Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00THAT'S A DIFFERENT DIFFERENT
00:00:02BOOK YEAH OKAY SO CARRIE WROTE A
00:00:05BOOK WHICH WAS A SERIES OF SORT
00:00:09OF INTERVIEWS AND STORIES ABOUT PEOPLE IN THE CITY AND THE
00:00:13IMPACT OF TECH ON PEOPLE. BUT I THINK WAS CALLED SILICON
00:00:16CITY IS IS A TITLE MIXING UP THE
00:00:17TITLE YEAH I THINK AND THERE'S
00:00:21WHICH I THOUGHT WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE IT'S REALLY NOT MUCH SILICON IN THE CITY I MEAN NO
00:00:25WORKER IN THE COUNTRY YEAH SO
00:00:27YEAH AND THEN THERE'S GARY
00:00:31MILLER'S THAT'S RIGHT. A CITY OF LOVE AND YEAH BUT YEAH
00:00:33I THINK I CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW DAVID TALBOT'S BOOK I THOUGHT
00:00:37WAS A TERRIFIC BOOK AND I CERTAINLY TOOK SOME INSPIRATION FROM THAT.
00:00:40I MEAN IT'S DIFFERENT IN STYLE. I WOULDN'T REALLY CALL IT A
00:00:43SEQUEL, BUT IT'S YEAH, IT
00:00:45DEFINITELY HAVE CERTAIN SIMILARITIES. YEAH.
00:00:48AND IT'S A CITY THAT'S WORTH CHRONICLING.
00:00:53SO LET'S GIVE THANKS JONATHAN
00:00:55SITTING ON THE EDGE TECHNOLOGY AND FIGHT FOR THE SOUL OF SAN
00:01:00FRANCISCO AND GOTHAM WILL BE AVAILABLE TO SIGN BOOKS.
00:01:03YEAH, YEAH.
00:01:05THANKS VERY MUCH AND FOR
00:01:09INFORMATION ABOUT THE COMMONWEALTH CLUB WORLD AFFAIRS MEMBERSHIP AND UPCOMING
00:01:12PROGRAMS, PLEASE VISIT COMMONWEALTH CLUB DOT. ORG.
00:01:15I'M JOHN MARKOFF. THANK YOU FOR COMING TONIGHT. THANK YOU.
00:01:18THANK VERY MUCH.
00:01:22SARAH.
00:01:32HELLO, EVERYBODY. WELCOME TO THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE.
00:01:36EVOLVE IN. I'M A FELLOW HERE AT AEI AND IT'S MY VERY GREAT PLEASURE TO
00:01:40WELCOME YOU TO A CONVERSATION WITH UTAH GOVERNOR SPENCER COX,
00:01:45AUTHOR OF THE IMPORTANT NEW BOOK, OFFRAMP HOW TO BE A
00:01:47PEACEMAKER IN AN AGE OF CONTEMPT.
00:01:49WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT BOOK. WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE CHALLENGES
00:01:52TO PEACEMAKING. WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE CHALLENGES OF GOVERNING.
00:01:55UM, IT'S ALWAYS ESPECIALLY
00:01:58ENJOYABLE TO TALK TO GOVERNORS ABOUT THESE KINDS OF QUESTIONS
00:02:02NOW, BECAUSE GOVERNORS REALLY ARE AN EXCEPTION IN THIS MOMENT,
00:02:05NOT ALL GOVERNORS. AND MAYBE YOU'RE BEGINNING TO THINK OF EXCEPTIONS IN YOUR MIND
00:02:09AS I SAY THIS, BUT GENERALLY,
00:02:12GOVERNORS IN AMERICA, IN THIS
00:02:16PECULIAR POLITICAL TIME ARE PRACTICAL PEOPLE, UH,
00:02:18LEVELHEADED, SANE, EXERCISING
00:02:21REAL POWER AND SERIOUS WAYS, AND
00:02:25EVEN AMONG THEM, I WOULD SAY THAT SPENCER COX REALLY STANDS
00:02:28OUT AS A PERSON WHO NOT ONLY DOES THAT, BUT ALSO THINKS ABOUT
00:02:31HOW TO DO THAT, HOW TO BE AN EXECUTIVE. NOW, HOW TO BE A LEADER, HOW TO
00:02:35BE A PUBLIC OFFICIAL, OR EVEN HOW TO BE A POLITICIAN IN A WAY
00:02:41THAT REFLECTS WELL ON HIS
00:02:43RESPONSIBLE APPROACH TO THE JOB HE'S TAKEN.
00:02:46HE'S A POLITICIAN. HE HAS STRONG VIEWS. HE HAS A PARTY.
00:02:50HE DOESN'T PRETEND TO BE ABOVE THE FRAY, BUT I THINK HE TRIES
00:02:52TO BE IN THE FRAY AS AN ADULT. AND THIS BOOK IS IN SOME
00:02:56RESPECTS REALLY A ROAD MAP FOR HOW THAT COULD BE DONE.
00:03:00A FEW WORDS ABOUT HIM. SPENCER COX IS THE 18TH GOVERNOR OF UTAH.
00:03:04HE'S HAD THAT JOB SINCE 2021.
00:03:07HE WAS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR BEFORE THAT FOR EIGHT YEARS. PRIOR TO THAT WAS A STATE
00:03:11LEGISLATOR IN UTAH, A COUNTY COMMISSIONER, A MAYOR, A CITY
00:03:15COUNCILMAN. YOU MIGHT SAY HE'S A POLITICIAN
00:03:17IN A GOOD IN A GOOD WAY.
00:03:19HE'S BEEN AN ELECTIVE OFFICE
00:03:22SINCE 2004, WHICH IS NOT ONLY A LONG TIME, BUT IT'S BEEN A
00:03:26PECULIAR TIME TO BE A POLITICIAN
00:03:26IN AMERICA AND NOT ALWAYS IN A GOOD WAY.
00:03:30IT'S BEEN A TIME IN WHICH WE'VE SEEN OUR POLITICAL CULTURE, AT
00:03:34LEAST ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL, GRADUALLY TRANSFORMED IN THE
00:03:38DIRECTION OF A KIND OF PERFORMATIVE PARTIZAN CIRCUS.
00:03:40BUT GOVERNOR COX IN GENERAL AND
00:03:42IN THIS BOOK SUGGESTS THAT IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY HAVE TO BE THAT WAY.
00:03:46WE'LL HEAR A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THAT MIGHT WORK.
00:03:48GOVERNOR COX, WELCOME. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
00:03:52AND THANKS FOR THE KIND WORDS YOU'VE ALL IT'S GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.
00:03:55A POLITICIAN WRITING A BOOK
00:03:58NATURALLY RAISES SUSPICIONS. IT DOES.
00:04:02AND SUSPICIONS FROM ALL DIRECTIONS.
00:04:04BUT HELP US TO ASSUAGE THOSE BY
00:04:06JUST TELLING US AT THE OUTSET HERE WHAT IS THIS BOOK ABOUT? AND WHY NOW?
00:04:10YEAH, WELL, THE I WANTED TO
00:04:14REALLY ASSUAGE THOSE VIEWS EARLY AND SO THE VERY FIRST LINE IN
00:04:17THE BOOK IS I AM NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT AND I WANT TO MAKE
00:04:21THAT VERY CLEAR. AND I INCLUDED THAT FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS.
00:04:23BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST IS IF I'M
00:04:26IF I'M JUST DOING THIS, WE LIVE
00:04:28IN SUCH A CYNICAL SOCIETY TODAY
00:04:30AND MAYBE FOR GOOD REASON, ALTHOUGH I HATE CYNICISM AND I
00:04:33TALK ABOUT THAT A BIT IN THE BOOK, BUT THE IF I IF I WAS
00:04:37WRITING THIS FOR TWO TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT, THEN YOU SHOULDN'T
00:04:41READ IT. IT WOULD MEAN THAT IT'S LESS THAN SINCERE.
00:04:45THE PURPOSE OF THIS BOOK IS I
00:04:47YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN WORRIED ABOUT POLARIZATION FOR A LONG TIME.
00:04:50I ACTUALLY STARTED WRITING. I WROTE MY FIRST ARTICLE ABOUT POLARIZATION AS LIEUTENANT
00:04:54GOVERNOR IN 2014 WHEN I THOUGHT IT COULDN'T GET ANY WORSE. IT DID.
00:04:58IT GOT SO MUCH WORSE, YOU GUYS
00:05:00AND AND THAT CONCERNED ME WHEN I
00:05:03WHEN I BECAME CHAIR OF THE NATIONAL GOVERNORS ASSOCIATION,
00:05:06THE INITIATIVE WAS AROUND POLARIZATION FOR THE REASONS THAT YOU MENTIONED.
00:05:09I FELT THAT GOVERNORS WERE STILL AS FRANK ONCE SAID, THE ADULTS
00:05:13IN THE ROOM. WHEN IT COMES TO POLITICS, AT LEAST MOST OF THEM, THERE ARE A COUPLE AT THE KIDS TABLE, BUT
00:05:17MOST OF THE MOST GOVERNORS ARE TRYING TO GOVERN. AND YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO GET
00:05:21STUFF DONE. UNLIKE CONGRESS RIGHT NOW.
00:05:24AND AND THEY'RE SERIOUS ABOUT IT. AND SO I FELT THAT WAS A FORUM
00:05:28WHERE WE COULD ACTUALLY MODEL MAYBE BETTER BEHAVIOR.
00:05:32AND AND WORK ON SOME BIG ISSUES TOGETHER.
00:05:34BUT WE COULDN'T SOLVE ANY ISSUES TOGETHER AS AMERICANS IF WE IF WE ALL HATE EACH OTHER.
00:05:38AND THEN I STARTED TALKING TO
00:05:41RESEARCHERS, READING THE SOCIAL
00:05:44SCIENCE, INCLUDING MUCH OF WHAT YOU'VE WRITTEN AND AND STARTED
00:05:47TO GET DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE RISE IN POLITICAL VIOLENCE
00:05:51IN OUR IN OUR COUNTRY. WE'VE WE'VE SEEN A TEN FOLD
00:05:54INCREASE IN THREATS OF VIOLENCE TOWARD MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN
00:05:56THE PAST TEN YEARS. NOW, I KNOW I ALWAYS SAY THAT
00:06:00PEOPLE ARE LIKE, OH, YEAH, 10% INCREASE. I'M LIKE, NO, I TEN TIMES INCREASE.
00:06:04AND AND SO AND SO I STARTED
00:06:08WRITING THIS BOOK THREE YEARS AGO, AND AND THEN A YEAR AGO,
00:06:12ALL OF THE THEORETICAL BECAME VERY REAL. WHEN WHEN CHARLIE KIRK WAS
00:06:17ASSASSINATED IN MY STATE THE
00:06:18LAST PLACE IN AMERICA THAT I THOUGHT THAT COULD HAPPEN.
00:06:21AND IT HAPPENED THERE. AND THAT'S WHEN I FELT COMPELLED
00:06:25THAT I JUST NEEDED TO FINISH AND
00:06:28AND HOPE THAT THAT I COULD SHARE THAT MESSAGE WITH PEOPLE THAT
00:06:32THAT DAY, THE BRUTAL MURDER OF
00:06:34CHARLIE KIRK WAS KIND OF WHERE THE BOOK BEGINS. TELL US ABOUT THAT DAY FROM YOUR
00:06:38POINT OF VIEW. YEAH, YOU KNOW, IT'S A DAY MUCH LIKE TODAY, A BEAUTIFUL
00:06:42SEPTEMBER DAY IN UTAH. WE'RE GOING ABOUT OUR BUSINESS.
00:06:46I KNEW CHARLIE WAS COMING AND HE WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO GIVE TWO SPEECHES.
00:06:49HE WAS GIVING ONE AT UTAH VALLEY UNIVERSITY. AND THEN A WEEK LATER, HE'S
00:06:53GIVING ONE AT UTAH STATE UNIVERSITY, WHICH IS MY ALMA MATER. AND I WAS MORE FOCUSED ON THE
00:06:57UTAH STATE ONE AND KNEW ONE. THAT ONE WAS KIND OF FORGOTTEN ABOUT THE UVU SPEECH.
00:07:01SO I HAD HIM PROCESSED. HE WAS IN THE STATE THAT DAY
00:07:04WHEN WHEN MY MY ASSISTANT CAME
00:07:08INTO THE ROOM WITH A LOOK ON HER FACE THAT I'D NEVER SEEN BEFORE.
00:07:12AND WE TRY TO PREPARE FOR THIS
00:07:14STUFF AT NEW GOVERNOR SCHOOL WITH THE NCAA OR BABY GOVERNOR
00:07:18SCHOOL, AS WE CALL IT. WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THE MINUTE
00:07:20YOU'RE SWORN IN, THERE'S SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN IN THE
00:07:24TIME YOU'RE SERVING THAT YOU'RE NOT PREPARED FOR, THAT YOU DIDN'T EXPECT THAT.
00:07:28AND THAT MOMENT WILL COME AND YOU HAVE TO TRY TO BE READY FOR IT.
00:07:32AND I KNEW JUST FROM HER FACE THAT THIS WAS THAT MOMENT THAT
00:07:34SOMETHING TERRIBLE WOULD HAPPEN.
00:07:36I WALKED OUT OF OUR STATE TROOPER.
00:07:40POLICE WERE THERE AND AND TOLD
00:07:44ME THAT THERE HAD BEEN A SHOOTING ON CAMPUS AND THAT CHARLIE KIRK HAVE BEEN SHOT.
00:07:47AND I REALLY STRUGGLED TO
00:07:50PROCESS THAT, LIKE, WAIT, WHAT
00:07:52IS IS YOUR OKAY, YOU KNOW,
00:07:54ANYBODY ELSE? IN FACT, I WAS TOLD TWO PEOPLE
00:07:57IN AND SHOT THAT WAS
00:07:59MISINFORMATION AT FIRST AND AND AS WE'RE HAVING THIS
00:08:02CONVERSATION I SAID ARE YOU SURE YOU ABSOLUTELY SURE.
00:08:05BECAUSE IN THE KIND OF FOG OF WAR, YOU GET A LOT OF BAD INFORMATION AND SOMEBODY HANDED
00:08:09ME THEIR PHONE IN THE VIDEO, HAD ALREADY STARTED TO GO VIRAL.
00:08:13YOU ALL SAW AND I WISH I COULD
00:08:16UNSEE AND AND THEN 30 SECONDS
00:08:20LATER, THEY WALKED IN WITH ANOTHER PHONE AND THEY SAID, IT'S THE WHITE HOUSE.
00:08:24SECRETARY RUBIO IS ON THE PHONE. HE'S IN THE SITUATION ROOM. HE WAS AT THE WHITE HOUSE WHEN
00:08:27THIS HAPPENED. WANTS TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, DO WE HAVE SOMEBODY IN CUSTODY?
00:08:31HOW'S CHARLIE WATTS? AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT'S
00:08:35HAPPENING YET. RIGHT. AND SO WE'RE TRYING TO MANAGE UP AND DOWN AND IT WAS IT WAS VERY
00:08:39CHAOTIC DAY, A VERY OBVIOUSLY I
00:08:42MEAN, THE WORST DAY THAT I'VE
00:08:44HAD IS AS GOVERNOR AND AND AND
00:08:48THEN THERE'S ALL THE QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, IS COULD THIS HAPPEN
00:08:52AGAIN? IT WAS THERE MORE THAN ONE PERSON? WHAT DO WE KNOW?
00:08:56AND AND AND THEN WHAT DO WE TELL PEOPLE?
00:08:58BECAUSE VERY QUICKLY, IF THERE'S A VACUUM OF INFORMATION, THAT
00:09:03VACUUM GETS FILLED WITH BAD INFORMATION.
00:09:05AND WE COULD SEE THAT BAD INFORMATION ESCALATING AND WE
00:09:09KNEW WE NEEDED TO SAY SOMETHING
00:09:11AND AND AND SO WE WE FINALLY DECIDED TO CALL A PRESS
00:09:14CONFERENCE AS I'M AS I'M DRIVING THERE, I GET A CALL FROM FROM A
00:09:17FELLOW GOVERNOR, JOSH SHAPIRO,
00:09:20DEMOCRAT, PENNSYLVANIAN, WHO WAS
00:09:22THE GOVERNOR WHEN THERE WAS AN
00:09:24ATTEMPTED ASSASSINATION ON THEN FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S LIFE. AND BUTLER, PENNSYLVANIA.
00:09:28AND SO HE WAS THE ONE PERSON WHO
00:09:31COULD MAYBE EMPATHIZE A LITTLE
00:09:33BIT WITH WHAT I WAS GOING THROUGH AT THAT TIME.
00:09:37AND HE HE SAID, I SAID, JOSH,
00:09:39GIVE ME SOME ADVICE. HE SAID, I'LL GIVE YOU TWO PIECES OF ADVICE.
00:09:43HE SAID, YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF TALKING POINTS RIGHT NOW.
00:09:45I WANT YOU TO TEAR THEM UP.
00:09:49WHATEVER YOUR STAFF TOLD YOU TO SAY, DON'T SAY THAT.
00:09:51AND HE SAID, I WANT YOU TO I
00:09:55WANT YOU TO SPEAK WITH MORAL CLARITY.
00:09:58CALL IT WHAT IT IS. DON'T DANCE AROUND THINGS.
00:10:01AND AND HE SAID AND SPEAK FROM THE HEART.
00:10:04I SAID, WHATEVER. HE SAID, I KNOW YOU.
00:10:07I KNOW YOUR CHARACTER, WHATEVER COMES INTO YOUR HEART, IN YOUR
00:10:10MIND WILL BE THE THING THAT YOU NEED TO SAY.
00:10:13AND AND I'M GRATEFUL TO HAVE FRIENDS LIKE THAT.
00:10:16I'M GRATEFUL THAT WE HAVE THAT AS GOVERNORS, WE CAN WORK WITH
00:10:20EACH OTHER ACROSS PARTY LINES AND AND I DID WHAT HE TOLD ME TO
00:10:22DO, AND I'M GRATEFUL THAT I TOOK HIS ADVICE THAT THAT PRESS
00:10:26CONFERENCE IS WHERE THE TITLE OF THE BOOK COMES FROM. RIGHT.
00:10:29AT A CERTAIN POINT, YOU SAID WE HAVE TO FIND AN OFFRAMP OFF THIS
00:10:34ROAD. WHY IS THAT THE METAPHOR AND WHAT'S THE ROAD WE'RE ON?
00:10:38WELL, THE ROAD WE'RE ON IS, IS IS A PRETTY DARK ONE.
00:10:42YOU'VE WRITTEN ABOUT IT. I HAVE TO SAY. I'M A LITTLE EMBARRASSED.
00:10:46THE TREE ON THIS SIDE OF THE THE THE INTERVIEW, MY MY POOR
00:10:50PUBLISHER SAID, HEY, WE CAN'T HAVE 200 YUVAL QUOTES IN YOUR
00:10:54BOOK. YOU CAN ONLY HAVE LIKE 25. SO SO WE HAD TO CUT A LOT OF
00:10:57THEM OUT. SO YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR ME DOING LIKE THE TEAM IMPRESSION OF
00:11:01YUVAL, RIGHT NOW.
00:11:02BUT YOU, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
00:11:06SO WE LOOK THE PATH THAT WE ARE
00:11:09ON AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT THIS.
00:11:11THE EXPERTS ARE PRETTY CLEAR. THERE'S THERE'S A LEVEL OF
00:11:15AFFECTIVE POLARIZATION THAT'S HAPPENING IN OUR COUNTRY THAT IS INCREDIBLE.
00:11:19INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS. SO SO I THINK THE POLARIZATION
00:11:23IS IS KIND OF HOW WE FEEL TOWARDS OUR OUR FELLOW
00:11:27AMERICANS. ARTHUR BROOKS HAS WRITTEN THAT
00:11:31THE LEVEL OF AFFECTIVE POLARIZATION, THAT FEELING OF OF
00:11:34CONTEMPT OF OF HATE OR EVEN
00:11:37WORSE TOWARDS OUR ART, THE OPPOSING PARTY IS SIMILAR TO TO
00:11:43THE LEVELS OF POLARIZATION THAT HAVE BEEN MEASURED BETWEEN ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS.
00:11:46AND WE KNOW HOW THAT'S GOING RIGHT.
00:11:49AND AND SO AND AND I NEED TO
00:11:52POINT OUT THAT THAT'S THAT'S THE ACTUAL POLARIZATION ISN'T THAT
00:11:56GREAT IF AND THAT'S THE BIG
00:11:58PERCEPTION GAP THAT AMERICANS IF YOU ASK A THOUSAND REPUBLICANS
00:12:01AND A THOUSAND DEMOCRATS WHAT THEY BELIEVE. WE'RE ONLY THIS FAR APART ON ALL
00:12:05OF THE MAJOR ISSUES. WE'RE ACTUALLY NOT THAT NOT THAT DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER.
00:12:09BUT IF YOU ASK REPUBLICANS WHAT THEY THINK DEMOCRATS BELIEVE ON THE ISSUES AND THE HOUSE
00:12:13DEMOCRATS WHAT THEY THINK REPUBLICANS BELIEVE ON THE ISSUES, WE'RE THIS FAR APART AND
00:12:17IF YOU LOOK THROUGHOUT HISTORY,
00:12:19IN OTHER CULTURES AND OTHER PLACES AND EVEN HERE IN THE
00:12:251850S, IN 1860S, WHEN WHEN THAT
00:12:27LEVEL OF AFFECTED POLARIZATION GETS REACHED, THE NATURAL RESORT
00:12:32RESULT OF THAT IS POLITICAL VIOLENCE. AND THAT'S THE ROAD I THINK WE'RE ON.
00:12:35AND AGAIN, WE'VE SEEN THIS HAPPENING. AND THE THREATS I MENTIONED TO
00:12:40CONGRESS, THREATS TO THE JUDICIARY, AND NOT JUST IN THE
00:12:42NATIONAL LEVEL, BUT AT THE LOCAL LEVEL TO CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS
00:12:47AND SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS THAT
00:12:48ARE RECEIVING VIOLENT THREATS.
00:12:51THAT'S THAT'S THE PATH WE'RE ON.
00:12:53THAT'S WHY I CHOSE THE METAPHOR
00:12:57AND WE DESPERATELY NEED AN OFF RAMP. WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO TO MOVE
00:13:01BEYOND THAT, THAT CYCLE OF RETRIBUTION THAT WE'RE FEELING
00:13:04RIGHT NOW, WHERE WHERE WE CAN FIND A WAY TO ENGAGE AGAIN WITH
00:13:08OUR WITH OUR FELLOW AMERICANS IN WAYS THAT ACTUALLY SOLVE
00:13:11PROBLEMS. THAT'S WHAT AMERICAN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT.
00:13:14I'M VERY HOPEFUL.
00:13:16I DON'T USE THE WORD OPTIMISM
00:13:19ANYMORE BECAUSE YUVAL AND I'M
00:13:21VERY HOPEFUL BECAUSE 70% OF
00:13:24AMERICANS RIGHT NOW HATE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN POLITICS.
00:13:26THEY'RE HUNGRY FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT. I THINK THERE IS A MARKET
00:13:30FAILURE IN BOTH PARTIES AND HUGELY MARKET FAILURES GET
00:13:34FILLED WITH ENTREPRENEURIAL POLITICIANS.
00:13:37AND WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT WILL HAPPEN. WHAT ARE THE STRIKING THINGS ABOUT HOW YOU TALK ABOUT THIS IN
00:13:41THE BOOK? IS YOU KIND OF MOVE FROM
00:13:45AFFECTIVE POLARIZATION TO THIS TERM. THAT'S A LITTLE HARD TO TO TO
00:13:48HANDLE, AND YOU FOCUS ON THE TERM CONTEMPT OR YEAH, CONTEMPT
00:13:52AS OPPOSED TO DISAGREEMENT. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY CONTEMPT?
00:13:55WHAT'S DISTINCT ABOUT IT?
00:13:57AND WHY IS THAT THE TERM YOU USE TO UNDERSTAND OUR SITUATION? YES.
00:14:00SO THERE'S WE TEND TO THINK OF
00:14:04CONFLICT IN A NEGATIVE WAY, BUT
00:14:06THE CONFLICT IS NEUTRAL THERE. THERE'S HEALTHY CONFLICT AND
00:14:10THERE'S UNHEALTHY CONFLICT. AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW,
00:14:12OF COURSE, IS IS EXTREME, EXTREMELY UNHEALTHY CONFLICT.
00:14:16BUT BUT CONTEMPT IS THIS. I DID NOT NOT THAT I DISAGREE
00:14:20WITH YOU, BUT I DESPISE YOU THAT
00:14:22YOU'RE BENEATH ME.
00:14:24YOU'RE EVIL.
00:14:26I REFUSE TO ENGAGE WITH YOU AND
00:14:29I HAVE TO DESTROY YOU. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING
00:14:31FROM FAR TOO MUCH OF OUR POLITICS TODAY.
00:14:35I THINK INSTINCTIVELY. YOU KNOW WHY THAT'S THAT?
00:14:38THAT'S NOT GREAT. BUT I REALLY DID WANT TO DISTINGUISH IT BETWEEN
00:14:42DISAGREEMENT, BECAUSE I MAKE THE
00:14:43CASE THAT IT'S NOT WE DON'T NEED
00:14:47LESS DISAGREEMENT. WE ACTUALLY NEED MORE DISAGREEMENT IN IN THE RIGHT WAYS.
00:14:52AND IN THE RIGHT INSTITUTIONS.
00:14:55AND AND IS IS, AS YOU SO
00:14:57ELOQUENTLY WRITE IN IN AMERICAN
00:15:01COVENANT, THAT THE CONSTITUTION
00:15:03REQUIRES DISAGREEMENT. IT WAS MEANT FOR IT.
00:15:06IT'S IT'S THE WAY BY WHICH WE
00:15:08ACT TOGETHER OR AS AS A AS A
00:15:12NATION. IT'S A WAY TO CHANNEL OUR DISAGREE IN PRODUCTIVE WAYS THAT
00:15:16FORCES US TO TO BUILD COALITIONS AGAIN, THIS IS WHY CONGRESS IS
00:15:19SO IMPORTANT AND WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO BE THE MOST POWERFUL BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT. SOMETHING WE'VE GOTTEN WRONG
00:15:24RECENTLY AND DESPERATELY NEED TO FIX.
00:15:26BUT BUT IN A PLURALISTIC COUNTRY
00:15:28LIKE OURS, IT'S THE ONLY WAY WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO
00:15:32SURVIVE AND AND CONTINUE TO FUNCTION AS A COUNTRY IF WE ARE
00:15:36ABLE TO COME TOGETHER AND HAVE MORE DEBATE, NOT LESS.
00:15:39IF WE'RE ABLE TO TO TO TEACH A
00:15:43NEW GENERATION HOW TO DEBATE. TURNS OUT THAT PEOPLE WHO
00:15:47LEARNED HOW TO DEBATE IN HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE ARE FAR LESS POLARIZED THAN THE REST OF THE
00:15:52COUNTRY. YOU, BY LEARNING THE OTHER
00:15:54PERSON'S AGREEMENT, YOU'RE
00:15:56BETTER WITH YOUR OR THEY'RE
00:16:00POSITION. YOU'RE MUCH BETTER WITH YOUR POSITION AND IN A DEBATE.
00:16:02BUT YOU ALSO LEARN THAT THE OTHER SIDE ISN'T EVIL OR CRAZY.
00:16:06THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW AND IT'S OFTEN RATIONAL.
00:16:09IT MAY BE WRONG, BUT BUT.
00:16:11BUT IT'S IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE
00:16:13WE FIGURE OUT AGAIN, HOW TO ENGAGE THERE.
00:16:16AND THAT'S WHY I, TOO OFTEN WHEN
00:16:19WE TALK ABOUT CIVILITY, WE THINK
00:16:21ABOUT IT IN KIND OF MILKED TOAST TERMS.
00:16:24WE ALL JUST WANT TO HOLD HANDS. IT'S KUMBAYA.
00:16:27WE ALL JUST NEED TO GET ALONG. AND I DO THINK WE SHOULD BE
00:16:32KINDER TO EACH OTHER, DON'T GET ME WRONG. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.
00:16:36I PEOPLE ARE ANGRY AND AND IT'S
00:16:38IMPORTANT THAT WE HELP PEOPLE
00:16:41UNDERSTAND HOW TO CHANNEL THAT ANGER IN PRODUCTIVE WAYS THAT
00:16:45CAN ACTUALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE
00:16:47AND NOT TELL THEM, YOU KNOW, NOT TO BE UPSET OR THAT YOU NEED TO
00:16:51YOU NEED TO GET RID OF OR COMPROMISE YOUR DEEPLY HELD
00:16:55PRINCIPLES. THAT'S THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AT ALL. I WANT PEOPLE TO STAY TRUE TO
00:16:59THEIR DEEPLY HELD PRINCIPLES. I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF INTELLECTUAL
00:17:03HUMILITY AND CHALLENGE THEIR THEIR OWN POINT OF VIEW ON OCCASION.
00:17:06I THINK THAT THAT'S HEALTHY. MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE TESTING OUR
00:17:09AS A SCIENTIST TOWARD KIND OF TESTING OUR OWN POSITIONS.
00:17:13AND WHEN WE DO SO, IT MAKES OUR OUR POSITIONS EVEN STRONGER.
00:17:17I THINK WHEN WE DO IT THE RIGHT WAY. BUT BUT I'M JUST ASKING PEOPLE
00:17:20TO ENGAGE WITH DIGNITY AND RESPECT WITH THEIR OPPONENTS AND
00:17:24AND NOT TO NOT TO COMPLETELY
00:17:26WRITE OFF HALF OF OUR FELLOW AMERICANS.
00:17:28SO HOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE SOURCES OF THAT ANGER?
00:17:32WHAT IS IT THAT ANGRY AMERICANS
00:17:34ARE ANGRY ABOUT IN THIS MOMENT?
00:17:38WELL, THEY'RE I MEAN, THEY'RE ANGRY ABOUT LOTS OF THINGS.
00:17:42THEY'RE THEY'RE ANGRY ABOUT DATA CENTERS. I THINK THAT'S THAT'S ONE OF THE
00:17:46THINGS I'VE LEARNED FIRSTHAND THAT THAT PEOPLE ARE ANGRY ABOUT.
00:17:50AND IT SEEMS LIKE MAYBE A VERSION OF THE HEALTHIER KIND OF
00:17:53JUST OF. RIGHT. YEAH. IF YOU'RE ANGRY ABOUT SOMETHING
00:17:57THAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN YOUR COMMUNITY THAT YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT YOU THINK
00:18:01CREATES A PROBLEM IN YOUR OWN LIFE, YOU HAVE SOMETHING LIKE A POLITICAL DEBATE ABOUT IT.
00:18:05IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF WHAT YOU'RE POINTING TO UNDERNEATH
00:18:08THAT IS AN ANGER THAT ISN'T
00:18:10REALLY ABOUT A TRACTABLE POLITICAL PROBLEM. CORRECT.
00:18:14AND I THINK TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WHAT WE'RE ANGRY ABOUT, WE DO
00:18:17HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE SOURCES A LITTLE BIT.
00:18:20AND IT GOES BACK A LONG, LONG TIME.
00:18:25I I'M A BIG FAN OF OF THE WRITINGS OF ALEXIS DE
00:18:28TOCQUEVILLE WHEN HE CAME HERE IN THE 1830S. AND AND SAW THAT AMERICANS WERE
00:18:32REALLY UNIQUE AT FORMING INSTITUTIONS. THAT'S WHAT WE WHAT WE DO IF WE
00:18:36WANTED TO BUILD A HOSPITAL OR A
00:18:39YOU KNOW, A SCHOOL, WE FORMED AN ASSOCIATION AND WE BUILT IT.
00:18:42INSTEAD OF RELYING ON THE GOVERNMENT TO DO THOSE THINGS. AND WE GOT REALLY GOOD AT IT.
00:18:46SO MANY OF THOSE INSTITUTIONS NOW ARE DISAPPEARING.
00:18:50THEY'RE FAILING. AND WHAT WE'RE THERE'S A
00:18:54DOWNSTREAM EFFECT OF THAT THAT IS DEEPLY CONCERNING.
00:18:58OF COURSE, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S IT'S HARD TO GET ANYTHING DONE. NOW.
00:19:01WE RELY ON GOVERNMENT. GOVERNMENT ISN'T GREAT AT THIS STUFF. IT WAS NEVER DESIGNED TO DO ALL OF THIS.
00:19:04GOVERNMENT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SLOW, METHODICAL, BUILDING COALITIONS TAKES TIME.
00:19:08AND AND SO WE'RE WE'RE NOT RESPONDING THE WAY PEOPLE EXPECT
00:19:12GOVERNMENT TO BECAUSE WE'RE EXPECTING MORE OF GOVERNMENT THAN EVER BEFORE.
00:19:16AND GOVERNMENT IS IS MORE DYSFUNCTIONAL THAN IT'S BEEN IN A LONG, LONG TIME.
00:19:20AND SO THAT'S CERTAINLY LEADING TO SOME ANGST.
00:19:23BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, AS THESE INSTITUTIONS DISAPPEAR, AND MANY
00:19:26OF THEM WERE FAITH BASED INSTITUTIONS, FEWER PEOPLE ARE GOING TO CHURCH THAN EVER
00:19:30BEFORE. AND WE DON'T HAVE ROTARY CLUBS,
00:19:33YOU KNOW, SOCIAL CLUBS LIKE WE USED TO.
00:19:36OF COURSE, DOCTOR PUTNAM WRITES BOWLING ALONE 26 YEARS AGO.
00:19:40REALLY PRESCIENT IN SEEING WHERE WE'RE HEADED.
00:19:43AND AND SO WE'RE LONELIER THAN WE'VE EVER BEEN BEFORE.
00:19:45AND THOSE HEALTHY TRIBES, WE'RE WIRED FOR CONNECTION AS THOSE
00:19:49HEALTHY TRIBES LEAVE US. WHAT DO WE HAVE LEFT? RIGHT.
00:19:53WELL, ENTER SOCIAL MEDIA.
00:19:55SO INTO THIS VOID COMES THIS OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO CONNECT
00:19:58WITH MORE PEOPLE IN A WAY THAT WE ALL THOUGHT WOULD BE AWESOME.
00:20:02AND IT WAS UNTIL THE SOCIAL
00:20:04MEDIA COMPANIES DECIDED THAT THEIR ALGORITHMS WERE MORE
00:20:07IMPORTANT THAN OUR ACTUAL CONNECTIONS. AND THOSE THAT ALGORITHMIC
00:20:11NATURE OF THE WAY WE GET
00:20:15ADDICTED, THE DOPAMINE HITS THAT COME FROM OUTRAGE, THE SAME TYPE
00:20:17OF DOPAMINE HITS YOU GET FROM FENTANYL OR SUGAR OR GAMBLING.
00:20:22WE NOW GET FROM FROM OUTRAGE AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY REAL FRIENDS.
00:20:26SO WE CAN HATE THE SAME PEOPLE
00:20:27TOGETHER ON ON EX THAT'S THAT'S
00:20:31FILLING THIS VOID AND THE CONFLICT ENTREPRENEURS NOW
00:20:34STARTING WITH CABLE NEWS WHERE THEY LEARNED THAT OUTRAGE WAS
00:20:37WAS REALLY ADDICTIVE AND IT WAS THE ONLY WAY TO GET US TO WATCH 24 HOURS A DAY BECAUSE THERE
00:20:41WASN'T ENOUGH NEWS. NOW WE GET WE GET SOCIAL MEDIA
00:20:45ALGORITHMS THAT ARE ARE ACUTELY
00:20:49REFINED FOR US INDIVIDUALLY AND
00:20:52AND WILL CONTINUE TO SERVE UP
00:20:54MORE AND MORE EXTREME CONTENT TO KEEP OUR ATTENTION, WHICH THEN
00:20:58LEADS TO THE REMAINING INSTITUTIONS TURNING INTO
00:21:02PERFORMATIVE INSTITUTIONS AS AS
00:21:04AGAIN, YOU WROTE SO WELL IN A
00:21:06TIME TO BUILD AND AND MY MY
00:21:10FAVORITE THING IS TO ASK PEOPLE
00:21:12WHO THEY'RE TO NAME SOME MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO AREN'T FROM
00:21:16THEIR STATE AND EVERYONE CAN DO
00:21:20IT. AND THEY ALL NAME THE SAME FOUR OR FIVE AND THEY'RE WHO YOU
00:21:23THINK THEY ARE. THEY'RE THE MOST EXTREME MEMBERS
00:21:25OF CONGRESS WHO NEVER ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING BUT GET A LOT OF
00:21:29ATTENTION FOR THE STUFF THEY SAY.
00:21:31AND AND IT JUST LEADS TO AN
00:21:35UNHEALTHY UNROOTED NESS WHERE
00:21:37WE'RE BEING FED CON FLICKED THAT
00:21:40GOD SHAPED HOLE IN OUR HEART THAT JONATHAN HAIDT WRITES ABOUT
00:21:44IS NOT BEING FILLED WITH SOMETHING NOBLE. AND SO WE'RE FILLING IT WITH
00:21:48GARBAGE, AND THAT GARBAGE IS
00:21:48MAKING US ALL FEEL REALLY BAD
00:21:52ABOUT THE PEOPLE AROUND US IN A SELFISH WORLD AND I WORLD WHERE
00:21:56WE'VE FORGOTTEN THE WE THERE'S
00:21:58THAT'S A LOT IN A IN A SHORT
00:22:00ANSWER BUT I THINK THAT'S THAT'S
00:22:02THAT'S MY THEORY OF THE CASE. THAT'S HOW WE GOT HERE.
00:22:06IT'S IT'S A DISCOURAGING PICTURE. IT SUGGESTS THAT THIS IS REALLY
00:22:10DISCOURAGING OVERDETERMINED THERE'S A LOT GOING ON AND YET
00:22:13THERE'S A WAY IN THE BOOK THAT YOU TRY TO SUGGEST THAT OUR
00:22:17DIVISIONS ARE NOT AS DEEP AS THEY SEEM. THERE'S ONE OF THE EARLY
00:22:21CHAPTERS IS CALLED THINGS ARE WORSE THAN YOU THINK, AND ONE OF THE LATER CHAPTERS IS CALLED
00:22:24THINGS ARE NOT AS BAD AS YOU THINK. UM, IN IN WHAT WAYS ARE THEY
00:22:29WORSE? IN WHAT WAYS? NOT AS BAD. AND HOW DO YOU THINK ABOUT BALANCING THAT WHICH IS TRUE?
00:22:33HOW BAD ARE THINGS? YEAH, WELL, THE THE BAD THINGS
00:22:37ARE PRETTY BAD AND THAT'S, YOU
00:22:40KNOW, IN THAT CHAPTER I REALLY
00:22:42WANT PEOPLE CLEAR EYED AND I'M A
00:22:47NATURALLY HOPEFUL PERSON. BUT BUT I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO
00:22:51UNDERSTAND THE END, HOW BAD IT IS AND WHERE IT COULD GO,
00:22:53BECAUSE YOU DON'T MAKE CHANGES
00:22:57IF IF YOU DON'T THINK CHANGE NEEDS TO BE MADE.
00:22:59SO I WANT TO MAKE THE CASE EARLY
00:23:01AGAIN, USING THE RESEARCH ON
00:23:04AFFECTIVE POLARIZATION ON CONTEMPT, ON THE THREATS OF
00:23:08VIOLENCE, I REALLY LAY OUT ALL
00:23:11OF THE ACTUAL VIOLENCE THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST TEN YEARS.
00:23:14AND AS YOU GO THROUGH THAT, IT IS A LITTLE DEPRESSING.
00:23:17BUT THERE WILL ALSO BE THINGS THAT YOU'VE FORGOTTEN AND YOU
00:23:21CAN'T BELIEVE YOU FORGOT. OH YEAH, I FORGOT THAT. THAT HAPPENED. RIGHT?
00:23:25AND SO I DO WANT TO SHOCK OUR
00:23:28CONSCIENCE JUST A LITTLE BIT UPFRONT.
00:23:32BUT THEN I WANT TO REMIND PEOPLE
00:23:33THAT WE LIVE IN IN THE GREATEST
00:23:36PERIOD OF TIME IN IN THE WORLD.
00:23:38I MEAN, WE HAVE SO MUCH WE LIVE IN AN AGE OF MIRACLES.
00:23:43YOU KNOW, I HAVE I HAVE TWO SIBLINGS WHO WERE BORN WITH
00:23:46CYSTIC FIBROSIS. THEY WERE THE AVERAGE LIFESPAN
00:23:49OF A CHILD WITH CYSTIC FIBROSIS WHEN THEY WERE BORN IN THE LATE
00:23:52SEVENTIES AND EARLY EIGHTIES WAS.
00:23:57ABOUT 12 YEARS OLD. MY, MY, MY BROTHERS. MY BROTHER WILL TURN 49 THIS YEAR.
00:24:00MY SISTER WILL TURN 47 THIS YEAR. THEY WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO HAVE
00:24:04KIDS. MY MY BROTHER HAS FOUR KIDS.
00:24:07MY SISTER HAS TWO KIDS, ONE OF
00:24:10WHICH ALL HERS. BUT SHE ALMOST DIED GIVING BIRTH TO HER FIRST CHILD.
00:24:14SO MY MY INCREDIBLE WIFE WAS A GESTATIONAL CARRIER FOR MY MY
00:24:19SISTER 100%. THEIR BABY. SHE WAS THE OVEN. AT LEAST THAT'S HOW WE EXPLAINED
00:24:23IT TO OUR LITTLE KIDS.
00:24:25AND AND AND HE'S YOU KNOW, HE'S
00:24:2913 YEARS AND 14 YEARS OLD, 15. OH, MY GOSH. 15 YEARS OLD.
00:24:33AND THERE ARE EVERY DAY WE SEE
00:24:34THESE INCREASED ABLE CHANGES,
00:24:39MEDICINE, GREAT THINGS, POVERTY
00:24:42RATES ARE LOWER THAN THEY'VE EVER BEEN.
00:24:45CHILD POVERTY, EXTREME POVERTY.
00:24:47AND AND THERE'S JUST SO MUCH GOOD IN THE WORLD.
00:24:50AND I ONE OF THE THINGS I WORRY ABOUT AGAINST SOCIAL MEDIA IN
00:24:54OUR KIDS, ESPECIALLY THE BAD STUFF, HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE.
00:24:58BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S IT'S IN FRONT OF US ALL OF THE TIME AND IT'S
00:25:02NOT HEALTHY.
00:25:04WE WE DID NOT EVOLVE TO BE ABLE
00:25:06TO DEAL WITH ALL THE BAD THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THE WORLD.
00:25:10HISTORICALLY, WHEN SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED AND YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT
00:25:13IT WAS GENERALLY WITHIN YOUR GEOGRAPHIC SPHERE WHERE YOU COULD ACTUALLY MAYBE DO
00:25:16SOMETHING POSITIVE, RIGHT.
00:25:18TO HELP OUT A FAMILY OR A NEIGHBOR, SOMEBODY WHO WAS
00:25:22STRUGGLING. THERE'S I MEAN, NOT A LOT YOU
00:25:25CAN DO FOR TERRIBLE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING AND IN UKRAINE OR
00:25:30IN IN ISRAEL, IN GAZA, WHEREVER YOU ARE ON ON THESE.
00:25:33AND SO WHAT DO WE DO?
00:25:35WE JUST GET ANGRIER AND ANGRIER
00:25:37AND ANGRIER AND WE FEEL HELPLESS
00:25:41AND A PSYCHOLOGIST WILL TELL YOU
00:25:45THAT AN INTERNAL LOCUS OF CONTROL VERSUS AN EXTERNAL LOCUS
00:25:48OF CONTROL ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. WHEN WHEN THINGS ARE HAPPENING OUTSIDE OF YOU AND YOU HAVE NO
00:25:52CONTROL OVER IT, IT'S TERRIBLE FOR YOUR MENTAL HEALTH WHEN YOU
00:25:55FEEL EMPOWERED TO ACTUALLY DO
00:25:57SOMETHING THAT INTERNAL LOCUS OF
00:25:59CONTROL, THEN THEN YOU CAN YOU
00:26:02CAN TAKE CHARGE OF YOUR LIFE. YOUR MENTAL HEALTH IS MUCH MORE POSITIVE.
00:26:06AND THIS IS WHY THE VERY BEST THING YOU CAN DO TO HELP WITH
00:26:10POLARIZATION IS TO HELP WITH YOUR MENTAL HEALTH, IS TO GET OFF OF SOCIAL MEDIA.
00:26:14IT'S SPENT MUCH, MUCH LESS TIME ON YOU.
00:26:17I HAVE TO ADMIT, I'M ADDICTED TO TWITTER.
00:26:20I, I, I DELETED IT OFF OF MY
00:26:22PHONE IN DECEMBER OF LAST YEAR. THE BEST THING I EVER DID FOR A
00:26:25WEEK AFTER THAT, I WOULD PULL MY PHONE OUT AND I WOULD PUSH A
00:26:28BUTTON THAT NO LONGER EXISTED ON MY PHONE 40 TIMES A DAY AT LEAST
00:26:31LIKE A A RAT IN A FENTANYL WATER
00:26:36CAGE, JUST PUSHING THAT BUTTON TO GET MY NEXT HIT.
00:26:41AND ONCE, ONCE I ONCE I GOT RID OF THAT, MY MENTAL HEALTH IMPROVED.
00:26:44I WAS ABLE TO I STARTED READING LONG FORM AGAIN.
00:26:48I JUST FINISHED THE COUNT OF MONTE CRISTO, SOMETHING I WOULD
00:26:52NOT HAVE DONE A YEAR AGO. I, I WROTE A BOOK, SOMETHING I
00:26:56WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO. I GOT MY FOCUS BACK. I GOT MY FAMILY BACK.
00:27:00I BECAME A BETTER HUMAN BEING, A BETTER GOVERNOR.
00:27:04THERE ARE LOTS OF THINGS WE CAN DO, BUT THAT'S THAT'S THE FIRST ONE. IF WE IF WE WANT TO GET OUR
00:27:07COUNTRY BACK, TELL ME WHAT THIS PERIOD THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING,
00:27:10THIS PATH YOU'RE DESCRIBING IS LOOKED LIKE IN EUROPE PROFESSION.
00:27:14YOU'VE BEEN IN ELECTED OFFICE FOR MORE THAN 20 YEARS.
00:27:17HOW'S POLITICS DIFFERENT THAN IT
00:27:19WAS BEFORE THE ERA YOU'RE LAYING OUT HERE?
00:27:23IT'S IT'S MUCH LESS ENJOYABLE
00:27:29WHEN I, YOU KNOW, WORK, I'M I
00:27:31CAME TO WASHINGTON, D.C. WHEN I WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD.
00:27:34MY UNCLE WHO LIVED OUT HERE, WE NEVER TRAVELED, COULDN'T AFFORD TO TRAVEL.
00:27:38HE WORKED FOR THE GOVERNMENT AND HE PAID FOR US TO COME AND VISIT
00:27:41AND TOOK US TO THE MONUMENTS,
00:27:44WENT TO MONTICELLO, CHANGED MY
00:27:46LIFE, AND I KNEW THAT I LOVED THIS STUFF.
00:27:50AND AND SO I READ THE FOUNDERS, I STUDIED POLITICAL SCIENCE.
00:27:53I WENT TO WASHINGTON AND LEE LAW
00:27:56SCHOOL HERE IN VIRGINIA AND AND
00:27:58KNEW THAT SOMEDAY I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS. NEVER AT THIS LEVEL.
00:28:02I WANTED TO SERVE ON THE CITY COUNCIL IN MY LITTLE TOWN OF A THOUSAND PEOPLE, WHICH I GOT TO
00:28:05DO AND THOUGHT THAT WAS IT.
00:28:06I MADE IT AND SO I LOVED IT.
00:28:10I LOVE SOLVING PROBLEMS. I LOVED THE DEBATE.
00:28:12AND GOVERNOR HERBERT, MY
00:28:15PREDECESSOR, WHEN HE ASKED ME TO BE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR,
00:28:19INCREDIBLE HUMAN BEING, WONDERFUL GOVERNOR.
00:28:22AND WE WE GOT TO WORK TOGETHER.
00:28:24I BECAME LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.
00:28:27IN 2013 NINE AND I'D IT WAS WE
00:28:30HAD A LOT OF FUN. WE REALLY DID. WE WORKED TOGETHER.
00:28:34WE GOT TO SOLVE PROBLEMS. I THINK IF HE WERE HERE, PAUL EDWARDS IS HERE.
00:28:37PAUL ALSO WORKED FOR GOVERNOR HERBERT. HE WOULD TELL YOU THAT THE LAST FEW YEARS OF BEING GOVERNOR WERE
00:28:41NOT MUCH FUN. AND IT'S THE IT'S THE GREATEST
00:28:45JOB IN ALL OF POLITICS. I STILL BELIEVE THAT I WILL I
00:28:49WILL BELIEVE THAT TO TO MY DEATH.
00:28:51AND YET, GOVERNORS WHO KIND OF BRIDGED THAT TIME WILL TELL YOU
00:28:55THAT IT WENT FROM FROM, HEY, WE
00:28:57CAN WE CAN FIGURE THAT STUFF OUT. WE CAN GET STUFF DONE.
00:29:01OF COURSE, THERE'S A LOT OF ANIMOSITY AND IT'S ALL FAIR GAME
00:29:04TO IT'S JUST DARK AND THE HATE,
00:29:07THE THREATS ARE CONSTANTLY OUT THERE.
00:29:10IT'S IT'S PRETTY IT I'M BEING A
00:29:13LITTLE TOO HONEST OUT THERE, BUT IT'S PRETTY AWFUL.
00:29:17YOU KNOW WE EVEN IN UTAH, EVEN
00:29:19AT EVENING, WE HAVE A SENSE FROM HERE, FROM THIS DISTANCE THAT
00:29:22UTAH IS SORT OF LIKE LIVING IN THE 1950S. YEAH. YEAH.
00:29:25WELL, IN SOME WAYS I THINK THAT THAT'S TRUE.
00:29:28IT'S BETTER IN UTAH THAN THAN ANYWHERE ELSE FOR SURE.
00:29:32STILL, IT'S STILL. IT IS, BUT AS YOU KNOW, WE'RE
00:29:35WE'RE PART OF THIS NATION. IS THE NATION DIGRESSES THERE'S
00:29:39A DIGRESSION THAT'S HAPPENING THERE AS WELL AND AND YET I KNOW
00:29:43THIS SOUNDS SO NEGATIVE AND I JUST I NEED TO TELL YOU, THOUGH,
00:29:47SOMETHING'S HAPPENING, LIKE IT'S
00:29:51CHANGING OUT THERE.
00:29:53AS I TRAVEL THE COUNTRY, WHICH I'M DOING. WE WERE JUST IN MICHIGAN,
00:29:57TENNESSEE, D.C. WE WERE IN NEW YORK LAST WEEK.
00:30:01PHILADELPHIA, THE PEOPLE ARE ARE
00:30:05ARE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT. THEY'RE LOGGING OFF OF SOCIAL MEDIA.
00:30:09I LIKEN IT TO KIND OF A, YOU KNOW, THE HEALTH FOOD FOOD CRAZE
00:30:13WHERE WE MANY OF US HAVE STOPPED
00:30:17EATING FOOD THAT IS DELICIOUS
00:30:19AND SO GOOD AND STARTED BUYING
00:30:21MORE EXPENSIVE FOOD THAT TASTES
00:30:23TERRIBLE BECAUSE BECAUSE WE KNOW
00:30:25IT'S BETTER FOR US AND WE WE WE
00:30:27MAY FEEL GOOD FOR A SHORT TIME
00:30:30WITH THE BAD STUFF, BUT WE KNOW IT'S IT'S NOT HEALTHY.
00:30:32SO WE'RE WE'RE TRYING TO TAKE CONTROL. SAME THING IS HAPPENING WITH OUR BRAINS.
00:30:36MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE LOGGING OFF OF SOCIAL MEDIA. THEY'RE LOOKING FOR CANDIDATES
00:30:40WHO ARE LESS DIVISIVE. THEY'RE TIRED OF WHAT'S HAPPENING OUT THERE.
00:30:43AND I FEEL THE BACKLASH COMING TO THE CONTENT.
00:30:47AND AND SO I DON'T I DON'T WANT TO END NEGATIVELY.
00:30:49I LIKE I'M ENJOYING BEING GOVERNOR NOW THAN I DID TWO
00:30:52YEARS AGO MORE NOW BECAUSE BECAUSE I'M STARTING TO SEE MORE
00:30:56AND MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE WHO ARE
00:30:59DESPERATE FOR SOMETHING BETTER. SO TELL US WHAT THAT CAN LOOK LIKE.
00:31:03HOW DO WE TAKE THIS OFF RAMP POLITICALLY AND PERSONALLY?
00:31:05SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF WAYS.
00:31:09THE WE ALWAYS HAVE THESE DISCUSSION AND IT'S ALL KIND OF
00:31:12AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, AND I'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A MINUTE
00:31:15BECAUSE I DO THINK THAT THAT'S IMPORTANT. BUT BUT I'M I'M A BIG BELIEVER
00:31:19IN AGENCY THAT ALL OF US HAVE
00:31:22AGENCY AND WE INDIVIDUALLY GET TO MAKE CHOICES. AGAIN, THAT INTERNAL LOCUS OF
00:31:26CONTROL.
00:31:26I ALSO BELIEVE THAT IN MY FAITH,
00:31:30THERE'S A THERE'S A SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS THE NATURAL MAN IS AN ENEMY TO GOD.
00:31:34AND HAS BEEN SINCE THE BEGINNING.
00:31:36AND I THINK FROM A CONSERVATIVE
00:31:38STANDPOINT, MOST OF US BELIEVE
00:31:40THAT HUMAN NATURE LEFT ON
00:31:44TEMPORARY AND WITHOUT THESE FORMATIVE INSTITUTIONS WOULD LEAD US TO SOME VERY DARK AND
00:31:49BAD PLACES LIKE WE'RE INTENSELY SELFISH.
00:31:51HUMAN BEINGS ARE WORSE. THE IMPULSES ARE THERE FOR ALL
00:31:55OF US, AND AND WE NEED TO TO
00:31:57WORK CONSTANTLY TO OVERCOME THAT.
00:32:01AND, AND, AND THESE INSTITUTIONS HELP US DO THAT. AND ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT
00:32:05INSTITUTIONS IS THE INSTITUTION OF THE FAMILY.
00:32:07THE MORE LOCAL THE INSTITUTION, THE BETTER.
00:32:10THE MORE FORMATIVE OF IT IS. AND ONE OF MY CONCERNS THAT I
00:32:13TALK ABOUT IN THE BOOK IS THAT
00:32:17IF YOU GO BACK, YOU KNOW, TEN, 15 YEARS AGO, ONLY ABOUT 6% OF
00:32:20AMERICANS HAD STOPPED TALKING TO A FAMILY MEMBER OR A CLOSE
00:32:24PERSONAL FRIEND BECAUSE OF POLITICS. TODAY, THAT NUMBER IS NORTH OF 26%.
00:32:28AND RISING RAPIDLY.
00:32:30AND SO I MAKE THE CASE THAT IF
00:32:33WE WANT TO SAVE OUR COUNTRY, WE ACTUALLY HAVE TO FOCUS MORE AT
00:32:35THE LOCAL LEVEL, THE HYPER LOCAL LEVEL, AND THAT IS THAT WE WE
00:32:39HAVE TO STOP WRITING OFF OUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS
00:32:42BECAUSE THEY VOTED FOR THE WRONG PERSON. NOW, NOW THERE ARE I'M NOT
00:32:47TELLING PEOPLE THEY HAVE TO STAY IN A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP.
00:32:49WHAT I AM TELLING YOU IS THAT 95% OF THE RELATIONSHIP DO YOU
00:32:52THINK ARE TOXIC OR NOT, THAT
00:32:54THIS IS ONE OF THE TERRIBLE
00:32:57MISTRUTHS THAT HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED, THAT ANYBODY WHO
00:33:00DISAGREES WITH ME IS MY ENEMY,
00:33:03INCLUDING FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS.
00:33:05AND SO I TALK ABOUT HOW TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS AT A HYPER
00:33:09LOCAL LEVEL. I THINK WE NEED TO FOCUS MORE ON
00:33:13COMMUNITIES, ON SERVICE AND GIVING BACK.
00:33:15I BELIEVE THAT COMMUNITY IS THE ANSWER TO ALL OF OUR SOCIAL
00:33:19PROBLEMS RIGHT NOW. THAT WHEN WE WHEN WE GET MORE
00:33:24ENGAGED, WHEN WE SERVE AND GIVE BACK IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, STOP
00:33:28WORRYING ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN WASHINGTON, D.C. AND START WORRYING ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING
00:33:31RIGHT NEXT DOOR. WHEN I WAS STUDYING POLITICAL SCIENTISTS, THE FIRST THING THEY
00:33:35TAUGHT US WAS THAT ALL POLITICS IS LOCAL.
00:33:38WHEN A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMES TO YOUR TOWN, THEY WOULD LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR TOWN
00:33:42SO THEY COULD FEEL LIKE YOU WOULD FEEL LIKE THEY KNEW YOU,
00:33:46LIKE THEY WERE PART OF YOU. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT ANYMORE. ALL POLITICS IS NATIONAL.
00:33:48IF YOU GO TO A SCHOOL BOARD MEETING, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING CRAZY THAT HAPPENED
00:33:52TEN STATES AWAY. IT WERE AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL.
00:33:55WE'VE GOT TO GET BACK TO THE TO THE LOCAL LEVEL.
00:33:58THAT'S HOW WE FIX THIS. AND AND THIS IS THE SECOND PART.
00:34:02WE DO NEED POLITICIANS TO TO TRY
00:34:05TO BETTER MODEL THIS BEHAVIOR. WE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THE NATIONAL GOVERNORS
00:34:09ASSOCIATION. WE WE STARTED A NONPROFIT CALLED DISAGREE BETTER.
00:34:13THEY'RE DOING INCREDIBLE WORK. WE FILMED ADS TOGETHER WITH
00:34:15GOVERNORS, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS STAND.
00:34:19HANFORD STUDIED THESE ADS. THEY'RE DEPOLARIZATION LAB.
00:34:23THEY FOUND THAT THEY HAVE A DEPOLARIZATION EFFECT ON THE
00:34:253000 PEOPLE THEY TESTED THESE ADS ON. AND THEY ALSO AND THIS WAS A
00:34:29LITTLE BIT UNEXPECTED THE THE
00:34:33INCREASE A PERSON'S FEELINGS OF
00:34:37TRUST IN OUR DEMOCRATIC NORMS.
00:34:39AND SO IT'S GOOD FOR DEMOCRACY
00:34:42TO SEE PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE AISLE TALKING TO
00:34:45EACH OTHER AND, WORKING TOGETHER ON PROBLEMS. SO NOW DISAGREE BETTER IS
00:34:48WORKING WITH MEMBERS OF CONGRESS. WE'RE FILMING ADS ALL THE TIME.
00:34:52HOPEFULLY YOU'LL BE SEEING MORE OF THOSE, NOT JUST ON SOCIAL MEDIA, BUT WE ACTUALLY HAVE SOME
00:34:56FUNDING NOW TO PUT THEM ON TV AND WE WANT A SUPER BOWL AD.
00:34:58SO IF YOU HAVE ANY BIG DONORS THAT YOU KNOW, LET US KNOW. WE LOVE YOUR HELP.
00:35:03BUT THOSE ARE THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TO GET IT. WHAT IS THAT LATTER PART LOOK
00:35:06LIKE AS POLITICS? HOW DOES IT FOR A POLITICIAN TO
00:35:11MAKE THIS CASE, TO TRY TO PLAY THIS ROLE?
00:35:14IS IT EFFECTIVE WITH VOTERS? WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE TO PEOPLE
00:35:18TRYING TO RUN FOR OFFICE? YEAH, SO WE TWO THINGS.
00:35:23WHEN WHEN WHEN MY WIFE AND I WHEN ABBY AND I DECIDED THAT WE
00:35:25WERE GOING TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR, WE TRIED SOMETHING CRAZY.
00:35:31WE A FRIEND OF MINE HAD HAD HAD
00:35:33WORKED ON THE ROMNEY CAMPAIGN IN 2012, AND HE CAME BACK VERY
00:35:38DISCOURAGED AND HE SAID, I HATED
00:35:40IT HE SAID BOTH CANDIDATES SPENT $1,000,000,000. AND YES, THE QUESTION IS OUR
00:35:44COUNTRY BETTER OFF AT THE END OF THAT CAMPAIGN THAN AT THE BEGINNING?
00:35:48$2 BILLION WERE SPENT. WERE WE BETTER OFF AS COUNTRY?
00:35:51AND HE MADE A PRETTY PASSIONATE CASE THAT WE WERE NOT. WE GOT THE SAME PRESIDENT.
00:35:54WE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN IF THEY'D
00:35:56SPENT $0 AND THEY SPENT $2
00:36:00BILLION TRYING TO DIVIDE US AND SO WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT
00:36:04COULD WE RUN A CAMPAIGN WHERE
00:36:06EVEN IF WE LOST, AT LEAST THE
00:36:08STATE WOULD BE BETTER OFF AT THE END OF THAT CAMPAIGN? IS THAT IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?
00:36:12AND HE SAID, WHAT IF WHAT IF,
00:36:14YOU KNOW, MITT ROMNEY HAD SPENT
00:36:17$1,000,000,000 TO YOU KNOW, TO
00:36:20BUILD PARKS IN INNER CITY
00:36:22CHICAGO AND, YOU KNOW, JUST TO
00:36:24DO GOOD, WHAT WOULD THAT HAVE LOOK LIKE TO DO?
00:36:27SERVICE USE OF VOLUNTEER? YEAH. YOU HAD TENS OF THOUSANDS OF VOLUNTEERS.
00:36:31WHAT IF WE USE THEM TO SERVE
00:36:32INSTEAD OF KNOCK DOORS AND AND
00:36:35DO TERRIBLE FUNDRAISING EMAILS?
00:36:39WHAT WOULD THAT HAVE LOOKED LIKE? SO WE DECIDED TO DO THAT AND WE
00:36:41SAID WE WOULD NOT RUN ANY NEGATIVE ADS. WE'D ONLY RUN POSITIVE ADS.
00:36:45AND WE WOULD WE GOT MY DAD'S RV,
00:36:48WE WENT TO VISIT ALL 248 CITIES
00:36:52IN UTAH, AND WE DID SERVICE
00:36:55PROJECTS EVERYWHERE WE WENT. WE HAD OUR VOLUNTEERS SHOW UP TO DO SERVICE PROJECTS.
00:36:58WE PAINTED FENCE IS WE WE SERVED
00:37:02FOOD AT A HOMELESS SHELTER.
00:37:04WE WE CUT GRASS AT A BALLPARK.
00:37:08WE JUST IT WAS JUST, HEY, LET'S
00:37:10TRY POSITIVE THINGS AND AS AS
00:37:14THE THIS WAS A PRIMARY AND AS
00:37:16THE PRIMARY APPROACHED IT, THERE WERE FOUR OF US ON THE PRIMARY BALLOT.
00:37:20ONE OF THEM FORMER GOVERNOR OF
00:37:22UTAH, A BILLIONAIRE, 100% NAME
00:37:26ID, VERY POPULAR GOVERNOR JON HUNTSMAN.
00:37:29HE'D RUN FOR PRESIDENT. HE HAD BEEN THE AMBASSADOR TO CHINA, BEEN THE AMBASSADOR TO
00:37:34RUSSIA. WHEN HE JUMPED INTO THE RACE. WE THOUGHT, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO LOSE.
00:37:38BUT THE THE GOOD NEWS IS WE DID A BUNCH OF SERVICE PROJECTS AND
00:37:41WE FEEL REALLY GOOD ABOUT ABOUT THIS LAST DEBATE WHERE WE'RE ON
00:37:46STAGE. I HAVE ONE MINUTE. I'M TAKING ALL THE INCOME BECAUSE WE WERE WINNING.
00:37:50WE WERE SHOCKED THAT WE WERE UP IN THE POLLS. BUT ALL THE NEGATIVE ADS STARTED
00:37:53POURING IN AND. WE COULD SEE IT ERODING OUR, YOU
00:37:57KNOW, OUR OUR NUMBERS EVERY WEEK
00:37:59STARTED GOING DOWN A NOTCH. AND WE KNEW IT WAS GOING TO BE REALLY CLOSE.
00:38:03I GET ONE MINUTE AT THE END OF THIS DEBATE. SO ANYTHING I WANTED, I HAD MY MY ONE MINUTE PREPARED.
00:38:08I JUST SCRAPPED IT AND I SAID, LOOK, YOU GUYS, IF I HAVE TO SAY
00:38:12NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT THESE THREE GENTLEMEN TO BE YOUR
00:38:15GOVERNOR, THEN THEN I DON'T DESERVE TO BE YOUR GOVERNOR.
00:38:18AND THAT WENT VIRAL EVERYWHERE I
00:38:22WENT, PEOPLE SAID TO ME I WASN'T GOING TO VOTE FOR YOU, BUT WHEN
00:38:26YOU SAID THAT, I CHANGED MY MIND AND DECIDED THAT I WAS GOING TO
00:38:30VOTE FOR YOU AND WE WON SO I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. THAT'S UTAH.
00:38:33IT'S THE 1950S IN UTAH THAT WORKS THERE. SO WHEN WE STARTED DOING THESE
00:38:38ADS WITH DISAGREE BETTER, WE KNEW THEY HAD A DEPOLARIZATION
00:38:42EFFECT. WE WERE GRATEFUL FOR THAT. WE ASKED THEM TO DO A NEW STUDY
00:38:46AND THE STUDY WAS AROUND PEOPLE'S RESPONSES, HOW THEY
00:38:49FELT ABOUT THE CANDIDATES. HOW DID REPUBLICANS FEEL ABOUT
00:38:53THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE? HOW DID REPUBLICANS FEEL ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE?
00:38:56AND VICE VERSA?
00:38:59WHAT WE FOUND WAS A SIGNIFICANT
00:39:01AND MEASURABLE INCREASE IN FAVORABILITY TOWARDS BOTH
00:39:05CANDIDATE, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU WERE A REPUBLICAN OR A
00:39:08DEMOCRAT, TO SEE A POSITIVE MESSAGE OF TWO PEOPLE WORKING
00:39:11TOGETHER, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAD EXTREME DISAGREEMENTS ON POLICY ISSUES.
00:39:15AND THE REASON THAT I HOPED THAT WOULD BE TRUE IS I WANTED SOME
00:39:19SCIENCE BEHIND IT. BUT BUT I WANTED TO REALLY MAKE
00:39:23THE CASE TO MY FELLOW POLITICIANS THAT YOU SHOULD DO THIS FOR THE GOOD OF COUNTRY,
00:39:27FOR THE GOOD OF HUMANITY, FOR THE GOOD OF YOUR OWN SOUL.
00:39:31BUT IF YOU WON'T DO IT FOR ANY OF THOSE REASONS, DO IT BECAUSE
00:39:35IN A MACHIAVELLIAN SENSE IT WILL HELP YOU GET ELECTED.
00:39:37AND AND STANFORD AGREED THAT
00:39:40THAT THESE MESSAGES IS CAN HELP YOU GET ELECTED.
00:39:44SO WE'RE GOING TO KEEP MAKING THAT CASE AND HOPEFULLY GET SOME MONEY BEHIND US.
00:39:48DO PEOPLE FIND IT PERSUASIVE? YOU TELL A STORY IN THE BOOK ABOUT TRYING TO PERSUADE FORMER
00:39:52PRESIDENT BIDEN TO PARDON DONALD TRUMP.
00:39:56UM, VERY MUCH ALONG THESE LINES, A KIND OF THAT IT WOULD ACTUALLY
00:39:58BE WELL RECEIVED ULTIMATELY. AND THAT IT WOULD IMPROVE THE
00:40:02POLITICAL CULTURE. TELL US ABOUT THAT AND IT WENT
00:40:06AND HOW HE RESPONDED AND HOW YOU UNDERSTAND THAT. YES.
00:40:10SO HE CAME TO VISIT UTAH.
00:40:12WE MET HIM ON THE TARMAC, WHICH,
00:40:15BY THE WAY, IS SOMETHING THAT
00:40:17EVERY GOVERNOR AND PRESIDENT HAS DONE FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL.
00:40:21AND I GOT KILLED FOR IT, LIKE I SHOULDN'T EVEN SHOW UP TO
00:40:25WELCOME THE PRESIDENT. SO IT JUST AGAIN, JUST A LITTLE
00:40:27FLAVOR, EVEN IN UTAH AND HE
00:40:31ASKED ABBY AND I IF WE WANT TO RIDE WITH HIM TO A HOTEL.
00:40:35IT WAS A QUICK RIDE WAS ABOUT 10 MINUTES. SO WE GOT OF COURSE, IF YOU GET A CHANCE TO RIDE IN THE BEAST,
00:40:39THE PRESIDENTIAL LIMOUSINE, JUST SAY YES.
00:40:41IT'S A IT'S IT'S REALLY COOL.
00:40:43AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO THE PRESIDENT IS. JUST DO IT.
00:40:46SO WE GET IN. WE WE DRIVE. WE HAVE A REALLY DELIGHTFUL
00:40:51CONVERSATION AND WE WE KNEW THE
00:40:53PRESIDENT WE'D WORKED ON SOME ISSUES TOGETHER AND WE GOT THERE
00:40:57AND SO ENGROSSED IN THE
00:40:59CONVERSATION THAT WE I MEAN, WE JUST EXPECTED THAT WE WOULD BE
00:41:02USHERED OUT AND HE SAID, NO, NO, I'LL STAY. LET'S LET'S KEEP TALKING.
00:41:06I DON'T KNOW. WE WERE IN THE CAR FOR AT LEAST 30 MINUTES, MAYBE LONGER, MAYBE
00:41:1045 MINUTES, JUST SITTING THERE WITH THE CAR RUNNING, POLLUTING
00:41:14THE AIR. AND IT WAS A IT WAS IT WAS A WONDERFUL CONVERSATION.
00:41:18AND I JUST, YOU KNOW, HAD SOME THINGS I WANTED TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT.
00:41:21WE GOT THROUGH ALL THOSE AND I'M JUST LIKE, SCREW IT.
00:41:24MR. PRESIDENT, I HAVE A CRAZY THING TO ASK.
00:41:26I REALLY THINK THAT YOU SHOULD YOU SHOULD PARDON FORMER
00:41:30PRESIDENT TRUMP AND I EXPECTED
00:41:33HIM TO DISMISS ME JUST RIGHT OUT
00:41:36OF THE GATE AND IT WAS IT WAS
00:41:38THE EXACT OPPOSITE.
00:41:40HE HE GOT VERY SERIOUS AND HE KIND OF LOOKED AT ME LIKE LIKE,
00:41:44HOW DID YOU KNOW?
00:41:47AND HE SAID HE SAID, YOU KNOW,
00:41:50I'VE BEEN SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING THIS.
00:41:53IN FACT, MY WIFE AND I STAYED UP VERY LATE THE OTHER NIGHT TALKING ABOUT THIS.
00:41:57WE WERE IN BED TOGETHER. IT CAME UP. WE'RE GOING BACK AND FORTH. HE'S YOU KNOW, HE WAS HE WAS
00:42:02VERY I MEAN, IT WAS VERY CLEAR THAT HE WASN'T HUMORING ME BECAUSE I'D ASK HIM ABOUT A
00:42:05BUNCH OF OTHER THINGS WHERE HE DID NOT HUMOR ME.
00:42:08AND BUT BUT ON THIS ONE, HE WAS HE WAS VERY SERIOUS.
00:42:11AND HE SAID, BUT HE SAID, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, LIKE I.
00:42:14I JUST THINK THAT THE PEOPLE,
00:42:17THE PEOPLE DEMAND JUSTICE AND I
00:42:20REALLY WORRY THAT IT WOULD BE
00:42:23POORLY RECEIVED AND, YOU KNOW, READING BETWEEN THE LINES, IT
00:42:27WAS KIND OF ESPECIALLY IN MY PARTY, YOU KNOW HIS BASE WOULDN'T WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN
00:42:31SUPPORTIVE OF THAT. AND I LOOK, I UNDERSTAND THAT
00:42:33FOR SURE.
00:42:35BUT BUT I FELT LIKE THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT COULD HAVE BEEN
00:42:39IN HISTORIC MOMENT, COULD HAVE REALLY CHANGED THE COURSE OF DIALOG.
00:42:43HE DID SAY TO ME, HE SAID, I PROMISE YOU, I WILL SPEND MORE
00:42:46TIME THINKING ABOUT IT AND AND
00:42:50OBVIOUSLY HE DECIDED NOT TO. HE HE PARDONED A LOT OF OTHER
00:42:54PEOPLE. BUT BUT, BUT NOT AND NOT THE PRESIDENT.
00:42:58THAT, IN A WAY, DESCRIBES WHAT HAD WHAT YOU DESCRIBED THE
00:43:00BEGINNING OF OUR CONVERSATION AS A KIND OF MARKET FAILURE IN THE
00:43:04POLITICAL OR AT LEAST YOU SEEMED TO THINK OF IT AS A MARKET
00:43:06FAILURE, THAT THAT A CHANGE OF
00:43:10ATTITUDE BE WOULD BE WELL RECEIVED.
00:43:11BUT POLITICIANS DON'T THINK SO.
00:43:14UM, HOW DOES HOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT MARKET FAILURE?
00:43:19WHY IS IT THAT WE DON'T SEE AN
00:43:21EXCEPTION TO THE RULE THAT PEOPLE ARE EXHAUSTED BY WHY
00:43:25ISN'T SOMEONE TRYING THAT IN A BIG WAY?
00:43:29YEAH I MEAN, WELL, I THINK I
00:43:31THINK SOME PEOPLE ARE TRYING IT I MEAN, THERE ARE POCKETS OF
00:43:34THIS HAPPENING AND WE SEE THEM AND WE ENCOURAGE IT.
00:43:39THE FOR ONE REASON IT GOES BACK
00:43:42TO AN EARLIER ANSWER THAT I GAVE, AND THAT IS THAT THE
00:43:46POLITICS IS IS SO HARD RIGHT NOW THAT A LOT OF THE A LOT OF
00:43:50PEOPLE WHO WOULD TRY THIS JUST
00:43:52DON'T KNOW THAT WORTH IT TO EVEN
00:43:54EVEN GET ENGAGED AND THAT THAT
00:43:56CONCERNS ME THAT WE NEED A LOT
00:44:00OF REALLY GOOD PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE GREAT AT THIS HAVE JUST
00:44:04DECIDED. YEAH, NOT NOW. NOT IT'S TOO HARD ON MY FAMILY. IT'S TOO UGLY OUT THERE.
00:44:07I DON'T WANT TO SUBMIT TO THIS AND SO I THINK THAT'S CERTAINLY ONE OF IT.
00:44:12WE'RE ATTRACTING SOME OF THE
00:44:14WRONG PEOPLE I THINK WE HAVE A STRUCTURAL PROBLEM.
00:44:17I THINK THAT THE WAY THAT WE CHOOSE CANDIDATES CERTAINLY
00:44:22TENDS THE THE EXTREMES OF BOTH
00:44:24PARTIES GET A BIGGER SAY IN IN
00:44:26IN WHO BECOMES THE NOMINEES FOR OUR PARTY.
00:44:30YOU KNOW, THERE'S THERE IS AN ARGUMENT OUT THERE, ONE THAT
00:44:34THAT I'M OPEN TO THAT THE GERRYMANDER RING HAVING FEWER
00:44:38DISTRICTS THAT ARE MORE EVENLY DIVIDED HAS MADE IT VERY
00:44:42DIFFICULT. AND FOR FOR THAT TYPE OF MESSAGE
00:44:44POTENTIALLY TO TO PLAY OUT ALTHOUGH I WILL JUST SAY I THINK
00:44:48THE GERRYMANDERING PROBLEM IS A PROBLEM, BUT NOT NEARLY AS BIG
00:44:51AS IT'S IT'S NOT EVEN MAYBE IN THE TOP FIVE OR SIX, BUT BUT
00:44:56THERE ARE LOTS OF STRUCTURAL ISSUES THAT I THINK MAKE IT MAKE
00:44:59IT DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO TO TO
00:45:02TRY TO WANT TO ENGAGE. MOSTLY, I JUST THINK THAT THE
00:45:06POLITICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX IS THE MOST COWARDLY OF THE
00:45:09INDUSTRIAL COMPLEXES AND THAT WHAT HAPPENS IS IF SOMETHING IS
00:45:14SUCCESSFUL, THEN EVERYONE ELSE
00:45:15KIND OF DOES IT AND NEGATIVE
00:45:19CAMPAIGNING WORKED. AND SO PEOPLE STARTED TO DO IT.
00:45:21NOW I DO THINK THAT WE DID GO
00:45:24THROUGH A PERIOD OF TIME AND WE'RE STILL IN THAT TIME WHERE A
00:45:27LOT OF PEOPLE WANTED THAT.
00:45:29YOU KNOW, WE MY PARTY NOMINATED
00:45:31THE NICEST GUY IN THE WORLD IN
00:45:342012 AND AND HE WAS VILIFIED.
00:45:36YOU KNOW, JOE BIDEN SAID THAT
00:45:38MITT ROMNEY WANTED TO PUT BLACK
00:45:40PEOPLE IN CHAINS AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE WERE GOING TO PUSH GRANDMA
00:45:44OFF THE CLIFF AND TAKE AWAY YOUR HEALTH CARE AND AND HE'S A
00:45:47CORPORATE HE'S AN EVIL HUMAN BEING.
00:45:50AND SO I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP
00:45:52SAW THAT AND SAID, OH, IS THIS
00:45:54IS THE GAME I CAN DO THIS BETTER THAN THEY DID.
00:45:58AND AND HE WAS RIGHT AND AND
00:46:02THERE WAS A MOMENT WHERE MAYBE NOT MOST AMERICANS, BUT A SIGNIFICANT PART OF AMERICA WAS
00:46:06LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TIRED OF THIS. JUST THROW A BRICK THROUGH THE WINDOW. LET'S GO.
00:46:10AND I THINK THAT'S CHANGING. I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE
00:46:14ARE TIRED. THERE'S YOU KNOW, WE CALL THEM
00:46:17THE SILENT MAJORITY. WE NOW REFER TO THEM AS THE EXHAUSTED MAJORITY OUT THERE WHO
00:46:20DESPERATELY WANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
00:46:23AND SO I THINK 28 YOU MIGHT SEE IT.
00:46:25I REALLY DO. I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO WHO
00:46:30RUN WHO RUN ON A ON THE CONCEPT
00:46:35OF OF THAT WE'RE ALL AMERICANS,
00:46:37THAT WE WERE BETTER THAN THE
00:46:40POLITICS OF THE LAST 10 TO 20 YEARS.
00:46:44AND, UH, AND AND YOU'LL, YOU'LL SEE PEOPLE RALLY TO THEIR THEIR CAUSE.
00:46:48WELL, I DO WANT TO OPEN THINGS UP TO FOLKS IN THE ROOM, SO THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU MIGHT WANT
00:46:51TO ASK. AND AS YOU'RE THINKING, I'LL PUT ONE MORE QUESTION TO IT.
00:46:55OF THE VARIOUS, UH, OFF RAMPS
00:46:57YOU PROPOSE IN THE BOOK, IF YOU
00:47:00COULD, IF YOU COULD GET AMERICANS TO TAKE ONE,
00:47:04ESPECIALLY SERIOUSLY, WHAT'S THE ONE THING YOU WANT PEOPLE TO WALK AWAY WITH AND TRY TO DO IN
00:47:09THEIR LIVES AS CITIZENS, IN THEIR FAMILIES, IN THEIR COMMUNITIES?
00:47:12YEAH, WELL, I MEAN, IF I COULD WAVE A MAGIC WAND, THE SOCIAL
00:47:16MEDIA, ONE WOULD BE THE ONE.
00:47:19BUT SINCE WE'VE COVERED THAT, DO
00:47:21THINK THAT THE THE SERVICE PIECE IS A BIG ONE.
00:47:25I'VE OFTEN SAID IF I COULD CHANGE ONE THING ABOUT OUR COUNTRY TODAY, IT WOULD BE TO
00:47:31IMPLEMENT A NATIONAL SERVICE REQUIREMENT. I JUST BELIEVE THAT THAT SERVICE
00:47:35CHANGES US.
00:47:37IT CHANGES OUR HEARTS.
00:47:39IT IT IT GIVES US A ROOTEDNESS
00:47:43TOWARDS OUR COMMUNITY, THE PEOPLE THAT WE SERVE WITH IT.
00:47:46IT'S REALLY HARD TO HATE UP CLOSE. IT'S IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS
00:47:49THAT THAT I THINK UTAH IS STILL DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE.
00:47:53WE LEAD THE NATION IN SERVICE
00:47:55AND VOLUNTEER ISM EVERY YEAR.
00:47:58LEAD THE NATION IN CHARITABLE GIVING EVERY YEAR.
00:48:01IT HELPS TO BUILD THOSE MUSCLES
00:48:03OF COMMUNITY AND AND IT JUST I
00:48:08DON'T KNOW. IT'S JUST IT'S JUST GOOD FOR OUR SOULS AND THE PLACES WHERE THAT HAPPENS.
00:48:14WE'RE DOING MORE OF THAT NOW BECAUSE, AGAIN, THE INSTITUTE,
00:48:17AS THEY'RE TRADITIONALLY LED TO
00:48:18SERVICE OUR ARE FAILING
00:48:24DISAPPEARING. I DON'T KNOW. DO WE HAVE ANY ROTARIANS IN HERE?
00:48:27PLEASE RAISE YOUR HANDS MY ROTARIANS. DING.
00:48:31ALL RIGHT. OKAY, GUYS. SEE, THAT'S WE WE WE NEED MORE OF THAT.
00:48:35BUT I.
00:48:38I WHETHER IT'S THE MILITARY AGAIN, MILITARY MUCH LESS
00:48:43POLARIZED PEOPLE HAVE SERVED IN THE MILITARY TOGETHER. THEY SEE EACH OTHER VERY
00:48:47DIFFERENTLY. YOU KNOW, I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE AS A MISSIONARY FOR FOR
00:48:50MY FAITH MEXICO FOR FOR TWO YEARS WHERE I LEARNED THE
00:48:55LANGUAGE, LEARNING THE CULTURE. I MEAN, PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY
00:48:57DIFFERENT THAN US COME BACK WITH A WITH A, YOU KNOW, A DIFFERENT
00:49:01FEEL TOWARDS TOWARDS PEOPLE WHO
00:49:03LOOK OR SOUND OR ACT DIFFERENTLY
00:49:05THAN THAN I DO THOSE TYPES OF
00:49:09EXPERIENCES, ESPECIALLY AT A FORMATIVE AGE, ARE VERY LIFE CHANGING.
00:49:13WE A LITTLE BIT OF A FAILURE TO WATCH OUT A LITTLE BIT, A LOT OF A FAILURE TO LAUNCH IN THIS IN
00:49:17THIS COUNTRY. AND SO, SO WES MOORE IN
00:49:21MARYLAND, WE'RE DOING IT IN
00:49:22UTAH, WHERE WE'RE WE'RE FUNDING
00:49:25KIND OF GAP YEAR SERVICE OPPORTUNE CITIES FOR FOR YOUNG
00:49:28PEOPLE IN BETWEEN IN BETWEEN HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE.
00:49:32THESE COHORTS THAT GO OUT TOGETHER TO TO SERVE WITH NONPROFITS.
00:49:36WE PAY THEM HALF OF THEIR THEIR WAGE. THE NONPROFIT PAYS THEM THE
00:49:39OTHER HALF AND IT'S AWESOME I
00:49:43MEAN THE RETURNS ON THIS HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLE.
00:49:45THESE KIDS OUT SO MUCH, SO MUCH
00:49:51CONFIDENT. BUT BUT ALSO SO MUCH MORE
00:49:55COMPASSIONATE TOWARDS THEIR THEIR FELLOW HUMANS.
00:49:57WE'VE GOT WE'VE GOT DSA PEOPLE SERVING WITH MAGA PEOPLE AND
00:50:01THEY LOVE EACH OTHER AND THEY REALIZE THAT THERE'S MORE TO US
00:50:05THAN THAN JUST OUR POLITICAL IDENTITY.
00:50:08LET'S TAKE SOME QUESTIONS.
00:50:10UH, SEE WHAT FOLKS IN THE ROOM MIGHT.
00:50:12LET'S START RIGHT BACK THERE.
00:50:17UM. THANK YOU. GOVERNOR JONATHAN ROUSH. IT'S GREAT.
00:50:20AND THE ATLANTIC LAST NIGHT
00:50:24PRESIDENT DALLIN OAKS OF THE
00:50:26CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS MADE THE JOURNEY TO
00:50:30WASHINGTON TO GIVE A MAJOR SPEECH IN NATIONAL CATHEDRAL.
00:50:33I THINK YOU WERE PROBABLY THERE
00:50:35IN WHICH HE CALLED FOR CONCILIAR ACTION AS BOTH THE CIVIC AND
00:50:39CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLE, NOT THE DIRECTION THAT A LOT OF WHITE
00:50:42EVANGELICALS HAVE BEEN GOING AT THE MOMENT. I WONDER IF YOU HAVE AN
00:50:45ASSESSMENT OF THE SPEECH AND ITS IMPORTANCE. YEAH. YEAH.
00:50:49THANK YOU SO DOMINO'S IS THE PRESIDENT OF MY FAITH, THE
00:50:52CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER
00:50:54DAY SAINTS, THE HEAD OF A
00:50:58WORLDWIDE 18 MILLION MEMBER
00:51:00ORGANIZATION, FAITH AND I MEAN, I THOUGHT IT WAS INSTRUCTIVE
00:51:04THAT, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST PARAGRAPH HE QUOTED, YOU ALSO
00:51:07SAID THAT IT TELLS YOU TELLS YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW I FELT
00:51:11ABOUT THE SPEECH. I THOUGHT IT WAS A IT WAS A
00:51:14MASTERCLASS. FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T KNOW, HE'S 94 YEARS OLD.
00:51:18AND IF ANYBODY IS QUALIFIED TO
00:51:20GIVE THAT SPEECH, I THINK IT'S HIM NOT BECAUSE OF HIS POSITION
00:51:24AS A FAITH LEADER, ALTHOUGH I THINK THAT THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.
00:51:26BUT HE HE WAS A LAW PROFESSOR AT
00:51:29THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO. HE WAS THE PRESIDENT OF BRIGHAM
00:51:33YOUNG UNIVERSITY. HE SERVED ON THE UTAH SUPREME COURT FOR SEVERAL YEARS.
00:51:37HE IS THOUGHT DEEPLY AND WRITTEN
00:51:39ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION FOR FOR
00:51:4270 YEARS AND AND THEN HAS BEEN
00:51:46HE HAS BEEN A MEMBER OF THE QUORUM OF THE 12 APOSTLES IN OUR
00:51:50CHURCH FOR FOR 40 YEARS AND AND
00:51:53NOW IS THE LEADER OF THAT FAITH
00:51:56AND I THINK IT SHOULD BE REQUIRED READING FOR FOR
00:52:01EVERYONE IN THE IN THE COUNTRY. I THOUGHT IT WAS A MASTERCLASS
00:52:05ON ON NOT JUST ON CIVILITY BUT ON THE PURPOSE OF THE
00:52:09CONSTITUTION. THE FRAMERS VIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION AND HOW IT'S
00:52:12ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO WORK, AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN CONSTITUTIONAL
00:52:17RIGHTS, DIFFERENT GROUPS KIND OF -- UP AGAINST EACH OTHER AND HOW
00:52:20WE AND HOW WE HAVE TO HOW WE
00:52:23HAVE ACT BOTH AS AMERICANS AND IN A CIVIC DUTY.
00:52:27AGAIN, MAKING THE CASE THAT THE CONSTITUTION COMPELS US TO
00:52:30COMPROMISE AND TO WORK TOGETHER
00:52:32AND OUR CHRISTIAN FAITH ALSO COMPELS US TO DO THE TO DO THE
00:52:37SAME WAY. IF YOU HAVEN'T, I WOULD I WOULD
00:52:41ENCOURAGE YOU TO READ ANOTHER WONDERFUL BOOK BY AN ESTEEMED
00:52:43AUTHOR NAMED JONATHAN ROUSH, WHO I THINK IS HERE WITH US, MAY
00:52:47HAVE JUST ASKED THAT QUESTION.
00:52:49IT'S CALLED CROSS-PURPOSES, I BELIEVE. DID I GET THAT RIGHT?
00:52:53IT'S BEEN A YEAR AND A HALF SINCE I READ IT AT CROSS-PURPOSES.
00:52:56IT'S A IT'S A FASCINATING BOOK
00:52:58ON ON THE INTERPLAY OF ALL OF OF
00:53:02FAITH AND IN OUR CONSTITUTIONAL
00:53:05DUTY AS AMERICANS. AND SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING IT UP.
00:53:09I WAS GRATEFUL THAT HE SAID IT THERE, THINGS THAT HE HAD SAID
00:53:12BEFORE, BUT NEVER AS THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH.
00:53:15SO HEARING IT FROM HIM WILL WILL BE GREAT FOR NOT JUST THE
00:53:18MEMBERS OF FAITH, BUT I HOPE THE MEMBERS OF EVERY FAITH TAKE
00:53:21ANOTHER QUESTION ON THE BACK.
00:53:27WHAT DO YOU THINK OF OH, RANKED CHOICE VOTING IN OPEN PRIMARIES
00:53:32AS MEANS TO BRING US TOGETHER AND REDUCE TO EXTREMISM.
00:53:36YEAH. YEAH. THANK YOU. SO.
00:53:38WOW THERE I MENTIONED JUST BRIEFLY THAT THERE ARE
00:53:42STRUCTURAL ISSUES WITH THE WAY THAT WE CHOOSE OUR CANDIDATES. I THINK THAT ANYTHING THAT
00:53:46ENCOURAGES MORE PARTICIPATION IS
00:53:49GENERALLY A POSITIVE.
00:53:51THE I DO HAVE SOME CONCERNS FOR
00:53:55SURE. ALASKA MODEL, FOR EXAMPLE, IS
00:53:58ONE THAT GETS POINTED TO A LOT.
00:54:00AND WHILE THE ALASKA MODEL FOR
00:54:02THOSE OF YOU DON'T KNOW, BASICALLY AN OPEN KIND OF JUNGLE
00:54:06PRIMARY, THEN THE TOP. SO EVERYBODY VOTES THE TOP FOUR,
00:54:10THEN GO INTO THE GENERAL ELECTION AND THEN YOU USE RANKED
00:54:14CHOICE VOTING TO TO KIND OF LIST
00:54:17YOUR ORDER OF CANDIDATES THERE.
00:54:21IT'S ONE OF THOSE THAT LOOKS REALLY GREAT ON PAPER.
00:54:24AND AND THEN IN PRACTICE HAS
00:54:26BEEN PRETTY CLUNKY. IT SOMETIMES TAKES THEM WEEKS TO
00:54:29FIGURE OUT WHO MADE IT, WHO
00:54:32MOVED ON AND THERE IT'S THERE
00:54:36WERE SIX OR SEVEN STATES WHERE THEY TRIED TO EXPAND IT TO MAINE.
00:54:40IT GOT EXPANDED TO MAINE AT SOME LEVEL, BUT IT FAILED IN ALL THE
00:54:44OTHER STATES WHERE THEY TRIED TO BRING IT.
00:54:46SO WHILE, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN
00:54:48VERY CURIOUS ABOUT IT, I JUST
00:54:50DON'T SEE ANY SCENARIO WHERE THAT GETS MOVED FORWARD.
00:54:54THE WE'VE WE'VE TRIED RANKED
00:54:57CHOICE VOTING AT THE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL IN IN SOME CITY
00:55:01COUNCIL RACES AND IT SEEMS TO WORK. ONE OF THE UPSIDES OF RING
00:55:04CHOICE IS THAT IT TENDS TO IF
00:55:07YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE NUMBER ONE ON SOMEBODY'S LIST, YOU
00:55:10STILL WANT TO BE NUMBER TWO. AND AND SO YOU TEND TO TREAT
00:55:14YOUR OPPONENTS WITH A LITTLE MORE DIGNITY AND RESPECT, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE JUST TEARING
00:55:18DOWN NUMBER ONE, THEN THAT MAKES ME DISLIKE YOU. I'M GOING TO PUT YOU AT THE
00:55:22BOTTOM OF MY LIST OR NOT RANK YOU AT ALL. RIGHT?
00:55:24AND SO THERE IS SOME EVIDENCE THAT THAT THAT WOULD PUSH US
00:55:29TOWARDS TO TOWARDS A MAYBE A HEALTHIER DIALOG IN THOSE
00:55:33CAMPAIGNS. AND SO THAT'S THAT'S SOMETHING
00:55:35I'M CERTAINLY CURIOUS ABOUT AND INTERESTED TO SEE MORE OF THE TO
00:55:39SEE IF THAT'S ACTUALLY THE CASE.
00:55:41BUT BUT THERE I THINK THAT
00:55:44CERTAINLY THE MORE PEOPLE WE GET
00:55:46TO TO TO PARTICIPATE IN THE
00:55:49PRIMARY PROCESS, THAT THAT TENDS
00:55:52TO LEAD TO HEALTHIER OUTCOMES.
00:55:55NOW THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT
00:55:57WOULD ARGUE THAT THE WE THAT THE
00:56:01PRIMARIES ARE THE PROBLEM AND THAT OPEN PRIMARIES ARE ARE ARE
00:56:05MAYBE NOT BETTER. CAN I GIVE YOU THE FLOOR?
00:56:08I THINK WE SHOULD BREAK BRIEFLY. I DO.
00:56:11I DON'T PRIMARIES CAUSED THIS PROBLEM BUT I DON'T THINK
00:56:15THERE'S A WAY TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM WE HAVE WITHOUT CHANGES TO THE WAYS PARTIES CHOOSE
00:56:19CANDIDATES. UM AND YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU, I WOULD SAY THE FACT THAT OUR
00:56:23SYSTEM IS SO DECENTRALIZED GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPERIMENT
00:56:27WITH DIFFERENT MODES OF CANDIDATE SELECTION. AND I THINK THE STATE PARTIES
00:56:30SHOULD BE MUCH MORE INTO EXPERIMENTING THAN THEY ARE.
00:56:33THE PRIMARIES COST THEM THEIR THEY CONSTANTLY PUT BOTH PARTIES
00:56:36IN A POSITION OF GETTING CANDIDATES THE GENERAL ELECTION
00:56:40THAT ARE NOT ATTRACTIVE TO THE GENERAL ELECTORATE.
00:56:42AND THEY SHOULD SEE THAT AS A FAILURE. I THINK OF THAT AS A MARKET
00:56:46FAILURE TO ONE THAT WAS A VERY NICE WAY OF SAYING LET'S GO BACK
00:56:50TO SMOKE FILLED ROOMS.
00:56:51YEAH, WE PROBABLY CAN'T DO THAT,
00:56:54BUT WE THINK IT'S BETTER.
00:56:57LET'S TAKE ONE MORE QUESTION ABOUT GOVERNOR.
00:57:01I APPRECIATE IT. YOU TALKED A LOT ABOUT SEVERAL
00:57:04TIMES YOUR FAITH AND RECENTLY
00:57:07SOME OF THE POLITICIANS YOU DESCRIBED OF TALKING A LOT AND
00:57:11NOT THINGS OR BRINGING UP FAITH ALMOST AS A DIVISION.
00:57:14WE HAD THE BIG YOU TALKED ABOUT
00:57:18YOUR CHRISTIAN FAITH. I'M A MAN OF DEEP FAITH, BUT I'M JEWISH.
00:57:20HOW DO YOU ADDRESS THE MINORITY
00:57:24RELIGIONS IN THIS COUNTRY WHEN POLITICIANS TALK ABOUT THIS
00:57:27BEING A CHRISTIAN NATION AND
00:57:29VERY CENTRALIZED PROGRAMS ON THE
00:57:33MALL, BEING BASED ON CHRISTIANITY AND NOT INCLUSIVE
00:57:36OF THE OTHER RELIGION IN THIS COUNTRY? YEAH. YEAH.
00:57:39I THINK YOU AND THANKS FOR FOR
00:57:42SERVING AS A FIRST RESPONDER.
00:57:46SO I FEEL VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS. I HAVE TALKED ABOUT MY FAITH.
00:57:48I'VE TALKED ABOUT MY CHRISTIAN FAITH.
00:57:52THERE ARE A LOT OF CHRISTIANS IN THIS COUNTRY THAT DON'T THINK MY
00:57:55FAITH IS CHRISTIAN. AND SO I KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
00:57:58WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A MINORITY FAITH.
00:58:02I WRITE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IN THE 1840S, MY GREAT GREAT, GREAT
00:58:07GRANDPARENTS HAD THEIR HOUSE BURNED DOWN BECAUSE OF THEIR
00:58:10FAITH, AND THE MOB SHOWED UP AT
00:58:13THEIR HOUSE IN IN AN ILLINOIS
00:58:15AND AND THEY THEY THEY WERE NOT
00:58:20WELCOME THERE AND SO THEY THEY LOST EVERYTHING THEY THEY LOADED
00:58:24THEIR KIDS IN A WAGON AND THEY
00:58:26MADE A VERY DANGEROUS TREK.
00:58:28IN FACT, ALL MY ANCESTORS MADE THAT TREK ACROSS THE UNITED
00:58:32STATES TO A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE
00:58:36SAID THAT YOU COULD NOT INHABIT,
00:58:37THAT YOU COULD NOT THERE WAS A
00:58:41THERE WAS AN EXPLORER OUT THERE WHO SAID HE WOULD PAY $1,000 FOR THE FIRST BUSHELS OF CORN THAT
00:58:44WAS GROWN IN THE SALT LAKE VALLEY BECAUSE EVERYBODY THAT WAS HEADING WEST WENT TO
00:58:48CALIFORNIA, OREGON. NOBODY WANTED TO BE THERE.
00:58:51AND AND SO THEY WENT TO THE ONE
00:58:53PLACE WHERE WHERE.
00:58:57THEY WOULD BE LEFT ALONE BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT AND THE
00:59:01CONSTITUTION AND THE FIRST AMENDMENT THAT GUARANTEED THEM
00:59:04THE RIGHT TO PRACTICE THEIR
00:59:06RELIGION HAD FAILED THEM.
00:59:10SO THEY ACTUALLY LEFT THE UNITED STATES.
00:59:13IT WAS THEN CONSIDERED MEXICAN TERRITORY AND MY ORVILLE
00:59:16SUTHERLAND COX, MY GREAT GREAT, GREAT GRANDFATHER, HE WAS A CRAFTSMAN.
00:59:21HE'S A BLACKSMITH. HE GETS THERE INTO THE VALLEY.
00:59:24SOME OF THE FIRST THERE, AND HE GETS SENT UP INTO THE INTO THE
00:59:28MOUNTAINS TO TO, TO, TO CUT DOWN
00:59:30SOME TREES, TO BUILD HOUSES. AND HE GETS LOST IN HIS THOUGHTS
00:59:34WHILE HE'S UP THERE. THAT'S WHERE I GET MY MY FOCUS
00:59:38FROM. AND HE, HE SEES THIS BEAUTIFUL
00:59:40SPECIMEN OF PINE TREE. HE CUTS IT DOWN, HE DRAGS IT
00:59:44BACK TO THE TOWN SQUARE.
00:59:46HE, HE HE CLEANS IT UP, HE
00:59:48STANDS IT UP, AND HE RAISES THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF
00:59:52AMERICA, THE COUNTRY THAT IT
00:59:55FAILED THEM, THE COUNTRY THAT DIDN'T WANT THEM, COUNTRY THAT
00:59:59HAD LEFT THEM BEHIND. I WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY, VERY
01:00:03EASY FOR THEM TO HATE THAT
01:00:05COUNTRY, TO TO CURSE THAT COUNTRY.
01:00:09AND YET HE DIDN'T BECAUSE HE
01:00:11STILL BELIEVED AND THEY STILL BELIEVED IN THE IDEALS THAT THIS
01:00:15COUNTRY ESPOUSED. WE HAVE A HISTORY OF SOME PRETTY
01:00:18BAD DECISIONS AS A COUNTRY, BUT THAT DOES NOT DEFINE WHO WE ARE
01:00:22AS A COUNTRY. WE HAVE THESE IDEALS THAT WE
01:00:25BELIEVE IN, INCLUDING THE FIRST AMENDMENT.
01:00:28NOW, THAT DEBATE THAT YOU
01:00:31REFERRING TO, THAT DEBATE HAS WAS TRIED WITH THE FOUNDERS AND
01:00:35THEY LOST.
01:00:36WE DECIDED AS A NATION, AS A
01:00:41MULTICULTURAL AND MULTI-FAITH, PLURALISTIC NATION, THAT IN
01:00:44MULTIPLE PLACES IN THE CONSTITUTION, THAT WE WERE NOT
01:00:47GOING TO HAVE AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, THE GOVERNMENT WAS
01:00:50GOING TO STAY OUT OF RELIGION, AND THAT WE WERE GOING TO PROTECT THE RELIGIOUS RIGHTS OF
01:00:54EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY. THAT IS WHO WE ARE.
01:00:57THAT IS STILL WHO WE ARE. THAT IS THE MOST AMERICAN THING AMONG US.
01:01:01AND THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD SAY THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE KIND OF
01:01:04AMERICAN, ONE KIND OF HERITAGE,
01:01:07ONE KIND OF FAITH, THEY'RE JUST WRONG AND THEY WILL ALWAYS BE
01:01:12WRONG.
01:01:12AND AND IT PEOPLE OF GOOD FAITH
01:01:16OF ALL FAITHS TO STAND UP FOR OUR MINORITY FAITHS, WHOEVER
01:01:20THEY ARE, WHEREVER THEY ARE. AND I WILL JUST TELL YOU THAT I
01:01:24MAY DISAGREE WITH YOU, THAT MY FAITH MAY BE VERY DIFFERENT,
01:01:28DIFFERENT THAN YOURS, AND I WILL DIE FOR YOUR RIGHT TO TO PRACTICE THAT FAITH, BECAUSE
01:01:34THAT'S WHAT AMERICA IS ALL ABOUT. SO THANK YOU, SIR.
01:01:41THAT SEEMS LIKE A VERY FINE PLACE TO END.
01:01:44THE BOOK IS OFF RAMP HOW TO BE A PEACEMAKER IN AGE OF CONTEMPT.
01:01:48GOVERNOR SPENCER COX, THANK YOU VERY EVERYONE.
01:01:50THANK YOU ALL.