Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:01you are. Business on BBC News. Make
00:00:01Make the connection. MUSIC
00:00:12MUSIC With With terrorism entrenched and kidnapping
00:00:14kidnapping and banditry on the rise, rise, who can Nigerians trust to
00:00:18to keep their country safe and as as elections approach, how can they
00:00:21they separate the truth from the
00:00:23the lies? Now on BBC News World questions.
00:00:28questions. How come Nigeria is Africa's Africa's biggest oil producer yet?
00:00:31yet? There are power cuts every day.
00:00:34day. How come the economy is doing doing well with growth rising yet
00:00:37yet so many are poor and so few can
00:00:40can enjoy the good things in life?
00:00:43life? How come millions have been been spent making schools safe? Yet
00:00:46Yet last year more students were were kidnapped by bandits than ever
00:00:50ever before. Who to believe in a
00:00:53a world of rumour, conspiracy, claim
00:00:56claim and counter-claim from Lagos.
00:00:58Lagos. This is world questions Nigeria
00:01:00Nigeria truth, trust and fake news.
00:01:12news. Trust is at the heart of successful
00:01:16successful countries. Trust in the
00:01:18the police. Trust in the civil service.
00:01:21service. Trust in the political class. class. But trust is in short supply
00:01:24supply here in Nigeria as this 250
00:01:28250 million strong West African country
00:01:30country heads towards national elections. elections. We have a lively audience
00:01:33audience here at the University of of Lagos ready to put their questions
00:01:37questions to our panel to debate.
00:01:39debate. Let me introduce them. Aisha
00:01:41Aisha Yesufu is a human rights activist
00:01:44activist and the co-founder of the
00:01:46the BringBackOurGirls movement. Tolu Tolu Ogunlesi is a writer and a former
00:01:50former special assistant to the President
00:01:52President on digital and new media.
00:01:54media. Nabilah Usman is the presenter presenter of Now Breakfast and the
00:01:58the general manager of Radio now
00:02:01now 95.3 FM. Cheta is a political
00:02:04political risk analyst and lead partner
00:02:06partner of SBM intelligence and Tonye
00:02:09Tonye Cole is the co-founder of the
00:02:11the Multinational Energy and infrastructure infrastructure conglomerate the Sahara
00:02:15Sahara Group and former candidate candidate for Governor of Rivers
00:02:17Rivers State. Please welcome them
00:02:20them all. Let us go straight to our
00:02:25our first question, and it comes
00:02:28comes from Oluwatobi Adediran. OK.
00:02:30OK. Thank you so much. So given President
00:02:34President Tinubu's 2022 campaign
00:02:35campaign in Delta where he said Nigerians Nigerians cannot eat statistics,
00:02:39statistics, why should the public public trust this recent flood of
00:02:43of data on his X platform is his his reliable. Given the present conditions
00:02:46conditions that we can see in Nigeria? Nigeria? Thank you very much indeed.
00:02:50indeed. Why should the public trust trust the flood of economic data?
00:02:53data? The President's administration administration is now publishing
00:02:55publishing on X when every day living living conditions continue to worsen.
00:02:59worsen. A little bit of context growth
00:03:01growth is rising in Nigeria quite
00:03:05quite sharply, but so are poverty poverty levels. Inflation has fallen,
00:03:09fallen, but petrol now that it's it's no longer being subsidised is
00:03:11is much, much more expensive than
00:03:13than it was. And imports are much
00:03:16much more expensive because the support
00:03:19support of the currency has disappeared. disappeared. Can I start with Tonye
00:03:22Tonye Cole businessman? Thank you
00:03:23you very much. Thank you for the
00:03:26the thank you for the question. At At a particular level, when it comes
00:03:30comes to the macro level, there has
00:03:32has actually been progress. One of
00:03:34of the things that we have seen that that is difficult is moving that
00:03:38that progress at macro level to the
00:03:40the micro level. And so at the bottom
00:03:42bottom of the pyramid, the masses
00:03:44masses are feeling the pain of the the changes that have been executed
00:03:48executed at the top. So we're dealing dealing with two different things.
00:03:50things. The first aspect of it have
00:03:53have had reforms been done. The answer
00:03:55answer is yes. Are those reforms
00:03:57reforms making a change at the top?
00:03:59top? Again, the answer is yes. Is
00:04:02Is that reform moving fast enough enough to be felt at the bottom?
00:04:05bottom? The answer is no. So that
00:04:08that question about believing the
00:04:11the statistics, it doesn't work because
00:04:13because the pain is is there as you
00:04:16you say at the bottom. Even if the the numbers are right at the top.
00:04:19top. Absolutely. So what you see, see, most people want to feel the
00:04:23the difference. And so when you say say things are moving but moving
00:04:26moving in a particular direction, direction, but what you are feeling feeling is that you are moving in
00:04:30in the opposite direction from what what they say. Naturally you will will think that you must disbelieve
00:04:34disbelieve it. But does that mean mean that that's not the truth? The
00:04:37The answer is that the truth is that that we are moving at a macro level
00:04:41level in the right direction, but but the pain is real at the bottom.
00:04:45bottom. Isa said. The public trust
00:04:47trust the numbers when their everyday
00:04:50everyday experience is so different. different. Well, I don't think we
00:04:53we should be talking about numbers numbers when people are suffering, suffering, but propaganda cannot
00:04:57cannot take away the rumbling of of hunger, you know, in people. And
00:05:01And we were talking about the suffering, suffering, the fact that there are
00:05:04are some, you know, things that are are being done but that the masses
00:05:07masses are suffering, they are suffering. suffering. Why then are the people
00:05:10people at the top not suffering? suffering? Why does it have to be
00:05:13be the people at the bottom who are are feeling the brunt of all the
00:05:16the suffering that is going on? And And if you look at the issue of where
00:05:19where we say there are reforms but but we do not see those who are supposed
00:05:23supposed to be in authority who are are putting out these reforms. You
00:05:25You do not see their lifestyle changing. changing. They are not reforming. reforming. They are not tightening
00:05:29tightening their belts. They are are squandering the money up and
00:05:31and down. You are seeing bogus projects projects that we shouldn't be seeing. seeing. For example, the coastal
00:05:35coastal road is being built but all all the inner roads, you know, literally
00:05:38literally people are stuck in traffic traffic for like three, four, five
00:05:41five days. People's businesses are are collapsing. And then you begin
00:05:44begin to see places where monies monies are being spent anyhow, 20
00:05:4820 something billion used to renovate renovate the vice president's house
00:05:51house that he doesn't even live in. in. Now you're seeing, you know,
00:05:54know, such bogus elephant projects
00:05:58projects everywhere and you're wondering wondering why is it that the people people have to feel it? And why is
00:06:01is it that you're being told about
00:06:04about numbers when the lives of people people is getting worse by the day?
00:06:07day? Thank you very much. Tolu Ogunlesi
00:06:10Ogunlesi writer, former adviser to
00:06:12to a former president. The question
00:06:14question about the mismatch between between those big numbers, the numbers numbers on growth, the numbers on
00:06:18on inflation and the experience that that people have. As somebody who
00:06:21who has worked in. Government communications, communications, I think it's important
00:06:24important that the statistics must must always be backed by stories,
00:06:27stories, because if you think about
00:06:29about it, I mean, yes, people may may not be happy with, say, the coastal
00:06:33coastal the example you gave. But
00:06:35But for each kilometre of the coastal coastal road that is built, it's
00:06:39it's money that goes into the hands
00:06:42hands of a labourers, truck drivers,
00:06:45drivers, you know, people who sell sell sand, who sell cement, who sell.
00:06:49sell. Now, I think government has has a duty to tell the stories, to
00:06:53to make that connection. So you don't don't stop at the statistics. You
00:06:56You don't stop at saying we are building building a coastal road or we have
00:07:00have spent 1 billion or 2 billion. billion. You have to go down, drill
00:07:03drill down to say this 1 billion billion that has gone into this thing.
00:07:06thing. This is how it's affecting affecting the lives of people, you
00:07:10you know, and we have a former minister minister who used to do a very good
00:07:13good job actually, of, of explaining explaining that even down to the
00:07:17the fact that when you are building building something, you have people
00:07:20people who are selling food, who who gather to sell food to the construction
00:07:24construction workers. So I think think that there's a failure of storytelling. storytelling. And I think it's part
00:07:28part of what contributes to the despair
00:07:29despair that Nigerians feel as a a people. Thank you very much. Can
00:07:33Can I go back to our questioner? questioner? You heard what Tony said
00:07:35said there. You know, you see the the big numbers take a long time
00:07:39time to trickle down to the millions millions and millions of people affected.
00:07:43affected. Do you understand it? Do Do you buy it? I don't buy it. I'm
00:07:47I'm sorry to say, but I don't buy
00:07:49buy it. Don't be sorry. I'm I'm a
00:07:52a Nigerian and I live in Nigeria. Nigeria. I stay in Nigeria. I eat
00:07:54eat the things Nigeria eat, but I I can't see the change. If you are
00:07:58are if you are claiming to work for for us, I should see the change in
00:08:01in my life. I don't want to see the the numbers on X. I don't want to
00:08:05to see ehm you telling me we brought brought it from 250 to 200 and you're
00:08:09you're telling me those things are are stories? Can I see that? The The things that I'm able to afford
00:08:12afford are increasing, my purchasing purchasing power is increasing. If If I don't see all those things,
00:08:16things, then it doesn't matter to to me. Your statistic is dominating dominating to me. Thank you very
00:08:20very much. Thank you. I appreciate appreciate your thoughts. Our next
00:08:23next question is going to be read
00:08:25read by a proxy, not the person who who put the question in. My name
00:08:29name is Kelly. Thank you very much. much. Good evening everyone. Good
00:08:33Good evening panellists. My question
00:08:34question is in this era of social social media monetisation, everybody
00:08:38everybody wants to be a content creator. creator. Everybody wants to pass
00:08:41pass information whether it is correct
00:08:43correct or not correct. And we are
00:08:45are tending towards the general elections.
00:08:48elections. How can Nigeria hold influential
00:08:50influential political content creators
00:08:53creators accountable ahead of 27 27 elections without compromising compromising freedom of expression?
00:08:56expression? OK. Thank you very much much indeed. That question how can
00:09:00can Nigeria hold influential political
00:09:02political content creators accountable
00:09:05accountable ahead of the 2027 elections elections without compromising freedom
00:09:08freedom of expression? Broadcaster Broadcaster Nabilah Usman. I mean,
00:09:12mean, interesting question. I would would say it's a question that the
00:09:16the rest of the world is also asking asking because you've got influencers
00:09:19influencers across the world. For For me, I work on radio and so I
00:09:22I know that if I put out wrong information,
00:09:25information, the regulator is going going to probably slap me with a
00:09:28a fine. There's a consequence somewhere. somewhere. And I do think that for
00:09:32for those of us who consume that
00:09:35that media on online, right? The The question is what are we collectively
00:09:38collectively agreeing? Is the fine.
00:09:40fine. And so if you want to talk talk about regulating the online
00:09:44online space, and I'm careful because because it is a tricky conversation,
00:09:47conversation, but it's a conversation conversation worth having nonetheless.
00:09:50nonetheless. The question is the the information they're putting out,
00:09:53out, is it harming people in real real time in the real world? And
00:09:56And if the answer is yes, then there there should certainly be consequences
00:10:00consequences for that. Thank you
00:10:01you very much. Your organisation,
00:10:05organisation, SBM intelligence has
00:10:07has done a lot of work on social
00:10:10social media, on the influence of of misinformation. Disinformation.
00:10:13Disinformation. Is there a way of
00:10:15of holding content creators, political political content creators, any kind
00:10:18kind of content creators accountable
00:10:21accountable for what they do? Unfortunately,
00:10:23Unfortunately, I would say I'm very very negative on that. I think that
00:10:27that and this is not just in Nigeria Nigeria problem, it's actually a
00:10:30a global problem where in a we're
00:10:32we're in a period of flux where trust
00:10:34trust in the mainstream media has has been broken. The BBC, for example,
00:10:38example, is experiencing that with
00:10:40with the things like Gaza in Nigeria,
00:10:43Nigeria, as in so many other countries, countries, we have become a lot more
00:10:47more tribal many times. When you you say tribal to in Nigeria and and he thinks of ethnicity, it's
00:10:50it's not just ethnicity. People think think in terms of. So for example,
00:10:54example, let's assume that you're you're an Arsenal fan. Somebody is
00:10:56is a man you fan you are. You are are likely to listen to a man you
00:11:00you fan more so that has become a
00:11:02a problem. And we have a society society that does not verify. We
00:11:05We published a survey about six weeks
00:11:08weeks ago now on the threat of AI AI in the elections. And one thing
00:11:11thing that struck me when we were were doing the analysis of the data, data, because we went we went around
00:11:15around the country to ask people people questions. When we were analysing
00:11:17analysing the data, we found that
00:11:20that only 23% of people actually actually verified the information
00:11:23information that they get from social
00:11:24social media. And this is very critical
00:11:28critical because most people now now get their information. 56% of
00:11:32of respondents get their information information from social media, not
00:11:35not from regulated media. So we are
00:11:37are in an inflection point. Something Something has broken. It's a global
00:11:41global problem. Nigeria is not going going to fix it. And as a result
00:11:44result of that, the 2027 elections
00:11:46elections are going to see some nastiness
00:11:49nastiness as a result of the rise
00:11:51rise of AI and its use on social
00:11:53social media. We had a boy in, in
00:11:56in Benin who was arrested fairly fairly recently because he cloned cloned the President's voice. I can
00:12:00can almost guarantee that people people are going to clone the voices
00:12:02voices of various candidates in the the coming elections, and people
00:12:05people will believe that. Thank you
00:12:07you very much indeed. Tolu Ogunlesi
00:12:10Ogunlesi is it possible is it desirable
00:12:13desirable to hold political content
00:12:15content creators accountable or does does that impinge very heavily on
00:12:19on their freedom to put out political political messaging? Well, I think
00:12:22think it depends on how you do it.
00:12:25it. So fact checking by media, you
00:12:28you know, there are a lot of political
00:12:31political shows in Nigeria, you know,
00:12:33know, traditional media, social media,
00:12:36media, podcasts, TV shows, radio radio shows. And I think one thing thing that we haven't seen enough
00:12:40enough of is instant fact checking. checking. So whether it's panels,
00:12:43panels, whether it's podcasts, whether whether it's TV shows, the popular
00:12:46popular morning shows or evening
00:12:47evening shows, I think that journalists
00:12:50journalists and gatekeepers, to use use that word, must do instant and
00:12:53and immediate fact checking. And And to do that, you need to have have access to the facts yourself.
00:12:57yourself. You need to have a team. team. You need to have access to,
00:13:01to, you know, to the information information and to debunk it on the
00:13:05the spot instead of, you know, having having to come back later or allow
00:13:08allow it to, to, to get into the
00:13:12the wider space. OK. Thank you very very much. I want to come to the
00:13:15the audience and I want to hear from
00:13:18from you about holding politicians
00:13:21politicians accountable for what what they say and whether that is
00:13:23is a good thing or a bad thing on on social media, given freedom of
00:13:27of expression. But you wanted to to make a point. First of. All, I I want to build on something that
00:13:30that Tolu said. Basically we have have a sort of power asymmetry in
00:13:34in terms of whether it is a celebrity
00:13:38celebrity or a politician. Many people people in Nigeria don't have access access to the information and even
00:13:41even when they have access to the the information, they are too respectful
00:13:45respectful in quotes to ask or to
00:13:48to challenge somebody. And that's that's something that is a problem.
00:13:51problem. So a lot of people just just basically flow and say whatever
00:13:55whatever they like without being being challenged. I said, anyone anyone who wants it on the panel
00:13:58panel who wants to make a point could
00:14:02could they? Aisha. OK, thank you you very much. I just wanted to make
00:14:06make a connection. If government government is really working, government government doesn't have to tell its
00:14:10its own stories. The people we tell
00:14:12tell the stories on behalf of government. government. If you look at when I
00:14:16I talked about the coastal road. road. Yeah. If the Interstate road
00:14:19road are working and very smoothly,
00:14:21smoothly, nobody will listen to the the political actors or whatever.
00:14:25whatever. They will listen to the the people who are travelling on
00:14:27on those roads with their cameras cameras and say to you, hey, I travelled
00:14:31travelled from Awaji to Benin and and the road was very good and all
00:14:34all of that. So sometimes it's about about just doing the thing, not even
00:14:37even not necessarily about telling telling the stories, but actually actually doing the things. And if
00:14:41if you also look at it when you when when I talk about that coastal road,
00:14:44road, as much as you are saying that that when the monies are being used,
00:14:47used, yes, people are going to benefit benefit from it. Why don't we put
00:14:50put it in places where people are are using the roads that's already
00:14:54already existing that are bad, rather
00:14:56rather than creating new ones with with overbloated contracts? That
00:14:59That doesn't do any good for anybody. anybody. OK, OK, I want to come to
00:15:02to the audience, if I could on this this issue of accountability of politicians.
00:15:06politicians. I'm going to start with with the gentleman right in the front front here. Thank you. Very much.
00:15:09much. My name is Oladipo. With politicians politicians only them accountable
00:15:13accountable with what they say. It's It's usually not about what they
00:15:16they say but what happens after the the moment you say a word you make
00:15:20make a sweeping statement. People
00:15:24People because of the nature of the the polity of Nigeria can easily
00:15:27easily follow. For example, in the the Ocean state elections, the senator
00:15:31senator for Elisha came out, made
00:15:32made the statement and it became became something really serious.
00:15:36serious. Some people believed what what he said and some people did did not. But thank God that security
00:15:40security agencies were able to call call that to order. But thank you
00:15:43you very much. I appreciate it. Microphone Microphone to the gentleman over
00:15:47over here, sir. So my comment is
00:15:50is that I feel like a lot of the
00:15:53the conversations around regulating regulating conversations, especially
00:15:57especially political conversations conversations happening in the cyber
00:16:00cyber space, it's not coming from
00:16:01from a place of good faith. And until
00:16:04until the people who are high up up there approach that conversation
00:16:08conversation from a place of good good faith, for instance, actually
00:16:11actually coming to the table with, with, you know, some good intention
00:16:15intention to fix the Cyber Crime Crime Act of 2015. Mr Ogunlesi here
00:16:18here famously worked for a former
00:16:21former president who silenced millions millions of Nigerians by banning
00:16:24banning Twitter because he didn't didn't like what Twitter did to his
00:16:27his tweet. And at the time they said, said, oh, well, the silence, they
00:16:30they deleted my tweets. But you didn't didn't delete the tweet of bad faith
00:16:33faith actors. And I'm like, your
00:16:36your standard for freedom of speech speech cannot be compared to that
00:16:39that of people who are bad faith faith actors. OK. Thank you very
00:16:43very much. And lady here, we'll just just get a microphone to you. My
00:16:47My name is Victoria. So I would like
00:16:49like to speak to the accountability accountability problem towards the
00:16:52the politician and not the content content creator right now. Like Aisha
00:16:56Aisha Yesufu earlier said that if
00:16:58if things work we would not would
00:17:01would hardly have the bad faith content content creators. Politicians are
00:17:05are highly revered people in Nigeria.
00:17:06Nigeria. We even see them as celebrities.
00:17:10celebrities. We respect them at that. that. So every word out of their
00:17:13their mouth is taken as facts, as
00:17:16as truth. So in the state election
00:17:19election someone said, if I see any any of you who vote for a certain
00:17:23certain political party or a different different political party than this,
00:17:26this, you are dead. What do you expect
00:17:29expect people to do? I'm coming to to you as the authority in this place,
00:17:32place, and I'm telling you, if you
00:17:33you do otherwise. So if that continues,
00:17:37continues, why would I, a content content creator that will get paid
00:17:39paid whether I post or not say the
00:17:43the truth when the other person does does not do that. So yeah. Thank
00:17:46Thank you very much indeed. Thank Thank you very much. You want to to take it on you when you wanted
00:17:49wanted to make a point. OK. Thank Thank you very much. I look at the
00:17:53the panel here and I think I'm the
00:17:54the only one who has been in active
00:17:57active politics and I have been a a victim of both sides of the equation.
00:18:01equation. What politicians say and
00:18:04and what we receive. One of the things
00:18:06things I have found to be true is
00:18:09is that people believe political
00:18:12political office holders, because because of the office they hold,
00:18:15hold, not because of the person that
00:18:17that they are. I have run elections
00:18:20elections against people who, under under normal circumstance you would
00:18:23would not believe a word they say, say, but because they are saying
00:18:27saying it from a specific office. office. Regardless of what I say,
00:18:30say, I haven't held a political office
00:18:32office yet. So coming from a business
00:18:35business perspective into politics politics and running on a political
00:18:39political office platform is not
00:18:40not the same as the one who is speaking
00:18:43speaking from an office that is either
00:18:45either a governor or a senator and
00:18:48and all of that. And this is where
00:18:51where you as the public in fact checking
00:18:55checking becomes critical. And that's that's to the point that Kelechi
00:18:58Kelechi made here. If the public
00:19:01public does not check what the politician
00:19:03politician has said, not by virtue
00:19:06virtue of his office or her office, office, but by who they are and what
00:19:09what they are saying, we will continue continue having this. And so what
00:19:12what we have is a freedom of impunity,
00:19:15impunity, freedom of speech, freedom freedom to say whatever you like
00:19:19like because you know nobody is going going to check it. Thank you very
00:19:22very much. I'm going to go to our our last question, if I may. It comes
00:19:25comes from Samuel Samuel M. So good
00:19:28good evening. So basically the question question is why does Africa still
00:19:31still struggle to have its own narrative narrative dominates global media media despite having a fast growing
00:19:35growing population? Thank you very very much. Why does Africa still
00:19:39still struggle to have its own narrative
00:19:41narrative dominate global media despite despite having a fast growing population?
00:19:44population? I mean, as well as being
00:19:46being such a significant part of
00:19:49of the world, Tonye Cole it's a simple
00:19:51simple question. It is a simple question.
00:19:53question. I think one of the things things that is happening now is that
00:19:57that we are actually telling our our own stories. So it's changing
00:20:01changing and it's changing for the
00:20:03the better. Your music industry is
00:20:05is telling its story and that story story is going all over the world
00:20:09world in places that you would not not believe. Your movie industry
00:20:13industry is telling its story. I I have been to places that doors
00:20:17doors have been opened up to me just
00:20:20just because they identified that that I was a Nigerian where normally
00:20:23normally in Nigerian passport would would not allow you to enter. So
00:20:26So the truth is that we are now telling telling our own story. We have become
00:20:30become much more aware of the power
00:20:33power of narrative and that is going going can we do more? Absolutely.
00:20:36Absolutely. Are you doing more? I I believe that you are doing more. more. That question for you to ask
00:20:40ask the question yourself. It means means that you want to tell your
00:20:44your story. So please feel free to to tell your story from a business
00:20:47business perspective. I have opened opened offices in many countries
00:20:51countries as a Nigerian speaking
00:20:53speaking to the Nigerian narrative
00:20:56narrative of being very, very aggressive, aggressive, not being, not taking
00:20:59taking no for an answer, pushing
00:21:02pushing what we as Nigerians are are good at. We don't give up. We
00:21:06We don't stop. And so please do not not give up this generation of Nigerians
00:21:09Nigerians that I see in front of
00:21:11of me carry the answer to the narrative narrative that you are talking about.
00:21:14about. Do not allow anyone to deceive deceive you. Tell your story. We
00:21:17We are telling that story and you you have platforms to tell the story.
00:21:19story. Thank you very much indeed.
00:21:23indeed. This question about the narrative
00:21:25narrative and grasping the narrative. narrative. So the first thing is
00:21:28is we need to define what our narrative
00:21:31narrative is. So far as Mr Cole has has said, yes, we are telling our
00:21:34our stories, but we are still telling telling the scattershot fashion.
00:21:37fashion. It's not very it's not defined defined and we can't define what
00:21:41what the narrative we want to tell tell is until we define who we are.
00:21:44are. And we have to go back to first
00:21:46first principles. So this whole panel panel is about trust. But how many
00:21:50many of us understand that the low low trust society that we've built
00:21:53built has been something that has has been going on for 500 years?
00:21:56years? We it's we've been we've been been low trust for a very long time.
00:21:59time. And Nigeria is not I never never described Nigeria as a nation.
00:22:03nation. Nigeria is a country of many many nations. Our leaders need to
00:22:06to come together in good faith and
00:22:10and define what is Nigeria. Once Once we have that answer, what is
00:22:14is Nigeria? Then we can tell a narrative.
00:22:16narrative. One of the problems of of Nigeria is Nigeria belongs to
00:22:19to everybody and belongs to nobody, nobody, which is why you can see
00:22:22see people breaking bridges or stealing
00:22:24stealing boats from bridges. Yeah. Yeah. So until that narrative changes,
00:22:28changes, we will have people will will have outliers. Burna boy will
00:22:31will sing at the World Cup finals. finals. That will happen. People
00:22:34People will be like, oh wow, Nigeria.
00:22:35Nigeria. But then it will be short short bursts and then it will go
00:22:39go down again. So we need to define
00:22:42define who we are. Then we can define define what we are and then we can
00:22:46can begin to tell our stories in in a co-ordinated fashion. Thank
00:22:48Thank you. Tolu Ogunlesi. It goes
00:22:52goes back to that economic weight weight question. You know, the more
00:22:55more economic weights you have as
00:22:57as a country, the better you are
00:22:59are able to get the attention of
00:23:02of the world in a co-ordinated you you know, I use the words, you know,
00:23:05know, scattershot fashion, you know, know, you can have your football
00:23:08football team do well today or a a musician win a Grammy, you know,
00:23:11know, but it has to be something something more than that. And that's
00:23:14that's where economic weight comes comes in, you know, so ultimately
00:23:17ultimately the bigger we get economically, economically, the more we will be
00:23:20be able to tell our stories and get get the attention of the world. Thank
00:23:23Thank you. Aisha Yesufu. You heard
00:23:26heard Mr Cole talk about, you know, know, the music industry, also our
00:23:30our fashion. We are doing amazingly
00:23:33amazingly well in terms of our fashion, fashion, but at the end of the day,
00:23:36day, we need to know who we are as
00:23:38as Nigerians. We've not had the Nigerian
00:23:40Nigerian conversation. I think the the amalgamation of the Northern
00:23:44Northern and Southern protectorate, protectorate, it's like 112 years
00:23:48years now and yet as citizens have have we sat down to actually have
00:23:52have a Nigerian conversation to find
00:23:55find ourselves until, on until and and unless we're able to find ourselves,
00:23:59ourselves, love ourselves, accept accept ourselves unconditionally, unconditionally, there's no way that
00:24:03that we're going to tell our stories. stories. We'll continue to depend
00:24:06depend on others, you know, because because you want to be a validated.
00:24:10validated. The Nigerian youth are are doing amazingly well. I mean,
00:24:13mean, all of them understand you're you're able to tell your stories
00:24:16stories more, take ownership of it it and don't wait for anybody's validation.
00:24:19validation. That's just what I would would say. Thank you very much indeed.
00:24:22indeed. Last word Nabilah Usman. Usman. Honestly, a co-ordinated global
00:24:25global narrative needs money behind behind it. And I'm not saying, you
00:24:29you know, you pay the lobby firms
00:24:31firms and whatnot. I mean that what
00:24:33what Hollywood did for America, right?
00:24:36right? What Bollywood does for India,
00:24:39India, I mean that what the corporate
00:24:42corporate world, you know, we talk talk about big tech right now and
00:24:45and how it's in the West. So what
00:24:48what is Nigeria's version of big big tech? That is money, whether
00:24:51whether it's the movie industry, industry, in our case Nollywood that
00:24:54that is money. What is the media
00:24:56media that is money and the internal internal narrative, by the way, we
00:25:00we do have some policies in place. place. So for instance, for media
00:25:03media operating in Nigeria, we know know that if you're a terrestrial
00:25:07terrestrial broadcaster, whether
00:25:08whether that's radio or TV, your
00:25:12your content has a 8020 percentage. percentage. So 80% local content,
00:25:16content, 20% foreign. Same thing thing for the advertising sector.
00:25:19sector. So we do have, you know, know, some of those mechanisms in
00:25:23in place, but internally we need
00:25:24need to get it. That's where Mr Cole's Cole's response Matthias Yaissle
00:25:28Yaissle response, that's where it
00:25:29it comes in. But globally, money
00:25:33money that's the answer. Thank you you very much. I want to get back back to our questioner, Samuel. You
00:25:37You ask about the narrative and how how to create it. What do you think?
00:25:41think? I just feel like when you
00:25:43you tell a average, probably someone, someone, a foreigner and you ask
00:25:47ask him, what do you feel about Nigeria? Nigeria? What are your thoughts about
00:25:51about Nigeria? The first thing is is thinking of is something very
00:25:53very negative. Probably someone doing
00:25:56doing Yahoo or someone into someone someone into fraud basically. Yeah,
00:25:59Yeah, I admit that you know Afrobeat. Afrobeat. You know, even our football
00:26:03football team, female Super Falcons Falcons and Super Eagles. But basically
00:26:06basically nobody has seen the good, good, you know, the good stories stories are not really coming out
00:26:10out of Nigeria. They are of good good stories out there. What's going going on in the country. Samuel,
00:26:14Samuel, thank you very much indeed. indeed. And that is it for world
00:26:17world questions. Nigeria truth, trust
00:26:20trust and fake news. We will leave
00:26:22leave you. Thank you for watching.
00:28:35to publish their own versions first, first, some journalists say the right right of reply has had its day. It's
00:28:39It's all on The Media Show and BBC
00:28:42BBC News. There is nothing like driving
00:28:48driving into a moving story and not not knowing what is going to happen
00:28:51happen when we enter Damascus. It It was full of rebels shooting in
00:28:54in the air in celebration. You can can hear the sound of celebratory
00:28:57celebratory gunfire. And I live for for those moments. These troops are
00:29:01are heading into the battle zone zone in Khartoum, says the army to to carry out a special operation
00:29:04operation entering Khartoum was a
00:29:06a seminal moment. The level of destruction destruction was stunning. Sometimes
00:29:10Sometimes meeting someone on the the ground can change how you understand
00:29:13understand a story. Covering these
00:29:18these stories over the years has has impressed upon me how resilient
00:29:21resilient people are. And yes, many many of them are desperate, but many
00:29:24many of them are also steadfast. steadfast. They're gracious and they're
00:29:28they're generous. Journalism is about about telling people not only what
00:29:31what happened, but why it matters matters and what it means. History
00:29:34History happens in real time and and someone needs to be there to
00:29:39to witness it.
00:30:10MUSIC
00:30:10Hello. Live from London. This is
00:30:16is BBC News. Ed Sheeran apologises apologises for what he calls mistakes
00:30:18mistakes as he returns to the stage stage for the first time since rapper
00:30:22rapper Macklemore was dropped from from his US tour over pro-Palestinian
00:30:26pro-Palestinian remarks. The brother brother of Princess Diana Earl Spencer
00:30:29Spencer tells the BBC that there there are echoes of what happened
00:30:32happened to his sister in the way way the media is treating Prince
00:30:35Prince Harry and Meghan. It would would be really beholden on people
00:30:37people to learn from Diana's example. example. I'm not here to speak for
00:30:41for Harry and Meghan, but for anyone
00:30:43anyone who's being destroyed in this
00:30:45this way daily. It must be such a
00:30:48a cancerous influence in their life. life. These are live pictures from
00:30:51from Germany where polls are open open in two states. Political pressure
00:30:55pressure is mounting on Chancellor Chancellor Friedrich Merz. Two people
00:30:59people are reportedly