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00:00:00Business on BBC News. Make the connection.
00:00:08connection. MUSIC
00:00:15Now on BBC News and Katy Bonner talks to a Kenyan mother of four
00:00:19four about her struggles with postpartum
00:00:22postpartum psychosis. The symptoms, symptoms, the stigma and her road
00:00:25road to recovery focus on Africa.
00:00:28Africa. The conversation. I believe
00:00:35believe this baby is not mine. I I was, you know, given a different
00:00:39different baby. Yeah at birth maybe
00:00:43maybe she was switched at birth. birth. Someone told me, you know,
00:00:47know, you are a psycho. How does does your husband deal with you?
00:00:49you? Somebody said that to you? Yeah. Yeah. And I considered that a friend.
00:00:52friend. I wasn't talking, I wasn't wasn't taking care of my baby. I
00:00:55I wasn't taking a shower. I was not
00:00:57not eating. I was not breastfeeding. breastfeeding. What was happening
00:01:01happening to your baby at the time?
00:01:03time? She was crying. I remember
00:01:06remember she was struggling because because she was still breastfeeding,
00:01:09breastfeeding, not yet winning. And And I was here. I
00:01:17Here. I was not being able to
00:01:18breastfeed. So over the past couple
00:01:22couple of weeks there have been some some stories in the news which have
00:01:24have put a spotlight on maternal
00:01:26maternal mental health, in particular particular postpartum psychosis.
00:01:30psychosis. In fact, one article recently
00:01:32recently ran with the headline Postpartum
00:01:35Postpartum psychosis is Rising. We We are not ready. Now, while there
00:01:39there is little data for rates of
00:01:41of maternal mental health disorders
00:01:43disorders on the continent, the World World Health Organization says that
00:01:47that almost 20% of women in developing
00:01:50developing countries experience mental
00:01:53mental disorders after childbirth, childbirth, primarily depression.
00:01:56depression. But these days more women women are speaking out. So what's
00:01:59what's it like to experience postpartum postpartum psychosis and what can
00:02:03can be done to better support mothers?
00:02:06mothers? I am Nkechi Ogbonna and
00:02:08and this is Focus on Africa. The
00:02:10The conversation I am joined by Chebet Chebet Birir here in the studio with
00:02:14with me. She's a fellow journalist
00:02:16journalist in Nairobi and she's a a mother of four children. Hey, thank
00:02:20thank you so much for joining us. us. Thank you so much for inviting
00:02:23inviting me to this very important important discussion. I'm doing well. well. How are you? I'm very well,
00:02:26well, thank you. Nice to meet you. you. We're glad to have you. And
00:02:30And from Johannesburg, South Africa
00:02:33Africa we have perinatal psychiatrist psychiatrist Doctor Lavinia Lumu.
00:02:36Lumu. Hello, doctor Lumu, how is is Joburg today? Hi. Thank you for
00:02:40for inviting me. I'm Joburg is warming warming up. Oh fantastic. Thank you
00:02:44you so much for joining us for this
00:02:48this conversation. Now I'm going going to start with you. We're going
00:02:51going to start talking about motherhood motherhood and mental health. But
00:02:54But before we get into that, I just just wanted to know what your life
00:02:58life was like before you became a
00:02:59a mother. And if that was something
00:03:02something you had always wanted to to be. OK. Yeah, of course I had
00:03:05had always wanted to be a mother. mother. I'd say it's just the timing
00:03:09timing of the time I was I became became a mother that was not in my
00:03:13my plans. I had just, you know, cleared
00:03:16cleared my campus waiting to graduate. graduate. And then I found out I
00:03:20I was pregnant. But before that,
00:03:22that, you know, life was pretty much
00:03:25much OK as a student and as a girlfriend girlfriend to my boyfriend then who
00:03:29who is now my husband. Oh, so it
00:03:31it was a campus love. Yes. It was
00:03:34was actually high school love high high school all the way back, all
00:03:37all the way from high school. We We started as friends. And then just
00:03:40just before I cleared campus, we
00:03:41we started living together. And then, then, you know, things happened.
00:03:45happened. As they say, the rest is
00:03:46is history. I know three babies later,
00:03:49later, three babies later. Or four
00:03:52four rather. Yeah. Oh, fantastic. fantastic. But did you always want
00:03:56want children? Because, you know, know, it's one thing to say I want
00:03:59want to have a partner or I want want to, you know, build a life with
00:04:03with someone. But did you always always want to have. Your own children?
00:04:05children? Yes, yes. I always wanted wanted to have children. And like
00:04:08like I said, it was only the timing
00:04:11timing because the first time I got got pregnant I had, you know, we
00:04:14we were not married, I had not graduated. graduated. So this means I didn't
00:04:17didn't have a job. And he also was was young. So he also was just trying
00:04:21trying to stabilise in his employment
00:04:24employment and career. And so I found
00:04:26found that the timing was a bit not
00:04:29not as I expected for babies later
00:04:31later for babies later. Yeah, I am am really great news, but I want
00:04:34want you to talk to me about your your pregnancy journey, especially
00:04:38especially your first pregnancy. pregnancy. Yeah, with all the things things you were dealing with, you
00:04:41you had just finished school probably. probably. I don't know if you had
00:04:44had other plans and other dreams. dreams. Like you said, the timing timing was a bit off. Yeah. Of course.
00:04:47course. Talk to me about that pregnancy
00:04:49pregnancy journey. What was it like?
00:04:51like? It wasn't easy. I had to you you know, I had just graduated and
00:04:55and after graduation it's internship.
00:04:57internship. So I had to go through through internship as a pregnant
00:05:00pregnant intern. Wow. And you can
00:05:03can imagine it was quite OK. I mean,
00:05:07mean, everyone was friendly and wondering
00:05:09wondering if I'm OK to go to the the field and do assignments. When
00:05:13When I was about eight months when
00:05:16when it was now difficult, I my legs
00:05:17legs were starting to swell and I
00:05:20I had to take a break to just go go relax and wait for the arrival
00:05:24arrival of the baby. Tell me about about the first time you noticed.
00:05:27noticed. Look, something is off.
00:05:30off. The first time I noticed something something was off I was actually
00:05:34actually now a new mum. After delivery. delivery. The plan was that I stay
00:05:37stay with my in-laws and then at at this particular time there was
00:05:41was this sort of baby shower where where cousins come to see the baby.
00:05:44baby. Now when the baby has already
00:05:47already come and the first time I'm I'm not sure if I was noticing if
00:05:51if I'm not OK, but I did that two two years later and you know, did
00:05:55did an in retrospect, yeah. And it
00:05:59it was after the party and I was
00:06:01was it started with we call it mania
00:06:05mania or I was raving talking too
00:06:06too much. Unnecessary things and
00:06:10and I didn't even realise that I
00:06:12I was not OK. And then after that that it dipped and I was silent and
00:06:16and I was not talking to anyone for
00:06:19for so so several days, about four four days I wasn't talking, I wasn't
00:06:23wasn't taking care of my baby. I I wasn't taking a shower. I was not
00:06:26not eating. I was not breastfeeding.
00:06:29breastfeeding. So that's actually
00:06:30actually a crisis. As doctor Will
00:06:33Will will tell you. And I had to
00:06:37to be hospitalised. What was happening happening to your baby at the time?
00:06:40time? She was crying, I remember, remember, but I also don't remember
00:06:44remember having you know, I think think my family members just took took over and took care of, of the
00:06:48the baby. Of course she was struggling
00:06:50struggling because she was still still breastfeeding, not yet weaning.
00:06:53weaning. And I was here. I was not not being able to breastfeed at some
00:06:57some point she had to be given cow's
00:07:00cow's milk at that age. It's not
00:07:02not good for the baby's tummy. So So and then at some point they also
00:07:06also need, you know, they had to
00:07:08to do formula. And even in my culture,
00:07:11culture, we do breastfeeding for
00:07:13for six months exclusive. And for
00:07:15for two years, you know, with supplementary
00:07:17supplementary food. So she, I think
00:07:21think she wasn't OK. She wasn't very
00:07:22very OK. But my family members came
00:07:25came in and did what they needed needed to do while I was hospitalised.
00:07:29hospitalised. All right, let's pause pause there on the pregnancy journey.
00:07:32journey. I want to bring. In
00:07:38Want to bring in Doctor Lumu. At this point. Doctor Lumu, do you you think there are certain expectations
00:07:41expectations that people have of of motherhood or new mothers in this
00:07:44this case like Chabet being a mother?
00:07:46mother? Everyone paints this picture picture that it's, you know, the
00:07:50the happiest time of your life. It's
00:07:53It's going to be beautiful. And Doctor
00:07:55Doctor Lumu, do you think that these
00:07:58these expectations have any impact impact on, on the mental health of
00:08:02of the expectant mother? Oh most most definitely. They most definitely
00:08:05definitely do. Already, if you are
00:08:09are in a situation like Achebe's
00:08:12Achebe's case where she is now having
00:08:14having a baby out of wedlock, that's
00:08:17that's stressful. And also not living
00:08:23living up to those cultural or societal
00:08:26societal expectations. And the problem
00:08:27problem we have with stress and mental
00:08:31mental health is that stress actually
00:08:33actually increases the risk of mental
00:08:35mental health and mental health disorders.
00:08:38disorders. OK doctor Lumu let's pause
00:08:40pause there before we go further further in the conversation. I just
00:08:43just want to come back to Chabet.
00:08:46Chabet. Now. When did you get the
00:08:49the diagnosis to say OK, this is is postpartum psychosis. It took
00:08:52took it took about two years actually
00:08:57actually postpartum psychosis mostly mostly that is what Doctor Lumu will
00:09:00will tell you is, is when you have
00:09:04have bipolar disorder, you're predisposed
00:09:06predisposed to it. I was not diagnosed
00:09:08diagnosed with bipolar disorder and and I was not diagnosed with postpartum
00:09:12postpartum psychosis. It
00:09:17Psychosis. It came later. After. Now the first episode came came as postpartum psychosis and
00:09:20and then later on it came. Now I I was, you know, my kids were grown.
00:09:23grown. I think it was work stress
00:09:26stress that actually drove me into into an episode. And that's how they
00:09:30they concluded for bipolar. But now now for postpartum psychosis was
00:09:34was two years after when it happened
00:09:37happened with now two, all of my my children actually, the only difference
00:09:41difference is that the subsequent
00:09:42subsequent ones were less severe
00:09:45severe than the first one. OK, so
00:09:47so it takes time for a diagnosis diagnosis to be, you know, to be
00:09:51be detected. Detected. Yeah. OK.
00:09:53OK. Doctor Lumu is it common for
00:09:57for women to experience? Mental health
00:10:00health breakdowns. You know, during
00:10:03during or after pregnancies. So women
00:10:05women are more prone to having a
00:10:08a mental illness around the time
00:10:10time of pregnancy and delivery. And
00:10:12And this is mainly centred around around the fact that, you know, when
00:10:16when we are pregnant, we have these these pregnancy hormones which shoot
00:10:20shoot up and what tends to happen
00:10:22happen is during delivery after birth,
00:10:24birth, that sudden drop in those
00:10:26those pregnancy hormones predisposes
00:10:30predisposes women to mental illness. illness. Maybe there's an undiagnosed
00:10:33undiagnosed mental illness, as is
00:10:35is the case with Chabet. What happens
00:10:39happens with bipolar disorder, which
00:10:41which is a mood disorder? Often the
00:10:43the first diagnosis is made in the
00:10:46the postpartum period where women
00:10:48women can present with a severe postpartum
00:10:52postpartum depression or like in
00:10:53in Tibet's case a postpartum psychosis.
00:10:57psychosis. Postpartum psychosis. psychosis. Now, for some who may may not understand or have never
00:11:01never heard of it before, what is
00:11:03is it? What are the common symptoms
00:11:05symptoms and how do people get diagnosed?
00:11:08diagnosed? So postpartum psychosis
00:11:11psychosis is very rare. Actually,
00:11:14Actually, most people would get other
00:11:16other mental health related conditions
00:11:19conditions like depression is most
00:11:21most common in the postpartum period
00:11:23period and anxiety. But postpartum
00:11:27postpartum psychosis affects 1% of
00:11:30of people. So it's very rare but
00:11:32but very serious. It's a very severe
00:11:35severe form of mental health related
00:11:38related condition and why it is,
00:11:41is, is because psychosis results
00:11:44results in a person not really being
00:11:48being in touch with reality. The
00:11:50The brain has an overshoot or an
00:11:53an excess production of a certain
00:11:55certain brain hormone or neurotransmitter
00:11:57neurotransmitter that we call dopamine.
00:12:00dopamine. And this excess results
00:12:03results in an altered state of mind
00:12:06mind where the person might experience
00:12:08experience what we call delusions,
00:12:11delusions, which is an unusual, strange
00:12:14strange belief system. No one can
00:12:17can control it. You can't control control it. You can't snap out of
00:12:21of it. You can't, you know, just just tell the mother, go rest. You'll
00:12:25You'll be fine. It's important that
00:12:27that the mother gets help early.
00:12:30early. But what is distressing for
00:12:31for most people who go through postpartum
00:12:36postpartum psychosis is the hallucinations hallucinations where there are visual
00:12:39visual hallucinations. So the person
00:12:43person might see things or hear things
00:12:46things that are actually not there
00:12:47there in the form of voices. This
00:12:51This can be quite distressing for
00:12:53for the patient and is quite an a
00:12:56a very serious form of mental illness
00:12:59illness which would require hospitalisation.
00:13:03hospitalisation. OK, doctor Lumu, Lumu, I see you nodding quite a lot
00:13:05lot to some of the things that Doctor Doctor Lumu has been saying and listing
00:13:08listing out. Are there some of these these symptoms that you can identify
00:13:12identify with? Actually all of the the symptoms that Doctor Lumu is
00:13:15is talking about from delusions. delusions. So the, the detachment
00:13:19detachment for me was that I believed believed this baby is not mine. I
00:13:22I was, you know, given a different
00:13:25different baby. Yeah. At birth, maybe
00:13:28maybe she was switched at birth.
00:13:31birth. And so I was detached from
00:13:33from my baby thinking it's not my
00:13:35my baby. I was also the hallucinations
00:13:38hallucinations I had voices telling telling me I'm very bad mother. I
00:13:42I don't deserve to live. And they
00:13:45they were real to me at that time. time. That's why I can't. I could
00:13:49could not tell whether I was OK or
00:13:50or not. I was just out and out of
00:13:54of touch with reality. So it happened
00:13:56happened that also in terms of, you
00:14:01you know, beliefs, like I've said, said, believing that my baby was
00:14:05was not mine and also believing that that I was going to die, you know,
00:14:09know, soon. I mean, even in hospital,
00:14:13hospital, they were they had to do
00:14:15do IV injections for me and I believed
00:14:17believed that they wanted to kill kill me with that with the IV, although
00:14:21although I wanted to die at that that time, I was suicidal actually.
00:14:24actually. But there's that it's a a very thin line. You are suicidal,
00:14:27suicidal, but you're afraid of death. death. So it is a very conflicting
00:14:31conflicting state to be in. Were Were you still with your baby at at this point or no, at this point?
00:14:34point? Now my baby is taken away
00:14:37away from me but I remember being
00:14:40being with her in hospital at some
00:14:43some point with my mum. I don't remember remember everything in detail, but
00:14:47but my family was taking care of of my baby most of the time. Beyond
00:14:50Beyond the. Things that were going going through your mind, right? And
00:14:52And the beliefs that you had, I want
00:14:55want to know how you felt. Were you you feeling anything or were you
00:14:59you absent minded as well? Absent
00:15:02Absent minded, overwhelmed with guilt.
00:15:04guilt. And shame that I was a bad
00:15:06bad mother? You see now at this point
00:15:09point you already. The voices are are too loud and you believe those
00:15:13those voices that you're not a good good mother. And at this point I
00:15:17I was not in employment, so I believed believed I can't take care of this
00:15:20this baby, so I don't have the capacity. capacity. So then the delusions come
00:15:23come so that I can, you know, find find a way out. At that point you
00:15:27you believe that the best way out
00:15:30out is death or, you know, there's there's a better life after death.
00:15:33death. Talk me through the duration
00:15:37duration of let's call it a breakdown
00:15:39breakdown now from when you first first noticed that something was
00:15:42was off and when you went to seek
00:15:45seek help all the way to when you you started getting better, especially
00:15:48especially for the. First for the the first child. So for the first
00:15:50first child, I didn't know what I I was going through for about two
00:15:54two years. Really? Yes. So I yes,
00:15:58yes, it was a process. So the first
00:16:00first time I was admitted I had to
00:16:02to ask my mum and my uncle who was
00:16:05was then there for me, what was what
00:16:07what is my diagnosis? Because after after discharge there's a diagnosis
00:16:11diagnosis and what was written there there was, you know, delusional suicidal
00:16:14suicidal psychosis, psychotic. There There was no clear. So I had to pick
00:16:18pick what I read and feed it to the the internet to be able to understand
00:16:22understand what I was going through. through. And that took two years
00:16:25years to properly just understand understand and then come out now
00:16:28now to speak about it. And before before we talk about you speaking
00:16:32speaking about it in those two years, years, what was your relationship
00:16:35relationship with the baby after? after? After the first episode, there
00:16:39there was also a second episode and
00:16:42and my it was on and off when I whenever
00:16:44whenever I was now depressed, I'd I'd find myself being detached from
00:16:48from the baby and then the belief belief started coming again. But
00:16:51But of course, with medication therapy
00:16:54therapy and support from family they
00:16:58they I. They brought me back to reality.
00:17:00reality. And then of course I got
00:17:02got a job. So you see this it's a
00:17:06a 360 degree, you know, environmental
00:17:10environmental I'd say. Yeah, it takes
00:17:12takes it takes a lot of people and
00:17:16and institutions and things for you
00:17:17you to now come back to reality and
00:17:20and functioning. Although some medication
00:17:22medication would actually you know,
00:17:25know, make me unproductive in a way way that I can't, I can't you sleep
00:17:29sleep for longer hours than you're you're supposed to. So then you become
00:17:32become quite unproductive at work. work. And that's why I had to work
00:17:35work my way through because I need need to, you know, go about my daily
00:17:39daily activities. I want us to touch touch on the fact that after this
00:17:43this first episode with. The first first baby, you had other babies
00:17:47babies subsequently. Yes. And yeah,
00:17:50yeah, actually I went ahead to have
00:17:51have two more. So it didn't discourage
00:17:55discourage me in any way because because of the assurance, again,
00:17:59again, from my partner and my family. family. Yeah. Because one would say,
00:18:02say, you know, one. Would say, you you know, I've been through a lot.
00:18:04lot. I want some of my friends. Actually Actually after I started coming out
00:18:08out and speaking. I remember after after my first appearance on TV talking
00:18:12talking about that and the feedback feedback was like, I don't have other
00:18:15other children. Please just stop stop at that. It's too much on you.
00:18:19you. But it happened that I actually actually got encouraged and went
00:18:22went ahead to have two more babies
00:18:26babies because your experience should
00:18:27should not define your path for your
00:18:30your life. And it just because it it happened the first time, it doesn't
00:18:34doesn't mean it will happen again again the second time. Although as
00:18:36as Doctor Lumu would say, you are
00:18:40are predisposed but that actually actually makes you more aware and and alert. And that's what happened
00:18:43happened with my family members. members. So that the second time time when it happened, it wasn't
00:18:47wasn't that bad. I didn't even require require admission in hospital. I
00:18:51I just needed to be removed from
00:18:53from that environment where the triggers
00:18:55triggers were and taken to a more
00:18:58more safe and I mean secure for me
00:19:01me and I healed within a very short short time. I went back to work.
00:19:04work. OK. Yeah. All right. Let's Let's pause again and bring in. Doctor
00:19:08Doctor Lumu. There's something Chabad
00:19:10Chabad has said Doctor Lumu that
00:19:12that she became predisposed. Right.
00:19:15Right. Because it had the condition condition had happened before. She
00:19:18She had had a previous episode. Is Is that something that is a constant
00:19:22constant battle or it would go away away at some point? If you've had
00:19:26had a previous history of a breakdown
00:19:30breakdown or mental illness, you
00:19:32you are at higher risk with subsequent
00:19:35subsequent pregnancies. So I think,
00:19:37think, you know, in an ideal setting
00:19:40setting what should happen is screening.
00:19:43screening. Mothers need to be screened screened for a history of mental
00:19:46mental illness or a history of a
00:19:49a previous postpartum psychosis. psychosis. And unfortunately, in
00:19:52in most settings that doesn't happen
00:19:55happen because when we screen, then then we're able to prepare and we
00:19:59we are in a state now where the research
00:20:03research is out there and we do start
00:20:06start managing conditions in pregnancy. pregnancy. Right? Right. Doctor Lumu,
00:20:09Lumu, sorry to cut you there. I, I, but I just want to find out on
00:20:13on a wider scale when we hear things
00:20:16things like this, first of all, there there is that common belief that
00:20:19that people think it's a Western Western thing. You know, it's not
00:20:23not known in Africa. There is that that like you say, expectation that
00:20:27that a mother should automatically automatically love her baby and be
00:20:30be nurturing. But how prevalent are
00:20:33are these maternal mental health health conditions on the continent
00:20:37continent and how accessible is help?
00:20:38help? Actually. If we look at it
00:20:42it globally in high income countries, countries, maternal mental health
00:20:46health conditions, common ones such
00:20:48such as depression and anxiety happen
00:20:53happen in 1 in 5 women. So about
00:20:56about 20% on the continent. And I'll I'll take what, for example, what's
00:21:00what's happening in South Africa Africa with our research would which
00:21:03which would translate to the rest
00:21:05rest of the continent. It's up to
00:21:08to 30, sometimes 40%, meaning three
00:21:12three out of 10 or 4 out of ten or
00:21:15or up to 1 in 3 women have a potential
00:21:20potential common mental health condition, condition, such as depression or
00:21:23or anxiety. The issue is because
00:21:27because of stigma, because people
00:21:28people are scared of mental illness.
00:21:31illness. Culturally, people are scared
00:21:33scared to speak up when it it becomes
00:21:36becomes extreme. Like what Schibetta's
00:21:39Schibetta's experienced that a woman
00:21:40woman develops a post severe postpartum
00:21:44postpartum psychosis. That's when when we pay attention and it doesn't
00:21:48doesn't need to be that way when, when, as I've said, we have treatments
00:21:51treatments I. Want to bring in a.
00:21:54a. At this point in time when your
00:21:57your family took your baby and you
00:21:59you were getting help in the hospital.
00:22:02hospital. Beyond that help, what
00:22:04what else would you say you needed needed at that point? Was there something
00:22:07something you needed that you were
00:22:09were lacking? I wouldn't say that
00:22:12that I needed God but at that point
00:22:16point I was given. I was given medication,
00:22:18medication, I was given psychosocial psychosocial support in terms of
00:22:22of therapy. And my family also was,
00:22:24was, was there for me. So at that that point, of course, it was recovery
00:22:27recovery that I needed. I have been
00:22:30been OK for over two years now without without medication and I live a normal
00:22:34normal life. I'm employed, I have have my children, I take care of
00:22:38of them appropriately. As a mother. mother. I am a wife. And you know,
00:22:41know, it's possible to actually live
00:22:44live your life normally after that that postpartum psychosis or even
00:22:47even any mental health diagnosis. diagnosis. It's possible to live
00:22:50live your life normally. However, However, follow instructions of those
00:22:54those people around you, your family, family, the psychiatrist, the counsellor
00:22:58counsellor go through everything everything as prescribed and then
00:23:01then everything else will come as
00:23:04as as individual at individual level.
00:23:06level. Doctor Lumo spoke about, you
00:23:09you know, stigma. Is that something something you experience maybe from
00:23:12from the first episode or with subsequent
00:23:14subsequent children? Some someone someone told me, you know, you are
00:23:18are a psycho. How does your husband husband deal with you? Somebody said
00:23:20said that to you. Yeah. And I considered
00:23:23considered that a friend a very close close friend from high school. And
00:23:27And then there's also the self stigma. stigma. So for me to come out and
00:23:30and become a mental health advocate advocate or the mental health advocate
00:23:33advocate that I am now, I had to to overcome the self stigma. Yeah.
00:23:37Yeah. And just decide that, you know, know, this is for the sake of those
00:23:41those who are going through the same same or worse. OK. Yes. Thank you
00:23:44you so much. That was very wholesome.
00:23:48wholesome. It was great to share share for you to share your experience
00:23:51experience with us. And thank you
00:23:52you so much, Doctor Lumu, for bringing
00:23:55bringing in your expertise into this
00:23:58this conversation. Spoke about the
00:24:01the need to include mental health
00:24:05health care in ante-natal clinics. clinics. Is that something you. I
00:24:08I see you nodding. I want to believe believe that something you agree
00:24:12agree with doctor Lumu thank you you so much. So much for sharing
00:24:16sharing your expertise and that's
00:24:17that's it honestly for focus on Africa,
00:24:20Africa, the conversation. Please Please remember that this podcast
00:24:24podcast content does not serve as as a replacement for professional
00:24:28professional medical advice, diagnosis
00:24:31diagnosis or treatment. Always, always
00:24:33always seek the advice of your doctor
00:24:36doctor or qualified healthcare provider
00:24:38provider and don't forget to subscribe subscribe to BBC Africa to get the
00:24:42the latest content. You can also also reach out to me on social media
00:24:46media with the handle at I am Nkechi
00:24:49Nkechi and it's yours truly on Obinna. Obinna. I will definitely see you
00:24:53you next. Time.
00:28:36MUSIC
00:28:43For me, trust is about presence,
00:28:46presence, about fostering relationships relationships all around the world
00:28:49world over years. We're not chasing
00:28:50chasing stories. We're already there. there. It's about patients not rushing
00:28:54rushing to be the first but striving
00:28:56striving to get it right, to get
00:28:59get to the truth. Precision. Knowledge. Knowledge. Facts. Wading through
00:29:02through endless waves of disinformation. disinformation. We can't just ask
00:29:06ask the questions. We have to question
00:29:08question the answers. Debate, debate, debate, debate. We have to create
00:29:12create a space for opposing voices voices to be heard and challenged.
00:29:16challenged. We fight every day to
00:29:18to earn your trust and we never take
00:29:21take it for granted. We capture the the story. Fact check the story.
00:29:24story. We break the story. We explore
00:29:27explore the story so you can trust
00:29:30trust us to tell it.
00:30:09Hello. Live from London. This
00:30:12is BBC News. Voting is under way way in two German states as Chancellor
00:30:16Chancellor Friedrich Merz faces growing
00:30:18growing political pressure. The brother brother of Princess Diana Earl Spencer
00:30:22Spencer tells the BBC that there there are echoes of what happened
00:30:24happened to his sister in the way way the media is treating Prince
00:30:28Prince Harry and Meghan. It would would be really beholden on people
00:30:31people to learn from Diana's example. example. I'm not here to speak for
00:30:34for Harry and Meghan, but for anyone
00:30:36anyone who's being destroyed in this
00:30:38this way daily, it must be such a
00:30:41a cancerous influence in their life.
00:30:43life. Two people are reportedly killed
00:30:46killed after Ukraine carries out out large-scale drone attacks on
00:30:49on the Moscow region. Ed Sheeran Sheeran apologises for what he calls
00:30:53calls mistakes as he returns to the the stage for the first time since
00:30:56since rapper Macklemore was dropped dropped from his US tour over