Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:04MEDIA WORLD, ONE PLACE BRINGS AMERICA TOGETHER. ACCORDING TO A NEW M&G AND
00:00:08RESEARCH REPORT, NEARLY 90 MILLION AMERICANS TURN TO
00:00:12C-SPAN. AND THEY'RE ALMOST PERFECTLY BALANCED. 28% CONSERVATIVE, 10% LIBERAL OR
00:00:18PROGRESSIVE? 41%. MODERATE. REPUBLIC FANS WATCHING
00:00:21DEMOCRATS, DEMOCRATS WATCHING
00:00:23REPUBLICANS, MODERATES WATCHING
00:00:25ALL SIDES BECAUSE C-SPAN VIEWERS WANT THE FACTS STRAIGHT FROM THE
00:00:30SOURCE. NO COMMENTARY, NO AGENDA. JUST DEMOCRACY.
00:00:34UNFILTERED. EVERY DAY ON THE C-SPAN NETWORK'S.
00:00:38OUR MODERATOR THIS MORNING WILL BE KATHERINE KRAMER BROWN.
00:00:41SHE IS A PROFESSOR OF HISTORY
00:00:43AND DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN POLITICAL HISTORY MEDIA
00:00:47AND TECHNOLOGY AT PURDUE UNIVERSITY. SHE IS THE AUTHOR OF TWO BOOKS,
00:00:51SHOWBIZ POLITICS, HOLLYWOOD AND AMERICAN POLITICAL LIFE AND 24
00:00:55SEVEN POLITICS, CABLE TELEVISION AND THE FRAGMENTING OF AMERICA
00:00:58FROM WATERGATE TO FOX NEWS. SHE ALSO SERVES AS SENIOR EDITOR
00:01:02FOR THE MADE BY HISTORY.COM AT TIME MAGAZINE.
00:01:04DR. BROWN, OUT OF THE PODIUM IS
00:01:09YOURS. THANK YOU.
00:01:13GOOD MORNING, EVERYBODY.
00:01:16FIRST AND FOREMOST, THANK YOU TO THE AMERICAN HISTORICAL
00:01:20ASSOCIATION FOR ALL OF THEIR WORK TO MAKE HISTORICAL
00:01:23SCHOLARSHIP RELEVANT AND ACCESSIBLE FOR PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE ACADEMY.
00:01:28AND TO ARRANGE EVENTS LIKE THIS.
00:01:30THE A.J., I HAVE THE THING, AS
00:01:32BEN MENTIONED, THAT EVERYTHING
00:01:34HAS A HISTORY AND THAT IS TRUE.
00:01:37BUT THAT HISTORY IS MORE THAN
00:01:39JUST AN INTERESTING STORY FROM THE PAST.
00:01:41IN FACT, IT'S REALLY ESSENTIAL TO UNDERSTANDING THE CURRENT
00:01:45MOMENT AND PERHAPS EVEN TO
00:01:47REIMAGINING FUTURE PATHWAYS THAT WE MAY PURSUE.
00:01:50AND THIS IS A ESPECIALLY TRUE
00:01:52WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC POLICY
00:01:54AND IS ON THE MINDS OF
00:01:56EDUCATORS, POLICYMAKERS, BUSINESS LEADERS, WORKERS AS
00:02:01THEY THINK THROUGH HOW IT'S CHANGING THE DYNAMICS OF
00:02:03EDUCATION AND WORK. BUT IT'S ALSO RAISING REALLY
00:02:07IMPORTANT QUESTIONS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH CITIZENSHIP AND HOW TO
00:02:12BALANCE AS A POLICY QUESTION, PRIVATE SEE, AND THE RIGHTS OF
00:02:16INDIVIDUALS WITH THE IMPERATIVE OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND THE
00:02:19OPERATIONS OF A NATIONAL SECURITY STATE.
00:02:22WHAT TENSIONS AND CONTRADICTION
00:02:25EMERGE AND HOW MIGHT A HISTORICAL LENS HELP US
00:02:29UNDERSTAND THE ORIGINS? CONFLICT, ANSWERS AND STAKES OF
00:02:32THESE CONTEMPORARY CONVERSATIONS AROUND NEW TECHNOLOGY AND ITS
00:02:38RELATIONSHIP TO PRIVACY AND NATIONAL SECURITY?
00:02:41THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO TACKLE HERE TODAY.
00:02:43AND WE HAVE AN AMAZING LINEUP OF SCHOLARS TO HELP US DIG INTO
00:02:47THESE QUESTIONS AND PROVIDE MUCH NEEDED HISTORICAL CONTEXT, BUT
00:02:51ALSO ANALYSIS THAT'S REALLY CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO REMIND
00:02:54US THAT TECHNOLOGY ITSELF DOES NOT CHART ITS OWN COURSE.
00:02:58PEOPLE MAKE DECISIONS OVER HOW
00:03:00TO USE AND STRUCTURE NEW
00:03:02TECHNOLOGY AND UNDERSTANDING
00:03:05THESE HISTORICAL DYNAMICS AND THE CONTEXT THAT SHAPES THE
00:03:09AVAILABLE CHOICES THAT PEOPLE HAVE. CAN HELP US BETTER UNDERSTAND
00:03:11THE POLICY TERRAIN TODAY. SO WE WILL BEGIN.
00:03:16I WILL BEGIN WITH INTRODUCTIONS. EACH OF THE PANELISTS WILL OFFER
00:03:19SOME REMARKS AND THEN WE'LL
00:03:22WE'LL END WITH A Q&A.
00:03:24AND EACH OF YOU HAVE A A CARD,
00:03:26AN INDEX CARD WHERE YOU CAN WRITE YOUR QUESTIONS, WILL
00:03:29COLLECT IT, AND WE'LL USE THE LAST HALF AN HOUR FOR A Q&A.
00:03:34SO TO BEGIN OUR PANEL, FIRST WE HAVE FOR I GO WHO IS THE ANDREW
00:03:38JACKSON CHAIR? AND AMERICAN HISTORY AT
00:03:42VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY. SHE TEACHES AND WRITES ABOUT
00:03:45MODERN U.S. CULTURAL, INTELLECTUAL, LEGAL AND
00:03:47POLITICAL HISTORY. AND HER BOOKS INCLUDE THE KNOW
00:03:51AND CITIZEN A HISTORY OF PRIVACY IN MODERN AMERICA AND THE
00:03:56AVERAGE AMERICAN SURVEYS CITIZENS AND THE MAKING OF A
00:03:58MASS PUBLIC. EKATERINA BHABHA AND STEPHEN IS
00:04:02AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR IN THE DEPARTMENT OF HISTORY AT PURDUE
00:04:06UNIVERSITY. SHE IS A HISTORIAN OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY WORKING ON A BOOK
00:04:10MANUSCRIPT TENTATIVELY TITLED LEARNING WITH MACHINES IN THE
00:04:14COLD WAR, UNITED STATES AND THE SOVIET UNION.
00:04:17I FIRST A COMPARATIVE HISTORY
00:04:19ABOUT PEDAGOGICAL COMPUTING AND
00:04:22ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE RESEARCH IN THE SOVIET UNION AND THE
00:04:26UNITED STATES DURING THE COLD WAR.
00:04:27REBECCA SLAYTON IS ASSOCIATE
00:04:30PROFESSOR IN CORNELL UNIVERSITY CITIES SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
00:04:34STUDIES DEPARTMENT. HER RESEARCH AND TEACHING
00:04:37EXAMINE RELATIONSHIPS AMONG RISK
00:04:39GOVERNANCE AND EXPERTISE WITH A
00:04:41FOCUS ON INTERNATIONAL SECURITY AND COOPERATION.
00:04:44SINCE WORLD WAR TWO. HER FIRST BOOK IS ARGUMENTS THAT
00:04:48COUNT PHYSICS, COMPUTING AND MISSILE DEFENSE.
00:04:541949 TO 2012 AND BRENDAN CLASSIC IS ASSISTANT PROFESSOR IN THE
00:04:56DEPARTMENT OF HISTORY AT PURDUE UNIVERSITY, AND HE IS WORKING ON
00:05:00HIS FIRST BOOK PROJECT THAT IS TENTATIVELY TITLED THE ILL
00:05:02DEFINED WORLD A HISTORY OF
00:05:05MACHINE LEARNING AND NOVEL POLITICAL KNOWLEDGE, WHICH
00:05:09TRACES HOW SCHEMES OF QUANTIFICATION WOULD GO ON TO
00:05:13REMAKE CONTEMPORARY A.I.
00:05:15SO I WILL TURN THE FLOOR OVER
00:05:17NOW TO DR. EDGAR.
00:05:24WELL, THANKS, KATIE AND THE HRA
00:05:26FOR ORGANIZING THIS SESSION. AND THANKS TO YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.
00:05:30GOOD MORNING. I THINK IT IS SAFE TO SAY THAT
00:05:33WE PROBABLY ALL RECOGNIZE THAT WE'RE IN THE MIDST OF AN
00:05:37IMPORTANT PUBLIC RECKONING WITH
00:05:39A.I., BOTH ITS PROMISE AND ITS PERILS.
00:05:41SO I'M REALLY GLAD TO HAVE THIS CHANCE TO THINK WITH YOU ALL ABOUT THAT AND THE IMPLICATIONS
00:05:45FOR AMERICANS PRIVACY AND SECURITY. THIS MORNING.
00:05:49TO DO SO, HOWEVER, I'M NOT GOING
00:05:52TO TALK ABOUT A.I. AT ALL. IN FACT, I'M GOING TO LEAVE THE
00:05:5521ST CENTURY BEHIND AND TRANSPORT US TO THE LATE 19TH
00:05:59CENTURY, AN ERA THAT MUCH LIKE
00:06:01OURS WAS FILLED WITH DISRUPTIVE
00:06:05TECHNOLOGICAL CHANGE. IT WAS ALSO COMPLETE WITH
00:06:09MASSIVE PRIVATE ENTITIES THAT
00:06:12CONVERTED, BOUGHT AND SOLD
00:06:14INFORMATION IN NEW WAYS. SO, NOT COINCIDENTALLY, THIS IS
00:06:18THE MOMENT OF THE LATE 19TH CENTURY WHEN MODERN DEBATES OVER
00:06:22PRIVACY GET STARTED.
00:06:25NOW, ROUGHLY SPEAKING, BEFORE
00:06:28THE CIVIL WAR, MOST AMERICANS
00:06:30UNDERSTOOD PRIVACY AS CLOSELY LINKED TO THEIR PHYSICAL
00:06:35ENVIRONMENT AND THEIR PROPERTY LINES. AND SO THE MOST OBVIOUS
00:06:37INFRINGEMENTS OF THEIR PRIVACY CAME IN A KIND OF PHYSICAL
00:06:41MANNER. BUT A HOST OF NEW TECHNOLOGIES IN THE LATE 19TH CENTURY WOULD
00:06:45CHANGE THIS UNDERSTANDING.
00:06:47PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT WHERE A
00:06:49SET OF NEW VIRTUAL INVASIONS,
00:06:52TELEGRAPH LINES, TELEPHONE
00:06:54WIRES, RECORDING DEVICES, THE
00:06:56TABLOID PRESS AND WHAT CONTEMPORARIES CALLED
00:07:00INSTANTANEOUS PHOTOGRAPHY.
00:07:02I PICTURED A FEW OF THESE
00:07:04TECHNOLOGIES ON THE HANDOUT. IF YOU WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT
00:07:08THEM OR WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE TO PEOPLE AND HOW CONTEMPORARIES
00:07:11REACTED TO THEM. SO I'LL POINT TO THOSE AS I MOVE ALONG.
00:07:15BUT I WANT TO BEGIN WITH THE TELEGRAPH AND THE TELEPHONE ARE
00:07:17TWO OF THE DAZZLING INNOVATIONS
00:07:20OF THE LATE 19TH CENTURY, 1870S, 1880S.
00:07:23THEY BOTH ALLOWED INFORMATION TO
00:07:25TRAVEL MUCH MORE SWIFTLY AND EFFICIENTLY THAN EVER BEFORE,
00:07:29BUT ALSO LESS SECURELY THAN EVER
00:07:33BEFORE. WHICH IS WHY ONE HISTORIAN CALLS THE TELEGRAPH NETWORK THE
00:07:37VICTORIAN INTERNET, WHICH I THINK IS A GREAT COINING THE
00:07:43TELEGRAPH, LIKE THE INTERNET, POSED A FAMILIAR TRADEOFF
00:07:46BETWEEN CONVENIENCE AND PRIVACY.
00:07:48IT REQUIRED THE DISCLOSURE OF THE CONTENTS OF ONE'S MESSAGE TO
00:07:52A THIRD PARTY AND COMPANIES KEPT
00:07:54COPIES, WHICH MIGHT EXIST IN 3 OR 4 SEPARATE LOCATIONS.
00:07:57AND THOSE CONTENTS COULD BE SUBPOENAED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
00:08:01FOR EXAMPLE, JUST A FEW YEARS
00:08:04LATER, AFTER THE TELEGRAPH, THE COMMERCIAL TELEGRAPH REALLY CAME
00:08:06INTO BEING WAS THE INTRODUCTION
00:08:08OF THE COMMERCIAL TELEPHONE, WHICH LAUNCHED, ACCORDING TO ONE
00:08:12OBSERVER, ONCE AND FOR ALL, AN
00:08:15ERA OF ELECTRONIC EXHIBITION ISM AND VOYEURISM.
00:08:18I MEAN, IT SOUNDS KIND OF RIPPED FROM THE 1990S TO ME.
00:08:22YOU SEE THIS ON THE HANDOUT IN
00:08:24THAT IMAGE AS AN AT&T AD OF A AN
00:08:27OPERATOR REACHING RIGHT INTO
00:08:29PEOPLE'S HOMES ON THAT MAP OF THE UNITED STATES.
00:08:34THERE WERE OTHER LISTENERS, NOT JUST THE TWO PARTIES TO THE
00:08:38CONVERSATION. AND THERE WERE NEW PRACTICES THAT CAME WITH THESE
00:08:43TECHNOLOGIES, THE TAPPING OF TELEPHONE WIRES BY CRIMINALS AS
00:08:47WELL AS THE POLICE AND SOMETIMES THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ON NATIONAL SECURITY GROUNDS.
00:08:51THIS WILL, IN FACT, BE WELL-KNOWN ENOUGH TO AMERICANS
00:08:54TO SPAWN A WHOLE NEW GENERE OF LITERATURE. THE WIRE THRILLER.
00:09:00AND YOU SEE AN IMAGE OF THAT ON
00:09:02THE TOP LEFT OF THE HANDOUT. A LEGAL DEBATE WOULD SOON BE
00:09:06SPARKED BY THESE PRACTICES OF INTERCEPTION.
00:09:08DID INFORMATION THAT TRAVELED
00:09:11OVER WIRES OR CABLES DESERVE THE
00:09:13SAME KIND OF PROTECTIONS AS WRITTEN CORRESPONDENCE?
00:09:17IN 1928, A DECADE AFTER THIS OR
00:09:20SEVERAL DECADES AFTER THIS TECHNOLOGY HAD COME INTO USE.
00:09:23THE SUPREME COURT SAID NO. WIRETAPPING WAS NOT A PRIVACY
00:09:27INVASION BECAUSE IT MADE NO PHYSICAL INTRUSION ON SOMEONE'S
00:09:31HOME. THE LINES AND CABLES, YOU KNOW,
00:09:33WENT OUTSIDE OF THE HOUSE.
00:09:35SO THIS RULING WOULD STAY IN PLACE FOR DECADES AND NOT BE
00:09:41OVERTURNED UNTIL 1967. AND I JUST WANT TO NOTE THERE,
00:09:43THE CHALLENGE POSED BY NEW TECHNOLOGIES IN TERMS OF THE
00:09:47REGULATION KEEPING UP WITH THE
00:09:49POSSIBLE RISKS.
00:09:51THE ANALOGY FROM MAIL TO
00:09:54TELEPHONE DIDN'T WORK VERY WELL
00:09:56OR SERVE AMERICANS PARTICULARLY WELL.
00:09:58OTHER TECHNOLOGIES OF THE DAY, LATE 19TH CENTURY WERE CHANGING
00:10:02THE TERMS OF PRIVACY AS WELL,
00:10:04INCLUDING THE NOVEL ABILITY TO
00:10:07STORE AND DISSEMINATE DATA THAT
00:10:09HAD ONCE BEEN EPHEMERAL. AND YOU COULD THINK HERE WE
00:10:12DON'T TYPICALLY THINK OF THIS NOW, TODAY AS A KIND OF
00:10:16TECHNOLOGY OF CAPTURE, BUT THE PHONOGRAPH ALSO PICTURED FOR YOU
00:10:20THERE, WHICH COULD FOR THE FIRST TIME RECORD AND PLAYBACK A HUMAN
00:10:23VOICE, FOR EXAMPLE, MORE ALARMING THAN THE PHONOGRAPH TO
00:10:27MANY AMERICANS WAS THE DISSEMINATION OF THE PERSONAL
00:10:30IMAGE AFFORDED BY NEW TECHNOLOGIES OF EXPOSURE TIMES
00:10:34AND INSTANT PHOTOGRAPHY.
00:10:36PHOTOGRAPHY HAD ONCE BEEN SLOW
00:10:38AND CUMBERSOME SUBJECTS HAD TO SIT FOR A PHOTO.
00:10:41THEY COULDN'T BE CAUGHT UNAWARES. BUT THE SHRINKING OF EXPOSURE
00:10:46TIMES IN THE 1880S MEANT THAT PICTURE TAKING NO LONGER
00:10:48REQUIRED A COOPERATIVE SUBJECT.
00:10:50AMATEUR PHOTOGRAPHY WOULD TAKE OFF AND A MARKET FOR IMAGES AS
00:10:54WELL. YOU SEE THIS IN THE BROWNIE CAMERA.
00:10:58ADVERTISEMENT, AS WELL AS NEW DEVICES FOR SURREPTITIOUS PHOTO
00:11:02TAKING. THE APTLY NAMED DETECTIVE
00:11:06CAMERAS WERE OFTEN DISGUISED AS OTHER THINGS THAT PEOPLE DIDN'T
00:11:09KNOW YOU WERE CARRYING A CAMERA AROUND WITH YOU. ALL OF THIS WOULD OPEN THE
00:11:13FLOODGATES FOR THE MASS CIRCULATION OF IMAGES IN THE
00:11:16NEWSPAPER AND ELSEWHERE, AND
00:11:19ACCOMPANYING STORIES OF SEX, CRIME AND CELEBRITY, WHICH YOU
00:11:22SEE IN A CARTOON THERE AS WELL. ALL OF THIS RAISED THE
00:11:27POSSIBILITY, A NEW POSSIBILITY OF UNDESIRABLE EXPOSURE AND
00:11:30PUBLICITY OF PRIVATE AFFAIRS.
00:11:32SO NEW TECHNOLOGY IS THEN, AS
00:11:36TODAY, SEEMED TO MAKE MATTER OF FACT, EXPECTATIONS OF PRIVACY
00:11:41OBSOLETE. BUT THEY ALSO AND I THINK THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO THINK
00:11:44ABOUT TODAY, THEY GENERATE NEW DEFENSES AND SOMETIMES NEW
00:11:48DEFINITIONS OF PRIVACY, INDIVIDUAL PRIVACY.
00:11:52INDEED, THIS MOMENT WOULD SPARK THE FIRST MODERN STATEMENT OF A
00:11:55RIGHT TO PRIVACY. MAKING THE CASE WERE TO BOSTON
00:11:59LAWYERS SAMUEL WARREN AND LOUIS
00:12:01BRANDEIS IN THE HARVARD LAW REVIEW IN 1890.
00:12:05THEY ARGUED THAT NOVEL METHODS OF INTRUSION, ALL OF THOSE
00:12:09TECHNOLOGIES SUGGEST RACE THROUGH RECORDING DEVICES, INSTANTANEOUS PHOTOGRAPHY, AN
00:12:14AGGRESSIVE PRESS HAD, QUOTE UNQUOTE, INVADED THE SACRED
00:12:18PRECINCTS OF PRIVATE AND DOMESTIC LIFE.
00:12:21AND SO THEY CALLED FOR A REMEDY
00:12:23WHICH THEY CALLED A RIGHT TO BE LET ALONE.
00:12:27AND THEY'LL ARGUE, INTERESTINGLY, FOR SOMETHING FAR
00:12:29BEYOND MERE PROPERTY RIGHTS,
00:12:32SOMETHING THAT WAS FAR LESS TANGIBLE. AND THEY CALLED IT ONE'S
00:12:37INVIOLABLE PERSONALITY, ONE'S SELF, AND NEEDED TO BE PROTECTED
00:12:40FROM ALL OF THESE INVASIONS.
00:12:42SO MORE THAN A CENTURY BEFORE
00:12:45THE FRAMING OF A RIGHT TO BE FORGOTTEN FOR DIGITAL AGE
00:12:48CITIZENS OR WORRY ABOUT
00:12:50DEEPFAKES OR REVENGE --, THIS
00:12:53NOTION OF A RIGHT TO ONE'S OWN
00:12:55IMAGE, PERSONALITY AND REPUTATION REALLY RESONATED
00:12:59QUITE BROADLY. ONE EXAMPLE OF THIS WAS A BILL
00:13:03TO PROTECT LADIES THAT WAS INTRODUCED IN THE US HOUSE OF
00:13:07REPRESENTATIVES IN 1888 TO BAR WOMEN'S IMAGES FROM BEING USED
00:13:11IN COMMERCE WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.
00:13:13AS THIS SUGGESTS, SOME OF THE FIRST RIGHT TO PRIVACY SUITS AND
00:13:19CLAIMS IN THE UNITED STATES WERE BROUGHT BY INDIVIDUAL MILLS
00:13:22WHOSE IMAGES WERE USED WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION TO ADVERTISE
00:13:26PRODUCTS FROM SOAP TO CIGARETS.
00:13:28I HAVE PICTURED A COUPLE OF THEM ON THAT HANDOUT AGAIN.
00:13:32ONE OF THEM ON THE LEFT THERE WAS MARIANNE MIGNOLA.
00:13:35SHE WAS A STAGE ACTRESS. AND SHE WAS PHOTOGRAPHED IN TIGHTS, SHE SAID, WHICH WAS NOT
00:13:39MEANT TO BE CIRCULATED BEYOND THE THEATER. AND SHE BROUGHT SUIT FOR THE
00:13:43UNWANTED CIRCULATION OF HER IMAGE.
00:13:47MORE FAMOUSLY, IN 1902, A YOUNG WOMAN, STILL A TEENAGER AT THIS
00:13:52POINT. ABIGAIL ROBERTSON LODGED A SIMILAR COMPLAINT IN NEW YORK
00:13:57AGAINST FRANKLIN MILLS FLOWER. SO THE FLOWER MAKER HAD USED HER
00:14:01IMAGE. SHE CITED THE MAKING OF 25,000
00:14:04LITHOGRAPHIC PRINTS, PHOTOGRAPHS
00:14:06AND LIKENESSES OF HERSELF. THEY HAD CIRCULATED THOSE WITHOUT HER KNOWLEDGE AND
00:14:10DISPLAYED THEM IN STORES AND
00:14:12SALOONS AND OTHER PUBLIC VENUES.
00:14:14IN FACT, ROBERTS CLAIMED THAT
00:14:17SHE HAD ONLY LEARNED OF THIS ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN WHEN SHE
00:14:21GLIMPSED HER OWN FACE ON A
00:14:22NEIGHBOR'S BAG OF FLOUR.
00:14:26SO THIS SEEMS AMUSING TO US NOW,
00:14:30BUT THIS WAS A REAL OFFENSE TO HER.
00:14:32SHE CLAIMED GREAT DISTRESS AND
00:14:36SUFFERING TO HAVE LOST CONTROL OF HER IMAGE.
00:14:38AND IN FACT, SHE WILL WIN IN A LOWER COURT.
00:14:40A SYMPATHETIC COURT WILL SAY
00:14:43THIS IS A NOVEL CLAIM. BUT THEY RULED IN HER FAVOR.
00:14:47JUDGING THAT HER RIGHT OF PRIVACY HAD INDEED BEEN VIOLATED.
00:14:51HOWEVER, ANOTHER JUDGE WILL COME ALONG AND OVERTURN THIS VICTORY,
00:14:56ARGUING THAT IN A WORLD OF INVISIBLE VIRTUAL CAPTURE BY NEW
00:14:59TECHNOLOGIES, PERHAPS THERE WAS NO FEASIBLE CLAIM TO ONE'S OWN
00:15:02IMAGE OR ONE'S OWN MOVEMENTS.
00:15:04THE SAME CASE, OF COURSE, IS MADE TODAY BY THE MARKETERS OF
00:15:08FACIAL RECOGNITION TOOLS AND SCRAPERS OF PUBLICLY AVAILABLE
00:15:11DATA OR WRITING. THAT IS, THE BUILDING MATERIAL
00:15:15FOR LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS. AND SO WE SEE SIMILAR ARGUMENTS
00:15:19TODAY THAT NEW TECHNOLOGIES AND
00:15:21THE COLLECTING OF VARIOUS KINDS OF INFORMATION CAN'T BE REINED
00:15:25IN EITHER BECAUSE THERE ARE
00:15:25OTHER PUBLIC INTERESTS AT STAKE
00:15:29OR BECAUSE THE TECHNOLOGY FOR CAPTURE IS ALREADY OUT THERE AND
00:15:32BEING DEPLOYED. IT CAN'T BE STOPPED.
00:15:35AND SO THE QUESTIONS THAT ROBERSON'S LAWSUIT RAISED MORE
00:15:38THAN A CENTURY AGO ARE ONES THAT WE'RE STILL ASKING WHO HAS THE
00:15:42RIGHT TO POSSESS OR CONSUME OR CIRCULATE ONES IMAGE? WHAT RIGHT DOES ONE HAVE TO
00:15:46ONE'S OWN REPUTATION OR BIOGRAPHICAL OR FINANCIAL OR
00:15:50COMMERCIAL DATA? NEVERTHELESS, AS BRANDEIS AND
00:15:54WARREN WOULD HAVE HOPED, PUBLIC OUTCRIES OVER NEW TECHNOLOGIES
00:15:58HAVE SPARKED INNOVATIVE REMEDIES. AND IN FACT, IT WAS PUBLIC
00:16:02OUTRAGE OVER ROBERSON'S CASE BEING OVERTURNED THAT LED THE
00:16:05NEW YORK LEGISLATURE TO PASS THE NATION'S VERY FIRST PRIVACY TORT
00:16:09STATUTE, ALLOWING INDIVIDUALS TO SUE FOR INVASION OF PRIVACY.
00:16:12WHETHER NAME, PORTRAIT OR PICTURE WAS USED WITHOUT CONSENT
00:16:15FOR PURPOSES OF TRADE. AND OVER THE COURSE OF THE 20TH
00:16:19CENTURY, WE SAW THE DEFINITION
00:16:20OF PRIVACY EXPAND DRAMATICALLY.
00:16:23AS I NOTED FROM A SHIFT AROUND FROM PROPERTY RIGHTS AND
00:16:28PHYSICAL SPACE TO ENCOMPASS THINGS LIKE ONE'S IMAGE AND
00:16:31PERSONALITY, COMPUTER ZATION AND
00:16:34THE NETWORKED DATABANKS THAT EMERGED IN THE 1960S WOULD
00:16:37TRIGGER YET ANOTHER PRIVACY
00:16:40DEBATE CENTERING ON THE LAWS,
00:16:42NORMS AND REGULATIONS THAT MIGHT SAFEGUARD INDIVIDUAL'S PERSONAL
00:16:46DATA, SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO HEAR MORE ABOUT FROM OTHER PANELISTS.
00:16:50BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE COURSE OF OUR UNDERSTANDING OF
00:16:54PRIVACY OVER THE LAST CENTURY, ALL KINDS OF NEW THINGS STARTED
00:16:57TO BE PART OF THAT DEFINITION ONCE INNER SELF, WHEN
00:17:01PSYCHOLOGICAL FREEDOM, ONE'S DECISIONAL AUTONOMY, ONE'S
00:17:03OFFICIAL RECORDS AND DIGITAL IDENTITY.
00:17:05SO WHAT I HOPE THIS BRIEF
00:17:09HISTORICAL TOUR REVEALS IS THAT
00:17:12THE PROBLEMS OF EXPOSURE, OF
00:17:14CAPTURE, SURVEILLANCE, INTERCEPT AND TRANSMISSION AND
00:17:18COMMODIFICATION OF PRIVATE MATERIAL IS NOT AT ALL NEW.
00:17:20WE'RE NOW, I THINK, FACING A
00:17:24THIRD PIVOTAL MOMENT FOR PUBLIC
00:17:26DEBATE AROUND GENERATIVE A.I. IN
00:17:29THIS, I THINK WHERE HISTORY IS MAYBE MOST HELPFUL IS NOT
00:17:33NECESSARILY IN THE ANALOGIES FROM OLD TECHNOLOGIES TO NEW
00:17:37ONES, BUT IN HELPING US SEE PATTERNS, HOW THREATS TO PRIVACY.
00:17:40AND THEREFORE, I WOULD ARGUE SECURITY HAVE OFTEN BEEN
00:17:45WRECKING SIZED, BUT JUST AS OFTEN PUSHED ASIDE, LOBBIED
00:17:47AGAINST OVERWRITTEN OR IGNORED.
00:17:51THIS MEANS THAT PUBLIC CONCERNS OVER THE ARRIVAL OF NEW
00:17:54TECHNOLOGIES HAVE TYPICALLY BEEN ONLY INCOMPLETELY OR WEAKLY
00:17:58RESOLVED. IN THE AGE OF AI, AND WITH SO
00:18:01MUCH AT STAKE IN OTHER WORDS, WE
00:18:03MAY NOT WANT TO ALLOW THE PAST TO SHAPE OUR SENSE OF
00:18:07POSSIBILITY AROUND POLICY SOLUTIONS.
00:18:09THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
00:18:18GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
00:18:23TODAY FOR ORGANIZING THIS PANEL
00:18:26AND IT IS SUCH A PLEASURE TO BE A PART OF IT AND TO PRESENT TO
00:18:29THIS AUDIENCE. THE FIRST ARTIFICIAL
00:18:33INTELLIGENCE SYSTEM THAT WAS DEVELOPED IN THE MID 1950S BY
00:18:38POLITICAL SCIENTIST HERBERT SIMON AND MATHEMATIC ITION ALAN
00:18:42NEWELL AT THE RAND CORPORATION, A MILITARY STRATEGY THINK TANK
00:18:46IN SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA,
00:18:49NAMED THE LOGIC THEORY MACHINE.
00:18:51SIMON IN YOUR SYSTEM, AUTOMATED MATHEMATICAL CALCULATION.
00:18:56IT PROVED THEOREMS FROM
00:18:58PRINCIPLE MATHEMATICA BY ALFRED WHITEHEAD AND BERTRAND RUSSELL.
00:19:03SIMON EMPHASIZED THAT THE
00:19:05ALGORITHMS OF THE LOGIC THEORY MACHINE MIMICKED THE VERY WAY
00:19:09HUMANS SOLVE PROBLEMS IN
00:19:13ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HAS DRAMATICALLY CHANGED SINCE THE 1950S.
00:19:18I DEVELOPERS NO LONGER TRY TO EMULATE THE WORKINGS OF THE HUMAN MIND.
00:19:22AND MORE IMPORTANTLY FOR MY PRESENTATION TODAY, AI SYSTEMS
00:19:25ARE NO LONGER EXCLUSIVELY BOUND
00:19:29TO ELITE UNIVERSITIES AND PRESTIGIOUS THINK TANKS.
00:19:33ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HAS CEASED TO BE A PURELY ACADEMIC
00:19:37PURSUIT. IT HAS EVOLVED IN A VERY TYPE OF
00:19:40UBIQUITOUS COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE PRODUCTS, AND A.I. HAS
00:19:44BECOME DEEPLY INTERACTIVE, DATA
00:19:48DRIVEN. AI ALGORITHMS USE OUR DATA TO
00:19:51SHAPE WHAT WE SEE WHEN WE OPEN SOCIAL PLATFORMS AND SEARCH
00:19:55ENGINES AND SYSTEMS THAT USE
00:19:57LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS CAN NOW
00:19:59ENGAGED IN FLUID CONVERSATIONS.
00:20:02AND IT IS THESE INTERACTIVE
00:20:04ABILITIES OF PRESENT DAY AI THAT
00:20:06HAS BEEN OF PUBLIC CONCERN RECENTLY.
00:20:10MACHINE LEARNING HAS PROVEN TO BE EFFECTIVE IN MICROTARGETING
00:20:13CAMPAIGNS AND IN MANIPULATING USERS EMOTIONS.
00:20:17AND GENERATIVE AI IS EXCELLENT
00:20:19AT PRODUCING CONVINCING AND BUT
00:20:22ALWAYS BUT NOT ALWAYS ACCURATE TEXTS.
00:20:24MACHINE LEARNING AND GENERATIVE
00:20:26AI ALGORITHMS ARE RAISING
00:20:29CONCERNS ABOUT THE POTENTIAL OF
00:20:31THIS TECHNOLOGY TO SHAPE HUMAN
00:20:33BEHAVIOR AND INFLUENCE PUBLIC OPINION.
00:20:37ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HAS CHANGED SINCE THE 1950S, BUT THE
00:20:41CAPACITY OF COMPUTER SYSTEMS TO
00:20:43INFLUENCE HOW WE ACT AND REASON
00:20:45HAS A HISTORY AND THE ROOTS OF
00:20:47THIS HISTORY ARE IN THE HISTORY
00:20:50OF COMPUTING. SO WITH MY TIME TODAY, I'D LIKE
00:20:54TO PRESENT A FEW HISTORY ARTICLE
00:20:56EXAMPLES THAT SHOW HOW THE HISTORY OF COMPUTING HAS BEEN
00:21:00ENTANGLED WITH EFFORTS TO INFLUENCE HUMAN BEHAVIOR AND
00:21:04THINKING. DURING THE WORLD WAR TWO, M.I.T.
00:21:09BASED MATHEMATICIAN NORBERT WIENER WORKED WITH ENGINEER
00:21:11JULIAN BIGELOW AT MIT'S
00:21:13RADIATION LABORATORY TO CREATE A
00:21:17DEVICE THAT COULD PREDICT THE PATH OF AN ENEMY AIRCRAFT.
00:21:21WITNESS. AND BIGELOW'S RESEARCH WAS SUPPORTED BY THE NATIONAL
00:21:24DEFENSE RESEARCH COMMITTEE.
00:21:26THE DEVICE THEY CREATED, THE ANTI AIRCRAFT PREDICTOR, WAS AN
00:21:30ELECTROMECHANICAL COMPUTER THAT
00:21:32USED DATA FROM RADAR TRACKERS TO
00:21:35MAKE A STATISTICAL FORECAST ABOUT THE FUTURE FLIGHT
00:21:38TRAJECTORY OF AN ENEMY AIRPLANE. THE PREDICTOR WAS CONNECTED TO
00:21:42AN AUTOMATIC GUN LANE SYSTEM TO
00:21:44AIM AT THE ENEMY TARGETS. OF COURSE, THE TRAJECTORY OF THE
00:21:48ENEMY AIRCRAFT WAS DETERMINED BY THE PILOTS DECISIONS.
00:21:52SO ESSENTIALLY, WIENER'S COMPUTER USED RADAR DATA TO
00:21:56PREDICT THE BEHAVIOR OF THE ENEMY PILOTS.
00:21:59NOR DID WIENER'S ANTI AIRCRAFT PREDICTOR WAS NEVER IMPLEMENTED
00:22:04ON THE BATTLEFIELD. ON A PRACTICAL LEVEL, IT WAS OF
00:22:07LITTLE VALUE, BUT ONLY THEORETICAL LEVEL.
00:22:09IT PRODUCED A MACHINE MAGICAL
00:22:11THEORY OF STATISTICAL PREDICTION
00:22:13AND A NEW INTERDISCIPLINARY
00:22:16APPROACH CALLED CYBERNETICS.
00:22:18CYBERNETICS ORIGINATES FROM A
00:22:20GREEK WORD DENOTING
00:22:22STATESMANSHIP OR GOVERNANCE. CYBERNETICS BECAME AN
00:22:26INTERDISCIPLINARY SCIENCE THAT
00:22:28THEORIZED HUMANS AND MACHINES AS
00:22:30INFORMATION PROCESSING SPECIES
00:22:33WHOSE BEHAVIOR IS SHAPED BY THE
00:22:35INFORMATION THEY RECEIVE FROM THE SURROUNDING WORLD.
00:22:39WIENER EXPLAINED THE MAIN TENETS
00:22:42OF THIS SCIENCE IN HIS 1948
00:22:44MONOGRAPH CYBERNET ETHICS OR
00:22:46CONTROL AND COMMUNICATION IN THE ANIMAL AND THE MACHINE.
00:22:49AND YOU CAN SEE THE COVER OF THIS MONOGRAPH IN THE HANDOUT
00:22:53THAT WAS DISTRIBUTED.
00:22:55WIENER'S WORK PROVED TO BE
00:22:57INFLUENTIAL ACROSS GEOGRAPHICAL
00:22:59AND RESEARCH CONTEXTS, AND IT
00:23:01BECAME ESPECIALLY RELEVANT IN
00:23:04THE FIELD OF COMPUTER NETWORK DEVELOPMENT.
00:23:07ONE COMPUTING PROJECT INSPIRED
00:23:10BY CYBERNETICS WAS THE PEDAGOGY
00:23:12SCHOOL COMPUTER NAMED PROGRAMED LOGIC FOR AUTOMATED TEACHING
00:23:16OPERATE OR PLATO. AND ONCE AGAIN, IF YOU LOOK AT IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE
00:23:20HANDOUT, YOU'LL SEE WHAT THAT COMPUTER LOOKED LIKE.
00:23:23SO THE PURPOSE OF PLATO WAS TO
00:23:25REPLACE HUMAN INSTRUCT US.
00:23:28THE FIRST VERSION OF PLATO WAS
00:23:30DEVELOPED AT THE COORDINATOR SCIENCES LABORATORY AT THE
00:23:33UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS IN 1959.
00:23:37DURING THE KOREAN WAR, THE COORDINATED SCIENCE LABORATORY
00:23:40WAS NAMED CONTROL OF SCIENCE
00:23:42LABORATORY, AND IT RECEIVED U.S. GOVERNMENT FUNDING TO CONDUCT
00:23:46RESEARCH THAT SUPPORTED THE U.S. WARTIME EFFORT.
00:23:49FOR INSTANCE, THE LABORATORY
00:23:51WORKED ON RADAR TECHNOLOGY AND COMPUTER CONTROLLED DEFENSE
00:23:55SYSTEMS. THE LABORATORY WAS HOME TO THE
00:23:58POWERFUL ELLIOTT COMPUTER, ONE OF THE FIRST MIDCENTURY DIGITAL
00:24:02COMPUTERS. SIX YEARS AFTER THE END OF THE KOREAN WAR, THE LABORATORY
00:24:07RECEIVED A MANDATE TO INCREASE COOPERATION WITH OTHER UNITS
00:24:10WITHIN THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS AND DEVELOP RESEARCH
00:24:14PROJECTS RELEVANT TO THE CIVILIAN NEEDS.
00:24:16THE PLATO PROJECT WAS A PART OF
00:24:19CIA CELLS RESEARCH REORIENTATION.
00:24:22PLATO WAS AN INTERACTIVE COMPUTER NETWORK CONSISTING OF
00:24:25COMPUTER TERMINALS CONNECTED TO THE ILIAC.
00:24:29A STUDENT LEARNING WITH THE PLATO COMPUTER SAT AT A TERMINAL
00:24:32WHERE THEY WERE PRESENTED WITH COURSE MATERIAL WHICH WAS FOLLOWED BY PROBLEMS AND
00:24:37QUESTIONS. THE SYSTEM ALLOWED STUDENTS TO
00:24:39CONTROL THE PACE OF THEIR STUDY FROM THE 1960S AND UNTIL THE
00:24:43LATE 1980S, PLATO WAS USED TO TEACH VIRTUALLY ANY SUBJECT.
00:24:47PLATO WAS A PRODUCT OF
00:24:49INTERDISCIPLINARY EXPERTISE, WHICH INCLUDED COMPUTER ENGINEERS AS WELL AS
00:24:55PSYCHOLOGISTS AND EDUCATORS. AT THE START OF THE PROJECT,
00:24:58PSYCHOLOGIST LAWRENCE WROTE,
00:25:00CONTRIBUTED TO THE DESIGN OF THE PLATO COMPUTER.
00:25:04STELLARIUM HELD A LAUNCH AND AN INTEREST IN THE DESIGN OF
00:25:08SPECIAL TEACHING MACHINES THAT COULD REPLACE HUMAN INSTRUCTORS.
00:25:12HIS INTEREST IN THE SUBJECT WAS IGNITED BY THE WORK OF HARVARD
00:25:15BASED PSYCHOLOGY SHIFT. B.F. SKINNER IN THE 1940S.
00:25:19SKINNER PERFORMED A SERIES OF EXPERIMENTS WITH ANIMALS TO
00:25:23ARGUE THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO ENGINEER THE BEHAVIOR OF LIVING
00:25:27ORGANISMS THROUGH CAREFULLY ARRANGED ENVIRONMENTAL STIMULI.
00:25:31FOR EXAMPLE, HE DEMONSTRATED HOW
00:25:33BY PRESENTING FOOD TO HUNGRY PIGEONS, IT WAS POSSIBLE TO
00:25:37TRAIN THEM, EXHIBIT SPECIFIC RESPONSES SUCH AS TURNING
00:25:40AROUND, STAMPING THE FOOD AND SO
00:25:42ON, AND DRAWING ON THESE EXPERIMENTS.
00:25:45SKINNER ARGUED THAT THE BEHAVIOR OF ALL ORGANISMS, INCLUDING
00:25:49HUMANS, COULD BE ENGINEERED BY
00:25:51CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT, MENTAL
00:25:54CONDITIONS. AT HARVARD, SKINNER WORKED ON DESIGNING TECHNOLOGY THAT COULD
00:25:58SHAPE HUMAN BEHAVIOR. AND ONE OF SUCH TECHNOLOGIES WAS
00:26:01THE MECHANICAL TEACHING MACHINE. SKINNER, I SHOULD NOTE, VIEWED
00:26:06LEARNING AS A FORM OF HUMAN BEHAVIOR.
00:26:08HIS MACHINES PRESENTED LEARNING
00:26:11MATERIAL IN SMALL, SPECIALLY ARRANGED INCREMENTAL STEPS.
00:26:14EACH OF WHICH WAS FOLLOWED BY A QUESTION OR A PROBLEM THAT
00:26:17REQUIRED A BRIEF ANSWER.
00:26:19SO THESE MACHINES ALLOWED STUDENTS TO PROCEED ONLY AFTER
00:26:24CORRECT RESPONSE. AND THIS ENTIRE PROCESS CONTROLLED STUDENTS LEARNING OF
00:26:28EVERY TINY PIECE OF MATERIAL. SO AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
00:26:31ILLINOIS, LAWRENCE STOLLER WAS A
00:26:33BIG PROPONENT OF SKINNER'S METHOD.
00:26:36BUT STILL, THE ROW ALSO SAW HOW SKINNER'S MACHINE COULD BE IMPROVED.
00:26:40AND HERE HE FOUND CYBERNETICS TO
00:26:43BE USEFUL IN BETWEEN HIS SCHEME
00:26:45PILOTS AND ANTIAIRCRAFT WEAPONS
00:26:48WERE BOTH SYSTEMS THAT MODIFIED THE BEHAVIOR BASED ON THE
00:26:52INFORMATION THEY RECEIVED FROM THE SURROUNDING WORLD.
00:26:56STILL, LAREAU AGREED WITH SKINNER THAT TEACHING TECHNOLOGY
00:26:59SHOULD DELIVER WELL CALIBRATED
00:27:01CUES, RESPONSES AND FEEDBACK
00:27:03LOOPS TO CONTROL STUDENT BEHAVIOR.
00:27:05BUT SIMILAR TO THE AIRCRAFT
00:27:09PREDICTOR, TEACHING TECHNOLOGY SHOULD BE ADAPTABLE. IT SHOULD ADJUST ITSELF BASED ON
00:27:13THE DATA IT RECEIVES ABOUT THE STUDENT AND THE DIGITAL COMPUTER.
00:27:18ACCORDING TO STELLA ROWE, COULD DELIVER SUCH AN ADAPTABLE FORM OF CONTROL.
00:27:22AND THIS IS THE VISION THAT STOLLER BROUGHT TO THE PLATO
00:27:26SYSTEM. STILL, THE ROW SOON LEFT THE
00:27:29PLATO PROJECT TO WORK ON ANOTHER COMPUTER BASED EDUCATIONAL
00:27:33SYSTEM. BUT THE EFFORT TO USE A DATABASE APPROACH TO BETTER CONTROL
00:27:37STUDENTS BEHAVIOR PERSISTED.
00:27:39IN 1964, ANOTHER PSYCHOLOGIST,
00:27:42JOHN EASLEY, JOINED THE PLATO PROJECT.
00:27:44HE LED A TEAM OF 19 RESEARCHERS
00:27:47WHO WERE TASKED WITH CREATING A
00:27:49PROGRAM THAT WOULD ALLOW PLATO
00:27:51TO RECORD AND ANALYZE STUDENT RESPONSE DATA.
00:27:55AND CALIBRATE THE EDUCATIONAL MATERIAL BASED ON THIS DATA
00:27:59ANALYSIS. THEIR WORK WAS SUPPORTED BY THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
00:28:04EDUCATION AND WELFARE AND THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE'S ADVANCED
00:28:07RESEARCH PROJECT AGENCY. EASLEY AND HIS COLLEAGUES HOPED
00:28:11THAT THE GIGANTIC AMOUNTS OF
00:28:13DATA COLLECTED ABOUT STUDENTS INTERACTIONS WITH THE PLATO
00:28:17SYSTEM, WHICH KEY THEY PRESS HOW MANY MINUTES THEY SPEND ON EACH
00:28:20QUESTION WOULD OFFER INSIGHT INTO STUDENTS STYLES OF THOUGHT
00:28:24AND LEARNING.
00:28:26THE IDEA WAS THAT SUCH A PROGRAM
00:28:28WOULD MAKE PLATO MORE ADAPTABLE TO INDIVIDUAL STUDENTS NEEDS.
00:28:32THE PROJECT LASTED FOR THREE YEARS AND EVENTUALLY EASILY
00:28:37ABANDONED IT IN 1967. BUT LATER HE WOULD CONFESS THAT
00:28:41HE WAS DROWNING IN THE OVERFLOW
00:28:43OF DATA SO EASILY, STEAM DID NOT
00:28:45MANAGE TO CREATE A PROGRAM THAT
00:28:48COULD TURN THE PLATO SYSTEM INTO A DATA DRIVEN TEACHING
00:28:52TECHNOLOGY. WHILE BEING UNSUCCESSFUL IS THIS
00:28:56PROJECT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST ATTEMPTS TO AGGREGATE DATA IN
00:29:00ORDER TO BETTER CONTROL USER
00:29:02BEHAVIOR VIA INTERACTIVE COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY.
00:29:06THIS WAS DONE IN GOOD FAITH. OF COURSE, THE INTENTION WAS TO
00:29:08MAKE EDUCATION MORE ACCESSIBLE.
00:29:12FROM THE VERY EARLY DAYS OF THE
00:29:14HISTORY OF THE DIGITAL COMPUTER AND COMPUTER NETWORKS, THE
00:29:18QUESTIONS OF HUMAN BEHAVIOR AND COGNITION PLAYED AN IMPORTANT
00:29:21ROLE IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS TECHNOLOGY AND THE HISTORY OF
00:29:25THE PLATO COMPUTER IS NOT THE ONLY EXAMPLE OF THAT.
00:29:29PSYCHOLOGIST JOSEPH LECLERC TO
00:29:32SET THE VISION FOR HOW THE OPEN YET A PRECURSOR OF THE
00:29:36CONTEMPORARY INTERNET COULD EXPAND AND ENHANCE THE COGNITIVE
00:29:40CAPACITIES OF ITS USERS. THE OPEN ACT WAS A WIDE AREA
00:29:44COMPUTER NETWORK DEVELOPED BY THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE'S
00:29:48ADVANCED RESEARCH PROJECTS AGENCY. THE NETWORK CONNECTED U.S.
00:29:53UNIVERSITIES AND RESEARCH INSTITUTES THAT CONDUCTED PIONEERING WORK IN COMPUTER
00:29:58ENGINEER AND COMPUTER SCIENCE AT ARPA.
00:30:00JOSEPH LEE COLLIDER DIRECTED INFORMATION PROCESSING
00:30:03TECHNIQUES OFFICE IN 1969 YEARS
00:30:06BEFORE THE ARPANET BECAME OPERATIONAL.
00:30:09THE CLYDE PUBLISHED AN INFLUENTIAL PAPER TITLED MEN
00:30:13COMPUTERS SYMBIOSIS, WHERE HE
00:30:15DESCRIBED AN INTERACTIVE COMPUTER NETWORK THAT WOULD
00:30:18ALLOW FOR A SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HUMAN MINDS
00:30:22WITH THEIR ABILITY FOR CREATIVE REASONING AND JUDGMENT.
00:30:25ON THE ONE HAND, AND COMPUTERS WITH THEIR SUPERIOR ABILITY FOR
00:30:29DATA STORAGE AND PROCESSING.
00:30:32IN THE 20TH CENTURY, COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN A PRODUCT OF
00:30:36INTO DISCIPLINARY EXPERTISE WITH PSYCHOLOGY, SETTING THE TASKS
00:30:40AND GOALS FOR THIS TECHNOLOGIES INTERACTIVE AND INFORMATION
00:30:45PROCESSING CAPABILITIES.
00:30:46IN THE 20TH CENTURY, COMPUTERS THEREFORE WERE CONCEIVED AS
00:30:51BEHAVIORAL AND COGNITIVE TOOLS TO INFLUENCE HUMAN BEHAVIOR AND
00:30:55THINKING IN THE EXAMPLES THEY PROVIDED TODAY.
00:30:58THERE WAS NO NEFARIOUS PLAN AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS,
00:31:02PSYCHOLOGISTS VIEWED BEHAVIORAL CONTROL AS A KEY TO BETTER
00:31:06EDUCATION, AND IT AUTHOR JOSEPH ALEC LEIDER SAW INTERACTIVE
00:31:11COMPUTING AS A TOOL TO ENHANCE HUMAN COGNITIVE CAPACITIES.
00:31:15RESEARCHERS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS AND ARPA WORK MOTIVATED
00:31:17BY GOOD INTENTIONS. AND WHILE THERE IS A CLEAR
00:31:21HISTORICAL TRAJECTORY IN THE
00:31:23DESIGN OF COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY TO INFLUENCE HUMAN BEHAVIOR AND
00:31:27THINKING, PRESENT DAY AI DRIVEN COMPUTER SYSTEMS ARE POWERED BY
00:31:32MASSIVE COMPUTING INFRASTRUCTURE AND PRIVATE INVESTMENT.
00:31:35GIVEN THEIR TECHNOLOGICAL POWER AND REACH, WE SHOULD PERHAPS BE
00:31:39EXTRA CAUTIOUS ABOUT THEIR CAPACITY TO INFLUENCE HOW WE THINK AND ACT.
00:31:43THANK YOU.
00:31:49GREAT. THANK YOU.
00:31:51SO IF I CAN GET THIS SET UP, I'M
00:31:56GOING TO PICK UP WHERE SARAH AND
00:31:58KUTCHER LEFT OFF BY TALKING ABOUT WHEN DIGITAL ELECTRONIC
00:32:02COMPUTERS STARTED TO PROVOKE ANXIETIES ABOUT PRIVACY AND SECURITY.
00:32:05SO IN THE 1960S, THAT PERIOD THAT KUTCHER SPOKE ABOUT A
00:32:08LITTLE BIT, ONE OF THE PERIOD SHE SPOKE ABOUT COMPUTERS WERE
00:32:12HUGE ROOMS AND THEY FILLED HUGE ROOMS. THEY'RE BIG MACHINES.
00:32:15THEY WERE SYMBOLS OF IMPERSONAL BUREAUCRATIC ORGANIZATIONS.
00:32:19THEY'VE SEEN A VERY DEHUMANIZING. SO WHEN THE UNITED STATES
00:32:23PROPOSED CREATING A CENTRALIZED DATABASE TO ALLOW FEDERAL
00:32:25AGENCIES TO SHARE INFORMATION ABOUT INDIVIDUALS, THERE WAS A
00:32:29MAJOR DEBATE ABOUT THAT. AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST DEBATES ABOUT THE IMPACTS OF
00:32:34COMPUTERIZED VERSION ON PERSONAL PRIVACY. SO JUST TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF
00:32:38THE KINDS OF CONCERNS THAT WERE RAISED AT ONE MAJOR COMPUTING
00:32:42CONFERENCE, THAT CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVE ARGUED THAT, QUOTE, AMERICA HAS ALWAYS
00:32:46REPRESENTED FOR ME A PLACE WHERE AN INDIVIDUAL COULD CHANGE HIS
00:32:49MIND, HIS BELIEFS AND OUTLOOK ON
00:32:51LIFE AND STILL BE ABLE TO LIVE AS A FREE AND VALUABLE COMPONENT
00:32:55OF OUR SOCIETY. THE AMERICA I HAVE DESCRIBED
00:32:58CANNOT BE THE SAME AMERICA,
00:33:00AFTER A CENTRALIZED COMPUTER SYSTEM, A SYSTEM WHICH NEITHER
00:33:04FORGIVES NOR FORGETS IS INTRODUCED END QUOTE.
00:33:06NOW, SOME COMPUTER SCIENTIST SUGGESTED THAT THIS WAS ACTUALLY
00:33:10THE WRONG WAY TO THINK ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGIES THAT WERE DEVELOPING.
00:33:14SO IN 1966, CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS, THE COMPUTER
00:33:16SCIENTIST, PAUL BARON, TESTIFIED, QUOTE, TODAY WE CAN
00:33:20SEE THE INDEPENDENT PRIVATE AUTOMATE INFORMATION SYSTEMS
00:33:23BEING INTERCONNECTED TO FORM
00:33:25LARGER GROWING SYSTEMS, WHICH ARE IN MANY WAYS MORE DANGEROUS
00:33:29THAN THE SINGLE DATA BANK. NOW BEING CONSIDERED. IN OTHER WORDS, IT WAS THE
00:33:33INTERNET NETWORKING OF MANY DIFFERENT SYSTEMS, MOSTLY
00:33:36CONTROLLED BY THE PRIVATE SECTOR, THAT WERE GOING TO
00:33:38EVENTUALLY POSE THE GREATEST THREAT. AND IF YOU'RE WONDERING WHY WE SHOULD LISTEN TO THIS GUY, PAUL
00:33:42BARON, HE'S THE PERSON WHO CAME UP WITH THE ARCHITECTURE FOR THE INTERNET. AND THE WHOLE ARCHITECTURE FOR
00:33:46PACKET SWITCHING. SO I START WITH THIS HISTORICAL
00:33:50MOMENT BECAUSE IT'S A REMINDER THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE FEATURES THAT ENABLE A.I. TODAY, THE
00:33:54INTERNET MASSIVELY INTERCONNECTED DATABASES WERE UNDER DEVELOPMENT 60 YEARS AGO
00:33:58AND PEOPLE WERE WORRIED THEN, RIGHT? SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT
00:34:02HAPPENED? RIGHT. WHY, DESPITE THESE EARLY WARNINGS, HAS ARTIFICIAL
00:34:06INTELLIGENCE BEEN DEVELOPED IN WAYS THAT CURRENTLY THREATEN PRIVACY AND SECURITY?
00:34:09AND I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IT DOESN'T ONLY THREATEN PRIVACY
00:34:13AND SECURITY, THERE ARE WAYS OF USING A.I. THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY A THREAT, BUT THERE
00:34:17ARE SOME REALLY LEGITIMATE CONCERNS OUT THERE. SO THERE'S NO SIMPLE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION.
00:34:20BUT I'M GOING TO ATTEMPT A PARTIAL ONE.
00:34:23PART OF THE ANSWER HAS TO DO WITH HOW WE CAME TO DEFINE SECURITY AND PRIVACY.
00:34:27SO IN THE 1970S, INFORMATION SECURITY CAME TO REFER TO THE
00:34:31CONFIDENTIALITY, INTEGRITY AND AVAILABILITY OF INFORMATION.
00:34:34SO CIA IS THE NICE ACRONYM THAT SEEMS FITTING.
00:34:38THAT TRIAD, THIS UNDERSTANDING
00:34:40OF SECURITY CAME FROM THE U.S.
00:34:42MILITARY INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES, AND IT WAS A RELATIVELY NARROW
00:34:46TECHNICAL DEFINITION. PRIVACY ON THE OTHER HAND, CAME TO BE SEEN AS SOMETHING BROADER
00:34:49AND MORE SUBJECTIVE, LARGELY DOMAIN OF CIVIL SOCIETY AND
00:34:53CIVIL GOVERNMENT. AND WE DEVELOPED A TENDENCY TO
00:34:56SEE SECURITY AND PRIVACY AS BEING IN TENSION, BECAUSE THERE
00:34:58ARE TIMES WHEN SOCIETY'S RIGHT TO KNOW OUTWEIGHS AN
00:35:02INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT TO PRIVACY. OBVIOUSLY, THAT'S A LOT OF WHY PEOPLE HAVE DRIVEN FOR THE
00:35:05RELEASE OF THE EPSTEIN FILES, FOR EXAMPLE. BUT THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER
00:35:08EXAMPLES LIKE THAT. SO PRIVACY HAD SOMETHING TO DO
00:35:12WITH CONFIDENTIALITY, INTEGRITY AND AVAILABILITY, EVEN FORMATION.
00:35:15BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT THE WAYS THAT INFORMATION, INCLUDING ERRONEOUS OR INACCURATE
00:35:19INFORMATION, CAN BE MISUSED. FOR EXAMPLE, TO DENY PEOPLE
00:35:23ACCESS TO HOMES, JOBS AND LOANS.
00:35:27MORE THINGS LIKE THAT. SO IT CAN HAVE A VERY DESTRUCTIVE EFFECT ON PEOPLE'S LIVES.
00:35:31AND THAT SENSE, WE CAN ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND VIOLATIONS OF PRIVACY
00:35:34AS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN SECURITY, BE UNDERSTOOD AS FREEDOM FROM
00:35:37FEAR, FREEDOM FROM WANT, AND THE FREEDOM TO PURSUE NEW OPPORTUNITIES.
00:35:40SO THAT'S JUST TO SAY THAT WE SHOULD RECOGNIZE THERE ARE MANY
00:35:43DIFFERENT KINDS OF SECURITY, NATIONAL SECURITY, INDIVIDUAL HUMAN SECURITY.
00:35:47THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS IN CONFLICT. AND PRIVACY ACTUALLY CAN BE
00:35:51UNDERSTOOD AS A KIND OF HUMAN SECURITY. BUT THEY'VE MOSTLY BEEN TREATED
00:35:55FAIRLY SEPARATELY. SO I'M IN IT AND THE REST OF MY COMMENTS ARE GOING TO MOSTLY
00:35:57FOCUS ON PRIVACY, SINCE THAT'S HOW IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED
00:36:00SEPARATELY FROM SECURITY. A LOT WAS DONE ON THE PRIVACY
00:36:03PROBLEM IN THE EARLY 1970S WITH MULTIPLE PIECES OF LEGISLATION
00:36:06PASSED, INCLUDING THE LANDMARK 1974 PRIVACY ACT. BUT SOME THINGS WERE VERY
00:36:11EXPLICITLY NOT DONE. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IN 1977, A
00:36:14FEDERAL COMMISSION ON PRIVACY
00:36:16ISSUED A MASSIVE REPORT, 654
00:36:19PAGES, DETAILING, QUOTE, AN OVERWHELMING IMBALANCE IN THE
00:36:22RECORD KEEPING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN AN INDIVIDUAL AND AN
00:36:25ORGANIZATION, MEANING THAT ORGANIZATIONS HAD ALL THE POWER.
00:36:28THEY MADE MANY RECOMMENDATIONS. THEY INCLUDED THAT THE US CREATE
00:36:32A NEW FEDERAL PRIVACY BOARD TO ISSUE GUIDELINES ON HOW TO
00:36:35PROTECT INDIVIDUAL PRIVACY BECAUSE THEY ANTICIPATED
00:36:39TECHNOLOGIES WERE GOING TO CHANGE AND WE NEEDED TO THINK
00:36:41ABOUT HOW PRIVACY PROTECTIONS SHOULD ADAPT TO NEW
00:36:44TECHNOLOGICAL CHANGES. NOW, THIS PRIVACY BOARD WAS NOT CREATED.
00:36:48IN FACT, MOST OF THE COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATIONS
00:36:51WERE NOT IMPLEMENTED. AND AS A RESULT, BY THE EARLY
00:36:541980S, PRIVACY LEGISLATION HAD, IN THE WORDS OF ONE HISTORIAN,
00:36:58QUOTE, FUNDAMENTALLY FAILED TO PROTECT THE PRIVACY INTERESTS OF
00:37:01AMERICAN CITIZENS AND, QUOTE. HE ALSO NOTED THAT THE US
00:37:05SITUATION WAS VERY DIFFERENT THAN THAT OF EUROPE, WHERE PRIVACY PROTECTION AGENCIES WERE
00:37:09CREATED. SOME OF THOSE SAME AGENCIES ARE
00:37:11TODAY PUSHING BACK ON ABUSES OF PRIVACY BY AI FIRMS, BUT
00:37:15REPEATED EFFORTS TO DEVELOP BETTER PRIVACY PROTECTIONS ARE
00:37:18PROPOSALS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE SOME KIND OF A BODY THAT WOULD
00:37:22ACTUALLY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN PUSHING FOR INDIVIDUAL
00:37:26PRIVACY PROTECTIONS. THOSE WERE NOT ACCEPTED.
00:37:28SO THOSE POLICY CHOICES THAT
00:37:30HAVE SHAPED THE KINDS OF A.I. DEVELOPMENTS THAT BECAME
00:37:33POSSIBLE AND PROFITABLE. SO WE'VE HAD SEVERAL WAVES OF EXCITEMENT ABOUT EYE CATCHING,
00:37:37MENTIONED A FEW SINCE THE 1950S.
00:37:40THE CURRENT WAVE FOCUSES ON NEURAL NETWORKS OR MACHINE
00:37:43LEARNING AND WHAT MOST DISTINGUISHES IT IS ITS DEPENDANCE UPON VAST AMOUNTS OF
00:37:47DATA AND PROCESSING POWER.
00:37:49AND THE BASIC MODELS UNDERLYING MACHINE LEARNING TODAY WERE
00:37:53DEVELOPED DECADES AGO. BUT IT WAS THE GROWTH AND COMMERCIALIZATION OF THE INTERNET.
00:37:56THAT THING THAT WAS GETTING
00:37:57STARTED IN THE 1960S WITHOUT ANY CORRESPONDING PRIVACY
00:38:02PROTECTIONS THAT ALLOWED THESE MODELS TO BE APPLIED IN WAYS THAT SOMETIMES THREATEN PRIVACY
00:38:06AND SECURITY. SO FOR MORE THAN TWO DECADES, COMPANIES LIKE GOOGLE AND NETA
00:38:10WERE DEVELOPING MASSIVE DATABASES ON USER BEHAVIOR, WHICH THEY COULD THEN SELL TO
00:38:14ADVERTISING FIRMS. AND THESE COMPANIES WERE
00:38:17PARTICULARLY WELL POSITIONED TO DEVELOP AI BECAUSE THEY COULD
00:38:20USE THE DATA OF THEIR USERS TO TRAIN THEIR A.I. MODELS.
00:38:24BUT EVEN COMPANIES THAT DIDN'T HAVE THAT COULD JUST SCRAPE THE
00:38:26INTERNET AND USE THAT FOR NEW
00:38:31INNOVATIONS, SOME OF WHICH HAD SOME REAL PRIVACY IMPACTS AND
00:38:35ACTUALLY HAVE DONE HARM TO PEOPLE. AND I GIVE SOME EXAMPLES OF THAT.
00:38:39IF WE HAVE TIME IN THE Q&A, THE COMPANIES HAVE BEEN MORE
00:38:42RESTRAINED IN SOME NATIONS THAN OTHERS. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, LAST YEAR META
00:38:46NOTIFIED FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM USERS IN EUROPE THEY'D BE USING
00:38:49THEIR PUBLIC POSTS TO TRAIN BETTERS, MACHINE LEARNING ALGORITHM.
00:38:53LAMA IT GAVE EUROPEAN USERS AN OPT OUT OPTION.
00:38:57ALTHOUGH IT WAS HARD TO USE.
00:38:59BUT BUT IT DIDN'T EVEN WARN U.S.
00:39:03USERS AND IT DID NOT GIVE USERS IN THE UNITED STATES AN OPT OUT
00:39:06BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE TO. OKAY.
00:39:09SO I'M JUST TO CLOSE, I'M GOING TO BRIEFLY TOUCH ON SECURITY AS
00:39:12TRADITIONALLY THAT SORT OF MORE NARROW CONCEPTION OF
00:39:16CONFIDENTIALITY, INTEGRITY, AVAILABILITY OF INFORMATION SYSTEMS.
00:39:18SO HOW AM I, I IMPACT SECURITY,
00:39:22CYBER SECURITY IN THAT MORE CONVENTIONAL, NARROW SENSE? THE FIRST THING TO NOTE IS THAT
00:39:26MACHINE LEARNING CAN BE USED FOR EITHER OFFENSE OR DEFENSE. IT CAN BE USED TO GENERATE NEW VIRUSES.
00:39:30ALSO TO FIND AND EXPLOIT NEW VULNERABILITIES IN SOFTWARE.
00:39:33IT CAN ALSO BE USED TO DEFEND AGAINST THE SAME THINGS.
00:39:37AND WHAT MAKES IT MOST EFFECTIVE IS, OF COURSE, THE WAY THAT IT'S USED.
00:39:40THE ORGANIZATION, THE SKILLS OF THE ATTACKER, THE DEFENDER.
00:39:43BUT IT'S ALSO TRUE THAT MACHINE
00:39:46LEARNING ENABLES NEW KINDS OF CYBER ATTACKS AND IN FACT,
00:39:49DECEPTION SEEMS TO BE ONE OF THE MOST EFFECTIVE USES OF AI.
00:39:54SO, FOR EXAMPLE, DEEPFAKES OF ELON MUSK APPEAR TO BE ONE
00:39:56PARTICULARLY POPULAR WAY FOR CRIMINALS TO SCAM PEOPLE.
00:40:00ONE HEALTH CARE WORKER REPORT REPEATEDLY SAW ADS ON TIK TOK
00:40:04AND FACEBOOK SHOWING ELON MUSK PROMOTING AN INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY.
00:40:07AND SHE LAUGHED ABOUT $10,000 IN
00:40:10THAT SCAM, WHICH WAS, OF COURSE, A DEEPFAKE OF MUSK.
00:40:14SO DECEPTION CAN BE USED NOT JUST TO SCAM INDIVIDUALS, BUT
00:40:16ENTIRE POLITIES. AND EVERY HIGH PROFILE POLICYMAKER TODAY HAS PROBABLY
00:40:21BEEN THE TARGET OF ONE OR MORE DEEP FAKES THAT ARE MEANT TO DENIGRATE THEM, MAKE THEM LOOK
00:40:25FOOLISH. AND OF COURSE, IT'S EASY TO GENERATE AND DISTRIBUTE THESE VIDEOS.
00:40:28SO ANY NATION THAT WISHES TO INFLUENCE U.S. ELECTIONS CAN USE
00:40:32A.I. TOOLS IN THEIR PROPAGANDA
00:40:34AND DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGNS FOR DEEP FAKES.
00:40:38CELEBRITIES ARE PROBABLY GOING TO BE UNAVOIDABLE BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH VIDEO OF THEM IN
00:40:41PUBLIC, BUT IT'S PRETTY EASY FOR MACHINE LEARNING TOOLS TO MIMIC.
00:40:45BUT EVERYDAY CITIZENS COULD BE BETTER PROTECTED FROM THOSE
00:40:48KINDS OF TOOLS THAT SPIN OUT DEEPFAKE -- OR OTHER FORMS OF
00:40:53HARASSMENT. AND MOST OF THOSE PRIVACY PROTECTIONS COULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE A LONG TIME AGO.
00:40:57BUT AT LEAST IN THE UNITED STATES, POLICYMAKERS HAVE LARGELY CHOSEN NOT TO.
00:41:00SO I JUST WANT TO CONCLUDE BY NOTING THAT WE OFTEN SORT OF
00:41:04THINK ABOUT WHAT'S THE IMPACT OF AI ON PRIVACY AND SECURITY.
00:41:07WE COULD ALSO THINK ABOUT THE
00:41:09WAYS THAT OUR POLICIES ON PRIVACY AND SECURITY HAVE SHAPED
00:41:12THE EVOLUTION OF AI SO THAT IT'S NOT A MATTER OF JUST THE IS
00:41:17INEVITABLY MOVING ALONG. AND THEN WE HAVE TO SOMEHOW FIGURE OUT HOW TO REIN IT IN OR
00:41:21RESPOND. THANK YOU. I'M GOING TO PASS IT OFF.
00:41:32I DID DRINK SOME WATER. YEAH. OTHERWISE I'LL BE UNABLE TO
00:41:36SPEAK MIDWAY THROUGH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
00:41:40MIGHT SOME OF THIS GIVE UP THIS
00:41:43FACADE OF WHATEVER THAT'S ABOUT? OKAY. ALL RIGHT. GRACE.
00:41:46THE TALL PERSON. YEAH. LAST YEAR. WE ARE.
00:41:50OKAY, SO LET ME FIRST START OFF
00:41:53BY SAYING HOW GRATEFUL I AM THAT I AM ABLE TO PARTICIPATE AT ALL.
00:41:56I REALLY ADMIRE ALL OF THESE SCHOLARS, AND IT'S A DELIGHT TO BE ALONGSIDE THEM.
00:42:00SPEAKING WITH YOU TODAY, I'M GOING TO ZOOM OUT AND MAYBE TALK
00:42:04AT A HIGHER LEVEL. I'M PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN
00:42:08HOW THE STORIES WE TELL ABOUT THE HISTORY OF AI SHAPE OUR
00:42:11CONCEPTIONS OF POSSIBLE RIGHT,
00:42:13AND NOT JUST WHAT WE THINK, WHAT
00:42:15OUR OPPORTUNITIES ARE, BUT WHAT
00:42:18OUR THREATS MIGHT BE, WHAT WE NEED TO BE RESPONDING TO. RIGHT?
00:42:23SO YOU'VE SEEN ALREADY LOTS OF
00:42:27EXAMPLES OF WHERE NEW TECHNOLOGIES DON'T JUST
00:42:33CONSTRAIN OR SERVE AS A NEW TECHNOLOGY TO PRODUCE NEW
00:42:35THREATS, NEW THINGS WE NEED TO RESPOND TO. RIGHT?
00:42:38SO IF I CAN FAIRLY TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS AND PUBLISH THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS OF YOU IN A
00:42:42NEWSPAPER, SUDDENLY YOUR NOTION OF PRIVACY CHANGES, RIGHT?
00:42:46IT CEASES TO BE JUST ABOUT PHYSICAL SPACE. IT BECOMES ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE,
00:42:50RIGHT? YOU SEE IT AGAIN IN TELEPHONES, RIGHT? CHALLENGING CONCEPTIONS OF
00:42:54PRIVACY. YOU SEE IT AGAIN IN LARGE DATABASES. YOU SEE IT AGAIN IN ACTUALLY A
00:42:57HISTORY OF EDUCATION THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN, NEW TECHNOLOGIES
00:43:03POSE NEW KINDS OF THREAT. SO THEY CHANGE WHAT IT MEANS TO
00:43:05HAVE PRIVACY. RIGHT.
00:43:10OKAY. LET ME SAY THIS.
00:43:14I THINK THAT MACHINE LEARNING AS
00:43:15A NEW KIND OF TECHNOLOGY SERVES
00:43:19AS A WAY OF BINDING IDEAS AND
00:43:21NATIONAL SECURITY AND PRIVACY
00:43:23TOGETHER, WHERE BEFORE YOU MIGHT HAVE CONSIDERED THEM IN SEPARATE SPHERES, RIGHT?
00:43:27IT SORT OF AS YOU WERE DISCUSSING NOW SUDDENLY YOU
00:43:30UNDERSTAND THEM AS THINGS THAT
00:43:31ARE IN TRACTABILITY RELATED, RIGHT?
00:43:35AND I'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT AT THE END ABOUT EXACTLY WHY THAT IS, WHY I THINK THAT'S
00:43:39THE CASE. BUT IN ORDER TO SORT OF
00:43:44UNDERSTAND HOW THAT HAPPENED HISTORICALLY, LIKE HOW WE CAME TO THINK OF NATIONAL SECURITY
00:43:47AND PRIVACY AS FUNDAMENTALLY INTERWOVEN IN THIS PARTICULAR
00:43:51SORT OF WAY IN THE PRESENT MOMENT, WE NEED TO LOOK AT HOW
00:43:53WE'RE TELLING THESE HISTORIES OF I.
00:43:57SO I WANT TO DO TWO THINGS. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT SORT OF HOW
00:44:01HISTORY, THE WAY I TALKED ABOUT PRIOR TO THE 20 TENS.
00:44:04AND THEN I WANT TO TALK ABOUT
00:44:06HOW THAT CHANGED AFTERWARDS.
00:44:08SO FIRST OF ALL, WHEN I CAME ON
00:44:11THE SCENE, I DON'T KNOW, IN 2013, I WAS USING BOOKS THAT
00:44:14WERE WRITTEN IN THE 1980S AND THE HISTORY OF I HADN'T CHANGED
00:44:18THAT MUCH UP UNTIL THAT POINT IN HISTORY.
00:44:20I WAS SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
00:44:22IF YOU'RE DOING A.I. IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE 20TH CENTURY,
00:44:26BEGINNING OF THE 21ST CENTURY, WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS
00:44:29MATHEMATICAL PROOF PROVING YOU'RE DOING A GAME, PLAYING
00:44:32LIKE CHESS. WHAT THAT MEANS IS YOU'RE
00:44:35PLAYING, YOU'RE DOING PROBLEMS FROM WHICH THERE'S WELL-DEFINED
00:44:39RULES AND WELL-DEFINED ANSWERS.
00:44:42SO THERE'S NO QUESTION WHEN YOU ARRIVE AT A CORRECT ANSWER, YOU
00:44:46KNOW WHAT IT IS. YOU KNOW, FROM THE BEGINNING WHAT THE CORRECT ANSWER IS AND
00:44:49WHAT THE MACHINE HELPS YOU DO IS ARRIVE AT THAT SOLUTION.
00:44:52WHETHER YOU'RE TRYING TO PROVE A MATH PROBLEM OR TRYING TO WIN A GAME OF CHESS.
00:44:56OKAY, THESE SORTS OF STORIES
00:44:58HAVE CENTER MADE, LEARNING AS A
00:45:01KIND OF OPTIMIZING.
00:45:03AND SO HUMANS FIGURE OUT WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE AND YOU GET THE MACHINE JUST TO OPTIMIZE.
00:45:07BUT HUMANS ARE GOOD AT DECIDING WHAT POSSIBILITIES SHOULD BE
00:45:11CONSIDERED. SO LET HUMANS DO THAT JOB. LET MACHINES OPTIMIZE, RIGHT?
00:45:15SO WE KNOW GOOD STRATEGIES WHEN WE PLAY CHESS.
00:45:19BUT HUMANS BUT MACHINES CAN
00:45:22MAYBE FIND NEW STRATEGIES BASED
00:45:24ON THE SORT OF VALUES AND IDEAS THAT WE HAVE. OKAY.
00:45:28THE PROBLEM THAT THIS NARRATIVE
00:45:30OF I HAS LEARNED HAS CREATED IS
00:45:34THAT IT'S REALLY CENTERED ON
00:45:36JUST A FEW GROUPS OF A.I. RESEARCHERS AT LIKE AT MIT, AT
00:45:42STANFORD, AT CARNEGIE MELLON. YOU KNOW, THE FIRST CONFERENCE,
00:45:45YOU KNOW, DARTMOUTH, RIGHT, IN 1956, ALWAYS GETS TALKED ABOUT
00:45:48AD NAUSEUM, EVEN THOUGH IT WASN'T EVEN AN ACTUAL CONFERENCE. PEOPLE SHOWED UP THROUGHOUT THE
00:45:52SUMMER AT DIFFERENT TIMES. NO ONE WAS EVER THERE AT THE SAME TIME, ALL TOGETHER.
00:45:56SO IT'S JUST EVEN BIZARRE THAT WE STILL TALK ABOUT IT THAT WAY.
00:45:59BUT IT'S REALLY TO REINFORCE
00:46:01THIS MODEL OF SCIENCE WHERE IF YOU WANT TO GET SOMETHING DONE,
00:46:05YOU SUPERCHARGE A FEW ELITE
00:46:08GROUPS WITH TONS OF MONEY. YOU DUMP MONEY ON THOSE GROUPS,
00:46:10AND THAT WILL THAT WILL PROGRESS YOUR SCIENCE RIGHT?
00:46:14THIS HAS GIVEN RISE TO A WHOLE BUNCH OF MYTHS.
00:46:16IF YOU BELIEVE THIS IS THE CORRECT STORY OF THE HISTORY OF
00:46:20A.I., THEN YOU REALLY FOCUS ON IN THE 1980S AND 1990S AND A
00:46:23SUDDEN UPHEAVAL. OH MY GOSH, NEURAL NETWORKS ARE
00:46:27SUDDENLY GREAT AT DOING THINGS THEY WEREN'T BEFORE, BUT WITH THE RISE OF GPUS SUDDENLY NOW
00:46:32THEY CAN ACCOMPLISH ALL THESE TASKS THAT THEY CAN NEVER DO BEFORE. AND THE PROBLEM WITH THIS
00:46:35NARRATIVE IN PART IS IT ASSUMES THAT EVERYONE WAS WORKING ON THE
00:46:39SAME PROBLEMS AND EVERYONE AGREED WHAT THOSE PROBLEMS WERE.
00:46:43AND THAT IS JUST HISTORICALLY INACCURATE. RIGHT?
00:46:46IN FACT, THERE WAS A WILD VARIETY OF BELIEFS ABOUT WHAT
00:46:50PROBLEMS WERE VALUABLE AND WHAT WERE THE PAYOFFS OF THOSE
00:46:53PROBLEMS, EVEN HOW TO SOLVE THOSE PROBLEMS.
00:46:56SO A WILD SET OF DIFFERENT IDEAS
00:47:00ABOUT WHAT WAS WORTH WORKING ON, RIGHT. AND THAT GETS COMPLETE LOST IN
00:47:03OUR SORT OF NARRATIVES ABOUT THE
00:47:05RISE OF A.I. AND WHAT'S IMPORTANT AND IT GETS LOST.
00:47:09THEN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HOW TO
00:47:10FUND OR OR DEVELOP AI NOW,
00:47:15RIGHT? YOU SEE THESE MODELS ABOUT THE
00:47:17HISTORY OF AI BEING THE RESULT
00:47:21OF A FEW ELITE GROUPS REALLY PLAYS INTO A NOTION THAT A
00:47:25PARTICULAR SET OF COMPANIES OR A PARTICULAR SET OF RESEARCH GROUPS ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT
00:47:29CAN MAKE THIS WORK RIGHT?
00:47:31SO CONTRAST THIS THEN TO A MAJOR
00:47:34SHIFT IN THE HISTORIES OF AI AND THE 20 TENS WHERE PEOPLE WERE
00:47:39TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHERE DID MACHINE LEARNING COME FROM?
00:47:41BECAUSE IN THESE HISTORIES OF AI, MACHINE LEARNING IS ALWAYS
00:47:45DERIDED AND NOT REALLY SEEN AS SOMETHING THAT VALUABLE.
00:47:47AND ALSO IN THESE HISTORIES OF AI, MACHINE LEARNING IS OFTEN
00:47:51NARROW DOWN TO JUST A FEW THINGS. MAYBE JUST NEURAL NETWORKS AND NOTHING ELSE.
00:47:55BUT IN FACT, MACHINE LEARNING IS EXPANSIVE. THERE'S MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF
00:47:58MACHINE LEARNING. THERE'S DECISION TREES, THERE'S
00:48:01MANY OTHER WAYS OF APPROACHING MACHINE LEARNING THAT HAVE
00:48:04NOTHING TO DO WITH NEURAL NETWORKS AND KNOWING THIS
00:48:08DIVERSITY OF DIFFERENT APPROACHES IS REALLY IMPORTANT. YOU SEE IT IN PATTERN
00:48:12RECOGNITION, FOR INSTANCE. YOU SEE IT IN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING, YOU SEE IT IN
00:48:16STATISTIC X, YOU SEE IT IN A
00:48:19VERY CITY OF PLACES THAT ARE NOT CALLING THEMSELVES A.I.
00:48:23RESEARCHERS, RIGHT? THESE ARE NOT IDENTIFY AI RESEARCHERS.
00:48:26AND YET THESE TECHNIQUES ARE SORT OF PROVIDING THEY'RE SORT
00:48:30OF THE FOUNDATION OF WHAT WE WOULD CALL A.I. TODAY. RIGHT.
00:48:34AND SO HISTORIANS IN 2010 SAID, WHERE DO THESE TECHNIQUES COME FROM?
00:48:38HOW DID THEY SUDDENLY COME TO BE CALLED A.I. WHEN FOR SO LONG
00:48:42THEY WERE CAST OUT AND SAID, THIS IS AN AI, THIS IS EVEN WORTH WORKING ON.
00:48:46THESE KINDS OF PROBLEMS FOCUSED
00:48:46ON THINGS LIKE GENERATING NEW
00:48:51HYPOTHESES, RIGHT? THEY FOCUSED ON PROBLEMS IN
00:48:53WHICH YOU DID NOT KNOW THE RULES AND YOU DID NOT KNOW THE CORRECT ANSWERS.
00:48:57AND IN FACT, YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THE SYSTEM.
00:49:00YOU WERE RADICALLY DUMB. YOU KNEW THAT YOU'RE YOU'RE SORT OF INFORMATION WAS SUPER
00:49:04LIMITED. YOU KNOW, THAT YOU DIDN'T HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEEDED
00:49:08AND YOU STILL HAD TO MAKE A DECISION. SO THESE TECHNOLOGIES OF
00:49:10DECISION MAKING EXPLICITLY, RIGHT.
00:49:12AND SO HOW DO YOU MAKE DECISIONS
00:49:14UNDER RADICAL UNCERTAINTY? THESE WERE THE KINDS OF PROBLEMS
00:49:17THAT MACHINE LEARNING RESEARCHERS AND PATTERN RECOGNITION RESEARCHERS REALLY FOCUSED ON.
00:49:23AND DEVELOPED QUITE INDEPENDENTLY FROM ME.
00:49:25I UP UNTIL, YOU KNOW, THE 1970S,
00:49:281980S, WHEN WHEN I SORT OF REMADE ITSELF. OKAY.
00:49:34SO I WANT TO CONCLUDE HERE THEN JUST BY SAYING HOW DO THESE NEW
00:49:38HISTORIES GIVE US SOME INSIGHT INTO QUESTIONS OF PRIVACY AND
00:49:41QUESTIONS OF NATIONAL SECURITY TODAY?
00:49:44WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WE SHOULD
00:49:47RECOGNIZE THAT MACHINE LEARNING
00:49:49HAS MADE IT SO THAT RELEVANT
00:49:52INFORMATION IS ANY INFORMATION THAT CAN BE CAPTURED ABOUT YOU,
00:49:55THAT CAN BE CORRELATED WITH SOMETHING THAT'S A RADICALLY
00:49:58DIFFERENT UNDERSTANDING OF PRIVACY THAN THAN CONCEPTIONS OF
00:50:02PRIVACY BEFORE. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT INFORMATION I HAVE, AS LONG AS I
00:50:06HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TOGETHER AND
00:50:09ENOUGH DATA ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE, I CAN START TO MAKE
00:50:13CLASSIFICATION OF THOSE PEOPLE. ARE THOSE THE RIGHT CLASSIFICATIONS? ARE THEY MEANINGFUL? WHO CARES?
00:50:17THEY ALLOW ME TO MAKE PREDICTIONS.
00:50:19ARE THOSE PREDICTIONS RIGHT? WHO KNOWS?
00:50:22OUTSIDE OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE, IT'S VERY THE INFRASTRUCTURE
00:50:25ITSELF MAKES IT POSSIBLE TO SORT OF JUDGE WHETHER THESE PREDICTIONS ARE CORRECT OR NOT.
00:50:30RIGHT. SO THIS IS RADICALLY DIFFERENT.
00:50:32WHO HAS A LOT OF DATA WILL USUALLY LARGE COMPANIES. RIGHT. AND SO THIS IS WHERE ISSUES OF
00:50:36ANTITRUST MIGHT ACTUALLY BEGIN TO PLAY A ROLE IN PRIVACY AND
00:50:40KIND OF A SURPRISING WAY BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T NECESSARILY REALLY THINK ANTITRUST WOULD PLAY A ROLE IN PRIVACY.
00:50:45WELL, HERE IT DOES. OKAY. OKAY. THE SECOND THING I WANT TO SAY
00:50:48ABOUT NATIONAL SECURITY, THEN, IF WE BELIEVE THIS STORY OF
00:50:52FUNDING A FEW GROUPS WITH BLANK
00:50:54CHECKS IS THE WAY TO GO, THEN WE
00:50:56WILL SORT OF CONSTRUCT OUR SCIENCE AND CONSTRUCT OUR
00:51:00FUNDING MODELS IN A VERY
00:51:02DIFFERENT WAY THAN WHAT SEEMS TO
00:51:05HAVE WORKED FOR MACHINE LEARNING, RIGHT? THE DEVELOPED MACHINE LEARNING
00:51:07ACTUALLY INVOLVED A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIFFERENT GROUPS TRYING A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT DID NOT DISAGREE WITH EACH
00:51:11OTHER. AND IT WAS ACTUALLY THE RANGE OF
00:51:15APPROACHES AND THE LACK OF AGREEMENT ABOUT WHAT THE RIGHT SOLUTION OR THE RIGHT QUESTION
00:51:19EVEN WAS THAT ALLOWED DIFFERENT KINDS OF MACHINE LEARNING
00:51:22APPROACHES TO BE SO SUCCESSFUL AS STRATEGIES FOR TRYING TO MAKE
00:51:27PREDICTIONS, MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THE WORLD RIGHT? SO IF WE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS
00:51:31NEWER SET OF HISTORIES, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHERE MACHINE
00:51:34LEARNING CAME FROM, HOW AND WHY
00:51:37IT CAME TO BE THINKABLE, THEN
00:51:39THAT GIVES US A REALLY DIFFERENT
00:51:41POSITION WITH WHICH TO JUDGE OUR
00:51:43FUNDING MODELS FOR SCIENCE AND I
00:51:47THINK I'LL STOP RIGHT THERE.
00:51:48THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.
00:51:58GREAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. AND SEE THIS IS TOO TALL FOR ME NOW.
00:52:02THANK YOU SO MUCH TO ALL OF OUR
00:52:06PANELISTS. AS A REMINDER, PLEASE WRITE DOWN YOUR QUESTIONS AND NO CARDS.
00:52:09YOU CAN HAND IT TO PENN OR BEN
00:52:13AND I WILL COMPILE THEM AND MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A VERY ROBUST
00:52:17Q&A. I WOULD LIKE TO START BY POSING
00:52:20A QUESTION TO OUR PANELISTS THAT IS STRAIGHT FROM THE CURRENT
00:52:24HEADLINES, AND THAT IS ABOUT THE
00:52:28NEGOTIATIONS THAT ARE CURRENTLY HAPPENING BETWEEN ANTHROPIC AND
00:52:31SECRETARY HEGSETH AND THAT THAT
00:52:33HAS RAISED ATTENTION TO THE
00:52:35DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT, WHICH IS ACTUALLY A PIECE OF COLD WAR
00:52:39LEGISLATION. AND I'M WONDERING IF OUR
00:52:41PANELISTS CAN KIND OF KIND OF THINK MORE BROADLY ABOUT THIS,
00:52:45THE HISTORICAL RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN THE DEPARTMENT OF
00:52:49DEFENSE, THE NATIONAL SECURITY STATE AND INFORMATION
00:52:52INDUSTRIES, AND HOW THAT CAN
00:52:54ILLUMINATE BOTH TENSIONS BETWEEN THE TWO ENTITIES AND POINTS OF
00:52:59COOPERATION. ANYONE CAN START.
00:53:02I'LL JUST JUMP IN BRIEFLY. SO YEAH, SO THE 1950 NATIONAL,
00:53:06THE PRODUCTION ACT WAS PASSED AT
00:53:09THE TIME OF THE KOREAN WAR,
00:53:11RIGHT WHEN THERE WAS A SENSE OF NATIONAL EMERGENCY AND THERE WAS
00:53:14A NEED TO PROVIDE SPECIAL INCENTIVES FOR THE PRIVATE
00:53:18SECTOR TO HELP THE U.S.
00:53:20GOVERNMENT FIGHT THAT WAR.
00:53:22AND IT'S BEEN INVOKED A LOT OF TIMES SINCE THEN IN DIFFERENT
00:53:26CONTEXTS. THAT WAS INVOKED DURING COVID, FOR EXAMPLE. RIGHT.
00:53:29TO ENCOURAGE COMPANIES TO REALLY
00:53:32HELP STOP A PANDEMIC.
00:53:34I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD AGREE THAT THE USE IN THE CURRENT
00:53:38CONTEXT IS SOMEWHAT UNUSUAL. AND THERE'S ALWAYS THE QUESTION
00:53:41OF WHAT THE EMERGENCY IS, BUT ALSO THE KIND OF THING THAT IS
00:53:45BEING ASKED OF ANTHROPIC, IF
00:53:47MAYBE A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN, SAY, ASKING A COMPANY TO PRODUCE
00:53:50A BUNCH MORE BOMBS. BECAUSE WHAT ANTHROPIC IS SAYING
00:53:53IS WE'RE NOT SURE HOW THIS WORKS.
00:53:55WE ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW THAT YOU
00:53:58CAN TRUST ACTUALLY, WE'RE PRETTY
00:54:00SURE YOU CAN'T ENTIRELY TRUST
00:54:02THE OUTPUTS IN ANY OBVIOUS WAY.
00:54:06WE STILL NEED TO FIGURE THIS OUT
00:54:08AND WE DON'T WANT TO JUST SAY HERE, HAVE AT IT.
00:54:11DO WHAT YOU WANT WITH IT.
00:54:13AND SO I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE
00:54:15SOURCES OF TENSION HERE, IS THAT IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT WHETHER THE
00:54:19EMERGENCY IS THE SAME AS IT HAS BEEN HISTORICALLY, AND ALSO
00:54:23WHETHER THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING ASKED FOR IS THE SAME.
00:54:28SO IT'S I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE ONE OF THE MAJOR ISSUES THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO GET
00:54:31HASHED OUT.
00:54:33ANY OTHER THAT I COULD SAY, I
00:54:36THINK, YOU KNOW, THE HISTORY OF
00:54:40THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN
00:54:42COMMERCIAL AND GOVERNMENT. WELL, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
00:54:47INFORMATION USE IS GOES BACK A,
00:54:50YOU KNOW, CENTURIES.
00:54:52AND THERE ARE THEY RAISE REALLY
00:54:55INTERESTING QUESTIONS BECAUSE I THINK MOST AMERICAN CITIZENS
00:54:59AREN'T AWARE OF THE POROUSNESS BETWEEN INFORMATION PUBLIC AND
00:55:03PRIVATE INFORMATION AGGREGATION AND USE.
00:55:05I MENTIONED JUST BRIEFLY IN MY
00:55:11COMMENTS, YOU KNOW, THE RISE OF
00:55:13THINGS LIKE THE TELEGRAPH
00:55:15SYSTEM, WHICH ALLOWED SUDDENLY THE GOVERNMENT TO COLLECT
00:55:20INFORMATION OR TO OBTAIN INFORMATION THAT WAS COLLECTED
00:55:22BY PRIVATE OPERATORS. AND THIS PATTERN HAS CONTINUED
00:55:28THROUGHOUT, YOU KNOW, THE DECADES SINCE.
00:55:32I'M AN OFTEN PRIVATE COMPANIES
00:55:36HAVE HAD BETTER ACCESS TO DATA
00:55:38THAN THE USUAL FEAR IN THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN.
00:55:42THE GOVERNMENT COLLECTING AND HOUSING AND WAREHOUSING INFORMATION ABOUT THEM.
00:55:46BUT IT'S ACTUALLY TYPICALLY COMMERCIAL ENTITIES HAVE BEEN
00:55:50BETTER AT THIS OR AHEAD OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ON THIS.
00:55:53I'M REMEMBERING THAT IN THE 19TH CENTURY, FOR INSTANCE, THE OR
00:55:56LATE 19TH CENTURY CREDIT AGENCIES HAD MUCH MORE OF A
00:56:00REACH INTO PEOPLE'S PRIVATE LIVES THAN THEY DID THEN.
00:56:04THEY SENT FBI AND SO FORTH.
00:56:08SO BUT I THINK SO I THINK THIS
00:56:10QUESTION OF THE POROUSNESS IS IN THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE
00:56:15GOVERNMENT, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE INFORMATION BROKERS.
00:56:19AND SCRAPERS AND AGGREGATORS IS
00:56:23A REALLY IMPORTANT ONE FOR US TO GET STRAIGHT IN TERMS OF JUST
00:56:27HOW WE UNDERSTAND AND CONCEIVE
00:56:29OF THE POSSIBILITIES FOR BOTH
00:56:31OUR SECURITY AND OUR PRIVACY AND
00:56:35WELL, WE'LL CONTINUE TO COME UP AND I THINK THAT THE ANTHROPIC
00:56:37CASE IS A REALLY INTERESTING INSTANCE WHERE WE'RE SEEING THAT
00:56:41PLAY OUT AS A REAL ACTUAL STRUGGLE RATHER THAN A KIND OF
00:56:44BEHIND THE SCENES ONE, WHICH IS TYPICALLY BEEN THE CASE.
00:56:48I DON'T THINK MOST AMERICANS HAVE HAVE BEEN AS AWARE IN THE
00:56:50PAST OF THE KIND OF RELATIONSHIP
00:56:54BETWEEN THESE ENTITIES AS BEHIND THE SCENES TO SOLVE VARIOUS
00:56:57KINDS OF NATIONAL SECURITY PROBLEMS OR SO FORTH AS THEY'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW.
00:57:02EXCELLENT, GREAT. WE HAVE SOME EXCELLENT QUESTIONS.
00:57:06SO MOVING FORWARD, COULD YOU EXPLAIN THE CONDITIONS THAT
00:57:09CONTRIBUTED TO PREVIOUS AIR WINTERS AND WHAT MIGHT LOOK
00:57:13SIMILAR OR DIFFERENT TO THE
00:57:15CURRENT PERIOD OF AIR EXUBERANCE?
00:57:18SO WHAT REALLY GENERATES INVESTMENT IN OR PERHAPS
00:57:22RETRACTION FROM AN INVESTMENT IN
00:57:23NEW TECHNOLOGIES.
00:57:27YEAH, I'M I'M HAPPY I'M HAPPY TO
00:57:29SPEAK ABOUT AT LEAST ONE OF THE
00:57:32AIR WINTERS. SO WHEN I BEGAN MY TALK, I
00:57:35MENTIONED THE LOGIC THEORY MACHINE. THIS, YOU KNOW, THIS COMPUTER
00:57:39PROGRAM THAT MADE MATHEMATICAL PROOFS.
00:57:41SO THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THIS
00:57:44SYMBOLIC A I IT'S VERY DIFFERENT
00:57:46FROM THE DATA DRIVEN A.I., WHICH
00:57:48IS UBIQUITOUS THESE DAYS.
00:57:50WHAT SYMBOLIC A.I. DOES IS THAT
00:57:53IT JUST, YOU KNOW, IT'S A A
00:58:00ENCODES A CERTAIN OPERATIONS FOR EXAMPLE, THE SOLUTION OF A
00:58:03MATHEMATICAL PROOF, RIGHT?
00:58:04THE ALGORITHM DOESN'T WORK WITH
00:58:08DATA, DOESN'T FIND REGULARITIES IN DATA.
00:58:10IT JUST IT JUST FOLLOWS THOSE
00:58:14THE STEPS THAT WERE ALREADY INSERTED INTO THE PROGRAM.
00:58:18AND SO, OKAY, SO THE LOGIC THEORY MACHINE ESTABLISHED THIS
00:58:22ENTIRE SYMBOLIC AI APPROACH,
00:58:26WHICH WAS DOMINANT, I THINK UNTIL THE 1990S.
00:58:30ROUGHLY SPEAKING.
00:58:32IT REALLY PEAKED IN THE 1980S WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE
00:58:36EXPERT SYSTEMS. SO EXPERT SYSTEMS WERE DOMAIN
00:58:41SPECIFIC AI SYSTEMS THAT THEY
00:58:41WERE CREATED FOR MEDICAL
00:58:47DIAGNOSIS FOR AIRLINE COMPANIES,
00:58:53YOU KNOW, IN ORDER TO MAKE
00:58:55DECISIONS ABOUT THIS CELLS.
00:58:57AND SO ON.
00:58:59ACTUALLY A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE, I THINK WE, ALL OF YOU, IF YOU
00:59:03FILE TAXES IN THE UNITED STATES, USE AN EXPERT SYSTEM.
00:59:06IF YOU USE TEXT FILE SOFTWARE.
00:59:12SO THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF AN EXPERT SYSTEM.
00:59:14IT'S IT'S IN ENCODES IN THE FORM OF THE RULES.
00:59:17THE THE EXPERT'S REASONING.
00:59:20SO THE EXPERT SYSTEMS SAW THAT BOOM IN THE 1980S.
00:59:23IT TAKES QUIET A LOT OF TIME AND
00:59:27EFFORT TO DEVELOP AN EXPERT SYSTEM BECAUSE IN ORDER TO
00:59:30DEVELOP IT, YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY
00:59:32SIT DOWN WITH A GROUP OF EXPERTS
00:59:34AND INTERVIEW THEM AND ASK THEM HOW THEY APPROACH A CERTAIN PROBLEM.
00:59:38HOW DID HOW DO THEY DECIDE IF
00:59:40YOU ARE EXEMPT FROM, YOU KNOW, A
00:59:43CERTAIN TAX CATEGORY, HOW WOULD
00:59:45YOU RECOGNIZE A CERTAIN NUMBER
00:59:47OF SYMBOLS AS A CERTAIN DISEASE AND SO ON?
00:59:51AND SO WHILE THEY WERE
00:59:53COMMERCIAL SUCCESSFUL, THEY THEY REQUIRED A LOT OF TIME AND A LOT
00:59:57OF RESOURCES.
00:59:58AND SO THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE
01:00:03THE FIRST DAY I WINTER RIGHT THERE.
01:00:05THE DECLINE IN THE DEMAND IN THE
01:00:07EXPERT SYSTEM AND THE RISE IN URGENCY IN FINDING A DIFFERENT
01:00:11APPROACH WHICH IS A DATA DRIVEN APPROACH. YEAH.
01:00:14AND I JUST WANT TO ADD TO THAT. SO I WANT TO SAY, FIRST OF ALL,
01:00:18AIR WINTERS ARE PERSPECTIVE DEPENDENT.
01:00:22AND I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH AND IT SORT OF SPEAKS TO THE
01:00:24POINT I WAS MAKING EARLIER, THAT
01:00:27IF YOU ONLY LOOK AT A FEW ELITE
01:00:29GROUPS AND A FEW UNIVERSITIES
01:00:33FROM LIKE THE 1950S TO THE 1980S, THEY WERE FUNDED ALMOST
01:00:36ENTIRELY BY RPA AND A FEW OF THE PLACES BLANK CHECKS.
01:00:40AND SO WHEN SUDDENLY THAT MONEY WAS TAKEN AWAY, IT MUST HAVE
01:00:44REALLY FELT LIKE AN EARTHQUAKE AND THOSE THREE LABS. RIGHT.
01:00:47OR THE I'M BEING A LITTLE OVER THE TOP. BUT LIKE, YOU KNOW, IN THAT VERY
01:00:51SMALL GROUP OF RESEARCH RESEARCHERS. RIGHT. BUT IF YOU START TO LOOK AT
01:00:55OTHER PLACES WHERE MACHINE LEARNING TECHNIQUES ARE BEING DEVELOPED, FOR INSTANCE, AND
01:00:57PATTERN RECOGNITION, YOU WILL SEE THAT THERE ARE MANY, MANY
01:01:02COMPANIES, SMALL COMPANIES YOU
01:01:04DON'T HEAR ABOUT GETTING FUNDED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE AND
01:01:07THEIR FUNDING NEVER STOPS. RIGHT? HOW DO YOU GET SPY SATELLITES?
01:01:11RECOGNIZE TANKS OR MISSILES IN SATELLITE IMAGES?
01:01:14THESE COMPANIES JUST CONTINUE TO GET PAID FOREVER.
01:01:17THERE'S NO WINTER, SO IT REALLY
01:01:19DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU'RE LOOKING.
01:01:21YOU CAN I CAN INVENT I WINTER'S LIKE MAGIC.
01:01:24I CAN MAKE THEM DISAPPEAR LIKE MAGIC.
01:01:27IT JUST DEPENDS WHERE I LOOK. SO I THINK THAT CHANGES THE QUESTION TO BE LIKE INSTEAD OF
01:01:31TALKING ABOUT WINTER IS, IS SORT OF LIKE INEVITABLE THING THAT WE
01:01:36HAVE TO BE AFRAID OF. WE CAN RATHER SAY, WHY ARE WE
01:01:40LOOKING AT THESE PARTICULAR GROUPS?
01:01:43WHY THESE RESEARCH COMMUNITIES AND NOT OTHERS?
01:01:45AND LIKE WHAT ARE THE STAKES OF LOOKING AT THOSE GROUPS RATHER
01:01:48THAN OTHER ONES? RIGHT? SO THAT'S THAT. SO I HAVE A LOT TO SAY ABOUT
01:01:52WINTERS AND HOW I THINK THAT'S THE WRONG WAY TO GO. BUT LIKE THAT GIVES YOU SOME
01:01:55INSIGHT INTO WHY WE MIGHT WANT TO QUESTION A WINTERS.
01:01:58IT'S LIKE A FRAMING NARRATIVE. MM HMM. EXCELLENT.
01:02:02WELL, LET'S SHIFT THE FOCUS A
01:02:04LITTLE BIT TO ADDRESS THIS QUESTION ABOUT THE HISTORICAL
01:02:08CONTEXT OF AI AND THE TECHNOLOGICAL IMPACT ON THE
01:02:12WORKFORCE. SO IF WE KIND OF SHIFT TO THESE QUESTIONS A LITTLE BIT MORE
01:02:15TOWARDS LABOR WORK, WHAT ROLE
01:02:18PERHAPS DO NEW TECHNOLOGIES OR THE PRESSURES THAT THEY MIGHT
01:02:23BRING TO QUESTIONS OF LABOR AND
01:02:28WORK. I CAN JUST JUMP IN HERE.
01:02:31SO, I MEAN, WHAT WE USUALLY SEE IN FRONT OF.
01:02:34THIS IS ALSO A VERY OLD CONCERN, RIGHT, THAT TECHNOLOGY IS GOING
01:02:38TO DISPLACE WORKERS.
01:02:40AND WHAT YOU USUALLY SEE IS THAT A FEW JOBS ARE REPLACED BY
01:02:44COMPUTERS, BUT MUCH MORE. WHAT HAPPENS IS WORK CHANGES AND
01:02:48WORK GETS REORGANIZED AND PEOPLE
01:02:50LEARN NEW SKILLS AND AND ARE
01:02:53ASKED TO DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY. AND SO WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF
01:02:56THAT HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. IT'S NOT REALLY CLEAR WHERE IT'S
01:03:00GOING TO SHAKE OUT. I DO THINK THAT SOME COMPANIES ARE VERY EXCITED ABOUT THE
01:03:03POSSIBLE POSSIBILITY OF DOWNSIZING AND THIS IS SOMETHING
01:03:07THAT IS OF GREAT CONCERN. I WILL SAY I'M AN EDUCATOR, RIGHT.
01:03:11AND SO MANY OF MY STUDENTS ARE
01:03:13DEPRESSED AND NOT SURE IF AND
01:03:15UNDERSTANDABLY, LIKE REALLY
01:03:17ANXIOUS ABOUT WHAT THE CAREER
01:03:20WORLD IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE, WHAT THE JOB MARKET'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE.
01:03:24AND AND WONDERING WHETHER
01:03:26THERE'S EVEN ANY POINT IN LEARNING STUFF ANYMORE BECAUSE, HEY, I CAN DO IT.
01:03:30ALL RIGHT. AND THE ANSWER IS NO. IT TOTALLY CANNOT DO IT ALL.
01:03:34YEAH, I THIS GREAT CONVERSATION
01:03:37WITH MY STUDENTS YESTERDAY WHERE I CAME UP WITH ONE PROMPT AND
01:03:39THEN I HAD A I COME OVER THE PROMPT AND I ASKED IF THEY COULD TELL THE DIFFERENCE AND THEY ALL
01:03:43COULD TELL THE DIFFERENCE.
01:03:45I COULD NOT GET ANY MORE CONTEXT, DID NOT HAVE THE
01:03:48BROADER CONTEXT, BUT COULDN'T
01:03:50THINK ABOUT THINGS IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
01:03:53IT DIDN'T HAVE THAT ABILITY TO BRING IN NEW INSIGHTS OR
01:03:58PERSPECTIVES OR CONNECT DIFFERENT PIECES OF INFORMATION THAT HAD NOT BEEN INCLUDED
01:04:03ORIGINALLY. IT JUST AVERAGES OUT WORDS, RIGHT?
01:04:05SO WHICH CAN BE VERY USEFUL SOMETIMES.
01:04:08AND ALSO IT MADE ERRORS, DEMONSTRABLE ERRORS, WHICH
01:04:11NOBODY CAUGHT UNTIL I POINTED IT OUT ANYWAY.
01:04:15SO SO, YOU KNOW, THE ONE THING
01:04:18TO REMEMBER IS DON'T LET
01:04:20YOURSELF BE REPLACED BY EITHER. IF YOU'RE A YOUNG PERSON, DON'T
01:04:23LET YOURSELF BE REPLACED BY A.I. THAT'S WHAT I TELL MY STUDENTS, BY REFUSING TO LEARN HOW TO DO
01:04:27ANYTHING THAT I CAN'T. IN OTHER WORDS, DON'T LET A.I.
01:04:31DO ALL YOUR HOMEWORK FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE ACTUALLY MISSING OUT ON SOMETHING.
01:04:35I'VE RECOMMENDED THAT EVERYBODY HERE IS IN THAT KIND OF
01:04:39SITUATION. BUT SO, YEAH, I WORK IS GOING TO CHANGE.
01:04:42IT'S ALWAYS BEEN CHANGING IN RELATION TO TECHNOLOGY, THE WAY I DO MY JOB NOW IS VERY
01:04:46DIFFERENT THAN I DID IT 20 YEARS AGO.
01:04:49EVEN, AND IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T MEAN THAT
01:04:52ALL THE JOBS ARE GOING AWAY OR THAT I CAN DO THE JOB THAT YOU DO NOW. IT CAN'T.
01:04:55ONLY YOU CAN DO THAT. MM HMM. CAN I JUST JUMP IN?
01:04:59I'LL ECHO A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT REBECCA SAID.
01:05:02AND I THINK ALL OF US WHO ARE CLASSROOM TEACHERS ARE THINKING
01:05:06ABOUT THIS IN A VERY SPECIFIC WAY WITH MANY OF OUR STUDENTS
01:05:08BECAUSE IT IS AN ANXIETY THAT'S THERE IN THE CLASSROOM.
01:05:12AND WHILE I THINK IT IS REALLY
01:05:14USEFUL TO THINK ABOUT HISTORICAL MIS PREDICTIONS ON THIS SCORE.
01:05:18SO THE IDEA THAT AUTOMATION FACTORY AUTOMATION WAS GOING TO
01:05:22GIVE US FOUR DAY WORKWEEKS AND A 20 HOUR WORKWEEKS AND THINGS
01:05:25LIKE THIS AND IMAGINE AND IMAGINE THE LEISURE SOCIETY IN
01:05:29THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY AND SO FORTH.
01:05:31I DO THINK IT WOULD BE I THINK
01:05:35IT BEHOOVES US TO THINK ABOUT WHAT MIGHT BE DIFFERENT ABOUT
01:05:38GENERATIVE AI AND WHAT IT IS ABLE TO DO, DISPLACING DIFFERENT
01:05:43KINDS OF WORKERS. PERHAPS THEN EARLIER
01:05:46TECHNOLOGIES DID AND TO THINK REALLY CAREFULLY ABOUT THE
01:05:50POSSIBILITY THAT THIS MAY BE A DIFFERENT KIND OF TRANSITION
01:05:54THAT WE'RE WE'RE UP FOR AND THAT
01:05:56MAYBE OUR PAST PREDICTIONS ARE NOT GOING TO SERVE US VERY WELL
01:06:00HERE. WE'RE READING IN ONE OF MY CLASSES RIGHT NOW, WE'RE READING
01:06:04CALLED SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY AND
01:06:06VALUES OR READING THE CHECK PLAY FROM 1921.
01:06:09I THINK IT IS THAT INVENTED THE
01:06:11TERM ROBOT AND YOU KNOW, THE
01:06:15PREDICTIONS MADE THERE, YOU KNOW, SOUND REALLY ZANY IN SOME WAYS TO US.
01:06:19BUT BUT I DO THINK BUT I DO
01:06:23THINK WE'RE POSSIBLY IN FOR MORE
01:06:25TRANSITION THAN WE HAVE.
01:06:29YOU KNOW, THEN WE MAY BE PREPARED FOR AND AND THAT NO
01:06:32MATTER WHETHER WE ARE OR NOT, THAT WE NEED TO TAKE VERY
01:06:36SERIOUSLY THE CONCERNS THAT AND
01:06:41THINK MAYBE PROACTIVELY ABOUT HOW WE'RE PREPARING PEOPLE FOR A
01:06:43POSSIBLE TRANSITION IN THAT THE
01:06:46NATURE OF WORK.
01:06:49YEAH. SO I ALSO WANT YOU TO QUICKLY
01:06:52FOLLOW UP ON THIS BECAUSE SARAH
01:06:56JUST MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE PREPARE PEOPLE FOR THIS
01:07:00TRANSITION AND FOR THE CHANGES
01:07:01THAT THE A.I. BRINGS TO THE, YOU
01:07:04KNOW, WORK AND LABOR?
01:07:08SO ONE THING THAT I SEE IN MY RESEARCH IS THAT WHENEVER NEW
01:07:14TECHNOLOGY EMERGES, THERE ARE
01:07:16PEOPLE START MAKING AN ARGUMENT
01:07:19THAT, OKAY, SO TO PREPARE PEOPLE
01:07:21TO CREATE THIS TECHNOLOGY AND,
01:07:23YOU KNOW, WORK WITH THIS TECHNOLOGY, WE NEED TO USE THIS
01:07:27TECHNOLOGY IN EDUCATION.
01:07:28SO WE NEED TO WE NEED TO CHANGE
01:07:31HOW WE TRAIN PEOPLE. WE EMPLOY THIS TECHNOLOGY TO
01:07:34TRAIN THEM, HOW TO FURTHER CREATE THIS TECHNOLOGY.
01:07:38LIKE, YOU KNOW, SPEAKING ABOUT
01:07:39EDUCATIONAL COMPUTING, THAT AGE WAS DISCUSSED.
01:07:43ONE OF THE IDEAS WAS THAT IT WOULD JUST TEACH BETTER
01:07:46SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS THAT
01:07:48ARE REQUIRED BY THE INFORMATION SOCIETIES, RIGHT?
01:07:52THE SOCIETY. IT IS WHERE COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY
01:07:55IS UBIQUITOUS, BUT, YOU KNOW, A
01:07:57HISTORICAL ANALYSIS DEMONSTRATES
01:08:00THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY PRETTY SHORT SIGHTED. IT'S RIGHT IF WE JUST CHANGE OUR
01:08:06EDUCATION AND ACCORDING TO THIS
01:08:08SHORT TERM FORECASTS ABOUT LABOR
01:08:13AND WORKFORCE, THEN ACTUALLY WE
01:08:15ARE LEADING OUR STUDENTS INTO A
01:08:17TRAP AND WE'RE PREPARING THEM PERHAPS FOR THE NEXT 5 OR 10 YEARS.
01:08:23BUT A LONG TERM WE PUT THEM IN A
01:08:25PRETTY DISADVANTAGED POSITION.
01:08:29WELL, WELL, THAT ACTUALLY LEADS
01:08:31TO A QUESTION FOR THE AUDIENCE
01:08:35THAT ONE OF THE AUDIENCE MEMBER
01:08:37RAISED, AND THAT IS HOW MANY OF
01:08:39YOU USE AI IN YOUR WORK TO WRITE
01:08:41MEMOS OR TO DO KEY PARTS OF YOUR
01:08:46WORK. AND DID YOU LEARN IT ON THE JOB
01:08:49OR IS IT SOMETHING THAT YOU
01:08:52LEARNED ON THE JOB OR SOMETHING THAT YOU LEARNED AT LIKE DURING
01:08:57YOUR STUDIES, DURING YOUR EDUCATION ON THE JOB, LEARNING IT?
01:09:01AND DO YOU THINK THAT WAS
01:09:02IMPLEMENTED INTO CURRICULUM AND
01:09:08I THINK IS I THINK ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS YOU CAN'T
01:09:11REALLY AVOID HOW PART OF YOU IF
01:09:16YOU GOOGLE OR AND I THINK THAT
01:09:18SOMETIMES PEOPLE THINK THEY HAVE TO GO OVER TO CHAT T OR CLOUD OR
01:09:23WHATEVER BUT IT'S ALREADY THERE.
01:09:25IT'S IN OUR MICROSOFT THREE. MM HMM.
01:09:30SO HOW AM I? IT'S A THAT'S A REALLY EXCELLENT
01:09:32POINT ABOUT THE UBIQUITOUS OF,
01:09:35OF AI IN EDUCATIONAL TOOLS.
01:09:37AND SO IF WE THINK HISTORIC
01:09:40ACTUALLY ABOUT THIS CONCEPT, HOW
01:09:42HAVE SOME OF THESE NEW TECHNOL OLOGIES THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT,
01:09:45HOW HAVE THEY RESHAPED, YOU
01:09:47KNOW, PEDAGOGY AND EDUCATION?
01:09:51AND IS IT AS PERVASIVE AND QUICK
01:09:53IN TERMS OF THE SPREAD OF THAT?
01:09:55AND WHAT DOES THAT DO TO EDUCATIONAL PRACTICES
01:10:00HISTORICALLY.
01:10:04YOU KNOW, I THINK LOTS OF US
01:10:07PROBABLY HAVE SOME THOUGHTS ON THIS, BUT I'LL BEGIN BY SAYING,
01:10:11YOU KNOW, I THINK MANY OF THE
01:10:15AMBITION NEEDS OF EDUCATORS TO USE NEW TECHNOLOGIES HAVE NOT
01:10:19BORNE OUT IN THE WAY THAT WERE
01:10:24PREDICTED. I THINK PLATO IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.
01:10:26BUT, YOU KNOW, FILMSTRIPS,
01:10:29RADIO, TELEVISION, ALL OF THESE THINGS WERE GOING TO BRING, YOU
01:10:33KNOW, NEW DEMOCRATIC ACCESS,
01:10:34REPLACE HUMAN TEACHERS OR AT
01:10:37LEAST FACE TO FACE TEACHING AND INSTRUCTION IN WAYS THAT HAVE
01:10:42NOT, YOU KNOW, HAVE NEVER
01:10:45SATISFACTORILY, I WOULD ARGUE, REPLACE THE KIND OF HUMAN
01:10:48INTERACTION OF THE CLASSROOM AND MORE OF EDUCATION. BUT THERE'S THIS OTHER ISSUE
01:10:51THAT I THINK WE'RE FACING NOW.
01:10:53WHILE SOME OF THESE PEDAGOGICAL
01:10:57OR TECHNOLOGICAL TOOLS IN PEDAGOGY FOR INSTANCE, WERE HAVE
01:11:01BEEN TRIED IN THE PAST, WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW WITHOUT A LOT
01:11:04OF DEBATE OR A LOT OF PUBLIC
01:11:06KNOWLEDGE, EVEN, IS THE BUYING
01:11:11UP BY WHOLE SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT OF COURSEWARE
01:11:15THAT ARE INFRASTRUCTURAL IN A
01:11:18NEW WAY IN OUR SYSTEM.
01:11:21SO IT MEANS THAT STUDENTS ARE,
01:11:24WHETHER THEY WANT TO OR NOT, BOTH BEING KIND OF SOLICITED
01:11:28INTO A WHOLE, YOU KNOW, PRIVATE
01:11:30COMMERCIAL SYSTEM OF COURSEWARE
01:11:34OR OF DATA TRACKING THE IN WAYS
01:11:37THAT ARE NEW AND MORE
01:11:39UBIQUITOUS, WHICH I THINK, YOU KNOW, DOES POSE CERTAIN KINDS OF
01:11:43PROBLEMS. IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHETHER IT'S
01:11:45A DISCIPLINARY OR RECORDKEEPING,
01:11:50ACADEMIC CREDENTIAL KEEPING OR
01:11:52THOSE KINDS OF SYSTEMS THAT ARE.
01:11:57SUSCEPTIBLE TO OTHER USES, I GUESS IS THE EASIEST WAY TO SAY IT.
01:12:01YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE ONGOING PROBLEMS WITH NEW DATABASE
01:12:05TECHNOLOGIES ARE THEY'RE CREATED FOR ONE REASON AND THEN CAN BE
01:12:08USED OR INFILTRATED OR, YOU KNOW, INTERCEPTED FOR OTHER
01:12:11PURPOSES, CONSCRIPTED INTO OTHER PURPOSES. AND I THINK SO I THINK THERE ARE
01:12:15A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF
01:12:16ISSUES RELATED TO TECHNOLOGIES
01:12:19AND PEDAGOGY IN THE CLASSROOM.
01:12:21SO, YEAH, THE FIRST BEING THE
01:12:25FIRST BEING THIS PROBLEM OF
01:12:28TECHNOLOGIES OVERPROMISING, THE SECOND BEING NEW SYSTEMS THAT ARE POSSIBLY PRIVACY,
01:12:34COMPROMISING. AND THEN THERE'S THE NEW ONE, WHICH IS MAYBE CERTAIN KINDS OF
01:12:37TECHNOLOGIES ARE REPLACING THE KIND OF COGNITIVE WORK THAT WE
01:12:41ASSOCIATE WITH, SAY, A LIBERAL
01:12:43ARTS EDUCATION. RIGHT? READING, WRITING, CRITICAL
01:12:47THINKING, BEING OUTSOURCED TO TECHNOLOGIES.
01:12:49AND THAT THAT IS RELATIVELY NEW,
01:12:51I WOULD SAY, IN THIS HISTORY AND IS THE ONE THAT'S GIVING
01:12:55CLASSROOM EDUCATORS ON THE FRONT LINES. YOU KNOW, THE MOST PAUSE BECAUSE
01:12:58IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF THE WORK
01:13:01THAT USED TO HAPPEN AND WAS VALUED IN CLASSROOMS MIGHT BE
01:13:06SIMILAR TO OUTSOURCED TO OTHER
01:13:08OTHER COMMERCIAL PRODUCTS.
01:13:10SO I DO THINK THERE'S A LOT OF
01:13:13GOOD WORK GOING ON RIGHT NOW. I THINK THIS TOOK A LOT OF
01:13:16EDUCATORS BY SURPRISE AND WE'RE NOT PREPARED FOR THIS.
01:13:19I WAS WORKING ON A CURRICULUM REFORM PROJECT THE MOMENT THAT
01:13:23CHATBOT ARRIVED, AND IT REALLY UPENDED US FOR A LITTLE WHILE.
01:13:27BUT BUT I DO THINK COLLEGE
01:13:30FACULTY, K-THROUGH-12 EDUCATORS,
01:13:33ARE STARTING TO REALIZE AND THINK THROUGH THE IMPLICATIONS.
01:13:36AND COMING UP WITH ALL KINDS OF NEW EXPERIMENTS, WHICH SUGGESTS
01:13:39THAT, YOU KNOW, CREATIVITY IS ALWAYS SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE
01:13:41UNDERESTIMATED, WHETHER IT'S IN TERMS OF THINKING ABOUT
01:13:44WORKFORCE IMPLICATIONS OR PEDAGOGY OR TEACHING.
01:13:49SO I'LL STOP THERE. CAN I JUST JUMP IN REALLY QUICK?
01:13:52SO YOU AGREE WITH ALL OF THAT? I JUST WANTED TO ADD TWO MORE COMMENTS.
01:13:56AND ONE IS JUST IT NOT ONLY ARE PEOPLE TRYING TO OUTSOURCE IT,
01:13:59BUT THEY ACTUALLY CAN'T WRITE. AND I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT UNTIL YOU'VE DONE RESEARCH,
01:14:03YOU DON'T ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND, STUDENTS THINK OTHERS JUST FACTS IN THE WORLD.
01:14:06AND THEY NEED TO LEARN THEM, BUT THEY DON'T NEED TO LEARN THEM ANYMORE BECAUSE THEY KNOWS THEM ALL.
01:14:09YEAH, I NEVER PRODUCES ANY NEW KNOWLEDGE. IT CAN'T TELL YOU ANYTHING THAT
01:14:13SOMEBODY HASN'T ALREADY SAID ON THE INTERNET. A LOT OF THAT STUFF WRONG. AND THEN IT KIND OF AVERAGES OUT
01:14:17INTO SOMETHING THAT'S KIND OF GENERIC AND NOT THAT INTERESTING ACTUALLY.
01:14:21BUT THE OTHER JUST COMMENT IN TERMS OF LIKE STRUCTURALLY WHAT'S HAPPENING AND THINKING
01:14:25ABOUT THIS HISTORICALLY,
01:14:27STUDENTS ARE ALSO TARGETS FOR
01:14:29COMPANIES AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN RIGHT.
01:14:32SO WHY DOES APPLE AND WHY DID
01:14:34APPLE AND MICROSOFT EARLY ON
01:14:36MAKE ALL THESE DONATIONS TO SCHOOLS VERY CHARITABLY, VERY
01:14:40GENEROUSLY. THEY'RE TRYING TO CAPTURE A MARKET.
01:14:42AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I SEE HAPPENING WITH A.I. RIGHT NOW.
01:14:46THEY'RE PUSHING IT OUT INTO UNIVERSITIES BECAUSE THEN THEY THINK THEY'RE GOING TO CAPTURE A
01:14:49BUNCH OF THE NEXT GENERATION OF WORKERS, RIGHT?
01:14:53WE'RE GOING TO BE DEPENDENT ON THEIR TOOLS AND WE'LL DEMAND
01:14:56THEM AND NEED THEM AND RELY ON THEM IN THE SAME WAY THAT PEOPLE
01:15:00LEARN TO CERTAIN OPERATING SYSTEMS.
01:15:01SO THAT'S THE CYNICAL. NOPE, SORRY.
01:15:05IT'S NOT JUST THAT. I MEAN, I'M NOT SAYING THESE THINGS CAN'T ACTUALLY HELP US DO
01:15:08THINGS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE. AND YES, I USE A.I. ALL THE TIME TO HELP ME, LIKE SEARCH THROUGH
01:15:12THE INTERNET FASTER. BUT YOU REALLY GOT TO CHECK IT
01:15:16AND IT DOES NOT TELL YOU ANYTHING THAT SOMEBODY HASN'T ALREADY SAID.
01:15:19AND THAT MIGHT BE WRONG ANYWAY. YOU MIGHT JUMP IN HERE IF NOT YOU.
01:15:22SO I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING, BOTH
01:15:25THERE AND IF I COULD JUST SAID ABSOLUTELY 100%.
01:15:28I JUST WANT TO EMPHASIZE AND THIS SORT OF RELATES TO BOTH
01:15:31LABOR AND EDUCATION WITH WITH THESE DIFFERENT FORMS OF MACHINE
01:15:35LEARNING. SUDDENLY YOU'RE ABLE TO BE
01:15:37TRACKED IN DIFFERENT WAYS, IN
01:15:39WAYS THAT ARE NOT CAUSAL.
01:15:42AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS YOU'RE BEING CLASSIFIED IN WAYS THAT
01:15:45YOU PROBABLY DON'T REALIZE, FOR INSTANCE, AND THAT HAS REAL
01:15:48WORLD CONSEQUENCES, DESPITE YOUR NOT REALIZING IT, RIGHT? SO, FOR INSTANCE, I USE
01:15:54MICROSOFT OFFICE, RIGHT? BECAUSE THAT'S I MEAN, I USE OUTLOOK, RIGHT? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT MY SCHOOL USES.
01:15:58WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE'S RECORDS
01:16:00OF ME SENDING EMAILS TO EVERYONE. HOW PRODUCTIVE AM I BEING?
01:16:04I ONLY SENT LIKE 20 EMAILS THIS WEEK. I DIDN'T I SENT A JILLION.
01:16:08AND IT'S SAD, BUT BUT BUT I ONLY SENT 20 EMAILS THIS WEEK.
01:16:11I MUST BE SUPER UNPRODUCTIVE. WHERE THE NEXT WEEK WHEN I SEND 150 EMAILS.
01:16:15OH MY GOSH, THEN I MUST BE SUPER PRODUCTIVE. RIGHT?
01:16:18IT CREATES THESE WAYS OF TRACKING PEOPLE THAT MAY OR MAY
01:16:21NOT ALIGN WITH REAL WORLD OR
01:16:25REAL WORLD RESULTS. RIGHT? THAT'S THE FIRST THING. AND IT RELATES TO QUESTIONS OF
01:16:29EDUCATION AS A SERVICE, AS MENTIONED EARLIER. RIGHT.
01:16:32IT'S NOW IS NOW THE CASE IN IN A NUMBER OF SCHOOLS WHERE
01:16:36ELEMENTARY STUDENTS WHO USE
01:16:39THEIR LAPTOPS, EVERYTHING THEY TYPE IN THEIR LAPTOP IS BEING
01:16:43TRACKED. AND IF LIKE THE RIGHT COMBINATION OF WORDS, VARIOUS
01:16:45STATISTICAL THINGS COME TO COME TO PASS ACCORDING TO THIRD PARTY COMPANIES.
01:16:49AND YOU GET IDENTIFIED AS A POTENTIAL SUICIDE RISK OR
01:16:53SUICIDAL IDEATION, THEN LIKE
01:16:55PLEASE SHOW UP AT YOUR DOOR. AND THIS IS THIS IS NOT IN THE
01:16:59FUTURE. THIS IS ALREADY HAPPENING RIGHT. THIS IS HAPPENING.
01:17:02ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS RIGHT NOW. THESE ARE NEW WAYS OF OBSERVING
01:17:07STUDENTS THAT WERE NEVER BEFORE POSSIBLE. RIGHT. PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT RESPONSES.
01:17:09WHEN PLEASE SHOW UP AT YOUR DOOR. RIGHT. DIFFERENT POPULATIONS RESPOND
01:17:13DIFFERENTLY. RIGHT? TO SAY THE LEAST.
01:17:18SO AND SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS LOVE THIS BECAUSE THEY'RE LIKE
01:17:21MY ONLY MY ONLY GOAL IS TO KEEP MY STUDENTS SAFE AND NOTHING
01:17:25ELSE MATTERS RIGHT. BUT THERE ARE REAL QUESTIONS
01:17:29ABOUT PRIVACY AND ABOUT
01:17:31EXECUTION HERE RIGHT. THAT WE'RE OFTEN NOT HAVING
01:17:35BECAUSE THEY'RE OFTEN BEING OUTSOURCED TO THIRD PARTIES WITH
01:17:40LITTLE OR NO DISCUSSION. THIS THIRD PARTIES, BY THE WAY,
01:17:43LIKE HAVE ACCESS TO THAT DATA.
01:17:46AND IN MANY CASES, THAT THE CONTRACTS THAT THEY'RE SIGNING
01:17:49ALLOW THEM TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH THAT DATA.
01:17:52YOU KNOW, TEXT DATA LIKE THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE, THE CHAT
01:17:56BOT ABOUT HOW YOU'RE FEELING IS NOT PROTECTED INFORMATION
01:18:01ACCORDING TO THE LAW. IT IS NOT THE SAME THING AS TALKING TO A THERAPIST NOT
01:18:05PROTECTED AT ALL. SO THESE ARE JUST SOME THINGS THAT ARE SORT OF LIKE COMING OFF
01:18:08OF BOTH OF WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, THAT IT REALLY CHANGES WHAT CAN
01:18:12BE OBSERVED IN THE KINDS OF CLAIMS PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO MAKE.
01:18:16SO WELL, THAT ACTUALLY LEADS TO OUR NEXT QUESTION, WHICH IS TO
01:18:19KIND OF ZOOM OUT AND THINK MORE
01:18:23GLOBALLY AND AND TO THINK ABOUT
01:18:25HOW YOU WOULD DISCUSS EUROPE AND
01:18:29OTHER COUNTRIES APPROACHES TO
01:18:33PRIVACY AND AI, HOW THAT DIFFERS
01:18:36FROM OR PERHAPS SHAPES THE US
01:18:40POLICY AND APPROACH.
01:18:44I'LL JUST SAY SOMETHING REALLY QUICKLY WHICH IS THAT THE U.S.
01:18:46AND EUROPE WERE MUCH MORE SIMILAR LOOKING BACK SOME
01:18:51DECADES IN THEIR APPROACH TO
01:18:54COMPUTERIZATION AND THE
01:18:56POTENTIAL ISSUES THAT COMPUTER
01:18:58NETWORKS AND DATABASES,
01:19:00INFORMATION SHARING POSED. AND THERE WERE A WHOLE SERIES OF
01:19:04INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCES IN THE
01:19:06EARLY 70S WHERE THERE WAS A KIND
01:19:08OF CONCORDANCE, I WOULD SAY,
01:19:11BETWEEN U.S. AND EUROPEAN
01:19:13APPROACHES TO DATA SECURITY THAT
01:19:15EMERGED AND THE U.S. WAS A REAL LEADER HERE IN CREATING FAIR
01:19:19INFORMATION PRACTICES WHICH GOT ADOPTED IN LOTS OF DIFFERENT PLACES.
01:19:22SINCE THEN, THE UNITED STATES AND EUROPE HAVE DIVERGED IN SOME
01:19:25IMPORTANT WAYS, SOME SCHOLARS
01:19:29HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS AS A DIFFERENCE IN EUROPEAN LAW
01:19:33AROUND PROTECTING THE DIGNITY OF
01:19:36THE INDIVIDUAL VERSUS A U.S. APPROACH, WHICH IS MUCH MORE
01:19:38ABOUT PROTECTING INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AND HAVE SO PRIVACY LAWS
01:19:42HAVE EMERGED AS A KIND OF PATCHWORK IN DIFFERENT SECTORS
01:19:46OF THE SOCIETY RATHER THAN A KIND OF UNIFIED APPROACH.
01:19:50AND YOU SEE THIS IN THE CONTRAST
01:19:52BETWEEN THINGS LIKE THE GDPR,
01:19:54THE KIND OF PRIVACY PROTECTION KIND OF UMBRELLA IN EUROPE
01:19:58VERSUS THE US APPROACH, WHICH KIND OF REGULATES PRIVACY
01:20:01DIFFERENTLY IN PLACES LIKE VIDEO RENTALS AND HEALTH PRIVACY AND
01:20:05SO FORTH, WITHOUT A KIND OF
01:20:07UNIFIED APPROACH. YEAH, I'LL JUST ADD TO THAT.
01:20:13SO. CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, BUILDING ON
01:20:16WHAT SARAH SAID, THERE WAS A
01:20:18PERIOD OF DISCUSSIONS LARGELY
01:20:22BECAUSE OF CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT
01:20:26U.S. COMPANIES WERE DOING WITH DATA FROM AROUND THE WORLD. RIGHT.
01:20:30SO THE U.S. EMERGED AS AN EARLY LEADER IN THE TECH SECTOR.
01:20:34AND THESE COMPANIES WERE GATHERING DATA FROM OTHER
01:20:38COUNTRIES, TAKING IT TO U.S.,
01:20:40PROCESSING IT, PROVIDING INFORMATION SERVICES, WHICH IS A
01:20:43VERY LUCRATIVE INDUSTRY. AND IT WAS VERY THAT WHOLE
01:20:46CONVERSATION ABOUT PRIVACY IN THE 1970S WAS VERY TANGLED UP ALSO WITH SORT OF ECONOMIC
01:20:50PROTECTIONISM AND SOME OF THESE COMPANIES SAYING, WELL, WE DON'T
01:20:53LIKE THE FACT THAT YOUR IBM WAS
01:20:57NOT ONE OF THE BIG ONES AT THE TIME.
01:20:58IF BASIC COLONIZING ARE, YOU
01:21:01KNOW, DATA AND WE WANT OUR COMPANIES TO BE ABLE TO COMPETE AS WELL.
01:21:04SO THOSE TENSIONS WERE ALWAYS THERE BETWEEN EUROPE AND THE
01:21:08UNITED STATES, EVEN IN THE 1970S, DISCUSSIONS VERY
01:21:11EXPLICITLY AND THERE WAS ALSO SOME TALK OF THE DIFFERENT
01:21:15HISTORIES THAT THE UNITED STATES AND EUROPE HAD HAD IN THE 1970S,
01:21:18THAT EUROPE WAS NOT THAT FAR FROM WORLD WAR TWO AND FROM THE
01:21:22KINDS OF SURVEILLANCE THAT LED TO THE HOLOCAUST.
01:21:24AND, YOU KNOW, MAJOR HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES IN EUROPE AT THE
01:21:29TIME. AND SO THAT HISTORY, WHICH IS
01:21:32SOMETHING THAT U.S. CITIZENS THERE'S CERTAINLY A HISTORY OF
01:21:36SURVEILLANCE IN THE UNITED STATES AS WELL. BUT IT DIDN'T GO QUITE THAT
01:21:40DIRECTION. AND SO WHEN A DIFFERENT
01:21:42DIRECTIONS AS AS A RESULT OF THAT, THOUGH THOSE DIFFERENT HISTORIES.
01:21:46RIGHT. AND THOSE DIFFERENT CULTURAL MEMORIES, I THINK ALSO SHAPED
01:21:49THE WAYS THAT THOSE TWO POLITIES HAVE.
01:21:53AND OF COURSE, IN EUROPE IT'S BEEN TWO POLITIES. IT'S MANY POLITIES, RIGHT IN
01:21:56DIFFERENT REGIONS.
01:21:58BUT EUROPE HAS CONSIST CERTAINLY
01:22:01I THINK, BEEN MORE IN FAVOR OF
01:22:03HAVING OVERSIGHT THAN THE U.S.
01:22:06AND SO ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT HAPPENED EARLY ON WHEN THERE WAS
01:22:09AN AGREEMENT ON TRANSPORT OR DATA FLOWS WAS THAT ALL THE
01:22:12COUNTRIES AGREED THAT THEY WOULD HAVE FEDERAL AGENCIES TO OVERSEE
01:22:16PRIVACY. AND MOST EUROPEAN COUNTRIES CREATED ONE.
01:22:18BUT AS I MENTIONED, THE U.S. DID NOT CREATE ONE.
01:22:21THEY SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'LL HAVE OMB DO A LITTLE BIT OF THAT
01:22:25AND THIS AGENCY DO A LITTLE BIT. AND NONE OF THOSE AGENCIES WERE REALLY INVESTED IN PRIVACY.
01:22:29THEY HAVE ALL THIS OTHER STUFF. AND OH, YEAH, I'D ADD PRIVACY TO
01:22:31THE LIST, BUT THAT'S JUST ONE OF THE THINGS THEY MIGHT THINK
01:22:35ABOUT OR MIGHT NOT. SO IT REALLY WAS A VERY DIFFERENT APPROACH.
01:22:39YEAH, I THINK IT COULD SAY
01:22:42SOMETHING ABOUT MAYBE US AND
01:22:44OTHER COUNTRIES IN TERMS OF
01:22:48SECURITY RATHER THAN PRIVACY.
01:22:50SO THE UNITED STATES IN THE MID
01:22:5320TH CENTURY EMERGED AS A LEADER
01:22:55IN THE MANUFACTURE OF COMPUTER
01:22:58TECHNOLOGY, POWER WHO COMPUTER
01:23:00TECHNOLOGY THAT CAN WORK WITH
01:23:04LARGE AMOUNTS OF DATA PROCESS
01:23:06THAT DATA PARTIALLY SO THE
01:23:10UNITED STATES BECAME THE LEADER
01:23:12BECAUSE BECAUSE OF THAT, A MUCH
01:23:14MORE POROUS BOUNDARY BETWEEN THE
01:23:19MILITARY DEFENSE SECTOR AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
01:23:21AND SO NATURALLY FOR OTHER
01:23:24COUNTRIES DURING THE MID 20TH
01:23:25CENTURY WERE KEEN ON ACQUIRING
01:23:28SOME OF THAT POWERFUL TECHNOLOGY IN ONE OF THE COUNTRIES THAT WAS
01:23:31KEEN ON ACQUIRING THAT TECHNOLOGY WAS THE SOVIET UNION.
01:23:34ACTUALLY, AND GENERALLY THE SOVIET BLOC.
01:23:37AND AND YOU SEE TECH COMPANIES
01:23:43SAW THE SOVIET UNION AND THEY
01:23:45GENERALLY THE SOCIALIST BLOC AS
01:23:48A MARKET FOR THAT DATA PROCESSING TECHNOLOGY AND
01:23:54INTEREST ONLY IN THE IN THE 70S
01:23:56THERE WAS THE WHOLE DEBATE IN THE UNITED STATES ABOUT WHETHER
01:23:59THESE COMPANIES NEED TO BE ALLOWED TO SELL THAT DATA
01:24:04PROCESSING COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY TO OTHER COUNTRIES. AND TO WHAT EXTENT AND OF COURSE
01:24:08THE COMPANIES WERE WILLING TO SELL ON THE NOT THE STATE OF THE
01:24:12ART TECHNOLOGY, BUT SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT OUTDATED.
01:24:15BUT NONETHELESS, STILL, YOU KNOW, TO WHAT EXTENT DOES THE
01:24:18THIS TECHNOLOGY TRANSFER POSE A SECURITY RISK TO THE UNITED
01:24:23STATES? GREAT. ALL RIGHT. THE FINAL QUESTION I HAVE BEFORE
01:24:26WE'RE ABOUT OUT OF TIME IS JUST TO THINK ABOUT AGAINST A CURRENT
01:24:30DEBATE THAT'S HAPPENING AROUND INTELLECTUAL AND ARTISTIC
01:24:35PROPERTY RIGHTS BY AND THEIR
01:24:39USAGE BY LATINS. AND HOW DOES THIS FIT INTO THE
01:24:43LARGER HISTORY OF COMPUTING AND
01:24:45PRIVACY RIGHTS AND.
01:24:50ANY THOUGHTS.
01:24:54I MEAN, I HAVE THOUGHTS.
01:24:57I, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M THE BEST HOST ON THIS ONE, ALTHOUGH I
01:25:00HAVE A WHOLE SERIES OF NOTICES,
01:25:04LEGAL NOTICES FROM ANTHROPIC,
01:25:05TELLING ME OR, YOU KNOW, THE
01:25:08COURT RULING AROUND GETTING MY, YOU KNOW, ROYALTIES OR WHAT HAVE
01:25:11YOU FROM THAT THAT I HAVEN'T DEALT WITH YET.
01:25:14SO I THINK, UM, I MEAN, I DO
01:25:18THINK THIS QUESTION ABOUT ARTISTIC PROPERTY, CREATIVE
01:25:22PURSUIT IS GETTING IS HAVING A REALLY INTERESTING THING LEADING
01:25:26TO A VERY INTERESTING DISCUSSION
01:25:27RIGHT NOW ABOUT WHAT HUMANS CAN
01:25:33DO THAT TECHNOLOGIES CANNOT OR
01:25:36AT LEAST CURRENTLY CANNOT. BUT I THINK I'M PROBABLY LIKE A
01:25:40LITTLE BIT LESS SURE THAT WE
01:25:43WON'T GET TO A POINT WHERE GENERATIVE A.I. IS MUCH, MUCH
01:25:48BETTER THAN IT IS NOW AND AND
01:25:50MUCH MORE QUICKLY THAN WE EXPECT. I THINK THAT'S ALREADY WHERE GPT
01:25:54AND ITS VARIOUS SUCCESSORS HAVE
01:25:57HAVE TAUGHT ME ANYWAY.
01:25:59AND WHEN I SEE WHAT MY STUDENTS ARE ABLE TO DO WITH THIS
01:26:03TECHNOLOGY. BUT I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE
01:26:05HAVE OLD AGAIN, WE HAVE OLD LAWS
01:26:09AND OLD METAPHORS AND OLD NARRATIVES. TO AARON'S POINT ABOUT HOW WE
01:26:13PROTECT SOMETHING LIKE CREATIVE PROPERTY OR INTELLECTUAL
01:26:17PROPERTY, I'M GOING TO GO BACK
01:26:19TO WARREN AND BRANDEIS FOR A MOMENT. THERE.
01:26:23SOME OF THE RESOURCES THEY HAD FOR THINKING ABOUT REPUTATION AS
01:26:27PROPERTY OR IMAGE AS PROPERTY
01:26:31CAME FROM THE LAW OF COPYRIGHT. INTERESTINGLY, THAT WAS WHERE
01:26:34THEY LOOKED TO TRY TO FIND THIS NEW DEFINITION OF PRIVACY. IT WAS ONE OF THE PLACES THEY
01:26:39LOOKED AND IT'S HARD TO IT'S
01:26:43HARD FOR ME TO BELIEVE THAT THE
01:26:4719TH CENTURY SORT OF ORIGINS OF ART, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAW
01:26:49ARE GOING TO BE ENOUGH TO DEAL
01:26:56WITH THIS NEW KIND OF ABILITY TO
01:27:00SCRAPE UP, GOBBLE UP ALL OF THIS
01:27:04HUMAN CREATIVITY AND CREATE NEW THINGS MUCH MORE QUICKLY THAN A
01:27:07HUMAN EVER COULD. I JUST DON'T THINK OUR EXISTING
01:27:10REGULATIONS, OUR EXISTING DEBATE IS ROBUST ENOUGH TO HANDLE THE
01:27:16COMING DILEMMAS AROUND THIS AND
01:27:19MAYBE OWNERSHIP IS A REALLY IMPOVERISHED WAY TO THINK ABOUT
01:27:22SOME OF THIS TOO. MAYBE OWNERSHIP AND INDIVIDUAL
01:27:25OWNERSHIP OF CREATIVE PROCESS IS NOT GOING TO SERVE US WELL IN
01:27:29WHATEVER IS COMING NEXT. EXCELLENT.
01:27:33WELL, WE ARE OUT OF TIME, SO
01:27:35THANK YOU, EVERYONE, FOR YOUR
01:27:38THOUGHTFUL QUESTIONS. AND UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE TO
01:27:41BRING THIS TO A CLOSE. AND I APOLOGIZE IF WE DIDN'T GET
01:27:45TO YOUR QUESTIONS, BUT I'M SURE YOUR PANELISTS WILL BE HAPPY TO
01:27:49SPEAK WITH YOU AFTER WE CLOSE THE SESSION.
01:27:51I WANT TO ENCOURAGE ALL OF YOU TO STOP BY THE TABLES OUTSIDE OF
01:27:55THE ROOM, PICK UP ONE OF THE HANDOUTS FROM TODAY.
01:27:57THERE ARE SOME KEY TAKEAWAYS, SOME EXCELLENT IMAGES THAT WILL
01:28:01HELP YOU KEEP THINKING THROUGH THE LESSONS AND THE
01:28:05RAMIFICATIONS OF THINKING HISTORICALLY ABOUT THIS TOPIC. AND YOU CAN ALSO PICK UP MORE
01:28:10INFORMATION ABOUT THE AMERICAN HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION AND ITS WORK.
01:28:14WE HOPE TO SEE YOU AT FUTURE CONGRESSIONAL BRIEFINGS HOSTED
01:28:17BY THE A-J. AND THANK YOU AGAIN FOR JOINING US HERE TODAY.
01:28:21AND PLEASE JOIN ME IN CONCLUDING
01:28:23BY THANKING OUR PANELISTS.
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01:31:14SHE'S A PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AT BOSTON COLLEGE AND WHOSE BOOKS
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01:31:38RUBENSTEIN. SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR SAY
01:31:41THE INDISPENSABLE PERSON WAS GEORGE WASHINGTON. HAD HE NOT BEEN THE GENERAL, WE
01:31:45PROBABLY WOULD HAVE LOST THE WAR AND SO FORTH. YOU AGREE WITH THAT?
01:31:49IN TERMS OF THE IDEOLOGY, THE
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01:32:15WATCH AMERICA'S BOOK CLUB WITH
01:32:16HEATHER COX RICHARDSON SUNDAY AT
01:32:196 P.M. AND 9 P.M. EASTERN AND PACIFIC. ONLY ON C-SPAN.
01:32:33ALL RIGHT. GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE.
01:32:36THE PROGRAM IS STARTING, AND I AM AMY BRAND.
01:32:39I'M THE DIRECTOR AND PUBLISHER
01:32:42OF YOU OF THE MIGHTY PRESS.
01:32:46AND I AM TRULY DELIGHTED TO WELCOME ALL OF YOU HERE THIS
01:32:50EVENING. WE ARE SO THRILLED TO BE PUBLISHING PRIORITY TECHNOLOGIES
01:32:53AND WORKING WITH LIZ REYNOLDS AGAIN AND ALL THE WONDERFUL
01:32:57AUTHORS THAT SHE