Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:08MUSIC
00:00:14She was the most famous woman
00:00:17in the world. Next to Charles. And
00:00:20And I can't go wrong. He's there
00:00:22there with me. Married into the monarchy.
00:00:26monarchy. Destined to be queen. Her
00:00:30Her campaigning, her chosen causes
00:00:31causes broke convention and touched
00:00:34touched millions of lives. I'm only only trying to highlight a problem
00:00:37problem that's going on all around around the world. That's all. But
00:00:41But that. Fairytale became a nightmare.
00:00:45nightmare. Private unhappiness couldn't couldn't be hidden from the public
00:00:48public glare. Delight in her beloved
00:00:51beloved boys. One a future King came
00:00:55came with constant pursuit by the
00:00:57the press, admired and attacked on
00:00:59on a scale few public figures have
00:01:01have ever known. Diana was a phenomenon.
00:01:14phenomenon. Diana, Princess of Wales, Wales, has died after a car crash
00:01:17crash in Paris. But her extraordinary
00:01:20extraordinary life cut short her
00:01:23her death at 36 shocked the world.
00:01:26world. Her funeral stopped a nation.
00:01:29nation. It was her brother Charles Charles who spoke for her on that
00:01:32that day. I don't think she ever ever understood why her genuinely
00:01:35genuinely good intentions were sneered sneered at by the media, why there
00:01:38there appeared to be a permanent permanent quest on their behalf to
00:01:41to bring her down with an attack
00:01:43attack on those he says hunted and
00:01:45and harmed her and the palace establishment establishment that failed to protect.
00:01:49protect. The most modern of women. women. On a progress across Britain
00:01:53Britain with almost mediaeval overtones.
00:02:01overtones. It's only now Charles
00:02:03Charles Spencer is revealing his his full story. The tale of the woman
00:02:07woman he believes the world never
00:02:11never understood her former husband,
00:02:14husband, now on the throne. God save
00:02:16save the King. Receive the royal
00:02:18royal sceptre. His beloved sons are
00:02:22are bitterly split. A woman who will
00:02:25will always hold a place. In all
00:02:28all our history. It's a silhouette
00:02:38silhouette of Diana and a quote from from something she said just before
00:02:41before she died. People come from
00:02:44from all over the world. You know, know, it's astonishing to come and
00:02:48and pay tribute to Diana. There is
00:02:51is this extraordinary legacy that that goes on. Nearly 30 years on,
00:02:55on, where people feel this profound profound contact with her. And it's
00:02:59it's yeah, it's very humbling. These
00:03:02These are the grounds where Princess Princess Diana used to walk and play.
00:03:06play. This is all Thorpe, the Spencer
00:03:08Spencer family's ancestral home.
00:03:10home. The quiet place where now she
00:03:13she is laid to rest. There was controversy
00:03:16controversy in her life. There was
00:03:18was controversy in her death, her
00:03:21her unhappiness with the man. Now
00:03:23Now King, her fame, her legacy still
00:03:25still bitterly argued over just as
00:03:29as disputes rage between the two
00:03:31two sons she left behind. You dedicate
00:03:36dedicate this book to everyone who,
00:03:38who, like you, has lost a brother brother or a sister. The difference
00:03:42difference for you is everyone knows knows how your sister died, but you've
00:03:45you've never really talked about about those awful hours. When the
00:03:48the news came through, when the horror horror of what happened became clear.
00:03:52clear. So let's go back in time. time. How did you find out? Well,
00:03:55Well, I was living in South Africa Africa at the time in Cape Town,
00:03:58Town, and I got a call in the middle
00:03:59middle of the night and it was my
00:04:02my sister Jane, and she said, don't don't worry Diana's been in a car
00:04:06car crash, but it's not too serious.
00:04:09serious. And I thought, OK, well well even if it's not serious, I I can probably find out what's happening
00:04:13happening on the news. And then I I through the night I watched the
00:04:17the TV news unfurling and then I
00:04:19I kept getting more and more distressing
00:04:22distressing calls from home, from
00:04:23from my sister. And then it escalated
00:04:26escalated after a few hours to I I heard my brother in law in the
00:04:29the background who Robert Fellows Fellows used to work for the Queen Queen as her private secretary. And
00:04:33And I heard him go, oh, no! And then
00:04:38then my sister Jane said, I'm afraid
00:04:40afraid she's died. So that's how
00:04:42how it started in my life. In that
00:04:45that night as a little prang. And
00:04:48And then it became a broken leg,
00:04:50leg, perhaps a head injury and then
00:04:53then death. And in your book, you
00:04:57you recount how your little girl
00:04:59girl Eliza said, she's not dead in in real life, is she? Yeah. It was
00:05:03was really heartbreaking. I was alone alone in the house with my four children
00:05:06children who were very small at the the time, and my three little girls
00:05:09girls came tumbling through into into the kitchen. And Diana had just
00:05:12just been staying with us a few months months earlier in Cape Town. So when
00:05:15when I said, I'm afraid I got this this terrible news and they just
00:05:18just looked up at me and I said, said, yes, I'm afraid Aunt Diana's
00:05:21Diana's died. And that's what Eliza
00:05:23Eliza said. Not in real life, daddy. daddy. Utterly heartbreaking. But
00:05:27But as you were making preparations preparations to get back here to
00:05:30to the family ancestral home, although
00:05:33although you had another call, a a call from Prince Charles. Of course,
00:05:37course, now the King. What did he
00:05:39he say and how did he sound? Well,
00:05:43Well, I was rushing around the house house preparing the children and
00:05:45and all of that sort of thing for
00:05:47for the day ahead. And I remember remember picking up the telephone.
00:05:50telephone. I was upstairs in my house
00:05:52house in Cape Town, and he was telling
00:05:55telling me how he had told the boys, boys, William and Harry at Balmoral
00:05:59Balmoral and broken the news to them.
00:06:01them. And I. I felt, as I say in
00:06:04in the book actually I felt there there was a sort of giddy tone. I'd
00:06:08I'd had a lot of calls that day from
00:06:10from people who cared, who were stunned
00:06:12stunned like we all were. And I just
00:06:15just felt there was a lightness in in his tone about Diana's death that
00:06:19that really jarred with me. You write
00:06:22write that he was giddily elated
00:06:25elated like a lottery winner. I mean, mean, you're suggesting he was somehow
00:06:28somehow pleased that his former wife
00:06:32wife was dead? I well, I'm reporting
00:06:35reporting every word in this book. book. I report exactly as I saw it
00:06:39it and felt it at the time. And I
00:06:42I was surprised at the giddiness giddiness of his tone. That's what
00:06:46what I'm recording there. It's an
00:06:48an incredibly damning thing to say, say, though, about his reaction to
00:06:52to the death of the mother of his his children. And you go on to write,
00:06:56write, I suspect the prince's reaction reaction must have been to think
00:06:59think more of how this event might might free him to marry the woman
00:07:03woman he loved, rather than appreciating appreciating the loss of the one
00:07:07one he did not. You're suggesting suggesting there in black and white
00:07:10white that the now King felt that
00:07:14that Diana's death was rather convenient
00:07:16convenient because he would be able able to marry Camilla. That is how
00:07:20how I felt at the time. From the
00:07:22the tone of his voice. So I've only only ever had two calls from him
00:07:26him and they were both around this this time. One was on the day of
00:07:29of Diana's death and one was a couple couple of days later. But are you
00:07:33you sure that's what he was thinking? thinking? I mean, she cannot. Be
00:07:36Be sure. I'm saying that's what I
00:07:39I assume from the tone is a possibility. possibility. And that's all I can
00:07:43can do. As you mentioned, there was
00:07:46was then a second call, another phone
00:07:49phone call between you and the former former Prince Charles as you were
00:07:52were planning Diana's funeral. Now Now we know there were huge ructions
00:07:56ructions behind the scene at that that time of massive grief. What
00:08:00What kind of event should it be? be? Who should be in charge? And
00:08:03And there was an instruction from from the palace that her two beloved
00:08:07beloved boys should walk behind the
00:08:09the coffin through the streets of
00:08:11of London. You tried to stop that
00:08:14that happening, but what happened happened in that conversation with
00:08:18with Charles? I was having a phone
00:08:22phone conversation with a colonel colonel from the household at Buckingham
00:08:25Buckingham Palace, and as he was was about to finish our conversation,
00:08:27conversation, he said. And it's been
00:08:30been agreed that the two young princes princes will walk behind their mother's
00:08:33mother's coffin. And I said, well, well, of course that's not going
00:08:36going to happen. It just seemed so so monstrous. And he said, well,
00:08:40well, it's been decided it will. will. And I said, but my sister wouldn't
00:08:43wouldn't have wanted that. And he
00:08:45he sort of coughed politely and the the conversation came to an end.
00:08:48end. And then quite soon after that,
00:08:51that, a sort of dedicated phone line
00:08:53line in my office went again. And
00:08:55And it was the then Prince of Wales Wales saying, I gather you've got
00:08:58got a problem with the funeral service. service. And I was thinking, no,
00:09:02no, I haven't, because I was thinking thinking of the structure of the
00:09:05the actual service in Westminster
00:09:08Westminster Abbey. And then he said, said, but I gather you don't think
00:09:11think William and Harry should walk walk behind Diana's coffin? And I
00:09:13I said, well, of course not, sir.
00:09:15sir. She wouldn't want it. And then
00:09:18then he said, well, I walk behind behind Lord Mountbatten's coffin.
00:09:21coffin. And I said, yes, but you you were 30 and he wasn't your mother.
00:09:25mother. And then to be I mean he
00:09:27he went ballistic would be the right
00:09:29right term and started really going going for my family as a whole about
00:09:33about their sense of duty not being
00:09:35being adequate enough and ranted
00:09:38ranted for a while. I have no idea idea how long, but it was a significant
00:09:41significant period and I just listened. listened. And then he stopped and
00:09:44and I thought, oh, now now he's going going to pull himself together and
00:09:47and say something more appropriate.
00:09:49appropriate. And then he said, we'll
00:09:51we'll forget her soon enough. What
00:09:57What went through your mind? Well, Well, I'm. Not sure I can say exactly exactly what went through my mind,
00:10:01mind, but I really was so stunned.
00:10:03stunned. And I just after a stunned
00:10:06stunned silence, I said, I cannot cannot believe you just said that.
00:10:09that. And I hung up on him. You know
00:10:15know that. Buckingham Palace has
00:10:18has already said with a degree of
00:10:22of fury. That that didn't happen.
00:10:25happen. I just. Haven't actually, actually, Laura, they've sort of of smudged that one haven't they?
00:10:29they? They said that recollections recollections may vary. Well, let
00:10:31let me read you exactly what the
00:10:33the palace has said. They've said
00:10:37said His Majesty is mindful that
00:10:39that the pain of fraternal grief
00:10:42grief can cloud reason affect judgement
00:10:45judgement and colour memory in ways
00:10:48ways others do not recognise. Even
00:10:51Even many years after such a loss.
00:10:55loss. The King is plainly furious. furious. Buckingham Palace almost
00:10:59almost never issues any kind of statement. statement. Well, is he. Furious or
00:11:02or is he embarrassed? Because I can can tell you here and now those are
00:11:05are exactly the words he said. I've I've only ever had two calls on the
00:11:08the line with Prince Charles at any any stage of my life. I was hyper
00:11:12hyper alert to what he was saying, saying, and those are precisely the
00:11:15the words he said. And I promised promised that to you. Now, genuinely,
00:11:18genuinely, that is what he said. said. I don't hear him saying he
00:11:22he didn't say that. Did you write
00:11:26write it down? Did you keep a diary? diary? Do you have evidence that
00:11:30that that is what he said at the the time? Because to be fair, this
00:11:33this was a time of massive shock
00:11:35shock and emotion for both of you.
00:11:39you. I told friends and family straight straight away close friends and family
00:11:43family about what had been said because because it was so monstrous. And
00:11:46And then beyond that it very much much informed. This was just before
00:11:50before I really tackled the eulogy.
00:11:51eulogy. You can see evidence of that
00:11:56that conversation in the final eulogy. eulogy. I really stressed Diana's
00:11:59Diana's sense of duty. Duty comes comes across very clearly in the
00:12:03the eulogy, and then it culminates culminates in something which I think
00:12:06think really underlines the truth truth of my assertion here can I.
00:12:10I. Which is if you get to the final
00:12:13final bit of my eulogy, it is, you
00:12:15you know that her fantastic qualities qualities will never be extinguished
00:12:19extinguished from our minds. It was was a direct rebuttal of we'll forget
00:12:23forget her soon enough. Above all,
00:12:26all, we give thanks for the life life of a woman. I'm so proud to
00:12:28to be able to call my sister. The
00:12:32The unique, the complex, the extraordinary
00:12:34extraordinary and irreplaceable Diana
00:12:36Diana whose beauty both internal internal and external, will never
00:12:40never be extinguished from our minds.
00:12:43minds. Which Charles are the public public meant to believe? Are they
00:12:46they to believe you or are they to
00:12:50to believe the King, the head of of state of this country who's giving
00:12:53giving the impression very forcefully
00:12:57forcefully that this didn't happen? happen? Who are we to believe? Well,
00:13:00Well, I'm telling the truth. To the
00:13:04the King is giving an impression impression to the country. That's
00:13:07That's not true. Misleading people, people, even lying. I can hardly
00:13:11hardly be responsible for what Buckingham Buckingham Palace says. All I can
00:13:14can tell you is what was said and and what I heard and what shocked
00:13:17shocked me. What else would have
00:13:19have made me hang up on the King
00:13:21King that day? It was something as
00:13:24as outrageous as that slur against
00:13:26against Diana. What do you think
00:13:30think that her sons, his sons, your
00:13:34your nephews who you vowed so publicly,
00:13:36publicly, so movingly to protect
00:13:39protect will think when they hear
00:13:41hear you saying that revealing these
00:13:44these words nearly three decades decades on which you know, are bound
00:13:47bound to stir up huge amounts of
00:13:49of pain and anger. Well, I don't
00:13:53don't like to talk about what I've I've been speaking about to William
00:13:56William and Harry, but this will will not be a surprise to them. I
00:13:59I will tell you that these words
00:14:01words will not be a surprise to them.
00:14:04them. But what are they to make of
00:14:08of that? As human beings you're telling
00:14:10telling the world their father said,
00:14:12said, don't worry, everyone will
00:14:15will forget your dead mother. I have have a duty, you know, as an eyewitness
00:14:19eyewitness to history. And it's my
00:14:21my duty in my. The final season of
00:14:24of my life. This was very much a a spur for me to write this now was.
00:14:28was. Both my parents died in their
00:14:30their 60s. I'm in my 60s. I'm aware
00:14:33aware of mortality. And I wanted wanted to just put things down once
00:14:36once and for all that were true.
00:14:38true. And part of the spine of my
00:14:42my book is the construction of my
00:14:45my eulogy. I know this is not a threat.
00:14:47threat. It's a fact. I know lots
00:14:49lots of things about the King, which
00:14:53which I chose not to include in the the book because they were not relevant.
00:14:56relevant. I'm a historian. I've worked
00:14:58worked for decent news organisations organisations like yourself and it
00:15:02it was just my duty to lay it out. out. There is a reason why those
00:15:05those words were in my eulogy, and
00:15:07and I have to give that reason. Sounds
00:15:11Sounds a bit like a threat if you're you're saying you know other things
00:15:14things about the King that could could be damaging to him. No, not
00:15:17not at all a threat. It's just the the reality. I want to give the context
00:15:20context of what I said and what I I didn't say. I'm not threatening.
00:15:23threatening. I've got no interest.
00:15:25interest. I'm not a salacious writer
00:15:27writer on any level. But I just the
00:15:30the point being that if I was a salacious
00:15:33salacious writer and wanted to write write that sort of thing, I have
00:15:37have plenty of other things I could could have said and really have no
00:15:39no interest in doing so. One of the
00:15:44the other things that your sister
00:15:46sister told you as her marriage was
00:15:49was breaking down, you recount a
00:15:51a story where she says she's going
00:15:53going to get divorced because, and
00:15:55and I quote, my husband is in love
00:15:58love with his valet. Now you say
00:16:01say you never asked who that was
00:16:04was or why she believed it. Yet you
00:16:07you have printed it repeating what
00:16:12what is an incendiary claim suggesting suggesting that the King, the now
00:16:15now King, was in love with, we assume
00:16:18assume would be a male member of
00:16:20of staff. Do you believe that to
00:16:23to be true? I know Diana said that that to me and that's why I recorded
00:16:26recorded it. So it's in the context context of a conversation where Diana
00:16:31Diana is telling me that her marriage marriage is over, and I remember remember it very well. We were at
00:16:34at a restaurant called San Lorenzo
00:16:37Lorenzo and in London and she said
00:16:41said to me, Carlos, which is what what she called me, I am going to
00:16:44to get divorced. And I knew her marriage marriage was rocky, but I had no
00:16:47no idea that that was where she was
00:16:49was headed. And so I just said to
00:16:53to her, look, I obviously I totally totally support whatever decision decision you made. I know it's not
00:16:56not a decision you'll have made lightly, lightly, but I do worry. I said,
00:17:00said, I do worry that the public
00:17:02public will really be in a way angry angry with you for killing the fairytale
00:17:06fairytale that they've all subscribed subscribed to. And those are the
00:17:09the words she said to me. You say say though in the book it was an
00:17:13an improbable claim and therefore therefore to include it in the book
00:17:17book when it is improbable, when when you know that this will be incendiary incendiary to many people's ears.
00:17:21ears. And also you're a historian historian of great renown and used
00:17:25used to dealing with sources and
00:17:27and evidence. Some people might wonder
00:17:30wonder if you have included that
00:17:32that claim, which you can't verify.
00:17:35verify. Well, I can absolutely swear
00:17:37swear that she said those words to
00:17:39to me. But in terms of proving that
00:17:42that that happened, I just wonder wonder and you know, this will be
00:17:45be the case that some people listening
00:17:47listening will wonder if you are
00:17:50are including some of these allegations
00:17:52allegations in order to create interest
00:17:56interest to sell your book. Perhaps Perhaps you may be accused of that.
00:17:59that. You know that. Of course, I've I've been accused of lots of things.
00:18:02things. I remember straight after
00:18:03after delivering the eulogy, I became
00:18:06became a bit of a tabloid punchbag. punchbag. So I'm used to when I speak
00:18:09speak up for Diana, I'm used to brickbats brickbats coming my way. That's what
00:18:13what happens. My job, though, is is at the end of the day, I think
00:18:16think we have to get back to why why I wrote this. It's a brother's
00:18:20brother's tribute, a loving tribute
00:18:21tribute to a sister. And I think
00:18:24think she deserves honesty. So that's that's what I've delivered. Do you
00:18:27you feel that people have sometimes
00:18:32sometimes misunderstood that? Of Of course she had these huge struggles,
00:18:35struggles, these huge agonies, but but actually there was another side
00:18:38side to her that, you know, leaps leaps off the many of the pages of
00:18:41of your book. She was just phenomenally phenomenally good fun. We grew up
00:18:45up together. I mean, it was never never a dull moment. We both have
00:18:48have ADHD. She was never diagnosed, diagnosed, but clearly we did. I
00:18:52I got a letter from a nanny recently recently who was lovely, and she
00:18:54she said you were a bit of a handful. handful. And I think we probably
00:18:58probably were. But the but not nothing
00:19:00nothing malicious, just a lot of
00:19:03of energy and humour, you see, I I wanted to get across that Diana
00:19:07Diana was such a breath of fresh
00:19:08fresh air. She was also a complicated
00:19:12complicated person and under all all of that pressure she did also
00:19:15also want to tell her story and you
00:19:19you introduced her to Martin Bashir,
00:19:22Bashir, then of the BBC, the journalist journalist who conned her into giving
00:19:26giving an interview by using the
00:19:29the wildest of claims. Now, after
00:19:31after years of investigations, the the BBC has eventually apologised
00:19:35apologised for their part in all
00:19:36all of that. But do you think that
00:19:40that that interview, what happened
00:19:42happened then is linked even indirectly
00:19:46indirectly to her finding herself herself in Paris on the night of
00:19:49of her death, getting into that car
00:19:52car and ending up in that crash, crash, do you make that connection?
00:19:55connection? I do make it as a connection,
00:19:58connection, not the connection. So
00:20:00So Diana was under huge pressure
00:20:03pressure and particularly after she
00:20:05she separated, I do think with Panorama,
00:20:09Panorama, yes, they conned Diana.
00:20:10Diana. They also conned me by showing
00:20:13showing false bank statements to
00:20:15to me to get to Diana by saying that
00:20:17that somebody else had missed had
00:20:20had been deceiving her. But what
00:20:23what happened? The consequences of
00:20:26of Diana being told you cannot trust
00:20:30trust anyone meant that she was alone
00:20:32alone that night. Really. And I think think that she was convinced that
00:20:35that her she got rid of her driver. driver. Totally innocent man was
00:20:39was told that he couldn't be there. there. He wouldn't have been in Paris.
00:20:42Paris. But police bodyguards, you you know, private protection officers, officers, they got rid of two. And
00:20:46And I think that's really it all all builds to people said, oh, she
00:20:50she was paranoid. She wasn't paranoid. paranoid. She was convinced that
00:20:53that she couldn't trust people because because the evidence was there. And,
00:20:57And, you know, I think that left left her vulnerable that night. She
00:21:00She had also by that point she'd
00:21:04she'd lost her security. She'd had had her title taken away from her
00:21:07her too, by the Royal Family. That's
00:21:09That's happened to one of her sons,
00:21:12sons, Harry. He's had his title taken
00:21:15taken away. He's losing a fight to
00:21:18to get his security back. How do do you think Harry and his family
00:21:22family have been treated by the Royal Royal Family? I would feel very reluctant
00:21:25reluctant to get involved in this
00:21:27this discussion. I would say that
00:21:32that I personally worry about the
00:21:34the fifth in line to the throne who
00:21:36who served in the military, not having having any police protection. It
00:21:39It does worry me not politically,
00:21:41politically, not because I can influence influence Ravec or whatever they
00:21:45they called the security people, people, but just as an uncle, I do
00:21:49do worry about the security aspect
00:21:50aspect titles. I you know, I know
00:21:54know I've got one, but I don't really really use it. So titles are not
00:21:57not very important to me. So I would
00:22:01would just say from a security aspect, aspect, as an uncle who's seen his
00:22:04his sister die in very, very preventable
00:22:08preventable circumstances that I I would veer towards protection.
00:22:12protection. But do you fear there there is somehow an an echo of what
00:22:15what happened to Diana? You know, know, Harry has said on many occasions
00:22:18occasions that he hasn't felt supported supported by the institution over
00:22:21over the choices that he's made with with his life. Do you worry about
00:22:24about there being an echo of what what happened to your sister? I think
00:22:28think there's a perception in the the media that I'm on Harry's side.
00:22:32side. Well, I'm on my deceased sister's
00:22:35sister's son's side, both of them. them. And if either of them wanted wanted anything, then I'd be equally
00:22:39equally there for them. And I never
00:22:41never get involved in one camp or
00:22:44or the other except as a benign figure.
00:22:47figure. I hope that's my role. Do
00:22:49Do you think Diana would identify
00:22:52identify with the attention, the the focus that has been put on them?
00:22:55them? And with Meghan, who said she she felt like she was the most trolled trolled person in the world, you
00:22:59you know, they were here during the the summer not so long ago. If you
00:23:03you look at an article in a tabloid
00:23:07tabloid about Diana or the couple
00:23:09couple that you're mentioning, Harry Harry and Meghan, you know, it's
00:23:13it's they can be really, really unpleasant. unpleasant. And I think it would
00:23:17would be really beholden on people people to learn from Diana's example.
00:23:20example. I'm not here to speak for for Harry and Meghan, but for anyone
00:23:24anyone who's being destroyed in this
00:23:26this way daily, it must be such a
00:23:28a cancerous influence in their life. life. I saw it with Diana, I saw
00:23:32saw Diana, I mentioned it in the the eulogy, her tears of despair.
00:23:36despair. One of the problems with with Diana was she was very, very
00:23:39very sensitive to criticism. And And of course, I'm sure most of your
00:23:43your viewers now think, oh, she had had this splendid life and it was was all amazing. And she didn't.
00:23:46didn't. She was so privileged and and so perfect in so many ways. But
00:23:50But she was really brought low by by all that criticism. And yeah,
00:23:53yeah, I suppose it's a pity when
00:23:55when I see echoes of that. Now you've
00:23:58you've written about the monarchy monarchy over the ages and goodness goodness knows in history there have
00:24:02have been plenty of splits between between the Spencers and the Windsors.
00:24:05Windsors. But there's now a very very bitter, difficult split inside
00:24:09inside the Windsor family between between the two boys. You've said
00:24:13said you don't want to take sides sides but what do you think their
00:24:16their mother would say to them about
00:24:19about the division between them? them? There's a lot of reasons on
00:24:22on both sides why this has got to
00:24:24to this stage and as an uncle I hope
00:24:28hope one day it's resolved. But I I don't know. I certainly don't know
00:24:31know what's been done in the finer
00:24:34finer detail. And so I would feel feel intrusive if I got more involved
00:24:38involved than to say, of course a a mother would want her two sons
00:24:42sons to be happy together and love love each other. Do you believe in
00:24:45in the monarchy? Well, I believe believe it exists and I believe it
00:24:49it will continue to exist and. I
00:24:55I think monarchies are generally generally a. When they work, they they work really well. I'm married
00:24:59married to a Norwegian and their
00:25:02their monarchy is absolute. It's It's so admirable. I really have
00:25:05have a lot of time for it. I. I haven't
00:25:08haven't got a. I think monarchy is is absolutely fine. I'm probably
00:25:12probably with the majority of the the British people. You think God,
00:25:14God, who do you get as a president?
00:25:16president? And that's quite worrying. worrying. Some of the politicians
00:25:20politicians who might go for that
00:25:22that role, who would be less appetising
00:25:25appetising than a monarch. I find find some of the flummery around
00:25:27around monarchy quite jarring. You
00:25:31You know, you mentioned the statement
00:25:33statement earlier. His Majesty says says I just don't think it's healthy
00:25:37healthy for a human being to be seen
00:25:41seen in such archaic servile terms.
00:25:44terms. So I'm a bit more I'm all
00:25:46all for a monarchy, but I like a
00:25:48a modern monarchy. Do you support
00:25:51support this monarchy and this monarch? monarch? Because some of the claims
00:25:55claims in your book are incredibly
00:25:59incredibly damning of the monarch monarch of this country, who also
00:26:02also people watching will remember
00:26:05remember has been seriously ill in
00:26:06in this last year. The family has
00:26:09has had illness and strife and upset
00:26:13upset and division. Do you support
00:26:16support this monarchy? I do. You
00:26:19You have a funny way of showing it?
00:26:22it? Well, I'm not dealing with King King Charles as monarch in this book.
00:26:26book. This is all 30 odd years ago.
00:26:28ago. And what was said and done then.
00:26:30then. There are so many memories
00:26:32memories in the book and it's feels feels very meaningful to sit in this
00:26:36this house where much of what you you recount took place, even though
00:26:39though this wasn't your happy family family home. Well, my fondest memories
00:26:42memories of Diana tend to be from from our happy childhood home, which
00:26:46which was before this, which is Park
00:26:47Park House in Sandringham in Norfolk,
00:26:51Norfolk, just it wasn't even though
00:26:53though we had the rupture of my parents
00:26:57parents divorce, it was such a happy happy home. And it's just those days,
00:27:00days, their carefree days. So not not an instance, but a period of
00:27:04of life. And I tell you, it really really breaks me up when I look at
00:27:08at old photographs of Diana as a a child and then think what happened
00:27:11happened to her? It's terribly sad.
00:27:16sad. How much do you miss her? Well,
00:27:21Well, every day, you know, that's that's the thing with sibling loss.
00:27:23loss. You never get over it. Do you
00:27:31you think there may be a time where
00:27:34where you've used the phrase get
00:27:37get over, but reading a book and
00:27:40and given how this has all played
00:27:41played in public, there is a sense
00:27:44sense that somehow what happened happened to her has understandably
00:27:48understandably almost consumed you
00:27:50you at times. I have a very. Luckily
00:27:53Luckily I have a hugely diverse and and happy life. One of the reasons
00:27:56reasons I call this swansong actually actually is because it's my sign
00:27:59sign off. I have been Diana's brother.
00:28:02brother. This is my final take on
00:28:04on the situation and I have a wonderful,
00:28:08wonderful, happy life. Gorgeous children,
00:28:10children, fabulous wife and we live live this much more normal life than
00:28:14than this looks like. And that's
00:28:16that's my future. This is my swan
00:28:18swan song too. I'm not here to bang
00:28:21bang on about Diana. This is my final
00:28:24final word. Celebration of her. And
00:28:27And I will step off into the sunset
00:28:29sunset now and not be available for
00:28:32for comment. But there will be, as
00:28:35as we've discussed, a lot of turbulence,
00:28:39turbulence, a lot of anger, perhaps perhaps a lot of divisions stirred stirred up by some of the more eye
00:28:42eye catching claims that you have
00:28:45have made. And some people might
00:28:49might wonder just maybe, as maybe
00:28:51maybe in every family, some family
00:28:53family secrets are better left unsaid. unsaid. They certainly are. And they
00:28:57they have been left unsaid. Will
00:29:01Will you say more? You've said no.
00:29:03no. That's it. That's me done. Tears.
00:29:07Tears. My 62. You don't need those.
00:29:16those. MUSIC
00:29:17MUSIC
00:29:29Hello. I'm Samantha Simmonds and we were watching their Laura
00:29:33Laura Kuenssberg interview with Earl
00:29:35Earl Charles Spencer about the revelations revelations in his book to be published
00:29:39published in the next few days. Well, Well, with me now to discuss that
00:29:42that interview is our senior royal royal correspondent, Daniela Relph.
00:29:44Relph. Hi, Daniela. Good to see you.
00:29:46you. A lengthy, detailed interview interview with Earl Spencer there
00:29:50there about the revelations in his his book, The Impact They've Had,
00:29:54Had, why he's doing this now. What What struck you the most about that
00:29:57that interview? That conversation? conversation? I found it a really
00:29:59really compelling watch actually actually hearing what we've really really been reading about for the
00:30:03the past few days actually. Now hearing hearing him sit down and say it and
00:30:07and talk in great detail about those
00:30:10those really difficult days in the the time after the death of Diana,
00:30:14Diana, between her death and the the funeral, the complex relationships
00:30:17relationships at play, he was, as as we have read directly, critical
00:30:21critical of the King and some of of the things he says the King did
00:30:24did and the way he behaved. So hearing
00:30:27hearing that so directly for him him from him was interesting. He
00:30:30He was calm. He was cool in his recollections. recollections. He seemed very considered
00:30:34considered in what he had to say. say. You know, he did occasionally
00:30:37occasionally say, this is how I remember remember it. These are my recollections.
00:30:40recollections. I can't tell you whether whether this is true or not, but
00:30:43but this is what I remember. And And it was very compelling to hear
00:30:47hear him. He spoke about the reaction
00:30:50reaction from the palace as Laura Laura said, you know, it had been
00:30:53been denied and he pushed back. He He said, well, actually it hadn't hadn't been denied. They've kind
00:30:56kind of fudged it. They he referred referred to this kind of recollections recollections may vary