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00:01:11STARTING NOW, WE VISIT HYDE PARK IN NEW YORK FOR THE ROOSEVELT
00:01:14READING FESTIVAL. YOU'LL LEARN ABOUT HOLLYWOOD'S
00:01:17ROLE IN WORLD WAR TWO. FDR MENTORS AND THE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN AMERICAN
00:01:22PRESIDENTS AND THE DALAI LAMA. UP FIRST, A CONVERSATION ON
00:01:26ELEANOR ROOSEVELT'S CHRISTIAN FAITH.
00:01:29WELL, GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE,
00:01:32AND WELCOME TO THE ANNUAL ROOSEVELT READING FESTIVAL.
00:01:35MY NAME IS JEFF URBAN. I AM THE EDUCATION DIRECTOR HERE
00:01:39AT THE ROOSEVELT PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY MUSEUM.
00:01:41ON BEHALF OF THE ENTIRE LIBRARY STAFF AND OUR OUR DIRECTOR, BILL
00:01:45HARRIS, WELCOME. THIS IS OUR ANNUAL READING
00:01:51FESTIVAL. AND FDR PLANNED FOR THE LIBRARY
00:01:53TO BE THE PREMIER RESEARCH INSTITUTION FOR STUDYING THE
00:01:57ENTIRE ROOSEVELT ERA. AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ROOSEVELT
00:02:02AROUND HERE, WE TALK ABOUT FRANKLIN AND ELEANOR IN THE
00:02:04ROOSEVELT ERA.
00:02:06AND TODAY'S AUTHORS REFLECT THE
00:02:09WIDE VARIETY OF RESEARCH DONE
00:02:11HERE AND AT SIMILAR INSTITUTIONS
00:02:13THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. SO LET ME JUST QUICKLY GO OVER
00:02:17THE FORMAT. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE OUR SPEAKER
00:02:21TALK FOR ABOUT 30 OR 40 MINUTES OR SO. AND THEN IT'S GOING TO BE
00:02:25FOLLOWED BY ABOUT A TEN MINUTE QUESTION AND ANSWER PERIOD. SO I WANT TO WELCOME OUR FRIENDS
00:02:30FROM FROM C-SPAN. AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE INTERESTED IN HEARING THE
00:02:33QUESTIONS THAT YOU ASK. SO PLEASE, BEFORE YOU ASK YOUR QUESTION, COME TO THE MICROPHONE
00:02:37SO THAT WE CAN GET IT. YOU KNOW, BROADCAST AND COLLECT IT.
00:02:42THERE. THE AUTHORS WILL THEN MOVE TO
00:02:45THEIR TABLES DOWN BY THE NEW DEAL STORE, WHERE YOU CAN HAVE
00:02:48YOUR BOOK, HOW YOU CAN PURCHASE A BOOK AND HAVE IT SIGNED.
00:02:51PLEASE ALLOW THE AUTHORS TO TO
00:02:54WORK THEIR WAY DOWN THE HALLWAY.
00:02:56VERY OFTEN THE PEOPLE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, JUMP ON AT THE DOOR
00:03:00HERE AND THEY DON'T GET A CHANCE TO GET DOWN TO WHERE THEY NEED
00:03:02TO GET TO.
00:03:06SO, AGAIN, WE'RE JUST DELIGHTED TO HAVE YOU ALL HERE.
00:03:08AND OUR FRIENDS FROM C-SPAN.
00:03:11SO I'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE DON
00:03:13MITCHELL, WHO TEACHES AT FORDHAM UNIVERSITY.
00:03:17AND I JUST WAS TALKING WITH HIM. I MY SON JUST GRADUATED FROM
00:03:19FORDHAM ABOUT A YEAR OR SO AGO,
00:03:21AND HE HAS PREVIOUSLY TAUGHT AT THE GENERAL THEOLOGICAL
00:03:25SEMINARY, PRINCETON THEOLOGICAL
00:03:28SEMINARY AND MANHATTAN COLLEGE. HE BEGAN HIS CAREER AS A
00:03:32NEWSPAPER REPORTER, LATER BECOMING A PUBLIC INTEREST
00:03:35ADVOCATE ON BEHALF OF CLEAN
00:03:37WATER, GAY RIGHTS AND ECONOMIC JUSTICE.
00:03:41MR. MITCHELL IS THE AUTHOR OF ELEANOR ROOSEVELT'S NIGHTLY
00:03:43PRAYER, A RELIGIOUS LIFE OF THE
00:03:46FIRST LADY OF THE WORLD AND
00:03:48TREAD THE CITY STREETS AGAIN. FRANCES PERKINS SHARES HER
00:03:52THEOLOGY, WHICH I JUST FINISHED READING. IT'S WONDERFUL.
00:03:55AND HE HAS CONTRIBUTED TO A
00:03:57PROMISE TO ALL GENERATIONS EDITED BY KIERSTEN DOWNEY AND
00:04:01CHRISTOPHER BRISSETTE AS WELL AS
00:04:03REBUILDING COMMUNION. WHO PAYS THE PRICE?
00:04:07ADDED IT BY PETER FRANCIS.
00:04:09HIS WORK HAS APPEARED IN THE CHRISTIAN CENTURY.
00:04:13THE LIVING CHURCH, THE ANGLICAN THEOLOGICAL REVIEW.
00:04:16HE IS A GRADUATE OF THE GENERAL THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY OF THE
00:04:20EPISCOPAL CHURCH AND SERVES AS
00:04:22VICE PRESIDENT OF THE PRINCETON RESEARCH FORUM.
00:04:25HE LIVES IN PRINCETON, NEW YORK, BUT HE'S HERE WITH US TODAY.
00:04:28PLEASE WELCOME DON MITCHELL.
00:04:39THANK YOU, JEFF, AND THANK YOU
00:04:41TO ALL OF YOU FOR COMING TODAY. AND JUST THANK YOU TO FDR FOR
00:04:45HAVING THE VISION TO CREATE THIS
00:04:49LIBRARY. I BEGAN MY RESEARCH MANY YEARS
00:04:52AGO WHEN THIS CENTER WASN'T EVEN
00:04:54HERE, AND IT WAS MY FIRST TIME
00:04:58IN A PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY. AND IT WAS PRETTY IMPRESSIVE,
00:05:02VERY GRATEFUL THAT THAT IT'S HERE.
00:05:04SO THE THE THING THAT USUALLY
00:05:07HAPPENS WHEN I MENTION THAT I'VE WRITTEN A BOOK ABOUT ELEANOR
00:05:11ROOSEVELT'S RELIGIOUS LIFE IS
00:05:13PEOPLE SAY, I DIDN'T REALIZE SHE WAS RELIGIOUS.
00:05:17AND THE OTHER THING THAT THEY USUALLY SAY IS, WOULDN'T YOU
00:05:19RATHER TALK ABOUT SPIRITUAL QUALITY RATHER THAN RELIGION?
00:05:23AND THE ANSWER IS YES. SHE WAS RELIGIOUS AND NO, I
00:05:26DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT SPIRITUALITY BECAUSE DISCUSSIONS
00:05:30OF SPIRITUALITY MISS THE
00:05:32COMMUNAL DEMAND OF RELIGION.
00:05:34AND THAT I THINK, IS VERY
00:05:36IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTANDING.
00:05:39ELEANOR ROOSEVELT IS THAT SHE
00:05:40CERTAINLY WAS A GREAT PERSON,
00:05:43BUT SHE WAS EDUCATED AND NURTURED AND FORMED IN
00:05:49CONSCIENCE. AND HER SENSE OF DUTY TO THE
00:05:52COMMUNITY BY A SPECIFIC RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY.
00:05:55AND SO I WANT TO TELL YOU A
00:05:57LITTLE BIT ABOUT ELEANOR'S
00:06:00ORIGINS IN HER HER NATIVE CHURCH AND THEN ALSO TELL YOU A LITTLE
00:06:04BIT MORE ABOUT THE CHURCH AND
00:06:06WHAT IT STOOD FOR IN THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY.
00:06:10IN FACT, WHAT IT STILL STANDS FOR TODAY. BUT I THINK IT WAS VERY IT WAS
00:06:14VERY SIGNIFICANT. THE OTHER THING THAT I ENCOUNTER
00:06:18IN THE LITERATURE IS BIOGRAPHERS
00:06:22WHO SAY EITHER THAT SHE WAS NOT
00:06:24VERY RELIGIOUS OR THAT SHE OVERCAME A NARROW RELIGIOUS
00:06:29UPBRINGING. AND BOTH OF THOSE
00:06:32CHARACTERIZATIONS ARE INCORRECT.
00:06:34THERE WAS NOTHING NARROW ABOUT HER UPBRINGING.
00:06:38SHE WAS BAPTIZED AT CALVARY
00:06:40EPISCOPAL CHURCH IMMEDIATELY AFTER BIRTH IN 1884.
00:06:45THIS IS A CHURCH ON PARK AVENUE IN NEW YORK CITY.
00:06:48AND THE PRIEST WHO BAPTIZED HER
00:06:50WAS HENRY SATTERLEE, WHO LATER
00:06:55BECAME THE BISHOP OF WASHINGTON. AND I'LL TELL YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHY THAT'S
00:06:58SIGNIFICANT IN A MINUTE.
00:06:59BUT HER GODFATHER WAS HER
00:07:02FATHER'S ELDER BROTHER, THEODORE
00:07:04ROOSEVELT, JR, WHO WE ALL KNOW
00:07:07AS TEDDY.
00:07:08SO SHE HAD CERTAINLY A VERY
00:07:13SOPHISTICATED KIND OF COMPANY AT HER BAPTISM.
00:07:17SHE THEN WAS WAS RAISED IN THIS CHURCH.
00:07:20NOW, HENRY YATES SATTERLEE WAS A
00:07:22PROMINENT CLERGYMAN, AND HE WAS
00:07:26AN AUTHOR, A PUBLISHED AUTHOR. AND ONE OF THE THINGS HE WROTE
00:07:30WAS THE SUNDAY SCHOOL CURRICULUM. AND THAT'S VERY HELPFUL BECAUSE
00:07:33IF YOU LOOK AT HIS SERMONS, YOU
00:07:35CAN SEE A LOT OF THE INFLUENCES
00:07:39THAT MIGHT HAVE AFFECTED ELEANOR ROOSEVELT.
00:07:42HOWEVER, SHE PROBABLY DIDN'T HEAR THOSE SERMONS. SHE'S A LITTLE GIRL.
00:07:45SHE'S IN SUNDAY SCHOOL. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SATTERLEE DID IS HE WROTE A
00:07:49SUNDAY SCHOOL CURRICULUM AND IT SURVIVES.
00:07:52IT'S BEEN PRESERVED BY PROJECT
00:07:55CANTERBURY, WHICH IS A WONDERFUL COLLABORATION OF VOLUNTEERS WHO
00:07:59PRESERVE A LOT OF ORIGINAL
00:08:02DOCUMENTS IN CHURCH HISTORY, NOT JUST THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH, BUT
00:08:05THE ANGLICAN COMMUNION, WHICH IS THE WIDER FELLOWSHIP OF CHURCHES
00:08:09THAT DESCEND FROM THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND. ONE OF SATURDAY.
00:08:12LEE'S EMPHASES, AND IN FACT IT
00:08:15WAS A MAJOR EMPHASIS, WAS THAT
00:08:17THE VOCATION OF THE CHRISTIAN, THE CALLING OF THE CHRISTIAN, IS
00:08:21TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY.
00:08:23AND IF WE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ELEANOR ROOSEVELT, WE KNOW THAT
00:08:26SHE CERTAINLY LIVED OUT THAT VOCATION.
00:08:31NOW, SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NICE THAT
00:08:34HE THOUGHT THAT WAY, BUT THAT DOESN'T TELL US A LOT ABOUT THE
00:08:38MILIEU OR THE ENVIRONMENT THAT SHE SHE WAS IN.
00:08:41IT TELLS US SOMETHING ABOUT THE
00:08:43THE PHILOSOPHER FICKLE DISPOSITION, PERHAPS.
00:08:47BUT CALVARY CHURCH WAS VERY INTERESTING BECAUSE IT WAS A
00:08:50LEADER IN WHAT WE CALL SOCIAL MISSION.
00:08:54SO IT OPERATED HOMELESS SHELTER.
00:08:57IT HAD A WORKING MEN'S CLUB THAT
00:09:00HAD 300 MEMBERS AND A DAYCARE CENTER FOR WORKING MOTHERS.
00:09:05IT HAD RECREATIONAL FACILITIES FOR YOUTH.
00:09:07IT HAD ALL KINDS OF OF SOCIAL
00:09:11PROGRAMS. SO MANY, IN FACT, THAT THEY HAD TO BUILD A SEPARATE BUILDING
00:09:15CALLED THE MISSIONS HOUSE, WHICH
00:09:17WAS LARGE ENOUGH THAT WHEN THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH DEVELOPED ITS
00:09:21NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS, THEY MOVED INTO CALVARY'S MISSION HOUSE. AND THAT WAS THE FIRST NATIONAL
00:09:26HEADQUARTERS OF THE THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH.
00:09:30NOW, AGAIN, YOU MIGHT SAY, WELL, SHE WAS A LITTLE GIRL, SO SHE
00:09:32DIDN'T REALLY PERHAPS KNOW ALL THAT MUCH ABOUT IT.
00:09:35WELL, SHE DID, BECAUSE HER
00:09:37FAMILY WAS VERY INVOLVED IN IT.
00:09:39AND SHE RECOLLECTED A SITUATION
00:09:42WHERE HER FATHER TOOK HER TO
00:09:46VOLUNTEER IN A HOMELESS SHELTER
00:09:48FOR NEWSPAPER BOYS WHEN SHE WAS SIX YEARS OLD.
00:09:51SHE HELPED HER FATHER SERVE A THANKSGIVING DINNER, AND HER
00:09:54FATHER EXPLAINED TO HER WHY THIS SHELTER EXISTED.
00:09:58NEWSPAPER BOYS EARN THEIR OWN LIVING, BUT IT WAS NOT ENOUGH
00:10:02MONEY TO HAVE SHELTER IN NEW YORK CITY. EVEN IN THOSE DAYS WHEN RENTS
00:10:05WERE A LITTLE BIT CHEAPER. BUT PROPORTIONALLY, MAYBE NOT.
00:10:09NOT SO MUCH. SO ELEANOR'S GRANDFATHER,
00:10:13THEODORE ROOSEVELT SENIOR, HAD
00:10:15FORMED A SHELTER FOR THE NEWSIES
00:10:17AFTER THEY HAD A PLACE TO LIVE,
00:10:20AND THEY HAD HAD SOME OPPORTUNE
00:10:24RETREAT TO REST AND RELAX. THEY ALSO ORGANIZED A UNION AND THEY WENT ON STRIKE AND THEY
00:10:28BROUGHT JOSEPH PULITZER TO HIS KNEES.
00:10:32SO THE THING IS THAT ELEANOR HAD THAT KIND OF THING IN HER BACKGROUND.
00:10:35HER AUNTS AND UNCLES TOOK HER TO SING CHRISTMAS CAROLS IN A
00:10:39HOMELESS SHELTER IN HELL'S KITCHEN. SAME THING.
00:10:41THE BOWERY MISSION, THAT SORT OF THING.
00:10:44AND SHE SHE WROTE ABOUT IT. SHE SAID THERE WAS NEVER REALLY
00:10:47A POINT IN HER LIFE WHERE SHE DID NOT KNOW THAT THERE WERE
00:10:51PEOPLE LESS FORTUNATE THAN SHE
00:10:53WAS VERY CLOSE AT HAND. AND IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT
00:10:56THE GEOGRAPHY OF OF NEW YORK
00:10:59CITY GEOGRAPHY AND MANHATTAN,
00:11:01ELEANOR GREW UP IN MURRAY HILL,
00:11:03WHICH IS WALKING DISTANCE FROM HELL'S KITCHEN.
00:11:06SO THE THE NEED THAT SHE WAS
00:11:09AWARE OF WAS VERY CLOSE IN HAND.
00:11:11AND HER FAMILY WAS VERY INVOLVED
00:11:13IN VARIOUS EFFORTS TO TO TRY TO MEET THAT NEED.
00:11:18NOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED AND THIS IS WHERE I
00:11:21THINK THE HISTORIANS ARE CORRECT
00:11:23WHEN THEY SAY SHE HAD SOMETHING TO OVERCOME.
00:11:25IT WASN'T REALLY HER RELIGIOUS HERITAGE THAT SHE HAD TO
00:11:29OVERCOME. SHE HAD TO OVERCOME THIS TRAGIC
00:11:33LOSS OF HER PARENTS AT A VERY YOUNG, YOUNG AGE.
00:11:35AND THE LOSS OF A YOUNGER BROTHER. IT ALL HAPPENED WITHIN THE SPACE
00:11:40OF TWO YEARS AT THE AGE OF EIGHT, ELEANOR IS MOTHER DIED
00:11:43AND A WHOLE ROOSEVELT DIED.
00:11:47AND WE HAVE DIPHTHERIA.
00:11:50AND BY PRIOR RANGE MEANT HER
00:11:54GRANDMOTHER HULL, TOOK CUSTODY OF HER AND HER TWO YOUNGER
00:11:57BROTHERS. AND IN ABOUT 18 MONTHS, THE
00:12:01MIDDLE CHILD ALSO DIED.
00:12:03HISTORIANS DISAGREE OVER WHETHER IT WAS ALSO DIPHTHERIA OR IT
00:12:07MIGHT HAVE BEEN TUBERCULOSIS. BUT ANYWAY, IT WAS A TRAUMA.
00:12:10AND THEN AT THE END OF THAT SAME
00:12:14YEAR, ELEANOR, HIS FATHER DIED. YOU KNOW, ILLNESS FATHER WAS
00:12:17ALREADY IN AND OUT OF SANATORIUMS.
00:12:19HE WAS HAVING A LOT OF PROBLEMS
00:12:21WITH ALCOHOL AND PRESCRIPTION
00:12:24DRUG ADDICTION.
00:12:26AND HE HAD HAD FROM THE TIME HE
00:12:28WAS IN SECONDARY SCHOOL, HE HAD HAD FAINTING SPELLS AND
00:12:32SEIZURES, WHICH AS A NON MEDICAL
00:12:34PERSON LOOKS TO ME LIKE EPILEPSY.
00:12:37I HAD A COUSIN WHO HAD A FORM OF EPILEPSY.
00:12:41THEY ACTUALLY CONSIDERED THAT THERE WAS NEVER A DIAGNOSIS OF
00:12:45THAT. AND IN FACT, THERE WAS NEVER REALLY A DIAGNOSIS FOR WHAT HIS
00:12:47PROBLEM WAS.
00:12:49BUT HE HAD THE ROOSEVELT
00:12:51PRESCRIPTION FOR AILMENTS, AND IT WAS THE PRESCRIPTION FOR
00:12:55TEDDY WHO HAD ASTHMA. AND IT WAS EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, AS YOU GET OUT AND, YOU KNOW,
00:12:59ROUGH IT UP, YOU KNOW, AND YOU GET OUTDOORS AND, YOU KNOW, LIVE THE LIFE, THAT KIND OF THING.
00:13:04AND HE HAD DONE THAT. ELLIOT HAD DONE THAT.
00:13:06AND IN FACT, WHEN HE WAS
00:13:08COURTING ELEANOR, HIS MOTHER, HE
00:13:10WAS IN A THEY WERE PLANNING A
00:13:12STUNT FOR A RODEO, WHICH WAS A
00:13:16AN AMATEUR RODEO IS A CHARITY THING, YOU KNOW, AND HE WAS
00:13:21THROWN FROM THE HORSE AND BROKE
00:13:22HIS LEG AND IT DIDN'T HEAL
00:13:25PROPERLY AND THEY HAD TO BREAK IT AGAIN. AND IT STILL DIDN'T HEAL
00:13:29PROPERLY. AND HE WAS IN PHYSICAL PAIN FOR
00:13:32THE REST OF HIS LIFE. AND WHAT HE STARTED DOING AND IT
00:13:36WAS SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE IN HIS CIRCLES WAS HE STARTED
00:13:38MEDICATING IT WITH ALCOHOL AND THEN EVENTUALLY IT WAS
00:13:42PRESCRIPTION MORPHINE. AND PRESCRIPTION LAUDANUM.
00:13:44AND HE REALLY BECAME KIND OF A BASKET CASE.
00:13:48SO HE WAS IN AND OUT OF ELEANOR,
00:13:50HIS LIFE TOWARD HER, HIS HIS
00:13:54LAST YEARS. BUT HE WROTE TO HER CONSTANTLY
00:13:57AND HE WAS THE ONE MAJOR SOURCE
00:14:02OF AFFIRMATION THAT SHE HAD AS A CHILD BECAUSE HE THOUGHT SHE WAS
00:14:04JUST THE MOST FASCINATING LITTLE GIRL THAT HAD EVER BEEN BORN.
00:14:08AND HE TOOK HER ON ALL KINDS OF ADVENTURES.
00:14:12WHEN I SAY SHE DID NOT HAVE TO
00:14:14OVERCOME A NARROW UPBRINGING, BY THE TIME SHE WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD, SHE'D BE IN THE EUROPE
00:14:18THREE TIMES AND IN FACT, HER
00:14:21FATHER HAD TAKEN HER TO SEE THE
00:14:23RUINS OF MOUNT VESUVIUS AND HAD
00:14:26IMPRESSED ON HER THAT THESE WERE REAL PEOPLE, THAT THIS HAPPENED
00:14:31TO. HE TOOK HER ON A GONDOLA RIDE AND SANG IN ITALIAN WITH THE
00:14:35GONDOLIERS, THAT SORT OF THING. SO SHE ACTUALLY HAD A FAIRLY
00:14:39SOPHISTICATED FIRST EIGHT YEARS OF HER HER CHILDHOOD, BUT HAVING
00:14:41TO LIVE WITH HER GRANDMOTHER CHANGED THINGS A LOT.
00:14:45AND A LOT OF THE HISTORIAN SAYS SHE HAD A MISERABLE CHILDHOOD.
00:14:49I THINK THAT'S TRUE AFTER THE AGE OF EIGHT.
00:14:52I THINK BEFOREHAND IT WAS ACTUALLY PRETTY COOL. AT LEAST THAT'S HOW SHE REFLECTS ON IT.
00:14:57WHEN SHE WRITES ABOUT IT. BUT THE CHANGE IN HER CHURCH
00:15:00LIFE WAS ACTUALLY NOT THAT SIGNIFICANT.
00:15:04GRANDMOTHER HALL WAS A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH OF THE INCARNATION ON
00:15:07MADISON AVENUE, AND LIKE
00:15:09CALVARY, IT ALSO HAD HUGE SOCIAL
00:15:13MISSION ACTIVITIES. AND IN FACT, THEY EVEN HIRED A
00:15:16DOCTOR AND NURSE AND CREATED A
00:15:18MEDICAL CLINIC AND HAD 12,000 PATIENT VISITS.
00:15:22EXCUSE ME, 2000 PATIENT VISITS
00:15:25IN A SINGLE YEAR. SO AND THAT WAS ALL AT THE
00:15:29EXPENSE OF THE OF THE PARISH ON
00:15:31THE FAMILY WAS VERY INVOLVED IN
00:15:34THIS KIND OF SOCIAL MISSION.
00:15:36AND IN FACT, ELEANOR'S FATHER
00:15:39WAS ASKED BY TRINITY CHURCH,
00:15:42WALL STREET, TO JOIN WITH FDR,
00:15:45HIS ELDER BROTHER, JAMES
00:15:48ROOSEVELT, WHO WAS HIS ELDER HALF BROTHER. THE TWO MEN WERE FIFTH COUSINS
00:15:52AND THEY KNEW EACH OTHER AND JAMES ROOSEVELT, ELLIOTT
00:15:57ROOSEVELT WERE ASKED TO FORM AN ORGANIZATION CALLED TRINITY
00:16:00CHURCH ASSOCIATES, WHICH
00:16:02PROMOTED SOCIAL MISSION AND HELPED PARISHES RAISE THE MONEY
00:16:05AND PUT TOGETHER THESE VARIOUS
00:16:08PROJECTS. SO IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE FAMILY WAS REALLY VERY, VERY
00:16:11COMMITTED TO. AND ELEANOR KIND OF STEPS INTO IT.
00:16:15YOU KNOW, IT'S IT'S PART OF HER LIFE. SO HER HER TRANSITION TO THE
00:16:19CHURCH OF THE INCARNATION WAS
00:16:21NOT REALLY A DIFFERENT KIND OF
00:16:24ENVIRONMENT. IT WAS VERY CONSISTENT WITH WHAT
00:16:27SHE ALREADY ALREADY KNEW.
00:16:29ONE THING THAT WAS IS INTERESTING ABOUT INCARNATION IS
00:16:33IT HAD A GREAT DEAL OF ARTISTIC
00:16:38ADORNMENT. LOUIS SAN GAUDIN, THE BROTHER OF
00:16:40AUGUST, SAN GORDON, HAD SCULPTURE THERE.
00:16:44THERE'S STAINED GLASS FROM WILLIAM MORRIS. ALL KINDS OF WONDERFUL THINGS
00:16:48THERE. AND I THINK THAT REALLY FED
00:16:53ELEANOR'S SOUL IN A LOT OF WAYS.
00:16:55THIS THIS VISUAL BEAUTY. AND OF COURSE, ONE OF THE OTHER
00:16:59THINGS THAT FED HER SOUL WAS HER LIFE IN THE COUNTRY.
00:17:02THE FAMILY HAD AN ESTATE IN
00:17:05TIVOLI, AND THAT WAS REALLY A
00:17:08BREATH OF FRESH AIR TO BE OUT IN TIVOLI.
00:17:12AND SO SHE ENJOYED HER SUMMERS THERE. BUT DURING THE WINTERS SHE WAS
00:17:15IN IN MANHATTAN, YOU KNOW, SHE
00:17:20EXCUSE ME, SHE DID NOT GO TO SCHOOL. SHE WAS TUTORED.
00:17:23AND THAT ALSO, I THINK, WAS PART
00:17:25OF HER MISERY DURING HER EARLY
00:17:27TEENAGE YEARS BECAUSE ELEANOR
00:17:29WAS AN EXTROVERT.
00:17:32SHE REALLY LOVED TO BE AROUND PEOPLE.
00:17:34AND WITH THE FATHER THAT SHE HAD. I MEAN, THAT WAS REALLY KIND OF
00:17:38ENCOURAGED, YOU KNOW, TO BE
00:17:39GREGARIOUS AND LIFE OF THE PARTY KIND OF THING.
00:17:43AND ELEANOR WAS TUTORED. THERE WERE OTHER GIRLS IN HER
00:17:46CLASSES, BUT THEY WERE HANDPICKED BY HER GRANDMOTHER AND BY OTHER PARENTS.
00:17:50THAT GRANDMOTHER WHOLE KNEW.
00:17:53BUT EVEN SO, SHE WAS REALLY
00:17:57DEVELOPING A KIND OF SOCIAL
00:17:59CONSCIENCE THAT COMES THROUGH. AND SOME OF THE THINGS THAT SHE
00:18:04WROTE DURING THAT PERIOD WHEN SHE WAS ABOUT 12 OR 13 YEARS
00:18:07OLD, SHE WROTE THIS ESSAY THAT SURVIVES. AND IN FACT, HER TUTOR, IT
00:18:11SUGGESTED IT SHOULD BE PUBLISHED. IT WAS NOT.
00:18:13BUT HAPPILY, IT'S IN HER HER PAPERS.
00:18:16BUT SHE IT'S A FANTASY.
00:18:19AND IF YOU KNOW YOUR BIBLE, YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE THE SUBTEXT OF
00:18:23A BIBLE STORY WHERE THE DISCIPLES ARE ARGUING ABOUT WHO
00:18:26IS THE GREATEST AMONG THEM, THAT SORT OF THING.
00:18:28BUT THIS IS A FANTASY WHERE SHE'S BEEN TO THE BOTANICAL
00:18:32GARDENS AND SHE FALLS ASLEEP AND
00:18:34SHE TAKES A NAP IN THE BOTANICAL
00:18:36GARDENS AND WHEN SHE WAKES UP SHE HEARS THE FLOWERS TALKING TO
00:18:40EACH OTHER AND SAYS SHE DECIDES SHE'S GOING TO PRETEND TO BE
00:18:45ASLEEP SO SHE CAN HEAR WHAT THIS CONVERSATION IS.
00:18:47AND THE FLOWERS ARE ALL ARGUING ABOUT WHO IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL
00:18:51AMONG THEM. NO ONE HAS THE, YOU KNOW, THE
00:18:55MOST BEAUTIFUL PETALS AND THE OTHER ONE HAS THE SWEETEST FAKE FRAGRANCE, ALL THAT SORT OF THING.
00:18:59AND FINALLY, THIS ARGUMENT PLAYS ITSELF OUT.
00:19:01AND THEN THE VIOLET STEPS IN AND
00:19:04SAYS, EACH OF US IS BEAUTIFUL IN
00:19:06HER OWN WAY, AND SHE LIFTS UP
00:19:10ALL THESE DIFFERENT CHARACTERISTICS AND SAID, WE ARE
00:19:12ALL THE MOST BEAUTIFUL.
00:19:15AND THE FLOWERS AGREE WITH THE VIOLET AND THEY AGREE.
00:19:19THAT'S HOW THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK AT IT. AND SO ELEANOR SAYS, AND SO THE
00:19:23CONTROVERSY WAS ENDED. BUT PRIVATELY, I WILL SHARE WITH
00:19:26YOU THAT THE VIOLET HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY FAVORITE FLOWER. HMM.
00:19:30SO I THINK WE SEE AT THE AGE OF
00:19:3312 OR 13, SOME CONSCIOUSNESS THAT'S ALREADY THERE.
00:19:37NOW, WHAT HAPPENED THERE WAS A REAL BREATH OF FRESH AIR IN HER
00:19:42LIFE WAS THAT HER MOTHER HAD
00:19:44EXPRESSED A DYING WISH THAT ELEANOR WOULD BE SENT ABROAD FOR
00:19:47HER EDUCATION. AND.
00:19:49AND ANNA AND ELLIOTT ROOSEVELT
00:19:53HAD MET MAURICE WHO VESTRY, WHO WAS THE HEAD MISTRESS OF ALLAN'S
00:19:57WOULD SCHOOL IN WIMBLEDON. THEY HAD MET HER.
00:20:00AND I THINK ELIOT'S YOUNGER
00:20:03SISTER HAD ACTUALLY STUDIED WITH HER AT ANOTHER SCHOOL.
00:20:06SO THIS WAS SOMEONE WHO WAS KNOWN TO THE FAMILY AND
00:20:12GRANDMOTHER. HALL WAS NOT TOO THRILLED WITH THE IDEA OF ELEANOR GOING
00:20:15ABROAD, BUT SHE DID AGREE TO IT.
00:20:18AND IT WAS A REAL TONIC FOR
00:20:20ELEANOR BECAUSE HAVING HAD THIS
00:20:24FATHER WHO THOUGHT SHE WAS THE CAT'S MEOW, AND THEN HAVING HAD
00:20:27A GRANDMOTHER WHO KEPT HER UNDER A KIND OF LOCK AND KEY WHEN SHE
00:20:32GOT TO ALLAN'S WOOD, MAURICE VESTRY JUST THOUGHT SHE REALLY
00:20:35HAD REAL TALENT.
00:20:37AND SHE ALSO WAS VERY POPULAR WITH THE OTHER GIRLS.
00:20:40SO SHE'S IN THAT ENVIRONMENT WHERE SHE CAN BE AN EXTROVERT
00:20:44AND BE THE, YOU KNOW, THE
00:20:47JOVIAL, RELATIONSHIP LOVING, FRIENDSHIP BUILDING PERSON THAT
00:20:51SHE SHE WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE, A
00:20:54LOT OF HISTORIANS ATTRIBUTE THE DEVELOPMENT OF HER SOCIAL
00:20:57CONSCIENCE TO MAURICE VESTRY, WHO WAS VERY MUCH A SOCIAL
00:21:01JUSTICE ADVOCATE.
00:21:03SHE WAS ALSO A LESBIAN AND SHE
00:21:06WAS AN ATHEIST AND THEY
00:21:08ATTRIBUTE THAT TO MAURICE VESTRY.
00:21:10I CONTEND THAT IT WAS ALL THERE
00:21:13TO BEGIN WITH. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I
00:21:15THINK IS FASCINATING IS THAT AS
00:21:19A AS ADORING AS ELEANOR WAS OF
00:21:21HER TEACHER AND SHE KEPT A
00:21:23PICTURE OF HER ON HER DESK FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE, YOU KNOW,
00:21:27VERY SIGNIFICANT INFLUENCE ON HER LIFE.
00:21:30SHE ALSO ARGUED WITH HER CONSTANTLY ABOUT HER ATHEIST.
00:21:34SHE CHALLENGED IT, YOU KNOW, AND
00:21:36MARIE SYLVESTRE WAS THE KIND OF
00:21:38PERSON WHO WANTED STUDENTS TO CHALLENGE HER.
00:21:41SO SHE REALLY SHE GOT OFF ON IT, TOO. YOU KNOW, THIS THIS DIALOG AND
00:21:46ACTUALLY, THEY WENT ON A CHRISTMAS TOUR WHERE ELEANOR
00:21:49TOOK HER TO A CATHOLIC CHURCH
00:21:52FOR AN ELABORATE, ELABORATE CHRISTMAS EVE MASS.
00:21:54AND MAURICE VESTRY WAS ABLE TO
00:21:56APPRECIATE IT ESTHETIC. LEA ELEANOR GOT A LITTLE BIT
00:22:00MORE OUT OF IT THAN THAN JUST THE ESTHETICS.
00:22:03BUT I FIND THAT SO FASCINATING
00:22:05IS THAT EVEN AT THAT VERY YOUNG
00:22:07AGE AND EVEN HAVING HAD THE
00:22:09DIFFICULTIES THAT SHE HAD, SHE
00:22:12HAD A LOT OF SELF CONFIDENCE.
00:22:14THERE WAS SOME KIND OF BASE SICK
00:22:16BELIEF THAT SHE HAD THE
00:22:19CAPABILITIES THAT WE ALL KNOW
00:22:21SHE DID ALL ULTIMATELY HAVE. NOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I
00:22:26THINK I HAVE TO ANSWER IN MY BOOK, I SAY SAY, WELL, WHERE DID
00:22:30THIS IDEA COME FROM THEN? IF THEY SEE SHE HAD A NARROW,
00:22:32DEPRIVED UPBRINGING AND IT REALLY COMES FROM THE FACT THAT
00:22:36GRANDMOTHER HALL WAS VERY STRICT
00:22:39WITH ELEANOR WOULD NOT LET HER
00:22:41HAVE FRIENDS OVER TO THE HOUSE. THAT'S REALLY KIND OF KEPT HER
00:22:44ON HER ON A TIGHT LEASH AND AS I
00:22:47SAID, EVEN THE KIDS WHO WERE TUTORED WITH HER WERE HANDPICKED
00:22:52BY MY GRANDMOTHER.
00:22:53HALL IN MY BOOK, I TRY TO
00:22:56ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO LOOK A LITTLE MORE KINDLY ON HER.
00:23:01AND ONE REVIEWER SAID HE SAID MR. MITCHELL'S ATTEMPT TO
00:23:05REHABILITATE GRANDMOTHER HALL IS
00:23:07APPALLING AND WELL AT THE RISK OF APPALLING YOU ALL, I'M GOING
00:23:10TO TELL YOU WHAT WHAT MY THINKING IS.
00:23:13FIRST OF ALL, I THINK AS WITH
00:23:15SARAH DELANO ROOSEVELT,
00:23:17GRANDMOTHER HALL SUFFERED FROM
00:23:20SOME MISOGYNY THAT CREEPS INTO
00:23:23THE HISTORIOGRAPHY. BUT THE OLDER IT IS, THE MORE
00:23:26LIKELY THEY ARE TO BE HARD ON A WOMAN WHO IS ASSERTIVE.
00:23:29SO I THINK THAT'S THEIR BUT I
00:23:31LOOK ON GRANDMOTHER HALL WITH A GREAT DEAL OF SYMPATHY, NOT
00:23:35SAYING THAT SHE DID EVERYTHING RIGHT, BUT HERE WAS A WOMAN WHO
00:23:39WAS A WIDOW. SHE WAS UP IN THE AIR. SHE HAD RAISED SIX CHILDREN TO
00:23:44ADULTHOOD. AND THEN HER FIRSTBORN DIES AT THE AGE OF 28.
00:23:48AND THEN SHE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR
00:23:51THREE SMALL CHILDREN, ONE OF
00:23:53WHOM DIES ON HER WATCH.
00:23:55AND THEN THE FATHER, WHO WASN'T
00:23:58MUCH HELP, BUT THEN HE DIED, TOO. SO THAT FORECLOSED ANY
00:24:02POSSIBILITY THAT HE MIGHT
00:24:04SOMEDAY BE REHABILITATED AND BE
00:24:06ABLE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. I JUST LOOK ON HER AND SAY SHE'S
00:24:10THE ONE WHO REALLY HAD THE TRAGIC LIFE AND IT'S LATE IN
00:24:14LIFE, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT HAPPENS TO HER. SHE'S ALREADY SHE COULD THINK OF
00:24:16HERSELF AS A SUCCESS, MAYBE, YOU
00:24:19KNOW, HAVING SIX ADULT CHILDREN.
00:24:23SO I THINK THAT THAT IS IS TRAGIC. AND SO I THINK ALSO THE GRIEF
00:24:28THAT GRANDMOTHER HALL MUST HAVE
00:24:30FELT AS WELL AS WHAT OWN OR FELT
00:24:33IN THE LOSS OF BOTH PARENTS AND
00:24:35A SIBLING, I THINK THAT MADE
00:24:37THOSE EARLY TEENAGE YEARS VERY DARK.
00:24:39BUT THEN WHAT HAPPENS WITH
00:24:43ALAN'S WOULD IS SHE GETS A NEW LIFE, AT LEAST ON LIFE.
00:24:46IT'S KIND OF A RESURRECTION EXPERIENCE AND SHE BECOMES
00:24:50HERSELF AGAIN IN THE WAY THAT SHE SHE WAS IN THOSE YEARS WHEN
00:24:54HER FATHER WAS ALIVE AND WELL
00:24:56AND PART OF HER HER HER FAMILY.
00:25:00NOW, I ALSO WANT TO TELL YOU A
00:25:03LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE RELIGIOUS
00:25:06CULTURE THAT SHE WAS PART OF. I'VE TOLD YOU ABOUT THE PARISH
00:25:10IS BUT THE RELIGIOUS CULTURE OF
00:25:14NEW YORK WAS HEAVILY INFLUENCED BY THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH BECAUSE
00:25:18IT HAD BEEN THE ESTABLISHED CHURCH DURING THE COLONIAL
00:25:22PERIOD. AND EVEN THOUGH IT NEVER HAD A
00:25:24MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION, IT
00:25:27WAS CHARGED WITH RESPONSIVE ABILITY FOR THE WHOLE POPULATION
00:25:30TO HAVE A CHARTER TO TRINITY CHURCH, WALL STREET FROM WILLIAM
00:25:34AND MARY, SAID THE CHURCH HAS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE
00:25:38SPIRITUAL NEEDS OF ALL NEW YORKERS, WHETHER THEY'RE MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH OR NOT.
00:25:42AND A FEW YEARS LATER, QUEEN
00:25:45ANNE ENDOWED THE PARISH WITH A
00:25:49GLEBE THAT'S A FARM TO RAISE MONEY FOR THE PARISH.
00:25:52A HISTORIC MEDIEVAL TRADITION.
00:25:55THIS GLEBE STRETCHED FROM WALL
00:25:58STREET TO CHRISTOPHER STREET IN
00:26:00MANHATTAN AND TO THIS DAY, SOME
00:26:02OF THOSE SKYSCRAPERS ON WALL STREET PAY GROUND RENTS TO
00:26:06TRINITY CHURCH.
00:26:07OKAY, WITH THAT MONEY, THEY WERE
00:26:11ABLE TO FOUND MANY INSTITUTIONS, INCLUDING KING'S COLLEGE, WHICH
00:26:14BECAME COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY CITY.
00:26:16MANY HOSPITALS, OTHER INSTITUTIONS, OTHER SCHOOLS,
00:26:20LOTS OF OTHER PARISHES GREW OUT OF THAT WORK.
00:26:24AND THEY ALSO TODAY, THEY FUND ALL KINDS OF ACTIVITIES IN THE
00:26:27CITY OF NEW YORK, BUT THEY ALSO FUND THE NATIONAL BUDGET OF THE
00:26:31EPISCOPAL CHURCH. THEY FUND MISSION PROJECTS THROUGHOUT THE ANGLICAN
00:26:35COMMUNION. SO IT'S STILL GOING STRONG.
00:26:37SO IT HAD THIS THIS SENSE THAT
00:26:42THE CHURCH IS NOT A SECT, IT'S
00:26:44NOT SOMEBODY IT'S NOT AN ORGANIZATION TAKES CARE OF ITS OWN.
00:26:48IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THERE FOR EVERYBODY.
00:26:50NOT ALL CHURCHES HAVE THAT THAT IDEA. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
00:26:55DISTINGUISHES NEW YORK FROM NEW
00:26:57ENGLAND IS THAT THE WHOLE CON,
00:27:00CEPT OF JOHN WINTHROP'S VISION FOR THE MASSACHUSETTS BAY
00:27:03COLONY, WAS THAT IT WOULD BE A CITY ON A HILL, IT WOULD BE A
00:27:08UTOPIAN EXPERIENCE. THIS WOULD ALL BE A COMMUNITY OF
00:27:11THE RIGHTEOUS, THE REHABILITATED, THE REGENERATE,
00:27:14THE CONVINCED, THE CONVERTED, WHAT HAVE YOU. NEW YORK WASN'T LIKE THAT AT ALL.
00:27:18NEW YORK WAS TO BE AN EXTENSION OF LONDON, AND IT WAS KIND OF
00:27:22THE DRAGNET THING. IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHOEVER
00:27:25SHOWS UP, THAT'S PART OF IT. YOU'RE PART OF THE COMMUNITY.
00:27:28LOVE THEM, HATE THEM, THEY'RE YOURS. DEAL WITH IT. YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF THE NEW
00:27:31YORK THE NEW YORK MINDSET YET
00:27:34AND SO THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH IN
00:27:36NEW YORK HAD THAT MINDSET AND
00:27:38THEN SOMETHING VERY FORTUITOUS
00:27:40HAPPENED ALONG THE WAY THAT GAVE
00:27:44THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH A FUNCTIONAL MAJORITY IN TERMS OF
00:27:47ITS WORLD VIEW, NOT IT WAS NEVER
00:27:51A NUMERICAL MAJORITY, BUT A FUNCTIONAL MAJORITY.
00:27:53AND BY THAT I MEAN AND IF WE HAVE ALREADY DRAWN THE SHADES,
00:27:56IF YOU LOCK THE DOORS, I'LL TELL YOU, IT WAS IMMIGRATION.
00:28:00THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY
00:28:02SALUTARY FOR THE VIEWPOINT THAT
00:28:04THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH REPRESENTED
00:28:08BECAUSE YOU HAD BEGINNING IN THE
00:28:101840S, YOU HAD LARGE SCALE IRISH
00:28:12ROMAN CATHOLIC IMMIGRATION. AND THEN TOWARD THE END OF THIS
00:28:16CENTURY, ITALIAN AND POLISH AND ALL KINDS OF CATHOLIC
00:28:20IMMIGRATION, WHICH BY THAT BY 19TH HUNDRED, THE ROMAN CATHOLIC
00:28:23CHURCH WAS THE MAJORITY CHURCH IN IN NEW YORK CITY.
00:28:26BUT YOU ALSO THEN HAD BY THE END
00:28:29OF THE CENTURY, YOU HAD A LOT OF JEWISH IMMIGRATION AS WELL.
00:28:32AND THERE HAD ALREADY BEEN A JEWISH COMMUNITY ESTABLISHED IN NEW YORK.
00:28:36BUT IT GOT REALLY BIG TO THE POINT THAT IT WAS THE SECOND
00:28:39LARGEST GROUP IN NEW YORK AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY, AT THE
00:28:42BEGINNING OF THE 20TH CENTURY, AND THEN THE NEXT LARGEST GROUP
00:28:45WERE THE EPISCOPALIANS WHO HAD
00:28:47THIS HISTORIC LEADERSHIP ROLE.
00:28:50AND NOW THEY HAD A FUNCTIONAL MAJORITY IN THAT.
00:28:53THEY ALL SHARE THIS IDEA OF
00:28:55COMMUNITY THAT WAS VERY SOLIDARY
00:28:58ISTIC AND VERY NON JUDGMENTAL.
00:29:02THE NEW ENGLAND VERSION WAS THAT
00:29:06GOD IS PRIMARILY A JUDGE OF HUMAN BEHAVIOR AND HE'S
00:29:09PRIMARILY DISSATISFIED WITH IT.
00:29:11AND WE NEED TO DISCIPLINE IN THE COMMUNITY AND BEHAVE IN WAYS
00:29:15THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE PLEASING TO GOD. THE WHOLE THING WAS DIFFERENT IN
00:29:18NEW YORK, GOD IS SEEN AS THE GIVER OF GREAT GIFTS.
00:29:21IT'S THE GOD OF GRACE THAT'S THE ONE THAT'S EMPHASIZED IN THE
00:29:26RELIGIOUS CULTURE OF NEW YORK. AND SO THE EMPHASIS IS NOT ON
00:29:30SOCIAL DISCIPLINE, BUT ON SOCIAL
00:29:32PROVISION, GETTING PEOPLE WHAT THEY NEED.
00:29:34NOT SO MANY QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER THEY DESERVE IT OR NOT.
00:29:38IF THEY NEED IT, WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO GET IT FOR THEM.
00:29:42AND YOU CAN SEE ARE ACTUALLY THE
00:29:46OUTLIER SINS OF WHAT BECOMES THE
00:29:48CONSUMING, THE IDEOLOGICAL DISPOSITION OF THE NEW DEAL,
00:29:52WHICH IS REALLY ABOUT PROVIDING
00:29:54FOR THE PEOPLE, NOT FIXING THEM OR MANAGING THEM, OR MAKING THEM
00:29:59INTO SOMETHING THAT THEY'RE NOT.
00:30:00SO THAT I THINK PLAYED INTO
00:30:03CERTAINLY ELEANOR WAS APPROACHED
00:30:07TO TO HER RELIGIOUS COMMITMENTS
00:30:11ALSO, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I
00:30:12FIND IS ALMOST PROPHETIC AND YOU
00:30:15CAN MAKE OF IT WHAT YOU WANT IS
00:30:17THAT THIS PRIEST ADAPT HIS HER
00:30:20AS I TOLD YOU, BECAME THE FIRST BISHOP OF WASHINGTON.
00:30:23THERE WAS NO DICE HIS OF WASHING
00:30:26TUNE IN THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH. IT WAS CREATED IN THE LATE 19TH
00:30:30CENTURY AND IT WAS THE IDEA OF
00:30:32IT WAS TO CREATE A PLATFORM FOR
00:30:36THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH TO SPEAK TO PUBLIC ISSUES.
00:30:40AND THE IDEA WAS WE WOULD HAVE A
00:30:42BISHOP OF WASHINGTON WHO WOULD
00:30:44SPEAK FOR THE CHURCH AND WE WOULD HAVE A GREAT NATIONAL
00:30:48CATHEDRAL TO FULFILL. PIERRE LONG FONS VISION WHEN HE
00:30:52DESIGNED THE CITY, HE MADE PROVISION FOR GREAT HOUSE OF
00:30:55PRAYER FOR NATIONAL PURPOSES. IT DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE.
00:30:57NOBODY BUILT IT. SO THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH SAID,
00:31:01WELL, WE'LL DO THAT. AND PART OF WHAT THAT IS, IS
00:31:05WHERE THAT'S COMING FROM IS THAT
00:31:07AFTER THE CIVIL WAR, THERE WAS A
00:31:09GREAT NEED FOR CONCEPTS OF
00:31:12NATIONAL UNITY. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CHANGES
00:31:16MANY THINGS THAT CHANGED WITH THE CIVIL WAR. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CHANGES IS THAT PRIOR TO THE
00:31:20CIVIL WAR, THE UNITED STATES
00:31:22TAKES A PLURAL VERB. AFTER THE WAR, IT TAKES A
00:31:26SINGULAR VERB. SO THE UNITED STATES ARE
00:31:28PLANNING TO DO SOMETHING AFTER THE WAR.
00:31:32IT'S THE UNITED STATES IS PLANNING OKAY.
00:31:34THE UNITED STATES IS A SINGLE COUNTRY.
00:31:36IT'S NOT SO MUCH A FEDERATION ANYMORE.
00:31:39THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH HAD HAD
00:31:42THIS NATIONAL UNITY ARGUMENT FROM THE BEGINNING, AND ONE OF
00:31:46THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED DURING
00:31:48THE 70S AND THE 80S, 1870S AND
00:31:5180S, AND FOR THE FIRST TIME AND THE ONLY TIME IN ITS HISTORY,
00:31:54THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH GREW AT A RATE THAT WAS SLIGHTLY GREATER
00:31:58THAN THE GENERAL POPULATION
00:32:00GROWTH OF THE COUNTRY PRIOR TO
00:32:04WELL, FROM FROM THE TIME OF THE
00:32:06REVOLUTION TO THE PRESENT DAY, THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH HAS CLOCKED
00:32:10IN AT ABOUT 1% OF THE POPULATION.
00:32:13NATIONALLY AND IT WAS DURING THE
00:32:17THE 18TH 70S AND 80S THAT IT
00:32:20STARTED TO OUTPACE THE NATIONAL POPULATION.
00:32:22IT LATER RECEDED. BUT I THINK PART OF THAT WAS
00:32:25THAT THERE WAS THIS NEED FOR A NATIONAL UNITY ARGUMENT.
00:32:29IT WAS QUITE COMMON FOR
00:32:32ORGANIZATIONS, NATIONAL BODIES
00:32:35WERE FORMING TO GO TO CONGRESS TO GET A CONGRESSIONAL CHARTER
00:32:38TO SAY THIS IS NOT JUST A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DO
00:32:41SOMETHING. THIS IS GOING TO BE FOR THE WHOLE COUNTRY. SO THE RED CROSS IS AN EXAMPLE
00:32:46OF THAT. AND OF COURSE, WHITENING THE FEDERAL ALSO GOT A CONGRESSIONAL
00:32:50CHARTER AND AT THE TIME THAT THE
00:32:53CORNERSTONE IS LAID, IT'S NOT
00:32:55JUST THE PRIEST WHO BAPTIZED ELEANOR ROOSEVELT, WHO LAYS THE
00:32:59CORNERSTONE. HE'S JOINED BY THE SITTING PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES,
00:33:03ELEANOR, HIS GODFATHER. SO I FIND IT KIND OF INTERESTING
00:33:07THAT THIS IDEA OF RELIGION AND
00:33:10PUBLIC LIFE KIND OF COMING
00:33:13TOGETHER IN HER RELIGIOUS TRADITION, BUT THEN COMING
00:33:16TOGETHER IN HER PERSONAL LIFE IS
00:33:19AS WELL, IS IS VERY SIGNIFICANT.
00:33:22YOU KNOW, SHE SHE MAINTAINED HER PARISH AFFILIATIONS THROUGHOUT
00:33:24HER LIFE, INCLUDING HERE IN HYDE
00:33:26PARK, ST JAMES HYDE PARK, WHERE
00:33:30SHE HAD HER HER FUNERAL, ONE OF HER THREE FUNERALS WAS AT ST
00:33:34JAMES. BUT SHE ALSO HAD CLOSE
00:33:39RELATIONSHIPS WITH INCARNATION FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE.
00:33:42WHEN THEY LIVED IN ALBANY, THEY WERE MEMBERS OF THE CATHEDRAL OF
00:33:46ALL SAINTS. WHEN THEY MOVED TO WASHINGTON,
00:33:48THEY JOINED ST THOMAS DUPONT
00:33:50CIRCLE AND FDR ACTUALLY SERVED ON THE VESTRY. THERE.
00:33:54AND WHEN THEY WERE IN CAMPOBELLO, THEY WERE ACTIVE MEMBERS OF ST ANNE'S WELSHPOOL
00:33:58AND FDR WAS ELECTED AN HONORARY VESTRY, MEN THERE.
00:34:03SO SHE HAD THIS CLOSE
00:34:05RELATIONSHIP TO HER OWN CHURCH.
00:34:07BUT SHE ALSO SPOKE IN A VERY
00:34:10BROAD ECUMENICAL LANGUAGE.
00:34:13AND I THINK THAT'S WHY A LOT OF OBSERVERS THINK SHE EITHER
00:34:16WASN'T RELIGIOUS OR WASN'T COMMITTED TO A PARTICULAR
00:34:20TRADITION. SHE SPOKE IN A BROAD ECUMENICAL LANGUAGE.
00:34:24BUT IN HER BOOK, THE MORAL BASIS
00:34:26OF DEMOCRACY, SHE ACTUALLY SAYS
00:34:28THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE PATTERN
00:34:30FOR LIFE AND INTO MY MARCHESE.
00:34:32AND SHE SAYS, NOT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO BELIEVE THAT HE WAS THE SON OF GOD.
00:34:36THAT'S NOT THE POINT. THE POINT IS THAT HE IS AN
00:34:40EXAMPLE OF HOW WE HAVE TO LIVE
00:34:43WITH CONCERN AND FOR THE
00:34:45WELL-BEING OF OUR NEIGHBOR, WITH
00:34:47GENEROSITY OF SPIRIT AND A
00:34:50COMMITMENT TO THE WELL-BEING OF OUR NEIGHBORS.
00:34:52SHE SAW DEMOCRACY ENTIRELY AS A
00:34:56COOPERATIVE ENTERPRISE, NOT A SPHERE OF COMPETITION.
00:34:59AND THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK WE HAVE LOST.
00:35:03MAYBE WE CAN REGAIN IT, BUT WE CERTAINLY DON'T SEEM TO BE
00:35:06TALKING ABOUT COOPERATION VERY MUCH IN THE PRESENT DAY.
00:35:09BUT IT WAS SOMETHING THAT NOT ONLY ELEANOR BELIEVED IN, BUT
00:35:13ACTUALLY DURING THE NEW DEAL.
00:35:14SOME SCHOLARS DID RESEARCH ON
00:35:19CLERGY ATTITUDES TOWARDS THE NEW
00:35:21DEAL AND THERE WAS ONE SURVEY
00:35:25WHERE THEY WERE ASKED WHAT KIND OF SOCIETY WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE?
00:35:29COMMUNISM, SOCIALISM, AND OR
00:35:32CAPITALISM OR THE COOPERATIVE COMMONWEALTH.
00:35:35AND IT EPISCOPALIANS
00:35:37OVERWHELMINGLY EPISCOPAL CLERGY,
00:35:40OVERWHELMINGLY SELECTED CO-OPERATIVE COMMONWEALTH AS
00:35:43THEIR THEIR VISION. AND I THINK IF WE WERE GOING TO
00:35:48CHARACTERIZE THE NEW DEAL AND IT'S HARD TO ACTUALLY COME UP
00:35:50WITH A SINGLE JUDGMENT OF IT, BUT I THINK CO-OPERATIVE
00:35:54COMMONWEALTH IS PART OF THE
00:35:57UNDERLYING VISION OF THE OF THE NEW DEAL.
00:35:59SO I THINK I'M PROBABLY OUT OF
00:36:02TIME AND IS IT TIME TO TAKE
00:36:04QUESTIONS OPEN UP. OKAY. YES. OH, EXCUSE ME.
00:36:08YOU NEED TO COME UP TO THE
00:36:10MICROPHONE BECAUSE WE'RE.
00:36:17I WAS JUST WONDERING IF YOU HAVE
00:36:20ANY REFLECTIONS ON ELEANOR'S
00:36:22CHURCH LIFE AT ST PAUL'S IN TIVOLI? YES.
00:36:28SHE. SHE SHE TALKED ABOUT THE
00:36:32DIFFICULT OF THE RIDE THERE
00:36:35BECAUSE THEY WENT THEY WENT IN A HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE AND IT WAS
00:36:38ABOUT FOUR MILES.
00:36:39AND SHE ALSO IT HAD PEWS WHERE
00:36:43THEY WOULD SIT TOGETHER. THEY WERE FACING EACH OTHER.
00:36:45AND SHE WAS UNCOMFORTABLE
00:36:47BECAUSE HER GRANDMOTHER COULD, LIKE STARE AT HER DURING THE
00:36:51LITURGY. SO THAT'S ACTUALLY ALL I ALL I
00:36:55KNOW ABOUT HER REFLECTIONS ON IT.
00:36:58WHAT I DO KNOW IS THAT ST PAUL'S
00:37:02TIVOLI WAS ALSO NOT A BACKWATER PLACE.
00:37:04IT WAS A VERY SOPHISTICATED PARISH. SHE HAD A LOT OF FIRST FAMILIES
00:37:07FROM THE HUDSON VALLEY ARE WERE
00:37:11MEMBERS THERE AND THAT SORT OF THING. AND IT WAS PART OF THE DIOCESE OF NEW YORK.
00:37:14SO IT WAS PART OF THAT LARGER CULTURE.
00:37:19YEAH. THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE?
00:37:23I WAS JUST WONDERING HOW MUCH
00:37:25INTERACTION SHE HAD WITH REINHOLD NIEBUHR AND DID HE HAVE
00:37:29ANY INFLUENCE ON HER OR ANY
00:37:32OTHER THEOLOGIANS THAT YOU KNOW?
00:37:34WELL, YEAH, I DON'T ACTUALLY
00:37:37KNOW ABOUT NIEBUHR SPECIFICALLY.
00:37:40NYBORG CAME FROM A LIBERAL
00:37:44CALVINIST TRADITION, BUT IN TERMS OF THE AND SO, I MEAN,
00:37:49THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN SOME DIFFERENCES IN TERMS OF
00:37:51UNDERSTANDING OF COMMUNITY AND ALSO OF HUMAN NATURE.
00:37:55BUT THEY TENDED TO COME TO THE SAME KINDS OF CONCLUSIONS IN
00:37:57TERMS OF WHAT WAS NEEDED FOR FOR
00:38:00OUR SOCIETY, NEIGHBOR WAS ALSO MARRIED TO A WOMAN WHO WAS A
00:38:05CHURCH OF ENGLAND, THEOLOGIAN.
00:38:07AND SO HE WAS ABLE TO SPEAK TO
00:38:10EPISCOPALIANS IN SOME LANGUAGE
00:38:12THAT THEY UNDERSTOOD.
00:38:15NOW, SOMEONE THAT WAS VERY CLOSE
00:38:17TO HER WAS THE A PRIEST BY THE
00:38:22NAME OF WILLIAM TURNER. LEVI.
00:38:26AND SHE MET HIM LATE IN LIFE.
00:38:28BUT THEY BECAME GOOD FRIENDS BECAUSE HE WAS A LITERATURE
00:38:33PROFESSOR. AND ELEANOR HAD A LIFELONG LOVE OF THE THEATER.
00:38:35AND SO LEVI AND HIS PARENTS ACTUALLY THEY BECAME KIND OF A
00:38:40FORCE. UM, SO WHENEVER ELEANOR WAS IN NEW YORK, THEY WOULD GO TO SHOWS
00:38:42TOGETHER AND THAT KIND OF THING.
00:38:44AND THAT HER DEFINITE DEVOTION
00:38:46TO THE THEATER STARTED VERY
00:38:48EARLY WHEN SHE WAS I DON'T KNOW,
00:38:52PROBABLY ABOUT 12 OR 13. HER AUNTS HAD SEEN TESS OF THE
00:38:55D'URBERVILLES AND ELEANOR SAID
00:38:58SHE'D LIKE TO SEE IT. AND THEY SAID, NO, YOU'RE TOO YOUNG FOR THAT.
00:39:02AND SHE WAS GIVEN SOME MONEY TO
00:39:04GO TO A CHURCH BAZAAR AT
00:39:08INCARNATE NATION. AND SHE SOMEHOW GOT IN TOUCH
00:39:10WITH A FRIEND AND SAID, I'VE GOT MONEY.
00:39:13WE CAN GO TO A MATINEE. AND SO THEY WENT TO THE MATINEE
00:39:16OF TESS OF THE D'URBERVILLES.
00:39:18SO AGAIN, I SHARE THAT BECAUSE
00:39:22I'M KIND OF INTRIGUED BY IT. WHEN WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT HOW
00:39:26OPPRESSIVE GRANDMOTHER HALL WAS, ELEANOR WAS NOT NECESSARILY
00:39:30DESTROYED BY THAT. SHE HAD SOME OF HER OWN SPIRIT
00:39:33AND RESOURCEFULNESS THERE. AND ISN'T IT THE CASE THAT
00:39:37ELEANOR'S BROAD ACUMEN, ICAL VIEWS CAME FROM THE TIME WHEN
00:39:40SHE WAS WORKING AT THE U.N. AND SHE READ THE BHAGAVAD GITA AND
00:39:44THE KORAN AND, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE SHE HAD TO DEAL WITH THIS
00:39:49UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND COME UP WITH A DEFINITION OF RELIGION THAT FIT
00:39:53EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD. YEAH, WELL, IN FACT, SHE SHE DID
00:39:56SAY THAT SHE WOULD HAVE PREFERRED TO SEE THE UNIVERSAL
00:40:00DECLARATION MAKE REFERENCE TO A SUPREME BEING AS THE SOURCE OF
00:40:04RIGHTS. BUT SHE RECOGNIZED THAT THAT WAS
00:40:07NOT GOING TO WORK FOR EVERYBODY
00:40:09BECAUSE NOT ALL RELIGIONS HAVE A
00:40:11CONCEPT OF A SINGLE SUPREME BEING.
00:40:14AND SO THEY SETTLED ON THE CONCEPT OF SIMPLY SAYING, YOU'RE
00:40:18BORN WITH THESE RIGHTS. WE DON'T SAY WHERE THEY CAME FROM.
00:40:22DON'T NEED TO. YOU'VE GOT THEM. THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO WORK ON. WE NEED TO WORK ON RESPECTING
00:40:26THEM. BUT I THINK THAT THE THE
00:40:30ECUMENICAL VISION IS ACTUALLY
00:40:32THERE EARLIER THAN THAN THE U.N. PERIOD.
00:40:35CERTAINLY BY THE TIME SHE SHE WENT TO WASHINGTON.
00:40:38BUT ALSO SO IN HER EARLIEST DAYS
00:40:43WHEN SHE GOT BACK FROM ALLAN'S WOULD HER GRANDMOTHER WANTED HER
00:40:47TO HAVE A DEBUT AND BE A DEBUTANTE AND ALL THAT.
00:40:49AND SHE DON'T WANT TO DO IT, BUT SHE AGREED TO IT.
00:40:53BUT HER FRIEND, MARY HARRIMAN
00:40:56HAD FORMED THE JUNIOR LEAGUE FOR THE PROMOTION OF SETTLEMENT WORK.
00:40:59AND MARY HERMAN'S VISION IS YET
00:41:01THESE DEBUTANTES TO STOP GOING TO PARTIES ALL THE TIME, GET
00:41:04THEM TO DO SOMETHING USEFUL.
00:41:06AND SO, ELEANOR WAS A DEBUTANTE
00:41:08WHO WENT TO THE WOMEN'S RIVINGTON STREET SETTLEMENT AND
00:41:12MAINLY WORKED WITH JEWISH CHILDREN.
00:41:15AND SHE HAD TO, IN SOME CASES,
00:41:18VISIT THEM IN THEIR HOMES. WHEN THEY WERE SICK.
00:41:21AND THESE WERE LOWER EAST SIDE TENEMENTS.
00:41:23AND BY THIS TIME SHE WAS COURTING FDR.
00:41:26HE WAS COURTING HER, AND SHE
00:41:29TOOK HIM WITH HER TO ONE OF THESE TENEMENTS.
00:41:31AND HE HAD BEEN REQUIRED TO DO
00:41:33SOCIAL WORK WHEN HE WAS AT.
00:41:35AND SO HE WAS NOT A COMPLETE NOVICE, BUT WHAT HE SAW IN
00:41:39GRAFTON, MASSACHUSETTS, WAS NOTHING LIKE WHAT HE SAW ON THE
00:41:43LOWER EAST SIDE. AND SHE SAID HE WAS LIKE DOUBLED
00:41:46OVER BY THE STENCH, FOR ONE THING. BUT WHEN THEY CAME OUT INTO THE
00:41:50STREET, HE SAID, I HAVE NO IDEA
00:41:51THAT PEOPLE LIVE LIKE THIS.
00:41:55AND 25 YEARS LATER, HIS SPEECH
00:41:58IS I SEE A THIRD OF A NATION, AN ILL HOUSED, ILL CLAD, ILL FED
00:42:02THAT MADE TREMENDOUS IMPRESSION ON ON HIM.
00:42:05SO I THINK THAT ELEANOR HAD A
00:42:09BROAD KIND OF SOCIAL PERSPECTIVE EVEN AT A VERY YOUNG AGE.
00:42:12SHE WAS ABOUT 19 YEARS OLD AT
00:42:14THE WHEN THAT INCIDENT OCCURRED.
00:42:17BUT SHE SHE ALREADY HAD IT. YEAH.
00:42:21YOU GOT TIME FOR PROBABLY ONE
00:42:26MORE. OKAY.
00:42:28WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
00:42:37NEXT, MORE FROM HYDE PARK, NEW
00:42:39YORK, AND THE ROOSEVELT READING FESTIVAL.
00:42:43I'M BILL HARRIS, THE DIRECTOR
00:42:45HERE AT THE FDR PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY. WELCOME YOU ON THIS BEAUTIFUL
00:42:49SATURDAY MORNING HERE TO A PLACE THAT FDR WOULD BE SO HAPPY THAT
00:42:52THIS WAS OCCURRING. AND I LOVE TO BE ABLE TO SAY
00:42:56THAT, TO SPEAK ON HIS BEHALF THESE MANY YEARS LATER,