Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:02DO BUSINESS WITH THE NAZIS
00:00:06ACCORDING TO THEIR RULES.
00:00:08WE WILL NOT LET IT STAND.
00:00:12SO WHENEVER I SAY HEAR THINGS
00:00:14ABOUT, OH, ROOSEVELT WANTING TO
00:00:18AVOID GETTING INTO THE WAR, OR THAT IT WAS WHAT THE WAY THAT HE
00:00:22MADE HIS FEELINGS KNOWN TO PEOPLE IN HOLLYWOOD COULD NOT
00:00:25HAVE BEEN MORE CLEAR. AND THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS
00:00:28WHY SO MANY FILMS WERE COMING
00:00:30OUT THAT SUPPORTED THE BRITISH
00:00:34AND SORT OF OPPOSING THE NAZIS. SOMETIMES IN VERY SOPHISTICATED
00:00:38WAYS. BUT THAT'S BUT IT'S A GREAT POINT.
00:00:40AND AND FRANK CAPRA DID IT
00:00:43AMAZING JOB IN AMAZING JOB. HE'S REALLY THE BEST PERSON TO
00:00:47DO IT. BUT IT HAD BEEN SET UP A LITTLE BIT EARLIER.
00:00:51THANK YOU FOR. ALL RIGHT.
00:00:55THANK YOU. THANK YOU, DAVE.
00:00:58MICHAEL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
00:01:10NO. NEXT, MORE FROM HYDE PARK, NEW
00:01:14YORK, AND THE ROOSEVELT READING FESTIVAL.
00:01:18GOOD AFTERNOON, FOLKS.
00:01:20MY NAME IS DONNA CORNING AND I'M
00:01:22A DOCENT AT THE FDR LIBRARY.
00:01:25AND ON BEHALF OF THE ROOSEVELT LIBRARY, I'D LIKE TO WELCOME YOU
00:01:29TO THIS SESSION THIS AFTERNOON.
00:01:33AND I IMAGINE YOU'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE OR FOR THE OTHER
00:01:36SESSIONS, BUT JUST LET ME QUICKLY RUN THROUGH THE FORMAT.
00:01:39IT'S THE SAME WE'RE GOING TO
00:01:42HAVE OH, 30 TO 40 MINUTES OF OUR
00:01:46PRESENTATION AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE APPROXIMATELY TEN MINUTES FOR A QUESTION.
00:01:51AND ANSWER. AND WE REALLY HOPE YOU WILL DO THAT. AND THEN WE'RE INVITING YOU TO
00:01:54GO DOWN TO THE STUDIO BOOKSTORE, CONTINUE CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR
00:01:59AUTHOR AND POSSIBLY PURCHASE A
00:02:02BOOK, GET IT AUTOGRAPHED. I DID THAT.
00:02:06SO SO LET ME INTRODUCE OUR
00:02:09SPEAKER FOR THIS AFTERNOON. I'M REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS.
00:02:12PROFESSOR MICHAEL GERHART IS THE
00:02:16BURTON CRAIG DINGUS, DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR OF
00:02:21JURISPRUDENCE, UNCI CHAPEL HILL.
00:02:23HIS EXPERTISE IS PRESIDENTIAL CONGRESSIONAL CONFLICTS.
00:02:28HE HAS PUBLISHED TEN BOOKS AND
00:02:30IS THE AUTHOR OF 50 YEAR MEMOIRS NAVIGATING THE PATH TO GREATNESS, WHICH HE'S GOING TO
00:02:34SPEAK TO US ABOUT THIS AFTERNOON.
00:02:38HE IS CURRENTLY WORKING ON A NEW STUDY OF THE HISTORY OF THE
00:02:42PRINCIPLE. NO ONE IS GIVEN THAT NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
00:02:46HE HAS TESTIFIED MORE THAN 20
00:02:48TIMES BEFORE CONGRESS ADVISED
00:02:51TWO PRESIDENTS ON IMPEACHMENT AND SERVED AS SPECIAL COUNSEL TO
00:02:55THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE FOR SIX SUPREME COURT
00:03:00NOMINATIONS AND SERVED AS SPECIAL COUNSEL TO THE PRESIDING
00:03:03OFFICER IN PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SECOND IMPEACHMENT TRIAL.
00:03:07SO LET'S GIVE PROFESSOR GERHART
00:03:10A WARM WELCOME.
00:03:22LET ME START BY THANKING ALL OF
00:03:24YOU FOR BEING HERE. I'M REALLY GRATEFUL FOR THAT.
00:03:28IT'S A GREAT HONOR TO BE HERE, ESPECIALLY WITH SO MANY OTHER
00:03:32GREAT BOOKS, AS WELL AS A BEAUTIFUL DAY.
00:03:35SO I DON'T WANT TO KEEP YOU FROM ENJOYING ALL THAT.
00:03:40AND I FEEL LUCKY BECAUSE I
00:03:43SOMEHOW SLIP THROUGH AND GOT,
00:03:45YOU KNOW, GOT ON THE SCHEDULE
00:03:47AND APPARENTLY WHEN THAT
00:03:49HAPPENED, I CONTINUE FOR CHAPEL
00:03:52HILL, NORTH CAROLINA, MADE THEIR
00:03:54WAY HERE.
00:03:59SO I HAVE THE, I GUESS, THE
00:04:02UNIQUENESS OF HAVING I JUST DISCOVERED THIS A FAN CLUB.
00:04:08I USED TO IT USED TO BE MY WIFE AND THREE BOYS.
00:04:11BUT NOW I GUESS, YOU KNOW, I GUESS IT'S A LITTLE BIGGER.
00:04:14BUT THAT LEADS ME TO THINK I
00:04:16BETTER START TALKING ABOUT FDR AND NORTH CAROLINA.
00:04:20IT'S NOT A BIG SUBJECT IN THE
00:04:23BOOK, BUT OF COURSE, IF YOU'RE
00:04:25FAMILIAR WITH THE LIFE OF FDR, YOU KNOW THE CONNECTION TO A
00:04:29NUMBER OF DIFFERENT STATES, INCLUDING NORTH CAROLINA.
00:04:33THERE WERE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE HE
00:04:37BROUGHT INTO HIS ADMINISTRATION
00:04:39FROM NORTH CAROLINA, PERHAPS WELL KNOWN IN MY PART OF THE
00:04:43COUNTRY.
00:04:45JOSEPH, AS DANIELS AND DANIELS
00:04:49WAS THE NAVY SECRETARY UNDER
00:04:51WHOM FDR GOT HIS FIRST POSITION
00:04:55AS ASSISTANT NAVAL SECRETARY.
00:04:57AND I'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A MINUTE. ONE REASON I MENTION THAT IS
00:05:02BECAUSE ONE OF THE CHALLENGES I THINK OF TRYING TO DO SOMETHING
00:05:05LIKE THIS, A BOOK LIKE THIS, IS
00:05:09TO THINK ABOUT IF I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO HAD AN
00:05:11IMPACT ON FDR, THE SO-CALLED PEOPLE THAT ACTED AS HIS
00:05:15MENTORS. THEN HE SOMETIMES RECOGNIZED AS HIS MENTORS.
00:05:19I GOT TO LOOK AT A LOT OF
00:05:21DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND MY EDITOR,
00:05:25AMONG OTHER PEOPLE, SAID, OH, YOU KNOW WHAT? HOW ABOUT JOSEPHUS DANIELS?
00:05:28AND SO, LIKE MANY OF YOU, SIR, I
00:05:33LOOKED INTO JOSEPHUS DANIELS, EVEN THOUGH, OF COURSE, HE'S
00:05:36FROM MY PART OF THE COUNTRY AND EVEN THOUGH THE RALEIGH NEWS AND
00:05:39OBSERVER IS STILL A VERY PERHAPS
00:05:43THE MAJOR PAPER IN NORTH
00:05:45CAROLINA AND I QUICKLY
00:05:49DISCOVERED A FEW THINGS, HE WAS
00:05:53COMPLETELY UNFAMILIAR WITH THE NAVY.
00:05:57ONE REASON WHY, AS YOU KNOW, FDR
00:05:59BECOMES HIS ASSISTANT IS BECAUSE
00:06:02FDR SUPPOSEDLY KNOWS SOMETHING ABOUT BOATS. HE LIKED TO SAIL.
00:06:06SO THE CRITERIA OF BACK THEN NO
00:06:10DIFFERENT THAN TODAY. YEAH.
00:06:12NO MORE THINGS CHANGE THE MORE THEY STAY THE SAME. YOU KNOW?
00:06:16AND SO.
00:06:20THAT WAS ONE ASPECT OF DANIELS. AND OF COURSE, HE WAS A GOOD OLD
00:06:24BOY. BUT THE OTHER ASPECT OF DANIELS,
00:06:27WHICH I THINK CLINCHED THE
00:06:31CONCLUSION THAT HE WOULD NOT BE A MENTOR, IS HE WAS A WHITE
00:06:35SUPREMACIST. THAT EXPLAINS, AMONG OTHER THINGS, WHY HIS NAME GETS
00:06:39REMOVED FROM OUR BOOKSTORE AND
00:06:43AND AS I MENTIONED A MINUTE,
00:06:45THEY DIDN'T NECESSARILY GET ALONG THAT WELL.
00:06:49SO I'LL TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT.
00:06:52WELL, WHEN YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT. WELL, LET ME FIRST TALK ABOUT
00:06:56WHY I GOT INTERESTED IN THIS
00:07:01PROJECT.
00:07:01THERE'S STUFF, PENDERS BOOKS
00:07:05THAT HAVE BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT
00:07:07FDR, INCLUDING BY BILL LICHTENBERG.
00:07:10I HAD THE GREAT PRIVILEGE OF
00:07:13BEING ONE OF HIS COLLEAGUES AT USC.
00:07:18AND I FIGURED OUT, OKAY, I'M NOT GOING TO WRITE A BOOK LIKE THAT,
00:07:23BUT MY WORK THERE WAS JUST
00:07:26SUMMARIZED FOR YOU IN PART WORKING WITH THE SENATE AND
00:07:30SUPREME COURT NOMINATIONS AND
00:07:33IMPEACHMENTS HAS HAD REALLY SORT
00:07:36OF FAMILIARIZED ME WITH A LOT OF PRESIDENTIAL HISTORY.
00:07:40SO WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT THE YEAH, PART OF MY JOB WAS TO BE
00:07:44THE ENCYCLOPEDIA THAT EVERYBODY WOULD RELY ON FOR INFORMATION
00:07:46ABOUT NOMINATIONS AND PRESIDENTS
00:07:49AND PRECEDENTS.
00:07:51AND SO I FOUND MYSELF WORKING A
00:07:55LOT WITH PEOPLE, OF COURSE, HAVE
00:07:57BEEN GREAT PRESIDENTS, LET'S SAY, LIKE LINCOLN AND I HAD
00:08:01WRITTEN A BOOK CALLED LINCOLN'S MENTORS THE EDUCATION OF A
00:08:04LEADER AND ONE OF THE REASONS I
00:08:08ENDED UP DOING THAT IS BECAUSE I
00:08:12KEPT RUNNING ACROSS ALL THIS RESEARCH INVOLVING PRESIDENTS
00:08:17THAT I DIDN'T REALLY THINK MANY PEOPLE KNEW.
00:08:21AND THAT GOT ME INTRIGUED, AND I
00:08:24GOT PARTICULARLY INTRIGUED WHEN I STARTED THINKING ABOUT BECAUSE
00:08:27AFTER ALL, ON THE LEGAL EDUCATOR, AMONG OTHER THINGS, IS, WELL, HOW DO THESE PEOPLE
00:08:32BECOME THE PEOPLE THEY BECAME WHO MIGHT HAVE HAD IMPACT ON THEM?
00:08:36YOU KNOW, WHERE DO THEIR IDEAS COME FROM?
00:08:39CERTAINLY THEY HAD EXPERIENCE AND THEY HAD THEIR OWN POLITICAL GIFTS.
00:08:44BUT WERE THERE PEOPLE THAT
00:08:46HELPED GUIDE THEIR WAY OR INFORM THEIR WAYS?
00:08:50AND NOT EVERYBODY WHO INFLUENCED FDR.
00:08:53AND THERE WERE A WHOLE LOT OF
00:08:56PEOPLE BEING COUNTED, AT LEAST IN THIS BOOK, AS A MENTOR.
00:09:00SO BY THAT TERM AND THAT NOTION, WHAT I MEAN IS SOMEBODY WHO HAD
00:09:03AN ENDURING IMPACT ON FDR WAS
00:09:07SORT OF VALUES AND HIS APPROACH
00:09:10TO GOVERNMENT AND HOW HE EVEN
00:09:13HANDLED PEOPLE AND A LOT OF HOW
00:09:17HE PERFORMED, A LOT OF THE
00:09:19PRESIDENTIAL ACTS AND THAT HE
00:09:21ACTUALLY CONDUCTED THROUGHOUT
00:09:24HIS MANY YEARS AS PRESIDENT. AND ONE WAY I TRIED TO FIGURE
00:09:27THAT OUT WAS, OKAY, LET'S THINK
00:09:29ABOUT HIS LIFE AND SEE IF THERE WERE RECURRING CHARACTERS.
00:09:33BY THE WAY, THIS IS A GAME YOU'RE GOING TO PLAY AT HOME.
00:09:37SO EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT
00:09:40REALLY A STRICTLY OBJECTIVE TEST.
00:09:44SO YOU CAN THINK ABOUT, OKAY, IF
00:09:47I MISS SOMETHING, THAT'S OKAY.
00:09:50MAYBE YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY ELSE YOU THINK HAD MORE IMPACT.
00:09:53MAYBE YOU THINK NOBODY HAD MUCH
00:09:55IMPACT, WHICH, BY THE WAY, IS NOT A BAD THEORY, BUT I DON'T
00:09:59THINK IS NECESSARILY THE CORRECT ONE.
00:10:03SO HERE ARE THE RECURRING CHARACTERS.
00:10:06I THOUGHT AND TRACKED AS HAVING
00:10:10AN IMPACT THROUGHOUT MUCH OF FDR
00:10:16LIFE, NOT JUST AT THE BEGINNING OF HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AS YOU
00:10:19PROBABLY WELL KNOW, CERTAINLY HAD AN IMPACT ON HIM.
00:10:22UNFORTUNATE HIS FATHER DIED WHEN
00:10:24HE WAS YOUNG AND I THINK DID
00:10:27INSTILL WITHIN FDR A VERY
00:10:31IMPORTANT ATTRIBUTE, AND THAT
00:10:33WAS THIS IDEA OF NEW BLESSED LEADERSHIP.
00:10:36THIS IDEA THAT HE WAS COMING
00:10:38FROM A CLASS THAT HAD AN
00:10:42OBLIGATION TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE.
00:10:46WE DON'T REALLY CALL IT THAT ANYMORE.
00:10:48BUT IT WAS VERY PROMINENT
00:10:50THROUGHOUT FDR, HIS LIFE.
00:10:52AND THAT'S CERTAINLY SPARKED
00:10:56LET'S SAY IT KIND OF PLANTED A
00:10:58SEED THAT THEN REALLY GREW ONCE
00:11:02ROOSEVELT'S PARENTS KICKED HIM OUT.
00:11:08SO THAT WHEN HE WAS IN HIGH
00:11:10SCHOOL OR BARELY IN HIGH SCHOOL,
00:11:12HIS UNCLE, BY THE WAY, OR I
00:11:15SHOULD SAY DISTANT COUSIN WHO HAD A GREAT DEAL OF IMPACT ON
00:11:18HIM AND IS A MENTOR.
00:11:20TEDDY ROOSEVELT SUGGESTS STATED
00:11:25TO FRANKLIN'S FATHER THAT MAYBE
00:11:29THE BEST THING TO DO WITH
00:11:31FRANKLIN WAS TO SEND HIM TO A
00:11:35REALLY FANCY PREP SCHOOL THAT HAD JUST BEGUN.
00:11:39JUST BEEN FOUNDED AND SOME OF
00:11:43YOU MAY HAVE VISITED THE GROTON SCHOOL.
00:11:46AND WHAT WAS ESPECIALLY DISTINCTIVE ABOUT IT AT THAT
00:11:49TIME WAS ITS HEADMASTER, WHOSE
00:11:53PICTURE EVEN APPEARED ON THE FRONT OF THE TIME MAGAZINE.
00:11:57NOT TOO NOT TOO MANY HEADMASTERS
00:11:59GET THAT KIND OF DISTINCT. AND THIS WAS A MAN NAMED
00:12:04ENDICOTT PEABODY.
00:12:06AND I WILL SUGGEST AT THE OUTSET, I THINK HE WAS AN
00:12:09ENORMOUS INFLUENCE ON FRANKLIN'S LIFE.
00:12:12HE CERTAINLY CARRIED ON.
00:12:15HE LIVED THIS ENTIRE IDEA OF NOBLESSE OBLIGE.
00:12:19BUT HE ALSO HAD THIS VISION OF
00:12:21WHAT WAS THEN CALLED SORT OF
00:12:25MAN, THE CHRISTIANITY, SORT OF A MUSCULAR CHRISTIANITY, WHICH IS
00:12:29WE'RE GOING TO PLAY GAMES LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, FOOTBALL AND
00:12:31OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT. YOU'RE GOING TO LEARN TO BE SORT
00:12:35OF TOUGH. AND BUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO
00:12:38IS THEN USE THAT TOUGHNESS TO
00:12:41ADVANCE IDEAS AND SERVICES THAT
00:12:44WILL HELP OTHER PEOPLE AND FDR
00:12:50WASN'T KNOWN AS FDR BACK THEN.
00:12:53FDR FOUND HIMSELF DRAWN TO
00:12:56PEABODY, WHO WAS HIMSELF A VERY
00:12:58MAGNETIC CHARACTER. IF JUST AS PART OF HIS
00:13:02BACKGROUND, HE SPENT SOME TIME
00:13:04IN TUCSON, WAS AT THE OKAY CORRAL DURING THE FAMOUS
00:13:07GUNFIGHT THAT YOU MAY HAVE HEARD ABOUT IN OTHER CONTEXTS. SO WHEN HE SHOWS UP IN
00:13:12MASSACHUSETTS, AS YOU KNOW, THIS, I THINK OXFORD EDUCATED
00:13:16FELLOW KNEW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT AMERICA AND ITS MANNERS, WHICH
00:13:20DIDN'T. TERRIBLY IMPRESSIVE.
00:13:23BUT WHAT PEABODY DID, HE WAS A
00:13:25VERY TOUGH TASKMASTER THERE ALL
00:13:27SORTS OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT HOW AFRAID THEY WERE.
00:13:30EVEN FDR SAID, YOU KNOW, EVEN WHEN HE WAS PRESIDENT, FDR SAID, I'M AFRAID OF IT.
00:13:35YES, HE WROTE THAT IN THE LETTERS. AND BY THE WAY, THE LETTERS
00:13:37BETWEEN THEM, THEY THEY EXTEND ALL THE WAY FROM THE TIME FDR
00:13:42GRADUATED FROM GROTON TO WRITE
00:13:45BEFORE PEABODY'S DEATH IN 1944.
00:13:50AND THEY WROTE DOZENS AND DOZENS
00:13:53OF LETTERS. AND PEABODY WAS NEVER SHY ABOUT
00:13:57TRYING TO GIVE ADVICE TO FDR. BY THE WAY, HE WAS HE OVERSAW
00:14:01HIS FIRST INAUGURAL AND HIS LAST.
00:14:04AND AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS
00:14:09THAT REALLY STRUCK ME ABOUT THE LETTERS IS THAT AS YOU CAN READ
00:14:13THEM OVER THE COURSE OF TIME,
00:14:18FRANKLIN ALWAYS CALLS HIM DR.
00:14:22PEABODY, EVEN WHEN HE'S PRESIDENT UNITED STATES.
00:14:24HE CALLED HIM DR. PEABODY.
00:14:28AND AND THAT WAS EVEN IN HIS PRESENCE. YOU KNOW, AS I MENTIONED, HE
00:14:32SAYS I'M STILL SCARE ME A BIT.
00:14:36AND, YOU KNOW, BY THE WAY, WE FOUND SOMEBODY WHO SCARED FDR. THAT WAS THAT IN ITSELF WAS A
00:14:40FEAT. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS IN THE
00:14:45PEABODY WRITES AND DEAR MR.
00:14:47PRESIDENT ALSO, HE ACTUALLY, I MISSPOKE.
00:14:52HE ACTUALLY CALLS HIM FRANKLIN EVEN AS PRESIDENT. HE CALLS HIM FRANKLIN.
00:14:56SO THE RELATIONSHIP ALWAYS, I
00:14:58THINK, WAS BETWEEN MENTOR AND MENTEE.
00:15:01THAT IS CERTAINLY HOW EACH OF THEM SAW IT.
00:15:04AND I THINK YOU CAN SEE IN THE
00:15:06BIBLICAL REFERENCES THAT EMERGE
00:15:09AND FDR SPEECHES AND HIS KNOWLEDGE ABOUT RELIGION, A LOT
00:15:13OF THAT IS TRACED BACK TO THE TIME HE SPENT AT GROTON GOING TO
00:15:17CHURCH SERVICES WITH AND SCOTT
00:15:21PEABODY. SO THAT'S THAT'S ONE OF MY FIRST CANDIDATES.
00:15:24AND BY THE WAY, PEABODY ALSO WAS
00:15:27NOT SO SHY THAT HE WOULDN'T TELL FRANKLIN.
00:15:31MAYBE YOU SHOULD DO THIS AND NOT THAT HE WAS ALWAYS TRYING TO
00:15:33SORT OF GIVE HIM ADVICE AND WAS
00:15:37ALMOST ALWAYS ADVICE ABOUT SORT OF DOING SOMETHING NOBLE,
00:15:40SOMETHING VIRTUOUS, SOMETHING THAT WAS GOOD.
00:15:46AND FDR DIDN'T LISTEN TO A LOT
00:15:48OF PEOPLE, BUT HE DID LISTEN, I THINK TO PEABODY DOESN'T MEAN
00:15:52YOU ALWAYS DID. BUT PEABODY SAID, BUT HE AT LEAST HE LISTENED.
00:15:56HE TOOK IT INTO ACCOUNT.
00:15:57SO THAT'S THAT'S ONE OF THE FIRST ONES I TALK ABOUT AND I
00:16:01TALK ABOUT HIM THROUGHOUT THE BOOK VERY INTERESTING CHARACTER.
00:16:06AND AND REALLY HAD A ENORMOUS
00:16:10INFLUENCE, NOT JUST OVER FDR, BUT OVER EDUCATION.
00:16:13AND I WENT WHEN I VISITED
00:16:17GROTON, YOU KNOW, I SAW THE THE BOARD, THEY PUT THE CLASSES UP ON A BOARD.
00:16:21AND YOU SEE THE CLASS THAT ROOSEVELT WAS IN AND HIS PHOTOS
00:16:24NOT NOT PROMINENTLY DISPLAYED,
00:16:28BUT IN FACT, I THINK THE MOST PROMINENT.
00:16:32PAINTING OR PHOTO IS ENDICOTT
00:16:36PEABODY. AND SO AND THAT'S FINE.
00:16:39YOU KNOW, HE FOUND THIS GREAT
00:16:41INSTITUTION AND HE'S ENTITLED TO THAT.
00:16:45BUT YOU CAN FIND THROUGHOUT
00:16:48ROOSEVELT'S LIVES TIME AND TIME AGAIN WHEN HE'S SORT OF DRAWING
00:16:52IN THAT EARLY EXPERIENCE DURING
00:16:56WHICH HE WAS ADMITTEDLY FAIRLY
00:16:58OFTEN QUITE SICK, HE WAS NOT THE
00:17:02ROBUST GUY THAT TR WAS.
00:17:05HE WANTED TO BE.
00:17:07BUT AS YOU WELL KNOW, HE'S GOING
00:17:10TO HAVE A CRUCIBLE TO CROSS DEAL WITH.
00:17:13THAT'S GOING TO MAKE THAT REALLY DIFFICULT.
00:17:15IF FRANKLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE
00:17:20AND I SAW ON 5 OR 6 PEOPLE.
00:17:23BUT AGAIN, THIS IS NOT SCIENTIFIC.
00:17:25IT'S REALLY JUST ONE EDUCATOR TRYING TO THINK ABOUT, OKAY, TO
00:17:29WHAT EXTENT DOES EDUCATOR, TO
00:17:32WHAT EXTENT IS INFLUENCE, TO WHAT EXTENT DOES A MENTOR MAKE
00:17:35IN SOME OF THESE LEADERSHIP UP?
00:17:39AND SO THAT'S AGAIN WHEN I WAS SORT OF AFTER AND WHAT I WAS
00:17:42LOOKING FOR.
00:17:45SO A SECOND PERSON WAS OF
00:17:49COURSE, TEDDY ROOSEVELT AND THIS
00:17:53HAPPENS EARLY AND IT IS A
00:17:57PROFOUND INFLUENCE OVER FDR BY
00:18:01THE WAY, THE FIRST PRESIDENT FDR
00:18:03EVER MET WAS GROVER CLEVELAND,
00:18:07AND HE WAS A TINY CHILD.
00:18:11AND CLEVELAND SAID, WELL, YOU
00:18:13KNOW, I PROBABLY SAID THIS TO EVERY TIME CHILD AND SAYS, WELL,
00:18:17MAYBE SOMEDAY BECOME PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES.
00:18:22YOU. AND ONE THING ABOUT FDR, IF YOU
00:18:24CHALLENGE HIM, HE'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO, YOU KNOW, JUST TAKE
00:18:28THAT LYING DOWN.
00:18:31SO BUT IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT TR HIS INFLUENCE AND I SUSPECT
00:18:34ALL OF YOU DO, ONE OF THE PLACES
00:18:37YOU CAN LOOK IS HOW FDR DRESSED
00:18:39EVEN FROM HIS HE WAS A YOUNG MAN
00:18:44HE I HAVE A PHOTO IN THE BOOK WHERE THEY'RE WALKING TOGETHER
00:18:48AND YOU CAN SEE THAT FRANKLIN'S GOT PINS AND HANDS AND HE'S GOT
00:18:50THE SAME OUTFIT, BUT HE DIDN'T NEED GLASSES. BUT HE'S GOT THE WHOLE LOOK DOWN
00:18:54AND HE'S TRYING TO DRESS AND ACT LIKE TR HUH.
00:19:00AND TR BECOMES, I THINK, LARGELY
00:19:02A POSITIVE MODEL FOR FRANKLIN.
00:19:06WE KNOW THAT TEDDY HAS A ROLE IN
00:19:10THE IN THE MARRIAGE TO ELEANOR.
00:19:12WE KNOW THAT TEDDY MAKES
00:19:15APPEARANCES AT DIFFERENT TIMES THROUGHOUT FDR.
00:19:18HIS LIFE.
00:19:19HE'S CERTAINLY A LARGER THAN LIFE FIGURE HIMSELF.
00:19:23YOU PROBABLY KNOW ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS QUOTES ABOUT TR,
00:19:26WHICH PROBABLY IS APT. YOU KNOW, EVERY WEDDING, HE
00:19:30WANTED TO BE THE BRIDE AT EVERY FUNERAL.
00:19:32HE WANTED TO BE THE CORPSE.
00:19:36AND I THINK THAT TO SOME EXTENT
00:19:38THAT'S HOW FDR SAW HIM. HE I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS I
00:19:43GATHER FROM STUDYING FDR IS HE
00:19:47DIDN'T GROW UP INTIMIDATED BY PEOPLE WHO WHO WERE POWERFUL OR
00:19:52WEALTHY, THAT BY ITSELF IS
00:19:55RATHER SORT OF REMARKABLE.
00:19:59HE WOULDN'T BE SHY ABOUT AND HE
00:20:03WASN'T SHY, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH RESPECT TO THE THIRD MENTOR THAT
00:20:05HE TRIED TO SEEK OUT OFTEN WHEN
00:20:09HE WAS CONSIDERING RUNNING FOR THE PRESIDENT AND EVENTUALLY BECAME THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE,
00:20:13AND THAT IS WOODROW WILSON.
00:20:15I IN MY VIEW, IT'S GOING TO IT'S
00:20:17IN DISPUTE. WILL WILSON WOULD BE A MENTOR IN
00:20:21DIFFERENT WAYS THAN WE MIGHT
00:20:25EXPECT BY SAYING SOMEBODY IS A MENTOR. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT SAYING, OH,
00:20:28THIS IS THEY'RE GOING TO BE MODELS FOR EVERYTHING GOOD THIS PERSON DOES.
00:20:32YOU CAN HAVE A MENTOR WHO'S QUITE BAD.
00:20:34YOU COULD HAVE A MENTOR WHO IS
00:20:38ESTABLISHING A BAD MODEL.
00:20:41AND FRANKLIN HATED WILSON'S
00:20:45RECTITUDE, DIDN'T HAVE MUCH RESPECT FOR IT, BUT HE WAS AN
00:20:50OPPORTUNIST.
00:20:50AND SO HE'S GOTTEN HIS START IN
00:20:54STATE POLITICS. BUT WHAT DOES HE WANT TO DO WITH HIS LIFE?
00:20:58WELL, AGAIN, AS ALL OF YOU KNOW, IF YOU TRACK THE PROGRESS OF
00:21:02FRANKLIN MAKES, IT'S ALMOST WALKING IN THE SAME FOOTSTEPS AS
00:21:06TR.
00:21:08ARE HARVARD AN ATTEMPT AT GOING
00:21:12TO LAW SCHOOL TO COLUMBIA? AND HE FDR DROPS OUT JUST LIKE
00:21:16TR.
00:21:18HE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST JOBS HE WANTS TO GET. STATE LEGISLATURE.
00:21:22WHAT'S THE NEXT JOBS? HE WANTS TO GET? THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF NAVY.
00:21:26NOW, WHY WOULD THAT BE?
00:21:27BECAUSE THAT WAS TR AND I THINK
00:21:30IT'S JUST A THEORY. I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S GOING TO
00:21:33BE PROVEN, BUT I SUSPECT OR
00:21:36AGAIN, A THEORY THAT ONE OF THE
00:21:38WAYS THAT FDR LOOKED AT TR WAS NOT SORT OF IN ORDER, BUT IT WAS
00:21:43MUCH MORE LIKE IF YOU CAN DO
00:21:46THAT, I THINK I CAN DO THAT AND PROBABLY BETTER.
00:21:50AND FRANCES PERKINS MAKES AN
00:21:54APPEARANCE EARLY AND OFTEN THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE.
00:21:57AND WHEN SHE FIRST ENCOUNTERS FDR IN HIS EARLY DAYS IN THE
00:22:01STATE LEGISLATURE, SHE THINKS
00:22:03HE'S AN ARROGANT S.O.B. SHE HAS
00:22:08NO RESPECT FOR HIM, THINKS HE'S KIND OF EMPTY HEADED, YOU KNOW,
00:22:11FANCY, EDUCATED GUY WHO DOESN'T
00:22:13REALLY KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE WORLD. AND SHE'S NOT.
00:22:17SHE'S NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL. INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, SHE, TOO,
00:22:21HAS AN EYE FOR.
00:22:25YOU KNOW, PATHWAYS TO INFLUENCE AND POWER.
00:22:29AND IT TURNS OUT THIS GUY, FDR,
00:22:32IS GOING TO TURN OUT TO HAVE A PRETTY GOOD PATHWAY.
00:22:36AND FRAN SAYS, IS THERE, AS I
00:22:40SAID, EARLY AND OFTEN, SHE'S ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE THAT TENDS TO
00:22:44FDR WHEN HE HAS POLIO. AND WHEN HE'S PRESIDENT.
00:22:50HE IS HE RELIES ON HER HEAVILY
00:22:54FOR ECONOMIC INFLUENCE AND PARTICULARLY FOR LABOR STATISTICS.
00:22:58AND IN UNDERSTANDING LABOR LAW.
00:23:00THE ECONOMIC ADVISORS, FDR HAD,
00:23:02BY AND LARGE THOUGHT HE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING.
00:23:06IN THE WORLD OF ECONOMICS.
00:23:10WHICH IS A PROBLEM IF YOU'RE THE PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES DURING A GREAT DEPRESSION.
00:23:16SO HE GETS HE HAS TO RELY ON OTHERS.
00:23:20AND I THINK FRANCES PERKINS IS ONE OF THOSE SHE GROWS TO
00:23:23RESPECT HIM, PARTICULARLY.
00:23:25AND SHE WRITES ABOUT THIS DURING
00:23:29THROUGH HIS BATTLE WITH POLIO. SHE SAYS, AND I'M JUST
00:23:34PARAPHRASING, THAT IT CHANGED
00:23:36HIM BEFORE THE BATTLE, FDR WAS A
00:23:41RELATIVELY FRIVOLOUS BUT
00:23:44TALENTED UP AND COMER.
00:23:48HE HADN'T HE WAS NOT FULLY
00:23:52FORMED IN A SENSE.
00:23:54AND HE HAD THIS KIND OF ELITE
00:23:56ISM, THIS PENCHANT FOR LEADERS THAT I THINK WAS NOT TERRIBLY
00:24:02APPEALING. SO IF YOU WERE WRITING A PIECE
00:24:04OF FICTION, YOU WOULD THINK THIS
00:24:06PERSON NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT DOWN.
00:24:10WELL, WE ALL KNOW IN REALITY WHAT HAPPENS.
00:24:12HE CONTRACTS POLIO AND IT'S, I
00:24:17THINK, A SEVEN YEAR BATTLE THAT
00:24:19HE WAGES AGAINST POLIO AND HE
00:24:26LARGELY IS TENDED TO BY ELEANOR
00:24:30AND BY FRANCIS.
00:24:32AND THERE WILL BE ANOTHER PERSON.
00:24:35HOWEVER, WHO WILL ALSO APPEAR
00:24:39AND THIS IS LARGELY THE ONLY
00:24:42PLACE IN WHICH THIS PARTICULAR
00:24:44INDIVIDUAL HAS ENORMOUS
00:24:47INFLUENCE, PROBABLY NOT KNOWN OUTSIDE OF ROOSEVELT.
00:24:51YOU KNOW, FIGURES WELL, WHEN
00:24:55WHEN FDR IS JOINING THE
00:24:58LEGISLATURE AND STARTING TO CAMPAIGN, HE CATCHES AND I HAVE
00:25:03REPORTER AND THIS REPORTER
00:25:06THINKS, WELL, THIS THIS GUY MAY HAVE A FUTURE AND MAYBE THIS GUY
00:25:10COULD EVEN BE PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES. SO THIS REPORTER NAMED LOUIS
00:25:16HOWE BECOMES ALMOST ATTACHED TO
00:25:22FDR AND I THINK IT IS FAIR TO
00:25:25SAY HE BECOMES A MENTOR BECAUSE
00:25:27ONE AT THE BEGINNING, HE HELPS
00:25:29TEACH FDR ABOUT POLITICS. YOU KNOW, THIS IS HOW YOU HAVE
00:25:32TO IT HAS TO BE RETAIL. YOU HAVE TO GO TO PEOPLE. THINK ABOUT DRIVING THE CAR.
00:25:36FDR LOVED THAT YOU'D GO, YOU KNOW, DRIVE THE CAR EVERYWHERE,
00:25:40STOP ME, PEOPLE. THAT WAS IMPORTANT. NEWSPAPERS.
00:25:43WELL, HOW WAS A REPORTER? YOU HAVE TO GET YOUR NAME IN THE
00:25:46PAPERS, PREFERABLY POSITIVELY. LET'S FIGURE OUT WAYS TO DO
00:25:50THAT. AND SO HOW WAS A CONSTANT
00:25:54ADVISOR? REALLY ALMOST A THORN IN THE
00:25:57SIDE OF FDR.
00:26:00BUT YOU SEE HIM EXERT, I THINK,
00:26:06ENORMOUS INFLUENCE BECAUSE HE HAD POLITICAL JUDGMENT THAT FDR
00:26:12RESPECTED.
00:26:12AND HOW HAD THE ATTRIBUTE OF NOT
00:26:18BEING INTIMIDATED BY FDR IN THE LEAST.
00:26:21AND SO, YOU KNOW, ONE STORY IS
00:26:24THAT HAL TELLS IT HOW AN FDR
00:26:30HAVING A FIGHT IN THE WHITE
00:26:32HOUSE AND AND FDR SAYS, WELL,
00:26:36I'M JUST GOING TO GO SWIMMING.
00:26:39AND HOW YELLS DOWN THE HALLWAY OF THE WHITE HOUSE.
00:26:43I HOPE YOU DROWN.
00:26:47GOOD. THAT'S VERY STRONG PERSONALITY.
00:26:50NOW, HOW UNFORTUNATELY JUST
00:26:52NEVER GAVE HIMSELF A BREAK IN
00:26:54THINKING HE WAS AN UGLY PERSON. HE THOUGHT THE WORLD SORT OF
00:26:58LOOKED DOWN ON HIM BECAUSE HE WAS NOT TERRIBLY ATTRACTIVE. HE CERTAINLY WASN'T WEALTHY.
00:27:02BUT ROSEVILLE HAD HIM AS HIS CHIEF OF STAFF.
00:27:05HE WAS THE HEAD OF THE CAMP. HE HEADED CAMPAIGNS.
00:27:09HE WAS ALL THE WAY THERE BEHIND ROOSEVELT UP UNTIL NEAR THE END
00:27:14OF THE SECOND TERM.
00:27:15AND HOW DOES AND FDR, HIS SON
00:27:23SAYS THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE
00:27:25THAT THIS GUY HOW HAD BEEN ONE OF THE STRONGEST, BEST
00:27:30INFLUENCES EVEN ELEANOR AGREED
00:27:33ON HIS FATHER, FDR.
00:27:35SO THE WAY IN WHICH HOWE GOES ABOUT THAT IS ALSO SORT OF
00:27:39INTERESTING. AND THEY HAVE A VERY I DON'T KNOW, I'D SAY IT'S A COMPLICATED
00:27:44RELATIONS, BUT IT'S A SOMEWHAT UNIQUE RELATIONSHIP.
00:27:48BUT THAT'S NOT ALL. SO I HAVE MENTIONED MORE THAN
00:27:50ONCE ANOTHER NAME THAT OFTEN APPEARS IN ASSOCIATION WITH
00:27:54FRANKLIN, AND THAT IS ELEANOR. I.
00:27:58I DARE TO SAY I MEAN, LET ME GO BACK A STEP.
00:28:02ELEANOR HAS ENORMOUS ATTRIBUTES.
00:28:06I MEAN, SHE'S SHE'S VERY MUCH A
00:28:09YOU KNOW, A POWERFUL PERSON
00:28:12HERSELF IN TERMS OF HER THINKING, IN TERMS OF HER
00:28:16OUTLOOK AND SHE IS IN LOVE WITH
00:28:21FRANKLIN.
00:28:23SHE MARRIES HIM.
00:28:27SHE NOT EVENTUALLY LOSES SOME
00:28:30RESPECT FOR HIM BECAUSE SHE
00:28:32DISCOVERS HIS LETTERS AND AND
00:28:36ALMOST REALLY HAS A THEN IT
00:28:40BECOMES LIKE A LOVE HATE RELATIONSHIP TO SOME EXTENT.
00:28:44AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ALSO SORT OF STANDS OUT IS DURING THE
00:28:47WORLD WAR ONE, FRANKLIN HAS LET
00:28:52PEOPLE KNOW HE MIGHT BE ON THE PATH OF DIVORCE.
00:28:55AND DANIELS AND WILSON, AMONG
00:28:59OTHERS, ARE PLEADING WITH HIM NOT TO GET DIVORCED BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE THE END OF HIS
00:29:03POLITICAL CAREER. SO HE DOESN'T.
00:29:06BUT ELEANOR DOES STICK WITH HIM
00:29:10AND SHE DOESN'T LIKE THE POLITICS AT ALL.
00:29:12BUT WHO ACTUALLY CHANGED HER ATTITUDE ABOUT THAT?
00:29:16HE WAS NOT FDR.
00:29:19IT WAS LOUIS HOWE BECAUSE HE SAW
00:29:22THIS ENORMOUSLY TALENTED PERSON
00:29:23ON THE SIDELINE WHO WAS NOT
00:29:27USING ALL OF HER POTENTIAL AND
00:29:29WHO COULD MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.
00:29:31AND SO IT'S HOWE WHO BASICALLY
00:29:33KIND OF ENTICES HER COAXES HER
00:29:35INTO DOING POLITICAL ACTIVITY,
00:29:39YOU KNOW, CAMPAIGNING, DOING OTHER THINGS, BECOMING THE THE
00:29:41LEGS AND EARS TO SOME EXTENT OF
00:29:44A FRANKLIN AND SHE CAN GO PLACES.
00:29:46HE JUST COULDN'T GO.
00:29:48AND SO IN THAT REGARD SHE
00:29:52BECOMES A VALUABLE PARTNER.
00:29:54BUT SHE ALSO BECOMES, I THINK,
00:29:58VALUABLE IN THE SENSE THAT SHE'S
00:30:00NOT AFRAID TO TELL FRANKLIN WHAT HE SHOULD BE DOING.
00:30:04AND I THINK THAT ARISES MOST
00:30:06FAMOUSLY IN THE AREA OF CIVIL RIGHTS.
00:30:11SHE IS A RELENTLESS PROPONENT OF CIVIL RIGHTS.
00:30:16FDR IS NOT. IF YOU LOOK AT FDR, HIS EARLY
00:30:20LIFE, AND I THINK ALL OF YOU PROBABLY DONE THIS AND EVEN TO
00:30:23LATER PARTS OF HIS LIFE, HE WAS NOT THE MOST AGREEABLE GUY IN
00:30:27THE WORLD.
00:30:29AND FRANKLY, HE WAS RACIST AND
00:30:31HE WAS ANTI-SEMITIC.
00:30:35IT NOW HE EVENTUALLY BECOMES
00:30:37SUCH A SOPHISTICATED POLITICIAN
00:30:39THAT THOSE GET MASSAGED OVER.
00:30:41AND HE IF YOU WANT TO THINK OF IT THIS WAY, HE GROWS A LITTLE
00:30:45BIT. BUT I WOULDN'T SAY HE GROWS A LOT BECAUSE WHENEVER ELEANOR IS
00:30:49SAYING THIS IS YOUR MOMENT, THIS IS A CHANCE TO DO SOMETHING FOR CIVIL RIGHTS.
00:30:52FDR BACKS OFF AND HE BACKS OFF BECAUSE HE THINKS IT'S GOING TO
00:30:57BE THE END OF HIS POLITICAL CAREER. SO WHEN IT COMES TO A CONTEST
00:31:01BETWEEN FDR, HIS FUTURE, AND A PRINCIPLE, WHAT DO YOU THINK FDR
00:31:06DOES FDR, HIS FUTURE?
00:31:08THAT'S GOING TO BE THE IMPORTANT THING.
00:31:131 OR 2 OTHER CHARACTERS THAT I WANT TO JUST TALK 1 OR 2 THEMES,
00:31:15AND I'M HAPPY TO OPEN UP TO QUESTIONS.
00:31:19THERE ARE OTHERS THAT SORT OF
00:31:20HAVE IMPACT ON FRANKLIN.
00:31:24I THINK ONE CHARACTER REALLY
00:31:27WANTED TO BE A MENTOR, BUT BUT I
00:31:31THINK FDR DIDN'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. AND THAT WAS CHURCHILL.
00:31:35CHURCHILL WANTED TO HAVE LIKE A FATHER SON, MENTOR MENTEE
00:31:39RELATIONSHIP WITH FDR, FDR HAD
00:31:41NO REAL INTEREST IN THAT. SO HE PUSHES BACK.
00:31:46BUT. CHURCHILL, AS YOU ALL KNOW, AND
00:31:49I, WE JUST GOT MY WIFE AND I JUST GOT BACK FROM LONDON WHERE
00:31:52WE TOURED THE WAR ROOMS. AND, YOU KNOW, CHURCHES WERE WAR
00:31:56ROOMS DURING THE SECOND WORLD WAR.
00:31:58AND SO WE KNOW THAT CHURCHILL
00:32:01WAS VERY INFLUENTIAL IN GETTING
00:32:05FDR TO AT LEAST PROVIDE SOME SUPPORT FOR ENGLAND BEFORE CONGRESS.
00:32:09DID.
00:32:10AND THAT WAS THAT WAS PIVOTAL TO
00:32:14THE SURVIVAL OF GREAT BRITAIN.
00:32:18BUT FDR, WITH LISTEN TO ADVICE
00:32:22SOMETIMES HE MIGHT EVEN TAKE IT SOMETIMES, BUT SOMETIMES HE WOULDN'T.
00:32:25SO FDR WAS CONVINCED THAT ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS HE
00:32:30COULD DO AS PRESIDENT UNITED STATES THROUGH THE SECOND WORLD
00:32:32WAR IS BUDDY UP TO JOSEPH STALIN.
00:32:35NOT NECESSARILY.
00:32:38NOT, I WOULD SAY NOT A TERRIBLY
00:32:40WISE MOVE, BUT ESPECIALLY AFTER
00:32:45ROSE ROOSEVELT GETS INVITED TO
00:32:46COME TO RUSSIA AND STALIN SAYS
00:32:50TO HIM, OH, PLEASE STAY IN THE EMBASSY.
00:32:54AND FDR SAYS HIS STAFF WAS A GREAT IDEA.
00:32:58LET'S LISTEN. LET'S STAY IN THE EMBASSY. CHURCHILL THINKS HE'S CRAZY.
00:33:02THE STAFF THINKS HE'S A BIT CRAZY.
00:33:04AND THESE NEGOTIATIONS UNFOLD,
00:33:07ALL IN WHICH STALIN KNOWS EVERY MOVE FDR IS MAKING BEFORE HE
00:33:11MAKES IT. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT HAPPENED?
00:33:15BECAUSE HE WAS BUGGED AND IT
00:33:17TOOK HIM A VERY SHORT A COUPLE OF DAYS TO REALIZE THAT AND
00:33:21EVENTUALLY MOVED OUT.
00:33:23BUT IT WAS BUT AGAIN, NOT
00:33:27NECESSARILY HEARING WHAT HE
00:33:29SHOULD HAVE HEARD BECAUSE YOU'RE SO FOCUSED ON TRYING TO BE A
00:33:33BUDDY TO TO STALIN, WHICH, BY
00:33:35THE WAY, DROVE CHURCHILL CRAZY,
00:33:37AMONG OTHER THINGS, THAT
00:33:41ROOSEVELT WAS NOT ALWAYS, LET'S
00:33:43SAY, HIS BEST SELF, NOT ALWAYS ON TARGET.
00:33:47I JUST WANT TO MENTION 1 OR 2
00:33:51OTHER THINGS, SORT OF THEMES
00:33:53THAT I WOULD SAY OR THAT WAS THE FIRST HAS TO DO WITH SORT OF A
00:33:57SENSE OF HISTORY.
00:34:00I DON'T PRETEND TO BE WRITING
00:34:04ANY KIND OF GRAND HISTORY HERE,
00:34:08AND BUT I DO HAVE AN INTEREST IN
00:34:12HISTORY AND IT SORT OF MANIFESTS
00:34:14ITSELF BY MY LOOKING AT PATTERNS
00:34:22IN HISTORY, SORT OF CONNECTING
00:34:24THE EVENTS OR SEEING WHAT THINGS MIGHT BE RELATED OR NOT.
00:34:30AND I CERTAINLY TRIED TO DO THAT
00:34:30WITH ROOSEVELT AND THERE ARE 1
00:34:35OR 2 THINGS SORT OF DEVELOP. I CAN'T SAY I HAVE THE GREATEST ANSWER TO.
00:34:39I THINK THERE'S IN PART BECAUSE
00:34:42FDR WAS FAMOUS FOR HAVING A
00:34:49MASK. HE WAS FAMOUS FOR NOT BEING
00:34:52READABLE AND IT DROVE HIS STAFF
00:34:56CRAZY. NOW, ONE OF THE WAYS TO GROW
00:35:00THIS IS HIS STAFF. CRAZY IS ONE OF THE THEMES THAT
00:35:04DOES EMERGE, ESPECIALLY AFTER HE
00:35:07BECOMES PRESIDENT. IT CERTAINLY EXISTED BEFORE HE BECAME PRESIDENT, FOR EXAMPLE,
00:35:10AND HIS AFFAIRS, AND THAT IS
00:35:13THIS PENCHANT FOR LIE, LYING IS
00:35:19IS A POLITICAL NECESSITY TO SOME
00:35:23EXTENT, TO CHURCHILL FAMOUSLY SAID, YOU KNOW, THE TRUTH HAS TO
00:35:27BE PROTECTED BY A BODY OF LIES, ESPECIALLY DURING WAR.
00:35:31AND SO BUT ROOSEVELT, I THINK,
00:35:37WAS SO ENAMORED OF HIS OWN ABILITY, ONCE THOUGHT OF HIMSELF
00:35:39AS A JUGGLER, HE WAS SO CONVINCED OF HIS OWN SORT OF
00:35:45ABILITIES THAT I DON'T THINK HE REALLY I THINK HE ALWAYS THOUGHT
00:35:47HE WAS. ONE STEP AHEAD OF THE PEOPLE.
00:35:51HE WAS TALKING TO.
00:35:54AND I THINK THIS AGAIN, METAPHOR
00:36:00ITSELF, WHEN HE'S THINKING ABOUT
00:36:01RUNNING FOR A THIRD TERM, THE
00:36:04STAFF IS ALL SAYING, I ENCOURAGE
00:36:08YOU NOT TO RUN. AND BY THE WAY, HE HAD A REALLY GOOD STAFF.
00:36:11THERE ARE SOME TERRIFIC PEOPLE
00:36:13ON THE STAFF AND HE'S LYING TO
00:36:17EVERY ONE OF THEM. EACH ONE JIM FARLEY, FOR EXAMPLE, COMES TO HIM FOR THIS
00:36:20THINKING ABOUT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. AND ROOSEVELT JUST LIES TO HIM,
00:36:24TO HIS FACE, SAYS, OH, I DON'T THINK SO.
00:36:26I YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD TAKE THIS JOB EVEN IF I
00:36:30WERE OFFERED IT AND SO ON, SO FORTH.
00:36:31AND FARLEY KNOWS HE'S ALIVE AND
00:36:36THAT WAS THE END OF A VERY LONG,
00:36:38PRODUCTIVE RELATIONSHIP.
00:36:40FARLEY HOWEVER, IS TALKED INTO ATTENDING THE DEMOCRATIC
00:36:44NATIONAL CONVENTION BECAUSE
00:36:48ELEANOR ASKED HIM TO, BECAUSE HE WANTS FARLEY UNDERSTANDS THE
00:36:52UNITY OF THE PARTY MATTERS.
00:36:57HE'S NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT FDR
00:36:59SORT OF LIED TO.
00:37:01AND SO THERE THERE TIMES ALONG
00:37:03THE WAY IN WHICH ROOSEVELT
00:37:07DEMONSTRATES THIS AGAIN, PENCHANT FOR WINE, WHICH I SUPPOSE IN SOME SENSE IS
00:37:12STRATEGIC, BUT IT'S ALSO IT ENDS
00:37:16UP BACKFIRING BECAUSE IT IT IT
00:37:22DESTROYS PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS.
00:37:26THE AGAIN, ROOSEVELT'S SON SAID
00:37:30A LOUIS HOUSE FUNERAL, NOT
00:37:33PUBLICLY, BUT HE WAS SORT OF WRITING THIS DOWN.
00:37:35LATER, HE HE THOUGHT THAT HOWE'S DEATH PROVIDED PERHAPS ONE OF
00:37:38THE FEW OPPORTUNITIES FOR FDR
00:37:41AND ELEANOR TO GET BACK TOGETHER.
00:37:44BUT OF COURSE, THAT THAT REALLY NEVER HAPPENED.
00:37:48AND SHE WAS NOT THERE, AS YOU ALL KNOW, AT THE END, SHE WALKS
00:37:54INTO I MEAN, SHE FIRST DISCOVERS IT IN A NOT GREAT WAY.
00:38:00THEN SHE TRAVELS DOWN TO GEORGIA
00:38:02AND SHE WALKS INTO THIS HOUSE TO
00:38:08SEE, YOU KNOW, SHE'S NOT SHE'S PRETTY SMART. SHE CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING
00:38:12ON. YEAH.
00:38:14FRANKLIN LIED TO ME AGAIN, AND THEN SHE SAYS, I JUST NEED A
00:38:18MOMENT OR TWO ALONE. THAT'S THE CRITICAL MOMENT.
00:38:21SO NOBODY KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED BEHIND THAT CLOSED DOOR.
00:38:25BUT THAT'S THE MOMENT I THINK, IN WHICH WHATEVER HER TRUE
00:38:29FEELINGS WERE, WHATEVER HER MOTIONS WERE, SHE WAS NOT GOING
00:38:33TO YOU KNOW, SHE OBVIOUSLY JUST
00:38:37GAVE IN TO THEM.
00:38:39BUT SHE EMERGES FROM THE ROOM
00:38:41LIKE IRON AND SHE CARRIES ON FOR
00:38:47A LONG TIME AFTER HIS DEATH AS A
00:38:51DISTINGUISHED PUBLIC SERVANT.
00:38:55THIS IS JUST, BY THE WAY, THE
00:38:58INTRODUCTION. BUT I WORRY OUR TIME IS SORT OF
00:39:03MOVING ALONG AND THEREFORE, I AT LEAST WANT TO HAVE A CHANCE FOR
00:39:06YOU TO DISAGREE OR ASK QUESTIONS OR JUST DON'T THROW ANYTHING
00:39:10BECAUSE WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ON C-SPAN.
00:39:15WHICH. YEAH, SO YOU AND HENRY
00:39:19MORGENTHAU WAS ONE OF HIS CLOSEST FRIENDS. HE LIVED IN BEACON RIGHT HERE. RIGHT.
00:39:22HE LIVED THERE. THEY WERE BUDDIES. AND, YOU KNOW, AND THERE'S A
00:39:26FAMOUS PICTURE OF HIM HAVING WITH CHURCHILL AND HIS SON,
00:39:30ROBERT MORGENTHAU COMES WITH THE TEA AND WHO WAS TO SIT DAY AND
00:39:34SO WHY DO YOU THINK THAT HE WAS? WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE THAT
00:39:37HE WAS REALLY ANTI-SEMITIC? WHOSE CLOSEST FRIEND IS JEWISH,
00:39:40WAS IN HIS EARLY LIFE AND
00:39:44THROUGH, LET'S SAY, PRE POLIO? OH, I'M GOING FIRST BRING
00:39:48BROUGHT UP MEAN LETTERS AND STATEMENTS EVEN TO SOME EXTENT
00:39:54ACTIONS. I THINK YOU MIGHT SEE A TRICKLE
00:39:56OVER INTO HIS PRESIDENCY WITH RESPECT TO HIS RESISTANCE TO
00:39:59CIVIL RIGHTS, ALTHOUGH HE ALWAYS CAST IT AS HE JUST THOUGHT AS A
00:40:02POLITICAL LOSER FOR HIM. SHE WAS 20 YEARS OLD.
00:40:06HE HE'S EXPOSED EXPOSURE WHEN HE WAS FIRST BEING RAISED. SO I THINK IT WAS WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER.
00:40:10YOUNGER, BECAUSE HE WAS HE GREW
00:40:12UP AROUND PEOPLE WHO WERE WHO
00:40:16WERE. WELL, THAT'S POSSIBLE, YOU KNOW,
00:40:18LATER IN LIFE IN ALABAMA ORIGINALLY. SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT'S LIKE. YEAH.
00:40:22BUT BUT LATER IN LIFE VERY EVEN LIKE WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WHEN THEY HAD THE HE DIDN'T
00:40:26WANT TO BOMB THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS BUT THAT THAT WAS NOT
00:40:30BECAUSE OF ANY ANTISEMITISM. I THINK THAT WAS MORE I DON'T THINK SO.
00:40:33IT WAS MORGENTHAU WAS AN INCREDIBLY DISTINGUISHED PUBLIC
00:40:38SERVANT. YEAH, I'M SORRY. HE WAS A BIG INFLUENCE. YEAH. OH, YEAH.
00:40:42HE WAS A BIG INFLUENCE. BUT I DON'T THINK HE EVER HAD QUITE THE EXTENT OF INFLUENCE HE REALLY WANTED.
00:40:47AND ONE INDICATION OF THAT WAS THE THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS,
00:40:51BECAUSE I THINK HE WAS PART OF
00:40:53THAT CROWD THAT WANTED ROOSEVELT TO BE MORE AGGRESSIVE IN PUSHING
00:40:57BACK AGAINST NAZI.
00:41:03I DON'T WHAT THE RIGHT WORD IS
00:41:07THERE IS OF IT. HE JUST HORROR. HE WANTED TO WIN THE WAR.
00:41:11YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY RIGHT. HE SAID WE GOT TO WIN THE WAR
00:41:14AND THAT WILL BE OUR BEST WAY TO FREE THE PEOPLE, THE PRISON
00:41:19CAMPS IN IS IS THINKING OUT LOUD ANYWAY.
00:41:22WAS WE CAN'T BOMB FOR A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT REASONS. ONE OF WHICH IS WE'RE GOING TO
00:41:26KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE, ANOTHER WE'RE GOING TO END UP DESTROYING
00:41:30THE RAILROADS AND OTHER THINGS THAT BRING FOOD AND OTHER THINGS
00:41:33TO VARIOUS AREAS IN GERMANY.
00:41:36AND HE DIDN'T WANT TO DESTROY
00:41:39THE INFRASTRUCTURE.
00:41:42BUT YOU HAVE TO MAKE CHOICES AND
00:41:44YOU HAVE TO MAKE HARD CHOICES. AND ONE OF THE LAST TWO PARTS OF
00:41:47HIS LEGACY IS HE DIDN'T.
00:41:53HE DIDN'T BECOME INVOLVED WITH
00:41:55HE DIDN'T COME VERY MUCH INVOLVED THE SO CALLED THE
00:41:58JEWISH QUESTION DURING WORLD WAR
00:42:02TWO. IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, COULD YOU BY WHAT YOU. HE'S QUITE AWARE OF IT.
00:42:06STEVE WISE FAMOUS RABBI WHO CAME
00:42:09TO VISIT HIM HE WAS HE WOULD NOT
00:42:11TURN PEOPLE AWAY IT'S JUST THAT
00:42:13THEY DIDN'T GET AS MUCH TRACTION WITH THEM AS THEY WOULD HAVE ON HIM.
00:42:17OKAY. THANKS. UM, YOU MENTIONED THE, UH, THE
00:42:21THE GRODEN HEADMASTER, RIGHT? YEAH.
00:42:25AND HIS PHILOSOPHY ABOUT DOING GOOD FOR THE WORLD, WHICH
00:42:27OBVIOUSLY THEORISTS ACCURACY AT
00:42:30THAT POINT, THAT WASN'T THEIR MAIN THRUST, RIGHT?
00:42:34SO I'M INTERESTED IN HIS MENTORS
00:42:36THAT LED HIM TO THE NEW DEAL.
00:42:38LIKE, WAS THAT SOMETHING THAT
00:42:40SORT OF ARRIVES THROUGH, YOU KNOW, THAT WE'RE IN AN ECONOMIC
00:42:45CRISIS? YES. AND I WASN'T REALLY GOING ON THIS TRAJECTORY.
00:42:47BUT NOW WE'RE HERE AND I NEED
00:42:49SOME DYNAMIC IDEAS.
00:42:51AND OR WAS THAT PERCOLATING
00:42:55ALREADY FROM I MEAN, TR OBVIOUSLY HAD SOME PROGRESSIVE
00:42:59ASPECTS AND ALSO THE, THE 1920S,
00:43:03I MEAN, THERE WAS IDEAS OUT THERE, BUT I'M INTERESTED IN
00:43:07LIKE MENTORS IN THAT FORMATION PROCESS.
00:43:10LIKE HOW DID THAT REALLY HAPPEN? AND BY THE WAY, I'VE JUST
00:43:14LEARNED HOW TO USE A MIC FROM,
00:43:15YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A GREAT HE'S
00:43:19MY MENTOR. THAT WAS GOOD, HIS GREAT.
00:43:22AND SO.
00:43:25IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
00:43:27HE'S GOT A LOT OF INFLUENCES THAT ARE DRIVING HIM IN THAT DIRECTION.
00:43:30I'M JUST GOING TO MENTION A COUPLE.
00:43:32ONE WAS WOODROW WILSON, WILSON
00:43:35WAS A PROGRESSIVE, OPENLY PROGRESSIVE, AND A LOT OF THINGS
00:43:38WE EVEN THINK OF AS PART OF THE NEW DEAL ACTUALLY STARTED WITH WILSON.
00:43:41WILSON WAS A PROGRESSIVE GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY AS WELL.
00:43:45SO WHEN ROOSEVELT LATER BECOMES GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK, HE'S
00:43:47TAKING SOME OF WILSON'S IDEAS
00:43:49FROM WHEN HE WAS GOVERNOR, AND HE'S USING THEM IN NEW YORK BY
00:43:53THE WAY, TO GREAT EFFECT.
00:43:55SO I THINK THAT'S ONE PLACE.
00:43:58I THINK A SECOND IS HE HAS.
00:44:05THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE FRANCES
00:44:07PERKINS, WHO ARE EDUCATING HIM
00:44:13ABOUT DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF
00:44:17LEADERSHIP AND PARTICULARLY GOVERNMENT AND SO SHE, TOO, IS
00:44:21SORT OF SHE'S CERTAINLY SUPPORTS
00:44:24THE NEW DEAL AND SHE'S GIVING HIM IDEAS ABOUT HOW TO FORM IT.
00:44:28HE'S GOT ECONOMIC ADVISERS WHO
00:44:31ALSO HAVE SOME IMPACT.
00:44:34THERE ARE OTHER FOLKS I HAVEN'T MENTIONED, LIKE FELIX FRANKFURTER, WHO ARE CERTAINLY
00:44:40TRYING TO EXERT INFLUENCE OVER ROOSEVELT.
00:44:43AND FRANKFURTER IS A CHEERLEADER, YOU KNOW, FOR THAT.
00:44:45BUT I THINK ROOSEVELT PERCEIVES THAT THE NEW DEAL IN A WAY
00:44:50BRINGS TOGETHER A LOT OF THE THINGS HE HAD.
00:44:54HE ALREADY HAD SORT OF FIXED IN
00:44:56HIMSELF THIS IDEA OF NOBLESSE IS
00:44:59HOW GOVERNMENT HELPS PEOPLE, HOW LET'S GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK.
00:45:03I WE HAVE OTHER WORK PROJECTS
00:45:08AND. YOU KNOW, OVER TIME COME AND STATION LABOR LAWS, THINGS LIKE
00:45:12THAT TO PROTECT PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T PROTECTED OTHERWISE.
00:45:15MANY OF YOU MAY KNOW THAT ONE OF
00:45:18THE DEFINING EVENTS OF FRANCE'S PURPOSES EARLY LIFE WAS WHEN SHE
00:45:23WAS HAVING, I THINK IT WAS TEA WITH SOME FRIENDS AND SOMEBODY
00:45:27CAME RUNNING IN SAYING, THERE'S
00:45:29THIS HUGE FIRE AT THIS FACTORY ROUGHLY ACROSS THE STREET.
00:45:33AND IT WAS A NUMBER OF WOMEN WORK THERE.
00:45:37AND FRANCES ACTUALLY RUNS OVER
00:45:39SCHNABEL TO HELP BECAUSE IT'S
00:45:42TOO LATE. BUT THAT LEAVES A LASTING IMPRESSION.
00:45:46AND THAT LEAVES AND SO FRANCE IS ALREADY THINKING ABOUT WE HAVE
00:45:50TO HAVE BETTER LABOR LAWS. WE HAVE TO HAVE THINGS THAT
00:45:52PROTECT WORKERS. WE HAVE TO HAVE KNOW.
00:45:55IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY'RE MEN OR WOMEN, BUT IT MATTERS IF
00:45:59YOU'RE WORKING. AND SO THAT'S, UM, I THINK THOSE
00:46:02ARE THE SOME OF THE INFLUENCE. BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALL OVER THE PLACE. YOU MAY KNOW, YOU KNOW, JOHN
00:46:06KEYNES, THE ECONOMIST, IS
00:46:10WRITING LETTERS TO FDR, NOT NECESSARILY HAVING A GREAT DEAL
00:46:14OF TRACTION, BUT HE'S TRYING TO
00:46:16SORT OF ALMOST PROVIDE ECONOMIC
00:46:18ECONOMIC FOUNDATION FOR THIS IDEA OF THE NEW DEAL.
00:46:24AND HE'S NOT ALONE. HE'S BROUGHT IN SOME, YOU KNOW,
00:46:27THE FAMOUS BRAIN TRUST. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ALL THERE.
00:46:31THEY'RE ALL HELPING BOTH CONCEIVE THIS AND EXECUTE IT.
00:46:34BUT I THINK FOR ME, ONE OF THE CRITICAL THINGS IS WHAT MADE
00:46:38ROOSEVELT RECEPTIVE TO ALL THAT.
00:46:41AND I THINK IT WAS THE THE IT
00:46:44WAS A COMBINATION OF INFLUENCES THAT INCLUDE NOT JUST FATHER
00:46:48ENDICOTT PEABODY, FRANCES PERKINS. TR BY THE WAY.
00:46:52TR WAS A PROGRESSIVE AND SO AND
00:46:54OF COURSE, WILSON I THINK WILSON
00:46:56IN A CONCRETES SENSE, MAY HAVE
00:46:59HAD THE BIGGEST INFLUENCE.
00:47:06THE QUESTIONS, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?
00:47:08CAN I CAN I JUST I'M JUST WANT TO MENTION ONE LAST THING.
00:47:12JUST BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I HAD A
00:47:16PROFESSOR IN COLLEGE WHO GREATLY INFLUENCED ME.
00:47:19MY TALKING ABOUT HE WAS A STUDENT, BUT HE GREATLY
00:47:22INFLUENCED ME IN THINKING ABOUT HISTORIANS AS DETECTIVES.
00:47:25AND SO I, I THINK OF THE
00:47:28SOMETIMES THE THINGS I TACKLE AS LIKE MYSTERIES I'M TRYING TO SOLVE.
00:47:32AND ONE OF THE GREATEST MYSTERIES, OF COURSE, OF ALL IS
00:47:35WHY IN THE WORLD DID FDR TAKE ON
00:47:40TRUMAN. TRUE, TRUE.
00:47:46AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN
00:47:48EVER GET THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER.
00:47:50PART OF IT IS NOBODY ELSE. WE'RE SORT OF WORKED OUT THE
00:47:56LIABILITIES. OTHER PEOPLE WERE TOO OVERWHELMED. WHATEVER BENEFITS THEY WOULD HAVE BROUGHT.
00:48:01TRUMAN HAD BEEN A NEW DEAL
00:48:04DEMOCRAT AND A LOYAL ONE, WHICH MADE A DIFFERENCE.
00:48:08BUT A COUPLE OF THINGS I'LL JUST
00:48:10MENTION ON THIS AND I'LL CLOSE. IT WAS INTERESTING TO ME IN PART
00:48:14BECAUSE ROOSEVELT HERE WAS NOT LEARNING FROM PRESIDENTIAL
00:48:18HISTORY. ABRAHAM LINCOLN DIDN'T THINK
00:48:21ABOUT IT MUCH EITHER, AND HE HIRED OR BROUGHT ON ANDREW
00:48:25JOHNSON, WHICH WAS NOT EXACTLY THE GREATEST.
00:48:29YEAH, NOT A GREAT CHOICE, BUT HE WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE, YOU KNOW,
00:48:34PRESENCE CANNOT PICK THE TIMES
00:48:36WHEN THEY DIED, BUT WHAT THEY
00:48:38CAN DO IS REALIZE THAT
00:48:42PRESIDENTS DO DIE. AND IF YOU WANT YOUR LEGACY TO
00:48:45EXTEND HAVING SOMEBODY THAT
00:48:48REPLACES YOU, ENSURE THAT THEY
00:48:50HAVE THE SAME VALUES.
00:48:53AND I THINK I THINK ROOSEVELT DID THAT.
00:48:56HE KNEW HE WAS DYING. YEAH.
00:49:00AND I THINK, BY THE WAY, TRUMAN
00:49:02WRITES ALL THE TIME IN AND TALKS
00:49:06TO OTHER SENATORS ALL THE TIME ABOUT HOW MUCH FDR LIVES.
00:49:10AND IT JUST COMES ALMOST LIKE A
00:49:14INSIDE JOKE. YOU KNOW, FOR PEOPLE.
00:49:18BUT BUT IT SHOWS THAT TRUMAN UNDERSTOOD THAT.
00:49:21AND IT SHOWS THAT TRUMAN WOULD
00:49:22TAKE HIS OWN LESSON FROM THAT, WHICH IS HE'S ONE OF THE
00:49:25STRAIGHTEST SHOOTERS WE'VE EVER HAD ANYWAY.
00:49:28BUT THAT'S ANOTHER BOOK TO GIVE A BIG HAND. THANK YOU.
00:49:37ONE.
00:49:42YES. NEXT, MORE FROM HYDE PARK, NEW YORK, AND THE ROOSEVELT READING
00:49:48FESTIVAL. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AT THE
00:49:51ROOSEVELT READING FESTIVAL HERE IN HYDE PARK AT THE FDR
00:49:55PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY. I AM KIRSTEN STRUGGLE. CARTER. THE