Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00, WHICH WAS JUST HORRIBLE.
00:00:00>> WAS VIETNAM THE HARDEST PART
00:00:05TO WRITE? >> IT WAS TOUGH.
00:00:15I'M WRITING IT NOW.
00:00:23AND IT IS VERY, REALLY DEPRESSING.
00:00:25>> PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING
00:00:29BEST-SELLING BIOGRAPHER ROBERT CARO SUNDAY NIGHT AT 8:00 P.M. EASTERN ON C-SPAN'S Q&A.
00:00:35LISTEN ON OUR FREE C-SPAN NOW APP OR WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS.
00:00:39♪
00:00:39>> THE ROAD TO THE CAPITOL RUNS
00:00:44THROUGH AMERICA'S BATTLEGROUND STATES AND C-SPAN IS THERE.
00:00:48OUR CAMERAS ARE ON THE GROUND FOLLOWING THE CAMPAIGNS WHERE
00:00:51THE TOUGHEST RACES WILL DECIDE THE BALANCE OF POWER IN CONGRESS.
00:00:54WE ARE THE ONLY NATIONAL TELEVISION NETWORK PROVIDING
00:00:57THIS LEVEL OF UNFILTERED ACCESS
00:00:59TO THE CANDIDATES, THE VOTERS,
00:01:01AND THE ISSUES SHAPING CAMPAIGN 2026.
00:01:06NO PARTISAN SPIN, THE ROAD TO THE CAPITOL ONLY ON C-SPAN.
00:01:10>> I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE TO
00:01:12YOU STEPHEN BOURQUE, A PROFESSOR
00:01:15EMERITUS AT THE U.S. ARMY COMMAND AND GENERAL STAFF COLLEGE.
00:01:19HE RETIRED FROM THE U.S. ARMY IN
00:01:221992 AFTER 20 YEARS OF ENLISTED AND COMMISSION SERVICE, WITH
00:01:26DUTY STATIONS IN THE UNITED STATES, GERMANY, AND THE MIDDLE EAST.
00:01:30AFTER EARNING A PHD AT GEORGIA
00:01:30STATE UNIVERSITY, HE TAUGHT
00:01:35AMERICAN AND EUROPEAN HISTORY AT SEVERAL COLLEGES AND
00:01:38UNIVERSITIES INCLUDING GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY, CAL STATE
00:01:42NORTHRIDGE AND THE UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS.
00:01:46HE ALSO TAUGHT TACTICS AND OPERATION ART AT COMMAND AND GENERAL STAFF COLLEGE AT FORT
00:01:51LEAVENWORTH, KANSAS, AND STRATEGY AND JOINT MARITIME
00:01:55OPERATIONS AT THE NAVAL WAR COLLEGE SEMINAR PROGRAM IN CALIFORNIA.
00:02:00HE HAS LED OVER 28 TOURS AND STAFF RIDES TO BATTLEFIELDS IN
00:02:03THE UNITED STATES, FRANCE, AND GERMANY.
00:02:08HIS BOOKS INCLUDE "JAYHAWK,"
00:02:14FROM 2002, HIS BOOK FROM 2007
00:02:19WHICH WE WILL TALK ABOUT TODAY
00:02:22AND "BE ON THE BEACH." HE WAS
00:02:25AWARDED THE 2020 GRAND PRIZE FOR
00:02:27AVIATION LITERATURE FOR HIS
00:02:29FRENCH TRANSLATION IN 2019.
00:02:38HIS MOST RECENT BOOK, "TOEBBE"
00:02:44WAS PUBLISHED RECENTLY IN 2024
00:02:46AND IT WAS AWARDED THE 2024 ARMY
00:02:50HISTORICAL FOUNDATION WRITING AWARD FOR BIOGRAPHY.
00:02:53HIS EDITED ADDITION OF THE WAR
00:02:56DIARY COVERING MARCH 1944 THE
00:03:01JANUARY 1945 AND WE ARE EXCITED
00:03:05AND WAITING FOR THAT TO BE DELIVERED TO US.
00:03:07PLEASE JOIN ME IN WELCOMING HIM.
00:03:11[APPLAUSE] DR. BOURQUE: YOU ARE AWESOME.
00:03:20CAN YOU GUYS HEAR ME?
00:03:26I'M ALL WIRED, I'M AFRAID I'M GOING TO STEP ON SOMETHING.
00:03:30THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
00:03:32WELCOMING ME AND FOR HELPING
00:03:35MAKE THIS WHAT A PLEASURE TO BE
00:03:40AT THIS AMAZING FACILITY. THROUGHOUT MUCH OF JANUARY AND
00:03:45EARLY FEBRUARY 1991 SOLDIERS AND MARINES WAITED ANXIOUSLY WITH
00:03:48ALLIED FORCES ATTACKING THE ARMY
00:03:52IN KUWAIT AND SOUTHERN IRAQ.
00:03:55DESPITE DROPPING UNPRECEDENTED AMOUNTS OF PRECISION MUNITIONS
00:03:58ON IRAQI UNITS, NOTHING HAD CHANGED.
00:04:06SINCE EARLY AUGUST 1990 ONE IRAQ'S REPUBLICAN GUARD ATTACKED KUWAIT.
00:04:11IT HAD BECOME SOMEWHAT WORSE AS
00:04:13SADDAM HUSSEIN'S REGULAR FORCES
00:04:16AND BEGAN DIGGING IN.
00:04:17ACROSS SAUDI ARABIA'S NORTHERN
00:04:22PORTION, TRENCHES, MINES, AND
00:04:23BATTLE POSITIONS DARED THE ALLIES TO ATTACK.
00:04:28THE MASSIVE AIR OPERATION HAD
00:04:29DONE LITTLE BUT HARASS THE DOG
00:04:34IN INFANTRY. THE REPUBLICAN GUARD,
00:04:36ESSENTIALLY UNDAMAGED, AND NOW RELOCATED FAR BEHIND THE
00:04:39DEFENSIVE LINES PREPARED TO
00:04:41CONFRONT ANY COALITION ATTACK,
00:04:47NOT ONE UNIT HAD WITHDRAWN FROM THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY AS A RESULT OF THE MOST MASSIVE
00:04:52BOMBARDMENT SINCE INDOCHINA TWO DECADES EARLIER.
00:04:56IT WAS OBVIOUS TO PRESIDENT BUSH AND HIS COMMANDERS THEY NEED TO SEND IN GROUND TROOPS.
00:05:01THEY WANTED IRAQ OUT OF KUWAIT.
00:05:04AS A TEXAS HISTORIAN NOTED IN
00:05:07HIS LANDMARK STUDY OF KOREAN WAR, YOU MAY FLY OVERLAND
00:05:10FOREVER, BOMBING, PULVERIZER,
00:05:13AND WIPE IT CLEAN OF LIFE, BUT
00:05:15IF YOU DESIRED TO DEFEND IT AND
00:05:18KEEP IT FOR CIVILIZATION, YOU MUST DO THIS ON THE GROUND.
00:05:21THE WAY THE ROMAN LEGIONS DID BY PUTTING YOUR YOUNG MEN INTO THE MUD.
00:05:25IN THIS CASE IT WOULD BE THE SAME.
00:05:29A FEW HOURS AFTER DAWN FEBRUARY
00:05:3124, 1991, ARTILLERYMAN OPEN FIRE
00:05:35AND THE RIGHT FLANK, THE FIRST
00:05:39MARINE EXPEDITIONARY FORCE CONSISTING OF THE FIRST AND
00:05:43SECOND MARINE DIVISIONS AND THE FIRST BRIGADE, SECOND ARMED
00:05:46DIVISION ATTACKED THE PRIMARY IRAQI DEFENSES AND BEGIN MOVING
00:05:50TOWARD KUWAIT CITY. FAR TO THE WEST, THE 18TH CORPS
00:05:54HEADED NORTH FOR THE EUPHRATES RIVER TO SECURE THE LEFT FLANK.
00:06:00THIS WAS AN INTERESTING COMBINATION OF THE 24TH MECHANIZED INFANTRY DIVISION,
00:06:06THE 101ST AIRMOBILE, THE TRUCKMOUNTED PARATROOPERS OF THE
00:06:0882ND AIRBORNE, AND THE FRENCH
00:06:11SIXTH LIGHT ARMOR DIVISION. MOST OF THE SOLDIERS HAD BEEN
00:06:15SITTING IN THE DESERT SINCE AUGUST AND EAGER TO GET ON WITH THE ATTACK.
00:06:22THE SEVENTH CORPS WAS THE MOST POWERFUL ARMORED FORCE AMERICA
00:06:26EVER ASSEMBLED.
00:06:31WITH APOLOGIES TO GENERAL PATTON.
00:06:37THE FIRST MECHANIZED INFANTRY, THE ARMOR DIVISION WERE READY TO MOVE.
00:06:44THE CORE ATTACKED, PENETRATED.
00:06:55THEY RACED TO JOIN THE ATTACK.
00:07:00DESPITE THE ALLIES HAVING COMPLETE CONTROL OF THE AIR.
00:07:07THEY DID NOT KNOW WHERE THE REPUBLICAN GUARD WAS.
00:07:10DESPITE THE AIR CAMPAIGN, THE
00:07:13BEST IRAQI UNITS WERE MOVING
00:07:17TOWARD THE AMERICANS FINDING
00:07:26THEM WAS THE CAVALRY JOB.
00:07:30ONE OF THE NIGHT OF 26, 27 OF
00:07:36FEBRUARY, HE FOUND THEM.
00:07:43THE FIRST INFANTRY AND THIRD ARMED DIVISIONS PASSED THROUGH
00:07:47SPENDING ALL NIGHT BATTLING THE DUGGAN MECHANIZED.
00:07:51THE FIGHTING WAS INTENSE AS
00:07:55AMERICANS ENCOUNTERED FIERCE BUT INAPT RESISTANCE.
00:07:59IRAQI SOLDIERS SIMPLY COULD NOT HIT WHAT THEY AIMED AT.
00:08:04IN CONTRAST, THE AMERICAN SELDOM MISSED.
00:08:07BY DAWN, THE BEST UNIT IN THE
00:08:08IRAQI ARMY HAD CEASED TO EXIST.
00:08:13VERY FEW OF ITS SOLDIERS ENDED
00:08:15UP IN P.O.W. CAGES, MOST
00:08:20PERISHED IN THE BATTLE. THE FIRST ARMORED DIVISION HAD
00:08:23ONLY A MINOR ROLE IN THE BATTLE AND CONTINUED ADVANCING EAST.
00:08:26SHORTLY AFTERNOON WITH THREE
00:08:30BRIGADES ONLINE, THE DIVISION
00:08:34APPROACH A LOW RIDGE TO MARK KLEIN ON THE OPERATIONAL MAPS.
00:08:40ALMOST INSTANTLY THE THERMAL SITES ILLUMINATED WITH THE SIGNATURE OF HUNDREDS OF ENEMY
00:08:44TANKS. SEVERAL KILOMETERS AWAY, THE
00:08:46DUGGAN MEDINA DIVISION WAS AWAITING THE ADVANCING
00:08:50AMERICANS, BUT THEY NEVER HAD A CHANCE.
00:08:53IN LESS THAN 30 MINUTES, THIS ONCE PROUD DIVISION WAS A KEEP A
00:08:57BURNING METAL AS TANKS,
00:09:00BRADLEY'S WITH TOW MISSILES AND APACHES WITH HELLFIRE'S DESTROYED THE ENEMY.
00:09:05MEANWHILE, AMERICAN COUNTER
00:09:06BATTERY RADAR IDENTIFIED THE
00:09:11ROUNDS THAT DESTROYED THE ARTILLERY.
00:09:16MOST OF ITS 14,000 SOLDIERS DIED.
00:09:18BY EVENING THEY HAD DESTROYED
00:09:25FIVE ENEMY DIVISIONS, THE BEST
00:09:27AND THE REMAINING WAS STRUGGLING
00:09:29TO GET OUT ACROSS EUPHRATES AND INTO CENTRAL IRAQ AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.
00:09:34WHEN THE PRESIDENT TERMINATED
00:09:37OPERATIONS THE FOLLOWING
00:09:39MORNING, KUWAIT WAS OUT -- IRAQI
00:09:45FORCES WERE OUT OF KUWAIT.
00:09:49THERE HAS BEEN MUCH ANALYSIS OF THE CONFLICTS POLITICAL AND
00:09:52STRATEGIC RAMIFICATIONS, BUT
00:09:56POLITICAL SCIENTISTS, DIPLOMATIC HISTORIANS IT IS A TOPIC THAT
00:09:59FUELS AND LESS DISCUSSION. ONE LOOKS AT THE WAR'S ORIGINS.
00:10:03AND EARLY STAGES.
00:10:06COULD IT HAVE BEEN PREVENTED?
00:10:12SHOULD WE HAVE SUPPORTED KUWAIT
00:10:17AND SAUDI ARABIA IN THE FIRST PLACE? HOW EFFECTIVE WAS THE COALITION?
00:10:22AT THE OTHER END OF THE CONFLICT
00:10:27WHERE GENERAL SCHWARZKOPF AND POWELL ACCURATELY COMMUNICATING
00:10:30THE SITUATION ON THE GROUND? WHY DID THE PRESIDENT TERMINATE
00:10:34THE WAR WHEN HE DID.
00:10:38HIS GOAL FOR SYNDROME REAL AND WHAT WERE ITS EFFECTS.
00:10:44WHAT WERE THE PERSPECTIVES OF
00:10:45THE SOVIETS AND THE CHINESE AND
00:10:49WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN DESERT STORM AND THE SUBSEQUENT
00:10:52ISSUES IN THE MIDDLE EAST?
00:10:56THE CONFLICT IN AFGHANISTAN, THE
00:10:59RETURN TO IRAQ IN 2003 IN THE
00:11:02LONG LIST OF CRISES SINCE THIS CONFLICT.
00:11:06I'M SURE THESE ARE AT THE CENTER OF MANY DISCUSSIONS IN THE BUSH
00:11:10SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC SERVICE.
00:11:15HOWEVER I'M GOING TO IGNORE ALL OF IT, I'M GOING TO IGNORE THOSE ISSUES UNLESS THEY ARISE IN THE
00:11:20Q&A AND FOCUS ON A SIMPLE ASPECT
00:11:23OF THE CONFLICT, THE WAR ENDED IN AN IMPRESSIVE MILITARY VICTORY AND IT WASN'T EVEN CLOSE.
00:11:32IT WAS COMPARABLE ONLY WITH WINFIELD SCOTT'S MARCH INTO
00:11:35MEXICO CITY IN 1846 AND
00:11:41BRADLEY'S OPERATION COBRA. MY MESSAGE TODAY ON THE WAR 35TH
00:11:45ANNIVERSARY IS WE SHOULD NOT WRITE OFF THE SUCCESS IS
00:11:49SOMETHING THAT WAS PREORDAINED. WE SHOULD REMEMBER THAT LESS
00:11:53THAN 16 YEARS EARLIER THE U.S.
00:11:57ARMY HAD WITHDRAWN FROM SAIGON,
00:12:02THE TRAIL OF AMERICAN MILITARY ACTIONS IN THE FOLLOWING YEARS WERE GENERALLY FAILED OR INAPT.
00:12:09THE ABORTED HOSTAGE RESCUE IN IRAN IN 1980, THE KILLING OF MARINES IN BEIRUT.
00:12:15FOLLOWED BY THE RELATIVELY COMICAL INVASION OF GRENADA THAT
00:12:18DID LITTLE TO COVER AMERICAN
00:12:23MILITARY IN GLORY ONLY TO RECENTLY INCLUDE AN INVASION IN
00:12:27PANAMA INDICATING THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCCESS.
00:12:31BUT THE IMAGE OF WASTE AND
00:12:32FORTUNES IN VIETNAM CAPTURED THE
00:12:36ATTENTION OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC AND PRESS. A REQUIRED READING FOR ARMY
00:12:41OFFICERS WAS AMERICA'S FIRST
00:12:46BATTLES, A COLLECTION OF VIGNETTES THAT COLLECTIVELY ARGUED THAT THE U.S. ARMY DID POORLY IN THE BEGINNING OF A WAR.
00:12:51AS A RESULT, DURING THE BUILD UP
00:12:53INTO DESERT STORM, CRITICS AND
00:12:58PUNDITS PREDICTED MASSIVE AMERICAN CASUALTIES AT THE HANDS OF THE IRAQI VETERAN ARMY.
00:13:03THE SOVIETS HAD EQUIPPED IT WITH
00:13:05AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF WEAPONS AS
00:13:08WELL AS OLDER BUT STILL
00:13:11EFFECTIVE TANKS AND CARRIERS. THE ARTILLERY AND AIR DEFENSE
00:13:13EQUIPMENT WERE EQUIVALENT IF NOT
00:13:18SUPERIOR.
00:13:19AGAINST THE IRANIANS IT HAD USED
00:13:24MISSILES AND CHEMICAL WEAPONS. IT ENDED THE WAR WITH A SOPHISTICATED MULTI-DIVISION
00:13:28GROUND ATTACK FORCING THE IRANIAN REGIME TO NEGOTIATE.
00:13:33HOW COULD THE NOVICE AMERICANS PREVAIL AGAINST ITS MILITARY
00:13:37WITHOUT SUFFERING EMBARRASSMENT?
00:13:41THAT IS WHY MANY PUNDITS AND
00:13:42SO-CALLED EXPERTS PREDICTED.
00:13:48IT ENDED WITH A DECISIVE MILITARY SUCCESS.
00:13:52AS A SOLDIER I WITNESSED THE REMARKABLE TRANSFORMATION OF THE
00:13:57FORCE BETWEEN 1975 IN 1989. IT WAS EXCITING AS PROFESSIONALS
00:14:02ARGUED OVER TRAINING METHODS,
00:14:06ORGANIZATIONS, AND WEAPON SYSTEMS.
00:14:08I WATCHED THE ARMY TRANSITION
00:14:13AND BY 1983 MY TANK COMPANY WAS
00:14:14FULL OF YOUNG MEN.
00:14:19WOMEN BECAME PART OF THIS FORCE
00:14:21AND HAD SOME DIFFICULTY SORTING OUT THE DETAILS TO HELP MAKE IT MORE PROFESSIONAL.
00:14:27IT WAS INTELLECTUALLY CHALLENGING AND MY YEARS TEACHING AT LEAVENWORTH WERE
00:14:30EASILY THE MOST INFLUENTIAL IN MY LIFE.
00:14:33IT WAS AN EXCELLENT TIME TO BE IN THE ARMY.
00:14:38THE ULTIMATE QUESTION WAS COULD THEY FIGHT? YEARS LATER I WOULD UNDERSTAND
00:14:41THE DETAILS OF HOW A CADRE OF
00:14:45PROFESSIONAL OFFICERS RETURNED FROM VIETNAM DETERMINED TO MAKE THE ARMY COMPETENT IN A
00:14:49CONVENTIONAL WAR. IN A RELATIVELY SHORT TIME, THEY
00:14:53GUIDED THE ARMY AS IT REGROUPED, REORGANIZED, PREPARED FOR THE FUTURE.
00:14:59BY 1980, THE TRANSITION WAS ESSENTIALLY COMPLETE, THE U.S.
00:15:02ARMY AND ITS SISTER SERVICES ASSESS POTENTIAL ENEMIES AND
00:15:06IDENTIFIED HOW IT NEEDED TO
00:15:08FIGHT TO BE SUCCESSFUL AGAINST
00:15:11THE SOVIET ATTACK. SECONDLY, THEY DETERMINED WHAT TIER AND NEEDED TO WIN SUCH A
00:15:16FIGHT AND CHANGE ITS COMPOSITION, NOT ONLY ANSWER
00:15:20WEAPONS BUT ALSO AN ENTIRE ARRAY OF SUPPORTING LAND, AIR, AND SEA
00:15:24SYSTEMS. I DEVELOPED A TRAINING
00:15:27PHILOSOPHY THAT RESULTED IN
00:15:29COMPETENT FROM DIVISION STAFF.
00:15:33IT WAS THIS COMBINATION THAT RESULTED IN ONE OF THE MOST
00:15:35SPECTACULAR ACHIEVEMENTS. YES.
00:15:42THE ARMY EMERGED FROM WORLD WAR II AND KOREA THAT KNEW HOW TO
00:15:45FIGHT BASE DOING A DECADE OF HARD-EARNED EXPERTISE.
00:15:50HOWEVER, EXPERIMENTS WITH TACTICAL NUCLEAR WEAPONS, THE
00:15:51TESTING OF A RADICAL ATOMIC
00:15:55DIVISION AND A DECADE OF COUNTERINSURGENCY AND ADVISORY
00:15:59MISSIONS DIFFUSED TO THIS EXPERIENCE.
00:16:03CONVENTIONAL OPERATIONS AGAINST A CLEVER BUT RELATIVELY
00:16:05UNSOPHISTICATED ENEMY, THE NORTH KOREAN ARMY, FURTHER CONFUSED
00:16:09ABOUT HOW THE U.S. ARMY WOULD
00:16:14FIGHT AGAINST A SOVIET MENACE. THERE WAS NO SHARED
00:16:17UNDERSTANDING OF THE AMERICAN CONCEPT OF WAR. PROFESSIONAL OFFICERS UNHAPPY
00:16:21WITH THE OUTCOME IN VIETNAM AND
00:16:25SHOCKED BY THE DISPLAY OF
00:16:29FIREPOWER IN THE AIR ABOARD
00:16:33DEMANDED CHANGE.
00:16:34A LEGENDARY CAST OF CHARACTERS
00:16:40DROVE THIS CHANGE.
00:16:48THEY DROVE THE TRANSFORMATION FROM THEIR PERCHES AT UNIT
00:16:53COMMANDERS AND THE U.S. ARMY SUPERB SCHOOL SYSTEM, INTENSELY
00:16:57WRITTEN ARTICLES SUCH AS
00:17:02MILITARY VIEW, PARAMETERS, ARMOR, AND INFANTRY ALSO DROVE MUCH OF THE CHANGE.
00:17:07BEGINNING IN 1976, THE NEW U.S.
00:17:10ARMY TRAINING COMMAND CHANGED HOW THE ARMY WOULD TRAIN TO FIGHT.
00:17:15GENERALLY REFERRED TO AS ACTIVE DEFENSE STOCK IT BECAME FOCUSED
00:17:19ON WINNING THE FIRST BATTLE OF THE NEXT WAR.
00:17:21IT WAS A GOOD START AFTER
00:17:25VIETNAM, BUT MANY FOUND IT NOT SUFFICIENT.
00:17:29ITS RECEPTION THROUGH THE FORCE WAS MIXED.
00:17:31ACCORDING TO ONE IT WAS ONE OF
00:17:34THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL EVER IMPOSED ON THE ARMY.
00:17:39DISCUSSION EMERGED THAT FOCUSED
00:17:44ON THE LOWEST TACTICAL ECHELON WITHOUT SERIOUS CONSIDERATION OF
00:17:47LARGE UNIT MANEUVER WAS UNSATISFACTORY.
00:17:53BY EARLY 1980 THEY SOUGHT TO
00:17:58REVISE THIS DOCUMENT AND PROVE HOW THE ARMY WOULD FIGHT.
00:18:03THE RESULT WAS AIR, LAND, BATTLE
00:18:07AND AN INTRODUCTION OF THE OPERATIONAL LEVEL OF WAR.
00:18:12CO-AUTHORED BY DON HOLDER IT
00:18:13FIRST APPEARED IN 1982 AND
00:18:16REFINED IN 1986.
00:18:22ALMOST IMMEDIATELY THE SERVICE SCHOOLS IMPLEMENTED THE NEW DOCTRINE'S KEY CONCEPTS, THE
00:18:27GOAL OF OPERATIONAL ART IS TO
00:18:30PLACE HOLDERS IN THE RIGHT PLACE ON THE BATTLEFIELD WITH THE
00:18:32RIGHT EQUIPMENT AND ALL AVAILABLE MULTIPLIERS.
00:18:37THE INTENT IS TO DO THE MOST DAMAGE TO THE ENEMY WITH THE
00:18:41LEAST HARM TO THEMSELVES AND
00:18:44ACHIEVE THE STRATEGIC OBJECTIVE. TO ADDRESS THIS INTRODUCTION,
00:18:49LEAVENWORTH ESTABLISHED A SCHOOL OF ADVANCED MILITARY STUDY ASSEMBLING SOME OF THE ARMY'S
00:18:52BEST MAJORS OWN OF THE EDUCATION OF THE ART OF WAR.
00:18:57ITS GRADUATES ARE OFTEN REFERRED
00:18:59TO AS JEDI KNIGHTS, THE SEVEN
00:19:08COURSE OF DEFENSES RESULTED IN ARMY FIGHTING VEHICLES ALL
00:19:12ESSENTIALLY ONLINE FACING A
00:19:15DISJOINTED IRAQI ARRAY WHICH IS
00:19:17A PERFECT EXAMPLE, THE LACK OF
00:19:21AMERICAN CASUALTIES WAS A DIRECT
00:19:26RESULT OF THE ARMY'S
00:19:27INTRODUCTION OF OPERATIONAL.
00:19:36THE REFORMERS EMPHASIZED THE
00:19:42ROLE OF INITIATIVE BY JUNIOR OFFICERS.
00:19:45THE U.S. ARMY IN WORLD WAR II OPERATED A COMBINED ARMS
00:19:48ENVIRONMENT ENGINEERS, AVIATION
00:19:55UNDER ONE COMMANDER.
00:19:58THESE COMBINED ARMS TEAMS HAD A SYNERGISTIC EFFECT ON BATTLEFIELD.
00:20:02THE ARTILLERY WAS NEARBY AND
00:20:06RAPIDLY AVAILABLE.
00:20:10THE EMMYS HAD TO DEFEAT THE PACKAGE.
00:20:15AFTER A DECADE OF COUNTERINSURGENCY THE
00:20:18POST-VIETNAM ARMY WAS SOMEWHAT OUT OF PRACTICE.
00:20:24THE 1970'S AND 1986 DOCTRINE EMPHASIZED THE IMPORTANCE OF
00:20:30THIS FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE.
00:20:37EVERY BATTALION ON DESERT STORM FAHD IS A MIXTURE OF TANKS INFANTRY AND ENGINEERS.
00:20:39EACH OF THESE TASKFORCES HAD A
00:20:41DIRECT SUPPORT BATTALION FOR
00:20:46MANEUVER COMMANDER. AIR FORCE LIAISON OFFICERS ACCOMPANIED THE BRIGADE
00:20:51COMMANDERS TO SUPPORT THE OPERATION.
00:20:54THE ENEMY WAS UNABLE TO EXPLOIT
00:20:57AND HAD NOTHING TO RESPOND AND MOST IMPORTANTLY WE SHOULD NOT
00:21:00FORGET THE CONCEPT OF INITIATIVE EXPRESSED AS UNDERSTANDING THE
00:21:04COMMANDER'S INTENT.
00:21:07FEAR OF FAILURE HAD BEEN A PROBLEM.
00:21:12THE IMPLIED LACK OF TRUST IN SUBORDINATES WAS OFFICIALLY GONE
00:21:15WITH THIS NEW ARMY AND THE
00:21:18ABSOLUTE ORDER FOR INSTRUCTIONS, JUNIOR LEADERS SHOULD TAKE THE
00:21:21INITIATIVE AND DO WHAT THEY EXPECTED.
00:21:24DOING NOTHING AND SIMPLY WAITING FOR ORDERS WAS UNACCEPTABLE.
00:21:28IN DESERT STORM AND THE RESEARCH I DID ON IT, I HAVE MANY
00:21:32EXAMPLES OF SOLDIERS, YOUNG
00:21:34SOLDIERS, NCOS, JUNIOR OFFICERS
00:21:37TAKING DECISIVE ACTION BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED IT WAS WHAT THEIR BOSS WANTED THEM TO DO.
00:21:42THEREFORE FROM THE TIME OFFICERS
00:21:45ENTERED THEIR BASIC COURSE UNTIL THEY COMPLETED THEIR COMMAND AND
00:21:48STAFF LEVEL EDUCATION, THEY CONTINUED TO REFINE THE
00:21:52INTELLECTUAL CONCEPT OF HOW TO
00:21:55FIGHT WITHIN THE CONSTRUCT OF COMBINED ARMS TEAMS.
00:21:59SERGEANTS MATURED IN THE SYSTEM UNDERSTANDING THE IMPORTANCE OF
00:22:02COMBINED ARMS AND HOW TO TAKE THE INITIATIVE.
00:22:08THIS SHARED VISION OF BATTLE ENABLED RAPID TRANSMISSION OF
00:22:12INSTRUCTIONS AND ADJUSTMENTS TO OVERCOME THE FOG ONE OF THE BATTLEFIELD.
00:22:16IT WAS IN STARK CONTRAST TO THE CONFUSION OF THE ENEMY.
00:22:22HOWEVER IT NEEDED TO FIGHT
00:22:23AGAINST A MODERN, WELL-TRAINED, TECHNICALLY SOPHISTICATED FORCE
00:22:27IT NEEDED TO REVAMP EQUIPMENT.
00:22:29TURNING THEIR GAZE FROM VIETNAM THROUGH THE PRISM OF THE
00:22:32ARAB-ISRAELI WAR, OFFICERS WERE
00:22:36SHOCKED BY THE ABYSMAL QUALITY AND QUANTITY OF AMERICAN
00:22:40EQUIPMENT.
00:22:43THROUGHOUT THE COLD WAR, THE SOVIET UNION CONTINUED TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF ITS WAR
00:22:46FIGHTING GEAR AND IN 1975, THE
00:22:51SOVIET HIGH COMMAND OUTFITTED ITS FORCES WITH AN ARRAY OF
00:22:53MODERN TANKS WITH GUNS AND MISSILES.
00:22:59THEY HAD A WIDE RANGE OF ARMY RECONNAISSANCE VEHICLES,
00:23:03ARTILLERY, AIR DEFENSE SYSTEMS.
00:23:05TRUCKS WITH WIDE TIRES CAPABLE OF CROSS-COUNTRY MANEUVERS, THE
00:23:09FLEET OF HELICOPTERS WAS
00:23:11IMPRESSIVE AND THEY EMPLOYED CRUISE MISSILES AND ROCKETS AND
00:23:15SOVIET INDUSTRY WAS ALWAYS MODIFYING AND IMPROVING.
00:23:18IN CONTRAST, THE UNITED STATES
00:23:20ARMY AFTER ALMOST A DECADE WAS
00:23:24ABOUT A DECADE BEHIND.
00:23:26OUR MAIN BATTLE TANK HAD A 105
00:23:29MILLIMETER GUN AND HAD NOT
00:23:32CHANGED MUCH SINCE THE KENNEDY ADMINISTRATION.
00:23:35WHILE BETTER THAN TRUCKS, ARE
00:23:37INFANTRY WENT TO BATTLE WISH
00:23:39ALSO HAD AN ALUMINUM BODY, NOT
00:23:42VERY EFFECTIVE, PROVIDING LITTLE PROTECTION.
00:23:47THE SOLDIERS HAD TO DISMOUNT TO FIGHT. WHILE OUR ARTILLERY WAS GOOD IT
00:23:53LACKED THE CHANGE THE LIST ABOUT
00:23:59AMERICAN EQUIPMENT CONTINUES.
00:24:07THE 1975 PREPARED TO GO TO WAR WITH M1 14 RECONNAISSANCE
00:24:12VEHICLES POWERED BY A CHEVY V-8
00:24:15ENGINE WITH AN ALUMINUM BODY AND RUBBER TRACKS, IT WAS UNRELIABLE
00:24:19AS ANY CARRIER IT WASN'T EVEN
00:24:23GOOD ENOUGH FOR COMBAT IN VIETNAM.
00:24:28THE ARMORED RECONNAISSANCE
00:24:29VEHICLE AND A MISSILE SYSTEM
00:24:33THAT SELDOM WORKED.
00:24:37THE JEEP HAD NOT CHANGED MUCH
00:24:38SINCE WORLD WAR II AND STILL HAD
00:24:41NARROW TIRES THAT GOT STUCK.
00:24:45FOR ALL YOU OLD SOLDIERS, WHAT SOLDIER CANNOT FORGET THE
00:24:49GATLING GUN? IT WAS A BAD STATE OF AFFAIRS.
00:24:53THE RE-EQUIPPING OF THE U.S. ARMY IS A GOOD AGO PART OF THE STORY.
00:24:57THE RESULTS WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFERENT IF THEY HAD ARRIVED IN
00:25:01A RACK WITH THE GEAR IN 1975 OR
00:25:061980.
00:25:11FAST-MOVING TANKS THAT CAN
00:25:12MANEUVER BEHIND THE LINES AND
00:25:21PROTECT THEM FROM ENEMY ARTILLERY.
00:25:28BEFORE OR AFTER IT MADE CONTACT WITH ENEMY GROUND TROOPS.
00:25:39EXPLORING ENERGY DEFENSE SYSTEMS.
00:25:47BEYOND THE WEAPONS WERE AN ARRAY
00:25:51OF OTHER LESS RECOGNIZED SYSTEMS. FAMILIES IN MEDIUM AND HEAVY
00:25:56TRUCKS, HEAVY EQUIPMENT
00:26:07TRANSPORTERS CARRIED TANKS AND HEAVY VEHICLES WHILE THE HUMVEE
00:26:11REPLACED THE OLD JEEP. AS A RESULT, THE DESERT STORM
00:26:14ARMY WOULD ARRIVE NOT THE
00:26:20REMAINS OF A PREVIOUS CONFLICT.
00:26:26REMEMBER, THE SOVIETS PROVIDED MUCH OF THEIR EQUIPMENT TO THE
00:26:29IRAQI ARMY, SO LET'S BE CLEAR DESPITE IMPROVEMENTS IN AMERICAN
00:26:34WEAPONS, OUR QUALITATIVE EDGE WAS MARGINAL AT BEST.
00:26:39THERE ARE NO SERIOUS OBSERVERS OF DESERT STORM, OF THE GULF WAR
00:26:43OF 1991, THAT BELIEVE THE
00:26:47SUCCESS WAS SIMPLY AS A RESULT OF OUR STUFF.
00:26:50IF PROPERLY HANDLED, THE T 72
00:26:55TANK, THE FIGHTING VEHICLE, THE
00:26:58HOWITZER SHOULD, THEY SHOULD HAVE INFLICTED SERIOUS
00:27:01CASUALTIES ON THE COALITION FORCES, WHICH LEADS US TO THE
00:27:03MAIN REASON FOR AMERICAN SUCCESS IN THE WAR.
00:27:09FAR BETTER TRAINED.
00:27:12WHEN ISRAEL'S PERFORMANCE WAS
00:27:16EXAMINED IN THE 1972 WAR WAS SO
00:27:19WELL-TRAINED AND COHESIVE CREWS AND UNITS TO WIN THE WARS.
00:27:25THERE WAS MUCH TIME SPENT STUDYING ISRAELI TANKERS.
00:27:29IT DID NOT MATTER WHAT KIND OF
00:27:30TANK THE ISRAELIS USED.
00:27:35M 60'S, BERGERSON TAUREANS,
00:27:37REFURBISHED OLDER SOVIET TANKS,
00:27:39AND EVEN SHERMAN'S FROM WORLD WAR II.
00:27:45WHEN THEY COMPARED THE TRAINING
00:27:48OF AMERICAN AND ISRAELI CREWS, THEY WERE STUNNED BY THE DISPARITY.
00:27:53FOR EXAMPLE, THEY DISCOVERED ISRAELI TRAINING WAS EXTREMELY
00:27:57RIGOROUS, WITH DEMANDING STANDARDS AND THE TANK CREWS
00:28:01FIRED MORE THAN FOUR TIMES THE
00:28:03TRAINING AMMUNITION OF AMERICANS.
00:28:06IN 1974, THE DEPUTY CHIEF OF
00:28:10STAFF OF TRAINING REVAMPED THE ARMY'S TRAINING PHILOSOPHY AND
00:28:15SOUGHT TO RADICALLY OVERHAUL TRAINING AT ALL LEVELS IN ALL
00:28:19BRANCHES FROM INDIVIDUAL SOLDIERS TO MILITARY UNITS AND
00:28:22EVEN IN THE SERVICE GOALS. IT WOULD ESTABLISH PROFESSIONAL
00:28:26STANDARDS FOR THE ALL VOLUNTEER ARMY.
00:28:29MEMORY LANE MIGHT PUT THIS TOGETHER.
00:28:32I PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED THESE CHANGES AS A SOLDIER AND YOUNG OFFICER.
00:28:36I ENLISTED IN 1968 AND SUFFERED
00:28:40UNDER BAD, INEFFECTIVE TRAINING.
00:28:42RETURNING HOME IN 1971I STARTED SCHOOL AND AFTER GRADUATION
00:28:46BECAME AN ARMOR OFFICER.
00:28:50SOON AFTER I TOOK CHARGE OF MY
00:28:52CAVALRY PLATOON IN 1975, WE
00:28:55DEPLOYED INTO FIELD ON AN ARMY TRAINING TEST. WE HAD NO STANDARDS.
00:29:02EVALUATORS FOLLOWED BEHIND.
00:29:06JUST GOT OF ROLLING ON BEHIND YOU.
00:29:09THE EVALUATORS FOLLOWED BEHIND
00:29:12AS WE CROSSED THE MANEUVER AREA.
00:29:15DURING BREAKS HE WOULD COME OVER AND DISCUSS WHAT WE WERE DOING AND GIVE SOME POINTERS.
00:29:20HALF OF MY POORLY MAINTAINED VEHICLES DIDN'T REACH THE FINAL
00:29:24OBJECTIVE, YET IN THE END, SOON
00:29:29AFTER RETURNING FROM OUR TRAINING TEST, MY TROOP COMMANDER HANDED ME A COPY OF
00:29:33THE NEW MANUAL, HOW TO PREPARE
00:29:37AND CONDUCT MILITARY TRAINING. IT WAS SIMPLY REVOLUTIONARY.
00:29:42NO LONGER WITH THE ARMY MEASURE TRAINING EFFECTIVENESS BY THE
00:29:46TIME SPENT.
00:29:49FROM NOW ON, THE QUESTION WAS WHETHER SOLDIERS OR THE UNITS MET THE TEST.
00:29:55SHORTLY AFTER THIS MANUAL SHOWED UP, A PLETHORA OF TRAINING ALSO
00:29:59ARRIVED. INDIVIDUAL SOLDIERS RECEIVED
00:30:03MANUALS THAT SPECIFIED THE SKILLS THEY NEED TO PERFORM
00:30:05THEIR DUTIES BY GRADE AND
00:30:09JUSTIFY THEIR CAREER FIELD BASED
00:30:10ON TRADE-OFF GUIDELINES, THE
00:30:14BRANCH CLARIFIED WHAT WAS THE CENTRAL TASKS FOR THE SOLDIERS
00:30:16OF CERTAIN GRADE NEEDED REFORM.
00:30:20THEY DETERMINED THE CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH THEY HAD TO
00:30:22DEMONSTRATE THE SKILL AND
00:30:24FINALLY THEY IDENTIFIED SPECIFIC
00:30:27STANDARDS TO REACH THE TASK.
00:30:30SKILLS COMMON TO ALL PERFORMING
00:30:34LIFE-SAVING MEASURES OR READING A MAP.
00:30:37OTHER SKILLS SPECIFIED SPECIFIC
00:30:41MILITARY FIELDS. AN INFANTRY SQUAD LEADER HAD TO
00:30:45BE ABLE TO REQUEST AND ADJUST FIRE.
00:30:49CONDITIONS INCLUDING HAVING A MAP, COMPASS, BINOCULARS.
00:30:53AND ADJUSTING THE FIRE.
00:30:56TANK CREWS HAD TO BE ABLE TO BORE SIGHT THEIR MAIN GUN.
00:31:02THE IRAQIS DID NOT BORE SIGHT THEIR MAIN GUN.
00:31:05THAT MEANS THE SITE AND THE GUN ARE ALIGNED.
00:31:07YOU CAN'T HIT THE TARGET IF
00:31:10YOURSIGHT -- TARGET IF YOUR
00:31:15SIGHT IS HERE AND YOUR GUN IS
00:31:19HERE. THE DESERT STORM ARMY TRAINED
00:31:23FOR THE BEST CONDITIONS AND STANDARDS.
00:31:26THE TEST ENSURED THE SOLDIERS
00:31:29WERE PROFICIENT IN THEIR FIELD, REPLACING THE OLD MOS TEST, THIS
00:31:34EXAMINATION WAS PERFORMANCE-BASED, MONITORED BY
00:31:36THE CHAIN OF COMMAND, RESULTS
00:31:40BECAME PART OF PROMOTION BOARD ACTIONS.
00:31:42PREPARING BECAME A KEY COMPONENT
00:31:45OF SERGEANTS' BUSINESS. ACROSS THE ARMY, VISITORS WOULD
00:31:48NOTICE SMALL GROUPS OF SOLDIERS WORKING UNDER SUPERVISION OF A
00:31:52JUNIOR NCO AS THEY HONED INDIVIDUAL SKILLS IN PREPARATION.
00:31:57THE ARMY CONSISTS OF TEAMS
00:32:00RANGING IN SIZE FROM SQUADS AND CREWS TO BATTALIONS.
00:32:04GORMAN AND STAFF WORKING TO
00:32:08DEVELOP SIMILAR GUIDELINES FOR
00:32:08THESE ORGANIZATIONS.
00:32:13THEY DEVELOPED DETAILS AND TRAINING PLANS USING THE STANDARDS AND APPROACHED GUNNERY
00:32:18RANGES WITH A NEW SENSE OF URGENCY.
00:32:23FOR EXAMPLE, A TANK PLATOON ENGAGING MULTIPLE MACHINE-GUN
00:32:27TARGETS WHILE OPERATING AS A COMPANY TEAM. TANK CREWS IDENTIFIED TARGETS
00:32:30WITHIN THEIR SECTOR, MOST
00:32:33TARGETS, MOST DANGEROUS ENGAGED
00:32:36AND CONTACT REPORTS SENT.
00:32:42WE HAD TO DO FIRE ENGAGEMENTS,
00:32:47ACQUIRED, AND HIT WITHIN ONE MINUTE.
00:32:53THOSE WERE STANDARDS UNDER ALL KINDS OF CONDITIONS, THAT IS
00:32:57PRETTY IMPRESSIVE STUFF. THE SERVICE SCHOOL DEVELOPED SIMILAR STANDARDS FOR COMPANIES
00:33:00AND BATTALIONS ORGANIZING
00:33:02SIMILAR TACTICAL MISSIONS SUCH
00:33:05AS OCCUPY AND ASSEMBLY.
00:33:08THE RESULT WAS THAT NONCOMMISSIONED OFFICERS AND
00:33:11BATTALION AND COMPANY LEADERS HAD A MENU OF READY DRIVEN
00:33:14TRAINING PLANS.
00:33:17UNITS DEVELOPED TRAINING PLANS TO FIT PARAMETERS.
00:33:19WHILE IN GERMANY I WAS IN ARMORED CAVALRY SQUADRON AND WE
00:33:24HAVE A DIRTY DOZEN WE HAD TO BE PROFICIENT AT, SUCH THINGS AS
00:33:27TACTICAL ROAD MARKERS, GUARD OPERATIONS.
00:33:36IN 1979, TRAINING HAD TO CONTINUE AND BE REALISTIC, THE
00:33:38ARMY REACTIVATED THE OLD DESERT TRAINING CENTER AT FORT IRWIN.
00:33:45THAT IS WHERE WE USED TO MANEUVER A LOT OF STUFF BEFORE THE WAR.
00:33:48LOCATED IN THE MOJAVE DESERT,
00:33:53THE ARMY EQUIPPED IT WITH STATE-OF-THE-ART TRAINING DEVICES TO SIMULATE ENGAGEMENTS.
00:33:58IT ORGANIZED A PROFESSIONAL OPPOSING FORCE, TRAINED IT IN
00:34:02SOVIET TACTICS, AND DRESSED IT IN SOVIET STYLE UNIFORMS.
00:34:06FOR EQUIPMENT, THEY REFURBISHED
00:34:11SHERIDAN'S AND MODIFIED THEM TO LOOK LIKE SOVIET TANKS.
00:34:15RATHER THAN EVALUATORS ON TEMPORARY DUTY, THIS WAS NOW AN
00:34:18ASSIGNED DUTY AND OFFICERS
00:34:23BECAME PROFICIENT OBSERVER CONTROLLERS.
00:34:26BATTALIONS MOVED THROUGH INTENSE MULTIWEEK ROTATIONS OF
00:34:29DEPLOYMENT, FORCE ON FORCE MANEUVERS, AND LIVE FIRE EVENTS.
00:34:35NEXT TO SPECIFIC TRACKING AND MONITORING DEVICES, EVERY ACTION
00:34:37FOR EVERY VEHICLE BECAME A MATTER OF RECORD.
00:34:41AT THE END OF EACH TRAINING EVENT, THEY CONDUCTED INTENSE
00:34:45AFTER ACTION REVIEWS LARGELY DRIVEN BY A CHAIN OF COMMAND.
00:34:49IT WAS THIS INTENSE COLLECTIVE TRAINING THE WRITTEN GERMANY
00:34:51THAT WAS CRUCIAL TO THE AMERICAN
00:34:55BATTLEFIELD SUCCESS AND THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER THINGS WE COULD TALK ABOUT TRAINING
00:34:59IMPROVEMENTS DURING THIS PERIOD AND IT IS CRITICAL BECAUSE THE ARMY CAN'T JUST SHOW UP FOR STUFF.
00:35:04FOR EXAMPLE, TRADE-OFF EXPANDED THE PROGRAM BY ADDING A SENIOR
00:35:08BATTLE LAB EXPERIENCE CALLED THE
00:35:13BATTLE COMMAND TRAINING PROGRAM BASED AT FORT LEAVENWORTH.
00:35:17D.C. TIPI OBSERVERS, TRAINERS,
00:35:21AND A WEALTH OF SUPPORTING
00:35:23ELECTRONIC COMMITMENT WOULD
00:35:28DEMAND A HOME STATION TRAINING.
00:35:29IN ANOTHER TRAINING COURSE, THEY
00:35:32BECAME MORE FOCUSED AND DIRECTED
00:35:36AND INCLUDED SIGNIFICANT BLOCKS OF LEADERSHIP AND DEVELOPING TRAINING PLANS.
00:35:41IN ANOTHER EXAMPLE, THE DEMAND
00:35:43AND STAFF COLLEGE WHO WOULD
00:35:46LATER GO ON TO COMMAND SHIFTED
00:35:49FROM LARGE LECTURES TO SMALL
00:35:50STAFF GROUPS REDUCING THE KIND
00:35:54OF STAFF PROBLEMS YOU WOULD EXPECT FROM BRIGADE AND DIVISION STAFFS.
00:35:57TO PHILLY LEVEL -- LOWER LEVEL
00:35:58STAFF CAP THEY PRODUCE THE COMBINED ARMED SERVICES STAFF
00:36:03SCHOOL TO PREPARE JUNIOR
00:36:05OFFICERS FOR SERVICE.
00:36:10FINALLY, OFFICER COMMISSION WAS REVAMPED AND REORGANIZED WITH THE INTRODUCTION OF CADET
00:36:14COMMAND UNDER MY FORMER BOSS, MAJOR GENERAL ROBERT HE WAGONER.
00:36:18THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE U.S. ARMY WENT TO WAR TRAINED TO
00:36:23FIGHT AT ALL LEVELS IN 1991 FROM SQUADS TO BATTALIONS AND STAFFS.
00:36:28THERE IS MUCH I SKIPPED OR IGNORED IN THIS PRESENTATION.
00:36:32THIS PRESENTATION WAS ARMY-HEAVY , AND THE AIR FORCE, NAVY, AND
00:36:36MARINES, MY APOLOGIES TO ALL OF
00:36:38YOU, BUT I HOPE MY MESSAGE IS CLEAR. THE RESULTS WERE NOT GUARANTEED.
00:36:43AND MANY EXPECTED THE OLD ARMY
00:36:44TO SHOW UP AND FACE DEFEAT OR
00:36:49EMBARRASSMENT. THE TITLE OF THIS PRESENTATION IS HOW DID IT ALL END?
00:36:52I TOOK THAT PHRASE FROM US -- A
00:36:57QUESTION BEFORE THE GROUND OFFENSIVE.
00:37:02THE NATURE OF THAT QUESTION
00:37:05ASKED BY A STRATEGIST TO A TACTICAL COMMANDER CREATES
00:37:08OPPORTUNITIES FOR ALL KINDS OF ACADEMIC DISCUSSIONS ON
00:37:11MILITARY-CIVILIAN POLICY.
00:37:15WITHIN THE MOST IMPORTANT TACTICAL COMMANDER, HE HAD
00:37:18LITTLE PROBLEM DRAFTING A RESPONSE.
00:37:21HE TOLD THE SECRETARY EXACTLY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN, HOW HIS CORPS
00:37:25WOULD BREAK THROUGH THE DEFENSES , LOCATE THE REPUBLICAN GUARD, AND DESTROY IT.
00:37:33HE AND HIS FELLOW COMMANDERS WOULD DRIVE THEM FROM KUWAIT AND
00:37:37RESTORE THE CIVILIAN GOVERNMENT. THEN, THEY WOULD STAND BY FOR ORDERS.
00:37:41WHILE FRANKS AND HIS GENERALS HAD A CAUTIOUS RESPECT FOR THE
00:37:44IRAQI ARMY, THEY KNEW IT WAS VULNERABLE.
00:37:47IT'S FUNDAMENTAL SOLDIERS AND
00:37:51CREWS WERE POORLY TRAINED AND
00:37:52FELT -- AND SELDOM FIRED WEAPONS DURING EXERCISES.
00:37:56THE REGIME PURGE COMMANDERS WHO WERE TOO SUCCESSFUL IN THE BATTLEFIELD.
00:38:00OFFICERS AT ALL RANKS FACED THE
00:38:02POSSIBILITY OF PUNISHMENT FOR
00:38:06SIMPLE POLITICAL OFFENSES. AND THEY FAILED TO HONESTLY
00:38:09EVALUATE AND CORRECT PROBLEMS
00:38:13DISCOVERED DURING THE RECENTLY CONCLUDED IRAN-IRAQ WAR.
00:38:17AMERICAN SENIOR LEADERS KNEW THE
00:38:19SITUATION IN A RACK AND REFUSED
00:38:22TO BE OVERLY CONFIDENT. AFTER SMASHING THROUGH THE IRAQI
00:38:26ARMY, CREWS AT ALL LEVELS WAITED FOR THE INEVITABLE COUNTER
00:38:30ATTACK. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED AT THE
00:38:33NATIONAL TRAINING CENTER. YOU ACCOMPLISH ARE EXECUTIVE AND
00:38:37THE ENEMY COUNTERATTACKS. BUT IT NEVER CAME.
00:38:40IS THAT ALL THEY HAVE? HOW DID IT END?
00:38:44HOW DID IT ALL END?
00:38:46IT CULMINATED IN A STUNNING MILITARY VICTORY THAT FIRMLY
00:38:49ESTABLISHED THE WORLD'S MOST POWERFUL FORCE AT THE END OF THE 20TH CENTURY.
00:38:53BUT I HOPE I HAVE CONVEYED IS THAT IT WAS NOT GUARANTEED.
00:38:58IT HAPPENED BECAUSE GREAT LEADERS ENVISION WHAT THE ARMY
00:39:01WAS SUPPOSED TO DO, CONVINCED CONGRESS IT WAS MONEY WELL
00:39:05SPENT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [APPLAUSE]
00:39:23>> PLEASE JOIN ME. >> I WOULD BE GLAD TO.
00:39:28FOR THOSE -- DAWN: FOR THOSE OF
00:39:31YOU WHO HAVE QUESTIONS ON CARDS,
00:39:35THEY WILL TAKE THEM AND BRING THEM UP TO ME. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
00:39:39AND FOR AN AMAZING TALK.
00:39:42I MARKED ONE OF THE QUOTES IN THE BOOK, BUT YOU ALREADY TALKED ABOUT IT.
00:39:47YOU WROTE IT WAS NOT THE WEAPONS
00:39:50AND SUPER TECHNOLOGY THAT ONE THIS CONFLICT, BUT THE JUDGMENT,
00:39:54TRAINING, AND MOTIVATION OF THE SOLDIERS. AND YOU WENT OVER THAT.
00:39:59STEPHEN: YOU GET REPORTS.
00:40:02WE HAVE A LOT OF INTERVIEWS AFTER THE WAR. THESE ARE DONE AT ALL LEVELS.
00:40:10SOMETIMES THEY ARE DONE BY THE CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY.
00:40:14IT IS ALWAYS FUNNY TO READ A
00:40:16YOUNG SOLDIER LITERALLY DRIVING
00:40:20A TRUCK.
00:40:25FLOATING OVER THE TOP OF THE WAVES.
00:40:28WE TALKED TO THEM ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
00:40:31WHERE ARE YOU GOING, SON? I HAVE TO CATCH UP.
00:40:34I NEED MY FUEL. HE IS DRIVING THAT TRUCK AS FAST
00:40:37AND HARD AS HE CAN. THERE IS NO ONE ELSE IN THE
00:40:41TRUCK. IN SOME CASES, WE COULD TALK
00:40:45TECHNOLOGY, BUT THE TECHNOLOGY WAS NOT ALL THAT GOOD.
00:40:49THE FIRST ARMORED DIVISION, THE SECOND BRIGADE FIRST ARMORED
00:40:52DIVISION LITERALLY LAID OUT
00:40:53PIECES OF PAPER, CLOTH AND
00:40:57LITTLE LIGHTS BEHIND THEM, SO
00:41:00PEOPLE TRYING TO FIND OUT WHERE THEY WERE COULD FOLLOW THAT LINE.
00:41:04YOU WOULD HAVE TRUCKS JUST FOLLOWING THAT, MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT. WE'VE GOT TO GET THERE.
00:41:09THAT KIND OF STUFF, DOING THINGS
00:41:11WITHOUT ORDERS, AND AT SUCH
00:41:15CONTRAST TO WHAT YOU SEE WITH
00:41:16IRAQ -- WHEN THE MEDINA RIDGE
00:41:20GETS IN THE MEDINA BATTLE, WHEN
00:41:24MEDINA RIDGE TOOK PLACE, THEY
00:41:29HIT FIRST ARMOR, SECOND BRIGADE, OVER THE RISE.
00:41:33EVERYTHING WENT UP.
00:41:37THEY HAD NO SECURITY OUT IN FRONT. THEY WERE EATING LUNCH.
00:41:44THE FIRST ARMORED TOOK THEM RIGHT OUT.
00:41:48SAME THING. THE CREW OF THAT TANK, RIGHT
00:41:51AWAY IDENTIFIED TO HIS PLATOON
00:41:55LEADER. REPORTED TO THE COMPANY COMMANDER I HAVE TARGETS.
00:41:58THE COMPANY COMMANDER SAID EXECUTE.
00:42:01WITHIN A MINUTE OF FINDING THEM
00:42:04-- I CANNOT FIND MY KEYS WITHIN A MINUTE.
00:42:08THINK OF WHAT THESE GUYS DO.
00:42:11YOU HAVE TO GET INSIDE A THING.
00:42:13A TANK COMMANDER YELLS,
00:42:18GOVERNOR, SAVE HIM. TANK.
00:42:23THE GUNNER YELLS IDENTIFY. THE COMMANDER GOES FIRE.
00:42:28THE GUNNER GOES ON THE WAY. JUST LIKE THAT.
00:42:32THEY GET A MINUTE. THEY ARE TAKING OUT THREE ENEMY VEHICLES.
00:42:37THREE.
00:42:40AND THAT IS DONE BY E4'S AND E
00:42:45FIVES, JUNIOR OFFICERS, WHO ARE
00:42:48DOING THINGS -- I THINK THIS IS WHAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO DO. NOBODY TOLD ME.
00:42:53THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST AMAZING
00:42:56PARTS OF THE MODERN -- I AM SERIOUS. I HAVE BEEN STUDYING MILITARY
00:43:01HISTORY FOREVER.
00:43:02IN U.S. HISTORY, WE HAD TROUBLE
00:43:07LOOKING FAR BEYOND THE MEXICAN
00:43:09WAR IN 1826, AND THAT IS NOT THE
00:43:14BEST ONE WE'VE GOT.
00:43:15DAWN: WE WERE TALKING EARLIER
00:43:19ABOUT JUST THE YOUTH. MATT, WHO IS A VETERAN -- HE WAS
00:43:2320. YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT YOUNG GUYS.
00:43:26STEPHEN: MY GUNNER -- THIS IS A
00:43:321983. HE STAYED ON. STAFF SERGEANT.
00:43:35HE GOT OUT OF THE ARMY AND WENT BACK TO SCHOOL AND ENDED UP
00:43:39GOING TO THE WHARTON SCHOOL.
00:43:43AND THEN HE BECAME VICE PRESIDENT OF THE SWISS RAIL SYSTEM.
00:43:46THIS WAS THE KIND OF YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN THAT CAME ON ACTIVE
00:43:50DUTY DURING THOSE YEARS.
00:43:52MANY OF THEM WERE JUNIOR EXECUTIVES IN TRAINING.
00:43:56IT WAS CERTAINLY THE KIND OF PEOPLE THAT WOULD BE RUNNING
00:44:00THEIR OWN ELECTRIC COMPANY. SHARP PEOPLE. IT IS AT ALL THESE DIFFERENT
00:44:04LEVELS.
00:44:07DON: DO YOU THINK THAT THIS
00:44:09DECISIVE VICTORY RAISED THE BAR
00:44:12FOR US AS CITIZENS AND POLICYMAKERS? WHAT ARE WE EXPECTING NOW FROM THIS?
00:44:18STEPHEN: IT IS GOOD TO BE A HISTORIAN.
00:44:24I DON'T READ HISTORY MUCH PAST 1991, FOR GOOD REASON.
00:44:28MORE TODAY -- IF YOU SPENT ANY
00:44:32TIME STUDYING THIS
00:44:34RUSSIA-UKRAINE WAR, IT IS A
00:44:40COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ERA.
00:44:43THIS WAS THE LAST MAJOR WAR OF
00:44:46THE 20TH CENTURY, THE LAST MAJOR CONVENTIONAL WAR.
00:44:49BUT ALL THE THINGS WE KNOW --
00:44:53THIS IS THE LAST TIME WHEN
00:44:54MULTIPLE U.S. ARMY COPPERS ARE
00:44:58MOVING AROUND THE BATTLEFIELD.
00:45:00YOU HAVE ARMY COMMANDERS
00:45:02DIRECTLY IN THESE THINGS, AND TANKS ROLLING.
00:45:05EVERYTHING IS NOT PREARRANGED AND ALREADY DONE BY ELECTRONICS.
00:45:09I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS GOING TO BE.
00:45:12IT CERTAINLY RAISE THE STANDARDS FOR A TIME.
00:45:17I AM BORN IN 1950.
00:45:20SO ALL OF MY TEACHERS, ALL OF MY
00:45:25FAMILY, EVERYBODY I KNEW WAS A WORLD WAR II VETERAN.
00:45:27IF YOU WERE NOT, WE ASKED WHAT WAS WRONG WITH YOU.
00:45:31SO I GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL IN
00:45:361968. I'M ONLY 20 SOMETHING YEARS PAST THE END OF WORLD WAR II.
00:45:3935 YEARS LATER -- I HAVE TAUGHT
00:45:42FRESHMAN HISTORY.
00:45:46THEY DON'T KNOW.
00:45:49THAT IS SO LONG AGO. I DON'T KNOW.
00:45:56DAWN: AT THE GEORGE BUSH LIBRARY, WE LIKE TALKING ABOUT THE COALITION.
00:46:01HOW DID YOU INTERACT WITH THAT?
00:46:06STEPHEN: I WAS FIRST DIVISION HEADQUARTERS.
00:46:14MY VAN WAS NEXT TO THE GENERAL. WE SHARED A WALL. HE WOULD LOOK AT MY MAP.
00:46:20THE MAP WAS ALL RIGHT DEAR.
00:46:22WE WOULD GO BACK AND FORTH. I HAD MY RADIOS.
00:46:25HE HAD HIS OWN RADIOS. SOMETIMES WE ARE ON THE SAME
00:46:29FREQUENCY. SOMETIMES, WE ARE ON DIFFERENT FREQUENCIES.
00:46:34WE HAVE BRIGADES AND SEPARATE UNITS DOWN BELOW.
00:46:38ABOVE THAT WAS ALL SEVENTH QUARTER.
00:46:41GENERALLY, ANYTHING ABOVE
00:46:44GENERAL FRANKS, IT IS A
00:46:49DIFFERENT LEVEL OF ISOLATION.
00:46:53I DID NOT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON ABOVE HIM.
00:46:58DAWN: WE DID GET A QUESTION AND
00:47:00I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING FIRST.
00:47:02THAT IS THAT WE ARE A FEDERAL
00:47:05AGENCY, SO WE ARE A NONPARTISAN FEDERAL AGENCY.
00:47:09SO I AM GOING TO PREFACE THE QUESTION.
00:47:12THE QUESTION IS HOW DOES THE CURRENT SITUATION IN THE MIDDLE
00:47:16EAST COMPARED TO PRESIDENT BUSH'S LEADERSHIP IN THE WEEKS AND MONTHS PRECEDING DESERT
00:47:20STORM.
00:47:21STEPHEN: WELL, AS WE ALL KNOW AT
00:47:29THE BUSH CENTER, SECRETARY BAKER SPENT AN AWFUL LOT OF TIME OUT
00:47:33BUILDING A COALITION WITH THE
00:47:35FRENCH ARMY.
00:47:38THE FRENCH ARMY WAS ON THE SIDE OF MAYBE WE ARE PLAYERS AND MAYBE WE ARE NOT.
00:47:44THE FRENCH ARE VERY PROUD. I AM PRO-FRENCH.
00:47:47I LOVE THESE GUYS. THEY ARE INDEPENDENT.
00:47:50IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, THAT IS FINE.
00:47:55BUT THEY DECIDED BECAUSE OF SECRETARY BAKER AND PRESIDENT
00:47:58BUSH, THEY DECIDED IT WAS IN THEIR INTEREST TO BE PART OF THE TEAM.
00:48:02THE BRITISH HAD A VERY ROBUST TEAM.
00:48:06SO IT WAS A LARGE, EFFECTIVE COALITION. IT WAS EFFECTIVE.
00:48:11THERE ARE LITTLE THINGS YOU DID NOT NOTICE BACK THERE IN THE
00:48:15STATES.
00:48:16FOR EXAMPLE, WE PULLED INTO IRAQ
00:48:21, COMING OUT OF SAUDI ARABIA, WE
00:48:22PULLED INTO IRAQ AND TOOK BUSES
00:48:26INTO OUR STAGING AREAS. WE PULLED IN AT NIGHT.
00:48:31FRANKLY, SADDAM HUSSEIN AND HIS GANG, IF THEY HAD BEEN
00:48:34FIRST-CLASS SOLDIERS, I WOULD NOT BE HERE.
00:48:36THEY SHOULD HAVE TAKEN US ALL OUT. WE WERE A RAGTAG.
00:48:41POORLY ARMED. WE HAD NO IDEA WHERE WE WERE. PROVIDING SECURITY THAT NIGHT
00:48:45AND FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS
00:48:48WAS A SYRIAN UNIT.
00:48:51WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
00:48:55AN IRAQI T7 TWO AND A SYRIAN T7
00:48:59TO -- T72.
00:49:05THE FLAG, CAN YOU TELL THE DIFFERENCE? I CAN'T. THEY WERE WITH US.
00:49:09THEY WERE BITING SECURITY.
00:49:12ALL THESE COUNTRIES ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE PROCESS.
00:49:17THE MIDDLE EAST TODAY, EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED.
00:49:20THE IRAQIS ARE SHOOTING SCUD MISSILES AT ISRAEL.
00:49:26HALF OF SAUDI ARABIA DID NOT WANT US. THAT IS ANOTHER PART OF THE STORY.
00:49:30THAT WAS A VERY UNIQUE SET RUN
00:49:35BY THE POLITICAL AUTHORITIES, BY PRESIDENT BUSH. IT IS A DIFFERENT WORLD NOW.
00:49:45DAWN: THAT IS WHAT I LIKE ABOUT STUDYING HISTORY.
00:49:49YOU CAN TELL WHEN THE BUSH
00:49:49SCHOOL OF TEACHERS AND STUDENTS
00:49:53ARE SENDING HISTORIES -- OR SENDING QUESTIONS. THAT IS ALWAYS FUN.
00:49:57OUR TECH IS EVOLVING. HOW ARE OUR BROADER TRAINING
00:50:00PROGRAMS EVOLVING TO KEEP UP?
00:50:04STEPHEN: I AM A HISTORIAN. I HAVE CONTACTS WITH FRIENDS
00:50:08STILL ON ACTIVE DUTY.
00:50:09WE ARE AT LEAST -- IT IS NOT A
00:50:14TERM OF TIME. IT IS A TERM OF TECHNOLOGY.
00:50:16WE ARE ONE OR TWO GENERATIONS BEHIND WHAT IS TAKING PLACE IN UKRAINE.
00:50:23AND RUSSIA RIGHT NOW. WE ARE AT LEAST ONE OR TWO GENERATIONS BEHIND.
00:50:27THE RATE OF CHANGE IS SO FAST
00:50:32THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE SYSTEMS.
00:50:35THERE IS THE SYSTEM -- THE
00:50:39CHANGING OF THE PROCUREMENT SYSTEM. THE UNITED STATES CANNOT KEEP UP WITH THE RATE OF CHANGE THEY ARE
00:50:43DOING ON THE GROUND IN YOU RIGHT NOW, AND IN RUSSIA.
00:50:48AND BY THE WAY, PLACES LIKE IRAN. THE RUSSIANS ARE GETTING
00:50:52EQUIPMENT FROM IRAN. WHO ARE MAKING SOME OF THEIR
00:50:56DRONES. THE RATE OF CHANGE, I DON'T KNOW. THERE ARE SOME SMART PEOPLE UP THERE.
00:51:01DAWN: IS TANK WARFARE OBSOLETE, GIVEN DRONE WARFARE?
00:51:10STEPHEN: SORT OF LIKE AIRCRAFT CARRIERS.
00:51:14IN THE IN HERE? THERE YOU ARE.
00:51:18WE ARE NOT DOING THOSE LANDINGS ANYMORE. SORRY.
00:51:23IF WE LEAVE CALIFORNIA AND WE
00:51:24ARE GOING TO GO SOMEWHERE, THE CHINESE KNOW RIGHT AWAY.
00:51:29IF THEY REALLY WANT TO, THEY WILL HIT THAT VESSEL RIGHT
00:51:32OUTSIDE OF LONG BEACH. YOU ARE NOT GOING ACROSS THE
00:51:35OCEAN TO DO AN INVASION ANYMORE. THESE THINGS ARE CHANGING SO FAST.
00:51:41DAWN: THERE WAS NO DOT, DOT,
00:51:46DOT. MAYBE IT SOUNDED LIKE THAT.
00:51:49THE DRONE WARFARE? STEPHEN: IF YOU DON'T HAVE A
00:51:52TANK OR YOU HAVE SOME WEAK EQUIPMENT, HAVING A FEW TANKS IS PRETTY NICE.
00:51:57IF WE ARE GOING INTO NOT RUSSIA,
00:52:02NOT CHINA, BUT WE ARE GOING INTO
00:52:07AFRICA, GOING INTO CENTRAL AMERICA, IT IS NICE TO HAVE THE TANKS.
00:52:13WE ARE TALKING 6000 TANKS FACING
00:52:17SIX THOUSAND TANKS AND ARMORED FIGHTING VEHICLES, FACING EACH
00:52:20OTHER ON FEBRUARY 27.
00:52:25THAT IS A LOT OF VEHICLES. I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED IF WE
00:52:28EVER SEE THAT AGAIN. SAME THING WITH AIRCRAFT CARRIERS.
00:52:32IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER, IF YOU NEED TO PROJECT
00:52:36POWER, IT IS NICE. YOU DON'T WANT TO PARK THAT
00:52:38AIRCRAFT CARRIER ANYWHERE NEAR CHINA. IT WON'T LAST AN HOUR.
00:52:43IT DEPENDS ON THE ENEMY.
00:52:46I THINK THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE PROBABILITY OF LARGE-SCALE
00:52:50HEAVY COMBAT BETWEEN MAJOR
00:52:53COMPETITORS AS OF WORLD WAR II
00:52:58OR EVEN DESERT STORM? PEOPLE HAVE SAID THIS WAS GOING
00:53:01TO HAPPEN AGAIN BEFORE, BUT I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED TO SEE
00:53:04IT HAPPEN AGAIN, GIVEN THE NATURE OF MODERN TECHNOLOGY.
00:53:10DAWN: THIS QUESTION -- I'M DOING WORLD WAR II HISTORY.
00:53:13WHY DID IT TAKE SO LONG TO UPDATE THE MILITARY EQUIPMENT?
00:53:18WHAT, AMERICANS STARTED WITH WORLD WAR I TECHNOLOGY.
00:53:22STEPHEN: IF YOU WERE IN THE
00:53:24MIDDLE OF THAT CHANGE, THE RATE
00:53:29OF CHANGE WAS PHENOMENAL.
00:53:30IT IS NOT JUST -- WHEN YOU
00:53:33UPDATE A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT --
00:53:36LET'S SAY WE WANT TO UPDATE A TANK. YOU ARE NOT JUST MAKING A NEW TANK.
00:53:41YOU HAVE TO MAKE A SYSTEM THAT
00:53:43ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE REPAIR PARTS
00:53:45FOR WHEN THINGS BREAK DOWN.
00:53:48AND THEN YOU HAVE TO TRAIN THE MECHANICS.
00:53:52THEN, YOU HAVE TO DEVELOP THE TRAINING PROGRAM.
00:53:56THEN, YOU HAVE TO TROUBLESHOOT. IT JUST TAKES TIME.
00:53:59THE FACT THAT THEY DID THAT -- I
00:54:02REMEMBER IN 1977 I THINK WAS
00:54:05WHEN THE FIRST XM ONE TANKS ARRIVED.
00:54:08I THINK IT WAS ABOUT 1977.
00:54:13WE ARE ONLY TALKING A COUPLE OF YEARS.
00:54:17AND IT IS AMAZING. AND IT REALLY WENT VERY QUICK.
00:54:24IN TERMS OF CHANGE AND HOW QUICKLY IT HAPPENED, IT IS PHENOMENAL.
00:54:28WHAT IS INTERESTING IS OUR RATE OF CHANGE, WHICH WAS PHENOMENAL
00:54:32AT THAT TIME, AND WHAT IS
00:54:36HAPPENING NOW IN TERMS OF CHANGE WITH THE WHOLE DRONE THING.
00:54:40PERSONNEL CHARACTERS. EVERYTHING IS CHANGING SO FAST.
00:54:46EVERY MONTH, NEW TECHNOLOGICAL CHANGES.
00:54:49IT WAS VERY FAST FOR THE END OF THE 20TH CENTURY. IT DOES NOT MATCH TODAY.
00:54:57DAWN: IT IS MORE THAN THE TECHNOLOGY CHANGING.
00:55:00IT IS THE LOGISTICS OF DESIGN.
00:55:14STEPHEN: EVERYTHING WE HAD WAS BIG. THE STUFF WAS THE SIZE OF THIS
00:55:18TABLE TOP. MOST OF THE CHANGES ARE INCREMENTAL.
00:55:21THE WIRE HEADS, THE COMPUTER GUYS WHO ARE PLAYING WITH THESE
00:55:25THINGS, THEY ONLY HAVE TO MAKE MINOR CHANGES IN THE WHOLE PROCESS.
00:55:29THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT BETWEEN
00:55:30AN M-16 AND AN A3 AND AN M1 --
00:55:38TOTALLY DIFFERENT INTERNAL SYSTEMS. YOU UP TO TRAIN THOSE PEOPLE UP
00:55:41AND IT TAKES TIME. THE TOOLSETS. IT GOES ON AND ON.
00:55:46TODAY, THE RATE OF CHANGE YOU ARE SEEING IN THE CURRENT
00:55:49CONFLICT -- THIS IS WHY I STAY IN HISTORY.
00:55:52DAWN: WE HAVE A COMMENT AND THIS
00:55:56SEEMS IMPORTANT, SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE I READ IT WELL.
00:55:59THE TRAINING WE ACCOMPLISHED AND ENDURED AT THE NTC WAS AWESOME.
00:56:03AS AN ARMY AND OP CORPS OFFICER,
00:56:06I THINK THIS WAS THE DECIDING FACTOR THAT MADE A HUGE DIFFERENCE.
00:56:10WITH THE UKRAINE-RUSSIAN WAR, THINGS HAVE CHANGED. WHAT DO YOU THINK?
00:56:15STEPHEN: THE DIFFERENCES WE LEFT
00:56:20SOUTH EAST ASIA -- SOME GOT TO
00:56:26GO TO VIETNAM. SOME GOT TO GO TO GERMANY.
00:56:29WE DID NOT DO MUCH CHANGING, YOU
00:56:35KNOW?
00:56:40DON: I PUT IT AT THE END NOW.
00:56:43WITH THE UKRAINE, RUSSIA WAR. THINGS HAVE CHANGED. WHAT DO YOU THINK?
00:56:47STEPHEN: PART OF THAT CHANGES ON THE BATTLEFIELD.
00:56:51IF YOU GO TO ANY WAR -- THIS IS WHAT MAKES THE DESERT STORM THING SO AMAZING.
00:56:55IT WAS DONE IN PEACE.
00:57:00WE DID ALL KINDS OF MODIFICATIONS OF EQUIPMENT
00:57:03DURING WORLD WAR II AT A VERY RAPID RATE. BUT IT WENT QUICK.
00:57:08BUT WE WERE UNDER FIRE. IF YOU STUDY ANY OF THESE
00:57:11CONFLICTS -- WORLD WAR I, WORLD
00:57:12WAR II -- BEFORE THE
00:57:17FRANCO-PRUSSIAN WAR.
00:57:18THE FRENCH WASHED THE PRUSSIANS
00:57:23USING THEIR NEEDLE GUN AGAINST THE AUSTRIANS. WE WANT SOME OF THAT.
00:57:26IN A COUPLE OF YEARS, THEY CAME OUT WITH A BETTER REPEATING
00:57:30RIFLE. THEY DID NOT KNOW HOW TO USE THEM, BUT THEY CAME UP WITH THEM REALLY QUICK.
00:57:36AND A LITTLE MACHINE GUN. THEY DID THAT BECAUSE THEY WERE
00:57:39FACING MORE AND THEY KNEW THAT. WE DID NOT DO THAT IN THAT
00:57:43PERIOD OF TIME. THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT SO DRAMATIC.
00:57:49THE WHOLE STORY IS WE FOCUS ON THE WAR PEACE AND THE FIGHTING PIECE.
00:57:56THAT PIECE HAD ALREADY BEEN DONE. WE HAD ALREADY FIGURED THAT OUT.
00:58:01I DON'T KNOW OF ANYONE WHO HAD
00:58:03ANY REAL SURPRISES DURING OUR
00:58:06WAR WITH IRAQ, EXCEPT THAT THE
00:58:13IRAQIS WERE NOT MORE SUCCESSFUL.
00:58:16ACROSS THE BOARD, WE EXPECTED THEM TO HIT THEIR TARGETS.
00:58:19EVERYTHING ELSE, WE HAD ALREADY WORKED FOR AT THE NATIONAL TRAINING CENTER.
00:58:24WE HAD DONE THAT. WE HAD PRACTICED.
00:58:27WHEN THEY STARTED FIRING AT
00:58:30RANGE -- A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE, HIS BOOK IS COMING OUT.
00:58:35IT IS CALLED BANDIT. IT IS ABOUT A TANK COMPANY IN
00:58:38DESERT STORM. A TANK COMPANY COMMANDER.
00:58:42HE WRITES ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN A TANK CREW.
00:58:45AND IT WAS AUTOMATIC. THERE WAS NO THINKING ABOUT IT. IT JUST HAPPENED.
00:58:51AND NOBODY ELSE IS DOING THAT.
00:58:54THEY GET TO DESERT STORM. THEY HAD TO DEAL WITH THE ENVIRONMENT.
00:59:02THERE WERE JUST SENDING US LITTLE PAMPHLETS WHAT IT WAS
00:59:06LIKE TO BE THE AFRICA CORE IN
00:59:091940 ONE IN NORTH AFRICA. THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE SENDING US.
00:59:12WE HAD NO IDEA WHAT IT WAS GOING TO BE FIGHTING LIKE. NO IDEA.
00:59:18IT IS NOT LIKE TODAY WHERE FOR A
00:59:20WHILE THEY WERE HAVING FUN TRIPS.
00:59:24IT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING.
00:59:27THEY ARRIVED AND THEY KNEW WHAT TO DO.
00:59:30DAWN: WE ARE AT A TIME, BUT THERE IS ONE MORE QUESTION. WE WILL ASK ONE MORE.
00:59:36JUST THE WAY RUSSIAN SOLDIERS
00:59:40AND STAFF SEEM TO BE ACTING IN
00:59:42UKRAINE TODAY MIMIC IRAQIS IN 1991?
00:59:47STEPHEN: THEY HAVE NOT CHANGED
00:59:51SINCE 1943. I USED THE SOVIET THING MORE THAN ONCE.
00:59:58I USE THAT SOVIET THING MORE THAN ONCE BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE SAME ARMY.
01:00:05THEY ARE THE SAME ARMY.
01:00:13A LITTLE SOMETHING FOR THE MUSEUM.
01:00:16THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME. THIS HAS BEEN A BLAST.
01:00:22DAWN: WE ARE SO GRATEFUL FOR YOU TO ENDURE SERIES. WE ARE REALLY THANKFUL.
01:00:31STEPHEN: THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING. YOU HAVE OTHER THINGS TO DO.
01:00:36[CAPTIONS COPYRIGHT NATIONAL CABLE SATELLITE CORP. 2026] [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS
01:00:39CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY. VISIT NCICAP.ORG] >> YOU ARE WATCHING CSPAN3 -- DEMOCRACY UNFILTERED.
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