Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:01abuses spanning seven decades. The
00:00:03restorative bodies created by
00:00:06of women and the episcopate after the publication of this report, as well as the victim
00:00:09collectives, are already calling it a missed opportunity. They would
00:00:13have preferred a full day of collective discussion. The
00:00:16Catholic authorities have implemented protection measures and financial
00:00:20reparations, but the victims continue to demand
00:00:23accountability and more
00:00:30Hadji, Father François Euvé, we
00:00:33heard these testimonies, the expectation around the acts and
00:00:37some already consider it a missed opportunity to meet these
00:00:40people only in Lourdes, while the scale and number of these
00:00:43victims still exceed 300,000 people. Is it
00:00:47a missed opportunity from your point of view? We'll see, let's wait
00:00:50and see what happens first before making a judgment. So indeed, one might say
00:00:54perhaps, perhaps yes, it would have been preferable to
00:00:58meet with associations that, like
00:01:01death. Thank you, and Christ's Constance, were really at the starting point of the awareness. If it hadn't been for the role of these
00:01:05associations, by the way, Pope Leo, in Magnifica o
00:01:08Manitas, if I recall correctly, makes a
00:01:11positive remark in favor of all
00:01:15whistleblowers, well, that's not the word, but of those who, outside of
00:01:21dimension of the church, allowed for awareness. So, that's what needs to be welcomed, not just because of
00:01:24victims, well, I don't know which ones will be received,
00:01:27but victims in front of a pope or in front of a
00:01:31disproportion, it's not
00:01:34easy for them, so it shouldn't be just a sort of
00:01:38beautiful spiritual encounters and
00:01:42so on with beautiful words, but ultimately associations, of course,
00:01:46they are more incisive, they have more
00:01:49strength. Well, it's perhaps a shame that it didn't go through
00:01:53associations, some of which are finally making proposals,
00:01:57making proposals. We're going to look perhaps. part of
00:02:00this platform, but there you go, which proposes to open the archives
00:02:04precisely related to these cases of violence,
00:02:08which also proposes to create memorial sites dedicated to all
00:02:10victims in accessible places in dioceses, in St.
00:02:14Peter's Square in Rome, to give a clear mandate also to your bishops around the world to
00:02:18undertake in their dioceses in-depth actions on past and
00:02:21present crimes. There are proposals being made that only need to be
00:02:25applied. So things have already been done, there have already been
00:02:29symbolic elements.
00:02:30uh, Italians,
00:02:37Unfortunately, it's not everywhere either, well, that's something to see, obviously each bishop is a bit independent,
00:02:41so that's sometimes the limit of the thing,
00:02:44but what I want to say is also that it should
00:02:48lead to a fundamental reflection. That is to say, ultimately, this clerical functioning
00:02:51does not disappear completely. So this
00:02:54hold, because the sacralization of the figure of the
00:02:58priest, well, there are elements on a more
00:03:02theoretical level, if you will, that in my opinion deserve to be
00:03:05taken into consideration so as not to simply say, "Well, they made a few
00:03:09symbolic gestures, it's good, they gave money, and that's it, we're
00:03:12done." That seems a bit too short. I'm
00:03:16not a specialist in the question, I haven't really, or perhaps not sufficiently,
00:03:19studied these files, but as the religious man you are,
00:03:23also in your heart of hearts, you say that enough has been
00:03:27done, that there is still a long way to go today. We are ready
00:03:30to hear the words of these victims and no longer silence them. You spoke earlier
00:03:34of silence, of secrets, of fear that we will discover in
00:03:3810 years, in 20 years, because it has actually emerged in the
00:03:43always at the United States, in Ireland, in France, in countries like Germany,
00:03:46there are reports, things are breaking out, why?
00:03:50Because people are starting to understand that this
00:03:54movement is like #MeToo, ultimately, a movement of
00:03:57transparency that means people dare to speak out. There are associations
00:04:02Uh, they debate in the United States, Boston, the Boston Globe, which had
00:04:04done the work. The press's role was
00:04:08fundamental in the emergence of the scandal in the
00:04:11United States, and there's a
00:04:15film that tells that story very well,
00:04:17America. However, the future of and it's not
00:04:19the same in Africa, people don't dare
00:04:23to denounce the social power
00:04:26of a bishop, of a priest in society. What does
00:04:30a little boy or girl who would tell his
00:04:34mom, this happened,
00:04:38evolution of societies and that his mom would probably say, "Be quiet, be quiet, nothing happened." We're going to turn a blind eye for another 10
00:04:43the church. I think it's long. That's what years, 20 years, and I'm afraid that we will take missionaries
00:04:47often too, more and more, perhaps these
00:04:50scandals will break out for another 50 years
00:04:54elsewhere than here,
00:04:57steps of where the victims are stronger, the victims' associations and where the press also does its job
00:05:01and where there are initiatives like the ones
00:05:04churches are capable of taking, like the report. I wanted to
00:05:07briefly come back to the commission Sauvé, which I had the opportunity to meet
00:05:11several times. Jean-Marc Sauvé and what he told me, what
00:05:15struck him and his commission the most, is what the
00:05:18victims said. That is to say, they are not just
00:05:21victims, they are people who have experienced something
00:05:25and who have things to say that only they can say, but we must
00:05:29create the conditions for them to say it,
00:05:32give them access to speech, and that was all the work, one
00:05:36of the strong points of the commission, apart from the figures and
00:05:39so on, to give victims a voice. Alice Casagrande,
00:05:43who is one of the members of the commission, speaks of the knowledge of victims, and that is something
00:05:47that we still have a long way to go,
00:05:51to truly listen to them, not
00:05:53just, I would say, quickly listen to their
00:05:57story, but how they experienced it, what they
00:06:00experienced spiritually as well. There is a strong message to
00:06:04hear that is difficult to hear because it calls into
00:06:07question a mode of functioning in the church that needs to be questioned,
00:06:10and an important challenge is to re-establish
00:06:14a safe church, a safe home for all. Yes, so
00:06:18the zero risk does not exist, but to re-establish
00:06:21a relationship of trust. You made the connection earlier between these young Catholics who no longer dared to claim
00:06:25themselves as such because there was a whole image behind it.
00:06:29This is also a challenge for the church that we could come back to.
00:06:33I'm coming back to the present moment, this present moment that you
00:06:36are still following on our channels on France 24, this mass that is
00:06:40still continuing on Place de la Concorde.
00:06:49As we talked about communion earlier, this is currently the moment of communion, absolutely, and this is also what a rather complicated organization will be for us, but it works in any case, apparently. We were talking earlier about discipline, and it's also perhaps, it must be said, thanks to the mobilization of all these volunteers that we see mobilizing
00:06:52mais qui fonctionne en tout cas manifestement on parlait tout à l'heure de de de
00:06:56discipline et c'est aussi peut-être il faut le dire grâce à la mobilisation de tous ces ces
00:06:59with this "Team Leon
00:07:03XIV" t-shirt, Florence Gaillard. We are therefore in the middle of
00:07:07communion.
00:07:10Absolutely, the priests who were just behind me, who were all in
00:07:14white, stood up as one man.
00:07:17That's why you see empty chairs behind me, these are the priests who were sitting
00:07:21behind, but who all stood up, who knew where they were going and they
00:07:24are at different points of the Place de la Concorde and the Avenue des
00:07:28Champs-Élysées, the priests, the seminarians, the deacons
00:07:31who distribute communion to the 60,000,
00:07:3570,000, perhaps 1 million faithful who are spread from the Place de la
00:07:39Concorde up to the Arc de Triomphe, perhaps to the
00:07:42Avenue de la Grande Armée as well. Earlier you had interviewed a seminarian,
00:07:46Mary Shuster interviewed a seminarian who was participating in this
00:07:49communion, and you just spoke of this army of
00:07:53volunteers, nearly 15,000 volunteers, so
00:07:56young and old, who as soon as they knew there was a papal visit
00:08:00mobilized, signed up and said, "We will be there."
00:08:04We found them this morning at 8 am, they were
00:08:08there like one man, even though they were already at the vigil at the
00:08:12Stade de France last night, they were there, making
00:08:15sure everything went very well, and you are right, everything is happening in
00:08:19calm, joy, good humor, and currently in
00:08:23contemplation, and we must really tip our hats to them because
00:08:26frankly, they are doing an incredible job, yeah, and we saw them
00:08:30precisely thanks to their t-shirts, hence
00:08:33also the fact that we can highlight their presence. I
00:08:37will pause for a moment on this moment of communion. Once again, I am thinking of
00:08:40you and the viewers who are following
00:08:42this moment that we are covering as, first of all, a historic
00:08:46moment that is taking place right now in our country. What exactly is this
00:08:50moment of communion, just as we explained yesterday in a little more detail what
00:08:54vespers are? Florence, perhaps a few words or Father
00:08:57François Evet, but it is also important to clearly define what is
00:09:01happening, once again for all those who do not necessarily have this Catholic
00:09:04culture.
00:09:07So, I'm going to let the priest talk about communion,
00:09:11since that's more a mission of
00:09:14consecrated men in holy orders. I am but a
00:09:18humble woman, Nabia, as you know. Now, from
00:09:22what I understand, it's the moment when, from the
00:09:25moment the host is consecrated by the priest or by the Pope, there is
00:09:29transubstantiation, meaning Catholics believe
00:09:32that this piece of host, this piece of bread, becomes the
00:09:36body of Christ and the consecrated wine becomes the blood of Christ. That is why
00:09:40it must be consumed immediately because it must
00:09:44not linger since it is the body of Christ. So when the
00:09:47communion is finished, if there is any left, the
00:09:51host is returned to the tabernacle, which is kind of
00:09:54a sacred antechamber that contains the
00:10:18that communion is going very well. Stay with us, we're going to give the floor back to Father François about
00:10:22this moment of communion, just to better understand it. I'll come back to you, Florence,
00:10:25because you have precisely dedicated a report to this question
00:10:31the ordination of women, and your perspective interests us here on set, what
00:10:35you have observed and retained about communion.
00:10:38First of all, what Florence Gaillard just said, yes, so
00:10:42very, very quickly, especially for those outside the
00:10:45Christian and Catholic tradition in particular, well, to avoid
00:10:49all magical stuff and so on, what's important is that it
00:10:52goes back, if you will, to the Last Supper of
00:10:55Jesus who shared the bread, it's the tradition in Jewish meals who
00:10:59shared the bread, and in this sharing of bread he said,
00:11:03"This is my body." It's not so much the
00:11:06object as such that matters, but the fact that it is precisely
00:11:10shared. It's the symbol of the total gift of his
00:11:13life that is expressed by this sharing. And so,
00:11:17everyone, I mean, the participants
00:11:20take this bread which therefore has acquired
00:11:24a value. It's not simply
00:11:27ordinary bread, it's not mundane bread, it has acquired precisely through the
00:11:30symbolic meaning in the strong sense of the word, a
00:11:34gesture of total gift, of sharing, of total self-giving,
00:11:38and communion is a way of manifesting
00:11:41precisely this communion with Christ. We unite
00:11:44ourselves by sharing the life of Christ, the
00:11:48very life of Christ. Can everyone participate or are there certain
00:11:51conditions, having gone through certain
00:11:55things? No, well, you have to be Catholic, you have to
00:11:58be, you have to be, you have to not be divorced
00:12:01and remarried, a lot of things. Ah, so there are still certain
00:12:04conditions.
00:12:07Conditions, that's it. So more or less relaxed depending on the interpreter, but
00:12:11finally, I would say, without getting into the legalism of
00:12:14things, obviously for it to make
00:12:17sense, you have to adhere to the deep
00:12:21message. Otherwise, obviously, it has no
00:12:24value. It's, well, you have to be in communion with
00:12:27the church, and precisely, we don't know, we don't know if
00:12:31the political figures in the tribune have
00:12:35received or not, have communed or not. First of all,
00:12:38some of them and in what
00:12:40capacity?
00:12:44Does the situation of each simply authorize them or not to
00:12:47receive? That's a good, that's a good
00:12:51question. We'll ask her about that, Florence, are you still with us?
00:12:57So, two questions. I'm listening. There was
00:13:01no, this question and this eminently important question also regarding the
00:13:04place of women. We had discussed it earlier on set here with
00:13:07Constance and then Father
00:13:10François, I know you have dedicated a report
00:13:14to it, and the question obviously continues to be
00:13:17debated, the place of these women in the Church who would also like to be ordained, who could
00:13:21who would like to have access to the priesthood.
00:13:26I think it's very good that we're talking about it on this set because France 24 is a
00:13:30public service channel and it's a very important debate that
00:13:34some try to avoid, but I think
00:13:38that given the crisis of vocations within the Church,
00:13:41especially in Europe and France, it's a subject that will be less and less
00:13:44avoidable. Why? Because two-thirds of Catholic assemblies are made
00:13:48up of women today. The catechumenate phenomenon, we said it,
00:13:52it's a phenomenon that affects 18-30 year olds. 5 years and
00:13:55the majority once again is female. So there's this
00:13:59kind of paradox that means we have churches full of
00:14:03women, well, at least with 2/3 women and
00:14:08altar and on the stage only men.
00:14:10hommes,
00:14:13But it's not easy for the Pope, it's not easy for those who are
00:14:16responsible because they are on a tightrope, that is to say, they know
00:14:20that the subject is important, they know that in Europe, we
00:14:24are pushing for a feminization of the clergy, notably in
00:14:27Germany, notably also
00:14:31in Great Britain, but as you said on set, we are digging in our
00:14:35heels in the southern hemisphere, meaning in Africa and
00:14:38in Asia and South
00:14:42the Church, as they say, is playing out in the southern
00:14:45hemisphere, so it's not easy for the current
00:14:49authorities. But why, why, Florence, what is the main
00:14:52official argument that
00:15:01serves the church just like men? Is there a reason that is invoked? Absolutely, in the report,
00:15:04I had indeed interviewed two categories of
00:15:08women: some women who claim to already be Roman Catholic
00:15:12priests. There are associations of Roman Catholic women
00:15:15priests; they are obviously not recognized by the church currently. And I had
00:15:19also interviewed the Women's Ordination
00:15:22Conference, which is an American association that has existed since
00:15:261975 and is very active and mobilizes,
00:15:29notably with the Vatican in Rome, to make the voices of women
00:15:33who wish to be ordained heard. It
00:15:35must be said because these are courageous women who regularly go to
00:15:39Rome and try to speak to the Pope and to the
00:15:42Catholic Church authorities, but for now they are not very well known
00:15:46and they are not heard.
00:15:49Now, what I want to say is that what is opposed to women is
00:15:52that Christ was honored by 12 apostles, the 12
00:15:56apostles who recalled the 12 tribes of Israel in the Old Testament, and that these 12
00:16:00apostles were men, and therefore,
00:16:03priests cannot be women. To which feminists
00:16:08reply, but there were women who followed Christ, the
00:16:11proof is Mary Magdalene. Mary Magdalene who
00:16:14followed Christ to the foot of the cross, unlike the 12
00:16:18apostles, and especially Mary Magdalene, the first to
00:16:21whom the resurrected Christ appeared, and that's why
00:16:25today feminists claim more than the Virgin, they claim
00:16:28this famous Mary Magdalene, Mary of Magdala, who was
00:16:31there throughout the process and especially during the most important stages of
00:16:35Christ's life and Christ's
00:16:39resurrection. Thank you very much,
00:16:42Florence. Father François, what Florence just said, the church of tomorrow will be made with
00:16:46women, it will have to be made with women, it's a matter of time, I think. I think
00:16:49that, well, the Protestant world has already been for some
00:16:53decades, well, it's the status of the
00:16:56pastor, sorry, the Protestant pastor is not the same as that of the Catholic
00:16:59priest. There's a sacred side, a sacralization of the
00:17:03Catholic priest, unlike among Protestants. So
00:17:06they ordain female pastors. The Anglicans, a sort of
00:17:10intermediate position, also for a little less time, have
00:17:13priests and even bishops
00:17:17who are women. So
00:17:20indeed, on the Protestant side or
00:17:24Anglican side, we find the situation. Now, if we take
00:17:27comparisons elsewhere, that is to say, in Islam or in
00:17:30Judaism, female imams are not very common,
00:17:34yes, female rabbis are not very common either.
00:17:38So the cultural factor must
00:17:41also be taken into account. Then there are the theological reasons, indeed, what
00:17:45Florence mentioned is quite classic. Well, we can also evoke
00:17:49what Constance said earlier, that the church is a woman. We can bring
00:17:53up many elements. Well, on this
00:17:57point, perhaps everything is open to discussion. The fact that obviously the
00:18:01apostles were men is a historical fact and it's a cultural fact too. In the
00:18:05situation of Israel at the time, it's hard to imagine
00:18:08a completely mixed assembly following Christ
00:18:12with parity. On the other hand, it's true, we find figures like Mary Magdalene who are
00:18:16extremely interesting and who should give us pause for thought.
00:18:19So the debate is open, I mean, the
00:18:23theological debate is open, but when we see that the simple
00:18:26question of the female diaconate was
00:18:30withdrawn from the work of the Synod on Synodality
00:18:34desired by Pope Francis, begun and continued by
00:18:37Pope Leo, we say, "Well, who had it withdrawn? Are there clashing
00:18:41currents?" Well, yes, of course, yes, that's for sure. The second
00:18:45session of the synod saw
00:18:48this theme withdrawn, so that means what it means.
00:18:52It's not for now, we're not ready. It's going to
00:18:55hit a wall, just like the exception to priestly
00:18:59celibacy that Pope Francis wanted
00:19:02to initiate for the Amazon region because there's a shortage of
00:19:05priests in that very large region. It didn't happen and it was
00:19:09a terrible climate at that time.
00:19:12Same thing with what explanation behind it, what argument? Well,
00:19:15the fear of schism, quite simply, on the one hand, there you go,
00:19:19the enemies of tradition
00:19:22who claim that doctrine must remain
00:19:26unchanged, that the teaching of the church is always the same, that it has to be
00:19:30that way because it was that way. Well, these people still
00:19:34have influence because the argument is strong, so it's very
00:19:37difficult to say, "No, well, as the new Pope,
00:19:41I'm going in another direction."
00:19:44And Francis makes trial balloons. Once again, I think it's
00:19:48useful. I think the church moves in small steps, ultimately, so
00:19:51it has like that, just as he has also moved
00:19:55things forward on homosexuality with that
00:19:59little phrase, "Who am I to judge?" But at the same
00:20:02time, the doctrine hasn't changed, the teaching is the same, but people
00:20:06live less badly their
00:20:08situation. But that's not enough, the texts
00:20:12should be in tune with the
00:20:15they reconcile, but it's a long process on the scale of
00:20:21is lacking, that's what could be lacking today for the church when we talk
00:20:24about this recomposition of this church that sees far fewer
00:20:28faithful in its fold. I'm leaving aside the catechumens, these adults who turn
00:20:32to baptism as adults, but isn't it precisely if there needed
00:20:35to be many more faithful in the church's fold, wouldn't
00:20:39the church benefit from evolving? I ask you the question, we will address
00:20:43it to Florence Gaillard in a moment. Yes, well, for me it's
00:20:46not the priority, it's not necessarily a question of
00:20:50numbers. Of course, it's nice when there are many, I'm not going to say the
00:20:53opposite, but for me what's important is what the church can bring
00:20:57to the common discussion of society. If it's only to live to make the community
00:21:00bigger, we're very well among ourselves, it's not interesting. If it's to
00:21:04say, "Well, what can we say to the current world and how can
00:21:08we maintain, as the Pope says in his homily, how can we
00:21:11bear witness to a hope, a peace, a reconciliation?" That's what's
00:21:15important, and if there are few of us, it's not the... Otherwise,
00:21:19the Catholic Church could also have said in Africa to be more numerous, we allow
00:21:23polygamy, there you go, and we will have more Catholics because
00:21:27it pleases African societies more, but no, it doesn't work like
00:21:30that, and fortunately they still don't always go in the
00:21:34direction of the desires of the West because that's true
00:21:37too, but the center of gravity of Catholicism is in any case shifting, we will come back to that, and that's
00:21:41perhaps a component to keep in mind for the church of tomorrow, what it will look like, that's the question I'll ask you
00:21:44in a moment. This mass will
00:21:48finish, I think, soon, Florence, are
00:21:51you still at the Place de la Concorde? There are
00:21:55still a few minutes left,
00:22:05thanking the Pope for his visit, this visit
00:22:08placed under the sign of Notre-Dame. The statue of
00:22:12Notre-Dame is on the stage, not too far from Pope Leo, I was going to say the
00:22:15Pope Francis, it's Pope Leo
00:22:18XIV. The crowd thanks the Pope for
00:22:22coming as it's time for goodbyes, since afterwards the Pope will
00:22:25go directly to Lourdes, he will be in prayer tonight in Lourdes.
00:22:29So, we hear, we listen to the last words, the farewell
00:22:33words of Archbishop Laurent Ulrich of Paris.
00:22:36Florence, from where you are, did you also spot—this is a
00:22:40question we asked earlier—did you spot any French political figures?
00:22:44We said that the President of the Republic was not taking part
00:22:47in this mass, his wife Brigitte Macron is here, Prime Minister
00:22:51Sébastien Lecornu, also a announced personality. Have you seen
00:22:55other personalities? Do we also know if they took part in this
00:22:58communion? Did they also
00:23:00commune?
00:23:25And I will answer you very honestly, Nabia, I'm not at all, I'm with the
00:23:29youth and the priests, I'm not with the political
00:23:32class, so I cannot
00:23:39find out at some point, anyway, we know that several
00:23:43personalities from the French political class and then candidates for the
00:23:47supreme magistracy have announced their
00:23:50presence for this mass at Place de la Concorde. Now,
00:23:54Nabia, Nabia, Nabia, excuse me, now what's very
00:23:58interesting is that generally the—can you hear me? I
00:24:02hear you. Generally, the candidates hide
00:24:04their,
00:24:07hide their religion, their confession, and then all of a sudden
00:24:10it's very surprising, there are candidates who reveal
00:24:14themselves to be Catholic, meaning that in my opinion, as they understood there was a wave to
00:24:17surf until the presidential election. All of a
00:24:21sudden, all these people who were secular
00:24:25who didn't touch religion and who above all hid their
00:24:29affiliation, all of a sudden we discover that they are Catholic or in any case "cat
00:24:32friendly," if you'll allow the expression, it's quite astonishing, it's quite
00:24:36astonishing. It raises questions a few months before the presidential election. That's the meaning
00:24:40of your point.
00:24:44Yes, yes, absolutely. That is,
00:24:47some claim to be there are several
00:24:59electorates saying, "Oh, but religion, why not?" And anyway, I'm at the Pope's mass,
00:25:02we can see that it's a subject that is both divisive
00:25:06and that we can still try to exploit in a certain
00:25:09way, with all these questions around secularism,
00:25:13indeed, here in France, the very holding of this
00:25:16mass posed questions because it is a moment of
00:25:20prayer, a moment of communion, a moment of religious prayer in
00:25:24the middle of the street here in
00:25:26the capital.
00:25:30Absolutely, you see, we're standing up, it's the end, it's the end
00:25:33of this mass, the applause and flags are back,
00:25:37the banners are back, I think
00:25:39the Pope behind me is about to leave the
00:25:43chair, and will go to kiss the altar and will descend the
00:26:27These are the last minutes of this mass, that's right, yes, it's a Latin
00:26:30hymn to the Virgin that
00:26:48do we know then if the Sovereign Pontiff will once again
00:26:52meet the faithful, those who are perhaps in the front row, or is he supposed
00:26:56to leave quickly
00:26:59this platform, this Place de la Concorde, because he has his
00:27:03agenda that awaits him, he must fly to Lourdes in a little over an
00:27:07hour now. Yes, and as he did upon arriving, which was
00:27:10planned but he took his time to do it, it would be a
00:27:14bit redundant, I think the moment happened,
00:27:18the ceremonial was well conducted, in its full
00:27:23the descent there of this immense avenue in
00:27:26the Popemobile, I don't see him doing that again to finish
00:27:30hurriedly because...
00:27:42prochaine étape donc ce sera lourde cela fait 20 ans je
00:27:46crois dernière visite d'un souverain
00:27:49pontif à lourd 18 ans 18 ans oui oui c'est
00:27:52ça oui benois 16 c'est le benoix 16 beno 16 à paris est lourde
00:27:56are perhaps already projecting ourselves towards the next stage, so it will be
00:27:59Lourdes. It's been 20 years, I
00:28:03believe, since the last visit of a Sovereign
00:28:07Pontiff to Lourdes. 18 years, 18 years, yes, yes, that's
00:28:10right. Benedict XVI, it's Benedict XVI. Benedict XVI in Paris and Lourdes.
00:28:14Yes, it's also a highlight of this visit, of this visit that
00:28:32many, many Indians also come, it's very
00:28:34spectacular, the religious dimension. Pardon, François, I still think of
00:28:37the viewers who don't necessarily have the references, who are watching us from abroad,
00:28:41the revelation. So, indeed,
00:28:44there you go, that's it, so Lourdes is a place of apparition
00:28:48of the Virgin Mary to a young
00:28:52peasant, very very simple, very
00:28:55modestly, the most modest of the village of
00:28:59Lourdes who had this apparition of Mary, and who for her was
00:29:02obviously a source of very strong
00:29:06consolation and so on. And
00:29:10with a spring of water that
00:29:13gushes out, and so Mary says to this
00:29:17Bernadette, so this Bernadette Soubirous, to Bernadette that it will be a place where
00:29:20people will come, the sick in particular,
00:29:24in fact, so she went and told her priest, more or less, well, he finally
00:29:27listened to her, well, and then,
00:29:31in fact, the crowds started
00:29:34to arrive, people started to arrive from the region and then from further afield and so on, and then it
00:29:38snowballed, and then, in fact, it came from
00:29:41everywhere, and since then, well, that was in 1870, I think,
00:29:45uh, it hasn't stopped, it's a center of pilgrimage, a place
00:29:48of pilgrimage. A pilgrimage that doesn't empty all
00:29:52year round, and again, it's very, the popular side is very, very
00:29:55striking, and also the place of suffering people, the
00:29:59sick, there you go. And the Pope will repeat these gestures
00:30:04the possibility that it's a miracle or simply a healing
00:30:08that science can explain. So it's very serious,
00:30:11it has assemblies, procedures
00:30:13in which even the devil's advocate is
00:30:17called, it comes from there, to say, "No, not at all, it's not a miracle,
00:30:21it's a healing that can be explained," but no, etc. Then finally, if
00:30:25yes, there you go, if he has the number of miracles, one, we
00:30:29can become blessed, two, we become a saint, there you go,
00:30:33all this "cursus honorum" in the path to sainthood, and it's the same thing
00:30:36for Robert Schuman in Metz, whose
00:30:40cause for beatification is being investigated by the same
00:30:44ministry of the Roman Curia, and it's fascinating. He is already
00:30:48venerable, but unlike
00:30:51Bernadette Soubirous, he hasn't produced
00:30:54a miracle through his intercession, so that's why he's not
00:30:57yet beatified, but he's waiting.