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00:00:00are considered missing under special circumstances, according to
00:00:03the latest data from the national police, and all their
00:00:06families wait daily for news about their
00:00:09relatives.
00:00:13So, about assistance to families whose relatives are missing, we will talk
00:00:17today on the program, with us on the line is a People's Deputy of
00:00:20Ukraine, head of the subcommittee on veteran rehabilitation of the
00:00:24Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine Committee, Iryna Nekorak. Ms.
00:00:28Iryna, I welcome you, thank you for... joining the
00:00:30conversation. Welcome. So, in
00:00:342025, the Ombudsman received 776
00:00:38complaints regarding the appointment and payment of benefits for the death of
00:00:41a serviceman. And this is actually the largest category of
00:00:44problematic appeals. So, why are there such
00:00:47delays?
00:00:50Well, in practice, we observe quite
00:00:53many cases when communication between
00:00:56the TCC and the military unit, in the context of
00:01:00information exchange, data transfer, it
00:01:03happens quite slowly, plus they often submit an incomplete package of
00:01:07documents, or make mistakes in it, and because
00:01:10of this the path to
00:01:14properly processing all payments and supporting
00:01:17the family of the missing person is delayed for months, and
00:01:21sometimes even longer.
00:01:24We, perhaps, remember 2023,
00:01:27when we, as a political... force
00:01:31of the European Solidarity faction, raised the first questions about
00:01:34the need for digitalization and automatic
00:01:37provision of a combat participant's certificate, not a certificate, but the status
00:01:41of a combat participant. There were huge
00:01:44discussions, at first they said that it was impossible to digitalize these
00:01:47processes, because the data might be unprotected, it was impossible
00:01:51to synchronize registers and databases held by
00:01:54the Ministry of Defense, including the TCC, but still
00:01:58this process then moved from a dead end, and the same
00:02:01thing is happening now in many areas, this actually applies not
00:02:05only to families of the missing, it applies to other areas,
00:02:09so we insist and often initiate and
00:02:12try to push through legislative
00:02:15initiatives as quickly as possible, which
00:02:19will help,
00:02:21if not completely, then at least bring this indicator closer to
00:02:25digitalization, to synchronization between
00:02:28registers, between the work
00:02:30of various central executive bodies that hold all these
00:02:34databases, so that in practice
00:02:37Ukrainians, and families of the missing,
00:02:40and families of the deceased, and families
00:02:43of servicemen, could timely
00:02:46receive those social services, benefits
00:02:49and payments that are guaranteed to them at the state level
00:02:53and accordingly funds are provided
00:02:56in the state budget. In fact, they talk about bureaucracy.
00:03:00Families for a long time, well, the main thing they talk about is
00:03:03bureaucracy in these payments, but actually, if we talk about
00:03:06digitalization, then our country,
00:03:09probably one of those that, where digitalization is in the first
00:03:13place, and it is very, it
00:03:16has spread very widely and digitalization is at a high level, but probably not
00:03:19when we talk about tragedies, right, because when it comes to
00:03:23families of the deceased or families of missing servicemen, then
00:03:27there is a lot of this paperwork. At what stage
00:03:31is this digitalization now, to make it still
00:03:34synchronized and create this electronic
00:03:37register? Well, here it is worth
00:03:41probably asking such a question to
00:03:45the head or members of the relevant defense committee, because
00:03:48after all, these
00:03:52issues fall within the scope of their relevant committee,
00:03:55whether there is a development
00:03:58of such a register as of now or not, I don't know for
00:04:01sure, but one way or another, we still observe
00:04:05quite often in such sensitive
00:04:09issues the exchange of
00:04:12paper documents, I sincerely hope that
00:04:15in the near future this will be regulated, but from
00:04:19my practice, as a people's deputy, I quite often
00:04:23write a huge number of parliamentary inquiries, and in
00:04:26fact, manually. I try to help
00:04:30this or that family or serviceman
00:04:34with various issues, you have already mentioned that there is a long
00:04:37time between a certificate from the TCC about
00:04:41death and a certificate from the military medical commission, where
00:04:44very often the exact same text is written, and in fact,
00:04:47a whole year can pass, and only then does the family
00:04:51receive the very first payment, how can we possibly
00:04:54reduce this bureaucracy and speed up this payment process?
00:04:58Payments at this time, or is it impossible to do this now,
00:05:02what needs to be done at all to speed up the payment
00:05:05process? Well, I generally observe
00:05:08quite a high dispersion
00:05:11of the social system, this applies to payments to
00:05:15families of the missing, and quite often, as you
00:05:18know, the processing time for a one-time cash payment
00:05:21in the event of the death of a serviceman
00:05:25takes quite a long time, meaning there are several different tracks
00:05:29for which the responsible central executive body is
00:05:33the Ministry of Defense, and at the level of the Ministry of Defense, there is
00:05:36a special commission that reviews these packages of documents, so
00:05:40here it is probably worth considering, perhaps...
00:05:43in the future, to consider
00:05:46the decentralization of the work of this commission in order to at least at the
00:05:50regional level, it would be possible
00:05:53to unify some standard cases, but
00:05:56given the number of appeals that you mentioned at the beginning of our
00:06:00conversation, appeals specifically to the Ombudsman, we must
00:06:03understand that systemic solutions are needed here. You know, I would like to add here, probably, that these and
00:06:06the number of appeals 776, yes, these are only
00:06:09those people who... know about such an opportunity that one can contact
00:06:13the Ombudsman, yes, and leave this appeal,
00:06:17and it may be considered, but I know, Ms. Iryna, that you
00:06:21actually quite actively communicate with families of the deceased, with families of the missing,
00:06:24you have already also said that you send
00:06:28certain appeals to the Ministry of Defense, and is there feedback, well, look, I
00:06:32will never abandon a family that turned to me until the moment
00:06:36I bring this issue to some logical resolution, this actually...
00:06:40concerns even veterans,
00:06:44active defenders, with whom I have constant dialogue, to whom I
00:06:47help in the area of prosthetics, treatment, and
00:06:50medical provision, some issues of course accumulate,
00:06:54and as a result of this, we
00:06:58and our colleagues write legislative initiatives
00:07:01that later turn into law, just
00:07:04recently we adopted a very important law
00:07:0713704d, which concerns
00:07:09prosthetics. which
00:07:12concerns payments to our servicemen who
00:07:16received serious injuries and are undergoing
00:07:19long-term inpatient treatment,
00:07:22to the boys and girls released from captivity,
00:07:25so actually here each individual
00:07:29case needs to be discussed, but I
00:07:31am convinced that we will still have a detailed and
00:07:35in-depth dialogue with colleagues from the relevant committee, in
00:07:39order to support and help...
00:07:42people who have been waiting for such payments for a year or more. Missing
00:07:45servicemen, that's a separate category, and as far as I
00:07:49spoke with families, I was surprised to learn that
00:07:53they are not attached to any unit, and currently
00:07:56belong to the category of veterans, meaning
00:07:59they actually belong neither to the Ministry of Veterans Affairs nor to
00:08:02the Ministry of Defense, no agency is responsible for them,
00:08:05at least that's what the families of those who
00:08:09died and those families with whom they communicate say.
00:08:13And so relatives have to go to social protection, ask about
00:08:16benefits, about payments, there are some certain local initiatives in
00:08:20communities. Previously, at least it was possible to recognize
00:08:23a person as deceased through court if there were witnesses on the battlefield,
00:08:26yes, that the husband died, or for example, and no one from the family
00:08:30is against it, now there is no such possibility, and
00:08:33the family is actually in such a case in such a long period of
00:08:36uncertainty, and of course they are in that uncertainty in
00:08:40a difficult state. such tragic news, and
00:08:44they also need to solve such problems independently. In
00:08:48your opinion, is it perhaps advisable to create a patronage service
00:08:51in Ukraine that would help families of the missing, which
00:08:55would help with support, with documents and solve these problems
00:08:58that accumulate after this tragic news,
00:09:02for example, could powers be given to public organizations,
00:09:06in your opinion, how should it work?
00:09:09Well, I would start by saying that a missing
00:09:12person officially remains assigned
00:09:15to a military unit, just in a special
00:09:19status until the circumstances are clarified,
00:09:22accordingly, we have social support,
00:09:25social support means social
00:09:28support, that is, at the level of the TCC, they should
00:09:31continue to maintain communication with
00:09:35the families of the missing, because according to the legal component,
00:09:38they still remain assigned to this structure, but in
00:09:42these unpleasant situations, as you rightly say, when they are
00:09:46manipulated by the terrorist country from
00:09:49the Russian Federation, when various photos are displayed,
00:09:53communication takes place in various chats through
00:09:56Telegram channels and so on. As for
00:10:00the patronage service, what I see in practice is that the
00:10:04institution of the patronage service works very well, as
00:10:07a super exemplary case at the level of the Third
00:10:10Assault Brigade and at the level of Azov for many
00:10:13years, and this applies to the entire category, they communicate with families
00:10:17of the missing, and with families of the deceased, and the wounded, and
00:10:20those who are released from captivity, or who are in... captivity, that is, they
00:10:24are fully engaged in communication, restoring documents, ensuring
00:10:28all payments with such categories of
00:10:31Ukrainians. Can this be scaled up to all
00:10:35of Ukraine? Obviously, it is quite difficult, because
00:10:38much depends on the leadership that is shown at
00:10:42the level of this or that brigade or already now
00:10:45a corps. Many brigades try to implement these patronage
00:10:48services. The Ministry of Veterans Affairs followed the same
00:10:52path. two years ago, they launched
00:10:55the institution of a veteran support specialist, it doesn't work perfectly now, we
00:10:59recently heard at the level of our committee
00:11:03an audit report and also
00:11:06from the Accounting Chamber, how
00:11:09this institution works throughout Ukraine, that is,
00:11:13in order to make something institutional that will work
00:11:16effectively and
00:11:20correctly, it takes a lot of time,
00:11:23of course, it takes money, and most importantly,
00:11:27it takes human capital,
00:11:29these are our people who must be trained to
00:11:32manage these complex processes. If we
00:11:35talk about public organizations, here there are, in my opinion,
00:11:39both weak and strong sides, well, actually, from the strong
00:11:43sides, public organizations, they are definitely more
00:11:47flexible, there is no bureaucracy, I say this as the founder of
00:11:51a public organization that supports women in the army, we also
00:11:55help girls who are on the front
00:11:58line, and we do this much faster than the Ministry of Defense.
00:12:02This does not mean that the Ministry of Defense works poorly, it simply means that we,
00:12:06as the public, can make decisions much faster,
00:12:09provide assistance much faster, and we are definitely non-bureaucratic, we are
00:12:13flexible, and of course the public sector enjoys
00:12:17great trust among society, but there are weak
00:12:20sides, because if we are talking about the category of
00:12:24missing or deceased, we cannot
00:12:27give public organizations access, for example, to state
00:12:31secrets, we cannot, because this contradicts current
00:12:34legislation, there must be access to this state
00:12:37secret, only a certain defined circle of people can work
00:12:41with this data, so the public sector
00:12:44definitely needs to be involved in
00:12:47developing, in obtaining their expertise, because they often
00:12:51accompany many families and help them in all possible ways.
00:12:55And for the formation of future policies
00:12:58together with, of course, the parliamentary corps, and these are public
00:13:02organizations and
00:13:04the ultimate, let's say, users
00:13:07of future services, these are actually families of servicemen. In fact,
00:13:11public organizations can become such a bridge, probably, between
00:13:14families, yes, in which a tragedy has occurred and
00:13:17between, well, conditionally, the TCC, and they can provide this
00:13:21information when a person receives this terrible news.
00:13:25She is in a very difficult state, so that she understands what
00:13:28to do, that is, she goes to one person who directs her, what
00:13:32she, what she needs to do in this situation,
00:13:35where to turn to and how she should proceed? It seems to me that
00:13:39public organizations should somehow exist in this
00:13:42story? In fact, public organizations
00:13:45also perform such a bridging role, and this happens both at
00:13:49the national level, in large cities, like
00:13:51Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, Lviv, Dnipro and others, but also
00:13:55in communities, already quite powerful centers are forming
00:13:58among leaders and
00:14:02public organizations, which one way or another support families. This is not
00:14:06everywhere. We cannot say that there is a network of these public organizations
00:14:10throughout Ukraine that can provide such
00:14:13support. But at the level of communities themselves,
00:14:17it seems to me that local governments
00:14:20and territorial communities
00:14:24should play a big role here.
00:14:27who should help these
00:14:31people first of all from an emotional and psychological
00:14:34point of view and physical and material, because you understand, when
00:14:38a family receives such news, no one
00:14:42thinks about how to go and submit all
00:14:45applications as quickly as possible, write all documents, process all papers, that's
00:14:49why I said at the beginning of our conversation about the need for
00:14:52full digitalization and synchronization. when a person
00:14:55writes one application and it works
00:14:59according to the rule that, for example, is effective in
00:15:03medicine, yes, when money follows the patient, here money
00:15:06should follow the family, the
00:15:09person who wrote the application, then
00:15:12other structures, bodies and central
00:15:15executive authorities should receive
00:15:18this call that here in our system another
00:15:22family has appeared, which received the status of a family of
00:15:25a missing person or a family of a deceased person or
00:15:28a family of a wounded person, and then, depending on
00:15:32what status this family receives and
00:15:35what benefits and payments are provided for it, because
00:15:39there are many of them today, this is the possibility
00:15:43to apply for a military pension for
00:15:46incapacitated parents, so to speak, of the deceased, and
00:15:50free travel on public transport,
00:15:53and discounts on utilities, and
00:15:57free education in higher education
00:16:00institutions for children in
00:16:03families of the deceased or missing with scholarships, free
00:16:06accommodation in dormitories. That is, there are a great many things
00:16:09that are provided for today,
00:16:12so the family, the family just needs to be
00:16:15informed at all stages about what opportunities
00:16:19it has and actually, what
00:16:21additional
00:16:25services and benefits it can use. You
00:16:28also mentioned the specialist for support, who works in
00:16:32communities, and how can families communicate with them,
00:16:35because I understand that there is quite little information on this
00:16:39matter, and can this support specialist
00:16:43help all families, or how
00:16:46to find him in the community, does it depend on
00:16:50the community whether there is such a specialist, or are such
00:16:53specialists being trained in the state now, how does this procedure
00:16:55work? Such specialists are trained without
00:16:59prior training,
00:17:02how to provide certain services of
00:17:05psychological and legal nature, they cannot
00:17:09start, they cannot be employed,
00:17:12and accordingly receive wages, so usually
00:17:15such support specialists are located at local government
00:17:19bodies at the level of the territorial community, and
00:17:23of course they have information about the number of veterans,
00:17:27who these people are, well, you know, in big cities
00:17:31it might be quite more difficult, in small cities everyone knows
00:17:35everyone, so they... try
00:17:38to find access, because veterans are different, needs
00:17:41are different, they all gain combat
00:17:45experience, but this experience and its negative impact on
00:17:48a person's psyche and health are also different, someone
00:17:52returning to civilian life in wartime,
00:17:56gaining the status of a veteran, quickly restores
00:17:59their professional identity, or takes a grant for their own
00:18:03business, or gets a job in
00:18:07state or municipal enterprises,
00:18:11or returns to their previous job in their previous work collective, someone,
00:18:15for example, just wants to rest and not do anything for half a year,
00:18:18so depending on the state this
00:18:22person is in, what specific or special
00:18:26needs they have, whether the person has a disability or not
00:18:28a disability, there are many nuances, also many categories of
00:18:32veterans, as combat participants, and
00:18:35a support specialist must.
00:18:38In fact, just as the patronage service works at the brigade level, which we discussed, in
00:18:41the Third Assault and in Azov, here the support specialist deals with
00:18:45case management of an individual and
00:18:49guides them individually, helping with,
00:18:52including some documents, with
00:18:55submitting this package of documents, with receiving benefits, with
00:18:59informing and so on, that is, full support, and
00:19:02quite often I observe situations
00:19:06when... active veterans
00:19:09who have demobilized, returned to civilian life in their
00:19:12communities, retrained
00:19:15and become veteran support specialists, and in this way they
00:19:19have this principle, peer-to-peer, when
00:19:22a person with similar or similar experience
00:19:25understands the challenges faced by a veteran
00:19:28and can provide these services very well
00:19:32and effectively. I understand that they also work with
00:19:36families of servicemen. Support specialists, that is, they can
00:19:40provide this information and help with some specific document processing,
00:19:43with collecting documents and similar things, when a person
00:19:46received this terrible news.
00:19:50They, they work specifically with families, with
00:19:53the veteran and the veteran's family, this means that
00:19:57the person is a combat participant and they are
00:19:59demobilized.
00:20:02Ms. Iryna, let's return to the patronage service, I would like to ask
00:20:05something else, is it really useful, it seems to me, to provide
00:20:09families with this information, because I understand, well, since in practice we have already
00:20:13talked about this, yes, a person
00:20:15receives news that a relative is missing from
00:20:19the TCC and that's it, at this point the function of the TCC ends
00:20:22in practice, and then people look for some
00:20:26information themselves, and I know
00:20:29cases where families reached out to Russians
00:20:32in their search, and this is a big problem, because very often they
00:20:36actually, actually deceive families, extort
00:20:39money, how can we help them here, how to
00:20:42explain that they don't need to
00:20:46contact them, that they need to contact verified sources, certain
00:20:51structures, what needs to be done in this
00:20:54story? Well, actually, after the family
00:20:57receives news that a member of their
00:21:01family, husband, wife, brother or
00:21:04sister is in the status of a missing person,
00:21:07they should then write corresponding applications
00:21:10to the national police, and
00:21:13then, having received, having written
00:21:16the application, having received the relevant documents, they can already apply
00:21:19through the CNAP, but with a complete package of documents regarding
00:21:23appropriate accruals, receiving benefits and so on. It seems to me that at
00:21:27the stage when they turn to the police and write,
00:21:30submit the relevant documents, there should
00:21:33be information provided to these people
00:21:37in order to protect them from
00:21:40further possible communication through
00:21:43these unauthorized various
00:21:46networks, chats, where
00:21:50this risk arises when the Russians
00:21:53manipulate the grief of an individual family.
00:21:57You already said that after the TCC, people go to
00:22:00the police, then they go to the CNAP, so this is such a long chain that
00:22:04people with grief must go through after the tragic
00:22:07news, and is it possible to create some kind of single structure,
00:22:10perhaps it has already been discussed, they talked about it, to allocate,
00:22:14for example, one day a week or two days a week, so that all these representatives...
00:22:18That is, the TCC, the police, this
00:22:20CNAP representative, they would all be in one place, so that a person
00:22:24could come and submit all these
00:22:27documents, get all this information, and not go to different
00:22:30structures, and you know, it often happens in our country that they also send from one
00:22:34office to another.
00:22:37I generally believe, if you ask my personal opinion, I believe that
00:22:40a person should write only one application, and the state as
00:22:44the holder of this information,
00:22:47classified, with the stamp of a state
00:22:50secret, which is not subject to dissemination,
00:22:53should collect this entire package of documents and simply
00:22:57inform the family about the stages and timeframes,
00:23:00when, in what order, in what amount they will receive
00:23:04additional payments, benefits, or what to do, when to expect
00:23:08some kind of answer, because you understand how many Ukrainian
00:23:12families for the fifth year know nothing
00:23:15about their family
00:23:18members, who are still listed
00:23:22as missing, and this number, unfortunately, will only
00:23:25increase. We understand that with such high intensity of combat operations that
00:23:29are currently taking place on the front, and not
00:23:32only on the front, it seems to me that in principle, in the conditions in which we now
00:23:36live in large cities, and with
00:23:39these 10-15 alarms and constant
00:23:42shelling, it is quite difficult, so
00:23:46the single window principle, and when a person writes one application, and the
00:23:50state then deals with
00:23:52synchronization between different structures, between the TCC, between
00:23:56the police, between the coordination headquarters, which
00:23:58deals with prisoner exchanges, because
00:24:02you know that those who are in the status of missing persons, sometimes
00:24:06situations arise that during
00:24:09prisoner exchanges, these people return to their homeland.home,
00:24:13that also happens, so I think
00:24:17that 100% of Ukrainian families in them... hope does not die, and
00:24:21they hope that someday they will be able
00:24:23to see
00:24:25their, their relatives, they are definitely
00:24:28waiting, Ms. Iryna, and if we talk about communities, yes,
00:24:32that help families of the missing,
00:24:35I know a case, for example, that in Bila Tserkva
00:24:39families themselves were forced to go to the city council so that
00:24:42it would pay attention to them, that is, there were some active
00:24:46wives who initiated, for example, a square
00:24:49that... needs to be done, moreover, they went to the city
00:24:52council and forced them to collect this list, that is, the city council
00:24:56did not even know the entire list of families that are in
00:25:00their community, who among them is missing,
00:25:03and actually, does anyone control how
00:25:07communities are treated, families of the missing
00:25:10in communities, and what should people do in such
00:25:13cases? Well, there are more active
00:25:17communities, there are less active communities. They
00:25:20react differently and communicate.
00:25:23Someone communicates well, someone communicates poorly. It seems to me
00:25:27that here it is necessary to set requirements
00:25:30through deputies of city councils, who
00:25:33represent people in local
00:25:36self-government bodies. The same applies
00:25:40to people's deputies, because in
00:25:43every community of Ukraine there is definitely a representative in parliament,
00:25:46and I would recommend contacting and going to...
00:25:50receptions of deputies of city, village councils,
00:25:53regional, district, and also to people's deputies,
00:25:57who definitely communicate
00:26:01with communities, with... their heads, leaders, and at
00:26:04the level of the military-civilian administration, and can raise certain
00:26:08issues and budget allocation and
00:26:11using instruments of petitions, and written
00:26:15appeals on behalf of public organizations, if such a legal entity
00:26:19is registered, if it's just an initiative group and
00:26:22several families have united their efforts to achieve
00:26:26the creation of a square, then it seems to me
00:26:29that initiative is needed, and of course. that
00:26:33pressure, I would say, of a political nature, through
00:26:37deputies of different levels, who are representatives of people in
00:26:41one or another Ukrainian city or community. In
00:26:44conclusion, Ms. Iryna, what do families say about the problem
00:26:47of qualified psychologists? For example, a person comes
00:26:50to the police to give these testimonies,
00:26:54right? When a relative is missing, and
00:26:57there is an ordinary policeman, an ordinary investigator,
00:27:01who takes these... testimonies from them, and it seems to me that
00:27:05here we need to talk precisely about the training of psychologists or the training
00:27:08of those investigators who should communicate with such families, because this is
00:27:12truly grief, and
00:27:15in general, is any work being done now, or
00:27:18is such a question generally being raised, like qualified
00:27:21psychologists for communicating with
00:27:23families, at the stage before collecting
00:27:26documents?
00:27:30Well, at the stage, as you said, when a family comes in, right? And files a report
00:27:34with the police, right? When they received a notice, notification that
00:27:38a member of their family was listed as missing,
00:27:41then, of course, by law there is no such requirement for
00:27:45a psychologist to be present during such a conversation. There is a requirement only
00:27:49for the presence of a psychologist for a minor, but
00:27:52of course, one family or another, being in different psychological and mental
00:27:56states, they can petition that
00:27:59as an authorized person, a psychologist they either
00:28:03hire themselves, there is no such state service
00:28:06as of today, or they will arrange with
00:28:10psychologists who work with various public
00:28:13organizations, representatives of civil society. Such
00:28:17organizations also exist. If we generally talk about
00:28:20the training of psychologists throughout the country, then
00:28:24it is obvious that there are not enough of them, their number will
00:28:27only increase.
00:28:29The same applies to...
00:28:32prosthetists, orthotists, we did not
00:28:35have such a specialty in medical faculties even 10 years
00:28:38ago, let alone 5 years ago, so a prosthetist could
00:28:42be a person without a higher medical education, and in fact it is still
00:28:46the case. It was only after the relevant requirements and
00:28:50a transitional period were prescribed, that within five to eight years
00:28:54all prosthetists-orthotists must receive medical education. You understand that
00:28:57it's at least 5 years, right? If we deprive everyone of
00:29:01accreditation now, then we won't... be left at all, we will be left
00:29:04with zero prosthetists, as they say. The same
00:29:07applies to psychologists, civilian psychologists, there can
00:29:11be a large number of them in Ukraine, who
00:29:14are getting an education, or are already providing services as professional
00:29:18psychologists, but here it is worth talking about the fact that we will definitely
00:29:21need them now, and especially in the post-war period, when
00:29:25there will be a huge wave of demobilization, precisely
00:29:27military psychologists or psychologists who know how
00:29:31to work with combat. my with PTSD, this
00:29:34is a slightly different specialization, it's like, you know, in
00:29:38principle in medicine, yes, there is a surgeon, there is a therapist, there is a neuropathologist
00:29:41and so on, in psychology it's similar, no, no, if you have
00:29:45a psychologist's specialty, that doesn't mean that you can help a person
00:29:49who, conditionally speaking, was in captivity or received
00:29:53such a combat injury PTSD and cannot generally integrate and
00:29:56adapt to civilian life, so here retraining is needed, not
00:30:00two-month courses. I completed courses online,
00:30:03received a certificate and am ready to provide support. Now
00:30:07there are many such people, it seems to me that this
00:30:10even worsens the situation, because if you do not have the appropriate
00:30:13competence, you can exclusively harm a person and
00:30:17make their condition worse than it was before the person started
00:30:20communicating with such a quasi-psychologist, there will be a huge challenge, and it seems
00:30:24to me that we will not, we are already a nation of traumatized people,
00:30:28who will need the services
00:30:31of a psychotherapist. for a very long period of time, this is not
00:30:34only military veterans and well,
00:30:38defenders, but also civilian population,
00:30:41which is constantly under
00:30:44shelling, these are our children, children of war,
00:30:47who do not have access to education, who grow up in shelters, at
00:30:51school or at home, so yes, you are raising an
00:30:54absolutely relevant and correct question,
00:30:58that in the future we...