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00:00:00in
00:00:03in
00:00:09of
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00:00:21of
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00:01:07me
00:01:08of of
00:01:16of
00:01:17of of of
00:01:23of of
00:01:23of
00:01:50with perhaps one
00:01:51of the sad stories coming from Niger said where we saw
00:01:55of 37 people died in
00:01:57of custody and so today the Nigeria security and civil defense
00:02:01core paraded, it suspended nine said
00:02:05and commandant vier
00:02:06suberu and other officers linked to the deaths of 37
00:02:09people in the cause of custody at his national
00:02:13headquarters in soka abuja as authorities intensify
00:02:16of investigations into one
00:02:18of the country's most serious recent cases of deaths in
00:02:21security custody. the offices were on duty
00:02:25or connected with the arrest, investigation and
00:02:29detention, the victims who were amongst 67 people reportedly
00:02:33detained flowing anti-illegal mining
00:02:36operations around the wushishi and lukuto areas
00:02:40of niger state on the 15th and 16th of September
00:02:4337 were subsequently found dead. the federal government
00:02:47suspended the state
00:02:48of commandant and 20 other NSCDC personnel while
00:02:53of interior minister or jojou as constituted a
00:02:5710 member independent committee with two weeks to
00:03:00establish the circumstances
00:03:02of the arrest and detention and determine the cause
00:03:05of the deaths and identify any
00:03:07in responsibility, complicity, negligence or
00:03:11misconduct. presidentubu has equally weted in and has
00:03:14ordered a comprehensive and transparent investigation,
00:03:18insisting that suspected criminal activity does not remove
00:03:22detened's right to life
00:03:24of and humane treatment. the precise cause
00:03:27of the death remains under investigation. mean
00:03:30of allegations from survivors and families about overcrowding and
00:03:34conditions in the detention
00:03:38a facility. 37 people went into government
00:03:42custody alive today. the central question remains,
00:03:45how did
00:03:47of of they die earlier? we saw the NSCDC national headquarters
00:03:50me here in Abuja and the suspended 90 state commander suber
00:03:54of and vier and other officers linked to the incident
00:03:57of paraded before journal is scrutiny. depins over the deaths
00:04:01of the 37 people detained following operations against suspected
00:04:05illegal mining in ninger
00:04:07me state. 20 other NSCDC personnel have been suspended,
00:04:11a 10 member independent federal investigating committee has been
00:04:15of giving two weeks to establish
00:04:17of what happened
00:04:17and the national human rights commission has also uh coming to the
00:04:21conversation and has
00:04:22of become of of a preliminary investigation where calls grow for
00:04:26of independent autopsies and accountability for any... found
00:04:30culpable, but there are critical questions in there, beyond the
00:04:34officers on duty, what were the conditions inside the detention
00:04:38facility? what did the authorities know and when? what road
00:04:42did the ninger
00:04:42of state crack down on illegal mining or
00:04:46of uh operation play
00:04:47of and of could these deaths have been prevented? this was
00:04:51moment where they were paraded and let
00:04:53me allow you to listen to the
00:04:55me reasons for the parade,
00:04:58in a swift and
00:04:59of decisive. operation conducted in conjunction with the
00:05:03comandant general special intelligence court, all officers and
00:05:07men
00:05:07of the major state command links to these
00:05:10of gross misconduct as scens of on the 17th September
00:05:142026 been taken into protective
00:05:17custody at the national headquarters here in Abuja where
00:05:21they are undergoing rigorous interrogation and
00:05:24administrative disciplinary action so as to make them
00:05:28available for the presidential independent investigation
00:05:32committee and other investigation panels for further
00:05:35investigation and possible
00:05:38persecution.
00:05:41well let's some more insights uh the chief security officer
00:05:45and executive governor of ninja state
00:05:48honorable uh he comes himself former
00:05:51governor muhammad governor of ninger state is
00:05:55live for us on the program from the capital of
00:06:15from the uh Niger state government point
00:06:18of view, can you summarize to us what really
00:06:21happened? uh, honestly
00:06:25speaking, um, the United States government or its
00:06:29agencies were not aware of any
00:06:31arrest and we were not informed about any
00:06:34arrests at the illegal mining side, although the
00:06:38site that is in question is a housing estate called the
00:06:42mi wushishi housing estate is passed to the state
00:06:45university at university and that place
00:06:49has witnessed lot of artisanal minors and
00:06:53illegal miners all working there and on that
00:06:57faithful day unfortunately uh the NSDC
00:07:01Niger state chapter made arrest and took them to
00:07:04custody and they put them in their custody and that
00:07:08resulted to uh the death these people so woke up that
00:07:11morning. to the news that
00:07:1437 of those that were arrested died and
00:07:18again from the revelations withganad lot
00:07:22of people attributed it to the uh
00:07:25the suffocation that there were so many in one cell because there
00:07:29were actually three double three cells where the people in the first cell
00:07:33and second cell didn't have any issue in this other cell they
00:07:37were already inmates in that cell before they brought this new other people to add to
00:07:41them and that resulted to their death. now ,
00:07:45two questions are very clear, suffocation can be one of it, which is
00:07:48mostly the the the direction. however,
00:07:52because it's an illegal mining site and mining is
00:07:56also attributed to lot of toxins and also poisoning, and we are not
00:08:00ruling out any these reasons.
00:08:04however, we want the authority to the people to be very patient with the
00:08:08authority, forensic experts are
00:08:10ground, and are doing what they need to do
00:08:14to give us analysis of what they found, so for now this
00:08:18is what we know about that uh, since you went on the ground
00:08:22yourself to inspect the cell, can you describe to us
00:08:25governor what you saw, what do you make of that holding
00:08:29facility uh that described as
00:08:32detention, mean from as a
00:08:36former member the house and and now a
00:08:39governor, how would you describe the situation? in
00:08:43the cell, honestly speaking, the cell is not
00:08:47an old facility, in fact it's just their new office,
00:08:51they just moved into that office, not quite long, and the facility
00:08:54is practically very new. now the
00:08:58issue the state the cell, when we got
00:09:02there, i saw lot of dead copses on the floor and
00:09:05outside, and some had blood stains in their nose, in
00:09:09their mouth, and some had lot of b. and kind of
00:09:13bruises on their body and some even have some cuts on their
00:09:16body you know and that uh made me to ask them to take
00:09:20the state much worry because they were already lying on the floor and
00:09:24those that were still breathing were now rushed to the hospital where they were
00:09:28attended to all them have survived uh some are still in
00:09:32hospital though uh and uh that is what we know about it but the
00:09:36cell is not an old cell but the size the cell to
00:09:40take that amount of people would need uh probably
00:09:43statistics or uh science
00:09:45you know to prove whether it is uh it has capacity take 100 people
00:09:49or 50 people or even 30
00:10:03and there's something very disturbing governor
00:10:06about those who survive and they were recounting their ordeal
00:10:10uh one the survive. was uh alleged
00:10:14that an unidentified substance was spread
00:10:18before detinies began collapsing. what evidence does
00:10:22your government presently have about what happened inside? that
00:10:25cell
00:10:27so the autopsy will prove that and also the forensic will prove
00:10:30that,
00:10:31you know, and that is what I said at the beginning that we cannot rule out
00:10:35poisoning, we cannot rule out exposure to
00:10:39dangerous and hazardous chemicals, everything can be
00:10:42possible, but from what we got from the recount of some the survivors
00:10:46is that kind of spray was spread there and people started
00:10:50fenting and they were asking for help gasping for air
00:10:53and uh nobody attended. to them, some them said they had to take their
00:10:57urine to survive because they were testy, some had to put their nose and
00:11:01mouths through the window uh to get ventilation, all these
00:11:04are are are position
00:11:08of or I mean report from those people who survived and uh
00:11:12the security agencies like the DSS, the
00:11:15police, the other agencies are also investigating that
00:11:19to assassin the truth, some that were in the cell didn't even know
00:11:22anything, cannot remember anything because "they were probably
00:11:26fainted or they
00:11:28had you know
00:11:29uh loss of memory at that point
00:11:31in time, so uh these are some the issues and some the people in the cell who are
00:11:35still in the mortuari were not actually miners, they were detained
00:11:38there prior to the uh arrest
00:11:42these uh uh miners that were added to them and they also
00:11:45died, so some them like you said and
00:11:49not even related to uh their offenses and not even
00:11:53related to - illegal
00:11:56mining uh, but
00:11:59governor, any way, do
00:12:03you for moment step away and look and say,
00:12:06okay, maybe we share any these responsibility,
00:12:10or maybe you these deaths could have been
00:12:12avoided, yes
00:12:15definitely, you know, um,
00:12:19I'm just a chief security officer the state by mouth, the
00:12:22NSDC don't report to me, "the police don't report to
00:12:26me uh, the military don't report to me, they report to the
00:12:29center, so um, we don't have much
00:12:33control about uh feral government facilities, especially
00:12:37detention centers and uh
00:12:39and they
00:12:39are also police stations and even uh civil defense stations
00:12:43uh, but when we have issues or complaints by civil society
00:12:47organizations, we step in and we try to
00:12:51intervene, but at most most of times nobody even
00:12:55knows who is arrested unless there are complaints that are brought in before ministry
00:12:59of justice or ministry of woman affairs on unlawful detention or
00:13:02otherwise or the court of laws give
00:13:05orders, but in this sense
00:13:09i mean give us the true picture of
00:13:12things uh we imagine that the United State government has
00:13:16an illegal mining task force is that
00:13:19right? no we have ministry of
00:13:23uh resources, we don't have illegal mining tax
00:13:27force, they are civil servants, all they do, once they are
00:13:31certain there is an illegal mining a place, they report to
00:13:34NSDC who has the perview to regulate mining
00:13:38and also make arrests at mining sites, so
00:13:42you're not any joint operation or effort by the security
00:13:46agencies, which we understand includes the NSCDC, the
00:13:50police, the DSL, state officials and some local government
00:13:53officials, you don't you're not aware that the federal government runs
00:13:57that kind of collaboration? no, it doesn't
00:14:01happen, it doesn't happen. f government does
00:14:04not, fer ministry of minds does
00:14:08not have any tax force that is jointly uh working together with
00:14:12any subnational, any subnational does not work with them, they
00:14:15even the licenses are not issued uh with the consent
00:14:19the uh subnationals, they are done with the consent the host
00:14:23communities, the subnationals just in between, so when you give
00:14:27licenses, even if they are legal licenses to a minor, i don't
00:14:31know, he goes to the host communities, the traditional institution or
00:14:34the family who owns the land will give consent for money to take place,
00:14:38however, when we see those kind of activities, we send the
00:14:42ministry to go and confirm, verify documentation, and
00:14:46if it is well, we will now ask them to have responsible mining,
00:14:50and when i say responsible mining is to be able to talk to the companies who are
00:14:54mining to say: "these people need drinking water, you know you're going to pollute
00:14:58their water, we need to see how you are going to build uh schools for
00:15:02them, provide social responsibilities that have to
00:15:05do with elevating the
00:15:09the the the community, and at the end the day you will have to write
00:15:13an agreement that you're going to reclaim back the land that you have dog
00:15:17so that we don't have f pitfalls and also uh sink
00:15:21holes, so you're saying that mining in..."
00:15:25just state on in your own territory as a
00:15:27governor is beyond your control, you
00:15:31don't have control, you don't have the powers and the
00:15:35consent the state government is not even. say that any
00:15:39economic mining activities a state, is that what you're
00:15:42saying? the constitution is very clear, it does not
00:15:45involve the state government, it is exclusively
00:15:48an executive issue, the executive
00:15:52arm of government will issue licenses to who they wish to
00:15:56give to, however, before mining is
00:15:59started, communities, the host communities are allowed to give
00:16:03consent, and this when these consents are given, you may not even know because
00:16:07post committee may be very far away and it could be a traditional institution or
00:16:11family or uh
00:16:13business. but what happened to your
00:16:17previous crackdown on illegal mining? because now when you say
00:16:21that uh you don't have control but you as a
00:16:25governor now can stop them from uh
00:16:29it's it's kind of very interesting scenario
00:16:32that we don't have control but when
00:16:36you for example this this particular place in question, it's in
00:16:40housing estate, mi us housing estate, and when the
00:16:44citizens and occupants of that estate came out in numbers to
00:16:47complain about the activities the illegal miners, some them even
00:16:51bring down their fences and their houses, some them even their soccerways are
00:16:55compromised and their security is being compromised, we have no
00:16:59option than to talk to the nsdc and the security
00:17:02agency to say you need to interven, you know, and that's only thing
00:17:06we can do. but sometimes we go as far as reaching out to the minister of mineral
00:17:10resources say minister of mineral resources this licenses
00:17:13situation is bringing in security uh to our people you need to
00:17:17also look at them and he sends uh immediately he responses the
00:17:21ministry will respond through their mine officers here to go and look at
00:17:25it but I can tell you even this morning there was an upr
00:17:29between illegal miners at the same site and the security
00:17:33agencies because they still insist they want to continue mining
00:17:36there but In 2023 you suspended
00:17:39mining activities, at the time you said
00:17:42880 registered mining companies and
00:17:46cooperatives exist in the stead, only
00:17:48261 had reported
00:17:52for profiling uh, two years later, why is
00:17:56illegal mining still sufficiently wide spread to
00:17:59require mass arrest? okay, you
00:18:03see the difference between legal mining is that you have data.
00:18:07illegal mining, there's no data, there's no database, so these people
00:18:11who are licensed will come forward for profiling,
00:18:15because we want to know who is mining a united state, and that
00:18:18is because we need to maintain the security of our land,
00:18:22however, the people we are talking about are not just artisanal miners,
00:18:26but the artisan and operating in illegal spaces, these
00:18:30spaces are not allowed for them to do, probably
00:18:33somebody youter state is endowed, we have alluvian gold every...
00:18:37when it rains heavily you can pick uh gold on the street that
00:18:41is given so these people will find a place where you have
00:18:45huge quantity of this alloivian deposit and they would try
00:18:49to start mining and this is why they are illegal
00:18:53because they are not registered by law they are not registered with the association they
00:18:57don't even have a directory there's no database to ascertain who who
00:19:01and who and let me reiterate something to you because
00:19:04these people have died in custody of civil
00:19:08defense, that is why the upr is high, every day
00:19:12miners are buried illegally, illegal miners are buried in
00:19:16different minds across this country and in niger state, and every day we have
00:19:20report of people who die in sink holes because they have gone to
00:19:23mind illegally and
00:19:25unprofessionally. let ask you, have you
00:19:29identified the owner of this site in question?
00:19:33it is a housing estate, it's not a site, it's not a legal mining site,
00:19:37there is no body that has license to mine on that land, it
00:19:40is housing estate, mi wushishi housing
00:19:44estate, let tell you something, for example, gwarimpa housing
00:19:48estate, will anybody have mining license in
00:19:51gwarimpa or first
00:19:53that? so the question
00:19:57is that what what we understand is that some these
00:20:00boys that are being used for illegal mining
00:20:04or even the legal mining uh the... the
00:20:08licenses are owned by someone, even in the legal one, there is someone
00:20:12who is uh, who owns who is
00:20:15direct, who controls, who is benefiting from the
00:20:19from the activities, have you been able to investigate
00:20:23who controls or who is benefiting from that one which you call
00:20:27illegal in the in that house, let me somebody has
00:20:31license, cadestral unit and he's operating
00:20:34there, he has a right to employ artisanal mind. has to work for
00:20:38him, that is direct labor, if he doesn't have machinery to do
00:20:42that, that is within his parview, because that land has been seated
00:20:46to him by law, he has license to operate mining activities on that.
00:20:50line, however, if a line is there and nobody
00:20:53has line sense and you go there, you are already encroaching
00:20:57on private property or government reserve, and if you do that is
00:21:01illegal, whether you're using machinery or whether you're using going artisanal
00:21:05way, it's illegal, so legality in mining starts to do with
00:21:09first line sensing, who owns the line
00:21:13sense, who owns the land, the illegality is
00:21:16that who - who gave permission and why
00:21:20did you go without permission? give us an
00:21:24idea, governor, because your state um
00:21:27benefit from uh, and i say when i say
00:21:31your state benefit meaning that
00:21:33there are a lot of activities of minor activities happening in
00:21:37your state, however the money literally goes above
00:21:41your head as a governor and as a formal law maker,
00:21:45what do you think is right? we fought a lot of
00:21:48battle uh... when the petroleum industry act before
00:21:52it came into refer and before it was passed to law and lot of
00:21:56experience and lot of knowledge taken out of what
00:21:59state uh the federating unit and even the host
00:22:03communities have experienced a lot go to many states in the
00:22:07north central and in the northwestern state are
00:22:10experiencing insecurity because these
00:22:14mining activities from your experience what are your worries
00:22:18about the growing mining? activities which sometimes
00:22:21grow uncontrolled and we understand that some the high and the
00:22:25mighty are the ones behind some these
00:22:27activities, so my only my major concern
00:22:31here is the safety first, safety, the
00:22:35mining practices here are primitive and there's no
00:22:38safety and there's no uh uh protection
00:22:42and secondly there is no responsible mining regime to
00:22:46understand the quantum or the quantity of minds that are taking. from
00:22:50our country or from our land, thirdly,
00:22:53yes, federal government pulls every resources into the
00:22:57fac and share to the entire subnationals and the federal
00:23:00government, and part of it is part of mineral
00:23:03resources, but we don't, we cannot assertain the
00:23:07amount of money or the quantum of gold or the quaries they
00:23:11make, because when you say mining, people uh leave it to only gold, even
00:23:14quarry of stones from construction companies that they use in in
00:23:18building road is is uh it's mining, even uh uh
00:23:22borrow piece they create is mining, so mining is very, very vast,
00:23:26but what we are talking about, the one that has become a minus, there a lot of children have
00:23:30fallen out of school,
00:23:32that they don't go to school, you can see the age range of those people that
00:23:35died between 14 and 20, and that speaks a
00:23:39volume to say it is,
00:23:41it is negative development to our people, because uh
00:23:45the parents will support it, they feel you you make more money every
00:23:49day ' with an ounce of gold you know you
00:23:52can end more money and people who are the middleman who are mopping
00:23:55this thing are out there and this thing is
00:23:59uh it's a big company
00:24:00now it's a big business that gold business and gold refining and
00:24:04gold mining in Nigeria has become a very very big
00:24:08distance so the most important thing the best thing we can do from the
00:24:12point of law is to go to the constitution and look at the
00:24:16law that established the mining act and to make it concurrently with
00:24:20here the federal government and state government will work
00:24:23together concurrently in managing this things and this will
00:24:27give you know regime of responsible mining and people can take
00:24:30responsibility with the state police coming on board you will not have
00:24:34issue where a governor or any federal agency would
00:24:38come and make arrest without the governor knowing and this will
00:24:42bring responsibility to what we are talking about so it's not a blame
00:24:46game today we are just talking about realities we know that gold.
00:24:50mining in Niger state has become habitual, the
00:24:53United report on Shuroro local government and local government
00:24:57says by 2027, there will not be a single male
00:25:01child in grade eight, that
00:25:04is js one, grade seven, you know, because
00:25:08all them are into animal mining and all them have never classrooms and
00:25:12they are not in schools and this is a problem for us, yeah,
00:25:16that that brings me to the question exactly,
00:25:19the one and the disturbing pictures of minors on
00:25:23these sites, as a governor, what are you doing about
00:25:27it? so
00:25:31so you see in between the devil and the and the red
00:25:35sea, because as a governor, yes it's in my
00:25:38state, as a governor I cannot just go and order uh
00:25:42police or military to start shooting people or arresting people as a
00:25:46governor, I can only make advocacy, but these people or...
00:25:50because they've tested the mining money, they cannot leave
00:25:54that side, we need decisive action,
00:25:56you know, we need an executive order from the presidency or from the
00:26:00ministry of mineral resources to ban mining in certain locations
00:26:04where we have seen their problematic, once that is done, it can be
00:26:08enforced, but but I mean, because
00:26:11some the minors are saying that they being
00:26:15shot out shot at frequently by some these
00:26:19authorities, and I'm I'm it to be concerning if
00:26:23you say you are not aware that this kind of scenario plays out in the
00:26:26state uh, but it I say, I'm not
00:26:30aware say that, I'm saying. that i can, i don't have
00:26:34control over what they do, no, but but these are
00:26:38children uh on protected under the child rights
00:26:42act, they have to be in school, the they've got to be off the
00:26:45street, but if they are being uh allowed
00:26:49to go into this mining side, this minor, the law is very
00:26:52exp is very explicit about what minors
00:26:56should do and should not a father who takes his child out of school
00:27:00and takes him to the mining side, uh who do you
00:27:04blame or mother who backs a child at the back and goes
00:27:08to a mining side and sh let tell you the amount of energy
00:27:12they dissipate in this mining a business if
00:27:16they had put half of it in farming they will do better
00:27:20local government cost local government used to be one the biggest local government that
00:27:24is agrarian but they've abandoned farming for
00:27:28mining it's a mess it's a miness you
00:27:31know and there must be deliberate, but governor, are you able to,
00:27:35the law has criminalized it, except that we need to
00:27:39enforce it, and I know that there
00:27:42are sometimes we've seen government uh, in some other
00:27:45climbs, if you don't send your child to
00:27:48school, it's a criminal, you could go to jail, I mean,
00:27:52are you going to go the extra man, because this particular
00:27:56incident that happened with this 37 people dead is
00:28:00also supposed to teach us some lesson ' perhaps if your government is going
00:28:03to take it a bit more seriously to say, if you don't have your
00:28:07child in school, you are going to be in trouble. are you able to make that commitment,
00:28:11governor? yeah, we are going to look at that, because it's a
00:28:15very, very, very tall order, it's a very tall order. niger state is
00:28:1810% the total size of Nigeria, everywhere in Niger
00:28:22state is mineral resources. this mining and
00:28:26poaching and logging, it's a
00:28:30serious business. United State has the... largest
00:28:33concentration of forests and trees in in in west africa and
00:28:37people are there doing logging so mining and also is not just
00:28:41about digging the ground, even cutting trees,
00:28:44you know, even making charcoal, even people
00:28:48killing animals and selling their horns and hooves and everything,
00:28:52all these things are happening, because governor, these are some the things
00:28:55that crosses insecurity in your state, you're
00:28:59right, you're right, it it's a industry, you
00:29:03have expatrates from other country in our
00:29:07domain operating, funding these activities, and
00:29:11you are limited because you are constrained, the military know
00:29:15about it, the DSS knows about it, the police know about it, they are
00:29:18constrained, because these expatries have line
00:29:22senses, they have line senses and this
00:29:26falls of war is taken through our ports and shipt out of this
00:29:29country, so it's not about the governor, the governor... is limited to
00:29:33only probably his cabinet, the governor is just a chief security officer
00:29:37of his state by mouth, it's rhetorical, there is no power, he
00:29:41can't give any order, but governor, does your
00:29:45state have investment in mining in your
00:29:47state? very well, the state government has
00:29:51investment company in mining and we have been looking forward uh
00:29:54looking looking for people to invest in mining, we've gone and travel out
00:29:58this world and we are inviting people to come so that they can set up
00:30:02industries that will do this mining properly
00:30:06and that is why was emphasizing on the responsible mining regime
00:30:09where you have companies that will come and do the proper thing, give
00:30:13gears, protective gears to people, employ the right set of people, take
00:30:17the data the people and also be able to promote people to go
00:30:21to school, even if you are mining you be able to go to school and they promote you,
00:30:25if you have a child and you
00:30:26are a minor, your children will go to school, so many other things, accommodations
00:30:30will be provided, portable drinking. will be given, medical assistance will be
00:30:34given, scholarships will be given, like in oil, like oil
00:30:38mining, like the way the oil companies are doing in Niger delta, this is what we are
00:30:42looking for, are you able to make any money, are you making any money from mining
00:30:46yet based on investment your said is having
00:30:49in, not serious money,
00:30:53no serious money yet, we are only putting the infrastructures right now,
00:30:56infrastructure, let tell you the investment in