Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:01THAN OUR TRANSPORTATION SECURITY OFFICERS, WHO SCREEN NEARLY 2
00:00:04MILLION PEOPLE A DAY. JUST AS THE SYMBOL OF OUR
00:00:08COMMITMENT TO SERVE IS WOVEN IN
00:00:11THE OFFICERS SHIRTS. THIS COLLECTION OF OBJECTS IN
00:00:15ARTIFACTS WEAVES SO MANY INDIVIDUAL STORIES INTO THE
00:00:19FABRIC OF A SINGLE DAY. A DAY THAT LITERALLY CHANGE THE
00:00:23WORLD. AS WE CONTINUE HONORING THE MEMORY OF THOSE KILLED ON
00:00:26SEPTEMBER 11TH, 2000, ONE EXHIBITIONS SUCH AS THIS ONE
00:00:30BECOME EVEN MORE ESSENTIAL TO
00:00:32OUR SHARED APPRECIATION OF WHAT
00:00:35THAT DAY WILL ALWAYS MEAN IN OUR
00:00:37HISTORY AND IN THE HISTORY OF TSA.
00:00:39THANK YOU.
00:00:46YOU YOU CAN VIEW ADDITIONAL OBJECTS AND LEARN MORE ABOUT THE
00:00:50SMITHSONIAN'S SEPTEMBER 11TH COLLECTIONS ONLINE BY VISITING
00:00:53AMERICAN HISTORY DOT SDK.
00:00:55EDU SLASH.
00:00:58SEPTEMBER 11TH.
00:01:03ALL WEEKEND AMERICAN HISTORY TV
00:01:06FEATURES ARCHIVAL FOOTAGE, FIRST PERSON ACCOUNTS AND TOURS OF
00:01:09MEMORIALS AND MUSEUMS FOR THE 25TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE SEPTEMBER 11TH, 2000.
00:01:13ONE TERRORIST ATTACKS. CHECK YOUR PROGRAM GUIDE OR
00:01:18VISIT C SPAN.ORG/HISTORY FOR A FULL SCHEDULE.
00:01:43GOOD MORNING, EVERYBODY.
00:01:46WELCOME TO THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE.
00:01:49I'M DANIELLE PLETKA AND THE VICE PRESIDENT FOR FOREIGN AND
00:01:52DEFENSE POLICY STUDIES HERE AT AEI. LET ME FIRST REMIND EVERYBODY,
00:01:57PLEASE TO TURN OFF THEIR TELEPHONES OR TO PUT THEM ON
00:02:00VIBRATE AND ASK EVERYBODY WHEN
00:02:02THE SESSION ENDS TO PLEASE
00:02:04REMAIN SEATED IN ORDER TO ALLOW
00:02:07OUR SPEAKERS TO LEAVE THE ROOM.
00:02:10A FINAL HOUSEKEEPING NOTE. BOOKSELLERS ARE AVAILABLE WITH
00:02:14THE BOOK IN THE RECEPTION AFTER
00:02:17THE END OF THE EVENT, WHEN AEI PRESIDENT ARTHUR BROOKS, WHO
00:02:22UNFORTUNATELY COULDN'T BE HERE, INVITED VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY
00:02:25CHENEY TO JOIN US TODAY. IT WAS WITH A VIEW TO
00:02:29REMEMBERING THE ATTACKS OF NINE, 11, TEN YEARS LATER AND
00:02:34CONSIDERING SOME OF THE LESSONS LEARNED AND THOSE THAT WERE NOT.
00:02:36SINCE THAT DAY.
00:02:40BUT THE FIRST THING TO RECALL ABOUT 911 AND ABOUT THE LONG WAR
00:02:44THAT WE ARE STILL FIGHTING IS
00:02:46THE MANY WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES.
00:02:49THE FAMILIES WHO SACRIFICED
00:02:51LOVED ONES AND THE AWFUL LOSS,
00:02:56FIRST AND FOREMOST. NOW IS THE TIME TO REMEMBER
00:02:58THOSE MANY BRAVE AMERICANS WHO DIED AT HOME.
00:03:02OUR FIGHTING MEN AND WOMEN WHO RISKED EVERYTHING SO THAT WE CAN
00:03:06LIVE IN FREEDOM.
00:03:08AND OUR INVALUABLE ALLIES FROM
00:03:10TOO MANY COUNTRIES TO NAME WHO SHARE OUR CAUSE.
00:03:14AS SOME OF YOU KNOW, VICE
00:03:18PRESIDENT CHENEY HAS RECENTLY
00:03:18PUBLISHED A MEMOIR IN MY TIME,
00:03:22WRITTEN WITH HIS DAUGHTER, LIZ CHENEY.
00:03:24WE UNDERSTAND IT WILL DEBUT AT
00:03:27NUMBER ONE ON THE NEW YORK TIMES
00:03:29BESTSELLER LIST MONDAY.
00:03:36TODAY, HE JOINS US WITH WEEKLY STANDARD SENIOR WRITER AND
00:03:41BESTSELLING AUTHOR STEVE HAYES FOR CONVERSE NATION ABOUT THAT
00:03:44ATTACK ON OUR NATION, ABOUT DECISIONS MADE SINCE THEN, AND
00:03:48SOME REFLECTIONS ON AN AMAZING
00:03:50LIFE IN POLITICS AND PRETTY MUCH WHATEVER ELSE HE AND STEVE
00:03:54CHOOSE TO TALK ABOUT TODAY AND THE HOUR THAT WE HAVE IN THE
00:03:58TIME REMAINING AFTER THAT CONVERSATION.
00:04:01WE'LL HAVE A Q&A SESSION MODERATED BY STEVE.
00:04:06LYNNE CHENEY HAS BEEN A SCHOLAR AT AEI FOR MANY YEARS.
00:04:09-- CHENEY IS AGAIN A MEMBER OF OUR BOARD OF TRUSTEES.
00:04:13WE'RE SO GLAD TO HAVE THEM AS
00:04:15PART OF OUR AEI FAMILY. AND WE THANK THEM.
00:04:17AND YOU ALL FOR JOINING US HERE
00:04:22TODAY.
00:04:28WELL, THANK YOU.
00:04:30I WON'T INTERRUPT.
00:04:34REMEMBER, YOU'RE A REPORTER. THAT'S RIGHT.
00:04:36LOOK, I GET BACK, PAY BACK AND I
00:04:41JUST WANTED TO SAY A WORD AND THEN I'LL TURN IT OVER TO MR. HAYES.
00:04:45IT'S THE BOOK I WROTE IS A
00:04:47MEMOIR COVERS ALL 70 YEARS OF MY
00:04:52LIFE. THE EARLY YEARS, OUR SHORT WHEN
00:04:55A LOT OF GOOD STUFF TO WRITE ABOUT THAT PERIOD OF TIME.
00:04:59BUT THE LAST HALF OF THE BOOK
00:05:04ROUGHLY FOCUSES ON THE BUSH CHENEY ADMINISTRATION.
00:05:07MY YEARS AS VICE PRESIDENT AND
00:05:09THE BOOK OPENS IN THE PROLOG
00:05:13WITH A RECOUNTING THE EVENTS.
00:05:15AS I SAW THEM ON 911 AND THEN
00:05:21MUCH OF THAT LAST HALF OF THE
00:05:23BOOK DEALS WITH WHAT WE HAD TO DO DURING THE COURSE OF OUR
00:05:28SUBSEQUENT SEVEN AND A HALF YEARS IN ORDER TO KEEP THE COUNTRY SAFE.
00:05:31SOME OF THE CONTROVERSIES WE WERE INVOLVED IN ON THINGS LIKE THE TERRORIST SURVEILLANCE
00:05:36PROGRAM, ENHANCED INTERROGATION, AND SO FORTH.
00:05:39SO THAT'S A LARGE PART OF THE
00:05:41BOOK IS RELEVANT WITH RESPECT TO
00:05:45911 AND THE AFTERMATH, ALTHOUGH I DON'T WANT TO MISLEAD ANYBODY,
00:05:49THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT IN THERE OF OTHER SUBJECTS AS WELL.
00:05:51SO GOING BACK TO FACT, I GUESS I
00:05:55HAVE BEEN FIVE REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATIONS. EISENHOWER, I WORKED IN FOUR OF
00:05:59THEM, WORKED CLOSELY WITH THE FIFTH.
00:06:02THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION IS PART OF THE HOUSE REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP.
00:06:05AND SO I TRY TO COVER ALL OF
00:06:08THAT PERIOD OF TIME. AND OBVIOUSLY THERE'S SOMETHING
00:06:11HOW WE HAD TO LEAVE OUT. BUT THERE'S ENOUGH THERE THAT STEVE'S TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING
00:06:14WRITING ARTICLES ABOUT ME.
00:06:19SO WHAT I'M GOING TO TURN OVER TO HIM. EXCELLENT. WELL, THANK YOU.
00:06:22AND THANKS TO DANNY AND AMY FOR HAVING US.
00:06:25JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT I THOUGHT I WOULD TRY TO DO THIS
00:06:29MORNING, I'M GOING TO START WITH SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT 911, SPECIFICALLY AND PUSH YOU IN
00:06:34PARTICULAR ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL VIEWS ON THESE THINGS, BECAUSE I
00:06:37KNOW YOU LOVE TO KIND OF PUT YOURSELF ON THE COUCH LIKE THAT.
00:06:40PUBLIC SELF-REFLECTION.
00:06:43AND THEN I'M GOING TO GO AND TALK ABOUT A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT
00:06:47WAYS IN WHICH THE POLICIES THAT
00:06:51EMANATED FROM 911 THAT YOU I THINK IN LARGE PART HELPED DRIVE
00:06:54AND TRY TO FILL IN SOME GAPS. I'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME LOOKING
00:06:58AT THE INTERVIEWS THAT YOU'VE DONE SINCE THE BOOK CAME OUT. I'VE READ IT NOW TWICE AND SOME
00:07:02QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE REMAINING FOR YOU.
00:07:04SO I THINK THAT'S HOW I'D LIKE TO PROCEED. AND THEN AS DANNY MENTIONED,
00:07:08WE'LL THROW IT OPEN TO EVERYBODY FOR SOME ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS. THAT WILL PROBABLY BE MUCH
00:07:12BETTER THAN MINE. SO I THOUGHT THE FIRST PLACE WE
00:07:16WOULD START IS ON THE MORNING OF 911.
00:07:18I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO KNOW
00:07:21WHEN YOU FIRST KNEW WE WERE
00:07:23UNDER ATTACK, NOT WHEN YOU FIRST
00:07:25HEARD ABOUT IT, BUT WHEN DID YOU KNOW WE WERE UNDER ATTACK?
00:07:29AND WHAT WERE YOUR VERY FIRST THOUGHTS AT THAT MOMENT?
00:07:32WELL, THE.
00:07:35I WAS IN MY OFFICE IN THE WEST WING WORKING WITH MY
00:07:40SPEECHWRITER WHEN MY SECRETARY
00:07:42CALLED IN TO REPORT THAT A PLANE HAD STRUCK THE WORLD TRADE
00:07:46CENTER IN NEW YORK. WE TURNED ON THE TELEVISION, AND THIS WAS AFTER THE FIRST PLANE
00:07:50HAD GONE IN BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE HAD HAPPENED.
00:07:53AND IMMEDIATE REACTION WAS TO
00:07:56THINK, HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? THIS IS A REALLY WEIRD ACCIDENT,
00:07:59PERFECTLY CLEAR WHETHER THERE WAS NO WAY TO ACCOUNT FOR IT.
00:08:03AND THEN AS WE WATCHED, WE SAW THE SECOND PLANE HIT AND THAT
00:08:07IMMEDIATELY IN MY MIND, TRIGGERED THE NOTION THAT THIS
00:08:10HAD TO BE A TERRORIST ATTACK. GOOD TO HAVE TWO AIRLINERS
00:08:13FLYING IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WITHIN MINUTES OF EACH OTHER AND
00:08:17NOT HAVE IT BE ANYTHING BUT A TERRORIST ATTACK.
00:08:21SHORTLY AFTER THAT, I TALKED TO
00:08:23THE PRESIDENT DOWN IN FLORIDA
00:08:27AND WE TALKED ABOUT A STATEMENT. HE WAS GETTING READY TO ISSUE A
00:08:31STATEMENT, AND THAT WAS WHETHER
00:08:32OR NOT IT WAS PROPER TO TALK
00:08:36ABOUT TERRORISM WITHIN THAT
00:08:39CONTEXT OF THAT STATEMENT. AND WE BOTH AGREED DEFINITELY WAS.
00:08:43AND THE WORDS TO USE WITH PROBABLY A TERRORIST ATTACK ON
00:08:47THE UNITED STATES BE WITHIN A
00:08:51RELATIVELY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
00:08:53AND PEOPLE BEGAN TO GATHER IN MY OFFICE.
00:08:57SECRETARY RICE, THEN THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, WAS
00:09:01THERE. SCOOTER LIBBY, MY CHIEF OF STAFF, WE PROBABLY HAD 7 OR 8
00:09:05PEOPLE IN THE ROOM. AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THE
00:09:09DOOR BURST OPEN AND MY LEAD
00:09:11SECRET SERVICE AGENT CAME IN AND
00:09:13CAME OVER TO THE DESK WHERE I WAS SITTING.
00:09:16AND HE SAID, SIR, WE HAVE TO LEAVE IMMEDIATELY.
00:09:19YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TAKE YOU OUT OR PLEASE COME WITH ME.
00:09:23HE SAID, WE HAVE TO LEAVE IMMEDIATELY. PUT ONE HAND ON THE BACK OF MY
00:09:27BELT AND ONE HAND ON MY SHOULDER AND LITERALLY PROPELLED ME OUT
00:09:30OF MY OFFICE. I DIDN'T HAVE THE OPTION OF NOT
00:09:33GOING TO GO AND THE THE CAUSE
00:09:43FOR THAT. THE REASON HE'D DONE THAT IS HE EXPLAINED TO ME AS HE WAS TAKING
00:09:47ME DOWN TO THE PRESIDENTIAL EMERGENCY OPERATIONS CENTER
00:09:50UNDER THE WHITE HOUSE WAS THAT IF HE'D RECEIVED A REPORT OVER
00:09:53THE SECRET SERVICE RADIO NET
00:09:57THAT THERE WAS A HIJACKED
00:09:59AIRCRAFT OUT AT DULLES, HEADED TOWARDS CROWN AT 500 MILES AN
00:10:03HOUR AROUND BEING THE CODE WORD FOR THE WHITE HOUSE.
00:10:08AND THAT TURNED OUT TO BE AMERICAN 77, WHICH, OF COURSE,
00:10:12CAME IN AND MADE A CIRCLE AND THEN WENT INTO THE PENTAGON AT
00:10:16THAT POINT, I WAS DOWN IN PART WAY TO THE PARK.
00:10:19I HADN'T GOTTEN TO THE PARK YET,
00:10:21PART WAY TO THE PARK AND I
00:10:26IMMEDIATELY USED THE TELEPHONE THAT WAS THERE TO PLACE ANOTHER
00:10:30CALL TO THE PRESIDENT, AND THAT WAS OUR SECOND OR THIRD CALL AT
00:10:32THAT MORNING.
00:10:34AND THE AIR LET HIM KNOW THAT
00:10:37WASHINGTON WAS UNDER ATTACK, AS WELL AS NEW YORK.
00:10:40AND THE SECRET SERVICE HAD
00:10:43STRONGLY RECOMMENDED THAT HE NOT COME BACK.
00:10:45I ALSO RECOMMENDED THAT HE NOT
00:10:47COME BACK BELIEVING THAT IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT FOR US TO STAY
00:10:51APART SO THAT WE DIDN'T BECOME A
00:10:53RIPE TARGET AND WE DIDN'T KNOW
00:10:55AT THAT STAGE WHAT WAS HAPPENING. HE DIDN'T LIKE TO HEAR THAT.
00:10:58HE DIDN'T LIKE THAT AT ALL. FOR UNDERSTANDABLE REASONS, BUT
00:11:02HE AGREED TO IT. I THINK HE SAW THE WISDOM OF IT.
00:11:05IF YOU ASK WHAT OUR REACTION
00:11:09THAT MORNING WAS, THE WAY I WENT FROM THAT SPOT AFTER I TALKED TO
00:11:12THE PRESIDENT, WENT INTO THE
00:11:14POCKET SELF AND THERE I WAS
00:11:18PRESENTED BY NORM MINETA AS OUR
00:11:21SECRETARY TRANSPORTATION AND
00:11:22RESPONSIBLE FOR A NORM HAD A
00:11:26LIST OF SIX AIRCRAFT THAT THEY BELIEVED HAD BEEN HIJACKED AT
00:11:29THAT POINT, ACTUALLY HAD FLIGHT NUMBERS ON THEM.
00:11:33AND OF COURSE, IT WAS ONLY FOUR. BUT FOR A WHILE WE THOUGHT IT
00:11:37WAS SIX.
00:11:39AND THERE WERE TWO MAJOR DRIVERS
00:11:41IN TERMS OF WHAT I THOUGHT ABOUT THAT MORNING.
00:11:45AND AS WE WORKED THROUGH THE THE CRISIS THAT DAY, NUMBER ONE WAS
00:11:48WE HAD TO GET ALL THE PLANES DOWN OUT OF THE SKY SO WE COULD
00:11:52ISOLATE WHATEVER HAD BEEN HIJACKED AND ACCOUNT FOR ALL THE
00:11:56AIRCRAFT, INCLUDING THE LIST WE HAD, THE ONES WE THOUGHT HAD BEEN HIJACKED.
00:12:00THAT POINT WOULD ACCOUNT FOR THREE OF THEM, TWO OF THEM IN
00:12:03NEW YORK AND ONE AT THE PENTAGON.
00:12:06AND SO THAT WAS A MAJOR PART OF THE EFFORT.
00:12:08AND THE OTHER THING THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT THAT I FOCUSED ON
00:12:12WAS THE CONTINUITY OF GOVERNMENT.
00:12:16SOME OF YOU ARE PROBABLY FAMILIAR WITH OVER THE YEARS,
00:12:20ESPECIALLY DURING THE COLD WAR,
00:12:20WE HAD DEVELOPED PROGRAMS AND
00:12:25PROCEDURES FOR PRESERVING THE
00:12:29CONTINUITY OF GOVERNMENT IN THE EVENT OF AN ALL OUT GLOBAL
00:12:32CONFLICT WITH THE SOVIET UNION.
00:12:34I WAS ALWAYS THE SCENARIO AND
00:12:36WE'D ACTUALLY EXERCISE THAT
00:12:38SYSTEM ON MANY OCCASIONS, AND IT
00:12:40FOCUSED ON HAVING WAYS, TAKING
00:12:46STEPS TO ENSURE THAT SOMEBODY IN
00:12:48THE LINE OF SUCCESSION SURVIVED WHATEVER KIND OF ATTACK WE WERE UNDER.
00:12:52SO THAT WHEN THE DUST SETTLED, WE'D HAVE A PRESIDENT AND A
00:12:56GOVERNMENT ABLE TO FUNCTION. AND THAT'S WHAT WE REFERRED TO AS CONTINUITY OF GOVERNMENT.
00:13:00THAT DAY.
00:13:01IT TOOK THE THE FORM BASICALLY
00:13:05OF I ONE WAS TO RECOMMEND THE PRESIDENT AND I NOT MY JOB.
00:13:09IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT FOR US TO STAY SEPARATED.
00:13:13BUT SECONDLY WAS TO GET HOLD OF DENNY HASTERT.
00:13:15OF COURSE, SPEAKER HASTERT. HE WAS OUT AT ANDREWS AIR FORCE
00:13:19BASE WHERE HIS SECURITY DETAIL
00:13:21HAD RELOCATED HIM AND WE ARRANGED FOR HIM TO BE MOVED
00:13:25FROM THERE TO A SECURE,
00:13:27UNDISCLOSED LOCATION BECAUSE HE WAS NEXT IN LINE TO THE
00:13:31PRESIDENCY. AND IF SOMETHING HAPPENED TO THE PRESIDENT AND ME, THEN DENNY WAS
00:13:34IN A POSITION TO BE ABLE TO TAKE OVER AND FUNCTION AS PRESIDENT.
00:13:38BUT THOSE WERE THE TWO SORT OF MAJOR CONCERNS THAT OCCUPIED MOST OF OUR TIME.
00:13:42ONE WAS, AS I SAY, GETTING ALL THE AIRPLANES DOWN OUT OF THE
00:13:46SKY AND THE OTHER WAS GUARANTEEING THAT THERE'D BE SOMEBODY IN THE LINE OF
00:13:52SUCCESSION IN A POSITION TO BE ABLE TO TAKE OVER RIGHT. SPEAKING OF THE SECURE
00:13:57UNDERSCORE LOCATION, MUCH OF THE TIME WHEN THE MEDIA WAS
00:14:01REPORTING THAT YOU WERE IN A SECURE, UNDISCLOSED LOCATION, YOU WERE ACTUALLY AT CAMP DAVID
00:14:05AND THAT'S WHERE YOU WENT THE EVENING OF SEPTEMBER 11TH.
00:14:09AND I REMEMBER HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH YOU MUCH LATER
00:14:12IN WHICH YOU DESCRIBE WHAT THAT
00:14:15WAS LIKE BEING AT CAMP DAVID LATE THAT EVENING.
00:14:19AND THE WAY YOU DESCRIBED IT TO ME WAS THAT THE FAMILY GATHERED AROUND THE TELEVISION.
00:14:23YOU SAT BASICALLY IN SILENCE FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS WATCHING
00:14:26RERUNS OF PLANES HITTING THE TOWERS. AND OF THE HORROR THAT DAY.
00:14:30WHAT WAS THAT LIKE? HOW LONG DID YOU DO THAT AND
00:14:34WHAT WERE YOU THINKING AT THAT POINT?
00:14:37IT WAS AFTER THE PRESIDENT HAD
00:14:41RETURNED. WE'D DONE THE WITH NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL MEETING, AND HE
00:14:45ADDRESSED THE NATION AND WHEN WE FINISHED THAT, THEN LYNNE AND I
00:14:49GOT ON THE WHITE TOP HELICOPTER
00:14:51ON THE SOUTH LAWN AND WERE FLOWN
00:14:53TO CAMP DAVID.
00:14:57IT'S THE ONLY TIME I'VE EVER TAKEN OFF A HELICOPTER OFF THE
00:15:01SOUTH LAWN WITHOUT BEING WITH THE PRESIDENT. I'VE DONE IT A LOT OVER THE
00:15:05YEARS. BUT YOU DON'T FLY OFF THE SOUTH LAWN EXCEPT IN THOSE
00:15:08EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUM STANCES.
00:15:10AND WHEN WE GOT TO CAMP DAVID,
00:15:15THEY TOOK US TO ASPEN LODGE, WHICH IS THE PRESIDENTIAL LODGE
00:15:19UP THERE. BUT AGAIN, FOR SECURITY REASONS,
00:15:22THE SECRET SERVICE WAS OBVIOUSLY
00:15:25TOTALLY FOCUSED ON AND CONCERNED
00:15:27ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY FOLLOW ON ATTACKS AND SO FORTH.
00:15:31AND ASPEN WAS THE MOST SECURE FACILITY AT CAMP DAVID.
00:15:35SO WE SPENT A COUPLE OF DAYS
00:15:37THERE AT THAT ASPEN LODGE.
00:15:41WE SAT IN THE LIVING ROOM,
00:15:44WATCHED THE TELEVISION, AND I WAS ACCOMPANIED BY MY WIFE,
00:15:47LYNNE, AND DAUGHTER LIZ, DAUGHTER MARY WAS OUT OF THE
00:15:51COUNTRY AND WE MOVED BACK BY THEN.
00:15:54BUT I CAN REMEMBER SITTING THERE
00:15:57FOCUSED, OBVIOUSLY LIKE I THINK PEOPLE WERE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY
00:16:02WATCHING THE TOWERS COME DOWN.
00:16:04THE FIRES OF THE PENTAGON AND SO FORTH.
00:16:07AND AND BEGAN TO THINK ABOUT
00:16:10WHAT WE NEEDED TO DO BY WAY OF
00:16:14POLICY, WHAT STEPS WE MIGHT TAKE
00:16:16IN ORDER TO DEAL WITH THIS THIS NEW SITUATION.
00:16:20AND THE THOUGHTS THAT CAME TO
00:16:21MIND WERE THE FIRST AND FOREMOST
00:16:24THAT THIS WASN'T JUST A TERRORIST ATTACK.
00:16:27WE'D HAD A LOT OF TERRORIST ATTACKS OVER THE YEARS.
00:16:30WE TENDED TO TREAT THEM AS LAW ENFORCEMENT PROBLEMS.
00:16:33WE'D GO OUT AND FIND THE BAD GUYS, ARREST THEM, PUT THEM ON
00:16:36TRIAL, LOCK THEM UP. THIS WAS AN ACT OF WAR.
00:16:40WE HAD 3000 DEAD AMERICANS IN A MATTER OF MINUTES THAT MORNING,
00:16:45AND WE NEEDED TO TREAT IT AS AN
00:16:48ACT OF WAR.
00:16:49AND THAT MEANT OBVIOUSLY YOU'D
00:16:52MARSHAL ALL THE RESOURCES OF THE
00:16:54FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO BE ABLE TO
00:16:58DEAL WITH TO PREVENT A FOLLOW ON
00:17:00ATTACK AND TO DEAL WITH THOSE WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT
00:17:03HAD HAPPENED. WE HAD A PRETTY GOOD IDEA THE
00:17:06AFTERNOON OF THE ATTACK THAT
00:17:08THIS WAS AL QAEDA RELATED.
00:17:12THAT WAS THE ADVICE WE WERE GETTING FROM THE INTELLIGENCE
00:17:16COMMUNITY. SO IT WASN'T A BIG MYSTERY ABOUT
00:17:19WHO WAS BEHIND IT BY THEN.
00:17:22PRETTY WELL FOCUSED IN ON OSAMA BIN LADEN.
00:17:26BUT THERE WAS A LOT WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT AL QAEDA.
00:17:30NOW, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HEARD SO MUCH ABOUT IT FOR TEN YEARS.
00:17:33THERE'S A BIT OF AN TEMPTATION TO SORT OF THINK WE KNOW
00:17:37EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT AL QAEDA.
00:17:38BUT THE THE DAY OF THE ATTACK,
00:17:41THIS WAS A GROUP OF TERRORIST.
00:17:45BUT THERE WAS SAY THERE WERE A LOT OF KEY QUESTIONS THAT THAT
00:17:47WE COULDN'T ANSWER. RIGHT. WE DIDN'T KNOW HOW BIG THEY WERE.
00:17:51WE DIDN'T KNOW WHO WAS FINANCING THEM. WE DIDN'T KNOW WHERE ALL THEY WERE OPERATING.
00:17:55THERE WAS A LOT WE NEEDED TO LEARN.
00:17:57AND THAT PARTLY DROVE OUR OUR
00:18:00SEARCH FOR INTELLIGENCE THAT GENERATED SOME OF THE THE
00:18:04POLICIES THAT WE PUT IN PLACE.
00:18:07AND BUT I SAT, AS I RECALL, AND
00:18:10MADE A SERIES OF NOTES ON A LEGAL TABLET THAT NIGHT AS I
00:18:13THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT WE WERE FACED WITH AND HOW WE MIGHT BEGIN TO
00:18:17DEAL WITH IT. AND I SORT OF CHEWED OVER IN MY
00:18:21OWN MIND WHAT WE NEEDED TO BE DOING.
00:18:23ULTIMATELY, WE ALL MET UP AT CAMP DAVID AND ALL OF US, THE
00:18:27NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL THAT WEEKEND.
00:18:29THE ATTACK, I GUESS, WAS ON TUESDAY.
00:18:32AND THAT BY FRIDAY NIGHT WE
00:18:35PRETTY WELL GATHERED UP AT CAMP
00:18:38DAVID, SPENT SATURDAY AND SUNDAY
00:18:40UP THERE WITH THE PRESIDENT AND
00:18:43CO AND PULLED TOGETHER WHAT
00:18:46ULTIMATELY EMERGED AS OUR STRATEGY FOR THE GLOBAL WAR ON
00:18:51TERROR IN THE DAYS AFTER THE
00:18:54ATTACKS, WE SAW VARIOUS PUBLIC
00:18:57OFFICIALS IN VERY PUBLIC DISPLAYS OF EMOTION.
00:19:00WE SAW PRESIDENT BUSH ALMOST COME TO TEARS IN THE OVERALL
00:19:04OVAL OFFICE. WE SAW HEARD ABOUT CONDOLEEZZA RICE GOING BACK TO THE WATERGATE
00:19:09AND BREAKING DOWN AT ONE POINT BECAUSE OF THE EMOTIONAL TOLL
00:19:13THAT THIS WAS TAKING. ON A PERSONAL NOTE, I REMEMBER COMING BACK FROM NEW YORK,
00:19:17DRIVING ACROSS THE ROOSEVELT
00:19:19BRIDGE, HEARING MARTIN SEXTON'S VERSION OF AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL
00:19:23AND I BROKE DOWN CRYING. DID YOU EVER HAVE A MOMENT LIKE THAT?
00:19:29NOT REALLY.
00:19:36I. HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE
00:19:38WILL FIND THAT VERY PECULIAR.
00:19:42YEAH, WELL, MY WIFE AND DAUGHTER
00:19:44WERE WITH ME ON THAT EVENING.
00:19:47LINDA WAS WITH ME ALL DAY, AND
00:19:49THEY SHE'D BEEN DOWNTOWN THAT
00:19:51MORNING WHEN THE ATTACK STARTED. AND THE SECRET SERVICE HAD
00:19:55BROUGHT HER OVER TO THE THE WEST WING. AND THEN SHE REALLY SAT BESIDE
00:20:00ME THROUGHOUT THE DAY AND SAID
00:20:03SHE'D PROBABLY BE THE BEST PERSON TO COMMENT ON WHAT MY MY
00:20:06MENTAL ATTITUDE WAS. I WAS FOCUSED VERY MUCH ON WHAT
00:20:10WE HAD TO DO. I WAS THINKING OF IT IN TERMS OF
00:20:13WHAT THIS MEANT, WITH RESPECT TO THE POLICY AND OUR MILITARY
00:20:17FORCES AND WHAT THE TARGETS WERE OUT THERE.
00:20:20WE MIGHT GO AFTER HOW WE MIGHT GO AFTER THEM AND SO FORTH, WHAT
00:20:23KIND OF INTELLIGENCE WE WERE GOING TO NEED IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO COPE WITH THIS NEW
00:20:27THREAT. BUT THAT'S WHAT I RECALL WAS,
00:20:29WASN'T THAT IT WASN'T A DEEPLY
00:20:33MOVING EVENT? IT CLEARLY WAS. BUT THE OTHER THING THAT THAT
00:20:39INFLUENCE FROM A PERSONAL STANDPOINT WAS THAT I HAD SPENT
00:20:43A GOOD DEAL OF TIME OVER THE YEARS ON THE CONTINUING ISSUE OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAM.
00:20:46AND I'D BEEN THROUGH EXERCISES
00:20:49WHERE THE NATURE OF THE ATTACK
00:20:52ON THE U.S. WAS FAR IN EXCESS OF
00:20:56WHAT WE ACTUALLY FACED ON 911.
00:20:58AND THEN HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, MAYBE EVEN MILLIONS OF PEOPLE
00:21:02KILLED. SO I HAD THE BENEFIT OF HAVING
00:21:04GONE THROUGH THOSE EXERCISES
00:21:08OVER THE YEARS AND HAD TRAINING JUST SORT OF KICKED IN IN TERMS
00:21:11OF THINKING ABOUT WHAT WE HAD TO DO, THAT MORNING AND THE NEXT
00:21:15DAY. RIGHT. LET'S GET TO THOSE POLICIES SPECIFICALLY.
00:21:20LET'S TALK ABOUT THE TWO THAT EVERYBODY I THINK THINKS OF AS
00:21:23THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL OF THE TERRORIST SURVEILLANCE PROGRAM. ON THE ONE HAND, AND ENHANCED
00:21:28INTERROGATIONS ON THE OTHER.
00:21:30CAN YOU DESCRIBE I THINK THERE'S
00:21:33A GENERAL SENSE AMONG THE PUBLIC THAT YOU SORT OF BRAINSTORMED
00:21:37THESE IDEAS. YOU CAME UP WITH THEM. THEY WERE YOUR IDEAS.
00:21:41YOU'VE BEEN THE MOST FIERCE
00:21:43PUBLIC ADVOCATE OF THEM.
00:21:45CAN YOU DESCRIBE HOW THE TERRORIST SURVEILLANCE PROGRAM
00:21:50CAME TO BE? SURE.
00:21:51WELL, IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN
00:21:54MIND THEY THEY.
00:21:58THEY WERE INITIATED AT DIFFERENT TIMES. THE TERRORIST SURVEILLANCE
00:22:02PROGRAM IS SOMETHING WE MOVED TO
00:22:04WITHIN DAYS OF OUR TIME WITH
00:22:08AFTER 911. THE ENHANCED INTERROGATION
00:22:12TECHNIQUES REALLY CAME IN A YEAR OR TWO LATER WHEN WE WERE IN THE BUSINESS.
00:22:16BY THEN OF CAPTURING PEOPLE LIKE KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED, WHO WE
00:22:19BELIEVE WE CAUGHT HIM IN THE
00:22:20SPRING OF OVER THREE, AND IT WAS
00:22:23THE CAPTURE OF CERTAIN KINDS OF
00:22:25INDIVIDUALS THAT LED US TO THE POINT WHERE WE NEEDED ENHANCED
00:22:30INTERROGATION. BUT COMING BACK TO YOUR BASIC QUESTION ON THE TERRORIST
00:22:32SURVEILLANCE PROGRAM, THE ORIGIN
00:22:38OF THE PROGRAM CAME REALLY FROM
00:22:42MY MIKE HAYDEN AND HIS PEOPLE AT THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY.
00:22:45AND AND GEORGE TENET WAS INVOLVED AS WELL, TOO.
00:22:49THERE HAD BEEN A CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM.
00:22:53THIS IS WITHIN A COUPLE OF DAYS
00:22:55OF OF 911, AS I RECALL, THE TWO
00:22:58OF THEM HAD TALKED AND GEORGE MENTIONED IT TO ME.
00:23:02A BASIC QUESTION BEING, ARE
00:23:04THERE ADDITIONAL THINGS THAT WE CAN DO WITH OUR OUR SIGINT
00:23:10CAPABILITIES, OUR CAPACITY TO TO
00:23:12READ THE MAIL.
00:23:16THAT WOULD HELP US DEAL WITH THE SITUATION.
00:23:19WE THEN FACED. THAT LED TO A MEETING IN MY
00:23:23OFFICE, AS I RECALL, WHERE MIKE
00:23:25CAME IN, THEN GENERAL HAYDEN,
00:23:28THEN THE HEAD OF NSA, LATER HEAD
00:23:29OF THE CIA, AND AND GEORGE TENET
00:23:34AND THE THREE OF US TALKED AND
00:23:36THERE WERE THINGS THAT THE NSA
00:23:40THOUGHT THEY COULD DO IF THEY HAD ADDITIONAL AUTHORITY.
00:23:44AND I TOOK THAT PACKAGE OF THAT
00:23:49PROPOSAL BASICALLY, AND WENT TO SEE THE PRESIDENT AND SAT DOWN
00:23:53AND WENT THROUGH IT WITH HIM. AND HE SIGNED UP TO IT.
00:23:57BUT WITH THE CAVEAT THAT HE WANTED IT VERY, VERY CAREFULLY MANAGED.
00:24:01HE WANTED TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT HE PERSONALLY APPROVED IT EACH
00:24:05STEP OF THE WAY AND THAT THEY
00:24:07HAD TO COME BACK IN FOR APPROVAL ON A REGULAR BASIS.
00:24:11WHAT EMERGED OUT OF THAT WAS A
00:24:13SIGNIFICANTLY ENHANCED CAPACITY
00:24:16FOR US TO BE ABLE TO INTERCEPT.
00:24:22COMMUNICATIONS ORIGINATING OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES,
00:24:26POSSIBLY FROM WHAT WE'VE REFERRED TO AS A DIRTY NUMBER.
00:24:28YOU CAPTURE AL QAEDA TYPE.
00:24:31HE'S GOT A COMPUTER, A ROLODEX
00:24:34OR WHATEVER IT IS, AND HE'S GOT HIS GROUP OF PHONE NUMBERS ON.
00:24:37AND AND YOU WANTED TO KNOW WHO HE WAS TALKING TO IN THE UNITED
00:24:41STATES, FOR EXAMPLE.
00:24:42AND THE SAFEGUARDS THAT WE BUILT
00:24:45INTO THAT AT THE DIRECTION OF
00:24:47THE PRESIDENT INVOLVED.
00:24:51THE FACT THAT EVERY I THINK IT WAS EVERY 30 OR 45 DAYS, IT
00:24:56EXCUSE ME, VARIED FROM TIME TO TIME.
00:24:59THE LIKE THE SECRETARY OF
00:25:00DEFENSE, THE DIRECTOR OF THE CIA
00:25:04AND NSA ALL HAD TO SIGN OFF ON
00:25:08CONTINUING THE PROGRAM. IT DIDN'T GET RENEWED
00:25:12AUTOMATICALLY. THEY ALL HAD TO SAY IN WRITING TO THE PRESIDENT THAT THEY
00:25:14THOUGHT WE SHOULD CONTINUE THE PROGRAM FROM THE STANDPOINT OF
00:25:18THE NATION'S SECURITY, ETC..
00:25:22THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAD TO SIGN
00:25:25OFF ON ALL OF THAT, THEN WENT TO THE PRESIDENT, DAVE ADDINGTON,
00:25:29WHO WORKED FOR ME, WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR CARRYING IT
00:25:31AROUND AND HE'D GET ALL THE SIGNATURES. AND THE PRESIDENT, ONCE HE WAS I
00:25:35HAD RECEIVED THIS INPUT FROM HIS
00:25:37SENIOR ADVISERS.
00:25:40THEN HE WOULD SIGN UP FOR IT AND
00:25:42EXTEND THE PROGRAM FOR ANOTHER 30 OR 45 DAYS.
00:25:45AND THAT'S THE WAY WE OPERATED IT FOR YEARS.
00:25:49I BRIEFED THE KEY MEMBERS OF
00:25:53CONGRESS. I HAD THE CHAIRMAN AND RANKING MEMBER OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE
00:25:57INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEES COME DOWN EVERY COUPLE OF MONTHS TO
00:25:59MY OFFICE AND MIKE HAYDEN WOULD
00:26:03COME IN AND GEORGE USUALLY TENET
00:26:05AND WE'D BRIEF THE THE KEY FOR
00:26:09MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO HAD JURISDICTION IN THIS AREA OVER
00:26:13WHAT WE WERE DOING AND WHAT KIND
00:26:15OF RESULTS IT WAS PRODUCING. SO THEY WERE WIRED.
00:26:17AND FROM THE BEGINNING, LATER ON, WHEN SOME CONTROVERSY AROSE
00:26:22INSIDE THE PROGRAM AND WITH THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, WE EXPANDED
00:26:27THAT GROUP OF FOUR AND NINE. WE HAD THE SPEAKER, MAJORITY AND
00:26:31MINORITY LEADERS OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE AND HAD ALL OF THEM
00:26:35IN BRIEF FOR THEM AS WELL. AND THEN I WENT AROUND AT THAT
00:26:39POINT AND ASKED THEM ALL. AT THAT POINT, NANCY PELOSI WAS
00:26:43IN THE GROUP. JAY ROCKEFELLER ARE ON THE
00:26:46DEMOCRATIC SIDE, ASKED THEM IF
00:26:50THEY THOUGHT WE SHOULD CONTINUE THE PROGRAM. THEY SAID ABSOLUTELY.
00:26:53THEN I SAID, DO YOU THINK WE OUGHT TO GO BACK TO THE CONGRESS
00:26:57AND GET ADDITIONAL LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE
00:27:00THE WAY WE OPERATED? AND THEY SAID ABSOLUTELY NOT.
00:27:04AND THEY WERE UNANIMOUS ON BOTH POINTS. THEY WERE CONCERNED THAT IF WE
00:27:06WENT UP AND ASKED CONGRESS FOR A
00:27:10VOTE ON THE SUBJECT, THAT THE
00:27:14FACT THAT WE WERE DOING IT WOULD LEAK AND WE'D IN EFFECT, BE
00:27:16TELLING THE ENEMY HOW WE WERE READING THEIR MAIL.
00:27:21SO IT WAS WAS WELL NOTICED, NOTIFIED TO THE CONGRESS.
00:27:24THERE WAS SOME CONTROVERSY LATER
00:27:28ON, BUT INTERNALLY THAT THE PRESIDENT DEALT WITH.
00:27:31BUT IT WAS, I'M CONVINCED, A KEY
00:27:34PART OF OUR SUCCESS IN TERMS OF
00:27:37PREVENTING FURTHER ATTACKS AGAINST THE UNITED STATES. I THINK WE SAVED THOUSANDS OF
00:27:40LIVES BY WHAT WE WERE DOING. I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE GREAT
00:27:44SUCCESS STORIES, ESPECIALLY WITH
00:27:46RESPECT TO NSA, HOW THEY PUT THE
00:27:50PROGRAM TOGETHER, DEVELOP THE CAPABILITY.
00:27:53NOW, ONE OF THE GREAT SUCCESS STORIES OF AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE, AND MAYBE SOMEDAY
00:27:57IT'LL ALL BE TOLD YOU'VE MADE THE SAME ARGUMENT ABOUT ENHANCED INTERROGATIONS.
00:28:01YOU'RE A STRONG BELIEVER THAT THE POLICIES, QUOTE UNQUOTE, WORKED.
00:28:06LET'S GO BEYOND THAT PART OF THE
00:28:08DEBATE AND TALK ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF ENHANCED
00:28:12INTERROGATIONS AND THE PERCEPTIONS AROUND THE WORLD
00:28:16THAT IT IS TORTURE, THAT THE THINGS THAT WE DID AMOUNTED TO
00:28:22TORTURE AND THE SENSE THAT MAYBE
00:28:25THE MORAL POSITION OF THE UNITED STATES WAS ERODED BECAUSE OF THE
00:28:29THINGS THAT WE DID HERE IN THIS COUNTRY.
00:28:33HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THOSE ARGUMENTS? IS THAT A QUESTION OR FOR THE
00:28:37INVITATION TO ARGUE THE.
00:28:40I'VE ALWAYS OFFER YOU AN INVITATION TO ARGUE NO, THOSE
00:28:43ARE THOSE ARE I MEAN, I THINK THERE ARE CRAZY. THERE ARE THERE ARE SORT OF
00:28:47CRAZY CRITIQUES AND THEN THERE ARE MORE THOUGHTFUL CRITIQUES. AND I THINK THAT'S A MORE THOUGHTFUL CRITIQUE.
00:28:51DO YOU? I DO NOT.
00:28:55I AM PERSUADED THAT THE WAY WE
00:29:01WENT ABOUT SEEKING THE AUTHORITY
00:29:05TO BE ABLE TO EXTRACT MORE
00:29:08INTELLIGENCE FROM A HANDFUL OF INDIVIDUALS, WE'RE TALKING HERE
00:29:11NOT ABOUT YOUR RANK AND FILE
00:29:14ENEMY TROOP OR SOLDIER.
00:29:16THIS DOES NOT INVOLVE THE MILITARY.
00:29:18THIS DOES NOT INVOLVE THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE. THIS IS A PROGRAM THAT WAS
00:29:24AUTHORIZED BY THE PRESIDENT, SIGNED UP TO BY THE NATIONAL
00:29:27SECURITY COUNCIL, CARRIED OUT
00:29:30WITH ALL KINDS EXCUSE ME, OF
00:29:34SAFEGUARDS BY THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY.
00:29:36WE HAD A CASE EXCUSE ME, WHERE
00:29:40WE HAD A HANDFUL OF INDIVIDU
00:29:43REBELS WHO CLEARLY HAD NO
00:29:45KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT WAS IN THE
00:29:47WORKS FROM THE STANDPOINT OF AL
00:29:50QAEDA AND WHAT THEY HOPE TO BE ABLE TO DO, HOW THEY FUNCTIONED,
00:29:54WHO THE KEY MEMBERS WERE, WHAT THEIR PLANS WERE. IT WAS PEOPLE LIKE KHALID SHEIKH
00:29:57MOHAMMED ABU ZUBAYDAH, A MAN
00:30:00NAMED ALI NASHIRI.
00:30:03THE NOTION THAT SOMEHOW THE
00:30:05UNITED STATES WAS WILDLY
00:30:09TORTURING ANYBODY IS NOT TRUE. AND ANYBODY WHO TAKES THE TIME
00:30:12TO LOOK AT THE PROGRAM, I THINK
00:30:15WILL WILL COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION.
00:30:19OBVIOUSLY, THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO DIFFER WITH RESPECT TO
00:30:21THAT PERSPECTIVE. BUT WHEN WE GET INTO THE WHOLE
00:30:25AREA, ONE OF THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL TECHNIQUES IS WATERBOARDING.
00:30:28I THINK THERE'S A PROTESTER OUT FRONT THIS MORNING WHEN I DROVE
00:30:32IN COMMENTING ON WATERBOARDING,
00:30:36THREE PEOPLE WERE WATERBOARDED, NOT DOZENS, NOT THREE.
00:30:41AND ONE WHO WAS SUBJECTED MOST
00:30:44OFTEN TO THAT WAS KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED.
00:30:46AND IT PRODUCED PHENOMENAL RESULTS FOR US.
00:30:50THERE ARE REPORTS THAT THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY DID OF
00:30:54THE RESULTS OF THE PROGRAM, WHICH WERE DECLASSIFIED AT MY
00:30:58REQUEST AND ARE NOW AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET, THAT TALK ABOUT
00:31:02THE QUALITY OF INFORMATION THAT WE GOT AS A RESULT OF OUR
00:31:06ENHANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES APPLIED TO A HANDFUL
00:31:08OF INDIVIDUALS. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ONLY A
00:31:12HANDFUL OF PEOPLE WHO WERE
00:31:16INDEED A PART OF THE AL QAIDA
00:31:19ORGANIZATION AND KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED WAS NOT ONLY THE MAN
00:31:23WHO WE THEN HAD REASON TO BELIEVE CORRECTLY, HE HAD
00:31:27BEHEADED DANIEL PEARL, A REPORTER FOR THE WALL STREET
00:31:31JOURNAL, BUT ALSO HAD CLAIMED
00:31:33CREDIT FOR THE BEING THE
00:31:36ARCHITECT OF 911, KILLED 3000
00:31:37AMERICANS THAT MORNING.
00:31:41ANOTHER KEY POINT THAT NEEDED TO
00:31:43BE MADE WAS THAT THE TECHNIQUES
00:31:48THAT WERE USED WERE ALL
00:31:51PREVIOUSLY USED ON AMERICAN
00:31:53MILITARY PERSONNEL. NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT ALL OF THEM
00:31:57HAD BEEN USED IN TRAINING FOR A
00:32:00LOT OF OUR OWN SPECIALIST IN IN
00:32:05THE MILITARY AREA. SO THERE WASN'T ANY TECHNIQUE
00:32:08THAT WE USED ON ANY AL QAIDA INDIVIDUAL THAT HADN'T BEEN USED
00:32:12ON OUR OWN TROOPS.
00:32:14FIRST, JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME
00:32:17IDEA WHETHER OR NOT WE WERE, QUOTE, TORTURING THE PEOPLE WE
00:32:22CAPTURED, THE WAY THE PROGRAM
00:32:24WORKED WAS THE THE AGENCY CAME
00:32:28IN PRIMARILY GEORGE TENET AND
00:32:31STILL DIRECTOR OF THE CIA CAME IN. HE TALKED TO ME, TALKED TO A
00:32:35COUPLE OF OTHER PEOPLE.
00:32:38BASICALLY, HE WANTED TO KNOW HOW
00:32:41FAR THEY COULD GO IN TERMS OF
00:32:45INTERROGATIONS OF THESE INDIVIDUALS THAT WE CAPTURED AND
00:32:50THE. TWO YOU REALLY NEEDED TO KIND OF SIGN OFFS.
00:32:54ONE WAS A SIGN OFF FROM THE PRESIDENT. AND SECONDLY, WAS THE RULING
00:32:58FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AS
00:33:00TO WHERE THAT LINE WAS THAT YOU COULDN'T CROSS.
00:33:04AND WE SOUGHT AND OBTAINED BOTH
00:33:06OF THOSE PRESENT, SIGNED UP TO
00:33:09IT, AS DID THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL.
00:33:13SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES MAY HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT, BUT IN FACT,
00:33:18EVERYBODY WHO WAS A MEMBER OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
00:33:22WAS INFORMED ABOUT THE ESSENCE
00:33:24OF THE PROGRAM AND AND SIGNED UP
00:33:29TO IT. SO YOU HAD THE PROPER GOVERNMENTAL AUTHORITIES
00:33:33AGREEING THAT THIS WAS NECESSARY AND WORTHWHILE.
00:33:36WE HAD THE KEY PEOPLE OVER IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, PEOPLE
00:33:40LIKE JOHN YOO, WHO HAS BEEN
00:33:43SEVERELY HARASSED BECAUSE OF THE.
00:33:47FACT THE THE LEGAL OPINION HE AND OTHERS ISSUED.
00:33:51BUT THEY WERE LEGITIMATE LEGAL OPINIONS FROM THE JUSTICE
00:33:54DEPARTMENT SAID THIS IS OKAY AND APPROPRIATE.
00:33:57THIS ISN'T GAVE US A VERY CLEAR
00:33:59GUIDANCE THAT WE COULD FOLLOW.
00:34:01AND THE FOLKS OUT AT THE AGENCY INSISTED ON THAT KIND OF
00:34:07GUIDANCE BEFORE THEY WERE WILLING TO GO FORWARD.
00:34:09NOW THEY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
00:34:12I FOUND MOST OBJECTIONABLE WITH
00:34:15RESPECT TO THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WHEN THEY CAME IN
00:34:18WAS THE INITIAL DECISION BY THE
00:34:22PRESIDENT AND ATTORNEY GENERAL HOLDER THAT THEY WERE GOING TO
00:34:25INVESTIGATE AND PROCESS SUED THE PEOPLE IN THE INTELLIGENCE
00:34:29COMMUNITY WHO HAD CARRIED OUT
00:34:33THIS INTERROGATION PROGRAM AT OUR DIRECTION.
00:34:36AND I HOPE THAT IS A TERRIBLE
00:34:38PRECEDENT TO SET. YOU'VE GOT THE UNITED STATES HAS SIGNED UP TO IT.
00:34:42HE'S THE LEGITIMATE AUTHORITY IN THIS CASE.
00:34:45THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS SIGNED UP TO IT. THESE GUYS HAVE GONE OUT AT OUR
00:34:50DIRECTION. AND AND USED THIS AUTHORITY TO
00:34:53COLLECT INTELLIGENCE AND SAID
00:34:55THAT WE BADLY NEEDED I HAVE.
00:34:57AND THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, YOU
00:34:59GET A CHANGE IN ADMINISTRATIONS AND THE NEW CROWD COME IN AND
00:35:02SAYS, WE'RE GOING TO GO PROSECUTE THOSE GUYS WHO WERE
00:35:06RESPONSE FOR CARRYING OUT THOSE POLICIES.
00:35:08I WELL, I CAME HERE TO AEI AT ONE POINT ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO,
00:35:13AND AND SPOKE ON THE SUBJECT.
00:35:16I WILL SAY THE ADMINISTRATION
00:35:18APPEARS TO HAVE REVERSED COURSE.
00:35:20ALL OF THOSE ACTIVITIES WERE
00:35:23INVESTIGATED BY CAREER LAWYERS
00:35:26IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AT THE TAIL END OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.
00:35:29THEY HAD ALL BEEN LOOKED AT BEFORE TO MAKE SURE IT WAS
00:35:33COPACETIC AND THE OBAMA
00:35:37ADMINISTRATION DID. FINALLY, AND I THINK I HOPE THE
00:35:39MATTER IS NOW RESOLVED, BACK OFF
00:35:43AND THOSE PEOPLE THAT FRANKLY, I
00:35:46THINK DIDN'T DESERVE TO BE PROSECUTED AND THAT THEY
00:35:48DESERVED TO BE DECORATED FOR THE WORK THEY DID FOR US, IT SAVED
00:35:54AGAIN, MANY, MANY LIVES. LET'S JUMP FORWARD TO THAT SPEECH, WHICH, AS YOU SAY, WAS
00:35:57MAY OF 2009 HERE AT AEI. AND IT WAS IN PART A CRITIQUE OF
00:36:01THE ADMINISTRATION'S DECISIONS ON THOSE THINGS THAT YOU MENTIONED.
00:36:05BUT IT WAS ALSO, AT LEAST THE WAY I HEARD IT, A WARNING BY A
00:36:09BY STEPPING BACK FROM THE KINDS
00:36:12OF THINGS THAT YOUR ADMINISTRATION HAD DONE, YOU
00:36:15WERE, IN EFFECT SAYING, WE'RE PUTTING WE'RE CHOOSING TO PUT
00:36:19OURSELVES AT GREATER RISK AND YET HERE WE ARE.
00:36:24SOME TWO AND A HALF YEARS LATER,
00:36:26WE HAD, OF COURSE, THE ATTACK AT FORT HOOD.
00:36:30BUT IN SPITE OF ALL OF THE THINGS THAT YOU WARNED AGAINST,
00:36:34WE HAVEN'T BEEN ATTACKED AGAIN,
00:36:38OSAMA BIN LADEN'S BEEN KILLED. A TRACKMAN APPARENTLY HAS BEEN
00:36:42TAKEN OUT. YOU'VE HAD A SERIES OF SUCCESSES
00:36:45ON AL QAIDA CENTRAL IN AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN HAS BY
00:36:49I THINK MOST ACCOUNTS, BEEN DECIMATED OR PRETTY THOROUGHLY
00:36:54TAKEN APART. WERE YOU WRONG WHEN YOU MADE
00:36:57THOSE WARNINGS IN MAY OF 2009?
00:37:01I DON'T THINK SO, STEVE.
00:37:02I WOULD ARGUE THAT THE THE
00:37:08POLICIES WE PUT IN PLACE BACK IN THOSE DAYS THAT WERE AVAILABLE
00:37:11TO US AND WERE UTILIZED OVER
00:37:15TIME AND I'VE SEEN SOME COMMENT
00:37:17TO THIS EFFECT FROM FROM CURRENT
00:37:20OFFICIALS OF THE OF THE
00:37:22GOVERNMENT HELPED PRODUCE FOR
00:37:26EXAMPLE, THE INTELLIGENCE THAT ALLOWED US TO GET OSAMA BIN
00:37:28LADEN THAT WAS OUT OF THE
00:37:32ENHANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES THAT SOME OF THE LEADS CAME THAT ULTIMATELY
00:37:36PRODUCED THE RESULT. WHEN PRESIDENT OBAMA WAS ABLE TO
00:37:40SEND IN SEAL TEAM SIX TO THE KILL BIN LADEN.
00:37:42SO I THINK IT'S BEEN A CONTENT
00:37:47UUM, IF YOU WILL, BETWEEN ADMINISTRATIONS FOCUSED,
00:37:50ESPECIALLY IN THE PART OF THE
00:37:52CAREER FOLKS IN THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY AND IN THE SPECIAL OPS
00:37:56COMMUNITY, IN THE MILITARY THAT HAVE WORKED AT OVER TIME.
00:38:00IT WASN'T JUST THAT THE THE NEW
00:38:04ADMINISTRATION CAME IN AND GEE, ALL OF A SUDDEN WE GOT BIN LADEN.
00:38:06THEY HAD THE BENEFIT OF ALL THE WORK THAT HAD BEEN DONE. SURE. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THE
00:38:10TERRORIST SURVEILLANCE PROGRAM ISN'T OPERATING AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY CONCEIVED.
00:38:13THERE ARE NO MORE ENHANCEMENTS, DEROGATIONS WE'RE BROADCASTING
00:38:17TO AL QAEDA AND OTHERS. EXACTLY HOW WE WILL INTERROGATE THEM.
00:38:20WE READ MIRANDA WARNINGS TO UMAR FAROUK ABDULMUTALLAB.
00:38:24ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT THAT YOU AND OTHERS HAVE WARNED AGAINST AND YET HERE WE ARE.
00:38:28WE HAVEN'T BEEN ATTACKED AGAIN.
00:38:30WE'VE HAD THESE MAJOR SUCCESSES. AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU WHEN THE
00:38:34BUSH ADMINISTRATION CAME TO AN END, I REMEMBER YOU MAKING THE ARGUMENT THAT YOU SHOULD BE
00:38:38JUDGED BY THE FACT, AT LEAST IN LARGE PART, THAT THAT WE HADN'T
00:38:41BEEN ATTACKED AGAIN, THAT THAT WAS A SIGN OF SUCCESS. WHY CAN'T WE USE THAT SAME
00:38:45STANDARD FOR THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION AND SAY THAT THE
00:38:47THINGS THAT THEY'RE DOING HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL?
00:38:49WELL, I GUESS I'D MAKE THE CASE
00:38:51THAT THEY'VE BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN
00:38:54PART BECAUSE OF THE CAPABILITIES
00:38:56WE LEFT THEM WITH THE INTELLIGENCE. WE LEFT THEM WITH, BECAUSE OF
00:39:00WHAT WE LEARNED FROM MEN LIKE KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED BACK WHEN
00:39:02HE WAS SUBJECTED. I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE, FOR
00:39:06EXAMPLE, NOT TO HAVE AN ENHANCED INTERROGATION PROGRAM AVAILABLE
00:39:11NOW, THE PRESIDENT, WHEN HE CANCELED OUR ENHANCED
00:39:14INTERROGATION PROGRAM, SAID THEY WERE GOING TO SET UP THEIR OWN
00:39:18FOR HIGH VALUE DETAINEES. BUT AS BEST I CAN TELL, I DON'T
00:39:22THINK THEY EVER HAVE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD DO TODAY IF THEY CAPTURED THE
00:39:26EQUIVALENT OF KHALID SHEIKH MOHAMMED, PROBABLY READ HIM HIS
00:39:30MIRANDA RIGHTS. I DON'T KNOW.
00:39:32THAT'S NOT IN MY MIND.
00:39:34IT'S A MISTAKE FOR US TO GIVE UP THOSE CAPABILITIES.
00:39:38I HOPE THAT THERE ARE NO MORE ATTACKS.
00:39:42BUT EVEN AS WE MEET HERE TODAY, EVERYBODY DROVE TO WORK WITH
00:39:45THEIR CAR RADIO ON THIS MORNING, HEARD THAT THERE'S, YOU KNOW, A
00:39:49THREAT THAT'S OF SUFFICIENT CREDIBILITY, AT LEAST AT THIS
00:39:54STAGE, THAT THE AUTHORITIES ARE SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE THAT THIS
00:39:57IS UNCONFIRMED, BUT WE'RE TAKING IT VERY SERIOUSLY. RIGHT.
00:40:01SO I THINK SAY I DO THINK IT WAS
00:40:05A MISTAKE FOR THEM NOT TO STAY AS ACTIVELY AND AGGRESSIVELY
00:40:11INVOLVED. CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER HAS WRITTEN
00:40:13A BRILLIANT PIECE ON THE NOTION THAT SOMEHOW WE OVERREACT.
00:40:17AND I DON'T THINK WE DID. I THINK WE DID EXACTLY WHAT WE HAD TO DO.
00:40:21AND THAT THE RESULTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. DO 1 OR 2 MORE FROM ME, AND THEN
00:40:25WE'LL OPEN IT UP TO QUESTIONS FROM OTHERS.
00:40:28YOU OFTEN MADE THE CASE THAT IRAQ WAS A CENTRAL FRONT IN THE
00:40:32WAR ON TERROR.
00:40:33LOOKING BACK ON IRAQ, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE SAID THAT THAT
00:40:38PEOPLE HAVE FOCUSED ON IN READING YOUR BOOK AND IN THE
00:40:41REVIEWS OF YOUR BOOK IS THE FACT
00:40:43THAT YOU DON'T THINK THAT A LOT
00:40:46OF MISTAKES WERE MADE, THAT THERE'S NOT MUCH YOU WOULD
00:40:49CHANGE ABOUT THE WAY THAT THE IRAQ WAR WAS CONDUCTED.
00:40:52AND I NOTICED IN MY READING OF THE BOOK THAT IN THE CRITICISM
00:40:57OF WHAT THE STATE DEPARTMENT
00:41:00DID, YOU OFTEN FOCUSED ON SECRETARY POWELL AND LATER SECRETARY RICE.
00:41:03BUT IN THE CRITICISM HIM OF WHAT THE PENTAGON DID, YOU FOCUSED ON
00:41:07GENERAL CASEY AND ABIZAID AND
00:41:10DIDN'T FOCUS ON YOUR FRIEND AND
00:41:12MENTOR, DON RUMSFELD. WHY IS THAT?
00:41:18WELL, I THOUGHT I WROTE A PRETTY
00:41:19GOOD BOOK YET I THOUGHT IT WAS
00:41:24RELATIVELY BALANCED.
00:41:27I CHOSE NOT TO DWELL AT LENGTH,
00:41:30SORT OF ON ON WHAT TRANSPIRED IN
00:41:34THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF OR
00:41:37GOING INTO IRAQ. I MEAN, WE HAD THERE HAVE BEEN A
00:41:40LOT OF BOOKS WRITTEN, SOME OF THEM PRETTY GOOD.
00:41:41I THINK ABOUT THE POLICY IN
00:41:46TERMS OF OF SETTING UP A NEW
00:41:48GOVERNMENT IN IRAQ OF, YOU KNOW,
00:41:50JERRY BREMER HAS WRITTEN ONE.
00:41:55SEVERAL OTHER BOOKS HAVE BEEN WRITTEN, RUMSFELD'S WRITTEN
00:41:57PRETTY EXTENSIVELY ABOUT IT.
00:42:01AND I BASICALLY TOOK THE APPROACH THAT I COULD FOCUS ON A
00:42:05FEW THINGS. AND WHAT I REALLY WANTED TO FOCUS ON WAS THE SURGE AND THE
00:42:10COUNTERINSURGENCY DOCTRINE THAT ACCOMPANIED THE SURGE THAT WE
00:42:13PUT IN PLACE AT THE BEGINNING OF OH SEVEN.
00:42:16SO THERE'S A LOT WRITTEN ABOUT THAT IN MY BOOK, BUT I DIDN'T
00:42:19SPEND A LOT OF TIME GOING BACK
00:42:23OVER WHAT THE STATE DEPARTMENT DID WITH RESPECT TO MANAGING THE
00:42:27SITUATION IN IRAQ OR WHAT THE PENTAGON DID OUTSIDE NORMAL
00:42:32MILITARY ACTIVITIES IN TERMS OF THAT. BUT IF YOU READ JERRY BREMER'S
00:42:35BOOK AND IF YOU TALK TO OTHER PEOPLE, I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE ON
00:42:38YOUR STAFF AND ELSEWHERE WHO SAID THAT YOU WERE ASKING
00:42:42QUESTIONS ABOUT THE US MILITARY STRATEGY IN IRAQ DURING THOSE
00:42:46YEARS, THAT THINGS OBVIOUSLY WEREN'T GOING WELL BY ASKING
00:42:51TOUGH QUESTIONS. WHAT IS OUR STRATEGY? DO WE KNOW HOW TO WIN?
00:42:54WHY ARE WE DOING THE SAME THING?
00:42:56IS THE TRAINING EFFECTIVE AND I
00:43:00GUESS I'M INTERESTED ON A
00:43:01PERSONAL LEVEL, WHEN DID YOU
00:43:04START ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS?
00:43:08WELL, ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, AT SOME POINT WE'LL SIT DOWN AND
00:43:11TALK ABOUT IT. I THOUGHT NOW IS I GUESS, GOOD A
00:43:14TIME AS ANY.
00:43:16NOW I KNOW I COULD HAVE.
00:43:20YOU HAVE TO MAKE CHOICES IN THE BOOK, AND WE WROTE ABOUT, WELL,
00:43:24A LITTLE LESS THAN 600 PAGES.
00:43:27AND AS I POINT OUT IN MY EARLIER
00:43:31REMARKS, I HAD MATERIAL FOR 4 OR 5 BOOKS.
00:43:35WHAT I CHOSE WAS TO FOCUS ON THE HIGHLIGHTS AS I SAW THEM AND
00:43:39WHAT I THOUGHT WAS WAS VITAL AND
00:43:42IN THAT REGARD, AND OBVIOUSLY I
00:43:44WROTE IT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE IN
00:43:48TERMS OF WHAT I SAW, WHAT I
00:43:50BELIEVED I EXERCISED A CERTAIN
00:43:54AMOUNT OF DISCRETION. I DIDN'T PUT DOWN EVERYTHING I
00:43:56KNOW ABOUT TO WHAT TRANSPIRED IN
00:44:01A WHOLE RANGE OF DIFFERENT AREAS. WILL THERE BE A SECOND VOLUME? WELL, I DON'T KNOW.
00:44:04IT DEPENDS ON HOW THIS ONE DOES. NOW, I YOU KNOW, THERE ARE
00:44:10THINGS I DIDN'T TALK ABOUT, NOT
00:44:12JUST ON IRAQ, BUT, YOU KNOW,
00:44:15THROUGHOUT MY 40 YEAR CAREER. I MEAN, WHEN YOU'RE CHIEF OF
00:44:19STAFF TO THE PRESIDENT, UNITED
00:44:20STATES, YOU YOU KNOW, YOU THERE
00:44:23ARE THINGS YOU'RE INVOLVED IN
00:44:25WHERE HE EXPECTS DISCRETION AND
00:44:27AND DESERVES IT.
00:44:29AND I DIDN'T WRITE ABOUT THOSE
00:44:32THINGS, BUT THAT'S GENERALLY TRUE OF LOTS OF THINGS.
00:44:35I AND CONNECTION WITH MY TIME
00:44:39THE PRESIDENT BUSH'S THE I THINK
00:44:43IT'S FAIR TO SAY IN BOTH CASES
00:44:48THERE ARE CONFIDENCES THAT THEY HAD ON ME AND CERTAIN ISSUES,
00:44:52AND I'VE HONORED THOSE ALWAYS WOULD ON SECOND TERM FOREIGN
00:44:55POLICY. YOU WRITE IN THE BOOK QUITE A BIT IN A CHAPTER THAT YOU NOT SO
00:44:59SUBTLY CALLED SETBACK ABOUT
00:45:03IRAN, ABOUT NORTH KOREA, ABOUT
00:45:06SYRIA, ABOUT NONPROLIFERATION ISSUES.
00:45:09AND YOU SUGGEST AT VARIOUS POINTS IN THE CHAPTER THAT THE
00:45:13BUSH ADMINISTRATION LOST ITS
00:45:15WAY, HAD ESSENTIALLY VEERED AWAY
00:45:17FROM THE BUSH DOCTRINE THAT WAS SO WELL ESTABLISHED IN THE FIRST TERM.
00:45:22AND I WONDER IF YOU THINK PRESIDENT BUSH HIMSELF SORT OF
00:45:24LOST HIS NERVE.
00:45:28I DIDN'T SAY THAT IN MY BOOK DIRECTLY. THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING YOU NOW.
00:45:32YEAH, NO, I.
00:45:34I DID WRITE A CHAPTER CALLED
00:45:36SENT BACK AND I THOUGHT IT WAS
00:45:40IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT WAS WELL,
00:45:43IT WAS A SOURCE OF FRUSTRATION FOR ME.
00:45:46IT ALSO DEMONSTRATED PRETTY CLEARLY THAT I DIDN'T WIN ALL
00:45:49THE ARGUMENTS, AND I THOUGHT
00:45:51THAT WAS IMPORTANT TO CONVEY
00:45:56THAT. AND THERE WERE THIS WAS AN AREA
00:45:59HAD TO DO WITH NORTH KOREA'S
00:46:01NUCLEAR ASPIRATIONS AND
00:46:03ACTIVITIES, BUILDING A NUCLEAR
00:46:07REACTOR FOR THE SYRIANS AND EASTERN SYRIA THAT WOULD ALLOW
00:46:10THEM ULTIMATELY TO PRODUCE NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND SO FORTH.
00:46:15IT WAS ONE WHERE THERE WERE SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES INSIDE
00:46:18THE ADMINISTRATION. I THINK MANY OF THOSE WERE KNOWN, BUT PART OF MY INTEREST
00:46:24WAS IN PUTTING DOWN THE HISTORY OF THAT PERIOD AND THE POLICY DEBATES.
00:46:27AND I THOUGHT THERE WERE LESSONS TO BE LEARNED. WE WEREN'T THE FIRST
00:46:30ADMINISTRATION THAT HAD TROUBLE FIGURING OUT HOW DO YOU GET THE
00:46:33NORTH KOREANS NOT TO GO NUCLEAR?
00:46:37THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION FACED SIMILAR PROBLEMS.
00:46:40I THINK THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WILL HAVE SIMILAR PROBLEMS AS
00:46:44WELL, TOO. BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT
00:46:46TO TO PUT DOWN THE RECORD, IF
00:46:50YOU WILL, OF HOW WE DEALT WITH IT.
00:46:53NOW, IN THE FINAL ANALYSIS, THE
00:46:56PRESIDENT MADE THE DECISION HE HAD TO MAKE CHOICES.
00:47:00THAT'S WHY HE GOT THE BIG BUCKS AND LIVED IN THE BIG HOUSE.
00:47:03THAT'S THAT'S THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE UNITED STATES.
00:47:09OBVIOUSLY, HE DIDN'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH MY ADVICE.
00:47:11AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, HE
00:47:13OPTED PRETTY MUCH FOR THE STATE DEPARTMENT VIEW OF HOW WE SHOULD
00:47:17PROCEED RATHER THAN WHAT I WAS RECOMMENDING.
00:47:21IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME I'VE LOST AN ARGUMENT WITH THE PRESIDENT. YOU THINK WE'RE LESS SAFE
00:47:25BECAUSE OF THOSE DECISIONS?
00:47:27WELL, I THINK THAT'S A WAY TO
00:47:31PUT IT WOULD BE THAT I BELIEVED
00:47:33I GAVE AN INTERVIEW BEFORE 911.
00:47:35IT WAS ACTUALLY LONG AND MAYBE
00:47:38APRIL OR MAY OF 2000, ONE. WE'D ONLY BEEN IN OFFICE A
00:47:42COUPLE OF MONTHS AND IT
00:47:46BASICALLY, I THINK WAS IN ATLANTIC, NEW YORK, NEW YORKER,
00:47:52WHERE I CITED AS THE BIGGEST
00:47:55THREAT THE NATION FACED POSSIBILITY OF A TERRORIST
00:47:58ORGANIZATION ACQUIRING WEAPONS
00:48:01OF MASS DESTRUCTION, AN AL QAEDA
00:48:03WITH NUKES KIND OF THING THAT I
00:48:08BELIEVE DEEPLY, ESPECIALLY IN THE AFTERMATH OF 911.
00:48:11AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT ON
00:48:14THE 10TH ANNIVERSARY OF 911 TO
00:48:16REMIND OURSELVES THAT THAT THREAT STILL OUT THERE, STILL
00:48:20VERY REAL AND ONE OF THE THINGS
00:48:23I THOUGHT WE DID WELL UP TO A
00:48:26POINT WAS WHEN WE WENT IN AND
00:48:29AND WE TOOK DOWN SADDAM HUSSEIN,
00:48:32OBVIOUSLY, WE ELIMINATED ONE OF THE GUYS WHO'D BEEN A PRIME
00:48:36SOURCE OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION PREVIOUSLY HAD PRODUCED AND USED THE EQUIPMENT,
00:48:41WHETHER OR NOT HE HAD STOCKPILES AT THE TIME WHEN IT WENT IN.
00:48:44HE CLEARLY WAS A PROLIFERATOR, A
00:48:48POTENTIAL PROLIFERATOR OF THAT KIND OF CAPABILITY. BUT WE GOT RID OF SADDAM HUSSEIN
00:48:51AS A THREAT. WE FIVE DAYS AFTER WE WENT IN
00:48:55AND CAPTURED SADDAM, MOAMMAR
00:48:58GADHAFI HELD A PRESS
00:49:02ANNOUNCEMENT THAT HE WAS SURRENDERING ALL OF HIS NUCLEAR MATERIALS.
00:49:04HE HAD CENTRIFUGES FOR ENRICHING URANIUM. HE HAD URANIUM FEEDSTOCKS.
00:49:08HE HAD A WEAPONS DESIGN.
00:49:12AND HE SURRENDERED ALL OF THOSE.
00:49:14AND THEY'RE NOW IN OUR POSITION POSSESSION. THE UNITED STATES HAS THEM.
00:49:18SO WE TOOK HIM OUT OF THE NUCLEAR BUSINESS PRETTY GOOD
00:49:21GIVEN WHAT'S HAPPENED SINCE IN LIBYA. IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN GOOD TO
00:49:25HAVE THE DIFFICULTIES THEY HAD HAD OVER THERE.
00:49:28SCENARIO FOR MOAMMAR GADHAFI, THEY HAD NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
00:49:31WE ALSO TOOK DOWN THE A.Q. KHAN NETWORK.
00:49:35KHAN WAS THE MASTERMIND OF THE
00:49:37PAKISTANI NUCLEAR PROGRAM. THEN HE WENT INTO BUSINESS FOR
00:49:41HIMSELF, BLACK MARKET OPERATION,
00:49:44SELLING NUCLEAR MATERIALS. HIS BIGGEST CUSTOMER WAS LIBYA.
00:49:48BUT HE ALSO WAS DEALING WITH
00:49:49NORTH KOREA AND TO SOME EXTENT, WITH IRAQ.
00:49:52SO SADDAM, MOAMMAR GADHAFI, A.Q.
00:49:55KHAN, ALL PUT OUT OF BUSINESS FROM THE STANDPOINT OF HAVING TO
00:49:59WORRY ABOUT THEM PRODUCING AND
00:50:03OR PROLIFERATING OR USING THOSE MATERIALS.
00:50:06THE ONE WE DIDN'T GET A HANDLE ON WAS NORTH KOREA.
00:50:09AND WHAT THE CHAPTER YOU
00:50:11REFERRED TO THAT I CALL SETBACK
00:50:13BASICALLY IS THE STORY OF HOW WE
00:50:16DID NOT DEAL EFFECTIVELY WITH THE NORTH KOREAN THREAT RIGHT.
00:50:20AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE KEEPING SCORE, THREE OUT
00:50:24OF FOUR IS NOT BAD.
00:50:26BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT THREAT IS VERY REAL.
00:50:29AND NORTH KOREANS ESPECIALLY
00:50:31DANGEROUS BECAUSE THEY'VE NOW TESTED TWO WEAPONS.
00:50:34THEY HAVE WE WE CAUGHT THEM RED
00:50:38HANDED WITH RESPECT TO THEIR
00:50:43PROVIDE ADDING A PLUTONIUM
00:50:46REACTOR TO ONE OF THE WORST TERRORIST SPONSORING REGIMES ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH.
00:50:51SYRIA AND FORTUNATELY FOR US,
00:50:53THE ISRAELIS TOOK THAT OUT SO WE
00:50:55DIDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT ANYMORE.
00:50:58BUT THE NORTH KOREANS CLEARLY ESTABLISHED THAT THEY WILL
00:51:01PROLIFERATE NUCLEAR MATERIALS TO
00:51:04TERRORIST SPONSORING REGIMES.
00:51:06AND THE PROBLEM THAT WE'RE FACED
00:51:11WITH IS THEY'RE STILL VERY MUCH THERE.
00:51:14AND WE DO NOT YET HAVE A HANDLE ON ON NORTH KOREA.
00:51:18THE PROBLEM, OBVIOUSLY, IS STILL IRAN, AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN TALKED ABOUT THAT.
00:51:22BUT THEY'VE GOT TO BE FRONT AND CENTER AS WELL AS THE NORTH
00:51:25KOREANS IN TERMS OF OUR CONCERNS ABOUT THAT THREAT.
00:51:29AND I DO BELIEVE STILL TODAY, AS WE MEET, THAT THAT'S THE MOST
00:51:33DANGEROUS THREAT. THE UNITED STATES FACES, IS THAT
00:51:36THAT TECHNOL AG WILL FALL INTO THE HANDS OF AN AL QAEDA TYPE
00:51:41ORGANIZATION. AND THEN NUCLEAR WEAPONS ARE NO LONGER BE A DETERRENT.
00:51:44THERE'LL BE AN INCENTIVE, RIGHT? WELL, MAYBE WE CAN TAKE A FEW
00:51:48QUESTIONS AND MAYBE WE'LL GET A QUESTION ABOUT IRAN, PLEASE.
00:51:52WHEN WHEN YOU ARE CALLED ON, WAIT FOR THE MICROPHONE.
00:51:56GIVE YOUR NAME AND YOUR
00:51:58AFFILIATION AND ASK A QUESTION. AND RATHER THAN MAKING A LONG
00:52:03STATEMENT. THANK YOU. YES, MA'AM.
00:52:06WERE YOU SURPRISED WHEN YOU FOUND OUT THAT OSAMA BIN LADEN
00:52:09WAS IN PAKISTAN? AND IN TERMS OF YOUR TALKING
00:52:13WITH PRESIDENT MUSHARRAF AT THAT TIME, THE COOPERATION THAT YOU
00:52:16HAD BETWEEN BOTH COUNTRIES, DID YOU AT ANY POINT FEEL THAT THE
00:52:20PAKISTANI AUTHORITIES HAD BEEN HIDING SOMETHING FROM THE BUSH
00:52:23ADMINISTRATION? I NEVER HAD REASON TO BELIEVE
00:52:27THAT PRESIDENT MUSHARRAF WAS
00:52:30INVOLVED IN ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
00:52:32THERE WAS I THINK THERE WAS A
00:52:36GENERAL VIEW THAT BIN LADEN WAS
00:52:40IN REMOTE AT SOME REMOTE SECTION
00:52:45OF OF PAKISTAN, NOT JUST SHORT
00:52:49WAYS FROM ISLAMABAD.
00:52:51I THINK WHAT WAS STARTLING WAS
00:52:54TO FIND THAT HE WAS LIVING WHERE HE WAS.
00:52:57HE WASN'T HIDING IN A CAVE SOMEPLACE LIKE THERE WAS A LOT
00:53:00OF THE THE IMAGERY THAT SOMEHOW HE'D GONE UNDERGROUND,
00:53:07FIGURATIVELY. I BUT I HAD NO REACH IN MY
00:53:10DEALINGS WITH PRESIDENT MUSHARRAF.
00:53:12AND I DEALT WITH HIM QUITE A BIT.
00:53:14THE QUESTION IS.
00:53:17HIS COMMITMENT TO THE WORK HE
00:53:20WAS DOING WITH US TO HELP US DEAL WITH THE THREAT THAT HAD
00:53:24EMERGED FROM PAKISTAN.
00:53:26I THINK HE CAME TO BELIEVE THAT
00:53:29AL QAEDA TYPES THREATEN HIM
00:53:33PERSONALLY, AS WELL AS HIS REGIME AS MUCH AS THEY DID THE UNITED STATES.
00:53:36AND I THINK THAT WAS TRUE 2 OR 3
00:53:39TIMES ON HIS LIFE IN A MATTER OF WEEKS BY AL QAEDA AND OR AL
00:53:44QAIDA AFFILIATED ORGANIZATIONS
00:53:49WHILE HE WAS STILL PRESIDENT.
00:53:50ANOTHER QUESTION, MR. WHITE,
00:53:54DOWN HERE IN THE FRONT.
00:54:03MR. VICE PRESIDENT, MY NAME IS JASON STERN. I'M A GRADUATE STUDENT OF MIDDLE
00:54:06EAST STUDIES AT GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY.
00:54:09I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT NO MATTER WHO WAS IN THE WHITE
00:54:12HOUSE, THE ARAB SPRING REPRESENTED A GREAT CHALLENGE. BOTH A CHALLENGE TO PROTECT OUR
00:54:16INTERESTS AND A CHALLENGE UPHOLD OUR VALUES.
00:54:20HOW WELL IS THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION RESPOND TO ARAB SPRING? AND HOW WOULD THE BUSH
00:54:24ADMINISTRATION HAVE RESPONDED DIFFERENTLY IF THEY HAD STILL BEEN IN POWER?
00:54:27THANK YOU.
00:54:29WELL, I IT'S DIFFICULT TO JUDGE
00:54:35THE QUALITY OF THE CURRENT EFFORT WITHOUT HAVING TO
00:54:39SPECULATE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO COME OUT AT THE AT THE FAR END
00:54:43OF THE PROCESS.
00:54:45AND FRANKLY, I DON'T HAVE A
00:54:53ANSWERS TO A COUPLE OF KEY QUESTIONS. I DON'T KNOW WHO'S GOING TO BE
00:54:56IN CHARGE WHEN THE DUST ROLLS
00:54:59AND NEW GOVERNMENTS ARE ESTABLISHED.
00:55:02WHAT ARE THESE REGIMES GOING TO BE LIKE? HOW ARE THEY GOING TO LOOK AT
00:55:06THE U.S.? WHAT KIND OF RELATIONSHIPS ARE WE GOING TO HAVE?
00:55:09IN SOME CASES, SOME OF THE
00:55:11REGIMES THAT HAVE BEEN REPLACED,
00:55:17LIKE PRESIDENT MUBARAK IN EGYPT, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE BEEN GOOD
00:55:20FRIENDS AND ALLIES OF THE UNITED STATES OVER THE YEARS.
00:55:23WE'RE CLOSELY TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE FIRST GULF WAR, FOR EXAMPLE.
00:55:26SO I IF YOU IF YOU'RE ÉVALUÉ
00:55:31RATING THE OUTCOME IN TERMS OF U.S. INTEREST, I THINK THERE'S A
00:55:35LOT WE DON'T YET KNOW ABOUT
00:55:39ABOUT THE OUTCOME IN TERMS OF WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD BE
00:55:43SUPPORTIVE.
00:55:43I THINK THAT IT IS IMPORTANT FOR
00:55:49US TO CONTINUE TO EXPRESS OUR
00:55:51SUPPORT OF CERTAIN VALUES, THAT
00:55:53WE BELIEVE PEOPLE OUGHT TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE BY.
00:55:57WE BELIEVE IN FREEDOM AND
00:55:59DEMOCRACY AND I THINK THAT NEEDS
00:56:03TO COME THROUGH THAT. BUT AGAIN, YOU GOT TO COME BACK
00:56:06AND BE CAUTIOUS HERE. I THINK IN TERMS OF ARE WE
00:56:11PROMOTING THAT PROCESS WITH
00:56:14RESPECT TO ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST OR TO GROUPS OR
00:56:19ORGANIZATIONS THAT MAY HAVE WON AN ELECTION AND THEN NOW SHUT
00:56:22DOWN THE ELECTORAL PROCESS AND
00:56:24YOU'LL HAVE THE EQUIVALENT OF HAMAS RUN ON GAZA?
00:56:29WE DON'T KNOW YET. AND I THINK IT'S DIFFICULT TO
00:56:32MAKE A FINAL JUDGMENT UNTIL WE SEE HOW SOME OF THOSE THINGS DEVELOP.
00:56:36SHOULD THE UNITED STATES BE TAKING A MORE OUT FRONT ROLE IN
00:56:40PROMOTING THE ARAB SPRING?
00:56:42WELL, TO DO I'M I'M CAUTIOUS, STEVE.
00:56:47PARTLY. BECAUSE THERE ARE THINGS WE DON'T KNOW.
00:56:52BUT ALSO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO BE A LITTLE CAUTIOUS
00:56:55ABOUT LUMPING THEM ALL TOGETHER
00:56:58AND MY EXPERIENCE OVER THE YEARS WITH THAT PART OF THE WORLD IS
00:57:02IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THESE ARE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.
00:57:04IN SOME CASES, THERE ARE LINGUISTIC DIFFERENCES AND SOME
00:57:08CASES THERE ARE RELIGIOUS DIFFERENCES OR SPLITS BETWEEN
00:57:13SHIA AND SUNNI, AND IN SOME
00:57:17CASES YOU'VE GOT GOVERNMENTS THAT I THINK ARE PROBABLY VIEWED
00:57:20AS LEGITIMATE IN THE EYES OF THE
00:57:22GOVERNED AND OTHERS, WHERE
00:57:24CLEARLY SYRIA COMES TO MIND.
00:57:26YOU'VE GOT A BRUTAL DICTATOR
00:57:28WHO'S IN CHARGE AND USING
00:57:31VIOLENCE TO TRY TO PRESERVE HIS HOLD ON POWER.
00:57:33AND MOST OF US COULD AGREE THAT
00:57:36THAT BASHIR ASSAD OUGHT TO GO.
00:57:40SO YOU NEED TO MAKE THOSE KINDS OF JUDGMENTS. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE ARAB
00:57:46SPRING. I THINK I UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS.
00:57:49AND I THINK GENERALLY IT'S BEEN
00:57:51WELCOMED AS A FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE
00:57:55IN REFORM, IF YOU WILL, IN THE REGION.
00:57:57BUT I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO
00:57:59KEEP IN MIND, AS WE EVALUATE
00:58:02THESE DEVELOPMENTS, THAT EACH
00:58:05AND EVERY ONE OF THESE COUNTRIES
00:58:07IS DIFFERENT AND NEEDS TO BE
00:58:11DEALT WITH ACCORDINGLY. NEXT QUESTION.
00:58:15YES, OVER THERE IN THE FRONT.
00:58:23ALLISON EVERSON, I'M YOUR AVERAGE CITIZEN WHO'S HERE.
00:58:26I HAVE A QUESTION. WHEN DO WE KNOW WE WON THE GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR?
00:58:31WHEN DO WE KNOW WE WON THE GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR?
00:58:34WELL, THE.
00:58:37FACTS ARE OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S
00:58:40IT'S NOT SIMILAR TO WHAT WE
00:58:44THINK OF AS A CONVENTIONAL WAR
00:58:47WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE GET THE BATTLESHIP MISSOURI AND STEAMING
00:58:50INTO TOKYO HARBOR. AND YOU HAD ALL THE GUYS THERE
00:58:54TO SIGN A DOCUMENT SAYING, WE QUIT. THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
00:58:59AND I THINK THERE IS EVIDENCE OUT THERE THAT WE'RE MAKING
00:59:02SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS.
00:59:03I THINK GETTING OSAMA BIN LADEN
00:59:07VERY IMPORTANT. AND VERY USEFUL, DEMONSTRATED
00:59:12PART OF THAT PROCESS.
00:59:13BUT I THINK ALSO IT MAY BE THE
00:59:18KIND OF THING THAT JUST GRADUALLY FADES OVER TIME.
00:59:21BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S GOING
00:59:24TO BE THAT THERE'S LIKELY TO BE KIND OF AHA MOMENT WHEREIN SAY
00:59:28THAT ARE THERE. IT'S DONE.
00:59:32I DON'T THINK IT'S LIKELY TO TAKE A COUPLE MORE.
00:59:38SURE. I SUPPOSE IF I COULD TAKE YOU
00:59:41BACK TO YOUR EARLIER COMMENTS ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST AND BRING
00:59:45IT BACK IN HISTORY, THE GREAT
00:59:47CONTROVERSY AT THE CLOSE OF THE BUSH 41 ADMINISTRATION WAS
00:59:51GENERAL NORMS. SCHWARZKOPF ASSERTION THAT HAD
00:59:55WE CONTINUED, THE MARCH WAS THE PHRASE WE USED, THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT OUTCOME.
00:59:59WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT OUTCOME WOULD HAVE BEEN HAD HIS ADVICE
01:00:01BEEN PURSUED IN THAT REGARD? HOW WOULD THAT HAVE CHANGED THE
01:00:05COURSE OF EVENTS? WELL.
01:00:08JOHN'S TALKING ABOUT WHEN HE AND
01:00:11I WERE IN CHARGE OF THE PENTAGON, I WAS THE SECRETARY,
01:00:15BUT HE WAS THE CONTROLLER WHO WERE ALL AMONG.
01:00:20AND THE IT WAS, I THINK, BACK ON
01:00:24THAT I AM CAREFUL HERE NOT TO
01:00:28CHALLENGE MY COLLEAGUES FROM THAT ERA BECAUSE I THINK THEY
01:00:31ALL DID THE GOOD WORK.
01:00:34BUT I MY RECOLLECTION OF THE
01:00:38CLOSE OF THE GULF WAR WAS THAT
01:00:41THERE WAS UNANIMITY ON THE PART
01:00:43OF THE PRESIDENT OF HIS SENIOR
01:00:47CIVILIAN AND MILITARY ADVISERS
01:00:52THAT WE GATHERED AROUND THE DESK IN THE OVAL OFFICE.
01:00:55WE HAD A SECURE LINE OPEN TO
01:01:00RIYADH, WHERE OUR SENIOR MILITARY COMMANDER, GENERAL
01:01:04SCHWARZKOPF, WAS. AND YOU KNOW, YOU COULD LOOK
01:01:07BACK ON IT LATER AND SAY, WELL, WE SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE THIS OR
01:01:11WE SHOULDN'T HAVE LET THEM HAVE HELICOPTERS OR THERE WERE THINGS
01:01:13WE DIDN'T KNOW AT THE TIME.
01:01:17BUT THERE WAS A GENERAL SENSE THAT WE'D DONE WHAT WE SET OUT
01:01:20TO DO, SAID WE WERE GOING TO LIBERATE KUWAIT. THAT'S WHAT CONGRESS HAD
01:01:24AUTHORIZED. SO WHAT THE U.N. SECURITY COUNCIL HAD SIGNED UP TO, THAT'S
01:01:27WHAT WE TOLD THE COALITION AND THAT'S WHAT WE TOLD OUR TROOPS
01:01:29WE WERE GOING TO DO. AND I HAD PROMISED WHEN I'D GONE OVER THERE INITIALLY TO GET
01:01:33PERMISSION TO PUT U.S. FORCES INTO SAUDI.
01:01:37I'D ALSO PROMISED THEM AS SOON AS WE'D COMPLETED THE MISSION,
01:01:41WE'D GO HOME. WE WERE NOT LOOKING FOR
01:01:43PERMANENT BASES IN SAUDI ARABIA
01:01:47AND SO THERE WAS A GENERAL SENSE
01:01:51THAT NOW, SHOULD WE HAVE GONE
01:01:52ALL THE WAY TO BAGHDAD, THEN
01:01:57CIRCUMSTANCES WERE PRETTY DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT.
01:01:59TEN YEARS LATER, AFTER WE'D HAD THE EVENTS OF 911, AFTER WE'D
01:02:04SEEN SADDAM VIOLATE 16 ON A 17
01:02:07U.N. SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS AND PRODUCE A NEWS
01:02:11WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION
01:02:13AGAINST HIS OWN PEOPLE. YOU KNOW, THE WORLD HAD SHIFTED.
01:02:18TEN YEARS LATER AND IF WE'D GONE
01:02:22IN, IF THERE WAS A WAY TO DO ONE
01:02:26THING I COULD THINK OF, THAT I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE CHANGED.
01:02:30IT WOULD HAVE BEEN TO HAVE
01:02:33SADDAM AT THE TABLE SIGNING THE
01:02:35SURRENDER DOCUMENT THAT ONE OF
01:02:37THE THINGS THAT EMERGED OUT OF
01:02:40THE WAY IT WAS DEALT WITH WAS HE
01:02:43HE WAS VERY CREATIVE AND DIDN'T
01:02:48HAVE ANY QUALMS ABOUT
01:02:52MISREPRESENTING THE SITUATION. BUT FOR YEARS AFTERWARDS, HE
01:02:54PEDDLED HIMSELF AS SOMEBODY WHO
01:02:57HAD DEFIED AND SUCCESSFULLY
01:03:00DEFIED THE GREAT SATAN, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
01:03:03BECAUSE, AFTER ALL WE'D DONE TO HIM, HE WAS STILL STANDING.
01:03:07IT WAS THE FACT THAT HE WAS STILL STANDING, THAT HE USED TO
01:03:11DEMONSTRATE OR VALIDATE THE NOTION THAT HE'D WON.
01:03:15AND OF COURSE, HE HADN'T. BUT HE WAS ABLE TO PEDDLE THAT
01:03:18IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD.
01:03:19AND SO IF I COULD THINK OF ONE THING THAT I MIGHT HAVE LIKED TO
01:03:23HAVE SEEN DIFFERENTLY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN TO GO INTO BAGHDAD AT
01:03:27THAT POINT, BUT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN TO HAVE HIM, YOU KNOW, SET
01:03:30HIS FAMILY DOWN IN THE CHAIR AND
01:03:32SIGN THE SURRENDER DOCUMENT.
01:03:41YES, SIR. MY NAME IS, SAID ERICA FROM THE
01:03:45DAILY NEWSPAPER I'M SORRY, FROM MY NAME SITE.
01:03:49ERICA FROM AMERICA'S DAILY NEWSPAPER. BUT I ALSO SERVED IN IRAQ FOR
01:03:52FIVE YEARS AS A UNITED NATIONS SPOKESMAN. AND I CAN TELL YOU, SIR, THAT
01:03:56IRAQ IS A DISASTER ZONE WITH A VERY LITTLE CHANCE TO RECOVER FOR DECADES TO COME.
01:04:00IRAN HAS ALMOST TOTAL HEGEMONY, AND THE UNITED STATES IS ABOUT
01:04:04TO CUT AND RUN. IN RETROSPECT, WASN'T IT A MISTAKE TO INVADE IRAQ?
01:04:07WELL, I THINK IT WOULD BE A MISTAKE TO CUT AND RUN.
01:04:11I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD.
01:04:17TURN OUR BACK ON IRAQ AT THIS STAGE. AND THE EFFORTS THAT WE'VE
01:04:22MOUNTED THERE OVER THE YEARS, I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR US
01:04:25TO COMPLETE THE MISSION.
01:04:26AND I, I THINK MY OWN PERSONAL
01:04:31VIEW IS THAT THERE'S A DANGER
01:04:35HERE OF A RUSH FOR THE EXITS UNDER THE CURRENT
01:04:39ADMINISTRATION. AND THAT WOULD BE REALLY
01:04:44UNFORTUNATE. ONE MORE QUICK ONE. SURE. RUN WITH IT.
01:04:48I AND THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER.
01:04:50PRESIDENT BUSH, IN HIS MEMOIR, WHICH DOESN'T PURPORT TO COVER
01:04:54THIS WHOLE ADMINISTRATION MISSION, DOESN'T REALLY MENTION
01:04:56IRAQ FROM THE SPRING OF OH THREE, THE SPRING OF OH SIX.
01:04:59WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE CRITICISM THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS
01:05:05INSUFFICIENTLY MONITORING HIS
01:05:08GENERALS AND NOT ELICITING EARLY ENOUGH OR AS EARLY AS DESIRABLE,
01:05:11SOMETHING ON THE ORDER OF THE
01:05:14SURGE STRATEGY, WHICH WAS ULTIMATELY DEVELOPED AT THE END
01:05:17OF OH SIX AND OH SEVEN, EARLY OH SEVEN. COULD THAT HAVE BEEN DONE
01:05:21EARLIER? HMM. WELL, I.
01:05:27I'M INCLINED, MICHAEL, FIRST OF ALL, WHAT I REMEMBER IS THAT THE
01:05:31PRESIDENT WAS HEAVILY ENGAGED DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME.
01:05:34HE WAS NOT BY ANY MEANS IGNORING
01:05:37WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE IN THE
01:05:40OPERATIONS IN IRAQ.
01:05:43WE HAD FAIRLY REGULAR SESSIONS
01:05:48WHERE HE WOULD GET ON THE SECURE
01:05:52HOOK UP TO TO BAGHDAD, NOT ONLY
01:05:55WITH OUR OWN SENIOR PEOPLE, BUT ALSO WITH THE SENIOR IRAQIS.
01:06:00I'VE GOT A PICTURE.
01:06:02THERE'S A PICTURE I PUT IN MY
01:06:04BOOK OF RUMSFELD AND RICE AND I
01:06:08UP AT CAMP DAVID AND DOESN'T
01:06:11SHOW THE PRESIDENT BECAUSE HE'S ON THE OTHER END IN BAGHDAD.
01:06:14AND WE'VE GOT A SECURE HOOK UP
01:06:16DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME.
01:06:19HE'S GONE INTO BAGHDAD AND HE'S
01:06:21OVER THERE VISITING WITH HAVING
01:06:23AN IMPORTANT SESSION WITH THEN
01:06:27PRIME MINISTER MALIKI. SO I DON'T THE NOTION THAT
01:06:29SOMEHOW HE TURNED HIS BACK ON OR
01:06:31WASN'T FOCUSED ON WASN'T
01:06:34ENGAGED, I WOULD I WOULD CHALLENGE THAT.
01:06:37I DON'T THINK THAT'S TRUE.
01:06:39LET ME TAKE THE PREROGATIVE OF ASKING ONE LAST QUESTION,
01:06:42BRINGING THIS SORT OF BACK TO 911.
01:06:44YOU'VE MADE THE CASE THAT 911 CHANGED THE GOVERNMENT, AND I
01:06:48THINK THAT'S OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE. IN MANY RESPECTS, IT CHANGED THE
01:06:51COUNTRY, CLEARLY CHANGED THE WORLD. DID IT CHANGE, YOU?
01:06:57THE 911 CHANGED ME.
01:07:01WELL, IT WAS.
01:07:03I DON'T THINK IT CHANGED ME IN
01:07:07THE SENSE THAT SOME HAVE SUGGESTED THAT, YOU KNOW, I I'VE
01:07:11GOT FRIENDS OUT THERE USED TO BE
01:07:13FRIENDS WHO SAY I KNEW CHENEY
01:07:18WHEN WHEN HE WAS A NICE GUY, WAS WARM AND FUZZY.
01:07:20BUT I DON'T KNOW HIM NOW.
01:07:25AND, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER NIGHT I DID JAY LENO. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER ANYBODY
01:07:28HERE SAW, BUT THEY HAVE WHAT
01:07:31THEY CALL A COLD OPEN.
01:07:33AND THE PROGRAM BEGINS WITH A J
01:07:36IN GREETING HIS GUEST FOR THAT EVENING.
01:07:39HE'S WEARING BLUE JEANS AND SO FORTH AND GOT HIS SUIT ON YET.
01:07:43AND HE ASKED ME IF I'M GOING TO
01:07:46WEAR THE SUIT THAT'S THERE ON A
01:07:48HANGER ON THE SHOW THAT NIGHT. AND AT THAT POINT, I OPENED THE DOOR AND COME OUT OF THE
01:07:54DRESSING ROOM AND I'M DRESSED AS DARTH VADER.
01:08:00WHICH HE WAS. HE WAS PART OF THE JOKE.
01:08:02BUT IT IT DIDN'T HELP MY IMAGE
01:08:05ANY AS MORE THAN I DON'T, I
01:08:12SUPPOSE I DON'T I CAN'T SAY IT DIDN'T CHANGE ME.
01:08:15IT'S PART OF MY LIFE AND IT WAS
01:08:17AN IMPORTANT MILESTONE FOR ALL
01:08:21OF US. AND OBVIOUSLY I SPENT THE NEXT
01:08:25SEVEN AND A HALF YEARS WORKING WITH THE PRESIDENT AND AND OUR
01:08:29COLLEAGUES TO TRY TO MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THAT THAT NEVER HAPPENED AGAIN ON OUR
01:08:33WATCH. AND THAT MEANT WE HAD TO TAKE
01:08:36STEPS AND ENACT POLICIES THAT WERE GOING TO GUARANTEE THE
01:08:39SAFETY AND SECURITY OF OF THE
01:08:42AMERICAN PEOPLE. I SORT OF SEE IT AS, OKAY,
01:08:46HERE'S THE PROBLEM. THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT.
01:08:48AND THEN WE DID IT.
01:08:53THE NOTION THAT.
01:08:57OF CHANGE MAINLY CAME TO FOCUS
01:09:01IN MY OWN MIND AND SAY, I'D THOUGHT BEFORE ABOUT THIS
01:09:05PROBLEM OF 911 STYLE ATTACK,
01:09:09TERRORIST ATTACK WITH DEADLIER WEAPON, SOMETHING OTHER THAN BOX
01:09:13CUTTERS AND AIRLINE TICKETS. BUT THE EVENTS OF 911 REALLY
01:09:16BROUGHT THAT HOME.
01:09:17AND I, I THINK IT IT HEIGHTENED
01:09:22MY CONCERN IF AND BE A FAIR WAY
01:09:24TO PUT IT ABOUT THE POTENTIALLY
01:09:29DEVASTATING CONSEQUENCES. I MEAN WE YOU KNOW, WE HAD
01:09:32ANTHRAX ATTACKS AT THE SAME TIME. TURNED OUT THOSE WERE PROBABLY
01:09:36DOMESTIC ONLY INITIATED. WE HAD ONE NIGHT I REMEMBER
01:09:40BEING AT THE AL SMITH DINNER UP IN NEW YORK A MONTH AFTER 911.
01:09:46AND AS WE LANDED THAT DAY TO GO
01:09:49DOWN TO THE WALDORF WHERE I WAS THE GUEST SPEAKER FOR THE
01:09:53EVENING, RECEIVED WORD THAT
01:09:56THERE'D BEEN A BOTULISM ATTACK AT THE WHITE HOUSE. ONE OF THE DETECTORS HAD GONE
01:10:00OFF SUGGESTING THAT THE PRESIDENT AND I AND AND OTHERS
01:10:03HAD BEEN EXPOSED TO BOTULISM
01:10:05TOXIN, WHICH IS DEADLY, DEADLY.
01:10:09AND WE DIDN'T KNOW FOR SEVERAL HOURS WHETHER IT WAS TRUE OR NOT OR FALSE READING TURNED OUT TO
01:10:13BE A FALSE READING, FORTUNATELY. BUT, YOU KNOW, SO THERE WAS
01:10:17THERE WAS A LEVEL OF OF
01:10:19HEIGHTENED CONCERN IN THE
01:10:21IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF 911 THAT
01:10:24WE HAD TO DEAL WITH. IT WAS LIKE ON 911, YOU GET A
01:10:29REPORT THAT THERE ARE SIX PLANES HIJACKED. TURNS OUT THERE WERE ONLY FOUR.
01:10:33THAT WAS ENOUGH REPORT THAT THERE WAS A CAR BOMB AT THE
01:10:37STATE DEPARTMENT. TURNED OUT THERE WAS NO CAR BOMB AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT.
01:10:40TURNED OUT THERE WAS THERE WAS A
01:10:43REPORT OF A PLANE THAT HAD GONE DOWN ON THE OHIO WEST VIRGINIA
01:10:48BORDER. NO, THAT WAS AMERICAN 77.
01:10:51THAT SIMPLY DROPPED OFF THE RADAR AND HIT THE PENTAGON.
01:10:55THERE WAS A REPORT OF A PLANE DOWN IN PENSILVA, NEAR SHANKSVILLE.
01:10:59TURNED OUT THAT WAS TRUE. THAT WAS UNITED 93.
01:11:02SO, YOU KNOW, AS WE WENT THROUGH THAT PROCESS IN THE IMMEDIATE
01:11:07AFTERMATH, BOTH AS WERE PUTTING TOGETHER POLICIES AND SO FORTH,
01:11:09THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT WHAT
01:11:11THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT ELEVATED LEVEL OF CONCERN.
01:11:14AND I FELT IT LIKE I THINK MOST OF US DID. BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW I COULD
01:11:18HAVE DONE MY JOB IF I HADN'T.
01:11:20AND I FELT THAT PART OF MY JOB
01:11:24WAS AS THE PRESIDENT'S WAS TO
01:11:29MAKE CERTAIN THAT WE NEVER AGAIN
01:11:31GOT HIT THE WAY WE DID ON 911.
01:11:35WELL, WITH THAT, I'D LIKE TO THANK MR. VICE PRESIDENT AND THANK THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE
01:11:40INSTITUTE FOR HOSTING.
01:11:40AND THANK ALL OF YOU FOR COMING.
01:11:46IN. WELL, THANK YOU. THANKS SO MUCH.
01:11:50THANKS SO MUCH, STEVEN. VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY AIR
01:11:54EXTRAORDINARILY GRATEFUL TO HAVE A FRIEND LIKE YOU, A SCHOLAR,
01:11:58STATESMAN AND MAN OF ACTION, WHICH REPRESENTS HIS AMBITIONS
01:12:00SO WELL. WE'RE SO THANKFUL FOR YOUR TIME
01:12:04THIS MORNING, MRS. CHENEY. LIZ CHENEY, THANKS FOR BEING HERE. THANKS FOR ALL OF THE QUESTIONS
01:12:08THIS MORNING. WE'LL LET YOU GET OUT OF HERE. I THINK YOU'VE GOT SOME MEDIA
01:12:12INTERVIEWS RIGHT AFTER THIS. AND THEN WE'LL EXCUSE US THE CROWD.
01:12:15THANKS AGAIN.
01:12:47FOR.
01:12:54ALL. VERY, VERY GOOD.
01:12:59GOOD.
01:13:03WORK YOU DO.
01:13:09NOW.
01:13:16YOU'RE. THINKING.
01:13:20FROM COMING OUT.
01:13:22SO YOU'RE BUSY.
01:13:26WATCHING WHAT YOU READ ARTICLES.
01:13:31ON THE OUTSIDE.
01:13:35SO GREAT TO SEE THAT EVERYONE.
01:13:42THAT MAKES A GREAT.
01:13:53AMERICAN WEEKEND. I THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE SURPRISED.
01:13:55THEY'VE NEVER HEARD ABOUT A LOVE STORY COMING OUT FROM SUCH A
01:13:59TERRIBLE SITUATION.
01:14:09MY NAME'S RAFE GRECO. MY NAME IS BIANCA GRECO.
01:14:11ON SEPTEMBER 11TH, I WAS IN
01:14:15TOWER ONE ON THE BEFORE LEVEL FOUR LEVELS BELOW GROUND.
01:14:19I WORKED FOR TURNER CONSTRUCTION. THERE WERE A GENERAL CONTRACTOR
01:14:21IN THE BUILDING FIXING UP THE MECHANICAL ROOMS.
01:14:25I HEARD THE ELEVATOR FALLING IN
01:14:28THE SHAFTS. AND THEN THERE WAS A RUSHING
01:14:32EXPLOSION SOUND THAT ENTERED OUR OFFICE.
01:14:34I WASN'T SURE WHAT WAS HAPPENING. WE WERE VERY CONFUSED.
01:14:37THERE WAS SMOKE. THERE WAS EXPLOSION. WE COULDN'T EXIT THE LOCKED
01:14:41DOORS AND OUT OF THE SMOKE CAME
01:14:43A MAN I'LL NEVER FORGET HIS NAME. ED MCCABE.
01:14:46HE WAS A MAINTENANCE MAN, AND HE HAD THE KEYS TO UNLOCK THE DOOR
01:14:49TO ALLOW US TO ESCAPE FROM.
01:14:51I STEPPED OUT OF THE MALL ONTO
01:14:54VESEY STREET. AND AS SOON AS I HIT THE
01:14:57SIDEWALK, THERE WAS A LOUD BOOM. AND IT WAS THE SECOND PLANE GOING IN.
01:15:01AND I COULD HEAR THE DEBRIS COMING LIKE RAIN APPROACHING.
01:15:05IT STARTED TO HIT FLAMING DEBRIS IN FRONT OF ME AS I'M RUNNING.
01:15:09SO I GOT UNDER A CAR AND WAITED
01:15:11TILL IT GOT QUIETER AND I CRAWLED OUT.
01:15:14AND I REMEMBER SEEING SOMEONE AND ALSO CRAWLING OUT.
01:15:17AND HIS BACK WAS ON FIRE. I REMEMBER JUST KIND OF SAYING,
01:15:21OH MY GOD, YOU'RE ON FIRE. AND I HELPED TAP OUT THE FIRE. WE LOOKED AT EACH OTHER FOR A
01:15:25MOMENT AND THERE WAS JUST HORROR IN BOTH OF OUR FACES. AND I TURNED BACK AND LOOK AT
01:15:28THE TOWERS, AND THEY WERE BOTH ON FIRE.
01:15:31AND MY FIRST INSTINCT WAS JUST TO GET AWAY AS FAR AS POSSIBLE.
01:15:35SO I GOT ON THE TRAIN AND GOT OUT OF THERE. AND AS SOON AS I GOT IN THE
01:15:39BRONX, ALL THE TRAINS STOPPED.
01:15:40I WAS WORKING IN CONSTRUCTION IN
01:15:43TIMES SQUARE WHEN THE PLANES
01:15:45STRUCK THE BUILDINGS.
01:15:47I ENDED UP GOING IN LATER THAT
01:15:49NIGHT, AND I'VE NEVER BEEN TO WAR.
01:15:52YOU KNOW, I'VE NEVER SEEN WAR UP CLOSE.
01:15:54BUT IF I WAS TO IMAGINE IT, IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
01:15:57THERE WAS DEBRIS FALLING FROM OTHER BUILDINGS.
01:16:00I HAD BEEN WILDING ABOUT 15 YEARS AT THAT POINT.
01:16:04SO I GOT ON A TORCH AND I STARTED CUTTING. IT WAS VERY DISORIENTING.
01:16:08EVERYTHING WAS GRAY. ALL OF THE STREET SIGNS WERE COVERED UP. YOU COULDN'T TELL WHERE YOU WERE.
01:16:12AND I KNEW THE AREA. WATCH THE RIGHT SIDE OF YOUR SCREEN OR THEY WERE PLAYING ON
01:16:16THE TV WAS A RIP OUT OF THE PLANES HITTING.
01:16:18AND I SAID, I CAN'T STAY HOME ANYMORE. I CALLED MY COMPANY AND THEY PUT
01:16:24ME THERE. BY THAT FRIDAY. I WAS THERE ON SITE.
01:16:26I WAS STATIONED AT BUILDING SEVEN AT THE REMOVALS AND RAFE WAS WORKING FOR US.
01:16:32SUB-COUNTY ACTOR THAT WAS DOING THE ACTUAL DEMOLITION WORK.
01:16:35WE MET ON SITE.
01:16:37SHE WOULD CHECK THE SIGNATURES AND NAMES AND PEOPLE WOULD COME
01:16:41IN AND OUT. AND SO WHEN I WENT TO SIGN IN, I
01:16:43WROTE ON A PIECE OF PAPER, YOU KNOW, WOULD YOU HAVE LUNCH?
01:16:49AND WE WENT OUT TO LUNCH.
01:16:52I THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE SURPRISED. THEY'VE NEVER HEARD ABOUT A LOVE
01:16:55STORY COMING OUT FROM SUCH A
01:16:57TERRIBLE SITUATION.
01:16:59I THINK ME PERSONALLY, AFTER
01:17:01GOING THROUGH ESCAPING ON 911,
01:17:04IT WAS HARD TO TALK TO ANYONE ELSE.
01:17:07FOR ANYONE ELSE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE WERE GOING THROUGH. WE DIDN'T GET MARRIED TILL ABOUT
01:17:1111 YEARS LATER, OFFICIALLY, BUT WE WERE TOGETHER.
01:17:15YEAH, FROM RIGHT. FROM RIGHT THEN.
01:17:18NOW OUR FAMILY IS THAT WE HAVE TWO KIDS.
01:17:22GROUND ZERO IS A BIG PART. I THINK, OF OUR HISTORY AND OF
01:17:25OUR LIFE. IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT,
01:17:29IT'S VERY EASY, EASIER FOR US TO
01:17:31IDENTIFY WITH EACH OTHER WHEN WE TALK ABOUT IT AND THE EXPERIENCES WE HAD.
01:17:35YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I'M GRATEFUL
01:17:37TO GOD THAT WE'RE STILL HEALTHY.
01:17:40I MEAN, SO MANY OF OUR COWORKERS HAVE NOT MADE IT 25 YEARS FROM
01:17:44WORKING ON SITE.
01:17:46SO I'M DEFINITELY GRATEFUL THAT
01:17:48WE'RE STILL HERE AND WE'RE STILL HEALTHY AND WE'RE STILL
01:17:52TOGETHER. SO THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS TO BE GRATEFUL FOR.
01:17:5525 YEARS