Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00CHALLENGES IN RURAL COMMUNITIES. WATCH CEASEFIRE TODAY AT 7 P.M.
00:00:03AND 10 P.M. EASTERN AND PACIFIC
00:00:08ONLY ON C-SPAN. >> [MUSIC]
00:00:11>> NONFICTION BOOK LOVERS C-SPAN HAS A NUMBER OF PODCASTS FOR
00:00:15YOU. LISTEN TO BESTSELLING NONFICTION AUTHORS AND
00:00:18INFLUENTIAL INTERVIEWERS ON THE AFTER WORDS PODCAST AND ON Q&A
00:00:21HERE. WIDE RANGING CONVERSATIONS WITH NONFICTION AUTHORS AND
00:00:25OTHERS WHO ARE MAKING THINGS HAPPEN. AND BOOKNOTES. PLUS,
00:00:28EPISODES ARE WEEKLY, HOUR LONG CONVERSATIONS THAT REGULARLY
00:00:32FEATURE FASCINATING AUTHORS OF NONFICTION BOOKS ON A WIDE
00:00:35VARIETY OF TOPICS. FIND ALL OF
00:00:37OUR PODCASTS BY DOWNLOADING THE FREE C-SPAN NOW APP OR WHEREVER
00:00:41YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS, AND ON
00:00:41OUR WEBSITE, C-SPAN.ORG.
00:00:50>> AND NOW, A DISCUSSION ON THE USE OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE
00:00:53IN WAR ZONES, FEATURING REMARKS FROM FORMER TOP MILITARY OFFICIALS WHO ALSO ADDRESSED THE
00:00:57USE OF DRONES, AND WHETHER AI
00:01:00COULD AFFECT CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS AMONG SERVICE MEMBERS
00:01:03FROM THE ATLANTIC COUNCIL. IT'S
00:01:04AN HOUR, 15 MINUTES.
00:01:09>> GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS
00:01:11TRESSA, AND I'M ACTING SENIOR DIRECTOR AND SENIOR FELLOW OF
00:01:14THE ATLANTIC COUNCIL'S SCOWCROFT CENTER FOR STRATEGY AND
00:01:17SECURITY. CONVENING SUCH AS THESE ARE INTEGRAL TO THE
00:01:21SCOWCROFT CENTER'S MISSION OF
00:01:23DEVELOPING SUSTAINABLE, NONPARTISAN STRATEGIES TO ADDRESS THE MOST IMPORTANT
00:01:27SECURITY CHALLENGES FACING THE
00:01:28UNITED STATES AND ITS ALLIES.
00:01:32WITHIN THE SCOWCROFT CENTER, THE FOUR DEFENSE PROGRAM DEVELOPS AND SHAPES POLICY SOLUTIONS THAT
00:01:35BUILD U.S. MILITARY POWER TO
00:01:39DETER WAR AND SECURE THE FUTURE. I'M PLEASED TODAY TO LAUNCH THE
00:01:43FORWARD DEFENSE PROGRAMS NEW REPORT TITLED AI AND AUTONOMY IN
00:01:46CONTESTED OPERATIONS. WE THANK
00:01:48OUR SPONSORS, MANY OF WHOM ARE
00:01:52HERE TODAY, FOR SUPPORTING THIS CRITICAL TOPIC. OVER THE NEXT
00:01:54HOUR, THIS PANEL WILL DISCUSS
00:01:56WHAT IT TAKES TO MOVE AI FROM
00:02:00THE LAB TO OPERATIONS. WE KNOW MANY SYSTEMS THAT USE AI DEPEND
00:02:03ON CONNECTIVITY TO CLOUD
00:02:06INFRASTRUCTURE OR LARGE LANGUAGE
00:02:08MODELS. AND THESE CONNECTIONS
00:02:10CAN FALTER OR DISAPPEAR ENTIRELY
00:02:13IN THE FIELD, AS WE'RE SEEING IN UKRAINE. OPERATIONAL ADVANTAGE
00:02:16WILL INCREASINGLY DEPEND ON SYSTEMS THAT MUST KEEP WORKING
00:02:20WHEN CONNECTIVITY IS LOST OR DISRUPTED. THIS IS A CHALLENGE
00:02:24AT THE HEART OF THIS BRIEF.
00:02:26MILITARY LEADERS SHOULD EXPECT
00:02:29TO OPERATE IN DENIED, DEGRADED, INTERMITTENT AND LIMITED
00:02:32ENVIRONMENTS, AND SHOULD NOT TREAT THOSE CONDITIONS AS AN
00:02:36OUTLIER. BETTER TECHNOLOGY ALONE
00:02:37WILL NOT SOLVE THIS PROBLEM. WE
00:02:40MUST ALSO REFORM TRAINING AUTHORITIES AND CONCEPTS TO
00:02:42ENSURE SOLDIERS AND COMMANDERS
00:02:45WILL HAVE TRUST THAT THESE SYSTEMS WILL EFFECTIVELY AND
00:02:49SAFELY WORK WHEN IT COUNTS. THIS
00:02:51BRIEF TAKES UP THOSE QUESTIONS DIRECTLY AND OFFERS CONCRETE
00:02:55RECOMMENDATIONS. AS THE PENTAGON
00:02:57MOVES TOWARDS BROADER ADOPTION. OUR PANEL IS EXACTLY THE GROUP
00:03:00TO DISCUSS THEM. MODERATING
00:03:03TODAY'S CONVERSATION WILL BE FORWARD DEFENSE DIRECTOR JOE
00:03:06COSTA. JOE, OVER TO YOU. >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU ALL FOR
00:03:10COMING TODAY. AS TRESSA MENTIONED, I MANAGE THE FORWARD
00:03:13DEFENSE PROGRAM HERE UNDER THE
00:03:15SCOWCROFT CENTER. WE HAVE A VERY
00:03:19DISTINGUISHED PANEL TO ADDRESS SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS. I'M GOING TO FIRST START WITH AN
00:03:23INTRODUCTION. I'LL ASK A FEW QUESTIONS. GOING TILL ABOUT 445.
00:03:25AND THEN WE'LL OPEN UP FOR 15 MINUTES FOR Q&A FROM THE
00:03:28AUDIENCE. SITTING TO MY FAR
00:03:31LEFT, GENERAL JAMES CARTWRIGHT
00:03:33SERVED AS THE EIGHTH VICE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF
00:03:37STAFF, THE SECOND HIGHEST RANKING MILITARY OFFICIAL WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, WAS
00:03:41THE COMMANDER OF U.S. STRATEGIC COMMAND AND SERVED OUR COUNTRY
00:03:44IN UNIFORM AS A MARINE FOR
00:03:46NEARLY 40 YEARS. AND, OF COURSE,
00:03:48HIS MOST IMPORTANT ROLE AS ATLANTIC COUNCIL BOARD MEMBER.
00:03:51THANK YOU, SIR, FOR BEING HERE.
00:03:53LIEUTENANT GENERAL DAVID HARRIS
00:03:56SERVED FOR OVER 30 YEARS IN THE
00:03:59UNITED STATES AIR FORCE UNTIL HIS RETIREMENT ONLY FOUR MONTHS AGO. SO HE'S GETTING USED TO
00:04:03WEARING A NEW TYPE OF UNIFORM
00:04:05HERE. HE LAST SERVED AS DEPUTY
00:04:07CHIEF OF STAFF OF AIR FORCE FUTURES, WHICH IS THE SENIOR AIR
00:04:11FORCE LEADER RESPONSIBLE FOR
00:04:13STRATEGY, INTEGRATION AND
00:04:16REQUIREMENTS. ALSO HAS I SAW 2500 FLIGHT HOURS AND SERVED
00:04:19MULTIPLE MULTIPLE MISSIONS. SO THANK YOU, SIR, AS WELL FOR YOUR
00:04:22SERVICE IN BEING HERE. AND OWEN
00:04:24DANIELS TO MY LEFT, NONRESIDENT SENIOR FELLOW HERE AS PART OF
00:04:27THE FORWARD DEFENSE PROGRAM.
00:04:29HE'S ALSO AN ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR OF ANALYSIS. AND ANDREW
00:04:33MARSHALL, FELLOW AT GEORGETOWN CENTER FOR SECURITY AND EMERGING
00:04:36TECHNOLOGY, WHERE HE WORKS ON
00:04:39ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND GOVERNANCE ISSUE. AND I WOULD BE REMISS IF I DID NOT SAY HAS A
00:04:43GREAT FORTHCOMING BOOK COMING
00:04:45OUT CALLED AI AND THE FUTURE OF WAR. SO IF THESE TOPICS INTEREST
00:04:49YOU, PLEASE GO OUT AND BUY THE
00:04:50BOOK WITH WITH THAT, I'M GOING
00:04:54TO KICK OFF WITH A FEW QUESTIONS. I'LL JUST NOTE THAT
00:04:58ASK A SEA ORG IS THE WEBSITE TO ASK YOUR QUESTIONS WHEN WE GET
00:05:01THERE AT 445. AND OF COURSE,
00:05:03WE'LL TAKE SOME QUESTIONS FROM
00:05:05THE AUDIENCE AS WELL. THE BRIEF
00:05:08ARGUES THAT WE WILL PUT OUT ON
00:05:09THE WEBSITE TODAY THAT THE U.S.
00:05:14MILITARY SHOULD PRESUME MOST OPERATIONS WILL OCCUR IN
00:05:16CONTESTED, LOW CONNECTIVITY
00:05:19ENVIRONMENTS, OR WHAT WE CALL DIGITAL ENVIRONMENTS, DENIED, DEGRADED AND INTERMITTENT AND
00:05:22LIMITED, WHICH OF COURSE, CAN HAPPEN FROM ADVERSARY INTENT, OR
00:05:25SOMETIMES THROUGH CONGESTION OF
00:05:27OUR OWN SYSTEMS. GENERAL, LET ME
00:05:30START WITH YOU. CAN YOU PLEASE
00:05:34DESCRIBE WHAT WE MEAN BY DIGITAL ENVIRONMENTS? FOR SOME OF OUR
00:05:36LISTENERS RIGHT NOW, AND SPECIFICALLY HOW IT IMPACTS HOW
00:05:40WE THINK OF BUILDING AND
00:05:42DEPLOYING AI IN THE FIELD? >> UM, SURE.
00:05:46>> YOU COULD WRITE A NOVEL ON
00:05:47THIS. UM, BUT I THINK THE FIRST
00:05:53THING TO UNDERSTAND HERE IS THAT
00:05:55THE IDEA OF DENIED AND DELAYED
00:05:58AND ALL OF THOSE ATTRIBUTES, UM,
00:06:01IS NOT NEW. IT'S BEEN AROUND
00:06:05EVER SINCE WARFARE HAS BEEN AROUND. OKAY. UM, AND IT'S BEEN
00:06:09ON BOTH THE OFFENSIVE AND THE DEFENSIVE SIDE, SO TO SPEAK, DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU SIT. UM,
00:06:13SO THAT'S NOT NEW. WHAT IS
00:06:17FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT HERE IN THE TECHNOLOGY THAT THAT'S
00:06:21EMERGING THROUGH AI? UM, IS HOW
00:06:24WE BOTH PLAN AND OPERATE THROUGH
00:06:27THAT KIND OF AN ENVIRONMENT.
00:06:30NUMBER ONE, NUMBER TWO, IN PLANNING, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE
00:06:34CASE THAT YOU ASSUME THAT IT
00:06:36WILL BE THERE NO MATTER, YOU KNOW, WHAT GENERATION YOU CAME
00:06:40FROM, WHAT WAR YOU MIGHT HAVE
00:06:41HAD EXPERIENCE IN. UM, IT'S
00:06:46PLANNED FOR, BUT PROBABLY THE FREQUENCY AND THE DEPTH OF IT
00:06:49HAS NEVER BEEN AS HIGH AS, AS IT
00:06:53IS FOR TODAY'S WARS. OKAY. UM,
00:06:54SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
00:06:59SOMETHING THAT, UM, HAS GENERATED SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST,
00:07:01SUBSTANTIAL LEVERAGE, UM, FOR
00:07:03BOTH SIDES OF THE FIGHT. AND
00:07:05IT'S NOT A STATIC ACTIVITY. SO
00:07:08COULD, COULD HAVE BEEN YEARS AGO. UM, YOU KNOW, I THREW A
00:07:12TENT OR A BLANKET OVER MY TANK AND, AND NOBODY COULD SEE IT FROM THE AIR. AND THEN I, YOU
00:07:16KNOW, GOT A CHANCE TO SHOOT AND
00:07:18SURVIVE FOR A WHILE LONGER OR
00:07:22WHATEVER. UM, THE SOPHISTICATION
00:07:23TODAY IS FAR GREATER. UM, AND I
00:07:26DON'T WANT TO GEEK OUT ON THIS
00:07:28TOO MUCH, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE
00:07:33LOOK AT THE BATTLE SPACE IN A
00:07:34WAY THAT, UM, ACKNOWLEDGES THE
00:07:37SOPHISTICATION AND THE SPEED AND THE PRECISION WITH WHICH WE ARE
00:07:41MOVING THROUGH IT. THE BATTLE SPACE IS FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT
00:07:45AND HAS BEEN CHANGING. TODAY, WE
00:07:48ASSUME ANY PLACE ON THE FACE OF
00:07:52THE EARTH WE'LL KNOW POSITION, NAVIGATION, AND TIMING BECAUSE
00:07:54OF GPS. OKAY. YOU CAN GO BACK EVEN TO THE BEGINNING OF THE
00:07:58FIRST GULF WAR. THAT WAS NOT THE
00:08:00CASE. UM, YOU KNOW, YOU STOOD AT THE LINE OF DEPARTURE, AND PEOPLE WERE HANDING OUT MAPS
00:08:04THAT YOU COULD SOMEHOW NAVIGATE
00:08:07THE MOGULS OF SAND. AND UNTIL ONE FROM THE OTHER, WHICH NEVER
00:08:10REALLY WORKED OUT ALL THAT WELL, YOU JUST KIND OF WENT, UM,
00:08:13BECAUSE IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT AND YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS ON YOUR LEFT. YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT
00:08:17WAS ON YOUR RIGHT. ALL OF THOSE THINGS WERE DIFFICULT AT THAT TIME. BUT NOW IT'S THERE. YOU
00:08:21DON'T HAVE TO PREPARE FOR IT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO HOPE THAT
00:08:23IT'S GOING TO BE THERE. BUT IT
00:08:26IS SPOOFABLE. DENIED. YOU KNOW,
00:08:30YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT ALL OF THOSE. AND THE SERVICES HAVE
00:08:34DONE A FANTASTIC JOB OF BOTH TRAINING PEOPLE AND CREATING THE
00:08:38EQUIPMENT THAT GIVES GRACEFUL DEGRADATION, GIVES YOU THE IDEA AND UNDERSTANDING THAT IT'S
00:08:42GOING TO HAPPEN. IT'S PROBABLY
00:08:44HAPPENING TO YOU. AND ENOUGH BACKUPS. PHENOMENOLOGIES TO LOOK
00:08:48AT, TO SAY, OKAY, THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A TRUCK, BUT IT
00:08:52DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A TRUCK. OKAY, SOMETHING'S WRONG HERE. SO
00:08:56NOW I'VE GOT TO THINK MY WAY THROUGH WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
00:08:58SO, SO YOU HAVE THAT. WHAT'S
00:09:01CHANGING RIGHT NOW? EQUALLY
00:09:04FAST, BUT HASN'T REALLY COMPLETED YET. UM, IS THE IDEA
00:09:08THAT ANY PLACE YOU GO, THE COMMS
00:09:09WILL BE THERE. OKAY. THERE
00:09:13CERTAINLY JAM ABLE. THEY'RE CERTAINLY THE ABILITY TO USE
00:09:17THEM FOR DECEPTION, ALL SORTS OF THINGS. BUT IT USED TO BE,
00:09:20CERTAINLY FOR MY TIME, I CAN
00:09:24REMEMBER WAITING 3 TO 6 MONTHS FOR A SATELLITE TO BE MOVED TO GET A FOOTPRINT WHERE WE NEEDED
00:09:27IT IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO USE IT. THAT'S JUST NOT THE CASE
00:09:31ANYMORE. YOU CAN BASICALLY COUNT ON THE FACT THAT YOU'RE GOING
00:09:35TO HAVE COMMS THAT CAN REMEMBER
00:09:37MORE THAN ONCE THE LINE OF DEPARTURES, LISTENING TO PEOPLE SAY, OKAY, WHAT'S THE THINGS
00:09:41THAT AREN'T GOING TO WORK? COMMS WAS ALWAYS FIRST, OKAY, THAT'S JUST NOT THE CASE
00:09:45ANYMORE. UM, WE'VE GOT IT, WE'VE GOT IT. WE'VE GOT WORK
00:09:48TO DO IN IT. BUT IT'S BECOMING
00:09:52UBIQUITOUS AND AVAILABLE, AND
00:09:54IT'S STARTING TO MOVE AND BE
00:09:57MORE DIGITAL IN NATURE. AND IT'S BECAUSE OF THE LOW LATENCY
00:10:01AND THE CAPABILITIES THAT YOU CAN DO FROM LOW EARTH ORBIT.
00:10:03NOW, THE ABILITY TO USE THOSE IN
00:10:08FIRES IS VERY REALISTIC BECAUSE
00:10:11OF THE LATENCY ISSUES ARE NOT THERE THAT WE USED TO HAVE USED TO BE, OKAY, CALL SOMEBODY UP,
00:10:15WAIT A FEW MINUTES. YOU SPEAK, YOU WAIT, THEN THEY SPEAK.
00:10:19THAT'S JUST NOT THE CASE ANYMORE. IT'S LIKE THEY'RE
00:10:21SITTING RIGHT NEXT TO YOU. UM,
00:10:24AND SO THAT KIND OF SPEED OF ACTION AVAILABLE IN ANY PLACE ON
00:10:28THE FACE OF THE EARTH, WITH VERY FEW BLINKING MOUNTAINS, DON'T
00:10:32BLANK IT BECAUSE THERE'S ONE ON THE OTHER SIDE. IT'S JUST
00:10:34BECOMING VERY, VERY RELIABLE.
00:10:40OKAY. BUT NOT GUARANTEED FOR SURE. AND THEN THE THIRD ACTIVITY THAT'S GOING ON IN
00:10:43THIS IS JUST NOW STARTING TO
00:10:46EMERGE, WHICH IS COMPUTE. OKAY?
00:10:48THE ABILITY TO HAVE THE COMPUTE
00:10:52NECESSARY AND THE BANDWIDTH NECESSARY TO MAKE THIS GLOBALLY
00:10:55AVAILABLE. UM, READILY THERE AND
00:11:02USABLE BY THE EDGE AT THE EDGE.
00:11:03UM, THE EMERGENCE THAT WE'RE
00:11:06SEEING PROBABLY HERE IN THE NEXT
00:11:086 OR 7 MONTHS WITH THE ABILITY
00:11:10TO USE YOUR CELL PHONE AND JUST NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
00:11:13WHETHER YOU'RE TALKING TO A SATELLITE OR WHETHER YOU'RE
00:11:15TALKING TO A CELL TOWER, UM, THAT KIND OF CALM AND ASSURED
00:11:20CALM HAS NOT BEEN THERE BEFORE. IT'S NOT BEEN THERE IN THIS
00:11:23FORM FACTOR, BUT, BUT AI
00:11:28REQUIRES THE ABILITY TO BOTH COMPUTE AT THE EDGE AND BE ABLE
00:11:31TO SURVIVE AT THE EDGE WITHOUT BEING CONNECTED, BUT THEN ALSO
00:11:35TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF BEING CONNECTED TO BASICALLY HAVE
00:11:39COMMAND AND CONTROL THAT REACHES BACK TO HEADQUARTERS, REACHES
00:11:43BACK TO INTENT, ALLOWS YOU TO UNDERSTAND RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
00:11:46THAT ARE DYNAMIC AND MOVING ALL THE TIME, AND ALLOWS YOU TO
00:11:49UNDERSTAND A MANEUVER SCHEME THAT IS IN, IN MULTIPLE
00:11:53DIMENSIONS SIMULTANEOUSLY. AND
00:11:57SO THOSE TYPES OF THINGS START TO CHANGE. THE BATTLE SPACE AND
00:12:01OUR ABILITY TO OPERATE IN DENIED ENVIRONMENTS. OKAY. IT DOES NOT
00:12:04GUARANTEE US THAT. UM, AND I
00:12:08THINK THE LAST THING TO ME, THAT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND IN THIS ENVIRONMENT, WHICH STARTS TO GO MORE TOWARDS THE
00:12:11GEEK SIDE OF THE EQUATION. BUT
00:12:13AS YOU START TO LOOK AT, UM,
00:12:18CHAOS THEORY AND SWARM THEORY,
00:12:22CHAOS BEING THAT I CAN MAKE A
00:12:25PERTURBATION IN A NETWORK OR IN
00:12:27A, IN A DOMAIN, AND THAT SMALL
00:12:30PERTURBATION QUICKLY CASCADES. THE CHALLENGE IS YOU DON'T KNOW
00:12:34WHERE IT'S GOING TO CASCADE OFTENTIMES, AND YOU DON'T KNOW
00:12:37HOW LONG IT'S GOING TO PERSIST,
00:12:39ET CETERA.. BUT THOSE KINDS OF
00:12:42ACTIVITIES WITH COMPUTE, YOU START TO UNDERSTAND BOTH WHERE
00:12:45TO PERTURBATE, BUT ALSO TO WHERE TO PUT GUARDRAILS TO, TO CORNER
00:12:49THINGS IN CYBER AND OTHER PLACES
00:12:52WHERE YOU'RE MOVING AT DECISION SPEED THAT IS FASTER THAN THE
00:12:55SPEED OF LIGHT ON A GLOBAL
00:12:57SCALE. AND SO WHEN YOU SAY,
00:13:00OKAY, HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET COMMANDERS, FOR INSTANCE, TO
00:13:04START TO TRUST THIS WHEN THEY CAN'T EVEN PERCEIVE IT? OKAY.
00:13:07AND, UM, I GO BACK TO THE
00:13:11DOTMLPF SIDE OF THIS EQUATION,
00:13:14WHICH IS, I THINK, PROBABLY THE BEST THING WE HAVE GOING FOR US IS THE STEM GENERATION. THEY
00:13:19UNDERSTAND THIS. THIS MAKES SENSE TO THEM. THEY'RE COMFORTABLE IN THESE KINDS OF
00:13:22THOUGHT PROCESSES. THEY'RE
00:13:24COMFORTABLE IN THESE KINDS OF
00:13:26IMPROVEMENTS INCREMENTALLY AND
00:13:28QUICKLY, UH, RISK FACTORS THAT ARE CONTEXTUAL TO THE
00:13:32SURROUNDINGS, RATHER THAN JUST A PEANUT BUTTER SPREAD ACROSS THE
00:13:35EARTH. THOSE TYPES OF THINGS ARE GOING TO BE REALLY ADVANTAGEOUS TO US. AND YOU CAN ALREADY SEE
00:13:39IT IN THE FORCES. YOU REALLY,
00:13:41YOU CAN ALREADY PERCEIVE THE
00:13:44DIFFERENCE IN THE, YOU KNOW,
00:13:46GUYS LIKE ME AND, AND MAYBE A
00:13:49LITTLE BIT THIS GUY OF GOING THROUGH THE STAGES OF DENIAL.
00:13:52NO, THIS WILL NEVER WORK. THIS AI STUFF IS CRAZY. WELL, OKAY,
00:13:56AS LONG AS I DON'T HAVE TO DO IT, YOU KNOW, AND YOU JUST KEEP
00:14:00WORKING YOUR WAY THROUGH UNTIL IT'S FINALLY OKAY, YOU GOT A
00:14:04CHOICE. YOU KNOW, YOU EITHER USE
00:14:04IT, OR YOU PERISH. UM, BUT MUCH
00:14:09OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN, IN THE
00:14:11DDIL SIDE OF THIS EQUATION IS
00:14:15HAPPENING BELOW. THE ABILITY OF
00:14:17A HUMAN TO PERCEIVE IT. AND THAT'S REALLY CRITICAL TO
00:14:21UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS SO IMPORTANT, WHY OWEN'S WORK IS SO
00:14:24IMPORTANT IN THIS AREA. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR. AND
00:14:26I THINK A LOT OF THIS, THE SPEED
00:14:31WITH WHICH IT'S MOVING, HOW AI
00:14:32IS MANIFESTING ITSELF, HOW
00:14:36COUNTRIES ARE RESPONDING, UM, USING EDGE COMPUTE AND VARIOUS
00:14:39WAYS WE'RE SEEING IT PLAY OUT IN IRAN AND UKRAINE. SO, GENERAL
00:14:42HARRIS, LET ME ASK YOU, AS WE THINK OF OUR ADVERSARIES
00:14:46CAPABILITIES IN THIS WORLD AND
00:14:48THE CHALLENGE OF DEPLOYING AI AND DIGITAL ENVIRONMENTS, WHAT
00:14:51LESSONS CAN WE DRAW FROM OPERATION EPIC FURY AND WHAT
00:14:55WE'RE SEEING HAPPENING IN UKRAINE? >> YEAH. JOE. THANKS. UH, SO FIRST, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME
00:14:59HERE TODAY. I THINK THE DIGITAL ENVIRONMENT, THE WAY IT WAS JUST
00:15:01CAPTURED BY GENERAL CARTWRIGHT,
00:15:03WAS SPOT ON. EVERY JUNIOR ENLISTED AND JUNIOR OFFICER,
00:15:07SENIOR OFFICER THAT'S OUT THERE. THIS ISN'T A NEW PHENOMENOLOGY.
00:15:11IT'S SOMETHING WE'VE ALL DEALT WITH. WE JUST HAPPEN TO CALL IT
00:15:13THE FOG AND FRICTION OF WAR BEFORE IT'S JUST HAPPENING NOW,
00:15:17WITH A NEW ACCELERANT CALLED AI
00:15:20AND AUTOMATION. SO HOW DO WE GET MULTIPLE GENERATIONS FROM YOUR
00:15:24JUNIOR ENLISTED ALL THE WAY UP TO YOUR MOST SENIOR OFFICERS,
00:15:28UNDERSTANDING A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING AND THEN
00:15:31DRAWING THE RIGHT CONCLUSIONS FROM IT. IF YOU'RE USING CLAUDE, LIKE YOU WOULD GOOGLE, I
00:15:34CONTEND THAT YOU'RE PROBABLY IN THE WRONG ENVIRONMENT, AND YOU PROBABLY HAVE ALREADY MARKED
00:15:38YOURSELF IN ONE OF THOSE DEMOGRAPHICS THAT I JUST TALKED ABOUT, VERSUS SOMEBODY THAT'S
00:15:42OUT THERE ACTUALLY APPLYING THE AI TOOLS IN THE WAY THEY NEED TO
00:15:46BE. AND THE WAY THAT THIS UNFOLDED. AND I THINK A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THIS IS EPIC FURY. SO
00:15:50ON THE OPENING DAYS OF EPIC
00:15:52FURY, MOST OF THOSE TARGETS WERE STATIC TARGETS. WE HAD BEEN
00:15:56LOOKING AT IT. WE KNEW WHERE
00:15:58THEY WERE. UH, YOU COULD USE AI FOR THE WEAPON TARGET PAIRING TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAD THE
00:16:02OPTIMAL SOLUTION ON THERE. UH, ALL OF THOSE THINGS WERE
00:16:04RELEVANT. BUT THEN AS SOON AS
00:16:07THINGS KICKED OFF AND IT BECAME
00:16:11A DYNAMIC TARGET ENVIRONMENT, NOW IS WHEN YOU REALLY SEE THE POWER OF AI COMING TOGETHER AND
00:16:15HARNESSING A LOT OF WHAT YOU SEE. AND THEN I'LL COMPARE AND
00:16:17CONTRAST THAT WITH UKRAINE. BUT FOR THE DYNAMIC TARGET PICTURE,
00:16:21IT'S WHERE ARE THEY? SO AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE BATTLE SPACE THAT YOU'RE IN, AND THIS
00:16:25IS WHERE AI REALLY BEGAN TO EXCEL. AND IT DIDN'T ONLY EXCEL ON THE STRIKE SIDE, ON THE
00:16:29LOGISTICS SIDE, WITH US,
00:16:34TRANSCOM AS ACCESS BASING AND OVERFLIGHT BECAME A LITTLE BIT MORE RESTRICTED. IT WAS AI TOOLS
00:16:37THAT WERE USED AT HEADQUARTERS TRANSCOM TO BEGIN LOOKING AT
00:16:40DIFFERENT PLACES FOR US TO BASE
00:16:42AND MOVE LOGISTICS TO AND FROM
00:16:46THAT THEATER. INCREDIBLY HELPFUL. BUT REALLY, WHAT IT DID IS IT HELPED US MAINTAIN THAT
00:16:50TEMPO OF OPERATIONS THAT WE NEEDED TO. AND I THINK WHAT'S
00:16:53INTERESTING NOW IS, AND IT'S
00:16:56JUST A THEORY OR AN IDEA, BUT IT
00:16:58GOT US TO A CERTAIN POINT, AND
00:17:01WE'VE PLATEAUED RIGHT NOW. UH, SO HOW DOES IT HELP IN THE BLOCKADE? HOW DOES IT HELP WITH
00:17:05DYNAMIC TARGETING? THESE ARE NOW AREAS WITHIN AI AND AUTONOMY
00:17:08THAT I THINK THAT AT LEAST OUR UNDERSTANDING OF IT HAS, HAS
00:17:11PLATEAUED. AND WE'RE STARTING TO LEARN DIFFERENT WAYS IN WHICH TO EMPLOY AI. AND I'M HERE TO TELL
00:17:15YOU, IT'S NOT YOUR SENIOR OFFICERS THAT ARE SITTING UP ON
00:17:18THE STAGE TO UNDERSTAND THIS. IT'S A LOT OF YOUR JUNIOR
00:17:22ENLISTED AND JUNIOR OFFICERS THAT ARE FIGURING THIS OUT IN A
00:17:24REAL TIME MODE. BUT THAT SAME PIECE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING WHAT
00:17:27PROBLEM SETS THAT WE NEED TO UNCOVER AND THEN TACKLE IS THE
00:17:31SAME LESSON THAT I CONTEND THAT WE'RE LEARNING IN UKRAINE RIGHT
00:17:33NOW. FOR THEM, IT'S UKRAINE'S
00:17:36JOB RIGHT NOW. FOR EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY, TO
00:17:40OUTWIT AND OUTSMART THE RUSSIANS AND TO STAY AHEAD OF WHERE
00:17:43THEY'RE AT. AND THIS IS REALLY WHERE THEY'RE STARTING TO USE A
00:17:45LOT OF AI, A LITTLE BIT OF
00:17:48AUTOMATION, BUT A LOT OF AI TO REALLY START UNDERSTANDING
00:17:51WHAT'S HAPPENING NEXT. THEY'LL
00:17:53SEND A WAVE OF DRONES OUT ON THESE LONGER RANGE ATTACKS THAT
00:17:57WE'RE SEEING, AND THEY'RE
00:18:01ACTUALLY GETTING DATA TO COME BACK AND FEED IN NEW METHODS AND NEW ALGORITHMS, AND WHAT MIGHT BE IN ONE FREQUENCY SPECTRUM
00:18:05THAT WE SEND SOMETHING IN THAT RUSSIA HAS NOW OPTIMIZED FOR,
00:18:08THE NEXT WAVE HAPPENS TO BE IN A DIFFERENT FREQUENCY SPECTRUM. SO
00:18:11YOU CAN BOUNCE BACK AND FORTH. SO WE'RE STARTING TO SEE A
00:18:14LITTLE BIT OF THIS ADVANTAGE PLAY OUT. THE SCARY PART IS
00:18:18RUSSIA'S CATCHING UP PRETTY QUICK. AND THEY'RE STARTING TO FIGURE OUT THE SAME IDEAS. AND I
00:18:21THINK ON THE NEWS RECENTLY,
00:18:23WE'VE SEEN MULTIPLE STRIKES GOING BACK INTO KYIV. ONE OF THE INTERESTING STORIES I LIKE TO
00:18:27TELL, AND I THINK IT HAPPENED
00:18:29ABOUT 18 MONTHS AGO, IS A GROUP
00:18:31OF THREE DOCTORS HAD INVESTED
00:18:34THEIR OWN MONEY AROUND KYIV AND
00:18:35PUT IPHONES UP ON, LIKE A 18
00:18:39FOOT POLE, AND THEN CONNECTED THAT TO AN IPAD ON ONE OF THE
00:18:43ARTILLERY PIECES. AND WHAT THEY
00:18:46WERE DOING WAS OPTIMIZING THOSE IPHONES FOR ACOUSTIC SIGNATURES,
00:18:49OF LISTENING FOR SOME OF THOSE ONE WAY ATTACK DRONES COMING IN,
00:18:52AND THEN FROM THERE, FEEDING IT INTO THAT CENTRAL IPAD. SO
00:18:55YOU'RE STARTING TO SEE A LEVEL OF CONNECTEDNESS HAPPEN ACROSS
00:18:59THE FORCE AT A LOWER LEVEL. SO
00:19:02FOR A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS, THEY'RE PUTTING A LOW TECH
00:19:05SOLUTION AGAINST A LOW TECH PROBLEM. INSTEAD OF FIRING OFF A
00:19:08$3.3 MILLION PATRIOT TO
00:19:11INTERCEPT EVERY $40,000 DRONE THAT'S GOING OUT THERE. SO I DO THINK THAT REALLY WHAT IT'S
00:19:15DOING IS IT'S HELPING US
00:19:16LEAPFROG IN GENERATIONAL TERMS. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WE'RE
00:19:20GETTING AFTER FASTER? AND THEN HOW DO WE FIND SOLUTION SETS
00:19:23EVEN FASTER TO GET AFTER IT? >> THANK YOU SIR. AND IT'S A
00:19:26REMINDER OF ALL THE TALK OF HOW READINESS IS BEING DEGRADED WITH OPERATION EPIC FURY, WHICH IS
00:19:30THE CASE IN SOME CASES. WE'RE ALSO LEARNING A LOT, TOO, IN A WAY THAT IMPROVES READINESS. ON
00:19:34THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS EQUATION. OH, AND LET ME TURN TO YOU. YOU
00:19:37WERE THE LEAD AUTHOR OF THIS
00:19:40REPORT. WHAT DID THE RESEARCH
00:19:44REVEAL TO YOU THROUGHOUT THIS STUDY ON WHERE THE PENTAGON IS
00:19:46TODAY, IN TERMS OF FIELDING AI FOR DIGITAL ENVIRONMENTS AND
00:19:49WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO?
00:19:52>> YEAH. SO I THINK, UM, WHAT WAS VERY APPARENT THROUGHOUT THE
00:19:56COURSE OF THE RESEARCH AS NEW
00:19:57POLICIES CONTINUED TO COME OUT,
00:20:00RIGHT, IS THAT THE TECHNOLOGICAL PROGRESS IS ADVANCING REALLY
00:20:03QUICKLY IN THIS SPACE. AND SO
00:20:06POLICY IS BEING FORMULATED TO KEEP UP REALLY RAPIDLY. UM, AND
00:20:10SO EARLIER THIS YEAR, WE HAD THE AI ACCELERATION STRATEGY
00:20:13RELEASED BY THE DEPARTMENT. UM,
00:20:15AND I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF
00:20:18POSITIVE DEVELOPMENTS TO DRAW FROM WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THE
00:20:20DEPARTMENT WIDE LEVEL. SO, UM,
00:20:22AS I DISCUSSED IN THE REPORT, I
00:20:25THINK THE MORE AND BETTER
00:20:27OPPORTUNITIES WE CAN HAVE TO INCORPORATE WARFIGHTER FEEDBACK
00:20:30INTO AI SYSTEM DEVELOPMENT THROUGHOUT THE AI LIFECYCLE IS
00:20:34REALLY IMPERATIVE. AND SO WE'VE
00:20:37SEEN PROGRAMS LIKE SWARM FORGE
00:20:39AND THUNDER FORGE WHERE, UM, PROTOTYPING IS A REALLY
00:20:43IMPORTANT ASPECT WHERE WARFIGHTERS ARE GIVING FEEDBACK
00:20:46DIRECTLY TO DEVELOPERS. UM, FOR INSTANCE, THROUGH THE CRUCIBLE
00:20:49DEMOS THAT HAVE BEEN CONTINUING
00:20:51TO, TO, UH, THAT ARE ONGOING.
00:21:00AND SO GETTING THAT ITERATIVE FEEDBACK ABOUT WHAT WORKS, WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CLOSING THE LOOP ON HOW LONG IT TAKES TO INCORPORATE THAT FEEDBACK INTO
00:21:03DESIGN IS PRETTY IMPERATIVE. UM,
00:21:06I THINK THE NEXT STEPS FOR THE DEPARTMENT REALLY STEM FROM
00:21:10BRIDGING THE GAP BETWEEN WHERE THE TECHNOLOGY IS AND HOW THEY
00:21:14WANT IT TO BE ADOPTED, AND THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE POLICY THAT'S COMING OUT OF THE
00:21:18DEPARTMENT. SO, UM, FOR A LONG
00:21:20TIME, THE US DEPARTMENT OF WAR DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE HAS BEEN
00:21:24AT THE CUTTING EDGE WHEN IT COMES TO THINKING THROUGH
00:21:27INTEGRATION WITH WARFIGHTERS,
00:21:29THROUGH PRACTICES LIKE OPERATIONAL TEST AND EVALUATION
00:21:32FOR AI, TV. UM, LAST YEAR, THE
00:21:34DEPARTMENT RELEASED ITS AI ASSURANCE FRAMEWORK, FOR
00:21:37PILLARS, INCLUDING, AMONG THEM,
00:21:40INTEGRATION WITH LEGACY SYSTEMS, HUMAN FACTORS, TESTING. THIS
00:21:42STUFF IS REALLY IMPERATIVE TO
00:21:45ENSURING THAT, UM, CALIBRATED
00:21:48TRUST CAN BE ACHIEVED BY WARFIGHTERS IN THE SYSTEMS THAT
00:21:51THEY'RE GOING TO USE THAT INCORPORATE AI, PARTICULARLY IN
00:21:55DENIED ENVIRONMENTS, BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE SOME OF THE DECISION MAKING PRESSURE TO USE THESE TOOLS IS GOING TO BE
00:21:59GREATEST. UM, AND SO THAT
00:22:02FRAMEWORK IS COMPARATIVELY NEW SINCE IT WAS OUT LAST YEAR. I
00:22:06THINK A PRIORITY FOR THE DEPARTMENT SHOULD BE NOT TREATING THAT TESTING AND
00:22:10EVALUATION TYPE WORK OR HUMAN FACTORS, CONSIDERATIONS
00:22:13THROUGHOUT THE AI LIFE AS A HANDBRAKE, BUT RATHER TREATING
00:22:17THEM AS GUARDRAILS THAT CAN ENABLE US TO GO FASTER WHEN IT
00:22:19COMES TO INNOVATING IN THE THE
00:22:22MILITARY AI SPACE, PARTICULARLY
00:22:24WITH REGARD TO CONTESTED
00:22:28ENVIRONMENTS. >> THANK YOU JOHN. >> I'D LIKE TO TURN TO THE TOPIC OF TRUST. WE SEE BOTH IN
00:22:32POLLING BROADLY, LACK OF TRUST
00:22:34IN AI AND THE AMERICAN PUBLIC,
00:22:36BUT SPECIFICALLY IN THE MILITARY
00:22:38CONTEXT. UM, COMMANDERS NEED TO TRUST THAT THIS IS GOING TO
00:22:42WORK. YOU TALKED ABOUT DYNAMIC
00:22:44TARGETING. ARE WE GOING TO HIT THE TARGETS THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY
00:22:48AIMING AT? LIVES ARE ON THE LINE HERE. THE STAKES ARE MUCH HIGHER
00:22:51THAN WE THINK OF SOMETIMES IN THE COMMERCIAL WORLD. AND
00:22:55SOLDIERS, AS YOU WERE MENTIONING, OWN. THEY MUST TRUST
00:22:58THAT THEIR EQUIPMENT IS GOING TO WORK AS INTENDED IN THE FIGHT.
00:23:02AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT OUR ADVERSARIES, THROUGH VARIOUS
00:23:05METHODS, ARE GOING TO, UM, TRY
00:23:08TO IMPACT OUR SYSTEMS NEGATIVELY. AND IN MANY WAYS, AS
00:23:12YOU SAID, GENERAL CARTWRIGHT, THAT WE CANNOT PERCEIVE. ARE WE GETTING THE RIGHT DATA AND
00:23:16INFORMATION? IS IT ACCURATE? IN THE BRIEF WE TALKED, WE REFER TO
00:23:20A TERM CALLED JUSTIFIED
00:23:22CONFIDENCE AT THE SHOOTER DON'T SHOOT MOMENT WHEN A SYSTEM MIGHT
00:23:25BE OPERATING NEAR THE EDGE OF
00:23:27ITS COMPETENCY WITHOUT RELIABLY
00:23:30TELLING THE OPERATOR. AND SO MY QUESTION, I'LL START WITH YOU
00:23:33AGAIN, GENERAL CARTWRIGHT, IS
00:23:34WHAT ARE THE MOST CONCERNING
00:23:37CHALLENGES FOR A COMMANDER TO
00:23:40CONSIDER AS WE THINK OF DEPLOYING AI IN DIGITAL
00:23:44ENVIRONMENTS, COMPARED TO OTHER
00:23:48TECHNOLOGIES?
00:23:48>> UH, I THINK PROBABLY ONE, I
00:23:52MIGHT TAKE THE WORD AND, AND
00:23:56SHIFT IT TO RISK. UM, YES, IT'S
00:23:59CONFIDENCE. IT'S YES, IT'S, UM,
00:24:01TRUST ALL OF THOSE THINGS, BUT,
00:24:03BUT IT IS NOT UNIFORM ACROSS THE
00:24:09SPECTRUM OF CONFLICT. OKAY. AND SO IF YOU'RE IN A HEADQUARTERS
00:24:13AND YOU'RE BUILDING A NEW
00:24:14WIDGET, WHATEVER THAT WIDGET IS,
00:24:18THE TOLERANCE FOR ANYTHING THAT WON'T DO WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO
00:24:21DO IS PRETTY MUCH ZERO. OKAY. IN THE FIELD. IT'S NOT THAT WAY.
00:24:25ONCE YOU GET TO THE COMBATANT
00:24:29COMMANDER AND LOWER, THE RISK IS
00:24:31REALLY MORE ABOUT, DO I HAVE ANY
00:24:33ALTERNATIVES TO PURSUE MY OBJECTIVE AND SUCCESSFULLY
00:24:37CAPTURE THAT OBJECTIVE? UH, IF I
00:24:41CONTINUE ON THE WAY I'M DOING IT, OR DO I NEED TO CHANGE? DO I
00:24:44NEED TO TRUST SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW A LOT ABOUT, BUT EMPLOY IT
00:24:47ANYWAY? AND, AND SO WHAT YOU
00:24:51FIND KIND OF AT THE COCKPIT OR FOXHOLE LEVEL IS, OKAY, THEY
00:24:55GAVE ME THIS THING YESTERDAY WAS
00:25:00REALLY UGLY. I'M WILLING TO TAKE IT OUT THERE JUST TO MAKE
00:25:03SURE I GET TO COME HOME, OR AT LEAST HAVE A BETTER CHANCE TO
00:25:06COME HOME. OKAY. AND SO THERE'S
00:25:08TWO VERY DIFFERENT RISK CALCULUS
00:25:11BEING PUT AGAINST THE SAME SYSTEM. AND THE TOLERANCE AT THE
00:25:14EDGE IS DRAMATICALLY HIGHER IN
00:25:18CONTEXT THAN IT IS BACK AT THE HEADQUARTERS, SO TO SPEAK, OF A
00:25:22SERVICE OR THE DEPARTMENT OF
00:25:23DEFENSE OR WAR. UM, AND SO YOU,
00:25:27YOU NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
00:25:30AND WHEN YOU GET TO THE HIGHER HEADQUARTERS, WHERE IT'S A KIND
00:25:33OF A VERY LOW RISK OR NO RISK
00:25:36ENVIRONMENT, YOU ALSO HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT THE METRIC
00:25:40IS FOR VALUE. UM, AND NINE TIMES
00:25:42OUT OF TEN, THE METRIC FOR VALUE
00:25:45IS I'M A PERSON AND I CAN DO IT
00:25:49BETTER. OKAY. WHICH
00:25:51MATHEMATICALLY, EMPIRICALLY IS
00:25:53ALMOST NEVER THE CASE. BUT IN
00:25:57PSYCHOLOGY IS ALWAYS THE CASE.
00:25:59AND SO YOU'RE TRYING TO, TO
00:26:02SAY, OKAY, YEAH, I GOT IT. YOU
00:26:05WATCHED, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING NOT FUNCTION THE WAY IT WAS SUPPOSED
00:26:08TO IN THE FIELD. OKAY. UM, AND
00:26:12THEREFORE I'M, YOU KNOW, I'M NEVER GOING TO DO THAT AGAIN.
00:26:14BUT THE GUY WHO HAD IT NOT WORK,
00:26:17YOU KNOW, NUMBER 1st MAY HAVE MADE A MISTAKE, MAY HAVE NOT HAD
00:26:21A TOOL THAT ACTUALLY WORKED FOR THAT PARTICULAR ENVIRONMENT, BUT
00:26:24I'M SURE I'M GOING TO CARRY IT BACK OUT THERE THE NEXT DAY JUST
00:26:27TO BE HAVE ANYTHING, YOU KNOW,
00:26:31THAT WORKS. AND SO YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU, UH, COUCH
00:26:34THE CRITERIA IN SOMETHING THAT IS ACTUALLY USEFUL AND
00:26:38MEASURABLE IN THE CONTEXT IN WHICH YOU'RE DOING THE
00:26:42BUSINESS. AND, YOU KNOW, AND WE HAVE ALL HEARD THE DIFFERENT
00:26:45STORIES ABOUT, OH, YOU KNOW, I SAW THAT DRIVING CAR, YOU KNOW, SELF-DRIVING CAR, IT DROVE INTO
00:26:48A TREE OR, YOU KNOW, IT, IT RAN
00:26:50OFF A DITCH. UM, AND YET WE
00:26:54FAILED TO SEE THAT, YOU KNOW,
00:26:59WITH SELF-DRIVING VEHICLES OR COMBINES OR WHATEVER IT IS, THEY
00:27:00MAY HAVE MADE ONE MISTAKE DURING
00:27:03THE DAY, BUT THERE'S 100 PEOPLE
00:27:05THAT DIED DRIVING CARS THAT DAY.
00:27:10AND DROVE AND DIED BECAUSE OF HUMAN ERROR. AND SO YOU WANT TO
00:27:14TAKE A LOOK AT THIS. AND IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT BECAUSE THAT'S
00:27:17PART OF THE STAGES OF GRIEVING, THE DENIAL STAGE HERE OF, YOU KNOW, OKAY, YOU KNOW, THIS
00:27:21CAN'T NEVER WORK. AND I'M NEVER GOING TO DO THIS. AND, AND I
00:27:24PULL UP SOMETHING. THE PROBLEM HERE ALSO IS THAT THE, THE PACE
00:27:28OF IMPROVEMENT AND CHANGE IS DRAMATICALLY FASTER. I CAN GIVE
00:27:32YOU AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT
00:27:33DIDN'T WORK LAST WEEK AND HAS
00:27:36ALREADY BEEN FIXED THIS WEEK.
00:27:38AND SO THE, THE EDGE BATTLE SPACE IS FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT
00:27:42IN THE SPEED IN WHICH IT CAN REACT. UM, PARTICULARLY AS YOU
00:27:46SEE IN THE CASE OF STATIONARY
00:27:48TARGETS VERSUS DYNAMIC TARGETING
00:27:51AND DYNAMIC ACTIVITIES ON THE
00:27:52BATTLE SPACE. SO I URGE PEOPLE,
00:27:56AS THEY LOOK AT IT, AND AS
00:27:58COMMANDERS LOOK AT IT, ONE IS TO BE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT THE CONTEXT
00:28:02IN WHICH YOU'RE EVALUATING IT.
00:28:04AND THEN, SECOND, TO GIVE IT THE
00:28:07OPPORTUNITY, BECAUSE IT'S BETTER THAN NOTHING. OFTENTIMES, IF YOU
00:28:10DON'T KNOW HOW THE PROBLEM
00:28:14MANIFESTED ITSELF OR HOW TO DEAL WITH IT. AND SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S PROBABLY PLENTY OF
00:28:18BATTLE SPACE ACTIVITIES THAT ARE GOING ON RIGHT NOW THAT PROVE
00:28:20THAT OUT, BUT I CAN REMEMBER,
00:28:25UM, EARLY STAGES OF VIETNAM, WE HAD THIS THING CALLED A
00:28:28HELICOPTER, OKAY. AND WE MOVED
00:28:31TO A NEW HELICOPTER THAT WAS CALLED THE 46. IT HAD TWO ROTORS, ONE IN THE FRONT AND THE
00:28:35BACK, AND A COUPLE OF THEM
00:28:40SEPARATED. OKAY. AND I CAN REMEMBER, YOU KNOW, STANDING THERE IN THE ZONE AND GOING, WHY DON'T YOU GET ON FIRST? WHY
00:28:43DON'T YOU GET ON FIRST? OKAY. BUT THERE WASN'T ANY CHOICE. AND YOU COULD LOOK BEHIND YOU.
00:28:47AND THERE WERE PEOPLE COMING
00:28:49WITH GUNS. SO, SO THE IMPERATIVE
00:28:53IS FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT THERE THAN IT WAS, SAY, BACK AT, YOU KNOW, COMPANY X THAT WAS
00:28:56BUILDING IT. AND SO IT'S
00:29:00DIFFICULT. YOU HAVE TO DO THIS. BUT A LOT OF THIS ACTIVITY,
00:29:03QUITE FRANKLY, AT THE END OF THE DAY, UM, BOILS DOWN TO, DO I
00:29:07HAVE THE RIGHT RISK CONTEXT IN WHICH TO THINK ABOUT THE
00:29:10PROBLEM? AND THEN WHAT ARE THE TOOLS THAT I HAVE TO MITIGATE?
00:29:13IF IT'S NOT TAKING ME WHERE I WANT TO GO?
00:29:16>> I THINK HE BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT, SIR, ABOUT THE RISK. AND
00:29:19IT'S REFRAMING THE QUESTION. SO JUST 30s REAL QUICK, IF I COULD,
00:29:23I, I DON'T WANT OUR OPERATORS TO
00:29:27TRUST AN AI TOOL, WHAT I WANT TO
00:29:28DO AND TEACH THEM INSTEAD IS
00:29:31WHEN IS THE TOOL WORKING? AM I GETTING THE EXPECTED OUTCOMES OF THOSE? BUT IT DOES TIE BACK TO
00:29:35RISK. IT'S THE PROBABILITY OF SOMETHING HAPPENING. AND THEN THE IMPACT, IF IT REALLY DOES
00:29:39HAPPEN. SO IN, IN THAT FRAMEWORK, I NEED TO TEACH THESE
00:29:43OPERATORS WHAT HAPPENS IF THIS ISN'T WORKING THE WAY IT'S
00:29:45SUPPOSED TO. AND THE REAL, UH,
00:29:49THE REAL UNDERLYING AND THE DEEP PIECE ON THIS ONE IS IT'S REAL
00:29:53EASY WHEN YOU CAN LOOK AT SOMETHING AND YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE SOME BAD INFORMATION, YOUR DATA
00:29:56IS CORRUPTED, YOUR COMPUTE WAS INSUFFICIENT, SOMETHING LIKE
00:29:59THAT. THAT'S NOT THE CASE I'M TALKING ABOUT. I THINK THE CASE
00:30:04THAT WE REALLY NEED TO WORRY ABOUT IS WHEN IT'S INSIDIOUS, AND YOU GET A SOLUTION THAT YOU
00:30:06THINK MIGHT BE TRUE AND YOU
00:30:10EXECUTE ON IT. THAT'S THE PART WHERE WE REALLY HAVE TO START UNDERSTANDING FUNDAMENTALLY WHAT
00:30:13RISK IS, BECAUSE IN A DIGITAL ENVIRONMENT, YOUR PHYSICAL
00:30:16INFRASTRUCTURE, YOUR ELECTRICAL POWER, YOUR COMPUTE MAY BE IN
00:30:19ONE PLACE, BUT YOUR ALGORITHMS, YOUR CHIPS AND EVERYTHING ELSE
00:30:22ARE FORWARD. AND UNTIL THEY ACTUALLY HAVE A CHANCE TO SYNC
00:30:25UP TO GO, HERE'S WHAT I'M SEEING. AND HERE'S THE ACTION I
00:30:28TOOK. YOUR HEADQUARTERS ISN'T GOING TO KNOW. SO I THINK THIS WHOLE RISK TOLERANCE PIECE IS
00:30:33SOMETHING TO UNPACK A LITTLE BIT MORE. >> AND LET ME ASK ONE QUESTION
00:30:35TO CONTINUE ON THAT THEN. SO WHEN YOU WERE MANAGING AIR FORCE
00:30:38FUTURES, HOW DID THE HOW DID THE AIR FORCE THINK ABOUT? HOW DID
00:30:42YOU THINK ABOUT ENSURING GREATER
00:30:44RELIABILITY SO THAT THERE WAS GREATER TRUST AMONG THE SOLDIERS
00:30:48AND COMMANDERS, OR THEIR STEPS THAT YOU'D TAKE? >> THERE WAS THERE WAS TWO
00:30:51THINGS THAT WE PUT IN PLACE, AND I THINK IT'S BETTER IF I IF I KIND OF GIVE YOU A VIGNETTE OR A
00:30:55STORY ABOUT WHAT WE DID. UH, SO ANDREW AND GENERAL ATOMICS HAVE
00:30:59JUST BEEN AWARDED OUR COLLABORATIVE COMBAT AIRCRAFT.
00:31:02AND IT'S WHERE THE BRAINS OF THIS COLLABORATIVE COMBAT AIRCRAFT ARE REALLY AN AI MODEL
00:31:06THAT ARE RUN BY DIFFERENT COMPANIES. BUT WHAT YOU DON'T
00:31:09WANT TO DO IS YOU DON'T WANT TO SIT HERE AND HAVE AN UNMANNED
00:31:13PLATFORM FLYING IN FORMATION WITH A MANNED PLATFORM, OR MORE
00:31:16IMPORTANTLY, SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO JOIN IT IN SOME WEIRD WAY THAT YOU WEREN'T EXPECTING
00:31:20AGAIN, AN EDGE CASE, RIGHT? SO THE WAY THAT WE LOOKED AT
00:31:24GUARDRAILS FOR THIS IS, ONE, WE ESTABLISHED AN EXPERIMENTAL
00:31:27OPERATIONS UNIT, AN IOU. AND THIS IS REALLY TAKING THIS OUT
00:31:29FOR A TEST DRIVE TO SEE WHAT ARE THE LEFT AND RIGHT LIMITS. WE
00:31:33KNOW WHAT THE VENDOR SAID IT WAS SUPPOSED TO DO. ARE THEY REALLY HAPPENING THIS WAY? AND IF THEY
00:31:37AREN'T HAPPENING THAT WAY, GIVE IT BACK TO THE VENDOR AND LET'S
00:31:40WORK WITH THEM. SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE INDUSTRY ENGINEERS AND
00:31:44OPERATORS ALL TOGETHER IN ONE ENVIRONMENT, REALLY UNPACKING
00:31:47WHAT'S HAPPENING. AND THEN WHEN THAT HAPPENS, YOU NEED TO UPDATE YOUR TACTICS AND YOU NEED TO
00:31:51UPDATE YOUR PROCEDURES AND THEN TAKE IT BACK OUT FOR A TEST
00:31:53DRIVE TO SEE IF IT REALLY DID
00:31:56WORK. BUT THAT ALSO PREDICATES ON THE FACT THAT WE REALLY NEED
00:31:59SOME, SOME TYPE OF SANDBOX IN
00:32:02WHICH TO TEST THESE TOOLS OUT, AND TO GO TRAIN WITH THEM. THIS
00:32:04IS HOW YOU START BUILDING
00:32:07CONFIDENCE OR COMPETENCE AND CONFIDENCE IN YOUR OPERATORS TO USE THE TOOLS THAT WE GIVE THEM
00:32:11FOR THIS. SO FOR ME, IT WAS REALLY ABOUT SETTING UP THE
00:32:15EXPERT, THE EXPERIMENTAL OPERATIONS UNIT. AND THEN THE OTHER PART OF IT IS REALLY
00:32:19SETTING UP AN AREA AND AN ENVIRONMENT, JUST LIKE WE DO AT
00:32:22NATIONAL TRAINING CENTER, JUST LIKE WE DO AT JRTC OR AT NELLIS.
00:32:26IN SOME OF OUR RED FLAGS. BUT YOU HAVE TO TAKE THIS OUT FOR A
00:32:29TEST DRIVE. TRY IT AND SEE
00:32:30WHAT'S HAPPENED, AND DO IT IN A
00:32:34CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT. AND THAT'S WHAT HELPS YOU BUILD THE CONFIDENCE IN THERE.
00:32:37>> THANK YOU.
00:32:39>> I THINK THERE'S A THERE'S ANOTHER.
00:32:42>> PIECE THAT THAT COMES IN. THERE ARE THERE ARE CLIFFS, SO TO SPEAK, IN THE DEVELOPMENT. AND, UM, WHAT WE'VE SEEN BOTH
00:32:46IN THE AGRICULTURE SIDE OF THE
00:32:48EQUATION AND IN THE CAR SIDE OF
00:32:51THE EQUATION, IS WHEN YOU GET TO A POINT WHERE THE, WHERE THE
00:32:54SYSTEM HAS A WAY TO TELL YOU
00:32:58IT'S NOT NOT COMFORTABLE AND THAT IT CAN TAKE YOU THROUGH A
00:33:00GRACEFUL DEGRADATION OF ITS
00:33:03CAPABILITY. REED WITH A CAR, PULL OFF TO THE SIDE AND SHUT
00:33:06DOWN AND SAY, OKAY, YOU GOT TO FIX THIS. I'M UNCOMFORTABLE. I CAN'T NAVIGATE IT. AND YOU DO
00:33:10IT MANUALLY, OR YOU GO, YEAH, OKAY. UM, AND THE SAME IN THE
00:33:14FIELD. AND SO WHEN YOU GET TO THAT POINT WHERE THERE'S THE
00:33:17ABILITY AND GUARDRAIL KINDS OF
00:33:20MINDSETS TO SAY, OKAY, I'M NOT
00:33:24GETTING ENOUGH INFORMATION. THIS IS THE AI PERSON. I'M NOT GETTING ENOUGH INFORMATION TO
00:33:27FEEL COMFORTABLE TO DO THIS FOR YOU. OKAY. I NEED TO TELL YOU
00:33:31THAT. AND I NEED TO BE ABLE TO TAKE YOU THROUGH A GRACEFUL
00:33:34DEGRADATION THAT GETS ME OUT OF THIS PROBLEM INTO A SAFE PLACE.
00:33:38ONCE YOU GET THAT, THERE SEEMS
00:33:40TO BE A PRETTY BIG ACCELERATION
00:33:43IN THE TRUST FACTOR. UM, BECAUSE
00:33:46YOU'RE, YOU'RE IN A POSITION, THEN YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE AN
00:33:50OUT AND YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE A WAY TO UNDERSTAND IF THE, IF THE
00:33:53SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING, FOR INSTANCE, IN THE CAR, UM, YOU
00:33:57KNOW, IT'S RAINING OUT. OKAY, I
00:33:59MAY BE DEGRADED. OKAY. IT'S
00:34:03RAINING REALLY HARD. I'M GOING
00:34:04TO SLOW YOU DOWN BELOW THE SPEED
00:34:07LIMIT. IT'S RAINING EVEN HARDER. I THINK IT'S TIME TO
00:34:10PULL OFF TO THE SIDE. UM, YOU
00:34:13SAY I JUST DON'T TAKE ANY ACTION. I'LL JUST SEE WHAT YOU DO. IT PULLS OFF TO THE SIDE AND
00:34:17IT WAITS. SO IF. IF YOU HAVE.
00:34:20AND THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE ANSWER FOR EVERY PROBLEM, BUT IT
00:34:23IS, IT IS ONE OF THE FACTORS THAT WE SAW, BOTH IN THE
00:34:27AGRICULTURAL SIDE. AND THE OTHER IS THIS GRACEFUL DEGRADATION
00:34:31IDEA GIVES YOU A SET OF GUARDRAILS THAT YOU CAN START TO
00:34:33THINK. SO IF THE AIRPLANE PULLS
00:34:36UP NEXT TO ME AND IT'S UPSIDE
00:34:37DOWN, YOU KNOW, OKAY, THAT'S NOT PLANE FARE. UM, YOU KNOW, WE
00:34:41WANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT OUT OF
00:34:43THE BEHAVIOR. UM, TO ME, THAT'S,
00:34:47THAT'S ONE OF THE KNEES IN THE CURVE WHERE YOU START TO REALIZE YOU'RE STARTING TO STARTING TO
00:34:50GET TOWARDS SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY USE. >> THAT'S HELPFUL. OH, AND LET
00:34:53ME TURN TO YOU NOW. UM, THE
00:34:57REPORT DISCUSSED AI APPLICATIONS
00:35:03AND CAPABILITIES THAT ACTUALLY, IF USED, COULD BE IMMEDIATELY USEFUL AT THE TACTICAL EDGE ON
00:35:07THE BATTLEFIELD. CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT SOME OF THESE
00:35:10CAPABILITIES ARE AND WHY THEY WOULD BE USEFUL?
00:35:12>> YEAH, I THINK, UM, YOU KNOW, MOST OF US ARE, THE PUBLIC IS
00:35:16GAINING A GREATER FAMILIARITY
00:35:19WITH A LOT OF THE TOPICS, A LOT OF THE CAPABILITIES THAT ARE
00:35:23USEFUL FOR EDGE AI. SO, UM,
00:35:25SPECIFICALLY FOR DIGITAL ENVIRONMENTS, THE APPLICATIONS
00:35:29WHERE YOU CAN LOSE CONNECTIVITY, UH, AS WAS DISCUSSED EARLIER,
00:35:32BACK TO THE HUMAN OPERATOR. AND THE SYSTEM CONTINUES TO FUNCTION
00:35:36ANYWAY, ARE SOME OF THE MOST USEFUL APPLICATION CASES IN
00:35:39CONTESTED ENVIRONMENTS. SO
00:35:41THINKING AI ENABLED AUTOMATIC TARGET RECOGNITION, UM, SOME OF
00:35:45YOU MAY HAVE EVEN GOTTEN A NEW YORK TIMES NOTIFICATION ON YOUR
00:35:48PHONE TODAY THAT THAT HAPPENED
00:35:49IN UKRAINE, RIGHT? UM, AUTOMATIC
00:35:52LOCK ON CAPABILITIES. UM, ALSO DECISION SUPPORT SYSTEMS, RIGHT.
00:35:56ARE THE AI ENABLED SYSTEMS THAT
00:35:59FEED UP INTO OPERATIONAL LEVEL DECISION SUPPORT SYSTEMS ARE
00:36:02OFTEN USEFUL FOR GIVING PEOPLE FURTHER BACK FROM THE IMMEDIATE
00:36:06EDGE, A SENSE OF WHERE, UM, AS
00:36:10GENERAL CARTWRIGHT WAS SAYING EARLIER, UM, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU
00:36:12CAN START TO MAKE OPERATIONAL
00:36:15PLANS THAT, UH, HIT TARGETS, GET
00:36:19FORCES TO AREAS WHERE THEY NEED
00:36:20TO BE. UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW,
00:36:24WHILE THERE IS GROWING FAMILIARITY WITH THE USEFULNESS
00:36:27OF AI IN THESE SETTINGS, I
00:36:29THINK, UM, THE CHALLENGE AGAIN,
00:36:31GOES BACK TO GIVING OPERATORS A SENSE OF WHEN TO UNDERSTAND. I
00:36:34NEED TO USE THIS BECAUSE I'M IN
00:36:38A SCENARIO WHERE, UM, IT'S MAKE OR BREAK, OR DO I TRUST THE
00:36:40SYSTEM ENOUGH TO USE IT? AND SO,
00:36:43UM, AGAIN, THROUGHOUT THIS KIND
00:36:46OF ITERATIVE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE DEPARTMENT CAN REALLY MAKE
00:36:50STRIDES IN THINKING THROUGH HOW TO INCORPORATE, UM, PEOPLE WITH
00:36:54OPERATIONAL TESTING EXPERTISE
00:36:57CLOSER TO THE EDGE TO START TO GIVE FEEDBACK ON HERE'S WHERE
00:37:00THE SYSTEM PERFORMED WELL OUT IN THE FIELD, RATHER THAN TRYING TO
00:37:02GET DATA FROM HEADQUARTERS OR SEND THINGS BACK.
00:37:05>> LET'S TRY TO FIX THIS ISSUE OUT WHILE WE'RE NEARER TO THE
00:37:09EDGE. SO THERE'S A LOT OF
00:37:12OPPORTUNITY, I THINK, TO IMPROVE
00:37:14SOME OF THESE CAPABILITIES. PART OF IT IS ALSO THE LACK OF DATA
00:37:17THAT, UH, AI EDGE CAPABILITIES,
00:37:22UM, NECESSARILY HAVE BECAUSE,
00:37:23UM, YOU KNOW, THESE SYSTEMS ARE,
00:37:26UH, PUT INTO SCENARIOS WHERE THERE'S ACTUALLY NOT A
00:37:29TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF DATA FOR
00:37:30THEM TO TRAIN ON. AND SO, UM
00:37:35THIS AI SYSTEM, I THINK, UM, SO
00:37:39PART OF IT TOO, IS THESE SYSTEMS WILL CONTINUE TO IMPROVE,
00:37:42IMPROVE AS THEY GET BETTER OPERATIONAL DATA AT THE EDGE. UM, BUT HOW CAN WE MAKE SURE
00:37:46THAT THEY'RE EFFECTIVE IN THE SHORT TERM, UH, ESPECIALLY AS
00:37:50THEY GET APPLIED IN NEW
00:37:52CONTEXTS? UM, SO YEAH. >> SO IN THE NEW CONTEXT,
00:37:56THERE'S ANOTHER VIGNETTE. IF I
00:37:56COULD JUMP IN. SO THE, THE
00:38:00VIGNETTE THAT WHEN YOU ASKED ME BEFORE ABOUT AN AIR FORCE
00:38:02FUTURES, HOW DO WE LOOK AT THIS? ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE
00:38:06WRESTLED WITH EARLY ON WAS, HOW DO WE IMPROVE WARGAMING? AND WHEN I GOT INTO THE JOB,
00:38:10INITIALLY, I LOOKED AT IT AND I THOUGHT IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE A
00:38:13DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS GAME, WHERE SOMEBODY THREW A DICE OUT AND WE
00:38:16FIGURED OUT WHAT MOVES, COUNTER MOVES, TABLETOP EXERCISES,
00:38:19THINGS LIKE THAT. AND YOU QUICKLY REALIZE IT'S A COMPLEX
00:38:23SERIES OF MODELING AND ANALYSIS AND ALL THE DIFFERENT SYSTEMS WE WANT TO PUT TOGETHER. BUT WHAT
00:38:26WE DIDN'T HAVE WAS AN ADJUDICATION MODEL. AND THIS IS
00:38:29WHERE AI REALLY BECAME HELPFUL FOR US AS WE LOOKED TO A
00:38:32DIFFERENT COMPANY, TO BE ABLE TO START PULLING ALL THIS TOGETHER,
00:38:36WE REALIZED THAT A LOT OF OUR NUCLEAR SYSTEMS THAT WE HAD, THEY WERE WRITTEN ON PUNCH CARDS
00:38:39WITH FORTRAN, ALL THE WAY UP TO
00:38:40THINGS WHERE WE HAVE PYTHON AND
00:38:44R AND C++. YOU HAVE A DIVERSE CODING ECOSYSTEM OUT THERE THAT
00:38:48WE HAD TO PULL TOGETHER. SO STEP ONE WAS PULLING ALL THIS
00:38:51TOGETHER THAT WASN'T AT A HIGH PRICE POINT FOR THE DEPARTMENT
00:38:55TO BE ABLE TO, TO GO FORTH AND BE ABLE TO COMMON FLEET, ALL OF
00:38:58THE DIFFERENT MODELS WE HAD. AND WHEN WE DID, THE COMPANY THAT WE
00:39:02WORKED WITH, THEY BROUGHT ME UP AND THEY SHOWED ME SOMETHING. I'LL JUST CUT TO THE PUNCH LINE
00:39:06AS I'M SITTING THERE, AND THERE'S THIS YOUNG CROWD AROUND
00:39:09ME, AND THEY'RE ALL THE CODE CODERS, DEVELOPERS, AND, AND
00:39:12GRAPHIC DESIGNERS. AND THEY SAID, HEY, DO YOU PLAY VIDEO
00:39:14GAMES? AND I'M LIKE, LOOK AT ME. I'M 55 YEARS OLD. NO, I DON'T PLAY VIDEO GAMES. BUT MY SON
00:39:18DOES. HE SAID, INTERESTING. WHAT GAME DOES HE PLAY? AND I SAID,
00:39:21WELL, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE. ONE THAT I THREW OUT CALL OF DUTY.
00:39:25AND HE SAID, HI, I'M THE CO-DEVELOPER OF CALL OF DUTY.
00:39:29AND HE SHOWED ME WHEN HE PULLED THE SCREEN UP, ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS, ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE
00:39:33WORLD. AT THE TIME, IT WAS LIKE A HEAT MAP OF EVERYBODY PLAYING
00:39:36CALL OF DUTY, AND IT WAS RED, YELLOW AND GREEN. SO RED IS WHEN
00:39:39PEOPLE ARE CLICKING AND THEN STOP BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO PLAY ANYMORE, OR SOMETHING
00:39:43HAPPENED, AND THEY'RE USING TOOLS BEHIND THE SCENES TO
00:39:46FIGURE OUT WHY. SO HE ZEROED IN ON ONE. AND EVERY TIME THEY TURN
00:39:49THE CORNER, THIS ONE GUY, THEY COULDN'T SEE IT. IT WAS
00:39:52PIXILATED UP IN THE CORNER. SO THEY WOULD REAL QUICK ADJUST IT.
00:39:55BUT THEN THERE WAS A SECONDARY EFFECT ON THE NEXT LEVEL. THAT
00:39:58SAME SCREEN WAS PIXELATED, BUT
00:40:02ANOTHER AREA WAS PIXELATED. SO THERE'S ALWAYS A DIFFERENT
00:40:06EFFECT THAT THIS THING HAD SECOND AND THIRD ORDER DOWN THE ROAD. BUT WHAT WAS EVEN MORE
00:40:09INTERESTING TO ME WAS HE DREW A BOX AROUND CHINA, AND THEN HE
00:40:13DREW IT AROUND THE CMC ACADEMY
00:40:15OF WHERE THEY'RE ALL STUDYING.
00:40:17AND HE SHOWED EVERY MOVE AND
00:40:21EVERY, EVERY MOVE AND EVERY PURCHASE THAT THEY WERE MAKING
00:40:24ON A WHOLE SEPARATE SCREEN. THAT
00:40:27DATA BEING FED INTO A MODEL MADE
00:40:30ME REALIZE, RIGHT THEN, MY JOB IS PROTECT OUR DATA AND CORRUPT
00:40:33THE ADVERSARIES, AND THEIR JOB
00:40:36IS TO CORRUPT MY DATA AND PROTECT THEIRS. THIS WAR IS BECOMING A WAR OF DATA. AND HOW
00:40:40DO WE, HOW DO WE PROTECT IT? AND IF YOU DON'T THINK THAT CHINA IS DOING THAT TO US RIGHT NOW,
00:40:43OR RUSSIA IS DOING THAT TO US
00:40:46RIGHT NOW, EVERY ONE OF THOSE SCREENS THAT WE SCROLL THROUGH, AND WE CLICKED ACCEPT THE TERMS
00:40:49OF AND GO ON JUST SO WE CAN PLAY THE GAME. THEY'RE USING OUR
00:40:53DATA TO BE ABLE TO HELP INFORM
00:40:54SOME OF THESE MODELS.
00:40:59>> AND, AND WE KNOW THAT ALL OF THIS, WE PUT IT UNDER THE BROAD CONCEPT OF FUTURE WAR. BUT WE
00:41:02KNOW THIS HAS IMPLICATIONS FOR
00:41:05FORCE STRUCTURE, FORCE DESIGN,
00:41:08FORCE DEVELOPMENT, THE UNIFIED COMMAND PLAN, THE GLOBAL FORCE
00:41:12MANAGEMENT PROCESS. ALL THESE TERMS WE USE IN THE DEPARTMENT,
00:41:16WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IN NEW
00:41:17AND DIFFERENT WAYS. AND THIS
00:41:21BROADLY FALLS UNDER THE BUCKET
00:41:22OF THE ACRONYM DOTMLPF. BUT
00:41:26IT'S A CHALLENGE BECAUSE THE
00:41:27TECHNOLOGY IS MOVING SO MUCH
00:41:30FASTER THAN THE BUILDING'S ABILITY TO KEEP TO KEEP PACE,
00:41:34THAT WE'RE WORKING FEVERISHLY AT IT. AND I THINK WE NEED TO APPLAUD THE EFFORTS THAT ARE
00:41:38TAKING PLACE TODAY. THE REPORT FOCUSES ON TRAINING. WE KNOW
00:41:41EACH OF THE SERVICES ARE DOING THIS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY. THERE'S SOME ANALOGIES TO HOW
00:41:45WE DID CYBER TRAINING, SOME ANALOGIES TO NUCLEAR AS WELL. WE
00:41:49KNOW WE'RE TRYING TO UPDATE
00:41:51CONCEPTS IN OUR IN OUR DOCTRINE AND JOINT PUBLICATIONS, UM, AND
00:41:55HOW WE'RE TRYING TO ORGANIZE
00:41:57OURSELVES. WHAT I'M CURIOUS IN GENERAL, HARRIS, I'LL START WITH
00:42:00YOU ON THIS. AS WE THINK ABOUT
00:42:02THIS PROBLEM SET, WHICH IS
00:42:07MASSIVE ACROSS.MIL, PHP AND AS WE THINK SPECIFICALLY OF AL AND
00:42:10DDL ENVIRONMENTS, WHERE SHOULD
00:42:13WE PRIORITIZE OUR NEAR-TERM
00:42:16EFFORTS TO TRAINING? IS IT UPDATING THE CONCEPTS? IS IT
00:42:18FORCE STRUCTURE? WHERE SHOULD WE
00:42:23REALLY FOCUS? >> IT'S HARD TO SINGLE OUT JUST ONE AREA TO PRIORITIZE, BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S A CERTAIN NUMBER
00:42:26OF SYSTEMS THAT RUN IN PARALLEL
00:42:28THAT ALL FEED OFF OF EACH OTHER. BUT LET ME OFFER YOU THIS.
00:42:32FIRST. I THINK THAT THERE IS A,
00:42:34THE, THERE IS A PHYSICAL PIECE
00:42:37OF THIS THAT NEEDS TO BE UNDERSTOOD. AND THAT IS, WHERE
00:42:40ARE WE HOUSING? ALL OF THE, ALL OF THE, THE PHYSICAL
00:42:43INFRASTRUCTURE. WHERE'S THE ELECTRICITY COMING FROM? WHERE
00:42:47IS THE COMPUTE COMING FROM? UH, MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE ASSURED
00:42:49ACCESS TO SOME OF THE AI
00:42:53ALGORITHMS. THAT'S STEP ONE FOR ME. AND I THINK WHEN I LOOK AT
00:42:57DOT MIL, IT'S A VERY UNCONVENTIONAL WAY OF LOOKING AT
00:43:00A WAY THAT WE WOULD PURCHASE OR ACQUIRE AN AIRCRAFT, OR A
00:43:03HELICOPTER, OR A TANK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THIS IS,
00:43:06THIS IS DIFFERENT. AND IT'S NOT EVEN REALLY SOFTWARE, BECAUSE SOFTWARE IS JUST ONE PIECE OF IT
00:43:09ON THE MODEL PIECE. IT'S, YOU STILL NEED ACCESS TO THE CHIPS,
00:43:13TO THE POWER, TO THE COOLING, TO THE FACILITIES, ALL OF THOSE
00:43:17THINGS. AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING,
00:43:18I MEAN, WHEN SOMEBODY GIVES YOU A PICTURE OF AI AND PUTS A POWER
00:43:22PLANT ON THERE, THAT'S NOT A SEXY, ATTRACTIVE PICTURE FOR AI.
00:43:26THAT'S NOT WHAT WE THINK OF. BUT MAN, WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE
00:43:29THAT, YOUR WHOLE SYSTEM FALLS
00:43:31APART. THE NEXT PART OF THIS IS WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT IN THE VERY
00:43:34BEGINNING. AND I THINK THERE IS A TRAINING ASPECT WHEN ALL OF
00:43:37THOSE THINGS COME TOGETHER, YOU
00:43:38NOW HAVE TO GET THE OPERATORS
00:43:42COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT THEY'RE DOING. AND I STILL BELIEVE YOU
00:43:46NEED SOME AREA THAT'S A SAFE SPACE WHERE YOU CAN GO AND TEST OUT THE NEW APPLICATIONS, THE
00:43:48NEW LMS. WHAT ARE THESE ALGORITHMS DOING AND HOW ARE
00:43:51THEY HELPING OR HURTING ME? SO ONCE YOU CAN START BUILDING THAT
00:43:55CONFIDENCE IN AN OPERATOR CAN GO, IS IT PRODUCING THE RESULT THAT I THOUGHT IT WOULD PRODUCE
00:43:58IF IT DIDN'T? WHY DO I TRUST
00:44:00IT? AND IF I DON'T TRUST IT, WHAT DO I DO ABOUT IT? THOSE ARE THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT I
00:44:04THINK WE NEED TO START GETTING INTO THE HABIT PATTERN OF
00:44:08THINKING DIFFERENTLY ABOUT
00:44:09WARFARE WITH AI AND AUTONOMY.
00:44:14>> THANK YOU, GENERAL CARTWRIGHT. ARE THERE LESSONS
00:44:15FROM HISTORY WE CAN LOOK TO WHEN
00:44:18THE ARMED FORCES HAD TO ADOPT NEW TECHNOLOGY? AI IS DIFFERENT,
00:44:21BUT THERE MIGHT BE SOME SIMILARITIES. WE THINK OF HOW
00:44:25THE SERVICES HAD TO REFORM AND
00:44:27ADAPT VERY QUICKLY. I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE RICKOVER MODEL,
00:44:31BUT ARE THERE EXAMPLES YOU THINK WE CAN LOOK AT AS WE THINK ABOUT
00:44:34HOW TO DO THIS RIGHT, WHEN ADDRESSING THESE DOTMLPF REFORMS?
00:44:37>> I THINK TO REALLY UNDERSTAND
00:44:41THE DEPTH TO WHICH THIS CHANGE IS GOING TO REACH INTO THE
00:44:45CLASSIC DOTMLPF IS IN A
00:44:50BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, AS A
00:44:51DEPARTMENT OF WAR UH, BUYING
00:44:55SOMETHING OFF THE SHELF, BUYING
00:45:01SOMETHING, SHRINK WRAP IS NOT GOING TO WORK ANYMORE. BY THE
00:45:04TIME YOU GET IT TO THE SHELF,
00:45:06IT'S OBSOLETE. SO WE'RE MOVING
00:45:09OFF OF A, OF A KIND OF A TYPICAL
00:45:12COMMERCIAL MODEL OF I BUILD, YOU
00:45:14BUY TO A SERVICE MODEL IN THE,
00:45:19THE FINANCE SIDE OF THE EQUATION IS NOT SET UP FOR THAT. THE
00:45:23CONTRACTING SIDE OF THE EQUATION IS NOT SET UP FOR THAT. SO THERE ARE A LOT OF HURDLES THAT WE
00:45:27HAVE TO GO THROUGH. IT'S NOT THAT WE CAN'T DO IT. IT'S NOT EVEN THAT THE AUTHORITIES
00:45:30AREN'T THERE. IT'S JUST NOT THE
00:45:32WAY WE'VE DONE IT. OKAY. UM,
00:45:35BUT A SERVICE MODEL IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE MORE CLOSELY ALIGNED
00:45:39TO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO, YOU KNOW,
00:45:42AS, AS, UH, AS A FIELDING MOVE
00:45:48AND AS A OPERATING MOVE IN THIS.
00:45:48AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE
00:45:52THE ABILITY TO MAKE MODIFICATIONS AT THE EDGE, IN PARTICULAR, UM, AT A VERY HIGH
00:45:55RATE. AND THAT'S GOING TO BE A DIFFERENT SERVICE MODEL THAN
00:45:59WHAT WE HAVE TODAY. THE
00:46:02COMBATANT COMMANDS ARE REALLY NOT, THEY'RE GEARING UP FOR IT,
00:46:06BUT THEY WERE NEVER DESIGNED FOR
00:46:07IT, QUITE FRANKLY. UM, AND SO
00:46:12THAT'S GOING TO BE A BIG CHANGE. WHEN YOU LOOK BACK IN HISTORY. UM, I WON'T GO BACK
00:46:14TOO FAR, BUT, UM, PELOPONNESIAN
00:46:17WAR NO. UM UH, WHEN YOU LOOK AT
00:46:20WHAT WE DID ON THE NUCLEAR SIDE,
00:46:23BASICALLY THE EISENHOWER MODEL
00:46:25OF TAKE ALL OF THESE PIECES
00:46:27BEFORE WE EVER BUILD THEM AND
00:46:29PUT THEM IN WAYS IN WHICH THE
00:46:32FLOW OF KNOWLEDGE AND THE FLOW OF CAPABILITY CANNOT BE
00:46:35INTERRUPTED. IF YOU TAKE ANY ONE
00:46:38OF THOSE PIECES OUT, OKAY, KIND
00:46:43OF A FAIL SAFE MENTALITY. UM, THAT WAS, THAT WAS OKAY. AT THE
00:46:46TIME. THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT,
00:46:49UM, INTELLECTUAL KNOWLEDGE AS IT
00:46:50GROWS IN, IN THE GENERAL
00:46:54POPULATION, BASICALLY OVERRODE ALL OF THAT AND ALL THE THINGS THAT WE MADE SECRET WERE
00:46:58BASICALLY OUT AVAILABLE IN A TEXTBOOK. UM, AND SO HOW DO YOU
00:47:02START TO THINK ABOUT THE PROBLEM
00:47:04DIFFERENTLY? THE NEXT REAL BIG
00:47:06ACTIVITY, AT LEAST FOR, FOR MY TIME WAS, UM, BRILLIANT PEBBLES.
00:47:10YOU KNOW, THE IDEA THAT WE WERE
00:47:14GOING TO GO TO SPACE AND WE WERE GOING TO BASICALLY CREATE A SYSTEM THAT WOULD PROTECT THE
00:47:18WORLD. OKAY. IN SOME WAY. AND,
00:47:22AND IN THIS, WE WENT TECHNOLOGY
00:47:23FIRST, PEOPLE, SECOND. AND, AND
00:47:27IT KIND OF FELL IN ON ITSELF. OKAY, NOT THAT IT WAS BAD, NOT
00:47:31THAT THERE WAS ANY EVIL, YOU KNOW, INTENT OR ANY OF THAT KIND
00:47:34OF STUFF. IT JUST COULDN'T GET TRACTION AT THE TIME, FINANCIAL
00:47:37REASONS, ET CETERA.. THEY ALL
00:47:41PLAYED MOVE FORWARD TO, UM,
00:47:44CYBER AND SPACE. OKAY, TWO MORE
00:47:47RECENT EXAMPLES. UM, IN CYBER,
00:47:51WE STARTED FIRST WITH THE PEOPLE. UM, THE IDEA BEHIND THE
00:47:55ORGANIZATIONAL CONSTRUCT WAS AN IDEA THAT SAID, UM, I NEED
00:47:59MATHEMATICIANS AND I NEED
00:48:01CRYPTOLOGY. AND THOSE TWO SKILLS
00:48:04ARE NUMBER ONE, AND I'M GOING TO GO FIND THEM. WHERE ARE THE
00:48:07SCHOOL HOUSES? WELL, THE SCHOOL
00:48:09HOUSES EXISTED IN, IN THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY AND IN
00:48:12OTHER PLACES LIKE THAT, BUT THEY WERE GRADUATING MAYBE 20 OR 30
00:48:15PEOPLE A YEAR. AND THEN IN THE
00:48:17FIRST YEAR, WE WENT FROM 20 TO
00:48:213000. AND AFTER THAT, IT WAS DOUBLED UP AGAIN. UM, TO GET THE
00:48:24UNDERPINNING IN, TO GET THE TRAINING DONE, TO START TO HAVE
00:48:27THE QUESTIONS BE ASKED AND HAVE PEOPLE COMFORTABLE IN THAT
00:48:31ENVIRONMENT. AND IN THAT
00:48:32CONTEXT. AND, AND IT'S NOT
00:48:37PERFECT, BUT IT WORKED THAT WAY.
00:48:38WE STILL ENDED UP WITH SILOS
00:48:42THAT REALLY HAVE HELD THINGS BACK, PARTICULARLY ON THE
00:48:44OFFENSIVE SIDE AND WHATNOT. NOT,
00:48:46NOT, NOT FOR BAD REASONS, JUST
00:48:48THE WAY IT IS IN SPACE. IT WAS,
00:48:53OKAY, I'M OUT THERE TO DISCOVER
00:48:56SCIENCE. OKAY. AND ANYTHING ELSE I'M DOING OUT THERE, YOU DON'T
00:48:59NEED TO KNOW ABOUT. AND THEN IT
00:49:01WAS, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT
00:49:04REALLY MOVING FORWARD AT A PACE
00:49:05THAT MAKES SENSE. AND SO WE
00:49:10FOCUSED IN ON A PARTICULAR AREA, WHICH WAS ACCESS TO SPACE AND
00:49:13THE ABILITY TO GET THERE AND TO GO FIND THE TECHNOLOGY TO DO IT.
00:49:15AND WE HAD TO RELY ON THE
00:49:18COMMERCIAL SECTOR TO, TO GET
00:49:21PAST THE RISK OF THE WAY WE HAD
00:49:23DONE IT IN SCIENCE AND IN DISCOVERY. UM, AND YOU CAN SEE
00:49:27THAT HAPPENING. AND NOW AS WE
00:49:29LOOK AT DIFFERENT KINDS OF
00:49:32CONSTELLATIONS, SWARMS OF CONSTELLATIONS, DIFFERENT KINDS OF ENERGY ACTIVITIES, ET
00:49:35CETERA., IT'S DIFFERENT. AND I
00:49:37THINK KIND OF GOING BACK TO, TO
00:49:41THE EARLIER POINT WHERE I'M MOST UNCOMFORTABLE RIGHT NOW, AND WHAT I THINK IS THE LONG
00:49:45POLE HERE IS WE DON'T HAVE THE ENERGY, WE DON'T HAVE THE
00:49:49ENERGY. FOR A WHILE, IT WAS CHIPS. NOW IT'S ENERGY. AND,
00:49:53UM, I, I SEE THE SERVICES
00:49:57BUILDING PROGRAMS WITH MICROREACTORS AND WHATNOT. AND
00:50:00I'M THINKING, OKAY, THAT WON'T
00:50:01EVEN RUN ONE DATA CENTER. HOW
00:50:04ARE WE GOING TO MAKE THAT
00:50:07TRANSITION? AND WHEN WILL WE PROBABLY MOVE FROM THIS? IS
00:50:10INFRASTRUCTURE TO THIS IS A WAR
00:50:12FIGHTING CAPABILITY. AND TO BE
00:50:17VIEWED AS A WAR FIGHTING CAPABILITY, TO BE FIELDED AS A
00:50:19WAR FIGHTING CAPABILITY, TO HAVE
00:50:25THE RESILIENCE AND THE ASSUREDNESS THAT GENERAL WAS
00:50:27TALKING ABOUT SUCH THAT WE KNOW THAT JUST BECAUSE THERE'S A
00:50:31BROWNOUT IN THE TOWN, DOESN'T MEAN MY BASE HAS TO BROWN OUT
00:50:34TO, I'VE GOT TO HAVE ENOUGH PROTECTION THERE TO BE ABLE TO
00:50:37RUN IT BOTH IN THE, IN, IN THE,
00:50:42UM, FACILITY, BUT ALSO FORWARD
00:50:44AND DEPLOYED IN MOBILE. AND THAT
00:50:47ENERGY EQUATION RIGHT NOW IS THE LONG POLE. IT'S JUST TAKING SO
00:50:50LONG TO GET THERE. WE GAVE UP
00:50:54ALL OF OUR BASE POWER AND WENT TO THE GRID. AND NOW WE'RE
00:50:56TRYING TO BUILD IT BACK. AND
00:50:59IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A HARD FIGHT RIGHT NOW, A DIFFICULT ONE. AND
00:51:02THE POWER THAT WE NEED IS DRAMATICALLY GREATER THAN
00:51:06ANYTHING WE'VE EVER HAD BEFORE. >> RIGHT.
00:51:11>> YOU JUMPED TO MY LAST QUESTION, SIR. SO I'M GONNA YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO THINK OF SOMETHING ELSE BESIDES POWER.
00:51:14WHEN WE GET TO THE END. UH. OH,
00:51:15AND LET ME, LET ME SKIP AHEAD
00:51:20HERE TO THE LOOKING AT THE TIME TO, TO OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.
00:51:23RIGHT WHAT CAN YOU GIVE A SENSE
00:51:26OF WHAT SOME OF THE KEY
00:51:30RECOMMENDATIONS ARE, WHY WE LANDED ON THEM, AND HOW THAT'S GOING TO HELP US GET FROM HERE TO WHERE WE NEED TO BE.
00:51:33>> YEAH. SO THERE ARE FOUR KIND OF BROAD BUCKETS OF
00:51:37RECOMMENDATIONS. THE FIRST ARE
00:51:40RELATED TO, YOU KNOW, AN ISSUE THAT YOU RAISED EARLIER, JOE.
00:51:42AND GENERAL CARTWRIGHT HAS MENTIONED. BUT THIS NOTION OF
00:51:46MAPPING AUTHORITIES, RIGHT?
00:51:48MAPPING AUTHORITIES OVER DATA
00:51:50GOVERNANCE, WHO CONTROLS MODEL UPDATES, WHO CONTROLS DEPLOYMENT
00:51:54CHOICES RELATED TO MODELS? HOW
00:51:57ARE WE REPATRIATING DATA? UM,
00:51:58YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO EFFECTIVELY
00:52:02DECIDE AND MAP WHO OWNS THESE
00:52:04AUTHORITIES ACROSS EACH OF THESE AREAS. UM, PARTICULARLY AS WE
00:52:07GET, YOU KNOW, AS WE NEAR THE
00:52:10POSSIBILITY OF SOME KIND OF WAR FIGHTING SCENARIO, THE
00:52:13IMPERATIVE OF DOING THESE THINGS QUICKLY THROUGH WELL-ESTABLISHED CHANNELS AND HAVING THE
00:52:17OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF TEST DECISION MAKING PROCESSES AND
00:52:20TIME IN THE RUN UP IS REALLY
00:52:22CRITICAL HERE. UM, AND SO WE CAN'T AFFORD TO LET THIS GET TO
00:52:25THE POINT WHERE WE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE AUTHORITIES. AND
00:52:29WE'RE ACTUALLY IN A CONFLICT,
00:52:34UM, PARTICULARLY WITH A NEAR-PEER ADVERSARY WHO IS
00:52:38EXPLICITLY TARGETING OUR AI CAPABILITIES ACROSS THE VARIOUS ATTACK SURFACES THAT THEY
00:52:41PRESENT. UM, THE OTHER BUCKETS OF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE OFFER
00:52:44IN THE PAPER ARE BROADLY RELATED
00:52:48TO THIS QUESTION OF ADOPTION, RIGHT? AND EFFECTIVELY, UM, CALCULATING USER TRUST IN THE
00:52:52SYSTEM SO THAT THEY CAN BE DEPLOYED IN A WAY THAT'S
00:52:55EFFECTIVE. SO, UM, THE FIRST IS EXPANDING, EXPANDING THIS IDEA
00:52:59OF ITERATIVE DEVELOPMENT. I MENTIONED SWARM FORGE, THUNDER
00:53:02FORGE EARLIER, BUT GETTING MORE OPERATORS INVOLVED WITH HELPING
00:53:05TO DEVELOP THESE SYSTEMS, PROVIDING FEEDBACK EARLY,
00:53:09CONTINUOUSLY THROUGHOUT THE LIFECYCLE. UM, THIS IS REALLY CRITICAL SO THAT WHEN WE GET TO
00:53:12THIS POINT WHERE, YOU KNOW,
00:53:15OPERATORS ARE IN THE FIELD AND THEY HAVE TO TAKE A TECHNOLOGY
00:53:19INTO THE BATTLE SPACE, UM, THEY ARE NOT STUCK WITH SOMETHING
00:53:22THAT DOESN'T MEET THEIR NEEDS OR DOESN'T EFFECTIVELY INDICATE
00:53:25WHEN IT'S OUT OF AREA, RIGHT?
00:53:26OR WHEN IT'S NOT FUNCTIONING
00:53:30ACCORDING TO ITS PROPER SYSTEM.
00:53:31UM, I THINK THE OTHER PIECE IS
00:53:35STARTING TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE CAN USE, UH, CONTRACTING
00:53:38MECHANISMS TO GET CONTRACTORS
00:53:41INTO THE FIELD, HELPING WARFIGHTERS CONTINUE TO ITERATE
00:53:45OUT THERE, BUT ALSO THINKING THROUGH LIKE INCORPORATING
00:53:48OPERATIONAL TESTING ELEMENTS OUT THERE. I KNOW I'VE MENTIONED
00:53:50THAT A COUPLE OF TIMES, BUT CONTINUING TO TEST AI SYSTEMS
00:53:54AFTER THEY'RE DEPLOYED IS A KEY DIFFERENTIATOR OF AI SYSTEMS
00:53:58COMPARED TO OTHER TRADITIONAL OPERATIONAL TESTING SYSTEMS,
00:54:01RIGHT? AI MODELS CONTINUOUSLY UPDATED, WORKING OFF OF NEW
00:54:04DATA, OFTEN DEPLOYED INTO
00:54:06DIFFERENT CONTEXTS. UM, OPERATIONAL TEST AND EVALUATION
00:54:10NEEDS TO CONTINUE TO HAPPEN IN THE FIELD. UH, EVEN AS THESE
00:54:12SYSTEMS ARE DEPLOYED. WE HAVE GREAT POLICY FRAMEWORKS IN PLACE
00:54:15FOR IT, BUT WE NEED TO START TO IMPLEMENT THEM. AND THEN
00:54:18FINALLY, I THINK WE'VE TOUCHED ON IT A COUPLE TIMES EARLIER,
00:54:21BUT TRAINING, GETTING FAMILIARITY THROUGH HANDS ON
00:54:25EXERCISES, UM, CHANGING TTPS TO REFLECT THE WAY THAT WE'RE
00:54:29ACTUALLY USING THE TECHNOLOGY IN THOSE EXERCISES AND TRAINING,
00:54:33UH, IS REALLY IMPERATIVE. AND I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, THE
00:54:35SERVICES ARE WORKING TO
00:54:37INCORPORATE, UH, CHANGES TO
00:54:41PROFESSIONAL MILITARY EDUCATION THAT ALSO INCORPORATES GREATER
00:54:43AWARENESS OF AI RISKS FROM AUTOMATION BIAS, WHICH WE'VE
00:54:47TALKED A LITTLE BIT AROUND. BUT
00:54:48THIS IDEA THAT HUMANS TEND TO
00:54:52DEFAULT TO DECISION MAKING CAPABILITIES PRESENTED BY
00:54:55MACHINES, UM, IT'S REALLY PERNICIOUS CHALLENGE, RIGHT? I
00:54:59THINK WE'VE ENCOUNTERED IT. IF YOU'RE DRIVING AND YOU TRUST YOUR GPS AND TAKE A WRONG TURN,
00:55:02UM, THAT IS AUTOMATION BIAS. AND
00:55:05I THINK WHEN THE STAKES ARE SO MUCH HIGHER IN THESE DIGITAL
00:55:08ENVIRONMENTS, UM, MAKING PARTICULARLY COMMANDERS WHO ARE
00:55:11GOING TO BE AT THE EDGE, AWARE
00:55:14OF THE DOWNSIDE RISK OF AUTOMATION BIAS IS REALLY IMPERATIVE. SO, UM, HAVE SOME
00:55:18MORE SPECIFIC BULLETS IN THE REPORT, ENCOURAGE YOU ALL TO
00:55:21READ IT, BUT REALLY DRIVING TOWARDS THESE, THESE IDEAS OF
00:55:25HOW CAN WE DRIVE DEVELOPMENT IN A WAY THAT'S MOST EFFECTIVE FOR
00:55:29WAR AND GET ADOPTION IN A WAY THAT HELPS ADOPTION SCALE
00:55:33THROUGHOUT THE DEPARTMENT AND ACROSS THE SERVICES. >> THANKS, JOHN.
00:55:36>> I MEAN, FINAL QUESTION, FINAL THREE MINUTES HERE. SO A LITTLE
00:55:39BIT MORE OF A RAPID FIRE, BUT
00:55:42WHAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MILITARY
00:55:44AI, THERE'S CONCERNS, THERE'S
00:55:46OPTIMISM, THERE'S PESSIMISM. SO IN ALL OF YOUR PERSPECTIVES IN
00:55:50GENERAL, CARTER, WE'LL START WITH YOU AND THEN GO DOWN THE
00:55:52LINE. WHAT ARE YOU MOST
00:55:55OPTIMISTIC ABOUT WHEN YOU THINK
00:55:57OF MILITARY AI? AND WHAT ARE YOU
00:56:01MOST CONCERNED ABOUT? >> UM, I'M THE OPTIMISTIC SIDE.
00:56:03THE STEM GENERATION IS RIGHT AT
00:56:06THE TOP OF MY LIST. UM, THAT
00:56:09THIS THING WILL, THIS ACTIVITY THAT WE'RE DOING WILL, IN THE
00:56:11END, BE EDGE CENTRIC. UM, IN
00:56:14OTHER WORDS, IT'S GOING TO BE OUT IN THE WARFIGHTERS HANDS.
00:56:17IT'S NOT GOING TO BE, UM, UH,
00:56:20SOMETHING THAT ONLY EXISTS AT A
00:56:24HEADQUARTERS. OKAY. UM, THE LEVERAGE IS GOING TO BE IN THAT BEING AT THE EDGE. AND THEN
00:56:28WITHIN THE NEXT 2 OR 3 YEARS,
00:56:30SEEING THE COMMS AT GLOBAL
00:56:33SCALE, BEING PHONE AND TALK TO
00:56:35ANYBODY ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH
00:56:38FROM ANY PLACE. THAT KIND OF
00:56:44CALM BECAUSE OF SPACEX IS, IS
00:56:46CERTAINLY NEXT. AND THEN RIGHT
00:56:54AFTER THAT WILL BE, I CAN DO ALL OF THAT, AND I CAN, AND I CAN GET IT COMPUTE. UM, I THINK THOSE THINGS WILL BE THE BIG
00:56:58CHANGES OUT THERE. IF I'M TO
00:57:03WORRY. IT'S POWER. IT'S, IT'S
00:57:08THE ENERGY SIDE OF THE EQUATION.
00:57:10UM, AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THIS. BECAUSE RIGHT NOW
00:57:14THERE IS NO CHAMPION IN THE DEPARTMENT OF WAR OTHER THAN
00:57:18THE, THE LEADERSHIP, WHICH
00:57:20DOESN'T MAKE THE SERVICES
00:57:25NECESSARILY BEHAVE THE SAME WAY,
00:57:26BUT THERE'S NOBODY OUT THERE. I
00:57:32THINK IF I'M A SERVICE CHIEF OR A SERVICE J8, HOW DO I HOW DO I AVOID PAYING THIS BILL? OKAY. AND SO WE HAVE TO FIND A
00:57:35DIFFERENT WAY TO, TO BRING THAT
00:57:37ENERGY TO BEAR IN AND HAVE IT BE
00:57:43ASSURED AND RESILIENT. UM, SO THAT WHEN SOMEBODY ELSE IS GRAYED OUT OR SOMEBODY CUTS A
00:57:45CABLE OR ANYTHING THAT WE'VE GOT SOVEREIGN CAPABILITY. ISLANDED
00:57:48ON FEDERAL LAND, SO TO SPEAK.
00:57:52>> GENERAL HARRIS. >> SO WHAT AM I OPTIMISTIC ABOUT
00:57:55THAT? THE DEPARTMENT OF WAR HAS THIS IN THEIR GUN SIGHT, AND THEY'RE AGGRESSIVELY PURSUING
00:57:59IT. UH, THERE'S A CULTURAL PIECE OF THIS THAT OFTENTIMES WE TALK ABOUT THE VALLEY OF DEATH. I WOULD SAY THAT THIS IS ONE OF
00:58:03THOSE WHERE WHEN YOU HAVE EVERYBODY LINED UP CLAPPING AND CHEERING AND AGGRESSIVELY GOING AFTER AI IS A GOOD THING. THAT'S ALSO THE OTHER SIDE THAT
00:58:06I WORRY ABOUT. IT'S ALL THRUST,
00:58:08NO VECTOR. I COME FROM A
00:58:11COMMUNITY OF US SPECIAL
00:58:15OPERATIONS COMMAND, AND THERE IS A SOFT TRUTH OUT THERE THAT SAYS
00:58:17HUMANS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN
00:58:19HARDWARE. SO I THINK THERE IS AN
00:58:22HR ASPECT OF THIS THAT WE NEED TO REALLY CONSIDER. AND IT'S NOT JUST THROUGH OUR JUNIOR ENLISTED AND JUNIOR OFFICERS, IT'S HOW
00:58:26DO YOU EDUCATE AI, UNDERSTANDING
00:58:28AND LEARNING ACROSS ALL LEVELS,
00:58:31ACROSS ALL FORCES THAT ARE OUT THERE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING
00:58:34WITH IT? THE AIR FORCE HAS INVESTED INTO MIT WITH THE AI
00:58:39ACCELERATOR PROGRAM, AND THEN
00:58:41STANFORD AT STANFORD STUDIOS. BUT IT'S NOT AT A SCALE WHERE WE NEED TO BE DOING THIS. AND I
00:58:44WOULD ALSO SAY THAT IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT PME, AND OWEN BROUGHT
00:58:48UP A GREAT POINT ON THIS, I'LL BE THE FIRST ONE IN LINE, BY THE WAY, FOR YOUR BOOK, BECAUSE ALL
00:58:52THOSE THINGS YOU HIT ON WERE PERFECT. BUT IT'S, IT'S, YOU
00:58:54DON'T JUST TEACH DATA SCIENCE AND CALL THAT AI. THERE IS A
00:58:57WHOLE NEW WAY OF LEARNING AND APPROACHING AI. I THINK YOU HAVE
00:59:00TO PRACTICE WITH IT. OVER TO OWEN. >> OWEN.
00:59:04>> YEAH, I THINK ON THE OPTIMISTIC SIDE, I ECHO THOSE
00:59:05POINTS. RIGHT. AND I GUESS
00:59:08DRILLING DOWN, THERE ARE CENTERS OF EXCELLENCE WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT AND ACROSS THE
00:59:12SERVICES THAT ARE DOING REALLY WELL AT THINKING THROUGH THESE
00:59:15TOUGH PROBLEMS, PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO, I'M GOING TO
00:59:17HIT IT AGAIN, WARFIGHTER TRUST
00:59:19IN THESE SYSTEMS, RIGHT? UM, WE
00:59:23HAVE HAD LONG STANDING EFFORTS BY DOD THAT PREDATE BOTH THE
00:59:27CURRENT AND THE LAST ADMINISTRATION, FOCUSED ON SOME OF THESE REALLY PERNICIOUS
00:59:30CHALLENGES. UM, AND I THINK THE
00:59:33GREATER AWARENESS OF THE ISSUES, UM, IS REALLY ENCOURAGING
00:59:37BECAUSE IT MEANS WE CAN TRY TO FIND SOLUTIONS. THAT SAID, I
00:59:40THINK, YOU KNOW, THE CHALLENGE BECOMES IF WE GET INTO A STATE
00:59:44WHERE WE ARE FACING DOWN A CONFLICT WITH A NEAR-PEER, CAN
00:59:47WE GET THE PRIORITIES ACHIEVED IN TIME TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE
00:59:50ADOPTING THIS TECHNOLOGY
00:59:52RESPONSIBLY FOR THAT CONFLICT?
00:59:55UM, I'M NOT PESSIMISTIC ABOUT IT, BUT I REALLY HOPE IT GETS US
00:59:59IN GEAR. THANK YOU.
01:00:04>> WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO TURN TO THE AUDIENCE FIRST TO SEE IF
01:00:07THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS. UH, AND
01:00:09REMINDER THAT QUESTIONS END IN A QUESTION MARK. AND THEN
01:00:13OTHERWISE I WILL GO ONLINE. PLEASE AND PLEASE ANNOUNCE
01:00:14YOURSELF AS YOU ASK NAME AND
01:00:19WHERE YOUR, YOUR AFFILIATION
01:00:23>> UH, HELLO, MY NAME IS PETER
01:00:24CRISPIN. UH, MY QUESTION IS, UM,
01:00:27I'VE SEEN WALKING AROUND, SEEING THE METRO, LOTS OF ADS
01:00:31FOR AI, MILITARY COMPANIES. AND
01:00:33MY QUESTION IS, UH, IS THERE A
01:00:36CONCERN WITH THAT, WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE OF, YOU
01:00:39KNOW, IF THESE COMPANIES AREN'T WELL KNOWN, OR AT LEAST MAYBE NOT TO ME, MAYBE THEY'RE WELL
01:00:42KNOWN TO OTHER PEOPLE, BUT, UM, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IS THERE SORT
01:00:45OF VETTING THERE FOR PROCUREMENT CONTRACTS THAT THESE COMPANIES
01:00:47ARE GOING TO BE THE RIGHT COMPANIES TO PARTNER WITH THE
01:00:51GOVERNMENT FOR AI AND MILITARY USE?
01:00:55>> SOMETHING GENERAL QUESTION OF
01:00:58COMPANIES TO WORK WITH. VALIDITY OF THESE FIRMS. AND YEAH.
01:01:02>> I MEAN, PART THE, THE PIECES
01:01:06THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT A LITTLE BIT, WHICH ARE THE ORGANIZATIONAL CONSTRUCTS AND
01:01:10PUTTING THE RIGHT GUARDRAILS IN
01:01:13PLACE IN, IN THE RICKOVER
01:01:15EXAMPLE AND WHATNOT. THAT WAS
01:01:19THE FIRST THING. GET CERTIFICATIONS SO THAT PEOPLE
01:01:23WHO ACTUALLY WORK IN THESE PLACES AND IN THE GOVERNMENT ARE
01:01:26CERTIFIED TO DO SO, AND THAT
01:01:29THOSE CERTIFICATIONS MATCH UP WITH ACTUAL SKILLS, UM, IN THE
01:01:32WORKFORCE AND THE WORK BREAKDOWN STRUCTURES AND WHATNOT. AND THEN
01:01:36TO START TO THINK ABOUT, UM,
01:01:40CHANGING THOSE AS, AS THERE IS
01:01:44PROOF THAT THE WAY THEY ARE STRUCTURED RIGHT NOW IS NOT
01:01:48COVERING THE WATERFRONT, SO TO SPEAK. AND THAT CAN HAPPEN A LOT
01:01:51WITH NEW TECHNOLOGIES. BUT I
01:01:53THINK THE DEPARTMENT AND NORMAL ACTIVITIES SAY, DON'T THROW OUT
01:01:57THE BABY FIRST. START WITH SOMETHING YOU UNDERSTAND AND IS
01:02:01DOCUMENTED, AND THEN FOLLOW THAT UNTIL IT JUST DOESN'T WORK. AND
01:02:04THEN YOU HAVE REASONABLE
01:02:07EVIDENCE AND DATA TO BACK UP A CHANGE. BUT GETTING THAT AT THE
01:02:10FRONT END IS A LOT OF WHAT IS
01:02:15CONSIDERED CRITICAL. AND THEN THERE WERE PROGRAMS,
01:02:17PARTICULARLY IN THE, UM,
01:02:20STRATEGIC NUCLEAR SIDE OF THE EQUATION THAT I THINK PROBABLY
01:02:22ARE GOING TO END UP CARRYING
01:02:26OVER PERSONAL RELIABILITY PROGRAMS. THEY WERE CALLED, BUT BASICALLY UNDERSTANDING THE
01:02:30STRESSES THAT INDIVIDUALS ARE UNDER ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS,
01:02:33WHETHER THEY BE MEDICAL OR, OR
01:02:37SOCIAL OR WHATEVER. BUT HAVING A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF YOUR
01:02:40WORKFORCE AT A DEPTH THAT HERETOFORE IS PROBABLY NOT BEEN
01:02:43THERE, IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE
01:02:46THE BE PART OF WHAT HAPPENS IN
01:02:49THIS AREA, AT LEAST A PART OF THE WORKFORCE, AND TO PART OF
01:02:52THE CIVILIAN SIDE OF THE
01:02:57WORKFORCE. >> PLEASE, SIR, GO AHEAD. NAME, AFFILIATION, PLEASE >> THANK YOU.
01:03:01>> HI, MY NAME IS ROBERT MCDONALD. I'M FROM A NEW
01:03:04POLICY. ARE THERE CONCERNS THAT WE'VE SEEN STUDIES OF AI THAT
01:03:08HAVE REDUCED THE CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS OF MANY PEOPLE
01:03:10WHO ARE USING THEM ACROSS MULTIPLE DEMOGRAPHICS, THAT THE
01:03:14INTRODUCTION OF AI INTO THE ARMED SERVICES COULD REDUCE THE CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS OF,
01:03:17SAY, OPERATORS WHO ARE USING IT.
01:03:21THAT COULD REALLY DECREASE THE
01:03:22INITIATIVE OF SOLDIERS ON THE
01:03:26BATTLEFIELD TO SEPARATE THEMSELVES FROM AI. WE'VE SEEN INSTANCES, OF COURSE, OF AI USE
01:03:28IN GAZA THAT HAVE RESULTED IN SIGNIFICANT CIVILIAN CASUALTY
01:03:32EVENTS. IS THIS SOMETHING WE ARE
01:03:33CONCERNED ABOUT AS WE SEEK TO
01:03:36INTEGRATE AI WITHIN THE US MILITARY AND OUR SERVICES MEMBERS CRITICAL THINKING ABILITY?
01:03:40>> I CAN TELL YOU FROM THE JOB THAT I HAD LAST. YES, THAT IS
01:03:42ABSOLUTELY ON OUR MIND. AND. AND I THINK BEING OPTIMISTIC ABOUT
01:03:47IT, WE ALWAYS LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO USE YOUR POWERS FOR GOOD, NOT EVIL. AND YOU JUMP
01:03:50BACK IN AND YOU SAY, WHAT, WHAT TIME WILL THIS AFFORD ME? IF YOU
01:03:54CAN AUTOMATE OR USE AI IN YOUR
01:03:57MDMP OR YOUR MILITARY DECISION MAKING PROCESS, THAT ALLOWS YOU TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM A
01:04:01LITTLE BIT BETTER, I THINK WE IMMEDIATELY GRAVITATE TO THIS
01:04:05OPTIMISTIC SOLUTION ABOUT WHAT IT'S GOING TO DO, AND HOW MUCH TIME IT'S GOING TO GIVE US
01:04:08BACK. BUT YET, WITH ALMOST ALL OF THE PROGRAMS, AT LEAST SERVICE PROGRAMS THAT I HAVE
01:04:12SEEN, AND THERE'S PROBABLY PLENTY IN HERE THAT CAN EITHER ATTEST TO THIS OR DEBUNK MY
01:04:16IDEA. BUT THOSE THOSE COST SAVINGS OR COST AVOIDANCES NEVER
01:04:20REALLY MANIFEST ITSELF. WE ALWAYS SEEM TO KEEP THE SAME AMOUNT OF PEOPLE. WE JUST SHIFT
01:04:23THEM AROUND TO SOMEWHERE ELSE. THAT IS EITHER UNDERSERVED, UNDERUTILIZED, OR WE HAVE A
01:04:27GREATER NEED FOR. SO THERE'S A SHIFTING OF BURDEN THAT COMES
01:04:31WITH THE ONBOARDING OF SOMETHING LIKE AI. NOW, WHERE DO WE GO WITH IT? AND WHAT DO WE LOSE?
01:04:35AND DO WE LOSE ATROPHY OR
01:04:37SKILLS? WITH THIS? I, AGAIN, ON
01:04:40THE OPTIMISTIC POINT OF VIEW, WHEN I START LOOKING AT THE HIGH END FIGHTS AND THE THINGS THAT
01:04:44WE NEED TO TRAIN TO, THE FIRST THING I WANT TO DO WHEN I FLY IS
01:04:47NOT TELEGRAPH. WHAT TYPES OF THINGS THAT I'M FLYING UP AGAINST THAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE
01:04:51WATCHING. BUT IF YOU CAN DO THIS IN A SYNTHETIC ENVIRONMENT WHERE
01:04:55YOU'RE USING AI TO DO THIS, YOU JUST SEE A PLANE THAT'S UP THERE FLYING, DOING A COUPLE
01:04:59MANEUVERS, BUT YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THE SCENARIO IS. IT'S BEHIND THE SCENES THAT'S
01:05:03DRIVING THE PILOT TO BE ABLE TO DO THOSE, OR THE TANK COMMANDER ON THE GROUND TO MAKE THE
01:05:06MANEUVERS THAT THEY'RE DOING. THIS IS, AGAIN, WHERE AI CAN
01:05:09START REALLY GIVING YOU A
01:05:11COMPETITIVE EDGE ABOUT A DEEPER
01:05:14UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT MAY BE FACING YOU IN THE NEXT FIGHT. SO
01:05:17I STILL THINK THAT WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT, WE HAVE THIS
01:05:19OPTIMISTIC VIEW OF IT. BUT AGAIN, JUST THE FACT THAT
01:05:23CULTURALLY, WE'VE BROUGHT OURSELVES TO, OH MY GOSH, I
01:05:26THINK WE NEED THIS IS, IS HEROICS. IN MY PART. I WOULD
01:05:29LIKE TO SEE THEM CONTINUE THIS. AND THEN AS WE START TO
01:05:33UNDERSTAND THIS AND LEARN A LITTLE BIT MORE, IT GOES BACK TO WHAT GENERAL CARTWRIGHT SAID.
01:05:36AND THAT IS, THERE IS RISK, AND YOU NEED SOMEBODY DELIBERATELY
01:05:39RED TEAMING THIS AND THINKING
01:05:40ABOUT THE RISKS TO BAKE THAT BACK IN TO HOW DO WE THINK ABOUT
01:05:45THE FUTURE PLATFORMS THAT WE
01:05:45ONBOARD OR WHERE WE ACTUALLY USE
01:05:49AI? >> I BELIEVE WE HAD A QUESTION
01:05:51IN THE BACK. YES, MA'AM. PLEASE
01:05:57>> THANK YOU. >> TRACY BRADY, CURIOUS. UH,
01:05:58THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY.
01:06:01GIVEN THE DISCUSSION AROUND THE
01:06:04IMPORTANCE OF SANDBOX AND TRYING OUT THE DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES,
01:06:08HOW DO YOU ALL FEEL ABOUT
01:06:10GENERAL AND I MIGHT NOT BE PRONOUNCING THIS CORRECTLY, BUT
01:06:13THE NAVY'S DECISION TO RECALL
01:06:17THE DRONE BATTALION FROM
01:06:18GERMANY, ONCE THEY FINISHED
01:06:22THEIR LAST EXERCISE
01:06:27>> SO. >> WITH, UH, I'LL JUST START BY SAYING THE, I THINK WITH DRONES,
01:06:31IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. I THINK PEOPLE ARE A LITTLE BIT
01:06:34LIQUORED UP ON WHAT DRONES ARE DOING FOR US RIGHT NOW. WHEN MY
01:06:37OWN PERSONAL BELIEF IS, WHAT DID THE DRONES PROVIDE? WHAT EFFECT
01:06:40ARE THEY PROVIDING? I THINK DRONES, ACCORDING TO THE
01:06:42PRINCIPLE OF WAR, IT'S MASS. IT'S AFFORDABLE MASS THAT
01:06:46UKRAINE IS ABLE TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO PRODUCE. IT'S ELECTRONIC
01:06:49WARFARE. IT'S SENSING, IT'S SMALL KINETIC EFFECTS. IT STILL
01:06:53GOES BACK TO THE SAME PRINCIPLES OF WAR. BRINGING UNITS LIKE THAT BACK HOME TO BE ABLE TO START
01:06:56ADOPTING AND LEARNING. HOW DO WE START DOING DRONES MORE EFFECTIVELY, TO BE ABLE TO
01:07:00PROVIDE THOSE EFFECT? THERE'S A TRAINING VALUE TO THAT, OF
01:07:03BRINGING THAT BACK. THERE'S ALSO A POLITICAL RISK OF THIS, OF
01:07:06WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO OUR PARTNERS AND ALLIES THAT ARE OVER THERE TO BE ABLE TO DO IT?
01:07:10SO, UH, THERE COULD BE A WIN-WIN. IT'S, IT'S BEEN FOUR
01:07:13MONTHS SINCE I'VE BEEN BACK IN THE PENTAGON TO BE ABLE TO, TO
01:07:15LOOK AT ANYTHING AND TO SEE WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENES. BUT I THINK WHAT YOU
01:07:19NEED TO DO IS YOU NEED TO EDUCATE YOUR FORCE. YOU NEED TO
01:07:22TRAIN YOUR FORCE FIRST ON SOME OF THESE NEW DEVELOPING
01:07:25TECHNOLOGIES AND HOW WE'RE USING AND IMPLEMENTING THEM. AND THEN WHAT DO WE DO TO BE ABLE TO
01:07:29START, YOU KNOW, EXPANDING THE ECOSYSTEM INTO THE ALLIES AND
01:07:33PARTNERS >> I BELIEVE IN THE FRONT ROW
01:07:35HERE. YEAH.
01:07:40>> GOOD. >> HI, MY NAME IS AVA WHALEN. I'M A STUDENT AT THE CITADEL
01:07:43MILITARY COLLEGE OF SOUTH CAROLINA. UM, MY QUESTION IS, DO
01:07:46YOU THINK THAT THERE'S A HIGHER
01:07:50RISK VERSUS REWARD WHEN IT COMES TO THE IMPLEMENTATION OF AI IN
01:07:53MILITARY OPERATIONS, AND IT POSSIBLY EVOLVING INTO GAINING
01:07:56ITS OWN LEADERSHIP ROLES IN
01:08:02CERTAIN DEPARTMENTS? >> YEAH, I'M HAPPY TO TALK ABOUT THAT. UM, I THINK WE'VE
01:08:05TOUCHED SEVERAL TIMES THROUGHOUT THE DISCUSSION ON THIS IDEA OF
01:08:08LIKE, CALIBRATED TRUST AND KIND OF RIGHT SIZING. I THINK PART OF
01:08:12TO THE, AN EARLIER QUESTION THAT
01:08:14WAS ASKED THIS KIND OF TRAINING AND PROFESSIONAL MILITARY
01:08:19EDUCATION ASPECT IS MAKING SURE
01:08:19THAT WE ARE NOT HAVING KIND OF
01:08:23SKILLS DECLINE AS WE ADOPT DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS OF AI
01:08:26THROUGHOUT THE MILITARY DECISION MAKING PROCESS IN PARTICULAR.
01:08:30RIGHT. SO, UM, I THINK TO YOUR
01:08:33QUESTION, THE AREAS WHERE I
01:08:36THINK IT'S MOST IMPORTANT TO KIND OF WATCH AGAINST AUTOMATION
01:08:39BIAS, SOME OF THESE FACTORS THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED, WHERE WE'RE
01:08:42AFFORDING AI, GREATER DECISION MAKING AUTHORITIES, IS, IS KIND
01:08:47OF BACK FROM THE TACTICAL EDGE, RIGHT? SO WE'VE SPENT A LOT OF
01:08:50TIME IN THE DISCUSSION TODAY
01:08:56TALKING ABOUT DIGITAL CAPABILITIES THAT ARE, UM, CAPABILITIES FOR DIGITAL
01:08:58ENVIRONMENTS THAT, UH, OFTEN ARE FUNCTIONING IN SITUATIONS WHERE
01:09:02THERE'S TIME PRESSURE. YOU DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO REALLY INTERROGATE WHAT A SYSTEM
01:09:06IS TELLING YOU OR HOW IT'S
01:09:09BEING DEPLOYED. I THINK WHERE IT'S IMPORTANT TO ENSURE THAT
01:09:13OPERATORS HAVE A STRONG HANDLE ON A SYSTEM'S CAPABILITIES, IS
01:09:17THAT THAT KIND OF OPERATIONAL DECISION MAKING LEVEL? SO IF WE
01:09:19THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE THE SYSTEMS THAT HAVE BEEN DEPLOYED,
01:09:22LIKE THE MAVEN SMART SYSTEM,
01:09:23THEY'RE HUGELY VALUABLE FROM A
01:09:27MILITARY PERSPECTIVE. BUT IF A
01:09:29OPERATOR IS JUST DEFAULTING TO
01:09:32ACCEPTING RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE SYSTEM'S MAKING IN TERMS OF
01:09:35TARGETS, STRIKE PACKAGES, ET CETERA., RIGHT. UM, THAT'S WHERE
01:09:39I THINK WE START TO RUN INTO
01:09:40PROBLEMS AND IT BECOMES A QUESTION OF HOW MUCH TIME CAN AI
01:09:44HELP HUMANS? CAN IT AFFORD
01:09:50HUMANS TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS THEMSELVES AND REASON THROUGH WHERE THERE MAY BE ISSUES WITH THE SYSTEM VERSUS, ARE WE IN AN
01:09:54ENVIRONMENT WHERE I'M GOING TO HAVE TO POTENTIALLY ACCEPT
01:09:56SYSTEM RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ARE REALLY ADVANCED RATE? UM, THESE
01:10:00ARE THE KIND OF QUESTIONS I THINK WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER TO ENSURE THAT, YOU KNOW,
01:10:03OUR KIND OF FORCE OF TOMORROW IS
01:10:05REALLY READY TO, TO USE THESE TECHNOLOGIES APPROPRIATELY.
01:10:09>> OKAY, I'M GOING TO GO TO ONE VIRTUAL ONE HERE, WHICH WILL
01:10:12SHOW ON THE BOARD BEHIND US.
01:10:17OKAY, SO THIS IS FROM ABBY RUDOLPH. A COMMON QUESTION IS
01:10:20NOT WHETHER AI PERFORMS, BUT HOW MUCH DECISION AUTHORITY WE'RE
01:10:24WILLING TO DELEGATE TO IT. ALIGNED WITH A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT YOU WERE JUST SAYING, THEIR
01:10:27OWN. WHERE SHOULD THE LINE SIT
01:10:31BETWEEN AI THAT RECOMMENDS AND AI THAT ACTS? AND DOES THAT LINE
01:10:34MOVE IN A DIGITAL ENVIRONMENT?
01:10:37>> I WOULD, I WOULD, I GUESS,
01:10:40FIRST, UM, LOOK AT KIND OF
01:10:45DEFINITIONAL ISSUE HERE OF
01:10:46STANDARD AI IS REALLY SOMETHING
01:10:51THAT TAKES IN INFORMATION AND PROVIDES BACK INFORMATION
01:10:53PROCESSED. IT'S AN ANSWER.
01:10:55WHATEVER PHYSICAL AI IS AI THAT
01:10:57TAKES IN PROCESSES, THE
01:11:00ENVIRONMENT, AND THEN TRANSLATES
01:11:02IT INTO A PHYSICAL ACTIVITY
01:11:06THROUGH ROBOTICS. OKAY. AND SO
01:11:08THE QUESTION KIND OF STRADDLES
01:11:10THAT FENCE A LITTLE BIT IN
01:11:12ASKING, BUT, BUT THERE ARE
01:11:16ACTIVITIES THAT YOU WANT THE AI
01:11:19TO INFORM THE ACTIONS OF THE
01:11:21ROBOTIC SIDE OF THE EQUATION,
01:11:25BUT YOU ALSO WANT THE
01:11:26OPPORTUNITY TO INSERT YOURSELF
01:11:31AS APPROPRIATE ON THE TIMELINES THAT ARE MEANINGFUL. SO, IN OTHER WORDS, BACK TO THE
01:11:35PREVIOUS QUESTION OF DECISION
01:11:37TIME AND DECISION SPEED, THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE ACCESS TO
01:11:40INFORMATION, TO MAKE A DECISION,
01:11:43AND CAN YOU FIT INTO THAT FIRE
01:11:47TIME IN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME? SO YOU WANT TO LOOK AT ALL
01:11:48OF THOSE AND UNDERSTAND THEN THE
01:11:51ACTIVITY THAT YOU'RE DOING. I
01:11:53THINK WE WILL SEE RELATIVELY
01:11:56QUICKLY. BOTH STANDING RULES OF
01:11:59ENGAGEMENT AND LAW OF ARMED
01:12:01CONFLICT TO BE INTEGRATED INTO THESE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE,
01:12:04YOU KNOW, THROUGH THE, THROUGH
01:12:07THE MACHINE, SO TO SPEAK. OKAY.
01:12:09TO GIVE YOU AN A COMMANDER, A BETTER SENSE OF THE WHY. OKAY,
01:12:13OKAY, YOU CAN DO THIS, BUT
01:12:15YOU'RE, YOU'RE VIOLATING RULES
01:12:18OR YOU'RE VIOLATING ONE OR
01:12:20ANOTHER ACTIVITIES IF YOU DO IT.
01:12:23AND IF IT GOES WRONG. AND SO CAUTION, IF YOU CAN GET THAT AND
01:12:27YOU START TO SAY THAT ALONG WITH
01:12:30OTHER THINGS, GIVE ME A
01:12:33REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF INTER INTERPOSING MYSELF IN THE
01:12:37SOLUTION, UM, TO THE VALUE OF THE SOLUTION. UM, AND I THINK
01:12:40THOSE ARE GOING TO BE THE CRITERIA AND THEY'RE GOING TO
01:12:43CHANGE VERY RAPIDLY AS WE START
01:12:46TO ACTUALLY SEE WHAT ARE THE ELEMENTS OF A, OF A, OF AN
01:12:48ANSWER. ARE WE LOOKING FOR? OKAY, TODAY? WE'RE JUST KIND OF
01:12:52TREATING IT AS A SMART GOOGLE.
01:12:57AND THE REALITY HERE IS IT'S GOING TO GET BETTER AND BETTER
01:13:00AND BETTER. AND SO WHERE DO WE WANT THAT KNOWLEDGE TO BE? AND
01:13:03WHERE DO WE WANT TO INFORM
01:13:05SOMEBODY OF HOW TO DO IT? A
01:13:08DECISION SPEED, DECISION QUALITY TEND TO BE THE LITMUS TESTS ON
01:13:11THOSE TYPE OF ACTIVITIES. >> AND JUST ONE QUICK BUTTON ON
01:13:14THAT POINT. I THINK, UM, PART OF THE REASON WE FOCUS SO MUCH IN
01:13:18THIS DISCUSSION ON THIS QUESTION OF, OF TRUST IS BECAUSE AT THE
01:13:21END OF THE DAY, FROM A POLICY
01:13:25PERSPECTIVE, THE AUTHORITY FOR THE DECISION TO USE THESE SYSTEMS LIES WITH HUMAN
01:13:28OPERATORS, RIGHT? UM, SO PART OF
01:13:31THE, THE INHERENT CHALLENGE IN
01:13:33DEPLOYING SYSTEMS AND DECIDING
01:13:37WHEN TO ACCEPT A RECOMMENDATION FROM AN AI SYSTEM IS UNDERSTANDING THAT, UH, THIS
01:13:41COMES BACK TO HUMAN ACCOUNTABILITY AT THE END OF THE
01:13:44DAY, WHICH REALLY TIES INTO, UM, MANY OF THE POINTS WE RAISED
01:13:47THROUGHOUT THE BRIEF ABOUT, UM, THINKING RESPONSIBLY ABOUT
01:13:50ADOPTION. SO, UM, JUST WANT TO ADD A BUTTON ON THERE. >> THANKS. OWEN.
01:13:55>> THERE'S A QUESTION BACK HERE. HE'S BEEN REALLY PATIENT. OH.
01:13:58>> PLEASE. GO AHEAD. >> THANK YOU. A QUESTION FROM
01:14:01THE VOICE IN CONTEXT OF ALL
01:14:04THIS, UH, COULD YOU INCIDENT IN
01:14:09UKRAINE, WHICH WAS REPORTED BY
01:14:11THE NEW YORK TIMES, I BELIEVE,
01:14:15ON JULY 6th? UM EXPERTS SHOWED
01:14:22THAT ON JULY 6th IN THE CITY OF
01:14:24ZAPORIZHZHIA IN UKRAINE, UH, AI
01:14:28DRONE, RUSSIAN AUTONOMOUS AI
01:14:29DRONE THAT IT'S THE FIRST CASE,
01:14:35AT LEAST FIRST REPORTED
01:14:47ARE WE IN THE ARE THE SIDES OF THE CONFLICTS, RUSSIA AND
01:14:49UKRAINE IN THE OF CONFLICT?
01:14:53>> SO I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT
01:14:56SPECIFIC EVENT, BUT I WILL GIVE YOU A COMMENT. AND THAT IS I'M
01:14:58SURPRISED IT HASN'T HAPPENED ALREADY THAT THIS IS THE FIRST
01:15:01DOCUMENTED CASE OF THIS, THAT, THAT WE'VE SEEN. AND MAYBE IT IS JUST THE FIRST DOCUMENTED
01:15:05CASE THAT IT'S BEEN GOING ON
01:15:07FOR A WHILE ALREADY. BUT THE SPEED AND THE PACE IN WHICH THIS
01:15:10TECHNOLOGY IS CHANGING AND HOW FAST IT'S ADOPTING OVER THERE, IT JUST GOES BACK TO THE PIECE
01:15:14THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE TRUST AND THE TRAINING, AND
01:15:18MAKING SURE THAT WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THE BOUNDARIES ARE FOR
01:15:20THINGS. I'LL GIVE YOU A QUICK
01:15:23EXAMPLE THAT, UH, TALKING ABOUT WHAT GENERAL CARTWRIGHT WAS, YOU KNOW, PUTTING A FINER POINT ON
01:15:26IT, ON OUR COLLABORATIVE COMBAT AIRCRAFT, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU
01:15:30COULD DO, FOR EXAMPLE, IS THERE'S THREE DIFFERENT MODES.
01:15:34YOU CAN GO INTO ISR MODE OR E-W, OR LOYAL WINGMAN. YOU KNOW, IF
01:15:37ALL OF A SUDDEN ONE OF THESE SHOWS UP ON YOUR WING AND YOU
01:15:39CLICK ON IT, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN ISR AND E-W SHOW UP, BUT LOYAL
01:15:43WINGMAN DOESN'T. IT'S A GREAT WAY FOR A COUNTRY CAVEAT TO BE
01:15:47BAKED INTO SOMETHING THAT
01:15:50MORALLY OR ETHICALLY, THEY DON'T AGREE WITH. SO NOW WHAT THEY DO IS YOU CAN HAVE A
01:15:54SOFTWARE CONSTRAINT THAT STOPS YOU FROM DOING SOMETHING. IT COULD BE SOMETHING WITHIN
01:15:57MUNITIONS AS WELL, WHERE IT DOESN'T ALLOW THE SYSTEM TO BE
01:16:01ABLE TO AUTOMATICALLY DISCRIMINATE WHAT TARGET IT
01:16:03WANTS TO DO AT ENDGAME. SO THIS
01:16:07TECHNOLOGY IS RAPIDLY EVOLVING, AND WE REALLY DO. I MEAN,
01:16:10THERE'S MORAL AND ETHICAL DECISIONS WITH IT. THE LAWS OF OUR ARMED CONFLICT WILL CHANGE.
01:16:13BUT AGAIN, I GO BACK TO OWEN'S POINT. THIS IS ALL ABOUT THE
01:16:16HUMAN ACCOUNTABILITY PIECE OF IT.
01:16:18>> YEAH.
01:16:22>> I THINK ANY OTHER. >> WITH THAT, WE HAVE REACHED TIME, AND I KNOW WE HAVEN'T
01:16:26ANSWERED ALL. I TRUST ALL QUESTIONS, BUT WE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHOWING UP TODAY. PLEASE CHECK OUT THE BRIEF AS IT'S ONLINE. AND WE HERE AT THE
01:16:29FORWARD DEFENSE PROGRAM ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DRIVE
01:16:33FORWARD WITH A LOT OF AI PROGRAMING, AND WE LOOK FORWARD
01:16:34TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN THE
01:16:37FUTURE. THANK YOU
01:16:42>> [APPLAUSE]
01:16:45>> VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.
01:16:47>> [MUSIC]
01:16:51>> TODAY, PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL AWARD THE CREW OF THE ARTEMIS II WITH A CONGRESSIONAL SPACE MEDAL OF HONOR. THE CREW TRAVELED A
01:16:55RECORD DISTANCE FROM EARTH OF OVER 250,000 MILES, AND WERE THE
01:16:58FIRST TO LEAVE LOW EARTH ORBIT
01:17:00SINCE THE APOLLO 17 MISSION BACK
01:17:03IN 1972. WATCH LIVE FROM THE WHITE HOUSE AT 11 A.M. EASTERN
01:17:06ON C-SPAN 3 C-SPAN. NOW, OUR
01:17:09FREE MOBILE APP, AND ONLINE AT
01:17:13C-SPAN .ORG.
01:17:17>> [MUSIC] >> TODAY ON C-SPAN CEASE FIRE, A BIPARTISAN DISCUSSION ON THE
01:17:20STATE OF POLITICS. TODAY, THE FUTURE OF BOTH PARTIES, AND THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS, FEATURING
01:17:24FORMER NEW HAMPSHIRE REPUBLICAN
01:17:25GOVERNOR CHRIS SUNUNU AND FORMER NORTH DAKOTA DEMOCRATIC SENATOR
01:17:29HEIDI HEITKAMP, JOINED BY POLITICO, PLAYBOOK COAUTHOR AND CEASEFIRE HOST DASHA BURNS.
01:17:32THEY'LL ALSO DISCUSS THEIR JOINT EFFORTS TO TACKLE
01:17:35CHALLENGES IN RURAL COMMUNITIES.
01:17:38WATCH CEASEFIRE TODAY AT 7 P.M. AND 10 P.M. EASTERN AND PACIFIC
01:17:42ONLY ON C-SPAN. AMERICAN HISTORY
01:17:48TV SATURDAYS ON C-SPAN 2.
01:17:52EXPLORING THE PEOPLE AND EVENTS THAT TELL THE AMERICAN STORY. AT
01:17:561:30 P.M. EASTERN, WE'LL TAKE YOU ON A TOUR OF THE IOWA STATE FAIR FOR A LOOK AT THE ANNUAL
01:17:59CELEBRATIONS. FAMOUS LANDMARKS, STORIES FROM THE FAIR'S PAST,
01:18:03AND AN UP CLOSE ENCOUNTER WITH
01:18:04THE ICONIC BUTTER COW. LATER, A
01:18:08HISTORICAL TOUR OF THE MARINE BARRACKS IN WASHINGTON, D.C.,
01:18:12HOME OF THE PRESIDENT'S OWN U.S. MARINE BAND. YOU'LL HEAR
01:18:15FROM THE BAND'S DRUM MAJOR AND THEN SEE THE WEEKLY DRILL PARADE AND CONCERT OF THE MARINE CORPS
01:18:19AT 5 P.M. EASTERN, AND THEN AT 7:30 P.M. EASTERN. AS PART OF
01:18:22OUR IN PURSUIT SERIES ON PRESIDENTIAL LEADERSHIP, JOURNALISTS AND HISTORIANS REFLECT ON THE LEGACIES OF
01:18:27PRESIDENT WARREN HARDING, FIRST
01:18:30LADY FLORENCE HARDING, PRESIDENT WOODROW WILSON, AND FIRST LADY
01:18:32EDITH WILSON, EXPLORING THE
01:18:34AMERICAN STORY. WATCH AMERICAN
01:18:38HISTORY TV SATURDAYS ON C-SPAN 2 AND FIND THE FULL SCHEDULE ON YOUR PROGRAM GUIDE, OR WATCH
01:18:42ONLINE ANYTIME AT C-SPAN .ORG/
01:18:47HISTORY. MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC
01:18:50SENATE CANDIDATE ABDUL EL-SAYED
01:18:53SPOKE ABOUT HIS SUPPORT OF UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE AND ECONOMIC POLICY DURING A
01:18:56CAMPAIGN RALLY