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00:00:20Headline News:
00:00:23Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Pakistan sign defense agreement in Mecca.
00:00:26Riyadh says their pact threatens no country.
00:00:30Ankara also says it doesn't conflict with its NATO
00:00:33commitments. Trump hopes for an agreement to
00:00:37reopen the Strait of Hormuz in the near future. A U.S.
00:00:41official said that if this waterway is fully opened,
00:00:44the naval blockade of Iran will be
00:00:46lifted. Scattered clashes over women's
00:00:50attire in Iran. The Friday Prayer Leader of Tehran claimed organized foreign
00:00:54efforts to promote immodesty
00:00:57were underway.
00:01:00And a 97-year-old woman breaks a record by performing on the wing of a
00:01:04plane.
00:01:24Hello and welcome to this news segment from BBC Persian Television. I'm
00:01:27Parham Ghobadi. Saudi Arabia says the joint
00:01:31defense agreement it signed with Turkey and Pakistan has nothing to do with
00:01:35nuclear ambitions and does not threaten
00:01:38any country in the region. Turkey also said that this
00:01:41defense pact does not conflict with its commitments within the framework of
00:01:45NATO. According to this agreement, which Mohammed bin
00:01:48Salman, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and Shahbaz Sharif signed in Mecca,
00:01:52an armed attack on any of these
00:01:55three countries will be considered an attack on all of them. Turkey is a member of
00:01:59NATO. Saudi Arabia is one of the main allies of the United States in the region
00:02:02and the world's largest oil exporter, and Pakistan
00:02:06is the only Muslim country with nuclear weapons.
00:02:10More details in a report by Kazra
00:02:11Naji.
00:02:15The leaders of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey today
00:02:19signed a tripartite defense pact known as
00:02:22the Mecca Pact. Just as the Iran-U.S. war
00:02:26seriously threatens the region, and now...
00:02:30Saudi Arabia has been drawn
00:02:32into it.
00:02:37Based on this pact or joint
00:02:40Mecca defense agreement, an attack and aggression against one of the signatories
00:02:43will be considered an attack and aggression against all three.
00:02:47Just a few days ago, Iran officially and
00:02:50in writing informed the Arab countries of the region that in
00:02:54case of new American attacks on Iran, their oil and
00:02:57energy facilities would be targeted. Today's agreement
00:03:01states that all three countries are committed to further
00:03:04strengthening their collective security and promoting peace,
00:03:08security, and stability in the region and
00:03:11beyond.
00:03:14The defense pact of the three Muslim and neighboring
00:03:17countries of Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey now
00:03:20shows that Iran has been able to unite
00:03:23these three countries against its threats.
00:03:27Although this pact also has a half-eye on Israel, whose level
00:03:31of threats has greatly increased in the past few
00:03:34years. For Saudi Arabia, this pact is now
00:03:37an opportunity to reduce reliance on the U.S.
00:03:41to strengthen its defense.
00:03:44Just 11 months ago, wealthy Saudi Arabia
00:03:47and nuclear-powered Pakistan signed a joint
00:03:51defense pact. A pact that puts Pakistan's military
00:03:54capability and nuclear weapons at the disposal
00:03:57of Saudi defense. Now Turkey, with one of
00:04:02the most powerful armies in the world, a NATO
00:04:05member, has joined this group to strengthen Saudi Arabia's
00:04:09defense in this dangerous and unstable
00:04:12situation in
00:04:14the region.
00:04:17These images today near Ma'rib in
00:04:20Yemen, adjacent to Sanaa. The Mecca defense pact
00:04:23was signed today in a situation where the Houthi rebels
00:04:26of Yemen have increased their attacks here against
00:04:30Saudi forces and ships traveling to the country's ports
00:04:33in the Red Sea. The Houthis,
00:04:37who are considered an Iranian proxy force, and this pact can
00:04:40also affect these
00:04:44forces. Today's pact is a sign of
00:04:47the current situation in the region and the threat that these countries
00:04:50primarily feel from Iran. Iran, with its
00:04:54behavior, is going to unite more countries against
00:04:57itself. Mr. Nadimi's program. Each of
00:05:11these countries has certain capabilities. What do they bring to the table?
00:05:14Each of them,
00:05:17well, Turkey has a
00:05:21very significant and extensive
00:05:23defense industry in
00:05:27the region. It has made a lot of progress
00:05:30and can add this military
00:05:34industry capacity to this pact.
00:05:37In the current situation, Saudi Arabia
00:05:41is investing in some of Turkey's
00:05:44projects, such as the stealth fighter, in which it has invested
00:05:48about 8 billion dollars, and there is talk that it will
00:05:51purchase a number of these fighters after they reach
00:05:54the production stage. Turkey also has a
00:05:58multi-layered missile defense system
00:06:02called "Steel Dome" under development
00:06:05and modification, which includes both air defense
00:06:09and missile defense, and well.
00:06:12Given that similar Western systems
00:06:16take a significant amount of time to be ordered
00:06:19and delivered, and these countries themselves
00:06:23have a very high need, Saudi Arabia can
00:06:27count on Turkey's missile defense
00:06:30system, which can enter the production cycle in the
00:06:34relatively near future, and any investment by
00:06:38Turkey and Saudi Arabia can
00:06:41have a quick return. Turkey has the second largest
00:06:44army in NATO in terms
00:06:46of ground forces.
00:06:49That's two times the ground forces of Saudi Arabia.
00:06:53Fighter jets, nearly a thousand military fighter and
00:06:57refueling aircraft. It also
00:07:01has a strong navy. Pakistan also has about
00:07:04170 nuclear warheads. I wanted to ask you about this. Do you think that
00:07:07this nuclear umbrella of Pakistan
00:07:11is going to be applied to Saudi Arabia,
00:07:14meaning against potential
00:07:17attacks?
00:07:19This issue has not been discussed very openly and
00:07:23is vague. Perhaps
00:07:26it was intentional. Naturally, when
00:07:29this pact states that any attack on any of these countries will be an attack on any other country,
00:07:33it can potentially
00:07:36include the use of nuclear weapons.
00:07:39But we see that the use of nuclear weapons for countries that
00:07:43possess this capability
00:07:45is not
00:07:48easy, and we saw in several conflicts between India and Pakistan
00:07:51that none of these countries used nuclear
00:07:55weapons. Therefore, it can be expected that in many, many
00:07:58future scenarios, if something happens
00:08:01and Pakistan wants to get involved in defending Turkey
00:08:05or Saudi Arabia, it will not necessarily resort
00:08:08to nuclear weapons. But having about a hundred
00:08:12nuclear contracts, Donald Trump announced a while ago that he had signed
00:08:16with Saudi Arabia. Apart from that, 13 years ago, it was reported
00:08:19that Saudi Arabia and Pakistan had built nuclear warheads
00:08:23on behalf of Saudi Arabia and they were ready for delivery whenever Saudi Arabia wanted them. In the 80s, it also acquired
00:08:26S-2 missiles from China, which have a range
00:08:30of almost 3,000 kilometers. If you look at the sum of these,
00:08:33what are the concerns of Saudi Arabia? Iran or
00:08:36Israel? Saudi Arabia is trying to increase
00:08:40its deterrence capability in all directions, and this includes both
00:08:44Israel and Iran. Saudi Arabia's
00:08:48energy infrastructure is very vulnerable, and the events
00:08:52that have occurred in the past few years, from 2019 to today,
00:08:55have shown how vulnerable Saudi Arabia's energy
00:08:58infrastructure is both in the Persian Gulf and in
00:09:02the Red Sea. And it needs to create a significant deterrence capability
00:09:06here, and it has realized that the defensive
00:09:09capability that the United States can create in the region
00:09:13is very limited and is not even enough to defend itself,
00:09:16let alone its allies. And Saudi Arabia
00:09:20should look to other defense capabilities,
00:09:24and here the issue is nuclear deterrence.
00:09:27Pakistan can potentially
00:09:30be a deterrent,
00:09:33although it is not specifically
00:09:36mentioned in this defense pact. But
00:09:39naturally, because Saudi Arabia funded
00:09:42Pakistan's military nuclear program, as it is said,
00:09:46perhaps in some of the
00:09:50confidential articles of this pact between Pakistan and
00:09:53Saudi Arabia, or even in the bilateral pact between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan,
00:09:57the use of nuclear weapons may have been
00:10:01envisioned under certain circumstances. In this case,
00:10:04Saudi Arabia will be at ease. Yes, it bought long-range
00:10:08S-2 missiles from China in the 1980s.
00:10:11Their range was 25 kilometers at that time, for deterrence against
00:10:15Iran, and of course, Israel was also
00:10:18talked about at that time. And then it acquired a much
00:10:22newer generation of missiles from China, and it is even
00:10:25said that it plans
00:10:27to manufacture them in Saudi Arabia.
00:10:31Is signing this memorandum of understanding enough, or
00:10:35are other things also needed, such as joint command,
00:10:38holding exercises, and things like that? Well,
00:10:42naturally, this is the political stage of
00:10:45political agreement for this pact. Naturally, a lot
00:10:48of time will have to be spent to create
00:10:52joint cooperation and joint
00:10:55compatibility of command and control systems between these
00:10:59countries. Especially Turkey, Pakistan,
00:11:02and Saudi Arabia have a long history of military cooperation. Pakistani military forces
00:11:06have been present in Saudi Arabia, and many of
00:11:09Saudi Arabia's military systems are actually
00:11:13operated by Pakistanis. But simultaneous cooperation
00:11:16between Pakistan, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia
00:11:19will require significant training,
00:11:23military maneuvers, and the creation of a series
00:11:26of control
00:11:30and command systems. Now, to what extent will this happen? Will
00:11:33a joint structure be created?
00:11:36I think these details are not yet clear. It will
00:11:40be determined in the future whether a joint
00:11:43military force will be created within the framework
00:11:47of this pact, or whether this is merely
00:11:50a political pact and defense cooperation will be carried out
00:11:54bilaterally or trilaterally within a specific framework that will be determined
00:11:58in the future. But it seems that, as it has been said, it does
00:12:02not conflict with the Peninsula Shield Force
00:12:05of the Gulf Cooperation Council and will, in a way,
00:12:09also cooperate with it, and this may lead to countries
00:12:13like Kuwait and Bahrain also joining it in the future. It's still not
00:12:16possible to be very sure about the Emirates. Do you think that if, for example,
00:12:20Iran's infrastructure is targeted by the US
00:12:22and Iran attacks Saudi Arabia's infrastructure
00:12:26or Iranian-backed groups from Iraq or the Houthis, will this cause Turkey and
00:12:30Pakistan to take military action against Iran? Briefly, if
00:12:33you please. Automatically, no.
00:12:36But it could cause Saudi Arabia to ask
00:12:40these countries for help very clearly,
00:12:44and these countries, at their own discretion and
00:12:47based on their own interests, can use their
00:12:49capabilities to defend Saudi Arabia. I think
00:12:53Turkey will quickly send
00:13:03Thank you very much for being with us on the program, Mr. Nadimi, military analyst
00:13:07from Washington. We have Meir
00:13:10Javedanfar, an expert on Israeli affairs from Tel Aviv. Welcome
00:13:13to the program, Mr. Javedanfar. Has the Islamic NATO caused
00:13:17concern in Israel?
00:13:20In one sense, yes, because
00:13:24it can
00:13:26make diplomatic relations between Israel and
00:13:30Saudi Arabia more difficult.
00:13:33Let's not forget that one of the reasons Hamas
00:13:36attacked Israel on October 7th was that
00:13:40Israel and Saudi Arabia were on the verge of establishing
00:13:43diplomatic relations. And
00:13:46now we know that Mr.
00:13:49Erdogan has truly adopted very strong
00:13:52anti-Israeli stances since
00:13:55the day after October 7th, in particular,
00:13:58and close relations between
00:14:02Saudi Arabia and Turkey could make the issue
00:14:05more difficult in the future, of course with a different
00:14:09Israeli government, not the current Israeli government,
00:14:12but in another sense, no,
00:14:14because it can
00:14:17actually be an opportunity for Israel
00:14:21because it seems that one of the
00:14:25main goals of this
00:14:28pact is the Guardianship of the Islamic Jurist in
00:14:32Tehran. Do you think this will affect the normalization
00:14:35of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel,
00:14:38which they have pursued so much?
00:14:41It can, yes, it can.
00:14:44One of the hopes in Israel in
00:14:48previous years was that Israel, Saudi Arabia, and
00:14:51the moderate Sunni countries
00:14:56that are against the government, that truly suffer
00:14:59from the policies of the Guardianship of the Islamic Jurist, Israel would come together
00:15:02with them to form a pact against
00:15:06the government in Iran, against the government's policies in Iran.
00:15:10But Israel did not succeed for various
00:15:13reasons, because of October 7th, and
00:15:16there's also the possibility that because the war
00:15:19could have ended sooner in Gaza, but perhaps because of
00:15:23Israel's policies, it continued. And the longer the war continued,
00:15:27it truly made reaching an agreement
00:15:30with Saudi Arabia more difficult for
00:15:34Israel. Now, Mr. now that the Saudis
00:15:39will be indebted to Mr. Erdogan
00:15:41for defending their country, perhaps one of the conditions
00:15:45he will impose in the future for continuing
00:15:49to defend Saudi Arabia
00:15:51is that Saudi Arabia never establishes relations with Israel. This could
00:15:55truly be a major challenge for Israel
00:15:58in the short term, but in the long term, it's difficult because
00:16:02we all know how much
00:16:05agreements and relationships
00:16:11can have significant changes in the Middle East. Don't forget how much
00:16:15Saudi Arabia and Turkey were enemies. Mr.
00:16:18Khashoggi was killed in Turkey, and Turkey was truly
00:16:22against Mr. Bin Salman, and with
00:16:25the problems that arose, Mr. Erdogan
00:16:29truly supported him in creating these problems
00:16:32for Mr. Bin Salman, and he was his main source.
00:16:36And now both of them are friends.
00:16:46Thank you very much for being with us on the program, Meir Javedanfar, an expert on Israeli
00:16:49affairs from Tel Aviv. The interim Friday Prayer Leader of Tehran,
00:16:53criticizing what he called the promotion of indecency and immodesty
00:16:57in Iran, claimed that some people receive
00:17:00dollars to appear in what he called
00:17:04an abnormal situation in society. Mohammad Javad Hajj
00:17:08Ali Akbari said in his Friday prayer sermons:
00:17:12A group is taking advantage of the war to promote nudity. At the same time,
00:17:15reports were published about hijab warnings given to a number of
00:17:18women in some cities, including Tehran, Rasht, and Isfahan,
00:17:22and a number of cafes were also sealed. Zaman Savadi,
00:17:25a lawyer and gender equality activist from Brighton, UK, is with us.
00:17:29Welcome to the program, Ms. Savadi. In a situation where
00:17:32the Islamic Republic, now Iran is at war, officials
00:17:35are trying very hard, according to themselves.
00:17:43There is a possibility of protest. Why should they touch such a
00:17:46controversial issue?
00:17:50Hello to you and your viewers. In fact,
00:17:53precisely for the reasons you mentioned, the Islamic Republic is currently trying
00:17:57to increase its control over women, women's bodies, and through
00:18:01that, over society, because it knows that the people are like fire under ashes,
00:18:05and at any moment, this fire may ignite
00:18:08again. The problem is that fundamentally, when we look at the core
00:18:11of what happens regarding the hijab, it's not about what a woman wears
00:18:15or doesn't wear, or what kind of lifestyle she has,
00:18:19but rather about control and obedience. As
00:18:22we saw in the previous weeks and months, women who
00:18:26did not have the desired attire of the Islamic Republic were present in governmental street
00:18:30carnivals, in the occupation of the street. There, the command
00:18:33was the command to occupy the street, the command to display
00:18:37national unity, and the issue of hijab was not important. But
00:18:41now the issue is different. Now the issue is to send this message
00:18:45to society, to women and to all citizens, that "I can control
00:18:48you." Let's pay attention to this point: the force that is present
00:18:51in the streets today, for example, as the morality police,
00:18:55will not always remain the morality police. The issue is control. Today,
00:18:58that morality police force actually
00:19:01controls the issue of women's hijab, and tomorrow it will control
00:19:05street protests and other behaviors of citizens. That is, in fact,
00:19:09the Islamic Republic, with the very thing we call dress
00:19:12code control, is normalizing
00:19:15control in society. The moral panic, those
00:19:19words you used, nudity, immodesty,
00:19:23also creates a moral panic in society, which
00:19:26wants to say that through this fear, I will justify
00:19:30any kind of suppression, any kind of confrontation.
00:19:33Well, women have been fighting for all these years.
00:19:43The Islamic Republic has not been able to implement the cultural policies of the Islamic Republic
00:19:47against women and in other cultural fields against the people.
00:19:50Why insist on continuing this war?
00:19:53This point you are referring to
00:19:56is an interesting point, because as you said, women
00:20:00have never abandoned this stronghold. It was the first stronghold,
00:20:03in fact, the first line of defense that women put up against the Islamic Republic
00:20:07in March 1979. They came to the streets and said, "No to headscarves, no to oppression." They knew very well that
00:20:11the one who tells them, as we heard before, what to
00:20:14wear, will later tell them what to think and how to live.
00:20:18This has continued from that year until now. The women
00:20:21who came to the streets that day, their granddaughters, their
00:20:25daughters have not left the streets, they have not returned home, they are still in the streets and
00:20:28fighting. Yes, they were able to push back the Islamic Republic
00:20:32somewhat, but the Islamic Republic knows very well that
00:20:36the issue is not exactly this. The issue, as I said in the first part,
00:20:39is control. If we tell these women that okay, you
00:20:43can no longer wear the hijab, well, their other demands for civil
00:20:47rights, women will specifically demand
00:20:50their other rights. But there is another point,
00:20:54and that is that the Islamic Republic has a core of supporters,
00:20:57and that core of supporters wants the Islamic Republic
00:21:01to police society on what one wears, what one drinks,
00:21:05what kind of relationships one has. If the Islamic Republic loses
00:21:08its core of supporters by really retreating
00:21:12on the issue of hijab, well, it has lost its supporters,
00:21:16but at the same time, it cannot attract its supporters.
00:21:20I, as an opponent of the Islamic Republic, if the Islamic
00:21:23Republic retreats from the hijab, from the issue of hijab, I will not
00:21:27become a supporter of the Islamic Republic. So, as a result, the Islamic Republic finds itself in this difficult position
00:21:30that if it retreats from the hijab, it will lose support
00:21:34from its own supporters, and it will not attract opponents either. So, it sees the best thing
00:21:37to do is to maintain this stronghold, maintain control over women and
00:21:41control over society, and rely on the support
00:21:44of that group that still supports it and wants
00:21:48these controls to remain in society. These actions of the Islamic Republic
00:21:52are usually seasonal, for example, they happen more in summers. Now
00:21:55we are on the eve of the anniversary of the Woman, Life,
00:21:58Freedom movement. Some say that perhaps that
00:22:02is the reason. Do you think these will also have an effect
00:22:06on the path that Iranian women or others have taken and are
00:22:09at odds with the policies of the Islamic Republic?
00:22:12What has happened throughout these past four decades
00:22:16shows us that these will have no effect. That is, the Islamic Republic constantly
00:22:20tries to call women's way of dressing,
00:22:23citizens' lifestyle, abnormal,
00:22:26whereas, well, what we are witnessing shows that if this
00:22:30were a norm, there would be no need
00:22:33for police, cameras, sealing, and such things
00:22:37to impose it on society. This shows that, in fact,
00:22:40society is clearly telling the government that the way you
00:22:44treat me is abnormal,
00:22:47and this struggle continues. I don't think that, in fact,
00:22:51society will retreat from these behaviors now,
00:22:55but society also has its limits. Perhaps sometimes for rejuvenation,
00:22:58less, but later more, it will stand against these behaviors.
00:23:02Thank you very much for being with us on the program. Saman Savadi, a lawyer and
00:23:06gender equality activist from Brighton. We continue the program
00:23:09with a few short news items.
00:23:12A court of appeal in the United States has ordered the government to halt
00:23:16the construction of a $400 million reception hall at the White House.
00:23:20The court announced that the government must obtain
00:23:23permission from Congress to carry out this project. Following
00:23:26the demolition of the East Wing of the White House, the National Trust for
00:23:30Historic Preservation sued the government to prevent
00:23:34further construction. Donald Trump, in response, described this ruling as a politically
00:23:38motivated action and said that
00:23:41his administration would appeal to the Supreme
00:23:43Court. Following a shooting at a school in the suburbs
00:23:47of Bangkok, the Prime Minister of Thailand promised to enact
00:23:50new legislation to control firearms. In this incident, a 14-year-old
00:23:54boy killed seven people, including five teachers,
00:23:58and then committed suicide. He first killed his
00:24:01grandfather and grandmother and then stormed the school
00:24:04where he was studying. 13 people were hospitalized.
00:24:08The Prime Minister of Thailand said it is clear that this attack was
00:24:11premeditated. An
00:24:15eastern imperial eagle was released into the wild in Serbia
00:24:18after being rescued from wildlife traffickers. This
00:24:22bird, named Felix, was caught last year after leaving its nest
00:24:26and smuggled to the Middle East. The traffickers demanded
00:24:30a ransom for his release. Tracking devices showed that Felix's
00:24:33last known location was Syria. After that, lengthy negotiations
00:24:37led to him being sent to Beirut for recovery and returned home
00:24:40six months later. The eastern imperial eagle is an endangered
00:24:44species.
00:24:45A woman.
00:24:49A decade ago,
00:24:57with these acrobatic performances, she raised funds
00:25:00for charities. In her latest performance,
00:25:04she raised donations for the medical staff who helped her during her
00:25:07stroke. Steve Noyes, a BBC
00:25:11reporter, witnessed her magnificent
00:25:13flight firsthand.
00:25:16Betty is back. She is 97 years
00:25:20old and has once again taken to the If I don't do these things, life becomes
00:25:24boring for me. When you get old, you can no longer go to certain places,
00:25:27do certain things, drive. You can't see.
00:25:31I can't see very well. It's a bit annoying. In the sky,
00:25:34Betty feels at home. On the ground, her
00:25:38friends and neighbors in her village in Cheltenham
00:25:42watch her with worried eyes.
00:25:46Betty started this 10 years ago at the age of 87.
00:25:50Since then, she has abseiled from a tower in Cheltenham
00:25:53and ridden a zipline in Snowdonia, but
00:25:57this time she has gone further than ever and asked the pilot
00:26:00to perform a maneuver.
00:27:24Every time you have the opportunity to do good work, don't ignore it, because you won't pass this way again. Betty has promised that in two and a half more years, at the age of 100,
00:27:28she will go into the sky to spend her 100th birthday
00:27:31in glory on a flying
00:27:34machine.
00:27:39For the latest news, always visit our social networks and our website.
00:27:43We have reached the end of this news segment. Thank you for choosing BBC Persian.
00:27:47Jürgen Habermas was one of those