massie in a Republican primary earlier
00:15:52earlier this year, there had been been halfhearted efforts in the past,
00:15:55past, but almost the entire organised organised Republican Party this year
00:15:59year said it's finally time to get get rid of Thomas Massie. He would
00:16:01would vote with Democrats on almost almost every single procedural issue.
00:16:04issue. So now, in his final weeks
00:16:06weeks in office, he's launching a
00:16:09a crusade of sorts against Pete Hegseth. Hegseth. What will be interesting
00:16:12interesting to see if this comes comes to a vote, which it probably probably won't, is what level of
00:16:15of support you see from Democrats Democrats on this prior to our election,
00:16:19election, because an open question question that we face heading into
00:16:21into the mid-terms is Democrats are
00:16:23are trying to figure out how they
00:16:26they message their probable plans
00:16:28plans to impeach Trump while also
00:16:31also saying, hey, voters, we're going going to be responsible. We're going going to focus on affordability,
00:16:35affordability, not on impeaching impeaching Trump and his cabinet. cabinet. This is actually, I think,
00:16:38think, going to be more of a difficult difficult issue for Democrats to
00:16:42to navigate. Republicans will just just brush this aside very quickly.
00:16:46quickly. Chris, is this really just
00:16:48just a bit of a political stunt?
00:16:52stunt? Yeah, I mean, I think the
00:16:55the timing and as Matthew sort of
00:16:57of laid out, a lot of the context
00:17:00context around Congressman Massie,
00:17:01Massie, you know, I think it'll be
00:17:04be interesting Republicans to sort sort of flip the conversation. Republicans,
00:17:07Republicans, in theory, I think,
00:17:08think, have enough votes to defeat
00:17:12defeat this idea, this proposal.
00:17:14proposal. But it could be a complicated
00:17:16complicated vote for some members
00:17:18members and competitive, competitive,
00:17:21competitive, elected election districts.
00:17:23districts. Here we are 49 days away away from the primary. You know,
00:17:26know, this war is and continues to
00:17:30to be incredibly unpopular among
00:17:33among the American public. It's contributed
00:17:35contributed to rising costs in the the United States and made things
00:17:39things more expensive for people. people. And people have made that
00:17:41that direct connection between the
00:17:43the two. So how Republicans line
00:17:48line up on that issue will be interesting interesting should this actually
00:17:51actually come to vote on the House House floor? Well, we're going to
00:17:53to talk about the costs of the war war with Iran right now, actually.
00:17:56actually. And today we got a slightly
00:17:58slightly clearer sense of what those
00:18:00those costs might amount to. Indeed,
00:18:05Indeed, because President Trump has, has, of course, long maintained that
00:18:08that the US has virtually endless endless stores of the resources that
00:18:12that it needs in warfare. He's always
00:18:15always talking about the strength strength of the US military. But
00:18:18But for the first time, the Pentagon's
00:18:21Pentagon's independent inspector inspector general has officially officially acknowledged that the
00:18:24the US seven month war with Iran
00:18:26Iran has created what it calls strategic
00:18:30strategic inventory shortfalls in in key munitions. Well, let's talk
00:18:33talk to our White House reporter reporter Bernd Debusmann, who has
00:18:37has been following this report today. today. Indeed lots of developments
00:18:40developments relating to the Department Department of Defence and the Pentagon
00:18:44Pentagon today. But on this point
00:18:46point of how much the war with Iran
00:18:48Iran has cost, what's this report
00:18:51report telling us? Well, the new
00:18:55new report from the inspector general general at the Pentagon put the price
00:18:58price tag for the war at over $33
00:19:01$33 billion. And of that, two thirds
00:19:03thirds are a result of expanded stockpiles, stockpiles, expended ammunition.
00:19:06ammunition. Now that's, as you mentioned, mentioned, very, very different than
00:19:09than what we've heard from President President Trump, from Defence Secretary
00:19:11Secretary Pete Hegseth and other other administration officials who
00:19:15who for months had said that the
00:19:17the US has enough munitions to continue
00:19:20continue the war if it so chose and and that it doesn't have any shortages
00:19:23shortages that might cause problems problems in other potential theatres
00:19:26theatres of war overseas. So you're you're seeing two very different different pictures of the cost of
00:19:29of this war from the administration administration and from the Pentagon's Pentagon's inspector general, and
00:19:33and a separate report from the Congressional Congressional Budget Office put the
00:19:35the price tag slightly higher at at $38 billion, taking into account
00:19:39account things like rising fuel prices prices and replacements for damaged
00:19:43damaged and destroyed aircraft. Now
00:19:45Now the other bit of information information that we learned today
00:19:48today in this report from the Inspector
00:19:50Inspector General is around the damage
00:19:52damage that has been caused to US US military infrastructure from this
00:19:56this war with Iran, from those Iranian Iranian retaliatory strikes, because
00:20:00because many commentators have been been questioning for months now trying
00:20:03trying to get answers as to what what has been the damage, what has
00:20:06has been the level of casualties, casualties, first of all, and how
00:20:10how many hits the US has sustained
00:20:12sustained on its bases in the region?
00:20:15region? Well, it did paint a very very expensive picture of aircraft
00:20:19aircraft and equipment losses in in this war. There was as many as
00:20:22as 30 predator drones that have been
00:20:24been lost and some very expensive
00:20:27expensive aircraft FF15 fighter jets
00:20:29jets and one F-35 fighter jet. Also, Also, there's $200 million in damage
00:20:32damage to US diplomatic facilities facilities in the Gulf from those
00:20:35those Iranian retaliatory strikes strikes and all that collectively collectively comes together along
00:20:39along with the expenditures of the the munitions to bring that quite
00:20:43quite high price tag on the war. war. But we've not heard anything
00:20:46anything yet from President Trump Trump or the administration itself itself about that discrepancy between
00:20:49between what they've been saying saying about equipment losses and and the cost of the war and what
00:20:53what the Pentagon's inspector general general has said. OK, Burns, thank
00:20:57thank you very much. That's Bernd Bernd Debusmann there are White House
00:21:00House reporter thank you for that
00:21:01that update. Let's go back to our
00:21:04our panel. Matthew Foldi and Chris
00:21:06Chris Meagher. Matthew, I mean, as as we were just hearing there that,
00:21:10that, you know, the Trump administration administration for months has been
00:21:13been denying any shortage of ammunitions. ammunitions. Now we're hearing there
00:21:16there is a strategic shortfall. What's
00:21:18What's going on? Well, when you're
00:21:21you're taking out the head of the the snake of global sponsorship of
00:21:25of terrorism, your munitions aren't aren't going to go up. They're going going to go down. So I think that's
00:21:29that's what's going on. And it's it's not just with Iran. We've been
00:21:33been sending missiles to Ukraine. Ukraine. A lot of those were antiquated
00:21:36antiquated Cold War era missiles missiles that we probably don't need.
00:21:39need. And we ourselves probably don't don't want to use anyway. I think
00:21:42think the solution here is to just just build more so that we don't
00:21:45don't have any strategic shortfall shortfall whatsoever. But think about
00:21:48about this. It was just the 25th
00:21:5025th year anniversary of 9/11. We
00:21:53We have let Iran run amok, its regime regime with blood on its hands, American
00:21:57American blood on its hands, British British blood on its hands. For almost
00:22:01almost five decades. The bill was was going to come due for that at
00:22:03at some point. And it's cheaper now
00:22:05now to pay it than later. And think
00:22:08think back to February, when we launched launched the initial decapitation decapitation strikes. I think that
00:22:12that that cost, I don't know, $1.3
00:22:14$1.3 billion to take out the entire
00:22:17entire first tranche of Iranian leadership. leadership. Honestly, I think that's
00:22:20that's actually a pretty good ROI. ROI. This isn't going to be cheap,
00:22:24cheap, but the alternative of inaction inaction and letting these guys control
00:22:27control the Strait of Hormuz, which which we're seeing the whole world world depend on, is something that
00:22:30that we were going to have to pay pay for one way or another down the the road. Trump is just taking the
00:22:34the hits on it right now, but a future future American President was going
00:22:37going to have to deal with this. Can I just press you though? though? I mean, you say it's not
00:22:40not surprising there is a shortage shortage of munitions or shortfall,
00:22:43shortfall, as it's called. But then then why is the administration been
00:22:46been denying that for so long? Well,
00:22:49Well, I think this goes back to what what we were talking about at the
00:22:52the beginning with China and Russia Russia more or less denying that
00:22:56that they have ambitions in space. space. Well, look, we live in an
00:22:59an open society and open country. country. The Pentagon has failed
00:23:02failed every single audit for the the past seven years. And we have
00:23:05have a lot of transparency with that. that. You know, I just think that's
00:23:08that's what it comes down to is we
00:23:11we don't have the restrictions on
00:23:13on information that the UK and America America put in place in World War
00:23:17War II, for example, to keep up full
00:23:20full support for the war effort. effort. Honestly, I think it's great
00:23:23great as an American to see our government
00:23:26government being this potentially potentially detrimentally transparent,
00:23:28transparent, even though we are at at war with the leading global sponsor
00:23:32sponsor of terrorism. Look, I don't don't know why they've said we don't
00:23:35don't have a shortfall of munitions. munitions. It's a great question. question. I don't know the answer.
00:23:38answer. But now the solution moving moving forward is just build more. more. And that's what you see with
00:23:42with their prioritisation of reshoring reshoring of our own defence. That's
00:23:46That's very important moving forward. forward. And there is though a time
00:23:50time lag on, on rebuilding weapons weapons as we know. We've talked talked about that before. But Chris,
00:23:53Chris, is there a is there a management management question here in terms
00:23:57terms of as Matthew says, there is is a price when you mount a war,
00:24:00war, but if it leaves the US in a a place where it's perhaps not as
00:24:04as capable or not as ready, should
00:24:06should it have to defend itself in in another part of the world? Yes,
00:24:10Yes, of course. I mean, you have
00:24:12have to be planning for every contingency. contingency. It's very clear that
00:24:16that when Donald Trump decided to
00:24:18to enter into this war with Iran, Iran, that he thought he could put
00:24:21put an end to it within a couple couple of days. We're now several
00:24:24several months into the war. We're We're tens of billions of dollars
00:24:27dollars into it. And as discussed,
00:24:29discussed, we've used a lot of capabilities
00:24:32capabilities that we need to be stowing stowing away. You know, we're discovering,
00:24:35discovering, you know, there's a a lot of talk about China and Russia. Russia. They're watching this with
00:24:39with eyes wide open because they're they're seeing that our arsenal isn't
00:24:42isn't deep enough for the war, that that we're supposed to be preparing
00:24:45preparing for. Down the road in the the Indo Pacific, every interceptor
00:24:49interceptor we're firing over the the Middle East is one that we're
00:24:52we're not available to use to defend
00:24:56defend American forces or Nato allies
00:24:58allies or Taiwan down the road. When When it comes to the industrial base,
00:25:02base, there's been a lot of work work over the last several years
00:25:04years to speed that up, but you can't can't surge your way out of a six
00:25:08six month war if your industrial industrial base takes years to replace
00:25:11replace what you've been firing in in months. Some of these weapons
00:25:14weapons that we've been firing take
00:25:16take months, even up to a year to
00:25:18to build just one single capability.
00:25:20capability. And so I think it shows
00:25:23shows the short-sightedness of this this administration getting into
00:25:26into the war in the first place. place. Another example, the closure
00:25:29closure of the Strait of Hormuz. Hormuz. It doesn't really seem like
00:25:33like they had a plan for that when when it happened. And we've been
00:25:36been paying the price ever
00:25:40since. And of course, we're talking talking about that day in, day out
00:25:42out as things deteriorate in that that region as well, which we will
00:25:46will address a little bit later on. on. But we'll leave the discussion discussion there for the moment.
00:25:49moment. On matters at the Pentagon. Pentagon. Lots more else to talk
00:25:52talk about. Matthew Foldi and Chris Chris Meagher. Do stay with us and
00:25:55and please stay with us at home there there because we have lots more still
00:25:58still to come for you here. On The
00:26:00The Context USA on BBC News.
00:27:36still in the mid to high 40s by.
00:29:54online at bbc.com/business to get get the latest news wherever you
00:29:57you are. Business on BBC News. Make
00:30:00Make the connection. MUSIC
00:30:10MUSIC
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