Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:08MUSIC
00:00:17I'm Caitriona Perry in Washington and this is BBC World
00:00:20World News America. King Charles
00:00:23Charles urges leading tech bosses bosses developing AI to ensure our
00:00:26our humanity remains sacred, as he
00:00:29he warns of existential dangers.
00:00:33dangers. Those who have created these
00:00:35these technologies are now increasingly increasingly warning that AI risks
00:00:39risks developing darker capacities.
00:00:42capacities. Perhaps even to take
00:00:45take life. Possible war crimes by
00:00:48by the US that's the verdict of a
00:00:50a UN panel investigating two deadly deadly strikes in Iran this February.
00:00:54February. The US rejects that report
00:00:57report and Canada's Prime Minister
00:00:59Minister hails its prospect of associate associate membership of the EU while
00:01:03while rejecting US criticism of the
00:01:07the alliance. MUSIC
00:01:18MUSIC Hello. Hello. You're very welcome to the
00:01:21the programme. Let's start in the the UK because King Charles is warning
00:01:25warning tech leaders about the existential existential dangers of artificial
00:01:29artificial intelligence. The monarch monarch called for more oversight
00:01:32oversight on AI, saying that it could could develop darker capacities.
00:01:35capacities. He made the comments comments on Thursday during a summit
00:01:37summit in Scotland to address mounting
00:01:40mounting security concerns posed posed by the technology. Tech giants
00:01:43giants including Nvidia, DeepMind, DeepMind, OpenAI and Anthropic were
00:01:47were gathered together there for for the first time since industry
00:01:50industry leaders called for a co-ordinated co-ordinated slowdown in AI development.
00:01:54development. Our correspondent Shiona
00:01:56Shiona McCallum has more. Not just
00:02:00just another royal engagement for for the King he was hosting Jensen
00:02:04Jensen Huang, the boss of one of
00:02:05of the world's most valuable companies,
00:02:08companies, Nvidia and Sir Demis Hassabis, Hassabis, the co-founder of Google
00:02:11Google DeepMind, along with some some of the world's most influential
00:02:15influential voices on AI. And as as soon as pleasantries were over,
00:02:18over, it was a stark warning. There
00:02:20There seems urgency in adequately
00:02:24adequately considering the existential existential dangers of such technologies
00:02:27technologies falling into the wrong wrong hands. The King addressed an
00:02:31an audience that included Tino Cuellar Cuellar from Anthropic, Sarah Friar
00:02:35Friar from OpenAI and Professor Chu
00:02:38Chu Lang from Shanghai University University in China. A Chinese presence
00:02:41presence in the room is significant, significant, too, with President
00:02:44President Trump framing AI as a race, race, America must win. The summit
00:02:48summit has been in the royal diary diary for six months, but the timing
00:02:51timing of it has become part of the
00:02:54the story. Last week, a former Anthropic Anthropic researcher said some of
00:02:57of the people building AI believe believe that it could kill us all
00:03:01all by the end of the decade. The
00:03:02The King has asked you here to give give reassurances that this technology
00:03:06technology won't harm humanity. Can
00:03:08Can you give those reassurances?
00:03:12reassurances? It is the responsibility responsibility of the AI companies
00:03:15companies ourselves to develop the the technology safely and to properly
00:03:19properly test it. As we move from
00:03:21from labs to product development. development. The companies have to
00:03:25to become much more rigorous in testing.
00:03:28testing. But other chief execs are
00:03:30are less optimistic. I think that
00:03:32that if we all create AI that are
00:03:35are able to act autonomously, that
00:03:37that can define their own objectives,
00:03:40objectives, that can earn money, money, that can own assets, that
00:03:43that could run businesses. We're
00:03:46We're essentially ceding a new silicon silicon species, which will no doubt
00:03:49doubt compete with us for resources resources no matter how much it cares
00:03:53cares about humanity and loves us.
00:03:56us. Warnings like that mean governments governments are under pressure to
00:03:58to act. The main thing I want to to assure everyone listening and
00:04:02and watching this is that the British British government has been focused focused on it. We have some of the
00:04:05the best capability in testing, understanding understanding risks and then mitigating
00:04:09mitigating them. We have to take take it seriously. That's exactly
00:04:11exactly what we're doing. This debate debate is not only about safety and
00:04:14and jobs. The data centres powering
00:04:17powering AI require enormous amounts amounts of electricity and water,
00:04:21water, placing the tech's environmental environmental issues at the heart
00:04:24heart of a cause. The King has championed
00:04:27championed for decades the King cannot cannot regulate artificial intelligence,
00:04:31intelligence, but what he can do do is use his convening power to
00:04:34to get these rivals around the table. table. The question is now will there
00:04:38there be anything concrete produced produced from these private discussions
00:04:41discussions here at Dumfries House?
00:04:44House? This technology appears to to be advancing far faster than diplomacy
00:04:48diplomacy is right now. But to gain gain public trust in AI, it will
00:04:52will need something more than conversation.
00:04:54conversation. Shiona McCallum BBC
00:04:56BBC News. Dumfries House. President
00:05:00President Trump has dismissed those those warnings about AI safety in
00:05:02in recent days. We asked Republican Republican Senator John Kennedy whether
00:05:06whether the President would sign sign his bill, which would call for
00:05:09for an AI kill switch. Well, if I
00:05:12I can pass this bill and it's a big
00:05:17big if because I'm sure someone will
00:05:18will object, someone who has been
00:05:21been put up by. By by probably the
00:05:25the AI people will object to this this bill. I don't know who it will
00:05:29will be yet, but I think the President President would sign this bill. I
00:05:32I think if I sat down and visited visited with him and explained to
00:05:36to him how government wouldn't be
00:05:37be in charge of the emergency off
00:05:42off button, but the companies would. would. But they would be required
00:05:45required to have one. I think he'd
00:05:48he'd be OK. Well, Kennedy's bill
00:05:50bill was blocked by his fellow Republican Republican Senator Rand Paul. Well,
00:05:54Well, let's talk some more now about about all of the issues involved
00:05:57involved on Capitol Hill. We're joined joined now by Democratic Congressman
00:06:00Congressman Don Beyer, co-chair of of the Congressional Artificial Intelligence
00:06:04Intelligence Caucus. Thank you, Congressman, Congressman, for joining us here
00:06:07here on BBC News. King Charles says
00:06:09says humanity is at risk of losing losing control of our destiny and
00:06:13and our souls, he says. Do you view
00:06:15view it like that? I do, but I take
00:06:18take my cue not from the King whom
00:06:20whom I respect, but rather from the the founders, the godfathers and
00:06:24and godmothers of AI people like like Demis Hassabis and Geoff Hinton.
00:06:28Hinton. They've been warning us for
00:06:30for 15 or more years that if we really
00:06:32really can build an artificial superintelligence, superintelligence, something that's that's smarter than we are, there's
00:06:36there's no reason to think that it's it's going to want what we want.
00:06:40want. Now you are one of a number number of colleagues from both parties
00:06:43parties who've written to the leadership leadership of both parties, urging
00:06:47urging immediate action on this. this. Why are we not seeing that?
00:06:50that? I'm not quite sure. Sadly, Sadly, we are in the least productive
00:06:54productive Congress in American history. history. There are a lot of meaningful
00:06:57meaningful bills Democratic and Republican
00:07:00Republican together to address AI
00:07:02AI to do a kill switch, to pause
00:07:05pause the frontier development, to to look to demand on safety testing
00:07:09testing of all these things. They They haven't come together yet. I
00:07:11I hope they do before the end of of the year. We absolutely need to
00:07:15to make it happen. In the first quarter
00:07:17quarter of 2027, when I hope Democrats Democrats will be in charge again.
00:07:20again. There is, as you say, bipartisan
00:07:23bipartisan support for a number of of issues around AI, but it would
00:07:26would seem that the person at the the top of the Republican Party, Party, President Donald Trump, is
00:07:30is not in favour of taking that step
00:07:34step towards any legislation at this this point. Do you see your colleagues
00:07:38colleagues there being able to exert exert any sort of upward pressure
00:07:41pressure on him? Well, I don't know
00:07:44know if my colleagues can, but I I think the American public certainly certainly can. And certainly in the
00:07:48the last couple of weeks we've seen seen I've seen a tipping point. And
00:07:51And the people I represent where where this has become a much more
00:07:54more important issue than the data
00:07:56data centres or the cost of gasoline. gasoline. You know, it's one thing
00:07:59thing to pay, you know, 5 or 5 and and a half dollars for a gallon of
00:08:03of gas. It's another thing to think think your children may not be able
00:08:05able to grow up. And I'm not a 100%
00:08:08100% doomer there are wonderful things things coming from AI. We just have
00:08:11have to make sure that we don't let let it get out of control. Because
00:08:15Because the President has said he he views this as sort of a race with
00:08:19with China for dominance, and it's
00:08:20it's a race that the US must win
00:08:23win at all costs. Yes, but I totally
00:08:26totally disagree with that. We you you know, if the race with China
00:08:29China is a race to see who loses loses control first, that's not a
00:08:32a race that we want to win. We also also recognise that China actually
00:08:36actually has many more checks and and balances on its AI than we do.
00:08:39do. You know, they're a dictatorship.
00:08:42dictatorship. They're a fragile tyranny. tyranny. So the Chinese Communist
00:08:45Communist Party can't afford to lose lose control. We're a democracy.
00:08:48democracy. So we're sort of a mess
00:08:50mess all the time. So the race with
00:08:53with China, by the way, what that that does suggest is that when President
00:08:56President Trump meets with Mr XI,
00:08:59XI, that AI needs to be one of their their very first topics. This is
00:09:03is something ultimately that requires, requires, you know, the AI equivalent
00:09:06equivalent of a Geneva Convention. Convention. And indeed some states
00:09:10states here in the US have enacted enacted their own legislation around
00:09:14around various parts of this. But
00:09:16But how do you get how do you translate translate that on a federal level?
00:09:20level? Because of course, while we
00:09:21we may see state borders, AI does
00:09:24does not. That is very true. And
00:09:27And but I think number one is we we can learn from what the states
00:09:29states are doing. New York and California California and Illinois and take
00:09:33take the best of their attempts and
00:09:35and put it into a federal framework.
00:09:38framework. I'm impressed with Demis
00:09:41Demis Hassabis call for essentially essentially a new organisation that
00:09:44that is funded by industry that has
00:09:47has regular independent checks, independent independent verification organisations,
00:09:51organisations, but nevertheless is is blessed and endorsed by the federal
00:09:54federal government so that we actually actually have enforcement power so
00:09:57so we can punish people that that
00:09:58that don't follow the law and the the regulations. And you mentioned
00:10:02mentioned there, Congressman, that that you're hopeful Democrats will
00:10:04will be in control of both houses houses in the next Congress if you
00:10:08you are in that position and you you are able to pass this legislation,
00:10:12legislation, it will still meet a a president who perhaps won't sign
00:10:14sign it. So what would happen then?
00:10:17then? Well, I think we would actually actually be in trouble, which is
00:10:20is why even though I think having having Democratic leadership assures
00:10:23assures me that we will actually actually get votes on the floor,
00:10:26floor, but we want to do it with with Republicans, this needs to be
00:10:29be a bipartisan effort. And I also
00:10:31also think that we take this to the
00:10:34the President with probably a number number of incidents happening between
00:10:37between now and the first quarter quarter of 2027. I think I hope and
00:10:41and I believe the President will will move in the right direction. direction. I don't think history
00:10:44history is going to give him any any choice. Given how serious all
00:10:46all of this is. As you're outlining outlining there, should Congress
00:10:49Congress be going on such a big recess
00:10:50recess now? Absolutely not. And we've
00:10:54we've been encouraging our leadership. leadership. Mike Johnson, the Republican
00:10:57Republican Speaker, to keep us in in town or to bring us back to town.
00:11:01town. No, it's shameful that we go go home for seven weeks when there
00:11:04there are major issues facing the the country. OK, Congressman, thank
00:11:07thank you very much for joining us us here on BBC News. That's Democratic
00:11:11Democratic Congressman Don Beyer.
00:11:13Beyer. Thank you. Now UN investigators
00:11:17investigators say there are reasonable reasonable grounds to believe that that the US carried out war crimes
00:11:20crimes in the early days of its war war on Iran, the UN's independent
00:11:24independent international fact finding finding mission on Iran found that
00:11:27that the US may have committed the
00:11:29the war crime of launching an indiscriminate indiscriminate attack, resulting
00:11:32resulting in the loss of life or
00:11:34or injury to civilians or damage
00:11:37damage to civilian objects. Now that that report submitted to the UN Human
00:11:40Human Rights Council pointed to two two deadly missile strikes in February
00:11:44February 1st on a primary school school in Minab and another that
00:11:47that hit a sports complex in Lamerd.
00:11:49Lamerd. It says at least 178 civilians
00:11:52civilians were killed in the two two attacks. The State Department
00:11:55Department is rejecting that new new UN report, saying the protection
00:11:58protection of civilians is of the the utmost importance to the US..
00:12:01US.. The US previously said it was was investigating that Minab strike
00:12:05strike and denies the raid on Lamerd.
00:12:07Lamerd. The UN experts also found
00:12:10found Iranian authorities committed committed crimes against humanity
00:12:13humanity during a crackdown on mass
00:12:14mass anti-government protests in
00:12:18in late 2025 into 2026. Well, let's let's talk about some of those findings.
00:12:21findings. I'm joined here in studio studio by our State Department correspondent
00:12:24correspondent Tom Bateman. Tom, lots lots of detail here. Let's talk about
00:12:27about the US first and what we've we've learned there. Well, as you
00:12:31you say, this was two incidents on on day one of the war, the strike
00:12:34strike on a school in Minab and also
00:12:36also on a sports complex in Lamerd
00:12:38Lamerd in Iran. Now the report goes goes through the evidence that on
00:12:42on the school strike that the US., US., it believes was using outdated
00:12:45outdated targeting. We've heard quite quite a lot about this, and it says
00:12:49says because of that, in the words words of the fact finders, this was
00:12:52was more than mere negligence. They They say that this was reckless.
00:12:55reckless. And because of that, the the Americans either knew or should
00:12:58should have known that this was no no longer a military complex, that
00:13:01that it was actually a school. And And therefore it says there's reasonable
00:13:05reasonable grounds to say that this this was a war crime committed by
00:13:07by the Americans. Similarly, with with Lamerd it calls this an indiscriminate
00:13:11indiscriminate attack and also reasonable reasonable grounds to say that this
00:13:14this is a war crime. So, you know,
00:13:16know, a very strong finding. The
00:13:18The State Department completely rejecting
00:13:20rejecting it. They say that the human
00:13:23human Rights Committee Commission Commission at the United Nations, Nations, which appoints this fact
00:13:27fact finding mission, is anti-American. anti-American. They say the report
00:13:30report is not credible. Does anything anything happen with those findings
00:13:32findings now? Well, I mean, the issue issue here is that all of the judicial
00:13:36judicial bodies that could take on on further investigations of course, course, disempower the Americans
00:13:40Americans say that they. They don't
00:13:43don't have jurisdiction over the the US for a start. So there's no
00:13:47no sort of chance of this being moved, moved, for example, to the International International Criminal Court. And
00:13:50And the Americans would say they they themselves investigate their
00:13:53their own military. Now, there weren't weren't findings, not only not just just about the US there were findings
00:13:57findings as well about what Iran Iran has been doing. Absolutely. Absolutely. And this was a very lengthy
00:14:01lengthy part of this fact finding finding report about late last year
00:14:04year into the new year. Remember Remember the huge uprising of protests
00:14:07protests in Iran? The report says says that the Iranians carried out
00:14:11out unlawful killings, enforced disappearances,
00:14:14disappearances, torture as they brutally brutally cracked down on these. They
00:14:16They say the official finding of of 3000 dead that the actual death
00:14:20death toll is likely to be far, far
00:14:22far higher and say this was a systematic systematic attack. And they go into
00:14:25into some very chilling details describing, describing, for example, security
00:14:29security forces armed with assault assault rifles, positioning themselves
00:14:32themselves on rooftops and elevated
00:14:34elevated positions and shooting into into crowds of civilians protesting,
00:14:38protesting, say that at least 220 220 children were killed, some of
00:14:41of those as young as two years old. old. OK. All right. Tom, thank you
00:14:44you very much for that. That's Tom
00:14:46Tom Bateman. There are US State Department
00:14:49Department correspondent. Now, let's let's stay with matters in the Middle
00:14:53Middle East, because Iran's delegation delegation will be allowed to enter
00:14:56enter the US next week for the United United Nations General Assembly.
00:14:59Assembly. That is according to some some confirmation from a spokesperson
00:15:02spokesperson for the US State Department. Department. However, two Palestinian
00:15:05Palestinian sources have told us us here at the BBC that the US is
00:15:09is denying an entry visa to the Palestinian Palestinian Authority. President
00:15:12President Mahmoud Abbas, for the the Assembly. That's the second year
00:15:15year in a row that that's happened.
00:15:17happened. The US had recently renewed
00:15:20renewed sanctions against Palestinian Palestinian officials, without naming naming Abbas, accusing them of failing
00:15:24failing to live up to peace process process commitments. The US accused
00:15:28accused the Palestinian Authority Authority of what it called glorifying
00:15:31glorifying terrorism and attempting
00:15:33attempting to internationalise the the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
00:15:37conflict. Palestinian officials reject reject those claims, calling the
00:15:39the visa sanctions an unjustified
00:15:42unjustified measure. Abbas will instead instead make a video address once
00:15:45once again to the annual UN gathering
00:15:47gathering in New York City. Now the the Canadian Prime Minister, Mark
00:15:51Mark Carney, says Canada and Europe Europe are stronger together. He
00:15:54He made those remarks in an address address to the European Parliament
00:15:58Parliament just one day after the the European Commission president, president, Ursula von der Leyen,
00:16:01Leyen, had announced plans to make make Canada what she called the first
00:16:05first associate member of the European European Union. Welcoming the invitation,
00:16:09invitation, Mr Carney said the EU
00:16:10EU and Canada would create a beacon
00:16:13beacon for other democracies. Europe.
00:16:17Europe. We are not fair weather allies.
00:16:20allies. We do not pursue a zero sum
00:16:24sum deals. Our commitment to the
00:16:27the rule of law and our unyielding
00:16:30unyielding defence of human dignity,
00:16:33dignity, individual freedom and democracy
00:16:34democracy share the same deep roots,
00:16:37roots, the same unwavering dedication.
00:16:41dedication. We hold common values
00:16:43values for which we have always fought
00:16:45fought and in whose defence we must
00:16:48must always remain vigilant. We believe
00:16:52believe that a strong economy is
00:16:54is not an end in itself, but a means
00:16:57means to a just society. European European Commission President von
00:17:01von der Leyen's proposal to deepen deepen the relationship with Canada
00:17:05Canada received a standing ovation ovation from European lawmakers on
00:17:08on Wednesday. But while the majority majority of EU governments support
00:17:11support closer ties with Canada,
00:17:13Canada, some are questioning the the practicalities of associate member
00:17:16member status. It could take years
00:17:18years for the bloc to implement such
00:17:21such a label. US President Donald Donald Trump on Wednesday suggested
00:17:24suggested that the EU allowing Canada Canada to become an associate member
00:17:27member could be a hostile act towards
00:17:29towards the US.. He said any bad bad intention would be met with very
00:17:32very heavy tariffs on European goods. goods. Prime Minister Carney said
00:17:36said on Thursday that no one other other than Canada could decide who
00:17:40who it would strike international international agreements with. Well,
00:17:43Well, I'm joined now by Matthew Levin. Levin. He is a former Canadian ambassador
00:17:46ambassador to Spain and Andorra and and adviser to the Institute for
00:17:50for Peace and Diplomacy. Thank you you very much for joining us here
00:17:54here on BBC News. Now, the idea of
00:17:56of an associate member of the European European Union doesn't currently
00:17:59currently exist in EU legislation. legislation. It would have to be
00:18:02be essentially invented for Canada
00:18:04Canada to take part. But is that that an indication of the value of
00:18:08of the relationship that the EU is
00:18:10is proposing to go to those lengths? lengths? Yes, I think that's exactly
00:18:13exactly right. I think the importance
00:18:15importance of the suggestion of associate
00:18:18associate member status, as you point point out, it has no legal standing.
00:18:21standing. And what it might mean
00:18:23mean in concrete terms is, is largely
00:18:26largely unclear. But I think it's
00:18:29it's important is as a symbol, as
00:18:31as a statement of intent, as a signal.
00:18:34signal. And those things, of course course are very important in international
00:18:37international relations. But the
00:18:40the hard work of deepening and strengthening
00:18:43strengthening Canada's relations
00:18:45relations with European Union, of
00:18:48of course, would will require making
00:18:51making progress in, in substantive substantive concrete areas of co-operation.
00:18:55co-operation. So I think the suggestion suggestion of a associate member
00:18:58member status, it does send an important
00:19:01important political signal. I note note that the Canadian side is using
00:19:04using different language alliance
00:19:06alliance for the future and has kind
00:19:09kind of not not seemed at least to to me enthusiastic about this notion
00:19:13notion of a kind of formalisation formalisation through something like
00:19:16like associate member status. But But substantively, I think the positions
00:19:19positions of the two sides are quite
00:19:20quite are quite in harmony. They're
00:19:24They're both there's a genuine interest interest in a political commitment
00:19:27commitment to strengthen the relationship. relationship. Indeed, Mr Carney acknowledged
00:19:30acknowledged it but didn't sort of of formally accept the suggestion,
00:19:33suggestion, did he? But it has inflamed inflamed President Donald Trump.
00:19:36Trump. Is there a way at this point
00:19:38point at all to improve that relationship relationship between Prime Minister
00:19:42Minister Carney and Donald Trump? Trump? Such a key one next door neighbours, neighbours, of course, and linked
00:19:45linked in so many ways. Yes. Well,
00:19:49Well, of course for Canada, the relationship
00:19:52relationship with the United States States is indispensable in geography
00:19:55geography determines it. But many many other things have contributed
00:19:58contributed to it. It's, I think,
00:20:03think, hazardous to say about what what Prime Minister Carney might
00:20:05might or might not be able to achieve
00:20:07achieve with President Trump. I mean,
00:20:09mean, I think Mr Carney, like all
00:20:12all leaders, struggles with kind kind of erratic and unpredictable
00:20:15unpredictable nature. Mr Trump's
00:20:18Trump's behaviour, his statements statements he can swing fairly quickly
00:20:22quickly and fairly dramatically between between quite hostile remarks. And
00:20:25And there's been no shortage of those
00:20:29those in his comments about Canada,
00:20:31Canada, but also expressions of warmth warmth and appreciation for Mr Carney,
00:20:35Carney, of which he's also had quite
00:20:36quite a few. So I don't think one
00:20:39one can exclude a kind of recovery
00:20:44recovery or some degree of stabilisation
00:20:46stabilisation or at least improvement improvement in the personal relationship relationship between Prime Minister
00:20:50Minister Carney and President Trump.
00:20:54Trump. But it's something I think think given the given the pattern
00:20:57pattern that's taking place over over the last two years, I think
00:20:59think it's something that Canada Canada feels it can't rely on and
00:21:03and has to pursue other options without
00:21:07without forgoing its interest in in achieving that. And we've seen,
00:21:11seen, of course, beyond the leaders leaders relationship, a lot of Canadians
00:21:14Canadians themselves taking matters matters into their own hands, not
00:21:16not travelling to the US for their
00:21:19their holidays, not buying US products.
00:21:21products. Do you think that that
00:21:24that sort of customer level relationship relationship can be reversed in the
00:21:28the future? I do think it can. I
00:21:31I mean, the longer this state of
00:21:35of sort of hostility and really egregious
00:21:39egregious commentary by President President Trump towards Canada, the
00:21:42the longer that goes on the longer
00:21:45longer it will take to go back to
00:21:47to a status quo ante. Having said
00:21:51said that, beyond the President and
00:21:52and perhaps several members of his
00:21:55his administration in the broad scope scope of relations between Canada Canada and the United States, whether
00:21:59whether people to people relations relations but also political relations
00:22:03relations between Canadian premiers
00:22:06premiers and their counterparts. counterparts. Counterpart governors
00:22:08governors in US states, but at all
00:22:10all political levels. Actually that
00:22:13that relationship has remained as
00:22:16as it has been friendly and supportive. supportive. OK. All right. Well,
00:22:19Well, we'll see what happens next. next. Whether Canada is leaning towards
00:22:23towards the EU or the US. Matthew Matthew Levin, former ambassador
00:22:26ambassador Canadian to Spain and and Andorra, thank you for joining joining us here on BBC News. Thank
00:22:30Thank you for having me. Now, President President Trump says the US is working
00:22:33working to set up a new military military base in Poland, saying it
00:22:37it would be a historic step for what what he called our great US Polish
00:22:40Polish alliance. Despite concerns concerns in Europe, though, that
00:22:43that an ongoing US review could drastically
00:22:45drastically reduce troop levels there.
00:22:48there. This was the scene in Poland
00:22:50Poland earlier on Thursday. Air raid raid sirens after a Russian attack
00:22:54attack near its border with Ukraine. Ukraine. Two Polish airports temporarily
00:22:58temporarily closed. Now no Russian Russian aircraft crossed the border,
00:23:00border, but Poland's Prime Minister Minister warned that Russia would
00:23:03would likely step up its aggression
00:23:05aggression in the coming months against against Poland and other nations
00:23:09nations supporting Ukraine. Nato Nato Secretary General said Russia's Russia's drone strikes near Poland
00:23:13Poland were evidence of Russia's Russia's desperation. Mark Rutte
00:23:16Rutte was in Britain meeting the the Prime Minister and the Defence
00:23:19Defence Secretary there for the first first time. Political editor Chris
00:23:22Chris Mason reports. Eastern Poland
00:23:27Poland this morning, sirens blaring
00:23:29blaring Russia's war in Ukraine sounds
00:23:32sounds near drone strikes over the
00:23:34the border far too close for comfort.
00:23:37comfort. Is this yet another example example of a dangerous escalation
00:23:40escalation in this war? It's clearly
00:23:42clearly an example of increasingly
00:23:45increasingly reckless behaviour by by Russia and its president, but
00:23:49but also evidence of him being increasingly
00:23:52increasingly desperate. Should Nato Nato intercept Russian drones that
00:23:55that are over Ukrainian territory territory if they are approaching
00:23:58approaching a Nato border. There There is a limit to what I can go
00:24:02go into in a public interview, but but I can assure you we do everything
00:24:05everything to make sure that Nato Nato stays safe. Nato territory stay
00:24:09stay safe, that we can defend every every inch of that's happening again.
00:24:12again. I can never get into those those operational details. I was
00:24:16was told afterwards drones were not
00:24:18not at least yet intercepted by Nato
00:24:22Nato while still over Ukraine. How How worried are you? How worried
00:24:25worried should we all be that Russia
00:24:27Russia will attack or invade a Nato
00:24:30Nato country in the coming years? years? If you're willing to sacrifice
00:24:34sacrifice 1.2 million of your own own people in this crazy, unprovoked
00:24:37unprovoked fight, let's not be naive naive about what Putin could do,
00:24:41do, but we are stronger. I mean, mean, in. Other words. It could happen. happen. It could happen in the coming
00:24:45coming years. No, I don't think so. so. Because we are strong. So strong
00:24:48strong that he will not try. But But we have to make sure of is that
00:24:51that we are strong in two, three, three, five years from now. You've
00:24:54You've been here meeting the Prime Prime Minister, the Defence Secretary,
00:24:58Secretary, the Foreign Secretary, Secretary, as you all know, the Chancellor, Chancellor, John Healey, the former
00:25:02former Defence Secretary, resigned resigned because he wasn't certain.
00:25:04certain. No, he didn't think the the previous government would get
00:25:07get to 3% of national income on defence
00:25:11defence by 2030 and said that was was essential. The new government
00:25:13government hasn't yet explicitly explicitly committed to that. In
00:25:16In the conversations you've just just come from, are you confident confident they're going to manage
00:25:20manage that? I'm totally confident confident about what this government
00:25:23government wants to do. That is to
00:25:24to reach the 3.5 and 2035. Also understanding understanding that cannot be that
00:25:28that you stick to 2.6, 2.7 now and
00:25:31and then in one go in 2034, you would
00:25:34would go to 3.5. So you've long been been a sceptic to be a. Credible
00:25:37Credible path. Yeah. Sounds like like they've not managed to be specific
00:25:40specific and reassure you that that
00:25:42that 3% target by 2030 is actually actually going to be met. I'm absolutely
00:25:46absolutely confident that when it it comes to the 3.5 they are there.
00:25:49there. I'm absolutely confident that that when it comes to the yearly
00:25:52yearly increments, they totally take take it and accept it that they have
00:25:55have to be there. But exactly the the pathway will be we will see next
00:25:58next year in the spending review. review. Secretary General, thank
00:25:59thank you. Thank you very much. And
00:26:03And that is it for World News America America for today.
00:27:35mid 40s. Take care.
00:29:40tech. Is it time to take the threat threat as a national security priority?
00:29:42priority? That's this week on Talking
00:29:44Talking Business here on BBC News.
00:29:52News. MUSIC
00:30:05MUSIC
00:30:20I lost my sight completely when I
00:30:25I was eight years old. Clive, this this is a moment in the history of
00:30:29of the United States. My name is is Gary O'Donoghue and I'm the chief
00:30:32chief North America correspondent correspondent for the BBC. When I
00:30:34I started out in journalism, it was was still legal to discriminate against
00:30:38against disabled people. I was told told you can't be a reporter if you're
00:30:42you're blind. People really hadn't hadn't done what I was trying to
00:30:44to do before me. As you can see,
00:30:46see, we're on the ground behind our
00:30:49our car, which is not ideal, but but that's the shelter we have at
00:30:51at the moment. During the Trump assassination assassination attempt, I think my
00:30:55my blindness was an interesting factor factor because one of the central
00:30:58central interviews we got was with