Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00Those destroy other marine like species. They also
00:00:03him generally cause significant damage to the ship itself and the shipping industry. Siavash Ardalan has a report on this matter. Amidst the war between Iran and the US over the control of the Strait of Hormuz, a common and silent enemy is being created beneath these waters. The closure of the Strait of Hormuz means the stoppage and immobilization of hundreds of ships in the region's waters, and this is a law for the growth and proliferation of invasive species that cling to the hulls of ships. In the shipping industry, these organisms are known as biofouling or bioaccumulators. A costly nuisance for shipping, both commercial, recreational, and military. The journal Biological Invasions, in its research, described this issue as a huge threat to global biosecurity. Where is the problem? Bioaccumulators are not just harmless invertebrates that are easily removed from the ship's hull. When they settle on the surface of a ship, they rapidly multiply and turn every ship into a carrier of all kinds of microbes and various bacteria that can destroy the native species of any region. When these invasive species themselves, such as black mussels, microscopic algae, and marine ascidians, detach from the ship's hull, they quickly tighten their grip on the ecosystem for other species. With the prolonged immobility of ships in the Persian Gulf and the Sea of Oman, the primary danger is to the ecosystem of these waters, and when these ships are moved to other parts of the world, they bring the same disaster to other ecosystems. But this is not just an environmental issue. The shipping industry spends 30 to 50 billion dollars annually to combat marine biofouling. These invasive species not only damage ship engines, but also cause ships to consume up to 40% more fuel for movement, and more fuel consumption means more water and atmospheric pollution and more greenhouse gas accumulation. Other costs are related to cleaning the hull surface of ships. This cleaning requires toxic biocides. Efforts are being made to prevent these toxins, along with ship paints, from entering the water during cleaning. In Persian Gulf ports, like many other ports around the world, these wastes are not collected. Perhaps with new agreements between the warring countries, ships will soon be able to move, but the consequences of their immobility have not been without cost. Part of the tolls that Iran and Oman are trying to collect from ship traffic is supposed to be spent on addressing the environmental issues of the region's waters. Siavash Ardalan, BBC. Let's conclude the program with the live images we have from the Strait of Hormuz, where you can see that all the conflicts of this war are now confined here. Iran has closed the Strait of Hormuz, and there is no traffic. The US and other countries want this strait to be reopened due to the many economic and military losses incurred, but no results have been achieved yet, and it seems that new conditions are also on the table. We have reached the end of this 60-minute program. You can also watch this program and our previous programs on the BBC Persian website and YouTube. Thank you for accompanying us on this program. The author of the best-selling book "Resilience" tells us how we can increase our resilience and ability to cope in unfavorable life situations. Never make someone your priority if you are just one of their options. When someone gives you their anger and insults, it's up to you whether you accept that anger and insults and hold onto those bad feelings, or leave them with the person who gave them to you. Designate a place in your surroundings as a sanctuary, a peaceful place. Take some time for yourself to just relax and calm your mind. 37 degrees, Wednesdays on BBC Persian. Headlines. Progress in Iran-Oman negotiations on Strait of Hormuz routes, alongside new attacks on ships. Tehran says reopening this waterway requires US acceptance of its conditions. Reports of warnings from the US Joint Chiefs of Staff to Trump's advisors. Duncan said a way out of the war with Iran must be found. Pressure of war, sanctions, and naval blockade on Iran's already exhausted economy. Pezeshkian. view negotiations with the Islamic
00:00:06Republic with pessimism and believe that
00:00:09a military confrontation with
00:00:12full force should
00:00:15be pursued. Thank you, my colleague
00:00:18Shida Hooshmandi, who was with us from Washington. But
00:00:22we have live images from the Strait of Hormuz, where you
00:00:25can now see that, practically speaking, the number of vessels and
00:00:29tankers passing through this strait is almost
00:00:33negligible. Iran and Oman have been
00:00:36negotiating for days over a mechanism
00:00:40to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, but now Iran
00:00:43has put new conditions on
00:00:47the table. As Mohammad Bagher Zolqadr,
00:00:50Secretary of the Supreme National Security Council, stated in
00:00:54his statement, he has set conditions that are
00:00:58somewhat similar to Pakistan's memorandum of understanding,
00:01:01but more painful. He states that America
00:01:04must also end the war against Iran's allies
00:01:08in Lebanon, Palestine, Yemen, and Iraq, and it is unclear whether the other side
00:01:12will accept these conditions or not. Jonathan Hackert,
00:01:15former intelligence officer of the US Marine
00:01:19Corps and author of the book
00:01:22"Iran's Shadow Weapons: Covert Actions, Intelligence
00:01:25Operations, and Unconventional Warfare" joined
00:01:28us from Washington. Welcome. Mr. Hakett,
00:01:32Mr. Vance, on one hand, talks about
00:01:35not trusting Iran and Iran's
00:01:38promises, but we have heard repeatedly from various
00:01:42US officials in recent days that negotiations
00:01:45are coming to a conclusion and will be announced today or tomorrow. Under
00:01:49these circumstances, is there any hope that this
00:01:52agreement will succeed?
00:02:00There is hope that this agreement will finally
00:02:03yield a positive outcome. However,
00:02:06the pressures created by the oil
00:02:10crisis cannot be ignored. With rising
00:02:14oil prices, the pressure will increase. When
00:02:17oil prices fall, both sides will eventually
00:02:20pay less attention to this issue. Today, we
00:02:24are witnessing the Iranian side once again raising
00:02:28new conditions, such as
00:02:34those very similar to Pakistan's memorandum of
00:02:38understanding, even with additional
00:02:41clauses. If Iran wants to add
00:02:45its conditions, will
00:02:45America be willing
00:02:53to accept them? America has, in a way, tied its
00:02:57own hands in these negotiations.
00:03:00The Iranian government, I mean, clearly
00:03:03stated at the beginning what it wanted from this war. It
00:03:06had stated its demands for
00:03:10a return to the pre-war stability. But
00:03:13the United States, on the contrary,
00:03:16has constantly changed its stance
00:03:19both publicly and privately,
00:03:23depending on the daily situation and what
00:03:26it is pursuing. That is why it is very strange that if
00:03:49they find an exit strategy for America
00:03:53to exit the war, what is this exit strategy? How does America want
00:03:56to exit this war? Even now, it has pursued various
00:04:00paths and failed.
00:04:06General Keane has a specific task, which
00:04:10is to advise the US President on military matters. He
00:04:13is now carrying out his duties. The question is
00:04:17whether the US President is willing
00:04:20to listen to his advice, instead of the
00:04:24advice of others, like the head of the CIA
00:04:28or JD Vance or his Secretary
00:04:31of State. The problem is that this
00:04:34war cannot end with a military conclusion. Perhaps
00:04:38it needs a diplomatic solution. I think
00:04:41General Keane is also looking for this,
00:04:45that this war does not end with a military
00:04:48issue and takes on a diplomatic
00:04:51ending. How likely is it that Donald
00:04:54Trump will accept his recommendation and not
00:04:58inadvertently enter another
00:05:00war again?
00:05:05Well, there is an issue that needs to be
00:05:08considered, which is very important, and that
00:05:12is how much military force,
00:05:15equipment, ships, and fighter jets America has
00:05:19if it wants to restart this war. America
00:05:22might want to start the war, but it
00:05:26probably won't be able to enter the war with
00:05:30the same capabilities it had at the beginning of the war, because
00:05:34it also needs to pay attention to China and
00:05:37the war between Russia and Ukraine. It needs to think about
00:05:40how much of its weapons and capabilities it wants to use against
00:05:44Iran. Because then, in connection with China and
00:05:48Russia, it won't be able to do anything, because
00:05:52those countries are much stronger than Iran militarily.
00:05:56If the CNN report is correct about
00:05:59General Dunford's concerns, does this mean that
00:06:03at least a part of Donald Trump's administration has accepted
00:06:06that its military strategy has failed
00:06:09and is not working?
00:06:18The US President hears various
00:06:21ideas and recommendations from different
00:06:24people, and General Keane's recommendations are
00:06:28one of the things he hears. The problem is that
00:06:32a general cannot make policy. Even
00:06:35if he tells the US President that this war is not a good idea,
00:06:39the President can ignore him and say, "No, continue the war." That's why, despite all the advice
00:06:52that the military side has given him, it is up to the President, who is the commander-in-chief, to decide what he will do, and that also depends on what they will tell the President and whether the President values their words more or
00:06:55not. One of the points mentioned
00:06:59in this report was that attacks could
00:07:03be effective if they were widespread and carried
00:07:06out on the ground. This is happening at a
00:07:10time when reports indicate that the US
00:07:13is facing challenges in supplying its
00:07:17weapons. Do you think it will come to a
00:07:20point where the US is forced to launch
00:07:33broader attacks, including a ground invasion?
00:07:36If America is truly seeking a military
00:07:40solution to this war, it must deploy
00:07:44at least 300 to 400 thousand troops
00:07:48into Iranian territory to advance and achieve
00:07:51military successes. I believe such an option
00:07:55is not desirable for the US President,
00:07:58nor for the American people, especially considering
00:08:02that we are on the verge of the November midterm
00:08:05elections in the US. Many people around
00:08:08the President also advise him not to do this.
00:08:12Some analysts suggest that Iran intends
00:08:16to continue the process it is undergoing,
00:08:20meaning the ongoing negotiations that are yielding
00:08:24no results, until the midterm elections,
00:08:27and even if an initial agreement
00:08:30is reached, to continue it for the next
00:08:33phase until after the US midterm
00:08:37elections, after which they can bring about
00:08:41change. How accurate
00:08:48is this argument? The Iranian government has
00:08:51shown from the beginning of the war
00:08:53that the war, in addition to the military
00:08:57domain, also has an intelligence
00:09:00domain. And Iran is
00:09:03well aware that the American people
00:09:07play a decisive role in this war. What
00:09:11feelings they have towards this war is decisive.
00:09:15What the Iranian government can do is
00:09:18to prolong this war until November and the midterm
00:09:22elections and constantly push negotiations into a phase
00:09:26that drags on, because they know that the American
00:09:29people are not happy with the continuation
00:09:32of the war, and if American forces enter the arena and
00:09:36American soldiers are killed on Iranian soil,
00:09:39then the opposition of the American people
00:09:43will double. Jonathan Hackert, former intelligence officer
00:09:47of the US Marine Corps, thank you for being
00:09:51on the program. Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and
00:09:54Pakistan signed a defense pact yesterday
00:09:58in Mecca, stating that an attack on one of
00:10:01these three countries would be considered an attack
00:10:05on all of them. A pact described as the Islamic
00:10:09NATO. They say that this defense pact is not
00:10:13against any specific country. However, hardliners
00:10:16in Iran have said that Iran and the Yemeni
00:10:20Houthis are the targets. Just today, at least
00:10:2310 people were killed
00:10:45in a Houthi attack on the city of Ma'rib in
00:10:49Yemen. In a region where conflict has
00:10:52spread from the Strait of Hormuz to Bab
00:10:55al-Mandab, what does this agreement mean
00:10:59for Iran and its allies? Parham Ghobadi
00:11:02went to investigate this question. The moment
00:11:05of the birth of the Islamic NATO. Saudi
00:11:09Arabia is the largest oil exporter and
00:11:13very wealthy, and Pakistan is the only
00:11:17Muslim country that has nuclear bombs. Is
00:11:20this the Sunni resistance axis after the decline of the Shiite crescent
00:11:26led by Iran in the region? Although Turkey
00:11:29and Saudi Arabia said it is not against
00:11:33any specific country, Tehran has received the
00:11:37message, especially the hardliners. Now,
00:11:40in regional disputes, they quickly want to
00:11:44form an axis and a defense pact,
00:11:47and a tenth of these actions that they
00:11:51are currently taking in competition with the
00:11:55resistance front axis, whose spearhead has
00:11:58always been directed towards Israel and
00:12:02aggressive America, when will it turn towards
00:12:05domestic issues and Hossein Shariatmadari,
00:12:09editor-in-chief of Keyhan newspaper, who was
00:12:12appointed by the former leader of the Islamic
00:12:16Republic, expressed his anger today in an
00:12:20article, especially towards Pakistan. He
00:12:23criticized the country's
00:12:26Prime Minister and said that he once described
00:12:30Donald Trump as an honorable man. He
00:12:33then said that the Mecca defense
00:12:36pact is against Iran and that
00:12:40the pretext of protecting the security of Bab
00:12:43al-Mandab targets the Yemeni Houthis,
00:12:46which ultimately is against Iran.
00:12:50In the end, he concluded that Pakistan,
00:12:53with this identity,
00:12:55is not worthy of mediating between Tehran
00:12:59and Washington. The military relations between
00:13:02Riyadh and Islamabad are not new. Thirteen
00:13:05years ago, the BBC revealed that Saudi
00:13:08Arabia had ordered nuclear bombs from
00:13:11Pakistan. Various sources told the BBC that
00:13:14Saudi Arabia had invested in Pakistan's
00:13:18nuclear weapons program and believed that it
00:13:22could receive nuclear warheads whenever it
00:13:26wanted. In the 1980s, it also bought
00:13:29missiles from China with a range of
00:13:322,500 to 3,000 kilometers and the
00:13:35capability to carry nuclear warheads. The
00:13:39closure of the Strait of Hormuz did not
00:13:42significantly harm Saudi Arabia because it
00:13:46exported its oil through the Red Sea.
00:13:49In recent weeks, Iranian-backed Houthis
00:13:53closed Bab al-Mandab to Saudi ships.
00:13:56Today, in Yemen, the Houthis attacked
00:14:00the positions of the country's official
00:14:02government, which is supported by Saudi Arabia.
00:14:06According to the Yemeni government, they are
00:14:09engaged in several fronts. The proxy
00:14:12war between Iran and Saudi Arabia
00:14:16on Yemeni soil.
00:14:17Bloody clashes
00:14:20while the ink on the Mecca
00:14:24agreement is not yet dry. Serious
00:14:28questions and ambiguities are raised about
00:14:31the effectiveness of this military pact.
00:14:35For example, if Iran and its
00:14:39supported groups attack Saudi Arabia, will
00:14:42Pakistan and Turkey intervene militarily?
00:14:45On the other hand, if Pakistan
00:14:48and India get into a conflict,
00:14:52will Turkey and Saudi Arabia enter
00:15:03the fray? If the answer to these
00:15:07questions is yes, in a volatile
00:15:10region like the
00:15:11Middle East, will
00:15:14this military pact create deterrence or
00:15:17exacerbate tensions? Another important
00:15:21question is whether other countries in
00:15:24the region are also expected to
00:15:27join this Mecca military pact or
00:15:31not, especially those that were targeted
00:15:34by Iranian missiles in the recent
00:15:37war? Does this mean the formation
00:15:41of a regional alliance against Iran?
00:15:45Is the Islamic NATO a product
00:15:49of the success of the Islamic Republic's
00:15:52regional policies or their failure?
00:15:56Parham Ghobadi, BBC.
00:16:00I had a conversation with Kamran Bukhari,
00:16:03strategic affairs analyst and senior
00:16:37researcher at the Middle East Policy Council think tank,
00:16:41and I asked him if we
00:16:45are witnessing a new security architecture.
00:16:48Thank you for inviting me. Yes,
00:16:52all these discussions are about, as
00:16:55you mentioned, a new security architecture
00:16:58in the region. All of this is linked
00:17:02to America's doctrinal strategy. Now, based
00:17:06on the discussion of burden-sharing, as
00:17:09we also saw in Ukraine, Europe
00:17:12has been asked to bear the
00:17:16responsibility for many security issues. Now,
00:17:20in the Middle East, we are
00:17:23seeing the same thing. Turkey, Saudi
00:17:27Arabia, and Turkey have been asked
00:17:31to bear the burden of this
00:17:34security responsibility. Given the complexities
00:17:38that the countries of the region
00:17:42have, and even these three countries
00:17:46in their relations with each other,
00:17:49are we witnessing this process taking
00:17:53shape? I think we're
00:17:56straying a little bit from these
00:17:59realistic discussions and analyzing too
00:18:03hastily. The Islamic world is a
00:18:07very large world, and this
00:18:11region is a very small
00:18:14region called
00:18:17the Middle East or West
00:18:21Asia, a region full of chaos
00:18:24and turmoil. Each of the three
00:18:27countries has many disagreements among
00:18:31themselves that they need to resolve.
00:18:35In addition to all this, they
00:18:38need to work with Israel, because
00:18:42Israel is a major force in
00:18:45the region. Then they need to
00:18:49manage Iran, an Iran that
00:18:52is itself currently in a state
00:18:56of uncertainty. We don't know what
00:18:59will happen to the Iranian regime.
00:19:03Will we see long-term chaos in
00:19:06Iran? Will we see more
00:19:10stability? It's unclear. But
00:19:14in the final analysis.
00:19:18This issue has been worked on
00:19:21for a long time. The US
00:19:24has finally changed its strategic
00:19:28position for some time now.
00:19:31It was not limited to the
00:19:35Trump administration; it also dates
00:19:39back to the Biden administration. We
00:19:43gradually moved towards this point.
00:19:46The new US national security
00:19:49strategy, which was published on September
00:19:535th, and then another one on
00:19:57January 23rd under the title
00:20:01of defense security, stated
00:20:04in all these documents that the
00:20:11US wants to distance itself from ground wars and ground conflicts in East Asia and not expose itself to the economic damage associated with these wars, and it wants its allies, especially its Arab allies in the region, to do this. This stems from that issue.
00:20:14Did the war between Iran and
00:20:18the US and Israel accelerate
00:20:21this process? Yes, it certainly
00:20:24did, but I don't think it
00:20:28was the driving force or the
00:20:31cause of this
00:20:33issue. The disagreements
00:20:37between Israel and Turkey were also
00:20:40not the main cause, but this
00:20:43also had some impact on the
00:20:47issue. However, regarding what you
00:20:50mentioned about the US, the US
00:20:54is currently more involved in the
00:20:57region than ever before, and it
00:21:01still seems that due to its
00:21:04position regarding the war with
00:21:07Iran, it is forced to remain
00:21:10in the region. And even now,
00:21:13it has bases in countries in
00:21:17the region, including Saudi Arabia. Therefore,
00:21:20perhaps this tripartite pact will be
00:21:24interpreted as these countries gradually
00:21:27wanting to distance themselves from the
00:21:31US. There will be
00:21:35no distance between these countries and
00:21:38the US. These are close allies
00:21:41of the US. Pakistan was one
00:21:45of the countries that mediated between
00:21:49the US and Iran. Saudi
00:21:51Arabia is a
00:21:54close ally of the US. Turkey
00:21:57is also a part of NATO.
00:22:01There is no intention to create
00:22:04any distance between them. What you
00:22:08are saying about the US needing
00:22:12to remain in the region is not that the
00:22:15US will suddenly completely withdraw from
00:22:19the region. This is a process,
00:22:22a gradual process. When
00:22:25these countries take on more responsibilities
00:22:29for regional stability and security,
00:22:33the US will gradually reduce
00:22:36its presence in the region. This
00:22:39will be a managed process,
00:22:42not an overnight one. As
00:22:57and the US and American bases
00:23:01are concerned, the US did not
00:23:04think that these bases would be
00:23:08targeted by Iranian attacks. After all,
00:23:11these military bases are part of
00:23:15the past security and military architecture
00:23:19of the US in the region. In this
00:23:23era where we are entering the
00:23:26era of drones
00:23:28and artificial intelligence and new military
00:23:31equipment, we will witness new military
00:23:35strategies that are no longer solely
00:23:39reliant on physical military bases.
00:23:42I think we will witness a
00:23:46much larger shift than simply the
00:23:50conclusion of a security and defense
00:23:52pact between three countries. You referred
00:23:56to the position of each of
00:23:58these three countries, but when they
00:24:01are in a situation where they
00:24:04have to implement what they have
00:24:08put on paper, how do you
00:24:12think they can do that? What
00:24:15will their effectiveness be, especially
00:24:19since there are concerns right now?
00:24:22For example, we are witnessing Houthi
00:24:26attacks on Saudi Arabia increasing.
00:24:29And will this not create a
00:24:33problem where these countries, for example,
00:24:36the groups supported by Iran, will
00:24:40perceive that Turkey and Pakistan have
00:24:43also become part of this front
00:24:47and will expand their attacks?
00:24:51I think all these actors are
00:24:53well aware that they should not
00:24:57stand against such an alliance or
00:25:00pact. The fact that the Houthis
00:25:04are separately attacking some Saudi Arabian
00:25:07resources, well, this has a cost,
00:25:11and the Houthis are also ready
00:25:14to bear these costs. They have
00:25:17accepted them in the past. But
00:25:20now that Pakistan and Turkey are
00:25:24entering the scene, of course, it's
00:25:27not something that we say will happen
00:25:31tomorrow. It will take a long
00:25:34time to be implemented. However,
00:25:38if Iran wants to use its
00:25:42Shiite militias or the Houthis
00:25:45to do something, this is a
00:25:48bit inaccurate, because you cannot
00:25:52equate them with Hezbollah, because
00:25:55necessarily, none of them want
00:25:59to fight both Israel and the
00:26:02US, as well as Saudi
00:26:05Arabia and Turkey simultaneously. Do
00:26:09you think that Iran should change
00:26:12its security strategy, especially since we
00:26:16witnessed today that some media and
00:26:20some officials in Iran reacted negatively
00:26:23to it? For example, one
00:26:27member of parliament said that this
00:26:31will not bring security to Riyadh.
00:26:34Of course, Iranians are known for
00:26:38their intelligence operations. They spent 40
00:26:41years strengthening these types of
00:26:45intelligence and information distortion operations. I
00:26:48don't pay much attention to these
00:26:51words and issues.
00:30:22a major environmental threat that the
00:30:26closure of the Strait of Hormuz
00:30:29poses to the ecosystem of the
00:30:33Persian Gulf, the Sea of Oman,
00:30:36and other parts
00:30:37of the world.
00:30:40According to them, invasive species of
00:30:44marine life cling to the hull
00:30:48of any ship
00:30:50that remains motionless
00:30:52in the water. These not only
00:30:56are difficult to remove but also