Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:41GOOD EVENING. EVENING.
00:00:43MY NAME IS WINNIE AND I'M THE DEAN OF THIS GREAT CATHEDRAL.
00:00:47AND IT IS MY HONOR TO WELCOME
00:00:50YOU ON THE BEHALF OF. THE COMMUNITY OF SAINT JOHN, THE
00:00:53DIVINE I WANT TO THANK OUR PROGRAM TEAM EVENTS TEAM.
00:00:56YOU'VE PROBABLY SEEN THEM AROUND. I THINK LAURA'S HERE.
00:00:59AND EMMA HERE AND MIKE IS HERE AND OTHERS THAT HAVE HELPED TO
00:01:02PUT THIS EVENING TOGETHER.
00:01:04AND I'VE DONE A WONDERFUL JOB AND I SEE AND HOPE THAT YOU'VE
00:01:08HAD A WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE SO FAR. THERE'S A LOT OF FOOD. SO PLEASE EAT IT.
00:01:11THERE'S LOTS TO DRINK PLEASE DO CONSUME.
00:01:14WE ARE SO HONORED AT THE CATHEDRAL TO HOST THIS
00:01:18PARTICULAR EVENT AND VERY GRATEFUL TO HORTON FOR BRINGING IT TO US.
00:01:21I WAS JUST HEARING AND HAVE HEARD IN THE PAST ABOUT THE
00:01:24GREAT HEROISM IN THIS CATHEDRAL
00:01:26BY ITS LEADERSHIP, BY ITS BISHOP
00:01:28AND DEAN AND CONGREGATION CLERGY DURING THE MCCARTHY ERA.
00:01:32IT WAS A BRAVE PLACE AND WE SEEK TO BE A BRAVE PLACE AGAIN.
00:01:35AND IT HAS BEEN A BRAVE PLACE THROUGH MANY TIMES IN HISTORY
00:01:38AND UNFORTUNATELY, AND THIS IS TRUE MOST TIMES, THESE ARE TIMES
00:01:41THAT REQUIRE COURAGE. SO I AM SO GRATEFUL THAT YOU
00:01:45WERE HERE AND THAT WE GET TO HEAR THIS CONVERSATION.
00:01:49AND THEN I'M GOING TO CLAIM AND THORNTON, AS A MEMBER OF OUR
00:01:53CONGREGATION. SO HIS EVENT HAS ANYONE HERE FOR
00:01:56ANYONE HERE IS THIS IS YOUR FIRST TIME AT THE CATHEDRAL.
00:01:58WILL YOU CLAP YOUR HANDS.
00:02:01IF YOU'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE, WILL
00:02:04YOU CLAP YOUR HANDS HANDS.
00:02:09THAT'S NOT WHAT USUALLY WHAT USUALLY AT EVENTS AT OUR
00:02:12CATHEDRAL, THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE HAVE NEVER BEEN HERE BEFORE.
00:02:14SO THIS IS SOMETHING TO ME ABOUT WHAT OUR VALUES ARE AND WHAT OUR COMMUNITY IS.
00:02:18SO THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE WITH US FOR THIS IMPORTANT CONVERSATION.
00:02:22AND IF YOU'RE NEW, WHOEVER YOU ARE AND WHATEVER YOUR LIFE HAS
00:02:25BEEN, KNOW THAT YOU'RE ALWAYS WELCOME HERE. WELCOME TO THE CATHEDRAL
00:02:31CATHEDRAL. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
00:02:33DEAN VARGHESE, FOR YOUR WELCOME
00:02:36AND YOUR WITNESS GOOD EVENING.
00:02:40I'M ANNE THORNTON, VICE PROVOST AND UNIVERSITY LIBRARIAN AT,
00:02:44COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY. AND ON OF THE LEHMAN CENTER FOR
00:02:48AMERICAN HISTORY, A COLLABORATION BETWEEN LIBRARIES
00:02:50AND THE DEPARTMENT OF HISTORY.
00:02:52I'M HONORED TO WELCOME YOU TO CONFRONTING MCCARTHYISM,
00:02:58GENERATIONAL LESSONS FROM FAMILIES WHO RESISTED RED SCARE.
00:03:01WE ARE SO TO BE HOSTED TONIGHT
00:03:05BY CATHEDRAL OF SAINT JOHN THE DIVINE AS, A CO-SPONSOR OF THIS EVENT.
00:03:08AND I WOULD LIKE TO EXTEND MY GRATITUDE TO THE STAFF HERE FOR
00:03:12THEIR WORK ON TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.
00:03:18WE ARE ALSO PLEASED TO BE
00:03:21PARTNERING WITH C-SPAN'S AMERICA AND HISTORY TV, WHICH WILL BE
00:03:25AIRING SPECIAL EVENT AT A LATER DATE.
00:03:29MCCARTHY ISM REPRESENTS A CHALLENGING, CONSEQUENTIAL
00:03:32CHAPTER IN PUBLIC LIFE CAREERS
00:03:36WERE DISRUPTED. FAMILIES CAME UNDER AND PUBLIC
00:03:40DEBATE ACROSS GOVERNMENT, THE
00:03:42ARTS AND UNIVERSITIES.
00:03:45THE TERM ITSELF ASSOCIATED WITH JOSEPH MCCARTHY HAS COME TO
00:03:49DESCRIBE THE PERIOD WHEN CONCERNS ABOUT NATIONAL SECURITY
00:03:52PLACED SIGNIFIED CONSTRAIN ON
00:03:54CIVIL LIBERTIES. IT REMAINS AN IMPORTANT
00:03:58REFERENCE POINT AS WE REFLECT ON
00:04:02ENDURING QUESTIONS ABOUT FREEDOM
00:04:03OF EXPRESSION POLITICAL FEAR AND
00:04:06DEMOCRATIC RESILIENCE.
00:04:09WHAT MAKES TONIGHT A ESPECIALLY REMARKABLE IS THAT NO ONE HAS
00:04:13BROUGHT THESE INDIVIDUAL
00:04:15TOGETHER AS A GROUP TO REFLECT COLLECTIVELY ON THEIR FAMILY'S
00:04:19EXPERIENCE, SAYS THE CONVERSATION COULD NOT BE MORE
00:04:23TIMELY IN THE COURSE OF ORGANIZING THIS PROGRAM, WE
00:04:26BECAME INCREASINGLY EAGER BRING TOGETHER THESE REMARKABLE PEOPLE
00:04:30FROM A HERETOFORE UNRECOGNIZED COMMUNITY.
00:04:32THEY ARE AN INVALUABLE RESOURCE FOR THINKING ABOUT THE LONG THAT
00:04:36INFORM OUR CURRENT AND ABOUT HOW
00:04:40FEAR AND COURAGE SPAN
00:04:44GENERATIONS COLUMBIA'S LIBRARIES ARE COMMITTED TO PRESERVING THE
00:04:47RECORDS OF THIS ERA SO THAT HISTORIANS CAN CONTINUE TO
00:04:51INTERPRET THEM. THOSE RECORDS INCLUDE,
00:04:54DOCUMENTS, CORRESPONDENCE, ORAL
00:04:57HISTORIES, AND CULTURAL WORKS
00:04:59THAT ALLOW US TO RECORD HONESTLY WITH THE PAST.
00:05:03TONIGHT'S CONVERSATION ANIMATES
00:05:04THAT ARCHIVAL WITH LIVED MEMORY
00:05:08ON THE BACK OF YOUR PROGRAM'S. YOU'LL FIND A SPACE TO WRITE A
00:05:12QUESTION FOR TONIGHT'S PANELISTS.
00:05:14IF YOU WISH AND IF YOU'LL HOLD
00:05:17THOSE UP WHEN YOU HAVE QUESTION READY. ONE OF OUR STAFF WILL COME BY
00:05:21AND COLLECT.
00:05:22WE'LL BE GATHERING AND WE'LL
00:05:25SHARE THEM WITH THE MODERATOR FOR THE Q&A PORTION OF THE PROGRAM.
00:05:29WE THANK FOR BEING HERE AND FOR
00:05:32JOINING US IN THIS DIALOG. NOW, I'M THRILLED TO INTRODUCE
00:05:36EVENING'S PANELISTS.
00:05:38MICHAEL MEEROPOL IS AN
00:05:41ECONOMIST, AUTHOR, ACTIVIST.
00:05:43HE TAUGHT ECONOMIC ARCS FOR 38
00:05:46YEARS AT THE WESTERN ENGLAND COLLEGE. NOW UNIVERSITY.
00:05:49MEEROPOL HAS WITH HIS BROTHER ROBERT TO MAKE PUBLIC ALL
00:05:55RECORDS TO THE PROSECUTION AND EXECUTION OF THEIR PARENTS,
00:05:58JULIUS AND ROSENBERG, MOLLY
00:06:03JONG-FAST IS A CONTRIBUTING WRITER AT, THE NEW YORK TIMES
00:06:06AND MSNBC'S POLITICAL ANALYST,
00:06:09HOST OF THE FAST POLITICS PODCAST AND AUTHOR OF THE NEW
00:06:12YORK TIMES BESTSELLER HOW TO LOSE YOUR MOTHER.
00:06:18DR. LOUISE PATTERSON IS A SOCIAL
00:06:20JUSTICE ACTIVIST AND RETIRED PEDIATRICIAN.
00:06:23HER PARENTS, LOUISE AND WILLIAM
00:06:25PATTERSON, WERE COMMUNISTS LEADERS WHO ORGANIZED FOR CIVIL
00:06:29RIGHTS AND PIONEERED THE BLACK FREEDOM MOVEMENT.
00:06:33IN 1951, HER FATHER, ALONG WITH
00:06:35PAUL ROBESON, PRESENTED A
00:06:37PETITION TO THE UNITED NATIONS
00:06:40ENTITLED WE CHARGED GENOCIDE GOD, WHICH ACCUSED THE U.S.
00:06:44GOVERNMENT OF GENOCIDE AGAINST ITS BLACK CITIZENS.
00:06:49BEVERLY GAGE IS THE JOHN LEWIS GADDIS OF HISTORY AT YALE
00:06:54UNIVERSITY CITY. HER BOOK, G-MAN ON J.
00:06:56EDGAR HOOVER AND THE MAKING OF THE AMERICAN CENTURY, A
00:07:00BIOGRAPHY OF FORMER FBI J.
00:07:03EDGAR HOOVER RECEIVED THE 2023
00:07:06PULITZER PRIZE FOR BIOGRAPHY THE
00:07:08BANCROFT PRIZE IN AMERICAN AND
00:07:12NUMEROUS OTHER ACCOLADES.
00:07:14OUR FIRST PANELIST IS MICHAEL MICHAEL MEEROPOL.
00:07:17PLEASE JOIN ME IN WELCOMING HIM.
00:07:25HELLO.
00:07:27THIS IS HELLO?
00:07:31CAN YOU HEAR ME? IT WORK? OKAY, GOOD. I PUSHED RIGHT BUTTON.
00:07:35I. FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO THANK
00:07:37COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY AND SAINT JOHN THE DIVINE FOR HOSTING THIS
00:07:41EVENT, CO-SPONSORING IT AND I WANT TO GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO TY
00:07:45JONES, WHOSE MADE THIS POSSIBLE.
00:07:51YES, YOU WERE VERY WORTHY.
00:07:55NOW, I AM A RETIRED COLLEGE WITH
00:07:57A GREAT INTEREST IN RECENT AMERICAN HISTORY.
00:08:00AT THE SAME TO BEING A STUDENT
00:08:03OF HISTORY, I'M SOMEONE WHO HAS
00:08:05LIVED A LOT OF THAT HISTORY. AT THE TENDER AGE OF SEVEN, I
00:08:09DROPPED INTO THE MAELSTROM OF AMERICAN HISTORY WHEN MY FATHER
00:08:14ARRESTED IN JULY 1950. AS SOME OF YOU KNOW, HE WAS
00:08:17CHARGED WITH CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT ESPIONAGE.
00:08:20BUT IN THE MIND, THE JUDGE AND
00:08:21THE PUBLIC AND HE WAS A TRAITOR
00:08:25WHO STOLE THE SECRET OF THE ATOM BOMB AND PLACED OUR NATION'S
00:08:29SURVIVAL IN JEOPARDY.
00:08:33AS BROTHER SAYS IN A MOVIE, MY MADE ABOUT THE CASE.
00:08:36IT'S BECAUSE OF THE SECRET OF THE ATOM BOMB.
00:08:39IT'S BECAUSE OF THE DOUBLE DEATH PENALTY THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
00:08:42THE CASE MANY LATER. AND I WANT TO PUT THE FAMILY'S
00:08:46STORY IN CONTEXT. IN THE LATE 1940S AND EARLY
00:08:50FIFTIES, THE UNITED STATES EXPERIENCED WHAT COULD ONLY BE
00:08:53CALLED A PAROXYSM OF
00:08:57ANTI-COMMUNISM, AN IMPORTANT POLITICAL BACKDROP UP TO MY PARENTS TRIAL.
00:09:01THE FIGHTS OF MR. WILLIAM PATTERSON, THE STRUGGLES OF THE
00:09:04WRITER HOWARD.
00:09:06HERE'S A PERSONAL EXAMPLE.
00:09:08IT WAS THE FALL OF 1951, I WAS
00:09:11LIVING WITH MY GRANDMOTHER UP NEAR 184 STREET OVERLOOKING THE
00:09:16HARLEM RIVER, AND IN THE FALL OF 51.
00:09:20SIX MONTHS AFTER THE TRIAL, A SERIES OF ARTICLES APPEARED IN A
00:09:24SMALL LEFT WING NEWSPAPER CALLED THE NATIONAL GUARDIAN.
00:09:26AND I WAS ECSTATIC BECAUSE IT SAID THAT MY PARENTS CASE WAS
00:09:31NOT OPEN AND SHUT CASE THAT MAYBE THEY WERE INNOCENT.
00:09:34CERTAINLY THE DEATH SENTENCE DID NOT APPROPRIATE.
00:09:36I WAS SO EXCITED I STARTED TELLING MY FRIENDS ON THE BLOCK
00:09:40REMEMBER, I'M EIGHT YEARS OLD. I TELL MY FRIEND PHIL, I TELL MY
00:09:44FRIEND PHIL'S MOTHER, I MENTIONED THE NEWSPAPER SHE'S
00:09:46VERY NICE TO ME AND I THINK THIS IS GREAT.
00:09:49BUT PHIL WARNS ME, HE SAID, DON'T TELL LAURENCE. HE'LL BLAB IT AROUND THE
00:09:53NEIGHBORHOOD. AND NOW YOU GOT TO MARVEL AT THE
00:09:57NAIVETY OF THAT EIGHT YEAR OLD, WHICH WAS ME. I SAID GREAT.
00:09:59IF LAURENCE BLABS IT AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD, EVERYBODY WILL READ.
00:10:03THAT NEWSPAPER. YEAH, RIGHT.
00:10:05AND THEY'LL SUPPORT MY PARENTS AND THEY'LL COME HOME.
00:10:08SO WE TELL LAURENCE. TWO DAYS LATER, I'M IN HIS APARTMENT. MY.
00:10:12HIS MOTHER ASKS ME MY NAME. I TELL MY NAME AND I START TO GET EXCITED, TELLING HER ABOUT
00:10:16THE NEWSPAPER SHE DOESN'T WANT HEAR IT. SHE THROWS ME OUT OF HER HOUSE.
00:10:20SHE SAYS TO LAURENCE, THAT'S THE
00:10:22LAST OF YOUR COMMUNIST FRIEND.
00:10:24AND THEN SHE URGES TO NEVER HANG AROUND LAURENCE.
00:10:28WELL, I WENT HOME CRYING, NEEDLESS TO SAY, AND I WAS TRAUMATIZED.
00:10:32NOW, WOMAN COULD HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY NICE, BUT SHE WAS
00:10:36TERRIFIED THAT I, AN EIGHT YEAR OLD, WOULD CONTAMINATE HER SON.
00:10:42THAT'S 1950S AMERICA. NOW, LET ME MOVE TO THE MORE
00:10:46BROAD HISTORICAL CONTEXT.
00:10:49AFTER WORLD WAR TWO, THE UNITED HAD A CHOICE.
00:10:53CONTINUE ON THE PATH TOWARDS SOCIAL DEMOCRACY THAT BEGAN WITH
00:10:56THE NEW DEAL AND ACCEPTANCE OF
00:10:58THE SOVIET UNION AS A PARTNER IN
00:11:00THE WORLD OR REVERT TO THE
00:11:04POST-WORLD WAR ONE ANTI
00:11:06BOLSHEVISM AND RED SCARE. WE ALL KNOW THE WARTIME ALLIANCE
00:11:10WITH. THE SOVIET UNION WAS A MARRIAGE OF CONVENIENCE. NEITHER SIDE TRUSTED THE OTHER,
00:11:14ALTHOUGH IT IS TRUE THAT FDR THOUGHT HE COULD WITH STALIN.
00:11:17BUT AFTER FDR, IT'S PRETTY
00:11:20OBVIOUS THE COLD WAR WAS INEVITABLE. AND IF THE COLD WAR WAS
00:11:24INEVITABLE, IT WAS ESSENTIAL THAT THE LEADERSHIP, THE UNITED
00:11:27STATES, FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE GROUP THAT WAS GOING TO OPPOSE
00:11:30THE COLD, THE AMERICAN COMMUNIST AND THEIR ALLIES.
00:11:34AND THEY DID.
00:11:35THEIR GOAL WAS TO AND WEAKEN AND
00:11:39MAKE THE COMMUNIST PARTY POLITICALLY IRRELEVANT.
00:11:42AND THAT GOAL WAS DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND REPUBLIC PARTY.
00:11:47OKAY. WHAT ABOUT THE SPECIFICS OF THE
00:11:50CASE BETWEEN 1941 AND 45, MY FATHER ATTEMPTED, FIRST AND
00:11:55FOREMOST, TO HELP THE SOVIET UNION BEAT THE NAZIS.
00:11:57HE WAS OUT OF THE ESPIONAGE LOOP TILL 47 AND THEN BACK IN FOR A
00:12:01FEW YEARS. HE WAS ARRESTED.
00:12:05HERE'S THE POLITICAL EMPHASIS THE GOVERNMENT CREATED.
00:12:09WHEN FATHER WAS ARRESTED BETWEEN
00:12:11END OF WORLD WAR TWO AND 1950,
00:12:13THE US GOVERNMENT, IT WAS ESSENTIAL TO TURN MY FATHER'S,
00:12:17ALBEIT ILLEGAL WORK TO HELP AN
00:12:20ALLY INTO.
00:12:25I QUOTE FROM THE JUDGE'S SENTENCING SPEECH. THE ISSUE OF PUNISHMENT.
00:12:28THIS CASE IS PRESENTED IN A UNIQUE FRAMEWORK OF HISTORY.
00:12:31IT IS SO DIFFICULT TO MAKE
00:12:33PEOPLE REALIZE THAT THIS COUNTRY IS ENGAGED IN A LIFE AND DEATH
00:12:37STRUGGLE WITH A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
00:12:39I BELIEVE NEVER AT ANY TIME IN
00:12:42OUR HISTORY WHERE WE CONFRONTED WITH SUCH A CHALLENGE TO OUR
00:12:46VERY EXISTENCE. I CONSIDER YOUR CRIME WORSE THAN MURDER.
00:12:49I BELIEVE YOUR CONDUCT PUTTING THE HANDS OF THE RUSSIANS.
00:12:52THE A-BOMB HAS CAUSED, IN MY OPINION, THE COMMUNIST
00:12:56AGGRESSION IN KOREA. AND WHO KNOWS WHAT MEANS MORE
00:13:02INNOCENT PEOPLE WILL PAY THE
00:13:04PRICE OF YOUR TREASON AND NOTE
00:13:07THE WORD TREASON.
00:13:09WHEN EISENHOWER DENIED CLEMENCY
00:13:11TWO YEARS LATER, HE BLAMED MY
00:13:13PARENTS FOR ANY FUTURE NUCLEAR WAR.
00:13:17AND IF ANYBODY WANTS DETAILS ABOUT THE CASE, THERE'S A QR
00:13:20CODE YOU CAN ACCESS SOMEHOW OR OTHER.
00:13:24SO MY FATHER WAS AS CHARGED.
00:13:26HE CONSPIRED TO COMMIT ESPIONAGE
00:13:30WITH SCIENCE ORIENTED FRIENDS. MANY OF WHOM HE WENT TO SCHOOL
00:13:32WITH AND RELATIVES. DAVID AND RUTH GREENGLASS, MY
00:13:36MOTHER'S BROTHER AND SISTER IN
00:13:38LAW, DAVID GREENGLASS, HAD BEEN
00:13:40A MACHINIST AT THE LOS ALAMOS OF
00:13:43THE MANHATTAN PROJECT.
00:13:45NOW, HOW DID THE GOVERNMENT USE THESE FACTS?
00:13:48WELL, OF ALL THEY NEEDED TO GET MY TO TALK.
00:13:51SO THEY DECIDED THAT A DEATH
00:13:54PENALTY ESSENTIAL TO MAKE A DEATH PENALTY ESSENTIAL THEY HAD
00:13:58TO PROMOTE MY FATHER TO A MASTER
00:14:01ATOMIC SPY, WHICH, BY THE WAY, WE KNOW IS NOT TRUE.
00:14:06THEN TO FURTHER PRESSURE MY
00:14:08FATHER, THEY ARRESTED MY MOTHER
00:14:10WHEN THEY KNEW SHE WASN'T A SPY.
00:14:13I PUT THAT LAST PICTURE.
00:14:19WHAT YOU'RE SEEING NOW IS PICTURE OF MY BROTHER AND ME IN
00:14:22FRONT OF WHITE HOUSE IN DECEMBER
00:14:25OF 2016, TRYING TO GET PRESIDENT
00:14:27OBAMA TO DECLARE A THAT OUR
00:14:29MOTHER WAS A SPY.
00:14:32WE HAVE EVIDENCE UP DOWN AND
00:14:34SIDEWAYS THAT PROVES THE
00:14:36GOVERNMENT KNEW THIS AND. THAT'S AVAILABLE.
00:14:39ALSO FOLLOWING THE QR CODE TO
00:14:42MAKE DEATH PENALTY PALATABLE TO MAJORITY OF THE PUBLIC.
00:14:46MY PARENTS HAD TO BE DEMONIZED,
00:14:48AND THAT WAS ACCOMPLISHED BY. MAKING THE MOTIVE IN THE TRIAL.
00:14:52COMMUNISM AND MAKE MY PARENTS
00:14:58UNACCEPTABLE TO THE JURY. THEY KEPT ASKING THEM IF THEY WERE COMMUNISTS.
00:15:01MY PARENTS TOOK THE FIFTH AMENDMENT AND IN A KIND OF CATCH
00:15:0522, THE JURY SET A HALF. THEY MUST BE HIDING SOMETHING.
00:15:08AND LET'S NOT FORGET, THIS
00:15:10SUMMER, MY PARENTS WERE ARRESTED.
00:15:13THE KOREAN WAR STARTED. THE TRIAL OCCURRED IN APRIL 51.
00:15:16THE KOREAN WAR WAS RAGING, THE KOREAN ARMISTICE WAS NOT SIGNED
00:15:20TILL AFTER THEY KILLED.
00:15:24NOW THERE'S A PICTURE. THE NEXT PICTURE THAI IS FROM
00:15:28THE SUMMER OF 1953. THAT'S ROBBY AND AS KIDS IN
00:15:31FRONT OF THE WHITE ATTEMPTING TO
00:15:34GET EISENHOWER TO ACHIEVE CLEMENCY.
00:15:37MY PARENTS RESPONDED BY PLEADING
00:15:39NOT GUILTY TO EVERYTHING. AND THAT WAS THEIR WAY OF
00:15:44FIGHTING BACK. ON TOP OF THAT, VERY AND I MEAN
00:15:48VERY SMALL GROUP OF MAVERICKS CREATED THE COMMITTEE TO SECURE
00:15:51JUSTICE IN ROSENBERG CASE. STARTING VERY SMALL.
00:15:55AFTER THE TRIAL, THEY ACHIEVED
00:15:59NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL IMPACT WHICH CAME IN MY OPINION
00:16:02IN THE OPINION OF MANY THAT CLOSE TO CONVINCING EISENHOWER
00:16:06TO GRANT AS A WAY OF PROTECTING
00:16:10AMERICA'S GOOD NAME IN THE WORLD.
00:16:13SINCE MY MOTHER WAS FRAMED. SHE WASN'T A SPY AND HALF THE
00:16:18CASE MY FATHER WAS A LIE. I WOULD ARGUE MY PARENT'S
00:16:22APPROACH THE BEST DEFENSE AND IN THE COURSE OF THE CLEMENCY
00:16:26CAMPAIGN. LOTS OF PEOPLE JOINED WHO THOUGHT THEY WERE GUILTY.
00:16:30IMPACT OF THE CASE.
00:16:32ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT IS
00:16:34IT FRIGHTENED THE HELL OF MANY LEFTISTS.
00:16:38WILLIAM LATER TO BECOME CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE UNITED STATES WAS
00:16:41A LAW CLERK 1953 AND HE WROTE A
00:16:43MEMO SAYING THE DEATH PENALTY WAS CLEARLY A WARNING TO
00:16:47COMMUNISTS. IT WAS SO PROMINENT I WOULD
00:16:51ARGUE THAT IT HAD THE EFFECT
00:16:53AMERICAN LEFTISTS, THAT LYNCHING
00:16:56HAD IN THE GRIMSHAW'S SOUTH A WARNING TO THE LOCAL BLACK
00:17:00COMMUNITY. THEY BETTER STAY IN LINE.
00:17:02THEY BETTER KNOW THEIR PLACE.
00:17:04AND BECAUSE THE CASE INVOLVED
00:17:06AND A PART OF THE PROSECUTION WITNESSES AND A FRAUD ABOUT THE
00:17:10SIGNIFICANCE OF THE ALLEGED SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION STOLEN,
00:17:14MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE MY PARENTS WERE TOTALLY INNOCENT. AND MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE
00:17:18BELIEVED FULL BLOODED FASCISM
00:17:20JUST AROUND THE CORNER. AND MY PARENTS AGREED.
00:17:24THEY PUBLICLY CLAIMED TO BE THE FIRST VICTIMS OF AMERICAN
00:17:28FASCISM, BUT IN MY OPINION, WITH
00:17:30MY HISTORIAN'S HAT ON. THANKFULLY, THAT WASN'T THE CASE.
00:17:34I THINK THE RESISTANCE OF HOWARD
00:17:36FAST AND WILLIAM PATTERSON AND
00:17:39OTHERS, INCLUDING THIS MAN FOR A GROUP OF PEOPLE, THE NATIONAL
00:17:43COMMITTEE SECURE JUSTICE IN THE ROSENBERG CASE PLAYED A ROLE.
00:17:47DESPITE THE FEAR OF LEFTISTS IN
00:17:49THE END THERE WAS NO MOVE
00:17:51TOWARDS NATIONAL FASCISM.
00:17:53MCCARTHY HIMSELF WAS DESCRIBED AIDED AND CENSURED AND DIED IN
00:17:57DISGRACE. PAUL ROBESON AND W.E.B. GOT
00:18:00THEIR PASSPORTS.
00:18:02THERE WAS A BETTER ATMOSPHERE FOR CIVIL LIBERTIES IN THE EARLY 1960S.
00:18:07THEN A DECADE EARLIER.
00:18:10BUT IN FACT, MY PARENTS EMPHASIS ON BEING THE FIRST VICTIMS OF
00:18:13AMERICAN FASCISM IGNORED OF
00:18:17REGIONAL AMERICAN FASCISM, I WOULD ARGUE FROM THE 1890S
00:18:20THROUGH MOST OF THE 1950S. BLACK AMERICANS IN THE SOUTH HAD
00:18:24LIVED UNDER REGIONAL VERSION OF FASCISM.
00:18:28IN 1946, A RECENTLY BLACK
00:18:31SOLDIER, SERGEANT ISAAC WOODARD,
00:18:33JR, WAS BRUTALLY BEATEN.
00:18:35A SOUTH CAROLINA COP AND FOR LIFE.
00:18:38THE COP WAS ACQUITTED BY AN ALL WHITE JURY.
00:18:42THE JIM CROW SOUTH HAD BEEN A
00:18:44MODEL FOR HITLER'S LAWS AGAINST THE --.
00:18:48MARY LOU PATTERSON'S FATHER, WILLIAM PATTERSON, WAS HEAD OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS CONGRESS.
00:18:52HE WITH FAMILIES AS THEIR CHILD
00:18:54WAS MURDERED BY THE SOUTHERN SYSTEM.
00:18:58BUT PEOPLE LIKE MY PARENTS LIVING IN THE NORTH DIDN'T SEE IT THAT WAY.
00:19:02WE WITH 20TH CENTURY HINDSIGHT,
00:19:05CERTAINLY CAN.
00:19:06BEFORE I FINISH MY PRESENTATION
00:19:09AND I WANT TO MAKE A QUICK FORAY
00:19:11INTO TODAY'S WORLD OF POLITICS.
00:19:15A WEEKS AGO, I WAS RIVETED WATCHING TESTIMONY FROM
00:19:18SURVIVORS OF, ICE VIOLENCE IN
00:19:20MINNEAPOLIS AND ELSEWHERE
00:19:22DELIVERED BEFORE A GROUP CONGRESSIONAL DEMOCRATS.
00:19:25AS I LISTENED TO THE CHILLING TESTIMONY OF PEOPLE SHOT AT WHO
00:19:30SURVIVED, I THOUGHT AGAIN OF ISAAC WOODARD AND ALL THE BLACK
00:19:32FOLKS LYNCHED IN LATE 1890S AND INTO THE 20TH CENTURY.
00:19:37AND THOUGHT ABOUT THE FEARS OF
00:19:40IN THE 1950S THAT FASCISM WAS AROUND THE CORNER.
00:19:43AND I THOUGHT, NOTWITHSTANDING
00:19:47THE HORROR OF MY PARENTS EXECUTION, THAT PERIOD WAS
00:19:51QUALITY NATIVELY DIFFERENT THAN THE VIOLENCE, THE JIM CROW SOUTH
00:19:54AND THE VIOLENCE OF TRUMPS ICE NAZIS.
00:19:58TODAY. THAT VIOLENCE, THE FEARS OF
00:20:02FASCISM IN THE 1950S INAPPROPRIATE PERSPECTIVE. AND PLEASE NOT TAKE THIS AS
00:20:06HYPERBOLE. I THINGS ARE MUCH WORSE NOW THAN
00:20:11THEY IN THE 1950S. AND THE REASON I THINK IS
00:20:17PARADOXICALLY, TODAY'S COUNTRY'S MORE EVENLY SPLIT.
00:20:20THE AMERICAN LEFT WAS MUCH WEAKER IN THE FIFTIES.
00:20:22TODAY, THE OPPOSITION TO TRUMP
00:20:25IS, THE MAJORITY AND FORTUNATELY
00:20:28WITH NOT ENOUGH GRASP OF THE
00:20:32LEVERS POWER IN ORDER TO INTRODUCE THE VARIOUS CHANGES
00:20:36DESIRED, THE AUTHORITARIAN FASCIST VOTER ROLLS WILL NEED TO
00:20:39BE PURGED. WHAT IS TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS WILL
00:20:42NEED TO BE CENSORED. THE MEDIA WILL HAVE TO BE BROUGHT TO HEEL.
00:20:45DEMONSTRATORS WILL NEED TO BE ATTACKED, EVEN KILLED.
00:20:49AND BECAUSE THE OPPOSITION IS
00:20:52LARGE AND STRONG, IT WILL TAKE STRONG REPRESSION TO BEAT THEM
00:20:56DOWN. BUT WE ARE, THE MAJORITY, THE
00:20:58PEOPLE OF, MINNEAPOLIS AND ELSEWHERE, HAVE SHOWN US THE WAY
00:21:02TO FIGHT BACK. IF THAT TINY GROUP OF MAVERICKS
00:21:06COULD THAT CLOSE TO SAVING MY PARENTS.
00:21:09IF HOWARD FAST COULD CONTINUE
00:21:11BOOKS, IF WILLIAM PATTERSON COULD CONTINUE HIS ACTIVISM, WE
00:21:15CAN FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE
00:21:19AMERICAN VERSION OF TV CENTURY
00:21:23FASCISM. AND WE MUST.
00:21:26THANK YOU.
00:21:53SOMETIMES PEOPLE DON'T JUST READ. HELLO? CAN YOU HEAR THIS, MIKE?
00:21:57I WILL JUST TRADE MY DOCTOR.
00:22:00MARY LOUISE PATTERSON.
00:22:05THANK. THANKS, MIKE. THANKS, MIKE. YES.
00:22:11OKAY. TY, CAN YOU PUT THE SLIDES UP,
00:22:16PLEASE.
00:22:24GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE.
00:22:24ACTUALLY, IT'S TRAVIS.
00:22:29GOOD AFTERNOON.
00:22:31GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE AND THANK
00:22:34YOU FOR COMING IN THIS WEATHER,
00:22:38IT ALWAYS FEELS GOOD.
00:22:40IS IT ECHOING OR IS THAT ME HEARING IT?
00:22:44NO IT'S. IT'S GOING THROUGH THE MIKE. OH, IT ALWAYS FEELS GOOD TO BE
00:22:48IN THE COMPANY OF ONE'S FRIENDS AND TO BE EXCITED AND DELIGHTED
00:22:52BY SEEING NEW FACES, WHICH MEANS WHERE WIDENING OUR CIRCLE MORE
00:22:56CRITICAL NOW THAN EVER BEFORE BECAUSE ALL HANDS ARE NEEDED ON
00:23:00IF WE'RE GOING TO TURN THIS SHIP AROUND BEFORE IT CAREENS OVER
00:23:02THE WATERFALL.
00:23:04I WANT TO THANK THE ORGANIZERS, SR'S PROFESSOR TY JONES AND HIS
00:23:09ASSOCIATES IN THE HISTORY DEPARTMENT, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY
00:23:11AND THE LIBRARY FOR CONCEIVING AND ORGANIZING THIS EVENT.
00:23:15AND REVEREND BACH IS AND SAINT
00:23:17JOHN THE DIVINE FOR HOSTING IT.
00:23:21THE OLD LEVEE'S PAST CAN BE ILLUMINATING EVEN INSTRUCTIVE
00:23:25AND. INSPIRING. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING IT TO A NEW AUDIENCE.
00:23:29IT'S A REAL HONOR TO SHARE THIS STAGE WITH SUCH A DISTINGUISHED PANEL.
00:23:33I'M ALSO HONORED TO BE REPRESENTING NOT ONLY MY PARENTS
00:23:36AND THEIR COMRADES AND OUR EXPERIENCE IN THE 1950S, BUT TO
00:23:40BE STANDING IN FOR SUSAN
00:23:42ROBESON, THE GRANDDAUGHTER OF THE GREAT PAUL ROBESON, WHO WAS
00:23:47ALSO A CHERISHED FRIEND AND
00:23:49COMRADE IN ARMS OF MY PARENTS
00:23:52WORLD WAR TWO, WAS A WORLDWIDE BATTLE AGAINST THE RISE AND
00:23:55ATTEMPTED TAKEOVER BY FASCISTS. AS WE ALL KNOW
00:23:58AFRICAN-AMERICANS, VALIANTLY FOUGHT IN THAT WAR.
00:24:01AND THEIR SLOGAN DOUBLE V FOR VICTORY.
00:24:05VICTORY OVER FASCISM IN EUROPE
00:24:07AND VICTORY OVER RACISM AND. JIM CROW HERE AT HOME.
00:24:11OUR FORM OF FASCISM, AMERICANA.
00:24:15AND WHEN THEY LIBERATED SOME OF THE CONCENTRATION, THEY WERE
00:24:19HORRIFIED BY. WHAT THEY SAW, THE U.S.
00:24:23GOVERNMENT UNDER PRESSURE. FINALLY HAD TO ALLOW BLACK
00:24:25SOLDIERS TO PICK UP A GUN ON EUROPEAN SOIL TO HELP DEFEAT FASCISM.
00:24:31THERE. BUT IT WOULD BE -- IF IT WOULD
00:24:33ALLOW BLACK PEOPLE TO PICK UP
00:24:35GUN HERE IN SELF-DEFENSE AGAINST
00:24:38RACIST VIOLENCE IMMEDIATELY. POST-WORLD WAR TWO.
00:24:43MCCARTHY COLD WAR, ANTI-COMMUNIST IDEOLOGY POLICIES
00:24:46AND WAR AND LAWS WERE PUT IN
00:24:49PLACE SINCE U.S. GOVERNMENT
00:24:52WASN'T ABOUT TO LIBERATE THE 20 MILLION AFRICAN-AMERICANS LIVING
00:24:56UNDER FASCISM RULE IN THE SOUTH AND QUASI FASCIST IN THE
00:25:00SO-CALLED URBAN GHETTOS.
00:25:02NOT TO MENTION LIBERATING THE INDIGENOUS NATIVE AMERICANS, THE
00:25:06FIRST TO CONFRONT GENOCIDE AND
00:25:08NOW FORCED TO LIVE IN CONCENTRÉ NATION CAMPS.
00:25:11ANYONE WHO DARED TRY WAS AN
00:25:13INTERNAL ENEMY AND THAT ENEMY
00:25:15HAD A NAME COMMUNIST.
00:25:19THUS BEGAN IN DEADLY FOR THE
00:25:22SECOND TIME IN AMERICAN HISTORY, A MANUFACTURED ATMOSPHERE OF,
00:25:26FEAR OF THE OTHER, THE ALIEN WAS
00:25:28CAST LIKE A HEAVY BLANKET OVER THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.
00:25:31AND WE ENTERED AN ERA WHEN. ANYONE WHO CHALLENGED THE STATUS
00:25:36QUO OR USE A TERM LIKE WHITE SUPREMACY OR INSTITUTIONALIZED
00:25:40RACISM OR SAID CHINA INSTEAD OF
00:25:42SAYING RED CHINA WAS AUTOMATICALLY LABELED A
00:25:46COMMUNIST AS LUDICROUS AS THIS SOUND NOW, ALTHOUGH NOT
00:25:51UNFAMILIAR TO REMEMBER THE PEDOPHILE RING IN THE CLINTON
00:25:54WHITE HOUSE BASEMENT AND PIZZAGATE THAT CUTE Q AND ON
00:25:58PLUS OTHERS WAR EXISTED. WELL BACK THEN.
00:26:03COMMUNISM CALLED SATANIC AND COMMUNISTS WERE LENIN'S SPAWN.
00:26:08THE ANTICHRIST WHO REALLY HAD
00:26:10AND TAILS AND CLUB AND FEED, BUT ONLY DISPLAYED THEM WHEN
00:26:14PRIVATELY GATHERED IN THEIR DARK CELLS.
00:26:16OF COURSE, THUS DEPICTED THEY
00:26:18HAD TO BE OUT AND STAMPED OUT BEFORE THEY CONTAMINATED AND
00:26:24DESTROYED THE EXALTED AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE.
00:26:26THE GOVERNMENT SAID IT ITS DUTY
00:26:28TO PROTECT AND DEFEND AMERICA
00:26:31AND AMERICANS AT COSTS, EVEN IF
00:26:34THAT MEANT AT THE COST OF OUR CIVIL RIGHTS CIVIL LIBERTIES AND
00:26:37THE ABRIDGMENT THE CONSTITUTIONAL RULE OF LAW.
00:26:42UNFORTUNATELY, TOO MANY SWALLOWED THAT LIE.
00:26:45SO USURPING THE USE GOVERNMENT
00:26:47MACHINERY COUPLED COUPLED WITH
00:26:49THE POSSIBILITIES OF THE
00:26:51MIRACULOUS NEW MEDIA INVENTION
00:26:53TELEVISION THAT COULD REACH
00:26:57MILLIONS INSTANTANEOUSLY AND
00:27:01SPONTANEOUSLY A THE REACTION
00:27:05ORNERY RIGHT WING FORCES IN GOVERNMENT. J.
00:27:07EDGAR HOOVER AND HIS FBI, THE NSA AND THE IRS LAUNCHED A HOT,
00:27:12HEAVY AND UGLY HUNT FOR
00:27:15REPRESSION OF COMMUNISTS.
00:27:17NO AMOUNT OR MANNER OF
00:27:19HARASSMENT, SURVEILLANCE, LYING
00:27:22JOB FIRINGS AND LOYALTY OATH,
00:27:24BLACKLISTING, IMPRISONMENT, EVEN
00:27:26EXECUTION WAS TOO EXCESSIVE,
00:27:28EVEN IF OSTENSIBLY USED TO WIPE
00:27:30COMMUNISTS AND THE EVIL COMMUNAL AS A MENACE.
00:27:33BUT THAT WAS MOSTLY PRETEXT. THEY REALLY WANTED PARALYZE OR
00:27:37HOPEFULLY REVERSE THE LIBERATION MOVEMENT OF BLACK AND WORKERS
00:27:43EXPLOITATION AND MOVEMENT AND THE ANTI EXPLOITER MOVEMENT.
00:27:46SO MY FAMILY HAD TWO STRIKES AGAINST IT.
00:27:49IT WAS BLACK AND RED.
00:27:52BLACK PEOPLE, FOR THE MOST PART, WERE FORCED TO LIVE IN
00:27:55SEGREGATED COMMUNITY, WHICH IRONICALLY DID PROVIDE SOME
00:28:00PROTECTION, ALBEIT SUPERFICIAL, FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT ALTHOUGH THERE EXISTED A
00:28:05SKEPTICISM, COMMUNISM IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY, GREATER WAS THE
00:28:07HATRED OF RACISM AND RACISTS AND
00:28:11A IN THE NOBLE HISTORY OF FIGHTING AGAINST IT AND
00:28:14ASSISTING THOSE WHO DID WHICH
00:28:16INCLUDED BLACK COMMUNISTS.
00:28:18PEOPLE OFTEN HOW MY FAMILY
00:28:21SURVIVED THAT HORRIFIC PERIOD INTACT.
00:28:24THE SHORT ANSWER IS MY PARENTS BECAME PART OF A NUCLEUS.
00:28:28EXCUSE ME, OF A COBBLED TOGETHER
00:28:32THAT PROTECTED AND SHELTERED THE CHILDREN WHILE MAKING IT
00:28:36POSSIBLE FOR THE ADULTS TO FIGHT ON WHICH THEY NOT ONLY DID, BUT
00:28:39IN SEVERAL SALIENT INSTANCES. AT THE RISK OF THEIR FAMILIES
00:28:43AND THEMSELVES THEY EVEN INTENSIFIED THEIR WORK BY TAKING
00:28:47BOLD AND PUBLIC MOMENTOUS, NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL
00:28:51ACTIONS THAT REVERBERATE TODAY.
00:28:53ACTIONS THAT NOT ONLY DEFIED THE
00:28:55FEAR AND HYSTERIA AND ANTI FRENZY, BUT FURTHERED THE CAUSE
00:29:00OF LIBERATION FOR WHICH THEY HUNGERED SO THEY BELIEVED IN THE
00:29:05TRUISM THAT UNITY THAT IN UNITY.
00:29:11AND THERE IS STRENGTH.
00:29:13AND IT WAS THEIR UNITY IN THEIR
00:29:16NUMBERS AND THEIR COURAGE THAT
00:29:18MADE OUR SURVIVAL INTACT POSSIBLE.
00:29:20IT ALSO MADE FOR OUR THEIR
00:29:24CHILDREN, FOR OUR LOVE AND PROFOUND AND, ENDLESS
00:29:26APPRECIATION OF THEM AND THEIR
00:29:28CHOICES POSSIBLE TODAY.
00:29:30IT MADE MY LIFE AS A DOCTOR
00:29:32POSSIBLE AND MY DESIRE TO PICK
00:29:34UP IN MY WAY WHERE THEY LEFT OFF
00:29:38POSSIBLE IN THE MID 1950S AT THE
00:29:41HEIGHT OF THE MCCARTHY PERIOD.
00:29:43MY PARENTS MOVED TO BROOKLYN, WHERE THREE OTHER RED AND
00:29:47AFRICAN-AMERICA FAMILIES ALREADY LIVED.
00:29:49JIM AND ESTHER, JACKSON, LEWIS,
00:29:51DOROTHY BURNHAM AND AUGUSTA AND
00:29:57HEADSTRONG. THEY HAD ALREADY FORMED THE NUCLEUS, THE NUCLEUS OF THE COMMUNITY.
00:30:00I MENTIONED AND READILY PULLED ME AND MY PARENTS RIGHT INTO IT.
00:30:04THEY ALL CHILDREN. THE BURNHAM'S CHILDREN WERE
00:30:10CLAUDIA, LINDA AND CHARLES. THE JACKSONS DAUGHTERS WERE
00:30:13HARRIET. CATHY. THE STRONG'S DAUGHTERS.
00:30:16PHYLLIS, DENISE AND ALLISON. I BECAME BEST FRIENDS WITH, THE
00:30:20ELDEST ONES. WE WERE ALL THE SAME. BORN WITHIN MONTHS OF EACH
00:30:24OTHER. WE WERE IN AND OUT OF EACH HOMES
00:30:26ALL THE TIME WITH LIMITED FINANCIAL RESOURCES.
00:30:30REVOLUTION. REVOLUTION. YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT.
00:30:35REVOLUTION AREAS ARE ALWAYS POOR. OUR MOTHERS WHERE THE
00:30:37BREADWINNERS ARE PARENTS WHO WERE ALL WARM, LOVING,
00:30:41WELL-EDUCATED, WERE ABLE TO
00:30:43CREATE AN INVENTIVE, SAFE SPACE US TO GROW UP IN.
00:30:48DURING SUMMER, THERE WERE SUMMER CAMPS RUN BY LEFTISTS, UNIONS
00:30:50AND INDIVIDUALS. WE COULD GO TO.
00:30:54I WENT TO HIGLEY HILL IN VERMONT.
00:30:56OUR PARENTS COVERED FOR EACH
00:31:00OTHER BY SHARING THE CHILD, WHICH MEANT HOSTING, COOKING AND
00:31:04SHARING MEALS, TEACHING US HISTORY AND CULTURE, AND
00:31:08INSTILLING IN US A GENUINE FOR
00:31:11BOTH AND AN INVOLVEMENT IN BOTH.
00:31:13WE KNEW ENOUGH TO CHALLENGE THE MISINFORMATION AND LIES IN OUR
00:31:17HISTORY TEXTBOOKS, WHICH SOMETIMES GOT US IN TROUBLE WITH OUR TEACHERS.
00:31:21I LEARNED THE BASICS OF PLAYING
00:31:26THE FLUTE AT THE BURNHAM'S HOUSE.
00:31:30INCIDENTALLY THE HUSBANDS FULLY PARTICIPATED IN ALL OF THAT.
00:31:34THEY FEMINISTS BEFORE THE WORD WAS COINED.
00:31:36ARTWORK AND CRAFTS BY AFRICAN-AMERICAN ARTISTS AND
00:31:40AFRICAN ARTISTS DECORATED THE WALLS AND COUNTERTOPS IN ALL OF
00:31:43OUR HOMES. MANY OF THOSE ARTISTS WERE
00:31:47FRIENDS. OUR BOOKSHELVES WERE FILLED WITH BOOKS.
00:31:51THEY WERE ALWAYS READING. AND SO WERE WE.
00:31:53WE HAD RECORDINGS BY PAUL ROBESON.
00:31:57JOSH WHITE, LEADBELLY, ODETTA, EARL ROBINSON AND EXCUSE ME,
00:32:02EARL ROBINSON AND OTHERS THAT WERE FAVORITE OF FAVORITES OF
00:32:05OUR PARENTS. OF COURSE, ROBESON HELD, A
00:32:09SPECIAL PLACE IN OUR IN OUR HEARTS.
00:32:11MY MOTHER ALSO LOVED MAHALIA JACKSON. I, TOO.
00:32:16WE GO SEE HER SING WHENEVER SHE CAME TO CONCORD CHURCH IN BROOKLYN.
00:32:21THEY TOOK US CHILDREN TO SEE ALL OF THEM.
00:32:24AND WHEN THEY WOULD, THEY TOOK US CHILDREN TO SEE ALL OF THEM.
00:32:28WHEN THEY WERE PERFORMING IN NEW YORK.
00:32:30OUR PARENTS KNEW THAT CULTURE
00:32:32WAS AN EXTREMELY POWERFUL WEAPON
00:32:34AND CULTURAL LITERACY WAS KEY.
00:32:36ADDITIONALLY, AS COMMUNISTS, THEY WERE A PART OF AN INTERNATIONAL MOVEMENT AND WORLD
00:32:42THAT WORLD AND ITS CULTURE WAS ALSO TO US.
00:32:44AND WE SHOULD NOT ONLY KNOW IT,
00:32:46BUT BE IN SOLIDARY ALREADY WITH IT.
00:32:49THEY SHOWED THE EXQUISITE BEAUTY
00:32:52POWER AND LOVE IN OUR OWN
00:32:54CULTURE AND UPON US THE
00:32:56IMPERATIVE OF EMBRACING AND
00:32:59SUPPORTING IT AND ITS.
00:33:01SO ALTHOUGH NONE OF US HAD ANY
00:33:04MONEY, WE WERE VERY RICH, FULL.
00:33:07WE HAD VERY RICH.
00:33:09FULL AND REWARDING UPBRINGING
00:33:13ACHIEVING OF THAT WAS FAR FROM EASY. IT CERTAINLY WASN'T IDYLLIC.
00:33:17IT WAS HARD AND INCREASINGLY DANGEROUS.
00:33:20AS THE YEARS WENT BY, THEY MADE MISTAKES.
00:33:23THEY SUFFERED DEFEATS AND, AN AGONIZING LOSS.
00:33:27THEY HELD FAST AND STAYED.
00:33:29THEY DIDN'T RELINQUISH.
00:33:31THE DREAM OR THEIR ANALYSIS, NOR THEIR PASSION TO TASTE.
00:33:35AT THE SAME TIME THAT OUR
00:33:37PARENTS CREATED THIS MICRO IN WHICH WE FELT SAFE, THEY MADE US
00:33:41AWARE OF THE DANGERS OUTSIDE AND WHEN POSSIBLE.
00:33:45THEY TOOK US INTO THEIR WORLD OF MEETINGS.
00:33:47DEMONSTRATION DEMONSTRATE MISSIONS, MADE MARCHES AND TO
00:33:51THE CP COMMUNIST PARTY OFFICE ON
00:33:5426TH STREET, OFF A FIFTH AVENUE.
00:33:56WE KNEW NOT TALK TO STRANGERS,
00:33:58NOT BECAUSE THEY'D KIDNAP US, BUT BECAUSE THEY MIGHT BE FBI AGENTS.
00:34:04ONE OF THE FBI'S NEFARIOUS
00:34:06TACTICS WAS TO INVEIGLE ITSELF INTO A FRIENDSHIP WITH THE
00:34:10CHILDREN OF COMMUNISTS, THEN TEASE INFORMATION OUT OF THEM.
00:34:13BUT I DON'T WANT YOU TO THINK IT WAS ALL STRUGGLE SACRIFICE AND
00:34:17HARD WORK. OUR PARENTS HAD LOTS OF FUN,
00:34:21LOTS OF FUN GATHERINGS AND PARTIES.
00:34:23BOTH MY PARENTS LOVED TO COOK. AND COULD THEY COOK?
00:34:27THEY LOVED HAVING FRIENDS OVER. MANY OF THEIR SPECIAL EVENTS
00:34:31WERE INTEGRATED BECAUSE AT THAT TIME LEFT ESPECIALLY THE
00:34:35COMMUNIST WAS THE ONLY SPACE. BLACKS AND WHITES SOCIALIZE,
00:34:40SOCIALIZE. SO WE, THE CHILDREN WEREN'T
00:34:43OBLIVIOUS TO THE SURVEILLANCE
00:34:45HOUNDING AND UNJUST WIELDING OF STATE POWER.
00:34:48WE KNEW OUR PARENTS WERE ENEMIES OF THE STATE, WHICH MADE US
00:34:53LITTLE. HARRIET HARRIET JACKSON'S FATHER
00:34:56WAS CONVICTED THE SMITH ACT. INSTEAD OF GOING TO JAIL, HE
00:35:00DISAPPEARED, ALLUDING AUTHORITIES FOR FOUR YEARS, AS I
00:35:05RECALL, THOSE YEARS WERE VERY HARD ON HIS FAMILY.
00:35:07MY FATHER, CONVICTED OF CONTEMPT
00:35:10OF CONGRESS AND WENT TO JAIL FOR
00:35:12THREE MONTHS FOR. FBI MEN USED TO SIT IN AN
00:35:16UNMARKED DARK FORD ACROSS THE
00:35:18STREET, OUR HOME ALL THE TIME HOPING TO FRIGHTEN OUR
00:35:23NEIGHBORS, DISTINCT, DISTANCING THEMSELVES FROM US OR INTO
00:35:25BECOMING INFORMANTS OR WHO KNOWS, MAYBE BOTH.
00:35:29ONCE, WHILE TRYING TO SERVE DAD
00:35:31MY DAD WITH A SUMMONS, THEY MISTAKENLY PRESENTED IT TO
00:35:35LANDLORD'S SON. LAUGH OUT LOUD.
00:35:37COULD IT BE TRUE WHITE PEOPLE
00:35:40COULDN'T DISTINGUISH BLACK BECAUSE ALL BLACK PEOPLE REALLY
00:35:42LOOKED ALIKE.
00:35:44THEIR SON COULDN'T.
00:35:48OUR LANDLORD'S SON COULDN'T
00:35:50UNTIL DAD CAME HOME FROM WORK TO TELL HIM THAT THE FBI WAS FOR
00:35:54HIM. I WILL END ON TWO INSTANCES.
00:35:58I ALLUDED TO EARLIER THAT SERVED TO ILLUSTRATE THE CAL, THE
00:36:02CALIBER AND CHARACTER CONTENT OF THESE PEOPLE. I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.
00:36:06MY FATHER WILLIAM PATTERSON AND
00:36:09PAUL ON BEHALF OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS CONGRESS IN 1951,
00:36:14PRESENTED A PETITION TO THE UNITED NATIONS IN NEW YORK AND
00:36:16IN PARIS CHARGING THE U.S. GOVERNMENT WITH GENOCIDE.
00:36:20ITS TITLE IS WE CHARGE GENOCIDE.
00:36:25THE CRIME OF GOVERNMENT AGAINST THE -- PEOPLE. THEY HAD FOUR YEARS OF
00:36:30SCRUPULOUS DOCUMENTATION TO BACK
00:36:31THE CHARGE UP AND 100 100 VERY
00:36:35COURAGEOUS BLACK WHITE AMERICANS SIGNED IT FOR DARING TO EXPOSE
00:36:39THE HYPOCRISY AND LIES AND
00:36:42VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY THE
00:36:44GOVERNMENT ON THE INTERNAL STAGE.
00:36:46THE U.N., THEY PAID DEARLY. THEIR PASSPORTS WERE REWORKED,
00:36:52REVOKED. THEY WERE HAULED INTO COURT. AND BEFORE THE U.N. COMMITTEE,
00:36:55THE HOUSE UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES COMMITTEE, IMPRISONED OR
00:36:58THREATENED WITH IMPRISONMENT. AND I BELIEVE IN THE END IT
00:37:02CALLED IT CAUSED PAUL ROBESON
00:37:04HIS LIFE.
00:37:06THE CHARGE OF GENOCIDE HAS BEEN
00:37:09RECENTLY RAISED AGAIN, AND IT
00:37:11SHOULD BE REMEMBERED THAT IT WAS THE CRC PETITION, THE CIVIL
00:37:15RIGHTS CONGRESS, THEIR PETITION
00:37:18AND, THEIR BRAVE ACT THAT LAID
00:37:21BASIS FOR THIS. THE OTHER IS THE FORMATION, A
00:37:25VERY SHORT LIVED ORGANIZATION THAT DIRECTLY INFLUENCED THE USE
00:37:29OF THE TERM INTERSECTIONALITY
00:37:32AND THE ANALYSIS OF THE TRIPLE
00:37:33OF BLACK WOMEN THAT IS THE
00:37:36ORGANIZED ORGANIZATION CALLED SOJOURNERS FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE
00:37:40THAT WAS CONCEIVED BY MY MOTHER,
00:37:41LOUISE, AND HER VERY DEAR FRIEND
00:37:44AND ACTRESS B.J. RICHARDS AND
00:37:46ORGANIZATION BY FOUR AND LED BY
00:37:50RADICAL, MILITANT AND DETERMINED BLACK WOMEN.
00:37:53THE YEAR WAS ALSO 51, AND THEY
00:37:55MARCHED ON THE HOUSE, CONGRESS
00:37:58AND THE PENTAGON IN DEFENSE OF
00:38:00DR. W.E.B. DUBOIS.
00:38:02ROBESON AND MY FATHER IN DEFENSE
00:38:05OF BLACK WOMEN IN GENERAL, AND OF ROSALIE AND HER TWO SONS IN
00:38:11PARTICULAR WHO WERE FACING THE ELECTRIC CHAIR, THEIR
00:38:13SELF-DEFENSE DEATH OF, A WHITE
00:38:15MAN ALSO FOR THE END TO
00:38:17MILITARISM, THE KOREAN WAR WAS
00:38:19WAS ON AT THAT TIME AND FOR THE
00:38:22END, TOO, JIM CROW, THE
00:38:24GOVERNMENT IMMEDIATELY ATTACKED
00:38:26IT AND KILLED IT. WE'VE WITNESSED EBBS AND FLOWS
00:38:30OF RADICAL MOVEMENTS.
00:38:35AND IDEAS, BUT THEY'VE ALWAYS
00:38:38REMAINED IN THE BACKGROUND TO BE
00:38:40REDISCOVERED AND REFORMULATED TO MEET NEW CRISES SUCH AS THE ONE
00:38:44WE'RE IN NOW. A TAKE ON SOCIALISM IS HAPPENING
00:38:48NOW.
00:38:48FOR INSTANCE, OUR NEW MAYOR A WE
00:38:53NEW LOOK AT THE WORK AND LASTING IMPACT COMMUNISTS HAD ON THE
00:38:56VICTORIES ACHIEVED IS ALSO NOW
00:38:59AND EXPLORATION DISCUSSION OF
00:39:01THEIR DIRECT AND INDIRECT ROLE
00:39:04AND CONTRIBUTIONS IS SURFACING
00:39:06IN PROGRAMS JUST LIKE THIS.
00:39:08I MUST BEG YOUR INDULGENCE FOR A
00:39:11SECOND AS I AS I WANT TO MENTION A SITUATION THAT WAS BROUGHT TO
00:39:14MY ATTENTION YESTERDAY.
00:39:17YES WE'RE IN A THIRD RED SCARE
00:39:19MOMENT RIGHT NOW IN THIS VERY
00:39:21BOTH AT COLUMBIA WHICH WE ALL
00:39:24KNOW ABOUT, BUT ALSO AT CUNY
00:39:26WHERE LAST YEAR THERE WAS A MCCARTHYITE PURGE AND FOUR
00:39:30ADJUNCT PROFESSORS WERE FIRED
00:39:32FOR THEIR OPEN SOLIDARITY PALESTINE. THREE WERE REHIRED.
00:39:36BUT THE FOURTH WAS BANNED USING.
00:39:40THE SAME BOGUS JUSTIFICATION USED BACK IN THE 1950S CONDUCT
00:39:45UNBECOMING TO BAN HER FROM BEING REHIRED AT ANY CUNY.
00:39:49PLEASE SEND LETTERS TO THE PRESIDENT OF BROOKLYN COLLEGE
00:39:52AND CUNY'S BOARD CHAIR DEMANDING
00:39:54HER RETIRE BE REHIRED AND.
00:39:58INCIDENTALLY, WE CAN'T USE HER NAME, BUT SHE'S CALLED THE
00:40:02FOURTH FIRE AT AND THERE MAY BE
00:40:04SOME FLIERS THE BACK ON THIS.
00:40:07SO I'LL END WITH MY PARENTS AND THEIR COMRADES REJECTED THE
00:40:12CONSTANT NIGHTLY LOOPING MANTRA, DRUMMED INTO DRUMMED INTO OUR
00:40:16EARS THAT THIS SYSTEM THAT WE LIVE IS AS GOOD AS IT GETS.
00:40:20WITH MAYBE A FEW LITTLE COSMETIC
00:40:23TWEAKS HERE AND THERE AS. THE CYNICAL LIE THAT IT IS, THEY
00:40:27KNEW IT COULD GET BETTER FOR WITNESSED THE FIRST ATTEMPT AS
00:40:30FLAWED AS IT WAS, AND THEY KNEW
00:40:32NEW GENERATION WOULD CONTINUE TO
00:40:34STRIVE TO MAKE IT BETTER.
00:40:36THAT'S OUR TASK NOW AS, MICHAEL SAID.
00:40:39NO MATTER THE COLOSSAL ODDS TO COALESCE AND TOGETHER KEEP
00:40:45FIGHTING TO MAKE IT SO, TO MAKE IT BETTER.
00:40:47THANK YOU.
00:40:58CAN YOU HEAR ME? DOES THIS ONE WORK? I'M GOING TO KEEP THIS ONE. OKAY.
00:41:02THANK YOU.
00:41:02HI, I'M MOLLY JONG-FAST, AND I.
00:41:06I'M JUST GOING TO EXPLAIN MY.
00:41:08MY QUALIFIER BECAUSE I'M A LITTLE BIT MORE REMOVED.
00:41:12MY GRANDPA FATHER WAS HOWARD
00:41:15FAST, WHO WAS.
00:41:18SO I DON'T HAVE. I'M GOING TO NOW. I'M GOING TO TELL YOU WHAT I'M GOING TO DO.
00:41:22I DID NOT WRITE SOMETHING BRILLIANT READ.
00:41:25I WROTE SOMETHING. IT'S OKAY.
00:41:27I'M WORKING ON A BOOK ABOUT HIM
00:41:31AND I'M TRYING TO GET IT. AND THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF THE
00:41:35INTRODUCTION AND WHICH AS I WAS READING OVER BETTER THAN I THOUGHT IT WAS.
00:41:39SO.
00:41:41BUT I HAVEN'T SOLD IT YET. IT'S JUST VERY EARLY STAGES, SO
00:41:44YOU HAVE TO BEAR WITH ME AND IF IT'S TERRIBLE, DON'T TELL ME.
00:41:48TELL ME IT'S GOOD. WE'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE.
00:41:52WHEN I NINE YEARS OLD, MY MOTHER
00:41:54TRIED TO EXPLAIN TO ME WHY MY GRANDFATHER HAD GONE TO JAIL.
00:41:58SHE EXPLAINED TO ME THAT THE
00:42:00GOVERNMENT CAN SOMETIMES ON YOU AND JAIL YOU, EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE
00:42:04DONE NOTHING WRONG, YOU MIGHT
00:42:06FIND YOURSELF IN THE WRONG PLACE
00:42:09AT THE WRONG TIME THE VICTIM OF
00:42:11AN OVERLY AMBITIOUS US
00:42:13POLITICIAN, OR A SHIFTING POLITICAL LANDSCAPE.
00:42:16YOU MIGHT FIND YOURSELF IN A COUNTRY THAT NO LONGER ITS OWN
00:42:21RULES OR ITSELF. SHE EXPLAINING WHY HER FORMER
00:42:25FATHER IN LAW, MY GRANDFATHER
00:42:27HOWARD, FAST ENDED UP IN FEDERAL PRISON.
00:42:30MILL POINT PRISON IN WEST
00:42:35VIRGINIA, SPECIFICALLY FOR THREE
00:42:38MONTHS IN 1950.
00:42:40I'D SAY I'M GOING KEEP GOING HERE.
00:42:44I'LL READ THE WHOLE THING. I'M. I'M NOT GOING TO READ VERY MUCH,
00:42:46BUT I REMEMBER BLANKLY AND ASKING HER THE KARMEL TASTY
00:42:52CAKES. MY NANNY MARGARET HAD BROUGHT ME ON THE WAY HOME FROM SCHOOL.
00:42:55I SPENT TOO MUCH TIME FOCUSING ON SOMETHING I WAS SPENDING TOO
00:42:58MUCH TIME FOCUSING ON SOMETHING WASN'T EATING. I HAD RED HAIR.
00:43:02MY DYSLEXIA HAD ME UNABLE TO
00:43:04READ DESPITE COMING FROM A FAMILY OF WRITERS.
00:43:08I ONE OF THOSE SMART KIDS WHO COULDN'T DO ANYTHING. I'D COME HOME FROM MY LITTLE
00:43:12LEFTY SCHOOL. THE ONE WHERE JEFFREY EPSTEIN USED TO TEACH.
00:43:16I'D COME HOME FROM THAT DAY AND WANTED TO KNOW HOW.
00:43:20HOW SOMEONE COULD BE GOOD AND
00:43:23IMPRISONED FOR DOING RIGHT THING.
00:43:26HOW COULD THE SAME GOVERNMENT THAT EMPLOYED GRANDPA AS ONE OF
00:43:30THE VOICES OF THE VOICE OF
00:43:32BROADCASTING AMERICAN IDEALS ALL
00:43:35OVER THE WORLD, THEN JUST A FEW
00:43:37YEARS LATER, THAT HE WAS SO
00:43:39DANGEROUS HE HAD TO BE JAILED AND LATER BLACKLISTED.
00:43:43MY GLAMOROUS MOTHER WAS PACKING A TRIP. AS SHE EXPLAINED THIS.
00:43:46SHE WAS ALWAYS PACKING FOR A TRIP, ALWAYS IN THE PROCESS OF HANDLING A BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF
00:43:51CLOTHING, FOLDING THEM NEATLY FOR ADVENTURES TO EXOTIC FAR OFF
00:43:54PLACES. SHE SMELLED LIKE PARISIAN
00:43:57PERFUME, A CLOUD OF ROSES TO MY NINE YEAR OLD MIND.
00:44:00SHE WAS IMPOSSIBLY ELEGANT LIKE
00:44:01A MOVIE, BUT A LITTLE FAT.
00:44:05YOUR GRANDFATHER DID GO TO JAIL,
00:44:07SHE SAID, FOLDING A BLOUSE, BUT NOT FOR ANYTHING BAD. HE WAS A HERO.
00:44:11MY MOTHER AND FATHER HAD HAD A
00:44:13FAMOUSLY ACRIMONIOUS TWO VOICE DIVORCE. SO WAS SIGNIFICANT.
00:44:17SHE RARELY PAID A COMPLEX AUNT TO ANYONE WITH A LAST NAME.
00:44:21FAST. SO IF SHE WAS WILLING TO CALL
00:44:24HOWARD FAST A HERO, HE MUST HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN ONE.
00:44:27HIS WORTH HIS WORK ETHIC WAS CERTAINLY HEROIC.
00:44:31PUBLISHED AN EYE WATERING 52
00:44:34BOOKS, WHICH, BY THE WAY, I'M ON MY BOOK, FIVE.
00:44:37SO IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING.
00:44:39HIS MOST FAMOUS WORK OF WHICH
00:44:41WAS SPARTACUS.
00:44:44BUT WHY WOULD OUR GOVERNMENT PUT
00:44:46A HERO IN PRISON? AND HOW COULD HE HAVE BEEN
00:44:50DECLARED ENEMY OF THE STATE WITHOUT EVER HAVING COMMITTED A CRIME?
00:44:53I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WAS MEANT, WHAT IT MEANT TO LIVE IN
00:44:56A COUNTRY WHOSE GOVERNMENT WASN'T JUST BLOATED,
00:45:00INCOMPETENT, BUT THAT ACTIVELY
00:45:02HATED YOU AND CONSIDERED YOU ENEMY OF THE STATE.
00:45:05IT WAS THE 1980S, A TIME OF HIGH
00:45:08AND AN ACTOR PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN.
00:45:11I LACKED IMAGINATION TO
00:45:13UNDERSTAND WHAT POSTWAR WORLD
00:45:15WAR TO AMERICA LOOKED LIKE AND WHAT IT COULD VERY EASILY LOOK
00:45:19LIKE. AGAIN, BEING ON THE WRONG OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS SOMETHING
00:45:23PEOPLE IN AUTHORITARIAN COUNTRIES UNDERSTAND WELL.
00:45:26SO DO PEOPLE OF COLOR.
00:45:28BUT I HAD GROWN UP BELIEVING BECAUSE I WAS PERMITTED TO.
00:45:32THAT THE GOVERNMENT AND THE PEOPLE WERE ON THE SAME SIDE.
00:45:34I SEE NOW THAT I WAS LUCKY TO
00:45:36NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WAS
00:45:39LIKE TO LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT CONCERTED CAN THEY CONSIDERED
00:45:42CERTAIN KINDS OF PEOPLE TO BE ENEMIES?
00:45:45MY GRANDFATHER STORY FORCED ME
00:45:48TO CONFRONT A VERY UNPLEASANT TRUTH.
00:45:51OUR COUNTRY HAD A NASTY HABIT,
00:45:54REGULARLY LOSING ITS MIND.
00:45:57MY GRANDFATHER WAS NOT A MEMBER OF THE HOLLYWOOD TEN, BUT HE WAS
00:46:00ON THE EXECUTIVE BOARD OF THE
00:46:03JOINT ANTI-FASCIST REFUGEE
00:46:07COMMITTEE. I MEAN, THIS IS NOT TOTALLY DONE.
00:46:10SO IT MEANDERS.
00:46:12EVERY FEW DECADES IN TIMES OF
00:46:14ANXIETY OR HYSTERIA OR DURING
00:46:17PERIODS IN WHICH PROGRESS IS
00:46:19THREATENING, THE COUNTRY DECIDES
00:46:21THAT MORAL SERIOUSNESS, A PUNISHABLE OFFENSE.
00:46:25I MAY KEEP GOING HERE. IT'S IMPORTANT TO MENTION THAT
00:46:28FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE OF COLOR, AMERICA HAS NEVER BEEN A.
00:46:31SOME OF THESE PEOPLE THESE IMPORTANT CIVIL RIGHTS ICONS
00:46:35ACTUALLY UP IN MY GRANDFATHER'S STORIES.
00:46:37STORY PEOPLE LIKE W.E.B. DUBOIS AND PAUL ROBESON.
00:46:41AFTER WORLD WAR TWO, THE HYSTERIA TOOK THE FORM OF AN
00:46:45ANTI-COMMUNIST PANIC WHEN HE WAS CALLED TO APPEAR BEFORE THE
00:46:48HOUSE ON ACTIVITIES COMMITTEE. HE REFUTE MY GRANDFATHER REFUSED
00:46:53TO NAME THE CONTRIBUTORS DONATED
00:46:56TO A HOME FOR ORPHANS OF VETERANS OF THE SPANISH CIVIL.
00:47:00FOR THIS HE WAS CONVICTED CONTEMPT AND SERVED THREE MONTHS
00:47:02IN PRISON.
00:47:04HIS FBI FILE I LATER SAW, THOUGH
00:47:08OF IT WAS REDACTED. HE WROTE.
00:47:10AND I'M GOING TO I WANT TO READ BECAUSE THIS IS LIKE I THINK ONE
00:47:14OF THE MOST MEANINGFUL THINGS.
00:47:16THIS IS SOMETHING HE WROTE ABOUT
00:47:18HIS FBI FILE IN THOSE PAGES.
00:47:21THERE IS NO CRIME NO BREAKING OF
00:47:24THE LAW, NO REPORT OF AN EVIL
00:47:28ACT, AN UN-AMERICAN ACT, AN INDECENT ACT.
00:47:32AND I WAS NO PARAGON OF VIRTUE,
00:47:35WHICH IS REALLY TRUE AND I DID
00:47:38ENOUGH THAT I REGRET.
00:47:39BUT THE LOUSY AND PIECES OF MY
00:47:43ARE NOWHERE IN THOSE PAGES.
00:47:45ONLY THE DEEDS AND POSITIVE
00:47:49ACTS. SPEAKING AT MEETINGS FOR HOUSE
00:47:51ANG, FOR TRADE UNIONISM, FOR
00:47:54BETTER GOVERNMENT, FOR LIBERAL
00:47:56ISM, FOR A FREE PRESS, FOR THE
00:47:58RIGHT TO ASSEMBLE, FOR HIGHER MINIMUM WAGE, FOR EQUAL JUSTICE,
00:48:02FOR BLACK, WHITE AGAINST
00:48:06LYNCHING AND AGAINST THE CREATION OF AN UNDERCLASS,
00:48:11AGAINST INJUSTICES WHEREVER WAS FOUND.
00:48:14AND FOR PEACE.
00:48:17WHAT I LOVE THAT.
00:48:19SORRY, I JUST I'M GOING TO READ
00:48:24ONE LITTLE BIT MORE. OKAY. THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT HAD
00:48:26DOCUMENTED HIS DECENCY AND THEN PUNISHED FOR IT.
00:48:30BUT WHEN I WAS A KID, I COULDN'T
00:48:32REALLY CONCEPTUALIZE LIVING IN AN AMERICA THAT HAD SO
00:48:36THOROUGHLY LOST ITS MIND. I THOUGHT LIKE SO MANY PEOPLE
00:48:39HAD, THAT THE ARC OF HISTORY BENT TOWARDS JUSTICE AND OUR
00:48:43COUNTRY HAD OUTGROWN THIS
00:48:45PARTICULAR KIND OF STUPID.
00:48:47I LACKED THE IMAGINATION TO
00:48:50CONCEIVE OF AN AMERICA THAT WENT
00:48:52BACKWARDS, THAT INCLUDED
00:48:54REVERSALS LIKE THE END OF ROE OR ROLLING BACK OF CERTAIN CIVIL RIGHTS.
00:48:58IT HAPPENED AGAIN. IT AN ABERRATION.
00:49:00IT WAS THE BEGINNING OF A PATTERN.
00:49:03IT WASN'T MY FRIEND. THE JOURNALIST DON LEMON,
00:49:07ARRESTED IN THE LOBBY OF A HOTEL
00:49:09IN BEVERLY HILLS THAT IT ALL CAME INTO FOCUS.
00:49:13IT'S EASY TO BE HYPERBOLIC. I WAS GUILTY OF HYPERBOLE DURING
00:49:17TRUMP'S FIRST ADMINISTRATION, WHICH THE HOUSE JANEK COMPARED
00:49:20TO WHERE WE ARE NOW. YOU'LL REMEMBER THAT IN TRUMP'S FIRST TERM, THERE WERE A LOT OF
00:49:24MEAN TWEETS AND DUMB POLICY. BUT HE WASN'T ACTUALLY ABLE TO
00:49:27DO A OF THE THINGS HE THREATENED TO DO OR, WANTED TO DO.
00:49:31THERE WAS A FEELING THAT THINGS
00:49:33WERE STILL NORMAL ISH ISH AND.
00:49:39AMERICA IN 2016 WAS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MEDIA ENVIRONMENT.
00:49:43WE STILL HAD LOTS OF NEWSPAPERS AND REPORTED WARS BREAKING REAL NEWS.
00:49:47MILLIONS PEOPLE WATCHED RACHEL MADDOW. THERE WAS A FEELING THAT THIS
00:49:50MIGHT BE KIND OF NIGHTMARE, THAT
00:49:52THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WOULD COME
00:49:54TO THEIR SENSES AT ANY MINUTE.
00:49:57NO ONE CAME TO SAVE US.
00:49:59MUELLER DIDN'T SAVE US. NO ONE CAME TO SAVE US.
00:50:04DONALD TRUMP WAS REELECTED, AND THIS TIME HE WON THE POPULAR VOTE.
00:50:09IT WAS A STRANGE SINCE TO WATCH
00:50:11THE AMERICAN PEOPLE REJECT
00:50:14EVERYTHING THEY'D SEEN THEIR OWN
00:50:16EYES AND, EVERYTHING THEY'D
00:50:18HEARD WITH OWN EARS TO DELETE
00:50:23DUE TO ELECT THAT GUY AGAIN.
00:50:25ANYWAY, SO THAT'S JUST THE BEGINNING.
00:50:28BUT I WANTED TO JUST WRITE A
00:50:30LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THE STORIES
00:50:34OF THAT TIME AND THESE STORIES
00:50:38CAN REALLY, THEY REALLY DO RELATE TO RIGHT NOW.
00:50:41AND SO THAT'S WHAT I TO TALK
00:50:46ABOUT.
00:50:51WELL, THANKS ALL THREE OF YOU
00:50:55FOR THOSE POWERFUL STORIES.
00:50:57I FEAR I MAY BE UP HERE AS THE
00:51:01REPRESENTATIVE J. EDGAR HOOVER, WHICH IS AN POSITION TO BE IN.
00:51:04BUT THIS IS NOT FACT GOING TO BE
00:51:06AN INTEGRAL.
00:51:08BUT I HOPE THAT WE HAVE A
00:51:10CONVERSATION UP HERE ALSO THAT
00:51:12THOSE OF YOU OUT THERE WHO HAVE QUESTIONS CAN WRITE THEM ON
00:51:16THESE PIECES OF PAPER, AND THEY
00:51:18WILL SOMEHOW IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS,
00:51:22MIGRATE WAY UP HERE AS TALK THIS
00:51:27SEMESTER AT YALE.
00:51:28I TEACHING A NEW CLASS IS CALLED
00:51:31THE UN-AMERICAN CENTURY.
00:51:34IT'S A PARTNER, A GENERAL CLASS
00:51:36THAT I TEACH THE AMERICAN
00:51:38CENTURY THAT'S SORT THE SURVEY
00:51:41OF 20TH CENTURY POLITICS. WE USUALLY GET THEM.
00:51:44AND THIS IS A CLASS THAT ABOUT
00:51:48THESE STORIES, THAT IS ABOUT THE
00:51:50WAYS THAT THESE BATTLES OVER
00:51:52COMMUNISM AND ANTI-CAA ISM
00:51:55REALLY STRUCTURED EVERYTHING
00:51:57THING ABOUT AMERICAN POLITICS
00:51:59FOR DECADE AFTER AFTER DECADE.
00:52:04AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MADE
00:52:05ME WANT TO THAT CLASS IS THAT I
00:52:09THINK MANY OF STORIES WHICH WERE
00:52:11SO CENTRAL TO THE POLITICS OF
00:52:15MANY GENERATIONS ARE FACT FADING
00:52:19THAT POST-COLD WAR GENERATION
00:52:22MIGHT KNOW OF THE OUTLINES. THEY MIGHT KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT
00:52:26JOE MCCARTHY. BUT THE CENTRALITY AND POWER OF
00:52:30A LOT OF THESE CONFLICTS, I THINK IS IS BEING LOST.
00:52:34SO THANK YOU TO, COLUMBIA, FOR
00:52:36ORGANIZING THIS EVENT.
00:52:38FOR ALL OF YOU, FOR BEING HERE
00:52:42TO TALK ABOUT ALL OF THIS.
00:52:45SO ONE THING THAT STRUCK ME
00:52:47ABOUT ALL THREE OF YOUR STORIES
00:52:51IS THAT WHILE WE SAY THAT WE ARE
00:52:53UP HERE TO TALK MCCARTHYISM,
00:52:57ACTUALLY JOSEPH MCCARTHY DOESN'T
00:52:59SHOW UP IN ANY OF THESE STORIES.
00:53:01YOUR PARENTS WERE PROSECUTED
00:53:05AND, EXECUTED BY THE COURT
00:53:08SYSTEM, BY THE NEW YORK
00:53:12JUDICIARY BY THE FBI IN YOUR TWO
00:53:16CASES, WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT THE HOUSE COMMITTEE ON
00:53:19UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IS RIGHT HERE TO ASK.
00:53:22AND SO I GUESS I WILL PUT TO YOU.
00:53:25YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
00:53:27STRIKES ME IS HOW WIDESPREAD SO
00:53:31MUCH OF THESE STORIES ARE.
00:53:33AND IF WE DISINTER JOE MCCARTHY,
00:53:35WHO AS YOU NOTED GOT CENSURED IN
00:53:381954, THEN WE SEE ACTUALLY A MUCH LONGER AND MUCH MORE
00:53:42CONTINUOUS STORY IN THESE.
00:53:44SO I'M WONDERING YOU CAN TAKE US
00:53:48INTO I GUESS PARTICULARLY DR.
00:53:52PATTERSON AND DR. MEEROPOL INTO
00:53:54THE LATE 1950S INTO KIND OF THE
00:53:58WAY THAT THESE STORIES SHAPED
00:54:01YOUR LIVES PAST THE REALLY ACUTE
00:54:03MOMENT, WHAT THESE ALLOWED YOU TO SEE ABOUT THE WORLD AROUND
00:54:07YOU, WHAT THEY ALLOWED TO THINK
00:54:09ABOUT, ABOUT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT
00:54:12AND KIND OF HOW THIS CONTINUED
00:54:15ON THIS ACUTE MOMENT.
00:54:18IF YOU THINK THAT IT DIDN'T. HELLO.
00:54:23CAN HEAR. YEAH, I WOULD SAY THAT THE MOST
00:54:28IMPORTANT THING IT DID IS IT MADE US SKEPTICAL. AND I HAVE TO SAY, BEING ON THE
00:54:32PANEL WITH MOLLY, I HAVE TO SAY
00:54:34I LEARNED ABOUT RECONSTRUCTION FROM HER GRANDFATHER'S NOVEL,
00:54:37FREEDOM ROAD, AND I GO TO
00:54:39GRADUATE TO UNDERGRADUATE SCHOOL
00:54:42AND THE HISTORICAL PROFESSION
00:54:44HAD STILL CONCLUDED IT RECONSTRUCTION WITH BLACKS.
00:54:48THE RIGHT TO VOTE WAS A TERRIBLE TRAGEDY FOR THE SOUTH AND THE
00:54:52SOUTH WAS REDEEMED WHEN THE KU KLUX KLAN DROVE THE BLACK FOLKS
00:54:55BACK INTO CABINS AND I OF COURSE
00:54:58THANK GOD, WAS INOCULATED HOWARD
00:55:01FAST NOVEL FREEDOM ROAD GROWING
00:55:05UP IN THAT KIND OF FAMILY. CREATED A SKEPTICISM WHICH
00:55:09PERMITTED PEOPLE LIKE ME TO LOOK PAST WHAT ESTABLISHMENT WAS SAYING.
00:55:13TRY TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES, TRY TO BE WILLING TO FIND THE
00:55:17FACTS THAT WERE AVAILABLE. AND I THINK IT MADE ME SANE TO
00:55:21BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
00:55:24I WOULD SAY FOR ME IN TERMS OF
00:55:29THE TREATMENT, AFRICAN-AMERICANS
00:55:32BY THE GOVERNMENT OR CERTAINLY
00:55:35CONDONED BY THE GOVERNMENT, BOTH
00:55:37ON A MUNICIPAL CITY LEVEL, ON A
00:55:40STATE LEVEL, ON A FEDERAL LEVEL,
00:55:44THE CASES WHERE BLACK MEN WERE
00:55:48ACCUSED OF RAPE AND THEN WERE
00:55:50LEGALLY MURDERED BY THE STATE
00:55:52WAS SOMETHING I GREW UP KNOWING
00:55:56ABOUT BECAUSE MY FATHER WAS IN IT.
00:55:58AND I THINK IN IN THAT CASE, IT
00:56:02FOR ME IT REALLY MADE ME WANT TO
00:56:06DO ABOUT THAT TO TO BE A PART OF
00:56:09FIGHTING AGAINST. AND THEN MY MOTHER, WHO STARTS
00:56:13THIS ORGANIZATION, BLACK WOMEN,
00:56:15WHO SAY, WE ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, YOU BLACK
00:56:19WOMEN ARE ALSO WHEN THEY OPPOSE
00:56:21BEING RAPED BY A WHITE MEN. THEN THEY GO TO JAIL.
00:56:25SO THAT'S WHAT I WAS INSTILLED
00:56:30WITH. AND WHAT MOTIVATES ME NOW, YOU
00:56:34KNOW, AND THE PIECE OF IT, I
00:56:36GUESS, IS THAT MY PARENTS HAD EARLY ON GONE TO THE SOVIET
00:56:40UNION. MY MOTHER HAD GONE IN 1932.
00:56:43SHE TOOK A GROUP OF.
00:56:4722 AFRICAN-AMERICANS TO MAKE A FILM THAT WAS NEVER MADE.
00:56:52BUT SHE GOT A CHANCE TO SEE BOTH MOSCOW.
00:56:55BUT THEY ALSO WENT SOUTH IN THE
00:56:58SOVIET UNION AND THEY SAW
00:57:02PEOPLES WHO WERE COLONIZED REALLY BY, YOU KNOW, THE
00:57:06RUSSIANS, WHO PRACTICED WHAT WAS
00:57:10CALLED RUSSIAN CHAUVINISM.
00:57:12AND SHE SAW THEM LIBERATE. DID YOU KNOW THAT UNDER THE
00:57:15CZAR, THAT IS AND SHE SAW THEM LIBERATED, THEY WERE JUST BEING
00:57:19LIBERATED WHEN. THEY WENT THERE IN 1932 AND SHE
00:57:22SAW PEOPLE WHO HAD NO ALPHABET BEING, YOU KNOW, NOW HAVING AN
00:57:26ALPHABET WOMEN WHO COULDN'T WHO COULDN'T EVEN LEAVE THE HOME
00:57:30WITHOUT PERMISSION ARE NOW GOING TO UNIVERSITY CITIES.
00:57:32UNIVERSITIES WERE BUILT.
00:57:34THIS IS AFTER THE REVOLUTION.
00:57:37AND SO SHE SHE SEES WHAT'S
00:57:39POSSIBLE FOR THE SOUTH, WHAT'S POSSIBLE FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS.
00:57:43AND SHE COMES BACK AND JOINS THE COMMUNIST PARTY AND.
00:57:47WHEN MY FATHER WENT IN THE 1930S, LATER ROSE AND THIRTIES
00:57:51TO GO TO THE SCHOOL, THE TOILING
00:57:55WORKERS OF THE EAST TO LEARN TO
00:57:58BE ANTI-COMMUNIST ACTIVISTS, SHE
00:58:00LEARNED AND AND CAME BACK AND
00:58:04JOINED STRUGGLE TOO, AND LEADS
00:58:06STRUGGLE TO FREE THE SCOTTSBORO DEFENDANTS.
00:58:09SO I GREW IN A HOME WHERE THAT
00:58:11WAS HAPPENING AND IT IT'S IT'S
00:58:15IT'S FINGERPRINTS ARE ALL OVER ME.
00:58:20YEAH. I ACTUALLY HAVE A LITTLE BIT
00:58:23ABOUT MY GRANDFATHER WHEN HE MET
00:58:24SO I THAT'S SORT OF INTERESTING.
00:58:29OKAY SO HE SAID IN MY SINGLE ENCOUNTER WITH THE OLD MONSTER I
00:58:35TRIED VAINLY TO INSTRUCT HIM
00:58:37SOME OF THE MORE OBVIOUS TROOPS
00:58:39OF AMERICAN HISTORY, WHICH I DON'T DOUBT HE DID, IN RESPONSE
00:58:44TO WHICH MCCARTHY IN A TOWERING
00:58:46RAGE WORE TO ME TO GO WRITE
00:58:50BOOK, I WROTE MORE THAN HE ASKED FOR.
00:58:54BUT OF THAT LATER.
00:59:00THAT IS A GREAT STORY. KEEP THAT ONE IN WHATEVER
00:59:03CUTTING YOU DO, KEEP THAT ONE THERE. I'M GLAD THAT THE THE SOVIET
00:59:08UNION UP WHICH WAS ALSO NOT
00:59:12SOMETHING THAT WE HEARD A LOT
00:59:13ABOUT IN YOUR EARLIER COMMENTS
00:59:17AND YOU KNOW THINKING ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE
00:59:19COMMUNIST PARTY AND THE SOVIET UNION WHICH BECAME SO MUCH AT
00:59:23THE HEART OF THE LOGIC THE
00:59:25POSTWAR RED I GUESS IT SEEMS
00:59:30LIKE THERE ARE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS THINKING ABOUT
00:59:34THIS. ONE IS THAT AS SOME WOULD HAVE
00:59:37FRAMED IT, IT WAS THE GREAT
00:59:39TRAGEDY OF AMERICAN COMMUNISM IN
00:59:42THE SENSE THAT COMMUNAL STATES
00:59:45WERE FIGHTING FOR A NOBLE AT
00:59:49HOME BUT WERE TO TO ATTACK
00:59:53BECAUSE THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SOVIET UNION.
00:59:55THERE IS AN ARGUMENT THAT SAYS ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, THE PRESENCE
00:59:59OF THE SOVIET UNION AND DOCTOR PATERSON, YOU WERE SUGGESTING
01:00:02THIS GAVE WORLD OF AMERICAN
01:00:06COMMUNISM A KIND OF AN ENERGY
01:00:09AND A SENSE.
01:00:11THE FORWARD MOTION OF A KIND OF
01:00:13MODEL, AT LEAST IMAGINED MODEL,
01:00:15IF NOT ALWAYS AND FREQUENTLY A
01:00:20GREAT LIVING MODEL.
01:00:22SO I WONDER HOW YOU THINK ABOUT THAT AND KIND OF WHAT YOU
01:00:27LEARNED ABOUT THE USSR FROM THE
01:00:31THIRTIES THROUGH SIXTIES, RIGHT? THESE ARE THE PEAK YEARS IN
01:00:36WHICH ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS ARE REALLY FRONT AND CENTER IN
01:00:39AMERICAN POLITY.
01:00:42YOU HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I MEAN, I'M NOT SURE HOW TO
01:00:46ANSWER THAT AND YOU KNOW, IN 2
01:00:50SECONDS OR LESS.
01:00:54I WENT TO MEDICAL SCHOOL IN THE
01:00:56SOVIET UNION IN THE 1960S AND
01:01:04THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS, I THINK.
01:01:06FIRST IS I DON'T THINK THAT WE.
01:01:09WHEN THE THE RUSSIAN REVOLUTION
01:01:12TOOK PLACE IN 1917, HOW ACTUALLY
01:01:15BACKWARDS IN TERMS OF TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT, THE
01:01:19SOVIET UNION REALLY WAS.
01:01:21SO THE SOVIET UNION WAS AGRARIAN
01:01:25COUNTRY RURAL WITH A THE
01:01:27MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION
01:01:31UNLETTERED AND COMING THE 20TH
01:01:35CENTURY THEY STILL LIVED IN
01:01:37BASICALLY SMALL AND ON FARMS AND
01:01:41FARMS. SO WEREN'T ANYWHERE NEAR
01:01:45DEVELOPED EVEN AT THE TURN OF 20TH CENTURY AS WESTERN CAPITALS
01:01:51WERE IN THEY DIDN'T BENEFIT FROM
01:01:53FROM SLAVERY, THE ENSLAVEMENT OF
01:01:55OF MILLIONS OF AFRICANS AND THE
01:01:58GROWTH OF COTTON WHICH BUILT NOT
01:02:00ONLY THE UNITED BUT BUILT EUROPE. WELL, THEY DIDN'T THAT.
01:02:04SO COMING THE 20TH CENTURY
01:02:06THEY'RE VERY BACKWARD IN TERMS
01:02:09OF TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT.
01:02:11SO THIS WHOLE NOTION THAT WE
01:02:14HAVE A NEMESIS THAT IS OF OUR
01:02:17MIRROR IMAGE THAT'S REALLY TRYING TO TAKE OVER AND AND TURN
01:02:21AROUND THE AMERICAN WAY OF KNOW THIS WONDERFUL AMERICAN WAY OF
01:02:24LIFE AND WE HAVE TO HIDE OUR
01:02:27DESKS, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO BOMB US AND WE'RE GOING
01:02:30TO SOMEHOW THE CHILDREN IN SCHOOL AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY
01:02:33OF YOU IN THE AUDIENCE THROUGH THAT OF, YOU KNOW, WE WERE
01:02:37DRILLED, BUT WHEN I GOT THERE IN
01:02:401960 AND THEY WERE, WHAT, 15
01:02:44YEARS OUT OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR, WHERE THEY WERE TOTALLY
01:02:48DECIMATED. STALINGRAD LOOKS LIKE GAZA TODAY.
01:02:51WHAT GAZA LOOKS LIKE TODAY, THAT'S WHAT STALINGRAD LOOKED LIKE.
01:02:55AND A LOT OF THE WESTERN OF THE
01:02:57COUNTRY WHERE, THE NAZI ARMY HAD
01:03:01HAD INVADED, SAY SO THEY, THEY,
01:03:10THEY THEY TRIED, I THINK, TO
01:03:14DEVELOP A WORLD, TO MAKE A SYSTEM TO DEVELOP A SYSTEM AND A
01:03:19COUNTRY AND A WAY OF THINKING
01:03:21THAT WAS INDIVIDUAL, THAT WAS
01:03:28COLLECTIVE OF THAT WAS NOT ABOUT GREED AND PERSONAL IN GRAND
01:03:34EASEMENT. AND THEY WERE FOUGHT EVERY STEP
01:03:37OF THE WAY, HAD THEY BEEN LEFT ALONE TO DO IT, MAYBE THEY WOULD
01:03:41HAVE TURNED OUT DIFFERENTLY. BUT THEY WERE THEY WERE
01:03:46CONSTANTLY BEING HOUNDED,
01:03:49HARASSED AND SURVEILLED BY. THE WESTERN GOVERNMENTS THAT
01:03:52DIDN'T WANT THEM TO DEVELOP
01:03:56WANTED TO FAIL, TRIED IT AT AT
01:03:58EVERY POINT. I MEAN, HITLER TURNED ON THE
01:04:02SOVIET UNION, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE WAS SUPPOSED DO.
01:04:06HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DEFEAT
01:04:09COMMUNISM, YOU KNOW, HE WAS
01:04:12FINANCED BY FORD.
01:04:14YOU KNOW, HE WASN'T HE?
01:04:17HE WAS FINANCED BY THE WEST. SO HE HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DEFEAT
01:04:22COMMUNIST THEM, BUT HE FAILED. BUT THE COST THAT IT TOOK THE
01:04:26UNION TO STOP, TO STOP HITLER WAS GREAT.
01:04:30SO IN 1960, WHEN I GOT THERE, TO
01:04:32ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I WAS
01:04:36DUMBFOUNDED BECAUSE I WAS
01:04:38EXPECTING THIS MIRROR IMAGE OF
01:04:40THE UNITED STATES IN TERMS OF
01:04:43DEVELOPMENT, BECAUSE WE KEPT
01:04:45BEING HEARING THEY'RE COMING FOR US, THEY'RE COMING FOR US. WELL, HOW COULD THEY COME FOR US
01:04:49IF DIDN'T HAVE THE WHEREWITHAL TO DO THAT.
01:04:52AND I GOT THERE AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE WHEREWITHAL DO THAT AT ALL.
01:04:58SO YEAH, THEY MADE LOT OF
01:05:02MISTAKES. WOULD THEY HAVE MADE AS MANY HAD
01:05:04THEY NOT BEEN THE ENEMY OF THE
01:05:07WEST AND THE WEST, TRYING AT
01:05:09EVERY SINGLE TURN TO SABOTAGE
01:05:11THEM, TO INFILTRATE THEM TO TURN IT AROUND?
01:05:15I DON'T THINK SO. I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD HAVE MADE AS MANY MISTAKES, BUT WE
01:05:19KNOW. BUT THE FACT THAT THEY WERE
01:05:22TRYING TO CREATE A NEW WAY OF
01:05:24LIVING AND A NEW WAY OF THINKING ABOUT HOW TO LIVE, I THINK
01:05:28THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TO DO TODAY.
01:05:30THAT'S WHAT THESE YOUNG PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO DO TODAY. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING.
01:05:33THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TO HEAR ABOUT WHAT WHAT ARE THE POSSIBLE
01:05:38OTHER WAYS OF LIVING.
01:05:40BECAUSE ONE ISN'T ISN'T ISN'T
01:05:46HAPPENING.
01:05:48AND IS THIS THING WORKING OKAY,
01:05:52I GREW UP BELIEVING THAT THE
01:05:56SOVIET UNION WAS THE WAVE OF THE FUTURE IN THE 1950S, FOLLOWING
01:06:01KHRUSHCHEV'S AND FOLLOWING THE SINO-SOVIET DISPUTE AND JOINING
01:06:05FORCES, WHICH CONSIDERED SORRY,
01:06:07MARY LOUISE, THE AMERICAN COMMUNIST PARTY, A BUNCH OF
01:06:10STATE OLD DUDDIES, I BECAME A
01:06:15DIFFERENT KIND OF PERSON AND I
01:06:17WAS 20, 20 HINDSIGHT, EXCEPT
01:06:21FACT THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF
01:06:23TERRIBLE THINGS THAT WENT UNDER
01:06:25STALIN, UNDER COLLECTIVIZATION
01:06:28AND I REMEMBER HAVING A VERY
01:06:31INTERESTING FIGHT WITH MY FATHER, MEEROPOL.
01:06:33I SAID, YES, I AGREE STYLE AND
01:06:37BOUGHT A WHOLE TWO YEARS BY SIGNING NON-AGGRESSION PACT WITH
01:06:42HITLER AND THAT MAYBE SAVED SOVIET UNION FROM BEING
01:06:45CONQUERED WHEN HITLER INVADED. BUT WHY DID THE AMERICAN
01:06:50COMMUNIST OPPOSE THE WAR?
01:06:53WHY DID THE AMERICAN COMMUNIST
01:06:55PARTY SING SONGS LIKE FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT WENT THE PEOPLE, AND
01:06:59SADLY SHOOK HIS HEAD. THESE ARE THE WORDS HE SAID.
01:07:03I WAR, AND SO DOES ELEANOR. BUT WE BE SAFE TILL EVERYBODY'S DEAD.
01:07:06AND THEN AFTER JUNE 1941,
01:07:10FLIPPED 180 AND WAS IN FAVOR OF JOINING THE WAR, I SAID, DAD,
01:07:13WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE AMERICAN COMMUNIST PARTY? HE HE COULDN'T GET HIS MIND
01:07:17AROUND THAT. SO THAT WAS WHERE I WAS FROM.
01:07:20SO I ACCEPT FACT THAT THE
01:07:24AMERICAN COMMUNIST PARTY, FROM TIME TO TIME ITS LEADERSHIP,
01:07:28DECIDED THAT WHATEVER THE SOVIET UNION DID WAS THE RIGHT THING,
01:07:31AND THAT HELPED HURT THE AMERICAN COMMUNIST PARTY HERE AT
01:07:34HOME. THEY WERE GREAT DURING WORLD WAR TWO, THEY WERE GREAT FIGHTING
01:07:37FOR CIVIL RIGHTS FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS. THEY WERE NOT SO GREAT IN THE
01:07:41PERIOD OF THE NAZI SOVIET PACT WHEN THEY ATTACKED ROOSEVELT AS
01:07:44A WARMONGER. SO ALL THOSE THINGS, AMERICAN
01:07:47COMMUNISTS, SOME THEM MADE
01:07:51MISTAKES AND SOME OF THEM, BY THE WAY, QUIT BECAUSE. THEY FELT THAT THE COMMUNIST
01:07:55PARTY HAD ABANDONED THE ANTIFASCIST STRUGGLE.
01:07:58SO THAT'S WHERE I AM COMING FROM.
01:08:01BUT VERY IMPORTANT.
01:08:03THE REASON THE AMERICAN
01:08:05GOVERNMENT DECIDED THE 1950S AND
01:08:09PATRICK LEE, THE 1960S, THAT
01:08:12APARTHEID, AMERICAN STYLE HAD TO BE ABOLISHED.
01:08:16THAT SOUTHERN REGIONAL FASCISM
01:08:19TO BE DEFEATED IS OF THE
01:08:23EXISTENCE OF THE SOVIET UNION BECAUSE.
01:08:25IT WAS A BATTLE FOR HEARTS AND MINDS IN THIRD WORLD.
01:08:29AND IN THAT CONTEXT, THE
01:08:31AMERICAN RACE SYSTEM IN THE
01:08:34SOUTH WAS DESTROYED, DYING.
01:08:36THE AMERICAN IMAGE.
01:08:38SO YOU CAN CRITICIZE THE SOVIET UNION ALL YOU WANT CAN CRITICIZE
01:08:42THE AMERICAN COMMUNIST PARTY ALL YOU WANT.
01:08:44THE EXISTENCE OF THE SOVIET
01:08:47UNION IS PROBABLY WHY THE
01:08:51ESTABLISHMENT, THE UNITED STATES, OPTED FOR THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT TO SUPPORT
01:08:55MARTIN LUTHER KING OF SUPPRESSING HIM.
01:08:58SO I GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR THAT,
01:08:59JUST FOR AND RACISM WAS THE
01:09:03ACHILLES HEEL. I'M JUST GOING TO ADD.
01:09:07MY GRANDFATHER WAS VERY LATE TO DISAVOW STALIN.
01:09:09HE WAS THE LAST LIVING RECIPIENT
01:09:11OF THE STALIN PEACE PRIZE. IT SHOWS A LITTLE OXYMORONIC.
01:09:17IN 1953, BUT THERE A LOT OF
01:09:20PEOPLE WHO GOT THAT YEAR. SO STALIN WAS SORT OF SO HE
01:09:24WASN'T THE ONLY AND WE HAVE THE
01:09:26PRIZE, BUT WE CAN'T FIND IT RIGHT NOW.
01:09:29IT'S IN MY FATHER'S GARAGE. GREAT.
01:09:34WELL, WANT TO TURN TO SOME THE
01:09:36QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE AND. I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO
01:09:40MAYBE COMBINE HERE A LITTLE BIT.
01:09:44SO THERE ARE A SET OF QUESTIONS
01:09:46THAT ARE ABOUT COMPARING THE LEFT OF, THE PERIOD OF YOUR
01:09:52PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS TO THE
01:09:54LEFT AS IT EXISTS TODAY. A FEW PEOPLE PICKED UP ON YOUR
01:10:00CLAIM MICHAEL THAT TODAY'S LEFT
01:10:04IS STRONGER THAN IT WAS IN
01:10:08MID-CENTURY AMERICA. THEY SEEM TO BE QUESTIONING THAT
01:10:13IDEA. BUT THEN THERE ARE ALSO A LOT OF
01:10:15QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT THE
01:10:19LEGACIES SOCIALISM OR THE OTHER
01:10:22ISMS AND MOVEMENTS OF THAT
01:10:24EARLIER PERIOD WHAT DO THEY MEAN IN THE 21ST CENTURY?
01:10:27WHAT ARE THEY USEFUL FOR? WHAT IS PASSÉ NOW?
01:10:32WHAT SHOULD BE HELD ON TO?
01:10:33WHAT SHOULD BE TOSSED ASIDE?
01:10:37ALL RIGHT.
01:10:39WELL I WOULD SAY THAT WHEN I THE
01:10:41OPPOSITION TO AUTHORITARIANISM,
01:10:45I INCLUDE EVERYBODY FROM BERNIE
01:10:48SANDERS AND AOC AND PEOPLE WHO
01:10:50ARE OUT DEMONSTRATING AGAINST
01:10:53GENOCIDE IN PALESTINE ALL THE
01:10:55WAY UP TO THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BECAUSE I
01:11:00HOPE, I HOPE I'M RIGHT. THE LEADERSHIP OF THE DEMOCRATIC
01:11:04PARTY WHO SPEND TOO MUCH TIME
01:11:06ATTACKING THE PROGRESSIVES NOW
01:11:08REALIZE IN KIND OF A NEAR-DEATH
01:11:11EXPERIENCE THAT IF THEY DON'T MAKE COMMON CAUSE WITH
01:11:13PROGRESSIVES AND THAT MEANS ALL OF THEM, THEN THEY WILL BE UNDER
01:11:18THE OF TRUMPIAN FASCISM ALONG WITH THE REST OF US.
01:11:22AND I'LL GIVE YOU A BEAUTIFUL EXAMPLE.
01:11:24I WAS TO SPEAK AT A KING'S DAY
01:11:29RALLY, AND THE PERSON WHO
01:11:32INTRODUCED ME INTRODUCED ME AS PARENTS SON.
01:11:34AND I SHARED, I'M GOING TO START CRYING.
01:11:38I SHARED THE PLATFORM WITH THE
01:11:40LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK
01:11:42BECAUSE WE'RE ALL IN THIS
01:11:46BLEEPING FIGHT TOGETHER AND.
01:11:49I THINK I HOPE AND I PRAY THAT THE LEADERSHIP OF, THE
01:11:53DEMOCRATIC PARTY, WILL STOP TRYING TO BEAT DOWN THE QUOTE
01:11:57UNQUOTE, EXTREME LEFT.
01:11:59AND I HOPE THE EXTREME WILL STOP HAVING PURITY.
01:12:02LET LITMUS TESTS BECAUSE THIS IS
01:12:06A FIVE ALARM FIRE. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE GOT TO BE
01:12:13ON.
01:12:19YOU WANT TO GO NEXT.
01:12:24I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF LESSONS FROM, THE PERIOD OF MCCARTHY
01:12:28THAT CAN TAKE AT THIS MOMENT AND. ACTUALLY, I SPEND A LOT OF TIME
01:12:32THINKING ABOUT LIKE, IS THIS WORSE THAN THE HOUSE ON
01:12:35UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES. IT'S TRUE.
01:12:38THE LEFT THEN WAS SUCH A SMALL
01:12:41GROUP AND THEY HAD BEEN SO OPPRESSED. I MEAN, THE LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT
01:12:46SURVEILLANCE THAT YOU GUYS WENT THROUGH AND THEN MY GRANDFATHER WENT THROUGH IT.
01:12:50MY WOULD TELL STORIES OF THEM
01:12:50THROWING ROCKS AT HER WINDOW
01:12:54AND, YOU KNOW, JUST THE HARASSMENT.
01:12:57THEN, YOU KNOW, MY GRANDPARENTS, NO ONE, MY GRANDPA, THEY GOT OUT OF JAIL.
01:13:01THEY COULDN'T GET PASSPORTS AND THEY REALLY DID A LOT OF STUFF
01:13:03THAT EVEN A VERY CONSERVATIVE COURT LATER RULED THAT YOU
01:13:08COULDN'T TAKE AWAY PEOPLE'S PASSPORTS.
01:13:10SO THERE REALLY WAS I THINK THAT
01:13:14IT WAS MUCH MORE OPPRESSIVE IN A CERTAIN WAY.
01:13:16BUT I ALSO THINK WHAT WE SEE RIGHT NOW IN THE WAY IS THAT
01:13:21VIDEOS SURPRISED WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TRANSPARENT SEE, WHEN IT
01:13:24COMES TO THE ALGORITHMS THAT SHOW US OUR NEWS, YOU KNOW, WE
01:13:27JUST WE DON'T KNOW HOW WE DON'T
01:13:29KNOW IN A CERTAIN WAY IS SORT OF
01:13:32SIMILAR TO THE FIFTIES.
01:13:34SO I THINK I THINK THOUGH, THIS
01:13:36IDEA THAT IT'S THAT AMERICAN
01:13:38DEMOCRACY IS BROADLY POPULAR AND
01:13:41THAT THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE WHO
01:13:43WANT TO KEEP IT THEN WHO WANT TO
01:13:45GET RID OF IT TO HELP DONALD
01:13:47TRUMP, I THINK IS REALLY TRUE.
01:13:49AND WHAT I'VE SEEN JUST FROM BEING ON THE GROUND TALKING TO
01:13:53PEOPLE VERSUS TALKING TO
01:13:55LEADERSHIP OR PEOPLE IN OF THESE
01:13:57MORE ISOLATED SPACES, IS THAT
01:14:00THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE FURIOUS
01:14:04LIKE FURIOUS. AND I ACTUALLY SAY THIS TO DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP ALL THE
01:14:07TIME, I'M LIKE, YOU GUYS DON'T UNDERSTAND THE TEA IS COMING FOR
01:14:12YOU. YOU KNOW, 30% OF ALL DEMOCRATS
01:14:13RIGHT NOW, A PRIMARY CONTEST,
01:14:1930% THAT CRAZY LIKE THERE IS A REAL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE
01:14:23MUCH MADDER THAN THE DEMOCRATIC
01:14:25PARTY UNDERSTANDS. AND SO I DO THINK THERE'S A
01:14:28BROADER COALITION. AND BUT I ALSO THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE REAL COME TO JESUS
01:14:33MOMENT IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY,
01:14:35WHICH WILL BE INCREDIBLY INTERESTING AND STRANGE.
01:14:41ALEVI.
01:14:45WE CAN KEEP GOING, KNOW. LET'S KEEP GOING.
01:14:48OKAY, GREAT.
01:14:50ONE OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS THAT
01:14:53SORT OF DREW ON ALL OF THESE IS
01:14:57I GUESS A QUESTION ABOUT CHARACTER. ONE THING THAT ALL OF THESE
01:15:03STORIES HAVE IN COMMON, YOUR PARENTS MOST DRAMATICALLY,
01:15:05MICHAEL, IS THAT THEY ARE ALL
01:15:09STORIES, PEOPLE WHO REFUSED TO NAME NAMES.
01:15:12SO NAMING NAMES WAS THE CURRENCY
01:15:16OF THE RED SCARE RIGHT.
01:15:18SO SOMEONE WOULD BE BROUGHT IN FRONT OF CONGRESS OR BE BROUGHT
01:15:22FOR AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FBI
01:15:24AND WHAT WAS OFTEN WANTED IN
01:15:26THAT SETTING WAS NOT ONLY
01:15:28CONFESSION OF GUILT WHICH MIGHT
01:15:31MEAN A VARIETY OF THINGS.
01:15:33MEMBERSHIP IN THE COMMUNIST
01:15:35PARTY, BUT WOULD ALSO THEN WANT
01:15:38THE DISCLOSURE OF NAMES OF OTHER
01:15:40PEOPLE, PEOPLE YOU KNEW GUILT BY
01:15:44ASSOCIATION WHO WERE ON THE SAME MEMBERSHIP LISTS, PEOPLE YOU WERE CONSPIRED WITH.
01:15:47AND IT'S THAT ALL THREE SETS OF
01:15:51RELATIVES UP HERE WERE PEOPLE
01:15:52WHO WENT TO JAIL AND IN THE CASE
01:15:56OF YOUR PARENTS, MICHAEL, WERE EXECUTED BECAUSE THEY DID NOT
01:16:00NAME NAMES. AND SO THE QUESTION HERE IS,
01:16:03WHERE DO YOU THINK THAT KIND OF
01:16:06POLITICAL COURAGE COMES FROM?
01:16:09WAS IT THE CONTEXT OF THAT MOMENT?
01:16:13WAS IT SOME SET OF BELIEFS ABOUT
01:16:17WORLD AND THE FUTURE AND THE WAY
01:16:19WOULD JUDGE THESE STORIES, WAS
01:16:22IT SOME SET, YOU KNOW, INNER
01:16:26QUALITIES WHY DIDN'T THEY NAME
01:16:30NAMES? I WANT TO GO FIRST. IT'S PROBABLY COMBINATION OF ALL
01:16:33OF THOSE.
01:16:38THESE WERE YOU KNOW COURAGE WAS
01:16:40A PART OF WHO THEY WERE BUT THEY WERE ALSO COURAGE IN COMMUNITY
01:16:44WITH OTHERS WHO HAD THAT SAME
01:16:49COURAGE. AND I THINK IN THE IN THE IN
01:16:54TERMS OF MY PARENTS, IT'S
01:16:56BECAUSE WERE IN COMMUNITY WITH
01:17:02OTHERS THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO BE AS COURAGEOUS AS THEY WERE.
01:17:05BUT I THINK THEY WERE ALSO AS
01:17:10THEY COURAGEOUS AND THEY HATED
01:17:14THIS THINK THE THE HATRED RACISM
01:17:18OF SEEING WHAT IT MEANT WHAT IT
01:17:22DID AND THESE ARE AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO WERE
01:17:26ACTUALLY SUBJECT SUBJECTED TO
01:17:29THAT RACISM THAT YOU COULDN'T
01:17:31GIVE IN YOU GIVE IN YOUR
01:17:36COMRADE, YOUR FRIENDS WHO WERE FIGHTING VALIANTLY TO TO TO TO
01:17:40END THIS RACISM, TO END THIS OPPRESSION.
01:17:44SO COULDN'T TURN THEM IN.
01:17:48SO I THINK IN TERMS OF MY PARENTS, IT WAS JUST A COMBINATION OF ALL OF THAT.
01:17:52THEY STRONGLY THAT RACISM COULD
01:17:57BE OVERTURNED, THAT THAT OPPRESSION COULD BE ENDED THEY
01:18:01BELIEVED THAT IT TOOK A
01:18:03COMMUNITY IT TOOK US ALL A
01:18:07COALITION PARTY.
01:18:07I THINK THEY BELIEVED STRONGLY
01:18:11UNTIL MY MOTHER KIND OF DRIFTED AWAY.
01:18:14BUT MY FATHER STAYED TILL THE
01:18:15VERY END OF HIS LIFE AS A MEMBER
01:18:18OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY.
01:18:20THEY BELIEVED IN THE VALUES AND
01:18:23PRINCIPLES AND THE DREAMS, THE
01:18:27VISIONS. AND THEY THEY BELIEVED
01:18:32FERVENTLY, BUT THEY WEREN'T
01:18:32ABOUT TO TURN IN THEIR FRIENDS. YEAH.
01:18:36CAN I ASK MOLLY? YOU'RE DOING A BIOGRAPHY OF YOUR GRANDPA.
01:18:40SO WHAT? WHAT DO YOU THINK WAS THE BASIS
01:18:42OF HIS IN CREDIT IRON IRONCLAD
01:18:47RESISTANCE.
01:18:48SO I THINK HE GREW UP VERY POOR,
01:18:52PRETTY CLOSE TO HERE. HIS MOTHER DIED WHEN HE WAS
01:18:55YOUNG AND HE HAD TWO BROTHERS
01:18:57AND HE FELT THAT HE HAD TAKE CARE OF THEM.
01:19:00AND HE BELIEVED THAT THE LIBRARY
01:19:03THAT THE AMAZING SERVICE NEW
01:19:05YORK HAD AT THAT TIME. AND I ACTUALLY THINK WHEN YOU
01:19:09LOOK AT THE MEN OF THAT MEN AND
01:19:12WOMEN OF THAT WHO WERE BORN DURING THAT PERIOD THOUGH
01:19:15ESPECIALLY MEN ACTUALLY THEY
01:19:16ENDED UP HAVING A LOT OF SUCCESS
01:19:20YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THEM WERE THE CHILDREN OF IMMIGRANTS WHO CAME
01:19:23TO THIS COUNTRY AND WENT INTO
01:19:25THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, CUNY SYSTEM,
01:19:27THE LIBRARY IS. AND THEY HAD THESE VERY POOR
01:19:31PARENTS. SO MY GRANDFATHER JUST HAD A
01:19:33FATHER AND HE WAS TO SORT OF,
01:19:35YOU KNOW, MAKE AND THEY A LOT OF
01:19:40THESE MEN WENT ON TO RULE WORLD. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THEM
01:19:44ARE BIG DONORS TODAY, BELIEVE IT OR NOT. I MEAN, YOU KNOW EXACTLY.
01:19:49BUT JUST SAYING THERE WAS A LOT OF SOCIAL MOBILITY AT THAT
01:19:53MOMENT. AND NEW YORK HAD JUST A LOT OF
01:19:56OF OF EDUCATION IN THAT WAS FREE
01:19:59OR VERY AND, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS
01:20:02JUST A LOT OF LEARNING THAT COULD BE DONE CHEAPLY AND THERE
01:20:05WAS A LOT OF SOCIAL. SO I THINK THAT WAS OF IT.
01:20:09AND I ALSO THINK HE DID
01:20:12GENUINELY WAS WEIRDLY VERY BRAVE PERSON.
01:20:16SO GOT OUT THERE AND HE JUST COULD NOT, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH
01:20:20IN HIS OWN LIFE HE HAD VERY COMPLICATED WITH MY GRANDMOTHER
01:20:23AND WAS NOT A VERY GOOD HUSBAND. HE WAS A VERY GOOD FIGHT.
01:20:27YOU KNOW, HE FELT AND HE KNEW
01:20:30IT'S THIS THING WHERE HE KNEW HE WAS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THINGS.
01:20:34YOU KNOW, HE TRULY BELIEVES THAT
01:20:35RACE ISM WAS EVIL AND THAT IF HE
01:20:38COULD, YOU KNOW, PART OF FBI FILE, PART OF THE THE WERE YOU
01:20:42KNOW, THEY YOU HE HAD THERE WAS
01:20:46IN THERE'S MORE ABOUT IT BUT THERE'S THIS YOU KNOW HE HAD
01:20:48PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT IN HIS HOUSE
01:20:52WHICH YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO DO YOU KNOW ALL THINGS THAT HE WAS
01:20:55JUST HE JUST KNEW THEY WERE WRONG HE HAD MORAL CONVICTION.
01:20:59AND SO IT'S INTERESTING TO BECAUSE I ALWAYS THINK OF MYSELF
01:21:02AS NOT A BRAVE AT ALL, BUT I
01:21:05FEEL LIKE WHEN THINGS ARE SO
01:21:07WRONG, WHEN THEY'RE SO PROFOUND
01:21:10ROUNDLY WRONG, YOU HAVE TO SPEAK OUT.
01:21:14YOU JUST TRIGGERED SOMETHING IN MY BRAIN.
01:21:16I AM GOING TO REFER TO MY SECOND
01:21:19FATHER, ABEL MEEROPOL, WHO DID EXACTLY WHAT HOWARD DID.
01:21:23HE GREW UP IN THE NEW PUBLIC SCHOOLS. HE BECAME A WRITER.
01:21:29HE BECAME A VERY SUCCESSFUL WRITER. HE WROTE THE ANTI-LYNCHING
01:21:35ANTHEM STRANGE FRUIT. HE WROTE THE PATRIOTIC SONG THE
01:21:38HOUSE I LIVE IN, WHICH FRANK
01:21:39SINATRA SANG THE STATUE LIBERTY
01:21:43WHEN THEY CELEBRATED THE HUNDREDTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE STATUE OF LIBERTY AND WHEN HE
01:21:47WROTE STRANGE FRUIT THE
01:21:52ANTI-RED. NEW YORK STATE COMMISSION CALLED BEFORE THEM AND SAID, DID THE
01:21:56COMMUNIST PARTY TELL YOU TO WRITE STRANGE FRUIT?
01:21:59SO HE WAS FROM THE VERY
01:22:01BEGINNING, RESISTING THE KIND OF
01:22:03OPPRESSION HE SAW AROUND HIM. HE GREW UP POOR.
01:22:06HE MARRIED A POOR JEWISH WOMAN,
01:22:10ENDED UP GOING TO HOLLYWOOD, WRITING IN HOLLYWOOD, COMING
01:22:12BACK AND ADOPTING ROBBY AND ME. I MEAN, HE A QUINTESSENTIAL
01:22:16PRODUCT OF THE YORK PUBLIC SCHOOLS CITY COLLEGE, A
01:22:21SUCCESSFUL AND HE USED IT GOOD
01:22:25AND HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT? I MEAN, IT'S ELEMENT OF
01:22:28CHARACTER AND ELEMENT OF LOOKING AT THE WORLD AND BEING
01:22:31STIMULATED BY THE WORLD. HE WAS IN THE TEACHERS UNION,
01:22:34WHICH WAS A LEFT WING UNION. SO HE JOINED THE COMMUNIST PARTY
01:22:38AS PART OF HIS WORK WITH THE UNION.
01:22:40I MEAN, IT'S IT'S JUST I KIND
01:22:44AGREE THAT IT'S IT'S UNCERTAIN
01:22:46WHY THAT ELEMENT CHARACTER COMES IN.
01:22:48BUT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE THANK
01:22:50GOD HE DID SO THE DESCRIPTIONS
01:22:55THAT GIVEN RAISE ANOTHER
01:22:57QUESTION WHICH IS HOW THEY
01:23:00THOUGHT ABOUT THEMSELVES IN
01:23:03RELATION TO THE COUNTRY IN WHICH
01:23:05LIVED AND IN LOOKING THE STORIES
01:23:07OF AMERICAN COMMUNISTS AND LOOKING AT THE ACCUSATIONS OF THE RED SCARE.
01:23:11YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY INTERESTING
01:23:13TO SEE THE WAYS IN WHICH A LOT
01:23:15OF COMMUNISTS WENT OUT OF THEIR
01:23:18WAY TO SAY ACTUALLY, WE ARE GOOD
01:23:20AMERICANS AND HERE'S HOW WE UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE
01:23:24AMERICANS IN A MOMENT WHEN WE
01:23:28ARE UNDER SUCH PRESSURE.
01:23:30SO I WONDER IF YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT.
01:23:33I MEAN, THE THE HOUSE WE LIVE
01:23:36IN, GREAT, PATRIOTIC ANTHEM. IT'S A VERY STRANGE FRANK
01:23:40SINATRA FILM FROM 1945, IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT.
01:23:44I, I DO RECOMMEND IT.
01:23:46BUT HOW THEY DID THEY THINK
01:23:49ABOUT THEMSELVES AS AMERICAN? DID THEY THINK ABOUT THEMSELVES
01:23:53AS, YOU KNOW SOVIET CITIZENS IN
01:23:57EXILE? HOW DID THEY THINK ABOUT THIS
01:24:00COUNTRY AS A COUNTRY THEY LOVED
01:24:04THIS COUNTRY AND I WISH I HAD OR
01:24:06I WISH WE HAD HERE PAUL ROBESON'S ANSWER.
01:24:10HE WAS ASKED, YOU KNOW AT THE AT
01:24:14THE Q OR WHATEVER THE COMMITTEE. IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN, HUGH, WHEN
01:24:18WAS CALLED TO TESTIFY.
01:24:21YOU KNOW, DIDN'T HE GO BACK TO
01:24:24THE SOVIET UNION? HE SEEMED TO LOVE SO AND HIS
01:24:28ANSWER, I BUILT THIS COUNTRY.
01:24:30MY MY ANCESTORS BUILT THIS COUNTRY. I'M NOT GIVING IT.
01:24:34THIS IS MINE. AND HE SAW HIMSELF A GREAT
01:24:38AMERICAN. SO DID SO. SO DID MY PARENTS.
01:24:43THEY YES, THEY SAW WHAT THEY
01:24:46THOUGHT WAS.
01:24:48THE FUTURE AS, FLAWED AS IT WAS
01:24:51PRACTICED OR PUT INTO THE LIFE BROUGHT TO LIFE THE SOVIET
01:24:55UNION.
01:24:55AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, CATHOLICISM
01:25:00HAS HAD 2500 YEARS AND IT STILL CAN'T GET IT RIGHT.
01:25:03YOU KNOW, CAPITALISM HAS ONLY
01:25:06BEEN AROUND, WHAT, 250 YEARS AND
01:25:09SOVIET UNION WAS AROUND, WHAT, 70 YEARS?
01:25:12SO YOU DON'T THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER.
01:25:15MARIE CURIE TOOK HER A THOUSAND
01:25:18EXPERIMENTS TO GET RIGHT TO FIND THE RADIUM.
01:25:22YOU KNOW, THAT THAT IS THE BASIS
01:25:24FOR A LOT OF THE MEDICAL NOW.
01:25:27SO WHY ARE WE THROWING THAT OUT
01:25:30JUST ONE, ONE, ONE TIME ROUND
01:25:34AND A LOT OF THE PRINCIPLES, A
01:25:37LOT OF THE VALUES AND IN FACT A
01:25:40LOT OF THEM ARE IN SYNC WITH THE
01:25:44VALUES OF INSTITUTION THAT WE'RE
01:25:46SITTING IN RIGHT NOW NOW.
01:25:50SO THEY WEREN'T ABOUT TO GIVE
01:25:52THIS UP THIS AMERICA IS OURS.
01:25:54AND WE SHOULD NOT GIVE IT UP WE MUST NOT GIVE IT UP AND GIVE IT
01:25:58OVER TO THE TRUMP ITES.
01:26:04I CAN'T ADD ANYTHING THAT GREAT
01:26:08WELL, WE WANT TO FINISH WITH ONE LAST QUESTION HERE, WHICH IS ARE
01:26:12THE LESSONS OF MCCARTHY ISM.
01:26:14SO THAT IS HOW IS BILLED
01:26:16CONFRONTING MCCARTHY
01:26:19GENERATIONAL LESSONS FROM FAMILIES WHO RESISTED THE RED SCARE.
01:26:23SO LESSONS WHAT WHAT WHAT WOULD
01:26:27YOU YOU WANT US TO GO IN REVERSE
01:26:29ORDER YOU CAN GO IN WHATEVER
01:26:31YOU'RE FEELING INSPIRED. YEAH.
01:26:35I'LL I'LL GO FIRST.
01:26:37SO THE LESSON THAT I LEARNED
01:26:40FROM MY GRANDFATHER ACTUALLY,
01:26:42WAS THAT YOU HAVE TO BE BRAVE IF
01:26:48YOU IF, IF SOMETHING, LIKE, THIS HAPPENS.
01:26:51AND THAT'S WHAT I'VE SEEN MYSELF AT THIS MOMENT IS, THAT YOU IT
01:26:54IS YOUR RESPONSE ABILITY TO BE BRAVE.
01:26:58I KNOW A BUNCH OF PEOPLE WHO
01:27:01HAVE MOVED TO CANADA, YOU KNOW,
01:27:03THESE PEOPLE TO AND I KNOW SOME
01:27:07PEOPLE HAVE MOVED TO EUROPE AND
01:27:09I AM PAUL AND I AM JUST APPALLED
01:27:13BY THEM. THIS IS NOT THE MOMENT. BE A COWARD.
01:27:16THIS IS THE MOMENT. STAY AND BE BRAVE.
01:27:20AND OUR COUNTRY CALLS ON US TO
01:27:22DEFEND THESE VALUES.
01:27:24AND IT IS JUST NOT EVEN IT DID
01:27:26NOT EVEN OCCUR TO ME TO DO THAT.
01:27:29I MEAN, IT DID. I JUST IT IS APPALLING TO ME
01:27:33THAT WE WOULD HAVE HAD SO MUCH
01:27:36FROM THIS COUNTRY AND THEN ABANDONED IT AT THE MOMENT WHEN
01:27:39IT WAS IN REAL PERIL.
01:27:42SO YOU KNOW, MY I ALWAYS THOUGHT OF MY GRANDFATHER AS REALLY
01:27:46COULD BE A BLOWHARD, MEAN THAT
01:27:48IN THE NICEST POSSIBLE WAY BUT YOU KNOW SOMETIMES HE WOULD TELL
01:27:52THESE STORIES AND MY DAD I WOULD WALK OUT OF THE ROOM BECAUSE WE
01:27:55KNEW WHERE THEY GOING AND TRY TO LEAVE OTHER THERE SO THEY'D HAVE
01:27:59TO HEAR THEM AND I NOW YOU I
01:28:04JUST I HAVE SO MUCH RESPECT FOR
01:28:07HIM AND I, I HOPE THAT I LIKE AN
01:28:11OUNCE OF THAT LEVEL OF
01:28:17FORTITUDE.
01:28:24LESSONS FROM MCCARTHY PERIOD.
01:28:32I THINK WE HAVE TO.
01:28:36COME TOGETHER I THINK WE HAVE TO
01:28:44TO.
01:28:46UNDERSTAND AND THAT THIS IS A
01:28:49MOMENT WHEN IT REQUIRES ALL
01:28:53HANDS ON DECK THAT WE HAVE TO PUT DOWN OUR PETTY IDEOLOGICAL
01:28:58OR POLITICAL DIFFERENCES AND
01:29:03THAT THIS IS AN EXERCISE AND A
01:29:05MOMENT AND AND AND WE HAVE TO
01:29:10STAND UP AND SAY WE HAVE TO MAKE
01:29:12THIS UNGOVERNABLE.
01:29:14WELL, WE CAN'T LET.
01:29:18CONTINUE WITH THIS.
01:29:21AND I AGREE WITH YOU THAT
01:29:25LEAVING IT'S RESPONSIBILITY.
01:29:28WE'RE AMERICAN IS WE ARE NOT THE
01:29:33ENEMIES OF US SITTING IN THIS ROOM. AND SO MANY OUTSIDE THE MAJORITY
01:29:36OF THE OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE NOT THE ENEMIES THAT
01:29:40THE PEOPLES THE WORLD. WE'RE NOT THE ENEMIES OF THE
01:29:44PLANET THAT WE LIVE ON.
01:29:46WE'RE NOT RAPING AND GO GRABBING
01:29:51AND EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN
01:29:54OURSELVES AS INDIVIDUALS.
01:29:55YOU KNOW, WE'RE WE'RE NOT WE'RE NOT THAT.
01:29:59AND WE HAVE TO TELL THE WORLD
01:30:01THAT WE'RE NOT THAT WE HAVE TO VOTE.
01:30:04WE HAVE TO GET EVERYBODY OUT TO VOTE IS NOT THE ONLY ANSWER.
01:30:07BUT WE HAVE TO DO THAT AND, THEN WE IF WE HAVE TO MAKE THIS
01:30:12UNGOVERNABLE, WE HAVE TO DO THAT.
01:30:14AND I THINK THE LESSONS THE
01:30:16MCCARTHY PERIOD ARE, THAT NO ONE
01:30:19ELSE IS COMING HERE, SAVE US. THERE ARE NO ANGELS COMING DOWN
01:30:22FROM ANYWHERE. THERE'S NO RED ARMY COMING. I MEAN, IT'S US.
01:30:26IT'S US THAT'S GOING TO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE.
01:30:32SO AND, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T TO BE DIVIDED.
01:30:35I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER LESSON
01:30:37FROM THAT PERIOD WE HAVE TO WE
01:30:41HAVE TO PUT THOSE DIFFERENCES
01:30:45ASIDE AND SAY, NO WE'RE GOING TO
01:30:49SAVE THIS COUNTRY. WE ARE GOING TO SAVE OURSELVES. AND IN SO DOING, WE WILL
01:30:52ACTUALLY SAVE THE WORLD.
01:30:58WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, I
01:31:01STUDIED FRENCH AND THE MOST
01:31:05INCREDIBLE MESSAGE I GOT IT AND IT'S STAYED WITH ME.
01:31:08NOW YOU KNOW, 70 YEARS LATER IS
01:31:12THAT EVEN WHEN YOU I'M GOING TO
01:31:14CRY, EVEN WHEN KNOW YOU'RE GOING
01:31:16TO LOSE YOU GOT TO FIGHT BECAUSE
01:31:20THE END YOU ACTUALLY MIGHT WIN.
01:31:22RESISTANCE IS AND I HOPE HAVE
01:31:27THE COURAGE AND THE ENERGY TO DO
01:31:29THAT WITH EVERY BREATH HAVE
01:31:34LEFT.
01:31:37WELL THAT SEEMS AN EXCELLENT
01:31:40NOTE TO END ON PLEASE JOIN ME
01:31:44THANKING THE PANELISTS THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR BEING HERE.
01:31:48THERE IS A RECEPTION.
01:31:50THE CONVERSATION CAN CONTINUE
01:31:56SO. THIS AND THANK YOU TO ALL OF OUR
01:32:00PANELISTS FOR SHARING THESE
01:32:00INCREDIBLE FAMILY AND STORIES OF
01:32:04COURAGE.
01:32:06I WANT TO THANK TY JONES, THE
01:32:09LEHMAN CURATOR FOR AMERICAN
01:32:12HISTORY, WHO HAD THIS IDEA AND
01:32:16AND WORKED SO HARD TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.
01:32:20THANK SO MUCH. TIME AND THANKS TO ALL OF THE
01:32:24CATHEDRAL'S STAFF AND THE COLUMBIA STAFF WORKED HARD TO
01:32:27PUT TOGETHER THIS PROGRAM IF IF
01:32:31DIALOG HAS INSPIRED, I'M SURE IT
01:32:35HAS THEN I'D LOVE FOR YOU TO
01:32:38CONTINUE TO EXPLORE THESE THEMES
01:32:40WITH COLLEAGUE, STUDENTS AND FRIENDS.
01:32:44AND TO THAT END, I WOULD LIKE TO
01:32:46INVITE YOU TO ANOTHER UPCOMING
01:32:48EVENT PRESENTED BY COLUMBIA'S LIBRARIES AND THE DEPARTMENT OF
01:32:52HISTORY, THE BANCROFT PRIZES IN AMERICA AND HISTORY AND DIPLOMACY.
01:32:56ON APRIL THIRD. THE PRIZES DISTINGUISHED WORKS
01:32:59OF HISTORICAL THAT DEEPEN OUR UNDERSTANDING HISTORY AND ITS
01:33:04RELEVANCE FOR THE PRESENT MOMENT
01:33:06THE AUTHORS ARE INTERVIEWED FELLOW HISTORIANS, AND THIS
01:33:11SHEDS ON THE LESSONS TO BE LEARNED FROM SCHOLARLY STUDY OF THE PAST.
01:33:14THERE IS A REGISTRATION AND LINK
01:33:16AT THE ON THE AT THE QR CODE
01:33:20THAT'S ON THE BOTTOM OF YOUR
01:33:21PROGRAM AND I AGAIN THANK YOU
01:33:24FOR THIS WONDERFUL PROGRAM THESE
01:33:28TERRIFIC INSIGHTS AND A VERY
01:33:30MEANINGFUL EVENING THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
01:33:34THANK YOU SOWOW.
01:33:49WELCOME TO FREE AND INDEPENDENT.
01:33:50A CELEBRA OF THE DECLARATION.
01:33:53WE HAVE OVER A MILLION VISITORS A YEAR WHO COME TO THE ROTUNDA
01:33:57OF THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES TO SEE THE ORIGINAL DECLARATION OF IT
01:34:00IS A NATIONAL TREASURE THAT
01:34:03PEOPLE COME EVERY YEAR ON THEIR
01:34:06PATRIOTIC TO SEE THAT INCREDIBLE
01:34:09THAT FOUNDED OUR COUNTRY AND SET
01:34:11AND WAS AT THE ROOTS OF OUR ONGOING DIALOG OF WHAT MEANS TO
01:34:15BE FREE AS A NATION ON THAT
01:34:19DOCUMENT, THE WORDS ARE QUITE FADED AND. THAT'S A TESTAMENT TO ITS
01:34:22JOURNEYS AND ITS HARDSHIPS DURING THE WAR AND ALSO DURING THE WAR OF 1812.
01:34:26BUT ON THE DOCUMENT YOU CAN STILL SEE FREE AND INDEPENDENT
01:34:29WRITTEN ON THE DOCUMENT VERY
01:34:32CLEARLY, AND THAT IS WE NAMED
01:34:34THIS EXHIBIT FREE INDEPENDENT, A
01:34:36CELEBRATION OF THE DECLARATION
01:34:38AND THE EXHIBIT STARTS WITH THE
01:34:41END OF THE FRENCH INDIAN WAR
01:34:45AND. A PROCLAMATION FROM THE KING THAT ESTABLISHES THE BOUNDARIES
01:34:47FOR THE COLONIES AND HOW THEY
01:34:51END AND HOW THEY THE CALLS FOR
01:34:53NOT TO GO BEYOND THOSE
01:34:55BOUNDARIES INTO INDIAN TERRITORY
01:34:58AND THEN AS WE KNOW AT THE END OF THE FRENCH AND WAR THAT WERE
01:35:03TAXES WERE SET AND THE INTOLERABLE AND THAT WAS THE
01:35:07START OF THE LEAD UP TO THE SIGNING THE DECLARATION.
01:35:10SO THE EXHIBIT TAKES YOU THE STORY. IT GOES THROUGH THE FIRST
01:35:13CONTINENTAL CONGRESS AND THE RESPONSES TO THE ACTS.
01:35:17IT GOES TO THE SECOND CONTINENTAL CONGRESS AND, THE
01:35:20FORMATION OF THE REVOLUTIONARY
01:35:23ARMY, AND THEN CULMINATING TO
01:35:25THE SIGNING OF THEHELLO, EVERYOO
01:35:57LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY, THE HOME OF THE