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00:00:18Good
00:00:18in in morning and welcome to the Camilla Tomon Show on GB News inflation up borrowing
00:00:22a cost soaring and the prospect of yet more tax rises looming
00:00:26over the country
00:00:27of as the government wrestles with
00:00:28of Britain's
00:00:28in increasingly precarious five. finances, are any of our
00:00:32of political parties being
00:00:33of honest about the choices
00:00:35of ahead? I'll
00:00:38of be speaking to the minister for women and equalities, Bridget Philipson, labor has created a new government class unit, promising to put
00:00:42white working classes at the heart of its
00:00:45of
00:00:45of of equalities agenda. Just how do you define who is working class in Modern Britain
00:00:49though, and is this serious policy or just populism by another
00:00:52name? From the conservatives, shadow chief secretary to the treasury Richard
00:00:56Fuller joins me with borrowing cost soaring and another. difficult
00:01:00of budget ahead, what would the
00:01:05a of conservatives actually do differently, and does he accept some responsibility for the economic legacy of Liz
00:01:08Trust? Liberal Democrat cabinet
00:01:10of office spokes woman, I should say, Lisa Smart joins me.
00:01:1342% of voters asked to described
00:01:16of davy of said don't know or who, with the greens to their left
00:01:20in and the conservatives on the right, what exactly is the point
00:01:23of the liberal democrats and economist Gerard
00:01:26in Lions will be here as
00:01:27me inflation of rises to
00:01:28of 3.1%, long-term borrowing costs hit levels not
00:01:32seen since the late 90s. how serious is Britain's debt problem and
00:01:36can the chancellor
00:01:37in possibly tax his way out of it? all that and much, much more to
00:01:41come over the next
00:01:42of 90 minutes, so do not
00:01:43of even think of going
00:01:46of anywhere.
00:01:50of of of of in of
00:01:56we are going
00:02:00of of to have our Sunday newspaper review in of of just moment with Nicholas of Owen, of of but... for that, the daily mail is Robert Hardman, author
00:02:02of of the new biography, Elizabeth II in private, in public, joins me now to
00:02:06dissect Earl Spencer's latest interview with the BBC, Robert,
00:02:10you at the mail, what are you doing, you should all be sent to the tower, we've now
00:02:14got earl Spencer accusing the king of gaslighting him, which as far as I can
00:02:17tell is Jen
00:02:19of Zeds speak for disagreement, who is telling
00:02:23the truth here, Robert
00:02:25of Hardman, of uh, well
00:02:26of I think everyone feels they're telling their truths, it's he said, he said,
00:02:30uh and it's 29 years old and here we are um
00:02:34debating um
00:02:35a sixty something man versus a 77-year-old
00:02:38king over
00:02:40of late night telephone call in possibly the most in fact
00:02:44certainly the
00:02:45of most stressful sleepless tense
00:02:48period
00:02:53a in um of of of uh modern post war royal history so yes you know there is background to this um Earl
00:02:56of Spencer of essentially is claiming that the
00:02:59in in the course of a conversation
00:03:00me um, prince Charles as he then
00:03:03of was, um, was quotes, giddily
00:03:08of of elated, or seemed giddily in elated, because his
00:03:11of of ex-wife had died, which is terrible thing to say, and needless to say, the palace is very
00:03:15much disputes this, and and took the rare step of
00:03:19issuing a statement
00:03:21of back on
00:03:22of Wednesday, it hasn't added to it since, but
00:03:25of saying, fraternal grief can cloud
00:03:27of memories, which is a polite way of saying recollections may vary. 'ie, we
00:03:31simply don't
00:03:32of buy this version of events,
00:03:34a and uh, Lord Spencer is saying, well, um,
00:03:38I, I, I wrote what I remember, so um,
00:03:40you know, we are where we are, all I can say, and I'm sure you, you, I don't want your
00:03:44of views are, Camilla, but you know the king, well, you and I have followed him all over the
00:03:48world,
00:03:49of I've been following him, writing about him, interviewing, I
00:03:51of made programs with him, I've written books
00:03:53of about of him, I've spoken to
00:03:54of those nearest and
00:03:55in dearest to him, um, I, I
00:03:57of feel I have the measure
00:03:58of the man and the picture that is paint'. by Lord Spencer simply does not
00:04:01accord with the the the my um
00:04:05experiences of King Charles, well it also doesn't accord with
00:04:09apparently his reported behavior at the hospital in Paris when he went to
00:04:13identify his ex-wife's body, apparently
00:04:15a of he was completely grief stricken and stayed with her for half an hour emerging in
00:04:19tears, second of all doesn't accord at all with his conduct at that
00:04:23funeral, we can debate whether it was a good idea to have William and Harry walk behind the
00:04:27coffin, but at the time he looked as if he had the weight
00:04:30of of of of the world. on his shoulders and further more, just point that struck me this
00:04:33of morning, why has earl Spencer sat on this story for nearly
00:04:37of 30 years and if his father behaved this oddly when his mother
00:04:40died, why didn't prince Harry
00:04:42of include those details
00:04:43in in of spare?
00:04:44a yeah, of I
00:04:44of mean these are all very valid points, I mean there's plenty of
00:04:48other
00:04:50of uh issues to which I'm sure when the book is uh out
00:04:53on on on sale and and
00:04:55of everyone will obviously pour over the details, I'm I'm sure there'll be more points of
00:04:59debate, I mean... that struck me very early on, was this
00:05:02extraordinary accusation
00:05:05of
00:05:08of of that um that the royal family had come between
00:05:08in - lord spencer's father, Johnny Spencer and the late...
00:05:12queen um with claim there was a sort of romantic interest between them
00:05:16when he was aquary um and
00:05:19that they had that young love had been um
00:05:22snuffed out by lord mount batton because lord mount
00:05:25batton is was trying to
00:05:29preserve lilabet for prince philip mean you've only got to
00:05:33look at the the dates - it would take you one minute on google to
00:05:37establish that um lord spencer the 8th
00:05:40old Johnny Spencer Charles Spencer's father became aquary to George
00:05:44in in 1950 and then to the queen in 1952, by
00:05:48which time she was married to Prince Philipp and had two children, so there's absolutely no
00:05:51prospect of any romance, I mean there's another point, Robert, we
00:05:55need to leave it there so I can fit in, I can fit in Nicholas Owen who you're very
00:05:59familiar with because he once covered the Royals, but Robert Hardman, thank you very much, it will run and
00:06:03run as we say in the trade, and talking about stories running and running,
00:06:06Nicholas Owen, let's not get into that, we haven't got time now but it is
00:06:10extraordinary. say one quick thing,
00:06:14this is a king who's got cancer and uh still dealing with it as far as we
00:06:18as far as we know, just just a thought, we're getting
00:06:22back to politics, we're getting back to politics and we're going to have a whistle stop talk through the sunday
00:06:26papers this morning, mail on sunday burnam early election tax hike,
00:06:29rumors of a mansion and other taxes, he has
00:06:32to have an election because there are red lines he needs to cross in order to fill this 10 billion black
00:06:36hole, yes well mean the thing that really matters is what's called the fiscal
00:06:39headroom that's the surplus that the treasury has
00:06:42you hopes want to to have put in its back pocket all the time so that whatever's happening with
00:06:46you taxes coming in not fast enough or
00:06:49you know other things going wrong that headroom every year should be over 20
00:06:53billion at the moment it's shrunk to 5 billion pounds that's like having
00:06:57sort of your ultimate savings down the back the sofa
00:07:01however or it we are disappearing into very very dangerous situation something's got
00:07:05to give there's going to have to be big tax what do you do -
00:07:09one the things that's now being talked about is a mansion tax as they say everybody
00:07:13else, the headline is that on houses over one and a half
00:07:17million pounds. I tell you one problem, this government's facing, the way the property
00:07:21market is going, scared at what all this is doing, many many property values are sinking
00:07:24anyway, so they're going to find themselves the houses, lot of houses they think would pay that
00:07:28tax won't be paying it anyway, and do you want the double whamy a time when because of
00:07:32inflation going up interest rates might go up and so their mortgages will be more expensive on
00:07:36houses that are worth less nick, exactly, exactly, all the options are bad
00:07:40ones, but for goodness sake let's have some sort of straight. forward talk about all of this
00:07:43right, one thing that doesn't seem to be on the table when it comes to October the 28th, when
00:07:47John Healey is going to deliver the budget as chancellor is cut to well fair, pip
00:07:51payments are to double and families with eight children are to receive
00:07:5521,00 more, well yes, yes,
00:07:57the eight child benefit things quite quite straightforward in that, if your family is
00:08:01big enough because the cap has been removed, it was originally only two children would get
00:08:05it, so if you got eight children you do get an enormous amount of money, forgive me if I choose to have an
00:08:08extra child, not now by the way, not now, that account is closed, but if I
00:08:12choose that back in the uh mid-90s, yes. um, why would i
00:08:16expect a private sector employer to give me more money for having a chop? why are people
00:08:20expecting the public sector to pay for them to have ageed children?
00:08:24i'm afraid, i'm just completely in agreement with you. there's lots of other things to tackle as
00:08:28well, the so many. the thing that really gets me across about all this, when you talk to
00:08:32anybody who's been involved in administering any these benefits, and this is going back lot
00:08:36of years, one lady i know worked in one the old days when you had an office where people would
00:08:39come in and have to justify getting benefits. 'they only had to walk in the door and
00:08:43say I don't feel well or whatever
00:08:45I can't work and they'd get the money there and then the checking system doesn't
00:08:49really exist properly no face to face yeah no face to face also I read in that
00:08:53sun and Sunday story that people make the point listen lot of
00:08:56parents who are on low income salaries are using universal credit to
00:09:00top up and I appreciate that but that accounts for 60% the
00:09:04parents so by association 40% the parents are
00:09:08receiving the benefits without being in work at all how is that sustainable
00:09:12absolut absolutely disastrous situation, but don't don't worry, because
00:09:15Jim Radcliff says the country's going to helin a handcart, but
00:09:19yes, hey, if we've got financial problems, they could get even worse, why? what is
00:09:23somebody in the Caribbean suggesting we do? yeah, yeah, i
00:09:27get a little bit tired these sort of multi-billionaires are turning around and saying we should be doing
00:09:31this and should be doing that, but it is a worry, they are the people that create the wealth after
00:09:35all uh, with that without people like him,
00:09:38mean, who knows where what situation would be, even worse,
00:09:41wouldn't we? "um uh, it is a pity, I mean
00:09:45one the things that apparently is on the table and the possibility that we
00:09:49if people do decide to flee abroad to the Caribbean or wherever they're going to
00:09:53Monaco and all these other dreery places um that they will get an
00:09:57extra tax before they go, well an exit tax top of a wealth
00:10:01tax top of a mansion tax, it's looking decidedly attractive
00:10:05to remain in the UK isn't it not um but
00:10:08I was saying as well about the caribbean um link
00:10:11slavery" operations all right, there's a bid now for us to be paying
00:10:15slavery reparations into the billions, because the prime minister of Barbados
00:10:19thinks it's a good idea, there's talk of a big legal action, lawyers
00:10:23rubbing their hands making lots of money. again as in all these situations, this is
00:10:27getting absolutely crazy, isn't it? the thing that madens me is the biggest
00:10:30traders of slaves in the world back in the very very old days
00:10:34were arab countries, nothing to do with us at all, and we were the do we
00:10:38have to say this again, which country took the lead in abolishing slavery, it
00:10:42was this country, we did more, you know, people, we all know
00:10:46will force and people like that, but there were lots of others, lots of people and
00:10:50in the in in the the navy the day who risk their
00:10:53lives to stop all that. we're looking forward to get no credit for that
00:10:57quest to the middle east for some these arab states to cough up load of cash, yes, good
00:11:01point, let's not hold our breath on that one, absolutely unlikely, of course, on
00:11:04the Rackliff front, I thought it was interesting that Nigel Farage wrote a piece in support
00:11:08of Ratcliff in the newspapers this morning, I know he's
00:11:12now non- Dom and he hasn't been here for five years and funny enough I've pre-recorded an interview
00:11:16with Bridget Philipson which is running after this where she sort of says I'm not taking any advice for
00:11:20millionaires that have left the country, I wonder now if he might start backing
00:11:23reform, although can't because donations-wise he's a foreign
00:11:27donor, you need to be in the UK to donate to oh yes, these are
00:11:31these people suddenly coming up with the vast amounts of money, isn't it? and they have to be here to
00:11:35do it, they have to be able to do it. very quick final thought, who do
00:11:39you think has won the battle between the ginger and the winser? the king or charles
00:11:43spencer, uh, the king, hands down, do you think spencer has made a little bit of
00:11:47fool of himself? oh, a little bit of fool of himself, i agree, and my dear old mate
00:11:50Robert, you were talking earlier, got it dead right, some the actual
00:11:54facts
00:11:54do not add. and once you get into that, once people can start doing them,
00:11:58looking into these things carefully and saying, you got your dates wrong mate, how can we trust any of
00:12:02it? also, how can you trust somebody remembering something that happened 29
00:12:06years ago, yeah, you can't remember conversations from three decades ago,
00:12:10absolutely, absolutely not, right, nicholas, leave it there,
00:12:13because earlier I spoke to the chair the labour party and minister for women and
00:12:17equalities, Bridget Philipson, and here's what she had to
00:12:20say, Bridget
00:12:23Philipson, the chair the... party and the minister for women and equalities joins me in the
00:12:27GB News studio now, lovely to see you this morning, thank you very much for joining
00:12:31me. I'm just going to ask you a question about your previous guys as education secretary,
00:12:35because I thought the PASA scores which kind of assess children around
00:12:39Europe and the world were interesting, England way ahead
00:12:43of Scotland and Wales, which didn't adopt the reforms
00:12:47that Michael Gove introduced when he was education secretary, so does that
00:12:50prove that Michael Gove's much loathed reforms were actually right?
00:12:55"I think it shows that there are lots of strengths in the English school
00:12:59system, including in areas like Phonix, which was something that began under the last labour
00:13:03government, but then was rulled out by Michael Golve, that was something I've always supported
00:13:07because it's seen great results in terms of improving reading amongst children,
00:13:11and children having a really strong foundation and literacy and numericy is
00:13:14essential for all their lives. I think what the pizza results also do show
00:13:18us is that because the challenges we still face around some the deep-rooted
00:13:22inequalities and that gap between ' 'the poorest children and the more
00:13:26affluent children, if we can make more progress on that, then the scores would be
00:13:30even stronger, and I think that is the area that needs more focus, how do we
00:13:33tackle some of those big challenges that we see where young people in communities
00:13:37like mine don't achieve all that they should, and how do we
00:13:40really,
00:13:41you know, do further work on that, because if we did, I think we'd be
00:13:45seeing even better results, but we've got a quite a big and entrenched disadvantage
00:13:48gap uh within our school system. Okay, you're going to - come
00:13:52out now with new unit that will priorit'. is the white working
00:13:56class, you have in the past been accused of being class warrior, is
00:14:00this more kind of work on class a degree of
00:14:03popularism, perhaps to appeal to reform voters,
00:14:07what's this all about? so
00:14:09I i've always believed it's right that we tackle inequality around sex, around
00:14:13disability, around race, but I don't think we've talked enough about class and how that has an
00:14:17impact and what people go to achieve later on in their lives, so a community like
00:14:21mine in Sunderland, there are amazing young people of such talent. want to
00:14:25achieve so much, but actually by virtue of where they're from, family background,
00:14:29family income, class, they don't achieve all that all that they should, and we as a
00:14:33country are poorer because of it. i also think government, when we're thinking about
00:14:37public services, about how we deliver things, we shouldn't just be thinking
00:14:40about areas like sex and race and disability, they're essential, that has to
00:14:44continue, but also what about class, why is it for
00:14:48example that you know if you're from a working class background, you're far less likely
00:14:52now to get on in the arts, in media, in law, things. haven't improved in some
00:14:55regards, some have, there has been progress, but government should be thinking
00:14:59seriously about our job in widening opportunity, and this is what the new unit
00:15:03is all about. do you still regard yourself to be working class?
00:15:07i'm
00:15:07from working class background, but i don't live a working class life now. no, and i'm
00:15:11really fortunate that because of particularly
00:15:14education, i have,
00:15:16you know, i've had enormous opportunities, i feel very
00:15:20fortunate to have enjoyed,
00:15:21and i want more young people in our country to have the chance to... success,
00:15:25now success takes different forms, but I want young people to have a sense of
00:15:29purpose, a sense of belonging, and a real
00:15:32sense that like they can be optimistic about the
00:15:35future, but I was growing. up I heard over heard
00:15:39lots of conversations about how whether we could afford to pay the bills, how
00:15:42are we going to make the money add up, that's not something my children have to
00:15:46experience, and I'm very fortunate and they're very fortunate, you put down that degree of
00:15:50kind of, I suppose social mobility from where you grew up to making it all the way
00:15:54to Oxford down to education and indeed your mom
00:15:58working, because I was just looking back at your history and thinking, well you are half educated under a
00:16:02conservative government, I think primary school, and then when you're in senior school you're a
00:16:06labor government, so I asked about the go thing as well, because so often education
00:16:09becomes so polarized, you have to accept that some of your
00:16:13social mobility happened under the tories. I have always been
00:16:17clear that the reforms of people like Kenneth Baker were critical
00:16:21and they were critical to my experience in the school system too, so the introduction of
00:16:25national curriculum happened under a conservative government. I therefore
00:16:29find it a bit old that the conservatives have drifted away from recognizing that all schools should
00:16:33be teaching the national curriculum, that was the approach that I adopted as education
00:16:37secret. but some these reforms are generational 20, 30,
00:16:4040 years, some have worked well, like the national curriculum,
00:16:44others, I think particularly around technical and vocational education, there is much more
00:16:48to do so that young people to that point about enjoying success,
00:16:52so that all young people are clear about where they're able to go in the
00:16:55future, um, and university was the
00:16:59right choice for me, I want young people to have genuine choice, whether that's
00:17:03university, an apprenticeship, going to college, not to have things
00:17:06closed down, because they are and where they're from, but to have real choices
00:17:10and sadly background determines those choices
00:17:14for you a way that if you have more money and you
00:17:17have you know if you're from better off family, often the
00:17:21choices that are there for you and the freedom that you
00:17:23have, they're just so much so much bigger, it might not be better off or less well off, it might
00:17:27be parents who work and parents who are on benefits, i just want to move to the
00:17:31economic situation because it's been much reported, the forthcoming budget, i know you're not
00:17:34going to you're not the chancellor, you're not going to start writing budgets on GB News,
00:17:38however, there's much talk about this 10 billion pound black hole in the
00:17:42finances, there's much talk about inflation being up to 3.1%,
00:17:45there's much talk about the 30-year guilt yield being a all-time
00:17:49high or at least as high as it had been since the late 90s. the
00:17:53questions are being asked about where's the money coming from? Andy Burnham
00:17:57now is reportedly not ruling out early election because he wants to scrap the
00:18:01manifesto which made key pledges on not increasing tax so he can
00:18:05increase tax. As labour chair, what do you of those
00:18:08plans? we were only elected in July 2024 and that
00:18:12was for five-year term
00:18:13and there's
00:18:13a lot of work that we need to do and I'm focused on
00:18:16how between now and the next election we deliver the promises that we
00:18:20made to the British people, but I think with Andy Bernam as our prime minister, how we demonstrate that the country
00:18:23is moving in the right direction, that people feel a sense of optimism about the
00:18:27future, and that they feel that our country's best days lie ahead of us. now we've got an
00:18:31awful lot to do, and that will require quite a lot of time in order
00:18:35to
00:18:36do that. but but this room. mansion tax, maybe the threshold will come down
00:18:40to 1.5 million, that will drag 270,000 people into the tax
00:18:44bracket. this idea of stealth taxes seems rather
00:18:47peculiar when we read today two different stories: first of all, that PIP
00:18:51benefits are set to double by 2030, that's up
00:18:5519 billion pounds. so let's tax more working people, to
00:18:59quote your colleague Pat McFadden,
00:19:01to play benefits to those who don't work, and then thanks to the scrapping the two
00:19:05child benefit cap, we now have... children with families with children,
00:19:09eight children or more, they're likely to get
00:19:12£21, more that would give
00:19:14them a total benefits of 29,000, which is the starting
00:19:18salary of a police officer, so people watching and listening are thinking to
00:19:22themselves, why i being taxed more when the benefits bill is going
00:19:25up? so on the budget, as you said at the start, um,
00:19:29you'll know that I'm not going to engage in speculation and there'll be all manner of speculation that we'll
00:19:33read in the weeks to come ahead the budget at the end of October, but 'the
00:19:37wider point about how we make sure we have a country where everyone
00:19:41can get on, and that's what I believe, yes, I do want to see more young people in
00:19:45particular in work, the numbers of young people who are not in education, employment or
00:19:48training are way too high, that's not good for the economy, it's not good for any of
00:19:52us as side as society, but it's also devastating for those young
00:19:56people to that point earlier about opportunity, there's no sense of hope or
00:20:00opportunity if you sit in your bedroom for years on and feeling totally directionless, there's more
00:20:04chance them being like that if their parents are on benefits isn't there'?
00:20:07"equally, some the hardest working people I know are people that are in
00:20:11law-paid jobs, they work incredibly hard, they do the right thing, they don't earn
00:20:15huge amounts of money, and they deserve support to, and to that point about child
00:20:18poverty, one the biggest indicators is to what whether you will go to
00:20:22live a good life where you can contribute as whether you grow up in poverty, therefore tackling child
00:20:26poverty, lifting children out of poverty is absolutely the right thing to
00:20:30do, and there is limit to what families are able to receive and it's right
00:20:34that that
00:20:35that there is an upper limit on that equally, sure." don't believe that children should be
00:20:38punished because of decisions that are taken by their
00:20:42parents, but they do suffer the consequences and we see in the numbers of young
00:20:45people who are out of work. okay, but there's a central deceat here, which is this
00:20:49notion, this false notion
00:20:51that the welfare bill is any way being cut, it isn't being
00:20:54cut, pip benefits are set to double by
00:20:582030, the welfare bill isn't coming down, so basically we're going to have a budget
00:21:02on October the 28th which hammers people who are
00:21:05working, people like your single mom brought you up and helped you
00:21:09to socially mobilize all the way to Hartford College, meanwhile those who don't work are
00:21:13going to be given a hand out, and and people like Jim Radcliff are saying that is why
00:21:17this country is going to the dogs, you can sympathize with that, "working people
00:21:20can see it very, very clearly, the working people that labor's meant to
00:21:23represent. I'm not sure I want to be hearing too much from someone who's a tax
00:21:27exileus to what they think is to the direction of our company, well he's a successful man who did once
00:21:31pay huge amount of tax into our economy, and other people who are
00:21:35very high rate tax pairs are leaving in their droves under this labor
00:21:38government, so we've just lost from Chris Rockoss 350 million
00:21:42quid taxes because the labor government is hammering the rich too much. Look, I do get
00:21:46the point about working people, people who work hard expect to see..." rewards
00:21:50for that contribution, it's why they will have seen in in recent months
00:21:54with the new prime minister Andy Burnam a real focus on giving people more breathing space
00:21:58around VAT on electricity bills, around bus fairs, around business
00:22:02rates cuts for hospitality, which is incredibly important part of our economy,
00:22:06I think that shows the direction that this government wishes to go in, to recognize the
00:22:10contribution that people make and to make sure that they are awarded for doing
00:22:13so. There are of course always decisions for any chancellor a budget
00:22:17is to the balance that you strike and how you seek to achieve. but I think what you
00:22:21have seen in the last two years is the public finances
00:22:24stabilized, we've got the highest growth in the last six months
00:22:28of any economy in the G7, that's a good foundation to take into the
00:22:31budget, but yes there are cho, there are choices ahead, and this and the economy
00:22:35cannot be stabilized when guilt yields are higher now than they were under Liz
00:22:39Trust, quite fairly people could accuse the labour government of crashing the
00:22:42economy, also on the chancellor John Healey, sorry, why hasn't he
00:22:46resigned, he's not going to meet this 3% of...
00:22:50DDP pledge by 2030. We have the prime minister admitting in the house of
00:22:54commons that now the ambition is pathway to 2035. So
00:22:58why is John Healey still in his post? So what both the
00:23:01chancellor and the prime minister have set out is that we will get to 3 and a
00:23:05half percent and they'll set that out next year in the spending review. Yeah, but five years
00:23:09later than John Healey said when he was defense secretary, he
00:23:13resigned, he resigned over not getting to 3% by
00:23:162030. Now he's happy to get to 3% by 2030.
00:23:20five because he's got he's in a more powerful job and he's got a pay rise and it's another
00:23:23notch on his CV. This is this man unfortunately I'm sure he's a decent
00:23:27person, but this is abject hypocrisy from the chancellor, isn't
00:23:31it? So we've obviously got the budget coming up next month, but we've also got the spending
00:23:35review next year, and that will be the opportunity to set out that path to
00:23:383.5%. What I would say addition, however, is this labour
00:23:41government is investing more in defense than any time since the cold war, we are
00:23:45serious about defending our country as much as hely wants, wanted when
00:23:49he was defend. secretary, it's amazing how he's moved the goal post, isn't it? we are
00:23:53serious about investing in defense given all the threats that we see
00:23:56internationally, and I think you can judge us by our record in terms the defense investment
00:24:00plan and also the record levels of investment that we're putting into defense, the opposition
00:24:04leader has suggested that he's fidling while um Russia
00:24:08threatens uh Europe once again, we had very serious threats from
00:24:11Putin over the weekend, I put to you that if the pip
00:24:15benefit bill is going up by 19 billion and John
00:24:19Healey is... isn't going to meet the 3% of GDP target, then you are
00:24:23prioritizing welfare over warfare, that's a perfectly fair criticism that you
00:24:27must accept. the threats that we face are grave and this is a really a
00:24:31perilous time for for our country in terms the
00:24:34international threats that we face and what we see. however, I'm not
00:24:38really sure I want to hear the advice of Kemy Badnock on this topic given that they never
00:24:42reached the NATO level when they were in government, in fact it was under the last labor
00:24:46government that we delivered it. they hollowed out the armed forces. "they
00:24:50didn't invest in our defense, we are now we are now doing
00:24:54that, well they were, they were accused by their own former defense secretary of hollowing out the
00:24:58armed forces, we are investing in defense,
00:25:02it is right that we do that, but I do agree that we need to look at how
00:25:06we bring down the social security budget, because clearly we do not want
00:25:09people to be out of work, especially young people, but in order to do that we've got
00:25:13to make sure that we're investing in what matters to get young people
00:25:17back into work and back into training and education very." quick question on donations
00:25:21because I know you've been heavily critical of reform and this 72 million that's coming from those
00:25:25two crypto billionaires, but hasn't democracy been for sale for
00:25:28decades, particularly when it comes to the trade unions, giving money to
00:25:32labor, labor then comes out with the legislation that they support,
00:25:36so it's not even cash for questions, it's actually cash for laws. I will
00:25:40always defend the link between uh the labor party and our trade unions, they help
00:25:44to found the labor party, they represent the voice of working people, it's still
00:25:48democracy for sale isn't it?
00:25:50that means is um you have um social
00:25:53workers um catering assistants, teaching
00:25:57assistants, welders, they contribute a couple of quid every month
00:26:01into their political pot through the... the central point is it influenceces
00:26:04policy, so it's no different to what you're accusing reform of, I think there is a world
00:26:08of difference between someone on law pay working a school, contributing through their
00:26:12trade union to some dodgy crypto money drifting into British
00:26:16politics, I just don't think employment rights bill, but they
00:26:20that comes directly from often quite low-paid, low low-paid
00:26:23workers pay a small amount every month to their union so that their
00:26:27union says to us the labour party, we want to make sure that people in those
00:26:31jobs are represented. "I take that seriously,
00:26:33and I'm really proud of what we've delivered on workers rights, because I to your to what we've been
00:26:37discussing earlier, I think if you work hard and you do the right thing, then there should be
00:26:41reasonable expectations about sick pay, about knowing how
00:26:45much, how many hours you're going to work every month, I think that is fundamental to
00:26:48people seeing that work is the root out of poverty and feeling that their
00:26:52contribution is being valued and recognized. Brigit Philipson, thank you so much for coming
00:26:56into the studio and for your time. Thank you very much
00:27:00to bridget phillips and there up next shadow chief. secretary to the treasury Richard
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00:30:29welcome back to the camilla tominy show on GB News still to come, shadow! chief secretary to the
00:30:33treasury Richard Fuller on Britain's economy and the debt crisis. Lisa is
00:30:37smart on whether the Liberal Democrats have gone into the political wilderness.
00:30:40Economist Gerard Lions on this week's rising inflation and borrowing costs and
00:30:44author Nick Tyrone on his new book on reform. But first here's
00:30:48your latest news headlines with Bethany
00:30:50Elsey.
00:30:59Camilla, thank you. Good morning, your top stories from the GB News room. At 10
00:31:02o'clock. Earl Spencer says there are similarities between how both
00:31:06his sister, princess Diana, and the Duke and Dutches of Sussex
00:31:10have been treated by the media. Harry and Megan, recently returned
00:31:14to the... from California, six years after stepping back from
00:31:18royal duties have been repeatedly critical the press and
00:31:22speaking to the BBC, sir Spencer condemned the media
00:31:25saying constant daily criticism must be
00:31:29cancerous influence anyone's
00:31:31life. President Donald Trump has announced he'll
00:31:35form an artificial intelligence force and appoint an AI
00:31:39SAR amid warnings about the technology. In a post on social media
00:31:43he said it won't in any way. hinder or stifle the growth
00:31:47the tech as he aims to keep the US a world leader in the
00:31:50industry. he pushed back against calls to slow down development until
00:31:54better safeguards are in place and repeated comments that concerns around
00:31:58the dangers and risks the tech are a hulks. he
00:32:02claimed AI is the next industrial revolution, but will be even
00:32:06larger and more impactful, possibly as much as
00:32:0925% of America's
00:32:10GDP. at least two people have been killed.
00:32:15and six others injured in one the biggest Ukrainian drone attacks
00:32:19on the Moscow region overnight. Officials in Russia say more than
00:32:23200 drones had been shot down, but fires were reported in several
00:32:27residential houses, local warehouse and an oil
00:32:30refinery. Flight restrictions are also in place at two airports.
00:32:34Meanwhile, in Ukraine, mother and her two three-year-old children have
00:32:38been killed in the Kief region. The governor there said the area has
00:32:42endured constant hostile attacks for more. a day with
00:32:4631 sites damaged in five
00:32:48districts. Ed Sheeren has apologized
00:32:52to fans for making mistakes as he opened a solo
00:32:56show in Philadelphia. All the singers support acts, including
00:33:00his band have quit the current loop tour, after
00:33:03the US rapper McLamore was dropped for making pro-Palestinian comments
00:33:07during a show in New Jersey. Shirin said that decision was taken by
00:33:10promoters, not him, but said he was sorry for his handling the...
00:33:15controversy that followed, he described the October 7th Hamas led
00:33:18attacks as horrific, but added that Israel's treatment of residents
00:33:22in Gaza is catastrophic, catastrophic and
00:33:26unjustifiable, and national
00:33:30task force aimed at tackling misogyny across society is
00:33:34being launched by the government, it's part of labor's manifesto pledge to half
00:33:37violence against women and girls within a decade, the group of
00:33:41ministers, women's organizations, academics and local lead...
00:33:45will seek to root out harmful attitudes online, in
00:33:49schools, workplaces and within communities. further
00:33:52measures are expected to be announced this week. those
00:33:56the latest headlines, let's get back to Camilla. tune in GB News
00:34:00radio wherever you are, online, on DAB Digital Radio,
00:34:04on tune-in, on radio player, nation player and on your
00:34:08smart speaker. just say playgv
00:34:11news.
00:34:20"thank you for that, Bethany, joining me now is shadow chief secretary to the treasury, Richard
00:34:24Fuller. Right, let's grasp the nettle, because
00:34:28your boss, the shadow chancellor, Andrew Griffith was asked about this, you were
00:34:31economic secretary to the treasury under Liz Trust, yes, so did you
00:34:35have role in that mini budget, Richard Fuller, do you now regret the role that you
00:34:39played, not less with the role I played, no, but I think there are lessons to be learned and we
00:34:43should be accountable in politics." those and the key lesson from that is that if
00:34:47you want to have a bold approach on reducing tax, which conservatives naturally
00:34:51do, you've got to make sure you've done the hardyards on public spending
00:34:55first, and kemynock has been very, very clear about that, fair enough, but but when you
00:34:59look back on it, what precisely did go wrong
00:35:02and what mistake will you not repeat, because at the time you were praising
00:35:06it, quasi quateng was praising it, Andrew Griffith was praising
00:35:09it, labor have made mince meat of it obviously and said that you crushed the
00:35:12economy, they're not far wrong, are they? well it's well they are far
00:35:16wrong, i think um the the most important thing in life is that you have to
00:35:20learn how to do things better if things don't go as you would wish, but it is also fair
00:35:24to say that budget was four years ago, we're now
00:35:27looking at the third labor budget coming up,
00:35:31each time labor have had fiscal event, they have produced
00:35:35their forecasts and then they've run out of money and then they've run to the
00:35:39taxpayer for more money, so accountability runs both ways, the
00:35:42conservative party underkemnock has learn the... from that period,
00:35:46we got inflation down to 2%, we got interest rates down, the labor party and
00:35:50government has always seen the tax payer as backstop because they can't
00:35:54control public spending,
00:35:55and they've let inflation now go up above 3%. on the high
00:35:59borrowing cost today, so i think that 30-year guilt yield is
00:36:03now at 5.2951 something, and that's actually
00:36:07higher than under liz trust, but some economists point out that one the
00:36:10reasons why the market responds more
00:36:14negatively. in the British economy is
00:36:16because
00:36:19I don't think so. I think people in the bond market react to the
00:36:22government the day and how serious that government is about making
00:36:26sure that when they... money to the government that the the money is safe
00:36:30and that's why under Rachel Reeves, I'm afraid under what seems to be a
00:36:33continuity chancellor, labor have said, don't worry bomb
00:36:37markets, if we run out of money cuz we're borrowing lot and we're spending lot,
00:36:41we'll go back to the tax payer and we'll ask them to pay more money, that's why
00:36:45they extended the personal tax threshold freeze by another three years,
00:36:49that's why they've gone out
00:36:50to look for additional tax didn't unfreeze the tax
00:36:53thresolds, 2028, jeremy hunt put corporation tax
00:36:58but so you're claiming to be low tax party, but that wasn't in evidence when you're in
00:37:02power? well, let's be be clear, from the period after
00:37:0620, 2019 to 2024, the public finances
00:37:10were shot to pieces by the response on COVID, 400 billion
00:37:13pounds spent on various measures to help people in the NHS, to help people with their
00:37:17businesses, to help people keep a float, nobody at the time was complaining
00:37:21about that, that money had to be paid back, some people were questioning the wisdom of it and
00:37:25whether it was basically kind of bomb and... economic bomb waiting to go off some
00:37:29years later, and of course now it has, well, that might have included me, but my my point
00:37:32is is on that is that that was befell the government, it wasn't
00:37:36art and design the government, the problem for the labour government
00:37:40now is that they have decided to spend more money, they're the ones
00:37:44who increased boring already by more than 200 billion since they came into
00:37:47office, so these are choices the labor government, but sunac chose to
00:37:51furlow, mean we can have debate about that till the cows come home, there was also of course the covid
00:37:55loan fraud which saw... "the government basically fleased of
00:37:59billions of pounds, so perhaps COVID wasn't managed that
00:38:02well, you can't really, I understand what you're saying, because I I completely
00:38:06agree it was kind of an unprecedented global event that nobody had prepared
00:38:10for, least of all Boris Johnson, but you can't fall back on that
00:38:13and then not allow labor to blame global economic headwinds for their
00:38:17own was, can you? Well, no where it's relevant,
00:38:21Camilla, but I have to say that lot the problems in the UK
00:38:24economy, lot the reasons why labor keep coming." the taxpayers for
00:38:28more and more, lot the reasons why labor forecasts about how much they're
00:38:32going to borrow, how much they spend are always wrong is because they have
00:38:36charted a course themselves that says that public spending is
00:38:39important, we want to borrow more money, and most of all because they
00:38:43won't tackle welfare, sure, and people up and down this country cannot
00:38:47understand why labor is prioritizing spending more and more
00:38:50money on welfare, and not putting any money forward for our defense, on
00:38:54welfare, by the way, so you've pledged to cut the welfare bill, by 23 billion,
00:38:58but today we learn from the Sunday Times that PIP payments alone are
00:39:02going to go up by 19 billion by 2030, yes, so
00:39:06really that means that you're only cutting the welfare bill by 5 billion
00:39:10because you're cutting a cut or you're cutting a rise, I should
00:39:14say, if you're going to spend, if you're going to spend 23 billion
00:39:17less, but the bill at least for PIP is 19 billion
00:39:20more, you're not cutting welfare that by that much at all, well
00:39:24we the the the announcements you talk about that 23 billion. the announcements that we made at
00:39:28our conference last year, they were fully costted types of changes we like to make, we've
00:39:32made further choices since then, so for example, we would
00:39:35reinstore reintroduce the two child benefit cap, that's an extra two and a half billion
00:39:39pounds, we're looking at other ways in which we can look to reduce welfare, my central
00:39:43point is it's kind of tinkering at the edges and not really dealing with the
00:39:47substantive bill going up, i put it to brigitte phillipsen earlier and i think you watched it, i
00:39:51said there's a deceat at the heart of this government that you're cutting welfare at all, if you
00:39:55look at welfare spending now versus what it will 20, 30,
00:39:5831, the bill is higher, so when they said they were cutting welfare, they
00:40:02were cutting a cut to welfare, and I'm saying that if you're on going to pledge to
00:40:06cut 23 billion from bill that's going to go up by more than that, or nearly as
00:40:10much, you're not cutting welfare either, yeah, you might be more reminded to go
00:40:14with reform because they've pledged to cut 50 billion, those are words, camilla, let me talk
00:40:18about reality, so I was member of part from 2010, in Dunken Smith,
00:40:22conservative mp, had done enormous amount of work, sure, saying, work is at
00:40:26the heart of our welfare reform. and we brought for from 2010 to 2015
00:40:30and then certainly from 2015 to 2017 substantial changes in welfare that
00:40:33meant we had to go through processes of reviewing welfare for people already on
00:40:37welfare as member of parliament having to deal with people who came in
00:40:41to say mr. i've got this issue with my welfare payments are not going to come these were
00:40:45difficult conversations
00:40:47to have, it isn't easy to
00:40:51that period. make we
00:40:52over also these changes, but the conservative government did then that introduced a welfare cap that said we're going to cap the total
00:40:56amount of welfare. every single year the chancellor had to
00:41:00come back to say whether or not he had exceeded that cap. yes, what did labor do in
00:41:042019? they blew the cap up high and said we're not going to
00:41:08review it again for five years. all right, let's ask you what you will do, so we think that
00:41:12Kemy Badnock's going to announce that you want to scrap inheritance tax, yes or
00:41:15no? well, we'll see what we're looking a number of issues to do with
00:41:19ruling out, not ruling anything out, it's not my job to rule things okay, why didn't Andrew
00:41:22Griffith in his speech last week say or commit to the conservatives
00:41:26reversing? the increase in employers national insurance that Rachel Reeves brought in,
00:41:30well we'll have to see what the conservative team come up with and what Keny Benock says about
00:41:34tax and expenditure, my role, my role as chief shadow
00:41:38chief sector treasury is make sure that we're looking at ways in which whatever tax
00:41:42measures we want to take, that we have we've done the hard
00:41:46work on how we can afford that by bearing down on the balloon
00:41:49welfare bill, making real cuts, as you rightly said, but also in other areas the
00:41:53public sector. it's it's really shocking, if you look back to
00:41:562019, whilst the productivity in the private sector has gone up and up and
00:42:00up, we're still in the public sector below where we were in
00:42:042019 in terms of productivity, that means more tax payers money being spent for
00:42:08fewer outcomes, but but the left will... use you of tax cuts for the rich in
00:42:12order to cut spending? well, that's not what the Swedes say, so Sweden,
00:42:15Sweden got rid of inheritance, you're talking about inheritance tax.
00:42:19sweden, not known for not being, sweden actually is known for being very
00:42:22egalitarian, sure, they got rid the inheritance tax, and what their
00:42:26review shows many some years later, is it actually what it did is
00:42:29it benefited people bause there were more people in work and the people and the economy
00:42:33grew. okay, final question, um, because we're running out
00:42:37of time, we've got a story
00:42:38in the mail on sunday suggesting that and and might want to call early general
00:42:41election, touries aren't as ready as labor, neither reform,
00:42:45perhaps libdems are ready, we don't quite no, speaking to leasmart in just
00:42:48moment, you're not going to get enough votes to form
00:42:52majority, so you'll have to do deal with someone, so presumably talks with
00:42:56reform are on the table, no, not been absolutely clear, there won't be
00:43:00pact with reform,
00:43:03labor, i was, no, i don't think i think concerns
00:43:07are going to win, can well this country, the polling doesn't suggest Richard Filler at all, you're
00:43:11behind labor
00:43:12and reform, so the tories aren't winning this at the moment, on the current
00:43:15numbers, you are not winning this next election, are you? if we if we'd had this
00:43:19conversation in 2017 when Mrs. May called the election,
00:43:23yes, 20 points ahead, you'd have said Richard, you're going
00:43:26to win by landside New you, I lost
00:43:28my seat, we never know what
00:43:29happens in election campaign, I'll tell you this, if I had to choose someone I wanted leading my
00:43:33party or any party into an election to win, it'd be kemmy back, I know, but you'd
00:43:37rather do deal with Nidol Farage than you would Andy Burnam, or indeed... Zak
00:43:40Palanski, I would rather we win Ed
00:43:42Dave, so you're not going to cut your noses off despite your
00:43:46faces, if you can form a coalition with another party on the right, you're going to
00:43:50do deal with reform, and you might be forced to, because neither of you have got the numbers
00:43:54right now to form majority, it's a perfectly practical question that
00:43:58GB News viewers and listeners would like answer to, we've given the
00:44:01answer, like a flat no, even if the electoral maths
00:44:05allows labor four more years or a progressive alliance, it's a it's
00:44:09a flat. no to an alliance with reform, pact with
00:44:12reform, and I'm saying that if we go into a general election, I'm
00:44:16backing Kimmy Badnock to win and to win an absolute majority. All right, Richard Filler, thank you very
00:44:20much for joining me in the studio on GB News, great to speak to you. Well, we did mention
00:44:24the lesser spotted Liberal Democrats, they're not keen to come on the show a day
00:44:27we didn't want to come on the show, but has come on others, but thankfully the Liberal Democrat
00:44:31cabinet spokesman Lisa Smart will be joining me from their conference in
00:44:34Brighton. Stay tuned for that
00:44:35next.
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00:47:52well. come back, earlier I spoke to the Liberal Democrats Home Affairs spokeswoman Lisa
00:47:56Smart and this is what
00:47:57she said. I'm joined now by Liberal Democrat cabinet
00:48:00office spokeswoman, member of parliament for Hazelgrove. Lisa
00:48:04Smart, lovely to see you this morning, Miss Smart. Now you're at your conference in Brighton,
00:48:08we can see just about the pier in the background, which is very nice too.
00:48:12Let me put something to you though, 72 seats won at the last
00:48:16general election, but your poll rating has just, it's just
00:48:19stagnated, you're in the low teens and some... people, sorry to
00:48:23break it to you are questioning whether Ed Davy should go the
00:48:27distance here, he's giving his seventh speech to conference, isn't he
00:48:31just a bit of
00:48:31a busted flush? so I
00:48:35love coming to conference, Camilla, because I get to see all the friends I only ever see
00:48:39at conference, but we as Liberal Democrats debate our policy and
00:48:43decide our policy here, you go to some other party conferences and it's
00:48:47a series of fairly drab speeches after fairly drab speeches, so there's
00:48:51real buzz. an excitement here, because you're right to mention the record
00:48:55breaking 72 MPs, the most ledems ever, the
00:48:59largest third party in parliament for a century, but we've
00:49:02also had eight straight years of wins at local elections, we
00:49:06increased the number of MSPs in the Scottish elections by
00:49:09150% in May, and we've the
00:49:13only person who can convert votes into seats with this level of
00:49:17efficiency is Ed David and the lib dems, there is genuine
00:49:21buzz around the place. that what might be coming down the
00:49:24tracks, we're seeing new labor government and we're
00:49:28looking towards the next general election, we've had some huge
00:49:31successes in terms the policies we've persuaded them to
00:49:35adopt, and I'm excited to see what comes in the
00:49:38future. well, when you say that when people think of Ed Dave, they think of
00:49:42efficiency, that's not quite what the polsters have
00:49:45discovered, and I'm not saying this because I'm just, I'm
00:49:49disappointed that Ed Davy couldn't appear on my show and has put you up. instead which I'm
00:49:53I'm very happy to speak to you, but it is curious that the Libdem
00:49:56leader won't speak to me on GB News on the day, epivol day in the
00:50:00middle the conference, but no matter, so when voters were asked to
00:50:04describe Ed Davy in their own words,
00:50:0842% effectively said don't know or
00:50:11who, and
00:50:15isn't that an opportunity? I would just say Camilla that talking to you a Sunday
00:50:18morning is quickly becoming the high points of my conference.
00:50:22diary, I uh, Ed Davy uh,
00:50:26is has a real opportunity, so you're right, not everybody knows who he
00:50:30is, and there are some politicians he say mad stuff and get lots of
00:50:33coverage both online and on your channel, that's not Ed
00:50:37Dave's way, he takes a really, really thoughtful approach to politics, because there
00:50:41are some massive challenges affecting my constituence, affecting all
00:50:45of our fellow citizens, and Ed takes the the thoughtful position on
00:50:49things like social care, you will know Camilla that Sparty. families are
00:50:53not getting the care and support they need for their loved ones, there is a real problem with how
00:50:57we're funding social care and it involves real thought, real consideration and a
00:51:01proper plan. it's been pushing for for us to think about social care
00:51:04much longer than any other politician, partly because of his own personal
00:51:08story of having cared for his nanna and his mom and now caring for his lovely
00:51:12son John. the last labor government under care
00:51:16starmer said they take three years to have look at how to fund social care, that's far
00:51:20too long, families can't wait that long and say... Ed was part the
00:51:23conversation with the new prime minister over the summer, those cross-party talks, looking
00:51:27at what needs to happen and how it needs to happen much more quickly. It's a
00:51:31serious, thoughtful statesman, and I couldn't be prouder to have him as my
00:51:35party leader. I think serious, thoughtful
00:51:38statesman may be overstating it a little bit, because he has been known for
00:51:42his clown like antics. However, I take your point on care, and to be fair
00:51:46of all the party leaders. He is speaking from personal experience and speaking with
00:51:50conviction on that subject. How... Isn't it
00:51:54the case that even with the last prime minister, Kier Starmer and now the new one, that
00:51:57he spent much of his time at PMQs almost trying to curry favor with
00:52:01the labor government,
00:52:02and let's be honest, the public can't really distinguish. you from labor,
00:52:06because you are against proposals to cut
00:52:10welfare, um, you're very much in support of things like wealth taxes
00:52:13and mansion taxes, and of course, despite being liberal
00:52:17democrats, you advocate trying to reverse pass over the referendum and
00:52:21realigning with Brussels, don't
00:52:22you? so I think it's the
00:52:26duty of responsible opposition to agree with the party of
00:52:30government when we agree with what they're doing and hold them to account when we don't,
00:52:34I don't... think anybody would say that Ed Davy has agreed with the
00:52:38government's approach to Donald Trump and some the wackier things he's been
00:52:41doing. Eds talked about Trump and the government's approach to Trump at
00:52:45PMQs many times. He's also talked about care a lot
00:52:49the time. I talked to constituence all every week all the
00:52:53time and
00:52:53they ask why can't you just get together across
00:52:56party and work on things you agree with. There are too many big
00:53:00problems facing our country. The threat from Russia and their regression
00:53:04in the east. of Europe and it's at the hybrid war that's going on in this country
00:53:08now, people are scared about what the future might hold and they want people to
00:53:12work together for the betterment of our country. now are you just
00:53:15talking about wanting to work together, because at the end the day the libdems
00:53:19are there, as I say, your pole ratings in the low teens, you may
00:53:23have some kind of role to play a coalition if one
00:53:27party or the other doesn't have enough seats to
00:53:29form a majority at the next general election, so basically you're just keeping your options
00:53:33open, so we know that... "the Libdems are open to doing pact with
00:53:36labor and possibly even the greens on the side, and Ed
00:53:40Davy in recent times has said, you're open to doing pact with the
00:53:44conservatives even after the disaster the last coalition,
00:53:48Lisa Smart? So
00:53:52I want there to be as many Liberal Democrats elected after the next election as
00:53:56possibly can be, because that gives us the most power, that gives the most chance of
00:53:59us uh implementing our liberal democrat values in government, and we're a political
00:54:03party, we exist to fight and..." elections so that we can get stuff done and you do that being in
00:54:07government. I think it would be a really weird thing for us to spend lot of our
00:54:11time trying to stop Kemy Bayonox Conservative Party, giving the
00:54:15keys to number 10 Downing Street, to Nigel Farage to then do some sort of deal with
00:54:19them after an election, so I think that sort of scenario feels a little
00:54:22farfetched to me, but people seeing councils up and down the
00:54:26country, good people working together when there are areas we agree on, and
00:54:29that's actually one the things that surprised me most, I was elected to parliament
00:54:33two years ago and the... of cross-party working on issue by issue
00:54:37basis is much more than actually
00:54:39you see on the tele, but hang a minute, let me just try and drill into what you've
00:54:43just answered there, are you saying that you would entertain, and this
00:54:47is why Ed Dave's rhetoric has changed somewhat, because I remember back in the
00:54:51day he said, we'll never enter into coalition with the tories again, they let us
00:54:55down, we had to abandon our scrapping of tuition fees, etc
00:54:58etc. you seem to be saying that in order to
00:55:01stop Nigel Farage, you would entertain the idea. of pact with
00:55:05either Bade Knock or indeed
00:55:06Burnham? No, what I
00:55:10said was it would be a really weird thing for us to do to fight the Conservatives
00:55:14tooth and nail as we are doing in many the seats across the country, I won my seat
00:55:18from the Conservative, there were lots of seats across the country where that was the case, and if you
00:55:22look at the places where we are second, where we're closest to winning, lot of those are
00:55:26currently held by the Conservatives, it would be a really weird choice for us and it'd be quite
00:55:30a a sharp pivot to us for us to go from fighting them
00:55:34tooth and... mail a seat by seat basis and also some their
00:55:38rhetoric where it's frankly it's quite hard to distinguish what Keny Bedock
00:55:41saying from what Nigel Farage is saying it would be a really
00:55:45weird choice for us, we've had four sitting MPs from the Conservative
00:55:49Party defect to reform and I think we're up to 20 odd former
00:55:52Conservatives defect to reform and they now new candidates the
00:55:56Conservatives have to sign up to reforms policy platform in order
00:56:00to stand for the conservatives so I think that would be I would be very...
00:56:05'I can't see a way in which that could work. All right, so very quickly, yes or no answer, more
00:56:09likely to do pact with labor
00:56:10then, so I'm
00:56:14focusing very much on winning my seat back at the next general election, I won
00:56:18it in 2024, and I want to make sure I use my
00:56:22uh platform to get things done for the constituents of Hazel Grove to actually win next
00:56:26time, and I know number of my colleagues are doing the same thing, I want the biggest number
00:56:30of, I want the biggest number of Libdems elected so that we have the most power
00:56:34after the general election'. and I think everybody is right to look at
00:56:37what's going on now rather than worrying about what happens after the next general
00:56:41election. there's a distinct absence of no there in your answer
00:56:44Lisa Smart but we have to leave it there. enjoy Brighton and I enjoy the rest the conference.
00:56:48thank you so much for joining me on GB News in the absence of
00:56:51your esteemed. thank you to
00:56:55Lisa Smart they're coming up next inflation is back up to
00:56:583.1% and long-term government foreign costs have reached levels not seen
00:57:02since the 1990s. just how wor Should we be? This is the
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01:00:25Welcome back, joining me now as the economist Gerard Lions, Dr. Lions, lovely to see you
01:00:29this morning, we've got this warning for us to Jim Radcliff, who admittedly hasn't lived
01:00:33in the UK since 2020, but hey, he's a successful businessman has
01:00:37made lots of money, and he suggests that the UK is on the slide, obviously
01:00:40he's not alone in the millionaires and billionaires leaving the country in their droves, including
01:00:44recently Chris Rockoss who takes his 300. 50 million
01:00:48pound contribution to the exchecker with him, just how bad is
01:00:52it? well, good morning, um, it's bad,
01:00:56what the UK is heading for debt crisis, the good news if there is good
01:00:59news is that we're not alone, other countries are in the similar
01:01:03position, and it's not imminent, not imminent in terms the
01:01:07extent to which you will hit hard, but one can already see that
01:01:10financial markets globally are concerned, not just about the UK, but about
01:01:14other western economies, the challenge in the UK is that
01:01:17borrowing rates for the government are much higher than
01:01:21elsewhere and that's reflecting three things, one that bank rate is
01:01:24high in the UK, it never came down sharply in recent years as the
01:01:28Europeans cut rates for instance, they're now of course raising rates.
01:01:32second, UK inflation is very sticky and has been now probably
01:01:36for five years or so, and third, there is concern about the
01:01:40outlook for the government's fiscal stance, basically the public
01:01:43finances, so high bank rates, sticky inflation and worries about...
01:01:47fiscal position, hence the UK government is borrowing a very
01:01:50expensive rate and that's adding to debt cost and adding to the
01:01:54fiscal burden. how much of this is kind of legacy from
01:01:58liz trust's mini budget and how much of it is as result the
01:02:02labour government and its last two budgets? okay,
01:02:06well I think to answer that, I think it's important to put an
01:02:10international perspective, because there's a tendency always in the UK to view it
01:02:14as whether it's labor or the conservatives fault of.
01:02:17G7 economies, the UK has the second
01:02:20lowest level of debt of all them, that sounds pretty
01:02:24good, most
01:02:25but them are a very difficult position, Germany is better than us, but they're
01:02:29spending at the moment, but the challenge is that UK
01:02:33debt to GDP, that's the ratio the markets look at, the size of your
01:02:36debt relative to your economy, that's heading towards
01:02:39100, 100%, and once you get to that level,
01:02:43then the relationship between growth and interest rates becomes the key
01:02:47issue, so we're a difficult situation, but that comes basically back to your
01:02:50question, it's not so much blaming one particular
01:02:54government or another, is the fact that in recent years neither the major
01:02:58parties has addressed. the issue to get that g, that growth rate
01:03:02higher and to get the basically the borrowing rate
01:03:06down, which requires the Bank of England to do better job at keeping inflation under
01:03:09control, so I wouldn't blame it solely on the mini budget is a combination of
01:03:13factors built up over the years, but that picture across Europe,
01:03:17Dr. Lions, I mean is it because we've had successive governments of all different
01:03:21hues sort of addicted to spending, addicted to tax and
01:03:25spend, it's not only us where we've seen this uh tax
01:03:29take, reach kind of record post war high that's been replicated
01:03:33across other European nations, some of it may also have something to do with
01:03:37mass migration. well, yeah, in the
01:03:40UK in terms of migration, it's often being seen by
01:03:44economists, including the official forecast the OBR as
01:03:47necessary way to get growth up, I don't necessarily agree
01:03:51with that, obviously if you have skilled migration, that's a good thing, but when you
01:03:55have large scale migration, it clearly adds the whole series of
01:03:59costs. "the challenge in the UK is that instead of
01:04:02investing, either investing in capital or investing in
01:04:06people, big corporations have gone for employing
01:04:10or cheap, sometimes heavily skilled, it has to be
01:04:14said, migrants as well, so migration is a sort of not the
01:04:17cause the problem, it doesn't help, but there's a legacy the issue in the
01:04:21UK, which is that for years we've not really invested enough indeed over
01:04:25decades, but coming back to the borrowing figures so we don't get diverted, the
01:04:29challenge." ahead the budget at the end of October is that the growth figures are not
01:04:33going to be materially raised higher, they're probably going to be better than the OBR, the
01:04:37official forcaster viewed in April, therefore the chancellor
01:04:41needs to actually do few things, he needs to recover his buffer, his
01:04:45fiscal buffer which allows him to meet his fiscal rules has been
01:04:48depleted, then he needs to borrow any more to actually fund
01:04:52spending, so he needs to basically cover the buffer and cover increased
01:04:56spending, there's a comprehensive spending review next year, but we know spending is...
01:05:00already very high, so the question then is whether he basically
01:05:03borrows more or whether he taxes more, he does actually have
01:05:07scope to actually borrow more, given that last week the bank of
01:05:10England decided to sell less guils to the market, we're
01:05:14borrowing less in terms of number of guilts we sell this year, so the
01:05:18borrowing might be able to be one root out of it, but
01:05:21unfortunately taxes are likely to increase as well, but I think he's
01:05:25going to go down the middle ground of not going for massive tax increases because
01:05:29the... would see those tax increases has not been good for
01:05:32growth, so the challenge is unless you get spending under
01:05:36control and and unless growth starts to pick up, then the
01:05:40chancellor basically has to decide whether to borrow more or tax
01:05:43more. yes, but are you saying it's a choice between borrowing and taxing rather
01:05:47than cutting spending because we're dealing with
01:05:49socialists? no, there's look, there's three
01:05:53things, i've argued before in this broken, one is sensible fiscal
01:05:57policy and therefore the policy on that front.
01:06:00to be to get public spending under control, simple end of second, we
01:06:04need to actually have sensible monetary policy that gets inflation under
01:06:08control, and that would allow borrowing yields to come down, and third, you need to
01:06:12get growth up, growth up requires supply side
01:06:15reform, that doesn't come overnight, at the moment it's a k-shape
01:06:19economy in the UK, in terms of think of capital k, parts
01:06:23the economy are going up, parts of it are going down, the parts that are going
01:06:27down are the mory bound interest rate sensitive. "there's lot
01:06:31to talk about taxing housing more, mansion tax coming down to a low
01:06:35level, that highlights the real problem, when you go down the wealth route of
01:06:39taxing, you start to actually find that you start to hit the middle
01:06:42classes, housing is already the
01:06:44biggest find financial asset for most people in the
01:06:48UK, it's the largest asset class, it's already taxed
01:06:51incredibly heavily, if you start to tax it even more
01:06:55than it hits the market really hard, and bear in mind that if you
01:06:59start to..." with the mansion tax threshold, then you start to do what happened
01:07:03in other countries, you deter people from upgrading their
01:07:06property, and who gets hit by that, sol traders, the white
01:07:10van man, and you start to have a real negative economic
01:07:14consequence, so coming back to the chancelor's budget, tax increases
01:07:18that seem simple politically have very damaging economic
01:07:21impact. what would you say the chances are of this mansion tax
01:07:25threshold coming down, because we've already discussed on the show today
01:07:28- lions, the... notion that they can't really cross the red lines that were set in the
01:07:32manifesto on income tax, VAT and other
01:07:36taxes, so therefore they're going to have to look to raise taxes somewhere a little bit more
01:07:40subtly, then that raises a spector does... it if they bring down this
01:07:44threshold on mansion tax to 1.5 million, people will then not be
01:07:47improving their homes, it therefore may cause house
01:07:51prices to depress a time when mortgage rates might
01:07:55actually go up, which is double whammy of hell for home owners isn't
01:07:58it? yeah, the property market is very bound, construction
01:08:02as well as the housing sector more generally. coming back
01:08:06to the big issue is about curbing spending, that's the
01:08:09fundamental issue, the markets are not. convinced by this idea that
01:08:13there are simple taxes such as mansion tax that can be
01:08:17introduced, they're either negative for the economy and in terms the
01:08:21consequences for economic growth, or they don't they don't raise as much
01:08:25money as you expect, and they have negative consequences in terms
01:08:29of behavior. we already tax housing incredibly heavily,
01:08:33it's the sec, i think we're second highest in the globe, we tax it
01:08:36stupidly through stamp duty, it deters people from moving,
01:08:40mansion tax being introduced.
01:08:42"on top of everything else just compounds the problem and doesn't
01:08:46help, as you say, it discourages people from upgrading their property
01:08:50and damages the economic outlook for white van man, sour
01:08:54traders and the housing sector more generally. final
01:08:57question, how much do you think the welfare bill needs to
01:09:01come down by for them to provide for some more fiscal
01:09:05headroom for some the suggestions you've made? we've got reform pledging to
01:09:09cut that bill by 50 billion, we've got the tories pledging to..." it by 23
01:09:13billion, and yet we learned today that PIP payments alone are going to
01:09:17go up by 19 billion by the end of this parliament. Right, in answer
01:09:21to your question, the markets will take the view that you cut welfare
01:09:25spending quite significantly, but
01:09:27you need to cut it a credible way. That needs to be credible
01:09:30economically, and it needs to be credible politically. As we saw
01:09:34year ago when Starmer and Reeves were there, they try to trim the
01:09:38pace of welfare spending increase by about five billion a tiny amount.
01:09:42in the scheme of things and that caused uproad with the back benches, so
01:09:46you need to have a credible plan, economically you want to actually do it as soon
01:09:50as possible, but the markets realized that politically it probably needs to be
01:09:54fazed in and it needs to be phased in maybe over time, so coming back
01:09:58to your question, quantifying it, picking the number out the air is
01:10:02not the issue here, it needs to be meaningful and significant
01:10:05reduction in the welfare bill, for instance in terms the triple lock
01:10:09which everyone picks up um that's that
01:10:13so far over the last few years has probably added 12 and a half billion since it was
01:10:17introduced back in 2011, so that's small but
01:10:21not that big in the scheme of things, you really need to make
01:10:24imroads into the big areas and that's the political
01:10:28damaging cut issue, so coming back to your question, the
01:10:32markets need to see meaningful significant reduction in the
01:10:35welfare bill, it needs to be seen, it's credible not just economically
01:10:39but politically, but it needs to be seen not in isolate. but in terms
01:10:43of an overall economic package that has some economic
01:10:47vision and some prospects to get economic growth higher,
01:10:51because really we need to get economic growth, the g up and we need to get
01:10:54inflation and eventually that interest rate that we borrow
01:10:58at down. Gerard Lions here's hoping, thank you very much
01:11:02and for joining me this morning on GB News, good to speak to you, still to come,
01:11:06reform has received 72 million pounds from two donors, but can the
01:11:10party turn money into polling support? and power. Nick
01:11:13Tyrone joins me next to discuss his new book inside Reform
01:11:17UK. This is the Camilla Tomonmy Show only on GB
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01:15:24Welcome back. to the Camilla Tomini Show author and political commentator Nick Tyrone joins
01:15:28me now you've written new book about reform what's going on here Nick
01:15:32you've described yourself as liberal metropolitan
01:15:35remainer but you've warmed to reform yes what has
01:15:39gone on what are people saying to you at dinner parties honestly oh what people are saying
01:15:43to me at dinner parties is is quite a thing we could take our whole segment up with with that one
01:15:47sure I'm sure we both could share our stories one that's good that it's been
01:15:50reflected in I've got some negative reviews from left leaning outlets well that's no
01:15:54surprise at all
01:16:04what he managed to achieve, the fact that he'd been written off so many
01:16:08times, 2010, oh he didn't get seat, so that's the end
01:16:12of him, and then he you know influences can call the referendum, 2015,
01:16:16he didn't get a seat, and then everybody was writing him off 2019, everybody
01:16:20was writing him off again, and then suddenly he's got
01:16:23basically what for lot of this parliament has been the main
01:16:27story in terms of british politics, so
01:16:31to me I just have to have some respect for that, so that was one thing
01:16:34going in, but also I had the novel idea of I'm going to go around, I'm going to
01:16:38speak everyone in reform that will speak to me from the very highest
01:16:42level, in terms of donors, MPs, down to local activists
01:16:46and just see what they have to say and then write about what happens. All
01:16:50right, so it's hard to condense a book like this, but hey, we have to, because it's live
01:16:53telly, what are your three? top takeaways about this party? so the
01:16:57big one is that i really warm to the activists, i thought
01:17:01they were all really lovely, all really nice and not at all what i expected, not
01:17:05your racists and fruit cakes and loonies that David Cameron described you kippes
01:17:09us, indeed, indeed, actually what i found was lot of very civic-minded
01:17:12people who felt like reform was the answer, now whether i
01:17:16whether you would agree with them that reform is the answer or not, actually the civic-minded bit is pretty
01:17:20important, you have lot of people who are nurses or ex-nurses,
01:17:23ex-militaries very... common amongst reform activists and candidates,
01:17:27so so the fact that I kind of like them all and that there was no racism
01:17:31again, one these reviews, they were in the people that you encountered, obviously they have
01:17:35had vetting problems right, of course of counselors that I mean wasn't one
01:17:39accused of suggesting that Nigerian should be melted and used to full
01:17:43pop, yes,
01:17:44I i mean I'm not suggesting that there are no racist members of reform, but I wouldn't
01:17:48suggest that there are no racist members of labor or the toris or
01:17:51dems, did you find much evidence of in fighting, we've got rumors
01:17:55of Zier Yusuf being at war with the conservatives who have crossed over
01:17:59the house of commons to go to reform, we know that there's been arguments
01:18:03internally of course about that channel forsting uh dan jukes and
01:18:07'james all have had to fall on their swords pending
01:18:10investigation and famously there was the falling out between Nigel Farage
01:18:14and Rupert Loe nick yes oh which is huge
01:18:16and I do cover in the book I do cover uh the Rupert Low sort
01:18:20of fallout and yeah that is issue for Naja Farage why do you
01:18:24think he falls out with people so easily um I think part of it is he's
01:18:28had lot of he's been burned a lot of times he was very much burned in Yukip I
01:18:31feel and so he's extra on his guard also I think he has very clear
01:18:35idea of how he thinks reform can get to hundreds and
01:18:39hundreds of seats and possibly win the next general election, yes, and he felt that Rupert
01:18:43Low fell foul of that, whether that was fair or not on Rupert Low, is
01:18:47hope it's your opinion, but clearly Nigel Farage has very clear
01:18:50vision and he's seeing that through, and do we think that Nagel Faraj definitely
01:18:54wants to be prime minister? I asked that because following from the
01:18:58Channel 4 Sting, we had a little bit of rhetoric in the newspapers around him thinking about
01:19:02some kind of succession plan, Zea Yousuff's names obviously thrown into
01:19:06the uh pot. 'yeah, we also had quite a lot of briefing that, I
01:19:10mean Nigel Faraj himself had said his family had urged him to just get out of
01:19:14this, obviously they'd had threat mades again threats made against
01:19:17them, he had sculdeduh the media for being outside one of his children's
01:19:21homes, it's all proved to be a little bit difficult, it's not been plain sailing since
01:19:25he won Clacton, no, no, no, and it never was going to be, I mean, I do
01:19:29wonder sometimes,
01:19:30you know, things like the 5 million pounds, not declaring it, I do find that odd, because
01:19:34it strikes as a bit naive, and a bit, someone was so much political
01:19:38experience, pretty odd move, I mean
01:19:40I don't how he didn't understand that they're going to go through everything, they were going to do throw everything at
01:19:44you, yes uh, and the idea that oh well, maybe no one will ever
01:19:48find out about the 5 million seem seems quite is it naivity or bad judgment? well
01:19:52that's a great question, um, could be a little b of both you know,
01:19:55and there's criticism isn't there the kind of lack of professionalism around him, is that
01:19:59fair? tell us about what you discovered, because they will argue, listen, we are trying
01:20:03to professionalize every minute of every waking day and every...
01:20:07minute the day rather and also they have got a much more substantial operation
01:20:11now at Milbank Tower, yeah, but it it they have
01:20:15been exposed, not least by the Channel 4 documentary to have some weaknesses on the
01:20:19inside, let's put it that way indeed, well with the Clacton by election, you sort of felt
01:20:22that we should have been at least one grown up in the room who went, okay, wait second,
01:20:26what happens if labor and the tories etc don't run, yes, do you think they didn't
01:20:30war game that's the warm scenario, i think he has too many people around
01:20:34him who are probably just applaud as every move and just say 'yes Nigel, you're
01:20:38a genius, you're going to be great, and every politician, every single every politician,
01:20:42every top line politician needs some people in the room who are going to
01:20:45go,
01:20:46I i get what you're doing here Nigel or whoever it is, but this is this isn't going to
01:20:50work, and here's why, you just at least need those voices in the room, and I'm coming
01:20:54at this from the outside, obviously it's not like I've been in big meetings at
01:20:58Millbank, but I in researching the book, I certainly got the sense that
01:21:02yeah he probably needs a few more grown-ups around him, but also his sense of loyalty to those
01:21:06who he's been, yes'. so tell a bit about that, I mean the Posch George, George
01:21:09Cotrol, conundruum, on one hand, this figure is pretty
01:21:13controversial, he did spend some time a US jail, he did
01:21:16subsequently write a book kind of upining the state of things and and talking about money
01:21:20laundering and how it could be better tackled, um, he's obviously caughted
01:21:24controversy because of his own contributions to the party and beyond,
01:21:28maintaining that friendship would be Nadal Farage's way of saying that he's loyal and
01:21:32doesn't give up on his mates, critics might say, well listen, you've got to be a bit more
01:21:35ruthless than that if you don't want to...
01:21:37be tainted by other people's associations? well, indeed, and I think you know,
01:21:41frontline politics is very brutal game, and it's particularly difficult for someone like
01:21:44Najra
01:21:45Faraj, she's a very controversial figure and has lot of people after him, so I understand he
01:21:49wants his mates around him, he wants people that he's he can trust, that he have been
01:21:53around them forever and ever, but you're exactly right, you probably need fewer
01:21:57of those people right now, going forward into the next general election than you
01:22:01need people who are just going to clinically tell him what's what,
01:22:05how do reform bridge the gap,
01:22:06I mean they were
01:22:07in the... mid-30s last summer, it's almost as if they've peaked too
01:22:11soon, they're now down kind of level peging with labor with the tories behind on
01:22:14about 20% there on about 24 average, clearly that's not
01:22:18enough to win majority, therefore the spector once again
01:22:22and now people think i keep on banging on about it, but we need to look at the electoral
01:22:25maths clearly and plainly that if they don't have enough to
01:22:29form the next government they're going to have to go into coalition with the tories probably, it's no one else to go into
01:22:33coalition with is there, well there's no one else who would consider it, no exactly, but you said
01:22:37that the tory revival is a mirage, why? well, because I just don't see any
01:22:41evidence of it whatsoever other than stories in Westminster newspapers
01:22:45or what I mean is 20% not evidence the fact that they're not dead and buried, I
01:22:48mean Nigel Farage said that they would kill the conservatives,
01:22:51they haven't killed that party, sure, absolutely, but if you think
01:22:54about Kemy getting so much better as leader the
01:22:57opposition and her approval ratings going up in recognition of that
01:23:01fact, and they still are sort of hovering in the high teens, they're
01:23:05still just sort of can't get past reform even when... reformer in such
01:23:09a
01:23:09you know it's been rolling crises for reform for months and
01:23:13we're still seeing them on like
01:23:14there was a poll today on them 25% you sort of to me it makes me
01:23:18wonder well what if "this isn't killing the reform thing,
01:23:22what could? yes, yes, I know, but it's
01:23:25almost like not enough to lose or win, just somewhere
01:23:29in the middle,
01:23:30you need to leave
01:23:30it there, name of your book, it's called the rise of reform, the
01:23:34inside story of Britain's political disruptors, Nick Tyrone, uh, it's
01:23:38available, there is on the screen now, and it's available now, thank you very much
01:23:42indeed Nick Tyrone for joining me, coming up next is Sunday with Michael
01:23:45Portillo, Michelle Mabel, what is coming up on the show, good morning,
01:23:49Camilla, well." "the European Union and Canada, is that a marriage
01:23:52made in heaven or in hell? You may not be interested in
01:23:56war, but war is interested in you, said Tolstoy. We'll be
01:24:00asking whether Andy Burnham can avoid the consequences of war, he wants to hold
01:24:04alof, but can he? I've got a tale of madness,
01:24:08bravery and murder in the Arctic, that's all about 110
01:24:11years ago, fascinating stuff, and then a
01:24:15dog and a man will pad into the studio in order to give
01:24:19me theater. reviews oh we we definitely want a theater
01:24:22review from dog, what breed is it? it's a very small black fluffy
01:24:26thing, it comes on every week, i've never inquired as to its breed, it's
01:24:30called rapa. all right, we need to wrap apparently, but fascinating
01:24:34stuff, we'll tune in from 11, i'll be back next week from the labour party
01:24:38conference in Liverpool with host of guests to keep you
01:24:41entertained, 9:30 next week, up next though it's the
01:24:45weather.
01:24:52Today clouds overhead, turtals
01:24:55in within. Box solar sponsors the
01:24:59weather on GB News. Hello there, good morning,
01:25:03welcome to your GB news weather update from the Met Office. High pressure
01:25:06dominates our weather today, which means it should be mostly dry, lots of
01:25:10sunshine, feeling warm in the sunshine as well. High pressure
01:25:13will continue to build from the southwest and that should eventually ease away our
01:25:17winds as well, but still a bit breezy at times. towards the far north
01:25:21and northeast for most though it should be dry bright
01:25:25afternoon, any showers across Scotland that we've seen this morning eventually
01:25:28easing away, they're still one or two just crossing eastwards across the far northern
01:25:32Isles and much lighter winds compared to what we've seen over the last couple
01:25:36of days, and even though temperatures are touch down compared to recent days in the lighter
01:25:40winds and in the sunshine, it should feel rather pleasant, eyes reaching into the low
01:25:4420s across parts the southeast.
01:25:48now to finish off the day, it still should... remain mostly dry for many
01:25:51areas, still one or two showers just crossing across the far north of
01:25:55Scotland, but many areas should remain dry to finish off the day. we
01:25:59might perhaps just to start to see a little bit more cloud pushing to Northern Island,
01:26:03Northwest England towards the end the day, but else where across England and
01:26:07Wales there should be plenty of clear skies, starting to turn quite
01:26:10chilly under the clear skies through the course the evening, but different story
01:26:14across the north will eventually start to see more and more cloud build from the
01:26:18northwest and eventually some... outbreaks of rain and drizzle start to push
01:26:21through during the early hours the morning, push into pushing into northern Ireland,
01:26:25Scotland and northern parts of England by the time we reach Monday morning, but
01:26:29to the south of this under the clear skies, feeling rather chilly, in rural spots we
01:26:33could get down to around two to 4 degrees celsius, so perhaps a little bit of
01:26:37patchy frost first thing, maybe a little bit of fog. This should clear quite quickly
01:26:41through the course the morning though, and for much of England and Wales there should be more sunshine on
01:26:45the cards, but towards the north still rather cloudy with some rain and
01:26:48drizzle. particularly by the afternoon across any hilly
01:26:52areas, still feeling quite warm, quite muggy, temperatures pushing into the
01:26:56mid-20s, that's it from me,
01:26:58bye-bye, today
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01:30:20good morning and welcome to Sunday with Michael Portillo. Truman
01:30:24Capote writes in breakfast at Tiffany's Aprils have never
01:30:27meant that much to me. autumns seen that season
01:30:31of beginning. Spring: on this third Sunday of
01:30:34September, you are most welcome to two hours of culture, current affairs
01:30:38and politics. With the discovery that some of
01:30:42Andy Burnham's initiatives had been planned by Saker Starmer, my
01:30:46panel will debate whether disillusion about the new prime minister is now
01:30:50setting in. The royal row continues as
01:30:54Earl Spencer claims
01:30:55to be telling the truth about what King Charles said when Princess Danna
01:30:58died, is the...