Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:03JUST.
00:00:04PAST THE UPPER GARDEN ROOM
00:00:10THROUGH THE NEXT ART ARBOR IS
00:00:12THE ROSE GARDEN, THE ROSE ROOM
00:00:14AND THE PROPERTY STRETCHES ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE VERY BACK OF
00:00:18THE PROPERTY WHERE THE BAMBOO IS IN THE WOODLAND GARDEN.
00:00:22EUDORA AND HER MOTHER ACTIVELY TENDED THE GARDEN BETWEEN THE 1920S AND 40S.
00:00:26SO THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TODAY.
00:00:28IT BLOOMS 12 MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR.
00:00:31TODAY IN BLOOM, WE HAVE SOME ZINNIAS.
00:00:34WE HAVE BLACK EYED SUSANS,
00:00:38KOREAN CORPSES AND COSMO'S.
00:00:44MS. WELTY WAS VERY INSPIRED BY THE
00:00:48OUTSIDE. SHE WRITES ABOUT OVER 100 PLANTS
00:00:50IN HER LITERATURE, THE MAJORITY
00:00:53OF WHICH SHE WOULD HAVE ACTIVELY
00:00:55TENDED HERE IN THE GARDEN.
00:00:59AND IT BLOOMS 12 MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR. I KNOW I ALREADY SAID THAT, BUT
00:01:04THAT IS JUST ALL THE REASON TO COME TO THE WEALTHY HOUSE AND THEN COME BACK AGAIN ANOTHER
00:01:08TIME TOO. THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH.
00:01:17BOOK TV IS TELEVISION FOR SERIOUS READERS.
00:01:21KEEP WATCHING FOR MORE OF THE
00:01:22LATEST NONFICTION BOOKS.
00:01:25HI, MY NAME IS BRITTANY WATSON. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE
00:01:29TONIGHT. IT IS MY PLEASURE TO WELCOME YOU ALL TO THIS. WRITERS ON A NEW ENGLAND STAGE
00:01:33EVENT AND THE VERY LAST EVENT OF
00:01:37OUR SECOND ANNUAL SEACOAST LIVE FEST. SO THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE
00:01:40AND FOR JOINING THE MUSICAL AND OUR FRIENDS AT NEW HAMPSHIRE
00:01:44PUBLIC RADIO. WE ARE THRILLED TO HAVE THE
00:01:46BESTSELLING AUTHOR, BARBARA MCQUADE, BACK WITH HER NEW BOOK,
00:01:50THE FIX, WHICH HIT THE NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER LIST THIS WEEK.
00:01:53SO YAY FOR HER.
00:01:58BARBARA MCQUADE IS A PROFESSOR FROM PRACTICE AT THE UNIVERSITY
00:02:01OF MICHIGAN LAW SCHOOL, HER ALMA MATER, WHERE SHE TEACHES COURSES
00:02:05IN CRIMINAL LAW, CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, NATIONAL SECURITY AND
00:02:09DATA PRIVACY. SHE'S ALSO A LEGAL ANALYST FOR NBC NEWS AND MSNBC.
00:02:15AND CO-HOST OF THE SISTERS IN LA.
00:02:18PILOT CAST FROM 2010 TO 2017.
00:02:21SHE SERVED AS THE U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF
00:02:25MICHIGAN AND WAS APPOINTED BY PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA AND WAS
00:02:29THE FIRST WOMAN TO SERVE IN HER POSITION. SHE IS ALSO THE AUTHOR OF THE
00:02:32NATIONAL BESTSELLER ATTACK FROM WITHIN.
00:02:35SO, GABE, WE'RE SO EXCITED TO
00:02:36HAVE HER BACK.
00:02:43NOW IN A FEW MINUTES. WELL, SHE'LL BE JOINED ON STAGE
00:02:46BY TONIGHT'S MODERATOR AND THE HOST OF NPR'S MORNING EDITION,
00:02:50RICK GANLEY. YOU CAN LISTEN TO AND I KNOW WE
00:02:54LOVE HAVING RICK MAKE YOU CAN LISTEN TO HPR ON YOUR RADIO
00:02:58THROUGH THE END OR HPR APP OR AT
00:02:59AN HPR. GEORGIE.
00:03:03AFTER BARBARA AND RICK CHAT FOR A BIT, THEY'LL TURN TO YOU.
00:03:06SO IF YOU HAD A QUESTION AND WROTE IT ON A QUESTION CARD,
00:03:09WE'LL GET THOSE BACK TO HER. AND I WILL TRY TO COVER AS MANY
00:03:12AS WE CAN. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO MEET
00:03:16BARBARA AFTER THE SHOW, YOU CAN LINE UP AT THE STORE HERE ON THE
00:03:19LEFT AND COME BACKSTAGE FOR FUN. LITTLE SIGNING AND PERSONALIZATION.
00:03:24BEFORE WE GET STARTED, A LITTLE BIT MORE HOUSE KEEPING. FIRST, PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO
00:03:27NOTE YOUR NEAR EXIT. KEEP IN MIND IT MIGHT BE BEHIND YOU.
00:03:31AND PLEASE ALSO KNOW FLASH PHOTOGRAPHY OR VIDEO PERMITTED
00:03:35DURING THE SHOW. WE'RE SO GRATEFUL HAVING YOU ALL
00:03:38HERE TONIGHT FOR THIS WRITERS AND ON STAGE EVENT.
00:03:40AND WE COULDN'T DO WITHOUT THE SUPPORT OF OUR GENEROUS SPONSORS, INCLUDING OUR LEAD
00:03:44SPONSOR, MIKI AND CHARITABLE
00:03:46GIVING, OUR SEASON SPONSOR IS KERRY AND JOHN FOR REALTORS AT J
00:03:50GROUP HOSPITALITY AND BOARDWALK PLACE. ARE CONTRIBUTING PARTNER AND
00:03:53LITERARY PRESENTING SPONSOR IS THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE.
00:03:57NOW THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE FOR LIT FIRST AND THANK YOU FOR BEING A PART OF
00:04:02THIS LITERARY TRADITION. WE'RE SO GLAD TO HAVE YOU HERE
00:04:05AND I HOPE WE'LL SEE YOU SOON. SO NOW PLEASE JOIN ME IN
00:04:09WELCOMING BARBARA MCQUADE AND RICK HANLEY.
00:04:27GOOD EVENING. HELLO. THANK YOU.
00:04:31THAT'S VERY THAT'S VERY NICE OF YOU. THANK YOU FOR SAYING HELLO BACK. THANKS SO MUCH FOR COMING OUT
00:04:35TONIGHT. HOW ABOUT DREADNOUGHT? DID YOU ENJOY IT?
00:04:38DID YOU CATCH THE THEME FOR TO
00:04:42LAW AND ORDER? I FOUGHT THE LAW. I THINK YOU CAN SEE THE THEME THERE.
00:04:44A VERY CLEVER. I DO APPRECIATE THAT. THAT'S AMAZING. WELL, THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING
00:04:48OUT TONIGHT. IT'S A PLEASURE, BARBARA. THANK YOU FOR SHARING THE STAGE
00:04:52WITH US TONIGHT. YEAH, THANK YOU SO MUCH, RICK.
00:04:55I REALLY HONORED TO BE HERE. THIS IS AN AMAZING VENUE IN A
00:05:00BEAUTIFUL TOWN. I'M JUST THRILLED TO BE HERE IN PORTSMOUTH. THANK YOU FOR MODERATING.
00:05:03I KNOW YOU ARE AN EARLY BIRD WITH THE MORNING EDITION SHOWS.
00:05:07THANKS FOR STAYING UP LATE AT 7 P.M. WITH US. THREE. AND THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR
00:05:12COMING OUT. IT REALLY IS AN HONOR THAT EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU ARE HERE TONIGHT.
00:05:16AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING
00:05:18TO LISTEN.
00:05:22WELCOME BACK TO PORTSMOUTH. I KNOW WE WERE JUST TALKING BACKSTAGE.
00:05:25YOU, YOU KNOW, HAVE BOOKED DATES IN NEW YORK AND CHICAGO AND
00:05:29OTHER OTHER CITIES. SOME OF THEM, YOU KNOW, NOT
00:05:32QUITE AS IMPORTANT HERE AS PORTSMOUTH. SO WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE.
00:05:36WOULD YOU TAKE OFF MY GLASSES SO I CAN SEE? HERE WE GO. OKAY.
00:05:40IS SUBTITLED THIS BOOK, THE FIX
00:05:45SAVING AMERICA FROM THE CORRUPTION OF A MOB STYLE GOVERNMENT.
00:05:48NOW YOU'RE TAKING HIM DIRECTLY AT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. OBVIOUSLY.
00:05:51HOW DO YOU DEFINE A MOB STYLE GOVERNMENT?
00:05:54WELL, I REALLY BASE THIS ANALYSIS ON MY CAREER AS A
00:05:58FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, WHERE I
00:06:00HANDLED CASES INVOLVING
00:06:03ORGANIZED CRIME ENTERPRISES,
00:06:05CORRUPT PUBLIC OFFICIALS AND CON MEN.
00:06:07AND THE TACTICS THAT WE SEE FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION
00:06:11RESEMBLE THE TACTICS OF THOSE KINDS OF GROUPS.
00:06:14AND THE MAIN FOCUS BEING THE USE
00:06:18OF LEVERAGE, LOOKING FOR WAYS TO
00:06:21USE POWER TO AMASS MORE POWER.
00:06:25AND SO, YOU KNOW, INFLICTING
00:06:28PAIN ON RIVALS OR OTHER CENTERS
00:06:30OF POWER TO COERCE THEM TO COME
00:06:34TO THE TABLE TO NEGOTIATE THEIR OWN PUNISHMENT.
00:06:36AND SO I SAW THIS, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH THE FORMER MAYOR OF DETROIT
00:06:40WHO WOULD DEMAND KICKBACKS FROM
00:06:44ANYBODY WHO WANTED TO DO BUSINESS WITH THE CITY OF DETROIT.
00:06:46IF YOU DIDN'T PAY THE KICKBACK, YOU LOST THE BUSINESS.
00:06:49AND THESE WERE MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR DEALS.
00:06:52AND SO THEY LEARNED THAT IF YOU WANT TO GET THE GOOD DEAL, YOU
00:06:55HAVE TO AGREE TO THESE TERMS. I THINK WE'RE SEEING THE SAME
00:06:59THING FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, ARE WE NOT? I MEAN, IT STARTED THE SECOND
00:07:02TERM WITH THE DISMISSAL OF THE
00:07:07INDICTMENT AGAINST MAYOR ERIC ADAMS FOR BRIBERY.
00:07:09BUT ONLY ON THE CONDITION THAT
00:07:12HE AGREE TO ENFORCE PRESIDENT
00:07:14TRUMP'S IMMIGRATION AGENDA. AND IT WAS CLEAR THAT THAT
00:07:17INDICTMENT WOULD HANG OVER HIS HEAD AS LONG AS THE TRUMP
00:07:21ADMINISTRATION HAD ITS WAY.
00:07:23THE EXECUTIVE ORDERS AGAINST LAW
00:07:25FIRMS, YOU KNOW, ACCUSING THEM
00:07:27FALSELY OF WEAPONIZATION SIMPLY BY ASSOCIATING WITH PEOPLE LIKE
00:07:31ROBERT MUELLER OR MARC ELIAS OR
00:07:33OTHER LAWYERS WHO HAD INTERESTS
00:07:35AGAINST THE PRESIDENT IN THEIR PROFESSIONAL CAPACITY.
00:07:40AND TELLING THEM THEY COULD NOT ENTER FEDERAL BUILDINGS, WHICH
00:07:42IS PRETTY TOUGH TO DO IF YOU'RE A LAWYER BECAUSE IT INCLUDES COURTS.
00:07:46YOU CAN'T GO TO A COURTHOUSE. AND SO DEMANDING THAT THEY COME
00:07:49TO THE TABLE TO NEGOTIATE THEIR
00:07:51OWN PUNISHMENT IN THE FORM OF
00:07:53PRO BONO LEGAL SERVICES.
00:07:55SOME FIRMS HELD FIRM AND FILED
00:07:59LAWSUITS. AND ONE IS, OF COURSE, WE KNEW THEY WOULD, BUT OTHERS CAPITULATED AND THEY CAVE
00:08:03BECAUSE THEY FEARED THE REPERCUSSION SIGNS OF CROSSING THIS PRESIDENT.
00:08:07AND SO THESE TACTICS THAT WE ARE
00:08:09SEEING FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION
00:08:12ARE THE SAME TACTICS THEY GET
00:08:14USED BY THE MOB, CORRUPT PUBLIC
00:08:16OFFICIALS AND CON MEN ALL ACROSS
00:08:18AMERICA IN CRIMINAL CASES.
00:08:20WHAT MAKES THIS ADMINISTRATION,
00:08:23THOUGH, DIFFERENT IN YOUR MIND? POLITICIANS.
00:08:25THERE HAVE BEEN CORRUPT POLITICIANS SINCE DAY ONE OF THE REPUBLIC.
00:08:30THERE HAVE BEEN CORRUPT POLITICIANS IN EACH PARTY. THERE HAVE BEEN CORRUPT
00:08:34POLITICIANS AT THE TOWN, COUNTY, STATE AND FEDERAL LEVEL.
00:08:36WHAT MAKES THIS PARTICULAR ADMINISTRATION WORSE?
00:08:40YEAH, AND I DON'T DISAGREE WITH IT. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS THAT
00:08:44THEY'RE DOING IT IN BROAD DAYLIGHT. AND I THINK THAT IS PART OF THE
00:08:48POWER GRAB. AND ALSO PART OF THE ANALOGY TO
00:08:52ORGANIZED CRIME. YOU KNOW, JOHN GOTTI FAMOUSLY
00:08:56WAS VERY OPEN ABOUT HIS ROLE AS
00:08:59THE LEADER OF A CRIME FAMILY.
00:09:01HE WORE EXPENSIVE SUITS AND SILK TIES AND HE WALKED AROUND IN
00:09:05PUBLIC BECAUSE PART OF THE
00:09:07SHTICK WAS TRYING TO CREATE THE IMPRESSION THAT HE WAS
00:09:12INVINCIBLE. YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T STOP ME.
00:09:15AND AN EFFORT TO MAKE YOU FEEL
00:09:18HELPLESS AND HOPELESS. AND SO WE SEE THIS PRESIDENT
00:09:22USING HIS POWER TO MAXIMAL EFFECT. YOU KNOW, ISSUING EXECUTIVE
00:09:27ORDERS THAT REDEFINED BIRTH RIGHTS ARTISANSHIP OR PUTTING
00:09:32HIS NAME ON THE KENNEDY CENTER, WHICH WE'VE RECENTLY SEEN COME
00:09:38DOWN.
00:09:40AND THERE'S A POINT THERE, THOUGH.
00:09:43I MEAN, YOU COULD YOU CAN POINT THESE THINGS OUT, BUT WE CAN
00:09:46ALSO SAY, WELL, THE SYSTEM IS WORKING RIGHT.
00:09:49THE COURTS HAVE RESPONDED.
00:09:50YEAH, IT IS GRATIFYING TO SEE
00:09:53THE COURTS RESPONDING IN SOME WAYS. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SEEN A MIX, I
00:09:57THINK, AT THE SUPREME COURT. I THINK LOWER COURTS, BY AND
00:10:01LARGE, HAVE REALLY HELD THE PLACE THAT I'VE BEEN MOST
00:10:03DISAPPOINTED, FRANKLY, IS CONGRESS, WHICH I THINK HAS
00:10:07REALLY ROLLED OVER.
00:10:09YOU KNOW, WITH WITH SOME MOMENTS. RIGHT.
00:10:12THEY DID PUSH BACK AGAINST HIS $1.8 BILLION SLUSH FUND.
00:10:15BUT SO OFTEN WE'VE SEEN CONGRESS, WHICH HAS THE POWER OF
00:10:18THE PURSE, PERMIT THE PRESIDENT
00:10:20TO DISMANTLE ALL FEDERAL
00:10:22AGENCIES CREATED BY ACTS OF KIND CONGRESS LIKE THE DEPARTMENT OF
00:10:26EDUCATION OR USAID. AND NOW GUESS WHAT? EBOLA IS BACK, RIGHT?
00:10:29WE'VE SEEN THAT. WE HAVE SEEN CONGRESS ROLL OVER
00:10:33ON THE POWER TO COLLECT AND LEVY TAXES IN THE FORM OF TARIFFS.
00:10:37WE HAVE SEEN CONGRESS ROLL OVER
00:10:40IN THE POWER TO DECLARE WAR, ALLOWING PRESIDENT TRUMP TO GO
00:10:44OFF ON HIS OWN IN IRAN AND OTHER
00:10:46CENTERS OF POWER HAVE ALSO YIELDED. WE MENTIONED LAW FIRMS.
00:10:50I WOULD INCLUDE IN SOME OF THOSE SOME UNIVERSAL ITIES THAT HAVE
00:10:53GONE ALONG WITH THESE BASELESS ALLEGATIONS THAT SOMEHOW THEIR
00:10:57D-I PROGRAMS VIOLATE THE LAW OR
00:11:01EVEN THE MEDIA, WHICH HAS
00:11:03SETTLED LAWSUITS ON THE BASIS OF
00:11:06BASELESS CLAIMS OF DEFAMATION.
00:11:10JUST TO CURRY FAVOR, IN MY OPINION, WITH THE ADMINISTRATION, BECAUSE THEY
00:11:13CARE MORE ABOUT APPROVAL OF THE
00:11:16MERGERS OR THEY DON'T WANT
00:11:18ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS AGAINST THEM, OR THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE
00:11:21THEY KEEP THEIR BROADCAST LICENSE. AND SO THEY THINK OF IT AS A CONSUMER BUSINESS AT THIS POINT.
00:11:26THE APPEASEMENT IS WHAT SEEMS SO DIFFERENT. YEAH.
00:11:28MUCH OF THE BOOK IS ABOUT CHRONICLING THE ACTIONS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION.
00:11:32OBVIOUSLY, AS YOU'VE BEEN POINTING OUT, EXTENSIVE NOTES AND CITATIONS.
00:11:36HOW IMPORTANT IS IS THAT IN
00:11:38MAKING A CASE FOR CORRUPTION TO
00:11:40THOSE WHO WILL COME AFTER US?
00:11:42I MEAN, HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO MAKE THOSE ARGUMENTS NOW, EVEN
00:11:46IF SOME IN SOME WAYS YOU'RE NOT REACHING AN AUDIENCE, MAYBE THAT
00:11:50YOU THAT NEEDS TO READ THIS? WELL, I HOPE EVERYBODY WILL READ IT.
00:11:53BUT I ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT MAYBE
00:11:55PEOPLE WHO ARE STAUNCH
00:11:58SUPPORTERS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION WILL CHOOSE NOT TO.
00:12:02BUT I STILL THINK THAT THERE ARE A COUPLE OF IMPORTANT AUDIENCES
00:12:05FOR THIS. ONE, YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE SAY YOU'RE ONLY PREACHING TO THE CHOIR.
00:12:09WELL, SOMETIMES THE CHOIR NEEDS TO HEAR THE SERMON TO WRITE.
00:12:12YOU NEED THE FACTS. THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU CAN USE IN
00:12:15YOUR OWN KIND FOR STATIONS.
00:12:17NO ONE IS MORE INFLUENTIAL THAN THE PEOPLE AROUND US. AND SO IF YOU WANT TO HAVE
00:12:21CONVERSATIONS WITH YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS, I HAVE
00:12:23PROVIDED THE EVIDENCE FOR YOU TO DOCUMENT IT. TO DO THAT.
00:12:27I ALSO THINK THAT YOU'RE WELCOME.
00:12:32I ALSO THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO ARE
00:12:35CURIOUS, WHO ARE INDEPENDENT VOTERS, WHO ARE PEOPLE IN THE
00:12:39MIDDLE, WHO CARE ABOUT LAW AND ORDER, WHO CARE ABOUT THE
00:12:43INSTITUTION OF DEMOCRACY AND RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S SOMETHING
00:12:46AMISS THAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW. YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEY AREN'T
00:12:51VOTERS WHO TEND TO LEAN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. BUT I THINK IN FORMING PEOPLE
00:12:55THAT WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW IS
00:12:57VERY DISTURBING AND VERY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE'VE SEEN
00:13:00IN THE PAST. YOU KNOW, I SPENT MY CAREER AS A FEDERAL PROSECUTOR.
00:13:04I CARE DEEPLY ABOUT THE RULE OF LAW. AND SO PERHAPS I HAVE SOME CREDIBILITY AMONG AN AUDIENCE OF
00:13:10PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT THE LAW, WHO WILL LISTEN AND UNDERSTAND
00:13:14THAT WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW, FOR EXAMPLE, AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, IS
00:13:19COMPLETE, DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE HAVE KNOWN PRIOR TO THIS POINT.
00:13:23THE USE OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO BOTH REWARD ALLIES
00:13:27AND TO PUNISH ENEMIES IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE RULE OF LAW.
00:13:30AND I THINK THAT BECAUSE I HAVE SPENT 20 YEARS THERE AS AN
00:13:35INSIDER, I HAVE THE ABILITY TO EXPOSE IT. AND I'M HOPEFUL THAT PEOPLE WILL
00:13:38READ THAT. YOU KNOW, YOU MAY CONSIDER PEOPLE WHO WORK AT THE JUSTICE
00:13:41DEPARTMENT TO BE PEOPLE WHO ARE
00:13:43INSTITUTIONALIST AND SO I THINK
00:13:45FOR MY COLLEAGUES AND FORMER COLLEAGUES WHO WILL READ THIS, I
00:13:49EXPECT THAT THEY WILL NOT ALONG AND UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT WE ARE
00:13:52SEEING NOW IS A COMPLETE
00:13:56BASTARDIZE ZATION OF THE KINDS
00:13:58OF NORMS AND POLICIES THAT WE HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN.
00:14:03THERE.
00:14:05I WANT TO ASK A STEP BACK A
00:14:08LITTLE BIT AND ASK HOW YOU CAME TO TO PRACTICE LAW IN THE FIRST PLACE.
00:14:12WHAT WAS YOUR INSPIRATION AS A
00:14:14YOUNG WOMAN, YOUR YOUR HOW YOU
00:14:17CAME UP THROUGH LAW SCHOOL, HOW YOU CAME TO BE A FEDERAL
00:14:23PROSECUTOR? YEAH. YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE. I'VE NEVER PSYCHOANALYZED IT,
00:14:25BUT I GUESS I WOULD SAY THERE
00:14:28ARE TWO KIND OF FORMATIVE
00:14:30ASPECTS OF MY YOUTH THAT I THINK HAVE DRIVEN EVERYTHING THAT I'VE DONE.
00:14:34ONE IS I WAS WHAT WE WOULD CALL
00:14:37IN THE 1960S AND 70S A TOMBOY. ANYBODY ELSE OUT HERE, A FORMER
00:14:42TOMBOY BOY. YOU KNOW, I LIKE TO PLAY SPORTS.
00:14:44I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING OTHER THAN TO STAY AT HOME THE WAY MY
00:14:50MOM DID. ALTHOUGH I HAD A GREAT MOM. I WANTED TO GO OUT IN THE WORLD AND DO THINGS.
00:14:54AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS CONSTANTLY TOLD THAT'S NOT WHAT GIRLS DO.
00:14:58IN THE 1960S, I WANTED TO PLAY SHORTSTOP FOR THE DETROIT TIGERS, AND I WAS TOLD I
00:15:01COULDN'T DO THAT. SO I SAID, WELL, OKAY, THEN I'LL BE PRESIDENT. AND I GIRLS CAN'T DO THAT EITHER.
00:15:05AND I WAS PRETTY OFFENDED BY THAT. SO I GUESS I HAD A CHIP ON MY
00:15:09SHOULDER, AS THEY USED TO SAY, OF FEMINISTS IN THE DAY AND
00:15:12WANTED TO CHANGE THE WORLD AND MAKE IT BETTER.
00:15:14I THOUGHT IT FAILED US TO STAND
00:15:16UP TO THE IDEALS OF AMERICA THAT
00:15:18I HAD BEEN TAUGHT AS A CHILD, THAT WE ARE ALL CREATED EQUAL
00:15:22AND WE ALL SHOULD HAVE AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY. SO I THINK THAT DROVE ME TO BECOME A LAWYER.
00:15:26I THINK THE OTHER THING. THANK YOU.
00:15:29THE OTHER THING IS ONE OF MY FIRST MEMORIES OF CURRENT EVENTS WAS THE WATERGATE HEARINGS.
00:15:33AS A CHILD, I REVERED THE
00:15:37PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND WAS APPALLED THAT HE WOULD BETRAY THE TRUST OF THE AMERICAN
00:15:41PEOPLE BY ENGAGING IN MISCONDUCT IN OFFICE.
00:15:44AND SO I WATCHED RAPTLY AT THE
00:15:46HEARING AND WAS VERY IMPRESSED
00:15:48WITH BOTH THE WORK OF WOODWARD
00:15:50AND BERNSTEIN AND THE WORK OF THE LAWYERS WHO WORKED ON THE
00:15:54CASE AND THE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS. AND I THOUGHT THIS IDEA OF
00:15:57HOLDING PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE WHO ABUSED THE PUBLIC TRUST WAS A
00:16:00VERY WORTHY THING. SO I STUDIED JOURNALISM AND I WORKED FOR A SHORT TIME AS A
00:16:04JOURNALIST. AND THEN I WENT TO LAW SCHOOL. AND I THINK THAT LED ME DOWN
00:16:07THIS PATH AS A PROSECUTOR. THE IDEA OF HOLDING ACCOUNTABLE
00:16:11THOSE WHO WOULD ABUSE THEIR POWER WHEN THAT POWER BELONGS TO
00:16:14THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS WHAT HAS ALWAYS DRIVEN ME.
00:16:19YOU. YOU'RE VERY KIND, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO CLAP AFTER EVERYTHING.
00:16:22LIKE IT'S NOT THE STATE OF THE UNION OR ANYTHING.
00:16:26THAT'S WHY WE'RE RECORDING THIS FOR BROADCAST. SO YOU CAN CLAP ALL YOU WANT.
00:16:29WE CAN EDIT IT TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE I JUST SAID SOMETHING BRILLIANT.
00:16:35IT'S NOT EASY TO DO. WELL, YOU MET.
00:16:39YOU BROUGHT UP WATERGATE. I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES THAT WE SEE NOW AS
00:16:42OPPOSED TO THE EARLY 70S AND WATERGATE.
00:16:45WHY DO YOU THINK THERE WAS SUCH
00:16:48A BROAD CONSENSUS ACROSS AMERICA THAT WATERGATE WAS OBVIOUSLY
00:16:52VERY BAD FOR THE COUNTRY AND WE
00:16:54SEE SUCH A LARGE SUBSET OF
00:16:56AMERICANS NOW WHO ARE QUITE DEDICATED TO THE PRESIDENT, NO
00:17:00MATTER WHAT. YEAH, I THINK WE'VE SEEN A REAL
00:17:02TRANSFORMATION IN THE ELECTORATE AND A DISTRUST IN OUR
00:17:07INSTITUTIONS OF GOVERNMENT, PERHAPS CAUSED BY WATERGATE.
00:17:11YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY PRESIDENT NIXON BETRAYED THE TRUST OF THE
00:17:13AMERICAN PEOPLE BY USING THE PRESIDENCY TO TRY TO GAIN A
00:17:17POLITICAL ADVANTAGE, TO PUNISH HIS ENEMIES, AND THEN TO TRY TO
00:17:21CONCEAL IT AND COVER IT UP. AND GOT CAUGHT.
00:17:23AND THERE WAS A DESIRE FOR ACCOUNTABILITY BACK THEN.
00:17:26I THINK. I THINK ONE OF THE MISTAKES OF
00:17:29THE WATERGATE ERA HAPPENED BECAUSE OF GERALD FORD FROM MY
00:17:33HOME STATE OF MICHIGAN. WE'RE ALL VERY PROUD OF GERALD FORD. HE'S OUR ONLY PRESIDENT.
00:17:36SO WE WE LOVE OUR GERRY FORD. BUT I THINK HE MADE A REAL
00:17:40MISTAKE IN PARDONING PRESIDENT NIXON. AT THE TIME, I MIGHT HAVE
00:17:43THOUGHT IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. BUT YOU MAY RECALL THAT HE PARDONED RICHARD NIXON AND SAID
00:17:47OUR LONG NATIONAL NIGHTMARE IS OVER. IT'S TIME TO MOVE FORWARD AND TO
00:17:51TURN THE PAGE TO MOVE FORWARD RATHER THAN BACKWARD.
00:17:54AND I THINK THAT FAILURE OF ACCOUNTABLE PARTY IS WHAT LED US
00:17:57DOWN THE PATH TO A DONALD TRUMP. YOU KNOW, AS A PROSECUTOR, I
00:18:01ALWAYS VIEWED THE WORK OF PROSECUTORS, NOT SO MUCH AS
00:18:05LOOKING BACK TOWARD PUNISHMENT, BUT LOOKING FORWARD ABOUT
00:18:07FOCUSING ON DETERRENCE AND PUBLIC SAFETY.
00:18:10IF YOU DON'T HOLD BAD ACTORS ACCOUNTABLE AND TEACH OTHERS
00:18:14THAT THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES WHEN
00:18:16YOU ENGAGE IN MISCONDUCT, THEN YOU FAIL TO CREATE THAT
00:18:20DETERRENCE OR PUBLIC SAFETY THAT IS NECESSARY. AND SO I THINK A LESSON FROM
00:18:24THAT WAS YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH THESE MISCONDUCT.
00:18:28YOU KNOW, ROGER STONE IS A THROUGH LINE OF BOTH OF THOSE THINGS.
00:18:31HE'S ALL ABOUT DIRTY TRICKS. AND I THINK BREEDING CYNICISM IS
00:18:34SOMETHING THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE SUCCEEDED AT.
00:18:38AND SO MANY VOTERS HAVE BECOME VERY CYNICAL.
00:18:41ONE OF THE LESSONS FROM RUSSIA
00:18:43IN PUTIN'S REGIME IS THAT IF YOU
00:18:45CAN GET THE PUBLIC TO BELIEVE
00:18:48THAT ALL POLITICIANS ARE CORRUPT, NOT THAT YOU'RE HONEST,
00:18:52NECESSARY EARLY, BUT THEY'RE ALL
00:18:53CORRUPT ANYWAY, THEN IF VOTERS
00:18:57AGREE WITH SOME PARTS OF YOUR AGENDA, THEN THEY'LL OVERLOOK
00:18:59YOUR CORRUPTION. AND I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE TRUMP
00:19:04ADMINISTRATION HAS SUCCEEDED IN IS CONSTANTLY BANGING THE DRUM,
00:19:07THAT HILLARY WAS CORRUPT AND OBAMA WAS CORRUPT AND BIDEN WAS
00:19:11CORRUPT. AND IF YOU BELIEVE THEY'RE ALL CORRUPT, THEN WHO CARES?
00:19:14AND WE DISENGAGE FROM POLITICS. AND THE GUY WHO STICKS IT TO THE
00:19:18IMMIGRANTS OR STICKS IT TO THE MINORITIES OR MAKES ME RICHER IN
00:19:22MY 41K, I'LL VOTE FOR THAT GUY BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL A BUNCH OF CROOKS ANYWAY.
00:19:25YEAH, WELL, THAT COMES BACK TO A
00:19:28QUESTION I WOULD ASK YOU ABOUT THE MEDIA AND WHAT THE MEDIA
00:19:31PLAYS IN THIS. OBVIOUSLY, MEDIA IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS IN THE
00:19:351970S. A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN BE STUCK IN THEIR OWN BUBBLE, WHETHER IT'S
00:19:39JUST A CABLE NEWS CHANNELS OR WITH THEIR OWN SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS.
00:19:43SO THE WORLD IS VERY DIFFERENT.
00:19:45HOW MUCH DOES THE MEDIA, IN YOUR
00:19:48OPINION, HAVE TO TAKE CREDIT OR
00:19:52BLAME FOR THE SITUATION? YOU SEE THAT WE'RE IN POLITICS TODAY.
00:19:55YES, SOME ARE BOTH. BUT I THINK THE MEDIA IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.
00:19:59THERE IS A REASON THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP GOES AFTER THE MEDIA, RIGHT?
00:20:02THESE ARE ALL THE CENTERS OF POWER LAW FIRMS, UNIVERSITIES,
00:20:05THE MEDIA, FOREIGN ALLIES.
00:20:08THERE'S A REASON HE GOES AFTER THEM IS BECAUSE THEY ARE VERY
00:20:12INFLUENCE ESSENTIAL. ONE OF THE TOPICS I LOOKED AT OR
00:20:14THE ERAS I LOOKED AT IN THE BOOK
00:20:16IS THE GILDED AGE, WHICH I THINK
00:20:18BEARS A LOT OF RESEMBLANCE TO OUR OWN RIGHT, THE ROBBER BARONS
00:20:22AND THE WEALTH DISPARITIES. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
00:20:26CAUSED THE EXPOSURE AND PUBLIC REACTION OFTEN TO THE ABUSES AND
00:20:31EXCESSES OF THE GILDED AGE WAS THE JOURNALIST. THAT'S THE MUCKRAKERS.
00:20:34THE REPORTERS, THE AUTHORS WHO EXPOSE THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW,
00:20:38HORRIBLE CONDITIONS OF CHILD
00:20:40LABOR IN FACTORIES OR TAINTED FOOD AND DRUGS.
00:20:44THE TRUSTS THAT WERE GOUGING
00:20:48CONSUMERS, THAT LED TO ANTITRUST LAWS.
00:20:50IT WAS JOURNALISTS WHO EXPOSED
00:20:53ALL OF THOSE WRONGS THAT LED TO THE PROGRESSIVE ERA AND A NUMBER
00:20:57OF REFORMS, ANTITRUST LAWS, FOOD
00:20:59AND DRUG SAFETY LAWS, CHILD LABOR LAWS, PRESERVATION OF
00:21:03NATURAL RESOURCES. ALL OF THOSE THINGS WERE BROUGHT
00:21:06ABOUT BY PUBLIC AWARENESS THROUGH JOURNALISTS. SAME.
00:21:10ANOTHER ERA I LOOK AT IS THE CIVIL RIGHTS ERA, WHERE, YOU
00:21:12KNOW, MUCH OF AMERICA DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN
00:21:15THE SOUTH UNTIL THEY SAW TELEVISION IMAGES OF PEOPLE
00:21:18BEING SPRAYED WITH FIRE HOSES AND ATTACKED WITH DOGS AND
00:21:21BEATEN ON BRIDGES.
00:21:23THE MEDIA HAS A REALLY IMPORTANT ROLE TO PLAY.
00:21:26AND SO I THINK FOR THOSE WHO
00:21:29CAVE, YOU KNOW, LIKE CBS OVER THE 60 MINUTES, REMEMBER THERE
00:21:32WAS THIS LAWSUIT THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP FILED ACCUSE CBS OF
00:21:38ENGAGING IN CONSUMER FRAUD BY
00:21:41EDITING AN INTERVIEW OF KAMALA HARRIS.
00:21:43AND THEY ULTIMATELY SETTLED THAT. I DON'T KNOW OF A SINGLE MEDIA
00:21:47INTERVIEW, INCLUDING THIS ONE THAT DOESN'T GET EDITED TO SOME
00:21:51EXTENT. I MEAN, THE SHOW IS CALLED 60
00:21:55MINUTES, NOT 72 MINUTES, RIGHT? NOT 84 MINUTES.
00:21:58IT'S GOT TO BE. AND YET THEY THEY SUCCUMB TO
00:22:02THAT. THEY THEY. AND WHY? YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME SPECULATION THAT THEY WANTED TO
00:22:05BE ABLE TO COMPLETE MERGERS AND ACQUISITIONS THAT WOULD MAKE
00:22:09EVERYBODY EVEN WEALTHIER THAN THEY ALREADY WERE.
00:22:12BUT I THINK JOURNALISTS PLAY A REALLY IMPORTANT ROLE.
00:22:15AND IF YOU CAN FIND CREDIBLE OUTLETS, I MEAN, CERTAINLY NEW
00:22:19HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC RADIO IS ONE OF THEM.
00:22:21LIKE OTHER NPR AFFILIATES, THERE'S A REASON THEY WANT TO
00:22:25DEFUND PUBLIC RADIO AND THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC
00:22:28BROADCASTING AND PBS, BECAUSE THESE ARE TRUTH TELLERS. THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO SHARE WITH
00:22:32US INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE WORLD.
00:22:36SO THAT WE CAN MAKE INFORMED CHOICES. REMEMBER, THOMAS JEFFERSON SAID
00:22:39SOMETHING LIKE, WOULD WE HAVE
00:22:41THE CHOICE BETWEEN A GOVERNMENT,
00:22:45A FREE GOVERNMENT AND A FREE PRESS? I SHOULD NOT HESITATE TO CHOOSE THE LATTER.
00:22:49IS A FREE PRESS IS SUPER IMPORTANT. WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WHERE WE
00:22:52GET OUR INFORMATION. RIGHT. IF YOU'RE LOOKING ONLINE AND FOLLOWING SOMEBODY WITH A NAME
00:22:56LIKE PATRIOT GIRL, 1776, MAYBE
00:22:59WE DON'T TRUST EVERYTHING SHE HAS TO SAY.
00:23:01BUT LOOKING AT CREDIBLE SOURCES AND MAKING SURE WE LOOK AT A
00:23:05SECOND SOURCE, THOSE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT SO THAT WE HAVE GOOD
00:23:09INFORMATION SO WE CAN MAKE INFORMED CHOICES AT THE BALLOT BOX.
00:23:14I AGREE WITH YOU COMPLETELY. THE PROBLEM I THINK WHAT WE SEE A LOT IN THIS COUNTRY IS WE DO
00:23:17HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST LOOKING AT SOCIAL MEDIA INFLUENCERS AND ARE PAYING
00:23:22ATTENTION TO ONE ISSUE, ONE ISSUE VOTERS WHO AREN'T
00:23:26NECESSARILY VERY CIVICALLY ENGAGED. YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE FIXES I
00:23:29THINK YOU TALK ABOUT IS OBVIOUSLY CIVIC ENGAGEMENT.
00:23:34CAN THAT BE TAUGHT?
00:23:34CAN THAT BE CAN THAT BE
00:23:38ENCOURAGED MORE? I MEAN, HOW DO WE DO THAT? WELL, AS A CHILD OF THE 70S, I
00:23:42GREW UP ON SCHOOLHOUSE ROCK. ANYBODY ELSE REMEMBER
00:23:46SCHOOLHOUSE ROCK? RIGHT. I THINK YOU NEED TO REACH PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE.
00:23:50AND THAT'S WHAT SCHOOLHOUSE ROCK DID. ANYBODY DOES KNOW.
00:23:53IT WAS A SERIES OF SHORT LITTLE
00:23:57CARTOONS THAT, YOU KNOW. SO WHILE YOU'RE WATCHING YOUR
00:24:00BUGS BUNNY ON SATURDAY MORNING, I'M JUST A BILL. YEAH, RIGHT.
00:24:03THEY DO INTERRUPT IT WITH THESE LITTLE CARTOONS AND SOME OF IT
00:24:07WAS ABOUT GRAMMAR, BUT OTHERS WERE ABOUT CIVICS.
00:24:11HOW A BILL BECOMES A LAW ABOVE THE CONSTITUTION.
00:24:14A NUMBER OF OTHER THINGS. SO I THINK REACHING PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
00:24:18ONE WAY WOULD BE IN SCHOOLS,
00:24:20CERTAINLY, AND ONE OF THE GREAT
00:24:22TRAGIC COLLATERAL EFFECTS OF THE
00:24:24STEM ERA, WHERE WE SPEND A LOT
00:24:26OF RESOURCE IS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS
00:24:29ON SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY, ENGINEERING AND MATH, WHICH ARE
00:24:33CERTAINLY IMPORTANT, IS WHAT HAS
00:24:35GIVEN WAY IS CIVICS EDUCATION, BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ENOUGH TIME
00:24:39IN THE SCHOOL DAY OR ENOUGH RESOURCES. AND SO THAT IS WHAT IS GETTING CUT.
00:24:43AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY EASY TO PERSUADE PEOPLE THAT THE
00:24:48GOVERNMENT WORKS DIFFERENTLY THAN IT DOES IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE THREE BRANCHES OF
00:24:52GOVERNMENT ARE. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, THEY THINK THE THREE BRANCHES ARE LARRY, MOE AND
00:24:56CURLY. YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH ANYTHING.
00:24:59J.D. VANCE IS FOND OF POSTING
00:25:01THESE THINGS ONLINE. WHENEVER JUDGES RULE AGAINST
00:25:04DONALD TRUMP AND SAY THINGS LIKE THE JUDICIARY IS OVERREACHING,
00:25:08WHEN THEY TELL THE PRESIDENT HOW TO USE HIS EXECUTIVE AUTHORITY.
00:25:12AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE JUDICIARY IS SUPPOSED TO DO. RIGHT.
00:25:14AND SO ANYBODY WHO'S HAD BASIC CIVICS EDUCATION WOULD KNOW
00:25:18THAT. BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE LOTS OF GOOD NONPROFITS OUT
00:25:22THERE, FOLKS. LET'S HAVE SOME SOCIAL MEDIA INFLUENCERS WHO ARE TALKING
00:25:26ABOUT GOOD GOVERNMENT. LET'S HAVE, YOU KNOW, TELEVISION
00:25:29SHOWS, RADIO PROGRAMS, OTHER
00:25:31WAYS OF HELPING PEOPLE TO LEARN
00:25:35ABOUT THE CIVICS IN OUR COUNTRY. THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY.
00:25:37AND I THINK IT'S MUCH HARDER TO CON US WHEN WE HAVE THAT KIND OF
00:25:43INFORMATION. YEAH, I THINK YOU WRITE AT ONE
00:25:46POINT, CITIZENSHIP. YOU KNOW, IT COMES WITH A RESPONSIBILITY TO EDUCATE
00:25:51OURSELVES ABOUT ISSUES.
00:25:53I DON'T KNOW IF IF MANY IN THE
00:25:55ELECTORATE FEEL THAT WAY ANYMORE. I THINK THERE'S A FEELING AT
00:25:59LEAST SOMETIMES WHEN I TALK TO
00:25:59SOME PEOPLE ABOUT I'VE GOT MINE
00:26:03AND I WANT TO HOLD ON TO IT, YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH IT.
00:26:09THERE'S A I THINK YOU SAID THIS EARLIER, THERE'S A CYNICISM IN
00:26:11AMERICA THAT I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THERE OR NOT.
00:26:15SO I'M WONDERING IN YOUR OPINION, YOU TEACH STUDENTS, YOU
00:26:18TEACH GRADUATE STUDENTS, YOU TEACH LAW. WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM THEM?
00:26:21WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM 20 SOMETHINGS THAT NOW OBVIOUSLY, IT'S A SELF-SELECTED GROUP, RIGHT?
00:26:25THEY'VE GONE INTO LAW BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IN IT. BUT WHAT ARE THEY TELLING YOU
00:26:28ABOUT HOW THEY'RE FEELING AND HOW THEY'VE GROWN UP IN THE WORLD? THEY'VE GROWN UP IN?
00:26:32YEAH, I THINK THEY'RE ALL IN TRAUMA. I THINK ONE IS, YOU KNOW, THEY
00:26:35REFER TO THEM AS THE ANXIOUS GENERATION IN PART BECAUSE THEY
00:26:39HAVE SPENT SO MUCH TIME ON SOCIAL MEDIA, WHICH CONSTANTLY
00:26:43BOMBARDS YOU WITH ALL THE BAD THINGS IN THE WORLD. RIGHT. THEY GREW UP WITH SEEING SOME OF
00:26:46THE METOO MOVEMENT AND LEARNING ABOUT HOW PEOPLE IN THE WORLD
00:26:49BEHAVE. THEY GREW UP DURING THE COVID PANDEMIC AND LEARNED ABOUT HOW
00:26:53YOUR SOCIAL LIFE CAN BE TAKEN FROM YOU IN AN INSTANT.
00:26:57THEY HAVE GROWN UP IN THE WORLD OF, YOU KNOW, SINCE 2016, A
00:27:02POLITY OF HATE AND FEAR. AND SO I THINK THAT TAKES A TOLL
00:27:04ON A PERSON. BUT I THINK ONE OF THE WAYS THAT
00:27:09WE HELP YOUNG PEOPLE IS THEY'RE ALSO VERY CONCERNED ABOUT ISSUES
00:27:12LIKE AFFORDABILITY. YOU KNOW, YOUNG PEOPLE, EVEN
00:27:16THOSE BECOMING LAWYERS WHO WILL HAVE OPPORTUNITIES WITH AN
00:27:20INCOME IF THEY SO CHOOSE, THEY
00:27:22ARE WORRIED THAT THEY WILL NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO, YOU KNOW,
00:27:26AFFORD A HOME. THE FIRST THE AVERAGE AGE NOW OF FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS, 38 YEARS
00:27:30OLD, BECAUSE IT'S SO DIFFICULT TO BUY A HOME.
00:27:34I THINK THAT ONE OF THE WAYS WE CAN OVERCOME THIS MOMENT OF
00:27:37CYNICISM IS BY HAVING
00:27:41POLITICIANS WITH MORE THAN JUST US VERSUS THEM VISION, BUT A
00:27:44VISION OF WHAT'S GOING TO COME NEXT, NOT GOING BACK TO THE WAY
00:27:47THINGS WERE, BUT WHAT'S GOING TO COME NEXT.
00:27:50AND I THINK SPEAKING TRUTH TO THE WEALTH DISPARITY THAT HAS
00:27:54DEVELOPED IN THIS COUNTRY IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THAT
00:27:58EQUATION. AND SINCE THE 1980S, CHILDREN REALLY ARE WORSE OFF THAN THEIR
00:28:02PARENTS GENERATION. AND OF COURSE, WHAT THE MEGA
00:28:06EXTREMISTS WANT TO TELL YOU IS
00:28:08IT'S BECAUSE OF DIY OR IT'S BECAUSE OF IMMIGRANTS TAKING
00:28:11YOUR JOBS OR IT'S BECAUSE OF
00:28:14PREFERENCES FOR THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY OR NONSENSE LIKE THAT.
00:28:17IN FACT, IT IS ALL A FUNCTION OF
00:28:21THE KINDS OF POLICY THAT HAVE
00:28:23BEEN DEVELOPED IN GOVERNMENT SINCE THE 1980S.
00:28:27YOU KNOW, THE TAX CUTS FOR
00:28:30CORPORATE ACTIONS TO CUT SERVICE
00:28:32STATE TAXES, CUTS ON TAXES FOR
00:28:35CAPITAL GAINS, THE KINDS OF
00:28:37THINGS THAT BENEFIT THE WEALTHY.
00:28:39AND SO IS A FAMILY WORSE OFF TODAY THAN THEY WERE WHEN I WAS GROWING UP IN THE 1970S?
00:28:44YOU BET THEY WERE RIGHT. WE HAD A HUMBLE FAMILY.
00:28:48MY DAD WORKED. MY MOM STAYED HOME WITH THE KIDS
00:28:51AND WE COULD AFFORD A HOUSE, TWO CARS ON VACATIONS.
00:28:53YOU KNOW, WE LIVED A TRULY MIDDLE CLASS LIFESTYLE.
00:28:57AND TODAY THAT THAT JUST ISN'T THERE FOR PEOPLE.
00:29:00SO THEY'RE HURTING AND THEY'RE ANGRY. AND IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE.
00:29:04AND WE HAVE LEADERS WHO STOKE THAT ANGER AND TRY TO DIVIDE US
00:29:08WITH IT. I THINK WHAT WE NEED INSTEAD IS SOMEBODY WHO RECOGNIZES THESE
00:29:12WEALTH DISPARITIES AND WHY THEY'RE REALLY THERE AND BRINGS
00:29:14TOGETHER AN ALLIANCE OF BOTH
00:29:18PROGRESSIVES AND POPULISTS, PEOPLE WHO FEEL LEFT BEHIND IN
00:29:21LOTS OF WAYS. THAT IS A POWERFUL ALLIANCE.
00:29:25AND THERE'S A REASON WEALTHY PEOPLE HAVE SOUGHT TO DIVIDE
00:29:28THEM, DIVIDE AND CONQUER. AND SO YOUNG PEOPLE WHO CARE
00:29:32ABOUT ISSUES OF AFFORDABLE
00:29:34LIBERTY AND SAVING OUR PLANET, THOSE ARE THE ISSUES THEY CARE ABOUT.
00:29:38I THINK THERE'S ROOM FOR AT THE
00:29:40TABLE FOR THE ELITES AS WELL AS THE POPULISTS, AND THAT IS THE
00:29:44COALITION WE NEED TO BRING TOGETHER. AND I THINK WE'VE SEEN THAT IN THE PAST.
00:29:48CERTAINLY IF YOU LOOK AT THE EARLY PART OF THE 20TH CENTURY. YEAH.
00:29:51AGAIN, YOU TEACH COURSES IN CRIMINAL LAW, UNIVERSITY OF
00:29:55MICHIGAN LAW SCHOOL. SO HOW DO YOU APPROACH TEACHING IN THIS ERA? IT'S A DIFFICULT TIME.
00:29:59I KNOW MY COLLEAGUES WHO TEACH CONSTITUTIONAL LAW WILL JOKE
00:30:02THAT IT'S BECOME A BIT OF A HISTORY COURSE BECAUSE SOME OF
00:30:06THE MATERIALS THEY TALK ABOUT ARE NO LONGER TRUE.
00:30:10I TRY TO BE CANDID WITH STUDENTS.
00:30:13I TRY TO AVOID POLITICS WITH STUDENTS.
00:30:16AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE TALK ABOUT THE DOCTRINE, BUT WE ALSO
00:30:20RECOGNIZE CASES IN THE LAW. CERTAINLY, THERE HAVE BEEN
00:30:22PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITIES TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THESE CASES WHEN
00:30:26WE HAVE EXAMPLES. BUT STUDENTS WANT TO UNDERSTAND
00:30:30ABOUT WHEN THE LAW, ESPECIALLY AT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THESE
00:30:33DAYS, IS BEING USED IN A WAY THAT IS SO DIFFERENT FROM IN THE PAST.
00:30:37I SHARE WITH THEM MY EXPERIENCE WHEN I WORKED AT THE JUSTICE
00:30:41DEPARTMENT, AND WE ABIDED BY SOMETHING CALLED THE PRINCIPLES
00:30:43OF FEDERAL PROSECUTE IN THAT
00:30:46THOSE STILL EXIST, THAT THEY STILL SHOULD BE ABIDED WITH AND
00:30:50THAT I'M CONFIDENT THEY WILL BE AGAIN, IN THE FUTURE.
00:30:51BUT THEY HAVE RULES LIKE THE THE
00:30:56WHITE HOUSE SHOULD NEVER COMMUNICATE WITH THE JUSTICE
00:30:58DEPARTMENT ABOUT ANY SPECIFIC CASE.
00:31:02CERTAINLY WE'VE SEEN AND I AND I
00:31:04POINTED OUT WHEN WE HAVE A
00:31:06DIRECT MESSAGE ON TRUTH, SOCIAL
00:31:08TO PAM FROM THE PRESIDENT PRESUMABLY BODY SAYING WHY
00:31:12HAVEN'T WE INDICTED JIM COMEY OR LETITIA JAMES OR ADAM SCHIFF
00:31:16YET? THAT IS A DIRECT VIOLATION OF THOSE NORMS.
00:31:21ANOTHER ONE IS PROSECUTORS SHOULD NEVER ALLOW PARTIZAN
00:31:26POLITICS TO PLAY ANY ROLE IN A CHARGING DECISION WHEN THEY'RE
00:31:29EXERCISING DISCRETION. HARD TO SEE THAT AS BEING TRUE
00:31:32WHEN YOU'VE GOT THESE KINDS OF INDICTMENTS. AND FINALLY, ONE THAT IS
00:31:37IMPORTANT AND THAT I ALSO SHARE WITH THE STUDENTS IS UNDER THE
00:31:39ABA, THE ETHICS STANDARDS AND THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE'S OWN
00:31:44POLICY IS EVEN THOUGH A GRAND
00:31:46JURY IS PERMITTED TO RETURN AN
00:31:48INDICTMENT BASED ONLY ON A
00:31:50FINDING OF PROBABLE CAUSE, WHICH IS SIMPLY REASONABLE GROUNDS TO
00:31:54BELIEVE A CRIME WAS COMMITTED AND THIS PERSON COMMITTED IT.
00:31:57DOJ POLICY REQUIRES A MUCH HIGHER STANDARD.
00:32:00IT SAYS A PROSECUTOR SHOULD NOT
00:32:03USE ITS AWESOME POWER TO BRING
00:32:05AN INDICTMENT, WHICH OF COURSE, PUTS A PERSON THROUGH THE
00:32:09WRINGER WHEN THEY ARE CHARGED WITH A CRIME.
00:32:12THE EXPENSE OF LEGAL DEFENSE,
00:32:14THE EMOTIONAL CHARGE TO THEIR
00:32:16FAMILY, TO THEMSELVES, THE STRESS, THE HARM TO THE
00:32:20REPUTATION. A PROSECUTOR SHOULD NOT BRING THOSE CHARGES UNLESS THEY
00:32:25BELIEVE THE EVIDENCE IS SUFFICIENT TO OBTAIN AND SUSTAIN
00:32:27A CONVICTION. THAT MEANS THE MUCH HIGHER
00:32:31STANDARD OF GUILT BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.
00:32:34BUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING INSTEAD IN MY OPINION, IN CASES LIKE THE
00:32:38BROADVIEW SIX CASE OR THE CASE AGAINST JIM COMEY FOR THE
00:32:41SEASHELLS, IS THEY ARE THEY ARE SQUEAKING OUT SOME PROBABLE
00:32:45CAUSE. THEY'RE RIGHT. THEY'RE GETTING A GRAND JURY. AND AS WE SAW IN THE BROADVIEW
00:32:48SIX CASE, ONLY BY VOUCHING FOR
00:32:51SOME OF THEIR WITNESSES OR HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THE
00:32:55GRAND JURY OUTSIDE THE GRAND JURY ROOM OR DISMISSING GRAND
00:32:58JURORS WHEN THEY SHOW SOME SKEPTICISM ON THE CASE. WHOA.
00:33:01ALL OF THOSE WOULD BE ATTORNEY MISCONDUCT.
00:33:05BUT EVEN THEN, THEY'RE BARELY
00:33:07EKING OUT THE PROBABLE CAUSE TO GET AN INDICTMENT.
00:33:10THAT LOW STANDARD, BASED ON WHAT ED MARTIN, THE CHIEF OF THE
00:33:15WEAPONIZATION WORKING GROUP, CALLS NAME AND SHAME. HE HAS SAID, EVEN IF WE DON'T
00:33:19HAVE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE TO CONVICT DEFENDANT, WE ARE GOING
00:33:22TO NAME AND SHAME PEOPLE. THAT IS NOT HOW THE DEPARTMENT
00:33:25OF JUSTICE IS SUPPOSED TO WORK. AND I SHARE THAT WITH STUDENTS
00:33:29SO THAT THEY CAN LEARN THE PROPER ETHICS. SO IF AND WHEN THEY HAVE THESE
00:33:33JOBS, THEY'LL KNOW THE PROPER
00:33:35WAY TO DO IT.
00:33:40OF COURSE, THAT ASSUMES THERE WILL BE AN ADMINISTRATION THAT
00:33:43WILL HIRE THEM TO DO THAT AND NOT PUT THEIR OWN PEOPLE WHO ARE
00:33:47GOING TO THE FIXES. OPTIMISTIC BOOK.
00:33:49I KNOW I'M GOING TO GET TO THAT. BUT IF WE JUST FOLLOW THE FACTS
00:33:53OF THE CASE, SCHEDULING OUT A
00:33:56CASE, I MEAN, DO YOU SEE ANY
00:34:01WEAKENING OF THIS THIS POPULIST WAVE, THOUGH? I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE THINK WE'VE SEEN SHIFTS.
00:34:04WE SEE LAWYERS LIKE, YOU KNOW,
00:34:06MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE CHANGING HER TUNE AFTER THE FAILURE TO
00:34:09RELEASE THE EPSTEIN FILES. WE'RE SEEING SOME REPUBLICAN
00:34:13SENATORS DO A LITTLE MORE PUSH BACK, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE WAR IN IRAQ. ARE YOU SEEING SOME SIGNS THAT
00:34:17THIS POPULIST WAVE IS BREAKING?
00:34:19I DO. YOU KNOW, AND IT REMINDS ME OF
00:34:23EVERY FRAUD CASE I EVER PROSECUTED.
00:34:27EVENTUALLY, VICTIMS CATCH ON TO THE CONMAN BECAUSE EVENTUALLY
00:34:30THEY REALIZE HE IS NOT
00:34:33DELIVERING WHAT HE PROMISED.
00:34:35I'VE SEEN IT WITH CASES IN, YOU
00:34:37KNOW, INVESTOR FRAUD OR REAL ESTATE FRAUD WHERE PEOPLE
00:34:41PROMISE YOU THEY'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU THIS HUGE RETURN ON INVESTMENT OR YOU'RE GOING TO
00:34:44GET, YOU KNOW, THIS BEAUTIFUL LAND OR PROPERTY OR WHATEVER IT IS.
00:34:48EVENTUALLY PEOPLE REALIZE I DIDN'T GET WHAT I PAID FOR. AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE COMING
00:34:52AROUND NOW. THERE ARE PROBABLY SOME PEOPLE
00:34:55WHO, AS DONALD TRUMP ONCE SAID, YOU COULD YOU COULD SHOOT A PERSON ON FIFTH AVENUE AND THEY
00:35:00WOULD NEVER CHANGE THEIR MIND ABOUT HIM BECAUSE THEY YOU KNOW,
00:35:03THERE IS A PSYCHOLOGICAL ASPECT OF I CAN'T ADMIT I WAS WRONG.
00:35:07BUT I DO THINK WE ARE SEEING
00:35:09SOME OF HIS SUPPORT DIMINISH HIS
00:35:13PULL PULL DATA. BUT WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? HIS APPROVAL RATING IS IS PLUMMETING.
00:35:16AND I THINK IT'S BECAUSE THEY REALIZE, YOU KNOW, THE PRICE OF EGGS HAS NOT GONE DOWN.
00:35:20IN FACT, INFLATION IS UP.
00:35:21THE COST OF GAS IS, YOU KNOW, $5 A GALLON.
00:35:25HE SAID WE'D HAVE NO MORE FOREIGN WARS.
00:35:27AND HE ATTACKED VENEZUELA AND NOW IRAN.
00:35:29AND WE'VE BEEN IN A WAR WITH THEM FOR FOUR MONTHS.
00:35:33HE PROMISED TO REVEAL THE EPSTEIN FILES, AND THERE'S STILL
00:35:37REDACTIONS ON MANY OF THEM. WE DIDN'T GET WHAT WE WERE
00:35:40PROMISED, AND I THINK THAT IF PEOPLE ARE BEING HONEST WITH
00:35:44THEMSELVES, THEY WILL RECOGNIZE THAT THERE IS NO THERE THERE
00:35:47THERE'S NO POLICY IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
00:35:49IT IS ALL ABOUT A POWER GRAB,
00:35:52ENRICHMENT FOR THE PRESIDENT BY
00:35:54EXPLOITING DIVISIONS IN SOCIETY,
00:35:57GETTING US TO BE ANGRY WITH EACH
00:35:59OTHER, ALL THE WHILE HE IS PICKING OUR POCKETS.
00:36:03THERE'S SEVERAL QUESTIONS WE
00:36:05HAVE FROM THE AUDIENCE, AND I'D LIKE TO GET TO THOSE.
00:36:09THIS THIS ACTUALLY TIES INTO WHAT YOU WERE JUST SAYING.
00:36:11HOW MUCH IMPACT HAS HAS THE READING INTO INEQUALITY OF
00:36:16INCOME AND WEALTH DISTRIBUTION HAD AND THE ABILITY TO CORRUPT THE GOVERNMENT?
00:36:19I THINK WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT EARLIER. YES. WELL, I THINK THAT ONE OF THE
00:36:23THINGS WE'VE SEEN IN THIS ADMINISTRATION IS THE TECH
00:36:27BILLIONAIRES GRAVITATING TOWARD
00:36:28THIS PRESIDENT IN HIS PRIOR TERM.
00:36:32PEOPLE LIKE JEFF BEZOS AND MARK ZUCKERBERG SPOKE OUT AGAINST HIM.
00:36:36THEY REFERRED TO, YOU KNOW, HIM
00:36:39AS ENGAGING IN FALSE CLAIMS.
00:36:42THEY DID FACT CHECKING ON THEIR
00:36:47PLATFORMS AND NOT ANYMORE. THEY HAVE COME AROUND.
00:36:49I THINK THEY'VE GOTTEN SMART,
00:36:52TOO, TO A DEGREE AND REALIZED
00:36:54THAT THE WAY TO CASH IN IS BY
00:36:56JUST GOING ALONG TO GET ALONG.
00:36:58AND SO WE SAW THEM SITTING FRONT
00:37:01AND CENTER AT THE PRESIDENT'S SECOND INAUGURAL, AND HE WAS
00:37:05ONLY TOO HAPPY TO GIVE THEM FRONT ROW SEATS TO DISPLAY THEM LIKE TROPHIES.
00:37:10ELON MUSK OF COURSE. BUT I THINK ALL OF THEM REALIZED
00:37:12THAT ULTIMATELY NOBODY GETS TO USURP THE BOSS.
00:37:17THERE'S ONE PERSON WHO'S IN CHARGE. IT REMINDS ME OF A CASE I
00:37:19PROSECUTED AGAINST FORMER DETROIT MAYOR KWAME KILPATRICK.
00:37:23IN THAT CASE, HE WAS EXTORTING
00:37:27BUSINESSES. YOU HAD TO PAY A KICKBACK IF YOU WANTED TO DO BUSINESS WITH THE
00:37:30CITY OF DETROIT. AND THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, ONE WHO
00:37:33REALLY EXEMPLIFIED THIS IDEA. YOU KNOW, THEY THOUGHT THAT IF
00:37:37YOU PAY OFF THE EXTORTION
00:37:40PIANIST ONE TIME, THEN EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE. I'M GOING TO MAKE MY PAYMENT AND
00:37:44EVERYTHING WILL BE GREAT. AND I THINK WE'RE SEEING THIS
00:37:46WITH SOME OF THESE TECH BILLIONAIRES. ELON MUSK RIGHT.
00:37:50I'M GOING TO SUPPORT THIS PRESIDENT AND THEN I'M GOING TO BE ON EASY STREET BECAUSE I'VE
00:37:54GOT MY STARLINK AND I'VE GOT MY SPACE X AND I'VE GOT ALL THIS
00:37:58GREAT STUFF AND I'M GOING TO MAKE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS.
00:38:01SO I'M GOING TO HAVE MY PAL IN THE WHITE HOUSE IN THIS CASE
00:38:05INVOLVING THE DETROIT MAYOR,
00:38:07THERE WAS A CONTRACTOR WHO PAID
00:38:10A BRIBE, A KICKBACK, BECAUSE HE WANTED A DEAL.
00:38:12HE HAD LOST BUSINESS CONTRACTS WITH THE CITY BEFORE BECAUSE HE
00:38:16HAD REFUSED. AND FINALLY, HE REALIZED HE HAD EMPLOYEES TO PAY.
00:38:20HE HAD FAMILIES, YOU KNOW, BILLS
00:38:22TO PAY. AND SO HE AGREED TO PAY WHAT HE
00:38:26CONSIDERED A SMALL KICKBACK IN EXCHANGE FOR THIS TENDER DOLLAR CONTRACT.
00:38:29BUT WHAT HE REALIZED WAS THE EXTORTIONIST ALWAYS COMES BACK
00:38:33FOR MORE BECAUSE THEY WOULD KEEP COMING BACK AND SAY, I NEED MORE
00:38:37MONEY, I'D NEED MORE MONEY, I NEED MORE MONEY. AND SO HE WAS NEVER SATISFIED
00:38:41WITH WITH THE INITIAL PAYMENT. AND SO HE LEARNED HIS LESSON THE HARD WAY.
00:38:46I THINK IN THE SAME WAY, YOU KNOW, ELON MUSK WITH HIS DOGE,
00:38:48THEIR RELATIONSHIP LASTED A FEW MONTHS.
00:38:51HE MADE SOME CUTS, SOME DISASTROUS THINGS LIKE KILLING
00:38:56USAID AND THEN THEY PARTED WAYS
00:38:58OVER THE BIG, BEAUTIFUL BILL AND
00:39:02SUDDENLY ELON MUSK WAS ON THE OUTS.
00:39:05AND REMEMBER, HE HE THREW THE FLAME OUT THERE. HE WENT NUCLEAR WHEN HE SAID
00:39:09TRUMP'S WORRIED ABOUT THE EPSTEIN FILES.
00:39:12AND THAT'S WHEN THEY SEVERED ALL TIES.
00:39:15AND SO I THINK THEY REALIZE ULTIMATELY THAT THERE'S ONLY ONE WINNER HERE.
00:39:19IT IS THE PERSON CALLING THE SHOTS AT THE TOP. SO EVEN THOSE WHO I THINK
00:39:25BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE OKAY, THEY'RE GOING TO CASH IN.
00:39:28THEY'RE GOING TO LEARN THE HARD WAY THAT EVEN THEY DON'T BENEFIT
00:39:31IN THIS SOCIETY.
00:39:34HERE'S AN AUDIENCE QUESTION AS WELL. HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE FOR THE
00:39:38LEGACY OF INCOMPETENCE AND IDEOLOGUES TO SUBSIDE AFTER THE REGIME ENDS?
00:39:42BOY, THAT'S A REALLY GREAT QUESTION, AND I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.
00:39:45I WORRY VERY MUCH ABOUT THIS. AND IT'S GETTING WORSE ALL THE TIME.
00:39:49WE HAVE NOT YET SEEN THE SUPREME COURT'S DECISION IN A COUPLE OF
00:39:52CASES THAT ARE BEFORE IT AND ARE WE'RE GOING TO SEE IN THE NEXT
00:39:56WEEK OR TWO. I THINK THAT IS THE CASE OF THE
00:39:59FIRING OF AN FTC COMMISSIONER
00:40:02AND THE FIRING OF A FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD GOVERNOR.
00:40:05YOU KNOW, SINCE 1883, WHEN CONGRESS PASSED THE PENDLETON
00:40:09ACT, WE HAVE HAD IN THIS COUNTRY WHAT I CONSIDER THE CROWN JEWEL
00:40:13OF GOVERNMENT, AND THAT IS AN INDEPENDENT PROFESSIONAL CIVIL SERVICE.
00:40:17IT USED TO BE, OF COURSE, A SPOILS SYSTEM WHERE THE
00:40:20PRESIDENT WOULD REWARD HIS PALS, HIS DONORS WITH A NEW JOB.
00:40:24SURE YOU WANT A JOB IN MY ADMINISTRATION AS THE HEAD OF THE PORT AUTHORITY.
00:40:28COME ON IN. AND HE WOULD ACCEPT BRIBES AND
00:40:31PUT PEOPLE IN THESE POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY.
00:40:33BUT WHEN CONGRESS CREATED THE
00:40:35PROFESSIONAL CIVIL SERVICE, IT MEANT PEOPLE WERE HIRED ON THE
00:40:39BASIS OF MERIT. THEY COULD NOT BE FIRED WITHOUT
00:40:42MISCONDUCT, AND THEY WERE ABLE TO DEVELOP EXPERTISE AND INDEPENDENCE.
00:40:46TRUMP REFERS TO THESE PEOPLE AS THE DEEP STATE.
00:40:49THEY ARE THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T GO ALONG WITH EVERYTHING HE WANTS TO DO.
00:40:53THEY FOLLOW THE LAW. THEY FOLLOW THE SCIENCE.
00:40:55THEY FOLLOW THEIR EXPERTISE.
00:40:57AND SO HE WANTS TO RID OUR GOVERNMENT OF THEM.
00:41:01HE RECENTLY PASSED SOMETHING CALLED SCHEDULE F THAT RECLASSIFIED 8000 FEDERAL
00:41:07EMPLOYEES AS AT WILL EMPLOYEES. THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE JOBS.
00:41:09THAT INCLUDES SOME POLICYMAKING. BUT THESE TWO SUPREME COURT
00:41:13OPINIONS ARE GOING TO ADDRESS WHAT IS REFERRED TO AS THE
00:41:17UNITARY EXECUTIVE THEORY.
00:41:19THE IDEA THAT THE VESTING CLAUSE OF THE CONSTITUTION VESTS ALL
00:41:23EXECUTIVE POWER IN A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, AND THAT
00:41:26MEANS HE CAN HIRE AND FIRE ANYONE HE WANTS IN THE EXECUTIVE
00:41:30BRANCH. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE WAY THE COURT WILL COME OUT. IT APPEARS TO ME THAT THEY ARE
00:41:36IN WHEN IT COMES TO FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSIONERS, EVEN THOUGH
00:41:39IT MIGHT REQUIRE OVERTURNING A CASE FROM 1935 THAT RULED JUST
00:41:42THE OPPOSITE WAY, EXCEPT THEY
00:41:46SEEM TO BE WILLING TO MAKE AN
00:41:48EXCEPTION THAT TRUMP CAN FIRE ANYBODY WHO WANTS, EXCEPT FOR
00:41:51THE GOVERNORS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD, WHO SET INTEREST
00:41:55RATES BECAUSE THAT MIGHT SCREW
00:41:55UP ALL THE MONEY.
00:42:00WHAT DO YOU THINK? YOUNG PEOPLE SHOULD BE DOING TO
00:42:03HELP COMBAT THE GROWTH OF FASCISM IN GOVERNMENT? AND HOW CAN WE BEST GET
00:42:07INVOLVED? OH, I'M SO GLAD TO HEAR THAT. YOU KNOW, FOR YOUNG PEOPLE.
00:42:10BUT ALL PEOPLE, IT'S NOT JUST YOUNG PEOPLE.
00:42:13BUT I KNOW YOU HAVE A PARTICULAR
00:42:15STAKE IN THIS BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT
00:42:17A LOT OF YEARS LEFT TO LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY.
00:42:21I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT WE THAT PEOPLE CAN DO IMMEDIATELY. THE FIX TALKS ABOUT SOME
00:42:25INSTITUTIONAL THINGS, BUT ALSO THINGS THAT WE THE PEOPLE CAN DO
00:42:29RIGHT NOW. YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY WE CAN GET
00:42:33OUT THERE AND ENGAGE IN PEACEFUL PROTEST. I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF YOU
00:42:37PARTICIPATED IN ANY OF THE NO KINGS PROTESTS.
00:42:42IT'S. I THINK THESE ARE INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE.
00:42:46THERE IS A RESEARCHER AT HARVARD IN POLITICAL SCIENCE NAMED ERIKA
00:42:51CHENOWITH, AND SHE HAS STUDIED REGIME CHANGE IN HUNDREDS OF COUNTRIES.
00:42:54AND SHE HAS CONCLUDED THAT IF
00:42:58ONLY 3.5% OF THE PUBLIC ENGAGES
00:43:00IN PEACEFUL PROTEST, THEY CAN
00:43:02EFFECT REGIME CHANGE.
00:43:05AND THE REASON IS THAT IT HAS A
00:43:09EXPONENTIAL CASCADING EFFECTS ON OTHERS.
00:43:13SO I KNOW SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S ALL THE SAME
00:43:15OLD PEOPLE OUT THERE, BUT LIKE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, IF NOT
00:43:19MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PARTICIPATING IN THESE PROTESTS.
00:43:22I HAD A CHANCE TO ATTEND ONE IN
00:43:26GETTYSBURG, PENNSYLVANIA, AND IT WAS SUCH A GREAT CROSS-SECTION
00:43:30OF AMERICAN PEOPLE. THERE WAS A PRIEST THERE AND HIS
00:43:32PRIEST COLLAR, YOU KNOW, HOLDING A SIGN THAT SAID SOMETHING LIKE
00:43:36IN AMERICA, THE ONLY MONARCHS SHOULD BE BUTTERFLIES.
00:43:39LIKE, YEAH, IT WAS GREAT, GREAT STUFF. AND, YOU KNOW, A HIGH SCHOOL
00:43:42TEACHER WITH HER STUDENTS IN IT, YOU KNOW, A GUY IN A UNICORN COSTUME.
00:43:45IT WAS A JOYFUL EXPRESSION OF DEMOCRACY, OF PEOPLE COMING
00:43:49TOGETHER. SO WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT. BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO WAIT FOR
00:43:52SOMETHING TO GET ORGANIZED LIKE THAT. IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO
00:43:55PLUG IN, THERE'S SOME REALLY GREAT ORGANIZATIONS.
00:43:58YOU KNOW, YOUR LOCAL PARTY
00:44:00AFFILIATES FOR YOUR CITY, YOUR COUNTY AND YOUR CONGRESSIONAL
00:44:04DISTRICT ALL HAVE ORGANIZED OR ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE LOOKING
00:44:07FOR VOLUNTEERS TO KNOCK ON DOORS AND WRITE POSTCARDS OR WORK ON
00:44:11PHONE BANKS AND DELIVER YARD SIGNS.
00:44:13THERE IS ALSO ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE JUST ABOUT GOOD GOVERNANCE
00:44:17AND DEMOCRACY BUILDING, LIKE THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS AND
00:44:21INDIVISIBLE CHAPTERS.
00:44:23THEY'RE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND THEY'RE JUST LOOKING FOR PEOPLE
00:44:26TO HELP BUILD OUT GOOD DEMOCRACY.
00:44:30YOU KNOW, THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS, OF COURSE, WAS FOUNDED WHEN WOMEN GOT THE RIGHT TO VOTE IN 1920.
00:44:34AND THERE WERE CRITICS WHO SAID THEY WON'T KNOW WHO TO VOTE FOR.
00:44:37SO THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS GOT TOGETHER TO PREPARE GOOD
00:44:39INFORMATION ABOUT THAT CANDIDATE.
00:44:44FORUMS, VOTER GUIDES WITH JUST INFORMATION ABOUT THE
00:44:46BIOGRAPHICAL BACKGROUND OF CANDIDATES AND WHERE THEY STAND ON ISSUES.
00:44:50THEY NEED VOLUNTEERS TO HELP THEM WITH THAT WORK.
00:44:53THAT'S GREAT WORK THAT WE CAN ALL DO.
00:44:56WE CAN VOTE.
00:44:58WE CAN DRIVE PEOPLE TO THE POLLS.
00:45:02WE CAN RUN FOR OFFICE OURSELVES. IF YOU'RE INTERESTED, THERE'S A
00:45:05GREAT ORGANIZATION CALLED RUN FOR SOMETHING THAT HELPS YOU.
00:45:09IF YOU SAY, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO RUN FOR SOMETHING. THEY'LL TEACH YOU.
00:45:12THEY HAVE TRAINING PROGRAMS AND HELP YOU WORK YOUR WAY UP THE
00:45:16CHAIN. YOU CAN WORK ON A CAMPAIGN. I KNOW SOMETIMES WE THINK ABOUT
00:45:19I GOT TO WORK ON A CAMPAIGN FOR THE PRESIDENT OR A SENATOR, BUT
00:45:22MAN, THERE ARE CANDIDATES IN ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT WHO NEED
00:45:25YOUR HELP. COUNTY CLERKS WHO RUN OUR ELECTIONS.
00:45:29WE NEED GOOD PEOPLE IN THOSE JOBS.
00:45:31SO LOTS OF GOOD THINGS THAT WE CAN DO OURSELVES.
00:45:35AND THE ONE THING THAT'S THE EASIEST THAT WE CAN DO TODAY IS
00:45:39TALK TO THE PEOPLE IN OUR SPHERE OF INFLUENCE.
00:45:42PEOPLE LISTEN TO OTHERS THAT THEY TRUST AND SHARE WITH THEM
00:45:46THE INFORMATION THAT CONCERNS YOU AND LET THEM KNOW WHAT
00:45:50MATTERS. THERE MAY BE SOME HARD CORE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO WILL NEVER
00:45:53BE CONVINCED OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE DANGERS OF IT.
00:45:56BUT THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO JUST AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION. WE TALKED ABOUT THAT, RIGHT?
00:45:59THE CYNICAL PEOPLE. THE PEOPLE. WHO ARE YOU KNOW, BUSY TONIGHT
00:46:03WATCHING THE CAGE FIGHT, THE
00:46:07PEOPLE WHO I KNOW YOU'RE ALL ANXIOUS TO GET OUT AND GO SEE IT.
00:46:11RIGHT. WE NEED TO JUST REMIND THEM WHAT'S AT STAKE. AND SO TALK TO YOUR FRIENDS.
00:46:15YOU KNOW, YOUNG PEOPLE, AS IMPORTANT AS YOU ARE, STILL VOTE
00:46:19IN VERY LOW PERCENTAGE AGES. GET YOUR FRIENDS TO GO OUT AND VOTE.
00:46:23THAT'D BE A GREAT THING TO DO.
00:46:29SPEAKING OF ENGAGEMENT, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT CIVIC ENGAGEMENT. I THINK WHEN YOU'RE TALKING
00:46:33ABOUT POLITICS, IT'S LOADED NO MATTER WHAT. SO WHAT REALLY REALISTICALLY CAN
00:46:36WE DO TO TALK TO SOMEONE, FRIEND
00:46:40OR FAMILY MEMBER, ANYONE THAT WE
00:46:42KNOW WHO MAY BE ON THAT OPPOSITE SIDE THINKING THAT THIS IS TRUMP
00:46:46DERANGEMENT SYNDROME? MAYBE THEY LIKE LIKE THE GUY FOR
00:46:50WHATEVER REASON, OR MAYBE THEY JUST THINK THAT IT'S THIS IS OVERBLOWN.
00:46:53IT'S NOT THAT BAD.
00:46:55YOUR ARGUMENT OBVIOUSLY IS IT IS THIS IS A ONCE IN A LIFETIME
00:46:59MOMENT. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM? HOW DO YOU ENGAGE THEM?
00:47:03HOW DO YOU TALK WITH THEM? WELL, CERTAINLY IN THIS COUNTRY,
00:47:06WE'RE ALL ENTITLED TO OUR OWN OPINIONS AND OUR OWN VIEWPOINTS.
00:47:08AND THERE MAY BE POLICY THAT THEY PREFER FROM THE REPUBLICAN
00:47:12PARTY, AND THAT'S FINE. YOU KNOW, I DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT OR A REPUBLICAN.
00:47:15THERE ARE VALID POLICY CHOICES THAT WE CAN MAKE.
00:47:19BUT I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE ISSUES WITH REGARD TO THIS
00:47:22PARTICULAR PRESIDENT THAT THAT
00:47:24WHETHER IT'S THE CORRUPTION OR
00:47:26THE CRUELTY OR THE CHAOS OF CHOOSING A CABINET BASED ON
00:47:32FEALTY INSTEAD OF COMPETENCE, THAT IS REALLY HARMING OUR COUNTRY.
00:47:35AND SO TO TALK TO THOSE PEOPLE, I THINK YOU NEED TO BEGIN BY
00:47:40LISTENING, ASKING WHY, YOU KNOW, WHY DO YOU SUPPORT THIS PRESIDENT OR WHAT ISSUES ARE
00:47:44MOST IMPORTANT TO YOU WHEN YOU VOTE? AND LISTENING AND MAYBE EVEN
00:47:47ASKING THEM?
00:47:49DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE THAT I CAN READ TO HELP ME BETTER
00:47:53UNDERSTAND AND YOUR PERSPECTIVE AND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM? AND YOU HAVE TO DO THAT.
00:47:57YOU HAVE TO DO THAT WORK. AND ONCE YOU DO, MAYBE THAT
00:48:00CREATES AN OPENING TO SHARE WITH THEM. HEY, I READ WHAT YOU ASKED ME TO
00:48:04READ AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THIS IS MISGUIDED.
00:48:10I'VE READ SOMETHING THAT SAYS DEAD PEOPLE AND IMMIGRANTS ARE
00:48:13NOT VOTING IN LARGE NUMBERS IN OUR ELECTIONS FOR EXAMPLE.
00:48:18WOULD YOU READ AN ARTICLE THAT
00:48:19THAT I HAVE READ THAT CONVINCED ME OTHERWISE?
00:48:23AND MAYBE BECAUSE YOU TOOK THE FIRST STEP OF READING WHAT THEY
00:48:27SUGGESTED OR LISTENING TO WHAT THEY HAD TO SAY, THEY'LL BE WILLING TO LISTEN TO YOU.
00:48:31BUT I THINK IT HAS TO COME FROM RESPECT AND CURIOSITY.
00:48:34AND IT MAY BE THAT BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE STUBBORN AND BECAUSE
00:48:37PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO ADMIT THEY'RE WRONG OR PEOPLE HAVE STRONG OPINIONS, YOU MAY NOT
00:48:40CHANGE THEIR MIND OR THEY MAY NOT ADMIT YOU'VE CHANGED THEIR MIND. BUT IF YOU CAN AT LEAST PLANT A
00:48:46SEED, YOU MAY BE ABLE TO BEGIN A DIALOG WITH THAT PERSON.
00:48:49OR THEY MAY WALK AWAY THINKING,
00:48:52HUH, MAYBE I OUGHT TO RETHINK WHERE I STAND ON THIS.
00:48:56WHAT'S THE MOST SURPRISING
00:48:59RESPONSE YOU'VE GOTTEN TO YOUR WRITING? EITHER YOUR FIRST BOOK OR THIS
00:49:04BOOK? THE MOST SURPRISE RESPONSE I
00:49:07HAVE RECEIVED. HMM. I DON'T KNOW.
00:49:10I MEAN, I SUPPOSE I GET, YOU
00:49:14KNOW, SOCIAL MEDIA COMMENTS ABOUT IT SOMETIMES.
00:49:18IT'S VERY KIND AND SOMETIMES IT'S VERY NASTY.
00:49:21AND SO MAYBE THAT'S WHAT IT IS,
00:49:23IS THAT HOW VIGOROUS THE DEBATE
00:49:27CAN BE OUT THERE?
00:49:29AND HOW SOME OF IT FEELS SO, YOU
00:49:31KNOW, RUSSIAN BOT DRIVEN? YEAH.
00:49:35PEOPLE CALLING ME NAMES CLEARLY
00:49:37HAVEN'T READ THE BOOK, BUT WANT
00:49:40TO PIGEONHOLE ME INTO A PARTICULAR CATEGORY.
00:49:44SIMPLY BECAUSE I HAVE EXPRESSED SOME VIEWS OPPOSING THE CURRENT
00:49:48PRESIDENT.
00:49:48YOU KNOW, I'M A VERY MODERATE
00:49:52PERSON IN MY VIEWS. I'M I'M VERY PRO LAW IN ORDER
00:49:56PERSON. I'VE SPENT MY CAREER AS A PROSECUTOR.
00:49:58AND SO IT IS UNFAMILIAR TO ME TO
00:50:00BE CAST AS A LUNATIC, LEFT WING HIPPIE.
00:50:04BUT, YOU KNOW, WE I'LL TAKE IT.
00:50:08MAYBE. MAYBE I WEAR IT AS A BADGE OF HONOR.
00:50:11I'M IN PUBLIC RADIO.
00:50:13I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THAT.
00:50:16SOMETHING ABOUT THE HAIR YOU
00:50:21ALWAYS DO. PODCAST SISTERS IN LAW. I KNOW.
00:50:24I'VE ENJOYED. I'VE BEEN ENJOYING LISTENING TO THAT LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS.
00:50:28TELL ME MORE ABOUT IT. HOW DID YOU COME BECOME A PODCASTER? OH, THANK YOU.
00:50:31WELL, WHAT IS THIS? PODCASTING? THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT SO MUCH.
00:50:34DOESN'T EVERYONE HAVE A PODCAST THESE DAYS? YOU SAID IT WAS MANDATORY.
00:50:38I DIDN'T KNOW I HAD AN OPTION. SO THE OTHER CO-HOST, JILL WINE
00:50:44BANKS, FORMER WATERGATE
00:50:46PROSECUTOR JOYCE VANCE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, WHO I KNEW FROM
00:50:49MY DAYS AS A U.S. ATTORNEY DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION,
00:50:53AND KIMBERLY ATKINS STORE, A LAWYER TURNED JOURNALIST FOR THE
00:50:56BOSTON GLOBE, ARE MY THREE CO-HOSTS. ALL FOUR OF US ARE LEGAL
00:51:01ANALYSTS FOR THE STATION FORMERLY KNOWN AS MSNBC, NOW
00:51:05KNOWN AS ME.
00:51:07NOW AND A PODCAST PRODUCER ACTUALLY CAME TO US AND SAID,
00:51:11HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE A
00:51:12PODCAST WHERE THE FOUR OF YOU WOULD GET TOGETHER TO TALK ABOUT
00:51:16LEGAL ISSUES, BUT PERHAPS A DEEPER DIVE THAN YOU HAVE AN
00:51:19OPPORTUNITY TO DO ON TELEVISION WHERE YOU GET A SEGMENT OF MAYBE, YOU KNOW, 5 TO 10
00:51:23MINUTES. IT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, AN HOUR. SO YOU COULD DIVE A LITTLE
00:51:27DEEPER AND TALK ABOUT THAT. THEY SAID THINK OF IT AS THE
00:51:30VIEW FOR THE THINKING WOMAN.
00:51:34AND WE SAID, WELL, WE'D LIKE TO APPEAL TO MEN AND WOMEN.
00:51:36BUT THEY SAID, ALL RIGHT, WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK? WE SAID, WELL, WE'LL GIVE IT A
00:51:40TRY AND WE'LL SEE HOW IT WORKS. AND WE JUST LOVE IT.
00:51:43ONE IS WE REALLY LOVE EACH OTHER. WE'RE VERY FOND OF EACH OTHER
00:51:47AND I REALLY RESPECT THE VIEWPOINTS OF THE OTHER THREE.
00:51:49WE SOMETIMES DIFFER. WE'VE GOT SOME GENERATIONAL
00:51:53DIVIDE, SOME RACIAL DIVIDES AND GEOGRAPHIC DIVIDES AMONG US.
00:51:56AND SO I THINK SOMETIMES THAT BRINGS DIFFERENT JUST DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.
00:51:59SO WE'LL TALK ABOUT ISSUES IN THE NEWS. WE'RE TRYING TO INFORM
00:52:03LISTENERS, BUT ALSO SHARE SOME ANALYSIS AND PERSPECTIVE.
00:52:06AND I'LL TELL YOU, I CAN'T. WE RECORD LATE FRIDAY
00:52:10AFTERNOONS. I SO LOOK FORWARD TO THE END OF THE WEEK.
00:52:13WE HAVE SOME LAUGHS, BUT IT'S ALSO A CHANCE TO SORT OF PROCESS
00:52:17WHAT THEY'RE THINKING. I SHARE WHAT I'M THINKING, BUT
00:52:20THEY GIVE ME SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT WITH WHAT THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT ISSUES AS WELL.
00:52:24THEY'RE ANSWERING LISTENER QUESTIONS. WE DO.
00:52:26IT IS OUR FAVORITE PART. WE ANSWER LISTENER QUESTIONS,
00:52:29YOU KNOW, SORT OF LIKE WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW.
00:52:32IT'S GREAT TO LISTEN TO, TO ANSWER LISTENER QUESTIONS
00:52:34BECAUSE I THINK SOMETIMES WHEN YOU COME AT PROBLEMS AS A
00:52:38LAWYER, YOU ACCEPT THE STATUS QUO AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ASK
00:52:42THEIR WHY NOT? AND YOU START TO THINK, YOU KNOW
00:52:47WHY NOT? AND SO REIMAGINING WHAT OUR
00:52:50COUNTRY COULD BE IS A WONDERFUL
00:52:54THING. AND WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE WITH FRESH PERSPECTIVE, IT GIVES YOU
00:52:57A FRESH PERSPECTIVE. IS THERE SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE
00:53:00LEARNED BY DOING THAT PODCAST OR
00:53:02SOMETHING YOU LEARN FROM YOUR STUDENTS THAT CHANGED YOUR
00:53:06PERSPECTIVE? OH, ABSOLUTELY. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS YOU
00:53:10LEARN I LEARNED FROM MY STUDENTS
00:53:12IS THAT YOU NEVER KNOW ALL OF
00:53:14THE HARDSHIPS PEOPLE ARE DEALING WITH.
00:53:18EVERYBODY IS CARRYING SOMETHING AROUND WITH THEM.
00:53:21AND YOU PROBABLY WOULD NOT KNOW
00:53:23THAT FROM THE WAY YOU INTERACT WITH THEM EVERY DAY.
00:53:27WHEN YOU ARE PARTNERING ON A
00:53:29PODCAST OR WORKING WITH
00:53:31STUDENTS, YOU LEARN ABOUT SOME REALLY HEAVY STUFF.
00:53:34YOU KNOW, DEATH OF A PARENT,
00:53:37SERIOUS ILLNESS, ADDICTIONS,
00:53:42SUBSTANCE ABUSE, FRIENDS IN
00:53:45DEATH OF FRIENDS BY SUICIDE. AND YET THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO SHOW
00:53:48UP IN CLASS AND BE READY TO GO AND PREPARED TO BE CALLED ON AND
00:53:52TALK ABOUT A CASE. IT MAKES YOU REALIZE THAT
00:53:56EVERYBODY YOU ENCOUNTER ON A DAILY BASIS MAY BE CARRYING
00:53:58SOMETHING HEAVY AND SO DEALING
00:54:00WITH PEOPLE WITH KINDNESS AND RESPECT, I THINK IS REALLY
00:54:03IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S
00:54:08DRIVING THEM TO PURSUE A CAREER IN LAW. IS IT I ASSUME IT'S MUCH THE
00:54:12SAME AS YOUR EXPERIENCE WAS. IT IS.
00:54:15IN FACT, IF ANYTHING, I WILL SAY THE LAW STUDENT OF THE 2020S IS
00:54:18MUCH MORE IDEALISTIC THAN THE LAW STUDENT OF THE 1980S.
00:54:22I THINK THE 1980S WAS THE ERA OF WALL STREET, AND GREED IS GOOD
00:54:27AND GORDON GEKKO AND ALL THAT. CERTAINLY THERE WAS SOME
00:54:29IDEALISM IN OUR CLASS, BUT ALSO
00:54:31PEOPLE WERE INTERESTED IN THE BIG LAW FIRM JOB.
00:54:34AND, YOU KNOW, THE BIG PAYDAY ON WALL STREET. AND I SEE SO MANY OF OUR
00:54:38STUDENTS TODAY MOTIVATED BY
00:54:40THINGS THEY SAW EITHER THE METOO
00:54:44MOVEMENT, THE GEORGE FLOYD
00:54:46POLICE BEATING, AND THEY WANT TO
00:54:48GO OUT AND BE PART OF A SOLUTION. THEY WANT TO USE THE LAW AS A
00:54:53TOOL TO MAKE LIFE MORE JUST FOR OTHERS.
00:54:56AND IT'S REALLY INSPIRING TO BE
00:54:58ABLE TO HELP DEVELOP UP IN THEM
00:55:00A DEEP UNDERSTANDING OF THE RULE OF LAW SO THEY CAN GO OUT AND
00:55:03SEEK JUSTICE.
00:55:07YEAH.
00:55:11HOW'D YOU GET ROBERT DE NIRO TO
00:55:12WRITE A BLURB FOR YOUR BOOK?
00:55:15THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
00:55:18SO, YEAH, ROBERTSON NIRO WROTE A
00:55:20BLURB FOR MY BOOK, HOW GREAT IS THAT?
00:55:24SUPER EXCITED.
00:55:26MY PUBLISHER, WHICH IS WONDERFUL.
00:55:29SEVEN STORIES PRESS OUT OF NEW YORK. THESE ARE THE GREATEST PEOPLE
00:55:32I'VE DEALT WITH. THEY, THEY, THEY PUBLISHED MY
00:55:35FIRST BOOK AND ALSO I DIDN'T
00:55:37THINK TWICE ABOUT WHERE I WOULD PUBLISH MY SECOND BOOK BECAUSE
00:55:41THEY'RE SO GREAT. AND I WORKED WITH A WONDERFUL EDITOR THERE NAMED GREG
00:55:44RUGGIERO, AND HE SAID TO ME,
00:55:48WHO'S LIKE YOUR DREAM PERSON TO BE A BLURB OR FOR YOUR BOOK?
00:55:53I DON'T KNOW. HE SAID, I THINK WE SHOULD DO DIFFERENT PEOPLE WHO BOOK FROM
00:55:56THOSE WHO BLURBED YOUR FIRST BOOK. MANY OF THEM WERE FELLOW
00:55:59PROSECUTORS, PEOPLE WHO WORKED IN THE LAW.
00:56:02AND HE SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S ABOUT THE MOB WHO WOULD BE LIKE YOUR TOP CHOICE?
00:56:06LIKE, I DON'T KNOW. ROBERT DE NIRO. RIGHT. I MEAN, HE WAS IN THE GODFATHER,
00:56:10TOO.
00:56:11HE WAS IN GOODFELLAS, RIGHT?
00:56:14HE IS, YOU KNOW, THE EPITOME
00:56:16ISES THE IDEA OF THE MOB.
00:56:18AND I ALSO HAVE COME TO ADMIRE HIM BECAUSE HE'S BEEN VERY
00:56:23OUTSPOKEN IN, YOU KNOW, RISKING HIS LIVELIHOOD AS AN ACTOR.
00:56:27IT'S RISKY TO GO OUT THERE AND SPEAK OUT. AND HE DOES.
00:56:29HE SPEAKS OUT AT RALLIES, AT NO KINGS RALLIES AND OTHER THINGS
00:56:33ABOUT ABUSES BY THIS PRESIDENT.
00:56:36AND SO MY EDITOR SAID, LET ME SEE IF I CAN GET A HOLD OF HIS AGENT.
00:56:40AND HE DID. AND IT TURNED OUT THAT ROBERT
00:56:44DENIRO SO ADMIRED MY WORK.
00:56:48WOW. AND HE SAID, YES.
00:56:50AND SO WE SENT HIM A MANUSCRIPT.
00:56:53AND A FEW MONTHS LATER HE WROTE THIS GREAT BLURB AND IT'S ON THE
00:56:56COVER OF THE BOOK. IT'S FANTASTIC. YEAH.
00:57:00YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU DON'T ASK, RIGHT? THERE YOU GO. I GUESS THAT'S TRUE.
00:57:05WHAT ARE YOU HOPING PEOPLE REALLY TAKE AWAY FROM THIS BOOK? WHAT'S A WHAT'S SOMETHING THAT I
00:57:09HAVEN'T ASKED OR THE AUDIENCE HASN'T ASKED TONIGHT? WHAT DO YOU REALLY HOPE SOMEONE
00:57:12WHO PICKS UP THIS BOOK MAYBE OFFHANDEDLY?
00:57:14WHAT DO YOU HOPE THEY TAKE AWAY FROM IT?
00:57:16I HOPE THEY THEY TAKE AWAY A
00:57:19RESTORED OPTIMISM ISM AND HOPE
00:57:24THAT WE, THE PEOPLE, HAVE THE POWER IN THIS COUNTRY.
00:57:26I THINK WE HAVE CEDED OUR POWER
00:57:28TO POLITICIANS IN WASHINGTON.
00:57:31WERE FOND OF COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM.
00:57:33BUT WE HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE.
00:57:36YOU KNOW, IN THE SAME WAY YOU
00:57:38SAID YOU KNOW, WOW, HOW DID YOU
00:57:40GET THE DE NIRO BLURB?
00:57:42YOU GOT TO ASK, BUT YOU GOT TO DO IT.
00:57:45WE'VE WE'VE AMENDED OUR CONSTITUTION 27 TIMES.
00:57:48AND YET SOMEHOW IN THIS MOMENT, IT SEEMS THAT WE FEEL POWERLESS.
00:57:52JEANNE SHAHEEN, YOUR VERY OWN,
00:57:55HAS PROPOSED A CONSTITUTIONAL
00:57:57AMENDMENT TO OVERTURN CITIZENS UNITED.
00:58:00LET'S GO. WE CAN DO THAT.
00:58:06NOBODY LIKES THIS. THIS THIS CASE EXCEPT FOR THE
00:58:09BILLIONAIRES WHO USE IT TO THEIR ADVANTAGE.
00:58:11BUT THERE ARE MORE OF US THAN THERE ARE OF THEM.
00:58:15WE CAN DO THIS, YOU KNOW,
00:58:17ELECTING PEOPLE WHO HAVE A
00:58:20VISION FOR THE FUTURE, MAKING LIFE MORE AFFORDABLE.
00:58:22WE CAN DO THIS RIGHT?
00:58:26WE THE PEOPLE, HAVE THE POWER TO TAKE BACK OUR GOVERNMENT.
00:58:29AND SO WHAT I HOPE IS THAT PEOPLE WILL READ THE FIX AND SEE
00:58:32SOME OF THE IDEAS. SOME OF THEM ARE PRETTY BOLD,
00:58:35LIKE CREATING A FOURTH BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT AND PUTTING THE
00:58:39JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THERE SO IT WON'T BE POLITICIZED. BUT SOME OF THEM ARE FAR MORE
00:58:43MODEST. LIKE LET'S USE RANKED CHOICE VOTING LIKE THEY USE UP IN MAINE
00:58:46OR THEY USE IN ALASKA. LET'S STOP GERRYMANDERING THE
00:58:50WAY WE HAVE IN MY HOME STATE OF MICHIGAN BY CREATING AN
00:58:54INDEPENDENT CITIZEN'S REDISTRICTING COMMISSION.
00:58:56WE CAN DO THIS. AND SO WHAT I HOPE IS THAT
00:58:59PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER THAT IT'S WE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE POWER
00:59:03AND WILL BE INSPIRED TO DO SOMETHING, EVEN IF IT'S
00:59:06SOMETHING SMALL, BECAUSE COLLECTIVELY IT CAN BE SOMETHING
00:59:13BIG. ONE FINAL QUESTION.
00:59:15IF YOU HAD TO PRIORITIZE THE FIX
00:59:19YOU HAD, YOU GAVE US A LITANY RIGHT THERE.
00:59:21BUT IF YOU HAD TO PRIORITIZE,
00:59:24WHAT'S THE TOP THREE, TOP THREE OF INSTITUTIONAL THINGS?
00:59:27I'LL GIVE YOU ONE FROM EACH OF THE THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.
00:59:31SO IN THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH, WE GOT TO RESTORE THE ROAD TO OUR
00:59:35CONGRESS, RIGHT? THAT'S ARTICLE ONE FOR A REASON. AND SO SOME OF THESE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT, LIKE
00:59:40GERRYMANDERING, RANKED CHOICE VOTING. BUT I ALSO LIKE THE IDEA OF PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION,
00:59:44WHICH GIVES US MORE SEATS IN CONGRESS SO THAT WE CAN ELECT
00:59:48MORE PEOPLE FROM EACH DISTRICT, WHICH WOULD MEAN OUR DISTRICTS
00:59:50ARE NOT SO SOLIDLY RED AND BLUE
00:59:52ROOM FOR SOME PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE, THAT'S THE LEGISLATIVE
00:59:56BRANCH IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.
00:59:59I THINK WE NEED TO CODIFY SOME OF THESE NORMS I TALKED ABOUT EARLIER AT THE JUSTICE
01:00:03DEPARTMENT SO THAT IT CAN'T BE WEAPONIZED BY A PRESIDENT WHO
01:00:07WANTS TO USE IT AS A TOOL OF RETRIBUTION.
01:00:09LET'S CODIFY THOSE INTO THE LAW. AND THIRD, IN THE JUDICIAL
01:00:13BRANCH, I WOULD TAKE THE U.S. MARSHALS SERVICE, WHICH IS NOW
01:00:16PART OF THE DEPARTMENT OF
01:00:18JUSTICE AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH
01:00:20CREATED BY THE JUDICIARY ACT OF 1789 BY CONGRESS.
01:00:24MOVE IT OVER TO THE JUDICIARY, WHICH WE COULD DO THROUGH AN ACT
01:00:28OF CONGRESS SO THAT WE CAN PUT SOME TEETH INTO THOSE COURT
01:00:32ORDERS. WHEN AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH SAYS WE'RE NOT GOING TO OBEY A COURT
01:00:36ORDER, A JUDGE COULD HOLD THEM
01:00:38IN CONTEMPT AND ORDER THEM JAIL
01:00:41HELD FOR CIVIL CONTEMPT UNTIL
01:00:43THEY DO.
01:00:50I'M OUT OF QUESTIONS.
01:00:54BARBARA MCQUADE, THANK YOU SO MUCH. IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE.
01:01:03NOW, BEFORE WE GO, THIS DOESN'T JUST HAPPEN.
01:01:06I HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE TO THANK. THE MUSICAL ACTING PRESIDENT AND
01:01:10CEO JOE GLEASON. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING US. NEW HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC RADIO'S
01:01:14PRESIDENT AND CEO, MY BOSS, JIM SCHACHTER, NEW HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC
01:01:17RADIO PRODUCER SARAH PLOURDE, WHO EXPERTLY TAKES CARE OF ALL
01:01:21THAT. I ASKED YOU ABOUT ALL YOUR QUESTIONS TONIGHT AND ALSO HELP
01:01:25ME MANAGE MINE. I ALSO WANT TO THANK NEW
01:01:29HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC RADIO'S PROGRAM DIRECTOR, EMILY QUIRK, AND I WANT TO THANK THE MUSICAL
01:01:33LITERARY PRODUCER BRITTANY WASSON, THE MUSICAL PRODUCTION
01:01:35MANAGER AIDAN KELLERMAN, THE MUSICAL LIVE SOUND RECORDING
01:01:38ENGINEER AND MARTIN, WHO ALWAYS HAS A FANTASTIC JOB. THE MUSICAL LIGHTING.
01:01:42A CINEMA COORDINATOR DREW FABRIZIO AND MUSICAL DIRECTOR AND THE BAND.
01:01:46YOU KNOW HIM WELL, BOB LORD AND DREADNOUGHT.
01:01:49THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU.
01:01:54ALL. AND ONCE AGAIN, THANK YOU SO
01:01:56MUCH TO BARBARA MCQUADE.