Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00against them, how do you think they would have reacted? I won't speculate
00:00:03on that, but I don't think we should compare ourselves to Russia when we talk about how we should
00:00:06react to provocations and to other things. The
00:00:09Russian way of acting is not a role model in my eyes. Now I want to be allowed
00:00:13to go in, now comes, and that was
00:00:17I think will be exciting to try to get an answer to is Anne Valentina Bertelsen from SF, and the next one to
00:00:20come is Enger Strøjberg, who is on her way now for uh
00:00:24the Denmark Democrats,
00:00:26and we are standing here because in a little while Jeppe
00:00:30Brugs will hold this briefing for the defense spokespersons in
00:00:32Parliament, who will go in and hear about the incident that happened late last
00:00:36night, where a Danish helicopter was shot at with a kind
00:00:39of distress flare by a Russian ship that it was
00:00:43photographing. But we are waiting for Enger Støjberg, she
00:00:46is stuck, she is stuck, as I said, in
00:00:49the pedestrian crossing over there, and it is in a little while that Jeppe
00:00:52Bros will brief, and I guess
00:00:55and expect that this is just the first of many meetings that will be in
00:00:59around Christiansborg and around the Ministry of Defense today, where
00:01:03we will discuss this incident that happened last night and
00:01:06its consequences. We also know that the Russian ambassador will
00:01:10be summoned for a meeting at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. This is not the
00:01:14first time, we are still waiting to get an interview with Frederiksen and with
00:01:17Lars Lykke Rasmussen. But uh, Inger
00:01:21Storyberg, she is on her way in a little while, we are standing in a very busy intersection here in front of
00:01:24the Ministry of Defense. If you take the camera over, you can see, the
00:01:27Parliament is right here behind us, and this is where
00:01:30all the spokespersons come from, we can see Markus Knut, he
00:01:33comes behind Inger Støjberg, that is the Conservatives, and now Inger Støjberg comes,
00:01:37so let's hear what she, what she has to
00:01:39say? Inger Storyberg, a further
00:01:43escalation tonight of the relationship between Denmark and Russia, what do you think about that? Well,
00:01:47it's serious, and therefore it's also absolutely
00:01:50right that the government summons
00:01:54the ambassador, the Russian ambassador for a meeting, so I fully support that, but at some
00:01:57point enough is enough in relation to what
00:02:00they can allow themselves. Yes, yes, and I completely agree, but there are also many more
00:02:03tools in the toolbox, and what is
00:02:05it? That was all we managed to get
00:02:09from Inger Støjberg and Poland yesterday, uh, so
00:02:13the important thing for me here is to support the government's line, but
00:02:17also emphasize that we need to engage in dialogue with our NATO allies, so that they
00:02:21can also condemn this, and why is the government's line the right one? We see a
00:02:24Russia, the Prime Minister also says, that goes further and
00:02:27further, why shouldn't it have a harsher
00:02:32response? that the government is proposing here, because it is Russia that is escalating here, it is Russia that is the aggressive party, and we do not
00:02:35want a military conflict with Russia, at the same time we do not want to look the other
00:02:39way and just let ourselves be run over, and the important thing
00:02:43here is to keep calm, but also to be in close close dialogue with our
00:02:46NATO ally, so that we send a strong signal to Russia that we
00:02:49condemn this, and our NATO ally does too, but dialogue with
00:02:53Russia too, who will be summoned for a meeting later today, the Russian
00:02:56Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it's just talk, isn't it, how do you think they react to that in
00:03:00Russia? No, Russia is watching very very closely exactly how we react
00:03:04to these incidents, just as they are watching
00:03:06between NATO countries and Russia, because then we're in what happened at the border between Ukraine and Poland,
00:03:09and the most important thing is that we stick together, but also that we do not let ourselves be provoked and
00:03:13come with an unnecessary response that then
00:03:16escalates, that escalates further, so it's a balancing act, I know
00:03:20it can sound like words, but words are
00:03:22something similar, so we can't completely panic important, diplomacy is important here, and the cornerstone is that we stick
00:03:25together with our allies, we often hear that Russia only understands
00:03:28strength, yes, uh. from the West, from NATO, do we
00:03:32really show that with the way we react here? Well, the way we show strength is that
00:03:35we rearm our defense as quickly as possible, we have a
00:03:39battalion stationed in Latvia, we are investing massively
00:03:42in everything from planes to frigates, and that's how we show
00:03:46strength, but right now it's also important to keep a cool head and not
00:03:49overreact with an unnecessary escalation on the other side towards
00:03:52Russia, but maintain the line, that is, if we stick together in NATO about
00:03:56this, then we have to run in,
00:03:59thank you. Yes, we are therefore moving back and forth here from
00:04:03the studio and then to the Ministry of Defense, where we talk to
00:04:06various politicians, these are members of
00:04:09the defense committee who are on their way to the Minister of Defense Jeppe
00:04:13Bros for a briefing, so that's
00:04:16why we are a bit back and forth, so apologize, hope that
00:04:20everyone can follow, and it is because after the incident yesterday where a
00:04:23Russian frigate uh fired
00:04:26signal flares at a Danish helicopter, this has, uh, made
00:04:30politicians react, we are of course also trying to get a
00:04:34comment from the Russian embassy, we would like to speak to the Russian
00:04:37ambassador, Vladimir Barbin, it's not always
00:04:41easy, I know that at least for you, Niels Fastrup, uh, Mads
00:04:44Korsager, the politicians here talk about, uh, we must stick
00:04:48together, this is the right thing to do, to summon the Russian
00:04:51ambassador, call him for a conversation, then they get
00:04:55the question, is that even enough, what kind
00:04:58of balancing act is going
00:05:01on right now? It's a balancing act that's about
00:05:04signaling in a relatively easy-to-understand way
00:05:08that, yes, we understand what you're doing in Russia, but we won't
00:05:11accept it. And then it must also happen in a way that doesn't
00:05:15seem unnecessarily escalatory, so Denmark and NATO don't want to be accused of
00:05:19escalating a potential conflict, so you could say this
00:05:22is a diplomatic tightrope walk
00:05:26we're seeing unfold, and then they're going to talk to the
00:05:29Minister of Defense here at, well, actually it was at 10 o'clock, we
00:05:33can also see all the politicians who are now on their way down from
00:05:36Christiansborg, which is on the other side of the street, you could say, and then you go
00:05:40down to the Ministry of Defense. And that's why all the journalists, or many
00:05:44journalists from many different media outlets, are standing outside to get
00:05:48a political reaction.
00:05:51The incident yesterday, did it surprise you, was it a surprise that
00:05:55uh, we also see that kind of thing? Well, of course,
00:05:58when something like that happens and you get the news, it's always surprising, because
00:06:02these are violent things that are happening, but if we look at the
00:06:06context of what is happening right now in the Baltic Sea and the Danish straits, among other things,
00:06:09concerning the Russian shadow fleet, and how the Russian
00:06:13fleet is currently conducting a large operation in our waters to deter
00:06:17us from intervening against the shadow fleet, then it's perhaps not
00:06:21so surprising, because we have seen an escalation in
00:06:24the Baltic Sea and actually also in the Danish waters and in the English
00:06:28Channel over the last year to
00:06:30year and a half.
00:06:33And Mads Kors, are the options for action
00:06:36that politicians have in relation to these things, because one can
00:06:40sit at home and think, well. to try to get or
00:06:44summon the Russian ambassador for a
00:06:47conversation, honestly, what will that change? Well, that,
00:06:51that is probably not what will make Russia change its
00:06:54behavior pattern at least, I mean, if something like that is to be fought, then it's something that
00:06:57one would like to see happen collectively, I mean, either in the NATO alliance or the
00:07:01common European, and there we can see wave
00:07:05after wave of sanctions and reactions that have rolled over Russia
00:07:09since February 2022, and that hasn't really
00:07:12had much effect, so the question is whether
00:07:15this will work this time, but we can at least see a form
00:07:18of, one could perhaps call it a show of strength, which is ongoing, where
00:07:22Russia slowly but surely tries to push the boundaries in terms of what it can
00:07:26get away with, drones that hit a few hundred meters from
00:07:30the Polish border crossing and attempts at
00:07:33assassinations and sabotage on NATO territory and such, whether
00:07:36this should be seen in that context, or whether it's actually just, in
00:07:40inverted commas, a nervous lookout post on the
00:07:43Russian ship, and now we go in to Charlotte Bakke Hansen,
00:07:46defense spokesperson for Moderates, good evening, how worried
00:07:49are you as a moderate defense spokesperson? I think
00:07:52this is a gross
00:07:55provocation from Russia, we can constantly see that
00:07:59they are pushing the boundaries. I
00:08:03think Simon might just say
00:08:06a little, no, that's fine, uh, now we're going in to
00:08:09hear what they know in here, right, it's our Danish
00:08:12soldiers on board, it's their safety, uh, we
00:08:16must protect them, but again, as I
00:08:19said before, can it be enough, is it enough to just summon a
00:08:23Russian ambassador? I think it's a wise move
00:08:27to just call him in for a conversation, as Lykke does, and
00:08:31just explain to him that this is, it's actually
00:08:35uh, way over the line, I mean, it's our
00:08:38soldiers' safety that's at stake, now we need to go in and hear
00:08:42what the minister has to say, but when is enough? Now
00:08:46we need to go in and hear what the minister has to say, and then I think we'll know more when we come out
00:08:50of there.
00:08:54Yes, that was what Charlotte, Charlotte Bakke Hansen,
00:08:58one of the members of the Defense
00:09:02Committee, who is going in to be briefed by Defense Minister Jeppe
00:09:05Brus, sounded like. When one wakes up in the morning to yet another news
00:09:09story about this happening, this is the way the Russians
00:09:13are moving, then I hear from many who get a stomach ache, and it's
00:09:17actually more and more stomach aches, worried or thinking, oh,
00:09:20and then there are also some who think, are we exaggerating
00:09:24this too much, what's your assessment, Mads?
00:09:27Well, there, one must, one must be painfully
00:09:31aware that this is a long way from
00:09:34actual combat, meaning there is a way to
00:09:38communicate and interact with each other at
00:09:41sea, even between warships, i.e.,
00:09:44naval vessels, and signaling is part of
00:09:47that. Normally, one would say, well, something like this is handled by calling up on
00:09:51VHF channel 16, for example, one can also flash lights at
00:09:55each other, there are special flashing lights on the bridge of
00:09:58ships, there are many ways to do it. What
00:10:01Russia is doing here is that they, you could say, skip some
00:10:04communication steps, and it's violent to start shooting
00:10:08such professional military signal flares
00:10:12at each other, because it's dangerous if they hit the helicopter, but we are
00:10:16still a long way from a regular combat action, however, it is
00:10:19interesting, because it is such an escalation step,
00:10:23they simply skip that, but
00:10:25what would be wrong? There were many ways in which the Russian
00:10:29frigate could say: keep your distance, we don't like what you are doing, so you could
00:10:33say, this is very characteristic of what is happening in the Baltic Sea right now and all
00:10:36sorts of other places, as my good colleague Nils Fastrup says,
00:10:40that is, one is at odds with each other, but one is not in combat with
00:10:43each other. But Niels Fastrup, don't you understand, you work in this area, that when
00:10:47you are out reporting about these things, when we then see politicians, even if they actually
00:10:51remain relatively calm and articulate, and we stand together, it is important
00:10:54to see a clear message, but there are some people out there who are getting
00:10:58uneasy? Yes, yes, but I also think the situation is highly
00:11:01unusual, I mean, if we had asked ourselves five years ago, before all this
00:11:05started, if we could imagine in five years that this would happen, or and all the things
00:11:09that are happening right now could happen, then we would have said no, I mean, now it's happening a bit
00:11:13gradually, and in that way we get used to it, for better or worse, that it
00:11:17happens, but it is an extraordinary situation we are
00:11:21in, and the, what should one say, intelligence sources
00:11:24in Europe and the defense sources I, for example, talk
00:11:27to, are surely also talking to, are
00:11:31worried about this situation, it does not mean that, that
00:11:34hopefully it will not come to outright
00:11:37combat, as Mads also talks about, but the risk is
00:11:41there, and that is new, I mean, that there is a clear
00:11:44risk of war or war-like
00:11:48actions in our part of the world, yes, in that way, and it
00:11:51is at least a fact that that is how it is, and that is, of course,
00:11:55why we are covering this, so we will go to you, Rasmus
00:11:58Lindegaard, because you are with a party leader,
00:12:02doing a dobr, that's right, I have found the Liberal
00:12:05Alliance party chairman Alex Vanopslagh, what do you think is
00:12:09the signal the Russians are sending with the incident we
00:12:13have now become aware of, that took place yesterday? Well, I mean,
00:12:17partly they are constantly testing the limits of what they can get away with, and then I interpret
00:12:21it mostly as them trying to send a signal to Denmark that they
00:12:25want Denmark not to interfere in any way in what Russia is doing
00:12:28in the Baltic Sea, and that's the way Putin's regime
00:12:32acts, they want European countries to stay out of the war they are waging in Ukraine, they want
00:12:36us to stay out of what is happening in the Baltic Sea, and therefore the most important thing is
00:12:40that we don't change our behavior, that the next time there is a Russian
00:12:43frigate or similar, well, then we must continue to reconnoiter
00:12:47and monitor the area, and in that way show the Russians that we will not be
00:12:51intimidated by this, you say we should not be intimidated, but should we put up with
00:12:55it? Well, I don't think we do, I mean, we use
00:12:58the diplomatic channels that exist, and the most important thing is
00:13:02that it doesn't make us change our behavior, we say, well, the next time there are
00:13:06Russian activities in the Baltic Sea, well, then we will stay far away, no, it will not mean that we continue to
00:13:10show visibility, that we continue our reconnaissance and monitoring of
00:13:13areas, and that is actually the most important thing, because what the Russians are trying to do is
00:13:17to intimidate us into stopping
00:13:20the military operations we are currently conducting. But I am asking if we should continue to put up
00:13:24with it, because what do you think it changes that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
00:13:28summons an ambassador for a telling-
00:13:30off? Well, I don't delude myself that Putin's
00:13:34gangster regime will suddenly become a democratic paragon overnight, not
00:13:37even if Lars Løkke himself were to show up personally and give
00:13:40him a telling-off, and I also think it's important to
00:13:43say that this won't be the last time we experience
00:13:47every time and say that now, now, now
00:13:50the world is no longer standing, it will not mean that we take a stand
00:13:53diplomatically as we do, we cooperate with our European
00:13:57colleagues, and most important of all, that we do not allow ourselves to be intimidated, so we
00:14:00continue to undertake the things we must undertake, also in relation to monitoring
00:14:04activities in the Baltic Sea
00:14:07region, and I believe that is the most important thing, one could also retaliate in
00:14:10kind?
00:14:14Yes, I'm a little unsure how that would happen exactly, but I'm
00:14:18convinced that the military is best at assessing when it makes
00:14:22sense to resort to a counterattack and when it makes
00:14:25sense to do what has been done this time, and I fully trust the professional assessment of
00:14:29the people who work in our research, but do you think it changes
00:14:33anything, I mean, you also say it probably won't be the last time, I mean,
00:14:36what do we achieve by having, what should I say, the conversation
00:14:40through diplomatic channels instead of taking
00:14:43harsher maneuvers? Well, what we achieve is
00:14:47that we send a clear signal, and that's how the world of diplomacy works, it's about summoning the ambassador
00:14:51for a conversation. I don't want to sugarcoat it for anyone, that suddenly
00:14:55Putin and Russia will become a democratic paragon, but it's
00:14:59something we do in diplomacy, and I must emphasize again,
00:15:03the goal here from the Russian side is to scare us away from
00:15:07supporting Ukraine, scare us away from reconnoitering in the Baltic Sea and scare us away
00:15:11from having a military
00:15:14presence in and
00:15:17around the Baltic Sea, and we should not let ourselves be scared by that, and therefore we must
00:15:21keep a cool head and keep doing our
00:15:25job, so to speak, but I understand that we should not let ourselves be
00:15:28scared, but should we continue to let ourselves be beaten, that is, continue to let ourselves be
00:15:32provoked, continue to accept these
00:15:35things, won't there be a limit where one eventually says: now,
00:15:39now, we can no longer, what should one say, tolerate and what should one
00:15:43say, let ourselves be humiliated anymore. Yes, I also don't know how big a humiliation this
00:15:47is, I mean, I think one should also be careful not to blow it completely
00:15:50out of proportion, but it is clear that there are a lot of such
00:15:54grey areas and what one would call hybrid attacks, and
00:15:57there it is at least my expectation that Russia will constantly test the limits, and therefore it makes
00:16:01sense that we, within NATO, talk about how we handle
00:16:05this type of provocations, how we handle hybrid attacks, also hybrid attacks
00:16:09that are more than shooting a flare into the air,
00:16:12and then we must collectively find out when it is that there
00:16:15is a collective response from NATO, because it is clear that at some
00:16:19point one must give a response, but it must happen in cooperation
00:16:23with our European counterparts, uh, when
00:16:26the Minister of Defense has chosen not, what should one say, to call for a
00:16:29collective response from the other NATO countries, is that
00:16:32then, what should one say, a correct balance he has found there, do you think? Yes, I
00:16:36support both the Minister of Defense and the government
00:16:40fully in their handling of this so far, I mean, they have reacted
00:16:43promptly, and it is also my expectation that one would continue to reconnoiter in the Baltic Sea
00:16:47area, and that is actually the most important thing, because it is what the Russians want us
00:16:51to stop doing, thank you, so thank you,
00:16:54that was Alex Vanopslagh, and a short while ago, our reporter at
00:16:58Christiansborg also caught the political spokesperson for the
00:17:01Red-Green Alliance, Pelle Dragsted, who supports
00:17:04the government's handling,
00:17:07"it is deeply serious, and it is just another in a long series
00:17:11of examples that Putin's regime constantly
00:17:14pushes the limits and carries out these hybrid or
00:17:18hostile attacks in various places in Europe, we have seen it in Lithuania, we have
00:17:22seen it with very serious attacks in Germany or failed
00:17:25attacks, so this is an escalation from Putin's
00:17:28regime, which we must take deeply seriously. Should we try to retaliate in
00:17:31kind? Well, we must of course try to avoid
00:17:35an escalation, that is very important to us, but at the same time it is also,
00:17:39at the same time it is incredibly important that we show that this does not divide Europe, that we stand
00:17:43together, because the purpose of this is to weaken Europe's
00:17:46support for Ukraine and resistance to Putin's regime, and therefore the
00:17:50right answer is to, so to speak, stand firm and strengthen that
00:17:54support, but how far do you think we here at home
00:17:57should put up with these provocations, because
00:18:00uh, does it change anything that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs now
00:18:04summons an ambassador for a telling off? Well, those are the
00:18:07diplomatic tools we have, it is to summon
00:18:10the ambassador, one can also take other steps, I think it is handled wisely and correctly
00:18:14by our government, and our Minister of Defense, our Minister of Foreign Affairs, the
00:18:17important thing here, do you think it changes anything, well, we can
00:18:21only put the pressure on Russia that we already do by being
00:18:24one of the countries in Europe that to the highest degree supports Ukraine's
00:18:28resistance against the Russian occupation, and we must continue to do so, and
00:18:31we must not in any way allow ourselves to be distracted by these Russian
00:18:34provocations. You say we can't do anything else, we can do a lot.
00:18:38Well, this is always a balance, we don't want a direct war
00:18:44a third world war, so it's a balance that we constantly
00:18:48have to find, and land
00:18:51in the right place, and I believe that the steps the government has
00:18:55taken in this case are the right ones, I also think the signals sent by the German
00:18:58government in connection with the failed attack we saw there have been right
00:19:02and wise, this is a deeply serious situation, the crucial thing now is that
00:19:06Europe stands together, and therefore it is of course also frightening that we somewhere,
00:19:09most recently with a local election in Germany, see a growing
00:19:12support for parties that are connected to Putin's regime.
00:19:16Now let's go back to yesterday, to the incident that happened, which has
00:19:20so much brought politicians to the forefront today,
00:19:23and then we'll give the viewers, all of us, an
00:19:27answer to what we actually know has happened, and what we still need answers
00:19:30to. So Mads, you start, how, what happened?
00:19:33It's a completely routine operation from
00:19:37the Danish authorities' side, that they want to, so to speak, keep a physical
00:19:41eye on, or at least in some way escort foreign
00:19:44state ships that sail, either they have always
00:19:47done it, or sorry, they have done it, yes, it happens all the time in
00:19:51international waters, itself
00:19:54that is, it's a, a, a
00:19:58fascinating question, because normally you do it when they
00:20:01sail through Danish waters, then you really want to, so to speak, physically
00:20:04escort them, follow them through. With the help of
00:20:08defense ships, planes, or helicopters. Sometimes,
00:20:11there are these small pockets of international waters,
00:20:15which are actually quite close to Danish territory, where foreign state ships, in
00:20:19this case Russian warships, can lie completely
00:20:22legitimately and keep watch, it's such a good central resting place
00:20:26where you are allowed to be. There it is desirable for Danish authorities to
00:20:30come out and document and keep an eye on what kind of ship it is, uh, what kind
00:20:34of instruments it has on board, what class of? all
00:20:38such things, so these observation tasks are
00:20:41routine, they happen all the time, and who defines these
00:20:44pockets again, is this a matter of definition, I mean, you know,
00:20:48I'm trying to get in and find out when, uh, from both sides, so when you're lying there in
00:20:52such a pocket, is it normal for a
00:20:55helicopter to come and take photos?
00:20:59Yes, but the situation is
00:21:03unusual, and one of the things that
00:21:07whether this Russian frigate was in transit, uh,
00:21:11on its way in and out of the Baltic Sea, as Russian frigates often are, or was
00:21:15it part of the large Russian naval operation that Russia is currently conducting,
00:21:18which is about protecting the shadow fleet. If it's the latter, then it could have been a
00:21:22frigate that came to have a task, which was to lie in a specific area by
00:21:26gasses, or in Danish waters and keep an eye on,
00:21:29what what NATO is doing, and if that's the last thing, then
00:21:33I think it puts the situation a little differently, so I think there
00:21:36are many things at the moment that we need to defend, we also need to find
00:21:40out more about this Danish helicopter, how exactly did it fly, how
00:21:44is it perceived by the Russians and all that kind of thing, so there are
00:21:47many things, by the nature of the case, there's a lot we don't know right now. now, and it's
00:21:51also a question of when we will eventually become wiser about
00:21:54it. What we see here, it's important to emphasize, it's archive footage, it also
00:21:58clearly says so in the corner, but these are pictures of a
00:22:02Fenik helicopter, so one like the one that was also involved
00:22:05in yesterday's incident, these are pictures from an exercise, so
00:22:09uh, describe such a helicopter that comes, we don't know how
00:22:12close to the Russian frigate, Mads or what? No, we don't know,
00:22:16so uh, we're still waiting to get, you could say, an answer. on how close
00:22:20or how far away it was, but but that is a
00:22:24helicopter type that was sent out yesterday, so it's one
00:22:28of, you could say, the defense's more uh light and also
00:22:31older types of helicopters, they are used for
00:22:34special operations forces, which is probably what we see, hopping in and out there, and then
00:22:38they are also used for the police's action force, uh, sometimes
00:22:41they are also used for traffic control, you can be unlucky enough to get a speeding ticket from such
00:22:45a one, uh, and then they are also sent out on these
00:22:48surveillance tasks, it's such that the defense does
00:22:52not feel that they have enough ships, i.e. enough naval ships to send out and
00:22:55handle all these things, so they get help from the good colleagues in
00:22:59the air force, and it's such people who are sent out on such
00:23:03a task, and normally uh, it happens, it happens in that
00:23:07way, because in the Danish defense, there are specific orders
00:23:10to act de-escalating, i.e. they are sent
00:23:13out with a set of orders that deal with: must act
00:23:16de-escalating, and that means that you shouldn't play too smart. being too
00:23:20provocative and flying in attack profile and pretending and
00:23:23all sorts of things, what happened out there in that particular situation,
00:23:27we don't know, but we know that they usually approach with
00:23:31relative caution, whether they did it here, we don't know,
00:23:34uh, and then a signal is shot in the other direction, which is also
00:23:38such,
00:23:40i.e. an escalating thing to do, because normally
00:23:44the Russian ship could have done other things, they could have blinked their lights, they
00:23:48could have called on the radio, that... we must understand that, we have
00:23:51the Minister of Defense's word for it, so here something is being shot at them, so there
00:23:55has been, there has been confrontation before such a
00:23:58signal bus, so what, what are the normal reasons
00:24:01to fire such a thing? Well, I mean, it's, you could say,
00:24:05a part of the escalation or communication ladder, which
00:24:09starts with normal communication on the radio,
00:24:13uh, you can call up and say, "Keep your
00:24:15distance," you can blink with a signal lamp that is close
00:24:19by. Manoeuvres, such different things, so when you slowly
00:24:23climb up that uh
00:24:26escalation ladder, you enter a category called
00:24:29warning shots, and warning shots, yes, you can
00:24:32actually uh place, I mean, you can place this flare both
00:24:36in the category called warning shots, you can also place such a flare under what is
00:24:40called visual communication, and that's what's so
00:24:44both clever, but also very difficult
00:24:47for this situation, because well, was it a warning shot, or was it
00:24:51actually just completely innocent communication, so
00:24:54uh, so so that makes it difficult to handle,
00:24:58and we also need to find out if we get an answer to that, whether the politicians,
00:25:02whether the members of the defense committee, who are currently being briefed
00:25:06by Minister of Defense Jeppe Brus, whether they will
00:25:09become wiser, how much information they have at all, how many of these details,
00:25:13we should also hear from the chairman of Venstre and former Minister of Defense
00:25:17Troels Lund Poulsen, who also views the matter
00:25:20with seriousness, it is first and foremost again an expression
00:25:24of Russian aggression and
00:25:27cynicism, I must also say, I unfortunately don't think it's
00:25:30surprising, but it's very serious what we are seeing, and it also shows what a
00:25:34very difficult security policy situation we are in, and I would also like to
00:25:38commend the government for taking this as seriously as it does, and also for
00:25:42summoning the Russian ambassador for a conversation, because this
00:25:45is something that must be taken very, very seriously, what do you think?
00:25:50What kind of signal are the Russians sending when they uh
00:25:53do as they do? It's a cynical signal, it's an expression of
00:25:57Russia being extremely aggressive in terms
00:26:00of maintaining their presence around
00:26:03the Baltic Sea, and willing to go very, very far, and also
00:26:07constantly looking at how to provoke
00:26:11potential conflicts, and we must also be very aware of that.
00:26:15You say then, you commend the minister's
00:26:18response, that is, that the ambassador has now been summoned
00:26:21for a conversation at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, what do you think
00:26:24that changes? It is to insist on taking the
00:26:28diplomatic path, and I think that is absolutely crucial in this
00:26:31situation. "We need to show the Russians that we
00:26:35will not tolerate the way they behave." On the other hand,
00:26:38this is also a balanced
00:26:41approach that one must have, uh, I also agree that one should not
00:26:45use Article 4 of NATO to make a
00:26:49consultation, as some are discussing, one
00:26:52should, but this again underlines the importance of,
00:26:55the necessity of rearming, strengthening Danish
00:26:59defense and getting the capacities in place that
00:27:02are missing, because uh, when you see what is happening right now in
00:27:06relation to Russia, we can see that Russia is currently producing far
00:27:10more weapons than they are using in Ukraine, and if
00:27:13you look at that into 2027, what kind of
00:27:16scenario can one fear, yes, I think anyone can
00:27:20imagine that. Yes, Christina Kurtsen, we just heard from
00:27:23Troels Lund Poulsen, who has spent many, many hours in
00:27:27the building behind you, the Ministry of Defense, but now
00:27:30there is another user in, it is Jeppe. who is now Minister of Defense, who is in the middle of a
00:27:34briefing with the defense committee, and how is it going,
00:27:37Christina?
00:27:41Yes, we simply don't know anything about that, those kinds of
00:27:44briefings in the Ministry of Defense here behind
00:27:47me, they take place without cell phones
00:27:50and that kind of thing being allowed, so we can't, it
00:27:54happens for security reasons, so we can't be in contact with anyone
00:27:57along the way, so we have to patiently wait for them to come out again
00:28:01and maybe tell us. also something about what they have been told, yes, maybe
00:28:05we'll get to speak to them, if they can, will they say
00:28:08anything, do you also expect us to hear more from the Minister of Defense
00:28:12after the meeting?
00:28:16I actually don't know, uh, it could very well be, they are well
00:28:19aware that there is a great demand for more
00:28:23information about what has happened in this situation, but there can
00:28:27also easily, when it comes to something like
00:28:30this, be things that for
00:28:33security reasons one does not want to announce
00:28:37further, and we got a reaction from him when
00:28:41he went into the ministry for
00:28:43the briefing, so I don't actually know if he has more to say when
00:28:47he's done briefing the parties.
00:28:50Mette Frederiksen, the Prime Minister, we have received a written
00:28:54response saying that, unfortunately, this is not surprising
00:28:58from the Russian side. What kind of work is going on right now in
00:29:01the Prime Minister's
00:29:02office?
00:29:05Well, the Prime Minister's Office stays very closely
00:29:09informed when such things happen, and when there are such
00:29:12situations, one can also easily imagine that
00:29:15she is in contact with other
00:29:19government leaders around Europe,
00:29:22uh, but of course we don't know exactly what she's doing, sometimes it also
00:29:26happens in such situations that
00:29:29the Prime Minister chooses to summon party leaders
00:29:32for a briefing, we haven't heard anything about that
00:29:36yet, that it should, that it should be planned, but there's no
00:29:40doubt that when one is in such a situation, then
00:29:43the Prime Minister is also fully
00:29:47informed and follows very closely what is happening,
00:29:51and then there's the Minister of Foreign Affairs, who has summoned the Russian
00:29:54ambassador, Vladimir Babin, for a conversation, we don't
00:29:58yet know when, what is happening in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs?
00:30:02institution,
00:30:06well, it's the same, that you follow very closely, presumably have
00:30:10contacts with other countries to
00:30:13inform about what has happened, uh, and see and
00:30:17hear how they view the situation, and then
00:30:21the Russian ambassador will, as I said, have a conversation
00:30:24at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it typically takes place with the Permanent Secretary of the
00:30:28Ministry of Foreign Affairs, where it is made clear that this is...
00:30:33is completely unacceptable,
00:30:35uh, and then one probably also considers, are there other
00:30:39things one should do, anything else one can do. And Christine, what kind
00:30:42of signal is it to ask the
00:30:46Russian ambassador to come for a
00:30:49conversation?
00:30:52Well, that's a diplomatic
00:30:55step that one can use. There's a
00:30:58diplomatic ladder, you can also start
00:31:02expelling diplomats, you can, if it's on the very large scale.