Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:01HARD WORK THAT HAPPENED AT THE SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION.
00:00:03NATIONAL AIR AND SPACE MUSEUM'S JENNIFER LEVASSEUR.
00:00:06SUNDAY NIGHT AT EIGHT EASTERN ON C-SPAN'S Q&A.
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00:00:59C-SPAN DEMOCRACY UNFILLED TODAY.
00:01:06HEY, EVERYBODY. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPENDING
00:01:08YOUR SUNDAY WITH US.
00:01:12I'M SURE YOU CAME STRAIGHT FROM CHURCH. MAYBE NOT.
00:01:16I'M A NEW SUMMER. I'M HOST OF NPR'S TED RADIO
00:01:19HOUR, AND I HAVE TO READ A MESSAGE TO YOU FIRST.
00:01:22BEFORE WE BEGIN, I WOULD LIKE TO LET YOU KNOW THAT BOOKS BY
00:01:26AUTHORS IN THIS PROGRAM CAN BE PURCHASED FROM BOOKS ON CALL
00:01:28NYC, WHERE THE AUTHORS WILL ALSO BE SIGNING THEIR BOOKS
00:01:32IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THIS PROGRAM. AUTHORS AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE
00:01:37PROGRAM, PLEASE GO DIRECTLY TO YOUR SIGNING TABLES. THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS.
00:01:40I HAVE TO READ AT THE CONCLUSION OF THIS PROGRAM. WE ASK EVERYONE TO LEAVE THEIR
00:01:45SEATS THAT THE NEXT AUDIENCE CAN BE SEATED. VERY FIRM.
00:01:48THAT'S HOW WE'RE STARTING. YOU GUYS, I NEEDED THIS TODAY.
00:01:51I WAS FEELING SO BEATEN DOWN. SEPTEMBERS JUST KICK IN OUR --.
00:01:55I AM SO EXCITED FOR THIS
00:01:59CONVERSATION ABOUT WHICH ONES OF BIG TECH'S BIG PROMISES ARE REAL
00:02:03PROGRESS AND WHICH ONES ARE JUST DESTROYING SOCIETY.
00:02:06IS THE SHORT DESCRIPTION OF THIS
00:02:10SESSION. SO COREY, DOCTOR OF RIGHT HERE TO MY LEFT IS AN ACTIVIST, JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR.
00:02:14HIS LATEST BOOK IS CALLED AND SHOULD HAVE VACATION WHY
00:02:16EVERYTHING SUDDENLY GOT WORSE AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT, WHICH
00:02:20CHRONICLES HOW DIGITAL PLATFORMS
00:02:22DEVOLVED INTO -- OVER TIME AND THE BROADER EFFECT THAT IT'S HAD
00:02:26ON PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING.
00:02:27AND SPEAKING OF EVERYTHING, ADAM
00:02:31BECKER'S BOOK IS A ADAM BECKER IS A JOURNALIST AND
00:02:35ASTROPHYSICIST. LIKE FOR REAL AND HIS BOOK IS
00:02:38CALLED MORE EVERYTHING FOREVER,
00:02:40FOREVER A.I. OVERLORDS, SPACE
00:02:43EMPIRES AND SILICON VALLEY'S CRUSADE TO CONTROL THE FATE OF
00:02:47HUMANITY. I'M NOT GOING TO EVEN TELL YOU WHAT THAT ONE'S ABOUT. I THINK YOU CAN GUESS.
00:02:51SO I WANT TO START, COREY, WITH
00:02:54A RATHER WHAT SOUNDS LIKE A
00:02:56RATHER DISGUSTING QUESTION.
00:02:58CAN WE UNPACK WHAT AND SHOULD IFICATION?
00:03:00AND SO SO LOOK, I WORK FOR A
00:03:04NONPROFIT CALLED THE ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION. DOES DIGITAL HUMAN RIGHTS WORK?
00:03:07THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THEY DO HAVE LOCAL GROUPS F ADF
00:03:11TALK TO FIND LOCAL CHAPTERS AND
00:03:15FOR 25 YEARS I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO CARE ABOUT THESE VERY ABSTRACT POLICY QUESTIONS
00:03:18THAT RELATE TO TECHNOLOGY. PEOPLE WILL EVENTUALLY LIKE SORT
00:03:21THAT OUT FOR THEMSELVES BECAUSE EVENTUALLY SOMETHING TERRIBLE
00:03:25WILL GO WRONG IN THEIR LIVES. IT WOULD BE NICE IF WE COULD GET PEOPLE TO CARE ABOUT IT
00:03:27BEFOREHAND AND A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO I SAW A LITTLE WHILE TALKING
00:03:31ABOUT I CAME UP WITH THIS WORD AND -- IFICATION AND IT TURNS OUT THAT WAS THE MISSING PIECE.
00:03:35PEOPLE LIKE TO CUSS, YOU KNOW,
00:03:37AND AND SO IT SHOULD IFICATION
00:03:39IS A PRETTY TECHNICAL WAY TO
00:03:42DESCRIBE HOW PLATFORMS ARE GOING
00:03:44BAD AT ITS HIGHEST LEVEL AND THE
00:03:46KIND OF THUMBNAIL SKETCH IS IT DESCRIBES THIS PROCESS WHERE
00:03:50PLATFORMS ARE GOOD TO THEIR END USERS. THEY BRING THOSE END USERS AND
00:03:53THEY FIND A WAY TO LOCK THEM IN SO THAT THEY CAN MAKE THINGS
00:03:55WORSE FOR THOSE USERS WITHOUT RISKING THEIR DEPARTURE, BUT NOT
00:03:59MERELY OUT OF SADISM, ALTHOUGH OBVIOUSLY THERE'S SOME SADISM
00:04:03THERE, BUT PRIMARILY TO MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR BUSINESS
00:04:05CUSTOMERS WHO THEN GET BROUGHT INTO THE PLATFORM.
00:04:08SO IT'S NOT JUST LIKE IF YOU'RE PAYING FOR THE PRODUCT, YOU'RE THE PRODUCT. EVERYONE IS THE PRODUCT HERE.
00:04:12THOSE BUSINESS CUSTOMERS ALSO GET LOCKED IN AND THEN THE
00:04:15PLATFORM MAKES THINGS WORSE FOR THEM AS WELL.
00:04:17SO WE'RE LOCKED IN. WE ARE THE REASON THAT BUSINESS
00:04:21CUSTOMERS ARE THERE, THEY'RE LOCKED IN, AND THEN EVERYBODY GETS LOCKED IN THE PLATFORM,
00:04:24TURNS INTO A PILE OF --, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT, YOU KNOW, WITH
00:04:28FACEBOOK WHERE THEY WERE LIKE, GOOD TO END USERS. THEY RESPECTED OUR PRIVACY. THEY SHOWED US THE THINGS THEY
00:04:32WANTED. THEN THEY STARTED SPYING ON US AND THEY LURED IN ADVERTISERS
00:04:35AND PUBLISHERS, AND THEN THEY STARTED SCREWING THEM AND MAKING
00:04:38ADVERTISING COST MORE AND MAKING PUBLISHERS PAY TO REACH THEIR OWN SUBSCRIBERS TO BOOST THEIR
00:04:43CONTENT. AND THEN THEY CLAWED BACK ALL THE VALUE FOR THEMSELVES. AND THEN BECAUSE THEY'RE IN THIS
00:04:47FRAGILE EQUILIBRIUM WHERE LIKE AT ANY MOMENT THEY COULD HAVE A PRIVACY SCANDAL OR CAMBRIDGE
00:04:51ANALYTICA THING OR A WHISTLEBLOWER, SOMEONE LIVE STREAMING A MASS SHOOTING ON THE
00:04:56PLATFORM, THEY'RE IN THIS BRITTLE EQUILIBRIUM WHERE PEOPLE PERIODICALLY LEAVE BECAUSE THE
00:05:00DIFFERENCE BETWEEN I HATE THIS, BUT I CAN'T SEEM TO STOP USING IT AND I HATE THIS AND I'M NEVER
00:05:04COMING BACK. IT'S PRETTY THIN. AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, YOU KNOW,
00:05:08THEY LOSE USERS AND THEY START TO PANIC. BEING TECH PROS, THEY HAVE A
00:05:12TECHNICAL TERM FOR THIS. THEY CALL IT PIVOTING. AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THIS
00:05:16SITUATION WHERE ONE DAY MARK ZUCKERBERG, LIKE A ROSE FROM HIS
00:05:19SARCOPHAGUS AND SAID, YOU KNOW,
00:05:21I KNOW HARKEN TO ME. I KNOW I TOLD YOU THAT YOUR
00:05:25FUTURE WOULD CONSIST OF, YOU KNOW, ARGUING WITH YOUR RACIST
00:05:28UNCLE USING A PRIMITIVE TEXT INTERFACE I USE.
00:05:30SO I DEVELOPED IN MY DORM ROOM
00:05:32SO THAT WE NONCONSENSUAL RATE HOW BANKABLE HARVARD
00:05:35UNDERGRADUATES WERE. BUT ACTUALLY, I'VE HAD A VISION AND THE FUTURE IS GOING TO BE
00:05:39THAT I'M GOING TO CONVERT YOU AND EVERYONE YOU LOVE INTO A LIGHTLESS SEXLESS HIGH, LOW
00:05:43POLYGON, HEAVILY SURVEILLED CARTOON CHARACTER. AND I'M GOING TO IMPRISON YOU
00:05:46AND A VIRTUAL WORLD I STOLE FROM A 25 YEAR OLD SATIRICAL
00:05:50CYBERPUNK NOVEL THAT I CALL THE METAVERSE. RIGHT. AND THAT'S THE PLATFORM, REALLY
00:05:53LIKE, THAT'S THE FINAL STAGE OF
00:05:55INSIDE STRATIFICATION.
00:06:02OKAY, ADAM, YOUR TURN. CAN YOU LAY OUT?
00:06:04I HAVE TO GO AFTER THAT. I KNOW, RIGHT? I HEARD YOU WANT TO PODCAST SAY
00:06:08THAT THE OTHER TITLE YOU THOUGHT
00:06:10ABOUT FOR YOUR BOOK WAS CALLED THESE EFFING PEOPLE.
00:06:16YEAH, THAT'S TRUE. YOU GUYS, THIS IS ON C SPAN, BUT
00:06:19THAT'S THEIR PROBLEM I SUPPOSE. OKAY.
00:06:21SO REFERRING TO. THESE MEN WHO COME OUT OF THEIR
00:06:27SARCOPHAGI AND SHOULD IF I ALL. YEAH, ESSENTIALLY. YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. TALK US THROUGH.
00:06:32WELL YOU KNOW JUST TO PICK ON
00:06:35ONE OF THESE EFFING PEOPLE WHICH
00:06:39WAS NOT THE ALTERNATIVE TITLE
00:06:40JUST BE CLEAR BUT IT WAS, IT WAS
00:06:44MORE EXPLICIT TITLE. YEAH.
00:06:46NO I MEAN I, I THINK THAT MY PUBLISHER WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN
00:06:50HAPPY WITH THAT. BUT YOU KNOW, WHAT CAN YOU DO? CAN I USE IT?
00:06:54NO, I TRADE MARKED.
00:06:59NO. YOU KNOW, JUST TO PICK ON ONE OF THEM. RIGHT.
00:07:05EVERYBODY'S FAVORITE ONE TO PICK ON BECAUSE HE'S THE WORST. ELON MUSK. RIGHT.
00:07:11HE HAS TRIED TO JUSTIFY ALL OF
00:07:13THE AWFUL THINGS THAT HE'S DONE
00:07:16BY SAYING THAT HE'S TRYING TO
00:07:19SAVE HUMANITY, BY MAKING HUMANS
00:07:24INTO A MULTI-PLANETARY SPECIES,
00:07:26BY TAKING US TO MARS AND, YOU KNOW, FOR ALL OF HIS
00:07:29INCONSISTENCIES, HE'S BEEN VERY,
00:07:30VERY CONSISTENT ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE FOR HIM.
00:07:33HE SAYS HE WANTS A MILLION
00:07:35PEOPLE ON MARS BY 2050 IN ORDER
00:07:39TO HAVE A SELF-SUSTAINING SOCIETY THAT WILL SURVIVE EVEN
00:07:42IF THE ROCKETS FROM EARTH STOP COMING.
00:07:44AND THIS IS ROUGHLY THE STEW PIT
00:07:49IS THING THAT I CAN IMAGINE ANYBODY SAYING, BECAUSE THERE IS
00:07:53NOTHING THAT COULD HAPPEN TO EARTH THAT WOULD MAKE MARS A
00:07:55BETTER OPTION.
00:07:57YOU COULD GET HIT BY AN ASTEROID AS BIG AS THE ONE THAT KILLED OFF THE DINOSAURS.
00:08:01MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO, AND EARTH WOULD STILL BE MORE HABITABLE THAN MARS.
00:08:05YOU COULD HAVE ALL OF THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON EARTH GO OFF
00:08:08AT THE SAME TIME, AND EARTH WOULD STILL BE MORE HABITABLE THAN MARS.
00:08:12YOU COULD DO BOTH OF THOSE AND
00:08:14ALSO HAVE AN ICE AGE AND EARTH
00:08:17WOULD STILL BE MORE HABITABLE THAN MARS.
00:08:19YOU COULD HAVE THE WORST CASE SCENARIO FOR CLIMATE CHANGE, AND EARTH WOULD STILL BE MORE
00:08:23HABITABLE TO MARS BECAUSE WE HAVE OXYGEN IN THE ATMOSPHERE.
00:08:27MARS DOESN'T HAVE THAT. IS THAT IMPORTANT?
00:08:31YEAH.
00:08:31OH, SO YOU KNOW, MUSK CLAIMS TO
00:08:36CARE A LOT ABOUT HUMANITY, BUT, YOU KNOW, DOESN'T SEEM TO CARE
00:08:39VERY MUCH ABOUT HUMANS. AND THIS HAS BEEN RUNNING AROUND A LOT.
00:08:43RIGHT. YOU KNOW, YOU GET SAM ALTMAN
00:08:45CLAIMING THAT HE'S GOING TO
00:08:47SOLVE CLIMATE CHANGE BY ASKING A
00:08:50SUPERINTELLIGENT A.I. THAT HE AND NOBODY ELSE KNOWS HOW TO
00:08:52BUILD OR CAN EVEN DEFINE BY
00:08:56ASKING THAT FOR THREE WISHES. THAT'S ACTUALLY HIS PLAN.
00:08:59YOU KNOW, I CAN I CAN POINT YOU TO THE YOUTUBE VIDEO WHERE HE SAID THIS.
00:09:03YOU KNOW WHAT? TWO YEARS AGO, HE DIDN'T SAY THREE WISHES.
00:09:07HE JUST SAID, WHAT THE THREE WISHES WERE AND THE TELLING
00:09:11THING THERE IS YOU DON'T NEED A SUPERINTELLIGENT A.I. TO SOLVE
00:09:14CLIMATE CHANGE. WE KNOW HOW TO SOLVE CLIMATE CHANGE ALREADY.
00:09:18IT'S NOT A TECHNOLOGICAL PROBLEM PRIMARILY. I MEAN, YEAH, THERE SOME
00:09:22TECHNOLOGY THAT IT'D BE NICE TO GET BETTER AT, LIKE, YOU KNOW,
00:09:25SOME SORT OF CARBON CAPTURE MAYBE.
00:09:28BUT BUT PRIMARILY, WE KNOW HOW TO DO IT. AND THE PROBLEM IS NOT
00:09:32TECHNOLOGICAL. IT'S SOCIOLOGICAL AND POLITICAL.
00:09:34AND WHAT ALL OF THESE EFFING
00:09:39PEOPLE WANT IS THEY WANT TO
00:09:43REDUCE. SO ALL OF THE COMPLEX PROBLEMS
00:09:44OF THE WORLD TODAY TO PROBLEMS
00:09:48THAT THEY CAN SOLVE VERY SIMPLY
00:09:49WITH THEIR TECHNOLOGY AND AND SO
00:09:53THAT WAY THEY WON'T BE CULPABLE FOR THE THINGS THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY CULPABLE.
00:09:57OKAY. SO IT IS VERY FUN TO PILE ON ON SILICON VALLEY.
00:10:00YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. AND IT'S EASY TO DO. HOWEVER, WE DO HAVE
00:10:04EXTRAORDINARY INNOVATIONS. THERE'S ONE IN MY BAG RIGHT NOW,
00:10:08SMARTPHONE, INTERNET, AMAZING THINGS. ELON MUSK ALSO IS THE PERSON WHO
00:10:11GOT ELECTRIC VEHICLES TO BECOME NORMALIZED.
00:10:15SO I WANT TO TRY TO PINPOINT
00:10:17WHERE THINGS GO WRONG BECAUSE
00:10:20HAVING DOCUMENTED THIS MYSELF FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS AS A TECH
00:10:23REPORTER, I DON'T SEE PEOPLE STARTING OFF AS EVIL.
00:10:26IN FACT, THEY WRITE DOWN THINGS LIKE, WE DON'T BE EVIL.
00:10:30THEY TELL THEMSELVES THAT. BUT WHAT IS THE POINT?
00:10:34WE'RE IT GOES TO -- IS IT IS IT
00:10:36VENTURE CAPITAL FUNDING? IS IT THAT THEY GET GREEDY?
00:10:39IS IT WHERE DO YOU SEE IT HAPPENING? DO DO YOU MIND IF I START?
00:10:43PLEASE.
00:10:44SO I THINK THAT IF YOU WANT TO
00:10:47DO THE GALAXY BRAIN MEME ON THIS, YOU KNOW, STAGE ONE VERY
00:10:50PUNY BRAIN IS, OH, IT'S BECAUSE WE ARE LAZY AND DIDN'T WANT TO
00:10:54PAY FOR THINGS AND WE SHOPPED WRONG AND THAT'S WHY WE GOT MONOPOLIES.
00:10:58IT'S LIKE SAYING, YOU KNOW, YOU DIDN'T RECYCLE HARD ENOUGH AND THAT'S WHY THERE'S A WILDFIRE
00:11:01MAKING YOUR AIR UNBREATHABLE. THAT'S NONSENSE, RIGHT? THE SECOND STAGE, A LITTLE MORE
00:11:05VALID. THESE PEOPLE. RIGHT? THESE EFFING PEOPLE TOOK THINGS
00:11:09THAT WE LOVED, TRAPPED US IN THEM AND MADE THEM WORSE.
00:11:13AND THEY TAKE SOME BLAME FOR THAT. BUT I THINK IF YOU WANT TO GO
00:11:16FULL GALAXY BRAIN, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE POLICY ENVIRONMENT, THE IN -- HYGENIC
00:11:19POLICY ENVIRONMENT THAT SAYS THAT IF YOU MAKE THINGS WORSE,
00:11:23INSTEAD OF GETTING PUNISHED, YOU GET RICH.
00:11:25AND SO TO, TO UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT
00:11:29DISCIPLINING FORCES THAT KEPT THE PREDECESSORS OF THESE FIRMS
00:11:32AND THESE FIRMS THEMSELVES IN THEIR EARLIER DAYS WHEN THEY WERE USEFUL BECAUSE THEY REALLY
00:11:36WERE USEFUL. THE REASON WE ALL JOINED FACEBOOK IS THAT IT WAS FUN AND WE TALKED TO A BUNCH OF PEOPLE
00:11:40WE KNEW. AND, YOU KNOW, WE FOUND PEOPLE WE DIDN'T KNOW WE SHOULD KNOW.
00:11:44AND GOT IN TOUCH WITH THEM. WE FOUND PEOPLE WE'D LOST TRACK OF AND GOTTEN IN TOUCH. IT IS GREAT.
00:11:49AND THE THING THAT STOP THEM FROM MAKING IT SOUR THEN FROM,
00:11:51YOU KNOW, DOING THE KIND OF IDEAL PLATONICALLY IDEAL
00:11:55BUSINESS THAT GETS TO CHARGE INFINITY DOLLARS AND SPEND $0 ON PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT.
00:11:59IS THAT IT WOULDN'T HAVE WORKED, RIGHT? THEY HAD COMPETITORS.
00:12:03WELL, WE STOPPED ENFORCING COMPETITION LAW FOR 40 YEARS AGO.
00:12:06WE'VE DRAWN IT DOWN. WE LET FIRMS BUY ALL OF THEIR COMPETITORS.
00:12:09GOOGLE HAS ONLY MADE ONE SUCCESSFUL PRODUCT, RIGHT?
00:12:13THEY MADE A VERY GOOD SEARCH ENGINE IN THE PREVIOUS MILLENNIUM.
00:12:16AND SINCE THEN, EVERYTHING THEY'VE DONE INTERNALLY IS CRASH AND BURNED, AND THE ONLY
00:12:20SUCCESSFUL PRODUCTS THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO FIELD ARE ONES THAT THEY BOUGHT FROM OTHER COMPANIES.
00:12:24RIGHT? VIOLATING ANTITRUST LAW UNDER
00:12:28MERGERS THAT WERE JUST WAVED THROUGH ONE AFTER ANOTHER. AND THAT'S THEIR MOBILE STACK,
00:12:31THEIR AD TECH STACK, VIDEOS, EVERYTHING THEY USED TO FEAR.
00:12:35REGULATORS. BUT WHEN YOU HAVE FIVE GIANT COMPANIES, THEY CAN AGREE ON WHAT TO TELL THEIR REGULATORS.
00:12:38THEY CAN CAPTURE THOSE REGULATORS. THAT'S WHY AMERICA HASN'T HAD A
00:12:42NEW PRIVACY LAW SINCE RONALD REAGAN IN 1988 SIGNED A LAW THAT
00:12:46BANNED VIDEO STORE CLERKS FROM TELLING NEWSPAPERS WHICH VHS CASSETTES YOU HAVE.
00:12:50RIGHT. THAT THEY USED TO HAVE TO FEAR
00:12:52NEW TECHNOLOGY. RIGHT. EVERY TEN FOOT POLO SHIRT IS AN 11 FOOT LADDER.
00:12:57WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY, YOU COULD ALWAYS
00:12:59MAKE A THING THAT MADE IT EASY TO LEAVE FACEBOOK BUT COULD
00:13:02STILL SEND MESSAGES TO THE PEOPLE YOU LEFT BEHIND. THAT'S WHAT MARK ZUCKERBERG DID TO MYSPACE.
00:13:06WHEN YOU WENT TO WHEN YOU WENT TO FACEBOOK FOR MYSPACE, YOU COULD GET A BOT, GIVE IT YOUR
00:13:10LOGIN AND PASSWORD FOR FACEBOOK. IT WOULD LOG INTO FACEBOOK, PRETEND TO BE YOU, GRAB
00:13:14EVERYTHING WAITING FOR YOU THAT YOUR DOPEY FRIENDS WHO DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THEY SHOULDN'T BE
00:13:17ON A SOCIAL MEDIA NETWORK OWNED BY RUPERT MURDOCH HAD AN WE'RE SAYING TO EACH OTHER AND THEN
00:13:21YOU COULD REPLY TO THEM OR PUSH THEM BACK OUT TO THEM SO YOU COULD LEAVE ONE AT A TIME
00:13:25INSTEAD OF HAVING TO ALL AGREE TO GO AT ONE POINT. AND THEY USED TO HAVE TO FEAR
00:13:29THEIR WORKERS BECAUSE TECH WORKERS, DESPITE NOT BEING UNIONIZED, USED TO BE SUPER
00:13:32POWERFUL BECAUSE THE MEDIAN TECH
00:13:34WORKER WAS GENERATING $1 BILLION AN HOUR, $1 MILLION IN INCOME
00:13:38FOR THEIR EMPLOYER. AND SO THIS IS WHY THEY GOT LIKE
00:13:43KABOOM AND MASSAGES AND A SURGEON WHO'D FREEZE THEIR EGGS SO IT COULD WORK THROUGH THEIR
00:13:46FERTILE YEARS. AND IT MEANT THAT THAT TECH
00:13:49BOSSES HAD TO WORRY THAT THESE TRON PILL TECH WORKERS WHO
00:13:53THOUGHT THAT THEY FOUGHT FOR THE USER MIGHT QUIT IF THEY ORDERED
00:13:55THEM TO ENSURE TO FIND THE PRODUCT THAT THEY MISSED THEIR MOTHER'S FUNERAL TO DELIVER ON
00:13:59TIME. BUT, YOU KNOW, EVENTUALLY SCARCITY GOES AWAY.
00:14:03YOU SUPPLY CATCHES UP WITH DEMAND. WE HAVE HALF A MILLION TECH
00:14:06LAYOFFS IN THE LAST, YOU KNOW, OF THREE YEARS.
00:14:09WE HAVE THE GROWTH OF IP LAW THAT HAS BANNED REVERSE
00:14:13ENGINEERING AND MODIFYING SERVICE WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM THE COMPANIES THAT MADE IT.
00:14:17WE HAVE NO COMPETITION TO SPEAK OF, NO REGULATION THAT HAS ANY
00:14:21TEETH. AND SO WE LIVE IN A WORLD IN
00:14:23WHICH EVERY BAD IMPULSE FELT BY
00:14:26A FIRM TURNS INTO POLICY WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE.
00:14:28IF YOU FOLLOW THE DOJ ANTITRUST TRIAL AGAINST GOOGLE, YOU KNOW
00:14:32THAT IN 2019, WHEN GOOGLE'S GROWTH STOPPED IN SEARCH BECAUSE
00:14:36THEY HAD A 90% SEARCH MARKET SHARE. RIGHT. THE ONLY WAY TO GROW IS TO LIKE,
00:14:39YOU KNOW, BREED A MILLION HUMANS TO MATURITY AND THEN TURN THEM
00:14:43INTO GOOGLE CUSTOMERS. BUT GOOGLE CLASSROOMS GOING TO TAKE A WHILE TO DELIVER
00:14:47DIVIDENDS. AND SO INSTEAD, THEY JUST MADE GOOGLE SEARCH WORSE.
00:14:50SO YOU HAD TO SEARCH MORE THAN ONCE IN ORDER TO FIND YOUR ANSWER.
00:14:53AND THEN GET ANOTHER BITE AT THE APPLE TO SHOW YOU ADS. SO, YES, BY ALL MEANS, LET US
00:14:57RESERVE A PLACE IN HELL FOR THE TECH BOSSES WHO TORMENT US EVERY
00:15:01DAY. BUT LET'S REMEMBER THAT THEY ARE THE INTELLECTUAL PROGENY OF
00:15:04FECKLESS LAWMAKERS WHO WORK FOR US AND NOT FOR TECH FIRMS,
00:15:08SHAREHOLDERS WHO CREATED THE ENVIRONMENT THAT MADE THEM RICH
00:15:11AND POWERFUL BY DOING THINGS THAT MADE OUR LIVES WORSE, AND
00:15:14THAT THESE POLICY MAKERS WERE WARNED AT THE TIME THEY TOOK THESE CHOICES THAT THIS WOULD
00:15:18HAPPEN. IT HAPPENED IN LIVING MEMORY. WE KNOW WHERE THESE PEOPLE ARE.
00:15:21THEY'RE POLISHING THEIR FAKE NOBELS AND DOING CONSULTING AS
00:15:27ECONOMISTS FOR LARGE FIRMS AND GOVERNMENT, AND THEY WALK AMONGST US WITHOUT EVER WORRYING
00:15:30THAT SOMEONE IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHICH SIZE PITCHFORK THEY
00:15:37TAKE. ADAM DO YOU SEE IT THE SAME WAY?
00:15:40I MEAN, A LOT OF THIS IS ALSO
00:15:42OFTEN WRAPPED UP IN PATRIOTES. IF NOT US, THEN CHINA IS THE
00:15:46EXCUSE THAT OFTEN IS GIVEN USE.
00:15:48DO YOU SEE THAT THE SAME THAT IT'S THE REGULATORS WHO ARE TO
00:15:51BLAME OR LACK THEREOF?
00:15:54I THINK THAT THERE'S DEFINITELY
00:15:57I MEAN, I AGREE WITH MUCH OF WHAT CORY JUST SAID.
00:16:01I THINK THAT CHINA IS A
00:16:03CONVENIENT BOOGEYMAN THAT IS
00:16:05USED BY SILICON VALLEY AND HAS
00:16:08BEEN USED FOR YEARS FOR WHATEVER
00:16:10THE, YOU KNOW, HYPE OBJECT OF THE DAY IS.
00:16:12IT'S BEING USED NOW AS AN EXCUSE
00:16:15FOR, YOU KNOW, COMPETITION WITH
00:16:18CHINA IS BEING USED AS AN EXCUSE FOR NOT REGULATING.
00:16:21I EVEN THOUGH THERE IS NO
00:16:25EVIDENCE THAT CHINESE COMPANIES ARE AIMING AT THE SAME MYTHICAL
00:16:31BEAST OF AGI, THAT THAT U.S.
00:16:34TECH COMPANY OR USA COMPANIES ARE TRYING TO AIM AT AND FAILING
00:16:39BECAUSE ASIA IS NOT A THING.
00:16:41BUT WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER PANEL AFTER THIS.
00:16:45YEAH, ASIA IS NOT A THING, BUT
00:16:48BUT I THINK THAT I'M GOING TO
00:16:53ADD TWO THINGS TO WHAT COREY SAID. FIRST OF ALL, I DO THINK THAT
00:16:57THERE IS SOME BLAME TO BE PLACED
00:16:59ON THE VENTURE CAPITAL ECOSYSTEM
00:17:03IN SILICON VALLEY BECAUSE THIS
00:17:05IS AN ECOSYSTEM THAT RELIES ON HYPE.
00:17:08IT NEEDS HYPE LIKE OXYGEN TO BREATHE. IT WOULD SUFFOCATE THE WAY WE
00:17:12WOULD ON MARS, BUT THE REASON IT
00:17:17NEEDS THAT HYPE IS THAT THIS
00:17:19VENTURE CAPITAL ECOSYSTEM NEEDS
00:17:25GROWTH MORE THAN IT NEEDS PROFIT. THEY CARE MORE ABOUT GROWTH.
00:17:28THERE'S THIS THERE'S THIS VENTURE CAPITALIST NAMED REID
00:17:32HOFFMAN, PART OF THE PAYPAL
00:17:34MAFIA, USUALLY SEEN AS ONE OF THE GOOD ONES BECAUSE HE DOESN'T
00:17:37LIKE TRUMP, WHICH, YEAH, NO CREDIT WHERE CREDIT'S DUE. HE DOESN'T LIKE TRUMP.
00:17:40HE ALSO DOESN'T LIKE LINA KHAN. BUT WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT LATER.
00:17:44BUT HE HAS A BOOK THAT HE COAUTHORED A FEW YEARS BACK
00:17:47CALLED BLITZ SCALING.
00:17:49AND THE IDEA IS, OH, JUST MAKE
00:17:51YOUR COMPANY AS BIG AS POSSIBLE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
00:17:54AND THIS WILL, YOU KNOW, LEAD TO
00:17:58SUCCESS.
00:18:00AND HE'S WRONG IN THAT.
00:18:02JUST GROWTH FOR GROWTH'S SAKE, YOU KNOW, DOES NOT ALWAYS WORK.
00:18:06THERE ARE CERTAINLY LIKE KINDS OF TECH COMPANIES THAT CAN
00:18:10SUCCEED THAT WAY. RIGHT. IF YOUR GOAL IS TO BUILD A
00:18:12SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANY WHERE, YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU HAVE ENOUGH
00:18:16USERS, EVERYBODY ELSE COMES IN, YEAH, THAT'LL WORK. OR IF YOU WANT TO BE LIKE THE
00:18:20DEFAULT CHOICE FOR, SAY, PAYMENT PROCESSING, THAT WORKS.
00:18:23BUT IF YOU WANT TO, I DON'T
00:18:25KNOW, TO INVENT AN EXAMPLE, THAT DEFINITELY DIDN'T HAPPEN.
00:18:28IF YOU WANT TO SELL A LOT OF COUPONS TO PEOPLE AT DEEP
00:18:32DISCOUNTS. THEN YOU KNOW AND YOU NAME THE COMPANY SOMETHING LIKE, I DON'T
00:18:36KNOW, GROUPON AND THEN JUST
00:18:42SCALING AT ALL COSTS IS JUST GOING TO LEAD YOUR COMPANY TO GO UNDER.
00:18:47BUT BUT THERE IS THIS OBSESSION WITH GROWTH AMONG THE VENTURE CAPITALISTS.
00:18:50AND IT IS TRUE THAT THEY ARE ATTRACTED TO GROWTH.
00:18:53AND SO THIS LEADS TO INEVITABLE
00:18:58HYPE AND HYPE CYCLES. AND THIS ALSO LEADS TO THE
00:19:02DESIRE FOR GROWTH AT ALL COSTS,
00:19:06INCLUDING ANYTHING THAT USERS
00:19:07MIGHT WANT, ANY SORT OF CIVIC
00:19:12DUTY, ANY CARES ABOUT, THINGS
00:19:15LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, DEMOCRACY
00:19:20AND AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS ALSO GOING TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT
00:19:24LIKE THE BILLIONAIRES THEMSELVES AND HOW WHEN YOU REMOVE ALL THE
00:19:26LIMITS FROM THEM IN THIS POLICY ENVIRONMENT THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, THE AND SHOULD
00:19:30HYGENIC POLICY ENVIRONMENT THAT
00:19:32MAKES THEM FEEL LIKE GODS AND
00:19:35THEN THAT MAKES THEM THINK THAT THEY'RE GENIUSES AND GOOD AT EVERYTHING.
00:19:38BUT YOU KNOW, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT LATER.
00:19:41SO, I MEAN, IT SOUNDS SO BORING, BUT REGULATION IS ACTUALLY
00:19:45REALLY, REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE SAM ALTMAN, THE HEAD OF
00:19:48OPEN AIR, IS SAYING REGULATE US, PLEASE REGULATE.
00:19:51YEAH, BUT HE'S BEEN SAYING THAT, TOO.
00:19:52YES, WE WANT TO BE REGULATED.
00:19:56YEAH, BUT BUT NOT REALLY WHAT
00:19:58SAM ALTMAN WANTS IS HE WANTS
00:20:00REGULATIONS ON THE AIR INDUSTRY THAT WOULD ALLOW HIM TO PULL THE
00:20:03LADDER UP BEHIND HIMSELF TO LET TO PREVENT ANY OTHER COMPETITORS
00:20:07FROM SHOWING UP. YEAH, THE FIRST PREFERENCE OF
00:20:10EVERY MONOPOLIST IS NOT TO BE REGULATED AT ALL. AND THE CLOSE SECOND PREFERENCE
00:20:14IS TO HAVE A REGULATORY REGIME
00:20:16THAT YOU HAVE TO BE A MONOPOLIST TO FOLLOW SUCH THAT THEY'RE THE
00:20:19LAST FIRM EXTANT. YEAH, YOU KNOW, I THINK IF
00:20:22PRESSED, GOOGLE WOULD SUPPORT THE IDEA THAT SCRAPING SHOULD BE
00:20:26ILLEGAL BECAUSE THEN WE WOULD NEVER GET ANOTHER SEARCH ENGINE BECAUSE THAT NO ONE IS GOING TO
00:20:30BLOCK THE ONLY SEARCH ENGINE FROM SCRAPING THEIR SITE. BUT IT WOULD MAKE SURE THAT
00:20:35NOBODY ELSE CAME ALONG AND DID UNTO GOOGLE AS GOOGLE DID ONTO ALTAVISTA.
00:20:38YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THERE IS THERE IS THIS IMPULSE TO LOOK TO
00:20:41EUROPE AND BE LIKE, SEE THE EUROPEAN ENDS. THEY HAVE REGULATION.
00:20:44THEY HAVE PRIVACY PROTECTIONS.
00:20:48IS IT IS IS IT MAKING A DIFFERENCE? CAN WE LOOK TO EUROPE FOR WHAT
00:20:51WE SHOULD BE TRYING TO DO GOING FORWARD? WELL, I WAS THE EUROPEAN
00:20:55DIRECTOR OF THE ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION.
00:20:57I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR THE
00:21:00POLICY WORK THAT'S HAPPENED IN EUROPE. I THINK THAT IT'S TRUE THAT IF
00:21:04THE TECH GIANTS FOR OLIVETTI, NOKIA AND DEUTSCHE TELEKOM, WE
00:21:07WOULDN'T HAVE SEEN THESE RULES COME OUT OF THE EU. BUT ALL THAT MEANS IS THAT WHEN
00:21:10YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF KIND OF EMOTIONAL DISTANCE, YOU CAN START TO FIGURE OUT WHAT A GOOD
00:21:15POLICY MIGHT LOOK LIKE. YOU DON'T YOU DON'T FALL INTO THE OPTICS AND CLEVER TRAP THAT
00:21:18IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO EXPLAIN SOMEONE SOMETHING TO SOMEONE WHO'S PAYCHECK DEPENDS ON THEM
00:21:22NOT UNDERSTANDING IT. EUROPEAN REGULATION HAS BEEN FAR
00:21:26FROM PERFECT. MANY OF YOU HAVE SEEN COOKIE CONSENT DIALOGS THAT WERE
00:21:28INSPIRED BY THE GDPR, BUT THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM WITH THE GDPR.
00:21:32THOSE ARE ILLEGAL UNDER THE GDPR. THE PROBLEM WITH THE GDPR, WHICH IS THEIR PRIVACY LAW, IS THAT IT
00:21:38MADE THE FIRST PORT OF CALL FOR EVERY EUROPEAN ENFORCEMENT
00:21:40ACTION UNDER PRIVACY LAW, THE COUNTRY WHERE THAT COMPANY
00:21:44CLAIMED TO BE HEADQUARTERED, AND ALL THE AMERICAN TECH COMPANIES PRETEND THAT THEIR HEADQUARTERS
00:21:47ARE IN DUBLIN BECAUSE IRELAND IS A TAX HAVEN AND THEY WILL
00:21:51MAINTAIN THE PRETENSE THAT ALL OF THEIR PROFITS ARE FLOATING IN
00:21:54A STATE OF UN TAXABLE GRACE OVER THE IRISH SEA.
00:21:57BUT THE THING IS, THERE'S MORE THAN ONE TAX HAVEN IN EUROPE, RIGHT?
00:22:00THERE'S CYPRUS, THERE'S THE
00:22:02NETHERLANDS, THERE'S LUXEMBOURG, THERE'S MALTA.
00:22:05AND ANY COMPANY THAT CAN DO THE SPREADSHEET WORK TO PRETEND TO
00:22:09BE IRISH THIS WEEK COULD BE CYPRIOT NEXT WEEK.
00:22:11AND SO THAT MEANS THAT YOU CAN'T
00:22:14ENFORCE ANY OTHER LAWS IN THAT TERRITORY.
00:22:16OTHERWISE YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE THE BUSINESS OF THE COMPANIES
00:22:19THAT DOMICILED THERE. AND SO ALL THE PRIVACY CASES
00:22:22SINCE THE GDPR WAS PASSED, NINE YEARS AGO HAVE GONE TO DUBLIN
00:22:25AND DIED BECAUSE THE IRISH DATA COMMISSIONER DOESN'T GET OUT OF
00:22:28BED MOST DAYS. AND WHEN HE DOES, HE SITS AROUND IN HIS UNDERWEAR WATCHING
00:22:31CARTOONS AND EATING BREAKFAST CEREAL. NOW THEY'VE JUST PASSED A
00:22:37REVISION TO THE GDPR UNDER THE DIGITAL MARKETS ACT THAT MOVES ENFORCEMENT TO THE FEDERAL
00:22:41COURTS. WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. DONALD TRUMP, FOR ALL HIS TALK
00:22:44ABOUT REINING IN BIG TECH, WENT TO DAVOS. FOR ALL HIS TALK ABOUT HATING
00:22:48DAVOS AND SAID IF YOU ENFORCE
00:22:50THE LAWS AGAINST AMERICAN TECH
00:22:52COMPANIES, WE WILL TERRIFY YOU. I KNOW IT'S SPOKEN A LOT.
00:22:55CAN I SAY ONE MORE THING ABOUT TARIFFS HERE? IN ALL MY INTERNATIONAL WORK ON
00:22:59TECH POLICY, THE SINGLE BIGGEST
00:23:01IMPEDIMENT TO GOOD TECH POLICY
00:23:03EVERYWHERE OUTSIDE OF AMERICA HAS BEEN THAT THE U.S. TRADE
00:23:08REPRESENTED LIVE, HAS DEMANDED THAT AMERICA'S TRADING PARTNERS,
00:23:12NOT MEANINGFULLY REGULATE AMERICAN TECH COMPANIES UNDER
00:23:14THREAT OF TARIFFS.
00:23:16SO HAPPY LIBERATION DAY, RIGHT?
00:23:19THAT'S THE ONE BIG THING THAT
00:23:22STOPPED OTHER COUNTRIES FROM REALLY MUSCULARLY REGULATING
00:23:26TECH COMPANIES HAS BEEN THE THREAT OF TARIFFS. AND THEY'RE HERE NOW.
00:23:30AND YOU KNOW, WHEN LIFE GIVES YOU A SERVICE, YOU MAKE SARSAPARILLA LIKE THIS IS A CHANCE.
00:23:33AND I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE ONE COUNTRY BOLT AND DECIDE THAT
00:23:36THEY WOULD BE THE PEOPLE WHO, FOR EXAMPLE, MAKE THE TOOLKIT
00:23:40THAT LETS ANYONE USE THIRD PARTY INK IN THEIR PRINTER.
00:23:43AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, EVERY GUY
00:23:45WITH A CAR TABLE AT A DRY CLEANER IS GOING TO PAY THAT COMPANY 25 BUCKS A MONTH FOR
00:23:49SOFTWARE SUPPORT. AND WE'RE GOING TO GET A WORLD
00:23:52WHERE AMERICAN COMPANIES THAT CURRENTLY CHARGE $10,000 A
00:23:56GALLON FOR PRINTER INK MAKING IT THE MOST EXPENSIVE FLUID YOU CAN
00:23:59BUY IS A CIVILIAN. IT WOULD BE CHEAPER TO PRINT
00:24:03YOUR GROCERY LIST WITH THE -- OF A KENTUCKY DERBY WINNING
00:24:08STALLION. THAT COUNTRY IS GOING TO START A STAMPEDE BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE
00:24:12IS GOING TO BE LIKE, WELL, WE COULD DO AUTO REPAIR AND TRACTOR REPAIR AND VENTILATOR REPAIR. WE COULD DO THIRD PARTY APP
00:24:16STORES FOR IOS AND FOR GAMES CONSOLES.
00:24:19WE COULD RAISE THE MARGINS OF
00:24:21THE HIGHEST MARGIN COMPANIES IN AMERICA.
00:24:23IF YOU WANT TO REALLY PUNISH ELON MUSK, YOU DON'T MAKE FUN OF
00:24:27HIS NAZI SALUTE. THAT GUY LOVES THE ATTENTION. YOU MAKE IT LEGAL TO JAILBREAK
00:24:31EVERY TESLA OUTSIDE OF THE U.S. AND UNLOCK ALL THE SOFTWARE
00:24:35UPGRADES AND NOT GIVE A DIME TO ELON MUSK. THAT'S THAT'S KICKING HIM IN THE
00:24:39DONGLE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHERE IT HURTS.
00:24:42SO MUCH IMAGERY AND THAT ANSWER.
00:24:48ADAM I DO WANT TO GO BACK TO I OKAY BECAUSE DESPITE ALL WE'VE
00:24:54HEARD, IT WOULD BE REALLY TEMPTING TO NOT GET UP IN THE MORNING OR TO JUST SIT AROUND IN
00:24:57YOUR UNDERWEAR AND EAT BREAKFAST CEREAL.
00:25:00HOWEVER, I HAVE TO SAY, IT'S CLIMATE WEEK KICKING OFF HERE IN
00:25:03NEW YORK CITY.
00:25:05AND I HAVE TO HOPE CALL ME NAIVE
00:25:10THAT THERE WILL BE A USE CASE SCENARIO FOR ARTIFICIAL
00:25:14INTELLIGENCE TO SOLVE THIS BIG PROBLEM THAT WE'RE STARTING TO
00:25:18MAKE OUR PLANET UNINHABITABLE. AND SINCE WE CAN'T GO TO MARS, AS YOU'VE MADE VERY CLEAR, WE
00:25:21ARE STUCK HERE.
00:25:23IS A.I. GOING TO HELP US FIGURE
00:25:26OUT THE SOLUTIONS?
00:25:28IS TECH GOING TO HELP US FIGURE OUT THE SOLUTIONS THAT TECH HAS
00:25:32BROUGHT US? NO.
00:25:36LOOK, IF IF SAM ALTMAN BUILT
00:25:41THAT AGI, IF AGI WERE A THING
00:25:45AND I'LL GET TO THAT IN A SECOND, BUT IF IT WERE A THING,
00:25:47IF HE BUILT HIS A.I. GOD AND
00:25:49TURNED IT ON AND ASKED IT, HEY,
00:25:51HOW DO WE SOLVE CLIMATE CHANGE?
00:25:53AND IT WAS BEING HONEST, THE FIRST THING IT WOULD SAY IS,
00:25:56WELL, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BUILT ME. YOU SHOULD PROBABLY TURN ME RIGHT OFF.
00:26:01YOU KNOW, MY MY CARBON FOOTPRINTS TOO BIG. AND ALSO, YOU ALREADY KNEW HOW
00:26:04TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM AS YOU TURN ME ON.
00:26:09IT'S NOT PRIMARILY A TECHNOLOGICAL PROBLEM AT THIS
00:26:14POINT. LIKE WE HAVE AN INCREDIBLE
00:26:18AMOUNT OF CHEAP, RENEWABLE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY AVAILABLE.
00:26:21WE KNOW HOW TO BUILD HIGH
00:26:24EFFICIENCY, CHEAP SOLAR ENERGY. WE KNOW HOW TO BUILD GOOD WINDMILLS.
00:26:28WE KNOW HOW TO BUILD GOOD GEOTHERMAL. WE KNOW HOW TO BUILD GOOD.
00:26:33YOU KNOW, HYDRO, HYDROELECTRIC PLANT.
00:26:37THE PROBLEM ISN'T EVEN PRIMARILY
00:26:40THE CLIMATE DENIAL OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HERE IN THE
00:26:44U.S. RIGHT.
00:26:44BECAUSE THE U.S. IS NOT THE
00:26:48LARGEST EMITTER OF CARBON IN THE WORLD AND HASN'T BEEN FOR QUITE
00:26:52SOME TIME. I MEAN, YES, IT WOULD BE EASIER
00:26:55TO ADDRESS CLIMATE CHANGE IF WE
00:26:57HAD A U.S. THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO VIGOROUSLY LEAD THE
00:27:02INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO SOME SORT OF AGREEMENT.
00:27:04BUT THAT WOULD NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM ALONE.
00:27:08THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE, YOU
00:27:10KNOW, WORLD WIDE HAVE
00:27:14GOVERNMENTS THAT MOSTLY DO ACCEPT THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS
00:27:18REAL AND HAVE NOT BEEN WILLING
00:27:20TO TAKE THE AGGRESSIVE STEPS
00:27:23NEEDED TO ACTUALLY ADDRESS THE PROBLEM.
00:27:26THAT'S NOT A TECHNOLOGICAL PROBLEM, AND THAT IS A PROBLEM
00:27:30THAT, IF ANYTHING, THE TECH COMPANIES AND MANY OTHER COMPANIES, INCLUDING, YOU KNOW,
00:27:33OIL COMPANIES, THAT'S A PROBLEM
00:27:36THAT THEY HAVE TRIED TO, YOU
00:27:39KNOW, ENABLE AND PERSIST. RIGHT.
00:27:43BECAUSE THAT'S GOOD FOR THEIR BOTTOM LINE IN THE SHORT TERM
00:27:47AND MAYBE IN THE MEDIUM TERM.
00:27:52AND.
00:27:52I DON'T THINK THAT, OKAY, YOU
00:27:56KNOW, I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING I WAS ALLUDING TO
00:28:00BEFORE. THESE TECH BILLIONAIRES REALLY
00:28:02DO BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE SUPER GENIUSES.
00:28:05THEY THINK THAT THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE THE MOST MONEY, THAT
00:28:09ANY INDIVIDUAL HAS EVER HAD IN THE HISTORY OF HUMANITY MEANS THAT THEY ARE THE SMARTEST
00:28:12PEOPLE WHO HAVE EVER LIVED. YOU KNOW, I WAS RAISED ON THE
00:28:17SIMPSONS, AND THERE'S THERE'S A HOMER SIMPSON QUOTE THAT
00:28:21REQUIRES NO CONTEXT. HOMER AT ONE POINT JUST SAYS ABOUT SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN DEAD
00:28:26FOR LIKE 100 YEARS IF HE'S SO
00:28:28SMART, HOW COME HE'S DEAD? HE MAY NOT BE.
00:28:32YEAH, WELL, NO, NO, NO. WHAT I'M SAYING IS THEIR GENERAL
00:28:36ATTITUDE TOWARD THE WORLD IS,
00:28:38YOU KNOW, IF THESE OTHER PEOPLE
00:28:40ARE SO SMART, HOW COME THEY'RE POOR?
00:28:43AND FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, EVERYONE IS POOR.
00:28:48THEY THINK THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE
00:28:52EITHER BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IN SOME HAREBRAINED SOLUTION THAT
00:28:56THEY'VE GOT INVOLVING A.I. THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY GOING TO HELP AND WILL PROBABLY MAKE
00:28:59THINGS WORSE, OR THAT, YOU KNOW,
00:29:04SOME OTHER IDEA LIKE NUCLEAR
00:29:06FUSION STARTUPS WHICH DON'T GET ME STARTED, ARE NOT GOING TO
00:29:10HAPPEN. IT'S NOT HAPPENING. ANYBODY WHO TELLS YOU THAT
00:29:13NUCLEAR FUSION IS GOING TO SOLVE
00:29:15CLIMATE CHANGE IS JUST WRONG. WE'RE TRYING TO SELL YOU
00:29:18SOMETHING OR BOTH, BUT SAM
00:29:21ALTMAN HAS SAID THAT NUCLEAR FUSION IS ALSO THE SOLUTION TO CLIMATE CHANGE.
00:29:27WHAT? ERIC SCHMIDT, FORMER CEO OF GOOGLE BILLIONAIRE VENTURE
00:29:29CAPITALIST, HAS SAID THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO MEET OUR CLIMATE
00:29:33GOALS ANYWAY, SO WE SHOULD JUST BURN A LOT OF RESOURCES IN
00:29:36CARBON TO BUILD MORE AIR FASTER.
00:29:38SO I CAN SOLVE CLIMATE CHANGE
00:29:40FOR US WITHOUT EXPLAINING HOW THAT WOULD WORK.
00:29:44I DON'T THINK THAT THESE GUYS
00:29:47ARE IN A GOOD PLACE MENTALLY TO BEGIN WITH.
00:29:50AND I THINK THE LAST THING THAT THEY NEED, THE LAST THING THAT
00:29:54WOULD, YOU KNOW, HELP THEM REALIZE THAT THEY NEED TO BE
00:29:57TRYING TO HELP SOLVE CLIMATE CHANGE. OTHERWISE WE WILL COME FOR THEM
00:30:00WITH THE PITCHFORKS.
00:30:03IS IS, YOU KNOW, A MACHINE THAT
00:30:06IS LIKE AN AUTOMATED SYCOPHANT MACHINE, RIGHT.
00:30:09PART OF THE REASON THAT THESE GUYS CAN'T THINK. YEAH, EXACTLY.
00:30:12PART OF THE REASON THESE GUYS CAN'T THINK AND THEY ARE ALMOST
00:30:15ALL GUYS IS THAT THEY ARE SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE WHO NEVER TELL THEM NO.
00:30:18THEY'RE LIKE VERY SMALL CHILDREN IN THAT WAY.
00:30:21AND NOW THEY'VE INVENTED SOMETHING THAT WILL JUST NEVER
00:30:25TELL THEM NO AND WILL JUST SORT OF SUCK UP TO THEM AND CAUSE
00:30:28THEM TO BE, YOU KNOW, COMPLETELY
00:30:31DIVORCED FROM REALITY BY
00:30:33AUTOMATICALLY GENERATING TEXT THAT JUST MIRRORS THEIR OWN
00:30:38DELUSION BACK TO THEM. SO NO, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S A PLACE FOR THE CURRENT
00:30:42CROP OF A.I. SYSTEMS OR EVEN NEAR FUTURE OR MEDIUM TERM
00:30:45FUTURE A.I. SYSTEMS HERE. AND I DON'T THINK WE CAN TRUST
00:30:49THESE TECH COMPANIES TO, YOU KNOW, TRY TO LEAD US INTO A
00:30:51BETTER FUTURE. OKAY. I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE WE GET TO
00:30:55YOUR QUESTIONS IN THE AUDIENCE. SO I'M GOING TO ASK ONE MORE.
00:30:58BUT MEANWHILE, IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, PLEASE LINE UP AT EITHER ONE OF THESE MICROPHONES
00:31:02AND I'LL COME RIGHT TO YOU AFTER
00:31:04I ASK THAT QUESTION AS YOU AS
00:31:07YOU POINTED OUT, ADAM, THESE ARE
00:31:12WHITE MEN. YEAH.
00:31:16AND WITH ALL TOO HUMAN FLAWS. YEAH.
00:31:20GREED. FEAR OF DEATH. HMM.
00:31:22BUT THE IMPOSED THOSE FEARS ON
00:31:26US TO THE POINT THAT THERE'S THIS COGNITIVE DISSONANCE THAT I
00:31:29THINK WE'RE ALL LIVING WITH,
00:31:31WHICH IS LIKE, SHOOT MY KID REALLY NEEDS THIS ONE PARTICULAR
00:31:35NOTEBOOK. TOMORROW I'M GOING TO ORDER IT
00:31:37FROM AMAZON PRIME. I DON'T WANT YOU, BUT I'M GOING
00:31:40TO AND LIKE EVERY DAY, ALL THE CHOICES THAT WE MAKE.
00:31:44I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO MAYBE NOT IN THIS ROOM, BUT
00:31:48DEFINITELY LIKE MY KID HAS NO RECOLLECTION OF A WORLD WHERE
00:31:51THESE THINGS DID NOT EXIST.
00:31:52AND SO I GUESS THE QUESTION IS,
00:31:56ARE YOU TILTING AT WINDMILLS?
00:31:58OH, YEAH.
00:32:00I MEAN, LOOK, FIRST OF ALL, TO
00:32:05ECHO SOME OF WHAT COREY SAID
00:32:08EARLIER, THE SOLUTION TO THESE PROBLEMS IS NOT INDIVIDUAL
00:32:12CONSUMER CHOICE. RIGHT.
00:32:14YOU KNOW, LIKE WHEN I WAS A KID,
00:32:16THERE WAS A BOOK CALLED 50
00:32:19SIMPLE THINGS KIDS CAN DO TO SAVE THE EARTH.
00:32:23AND IT WAS SUCH AN OPTIMISTIC, AMAZING SOUNDING TITLE.
00:32:27AND IT WAS ALSO DEFINITELY THE RESULT OF LIKE, THE REAGAN AND
00:32:31BUSH ONE YEARS, RIGHT? THE IDEA THAT THE, YOU KNOW,
00:32:35RESPONSE ABILITY FOR SOLVING CLIMATE CHANGE NOT ONLY, YOU
00:32:37KNOW, LAY WITH THE INDIVIDUAL, BUT LEAD WITH, YOU KNOW,
00:32:41INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE UNDER THE AGE OF TEN.
00:32:44AND THAT IS NOT, YOU KNOW, REALITY. RIGHT?
00:32:47THE REALITY IS WE KNOW WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CLIMATE
00:32:51CRISIS AND AS ONE OF MY FAVORITE TWEETS SAID, THERE'S LIKE 100 OF THEM.
00:32:55WE COULD FIT THEM ON A COUPLE OF BUSSES.
00:33:00SO I DON'T THINK THAT THINKING
00:33:03ABOUT THIS AS LIKE, OH, YOU KNOW, I NEED TO GET LOTS AND
00:33:07LOTS AND LOTS OF PEOPLE TO CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIORS. THAT'S NOT HOW I THINK ABOUT
00:33:10THIS, HOW I THINK ABOUT THIS IS
00:33:12I NEED TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT
00:33:16THESE DELUSIONAL TECH
00:33:18BILLIONAIRES ARE NOT GENIUSES AND ARE IN FACT DELUSIONAL.
00:33:22SO WE THE PEOPLE CAN TRY TO GET
00:33:24OUR GOVERNMENTS TO HOLD THEM
00:33:28ACCOUNTABLE. THAT'S THE TASK.
00:33:30IS THAT TILTING IN POWER, WHO'S
00:33:33NOT DELUDED LIKE.
00:33:35YEAH, WAIT, THAT'S THE SAME THING? YEAH. WELL, YEAH. LOOK, LOOK.
00:33:39IS THAT TILTING AT WINDMILLS? WE'LL FIND OUT.
00:33:43I HOPE NOT. I DON'T INTEND TO BE REASONABLE
00:33:47ABOUT THIS, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I
00:33:49DON'T THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, SITTING BACK AND SORT OF
00:33:53ACCEPTING THE CURRENT REALITY IS THE WAY THAT WE GET TO A BETTER WORLD. AWESOME.
00:33:58LET'S TAKE A QUESTION, PLEASE.
00:34:02I YEAH, I THINK WE YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU GUYS.
00:34:06SECONDLY, I FEEL LIKE WE'VE SET A LOT OF WORDS. A LOT OF THEM HAVE FELT PRETTY
00:34:10GRIM. PRETTY DARK. YEAH. UM, DEEP DOWN, DO YOU FEEL LIKE
00:34:13THERE'S ANY HOPE, OR SHOULD WE JUST START SITTING AT HOME AND
00:34:16EATING OUR CEREAL AND JUST
00:34:18WAITING FOR THE FINAL SUNSET, YOU KNOW?
00:34:21SO I DON'T. YOU KNOW, YOU GO AHEAD. OKAY.
00:34:26YEAH. I THINK THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF HOPE, RIGHT?
00:34:30YOU KNOW, I COULD BE I COULD BE
00:34:32GRIM AND QUOTE KAFKA AND SAY THERE'S AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF
00:34:35HOPE, BUT NOT FOR US.
00:34:39BUT. AND AND.
00:34:42YEAH, WELL, LOOK, I THINK THAT
00:34:45THERE HAVE BEEN MANY POINTS IN
00:34:48HISTORY WHEN THINGS LOOKED
00:34:50INCREDIBLY GRIM AND THEN
00:34:53SOMETHING UNEXPECTED OR STRANGE
00:34:55HAPPENED, OR YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT WAS ONLY PREDICTABLE AND RETRO ASPECT.
00:34:59I ALSO THINK THAT SITTING AT
00:35:03HOME AND, YOU KNOW, EATING POP
00:35:07TARTS AND WATCHING CARTOONS UNTIL THE WORLD ENDS IS WHAT
00:35:13THESE EFFING PEOPLE WANT US TO DO RIGHT?
00:35:17MARK ZUCKERBERG SAYS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE AVERAGE PERSON HAS
00:35:19ONLY THREE FRIENDS, BUT THEY WANT MORE FRIENDS THAN THAT.
00:35:22AND SO HE'S GOING TO INVENT FAKE
00:35:23A.I. FRIENDS FOR THEM.
00:35:26YOU KNOW, THAT'S A PROBLEM THAT HE CAUSED.
00:35:31AND AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, I THINK
00:35:33THAT I, I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF
00:35:36EASY DUNKS I COULD MAKE ON MARK ZUCKERBERG FOR THAT. LIKE, OKAY, MARC, MAYBE YOU ONLY
00:35:40HAVE THREE FRIENDS, BUT BUT
00:35:41LOOK, I THINK THAT ULTIMATELY,
00:35:46YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO I'M GOING
00:35:48TO POINT TO A PARTICULAR EPISODE IN THE HISTORY OF SILICON
00:35:52VALLEY, WHICH ALSO INVOLVES MARK ZUCKERBERG.
00:35:54BACK WHEN FACEBOOK WAS FACEBOOK AND NOT MATTER, THEY BOUGHT A
00:35:58COMPANY CALLED OCULUS, WHICH
00:36:01MADE, YOU KNOW, VR HEADSETS AND AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE BAFFLED
00:36:05BY THIS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW THAT MARK ZUCKERBERG HAD MISREAD
00:36:09SNOW CRASH TOO MANY TIMES AND WANTED TO MAKE THE METAVERSE.
00:36:12AND THEN SOMEBODY POINTED OUT, I DON'T REMEMBER WHO AND I REALLY
00:36:15WISH I DID SOMEBODY SAID, NO, NO, NO. THIS THIS ACQUISITION MAKES SENSE.
00:36:19WHAT'S THE MAIN PROBLEM THAT FACEBOOK HAS SOMETIMES IF PEOPLE AREN'T LOOKING AT THEIR COMPUTERS?
00:36:23SO THEY BOUGHT A COMPUTER THAT YOU STRAPPED YOUR -- FOREHEAD,
00:36:27THEY WANT TO TAKE EVERY SINGLE
00:36:31PIECE OF OUR LIVED EXPERIENCES,
00:36:33PEOPLE, AND FIND A WAY TO
00:36:35MEDIATE IT THROUGH SCREENS AND
00:36:38DEVICES SO THEY CAN MONETIZE IT, DATA MINING IT, AND SELL IT BACK
00:36:41TO US AT A PREMIUM.
00:36:45WE CAN'T LET THEM DO THAT. AND ALL WE HAVE TO DO TO NOT LET
00:36:48THEM DO THAT IS CHANGE THE WAY
00:36:50THAT WE RELATE TO TECHNOLOGY,
00:36:52GOVERNMENT AND ULTRA WEALTHY.
00:36:54SO I WANT TO SAY I'M NOT I'M NOT
00:36:57BIG ON PESSIMISM OR OPTIMISM. I THINK OF THEM AS AS VULGAR
00:36:59FORMS OF FATAL ISM, THE BELIEF THINGS ARE GOING TO GET BETTER OR WORSE, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT WE DO.
00:37:03I'M A VERY BIG BELIEVER THAT
00:37:06WHAT WE DO CHANGES THE FUTURE. AND I THINK ANOTHER NAME FOR
00:37:09THAT BELIEF IS HOPE. AND YOU KNOW, I'M A NOVELIST AND
00:37:13WHEN I WRITE NOVELS, I CAN CHART A COURSE FROM A TO Z, AND I KNOW
00:37:17WHAT ALL THE TURNS AND TWISTS ARE GOING TO BE.
00:37:20BUT IN THE REAL WORLD, THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS. IN THE REAL WORLD, YOU SIT AT
00:37:24THE BOTTOM OF A OF A GRADIENT
00:37:26TOWARDS A WORLD YOU WANT TO LIVE
00:37:28IN AND YOU ASCEND IT AS HIGH AS
00:37:30YOU CAN AND YOU ATTAIN A NEW VANTAGE POINT FROM WHICH TERRAIN
00:37:34THAT YOU COULD NOT SEE FROM YOUR EARLIER LOWER VANTAGE POINT IS
00:37:37REVEALED TO YOU. AND JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW
00:37:39HOW TO GET TO THE SUMMIT, IT DOESN'T MEAN THE PATH DOESN'T EXIST. RIGHT.
00:37:43AND THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WRITING A NOVEL AND LIVING IN THE WORLD.
00:37:47AND I THINK THAT WE HAVE LOTS OF OPPORTUNITY FOR HOPE RIGHT NOW.
00:37:50THERE ARE MANY THINGS THAT WOULD MAKE THE WORLD MATERIALLY BETTER
00:37:54THAT WE ALL SEE AHEAD OF US IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE.
00:37:58SOLID TOURISTIC WORK, CHANGES IN
00:38:00THE GLOBAL ORDER OF TRADE, THE
00:38:05RENEWED REVOLUTION THAT'S UNDERWAY RIGHT NOW. IF YOU HAVEN'T READ BILL
00:38:07MCKIBBEN, HERE COMES THE SUN, I URGE YOU TO TODAY A SUNDAY.
00:38:11ACCORDING TO BILL, IT'S A WONDERFUL BOOK AND A WONDERFUL
00:38:15VISION OF HOW A WORLD COULD BE, YOU KNOW, RENEWABLES ARE
00:38:19SIGNIFICANTLY CHEAPER THAN FOSSIL FUELS. NOW, WE'VE CROSSED THAT LINE IN
00:38:22THE LAST YEAR. BATTERIES ARE 40% CHEAPER THIS YEAR THAN THEY WERE LAST YEAR.
00:38:26RIGHT. THINGS ARE HAPPENING. THERE'S LOTS OF REASON TO HOPE. DOESN'T MEAN THINGS WILL GET
00:38:29BETTER AUTOMATICALLY, BUT IT DOES MEAN THAT AS WE ATTAIN
00:38:33THESE NEW VANTAGE POINTS, WE'RE GOING TO SEE NEW THINGS WE CAN DO.
00:38:36AND WE HAVE TO BE ATTUNED TO THEM. WE HAVE TO BE READY TO WORK FOR THEM.
00:38:40AND WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT OUR DESTINY IS SHARED AND THAT
00:38:42HOPE IS SOMETHING THAT IS NOT AN INDIVIDUAL MATTER OF SHOPPING
00:38:46THE RIGHT PLACE AND HOPING. HOPE IS SOMETHING WE DO TOGETHER
00:38:50AND ZEPHYR TEACHOUT RAN FOR GOVERNOR HERE IN NEW YORK, ONCE SAID THAT IF YOU MISS THE
00:38:54DEMONSTRATION AT THE AMAZON WAREHOUSE BECAUSE YOU WERE DRIVING AROUND LOOKING FOR AN
00:38:57INDEPENDENT STATIONERY STORE SO YOU COULD MAKE A PROTEST SIGN AND NOT BUY YOUR MARKERS FROM
00:39:01AMAZON, AMAZON ONE, DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHERE YOU'RE BUYING
00:39:05THINGS, RIGHT? WORRY ABOUT HOW WE'RE CHANGING THE WORLD.
00:39:11OKAY. I'M I'M MINDFUL OF THE CLOCK HERE.
00:39:14SO QUICK ANSWERS, QUICK QUESTIONS. LET'S LET'S DO THAT. OKAY.
00:39:17AND THEN ANSWER THEM IN A BUNCH OR. SURE YOU COULD DO THAT.
00:39:20SO KEEP IT REALLY SHORT. SO I ALWAYS I WANT TO GO BACK TO
00:39:25GRIM ON-AIR IN CLIMATE, ISN'T IT
00:39:28TRUE THAT THEY'RE NOT JUST
00:39:30DELUDING US, BUT THEY'RE DRY
00:39:32LIVING DEMAND FOR ELECTRICITY IN
00:39:34VIRGINIA, THE SIERRA CLUB CHAPTER TALKS ABOUT THE EVER NEW
00:39:38REPORT. THEY SAY THERE ARE 1295 EXISTING
00:39:42AND PROJECTED DATA CENTERS THAT HAVE A FOOTPRINT OF 58 PENTAGONS.
00:39:46IF YOU BUILD THEM ALL.
00:39:47MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE AN AIR BUBBLE?
00:39:51WILL THIS SORT OF OVERBUILDING
00:39:54ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT THEY'RE
00:39:56ALL DRIVING ALONG WITH PRIVATE EQUITY GOING TO IMPLODE AND
00:40:00BRING DOWN THE MARKET LIKE, YOU
00:40:01KNOW, THE THE TELECOM SECTOR
00:40:05BACK THEN? THANK YOU. THAT'S A I FEEL WEIRD TO ASK
00:40:09ANOTHER. THAT'S A REALLY BIG QUESTION. BUT LET'S GET A QUICK ONE AND THEN ANOTHER QUICK ONE AND THEN WE'LL GO.
00:40:13OKAY. TOTALLY DIFFERENT. TOTALLY DIFFERENT TOPIC. I CAN GO CALL YOURS. TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
00:40:17YEAH. OKAY. GO AHEAD. ALL RIGHT. THIS IS FOR CORY.
00:40:20I WANTED TO ASK A QUESTION ABOUT RADICALIZED. A SHORT STORY YOU WROTE IN 2019
00:40:24THAT CENTERS ON ONLINE FORUMS
00:40:26THAT RADICALIZED CARETAKERS WHO LOST LOVED ONES TO CANCER AFTER
00:40:30BEING DENIED HEALTH CARE COVERAGE. A SERIES OF ASSASSINATIONS OF HEALTH CARE EXECUTIVES AND
00:40:35POLITICIANS FOLLOW. CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH YOUR EMOTIONS WHEN YOU READ THE
00:40:38MANGIONE HEADLINES AND SPEAK MORE BROADLY ABOUT THE
00:40:42CHALLENGES OF WRITING NEAR-TERM SCIENCE FICTION REALISM?
00:40:44OKAY, GREAT. AND THANK YOU.
00:40:48NEXT, ONE MORE HIGH. OKAY.
00:40:51FIRST, I TILTED A LOT OF WINDMILLS. SO I WANTED TO FURTHER.
00:40:55COREY, IF YOU HAD A $50 MILLION LOBBYING BUDGET, THE WHAT'S
00:40:59KNOWN AS THE INTERNET DESIRED,
00:41:03WHAT WHERE COREY PUT A VERY CONSTRUCT OF ROLE INCIDENTALLY
00:41:06WHEN THERE WERE WELL THAT NOT
00:41:09VERY WHAT PRACTICAL STEPS SHOULD
00:41:12WE BE TAKING TO MAKE
00:41:14INTEROPERABILITY HAPPEN AND WHAT
00:41:17SHOULD WE DO BECAUSE THEY WON'T
00:41:19NECESSARILY FORM ME, BUT I AM IN
00:41:21A POSITION TO MAKE THEM LISTEN. SURE. THAT'S GREAT. GOOD QUESTION.
00:41:25I'M GOING TO SYNTHESIZE THOSE THREE QUESTIONS INTO ONE, WHICH
00:41:29IS THAT YOU BOTH ARE CLEARLY VERY GOOD AT ENVISIONING.
00:41:32WHAT CAN HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE
00:41:34BASED ON ALL THE RESEARCH AND WRITING THAT YOU'VE DONE SO FAR,
00:41:38PLEASE LOOK AT BOTH OUR ECONOMY,
00:41:40STATE OF HEALTH CARE AND MENTAL
00:41:42HEALTH AND TRY TO SEE WHAT WE
00:41:44ACTUALLY NEED IN ORDER TO GET TO THIS HOPEFUL PLACE THAT YOU'VE
00:41:48BEEN TALKING ABOUT.
00:41:52KNOW NO. OKAY. WELL, I WILL.
00:41:57ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M OBSESSED WITH AND THAT MY MY NEW
00:41:59BOOK GOES INTO SOME DETAIL ABOUT, I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT
00:42:02THIS IN A AS A KIND OF REGULATORY RESPONSE IS THE IDEA
00:42:04OF AN ADMINISTER ABLE REMEDY, RIGHT? WHAT IS THAT? WHAT IS A RULE THAT YOU CAN MAKE
00:42:08THAT YOU CAN FIGURE OUT IF IT'S BEING BROKEN SO THAT YOU CAN PUNISH PEOPLE IF THEY BREAK IT,
00:42:12AND THAT IF YOU MAKE THAT RULE, IT ISN'T SO EXPENSIVE TO FOLLOW THAT NO ONE CAN COMPETE WITH A
00:42:16COMPANY. SO IT BECOMES LIKE A WHAT'S CALLED SOMETIMES A REGULATORY
00:42:19MODE OR A COMPLIANCE MODE. AND ONE OF THE RULES THAT I'M
00:42:22REALLY INTERESTED IN THAT I THINK WOULD REALLY WORK IF ANY OF YOU HAVE USED MASTODON, WHICH
00:42:26IS LIKE A FREE ALTERNATIVE, LIKE AN OPEN SOURCE ALTERNATIVE TO
00:42:30TWITTER, IT'S IT'S IT'S LIKE TWITTER, EXCEPT THAT THERE'S
00:42:33LOTS OF DIFFERENT SERVERS BUT LIKE EMAIL. SO YOU CAN BE ON ONE SERVER,
00:42:36ANOTHER YOU CAN TALK TO YOUR FRIENDS AND YOU CAN GO FROM ONE SERVER TO ANOTHER.
00:42:40SO SAY YOU JOIN A SERVER AND THE PERSON WHO RUNS IT DECIDES LIKE
00:42:43NOT TO STOP PEOPLE FROM USING
00:42:45SLURS OR HARASS YOU.
00:42:48YOU CAN CLICK A LINK AND YOU GET
00:42:50A FILE THAT HAS EVERYONE WHO
00:42:52FOLLOWS YOU AND EVERYONE YOU FOLLOW. AND IF YOU PUT THAT ON A
00:42:55DIFFERENT SERVER, IT JUST MOVES OVER. IT'S LIKE GOING FROM VERIZON TO T-MOBILE, RIGHT?
00:42:59SO NO ONE HAS TO CARE WHICH SERVER YOU'RE ON.
00:43:02AND IT WOULD BE WEIRD KIND OF TO CARE WHICH SERVER YOU WERE ON. IT'S LIKE CALLING SOMEONE UP
00:43:06AFTER YOU CHANGE CARRIERS AND GOING LIKE YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE
00:43:09WHO SIMMERS IN MY PHONE TODAY. RIGHT. AND LET'S THINK ABOUT THIS, IS
00:43:12THAT ON THE ONE HAND, YOU WOULD EXPECT THAT IT WOULD MAKE COMPANIES ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT
00:43:15THEIR USERS WELLBEING. BUT OF COURSE, BILLIONAIRES
00:43:19LOWER THEIR IQ POINTS BY 30 EVERY TIME THEY MAKE ANOTHER BILLION.
00:43:22SO MAYBE THEY WOULDN'T GET THE MESSAGE IN WHICH CASE YOU COULD LEAVE, RIGHT? SO HUGELY POWERFUL REMEDY.
00:43:26IT WOULD REALLY CHANGE THE WAY
00:43:29THE WORLD WORKS WOULD BE LIKE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIVING IN
00:43:31EAST GERMANY AND JUST LIVING IN BERLIN TODAY. RIGHT?
00:43:35IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SITUATION, YOU CAN TRY TO GO TO PARIS.
00:43:37AND IF YOU DO SO, I'M NOT GOING TO SAY HOW WE CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN.
00:43:41I'M GOING TO SAY THAT THIS RULE IS VERY ADMINISTRA. WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT LATER.
00:43:45THIS RULE IS VERY ADMINISTER ABLE BECAUSE IF I'M ON YOUR
00:43:48SERVER AND YOU'RE THE REGULATOR AND I TRY TO LEAVE AND YOU DON'T
00:43:51GIVE ME THE FILE, I GO TO YOU AND YOU GO TO ADAM AND YOU'RE
00:43:54LIKE, I KNOW YOU SAY YOU GAVE CARRIE THE FILE. COPY SAYS YOU DIDN'T GIVE ME THE FILE.
00:43:58I'LL GIVE IT TO FREE. ONE PERSON COULD ADMINISTER THAT REMEDY FOR A BILLION PEOPLE, RIGHT?
00:44:03UNLIKE, SAY, A HATE SPEECH RULE, WHERE YOU HAVE TO DECIDE IS THIS HATE SPEECH?
00:44:06DID THEY DO WHAT THEY COULD TO STOP? IT HAS THEIR ENGINEERING
00:44:10INFRASTRUCTURE, YOU KNOW, BEEN TOOLED FOR IT AND IT COULD TAKE LIKE SEVEN YEARS TO ADJUDICATE A
00:44:13QUESTION THAT OCCURS LIKE A THOUSAND TIMES A MINUTE. RIGHT?
00:44:17YOU COULD JUST LET THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING HARASSED GO SOMEWHERE WHERE THEY WEREN'T
00:44:21HARASSED AND STILL STAY IN TOUCH WITH THE PEOPLE WHO MATTER TO THEM THAT WE'RE KEEPING THEM ON
00:44:25THE OLD PLATFORM. RIGHT. SO THIS IS LIKE A VERY POWERFUL WAY TO ALTER THE WORLD.
00:44:31AND WE COULD STANDARDIZE THIS
00:44:33SYSTEM OF MOVING BETWEEN SERVERS
00:44:35SUCH THAT IT WOULD BECOME TECHNOLOGICALLY POSSIBLE TO
00:44:39INSIST THAT FIRMS START ADOPTING US. AND SO THINGS THAT ARE
00:44:43TECHNOLOGICALLY POSSIBLE ARE REGULAR. SO THAT'S THAT, THAT'S MY
00:44:47ANSWER. TIM BERNERS-LEE IS WORKING ON THIS NOW, SO IT IS NOT THAT
00:44:51SOLID IS COOL AND INTERESTING BECAUSE. DIFFERENT. OKAY. GO AHEAD.
00:44:54YEAH, I HAVE A MUCH LESS
00:45:01OBVIOUSLY IMPLEMENTABLE IDEA,
00:45:03BUT I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT
00:45:05WE AS A SOCIETY CAN WORK TOWARD,
00:45:09WHICH IS TAXING BILLIONAIRES OUT OF EXISTENCE.
00:45:14SO. THEY ARE PARASITES.
00:45:17THERE'S NO REASON TO HAVE THAT MUCH MONEY.
00:45:20AND WE HAVE SEEN THE DAMAGING EFFECTS OF HAVING THAT MUCH
00:45:25MONEY. YOU KNOW, WE USED TO HAVE A TAX
00:45:27REGIME IN THIS COUNTRY THAT WERE
00:45:29THE TOP MARGINAL TAX BRACKET WAS 90%.
00:45:33AND I BELIEVE THAT KICKED IN AT
00:45:36A YEARLY INCOME OF SOMETHING LIKE $700,000 A YEAR.
00:45:40MAYBE IT WAS A LITTLE LOWER. NOW, THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO.
00:45:44WE GOT TO ADJUST FOR INFLATION,
00:45:46BUT I DON'T SEE ANY REASON WHY WE CAN'T HAVE A WEALTH TAX.
00:45:50I DON'T SEE ANY REASON WHY THE TOP BRACKET ON THAT WEALTH TAX
00:45:53CAN'T BE 99 OR MAYBE EVEN 100%. AND I DON'T SEE ANY REASON WHY
00:45:56THAT CAN'T KICK IN AT, I DON'T
00:46:00KNOW, $500 MILLION. I DID SAY THAT TO ONE PERSON AND
00:46:02THEY CALLED ME A MARXIST AT MY
00:46:06MY RESPONSE WAS, YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK I THINK KARL MARX DID
00:46:10SAY THAT IT WAS OKAY TO LET SOME
00:46:11PEOPLE HAVE HALF $1 BILLION THAT
00:46:15WAS IN LIKE VOLUME TWO. DOES CAPITAL. I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. AND RAISE THAT. SO I KNOW.
00:46:19OH YEAH. YEAH THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH. I'LL LEAVE YOU THERE. I'M RUNNING OUT OF TIME.
00:46:22YEAH, I'M SO, SO SORRY TO IT. THEY ARE GOING TO BE AROUND.
00:46:25I WANT TO END WITH A VERY QUICK LIGHTNING ROUND. OKAY.
00:46:28YES OR NO ANSWERS ONLY. YEAH.
00:46:30DO YOU USE CHATBOT SOMETIMES? NO.
00:46:35DO YOU GO TO BURNING MAN? YES. NO.
00:46:40YOU UBER? YES. YEAH.
00:46:45INSTAGRAM NO. ZUCKER. VEGAN. NOT ANY MORE.
00:46:49TICK TOCK. NO. HELL NO. X YES.
00:46:54NO. AMAZON PRIME. YES.
00:46:58YEAH. ANDROID OR IPHONE.
00:47:02ANDROID. ANDROID. HUH.
00:47:04DO YOU OWN CRYPTO? NO.
00:47:08NO, I DO. WHAT?
00:47:10HAVE YOU MET ELON? NO. NO, THAT'S IT.
00:47:14OKAY. WAIT. I HAVE TO READ YOU SOMETHING. HANG ON. I GOT TO DO THIS.
00:47:18THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING. THE BLUE SKY. YES. SIGN THEIR BOOK.
00:47:21THEIR BOOKS DOWNSTAIRS. AUTHORS, PLEASE BRING YOUR NAME CARDS AND GO WITH YOUR SIGNING
00:47:24ASSISTANT TO THE SIGNING TABLE. PLEASE CLEAR THE AREA AND CLAP
00:47:28LOUDLY FOR OUR AUDIENCE.
00:47:32THANK YOU.
00:47:39HEY. JOEL.
00:47:41WATCHING C SPAN THREE DEMOCRACY
00:47:47UNFILTERED.
00:47:49SO C-SPAN BRINGS YOU DEMOCRACY
00:47:51UNFILTERED IN REAL TIME. DEMOCRACY DOESN'T TAKE SIDES.
00:47:55NEITHER DOES C-SPAN IN A WORLD
00:47:57FULL OF OPINIONS, CEASE MAN GIVES YOU DIRECT ACCESS TO THE
00:48:01PEOPLE AND INSTITUTIONS THAT SHAPE OUR NATION.
00:48:03UNFILTERED COVERAGE OF CONGRESS AS LAWS ARE DEBATED AND DECIDED.
00:48:07LIVE PROCEEDINGS FROM THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT.
00:48:10PRESIDENTIAL SPEECHES.
00:48:12BRIEFINGS IN HISTORIC MOMENTS AS THEY HAPPEN.
00:48:15NO COMMENTARY, NO SPIN, NO AGENDA.
00:48:18JUST THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS PRESENTED IN FULL WITHOUT
00:48:23INTERRUPT SESSION. SO YOU CAN WATCH THE DEBATES,
00:48:25HEAR EVERY WORD AND MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND.
00:48:27C-SPAN RESPECT DID.
00:48:29NONPROFIT SERVICE HAS OFFERED
00:48:31AMERICANS UNFILTERED GAVEL TO GAVEL COVERAGE OF THEIR
00:48:34GOVERNMENT IN ACTION.
00:48:36C-SPAN BRINGING YOU DEMARCO
00:48:38RECEIVE UNFILTERED. C-SPAN IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE
00:48:42CABLE, SATELLITE AND STREAMING COMPANIES THAT PROVIDE C-SPAN AS
00:48:45A PUBLIC SERVICE.
00:48:47ON THURSDAY, NASA ASTRONAUTS
00:48:50JESSICA MEIR AND ANEEL MENON STEP OUTSIDE THE INTERNATIONAL
00:48:54SPACE STATION FOR A CRITICAL SPACEWALK TO PREPARE THE STATION
00:48:57FOR THE INSTALLATION OF ITS
00:48:59SEVENTH ROLL OUT SOLAR ARRAY. THE NEW HARDWARE WILL INCREASE
00:49:03THE STATION'S POWER CAPACITY AND SUPPORT FUTURE SCIENTIFIC
00:49:07MISSIONS AND HELP ENSURE THE SAFE OPERATION OF THE ORBITING
00:49:10LABORATORY FOR YEARS TO COME.
00:49:12WATCH OUR LIVE COVERAGE STARTING
00:49:15AT 8 A.M. EASTERN ON C-SPAN THREE.
00:49:16C-SPAN NOW OUR FREE MOBILE APP
00:49:19AND ONLINE AT C-SPAN DOT ORG.
00:49:28WATCH AMERICA'S BOOK CLUB.
00:49:30C-SPAN'S BOLD ORIGINAL SERIES
00:49:33SUNDAY WITH OUR GUEST, BESTSELLING AUTHOR HEATHER COX.
00:49:37RICHARDSON. SHE'S A PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AT BOSTON COLLEGE AND WHOSE BOOKS
00:49:40SPAN SUBJECTS FROM THE CIVIL WAR
00:49:42AND RECONSTRUCTION TO THE GILDED AGE.
00:49:44THE AMERICAN WEST, AND THE
00:49:46HISTORY OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
00:49:49HER MOST RECENT BOOK IS THE BEST SELLING DEMOCRACY AWAKENING.
00:49:52HER NEWSLETTER, LETTERS FROM AN AMERICAN REACHES OVER 6 MILLION READERS.
00:49:57SHE JOINS OUR HOST, RENOWNED AUTHOR AND CIVIC LEADER DAVID RUBENSTEIN.
00:50:01SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR SAY THE INDISPENSABLE PERSON WAS
00:50:04GEORGE WASHINGTON. HAD HE NOT BEEN THE GENERAL, WE
00:50:08PROBABLY WOULD HAVE LOST THE WAR AND SO FORTH. YOU AGREE WITH THAT?
00:50:11IN TERMS OF THE IDEOLOGY, THE
00:50:13PERSON HE WAS AND HIS WILLINGNESS TO WALK AWAY FROM
00:50:17POWER, THAT WAS EXTRAORDINARY. I ALWAYS TELL MY STUDENTS AMERICA HAS LUCKED OUT.
00:50:20A NUMBER OF TIMES. AND THE FIRST TIME IT LUCKED OUT
00:50:23WAS WITH GEORGE WASHINGTON IN THAT POSITION OF EXTRAORDINARY
00:50:27POWER, WALKING AWAY FROM THE THE ARMY FIRST.
00:50:30AND THAT'S JUST WHY THAT'S IN THE ROTUNDA OF THE CAPITOL.
00:50:33BUT THEN WALKING AWAY FROM THE PRESIDENCY IS AN EXTRAORDINARY THING.
00:50:37WATCH AMERICA'S BOOK CLUB WITH
00:50:39HEATHER COX RICHARDSON SUNDAY AT 6 P.M. AND 9 P.M. EASTERN AND
00:50:44PACIFIC, ONLY ON C-SPAN.
00:50:55IN A DIVIDED MEDIA WORLD, ONE PLACE BRINGS AMERICANS TOGETHER.
00:50:59ACCORDING TO