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00:00:00live in fear, a report to see on France
00:00:0224.
00:00:08It's noon in Paris, welcome, we'll be together until 2 PM, this is Paris
00:00:13Anthropic said that it is about Live, tension is high in Russia on the last day of the legislative elections,
00:00:16Ukraine carried out a very large-scale attack, notably in Moscow,
00:00:20a candidate died in Kherson in Ukraine, these
00:00:23are four people, including three children, who lost their
00:00:26lives. Two German regions are voting today.
00:00:30The stakes are such that the Chancellor canceled his departure for New York, he convened an emergency meeting
00:00:34for this evening, the AFD could make new gains after its victory in
00:00:37Saxony, even if the far-left is very mobilized in
00:00:41Berlin. As every year, the Heritage Days
00:00:44are a success, thousands of monuments accessible to the public
00:00:48to learn about our history as well as our
00:00:51traditions. You can also discover the construction sites
00:00:54led by
00:00:55enthusiasts.
00:01:01and... especially in the international AI
00:01:09Third and last day of voting
00:01:11She presents herself as the antidote to in Russia to renew the Duma, and the capital suffered a massive attack by
00:01:15Ukrainian drones, no casualties are to be deplored in Moscow, but four
00:01:19people were killed, among them, a candidate in the Kherson
00:01:22oblast. Ukrainian strikes have disabled a significant portion of Russia's
00:01:26refining capacity in recent months. Axel.
00:01:32According to the mayor of Moscow, this is an unprecedented Ukrainian offensive.
00:01:36speech, who leaves the The Russian capital and its region have been the target of several hundred
00:01:40issue today for the American tech giants who have billions Ukrainian drones, while most have been intercepted and shot down,
00:01:43several escaped Russian anti-aircraft defenses and notably
00:01:47struck several floors of a residential building in the capital
00:01:49or this oil refinery. Other
00:01:53devices fell in this residential neighborhood of Sofino in the Moscow
00:01:56region, causing casualties and significant damage.
00:02:30Russian strikes on more than 30 sites in the Kyiv region killed several people,
00:02:33including children, on Saturday and Sunday. This
00:02:37offensive also comes on the 3rd and last day of voting in Russia
00:02:40and has been denounced by Russian authorities as aiming to
00:02:44disrupt the election process. In the Kherson
00:02:47region, a southern Ukrainian region controlled by Russia,
00:02:49a drone notably killed several people, including an electoral
00:02:53commission employee. More than 4
00:02:56and a half years after the start of the large-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022,
00:03:00these legislative elections aim to renew the Duma, the lower house of the Russian
00:03:04parliament, in a context of repression of all forms
00:03:07of opposition, they should, without surprise, result in the victory
00:03:11of Vladimir Putin's party. Despite
00:03:14this, concern is growing within Russian society, rumors of a forthcoming
00:03:18mobilization are persistent and are pushing young people
00:03:21to leave the country, Léopéchar.
00:03:24Computer equipment and the like, his suitcase
00:03:27packed, this 28-year-old marketing specialist is
00:03:31ready to leave his country, with a heavy heart, it's
00:03:34very sad to leave Russia, my family lives here, as do my
00:03:38elderly grandparents, and I would like to spend the remaining years of their lives by their side,
00:03:42years that I hope will be long, a
00:03:44baggage check before taking the train to the Georgian
00:03:48border, the last kilometers to the checkpoint
00:03:51are done by car, on the
00:03:54road, dozens of vehicles abandoned, mostly in
00:03:572022, many Russians... had fled the country en masse
00:04:01after Moscow's announcement of a mobilization in its war against
00:04:04Ukraine, a forced enlistment that could happen
00:04:08again according to persistent rumors circulated
00:04:11notably by Kyiv. This is one of the main reasons that pushed
00:04:15this Russian to flee the territory.
00:04:18Rumors of mobilization scare me, even though I am
00:04:21classified in category C, which means I am not called up in peacetime,
00:04:25it's 12:14 in Paris, this is the essential you never know what can
00:04:27economy week happen from one day to the next.
00:04:31and he is not the only one to have made the journey, even if the scale of this
00:04:34exodus is not comparable to 2022, an organization
00:04:38Hello, welcome to the Echo helping these exiled Russians indicates that it was contacted 8
00:04:41times more in August than in May.
00:04:44American AI giants are sounding the alarm, Among the refuge countries, Georgia, but also
00:04:47Armenia.
00:04:49Since mid-July, there has been a wave of panic from Russia
00:04:53linked to the risk of mobilization, fuel shortages
00:04:56and internet disruptions. People live in
00:04:59unworthy conditions and this time they leave well in advance
00:05:03because they have seen what happened during previous waves, a migratory
00:05:07crisis is looming in Armenia if we are not already in the middle
00:05:10of it.
00:05:12The Secretary of the Security Council of the Armenian government
00:05:16declared that the country would help, if necessary, these
00:05:19Russians newly settled in the territory, statements
00:05:22deemed provocative by the Russian Minister of Foreign
00:05:25Affairs,
00:05:28and on this last day of voting in Russia
00:05:32well, Russians who have already chosen this exile
00:05:36demonstrate to denounce these elections that they
00:05:39call masquerades, these are images that reach
00:05:42us from Belgrade in Serbia where a large
00:05:46Russian community lives in the country,
00:05:50a mobilization therefore to denounce this
00:05:53election. The German Chancellor is ready to
00:05:56act as soon as the first results are announced, a crisis meeting of his
00:06:00conservative party is scheduled for this evening, the Lender
00:06:04vote today and the AFD could well register new
00:06:07gains after its historic victory in Sax
00:06:10Anhalt 2 weeks ago, gains nevertheless less
00:06:13significant, notably because in Berlin, the head of the list of the
00:06:17radical left is considered
00:06:18a favorite.
00:06:24the AfD. At 45, Elliferalp has
00:06:27every chance of becoming the first woman of immigrant origin to
00:06:31win a regional election and conquer the mayoralty of
00:06:34Berlin. We will show that a left-wing policy for
00:06:37citizens, a policy of solidarity and justice can
00:06:41be crowned with success and I hope that this will radiate across Germany
00:06:45and the whole world, that people will regain the hope that we can oppose something
00:06:49to the right, namely our solidarity, our
00:06:52diversity and our fight for equal rights and financial accessibility.
00:06:55Daughter of Turkish parents who fled their country after the
00:06:59military coup of 1980. This
00:07:02lawyer is often compared to Zoran Mamdani, Democratic mayor
00:07:05of New York. Like him, the radical left candidate
00:07:09places the issue of housing at the heart of her campaign. While Parisian
00:07:12rental prices have exploded over the last 15
00:07:15years, among her flagship proposals are their
00:07:19capping and especially the nationalization of 22,000
00:07:22housing units belonging to large real estate
00:07:25investors. The measure worries banks, but it is
00:07:28supported by Berliners who voted in its favor in
00:07:32a referendum in 2021.
00:07:36This is precisely what we are trying to achieve, an affordable
00:07:39Berlin, an affordable Berlin where everyone can finally live with us.
00:07:42for its part, Washington, which has...
00:08:08attacks that the kingdom has suffered for several days
00:08:12refused to provide military support to Riyadh on the Yemeni front, fears a
00:08:16rapid escalation of hostilities to the point that Donald Trump
00:08:19cut short his weekend at Camp David. The tools
00:08:23are advancing towards the east of Yemen, in the east
00:08:27beyond Yemen, in the East, there is Saudi Arabia,
00:08:31more than 120,000 people have been displaced
00:08:34since the resumption of fighting a few days
00:08:37ago. Emmanuel Macron continues his
00:08:40trip to Saint-Pierre and Miquelon. He meets the Canadian
00:08:44Prime Minister today, this visit is an opportunity for the President to remind that the territory is
00:08:47French, even if Donald Trump puts an American
00:08:51flag on his idealized map of the world. I propose you listen to Emmanuel
00:08:54Macron. It's obvious to us that this territory is
00:08:58French and territory attached to France, proud
00:09:01to be French as we are. And
00:09:05territory liberated by Free France.
00:09:07And let's not forget this Christmas
00:09:10Day. So uh... we are attached to it, there's no debate, there's no
00:09:14discussion, so we are here, France is present
00:09:17thanks to Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, by Saint-Pierre and Miquelon here, at the heart of
00:09:21the global challenges in this region, and
00:09:25this also links us with Canada and so it will be a way to
00:09:29talk about the future together and to consolidate our relations in many
00:09:32areas, it's therefore effective, the
00:09:36media banned from the White House could not enter, the
00:09:39decision had been made yesterday by Donald Trump, no less than... 6 weeks before the
00:09:43midterm elections, the president wants to control the narrative, but he
00:09:46might run into the constitution. Olivier
00:09:49Fessoal.
00:09:52Previously, these journalists could cross the gates of the White
00:09:55House to do their job, but this Saturday, they were
00:09:59stopped at the entrance and are now forced to do their live reports from
00:10:03the sidewalk. This measure comes the day after Donald
00:10:07Trump announced his intention to ban CNN,
00:10:10MSNBC and Politico, the three
00:10:14media outlets accused of spreading false information by the
00:10:18president, denounce their eviction and intend to
00:10:21challenge it in court. The American
00:10:24Constitution guarantees us the right
00:10:27to practice our profession without hindrance or interference from the
00:10:30government, and this ban constitutes an illegal
00:10:33infringement of this fundamental right. We will not
00:10:36be diverted from our duty to hold the government accountable. Donald
00:10:40Trump's decision has been strongly criticized, notably by
00:10:43the White House Correspondents' Association, which brings together journalists
00:10:47accredited by the presidency. Today's action revoking access for journalists
00:10:51from CNN, Politico and MSN violates the first
00:10:55amendment, the American people, through a free and independent
00:10:58press, must be able to question those who are elected to power, regardless of whether
00:11:02government officials are favorable or not, the White House
00:11:05Correspondents' Association calls on the administration to immediately restore access
00:11:08to our colleagues. Since his return to power, the American president
00:11:12has multiplied attacks against the press. He blames these three
00:11:16media for spreading false information under the pretext that they are
00:11:19not favorable to him. When you
00:11:22watch CNN, it's simply false. That's why their
00:11:25ratings are not good, when you watch MSNBC, which was called
00:11:29MSNBC before, and some call
00:11:32MSDNC for the Democratic National Committee, this is
00:11:36fake news. The Trump administration has already
00:11:39banned the Associated Press agency from the Oval Office and Air Force
00:11:42One, its only fault was refusing to
00:11:45rename the Gulf of Mexico, Gulf of America, as the
00:11:49real estate mogul wishes. The agency challenged this decision in
00:11:53court, the procedure
00:11:55is ongoing, this is a new record in France which will
00:11:59increase pressure on households, the price of diesel reaches an average of
00:12:022.41, which pushes French cross-border commuters to get their supplies from
00:12:06our neighbors, see this report in Belgium, Simon Coloane
00:12:10and Emmanuel Quinar,
00:12:13for several months, this is a very common scene at the Belgian
00:12:17border, many French motorists
00:12:20queue at the gas station because prices are
00:12:24cheaper. And that's not a misconception
00:12:271.89 and I think that at the
00:12:31station near my home, it must be at least
00:12:331.99, or even 2.10 depending on the gas
00:12:37stations, so the difference is still
00:12:40there, yeah. In France, the best plan is still to keep an eye on
00:12:44online price comparison sites, especially since on the French side,
00:12:48some stations are still competitive with the
00:12:51price capping with the fixed price it's
00:12:55more advantageous if we can use that word, but it's still
00:12:58catastrophic if the government has already
00:13:02promised to maintain targeted aid, the device
00:13:05dedicated to individuals could evolve from October 1st
00:13:08towards the most vulnerable French
00:13:11people. Continue to enjoy this beautiful day
00:13:15in France to discover the treasures your regions offer, your
00:13:18region, the heritage days continue near Dunkirk
00:13:21for example, there is this life-size replica of a 14th century navy
00:13:25ship on which enthusiasts have been working for 25 years. Jade
00:13:29Exposito for France
00:13:302.
00:13:33One might see the carcass of a sea monster, it
00:13:36is an ancient ogre of the seas, the Jambard,
00:13:40a mythical ship. For almost 25 years, craftsmen have been
00:13:44striving to reproduce it and highlight ancient
00:13:47techniques. The whole point of the site is especially to come and discover
00:13:50the construction of the ship with ancient trades, so forging for example.
00:13:55for shipbuilding carpentry, which are the two trades that are most exploited today and to have children who
00:13:59come with schools, to have people who come to visit and this educational
00:14:02transmission of ancient trades, in its construction,
00:14:06engravings like these serve as an example, they let us guess
00:14:09the scale of a boat and its gigantic hull of 57
00:14:13meters, dimensions that are a challenge for these volunteers.
00:14:17The smallest piece weighs about 600 kg, these are the pieces above us that are part of the skeleton,
00:14:21so uh today we have modern
00:14:24tools. It's true that there are big cranes, there are tractors, but you have to think about the time
00:14:28when they did it by hand,
00:14:31a boat worthy of the king who frequented Louis XIV
00:14:35himself, in a few years it will be the largest navigable wooden
00:14:38sailboat in the world, yet it will never set
00:14:42sail, a deliberate choice to allow everyone to contemplate
00:14:46contempler,
00:14:50news, you'll find the
00:14:52right away.
00:15:03Week, is artificial intelligence escaping
00:15:06us, after several missteps,
00:15:09the bosses of Anthropic, OpenAI or
00:15:13even X are calling for a slowdown or better regulation of
00:15:17AI development, is their fear justified, is it
00:15:20sincere, concerned about not being overtaken by their competitors,
00:15:24do these industrialists really fear their creation in full
00:15:28competition between China and the United States, what place for
00:15:31Europe and its regulation, well, we will talk about all these
00:15:34questions with my guests uh... Laurence de Viller,
00:15:38hello, hello, you are a professor of artificial intelligence and
00:15:41ethics at the Sorbonne, author of Savoir Vivre avec Lia published by
00:15:45Noël, you have been working for more than 30 years on human
00:15:49machine interactions, your work focuses notably on ethical issues, the risks of
00:15:52manipulation, responsibility and the regulation of
00:15:56AI systems. Julien Pilot remotely,
00:15:59hello, you are an economist, research professor at the Linsek
00:16:03business school, specialist in competitive strategy and
00:16:06innovation, notably in the field of tech and
00:16:10digital, and that's good. Édouard Filipas, hello, hello, you
00:16:13are co-founder and CEO of Jin, a communication agency and
00:16:17specialist in digital strategies, you
00:16:19advise Bruno Rettallot, Republican candidate for the presidential
00:16:23election in France on artificial intelligence issues.
00:16:27Simeon Campose, hello, hello, you are an AI
00:16:30entrepreneur and founder of Safer AI, that's how we say
00:16:33it, dedicated association dedicated to the security of
00:16:37artificial intelligence systems. In
00:16:41recent days, the leaders of Anthropic, OpenAI and X have therefore
00:16:44multiplied their warnings. We should slow down to avoid
00:16:48the worst, those who are leading the race would therefore like to set
00:16:51limits, the details from our colleagues at France
00:16:542. For years, they have been engaged in a frantic
00:16:58race to create the most powerful artificial intelligence,
00:17:01a super brain. Now, the bosses of large
00:17:05AI companies are sounding the alarm and... calling for an urgent
00:17:08slowdown. According to the founder of Anthropic and the Claude
00:17:11model, if nothing is done within 6 months to a year, AI
00:17:15could take control of the internet.
00:17:19This is the signal that we must slow down, we must advance with
00:17:22caution on this technology, and we must be sure that there are
00:17:26safeguards,
00:17:28that our ability to understand AI, to control
00:17:32it, grows at the same speed as the evolution of this
00:17:34technology.
00:17:38and rarely, the competition at Elon Musk, the boss
00:17:42of Open, who writes: "I agree with him, we need to slow down the
00:17:46pace. Committing to having independent experts to assess the risk is a
00:17:49very good idea. Assessing whether fiction can catch up with reality,
00:17:53if AI can become too complex for humans to still understand and
00:17:57control it. Recent incidents show that the risk could well be
00:18:01real. AI models have acted autonomously, have
00:18:04cheated, hacked a private site to respond. to a human
00:18:08request, some employees have resigned to sound
00:18:11the alarm. This does not seem to me to be different from Terminator or
00:18:14other science fiction films. AI can become intelligent enough to
00:18:18kill us all, and we won't be able to unplug it, stop it, because
00:18:22it self-copies to other computers. In
00:18:25France, the Parisians we met today are also worried. There will be
00:18:29so much automation, the
00:18:32models will evolve and consequently a risk
00:18:36for all of us. The problem that needs to be highlighted is the
00:18:39dependence on AI and then the loss, so to speak, of free
00:18:43will over our own thoughts. AI can
00:18:46also multiply the capacity for harm, Anthropic alerted, by
00:18:50publishing this incident report, they managed to prevent research into
00:18:54making a virus more virulent or even creating ballistic missiles,
00:18:57but until when? We must still be cautious about this concerted
00:19:01warning from AI giants, according to this French researcher.
00:19:04So when they believe, these big bosses want to tell us two things. On the one hand,
00:19:08we are the masters of the world and secondly, they
00:19:12want to tell us, it is up to us as big bosses to
00:19:15decide how
00:19:18machines. It would be up to the government to impose rules, but today states
00:19:22are far from agreeing, China intends to make models
00:19:26accessible to all and Donald Trump insisted this morning that he does
00:19:30not want American companies to slow down to maintain their advantage over
00:19:33Beijing.
00:19:38uh coming from groups engaged in fierce competition, what does
00:19:42that inspire you, uh that inspires
00:19:45me, one has to understand that it comes in a context of a
00:19:49turbulent summer where there have been two classes
00:19:52of very significant events that have occurred, the first is the
00:19:56incidents that were mentioned, namely that around 1200 agents
00:20:00from OpenAI uh from
00:20:03May to September
00:20:06have, while they had been instructed to develop
00:20:10uh to solve cybersecurity tasks, started to take
00:20:13control of OpenAI infrastructure thanks to their very
00:20:16advanced cybersecurity capabilities,
00:20:20including taking control of a part of an OpenAI
00:20:23data center and then hacking the Hugging
00:20:26Face startup, a startup that is still well defended uh to
00:20:30find the results of their of their of
00:20:34their test and their examination uh and... the second
00:20:38dynamic that accompanies
00:20:42these these incidents is the dynamic of
00:20:45self-improvement of AI systems, so that is to say that
00:20:49AIs are starting to help more and more in the process of
00:20:52creating the next AI models
00:20:55and so this dynamic increasingly accelerates the
00:20:59research and development process,
00:21:0330% of their research that is now done by their Claude
00:21:06model and that is seen day
00:21:10to day if you talk to an engineer
00:21:13today engineers code less and less or no longer code because
00:21:17it's AI agents that code and so that? machine that takes over completely
00:21:21laurence de viller what are these, are these really these incidents
00:21:25that worry today the American AI
00:21:29bosses
00:21:31they surely have other concerns but these concerns also
00:21:34exist in fact we have equipped
00:21:37ourselves with tools with much more autonomy than before, these are agentic
00:21:40AIs, I will give you an example so that everyone understands what the
00:21:43question is, we will not talk about 1200 agents but only one, I already have agentic
00:21:47agents to manage my emails often or to... do actions in my daily life
00:21:51so let's take the example of an Australian who, this kind of
00:21:54story happened, he had an agent who was supposed to book him a gym
00:21:58or a sports class, everyone probably
00:22:01knows this story but maybe not everyone anyway, what happened?
00:22:05the agent optimized the task that was given to him so he found the
00:22:08gym that needed to be booked, there was no more room so he removed one of the
00:22:12people who were already registered to take their place, he found
00:22:16a flaw in the system, it was possible to do it so for him it... fulfilled the
00:22:20task, he has no moral option or alignment with
00:22:23humans, so I think this example, even if it is simplistic, shows how
00:22:27much we must foresee everything, yet we cannot foresee
00:22:30everything with rules, the developers cannot foresee these
00:22:34misuses, let's say of and these existing flaws because
00:22:37each time it's different exactly, so in
00:22:39fact we can clearly see from this very simple example that
00:22:43we will never have a perfect alignment, we don't know how to
00:22:47do it, we cannot prevent them from lying, from cheating... it's not, well, let's
00:22:51not anthropomorphize, that would be good, in fact AIs don't lie
00:22:55or they don't do, they copy what we do, we are liars, we are
00:22:58intelligent people and we are people who have strategies, so these AIs
00:23:02learn autonomously to have human strategies, it doesn't
00:23:05mean they are intelligent either because we don't know what intelligence is already
00:23:09and so they copy what we know how to do and that's what's so
00:23:12powerful, the reason the reason why it is so difficult
00:23:16to align these AIs is that they are not really developed like code, they are...
00:23:20rather uh grown, they are raised in the sense that
00:23:23we define the process by which they are trained,
00:23:26that is, we collect enormous amounts of data
00:23:30on the internet about all human behaviors and then there's a learning
00:23:34algorithm that will allow these AI models
00:23:37to emerge a little, but it has a bit of a Kinder
00:23:41Surprise side where when a
00:23:44develops an entire model, we then discover its capabilities, we
00:23:47discover its propensities, we discover
00:23:50the way it behaves. There's another subject, however, because there are two different algorithms, there's
00:23:54the one you described, which is an algorithm that
00:23:57actually uses annotations made by humans, which is called
00:24:01supervised, so indeed in the end we can realize that well, we didn't have all the elements we
00:24:05needed, there are failures in it, but what is especially used today are
00:24:08reinforcement algorithms which actually require people,
00:24:12engineers to write rules, for example in
00:24:15my case of artificial sport, the rule was to do the task of finding a
00:24:19sports hall, but if it wasn't written, if it was already, if it's already
00:24:22full, don't do a bad social act,
00:24:26Julien Pilio, I think you want to react,
00:24:29we're listening to you, no, I'm perfectly aligned with Laurence's comments
00:24:33and we align the intelligences that are not artificial
00:24:37for once, but it is true that one of the
00:24:40big black boxes on the technical side, and I'm not a technician, I'm
00:24:44an economist, I try my best to try to understand what technology can cause
00:24:48in the markets, but it's really this
00:24:51recursive self-improvement of artificial intelligences that can
00:24:55today improve and learn to learn
00:24:58outside of extremely fine supervision from
00:25:02humans, and it's true that when we give them a significant degree of freedom,
00:25:06we can sometimes be surprised, as
00:25:09Laurence's example perfectly demonstrates, by their
00:25:12ability to act outside of a
00:25:15framework that was not thought of from the start and for which we didn't necessarily think of
00:25:19safeguards. So, and that's why today we're really trying to think about
00:25:23the regulation of these
00:25:26new tools that are artificial intelligences
00:25:30to try to better understand what is being done
00:25:34upstream in terms of coding and the real capabilities we
00:25:37give them, and then what can be produced
00:25:40ex-post that can be favorable economically or, on the contrary,
00:25:44counterproductive, but also on other more moral, more
00:25:47ethical dimensions, more aligned with the fundamental values that make
00:25:51us a society, and that's why we're indeed questioning regulations that are
00:25:54adapted.
00:25:55further in the show, go ahead
00:26:00quickly. techno, if you
00:26:03please, it's the story of this swarm of agents who
00:26:07interact together, robotic agents, it's the 90s,
00:26:10but it's humans who give them tasks and ask them to
00:26:14collaborate, here they self-decide to
00:26:17collaborate together and therefore aligning several agents
00:26:21is even more difficult, knowing that when I multiply agents to do a
00:26:24task, I have a better chance of getting my task to work,
00:26:27each one is a black box but it has learned different things and
00:26:31the whole. Finally, I can play to win, Edouard Filias, have these incidents
00:26:35caused a, would you say, a real
00:26:38shock wave in Silicon Valley or are we witnessing a dramatization
00:26:42of the danger? Well, I think these
00:26:45discussions about technology are off-topic
00:26:49because in reality the subject is not whether
00:26:52it is dangerous or not, it's how this new
00:26:55oligopoly formed by these American companies erects protectionist
00:26:58barriers in the American market
00:27:03market. So they are surfing on a fear, then it's not only the people, we have seen certain
00:27:07employees also resign.
00:27:11Jacobson in this case, it's a communication operation of the Democratic
00:27:14party. The communication he made on his
00:27:18Twitter account, which had a few followers, was relayed worldwide because it was
00:27:21automatically picked up by all the Democratic elected officials. So in fact, it's Bernie
00:27:25Sanders and but maybe he's in good faith. No, but yes, he is undoubtedly in good
00:27:29faith, what I'm saying is simply.
00:27:32political communication, it's not a researcher who suddenly
00:27:36runs in his
00:27:39the, the major
00:27:43of dollars raised, is to find profitability for their investment and to
00:27:46protect themselves against AI,
00:27:50especially Chinese AI, which threatens their turf. So they
00:27:54surf on what is called a techno-shock, that is, a
00:27:58gulf between what people understand about technology and the use
00:28:01they make of it and the utility they derive from it, and today everyone
00:28:05is afraid because finally we are facing a technology that dries us up
00:28:08by its potential, it plays on this fear by explaining to us
00:28:12through eschatological scenarios that we are heading towards the end of the world, that there are enormous risks, that it will
00:28:16be necessary to control them and that they will surely be there to do it by agreeing,
00:28:20it's a farce, the reality is economic, it's a
00:28:23power struggle, go ahead and react, well I agree with you, it's rhetoric, meaning we
00:28:27don't care about reality and these agents, these digital
00:28:30giants have strategies. together to go
00:28:34public, etc., but that doesn't mean that I, as a researcher, can't
00:28:38say that there's no risk and that we shouldn't look at technology, if we don't open up
00:28:41technology, we're going to crash, we'll be made to believe anything, I think
00:28:45that today the political debate must also be rooted in
00:28:48the idea that citizens must understand, and if I give simple examples to
00:28:51explain to illustrate
00:28:54complex cases, it's with the idea that we should all do that if we want to reach a level a
00:28:58little less foolish of immediate fear, an important element
00:29:02to... enters into this call for slowing down, it's that we're talking about
00:29:05stopping, slowing down a car that's going at 300 km/h, it's not that
00:29:09we're going to stop all technological development, it's braking,
00:29:12exactly, and the reason for that is what my colleague mentioned,
00:29:15which is the recursive improvement that makes
00:29:19us currently in an almost vertical period of technology
00:29:22where 2 weeks after the latest OpenAI model,
00:29:25it's already obsolete and there are already models that solve
00:29:29what the pinnacles of human experts
00:29:32in mathematics have solved, namely a millennium problem. Julien Pilot,
00:29:36are these alarms completely
00:29:39disinterested? Do they call for regulation? Explain to us how you
00:29:42perceive these cries of alarm from the digital
00:29:45giants.
00:29:47They are very difficult to interpret when you are not inside the machine and you
00:29:51don't have access to the frontier laboratories on
00:29:54which the latest versions of the most powerful models are
00:29:57tested, so possibly are they in
00:30:01good faith or feeding a kind of
00:30:05fear marketing, and instead of all that, well, it's up to us somehow to be vigilant. Well, this
00:30:08fear marketing, as has been said previously, is something that
00:30:12can be favorable at a given point in time,
00:30:15which is precisely the one we are in for generative artificial
00:30:19intelligence markets, that is, when actors emerge from what we
00:30:23call a market emergence phase to enter a growth phase where it is a matter
00:30:27of securing the massive investments that have been made in this
00:30:30sector so that they can effectively appear sustainably as
00:30:34actors who are able to dominate the competition and eliminate the
00:30:37others, so very often we see actors
00:30:40in these markets calling for more regulation and very often we have to call for
00:30:44fear marketing by saying somehow regulate me because
00:30:48if you don't regulate me, we're heading for
00:30:51big catastrophes and obviously when they take this
00:30:54approach with the regulator, they try to incite the
00:30:57regulator to put in place...