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00:00:23Hello, my name is Maryana Trochashnikova, this is the program "A Person
00:00:27Has the Right," which can be listened to and watched. You are on the air of Radio Liberty and
00:00:31the Current Time TV channel. Today's
00:00:33issue:
00:00:38Extradition is worse than death. Why
00:00:40Kazakhstan has become an unsafe country for political
00:00:44emigrants from Russia. An epidemic of denunciations, how
00:00:47new Russian laws help settle scores
00:00:51and eliminate competitors. Virtual conflict, real
00:00:55verdict. A Russian court for the first time sentenced
00:00:58to a long term for bullying
00:01:00on the Internet.
00:01:05We will talk about this in more detail during the next hour, but first,
00:01:08let's see what else is being discussed in Russia this week by
00:01:11human rights activists, lawyers, and civil
00:01:14activists.
00:01:18The Supreme Court of the Komi Republic sentenced
00:01:21philosopher Nikolai Zyuzin to seven years in prison for treason. According to the
00:01:24investigation, in February 2022,
00:01:27Zyuzin started a project that...
00:02:00Since the beginning of the war in Ukraine, Zyuzin moved to Canada, but periodically
00:02:03came to Russia. In June 2025,
00:02:07he was arrested. 8.5 years in prison. The Pskov
00:02:10court sentenced a citizen of Ukraine for assisting
00:02:14the enemy in activities knowingly directed against the security
00:02:17of Russia. Mediazona notes that this is the first known case
00:02:21under this article. The investigation claims that the defendant transferred
00:02:25money to funds supporting the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The name
00:02:28of the convicted person was not disclosed by the court's press service. According to Mediazona,
00:02:32this is 26-year-old Anton Demidenko, arrested in July
00:02:352025. The article on assisting
00:02:38the enemy in activities knowingly directed against the security
00:02:42of Russia appeared in the Criminal Code at the end of
00:02:452024. It provides for responsibility for
00:02:48foreigners and stateless persons for providing
00:02:51financial, consulting, and other types of assistance
00:02:55to a foreign state, international or foreign
00:02:57organization, directly. The second
00:03:52accusation concerned ties with the organization Black Army,
00:03:55which, according to the investigation, is a Tuvan branch.
00:04:10Igor Krainov received compensation of 350,000
00:04:14rubles for being beaten by drug control officers 7
00:04:17years ago, reports the Team Against Torture. In
00:04:202019, Krainov was stopped on his way to work by two men in
00:04:24plain clothes, who identified themselves as police officers. He did not believe them
00:04:28and started to run away.
00:04:30They beat him and planted a narcotic substance in his jeans
00:04:33pocket, and then took him to the police station. There, in the presence
00:04:37of witnesses, they took a bag of drugs from his pocket and opened
00:04:40a criminal case. The case was later dropped. In
00:04:432022, the police officers were sentenced to real
00:04:46prison terms for assault and illegal drug
00:04:49possession. In May 2026, the court
00:04:52awarded Krainov 100,000 rubles in compensation for
00:04:56illegal criminal prosecution. In
00:04:59samples of one. In the Syrian vaccine Multikan-8 for dogs,
00:05:02seized in the Yaroslavl region, a live virus of
00:05:05Aujeszky's disease or pseudorabies was found. Thus,
00:05:09a causal link has been confirmed between.
00:05:52Leaving Russia does not mean being safe. According to
00:05:55the human rights project "Go Forest," by March of this year, at least
00:05:5911 Russians were denied asylum in
00:06:02Kazakhstan, some of whom have already been sent back to Russia,
00:06:06where the police and FSB were waiting for them. Now under
00:06:09threat of extradition from Kazakhstan is a Chechen.
00:06:13He says that in Russia he will be killed, but the
00:06:17Kazakh authorities denied him asylum. In the same
00:06:20detention center, former Navalny staff volunteer
00:06:23Yulia Yemelyanova awaits a decision. Her asylum hearing
00:06:26is scheduled for late
00:06:29September.
00:06:32On September 10, the Court of Cassation of Kazakhstan finally denied
00:06:36asylum to Chechen activist Mansur Mavlaev. His
00:06:39lawyer, Vadim Drazdov, says that now the probability of extradition to
00:06:43Russia has significantly increased. Kazakhstan is currently withholding extradition due to the demands of the UN Committee
00:06:46on Human Rights not to
00:06:50hand over Mavlaev while his complaint is being considered, but
00:06:53there are no guarantees that this demand will be fulfilled. Five days
00:06:57after the court hearing, Mavlaev tried to commit suicide in Almaty pre-trial detention center. The
00:07:00Russian Anti-War Committee reported that they managed to
00:07:04help him and his life is not in danger. In a note, he wrote: "Forgive me, I
00:07:08am tired of injustice, neither the court nor the prosecutor's office hears us."
00:07:12He asked to save Yulia Yemelyanova, a former
00:07:16Navalny staff volunteer, who is in the same
00:07:19detention center, from extradition. Human rights activists stood up for Mavlaev. He himself appealed to
00:07:23Kazakh President Tokayev and the UN Secretary General with the words: "I
00:07:27am asking for my life," but no public
00:07:30response followed. Officially, Russia demands Mavlaev's extradition in an extortion
00:07:33case. According to the investigation, he demanded
00:07:3650,000 rubles, threatening to disseminate someone else's intimate
00:07:40video. Mavlaev denies these accusations. According to
00:07:43opposition activists, there is also a case of financing
00:07:46extremism. They claim that operatives themselves transferred money from
00:07:50Mavlaev's phone to a crypto wallet of a channel
00:07:53banned in Russia. Mavlaev himself links the persecution
00:07:56to the fact that he transmitted information to opposition Chechen channels about
00:08:00abductions, torture, and fabricated cases. In
00:08:032020, he was arrested and, according to his lawyer,
00:08:06investigators offered him to choose what to confess to,
00:08:10possession of drugs or weapons. He received 2
00:08:13years. After early release, Mavlaev left
00:08:17Chechnya for Moscow, but in August twenty-second year, according to his lawyer,
00:08:20he was kidnapped by Kadyrovtsy and taken to an illegal prison in
00:08:23Chechnya, where he was beaten and tortured for 10 days. Mavlaev
00:08:27managed to escape to Kyrgyzstan, where he was detained for illegal border
00:08:31crossing, sentenced to six months in prison, and was about to be
00:08:34deported to Russia. On the day of deportation, he jumped out of the car
00:08:38while it was moving and escaped again. Now to Kazakhstan. In Almaty, he spent a year and a half
00:08:42renting a room under a false name and working as a trainer, but he
00:08:45was found. Since May last year, he has been in a pre-trial detention center. The General Prosecutor's Office
00:08:49of Kazakhstan agreed to extradite him to Russia. In February, the Supreme Court
00:08:52of Kazakhstan suspended the extradition until the asylum issue was resolved.
00:08:56Now asylum has been finally denied, and his arrest has been extended until
00:09:00January 13, 2027. Mavlaev says directly:
00:09:04if he is extradited, he will be killed. And if he is not killed,
00:09:07he will be imprisoned, as happened, for example, with
00:09:0925-year-old Alexander Kachkurkin, who, according to
00:09:13human rights activists, left Russia for political reasons, and
00:09:16on January 29, Kazakhstan deported him to his homeland. The reason
00:09:20was allegedly crossing the road in the wrong place and
00:09:23smoking hookah indoors. The court issued the
00:09:26expulsion in a few hours. In Moscow,
00:09:29Kachkurkin was detained and sent to Lefortovo, accused of
00:09:32treason due to money transfers to Ukraine. Another
00:09:36case is related to Semyon Bazhukov, who
00:09:38deserted from the Russian army and sought asylum in Kazakhstan. In
00:09:42December 2025, he was detained by Kazakh police and
00:09:46handed over to the Russian military, he escaped, but soon he was found by
00:09:49Kazakh police and handed over again to the Russian
00:09:52military. And finally, Yulia Yemelyanova, for whom Mavlaev is asking,
00:09:56she was a volunteer of Navalny's headquarters in St. Petersburg and
00:10:00after leaving Russia helped political prisoners. On August
00:10:0431st of last year, she was detained during a layover in
00:10:07Almaty on a Russian wanted list. Yemelyanova is accused
00:10:10of stealing a phone from a taxi in 2021. Human rights activists
00:10:14point to irregularities in the case. It was opened only a
00:10:18month after the alleged theft, and Yemelyanova's phone was first
00:10:22shown already at the police station. General Prosecutor.
00:10:35For a year she has been in the Almaty pre-trial detention center. On September 24, her appeal
00:10:38will be heard in the Court of Cassation. If it
00:10:41denies, Yemelyanova will be in the same situation as Mavlaev,
00:10:45with asylum denied and extradition to
00:10:48Russia agreed upon.
00:10:53And here's what about the history.
00:11:25extradition, Mansour's fate will undoubtedly be
00:11:28difficult, there are several developments in
00:11:32events, the first is undoubtedly his
00:11:34murder, immediately or after some
00:11:38time, he may be supported for
00:11:40appearances, the famous Chechen ombudsman
00:11:44Mansour Saltaev
00:11:46may come
00:11:48to talk to him on video, as he likes to
00:11:51do, maybe Mansour will be...
00:11:55forced to repent for his
00:11:56actions,
00:11:59mm and he will record, so to speak, an apology on
00:12:03camera, and that will be the end of it, at some point
00:12:07Mansour will simply disappear. The second option is that he may repeat
00:12:10the fate of Zarema Musaeva, that is, he will become
00:12:13a hostage in his own homeland, and
00:12:16since he still has an article hanging over him, albeit
00:12:20entirely fabricated, it still exists,
00:12:23mm, therefore.
00:12:55and the first time he attempted it while in pre-trial detention, he repeated
00:12:59it already in the hospital during hospitalization,
00:13:02trying to cut his carotid artery with a knife,
00:13:06now his condition is certainly not life-threatening,
00:13:10he has received all necessary assistance,
00:13:13but the very fact that it is easier
00:13:17for him to commit suicide
00:13:19than to end up in the country that is requesting him,
00:13:23indicates that his fate there
00:13:26is much worse than suicide. Regarding further
00:13:29actions, what are we hoping for? According to
00:13:32Kazakh law, all avenues for appeal have been exhausted. Mansour, as was previously
00:13:36known, was denied final refugee
00:13:39status on September 10. According to Kazakh law, the Supreme Court can only
00:13:43be appealed to in special
00:13:46cases. The Supreme Court will review
00:13:49it, not a given that it will review it. Otherwise, all
00:13:53hope lies solely with the temporary UN measures, which are still in effect, and public
00:13:56pressure, meaning pressure from human
00:14:00rights activists, journalists, organizations, European
00:14:04Union countries, and other states.
00:14:06And it's possible that theoretically some
00:14:10negotiations with third countries are taking place
00:14:12behind closed doors, a classic practice in similar
00:14:16cases of extradition
00:14:19of activists and political refugees,
00:14:23but all this is behind the scenes and...
00:14:55the future fate of activists who leave Russia
00:14:59and end up
00:15:01there.
00:15:05This is the program "Man Has the Right." My name is Maryana Tarocheshnikova. Connecting
00:15:09with our studio is Margarita Kuchusheva, a lawyer for the Consul Project and the Russian Anti-War Committee.
00:15:12Margarita, hello. Hello.
00:15:15Thank you very much for the invitation. Thank you for
00:15:19agreeing to
00:15:22clarify what Russians should do
00:15:25who are trying to seek asylum in other countries and do not find it for
00:15:29some reasons. Please tell me, what will happen
00:15:32now with Mansour Mavlaev, what are his
00:15:35options?
00:16:07if they were simply denied asylum, there would possibly be
00:16:11expulsion, they could leave the country and
00:16:14come to a third safe country,
00:16:17relocate, get humanitarian visas, or
00:16:20use similar mechanisms. In the case
00:16:23of extradition, this path is completely closed to them, because
00:16:27the extradition will be directly under escort to the Russian
00:16:30Federation, where they will be immediately arrested, and the fabricated
00:16:34criminal cases, in our opinion, that exist
00:16:37against them will begin to be considered. Unfortunately, from the moment of the refusal
00:16:41of the cassation court, extradition can
00:16:44be carried out at any moment. In Mansour's case, there are
00:16:48urgent UN measures, but we don't know if Kazakhstan
00:16:52will comply with them.
00:16:55And it is possible to file an appeal with the
00:16:58Supreme Court.
00:17:01The chances of the case being heard are quite small, but still this
00:17:04appeal was filed. In Yulia's case, after
00:17:08her court on September 24, we will also file
00:17:11with the Supreme Court, because we have very little hope for cassation,
00:17:15as we see that these are more political courts, not
00:17:18legal ones. And it is also possible to file with the constitutional
00:17:21court, but filing with neither the constitutional
00:17:25court nor the Supreme Court of the Republic of Kazakhstan stops
00:17:28extradition. That is, just as they wait for a decision, while they
00:17:32wait for whether the court will consider it, they can be taken at any
00:17:36moment by the transport prosecutor and handed over to the Russian
00:17:39Federation. That is, largely speaking, it
00:17:43now depends, well, regarding the two people, Mavsar
00:17:46Mavlaev and Yulia Yemelyanova, it depends on
00:17:50the goodwill of the Kazakh authorities. That is,
00:17:54if they want to somehow
00:17:57support them themselves, I don't know, find new
00:18:00ways to solve the
00:18:04issue, then they will support them. If not, they will hand them over to Russia.
00:18:38and any other arguments. That is, legally, we see that
00:18:41here, most likely, the courts simply received some kind of instruction and
00:18:45they are acting in accordance with
00:18:48some political decision that was made by the Republic
00:18:51of Kazakhstan. Will politicians actively interfere
00:18:55and answer
00:18:58for their actions? I believe that they should, at least,
00:19:02the President of the Republic, as the guarantor
00:19:05of the constitution, can somehow intervene in
00:19:08the process, just like other
00:19:11politicians, especially since the pressure on Kazakhstan is unprecedented now,
00:19:15this is not only special UN measures, also
00:19:19PACE requested, international observers attend
00:19:22court hearings, embassy representatives attend, as if
00:19:25in general, political pressure on Kazakhstan is now unprecedented,
00:19:29why they are so stubborn for these two people, we
00:19:32don't know, well, it's clear, that is, they are basically now
00:19:36choosing between, let's say, the European community
00:19:39and Russia, that is, whom,
00:19:43European, international, tell me, but are these two
00:19:46stories rather an exception, or
00:19:49is this already a demonstration of some trend
00:19:52of how the authorities of countries belonging to
00:19:56the CIS, for example, treat
00:19:59political immigrants from
00:20:02Russia, especially if there are some cases
00:20:06opened against them in Russia? Unfortunately, it seems to us that this is a trend, because
00:20:09we saw the case of Semyon Bazhukov, I don't
00:20:13remember if I pronounced it correctly, and there was
00:20:16another person who were extradited directly, completely in
00:20:20violation of all existing procedures,
00:20:23laws, and so on, there about applying for asylum, extradition,
00:20:27and we see that Kazakhstan is becoming absolutely unsafe for people who
00:20:31are subject to criminal prosecution, because the court refuses to consider any
00:20:35arguments in favor of the fact that the case was...
00:21:20to Armenia, to Georgia, to Uzbekistan, to
00:21:24Kyrgyzstan, to other CIS countries, where you can enter
00:21:27without a visa, because many people left and chose Kazakhstan,
00:21:31among other reasons, simply because you can enter with a
00:21:34foreign passport without a visa. My
00:21:38assessment, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, most likely,
00:21:41is a more unsafe country, especially if there is a criminal
00:21:44case, but Armenia and Georgia are very different countries, just
00:21:485 minutes before...
00:21:54the full-scale invasion, he received international
00:21:57protection in Georgia, the very first this
00:22:00unprecedented case, if that is indeed the case, I will be very
00:22:03glad, but in Georgia, extradition is currently ruled out,
00:22:07and Armenia has direct ties and
00:22:10obligations for extradition to the territory of the Russian Federation,
00:22:14but it does not actively comply with them, and many
00:22:17politicians came out with exactly this...
00:22:50and is friends with Russia, how much
00:22:53does the situation differ, is it still possible to try to
00:22:57go there to get asylum specifically?
00:23:00It's possible to try, but unfortunately, with the adoption of the new
00:23:04migration pact, which is called Dublin-2,
00:23:07that's what they nicknamed it,
00:23:10it's becoming much harder. That is, the issue of border crossing,
00:23:14obtaining visas in order to legally cross the
00:23:17EU border. All this
00:23:21is a big obstacle to
00:23:24relocating and applying for asylum.
00:23:27Also, visa-free countries like Serbia and Montenegro still
00:23:31require visa-free entry, leaving, and coming back.
00:23:34You either have to legalize yourself through other
00:23:37means, either through sole proprietorship or through a residence permit, or
00:23:41through some investments, which is not accessible to everyone. As for
00:23:45political asylum, it is still
00:23:48issued in Europe, meaning it's not like
00:23:52everyone is denied, with the exception of Finland, where we have a big problem
00:23:55now, where they have raised the bar too high, meaning people who have
00:23:59obvious risks, but without a criminal case,
00:24:02Finland often considers that
00:24:05it is unsafe there, for example, can you give
00:24:08some examples, well, when you talk about real
00:24:12risks, we had the Belov family, for example, who donated
00:24:15directly to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, we all understand that this is a huge
00:24:19criminal...
00:25:20recognized that there are risks in Russia, but we will not take them in,
00:25:23we will send you to some other third country. As for the
00:25:27EU, they often give time to voluntarily leave
00:25:31the territory. Often it happens that they can
00:25:35also impose a ban on entry for a certain
00:25:38period of time, from three to five years, but
00:25:42they give a chance to leave the country. In case this is
00:25:46impossible, for example, an expired passport or completely...
00:26:33very often a lot of information is stored there,
00:26:37everyone without exception who went through this deportation mechanism, told us how both from the USA and from
00:26:40Lithuania, they undergo
00:26:43filtering, there men of military age receive
00:26:46subpoenas, they ask for a long time where you were, what you did,
00:26:50what you did on the territory, they even google names, if a person was
00:26:53public, somehow expressed their
00:26:57position, they can immediately present this to them,
00:27:00mm, this is the
00:27:02worst-case scenario, uh-huh,
00:27:05tell me, in your observations, which groups
00:27:08of Russians are most often now in the
00:27:12risk zone
00:27:14of deportation from countries where they are seeking
00:27:18asylum, and what will mainly
00:27:21affect the outcome of these asylum cases
00:27:24for Russians? From the very beginning, when the
00:27:28first wave started, there were many asylum cases that
00:27:31were either poorly filed or lacked sufficient
00:27:35circumstances. Roughly speaking, a person fled from mobilization, received a
00:27:38mobilization order, listened to someone smart on YouTube who told him
00:27:42to burn it, eat it, destroy it. He did so,
00:27:46arrived and said: "I'm mobilized, but I don't have any proof." They then
00:27:49start living in the country and somehow become active,
00:27:53do something, attend rallies, donate, and so on. But the court still
00:27:56considers the case based on mobilization and looks, we have
00:27:59a mobilized person, but he doesn't have a summons, so it's
00:28:02not interesting what you do once you are safe.
00:28:06These cases that are currently being tried at the level of
00:28:10the administrative supreme court, there is
00:28:13indeed a big problem and big risks that they will have to either re-apply
00:28:17for documents or somehow solve their
00:28:20situation in another way. Also, there were cases when a person
00:28:23left, applied for asylum, he had some
00:28:26case, criminal prosecution began
00:28:30immediately after.
00:28:33Roughly speaking, he donated or
00:28:36some extremist statements were found, and he got
00:28:39a criminal case. And this must be reported immediately, of course, in
00:28:43order for the court to consider all circumstances, but sometimes this is simply not
00:28:47possible. Therefore, these,
00:28:49most likely, activists, this group of people, are in
00:28:53the highest risk group.
00:28:56How easy is it for a person in this situation to find
00:29:00some help? And
00:29:03in all countries of origin, so to speak,
00:29:06are there human rights defenders, human rights
00:29:09groups that can help? Well, as I understand, a
00:29:13migration lawyer can cost
00:29:16a decent amount of money, right? Especially in the US, we see
00:29:20fundraisers opening up,
00:29:23all sorts of collections for lawyers, for
00:29:26bond.
00:29:28Many lawyers can be appointed by the state in
00:29:31EU countries. But they do not have
00:29:34the authority, for example, to file with the ECHR, if that is the last
00:29:37resort, or they can only provide assistance once,
00:29:41and a second time, when you re-apply or something happened,
00:29:45it may be beyond their authority,
00:29:48in different ways. Here,
00:29:51a large
00:29:53part is also played by NGOs that protect Russians, for example, like
00:29:57the Consul of the Anti-War Committee, which is ready to help.
00:30:01a lawyer and write
00:30:04a legal opinion, and
00:30:07if something needs to be picked up in the country, somehow help provide, provide
00:30:11support, and there are several such NGOs, like ours,
00:30:14and we always tell people to please contact us, we
00:30:18will try to help you. Yes, thank you very much for your
00:30:21explanation, Margarita Kutyusheva, lawyer for the Consul
00:30:25Project of the Anti-War Committee of Russia, was connected to the "Man Has the Right" program.
00:30:28spoke with an acquaintance via
00:30:33video call, used the wrong emoji in a building chat,
00:30:36argued with a neighbor at the dacha. All of this in Russia can now
00:30:40become a reason for a denunciation. Your words and
00:30:43seemingly harmless actions can lead to a fine
00:30:47or even a prison sentence. The so-called
00:30:50"epidemic of denunciations" in Russia, which erupted after
00:30:53the start of the war with Ukraine, is drawing attention not only from
00:30:57human rights activists.