Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00FORUM WE'RE DISCUSSING THE LATEST ISSUES IN WASHINGTON AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
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00:00:52CAMPAIGN 2026 IS UNDERWAY, AND THE STAKES COULDN'T BE HIGHER.
00:00:55EVERY SEAT IN THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES IS UP
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00:01:17YOU DEMOCRACY UNFILTERED. ALL RIGHT.
00:01:20TODAY WE'RE DIGGING INTO THE FOURTH AMENDMENT WITH A
00:01:24PARTICULAR FOCUS ON WHAT IT MEANS FOR OUR PHONES. AS YOU ALL KNOW, THE FOURTH IS
00:01:27PART OF THE CONSTITUTION THAT PROTECTS YOU FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND SEIZURES BY OUR
00:01:31GOVERNMENT. BUT THE TROUBLE IS THAT THE AMENDMENT WAS WRITTEN IN THE 18TH CENTURY.
00:01:35MEANWHILE, OUR PHONES ARE
00:01:37BASICALLY MINI SUPERCOMPUTERS, SLASH CAMERAS, SLASH JOURNALS,
00:01:41SLASH CREDIT CARDS, SLASH SURVEILLANCE BEACONS, AND WE
00:01:44CARRY THEM ALL AROUND VOLUNTARILY ALL THE TIME.
00:01:48SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THESE TWO WORLDS COLLIDE? WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ALL THE
00:01:51LANGUAGE AND ALL THE IDEAS MEET
00:01:53NEW TECHNOLOGIES? I WANT TO START BY BREAKING DOWN
00:01:56THE TEXT OF THE AMENDMENT, BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT GOING ON
00:01:59THERE OFF THE BAT.
00:02:01IT'S NOT JUST BROAD.
00:02:03IT SAYS VERY SPECIFICALLY
00:02:07AMERICANS HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE SECURE IN THEIR PERSON'S HOUSES, PAPERS AND AFFECTS THAT SPECIFIC
00:02:12LANGUAGE. SO THAT'S YOU. THAT'S YOUR HOUSE PAPERS OR
00:02:14ESSENTIALLY, I DON'T KNOW, THINK OF IT AS YOUR EMAILS RIGHT NOW,
00:02:17WHICH IS PEOPLE WOULD COLLECT THEIR CORRESPONDENCE. AND THEN, OF COURSE, YOUR AFFECTS, WHICH IS JUST ANOTHER
00:02:21WAY OF SAYING YOUR STUFF. THE ONE THING I REALLY WANT YOU TO PAY ATTENTION TO IS THESE ARE
00:02:25TANGIBLE THINGS AND THEY WERE WRITTEN IN THE 18TH CENTURY AS
00:02:28TANGIBLE THINGS AS YOUR DATA AND
00:02:31EFFECT, MAYBE, OR YOUR EMAILS IS WHAT'S IN THE CLOUD IN EFFECT,
00:02:34MAYBE SOMETHING WE'LL TALK ABOUT. ALSO, IT DOESN'T JUST PROTECT YOU FROM SEARCHES AND SEIZURES
00:02:38BY THE GOVERNMENT. IT PROTECTS YOU SPECIFICALLY FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND
00:02:43SEIZURES. THAT FIRST WORD IS VERY SLIPPERY. IT'S BROAD. WHAT'S CONSIDERED REASONABLE,
00:02:47WHAT'S GOING TO SAY IT OR NOT. BUT UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND SEIZURES. WE TALKED ABOUT PLAIN VIEW
00:02:51DOCTRINE BEFORE. IF A POLICE OFFICER IS WALKING BY YOUR HOUSE AND THE WINDOWS
00:02:54ARE OPEN AND THERE IS A BRICK OF
00:02:56HEROIN AND AN RPG SITTING ON YOUR TABLE, YEAH, THEY DON'T GET A WARRANT.
00:03:00THEY'RE GOING TO ABLE TO JUST GO IN AND DO IT. UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND SEIZURES ARE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
00:03:03THE LAST THING I REALLY WANT YOU TO KEEP YOUR EYE ON IS THIS
00:03:06ISSUE OF THE WARRANT PROVISION. THE FOURTH AMENDMENT DOES NOT
00:03:10SAY THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T GO THROUGH YOUR PRIVATE LIFE, YOUR PRIVATE HOME AND INVADE YOUR
00:03:14MOST PRIVATE PRECINCTS. WHAT IT DOES SAY IS POLICE CAN'T
00:03:16DO THAT WITHOUT A WARRANT.
00:03:18SO ESSENTIALLY, LAW ENFORCEMENT AND WE KNOW WHAT BRANCH OF LAW ENFORCEMENT WORKS FOR THE
00:03:24EXECUTIVE BRANCH. RIGHT. YOU HAVE EITHER A MAYOR, POLICE COMMISSIONER OR SOMETHING LIKE
00:03:27THAT, A GOVERNOR, OR IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF THE FBI.
00:03:31SO ONE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, LAW ENFORCEMENT, WHICH IS THE
00:03:33VANGUARD FOR INVESTIGATIONS, THEY THINK SOMETHING'S GOING ON,
00:03:36SOME CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. THEY WANT TO LOOK AT SOMEBODY. THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO JUST ACT UNILATERALLY.
00:03:40THE FOURTH AMENDMENT SAYS THEY HAVE TO GO TO A JUDGE, A LEGAL EXPERT, AND THEY HAVE TO GET A
00:03:44WARRANT AND THEY'RE GOING HAVE TO ESTABLISH PROBABLE CAUSE. SO THEY CAN'T JUST WALK UP TO THE JUDGE.
00:03:48AND THE JUDGE IS LIKE, WHY DO YOU WANT TO GET IN THIS GUY'S HOUSE? AND IT'S LIKE, I DON'T KNOW. I JUST HAVE LIKE A LIKE A GUT, A
00:03:53HUNCH. I FOLLOW MY GUT. THE JUDGES CAN BE LIKE, ABSOLUTELY NOT, RIGHT? THAT'S NOT GOING TO WORK. THIS ISN'T TV.
00:03:57IT'S NOT THE MOVIES. YOU HAVE TO ESTABLISH PROBABLE CAUSE. YOU HAVE TO ESTABLISH SOME
00:04:00PATTERN OF SUSPICION IN THAT A JUDGE THEY'RE GOING TO AGREE OR
00:04:03NOT AGREE ON. AND BEFORE THEY GIVE YOU THE WARRANT TO GO AFTER WHAT YOU WANT TO LOOK AT, YOU HAVE TO
00:04:08SWEAR AN OATH. AND YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LIE TO A JUDGE THAT'S CALLED PERJURY.
00:04:11AND IT'S AGAINST THE LAW. SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS HAPPENING.
00:04:15BUT ONE THING TO REALLY PAY ATTENTION TO IS THAT LAST PART. IT'S NOT SAYING THAT THE
00:04:18GOVERNMENT CAN'T GO THROUGH YOUR MOST PRIVATE EFFECTS AND THE
00:04:22MOST PRIVATE ASPECTS OF YOUR LIFE. WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS LAW ENFORCEMENT CAN'T DO THAT.
00:04:26UNILAG ORALLY. THEY NEED TO GO TO A LEGAL EXPERT, TWO BRANCHES OF
00:04:29GOVERNMENT, THE EXECUTIVE WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE
00:04:31JUDICIARY WITH JUDGES ARE BOTH GOING TO LOOK AT IT AND THEN
00:04:35THEY'RE GOING TO AGREE WHETHER THEY'RE GREENLIGHTED OR NOT DO IT.
00:04:37THE FOUNDERS WERE VERY, VERY HELD.
00:04:40THE IDEA OF THE SANCTITY OF THE HOME AND THE SANCTITY OF PRIVATE
00:04:43PROPERTY TO BE SACRED. AND THEY UNDERSTOOD THE GOVERNMENT WOULD SOMETIMES NEED
00:04:47TO INVADE THOSE THINGS. BUT DEFINITELY NOT KIND OF JUST
00:04:50LIGHTHEARTEDLY THAT THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE A LOT OF HOOPS TO JUMP THROUGH BEFORE THAT CAN HAPPEN.
00:04:53BUT WE'RE FOR LOOK AT THESE THREE CASES. I WANT TO LOOK AT THINGS THAT
00:04:57DEAL SPECIFICALLY WITH YOUR PHONES. THAT'S HOMESTEAD FROM 1928.
00:05:02CATS FROM 1967 AND CARPENTER VERSUS IN 2018.
00:05:05WE'RE GOING TO DO OHM'S STEAD
00:05:07AND CATS TODAY AND CARPENTER, WHICH IS ABOUT TRACKING YOUR
00:05:10CELL PHONE THROUGH ALL OF THE CELL SITE TOWERS THAT ARE APPARENTLY EVERYWHERE.
00:05:14SOMETIMES THEY'RE PAINTED LIKE TREES. WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT NEXT CLASS BECAUSE IT'S
00:05:18COMPLICATED AND IT DEALS WITH A LEGAL CONCEPT CALLED THIRD PARTY DOCTRINE. BUT ALL THREE OF THESE CASES,
00:05:22HOMESTEAD, THEN KATZ, THEN CARPENTER, ARE REGARDED AS MAJOR
00:05:26CASES IN AMERICAN CONSTITUTIONAL HISTORY. AND WHILE THERE ARE ABOUT PHONES, THEY'RE NOT JUST ABOUT
00:05:31PHONES. TOGETHER, THESE CASES HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLY INFLUENTIAL IN
00:05:33SHAPING THE LARGER EVOLUTION OF
00:05:36FOURTH AMENDMENT JURISPRUDENCE OVER THE 20TH AND THE 21ST CENTURY IS NOW THE FOURTH AMENDMENT.
00:05:40TODAY DEALS PRIMARILY WITH ILLEGAL SEARCHES OF HOMES BY
00:05:44POLICE, BUT THERE'S ALL OF THESE COURT CASES THAT HELP EXPAND THE
00:05:48FOURTH AMENDMENT BEYOND THE ORIGINAL TEXT IN THE NAME OF A
00:05:50RIGHT TO PRIVACY AND IN THE NAME OF LIBERTY AND FREEDOM FROM
00:05:53GOVERNMENT OPPRESSION AS A CIVILIZATION, AS AMERICANS,
00:05:57WE'VE COME TO VIEW THE FOURTH AMENDMENT AS SOMETHING THAT RECOGNIZES OUR PRIVACY, THE NEED
00:05:59FOR OUR FREEDOMS TO BE PROTECTED IN THE FACE OF RAPID
00:06:03TECHNOLOGICAL PROGRESS WE LIVE IN A WONDROUS TECHNOLOGICAL
00:06:06GOLDEN AGE, BUT THERE'S NO WAY THAT THE FRAMERS OF THE CONSTITUTION EVER COULD HAVE
00:06:10ANTICIPATED TECHNOLOGY FROM OUR MODERN WORLD. WHEN MADISON WRITES THE BILL OF
00:06:13RIGHTS, HE'D NEVER SEEN A PHOTOGRAPH AND HE NEVER HEARD RECORDED RECORDED SOUND BEFORE,
00:06:17THE FOUNDERS DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT AN AUDIO RECORDING WAS. THEY WERE ALONE, CONCEIVE OF
00:06:20LIKE AN EYE FOR AN IPHONE 17 PRO OR WITH LIKE A WIFE.
00:06:24360 THAT'S CONNECTED TO A CLOUD THAT'S ALSO KIND OF LIKE YOUR
00:06:27CREDIT CARD, BUT ALSO LIKE HAS TRACTION ON IT. RIGHT? THIS IS A CONCEPT THAT YOU CAN'T
00:06:31EXPECT THE FOUNDERS TO DEAL WITH. BUT WHAT DO WE DO? DO WE PASS NEW LAWS?
00:06:34OF COURSE WE DO. BUT TO WHAT EXTENT CAN WE LOOK AT THE BLUEPRINT THAT IS OUR
00:06:38CONSTITUTION FOR WHAT THE FOUNDERS MIGHT HAVE DONE WITH THIS AS WELL?
00:06:41BECAUSE DESPITE THIS, OR MAYBE BECAUSE OF THIS, THE FOURTH AMENDMENT HAS EVOLVED OVER THE
00:06:46CENTURIES TO MEET THE GROWING PRIVACY AND LIBERTY THREATS THAT
00:06:49TECHNOLOGY FACES AND AS THESE THREE MAJOR CASES, THEY HAVE A
00:06:52LOT TO DO WITH THAT PROGRESSION. FIRST UP IS GOING TO BE OLMSTEAD.
00:06:56THIS IS A SUPREME COURT CASE FROM 1928. IT'S THE FIRST TO DEAL WITH
00:07:00POLICE AND WIRE TAPPING. SHOW OF HANDS.
00:07:03AND WE KNOW WHO INVENTED THE TELEGRAPH.
00:07:06THE PRECURSOR, THE FIRST PHONE
00:07:09KIND OF, YEAH. SAMUEL MORSE.
00:07:14SAMUEL MORSE INTRODUCED THE TELEGRAPH IN THE 1840S. AND LIKE FIVE MINUTES LATER,
00:07:19PEOPLE BEGAN FIGURING OUT WAYS TO INTERCEPT THE MESSAGES THAT RAN ALONG CROSS ITS WIRES, WHICH
00:07:23MAKES SENSE. INFORMATION IS VALUABLE, VALUABLE, WHICH WE HAVE LEARNED IN COLLEGE. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.
00:07:27INFORMATION IS ALSO A COMMODITY. IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN BUY AND SELL AND THE ABILITY TO
00:07:31LISTEN TO CONVERSATIONS THAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK IS PRIVATE CAN HAVE A MULTITUDE OF BENEFITS.
00:07:36BACK DURING THE CIVIL WAR, THE UNION AND CONFEDERATE ARMIES
00:07:38BOTH STARTED INTERCEPTING THE TELEGRAPH COMMUNICATIONS OF
00:07:41THEIR OPPONENTS TO GET A TACTICAL ADVANTAGE ON THE BATTLEFIELD WEREN'T ABOUT SUPPLY
00:07:45LINES. CONFEDERATE GENERAL JEB STEWART. HE EVEN BOASTED ABOUT HAVING HIS OWN WIRE MAN.
00:07:49THAT WAS ATTACHED TO HIS COMPANY THAT HE WOULD BE ABLE TO GO AROUND AND CONSTANTLY USE FOR
00:07:54WIRETAP UPS. LATER, GILDED AGE NEWSPAPERS, THAT'S YELLOW JOURNALISM. REMEMBER THAT THE
00:07:59SPANISH-AMERICAN WAR AND ALL THAT STUFF YOU LEARN IN HIGH SCHOOL, THEY WOULD CONSTANTLY
00:08:01INTERCEPT EACH OTHER'S WIRE TRANSMISSIONS TO TRY TO CHECK OUT SCOOP ONE ANOTHER.
00:08:05SO THIS TECHNOLOGY EXISTS VERY, VERY QUICKLY. PEOPLE START FIGURING OUT WHERE
00:08:09THERE'S SOME VALUABLE CONVERSATIONS GOING ON IN THESE LINES. I WANT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S
00:08:13GOING ON NOW. TELEPHONES, THEY ENTERED THE
00:08:16PUBLIC MAINSTREAM BASICALLY IN
00:08:19THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY.
00:08:22THEY'RE VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE PERSON TO PERSON INTERFACE THAT WE USE TODAY.
00:08:25WHEN THEY'RE INTRODUCED, THEY'RE MUCH SIMPLER. SEE ALL THESE WIRES?
00:08:28IT'S BECAUSE THE TECHNOLOGICAL AND FINANCIAL CONSTRAINTS OF THE
00:08:31EARLY TELEPHONE ERA MADE IT SO
00:08:33THAT ALL OF THE PHONES WERE KIND
00:08:35OF LOOPED TOGETHER IN A SINGLE NETWORK.
00:08:38AND I MEAN NETWORK LIKE VERIZON OR T-MOBILE. I MEAN, NETWORK AS IN ALL OF THE
00:08:42PHONES IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD WERE CONNECTED TO EACH OTHER AND
00:08:45THERE WAS NO SWITCHBOARD TO KIND OF MOVE THEM BACK AND FORTH.
00:08:48THESE ARE ALL PARTY LINES. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? YOU PICKED UP YOUR PHONE AND
00:08:54EVERYONE IN YOUR LIKE, NETWORK, IN YOUR COMMUNITY WAS ON THE PHONE AT THE SAME TIME.
00:08:57SO IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE A PHONE CALL, YOU WOULD MEET SOMEONE IN
00:09:00PERSON AND BE LIKE, HEY, I'LL PICK UP YOUR PHONE AT 730. AND THEY'RE LIKE, ALL RIGHT, COOL. AND THEN THEY COME IN AND PICK
00:09:04UP THE PHONE. EXCEPT YOU HAVE EARLY EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY THERE.
00:09:07NO, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE BORED WHO ARE JUST SITTING AT HOME LISTENING
00:09:11TO PEOPLE'S PHONE CALLS ALL DAY.
00:09:1324 SEVEN USE A CALL PARTY LINES. IT'S THE EARLY WAY. TELEPHONES DID THEIR THING.
00:09:17BUT MY POINT IS, PICKING UP THE PHONE IN THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY, NOBODY THOUGHT THAT THAT
00:09:21CONVERSATION WAS GOING TO BE PRIVATE. IF THEY DID, YOU WERE STUPID. YOU JUST WERE COMPLETELY OUT OF
00:09:24TOUCH WITH THE WAY THESE THINGS WORKED. PARTY LINES WERE VERY POPULAR
00:09:28AND IT WAS CHEAP, BUT EVENTUALLY PEOPLE STARTED PUSHING FOR MORE
00:09:31AND MORE TO THEIR PHONE COMPANIES.
00:09:33THIS DEMAND TO HAVE ONE ON ONE CONVERSATIONS.
00:09:36OBVIOUSLY YOU CAN'T SET UP DIRECT PHONE LINES BETWEEN PEOPLE'S HOUSES ON A LARGE
00:09:40SCALE. IT'S NOT LIKE KIDS WITH CANS AND
00:09:42WAXED WIRES NEXT DOOR TO EACH OTHER. IT'S COMPLICATED.
00:09:45SO EVENTUALLY WHAT THE PHONE COMPANIES DO IS THEY CREATE A
00:09:48SYSTEM THAT'S CENTRALIZED AND HAS AUTOMATED SWITCHING.
00:09:52THIS IS THE RISE OF THE AMERICAN
00:09:54KIND OF ICONIC OPERATOR WHO'S
00:09:58SWITCHING CALLS FROM BACK AND FORTH. AND THIS IS REVOLUTIONARY
00:10:00BECAUSE NOW YOU CAN CONNECT CALLS BETWEEN CALLERS, THE
00:10:04OPERATORS WOULDN'T STAY ON THE LINE A LOT OF THE TIME. AND THIS WOULD BE A SECURE CONNECTION BETWEEN TWO INDIVIDUALS.
00:10:08AND AS THE 20TH CENTURY PROGRESSED, THIS HAS BECOME MORE AND MORE LIKE THE NORM.
00:10:13AND IT'S REVOLUTIONARY. IT PROVES TO BE VERY PROFITABLE FOR PHONE COMPANIES.
00:10:16AND WHILE IT DOESN'T ELIMINATE PARTY LINES COMPLETELY, IT DOES PAVE THE WAY TO THIS ESTABLISHED
00:10:22SOCIAL EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY FOR TELEPHONE COMMUNICATIONS.
00:10:25AND THEN FINALLY, BY THE 1920S, IF YOU'RE TALKING ON THE PHONE, YOU CAN EXPECT THAT YOUR
00:10:29CONVERSATION FOR THE MOST PART, IS GOING TO BE A PRIVATE ONE. BUT THIS DEVELOPMENT, IT CUTS
00:10:33BOTH WAYS, BECAUSE IF PEOPLE NOW
00:10:36KNOW THAT PHONE CONVERSATIONS COME WITH THE EXPECTATION OF
00:10:40PRIVACY, IT MEANS THAT PEOPLE ARE AWARE THAT MORE INTIMATE
00:10:42DETAILS ARE BEING SHARED OVER THESE PHONE LINES AND PEOPLE
00:10:45START ACTIVELY TAPPING THESE PHONE LINES JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH TELEGRAPHS, BUSINESSES,
00:10:49PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS, LAW ENFORCEMENT. THEY'RE QUICK TO TAKE ADVANTAGE
00:10:52OF THE BENEFITS OF LISTENING TO PHONE CONVERSATIONS HELD BY PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT THAT THEY
00:10:56WERE SPEAKING IN PRIVATE. WHICH BRINGS US TO THIS GUY.
00:10:59THIS IS ROY OLMSTEAD. HE IS A GANGSTER.
00:11:02HIS NICKNAME IS BIG BOY ROY AND BIG BOY ROY IS A BOOTLEGGER.
00:11:06YOU KNOW. A BOOTLEGGER IS. THERE'S THAT TEN YEAR PERIOD WHERE WE ALL LOST OUR MINDS AS A
00:11:10CIVILIZATION AND DECIDED TO PASS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO BAN ALCOHOL.
00:11:13DON'T GET ME WRONG. I'M NOT SAYING DRY COUNTIES SHOULDN'T BE A THING IN THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.
00:11:16IF YOUR COMMUNITY VOTES AND THEY WANT A DRY ACCOUNT, COOL. WHAT I'M SAYING IS THE
00:11:20CONSTITUTION IS A DIFFERENT LEVEL, RIGHT? IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S KIND OF
00:11:24DIFFERENT WHENEVER THIS IS MY OPINION, NOT ESTABLISHED FACT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S A CONTROVERSIAL ONE.
00:11:28ANYWAY. OKAY. THAT'S REALLY, REALLY GOOD AT HIS JOB. HE'S A VERY SUCCESSFUL
00:11:32BOOTLEGGER AND HE RUNS THIS LARGE OPERATION OUT OF SEATTLE. AND WHAT THEY DO IS THEY
00:11:35SMOTHER, THEY SMUGGLE CANADIAN BOOZE BY SEA THROUGH A NAVY
00:11:39YARD, LIKE A NAVY FOR DISTRIBUTION FOR THE UNITED STATES.
00:11:43I KNOW WE HEAR ALL THESE STORIES IN LIKE OUR LAW ABOUT LIKE MOONSHINE AND BATHTUB GIN AND
00:11:47STUFF LIKE THAT. WELL, THAT DEFINITELY EXISTED IN A LOT OF PARTS OF THE COUNTRY. IF YOU REALLY WANTED TO MAKE
00:11:51MONEY IN BOOZE DURING PROHIBITION, YOU JUST IMPORTED GOOD STUFF. THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE WANTED.
00:11:55THAT MOONSHINE. ALSO, YOU KNOW, IT'S INCONSISTENCY IN TERMS OF TASTE,
00:11:59BUT ALSO IN TERMS OF STRENGTH. YOU DRINK IT, YOU CAN GO BLIND, RIGHT? IT'S BLACK. IT'S NOT THAT STANDARDIZED THING THAT YOU WANT.
00:12:04SO IF YOU'RE IMPORTING BOOZE, THAT'S HOW YOU MAKE MONEY DURING PROHIBITION. AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE
00:12:09DOING. REMEMBER YOUR MAP. SEATTLE IS LIKE RIGHT THERE. CANADA IS RIGHT THERE. YOU'RE JUST LIKE OVER.
00:12:12AND THEN THERE YOU GO. SUDDENLY YOU HAVE BOOZE. IT'S ALL IN AMERICA. HE'S SO GOOD AT HIS JOB THAT
00:12:17INVESTIGATORS ESTIMATE THAT THE ORGANIZATION TAKES IN PROFITS OF
00:12:21AROUND $2 MILLION A YEAR IN $1,928.
00:12:23SO IT'S A MASSIVE OPERATION NOW.
00:12:26OLMSTEAD HAS A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS IN HIS HOUSE. THIS IS THE ACTUAL HOUSE, AND
00:12:29THERE ARE PHONE LINES RUNNING INTO THE HOUSE. AND HE MAKES CALLS TO COORDINATE
00:12:33THINGS BECAUSE HE'S KIND OF IN CHARGE OF MOST OF THE OPERATION.
00:12:36AND HE HAS A HOME OFFICE AND HE
00:12:39COORDINATES A LOT THROUGH HIS HOME OFFICE. SO THE FEDS GO OUTSIDE OF HIS
00:12:43HOUSE, OUTSIDE OF HIS HOUSE, INSTALL A WIRETAP ON HIS PHONE
00:12:47LINE THAT GOES DIRECTLY TO HIS HOME OFFICE, AND THEY GET EVERYTHING THEY WANT AND MORE.
00:12:50IT'S A ABSOLUTE COUP. MAJOR CAREER CASE.
00:12:54IT'S A CASE THAT EVENTUALLY RESULTS IN THE INDICTMENT OF MORE THAN 70 PEOPLE.
00:12:57YOU HAVE BOOKKEEPERS, YOU HAVE SECRETARIES, YOU HAVE ATTORNEYS, YOU HAVE SALESMEN.
00:13:01YOU HAVE A NUMBER OF CORRUPT SEATTLE POLICEMEN. IF YOU'RE ON THE FEDS AND YOU'RE ON THIS, THIS IS THE CAREER
00:13:05CASE. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO HELP GET YOU PROMOTED. IT'S ALSO MAKES MAJOR HEADLINES,
00:13:09THE SCALE OF IT, THE SCOPE OF IT, THE FACT THAT LIKE GANGSTERS
00:13:11WAS BECOMING A REALLY, REALLY
00:13:13POPULAR EMBEDDED IN OUR POPULAR CULTURE.
00:13:16IT WAS JUST IN SENSATIONAL STORY ALL OVER NATIONAL NEWS.
00:13:20BUT AND THIS IS A BIG BUT, THE
00:13:22FEDS NEVER GOT A WARRANT BEFORE
00:13:24INSTALLING THE WIRETAPS ON WHICH
00:13:27OLMSTEAD CONVICTION DEPENDED. AND SO THIS LEFT A WINDOW FOR
00:13:30OLMSTED'S LAWYERS TO APPEAL ON FOURTH AMENDMENT GROUNDS. REMEMBER, THE FOURTH AMENDMENT
00:13:34SAYS YOU NEED TO GET A WARRANT BEFORE MESSING WITH SOMEBODIES
00:13:36PERSONS HOUSES, PAPERS AND EFFECTS. OLMSTED'S LAWYERS ARE LIKE, HEY,
00:13:40YOU ESSENTIALLY PENETRATED MY CLIENT'S HOME OFFICE WITHOUT RECORDING DEVICES.
00:13:44AND THE FOURTH AMENDMENT SAYS YOU NEED A WARRANT TO DO THAT. AND THERE'S A CLEAR
00:13:47CONSTITUTIONAL DILEMMA HERE. SO THE SUPREME COURT EVENTUALLY AGREES TO HEAR THE CASE.
00:13:51IN 1928. AND THIS PUTS A LOT OF INTERESTING QUESTIONS BEFORE THE COURT.
00:13:55THIS IS A TAFT COURT. FORMER PRESIDENT WILLIAM HOWARD
00:13:58TAFT ENDS UP LEAVING THE PRESIDENCY AFTER HIS TERM IS
00:14:00OVER AND THEN, YOU KNOW, MOST PEOPLE JUST DO SPEAKING TOURS
00:14:04AND HANG OUT AND GET THEIR LIBRARY BUILT. HE'S LIKE, I THINK I'M JUST GOING TO BE CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE
00:14:08SUPREME COURT AND THEN COMES IN AND JUST MAKES US NAP FOR ANOTHER TEN YEARS.
00:14:11THIS IS THE TAFT COURT, AND IT MAKES SENSE THAT THEY WOULD TAKE THIS CASE BECAUSE IT IS AN
00:14:14INTERESTING CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTION AND IT'S WHY THE COURT KIND OF EXISTS.
00:14:17THIS IS SETTLE THESE KINDS OF QUESTIONS. AND THE QUESTION IS, DOES THE
00:14:21FOURTH AMENDMENT JUST PROTECT PROPERTY AND LIKE TANGIBLE
00:14:24THINGS, THINGS THAT YOU CAN HOLD IN YOUR HAND WHERE IT WAS WHEN
00:14:26IT WAS WRITTEN IS THAT WHAT THIS IS FOR?
00:14:29LIKE A PERSON'S HOME OR OFFICE IS SOMETHING THAT'S IN TANGIBLE
00:14:33ALSO PROTECTED AGAINST CERTAIN
00:14:35SEARCHES OR WIRETAPS EXEMPT FROM THE FOURTH AMENDMENT WIRE
00:14:38REQUIREMENT BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT INVOLVING A PHYSICAL TRESPASS. THEY DIDN'T SEND A WIRE MAN INTO
00:14:42THIS GUY'S OFFICE. THEN JUST AT NIGHT IN LIKE A BLACK MASK WHERE EVERYONE WAS
00:14:45SLEEPING AND LIKE, YOU KNOW, PUT IN MICROPHONES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IT WASN'T LIKE THAT.
00:14:49IT WAS HUNG IT OUTSIDE A PHONE WIRE THAT WASN'T EVEN IN HIS HOUSE.
00:14:53OLMSTEAD, THE ATTORNEY, SAYS THAT THE POLICE ACQUIRED EVIDENCE IN HIS HOME WITHOUT A
00:14:58WARRANT, AND THEREFORE THIS IS AN ILLEGAL SEARCH UNDER THE FOURTH AMENDMENT.
00:15:01HE'S ASKING FOR A BROAD READING OF THE FOURTH AMENDMENT, WHAT WE CALL LOOSE CONSTRUCTION ISM, TO
00:15:05INCLUDE THE PROTECTION OF ALL ACTIVITIES THAT TAKE PLACE
00:15:08INSIDE THE HOME, INCLUDING TELEPHONE CALLS.
00:15:11OLMSTEAD BASICALLY SAYS, BECAUSE I MADE MY CALLS FROM MY HOME
00:15:14UNDER THE BELIEF THAT THEY WERE PRIVATE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENTS INTRUDED ON THAT PRIVACY.
00:15:18AND I HAD A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO BE PROTECTED FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND
00:15:22SEIZURES THAT DON'T HAVE A WARRANT. NOW, ARGUING THE OTHER SIDE, PROSECUTORS ARE LIKE, YEAH, WE
00:15:26COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU'RE SAYING.
00:15:28WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING INSIDE THIS GUY'S HOUSE.
00:15:31WE WENT OUTSIDE THIS GUY'S HOUSE. THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO FOURTH AMENDMENT PROBLEM HERE.
00:15:35WE DIDN'T MESS WITH ANYONE'S PERSONS HOUSES, PAPERS IN EFFECTS. WE INSTALL THE WIRETAP OUTSIDE
00:15:39OF THIS GUY'S HOME. WE NEVER PENETRATED THE SPACE.
00:15:43AND AGAIN, THE TEXT SAYS WHAT IT SAYS, AND IT DOESN'T SAY WHAT IT DOESN'T SAY.
00:15:46AND PERSONS, HOUSES, PAPERS AND EFFECTS. NONE OF THAT WAS INVOLVED IN
00:15:50WHAT WE DID. ACCORDING TO THE GOVERNMENT WIRETAPS, NOT A PHYSICAL
00:15:53TRESPASS, AND THEREFORE IT'S PERMISSIBLE WITHOUT A WARRANT. AND THERE'S NO FOURTH AMENDMENT
00:15:57VIOLATION THAT EXISTS. IT'S A TOUGH ONE, AND IT'S CLOSE
00:16:02TO FIVE FOUR DECISION. AND THE COURT DENIES OLMSTED'S
00:16:05APPEAL AND UPHOLDS A NARROW INTERPRETATION OF THE FOURTH
00:16:09AMENDMENT, BASICALLY SAYING THAT BECAUSE THERE WAS NO PENETRATION OF THE SPACE, PHYSICAL THINGS,
00:16:14THERE WAS NO SEARCHING, THERE WAS NO SEIZURE, SAYS THE CHIEF JUSTICE.
00:16:17EVIDENCE WAS SECURED ONLY BY THE USE OF SENSE OF HEARING AND THAT
00:16:19ONLY THERE WAS NO ENTRY OF THE HOUSES OR OFFICES OF THE DEFENDANTS.
00:16:23TAFT IS NOT UNSYMPATHETIC. HE'S NOT JUST LIKE, YOU KNOW,
00:16:27ENTIRELY UNTHINKING ON THIS MATTER. TAFT ACTUALLY THINKS THAT THERE
00:16:30SHOULD BE LAWS PROTECTED AGAINST THIS. HE FINDS WIRETAPPING TO BE VERY ALARMING.
00:16:34HE THINKS THAT IT'S INTRODUCING A NEW AGE OF THE POTENTIAL FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO INVADE
00:16:37PEOPLE'S PRIVACY, BUT TRAP TAFT IS ULTIMATELY A JUDICIAL
00:16:41CONSERVATIVE, WHICH MEANS HE BELIEVES THAT IT'S CONGRESS'S JOB TO PASS A LAW OR PASS A
00:16:45CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT OR UPDATE THE FOURTH AMENDMENT THAT THEY CAN'T JUST TAKE THE FOURTH
00:16:49AMENDMENT AND PROVIDE A BROADER READING THAT IF WIRETAPPING
00:16:52OFFENDED THE PUBLIC CONSCIOUS, THAT CONGRESS, THE PEOPLE'S BRANCH, SHOULD PASS A LAW
00:16:56INCLUDING NEW KINDS OF TECHNOLOGY, AND THAT SHOULD BE WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE, AND THEN
00:17:00THERE WOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE IN TERMS OF THE FOURTH AMENDMENT.
00:17:02NOW, THE SENATE IS PENNED BY ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS JUSTICES TO
00:17:05EVER SIT ON THE SUPREME COURT. NOW, LOOK, GETTING A JOB ON THE
00:17:09SUPREME COURT IS A REALLY BIG DEAL. I MEAN, IT'S THE FIRST BYLINE ON
00:17:11YOUR GRAVESTONE AND DEFINITELY THE FIRST THING ON YOUR OBITUARY.
00:17:15BUT THERE ARE A LOT THAT DON'T TEND TO LOOM LARGE IN AMERICAN HISTORY.
00:17:18SOME DO, SOME DON'T. JUSTICE BRANDEIS, WHO PENNED THE
00:17:22DISSENT, IS ONE OF THE ONES THAT TENDS TO LIVE ON. YOU'LL READ JUSTICE BRANDEIS IF
00:17:24YOU GO TO LAW SCHOOL. HE IS ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR
00:17:27SUPREME COURT JUSTICES, NOT JUST OF THE 20TH CENTURY.
00:17:30WHEN HE WAS ON THE COURT, BUT LARGELY IN THE HISTORY OF THE INSTITUTION.
00:17:33BRANDEIS BEFORE HE WAS ON THE COURT WHEN HE WAS A YOUNG RECENT LAW SCHOOL GRAD THAT JUST WENT
00:17:37INTO PRIVATE PRACTICE. HE WROTE A HARVARD LAW REVIEW CALLED THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY IN
00:17:40THE 1890S, WHICH IS ONE OF THE FIRST EVER MAJOR LEGAL TRACKS TO
00:17:44BE WRITTEN ABOUT PRIVACY. AND WHAT HE SAYS IN 1890 IS,
00:17:47YEAH, TECHNOLOGY'S GETTING CRAZY. AND LIKE YOU HAVE ALL THIS NEW
00:17:50PHOTOGRAPHS COMING OUT AND YOU HAVE LIKE DIFFERENT WAYS OF PRINTING THAT ARE GOING ON AND
00:17:53THAT THE LAW NEEDS TO KEEP PACE
00:17:56WITH TECHNOLOGICAL CHANGE AND NOW WE HAVE TO START LOOKING AT
00:17:59PRIVACY IS NOT JUST PRIVATE PROPERTY, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BIGGER THAT DEALS WITH
00:18:02WHAT HE CALLS INVIOLATE PERSONALITY. WHAT'S GOING ON INSIDE WITH
00:18:06PEOPLE. BRANDEIS NOW THAT HE'S ON THE COURT, STILL HAS THAT KIND OF
00:18:09ZEAL FOR PROTECTING AMERICAN PRIVACY. AND WHAT HE SAYS IS, WELL, THE
00:18:13FOUNDERS ABSOLUTELY WOULD HAVE WANTED THE FOURTH AMENDMENT TO COVER WIRETAPS THAT WE KNOW WHO
00:18:17THEY WERE. WE KNOW THEY'RE WRITING. THEY VERY MUCH WERE AFRAID OF THIS IDEA OF OVERT GOVERNMENT
00:18:21INTRUSION IN PEOPLE'S HOUSES. AND WIRETAPS DEFINITELY FALL
00:18:25INTO THAT PURVIEW. AND WHAT HE SAYS IS THAT THERE'S MORE FAR REACHING WAYS OF
00:18:27INVADING PRIVACY THAT HAVE BECOME AVAILABLE SINCE THE TIME
00:18:30OF MADISON WHEN HE'S WRITING THE FOURTH AMENDMENT. AND HE SAYS THAT DISCOVERY AND
00:18:34INVENTION AND MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR THE GOVERNMENT BY MEANS FAR
00:18:37MORE EFFECTIVE THAN STRETCHING ON THE RACK. YOU KNOW THAT IS BRANDEIS GETTING A LITTLE MELODRAMATIC
00:18:42HERE? THAT'S WHEN THEY LIKE MEDIEVAL TORTURE, ARE STRETCHING YOU OUT
00:18:44TO GET KIND OF LIKE A CONFESSION. SO WHAT HE'S SAYING IS A WIRETAP
00:18:47IS WORSE THAN THAT, WHICH I'M A PRIVACY ADVOCATE, BUT LET'S BE REAL.
00:18:51I'M NOT TRYING TO HANG ON THE RACK. SO TO OBTAIN DISCLOSURE IN COURT OF WHAT'S WHISPERED IN THE
00:18:55CLOSET, YOU HAD A FAMOUS QUOTE IN A DIFFERENT DECISION WHERE HE SAID, WHAT IS WHISPERED IN THE
00:18:59CLOSETS WILL BE SHOUTED FROM THE HOUSE TOPS THAT BASICALLY AMERICANS PRIVATE THOUGHTS,
00:19:03SENSATIONS AND THE THINGS THAT HAPPEN INSIDE THEIR HOMES
00:19:04BECAUSE OF MODERN TECHNOLOGY
00:19:07WOULD THEN BE BROADCAST AND AVAILABLE TO THE GOVERNMENT. AND THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THE
00:19:10FOURTH AMENDMENT, OF COURSE, WAS MEANT TO PROTECT, THAT THE
00:19:14CONSTITUTION, AS YOU SAID, AND A LOT OF TIMES IT'S NOT A MUNICIPAL CODE, IT'S A BLUEPRINT.
00:19:17IT'S ABOUT WHAT WERE THE FOUNDERS TRYING TO DO IN BROAD TERMS.
00:19:20AND HE BELIEVES ULTIMATELY THAT THE FOURTH AMENDMENT SHOULD BE
00:19:23CAPACIOUS ENOUGH TO DO THAT.
00:19:25WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, HE WAS DEAD RIGHT ABOUT TECHNOLOGICAL PROGRESS.
00:19:29THIS DISSENT REMAINS ONE OF THE MOST WIDELY READ TRACKS IN AMERICAN LEGAL HISTORY.
00:19:34GENERATIONS LATER, A VERY DIFFERENT SUPREME COURT, 40 YEARS LATER WILL ACTUALLY BORROW
00:19:38VERY HEAVILY FROM THIS. WHEN THEY DO EXTEND FOURTH AMENDMENT PROTECTIONS TO
00:19:42WIRETAPPING, WHEN THIS CASE IS OVERTURNED. A LITTLE SIDE NOTE, THE DECISION
00:19:45WAS ALSO REALLY UNPOPULAR IN A LOT OF INFLUENTIAL CIRCLES.
00:19:48THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DIDN'T REALLY LIKE THE IDEA OF WIRETAPS AND THE GOVERNMENT LISTENING TO
00:19:52THEIR PHONE. THEY ALSO A LOT OF THEM DIDN'T LOVE THE IDEA OF THE FOURTH
00:19:55AMENDMENT, NOT COVERING TELEPHONIC COMMUNICATIONS.
00:19:59SO YEARS LATER, FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT, FDR, WHEN HE'S PRESIDENT, ENDS UP PARDONING
00:20:02OLMSTEAD OLMSTEAD AFTER BEING RELEASED AS AN INTERESTING LIFE, HE GOES AROUND THEM BECOMING
00:20:06LIKE A PUBLIC LECTURER. HE GETS REALLY INTO CHRISTIAN SCIENCE.
00:20:10I KNOW IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THAT IS, WHICH IN THE 1930S WAS ABSOLUTELY HAVING A MOMENT IN AMERICAN PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS.
00:20:14HE BECAME ONE OF THE BIG LEADERS OF THAT MOVEMENT, A MASSIVELY
00:20:16POPULAR PUBLIC SPEAKER AND KIND OF VERY MUCH A MINOR TO MID
00:20:20LEVEL CELEBRITY IN HIS DAY, APART FROM THAT. BUT FDR PARDONED HIM
00:20:24NEVERTHELESS. THE FOURTH AMENDMENT REMAINS UNTOUCHED BECAUSE OF THIS DECISION.
00:20:27NOW, THE OLMSTED DECISION WAS NOT CURRENT LAW. IT WAS THEN.
00:20:31IT'S NOT NOW. THE CASE THAT ENDS UP BEING OVERTURNED 40 YEARS LATER IN THE
00:20:34CASE THAT IMPACTS YOUR WIFE WHEN IT COMES TO THIS STUFF IS KATZ
00:20:38VERSUS THE UNITED STATES.
00:20:40THIS TIME IT'S NOT A BOOTLEGGER. IT'S A BOOKMAKER. RICH. AND IF YOU KNOW WHAT A BOOKIE
00:20:44DOES, YOUR PHONE IS BASICALLY YOUR BOOKIE. NOW, BACK IN THE DAY, IF YOU
00:20:46WANTED TO BET SPORTS, WHETHER IT WAS SOUTH CAROLINA VERSUS THE TIME, WHICH YOU CAN'T DO IN
00:20:50ALABAMA, BUT YOU CAN IN OTHER STATES, IF YOU WANTED TO PLAY
00:20:52THE PONIES, IF YOU WANTED TO, WHATEVER. THERE WAS A GUY THAT WAS HANGING
00:20:56OUT IN A CORNER STORE OR A PIZZA SHOP OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHO'S KIND OF NEVER LEFT AND
00:21:00ALWAYS HAD A BUNCH OF FORMS IN FRONT OF HIM. AND YOU WENT DOWN AND YOU GOT TO
00:21:02LAY A BET. HE'S A BOOKMAKER IS BETTING ON
00:21:06SPORTS ILLEGAL KIND OF. YOU HAVE TO GO TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE GAMING LICENSES.
00:21:10YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY BET ON SPORTS IF YOU WANT TO BET YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH APPROPRIATE LEGAL CHANNELS AT THE STATE LEVEL.
00:21:14THING. THERE ARE GAMING BOARDS ALSO WHERE YOU ARE. YOU CAN'T JUST BE LIKE, I'M
00:21:17TAKING BETS, RIGHT? THAT'S AGAINST THE LAW. AND THAT'S WHAT CHARLIE KATZ IS DOING.
00:21:21SO IN A LEGAL BOOKMAKER AND THE FBI REALIZES THAT HE'S RUNNING A NATIONWIDE ILLEGAL GAMBLING
00:21:25OPERATION OUT OF LOS ANGELES, AGENTS FROM THE FEDERAL BUREAU
00:21:28OF INVESTIGATION REGULARLY. THERE'S AN ACTUAL PHOTO RAY. WE OBSERVE HIM USING A PUBLIC
00:21:33PAYPHONE. YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT A PAYPHONE IS? IT SEEMS LIKE MOVIES AND STUFF
00:21:37LIKE THAT, RIGHT? THE FEDS BELIEVE THAT HE'S USING ONE PAYPHONE IN PARTICULAR TO
00:21:41REALLY GAMBLING INFORMATION RELATING TO HIS BOOK.
00:21:45SO WITHOUT GETTING A WARRANT AND WITHOUT ENTERING THE PHONE
00:21:47BOOTH, THE AGENTS ATTACH A LISTENING DEVICE TO THE TOP OF
00:21:50THE BOOTH. THERE'S LIKE LITTLE AIR VENTS THAT ARE THERE, AND THEY PUT A
00:21:54LITTLE MICROPHONE ON TOP OF THE BOOTH SO THEY CAN HEAR WHAT'S GOING ON THERE, AND THEY START
00:21:58RECORDING KATZ'S CONVERSATION. OBVIOUSLY IT'S JUST ONE WAY. ALL YOU'RE GETTING IS WHAT KATZ
00:22:01IS SAYING BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T TAP THE LINE. BUT HE'S CALLING BOSTON AND HE'S CALLING MIAMI.
00:22:05AND ONCE THEY HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE, HE'S ARRESTED AND HE'S
00:22:08PROSECUTED FOR TRANSMITTING WAGERING INFORMATION VIA
00:22:10TELEPHONE OVER STATE LINES AND COORDINATING ILLEGAL MONEY
00:22:14OPERATIONS THROUGH GAMBLING ACROSS STATE LINES, WHICH IS
00:22:16ABSOLUTELY THE FBI'S PURVIEW. AND IT'S ABSOLUTELY A VIOLATION
00:22:20OF FEDERAL LAW. JUST LIKE OLMSTEAD, KATZ'S ATTORNEY BASICALLY SAYS.
00:22:23DID YOU GET A WARRANT? AND THEY'RE LIKE, WE DIDN'T NEED A WARRANT. HE'S LIKE, I THINK YOU NEEDED A
00:22:27WARRANT. AND SO THEY FILE AN APPEAL JUST LIKE OLMSTEAD ATTORNEY DID.
00:22:30AND THEY SAY HIS CONVICTION SHOULD BE OVERTURNED BECAUSE THE EVIDENCE AGAINST HIM IS GATHERED
00:22:34IN AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL MANNER. BASICALLY, THERE'S NO WARRANT.
00:22:37AGAIN, IN 1967, THE CASE BECOMES BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT.
00:22:41AND THERE ARE TWO DISTINCT ARGUMENTS.
00:22:43KATZ'S LAWYERS REALLY OBSESS OVER THE PHONE BOOTH AND THEY'RE LIKE, LOOK, WE GET THAT THE
00:22:47PHONE BOOTH IS A PUBLIC AREA,
00:22:50BUT ONCE IT'S USED BY SOMEONE
00:22:52AND A CLIENT, IT BECOMES A PRIVATE SPACE.
00:22:56AND THAT IS A CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED AREA BECAUSE WE'RE
00:22:59TALKING ABOUT PERSONAL THINGS. ESSENTIALLY. THEY SAID A PHONE BOOTH IS A
00:23:02CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED AREA, JUST LIKE A HOME OR AN OFFICE.
00:23:06AND THE COURTS IN OLMSTEAD WERE LIKE, YEAH, THIS ISN'T THE CASE. AND THEY SAID, RIGHT.
00:23:09AND WE THINK OLMSTEAD WAS DECIDED WRONG AND SHOULD BE OVERTURNED. IT WAS FIVE FOUR.
00:23:12JUSTICE BRANDEIS WROTE THIS EXCELLENT DISSENT ABOUT WHY THIS
00:23:16IS A PROBLEM AND WE BELIEVE THIS CONVICTION SHOULD BE OVERTURNED. THEY SAID A PERSON'S PRIVATE
00:23:20CONVERSATIONS SHOULD REMAIN PRIVATE. WHEREVER YOU ARE, UNLESS PROPER
00:23:22PROCEDURE IS FOLLOWED, INCLUDING
00:23:24THE USE OF A SEARCH WARRANT.
00:23:28THE PROSECUTION SAID, YEAH, THIS ISN'T TRUE. A COUPLE OF THINGS.
00:23:31ONE, IT'S A PHONE BOOTH. IT'S A PUBLIC PHONE BOOTH. SO THE FACT THAT YOU'RE SAYING
00:23:35THIS IS A CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED AREA MAKES NO SENSE TO
00:23:36US TO THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN
00:23:40DECIDED. OLMSTEAD VERSUS US. I'M SORRY TO INTO YOUR HOMEWORK, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE
00:23:44SUPREME COURT WEIGHED IN ON THIS. WE WERE FOLLOWING PROCEDURE BASED ON EXISTING LAW, THE
00:23:47EXISTING LAW SAID THAT UNLESS IT WAS PERSONS, HOUSES, PAPERS AND
00:23:51EFFECTS, WE DON'T NEED A WARRANT. SO WE DIDN'T GET A WARRANT. WE DON'T FEEL LIKE WE DID ANYTHING WRONG.
00:23:55SO THERE'S THIS CONSTANT KIND OF DISCUSSION OVER WHETHER A PHONE BOOTH IS A CONSTITUTIONAL
00:23:58PROTECTED AREA. SHOULD IT OR SHOULDN'T IT? AND THAT'S ALSO KIND OF WEIRD.
00:24:02AS SOMEONE WHO WAS THERE, I WILL SAY THAT PHONE BOOTH DID HAVE A
00:24:04CERTAIN PRIVACY EXPECTATION. I WASN'T THERE WITH THE KATZ.
00:24:07I MEAN, THERE WHEN PHONE BOOTHS WERE A THING. IF YOU WERE ON THE PHONE BOOTH AND SOMEONE WANTED TO USE IT
00:24:11AFTER YOU, THEY DIDN'T JUST LIKE STAND NEXT TO YOU, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SEEN AS WEIRD AND YOU WOULD
00:24:15HAVE BEEN WITHIN YOUR RIGHTS TO BE LIKE, CAN YOU BACK OFF FOR A SECOND?
00:24:18RIGHT? OR YOU WOULD HAVE TURNED THE PHONE AWAY. YOU COULD GESTURE, YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, FLIP YOUR COIN.
00:24:22YOU CAN KIND OF LIKE SHOW THEM THAT YOU'RE IMPATIENT, BUT YOU'RE ALSO EXPECTED TO STAY A COUPLE OF ARM'S LENGTH AWAY FROM
00:24:26PEOPLE. SOMEONE STANDING NEXT TO YOU ON THE PHONE WOULD BE THE SAME
00:24:29THING AS SOMEONE OUTSIDE STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO YOU WHEN YOU'RE ON YOUR PHONE RIGHT.
00:24:32IF YOU'RE HAVING LIKE A PHONE CONVERSATION THAT SAID IT'S NOT YOUR PHONE, RIGHT?
00:24:35LIKE YOU'RE OUT IN PUBLIC, PEOPLE CAN SEE YOU. IT'S A BIG GLASS BOX.
00:24:39THAT'S EVEN IF YOU'RE LUCKY ENOUGH TO GET THE BOX, LIKE A LOT OF THEM ARE JUST ON A POLE SOMEWHERE AND YOU'RE STANDING
00:24:42OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET EXPOSED TO THE ELEMENTS. SO EVERYBODY IS LIKE, IS A PHONE
00:24:46OR CONVERSE CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTED AREA, IS IT NOT?
00:24:48AND EVENTUALLY THE COURTS LIKE, OH MY GOD, SHUT UP ABOUT PHONES.
00:24:52THEY'RE LIKE, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT PHONES. WE'RE NOT DOING THIS AT ALL.
00:24:547 TO 1 VOTE, THE COURT OVERTURNS HOMESTEADS, PRECEDENTS AND
00:24:58KATZ'S CONVICTION ALONG WITH IT. AND WHAT JUSTICE POTTER STEWART
00:25:01SAYS IN THIS VERY, VERY FAMOUS LINE IS THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO
00:25:04HAVE A DEBATE OVER WHETHER OR NOT A PAY PHONE IS A CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED AREA.
00:25:08THAT'S NOT THE THING THAT'S IMPORTANT HERE. STOP FOCUSING ON PHONES.
00:25:10STEWART SAID THAT THE FOURTH AMENDMENT WAS MEANT TO PROTECT, QUOTE, PEOPLE, NOT PLACES.
00:25:16AGAIN, THE SUPREME COURT, IN A71 RULING, SAYS THE FOURTH AMENDMENT. AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHEN YOU
00:25:20WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON, IT WAS MEANT TO, QUOTE,
00:25:22PROTECT PEOPLE, NOT PLACES. AND THAT AS LONG AS AN AMERICAN
00:25:25HAS, QUOTE, A REASONABLE
00:25:27EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY, YOU'RE
00:25:30COVERED BY THE FOURTH AMENDMENT. WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE THESE DETAILS AND THESE CONSTANTLY
00:25:34LIKE LONG ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHAT QUALIFIES, WHAT DOESN'T QUALIFY IF YOU HAVE A REASONABLE
00:25:40EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY, YOU'RE PROTECTED BY THE FOURTH AMENDMENT. AND IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT LAW
00:25:43ENFORCEMENT CAN'T GET IN YOUR FACE, BUT IT DOES MEAN THAT THEY NEED A WARRANT IF THEY'RE GOING
00:25:47TO SEARCH YOUR THINGS THAT YOU REGARD AS PRIVATE AND THAT WE AS
00:25:50SOCIETY AGREE IS PRIVATE. THEY DIDN'T GET A WARRANT. THEY DIDN'T HAVE A RIGHT TO INVADE HIS PRIVACY.
00:25:54AND THEREFORE, OLMSTEAD DECISIONS OVERTURNED.
00:25:57NOW, THE FOUNDERS DID SAY THAT THE POLICE SHOULDN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE THOSE KIND OF
00:26:01DECISIONS ON THEIR OWN, THAT IF YOU WANT TO INVADE THE PRIVACY
00:26:03OF AMERICANS, JUST SPEAK TO A JUDGE, A LEGAL EXPERT, IF THEY AGREE THAT THERE'S PROBABLE
00:26:08CAUSE, YOU CAN JUST GET AFTER IT. AND THAT'S THE THING WITH OLMSTEAD AND WITH KATZ, BOTH OF
00:26:11THEM WERE GUILTY IN THE SENSE THAT BOTH OF THEM WERE COMMITTING THESE CRIMES.
00:26:15OLMSTEAD IS ABSOLUTELY A BOOTLEGGER. CHARLIE KATZ IS ABSOLUTELY A BOOKIE. AND THE PROBABLE CAUSE THAT THEY
00:26:19HAD WERE STANDARD LAW ENFORCEMENT THAT WORK. THESE CASES WERE REALLY GOOD AT THEIR JOBS.
00:26:22THEY CHANGED EVIDENCE. THEY'VE FOUND COORDINATED, YOU KNOW, SOPHISTICATED OPERATIONS.
00:26:26AND THEN THEY BROUGHT THEM TO TRIAL. THEY JUST DIDN'T GET A WARRANT. FIRST.
00:26:29IF THEY WENT TO THE JUDGES, THEY WOULD HAVE GOT IT. THIS WASN'T SOME KIND OF 1984
00:26:33CABLE SITUATION. I MEAN, THESE ARE COPS DOING THEIR JOBS AND DOING IT WELL.
00:26:37BUT THIS IDEA OF MAKING SURE YOU GO TO A JUDGE IS IMPORTANT.
00:26:39AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT EVEN IN THESE CASES, SUPREME COURT NOW
00:26:42HAS BEEN EMPHATIC ABOUT. THIS CREATES WHAT PRIVACY
00:26:46SCHOLARS I'M A PRIVACY PROFESSIONAL CALLED THE GOLDEN RULE. AND THIS IS THE CURRENT PRIVACY
00:26:50LAW THAT YOU'RE SUBJECTED TO RIGHT NOW.
00:26:53IF YOU THINK YOUR PRIVACY HAS BEEN INVADED AND YOU FILE A
00:26:57COMPLAINT, THE JUDGE OR WHOEVER
00:26:59IS ADJUDICATING THE CASE WILL FIRST JUST ASK, DID YOU HAVE A
00:27:03REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY? IF THE ANSWER IS YES, THEN, HEY,
00:27:06MAYBE YOU MAKE A LITTLE MONEY OR MAYBE SOMEONE GOES TO JAIL.
00:27:10IF YOU DIDN'T, THEN YOU DON'T.
00:27:12AND THIS IS THE COMMON STANDARD
00:27:14OF NOW AMERICAN PRIVACY LAW. AND YOU SEE HOW IT ALIGNS WITH
00:27:18THE FOURTH AMENDMENT, BECAUSE THE FOURTH AMENDMENT DOESN'T PROTECT YOU FROM SEARCHES AND SEIZURES.
00:27:21IT PROTECTS YOU FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND SEIZURES.
00:27:24SO DO YOU SEE HOW THIS IS STILL ALIGNED WITH THE LANGUAGE OF THE FOURTH AMENDMENT WHEN YOU HAVE A
00:27:28REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF
00:27:30PRIVACY, THEN A WARRANT IS NEEDED BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT IS ALLOWED TO PENETRATE YOUR
00:27:35PRIVATE SPACE. AND IT SEEMS SIMPLE ENOUGH.
00:27:37BUT IS IT WAS THAT WORD EVEN MEAN, REASONABLE?
00:27:41GIVE ME A SHOW OF HANDS. IF YOU DO YOU THINK THIS IS A REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF
00:27:45PRIVACY? IF YOU SEND AN EMAIL FROM YOUR UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA ACCOUNT
00:27:47AND YOU'RE CONNECTED TO THE UNIVERSITY WI FI, DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE A REASONABLE
00:27:51EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY? HANDS UP IF YOU THINK YOU DO.
00:27:55YOU DON'T SEEM CONVINCED, RIGHT? IT'S NOT YOUR ACCOUNT. IT'S NOT YOUR WI FI.
00:27:59IT'S A PROFESSIONAL WORK KIND OF THING. RIGHT? MOST PEOPLE, I WOULD SAY IN AMERICA WOULD SAY YOU DIDN'T
00:28:03HAVE A REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY. AT THE UNIVERSITY, YOU END UP GETTING IN TROUBLE BY THE
00:28:06UNIVERSITY FOR SOMETHING YOU EMAILED AND YOU'RE LIKE, HEY, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE LOOKED AT MY EMAILS.
00:28:10I FEEL LIKE THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD THE RIGHT TO LOOK AT THEIR. MOST PEOPLE WOULDN'T GO FOR THAT.
00:28:14WHAT IF YOU WERE ON YOUR CELL
00:28:16PHONE ON CELL DATA? YOU'RE NOT USING UNIVERSITY WI
00:28:19FI ON YOUR GMAIL AND YOU SEND AN EMAIL AND THE UNIVERSITY TRIES
00:28:22TO GET ACCESS TO RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE A REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY.
00:28:26EVERYONE AGREES THIS IS EASY. PRIVACY LAW IS SUPER SIMPLE. ALL RIGHT.
00:28:29IT'S YOUR PHONE. IT'S YOUR GMAIL.
00:28:31YOU'RE CONNECTED TO UNIVERSITY, WI FI, EDU ROOM. DO YOU HAVE A REASONABLE
00:28:35EXPECTATION? PRIVACY? NOT WHAT YOU WANT.
00:28:38WHAT DO YOU THINK? THE LAW AND A REASONABLE STANDARD RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU
00:28:42THINK YOU DO. BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T. YEAH, IT'S KIND OF 5050, RIGHT?
00:28:45THIS IS THE SLIPPERY SLOPE OF PRIVACY LAW. IF ANY OF YOU INTERESTED IN THIS
00:28:49KIND OF FIELD, LIKE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, IT'S ABOUT ESTABLISHING WHAT'S A REASONABLE EXPECTATION.
00:28:53AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHO'S GOING TO ESTABLISH WHAT'S REASONABLE?
00:28:56WE ARE AS A CIVILIZATION LIKE AS A PEOPLE, RIGHT?
00:28:59LIKE AS A SOCIETY, WE'RE ALL GOING TO BASICALLY DECIDE
00:29:02WHETHER OR NOT SOMETHING IS REASONABLE. AND I PROMISE, LIKE A REASONABLE, YOU KNOW, INTERNET
00:29:06GENERATION, WHAT'S REASONABLE IN TERMS OF PRIVACY TO US IS VERY,
00:29:09VERY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOUR GRANDPARENTS THOUGHT WHEN THEY WERE YOUR AGE.
00:29:12STANDARDS CHANGE CULTURAL NORMS CHANGE. WE GO THROUGH BIG MOMENTS.
00:29:15IF ANYTHING, THINGS ARE CHANGING FASTER THAN THEY EVER HAD IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THIS NATION. RIGHT?
00:29:19STANDARDS AND NORMS. NOT EVEN JUST INTERGENERATIONALLY, BUT WITHIN
00:29:21THE GENERATION YOU HAVE LIKE TEARS, ELDERS AND BABIES AND
00:29:25THINGS LIKE THAT. RIGHT? WITHIN THE GENERATIONS THAT EXIST.
00:29:28SO KNOWING WHAT NOW, NOW, AS OPPOSED TO WHAT'S THERE BEFORE
00:29:31ISN'T EASY. IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S RELIED ON IN CASE LAW. IT'S ABOUT CHECKING OUT STANDARDS.
00:29:36BUT WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS THAT IF THE FOURTH AMENDMENT IS
00:29:40BASED AROUND THIS IDEA OF A REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF
00:29:44PRIVACY AND WHAT'S REASONABLE KEEPS CHANGING AND EVOLVING. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE FOURTH
00:29:48AMENDMENT KEEPS CHANGING AND EVOLVING, THAT IT'S CONSTANTLY
00:29:50SHAPED AND ADAPTED TO THE KIND OF MODERN STANDARDS AT A TIME. I WANT TO UNPACK THIS FOR A
00:29:57MOMENT. BECAUSE I'M A BIG FAN OF THE FOURTH AMENDMENT, AND I THINK
00:30:00IT'S GREAT, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY NOT CLEAR CUT IN THE SAME WAY. UNREASONABLE ISN'T EITHER.
00:30:04TAKE YOUR PHONES OUT.
00:30:09REGINA, YOU'RE ON SNAPCHAT.
00:30:11I READ OPEN UP YOUR SNAP.
00:30:18OPEN UP MY EYES. ONLY.
00:30:22AND I WANT YOU TO SWAP PHONES WITH THE PERSON BEHIND YOU FOR
00:30:25FIVE MINUTES.
00:30:36IF YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG, YOU SHOULD HAVE NOTHING
00:30:39TO HIDE RIGHT.
00:30:42WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
00:30:44OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING NONE OF YOU DID IT.
00:30:48NOT EVEN ONE ANGEL AMONG YOU. NO ONES WITH, LIKE NOTHING IN IT.
00:30:52OR. RIGHT. LIKE, YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE, SOME FRIENDS. YOU HAVE NEVER HAVE A BROWSING
00:30:56HISTORY, EVER. AND YOU'RE LIKE, REALLY? YOU NEVER GO ON THE INTERNET.
00:30:58YOU NEVER IF YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG, YOU HAVE NOTHING
00:31:02TO HIDE. RIGHT. WHY DO WE HAVE A FOURTH AMENDMENT TO BEGIN WITH? YEAH, OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU STUDY
00:31:05THE CONSTITUTIONAL HISTORY, THE FACT THAT THE BRITISH WERE
00:31:07KICKING DOWN DOORS DURING OUR REVOLUTIONARY PERIOD REALLY IS SOMETHING THAT BURNED BRIGHT
00:31:11WITH THE FOUNDERS. RIGHT. AND THIS IDEA OF A COLONIAL OR
00:31:13MAGISTERIAL REDCOATS COMING IN AND INVADING THE PRIVACY OF, YOU
00:31:16KNOW, THE GOOD PATRIOTS LIKE I GET THAT THAT THAT'S WHAT'S THERE. BUT ALSO LIKE LET'S LOOK AT IT
00:31:20FROM A PRO LAW ENFORCEMENT STANDPOINT, RIGHT? IF YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG, YOU SHOULD HAVE NOTHING
00:31:24TO HIDE BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE TRYING TO KILL AMERICANS, WHETHER IT'S
00:31:27INTERNALLY THROUGH VIOLENT CRIME, WHETHER IT'S INTERNATIONALLY, THROUGH THE
00:31:30MANY ENEMIES THAT WE HAVE WHO 20 YEARS AGO, IF WE PLANES INTO BUILDINGS AND ARE STILL ACTIVELY
00:31:34TRYING TO KILL. RIGHT. LIKE THE THREAT IS REAL, THE WORLD IS DANGEROUS.
00:31:39AMERICANS ARE TARGETED. IF YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE. RIGHT.
00:31:43OR YOU HAVE AN EMBARRASSING PHOTO. COME ON. WE'RE TRYING TO STOP TERROR.
00:31:46AND WHENEVER RESPONSIVENESS.
00:31:49VERIZON, IF YOU'VE HEARD THIS
00:31:51BEFORE, THIS IS A VERY OLD ARGUMENT.
00:31:54PEOPLE IN POWER HAVE BEEN USING THIS SINCE THE TIME OF THE CAESARS OR BEFORE THE TIME OF
00:31:58THE CAESARS. REALLY. AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, IT'S
00:32:02CALLED THE NOTHING, THE HIGH TRAP THAT WE CALL THIS IN THE PRIVACY COMMUNITY. AND IT'S REALLY, REALLY, REALLY
00:32:05EFFECTIVE, PARTICULARLY IF YOU'RE IN CHARGE OF SOMETHING AND YOU HAVE POWER OVER OTHER PEOPLE.
00:32:08BECAUSE LET'S DISSECT IT FROM A LANGUAGE PERSPECTIVE OFF THE
00:32:12BAT, AGGRESSIVE RIGHT OUT THE GATE. JUST US, RIGHT?
00:32:15SOMETHING'S UP WITH YOU RIGHT? I NEED TO SEE YOUR DEVICE.
00:32:17AND YOU'RE LIKE, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M GOING TO SHOW IT TO YOU RIGHT NOW. THE MORE YOU TRY TO ASSERT YOUR
00:32:21OWN RIGHT TO PRIVACY, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
00:32:24YOU LOOK MORE SUSPICIOUS, RIGHT? SO YOU SEE, IT'S LIKE QUICKSAND,
00:32:29WHICH IS THE THING THAT AS A CHILD I THOUGHT WOULD HAVE A LARGER IMPACT ON MY ADULT LIFE. BUT LIKE, IT'S THIS THING WHERE
00:32:33ULTIMATELY YOU HAVE THIS
00:32:36SELF-DEFENSE THAT JUST MAKES YOU SEEM MORE GUILTY. AND EVENTUALLY THEY'RE JUST LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT? I WAS KIND OF HALF KIDDING WHEN
00:32:40WE ORIGINALLY TALK, BUT NOW I'M REALLY WORRIED. SO I'M GOING TO NEED TO SEE YOUR PHONE RIGHT NOW. OTHERWISE, WE'RE GOING HAVE A
00:32:44SERIOUS PROBLEM. NOW, THIS IS HARD TO DEFEND YOURSELF FROM AND SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN HAPPENING FOR A
00:32:48REALLY LONG TIME NOW, THE WAY YOU GET OUT OF THE TRAP IS ACTUALLY PRETTY EASY.
00:32:51THIS IS WHAT'S CALLED THE LOGICAL FALLACY. BRACE YOURSELVES.
00:32:54AND WE KNOW THE LOGICAL FALLACY IS RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU EVER HEARD THE TERM.
00:32:58YEAH, YOU CAN LEARN IT FROM WEIGHT LOSS IF YOU WANT TO ONE OR TAKING ANYTHING IN TERMS OF
00:33:02LOGIC LOGICAL FALLACY MEANS THAT WHILE IT MAY LOOK LEGIT ON THE
00:33:05SURFACE, WHEN YOU START OPINING, WHEN YOU START DISSECTING THE
00:33:09UNDERPINNING LOGIC, IT REALLY DOESN'T REALLY HOLD UP TO SCRUTINY.
00:33:12LOOK AT THE STATEMENT AGAIN. IF YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG AND YOU HAVE NOTHING TO
00:33:16HIDE IS REALLY JUST A WAY OF
00:33:16SAYING ALL SECRETS ARE BAD.
00:33:22ALL SECRETS ARE SIMPLE, ALL
00:33:24SECRETS ARE NEFARIOUS, RIGHT? THAT ONLY BAD PEOPLE KEEP
00:33:28SECRETS. AND SO OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU HAVE A SECRET, THEN THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG.
00:33:32AND IS A BAD OR AN EVIL OR A SIN THAT NEEDS TO BE UNCOVERED. IS THAT TRUE?
00:33:35NO, NOT ALL SECRETS ARE BAD, AND NOT ALL SECRETS ARE BAD AT ALL. THERE'S A LOT THAT'S GOING ON.
00:33:39SECRETS ARE ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO NAVIGATING MODERN SOCIETY.
00:33:42NOW, THE LAW, FOR STARTERS, GIVES YOU SOME BASIC ONES.
00:33:46DOCTOR. LAWYER. I'M SORRY, DOCTOR PATIENT CONFIDENTIALITY.
00:33:50ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE. THESE ARE TWO THINGS THAT OUR SOCIETY ACTUALLY GIVES LEGAL
00:33:54PROTECTIONS BEHIND THOSE SECRETS BECAUSE IT'S A REALLY, REALLY GOOD THING FOR PUBLIC HEALTH. IF YOU'RE HONEST ABOUT YOUR
00:33:59DOCTOR, YOUR DOCTOR, I PROMISE YOU, LIKE IF THEY'RE DOCTORS,
00:34:02LIKE YOU DO DRUGS AND YOU SHOULD BE DON'T LIE TO YOUR DOCTOR. HE OR SHE IS TRYING TO HELP YOU
00:34:06OUT. IT'S THE SAME THING WITH YOUR LAWYER. THEY'RE TRYING TO WORK THINGS OUT. THEY NEED TO CREATE A SPACE
00:34:10LEGALLY WHERE YOU CAN BE HONEST AND OPEN. SO ONE, YOU GET BETTER TREATMENT
00:34:14AND THEN THE PUBLIC AT LARGE ENDS UP GETTING BETTER TREATMENT. BUT THAT'S KIND OF EASY.
00:34:17LOW HANGING FRUIT, DOCTORS, LAWYERS. BUT THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER THINGS.
00:34:20IF WE ARE GOING TO CALL OUR RIGHT, THEIR PRIVACY, OUR DESIRE FOR PRIVACY, THE ABILITY TO
00:34:24LIMIT ACCESS TO YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION, WE LIMITING ACCESS
00:34:28TO YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION ALLOWS YOU TO PROTECT YOUR
00:34:31REPUTATION AND ALLOWS YOU TO SHAPE HOW YOU'RE PERCEIVED BY OTHERS AND SECRETS ARE
00:34:35ABSOLUTELY A NECESSARY PART OF NAVIGATING MODERN SOCIETY.
00:34:38JOB APPLICATIONS AND CAREER MOVES. A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE APPLY FOR
00:34:41JOBS BEFORE THEY'RE READY TO LEAVE. THE OTHER ONE THAT THEY'RE AT, AND IF SOMEONE GETS FOUND OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT, IT CAN
00:34:45CREATE A VERY NON-STRATEGIC, DESTRUCTIVE ELEMENT FOR YOU.
00:34:49FINANCIAL INFORMATION AND CREDIT INFORMATION RELATIONSHIP
00:34:52STRUGGLES, PERSONAL, COMPLEX POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS BELIEFS AND CERTAIN CONTACTS.
00:34:55PERSONAL HEALTH CONCERNS THAT AREN'T CRIMINAL OR STIGMATIZE CREATIVE WORK, EARLY IDEAS,
00:35:00INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY IN PROGRESS. WRITERS, ARTISTS.
00:35:03INNOVATORS IN AMERICAN BUSINESS. BEING ABLE TO KEEP SOMETHING SECRET BEFORE THEY BRING IT TO
00:35:07MARKET. SECRETS ARE ABSOLUTELY A WONDERFUL THING. ARE THERE BAD SECRETS?
00:35:11OF COURSE THERE ARE. EITHER ADULTERERS AND DRUG DEALERS AND PEOPLE WHO LIE IN A
00:35:15WAY THAT HURTS OTHER PEOPLE AND IS DETRIMENTAL TO OUR SOCIETY.
00:35:18OF COURSE THERE ARE, BUT A LOT OF THE SECRETS THAT WE HAVE
00:35:22AREN'T NECESSARILY THAT SECRETS ALSO CREATE SPACE FOR INTIMACY. THINK ABOUT THE BEST FIRST DATE
00:35:26YOU'VE EVER BEEN ON YOUR ENTIRE LIFE. YOU MEET SOMEONE, YOU'RE LOOKING
00:35:29AT THEM, THEY'RE LOOKING AT YOU, YOU START CONNECTING. AND ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS YOU
00:35:31MIGHT DO IS GIVE A PIECE OF PERSONAL INFORMATION, RIGHT?
00:35:35AND IF THEY MAYBE GIVE YOU A PIECE OF PERSONAL INFORMATION BACK, IT'S KIND OF CURRENCY. IT ESTABLISHES BONDS AND
00:35:41INTIMACY. SAME THING YOU HAVE WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY. THOSE BONDS, THAT INTIMACY, IT'S
00:35:45MAYBE THE BEST PART ABOUT BEING ALIVE. WAKE UP FROM A DEATH BED PERSPECTIVE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT
00:35:48WHAT MATTERS, YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO STAND THERE AND BE LIKE, THANK GOD I WAS ABLE TO GET ALL THAT STUFF RIGHT.
00:35:52LIKE, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S GOING TO BE THOSE RELATIONSHIPS. THOSE INTIMACY IS RIGHT AND YOUR SECRETS ARE KIND OF THE BUILDING
00:35:56BLOCK OF THAT. NOW, I DON'T REALLY THINK MADISON'S TALKING ABOUT THIS,
00:35:59WHERE HE'S JUST LIKE, WELL, YOU KNOW, YOUR ABILITY TO SHAPE YOUR EVERYTHING. THEY CARED ABOUT THEIR
00:36:03REPUTATION, BUT THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT ON THE FOUNDERS MIND. THAT'S WHAT'S NOT GOING ON IN THE FOURTH AMENDMENT.
00:36:06RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU EVER HAD GEORGE ORWELL, THE NATION OF
00:36:11OCEANA, IF YOU REMEMBER, IS A SPRAWLING SUPERPOWER. IT'S KNOWN THROUGHOUT THE WORLD
00:36:15FOR ITS ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY. WITHIN ITS BORDERS, IS A VAST
00:36:18NETWORK OF TELLY SCREENS. THESE ARE SUPER FLATS TABLETS. THEY WORK LIKE DOUBLE MIRRORS
00:36:22INSTALLED IN EVERY HOME AND ON EVERY STREET TO RECORD THE MOVEMENTS AND THE INTERACTIONS
00:36:25OF ALL THE CITIZENS. NOTHING ESCAPES THE EYES OF THE SCREENS.
00:36:28THE GOVERNMENT HAD A MINISTRY OF PEACE AND THEY PROMISED THAT THE SCREENS WERE THERE. WHY?
00:36:32WELL, FOR SAFETY, OBVIOUSLY. RIGHT. TO KEEP YOU SAFE, TO PREVENT BAD
00:36:36THINGS FROM HAPPENING. BUT AS TIME PASSED, ANYONE WHO CRITICIZED THE GOVERNMENT
00:36:39DECISION OR WHISPERED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF POLITICAL CHANGE
00:36:42IS EITHER ARRESTED OR MYSTERIOUSLY DISAPPEARS.
00:36:44NOW, THE TRUE POWER THAT ALWAYS SCREENS ISN'T NECESSARILY IN
00:36:47WHAT THEY SEE, BUT IN THE KNOWLEDGE THAT THEY WERE THERE,
00:36:50THAT THEY WERE ALWAYS WATCHING THE LIVELY DISCUSSIONS IN CAFES AND BARS AND MARKETS THAT
00:36:55DWINDLES AND EVENTUALLY GROWS SILENT. PASSIONATE DEBATES OVER DINNER TABLES CEASES.
00:36:58AND IN THE CITY, EVERY EVENING IS FILLED WITH PEOPLE WHO HAD NOTHING NEW TO SAY, REALIZING
00:37:02THAT THEIR INNERMOST THOUGHTS COULD BE TURNED AGAINST THEM. THE CITIZENS OF OCEANA START
00:37:06GUARDING THEIR MINDS AND SUPPRESS ANY IDEA THAT MIGHT BE SEEN AS DISSENT.
00:37:10AND THIS CONSTANT SURVEILLANCE LEADS TO A CULTURE OF
00:37:12SELF-CENSORSHIP WHERE PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO KIND OF VOICE THEIR
00:37:16OPINIONS OR TO ASSEMBLE FOR ANY REAL CAUSE.
00:37:18THIS IS THE WISDOM OF GEORGE ORWELL'S 1984.
00:37:21IT'S WHY EVERY DEMOCRACY IN THE WORLD HAS LAWS ON THE BOOKS TO
00:37:24PROTECT CITIZENS FROM OVERLY
00:37:26INVASIVE GOVERNMENT SNOOPING. OUR STRONGEST BULWARK AGAINST
00:37:29THAT IS THE FOURTH AMENDMENT. THAT'S THE SHIELD. THAT'S THE PROTECTION THAT OUR
00:37:33FOUNDERS ESTABLISHED TO PROTECT THIS KIND OF LIBERTY.
00:37:36BECAUSE THE BOOK IS FICTIONAL. IT WAS WRITTEN IN 1948, PUBLISHED IN 1949.
00:37:39BUT BIG BROTHER IS NOT FICTIONAL. BIG BROTHER IS VERY REAL.
00:37:43AND THE TECHNOLOGY THAT ROBERT WAS TALKING ABOUT DIDN'T EXIST AT THE TIME, BUT IT ABSOLUTELY
00:37:47DOES NOW. THE WORD SURVEILLANCE IS GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE.
00:37:50IT'S BINARY IN NATURE. NO BINARY MEANS. IT MEANS TWO THINGS AT ONCE. THAT IS ONE OF THE HALLMARKS OF
00:37:54THE INTELLIGENCE TO BE ABLE TO HOLD TWO CONTRADICTORY IDEAS IN
00:37:57YOUR HEAD AT THE SAME TIME AND NAVIGATE THEM.
00:38:01THINK OF THIS AS A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD ON ONE SENSE SURVEILLANCE
00:38:03TO SURVEIL OUR GOVERNMENT WATCHES US TO KEEP US SAFE.
00:38:07AND THAT'S NOT UNLIKE HOW PARENTS WATCH OVER THEIR CHILDREN AND MAKE A MISTAKE.
00:38:11WE NEED TO BE WATCHED TO BE KEPT SAFE BECAUSE WE HAVE VERY REAL ENEMIES.
00:38:15AGAIN, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. WHETHER VIOLENT CRIME OR TERRORISM OR THE FULL SPECTRUM
00:38:19OF HARM THAT CAN COME TO US AND THE ONES THAT WE LOVE AND THE NEED FOR CRIMINAL JUSTICE.
00:38:23GOVERNMENTS SURVEILLANCE ABSOLUTELY HELP SAVE AMERICAN LIVES.
00:38:27WE ARE GOING FOR IT'S NOT LIKE ON TV YOU HAVE A SHOOTING AT NIGHT. THERE'S NO ONE AROUND.
00:38:31THERE'S A BODY ON THE FLOOR. THERE'S A CAR THAT DROVE AWAY. NO WITNESSES.
00:38:34AND YOU HAVE TO TELL THAT PERSON'S FAMILIES ARE NO WITNESSES. I GOT NOTHING.
00:38:37OR IS THERE A CCTV CAMERA ON THE STREET THAT MAYBE GOT A LICENSE
00:38:40PLATE THAT GIVES YOU ALL WE KNOW HOW THESE THINGS TO HAPPEN, RIGHT? IT'S A VERY REAL THING, VERY
00:38:43REAL, ACTIONABLE REALITY. AND THESE THINGS ARE THERE.
00:38:46AND AGAIN, I'M SAYING THIS IS A FOURTH AMENDMENT SCHOLAR. AS A WORKING PRIVACY PROFESSIONAL, NOT ALL GOVERNMENT
00:38:50SURVEILLANCE IS EVIL AND IT ABSOLUTELY HELPS SAVES LIVES.
00:38:52BUT LIKE PARENTS, GOVERNMENTS ALSO WATCH US TO ENFORCE THEIR
00:38:56RULES AND TO MAINTAIN THEIR AUTHORITY. AND SO SORT OF GOVERNMENT
00:39:00SURVEILLANCE IS ABOUT TWO THINGS. IT'S ABOUT PROTECTION, BUT IT'S ABSOLUTE WHAT WE ALSO ABOUT POWER.
00:39:04THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF SURVEILLANCE OVER SURVEILLANCE
00:39:07AND COVERT SURVEILLANCE, OVERT SURVEILLANCE IS THE EYES THAT WE
00:39:10CAN SEE.
00:39:20WHEN PEOPLE KNOW THEY'RE BEING WATCHED. IT CREATES WITH PSYCHOLOGY IS CALLED A CHILLING EFFECT.
00:39:24INDIVIDUALS TOO OFTEN FEEL AS THOUGH THEY CAN'T ACT FREELY AS THEY MIGHT UNDER NORMAL
00:39:27CIRCUMSTANCES, WHICH CAN NEGATIVELY IMPACT THEIR SENSE OF
00:39:30WELL-BEING, THEIR CREATIVITY AND THEIR INDIVIDUALITY.
00:39:34LOOK, ANOTHER WAY OF NONACADEMIC. WE SAYING IT IS KIND OF LIKE
00:39:36BEING WATCHED ALL THE TIME WHEN YOU KNOW YOU'RE BEING WATCHED
00:39:39WILL BLUNT YOUR SHARP EDGES. IT FOSTERS MONOTONY, IT FOSTERS
00:39:43CONFORMITY, AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO NECESSARILY, NOTHING TO DO.
00:39:46BUT IT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAVE TO DO WITH POWER. DO YOU GUYS DRIVE ON THE
00:39:50INTERSTATE AND JUST ROCK OUT? DO I JUST TURN UP A MUSIC AND
00:39:53JUST LIKE YOU ARE BLASTING HILARIOUSLY SO, LIKE YOUR
00:39:56FAVORITE SONG NOW, IF YOU STOP AT A RED, WHITE AND SOMEONE
00:39:58PULLS THE NEXT TO YOU TO TURN IT ON A LITTLE BIT, KIND OF QUIET.
00:40:01SO CAN YOU SEE A LITTLE BIT WHY CAN YOU JUST LET YOUR FLAG FLY? RIGHT?
00:40:05WE JUST GET OUT THERE, RIGHT? YOU KNOW, THE MUSIC'S IN YOUR HEART. LIFE IS SHORT.
00:40:08SING, SING WITH PASSION, WITH VIGOR. DRUM DEEP FROM THE CUP OF LIFE.
00:40:11NO, BECAUSE IT'S WEIRD, RIGHT? AND EVERYONE ELSE IS GOING TO THINK IT'S WEIRD TO. AND IS IT WEIRD?
00:40:15WELL, WHAT'S WEIRD? WHATEVER WAS SOCIALLY CONDITIONED TO BE WEIRD. BUT YOU SHOULDN'T BE ASHAMED OF
00:40:18THE FACT THAT YOU FIND THAT. NO, NOW I'M GOING TO KEEP IT WHEN BEING WATCHED.
00:40:22TAKE A PSYCHOLOGY CLASS WHEN PEOPLE KNOW THEY'RE BEING WATCHED. THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED THE
00:40:26HAWTHORNE EFFECT. THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT WORDS FOR IT. WHEN PEOPLE IN EXPERIMENTS KNOW THEY'RE BEING WATCHED, THEY
00:40:29CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR. YOU WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND YOU'RE BEING FILMED, IF YOU'RE GIVING A
00:40:33LECTURE, RIGHT, LIKE OBVIOUSLY THERE'S SOMETHING THAT CONSTANTLY RIGHT NOW AS I'M BEING FILMED, THAT I'M
00:40:37EXPERIENCING OR THAT I'M FEELING. AND I'M WONDERING IF THIS IS THE TRUEST REPRESENTATION OF MYSELF AND WHAT ARE THE RIGHT BUT LIKE
00:40:41IT'S THEIR RIGHT AND IT FOSTERS A CERTAIN DEGREE OF MONOTONY.
00:40:44AND THIS IS HOW IT'S OUR INDIVIDUALISM AND THIS IS A PROBLEM FOR AMERICANS BECAUSE
00:40:47INDIVIDUALISM IS A BIG PART OF WHO WE ARE BECAUSE A CULTURE, YOU KNOW, AND WHETHER YOU'RE
00:40:51LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE, RED TEAM, BLUE TEAM, EXTREME MODERATE IN THE MIDDLE, IT'S BEEN LIKE THIS FOR HUNDREDS OF
00:40:55YEARS. PART OF NATIONAL CULTURES HAVE DIFFERENT KIND OF ASPECTS AND US
00:40:58BEING INDIVIDUALISTIC IS, YOU KNOW, AT ONCE OUR GREATEST
00:41:01STRENGTH AND MAYBE OUR GREATEST WEAKNESS. BUT IT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY
00:41:04WE'RE SUCH A POWERHOUSE OF A NATION. IT'S A BIG PART OF OUR NATURAL CULTURE.
00:41:08WE ARE INDIVIDUALS. WE BELIEVE IN INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.
00:41:10AND WHEN TAKEN TO FOR OVERT SURVEILLANCE, CAN KILL
00:41:14INDIVIDUALISM, FREE EXPRESSION AND UNDERMINE THE INTEGRITY OF OUR DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS.
00:41:18IT MAKES PEOPLE LESS WILLING TO PARTICIPATE IN POLITICAL MOVEMENTS THAT PUSH AGAINST THE
00:41:22STATUS QUO BY INSTILLING A SENSE OF FEAR THAT THEY MIGHT BE
00:41:24PENALIZED OR EVEN ARRESTED FOR ACTING IN A WAY THAT THE POWERFUL FIND VERY THREATENING.
00:41:28AND AGAIN, THIS IS TRUE FOR LIBERALS, AS IT IS FOR CONSERVATIVES, GREAT LIBERAL AND
00:41:32CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENTS, BOTH USUALLY STARTED AS NASCENT
00:41:36TERMS, AS OUTSIDERS, AS THINGS THAT PEOPLE WERE CRITICIZING. AND THEN AS THEY DEVELOP TIME
00:41:40AND POPULARITY AND WERE ABLE TO GERMINATE AND GROW, THEY WERE ABLE TO THEN THRIVE AND BECOME
00:41:43AN ACTIVE PART OF THE FULL SPECTRUM OF WHAT IS OUR AMERICAN CONVERSATION AND THE DEBATES
00:41:47THAT OUR POLITICIANS HAVE IN OUR SOCIETY HAVE.
00:41:49AND OUR CULTURE HAS THOSE THINGS
00:41:53NEED INDIVIDUALISM AND A KIND OF
00:41:55FREEDOM FROM OVERT SCHILLING IN ORDER TO THRIVE.
00:41:58IT ALSO INHIBITS THE RIGHT OF FREEDOM TO ASSEMBLE. YOU HAVE GUARANTEED IN THE FIRST
00:42:01AMENDMENT, AND THIS ISN'T SOME PROFESSIONAL TOWER, IVORY TOWER, ACADEMIC THEORY.
00:42:05WE SEE THIS ALL OVER THE WORLD FROM SURVEILLANCE SOCIETIES.
00:42:08WE SEE IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN FROM NATIONS RIGHT NOW ON PLANET
00:42:11EARTH THAT DON'T HAVE STRONG PROTECTIONS AGAINST
00:42:14SURVEILLANCE, DON'T HAVE STRONG PROTECTIONS FOR AMERICAN CONCEPTIONS OF LIBERTY AND
00:42:18PRIVACY. YOU STEP OUT OF LINE POLITICALLY IN A LOT OF PLACES.
00:42:20YOU GET ARRESTED, JUST LIKE OUR FOUNDERS DID WHEN THEY WERE PROTESTING THE ENGLISH PRIOR TO
00:42:24OUR REVOLUTION. COVERT SURVEILLANCE IS THE EYES THAT WE CAN'T SEE.
00:42:27AND WHEN PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THEY'RE BEING WATCHED, THE POTENTIAL FOR OUR GOVERNMENT TO
00:42:30SUPPRESS DISSENT AND NEUTRALIZE POLITICAL OPPOSITION IS NEARLY
00:42:34LIMITLESS. THANKFULLY, WE DO HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL.
00:42:37THE ORWELLIAN IMAGES OF HIGH TECH GOVERNMENT ACTORS WATCHING OUR EVERY MOVE.
00:42:41THAT'S NO LONGER THE STUFF OF FICTION.
00:42:43WE CAN SEE PRETTY CLEARLY WHAT THE FUTURE IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE
00:42:46IF THESE PRACTICES ARE LEFT UNCHECKED. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
00:42:50SURVEILLANCE SOCIETIES THAT EXIST RIGHT NOW IN OUR PLANET, WHICH DON'T HAVE THE KINDS OF
00:42:53FOURTH AMENDMENT PROTECTIONS THAT WE HAVE, WE SEE A LOT OF TROUBLING THINGS IF YOU'RE
00:42:57UNHAMPERED BY THINGS LIKE CONSTITUTIONS OR PRIVACY LAWS, SOME GOVERNMENTS CAN USE AI
00:43:01POWERED FACIAL RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY, INTERNET CENSORSHIP,
00:43:04SOCIAL CREDIT SCORES, DATA MINING TO MONITOR THE ACTIVITIES
00:43:07OF ALMOST EVERY CITIZEN FROM THEIR ONLINE BEHAVIOR TO PHONE
00:43:10CALLS TO PHYSICAL MOVEMENTS. AND THIS SURVEILLANCE IT TARGETS
00:43:13AND PUNISHES INDIVIDUALS WHO EXPRESS POLITICAL DISSENT OR
00:43:16ENGAGE IN ACTIVITIES THAT ARE DEEMED TO INDIVIDUALISTIC OR
00:43:19DISLOYAL TO THE GOVERNMENT.
00:43:21THE CHILLING EFFECT ON POLITICAL EXPRESSION AND POLITICAL
00:43:25OPPOSITION HAS BEEN DEVASTATING IN A LOT OF PLACES, AND IT
00:43:28FURTHER ERODE CIVIL LIBERTIES AND HUMAN RIGHTS IN A LOT OF
00:43:32ANCIENT AND BEAUTIFUL SOCIETIES,
00:43:36DISAVOW. LET'S THINK ABOUT THE INTERNET. THINK ABOUT WHAT YOUR PHONE DOES, SHOPPING HABITS, BROWSER
00:43:40HISTORIES, HOW MUCH TIME YOU SPEND PLAYING VIDEO GAMES, WHETHER EATING, DRINKING, HOW MUCH YOU'RE SMOKING, WHAT YOU'RE
00:43:45EATING, WHO YOU'RE DRINKING AND SMOKING WITH. IT'S NOT JUST STRAIGHT TO JAIL.
00:43:48AND AGAIN, IT'S NOT LIKE ORWELL. YOU JUST GET DISAPPEARED.
00:43:50IT'S THINGS LIKE STEP OUT OF LINE AND SUDDENLY YOUR DEBIT
00:43:54CARDS DON'T WORK FOR A WEEK. WE'LL SEE HOW YOU LIKE THAT AND FALL IN LINE. YOUR INTERNET GETS THROTTLED FOR
00:43:58A MONTH. MAYBE YOUR KIDS SUDDENLY GET DISQUALIFIED FROM CERTAIN SCHOOLS OR JOBS.
00:44:01AN ALERT WILL POP UP IN THE TAXI. YOU JUST GOT INTO TELLING THE
00:44:04DRIVER THAT THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE YOU PAST A CERTAIN DISTANCE BECAUSE YOUR TRAVEL HAS
00:44:07BEEN RESTRICTED IN SOME CASES. I SWEAR I HAVE TO LOOK IT UP.
00:44:11THEY'LL TAKE AWAY YOUR DOG. UM, THERE WAS LIKE, ARE THE
00:44:15FICTION IS ABSOLUTELY REALITY.
00:44:19THE TECHNOLOGY IS HERE. THE STRUCTURES ARE IN PLACE IF USED IMPROPERLY BY AN AMBITIOUS
00:44:23TYRANT, THAT PERSON WOULD BE ABLE TO MANIPULATE AND UNDERMINE
00:44:25THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES OF OUR REPUBLIC. WE'RE A NATION THAT RELIES ON
00:44:29THE FREE FLOW OF INFORMATION AND THE ABILITY OF INDIVIDUALS TO
00:44:31MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS AND IF YOU IMITATE THAT, WE'RE DONE FOR
00:44:34OUR LAWS, OUR VOTES, OUR COLLECTIVE VIGILANCE ARE THE ONLY THING STANDING BETWEEN US
00:44:38AND AN AUTOCRATIC FUTURE. IT IS VERY MUCH THE INTENTION OF
00:44:42THE FOUNDERS THAT AMERICANS WATCHED THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
00:44:46WATCHING US WITH UNWAVERING PERSISTENCE.
00:44:48THIS IS ABSOLUTELY THE SPIRIT OF OUR CONSTITUTION AND THE SPIRIT
00:44:52BEHIND OUR FOURTH AMENDMENT. WHAT YOU WILL WANT TO AVOID IS
00:44:56THIS THINKING THAT DEALS IN FALSE TRADE OFFS.
00:45:00ANYONE WHO STARTS SPEAKING IN ZERO SUM TERMS, WELL, YOU CAN HAVE PRIVACY OR YOU CAN HAVE
00:45:03SAFETY, BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH. NOW, THAT'S NOT TRUE.
00:45:05WELL, YOU CAN HAVE CCTVS OR YOU CAN HAVE CRIMINALS RUN FREE, PICK WHICH ONE YOU WANT.
00:45:09THAT'S NOT REALLY TRUE. THERE ARE A LOT OF THIRD PATHS THAT PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO
00:45:13NAVIGATE, ESPECIALLY WITH MODERN TECHNOLOGY WHERE YOU CAN DEMAND AS AN AMERICAN YOUR RIGHT TO PRIVACY AND LIBERTY.
00:45:18WHILE ALSO DEMANDING THAT YOUR LEADERS KEEP YOU SAFE FROM HARM
00:45:22AND ANYONE EVER HEARD OF SHOTSPOTTER TECHNOLOGY IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT.
00:45:25SO CCTV CAMERAS CAN BE ON ALL THE TIME WATCHING PEOPLE IN WAYS
00:45:29THAT ARE OBJECTIONABLE. ALSO CATCH CRIMES OR THEY CAN BE
00:45:32OFF AND THEN THERE'S NO WATCHING. THERE IS A THIRD PATH. THEY HAVE THEM DOWN IN
00:45:36MONTGOMERY. THEY HAVE AND A LOT OF OTHER PLACES. THEY'LL ATTACH MICROPHONES TO THE END OF CCTV CAMERAS, THOSE
00:45:41MICROPHONES WILL BE SPECIALLY TAILORED TO PICK UP THE FREQUENCY OF GUNSHOTS.
00:45:44SO WHAT HAPPENS IS THE CAMERAS OFF AND THEN IF GUNSHOTS
00:45:47REGISTER ON THE MICROPHONE, THE CAMERA SWITCHES ON, YOU GET IT.
00:45:50OR IF A CRIME HAS BEEN RECORDED IN A CERTAIN AREA, SOMEONE CALLS 911.
00:45:53HEY, I SAW THIS. I SAW SOMEONE BEING ATTACKED. YOU KNOW, I SAW SOMEONE BEING TACKLED TO THE GROUND.
00:45:57AND IMMEDIATELY THEN YOU CAN SWITCH ON THE CAMERAS. GIVEN A CERTAIN AREA, YOU SEE
00:46:00HOW THAT IS THREADING A NEEDLE WHERE YOU CAN HAVE THE BENEFITS. BUT THESE THINGS, WHILE ALSO NOT JUST DEALING WITH, YOU KNOW,
00:46:04CAMERAS BEING ON ALL THE TIME IN SOME ORWELLIAN SENSE.
00:46:07THIS IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF A THOUSAND OF THINGS THAT PRIVACY PROFESSIONALS DO.
00:46:11WHAT PRIVACY LAW TRIES TO DEAL
00:46:13WITH ZERO SUM THINKING PEOPLE WHO TALK TO THAT ARE USUALLY
00:46:16LYING OR TRYING TO SELL YOU SOMETHING. YOU CAN EITHER HAVE PRIVACY OR YOU CAN HAVE NO, NO, YOU'RE AMERICANS.
00:46:21BE GREEDY. EXPECT YOUR CAKE AND HAVE IT TO YOU. ABSOLUTELY.
00:46:24GET TO HAVE LIBERTY AND PRIVACY AND ALL OF THE THINGS THAT YOU WERE GIVEN BY THE FOUNDING
00:46:28FATHERS THROUGH THE CONSTITUTION AND THE RIGHTS THAT THEY RECOGNIZE, WHILE AT THE SAME
00:46:31TIME EXPECTING ROBUST PUBLIC SAFETY MEASURES. WHAT WE NEED TO ASK LEADERS IS
00:46:36TO ENSURE THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO DO BOTH AT ONCE AND THAT THEY SHOULD COME UP WITH THIRD PATH
00:46:40AND THIRD SOLUTIONS. AND YOU CAN REMIND THEM THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY REALLY WENT AROUND FOR A LONG TIME
00:46:43CONVINCING PEOPLE THAT THEY SHOULD BE IN CHARGE BEFORE THEY GOT ELECTED. AND SO IT'S NOT TOO HARD OF A
00:46:47TASK. ZERO SUM THINKING BINARY THINKING, NOT BINARY THING, ZERO
00:46:50SUM THINKING, BLACK AND WHITE, THINKING ABOUT THESE ISSUES. THAT'S UN-AMERICAN.
00:46:56ALL PRIVACY ALL THE TIME. NO, IT'S NOT REALISTIC. YOU KIDDING ME? WE'RE GOING TO GO LIVE IN A CAVE
00:47:00AND LIKE, I LIKE MY LAPTOP. I LIKE MY PHONE. I LIKE MY CREDIT CARDS. I DO THIS FOR A LIVING.
00:47:03I'M NOT GETTING RID OF MY DEVICES. AT THE SAME TIME, I'M ALSO NOT
00:47:06WEARING LIKE THE TINFOIL WITH THE THINK RIGHT ON MY HEAD.
00:47:09LIKE, THAT'S THAT'S NOT FEASIBLE IN THE 21ST CENTURY. OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO
00:47:13SACRIFICE CERTAIN PRIVACY. BUT THIS IDEA THAT YOU SACRIFICE
00:47:16ALL OF YOUR PRIVACY, ALL OF YOUR PROTECTIONS THAT COME IN THE FOURTH AMENDMENT AND THEN THE
00:47:19LARGER SPIRIT OF THE FOURTH AMENDMENT, SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN A WONDROUS TECHNOLOGICAL GOLDEN AGE.
00:47:23WELL, THAT'S NOT TRUE EITHER.
00:47:25THERE ARE THIRD PATHS AND THAT'S LARGELY THE CHALLENGE OF THE
00:47:2921ST CENTURY. HOW DO WE ENJOY THE BENEFITS OF THESE THINGS?
00:47:31THE INCREASED SAFETY, THE INCREASED CONVENIENCE, THE INCREASED INNOVATION, WHILE ALSO
00:47:36ENSURING THAT WE DON'T FALL AFOUL.
00:47:40OF THE SPIRIT OF THE FOURTH AMENDMENT AND WHAT OUR FOUNDERS
00:47:42INTENDED US TO HAVE.
00:47:46THE NEXT CLASS WE'RE DEALING WITH. CARPENTER VERSUS THE US.
00:47:49THIS IS A CLASS SPECIFICALLY THAT DEALS WITH CELL SITE LOCATION INFORMATION AND THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOUR
00:47:54PHONE IS ALWAYS PINGING. IT'S A TERM LIKE A CELL TOWER,
00:47:57AND THAT THOSE RECORDS JUST EXIST KIND OF IN PERPETUITY.
00:48:00AND I CAN I CAN'T. BUT LIKE, IF YOU HAD ACCESS TO
00:48:03IT, YOU CAN BACKTRACK. ANYWAY, WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHETHER THAT'S LEGAL AND
00:48:06WHETHER THAT REQUIRES A WARRANT. CARPENTER IS A REALLY
00:48:08COMPLICATED CASE THAT DEALS WITH SOMETHING CALLED THIRD PARTY DOCTRINE, WHICH IS WHY I DIDN'T
00:48:12SET UP TIME FOR IT TODAY. BUT OTHERWISE WE'LL DEAL WITH THAT. YOU HAVE ASSIGNED READINGS.
00:48:15THANK YOU.
00:48:25WATCH AMERICA'S BOOK CLUB,
00:48:27C-SPAN'S BOLD ORIGINAL SERIES
00:48:29SUNDAY WITH OUR GUEST, NATIONAL
00:48:31JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR LOIS ROMANO.
00:48:34HER BESTSELLING BOOK ON MARY TODD LINCOLN, AN INCONVENIENT
00:48:38WIDOW REVEALS THE LIFE OF A FIRST LADY WHO NAVIGATED PERSONAL TURMOIL AND PUBLIC
00:48:43SCRUTINY DURING ONE OF THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL MOMENTS IN U.S. HISTORY.
00:48:46LOIS ROMANO SERVED AS AN EDITOR
00:48:49COLUMNIST AND REPORTER FOR THE WASHINGTON POST AND POLITICO AND
00:48:52IS BEST KNOWN FOR HER IN-DEPTH
00:48:54COVERAGE OF AMERICAN POLITICAL CULTURE.
00:48:57SHE JOINS OUR HOST, RENOWNED AUTHOR AND CIVIC LEADER DAVID
00:49:00RUBENSTEIN AT THE HISTORIC FORD'S THEATER IN WASHINGTON, DC.
00:49:04FOR A LIVELY DISCUSSION ON THE LEGACY AND MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT
00:49:07MARY TODD LINCOLN AND THE PRESIDENCY OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN.
00:49:10YOU DECIDED TO WRITE A BOOK ON
00:49:13MARY TODD LINCOLN, ABRAHAM LINCOLN'S ONLY WIFE.
00:49:17AND WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO WRITE A BOOK, AND WHAT WAS YOUR
00:49:21CONCERN ABOUT HER REPUTATION THAT LED YOU TO WRITE THIS BOOK,
00:49:24HER BIOGRAPHY WAS NOT WELL ROUNDED.
00:49:28THAT SHE WAS JUDGED BY SOME OF HER FLAWS, AND NO ONE SHOULD BE
00:49:31JUDGED BY ONLY HER FLAWS.
00:49:33AND FROM THE BEGINNING I FELT
00:49:36MUCH COMPASSION.
00:49:38AND BY THE END, I JUST FELT SO DEEPLY FOR HER.
00:49:42SHE, DURING THE COURSE OF HER LIFE, SHE LOST THREE CHILDREN
00:49:46BEFORE HER 18 AND HER HUSBAND WAS SHOT IN FRONT OF HER, AND
00:49:49SHE LOST HER MOTHER AT SIX. AND SHE WENT THROUGH A CIVIL
00:49:53WAR. AND HALF OF HER FAMILY ACTUALLY MORE THAN HALF OF HER FAMILY WAS
00:49:56FIGHTING FOR THE CONFEDERACY.
00:49:58AND SHE SHE RECEIVED NO SYMPATHY
00:50:02OR EMPATHY FROM ANYONE. WATCH AMERICA'S BOOK CLUB WITH
00:50:05LOIS ROMANO SUNDAY AT 6 P.M. AND
00:50:089 P.M. EASTERN AND PACIFIC, ONLY
00:50:10ON C-SPAN.
00:50:25C-SPAN IS AS UNBIASED AS YOU CAN GET.
00:50:28YOU ARE SO FAIR. I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY CAN SAY OTHERWISE.
00:50:32YOU GUYS DO THE MOST IMPORTANT WORK FOR EVERYONE IN THIS
00:50:36COUNTRY. I LOVE C-SPAN BECAUSE I GET TO HEAR ALL THE VOICES.
00:50:39YOU BRING THESE DIVERGENT VIEWPOINTS AND YOU PRESENT BOTH
00:50:43SIDES OF AN ISSUE AND YOU ALLOW PEOPLE TO MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS.
00:50:46ABSOLUTELY. LAST C-SPAN. I LOVE TO HEAR BOTH SIDES.
00:50:49I'VE WATCHED YOU SAY THAT EVERY MORNING. AND IT IS UNBIASED.
00:50:53AND YOU BRING IN FACTUAL
00:50:55INFORMATION FOR THE CALLERS TO UNDERSTAND