Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00CLINTON. AND THANK YOU ALL COMING TONIGHT.
00:00:03AND FOR OUR SERIES. JUST REMEMBER TO COME BACK NEXT
00:00:07YEAR. THANK YOU.
00:00:15THIS WEEK ON C-SPAN, WE'RE
00:00:18BRINGING YOU LIVE TALK RADIO FEATURING VOICES FROM ACROSS
00:00:22AMERICAN POLITICS. AT 9 A.M. EASTERN, MICHAEL SMERCONISH HOSTS THE MICHAEL
00:00:26SMERCONISH PROGRAM, CHALLENGING BOTH SIDES OF THE POLITICAL.
00:00:29AT NOON, PROGRESSIVE COMMENTATOR THOM HARTMANN, HOST THE THOM
00:00:32HARTMANN PROGRAM WITH HIS TAKE ON THE DAY'S BIGGEST POLITICAL
00:00:36STORIES. AND THEN AT THREE CONSERVATIVE RADIO HOST HOWIE CARR HOSTS THE
00:00:39HOWIE CARR SHOW WITH, HIS TAKE ON POLITICS, CULTURE AND THE
00:00:43NEWS OF THE DAY.
00:00:45WATCH LIVE THIS WEEK ON C-SPAN TWO C-SPAN.
00:00:49NOW OUR FREE MOBILE VIDEO APP OR
00:00:52ONLINE AT C-SPAN DOT ORG.
00:00:54OUR GUEST NOW IS TOM NICHOLS. YOU PROBABLY KNOW HIM, HIS WORK
00:00:58AS A STAFF WRITER FOR THE ATLANTIC OR FROM HIS SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS.
00:01:01YOU MAY KNOW HIM FROM HIS MANY BOOKS ON NATIONAL SECURITY AND
00:01:05AMERICAN DEMOCRACY. YOU NOT KNOW THAT HE WAS A FIVE TIME JEOPARDY!
00:01:09CHAMPION BACK IN THE MID 1990S. BUT TOM NICHOLS, LET'S START AT THE INTERSECTION OF NATIONAL
00:01:13SECURITY AND ECONOMIC POWER. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF OPERATION
00:01:16ECONOMIC OUTCAST, THIS LATEST
00:01:18ROUND OF ECONOMIC SANCTIONS AGAINST IRAN?
00:01:22WELL, THERE'S NOT MUCH LEFT TO SANCTION.
00:01:24AND IF YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO
00:01:26REALLY GO AFTER THE RUSSIANS AND THE CHINESE AS THE PRESIDENT
00:01:30SEEMS UNWILLING TO DO, NOT SURE WHAT THIS IS.
00:01:34OTHER THAN ANOTHER SET OF ANNOUNCEMENTS. THE PRESIDENT FROM THE SECRETARY
00:01:38OF TREASURY KIND OF TRYING TO WISH SOMETHING INTO EXISTENCE TO
00:01:41SAY, YOU KNOW, IS THE BIGGEST
00:01:43THIS IS THE VERSION OF D-DAY,
00:01:47BUT IT'S NOT NOW, YOU KNOW,
00:01:51DEFINITELY SANCTIONS ARE IN IRAN. THEY HURT.
00:01:54PEOPLE ARE HUNGRY.
00:01:56BUT I DON'T THINK THIS PARTICULAR REGIME CARES MUCH
00:02:00ABOUT THAT, ESPECIALLY IF THEY HAVE FRIENDS AND PLACES IN OTHER
00:02:06CAPITALS. AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENTS REALLY DON'T.
00:02:09A LOT OF TIME WORRYING TOO MUCH, ABOUT THE SUFFERING OF THEIR PEOPLE.
00:02:12BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THIS IS A
00:02:15KIND OF A LEAKY SET SANCTIONS,
00:02:19BECAUSE IT DOESN'T INCLUDE OF
00:02:21THE BIGGEST PLAYERS THAT I DON'T THINK THE CHINESE ARE GOING TO ENDANGER THEIR RELATIONSHIP,
00:02:25IRAN OVER THIS, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY. WHEN YOU SAY THIS IS A LEAKY SET
00:02:29OF SANCTIONS, SO WHAT WOULD IT MEAN? WOULD THAT ENTAIL GOING AFTER
00:02:31THE CHINESE?
00:02:34AND AND AND RUSSIA WHAT WOULD
00:02:36YOU NEED TO SEE FOR THIS TO BE AN ECONOMIC D-DAY?
00:02:40IT'D BE HARD. FIRST OF ALL, YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE THE COOPERATION OF THOSE
00:02:43GOVERNMENTS. IF WE'RE GOING TO STAY WITH THE
00:02:45D-DAY METAPHOR, THAT WAS AN
00:02:47ALLIED OPERATION AND NOT ONE
00:02:50THAT, YOU KNOW, RELUCTANT LEE DRAGGED IN SOME PEOPLE WHILE
00:02:54OTHER PEOPLE SAT IT OUT SOMEWHERE ELSE ON THE BEACH.
00:02:58SO YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD IT TAKE?
00:03:00I SUPPOSE IT WOULD TAKE TREATING
00:03:02CHINA THE WAY WE'RE TREATING CANADA RIGHT NOW.
00:03:06YOU KNOW, ONE OF OUR CLOSEST FRIENDS AND ALLIES.
00:03:09BUT I DON'T THINK THE ADMINISTRATION HAS THE APPETITE
00:03:13FOR THAT BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMIC
00:03:15REVERBERATIONS THAT WOULD WOULD HAPPEN IN THE UNITED STATES.
00:03:19CHINA GETS ENERGY FROM IRAN.
00:03:23IT'S WORKING WITH THEM ON A LOT OF OTHER DIFFERENT LEVELS.
00:03:27I JUST DON'T SEE THE ADMINISTRA
00:03:30NATION TAKING THAT ON. I MEAN, I THINK THIS IS I THINK
00:03:33THEY RAN OUT OF MILITARY OPTIONS AND SO THEY REPLACED ALL THE
00:03:37MILITARY THEY WERE USING WITH ECONOMIC.
00:03:40AND THEY'RE HOPING THAT SOMEHOW THAT PRODUCES AN EFFECT WHICH,
00:03:44YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT, BUT THAT LOOKS DOUBTFUL RIGHT NOW.
00:03:48IS IT MORE EFFECTIVE WITH THE US NAVAL BLOCKADE SETTING OFF OF
00:03:50IRANIAN PORTS? IS THIS SOMETHING THAT JUST
00:03:54TAKES TIME TO SQUEEZE RATHER
00:03:58THAN SOME SORT OF MILITARY STRIKE THAT WOULD BE QUICK AND
00:04:02DECISIVE? WELL, ONE THING WE KNOW EXCUSE ME FROM THE HISTORY OF SANCTIONS
00:04:08IN WHENEVER THEY'VE BEEN APPLIED, WE KNOW TWO THINGS. FIRST OF ALL, SANCTIONS TEND TO
00:04:12WORK BEST BETWEEN TWO COUNTRIES
00:04:13THAT ACTUALLY TRADE EACH OTHER.
00:04:16YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO
00:04:18THAT CAN HURT THE THE OTHER
00:04:22PARTY AND GIVE SOMETHING TO WANT
00:04:25TO NEGOTIATE ABOUT. THE OTHER THING WE KNOW ABOUT
00:04:28SANCTIONS, THEY TAKE A LONG TIME
00:04:30AND THAT AS A COROLLARY TO THAT,
00:04:33THEY TAKE A LONG TIME. EVERY KIND OF EVERYBODY HAS TO BE IN ON IT.
00:04:36AND I'M JUST NOT SURE THAT JUST
00:04:39LIKE WITH THE WAR ITSELF, I'M NOT SURE THAT THE ADMINISTRATION
00:04:42HAS REALLY THOUGHT THIS OUT IN TERMS OF HOW THIS IS GOING TO WORK.
00:04:46IF YOU'RE GOING TO BLOCKADE IRANIAN PORTS, WHAT ARE YOU BLOCKING?
00:04:49WHICH SHIPS GOING IN AND OUT?
00:04:52AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO FIRE ON
00:04:55SOMEONE YOU KNOW WHO WHO FINE.
00:04:58IF THERE'S A RUN OF THE BLOCKADE, WHO ARE YOU SHOOTING AT?
00:05:02AND I JUST DON'T AGAIN, I DON'T THINK THEY'VE REALLY THOUGHT THIS UP.
00:05:05THEY KEEP SAYING THINGS AND KIND OF HOPING PRODUCES A STRATEGIC
00:05:10EFFECT, BUT THAT YOU KNOW, THIS WAS A WAR THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO
00:05:13BE OVER IN A WEEK, SIX MONTHS
00:05:16AGO IN THE PAGES OF TODAY'S USA
00:05:20TODAY, A VEEVA CLUMP IS AN OPINION CONTRIBUTOR AND SAYS
00:05:23WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS
00:05:25MAJOR OUTCOME OF THE IRANIAN WAR. SHE'S TALKING ABOUT THE
00:05:29DISRUPTION AND DISMANTLING OF
00:05:31THE ARMED PARTNERS TO IRAN,
00:05:34STRETCHING FROM LEBANON TO GAZA
00:05:36TO SYRIA, IRAQ AND, YEMEN AND THE SO-CALLED AXIS OF
00:05:39RESISTANCE. SHE SAYS THAT IRAN IS INCREASINGLY FINDING ITSELF
00:05:43DOING SOMETHING IT SPENT DECADES TRYING TO AVOID, RELYING ON ITS
00:05:46OWN TERRITORY AND ITS OWN CAPABILITIES TO SUSTAIN THE
00:05:51CONFRONTATION, SAYING THAT DISMANTLING IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE TALKED MORE ABOUT AND
00:05:55CELEBRATED. IT'S A POSITIVE, BUT IT'S NOT
00:05:59GOING TO BE PERMANENT UNLESS
00:06:00THERE IS SOME KIND OF CHANGE IN
00:06:04REGIME, EITHER A WHOLESALE
00:06:06COLLAPSE OF THE REGIME OR SOME
00:06:08SORT OF CHANGE IN THEIR POSITION.
00:06:12AND IN FACT, THE IRANIAN POSITION SEEMS TO BE HARDENING. YEAH, IT'S GREAT THAT SOME OF
00:06:16THESE IRANIAN PROXIES ARE UNDER STRESS THAT THEY COULD BE
00:06:20DISARMED. YOU KNOW, THE OVERALL PICTURE
00:06:22WITH IRAN IS THAT IT'S
00:06:24MILITARILY WEAKER THAN IT WAS WHEN THE WAR STARTED?
00:06:27THE PROBLEM IS THAT IRAN IS IN A STRONGER STRATEGIC POSITION NOW.
00:06:32SO FOCUSING ON, YOU KNOW, WHICH
00:06:35PROXIES HAVE BEEN WEAKENED OR
00:06:38STRIPPED OF CAPABILITY, PERFECTLY REASONABLE TO THINK ABOUT. BUT RIGHT NOW, I THINK WHAT
00:06:43AMERICANS ARE PROBABLY THINKING ABOUT IS THAT A DELICATE AND AN ENEMY OF THE UNITED STATES
00:06:48FUNCTIONALLY THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ AND A BIG CHUNK OF THE
00:06:50WORLD'S GLOBAL ENERGY SUPPLY AND
00:06:53BY EXTENSION, A BIG PIECE OF THE GLOBAL ECONOMY.
00:06:56ME TURN FROM IRAN TO, UKRAINE, A
00:06:59HEADLINE IN POST TODAY ON EUROPEAN LEADERS YESTERDAY
00:07:03MARKING, UKRAINE'S 35TH IN DEPENDANCE DAY IN KIEV WITH
00:07:08CEREMONIES. WHAT'S YOUR SENSE OF THE STATUS
00:07:12OF THAT CONFLICT? THERE'S BEEN SOME REPORTS ABOUT
00:07:15MOVEMENT IN AND MOMENTUM FOR UKRAINIANS.
00:07:17HOW DO YOU READ WHAT'S GOING ON THERE?
00:07:21RIGHT NOW IN A REGION THAT'S SO HARD TO READ?
00:07:25YEAH, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I WAS ONE OF THE THE FOLKS THAT WAS
00:07:28REALLY WORRIED IN THAT FIRST
00:07:29MONTH THAT 150,000 RUSSIAN
00:07:32TROOPS ATTACKING ON THREE AXES
00:07:34OF ADVANCE WERE NOT GOING TO BE
00:07:40BOGGED DOWN VERY LONG IN UKRAINE. I WORRIED ABOUT A RELATIVELY
00:07:44RAPID RUSSIAN VICTORY.
00:07:46I THINK FOUR YEARS LATER, MORE
00:07:48THAN FOUR YEARS LATER, NOT ONLY
00:07:51DID PEOPLE LIKE ME UNDERESTIMATE THE ABILITY OF THE UKRAINIAN
00:07:55MILITARY, BUT REALLY OVERESTIMATED THE THE RUSSIANS.
00:07:57AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE HEADLINES FROM AFTER FOUR YEARS
00:08:01THAT THE IDEA THAT THIS THAT
00:08:03THIS WOULD GO THE DISTANCE IN THE IRAN EXCUSE ME THE
00:08:06UKRAINIANS WOULD RECAPTURING TERRITORY AND THAT THE RUSSIANS
00:08:10WOULD BE SHUTTING DOWN THEIR BORDERS TO PREVENT THEIR YOUNG
00:08:14MEN FROM FLEEING MASS CONSCRIPT
00:08:17I THINK IS A VERY IMPORTANT
00:08:20THING TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS THIS TIME IN THE 21ST CENTURY.
00:08:24WITH THAT, WE ARE GOING TO BREAK AWAY FROM THIS HERE TO TAKE YOU
00:08:28LIVE TO AUDUBON, IOWA, WHERE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR CANDIDATE
00:08:30ZACH LANE IS MEETING WITH VOTERS LIVE.
00:08:34CAMPAIGN 2026 COVERAGE HERE ON C-SPAN. I'VE BEEN TRAVELING THE STATE
00:08:38SINCE WELL, NOVEMBER AT THIS POINT AND ONE OF MY FAVORITE THINGS TO DO IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M
00:08:42DOING RIGHT. BUT I'LL TELL YOU, I'M NOT A POLITICIAN. I'VE NEVER RAN FOR OFFICE.
00:08:45OFTENTIMES, I'M A BIT MORE LONG WINDED. SOME PEOPLE ARE. SO I APOLOGIZE.
00:08:49AHEAD OF TIME FOR THAT. I LIKE TO GIVE MORE DETAIL THOUGHTS AND RESPONSES ON
00:08:53THINGS. I THINK THAT POLITICS HAS BEEN
00:08:55SUCCUMBED BY BUMPER STICKER KIND OF