Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:01days. Let's listen, let's remember, those were good days, weren't they?
00:00:05Let's remember, those were good days, weren't they?
00:00:08Let's remember, those were good days, weren't they?
00:00:12Let's remember, those were good days, weren't they?
00:00:15Let's remember,
00:00:16right?
00:00:20Friends,
00:00:27look, esteemed council members. We all
00:00:30have families. Allah makes a servant rich,
00:00:34and poor, He can bring them down and lift them up.
00:00:37Mocking someone's situation, making fun of them, trying
00:00:41to belittle someone, asking "where is your wife, where is your husband?"
00:00:44is not fitting for a human, it's shameful, it's immoral,
00:00:48it's immoral. What do you mean "where is your husband?"
00:00:51Who are you to ask such a question? Friends,
00:00:55friends, as the Deputy Mayor of the Metropolitan
00:00:58Municipality... While managing
00:01:02this council from this podium, I do not find it
00:01:05ethical or correct for a woman
00:01:08to speak to another woman in this way,
00:01:11or to ask such a question in 2026.
00:01:13I apologize to all women,
00:01:16as the Deputy Mayor, as the Deputy Mayor of Istanbul Metropolitan
00:01:20Municipality. I wish it hadn't happened,
00:01:23but I'm very sad,
00:01:25friends. Can we restart, dear
00:01:28Murat?
00:01:50Why is she asking? What does it have to do with her husband or wife? What does she mean
00:01:53by "where is your husband?" What kind of level is this? Ekrem
00:01:57İmamoğlu was acquitted twice in a case. He was penalized
00:02:00for saying "discourteous." This is not something that should be shoved in our faces
00:02:04so much in this country. A municipal council member comes out and asks another municipal council
00:02:08member, "where is your husband?" Can something like this happen?
00:02:11Do we have to witness this?
00:02:15You know, we used to say,
00:02:18"manners, please!"
00:02:22She says "where is your husband?" I don't even understand why she said it, but I understood
00:02:26from Nuri Bey's words that anything can happen to
00:02:29a person in life, they might have separated
00:02:32from their spouse, even if they separated,
00:02:35even if they didn't, what's it to you?
00:02:38What kind of impoliteness is this? What kind of thing is this?
00:02:42It's unbelievable. A municipal council member is shouting "where is your husband?" to another
00:02:45municipal council member.
00:02:48Ms. Sinem, do you know what's even more regrettable?
00:02:51What we've been talking about, look, if a municipal
00:02:55council member from the AK Party
00:02:59had said the same words to a woman,
00:03:02believe me, all the spokespeople of the government today would not have said
00:03:06anything, not even Mr. Şükrü. No, no,
00:03:09no, of course,
00:03:13it's not acceptable, she shouldn't have said it, but if she had said it,
00:03:16all the spokespeople of the government today,
00:03:19from top to bottom, all of them would have made
00:03:23the harshest statements, and most likely an investigation
00:03:26would have been launched regarding that municipal council
00:03:30member. So, the municipal council, which is the highest
00:03:34authority in Istanbul, where 16 million people live,
00:03:37where investments worth millions of liras are decided,
00:03:41like everyone else, when I and where all kinds of issues related to municipalities are discussed,
00:03:44is where these 16 million people, regardless of their party,
00:03:47elected these people to represent them, to make decisions concerning
00:03:51them while they live in their city. But you ask,
00:03:55"where is your husband? Where is your wife?" These questions really
00:03:58lower the level
00:04:01to such an extent. It's an insult who elected you there. She's raising
00:04:05her hand like this, pointing her finger, "your husband is where my husband is."
00:04:09What is this? I'm on screen, so I'm really trying
00:04:13to restrain myself, but as you said, the first people
00:04:16to condemn this should be the AK Party council members,
00:04:20above all else. We all say that family
00:04:23is sacred. It's above politics,
00:04:27it's above business. Making such accusations
00:04:31about anyone's family, especially in a council where such decisions
00:04:34are made, is truly unacceptable. Moreover,
00:04:38as Mr. Şükrü just said, if it were the opposite scenario,
00:04:42we would be talking about completely different things. Perhaps an investigation,
00:04:46an arrest, all channels would be saying this and that.
00:04:49Look, maybe no one else is talking about this right now,
00:04:53and we're talking about a great shame committed by a lady
00:05:12Friends,
00:05:18look, esteemed council members. We all
00:05:21have families. Allah makes a servant rich,
00:05:24and poor, He can bring them down and lift them up.
00:05:28Mocking someone's situation, making fun of them, trying
00:05:32to belittle someone, asking "where is your wife, where is your husband?"
00:05:35is not fitting for a human, it's shameful, it's immoral,
00:05:39it's immoral. What do you mean "where is your husband?"
00:05:42Who are you to ask such a question? Friends,
00:05:45friends, as the Deputy Mayor of the Metropolitan
00:05:49Municipality, from this podium,
00:05:51yes,
00:05:55she says she would say it again if it happened again.
00:05:57The woman
00:06:01who was shown, the council member who was insulted,
00:06:04is indeed an attorney,
00:06:07and the one who said it, Özden Bilgiş, is an AK Party
00:06:10IMM council member. But the one shown in the video,
00:06:14our colleague, the lawyer who was insulted,
00:06:18is Tuğba Çalık. The one who said "where is your husband?"
00:06:21is Özden Bilgiş, and the one who was insulted
00:06:25is Tuğba Çalık. So Tuğba Hanım was the one who was insulted.
00:06:28Yes, Tuğba Hanım. Okay, I understand.
00:06:31Yes. Were you going to say something?
00:06:34As I said, no matter what position
00:06:38you hold, no matter where you are elected, I don't think
00:06:41anyone has the right to ask such a question, either
00:06:45in politics or in humanity. First and foremost,
00:06:49I repeat, I think AK Party and Nationalist Movement Party
00:06:52members should condemn this, because politics should not
00:06:56stoop so low, so beneath
00:06:59the ground, in my opinion.
00:07:02Mr. Ercüment, you remained silent, but the issue here is not
00:07:06a woman yelling at another woman, it presents a general
00:07:09picture. I mean, this municipal council...
00:07:13We saw it, where did we first
00:07:16see it? Before Üsküdar changed, in that municipality,
00:07:19the council fight. Özgür Çelik on one side, AK Party members
00:07:23on the other. He's yelling at her, "come here, journalist! Come, come this way!"
00:07:26He's telling our Gamze, "council
00:07:29members, come, come here, speak here," and so on. What kind
00:07:32of tone, what kind of style is this? Is it worth it for a municipal
00:07:36council membership? I mean, you'd think
00:07:40he's going to be the President of the United States. What
00:07:43are you trying to share as a municipal council member? I don't understand. Isn't it a very
00:07:47strange level, Ercüment Bey? There is such
00:07:50a shameful situation, but I watched it many
00:07:53times to understand why this happened, how they argued.
00:07:57Now that you've shown it, I've watched it again. The people in the video,
00:08:01what I saw was that the group
00:08:05deputy chairman of the IMM is blushing,
00:08:08I mean, his face is red. He's blushing.
00:08:13Because he's presiding over the session, because he's ashamed
00:08:16of the situation. He's showing a humane attitude,
00:08:19I think. He's also showing a mature attitude and
00:08:23apologizing on behalf of the entire council because the people of Istanbul
00:08:27are watching. He takes it upon himself. He shows this virtue.
00:08:30Normally, if this happened in the Grand National Assembly of Turkey,
00:08:33or I'm trying to understand the picture from there,
00:08:36let's compare it to that. There are group spokespersons for the parties,
00:08:39right? Let's say something individual happened, they argued. Something unpleasant
00:08:43happened, tempers flared. They would come together, consult,
00:08:47and calm the situation with joint or mutual statements,
00:08:50apologizing together. This issue would be over. But there's
00:08:54no such attitude, no such maturity. If it happened again, she would say it again. This
00:08:58shows a power intoxication, this is power intoxication.
00:09:01I am powerful, I can do whatever I want. She did it, she showed
00:09:05that power, she did it. If others are not making statements,
00:09:08if no statements are coming from the AK Party or MHP,
00:09:12it creates a picture like, "if
00:09:15the power is ours, anyone can do whatever they want." That's the worst
00:09:19part. They should be examples for children, examples for children in Istanbul.
00:09:22Schools have started, so let's move past everything. And
00:09:26it really bothers one, I'm trying
00:09:30to understand it. Why should a woman
00:09:34be remembered or criticized
00:09:36by her husband? From the woman's
00:09:38side. This is also a terrible
00:09:41thing. I'm thinking, is this one of the
00:09:45consequences of our withdrawal from the Istanbul Convention?
00:09:49It comes to mind, you know. But it's a very
00:09:52bad situation. The issue is actually more than a debate
00:09:55in the municipal council, it's about the state
00:09:58of the political arena, I don't want to say political climate all the time.
00:10:02We need to talk about the current state of affairs.
00:10:06We're going into an election in such a harsh
00:10:09environment. One says, "where's your husband?"
00:10:13Another says, "come here." Another says, "whatnot."
00:10:16I mean, I haven't heard such
00:10:18language from the head of state, a municipal council
00:10:22member, I mean, I haven't heard such things from Erdoğan
00:10:25like "where is your wife, where is your husband?" I mean, in the past,
00:10:29Mr. President had some words that we criticized,
00:10:32but one would think he's the president, he has
00:10:36such power, but he asks "where is your husband?" I mean,
00:10:39we're going into an election in such an atmosphere, and in such
00:10:43an atmosphere, we're really expecting the economy to improve.
00:10:46For example, we can connect it to that again, maybe it's
00:10:50a small complaint, but as I said, Ekrem İmamoğlu
00:10:52receives a penalty for calling the Tuzla mayor
00:10:56"discourteous." He receives
00:10:59a penalty in a case where he was acquitted twice, but after the case
00:11:03was reversed and the judge was changed, he received
00:11:07a penalty. Saying he received a penalty
00:11:11already reveals it. Please. Really,
00:11:14I think no one should
00:11:17say that these matters have nothing to do with the judiciary,
00:11:21and I think the number of people who say that is very limited
00:11:24now. These decisions truly
00:11:27deal a powerful blow
00:11:28to the country's
00:11:32democracy, legitimacy,
00:11:35and the legitimacy of the governments. Therefore, you cannot
00:11:39prevent the high cost of living, because with
00:11:42this decision, you are showing
00:11:45that you cannot
00:11:47politically compete
00:11:50with the opposition circles
00:11:53or cadres, I cannot. But
00:11:56then I will remove them
00:11:58from the game,
00:12:01I will remove them from the game
00:12:04by using state power.
00:12:07But again, I repeat, we are not
00:12:11living a thousand years ago. All the developments from an hour
00:12:15ago, I believe, can now be heard even in the remotest
00:12:18corners of Turkey, they are heard.
00:12:22The people see. I trust this the most.
00:12:25Today, you will say about Ekrem
00:12:29İmamoğlu's case that
00:12:33he already had 13 cases, the judge changed 19
00:12:36times. In the
00:12:39"idiot" case, he was given the maximum
00:12:43penalty for insult, which is unprecedented in the history of the Republic.
00:12:47This time, even above what the prosecutor requested,
00:12:50and in a single session, the new judge
00:12:54again gave the maximum penalty. He gave a penalty
00:12:58above what the prosecutor requested, a maximum penalty.
00:13:01I mean, this
00:13:04truly became a very
00:13:07concrete example for everyone,
00:13:11especially those who say these cases are not political.
00:13:14In a very negative sense, for our country,
00:13:18it created very strong negative examples.
00:13:21So, if
00:13:24you think you can win elections
00:13:28by pushing politicians you couldn't
00:13:31defeat at the ballot box out of the game in this way, I think
00:13:35the council members have become the brightest
00:13:39political actors of the last period. In the part where you weren't on air,
00:13:42we talked about Tahsin Usta, the CHP council member
00:13:46who switched to the AK Party, saying, "they offered me the deputy mayoralty,
00:13:49so I switched." So, we are in an
00:13:52environment where even municipal council members have become
00:13:56political actors. We are in such
00:13:59an atmosphere. So he says, "they offered me the deputy mayoralty,
00:14:03and I believed I could serve, so I switched."
00:14:07What did we see in nullity? The wills were corrupted
00:14:10there, I mean, the delegates' will was corrupted there.
00:14:13And now you are also putting on the badge
00:14:17of another party with the promise of a political
00:14:21office. What does that become then? Yes.
00:14:33Perhaps you would like to evaluate it from this perspective. No, you are very right, but
00:14:36I would like to recall a statement by Mr. President:
00:14:39"The greatest corruption is disrespect
00:14:42for the national will." So today, really,
00:14:46I think the number of those who have been transferred
00:14:50to the AK Party, or
00:14:53removed from their posts, or arrested,
00:14:56or who have switched to another party
00:15:00with their votes in the municipal councils,
00:15:03there are
00:15:05municipalities. If you add all of them up,
00:15:09the will shown by more than 50% of the voters
00:15:12on March 31, 2024,
00:15:16is not in the same place. I think this is not
00:15:19a commendable situation for the AK Party.
00:15:22On the contrary,
00:15:25their own voters also feel that elections should
00:15:29not be won this way. As I said earlier,
00:15:32when we were talking today, it's a very hot,
00:15:35really thought-provoking thing. I think AK Party members should think
00:15:39more about this. There's no need to go to the polls to win
00:15:42a mayoralty anymore. Four transfers, three
00:15:46detentions, two arrests. I mean, targeting municipal council
00:15:49members. I think this rhetoric itself
00:15:53is a very bad example for
00:15:56the AK Party government, a party whose name means
00:15:59justice, during its 25-year
00:16:02rule. These negative views towards
00:16:05the AK Party are increasing.
00:16:09The undecided AK Party voters
00:16:12you showed in the first part, who might
00:16:15vote for another party,
00:16:18Ms. Senem, it's very important. Look,
00:16:22we must accept that there will be no
00:16:24change in the AK Party's 20-25%
00:16:27voter base. A change
00:16:30in the voter behavior of those
00:16:33above that is expected. I always say this. The undecided
00:16:36voters you mentioned, who say they might vote
00:16:40for another party, were 10% and how much?
00:16:4324. 24. So, a group
00:16:47close to 35% of the voters,
00:16:50almost 20% of them,
00:16:53is a very high percentage. So, their own voters are abandoning
00:16:57them. I remember saying this in your broadcasts
00:17:01as well, especially in provinces with conservative
00:17:03voters, besides the high cost of living,
00:17:07this double standard in justice is seen as
00:17:11very contrary to the understanding of people
00:17:14who believe in the justice of Omar. Therefore,
00:17:17they are reacting by saying, "these things are happening with our
00:17:20votes, people are being imprisoned, there are unfair, unlawful
00:17:24arrests." And I tell you,
00:17:28especially these people are waiting
00:17:31to see what the new party will say.
00:17:34So, it seems that most of them will switch
00:17:38to that new party. My impression
00:17:42from Anatolia is that
00:17:44especially these people who have become alienated
00:17:48from the AK Party, these voters,
00:17:50are waiting to hear what the new party will say. Therefore,
00:17:54in the first part, you also talked a little bit about
00:17:57how I think the fluctuations in these
00:18:01polls will decrease as the new party
00:18:04explains itself more, because I strongly believe
00:18:08that the voters have already
00:18:11decided whom to send.
00:18:15Now they are looking at who should come,
00:18:18but the AK Party cannot
00:18:21make itself the government
00:18:24again in this way. This is something I always say,
00:18:28how much I've used this phrase, but I'm right.
00:18:31If it wants to come back to power,
00:18:35it should not suppress, but rather implement
00:18:37law, democracy, democratic maturity,
00:18:41make institutions independent, and strengthen the parliament.
00:18:44Then it will be stronger and luckier.
00:18:47Look, last year in September, 420
00:18:51liters of diesel could be bought with the minimum wage. This
00:18:55year, only 200 liters can be bought with the minimum wage.
00:18:59I mean, I'm sorry, 350 liters. So now
00:19:03if you calculate from this, next year, if
00:19:06it continues like this, 200 liters, yes, next year,
00:19:10if it continues at this pace, unfortunately, the trend shows
00:19:13that. Do you remember, I'm going to say something, one second,
00:19:17Mr. Şükrü, one second. When Mr. Özel was the CHP leader,
00:19:21before he left the CHP, in the group meeting, he showed
00:19:2450 lira of gasoline to a citizen who said, "I always
00:19:28buy 50 lira worth of diesel." Shall we watch those images? Look,
00:19:31on that day, you could get this with 50 lira.
00:19:35To them.
00:19:45What did he say when they said there was a price hike? "It doesn't concern me, I always buy 50 lira worth." Here's 50 lira worth of diesel for you, here's 50 lira worth of diesel for you.
00:19:47Oh,
00:19:50the bottle is full. Now,
00:19:53it's half.
00:19:56He's probably laughing if he's watching now. So now,
00:20:00it's not even that, that's good. It was full, madam.
00:20:04You know Germany and England, who are jealous of us?
00:20:07The minimum wage earner there can buy 1200 liters,
00:20:11did you know? Yes. 1200
00:20:14liters. I'm looking, yes, currently
00:20:17300 liters can be bought with the current minimum
00:20:20wage. So, of course,
00:20:23at this point, things have gotten out of control.
00:20:27Things are completely out of whack. It's not
00:20:31at a stage where it can be easily rectified. The government,
00:20:35as we understand it, is not attributing this
00:20:38solely to geopolitical risks and ongoing wars, but
00:20:42it's a fact that
00:20:45it has deepened more than ever before.
00:20:49But they were saying this in September, that a much more
00:20:52serious crisis would be faced. Our intention is not
00:20:56to paint a pessimistic picture here. We're trying
00:20:59to understand when
00:21:02the light at the end of the tunnel will appear,
00:21:05how these conditions can
00:21:08change in Turkey, how citizens' purchasing
00:21:11power can increase, and how inflation can be curbed,
00:21:14right? I mean, our goal is not to draw such a pessimistic
00:21:18picture here and say, "oh, we're finished, we're ruined," but to understand
00:21:22what will happen, where this is going. Please, Ercüment. Well,
00:21:25I said it in the previous part too, this country has seen a lot of difficulties.
00:21:29It saw the 1980 military coup, it saw the January 24
00:21:32decisions, it saw huge privatizations, it saw huge
00:21:36prohibitions. were closed, May 1st
00:21:39was forbidden. These were overcome, they can be overcome. It came out of that
00:21:43darkness. It didn't happen in a day or a year, but people fought,
00:21:46came together, reopened their unions,
00:21:50went to the streets, and liberated the spaces. So, there is no
00:21:54need to be pessimistic. To be hopeful,
00:21:57it's useful to look at our own history.
00:22:00The light at the end of the tunnel can be that.
00:22:04People need to trust their own strength a little. It's not the time
00:22:06to despair, to retreat into
00:22:10an atmosphere of fear and helplessness. And there's this: why
00:22:13so much pressure, I wonder?
00:22:15Where can this lead? Can it lead
00:22:19to a social explosion? If it's not organized,
00:22:22if it's not disciplined, if it doesn't have a democratic
00:22:25tradition, if it doesn't have a trade union tradition,
00:22:29it can emerge as indignant explosions. In quotation marks, I say,
00:22:32it can also emerge as more uncontrolled and more lumpen
00:22:36social movements, again in quotation marks. It would be a pity
00:22:39for the country, the country is not going
00:22:41in a good direction. That's why we need to
00:22:45act now, there is a need for a struggle approach
00:22:49where democratic, organized, union-backed parties
00:22:52also find strength there. I would like to say something
00:22:56about the graphics you showed in the previous
00:22:59section regarding the elections. I said
00:23:02it in one of the previous programs on Halk TV,
00:23:05that I am immune to these poll issues,
00:23:09they change a lot, and they will change even more.
00:23:13I mean, when I look at the operations, arrests,
00:23:16and access blocks of the last few days, I ask myself
00:23:20this: how do these polling companies conduct
00:23:23their surveys and publish their research?
00:23:27They called 2,000 people, they called 5,000 people.
00:23:30Can these people who were called easily say "I am voting
00:23:33for the opposition party" now, compared to a month
00:23:36ago, two months ago, three months ago? People are afraid. I think
00:23:40it doesn't reflect the truth much from that
00:23:42perspective either. No public research company's
00:23:45work, no poll, can truly be
00:23:48a reference we can vouch for.
00:23:52There's also this situation now: don't believe the polls,
00:23:55stay away from the polls. I always make this parenthesis:
00:23:59if you fall into a power intoxication thinking "we've got this,"
00:24:03the opposition will lose. They always need to take it seriously and work
00:24:07hard. This is a separate dimension, but I agree
00:24:10with Mr. Şükrü there. There's a perception for Erdoğan:
00:24:14how many elections has he won with his party? The citizen
00:24:18says, "you will kiss the arm you cannot bend."
00:24:20But all these municipal takeovers, changes of hands, transfers,
00:24:24was that arm bent? Can't he take it? Why is he doing this?
00:24:28I think this is not a good situation
00:24:31for the AK Party either. It's a situation that further
00:24:35diminishes its prestige towards the elections.
00:24:38I mean, even the economies of countries at war
00:24:41are not as bad
00:24:44as ours right now. So this is
00:24:47what's really bad. I mean, we looked
00:24:50the other day, in terms of food inflation, we're worse
00:24:53than Iran, which is at war, worse than fragmented
00:24:57Iraq. How can you be? The man is in pieces.
00:25:00There's also this, let me add something, Ms. Sinema, you reminded me well.
00:25:04So, what was Turkey's geopolitical foreign policy equation always
00:25:07like? It always paid attention to balances
00:25:11between the West, Eurasia, and the Middle East, trying to maintain good relations
00:25:14with everyone, one way or another, right? You have a trade volume
00:25:18with Iran,
00:25:20you have a certain energy supply from the Gulf,
00:25:23Russian natural gas, Ukrainian grain. Now it has entered
00:25:27such a situation, especially with the NATO summit,
00:25:31it has moved towards a single axis, and relations with Russia
00:25:35it's being shot, your situation with Iran isn't like before, now the Mecca
00:25:39tripartite summit has been held. So what will happen to Saudi
00:25:41Arabia? An interesting point was mentioned there, I don't know if it was
00:25:45necessary, I mean, like NATO's Article 5, if one of the three countries
00:25:48is attacked. All countries will be involved. Now Saudi
00:25:52Arabia is entering the Yemen War, withdrawing, asking for help from Israel. So what
00:25:55will Turkey do? So, these
00:25:59balances are also being shaken, these affecting the economy.
00:26:02I think they are affecting it more negatively. Yes, but sir, I mean, with the effect
00:26:06of the war, the Central Bank is burning 30 billion dollars,
00:26:10but Mr. Ekrem İmamoğlu's March 19 operation
00:26:13and afterwards burned 60 billion dollars. So,
00:26:17with such an effect in the war,
00:26:21we see 30 billion on the foreign front, but here, in a legal
00:26:25event, against an illegality, we are paying 60 billion.
00:26:28We are paying this with Mehmet Şimşek. Since he first
00:26:32came, with a tight monetary policy, for two years, he has been trying
00:26:35to bring it to a certain level. With the March
00:26:3919 operation, perhaps you are going back two years.
00:26:41are affecting the economy.
00:26:45I think it affects it more negatively. Yes, but sir, with the effect
00:26:49of the war, the Central Bank
00:26:52burns 30 billion dollars,
00:26:56but Mr. Ekrem İmamoğlu's March 19 operation
00:26:59and afterwards burns 60 billion dollars. So,
00:27:04with such an effect in the war,
00:27:08we see 30 billion on the foreign front, but here, in a legal
00:27:11event, against an illegality, we are paying 60 billion.
00:27:15We are paying this with Mehmet Şimşek. Since he first came, with a tight monetary
00:27:18policy, for two years, he has been trying to bring it to a certain level. With the March
00:27:2219 operation, perhaps you are going back
00:27:26two years. Now, that's ending. Perhaps you are saying
00:27:29we will try to fix that in 6-7 months, then the absolute nullification
00:27:33decision comes. I mean, as long as these continue,
00:27:37and now we are talking about law, predictability, law,
00:27:39there is a control mechanism. Now, we are talking about these taxes,
00:27:43right? For days, what's in the public eye? A guy from Van,
00:27:47a Van Haydar. No income is shown,
00:27:50no company exists, but there is a money
00:27:53transfer of 212 million. How are we auditing
00:27:57this? Let's skip the political part, the trials.
00:28:01And how are we doing the actual audit mechanism?
00:28:05While just 1-2% of Turkey is playing with
00:28:08millions, hundreds of millions, the other side
00:28:11is struggling with hunger. Are we auditing those hundreds
00:28:14of millions? Is it when the "above the sieve"
00:28:18section's source of money, and how these came to be,
00:28:22only appears on social media that we see it?
00:28:25I mean, if someone with the same income,
00:28:29the same ostentation, didn't use a social media
00:28:32account, and we didn't see these on social media,
00:28:36would these continue like this in the country? Will we audit them
00:28:40this way? With this audit, we can't
00:28:43prevent tax loss, we can't prevent tax
00:28:46evasion loss. We talk about opposition to the tax procedure
00:28:50law, about black money, but these can't
00:28:53be collected. While struggling, we suddenly say that
00:28:57the 20% VAT has been increased
00:29:00there, the overseas departure
00:29:07fee has been increased, and again, it's the minimum wage earner
00:29:11or someone trying to make a living with a normal wage who suffers.
00:29:14So, what we call law, fully, criminal law is a separate
00:29:18matter, but we also need to talk about public law, tax
00:29:21law. We need to make all of them work together
00:29:24in a healthy way so that this economy
00:29:27recovers and yields results in the future.
00:29:30But if we are in such an unmanageable
00:29:34situation both in terms of taxes
00:29:38and... then the outcome is that
00:29:41the situation gets worse. By the way, the Yeni Şafak
00:29:44newspaper, for a long time, has been
00:29:47against Şimşek. A prosecutor, Sayan,
00:29:50said today that AKP's prosecutor
00:29:54Sayan said, "Don't expect much
00:29:58from Mehmet Şimşek. His thing is to make the rich
00:30:01richer and the poor poorer." He said this is his style.
00:30:05Abou, I said. Abou, I said Yeni Şafak.
00:30:08His suggestion was always this: why do only companies
00:30:12pay taxes for foreign currency? Apply this to all citizens,
00:30:15individuals, citizens. I didn't take it very seriously
00:30:19in these media analyses, readings, etc., but they are very
00:30:22cornered, so I think they might consider these
00:30:26options, these possibilities.
00:30:30It's not impossible. I also want to contribute.
00:30:33When Mr. Ertürç mentioned it,
00:30:36I remembered. Look,
00:30:39after March 25th, or rather, after the March
00:30:4319th coup, in the opposition's
00:30:46words, interest rates,
00:30:50bond interest, and
00:30:53loan interest were 10 points
00:30:56above what they should have been when compared to inflation.
00:30:59It's such a large number because
00:31:03of this: "This year alone, the interest
00:31:07that the public will pay is 2.7
00:31:10trillion lira. Next year, this is projected
00:31:14to be 4 trillion lira. The interest
00:31:16that the private sector will pay is many
00:31:20times more than this. So, currently, both
00:31:24bond and loan interest rates
00:31:27are over 50%, and the increase since
00:31:30that operation has been 10 points. There
00:31:34is no decline at all. That's why,
00:31:37we always say law, that's why we say opposition.
00:31:40I mean, it's not possible for the New Party,
00:31:44the Republican People's Party, or other opposition
00:31:48parties to be a means of support for us. But
00:31:51if these are harming the country's economy
00:31:54and democracy, then we also
00:31:58have to take a side in this,
00:32:01we must. I mean,
00:32:04this ethical obligation exists for journalists.
00:32:08As you know, for example, I want to give another example. Unfortunately,
00:32:11in its 25 years of power,
00:32:15it could not create good examples in agriculture
00:32:19and livestock. I mean, 15 years ago,
00:32:21Turkey's grain
00:32:25production was 16 million tons, and Russia's
00:32:29was also 16 million. Yes, 20
00:32:32million, I think. No, both were 16
00:32:35million tons. Today, Russia is 80 million
00:32:39tons, Turkey is 20 million
00:32:42tons. I always give this example. Some people tell me, "Russia
00:32:46has a large area." We were the same then. Let's
00:32:49skip its area. Ukraine is 35 million
00:32:52tons. What are we boasting about? We are boasting about being a grain
00:32:56corridor. No. Turkey could easily have been one
00:33:00of the world's most important grain silos.
00:33:03For example, during the AK Party government,
00:33:07your Konya was like that, for example,
00:33:10it was one of the world's largest grain depots, of course, of course.
00:33:13For example, Mr. Ercüment, you know better.
00:33:16The evacuated villages
00:33:20were villages where livestock breeding and agriculture were very
00:33:24strong, especially livestock breeding. During the AK Party government,
00:33:26I think these areas should have been brought
00:33:30back to livestock breeding. But such a policy
00:33:33and... such a priority was never pursued.
00:33:37That's why we even started seeing imported meat
00:33:41in Erzurum. I mean, it's a surprising
00:33:45situation for Turkey. These also happened
00:33:48during the AK Party government, and seriously, I'll tell
00:33:52you, like their own slogan, "If AK Party does it, it does it,"
00:33:55there are so many bad examples in law, in democracy,
00:33:58in trials, in livestock breeding,
00:34:02in agriculture, that it's really like, "If
00:34:05AK Party does it, it does it." I'll say something,
00:34:08I want to interrupt. Now, you know. Okay,
00:34:11you say, "If AK Party does it, it does it," but now
00:34:15the pressure that AK Party has applied on the opposition
00:34:19for the last year and a half, the operations against
00:34:22municipalities, the trustee politics, the transfer
00:34:26of council members, their detention
00:34:29or arrest from time to time, you know,
00:34:33last week, AK Party won the Foça Municipality,
00:34:37for which it didn't even nominate a candidate,
00:34:39with the transfer of the female mayor. However,
00:34:43I just said it was very interesting. Council members are being talked
00:34:46about more than ever before. Ms. Yağmur, if I'm not
00:34:50mistaken, look at the beautiful
00:34:51speech she gave
00:34:54at the Izmir Metropolitan Municipality Council meeting.
00:34:58Can we listen? Did you see these as something
00:35:01to be celebrated? You took the places that the people
00:35:04did not appreciate and give to you, by pressing the mayor,
00:35:07by other means with the council member, in points where people
00:35:11did not give their votes to you, you counted those votes as taken
00:35:14through various ways and turned around and congratulated yourselves.
00:35:17Is this a success? I think this is at best
00:35:21helplessness. Now I want to ask, or by this means,
00:35:24you say you have taken those districts. Don't you think that when
00:35:27the day comes, the nation will take back what belongs to them
00:35:31from you? Don't you know, don't you see that the limit
00:35:34of what you can take
00:35:36remains in the conscience
00:35:39of the nation? Don't you hear the voices of the street
00:35:43at all? The nation whose votes you disregarded,
00:35:46who you disrespected, will hold you accountable
00:35:50for all of this, for denying national
00:35:53sovereignty. This nation, which you have impoverished
00:35:55despite all the wealth you have taken from its bridges,
00:35:59highways, and factories, will hold you accountable
00:36:03for this. But let everyone know, the curse
00:36:06of this noble nation will not go unpunished.
00:36:09The day will come when the short straw
00:36:12will demand its right from the long one and take it.
00:36:16You didn't waffle, you didn't ramble,
00:36:19you didn't say uh. Yağmur Yurdakul
00:36:22Özkan at the Izmir Metropolitan Municipality
00:36:26Council meeting. Do you think
00:36:29that the street will not ask for an account
00:36:32of this? Don't you hear
00:36:34the voice of the street at all?
00:36:38But we have been talking about this for a year and a half. Has the AK Party become
00:36:42too detached from the street? Doesn't
00:36:44it hear? Is the distance between
00:36:48it and the people increasing every day?
00:36:51Well, I think so. I think its organizations have also
00:36:55become detached, Ms. Sinem. Because they are watching
00:36:58what's happening in astonishment. What will they say
00:37:02to people on the street? Look, I attach great
00:37:06importance to this example, because they lost touch
00:37:10with the youth. Why wouldn't they lose touch?
00:37:14I mean, coffee shops are opening
00:37:17everywhere, especially regarding coffee, and young people
00:37:21really like it. They go there, study,
00:37:25socialize, and have opportunities
00:37:28to chat. They are also very nice places,
00:37:31but the cheapest coffee is 200 lira.
00:37:35200 lira.
00:37:39Okay, let me get
00:37:41a final assessment from Mr. Ercüment as
00:37:45we're slowly approaching the end.
00:37:49Let me tell you, it's this:
00:37:52now you've lost a municipality
00:37:56as the ruling party. You have
00:38:00organizations, you have branches, women's, youth
00:38:03organizations. What do you do?
00:38:06You work with all your might to win
00:38:10that place towards the election, you mobilize, right?
00:38:13Now, that would be the motivation. But
00:38:16if that place is taken through
00:38:20transfers, and if this path has been opened,
00:38:23or if it's being emptied and taken through
00:38:27arrests via the judiciary, then what's the point of working?
00:38:29It will come to us anyway. Therefore,
00:38:33he said something very good, true, why should
00:38:36I bother? I mean, there's no chance
00:38:40of me succeeding and being discovered from somewhere.
00:38:44I always warn the opposition not
00:38:47to fall into complacency, but I think the real
00:38:51complacency can appear in the ruling party's
00:38:54organizations. I mean, someone from the same
00:38:58organization works, enters the district from the youth
00:39:01branches, perhaps has a dream of becoming a mayor,
00:39:05then suddenly, with a transfer from the opposing party,
00:39:08a more valuable candidate is shown. And it happened
00:39:12a lot, but yes, I mean, if you look now, it's not
00:39:15just council members or mayors. MPs also
00:39:18came. Some of those MPs were given important
00:39:21positions in the general headquarters, like a vice
00:39:25chairman, like Kürşat Zorlu, for example. I mean,
00:39:28if a man who has worked in organizations for years
00:39:32suddenly has a dream of becoming a vice chairman
00:39:35at some point, then tough luck. And at
00:39:39some point, that person who became a vice chairman,
00:39:42or that person who became a mayor, spent years
00:39:45criticizing these people. I mean, in small
00:39:49places, especially in district politics, they engaged
00:39:52in personal animosities, in dialogues. Now, how
00:39:56will the voters accept
00:40:27to be ashamed of, in my opinion.
00:40:29Let me tell you something, do you remember when
00:40:33Menemen Municipality passed to the AK Party,
00:40:36the lady, I apologize, I can't remember
00:40:40her name, had a video conference with the President,
00:40:43and she said, "We believed and we won." For example,
00:40:46she believes she won that place. Yes,
00:40:50I mean, she thinks she actually entered
00:40:53an election there, a ballot box was placed
00:40:56there, and she came out successfully.
00:41:00I mean, it's an incredible thing, I mean, she says,
00:41:03"We believed," "We believed and we won."
00:41:07Yes, let me finish the sentence, from
00:41:11where you said, I mean, the situation
00:41:15on the side of the government is like this, there will
00:41:18be a more complacent situation, but on the opposition
00:41:22side, there is also a danger bell.
00:41:25Now, people
00:41:40slept on top of the election bags for days, of course,
00:41:58to hand over those wet signature
00:42:01records. I mean, what efforts
00:42:02were made, what sacrifices
00:42:11were made? Now, you elect
00:42:14a mayor, you elect council members,
00:42:18I mean, they are taking everything into account,
00:42:22I mean, they are taking
00:42:25everything into account, the voters, the citizens, the party
00:42:28members, but if you switch to
00:42:31that side overnight, then there can be very serious ruptures
00:42:35here. Next
00:42:41time, next time, there needs
00:42:44to be a filter, and there needs to be
00:42:47public oversight regarding candidacies, but also
00:42:51the public shouldn't be so easily...
00:42:54But we've always talked about this, especially
00:42:57for the past year during this transfer period, we've always
00:43:01evaluated this, Ercüment Akdeniz. I mean, will
00:43:05the voters say, when election day comes, "What's it
00:43:07to me, brother? I'm going,
00:43:10I'm voting, they're getting arrested. I'm going, I'm voting,
00:43:13they're getting transferred. I'm going, I'm voting"?
00:43:55But politically, there's a weariness. The trustee
00:43:59practice is evident. Look, previously, HDP,
00:44:02now DEM, how many trustees came? Three.
00:44:06People think, if that's pressure,
00:44:09"Even if it's only for 3 days, I'll go and take it."
00:44:12They had trained about 6,000 ballot
00:44:15observers. All but 10,000
00:44:19had switched to the new party. So, actually, it's
00:44:22good to see that the new party was
00:44:25quite prepared in this regard.
00:44:29You also, I guess, had a contribution.
00:44:32I was just going to add, when you say transfer,
00:44:36it also reminds one of football.
00:44:40Now, we said, will these transfers make us think,
00:44:43"Let's not vote in these elections"? I wanted to
00:44:46give an example from football. Fenerbahçe had a match
00:44:50two weeks ago. Fenerbahçe hasn't been to the Champions
00:44:53League for 18 years. It went, my dear, now it's
00:44:57complete. That's what I'm saying, there wasn't an empty seat
00:45:01in the stadium during the match. Even after 18 years,
00:45:04people believed, and Fenerbahçe is now in the Champions
00:45:08League. Well, this example you gave from football
00:45:11really applies to politics too. Transfers, of course,
00:45:15evoke that. Thank you very much, lawyer Ertunç Özyalçın,
00:45:19journalist Ercüment Akdeniz. Thank you, and my journalist
00:45:23colleague Şükrü Küçükşahin presented.
00:45:27to become members of a political party
00:45:30they had opposed for years. Here,
00:45:34we are already shouting that there is both
00:45:37a threat and an incentive. Furthermore, if we look
00:45:41at the last Üsküdar elections, two more
00:45:45council members there, although they remained
00:45:48in the Republican People's Party, voted for the
00:45:52AK Party candidate. Let's say these friends
00:45:55thought the same thing. Did they not have enough
00:45:58time to switch to the AK Party, or did the AK Party
00:46:02not have enough votes to win the Üsküdar elections,
00:46:05so they needed to threaten or incentivize more people? These
00:47:23are all very clear. All of these are already
00:47:26very clear. Let's get to the issue
00:47:30regarding our convention. Our
00:47:33friends, in the convention indictment,
00:47:36had such photos, convention photos taken, circled
00:47:39in red. Look, they were
00:47:43next to Özgür Özel at the convention,
00:47:46and now they've become council members.
00:47:48A big crime. This was shown as a crime.
00:47:52How? Özgür Özel promised
00:47:55that he would win the convention, and after
00:47:59winning the convention, he would make them council
00:48:02members. This was political bribery.
00:48:05It was also against the Political Parties
00:48:08Law. Someone in his own
00:48:11party, because they walk with him,
00:48:14yes, he might consider placing them somewhere.
00:48:18This is natural in politics, at the same time,
00:48:21our minds inevitably recall the 38th
00:48:25convention. There was a lawsuit filed and
00:48:29a decision of absolute nullification, with the
00:48:32claim and accusation that the wills of the delegates
00:48:35were crippled. Now, what exactly was crippled
00:48:39here, I couldn't understand. I would appreciate it
00:48:42if you could explain. I was actually
00:48:45going to start from there. Let's say
00:48:49what we would say at the end at the beginning.
00:48:53Only 4 council members in Üsküdar decided
00:48:57to switch from the CHP to the AKP.
00:49:00So, there is no crippling of will,
00:49:04no offer, no incentive, nothing.
00:49:07It's just a coincidence that four separate
00:49:10individuals suddenly decided to resign
00:49:13from the Republican People's Party Council
00:49:16membership at the same time. Suddenly,
00:49:20they found themselves in a political drift,
00:49:24and what a coincidence that they all decided
00:49:27to reunite in the same place. Either
00:49:31these four separate people internalized this,
00:49:34experienced it without any incentive, any threat,
00:49:38and suddenly decided
00:49:40arkadaşlarımız
00:49:43kurultay iddianamesinde böyle fotoğrafları kurultay
00:49:46fotoğrafları çekilerek, böyle kırmızı yuvarlaklar içerisine
00:49:50alınarak fotoğrafları. Bakın
00:49:52kurultayda Özgür Özel'in yanındaymış, şimdi Meclis
00:49:56üyesi olmuş. Büyük suç. Bu
00:50:00suç olarak gösterildi. Nasıl? Özgür
00:50:02Özel kurultayı kazanacağını, kurultayı
00:50:06kazandıktan sonra kendisini meclis üyesi yapacağını
00:50:10taahüt etmiş. Bu siyasi rüşvetmiş. Siyasi
00:50:14partiler kanununa da aykırıymış. Kendi
00:50:17partisindeki birisi kendisiyle yol yürüyor diye,
00:50:20evet bir yerde değerlendirmeyi. düşünebilir, zaten siyasetin
00:50:24doğasında bu vardır, insanlar beraber yol yürüdükleri insanlarla
00:50:27siyasette devam etmek isterler, kaldı ki siz
00:50:30bunu bir suç olarak göreceksiniz,
00:50:33dahası bizim daha yeni tahliye olan meclis
00:50:36üyemiz kurultay delegesi dahili
00:50:39olamadı, bakın kurultay delegesi dahili
00:50:43olamadığı halde, çünkü il seçimlerinde
00:50:46farklı adayları desteklemişlerdi, ya
00:50:49cezaevinden yeni çıktı, kurultay delegesi bile değildi rüşvet
00:50:53vermiş, meclis üyesi yapmış, kurultay delegesi olmayan birisine niye rüşvet verdi
00:50:56Özgür Özel dedik, bu insanlar durduk yeri
00:51:00ceza evlerinde kalıyor, yazıktır, günahtır dedik, buradan
00:51:03yola çıkarak bir kişinin gözaltına
00:51:06alınması, tutuklanması, bir kişinin bile bir gün bir saat özgürlüğünden
00:51:10mahrum bırakılması zaten kabul edilecek bir şey değil ama buradan
00:51:13103 yıllık partiye kayyum atadılar, ya
00:51:16cumhuriyet halk partisi'ne kayyum atandı buradan bu
00:51:19people want to continue
00:51:22in politics with those they walk with. Moreover,
00:51:26you will consider this a crime.
00:51:29Furthermore, our council member who was
00:51:33just released from prison couldn't even become
00:51:37a convention delegate. Look, even though
00:51:40he couldn't even become a convention delegate,
00:51:43because they had supported different candidates in the provincial elections.
00:51:47He just got out of prison. He wasn't even a convention
00:51:50a member says, they offered me another... Deputy position, and I said yes.
00:51:54What is this? Is this not political bribery?
00:51:58Let me tell you, I think
00:52:01this is the most innocent incident that Tahsin Usta
00:52:05recounted in Üsküdar. I think it's the most innocent incident.
00:52:09Saying "come, I'll make you a deputy mayor" to offer political
00:52:12bribery, if you could appoint a trustee
00:52:16to the 103-year-old Republican People's Party,
00:52:19then re-elections in Üsküdar are not enough.
00:52:22You should bring the same offer
00:52:26you applied now.
00:52:29Just as you took the council member in,
00:52:33then take Mr. Tahsin. For the same reason, for violating
00:52:36the Political Parties Law, for the same
00:52:39reason, ask Mr. Tahsin, "Who made this offer to you,
00:52:42brother?" How did this happen? When
00:52:45making a choice between two candidates within the party can be considered
00:52:49such a crime, is it not a crime to switch to another
00:52:52party and make the municipality elected by the people win for
00:52:56a party they didn't elect? Will they ask Mr. Tahsin
00:53:00"Who did it?" If there was such a rumor
00:53:03in any municipality of the Republican People's Party or today's
00:53:07new party, prosecutors would immediately be called to duty.
00:53:10Immediately, even before being called,
00:53:14prosecutors would take this as their duty and start. Why is this not asked
00:53:17to Mr. Tahsin? It's not asked because
00:53:20we know this. We also know the reason for the second
00:53:23and third operations in Üsküdar. There will be no more operations
00:53:27in Üsküdar. They already got what they wanted.
00:53:31But today in the last
00:53:35elections, our candidate, Ms. Sibel, made a speech in the IBB council.
00:53:39I was able to listen to it today. I don't know if she did it today or if it came
00:53:43across me today. She said,
00:53:46yes, you can enter a municipality, you can sit
00:53:49in office, you can even
00:53:53sign documents, and those signatures can be official signatures,
00:53:56very true. But you cannot win the heart of a city
00:54:00with decrees, she said you cannot enter the heart of a city. But
00:54:02we also don't think that there are any concerns
00:54:06about creating social consensus for a citizen. I mean,
00:54:09is there really a concern about creating social consent in the citizen or has that threshold already been crossed?
00:54:12Let's get to that in a bit, Mr. Dünder. Now,
00:54:16this confession, actually, Mr. Usta's
00:54:19statement, let me say, not confession,
00:54:21is clearer and more distinct
00:54:25than the allegations that led to the annulment
00:54:28of the CHP's general assembly, meaning absolute annulment.
00:54:32A very clear statement: "Deputy mayor."
00:54:35Now, what kind of move would you expect from the Turkish
00:54:38judiciary, which has ruled for annulment, regarding this?
00:54:41What should actually happen? Of course,
00:54:44in an ideal situation, citizens
00:54:47and the public would expect
00:54:50a similar action to be taken
00:54:54for Üsküdar in a legal
00:54:56system where the rule of law prevails. Also,
00:54:59Mr. Tahsin may have let it slip
00:55:03inadvertently. He says, I believe
00:55:07Ms. Sinem Dedetaş
00:55:09did not do the dirty
00:55:12work that was directed
00:55:15at her. He says, I wouldn't even attribute such a thing to her. He says, "I wouldn't
00:55:19attribute it." This means, in his
00:55:23eyes, Sinem Nedetaş, the currently imprisoned mayor of Üsküdar,
00:55:26is a clean mayor, an innocent mayor.
00:55:29He also makes such a confession. Therefore,
00:55:32if we look at another aspect
00:55:36of the issue, these municipal council members,
00:55:39okay, they change parties for one reason or another,
00:55:43but the voters didn't vote for them
00:55:47to take office in the parties they went to;
00:55:50they voted for them to be in opposition.
00:55:54Doing such a thing without the consent
00:55:57of the voters is, in my opinion, ethically
00:56:01extremely wrong. You'll
00:56:03say, what's left, but we must
00:56:07defend ethical values to the end.
00:56:09Look, today,
00:56:12Foça, a district where the Justice
00:56:15and Development Party didn't even
00:56:19enter the elections, won the mayoralty there.
00:56:23But what happened next? The mayor
00:56:26is the host at the ceremonies
00:56:30held on September 11, the anniversary of Foça's liberation.
00:56:34The shopkeepers
00:56:43in Sent Pazarı protested, meaning
00:56:45the direction of the politician is actually
00:56:49determined
00:56:51by the people, by the voters who
00:56:55cast their votes for him. If the voters
00:56:58assign him a direction, and he goes
00:57:01in the opposite direction, then
00:57:05it means that politician's life,
00:57:08I think, is coming to an end.
00:57:11Because every action
00:57:14taken against the will of the voters
00:57:17is a very important factor that prepares the end
00:57:21of that politician. They will probably
00:57:24not get votes from the Justice and Development Party voters
00:57:27anymore, because I am
00:57:30speaking, and conscientious Justice and Development Party voters
00:57:33do not accept this. They say,
00:57:37"We must win a mayoralty and that municipality's
00:57:40council with our votes, given by our free will.
00:57:44Otherwise, such behaviors
00:57:47do not conform to our morals
00:57:49and do not meet our expectations. Therefore, they say,
00:57:53we never approve." I have friends in Üsküdar,
00:57:57for example; I talk to them, and they evaluate it this way.
00:58:00Therefore, Mr. Gökçek compared it
00:58:03to the annulment case.
00:58:06It's very clear, of course. The evidence
00:58:10here is very clear, very obvious,
00:58:12it's a confession. The other
00:58:15is annulment, annulment. Allegation, allegation, allegation. Here,
00:58:19confession. Exactly, and there's another thing.
00:58:23Is it forbidden for AK Party, according to the law,
00:58:26or for CHP or the new party
00:58:29to persuade a delegate or a council member? I mean, when you
00:58:32set out to persuade a delegate, you are corrupting
00:58:36the will, you are crippling the will. But when
00:58:39the AK Party's Istanbul Provincial Directorate or District Directorate
00:58:43tries to do this by pressing a button, would a promise
00:58:47of political office be ethical? No, why would it be? For example,
00:58:50when the İyi Party was entering the elections, it brought Bilge Yılmaz
00:58:54from a serious university in the United States.
00:58:57It said, "If we come to power, I want to entrust the economy to you."
00:59:01And the man came. Is this political bribery? I mean,
00:59:04when you, as a political party official or leader,
00:59:08say who you will work with and what duties you will distribute
00:59:11when you come to power, can this be considered political bribery? Can such a thing happen? No,
00:59:15on the contrary, it's a guarantee for the voter. Of course, it's about the voter.
00:59:19You're providing inner peace and comfort
00:59:22for the voter to feel secure with people
00:59:26you trust deeply. You're giving them something,
00:59:30inner peace, inner comfort. This is very important.
00:59:33But a little while ago, before the program,
00:59:36while chatting with dear Uğur Abi, I said that this Üsküdar
00:59:40incident is actually a milestone in Turkish political history.
00:59:44Perhaps I may have said it in the last program too, I'm still of the same opinion.
00:59:47For example, I'll explain it very quickly,
00:59:51so that our dear viewers don't get confused by the numbers,
00:59:54who left, who came, who left, who came, and can follow the chronology.
00:59:58A contractor complains. Sinem Dedetaş, the Mayor
01:00:01of Üsküdar, is first detained based on a contractor's complaint,
01:00:04then arrested. There's no conviction
01:00:07yet, nothing, but since arrest has turned into a punishment
01:00:11in Turkey, she's immediately arrested and sent to prison.
01:00:14What will happen to the prison? The deputy mayor, Ms. Sibel, is elected
01:00:18as the deputy mayor. Objections to the deputy mayor
01:00:21are immediately accepted by the court, and then voting begins.
01:00:24There are 28 council members, plus the mayor, makes 29.
01:00:27They lose one, it drops to 27. What happens next is very interesting.
01:00:30After 27, three are arrested,
01:00:34I mean, detained. Two are arrested,
01:00:36except for one. In between, 4 resignations.
01:00:40In between, 4 resignations. Those who resign confess themselves.
01:00:44They say, "You know, they said in the pavilions, in the hotels,
01:00:47for the CHP's congress, we stayed in a hotel for 3 days."
01:00:50You know, they had missed Turan at Galatasaray.
01:00:54They had kept him in a hotel like they would abduct a football player
01:00:57before a transfer contract. Exactly, like abducting a football player
01:01:01in the 70s, they take him to a hotel. He himself says it.
01:01:05He himself says it. In fact, his exact statement is this,
01:01:08teacher, let's elaborate a little. He says, "I was following
01:01:12all developments in Trabzon, I had gone to pick hazelnuts.
01:01:15I came back and found myself in a hotel in Izmit.
01:01:19A state official was waiting over us." He says, "There was security over us.
01:01:22Even my wife didn't know, she was very angry." So much secrecy,
01:01:26like an operation to kidnap a US President
01:01:30in movies. I mean, you're just a council member,
01:01:34what police, what hotel, what protection, one feels like saying, but
01:01:37when you look at the result, of course, we are saying
01:01:41this based on this statement. Did they leave the hotel,
01:01:44did they travel, did they say "come, let's go"? We are saying this based on their statement that they stayed in a hotel.
01:01:48So this is not a good thing.
01:01:51But in between, while the very interesting votings continued,
01:01:55as you know, it ended 21-21. The voting was postponed.
01:01:59During the postponement, such
01:02:02arrests happen to prevent them from voting.
01:02:06I mean, it turned into an arrest after the detention period.
01:02:09They coordinate those dates in such a way as
01:02:12to prevent those in detention from voting. I mean, everything
01:02:16has been calculated with delicate political engineering. Conversely, there's something else
01:02:20that's strange. While the votes were being cast, two more people, who had not
01:02:24resigned at all, supposedly had no contact
01:02:27with the AK Party, two people who appeared to be CHP council members,
01:02:30voted for the Justice and Development Party during the voting.
01:02:34Now, of course, if they are new party members,
01:02:37the new party members should also think, "How did we make these
01:02:40people council members? Should we examine and scrutinize
01:02:44more carefully from now on?" This is a lesson for the new party.
01:02:47But after listening to
01:02:50Mr. Tahsin's speeches,
01:02:53he says, "This deputy mayor is political
01:02:57bribery." Because if
01:03:00you start out in the same party, for example, I'm the general
01:03:04chairman, I'll say, "Ali, we'll work together, Ali Gökçek, come, let's work,
01:03:07because we'll make you a general chairman responsible for local governments,"
01:03:11or "we'll make you a minister," that's something else. But
01:03:15when you say to someone from another party,
01:03:18"You appear to be from them, come to my side," this is political
01:03:22immorality, a political betrayal,
01:03:25call it what you will. When you look
01:03:29at it, the court... for example, this is actually absolute
01:03:32annulment, because you are sitting down
01:03:36for a negotiation to corrupt an election
01:03:39that has been won, using methods
01:03:42outside of all political and moral
01:03:46values and norms. Just like
01:03:49the Justice and Development Party said about the CHP, "You abducted
01:03:53people in pavilions, dollars flew around."
01:03:57But what will happen if there's an objection? Let me tell you now.
01:04:00The election is over. The court will say, "Well, it
01:04:04would have been 23 to 20, or 22 to 20.
01:04:08When one person is moved from there to here, the result doesn't change." It will reject it.
01:04:11But this is important for going down in political
01:04:14history, that if you said "absolute annulment" for a grand
01:04:18103-year-old party, then here in a district,
01:04:21with some variations beyond absolute annulment,
01:04:24social consent, I even remembered last week,
01:04:27I said that it's as if the Justice and Development Party is saying,
01:04:31"From now on, we want to govern not with consent, but with defect."
01:04:35So a defect is created, and with that defect,
01:04:38one way or another, it's already,
01:04:41with these transitions, transfers, arrests,
01:04:44and trustees, the balance that was 26 to 13
01:04:47after the March 31, 2024 elections has changed.
01:04:51When you look at the district level, the AK Party is the majority in Istanbul.
01:04:54And what is being talked about? Is this the gradual implementation
01:04:57of a plan targeting the IBB? We made eye contact,
01:05:01I think you wanted to add something. I find
01:05:05the Justice and Development Party in power winning mayoralties through
01:05:09such methods
01:05:11extremely negative for the image of the government.
01:05:15Doesn't it show a dilemma?
01:05:19A political party led by Tayyip Bey, who is a master
01:05:21politician and calculates the pulse of the people very
01:05:24well, especially when
01:05:28it's in power,
01:05:30should not need such methods, I think.
01:05:34Also, I must say this:
01:05:37I have not attended any event
01:05:40of Üsküdar Municipality until today.
01:05:43I have not spoken with Ms. Sinem.
01:05:46However, one Sunday, we were sitting
01:05:50in a restaurant cafe within
01:05:53the boundaries of Beykoz Municipality. It was packed,
01:05:56people were having brunch. Ms. Sinem
01:06:00was also sitting with her family
01:06:03at one end of the very long cafe. Believe me,
01:06:07more than 80%
01:06:11of the people there went
01:06:14and took photos with Ms. Sinem one by one.
01:06:17I am speaking based on my observation,
01:06:21she is one of the politicians, one of the mayors,
01:06:24who has great public support.
01:06:27And I claim,
01:06:31if they release her from prison today, and a fair election
01:06:34is held in Üsküdar where the ballot boxes
01:06:38are protected by everyone,
01:06:41by all political parties, Ms. Sinem will win there again.
01:06:45That observation, all these things, but it
01:06:49has turned into such a spiral. The continuation of these operations,
01:06:53the continuation of these transfers, while increasing the resistance
01:06:56of the opposition, of the social opposition,
01:07:00also increases the pressure of the government. There is no move
01:07:04that can be called a step back from either side.
01:07:07Now, today we learned that the election of the deputy mayor
01:07:10in Adalar will be cancelled, or rather, re-held.
01:07:14It inevitably comes to mind, is the Adalar municipality
01:07:17also in the pot, because there's a political
01:07:21storm starting with "shake up the municipalities," Ali Bey.
01:07:24You were also there during the Adalar elections. What happened there? Today I was in Adalar.
01:07:28Today,
01:07:30I also visited our deputy mayor,
01:07:34who resigned. They are trying
01:07:38to create a lot
01:07:39of speculation about him.
01:07:42Due to his problems, his sugar level actually reached 600.
01:07:46We wish him well, and he experienced serious
01:07:49health problems. Sugar rises with stress, by the way. Does he have stress? Of course.
01:07:53It's not easy to manage cities. Both the city
01:07:56and the city's problems, bureaucratic problems,
01:08:00and political crises, all these events
01:08:04have caused him distress. I wish him
01:08:08well again from here. You asked,
01:08:10"Is it targeting the IBB?" Let's look at it from the Üsküdar issue.
01:08:14Now, the Mayor is naturally an IBB
01:08:17council member. Let's see.
01:08:20You took Ms. Sinem, one vote.
01:08:24Okay. When you elect an AKP
01:08:28member in her place as deputy mayor,
01:08:31they will go to the IBB. That makes two votes
01:08:34for the IBB. You also arrested
01:08:37two IBB council members. That makes 4 votes.
01:08:41And also, in that last
01:08:4421-21 vote, one of the two people
01:08:48who voted for the AKP was an IBB council member.
01:08:50That makes 5. This is the calculation for the IBB balance.
01:08:54It's not just Üsküdar. Yes, there's a big
01:08:57calculation regarding Üsküdar, but you asked if it's targeting the IBB.
01:09:01The calculation is this simple. But
01:09:05let me tell you,
01:09:09because of that one IBB council member,
01:09:13I will object to my professor here. You said, professor,
01:09:16they need to examine and scrutinize carefully. You're right,
01:09:19you're absolutely right.
01:09:22But in 2024, council
01:09:26members and mayors are determined. And each of us,
01:09:30just like you would, paid attention to merit,
01:09:33looked at their education, looked at neighborhood balance.
01:09:36For example, we might not
01:09:39be able to list a council member from every neighborhood
01:09:42of Üsküdar, but most neighborhoods need to be represented.
01:09:46They also need to be represented according to the demographic structure of Üsküdar.
01:09:50You're forming a council. There should be an architect,
01:09:53maybe an accountant too. Politics also has its own dynamics.
01:09:57We write them according to what they allow.
01:10:00While doing this, for example,
01:10:03our deputy mayor of Şile
01:10:07switched to the AKP. What were we supposed to do?
01:10:10I apologize profusely, I received a warning from my director that we are having
01:10:14a problem with your microphone. Let me continue with Mithat Hoca in the meantime.
01:10:18So, Mithat Hoca, Ali Bey has made his introduction, but the political
01:10:22climate we live in is enough to make one wonder
01:10:24what's happening when a deputy mayor election will be repeated,
01:10:28whether by court order or by your own decision. So, in such a political climate,
01:10:32the election will be re-held in Adalar. Oh, why?
01:10:35Because of health reasons. It was re-held by a previous
01:10:38court order. The situation is clear. This election...
01:10:55Justice and Development Party Deputy Chairman
01:10:57Ali İhsan Yavuz, responsible for elections,
01:11:01said the other day that even if we held elections a week
01:11:05before the 2028 election, it would be considered an early election.
01:11:08However, I don't think the economy will be able to handle
01:11:12the normal election in 2028 a week before it.
01:11:16In a previous program, probably Ebru Baki's program,
01:11:19I said that in April or May,
01:11:22around October or November, even a snap election
01:11:26could happen in October or November.
01:11:29But it didn't happen, so I was wrong there,
01:11:33there was no snap election. My argument for that was
01:11:36that considering President Trump's perspective
01:11:39on the region, he would prefer
01:11:43to continue with Tayyip Erdoğan or that the Justice
01:11:46and Development Party and its leader remain in power
01:11:50in his conceptualizations and schemes for Turkey and the region.
01:11:53Therefore, I was saying that a snap election could happen
01:11:56before Trump's decline, as he would likely lose
01:12:00the Senate midterm elections in November, and before the economy
01:12:03gets worse. Now that it didn't happen,
01:12:07and the economy, in my opinion, will not be able
01:12:10to sustain this until 2028,
01:12:13so it could be in 2027. Now, let's say 2027.
01:12:16It will happen in October of 2027,
01:12:19so around this time next year, October or November.
01:12:23During that process, I imagine that the Justice
01:12:26and Development Party will have appointed
01:12:30its own mayor or deputy mayor for the Istanbul Metropolitan
01:12:32Municipality and will plan to proceed
01:12:36in those coordinates. I'm thinking this in my head.
01:12:39It might be true, it might not be, but...
01:12:55it shows that this is moving towards the metropolitan area. In fact,
01:12:58it should also be said that sometimes,
01:13:01one needs to refer to certain references
01:13:04in political science. Jürgen Habermas, I always say,
01:13:08in the distinction between legality and legitimacy,
01:13:11this is very important. If you give up consensus
01:13:15and consent and try to manage political
01:13:18dynamics only with court decisions,
01:13:22then that place is not governed by the consent of the people.
01:13:25It becomes a republic of cracks and actually turns into
01:13:28a government of the minority, he says. It seems to describe today's
01:13:32Turkey. You get a court decision from everywhere. Is it legal?
01:13:36Since there are courts, it is legal. But is it legitimate?
01:13:39It is not legitimate. For it to be legitimate,
01:13:43I, Uğur Abi, Ali Gökçek, and all the cameramen friends here must internalize it.
01:13:47If there's a problem with internalization,
01:13:50if there's a problem with accepting it, then there is a legitimacy problem there.
01:13:53Okay,
01:14:04you look, someone from Keçi comes out at night,
01:14:08the general chairman sends messages, gives negative answers,
01:14:11you know, the one in Afyon goes to the other side,
01:14:15Aydın becomes like that. I could list many more things,
01:14:19but I don't want to bother you. So there was a rush here,
01:14:22or certain factions within the party,
01:14:26certain individuals nominated different candidates.
01:14:29It seems there is no such homogeneity, no such meticulous
01:14:33scrutiny. But it's not the end of the world, let this be a lesson.
01:14:36Personally, if I were in this situation, I would say, "Yes, I'll do it differently next time."
01:14:40I would do that instead of objecting. Okay, Ali Bey, you stayed.
01:14:43Please, let me give an example with my professor again.
01:14:46A thief broke into our house yesterday, professor.
01:14:50He entered the house at night. I had locked the door from below.
01:14:53And you're saying, "You explained it today."
01:15:18Afyon group deputy. Look, this is my first term. I went to the parliament.
01:15:21No matter how much politics you do,
01:15:24there's a different bureaucracy there. There are things
01:15:27you need to learn. Who do you watch? Your group
01:15:31deputy chairmen sit in the front, right? You watch the group deputy chairmen.
01:15:35Where and how they intervene, they are masters of the internal order,
01:15:39how do they act? When I went to the parliament,
01:15:42Ms. Burcu was my group deputy chairman. Of course, in her term as group deputy chairman,
01:15:46in the weeks she was on duty in the parliament, the person I was trying to find out how it would be,
01:15:50that person went to AKP, now how can we
01:15:54filter?
01:15:57The thing is, these people, there were 4 rounds of voting, in the first round,
01:16:01two votes didn't come out, one vote went to AKP, so we came out as
01:16:0422 to 19 instead of 21 to 21,
01:16:08I'm sorry, we came out as 22 to 20,
01:16:11and it's clear who it is, our friend is clear,
01:16:15I mean, I went
01:16:18to our group room and was drinking tea at that time, we
01:16:21go in and out, we chat with our friends,
01:16:25those who use it come, I saw Mr. Onur's state,
01:16:28I was sad, I was really sad and I thought something bad would happen
01:16:32to him, I really thought he would have a heart attack
01:16:35related to his health, God forbid something would happen, I told him this too,
01:16:38I said Onur, I don't know what you went through,
01:16:42I don't know what you chose between,
01:16:46I said, brother, but you need to sit down and catch your breath, I'm
01:16:49afraid something will happen to you, I said, today
01:16:53he is open there. or he can remain silent, but
01:16:57no one does this
01:17:00like Tahsim Bey, Tahsim Bey, we passed, nothing
01:17:03happened, he's comfortable, he's digested it, there are also
01:17:07friends who do this without digesting it, I'm sad, but these people
01:17:11don't just pass with incentives, I mean, when you see
01:17:15that state of mind, yes, everyone expects
01:17:19a character, a stance, but I also felt sorry for the person
01:17:22I saw in front of me, honestly, maybe I will get a reaction from
01:17:26our voters, why are you softening things or why
01:17:29are you trying to empathize, they need
01:17:32to stand firm, they own the will of the nation, I sign
01:17:35under all of it, true, but I saw a person who was melted,
01:17:39whose will was gone, we need to be interested in how he was brought
01:17:42to that state, but when you look at it from one side, there are people
01:17:46like Fatma Hürriyet Kaplan, Sinem Dedetaş who say "pashas
01:17:49go", but what about the will, I mean, what about
01:17:53those who melt away? I agree with my esteemed professor
01:17:57from this perspective, in 2014, my children
01:18:00won good schools for their high school education,
01:18:04we went to Izmir, for a temporary period, that is, for their high school education.
01:18:08In a beautiful city, in the middle
01:18:11of a social way of life, so that
01:18:14they could study comfortably on the road,
01:18:18without wasting time in traffic, we went to Izmir,
01:18:21immediately a rumor was spread that Uğur Dünder
01:18:25came here to design the Republican People's Party.
01:18:28I have never had any involvement
01:18:31in active politics in my life.
01:18:35I do not have such an intention.
01:18:38No matter how much I said, I couldn't convince
01:18:42them, but in the end, my children's education finished,
01:18:46we came here, they studied abroad,
01:18:49they returned, I will get to this point, the people
01:18:53who said Uğur Dündar came to Izmir to design CHP
01:18:56nominated the mayor of Foça, and in the district
01:18:59where the Justice and Development Party did not enter the election,
01:19:03he naturally went to the Justice and Development Party, of course, I will say.
01:19:11Finally, let me say this, Mr. Uğur explained something very nice
01:19:14about Ms. Sinem, I also went to Beykoz to see
01:19:18what kind of interest there was, well,
01:19:21all of our friends who showed that interest to Ms. Sinem
01:19:24are now completely cursed, in quotation marks,
01:19:27by society, those people cannot walk
01:19:31in society anymore because Ms. Sinem,
01:19:35those who showed those reactions, that interest,
01:19:39will now show different reactions to
01:19:42these friends, the friends who do this
01:19:46should take this into account, especially to young
01:19:49friends, I say it even more, I will finish this period,
01:19:52I will close it, is the visible village such a village? I'm
01:19:56asking about the islands, I mean, we saw this film, we saw
01:19:59it in Üsküdar, we saw it in Bayrampaşa, we saw it
01:20:03in Menemen, we saw it everywhere, we are experienced, now if a
01:20:06deputy mayor election will be repeated in the Islands, the incident
01:20:10that happened yesterday or in Menemen comes to my mind, here too,
01:20:13transfers, I mean, like in films, kidnapping
01:20:17members, hotels, security, etc. could it happen? It's
01:20:20very new, so if I say something about it now,
01:20:24we will look at everything in the same way, then what we experienced in Üsküdar
01:20:28would seem baseless, what we experienced in Üsküdar was very
01:20:31real, if we experience it in the Islands, we will tell
01:20:34it with the same reality, but for now, I contacted our council
01:20:37members, there is no problem with them, we are
01:20:40standing where we are, only a decision
01:20:44had to be made due to a health issue, now a new friend, I wish
01:20:48Turkey wasn't in this situation so that we wouldn't have to
01:20:51talk about someone who left because of health problems saying
01:20:55"I can't do my job, let someone better do it", but you are
01:20:58right, but I also talked to our council members
01:21:02there, there is no such thing, I can
01:21:06say something. Well, we shouldn't act
01:21:09on an individual basis, because as I speak, of course,
01:21:12Ali Gökçek, the New Party's MP,
01:21:16will inevitably be on the defensive, but what I'm saying
01:21:19is actually not a criticism of a party,
01:21:23this could be another party tomorrow. What I'm saying is something
01:21:26else, for example, Uğur Abi said: the Justice and Development
01:21:29Party did not enter the election in Foça, the elected mayor
01:21:33in the place where it did not enter the election says, "you
01:21:36did not enter the election, but I will honor
01:21:39you and crown you." Öz Ağa Bey, who was the former
01:21:42mayor of a town, is protesting him, for example,
01:21:46sevgili Ali Gökçek mentioned Beykoz, as far
01:21:49as I know, it's not Beykoz, who brought him, why did they bring
01:21:52him? Alaattin Köselar was arrested, he was elected, he was elected on Monday,
01:21:55on Thursday he says he's joining AKP, can such a thing happen?
01:21:59Well, okay, there can be such rotten apples, but what I wanted
01:22:03to say here was something else, but there's no time, well, it's
01:22:06full like this. The minute is running out, the
01:22:10law on political parties needs to change, the mayor,
01:22:13the MP, the members should elect them,
01:22:16so that they will have a responsibility towards the society that elects them,
01:22:19so that they will be ashamed, as long as they are not elected,
01:22:23he says "the general chairman and my friends elected me", when
01:22:27he gets a few harsh messages on the phone, he says "it's done, it's gone", when
01:22:31someone sees him in the market, he says "aren't you ashamed, did you elect
01:22:34me, did you put me there?", we need to get rid of this, let the members elect.
01:22:44if it somehow becomes vacant, let the people elect again, we are also saying this, I mean, in this case, the real will
01:22:47of the people should manifest
01:22:50not only at the ballot box once every 5 years,
01:22:53but also in some elections before the ballot box,
01:22:56we say we will elect our district chairman, our provincial chairman,
01:23:00our general chairman with our members, all our members,
01:23:04that's what I'm trying to say, okay, now yesterday the Supreme Court.
01:23:20a letter saying it cannot be used arrived today, the New Party's MYK
01:23:23met and it was decided that the Constitutional Court's
01:23:26decision would be awaited, and the Chief Public Prosecutor's Office
01:23:29of the Court of Cassation needs to send a letter to the Constitutional
01:23:33Court by September 18th. Finally, Mr. Dünder also has such a blockade,
01:23:37that is, front after front, the inability to use the name,
01:23:41can such a change, such a modification, be made
01:23:44mandatory again? On the one hand,
01:23:47it is spread over time.
01:23:50spread over a certain calendar and if there is a snap election
01:23:54during that time, will the new party not be able to enter the election?
01:23:58Very advanced questions are coming now, I haven't talked to anyone, but
01:24:01I think the new party has plans like
01:24:05A, B, C, D for all possibilities,
01:24:08it has made all its preparations, also, the Supreme Court's
01:24:12making this notification is natural,
01:24:15it is a duty it has to do,
01:24:18however, when you look at their logos. "it turns out that the logos do not express
01:24:22any similarity, moreover, there are many
01:24:25political parties whose names start with justice,
01:24:29there are a few political parties,
01:24:33there are some political parties that start with republic,
01:24:37therefore, it is natural to expect the Constitutional Court
01:24:41to make a decision by looking at the logos
01:24:44and evaluating and seeing the difference
01:24:48and saying "new party". What do you say Ali Gökçek?
01:24:51Now, at the MYK meeting, the Constitutional Court's decision
01:24:55will be awaited, a name
01:24:58change was not considered, but
01:25:01the fact that everything has a reason,
01:25:04that nothing in politics is accidental,
01:25:08that every step taken is actually the infrastructure
01:25:11of the next step, I mean, we've experienced
01:25:15so many things in the last year and a half, we said
01:25:19"this is because of this, this is because of that", and then
01:25:23we witnessed many developments, the annulment decision is the most
01:25:25concrete, the trustee decision that came to the provincial
01:25:29chairmanship in Istanbul is the most concrete, so
01:25:32it seems like a siege is continuing, by the way,
01:25:36I agree with what Uğur hocam said, the move made
01:25:39by the Chief Public Prosecutor's Office of the Court of Cassation
01:25:42is a correct move, but on the other hand, for example, there is the CHP's
01:25:45decision to withdraw its appeal, Müslüm Sarı announced it yesterday, what's happening?
01:25:55First, if we come to the name issue, as Mr. Uğur
01:25:58also mentioned, the Constitutional Court will decide,
01:26:01but when the Constitutional Court examines this,
01:26:04it does not examine it as "new party, innovation party,
01:26:08names are similar", when it makes this
01:26:12examination, it looks at its logo,
01:26:15its abbreviation, furthermore, it looks at
01:26:18whether the political
01:26:20it evokes corresponds to the same thing, that is, it looks
01:26:24at whether it makes the same associations, in the end, it examines
01:26:28whether it can be confused when voting, it does not
01:26:31examine similarity based only on names,
01:26:34it will do this, we will continue
01:26:37to use it, we think that the Constitutional Court
01:26:41will make a decision in our favor here,
01:26:44let's say it doesn't, let's say
01:26:47today is so beautiful. "I read, while this conversation
01:26:51was going on in the street, so many beautiful things,
01:26:55whatever you call it, brother, we are following the path you took,
01:26:59wherever you go, we will give way, we will vote for it, people
01:27:03say, we will be with you, the nation gave this name,
01:27:06if you change the name given by the nation, the nation
01:27:10will give another name, and it will support that name,
01:27:13this is not an issue that is currently
01:27:16on our agenda, frankly, and the appeal
01:27:20application, they have to withdraw the appeal application, why,
01:27:23you ask? It is actually related to the Üsküdar issue,
01:27:27it had nothing to do with it, but how is it related? A decision was made there,
01:27:30annulment is one of the most
01:27:34wrong legal decisions made in Turkey, we can say,
01:27:37it's a strong statement, but it's really true, because this decision
01:27:41has no precedent, for the first time in the history
01:27:45of the republic, a political party was involved, and since it was
01:27:48not in the political parties law, they couldn't find a reason
01:27:52there, so they went to civil law and made an annulment
01:27:55decision with forced reasons, if this is approved
01:27:59by the Supreme Court,
01:28:01it means that the friend who went
01:28:05door to door in Üsküdar saying "hello, we are here now,
01:28:08we are neighbors" will not be able to stay there
01:28:11because it will set a precedent, it will set a precedent,
01:28:14even if the Supreme Court makes this decision and
01:28:17they withdraw the appeal application, even if we withdraw
01:28:21our appeal application, the Supreme Court must
01:28:25discuss this issue and eliminate this legal absurdity,
01:28:29because if it doesn't, from now on, no
01:28:32election in Turkey, neither an association election
01:28:35nor a general election, can become official,
01:28:38it cannot be finalized, the Supreme Court cannot approve
01:28:42this, so did it take this step, this legal step,
01:28:45to prevent this decision from reaching the Supreme Court?
01:28:48Okay, then everyone knows that it has to be overturned,
01:28:52from the moment the Supreme Court made this decision, there
01:28:56is no longer a Supreme Election Board,
01:28:59a court can make a wrong decision, that's why there
01:29:02are higher courts, there is an appeal, there is the
01:29:06Constitutional Court, etc. A court can make a wrong decision,
01:29:10but if the Supreme Court approves this decision,
01:29:14no election in Turkey can be finalized after this.
01:29:17You can also make an application about an election 10 years ago,
01:29:21we can also make an application about one 4 years ago. It won't
01:29:24happen because it cannot be finalized. Furthermore,
01:29:27after you approve this in the Supreme
01:29:30Court, after Tahsim Bey's statement
01:29:33in Üsküdar. "there must be an annulment there
01:29:36immediately, what is annulment? The election must be cancelled,
01:29:40if we say the election is void, then Ms. Sibel,
01:29:43Sibel Can Çetinkaya must go back and sit in the Üsküdar
01:29:47mayor's office, in my opinion, the annulment
01:29:50decision that should be taken is for Ms. Sinem to come and sit
01:29:54there, let's say for the last election, this must be removed
01:29:57after Tasim Bey's statement, that's why
01:30:00they wanted to prevent this decision from the Supreme Court,
01:30:04but again, not the Republican People's
01:30:07Party, even Özgür Özel as the party
01:30:11affected, even if he withdraws the appeal application
01:30:14he made, the Supreme Court must
01:30:17discuss this legal absurdity for all previous and future
01:30:21elections in Turkey and eliminate
01:30:24it. CHP spokesman Müslüm says, "My dear professors,
01:30:28they are withdrawing it to be able to start the general
01:30:32assembly process. This is why we are giving
01:30:35up this case, but they were saying there
01:30:39is a precaution, there is a case in the Supreme Court, that's why
01:30:43takvimi bir an önce başlatabilmek için biz bu adım attık
01:30:46deniliyor eee ama kulislerde de ona
01:30:49bakarsanız Kemal Bey de ben bu bullan olayının hiçbir yerinde
01:30:52yokum diyor evet Şammir Bey de çıktı çıkacak dedi
01:30:56bu karar için geçen gün tweet attı x hesabından benhurbaşkanı
01:31:00da aynı şeyi söyledi evet.
01:31:03"ben benzerlik var söyleme Uğur Bey derin bir nefes
01:31:06aldı, siz söyleyince cümleyi hatırlat,
01:31:10şey Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu, butlanın içinde yokum,
01:31:14hiçbir yerinde yokum dedi, bana
01:31:17göre her tarafında var, bu benim şahsi
01:31:20kanaatim, her tarafında onun rızası
01:31:23olmadan hiçbir kimse yani
01:31:26siyasette hiçbir adım böyle tesadüfi olarak
01:31:29değerlendirilemiyor, şimdi pazar günü ben burada ana habermış. Cumartesi akşamı
01:31:33üst düzey yargı mensubu dostlarımla görüştüm, karar hazır ekim ya da
01:31:37kasım başında işte mutlak Butlan kararı yargıtaydan çıkacak.
01:31:40Kemal Bey diyelim ki dediği doğru, eee
01:31:44Butlan başvurusunun hiçbir yerinde yok.
01:31:47Ama o süreçte çıkıp kamuoyunu
01:31:51aydınlatan, kamuoyunun zihnine takılan soruları
01:31:55cevaplandıran ve bunda tahlilinin olmadığını
01:31:58ifade eden açıklamalar yapabilirdi. Kemal Bey hep
01:32:02sustu. "kemal Bey'in suskunluğu bir
01:32:05anlamda bir itiraf
01:32:07niteliğinde. Kemal Bey Butlan davasının
01:32:11her yerinde olduğunuy bizim 9 tane milletvekilimiz
01:32:15parti meclisi kararı olmadan ihraç edildi, ben bunların hiçbir yerinde yokum
01:32:19diyerek gelen partinin başına oturan birisi milletvekili ihraç
01:32:22etmez. Olacak iş mi? Bizim il başkanlarımız ihraç
01:32:26edildi, ilçe başkanlarımız ihraç edildi. Sayın Gökçek olmaz
01:32:30dediğimiz çok şey oluyor. "bu da
01:32:33olmaz dediğimiz çok şey oluyor, bu kadar
01:32:36yeterli, o yüzden ben de size katılıyor, o
01:32:40zamanlar yine programlarda konuşuyorduk, cumhuriyet halk
01:32:43partisi iki tane kongre arka arkaya olmuş, 3 3 toplantısı 6 sene 6 sene
01:32:47kongre kapatılacak diye, ben dahil yeni parti kuracaksanız
01:32:50kurun, parti tümden kapatılırsa ne olacak ne diye
01:32:53konuşuyorduk, şimdi orada apar topar yani böyle bu takvime
01:32:57ve bu yasal sıkışıklığa bakarak yeni
01:33:00parti kuruldu. eee şimdi o zaman gidenler
01:33:04gitti, o zaman biz de şimdi onu geri çekelim, geri çekince
01:33:08mutlak mutlan ne olacak, yargıtay kararını beklemeden kalacak, kendi kendilerini kongre
01:33:12we cannot hold a general assembly,
01:33:15so they are saying "we took this step to start
01:33:19the calendar as soon as possible", but if you look at the backstage,
01:33:23Kemal Bey also says "I'm not involved in this annulment
01:33:26incident at all". Yes, Şammir Bey also came out and said
01:33:29it would come out for this decision, he tweeted the other
01:34:26to make the unheard heard, to say the unsaid,
01:34:30to show the unseen.
01:34:32when you say it,
01:34:40From the street to politics, from the market
01:34:43to the markets, from the stalls to the big market.
01:34:57We will be together in this studio every weekday morning
01:35:01from 7 to 10 while Turkey wakes up.
01:35:24We are starting the second hour, uncensored, and
01:35:27as of this hour, lawyer Ertun Çözün is also with us,
01:35:30welcome Ertun Çözün, thank you for coming, now in the first
01:35:34hour, we talked about the transitions, transfers, operations,
01:35:38investigations, the notification that came through the name
01:35:41that came to the new party, the new party's decision
01:35:45not to change the MYK today and the CHP's
01:35:48waiver of its appeal, but now the citizen
01:35:51is of course following what is happening,
01:35:54observing, making a reading, and public
01:35:58opinion polls share those readings with the public
01:36:01every month with their studies, now Gündemar is
01:36:05one of the public opinion polls that is respected
01:36:08and we often include the results
01:36:11of Gündemar's research, he shares a striking
01:36:15survey result. Regarding August,
01:36:18we are in September, and when we look at it
01:36:21comparatively, I'm talking about a research that has
01:36:25striking results that make us say "what's happening?".
01:36:28If there was a parliamentary election this Sunday, who would you vote for?
01:36:32It's a classic public opinion poll question, and
01:36:35in July, we saw the new party's vote share about 12 points
01:36:38above the AK Party's. It had a vote share
01:36:41of 38.58% to 27.43%.
01:36:45And the AK Party was declining compared to June,
01:36:48we are talking about a rate of 3.77%.
01:36:51We came to this month, the August survey,
01:36:55or rather, it was shared yesterday by the research
01:36:59firm, and we see the AK Party in the first place this
01:37:02time, and there is an increase of nearly 1% in its vote share.
01:37:06Looking at the past month, the new party has a decrease
01:37:09of approximately 12 points. Here, some parties
01:37:13have also become active. like 8.21,
01:37:17there is an increase of 3.65%
01:37:19compared to a month ago, there is an increase in the votes
01:37:23of the People's Party, there is an increase in the votes of the MHP,
01:37:27but the CHP's votes are still below 5%,
01:37:31meaning below the threshold, if there was an election this Sunday,
01:37:34now Tamer Bolat, the director of the public opinion research
01:37:38firm, an important figure, makes a sharing about these breakdowns,
01:37:41he says that in July, they measured
01:37:45the new party as the first party, this rate was important
01:37:49not only for the initial interest in a newly established party,
01:37:52but also for showing the level reached by the voter's
01:37:56search for a new political discussed this in this
01:37:59way. He says a strong start does not mean that a strong
01:38:03political position is permanent. In the framework law vote
01:38:06on August 10, Mr. Özel and the party management
01:38:10voted yes, but the majority of the
01:38:13deputies voted no, we will see in our August
01:38:16research how this stance, called Havet in the public,
01:38:20will affect the strong start created by the establishment
01:38:23of the new party, he said, and
01:38:26this table that emerged today, that is,
01:38:30the 12% decrease in the new party's votes,
01:38:33is attributed to the Havet stance by Tamer Bolat,
01:38:35this is what we understand, it seems like a very
01:38:38radical difference, such a one-point,
01:38:41two-point, three-point always these researches.
01:38:57I also find their results very important
01:39:00and noteworthy, there are a few more like that,
01:39:04but by the way, I think it's useful for the audience,
01:39:07our readers, our followers to know that there are some
01:39:10research companies that exist purely for manipulation
01:39:14and will disappear after the elections,
01:39:17and their purpose, I repeat, is manipulation.
01:39:21Now, if you notice here, there is no significant
01:39:23increase in the votes of the Justice
01:39:27and Development Party, yes,
01:39:31on the other hand, Mr. Özgür Özel's
01:39:34saying yes in the "Turkey
01:39:37without terrorism" vote, but
01:39:41leaving the members of parliament free to vote no,
01:39:44was not evaluated as they hoped
01:39:48in the public, and as a reaction, the votes
01:39:52somewhat shifted.
01:39:56From
01:40:074.56 to 8.21, it's a very striking
01:40:11and radical increase,
01:40:13the same goes for the Zafer Party, however,
01:40:17I evaluate this as a conjuncture
01:40:20choice, as long
01:40:22as Özgür Özel and the new party members
01:40:25share enlightening
01:40:28information on this issue with the public
01:40:31and explain their intentions,
01:40:34this trend will revert to its former state,
01:40:38because we see that the issues
01:40:41that influence the public when saying no to the ruling
01:40:45party have not changed at all.
01:40:47The economy, directly the economy,
01:40:50now you said when you opened the program that the price
01:40:54of a liter of fuel approached 100 liras.
01:40:58Yes, I mean, we will now
01:41:01be talking about three-digit numbers
01:41:04And in such an
01:41:07economy, Mr. Mehmet Şimşek,
01:41:11even if he were a wizard, the things he could do would be very
01:41:14limited, because the fuel
01:41:17hike affects
01:41:19the entire
01:41:21economic
01:41:23circulation, especially road transportation.
01:41:27It has a tremendous impact on our society, affecting the entire domestic market
01:41:31from A to Z, from A to Z,
01:41:34the fuel hike affects everything. Ms. Siğnem, I was recently
01:41:38returning from the tour of the Gırgıriye
01:41:40musical in Ankara. It was
01:41:432 AM. Sir, we entered the
01:41:46Marmara, North Marmara Highway.
01:41:49Suddenly, I felt like I was
01:41:52in Istanbul's daytime traffic. Trucks were passing
01:41:56from the right. Trucks were passing, and we
01:41:59were going so slowly,
01:42:03almost in first gear, at 2 AM.
01:42:06This kind of road transportation
01:42:10is affecting the economy.
01:42:13So,
01:42:16no matter how hard Mr. Mehmet Şimşek tries,
01:42:19and let's admit he is trying, or give him his
01:42:23due, he is trying very hard, but as I said,
01:42:27even if he were a wizard, it would be impossible to fix this under these conditions. They cannot cut public
01:42:30spending, but Uğur Abi cannot do anything, which means he cannot get through to certain places, which means he does not
01:42:34have a say in certain places. Yes, he does not have a say in certain places. We see this
01:42:38in the headlines of some
01:42:41of the pro-government newspapers, right, sir? Of course, we do.
01:42:45Mr. Mehmet Şimşek is criticized even by
01:42:49the AK Party prosecutors today. Mr. Mehmet
01:42:52is an economist known for making the rich richer.
01:42:55But in inflation, in societies with inflation,
01:42:58this is inevitable. The
01:43:02119th richest get richer, the poor get
01:43:05poorer. If there are 119,865
01:43:08official public vehicles in a country like Germany, and this
01:43:12is only 12, then you should sit down and think. This
01:43:16will not improve easily, unfortunately, it will not. Yes, yes, I mean, have you finalized
01:43:20these July results, master?
01:43:24I consider these to be conjunctural, because there is no change
01:43:27in the factors and facts
01:43:31that will affect the preferences of the people,
01:43:34but on the contrary, the economy is deteriorating.
01:43:38There is no dynamic that would
01:43:42necessitate an increase in votes. Yes, the economy is still strong, despite
01:43:46this turbulence,
01:43:49despite this extraordinary rise in oil prices
01:43:52due to the Iran war caused by
01:43:56our friend Trump, there were no
01:43:59wounds that we could call
01:44:02as severe as that. Mr. Dünder made a very accurate
01:44:05assessment, meaning the AK Party
01:44:08did not create a dynamic that would
01:44:12cause its votes to increase, but there is a slight
01:44:15increase, and a significant decrease is seen
01:44:18in the new party's votes, according to Gündem Ara and Tamer Bolat, who says, the
01:44:21public opinion poll conducted in the first month,
01:44:24it will become clear whether it is a result
01:44:28of the excitement for a new party or people looking for an alternative.
01:44:31Indeed, it seems to have turned out that way. How do you evaluate this, Mr.
01:44:35Gökçek? Well,
01:44:38if we were to say that based on this analysis,
01:44:42the framework law was approved by our
01:44:45Chairman and his administration, and some MPs voted no,
01:44:49and they faced backlash for this, and
01:44:53that this is an
01:44:56invalid claim or assessment,
01:45:00then we would be disrespecting
01:45:02the reactions we received from our circles, from society,
01:45:06and from our parties, as well as the sensitivities
01:45:10of the entire society. Yes, we also received reactions
01:45:13on this matter, that's true.
01:45:16I even agree with this assessment.
01:45:19A new party was formed,
01:45:22a new excitement. Naturally, it is also true
01:45:26that its votes are higher than expected in the polls.
01:45:30This will settle down a bit over time, then it might rise again,
01:45:33and perhaps fall again, but for Turkey,
01:45:37it faced its first serious issue.
01:45:40The new party was formed and immediately faced
01:45:43a test regarding a 50-year-old problem
01:45:47of Turkey. Here,
01:45:50in his speech when our Chairman said yes,
01:45:53he explained why we said
01:45:56yes, even though we perhaps deserved to say no the most.
01:46:00Of course, this may not have fully resonated
01:46:03with society. Here, naturally,
01:46:07everyone, the Republican People's Party, yes.
01:46:13Seeing that some MPs voted no, they might have made
01:46:16an emotional decision at first,
01:46:20but I think when this is
01:46:23explained properly to society, society will clearly
01:46:27understand why the Republican People's Party made such a decision
01:46:31for a new party. Why do I say this?
01:46:34Because our district organizations are being established,
01:46:37and we are visiting our district presidencies.
01:46:41We are conducting field visits. For example, we said we would be in all
01:46:4481 provinces with all our MPs. I am going
01:46:47to Ağrı tomorrow with our Istanbul MP, Türken Elçi.
01:46:51In Ağrı, I am sure
01:46:54I will meet citizens who ask why we said yes,
01:46:58and citizens who ask why some MPs said no.
01:47:01I believe we will be able to explain
01:47:05very clearly to both types of citizens why we said yes and why we said no.
01:47:08I think the MPs voted no,
01:47:24and we will overturn this. Still,
01:47:27stating all this upfront, the new
01:47:31party's
01:47:34loss of nearly 12% of votes
01:47:38is truly interesting to me. I'm not saying there was
01:47:41a distortion here, but every poll has a margin
01:47:45of error. I think the margin of error is high here.
01:47:49Why, Mr. Gökçek? Also, some citizens confuse
01:47:52the Republican People's Party with the new party.
01:47:55I believe that out of habit, they answer
01:47:59"Republican People's Party." But if the pollster
01:48:02insists and says,
01:48:05"They separated, Özgür Özel founded the new party. The Republican People's Party
01:48:10remained with Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu," then they say, "Oh, okay."
01:48:14Something caught my attention on social media sometimes.
01:48:17I see in street interviews, "If there were elections this Sunday, who would you vote for?"
01:48:20A significant number of citizens say "Özgür Özel."
01:48:24So, there is a segment that says "Özgür Özel"
01:48:27directly, without mentioning the party name. But
01:48:31of course, what you said is important. If we look
01:48:35at the August poll, not July,
01:48:38then something like this emerges. Now, the AKP and
01:48:42MHP, who brought this bill. The AKP MHP,
01:48:45who brought this proposal. They would have increased
01:48:48their votes. It is very normal for the Dem
01:48:51Party to increase its votes. Perhaps there were Dem Party
01:48:55members who didn't think this process could be solved, but when it came to a solution,
01:48:58they said yes and supported it again. But the MHP
01:49:00base will do this. Moreover, let me tell you
01:49:04something else. Ultimately, the New Party's
01:49:07base and the Republican People's Party's base are
01:49:10the same people. When we look at it, they just separated a month
01:49:13ago and formed the new party,
01:49:16and many Republican People's Party
01:49:20supporters joined the new party,
01:49:23as did different groups. And now,
01:49:26the Republican People's Party increasing its votes by 2%
01:49:30is a bit interesting here. Let's say AKP and
01:49:33MHP were leading this,
01:49:36and people reacted with something different,
01:49:39then okay. While the new party and the Republican People's Party's base
01:49:43think similarly, let's say, that close,
01:49:46that intertwined, a 12% loss
01:49:49there is a 5% loss
01:49:53here, and we are talking about 5% of 2%, which is almost 40%
01:49:57increase in votes, which is a bit interesting, honestly. Gökçek,
01:50:00the Republican People's Party's votes
01:50:03were determined as 4.99%. 1%
01:50:07corresponds to 500,000
01:50:09voters, so it comes out to
01:50:13about 2.5 million
01:50:16voters for the Republican.
01:50:17We see from its activities
01:50:22that sometimes the halls are not full,
01:50:25and it is clear from the public reaction
01:50:29that we, public opinion pollsters and journalists, are also tasked
01:50:32with reflecting the voice of the public,
01:50:35and when we take that photograph, we do not encounter
01:50:38such a reality on the streets.
01:50:42Actually, the Republican seems to have shown a 100%
01:50:45increase.
01:50:52When July is taken into account, the new party's vote loss is 30% compared to the previous
01:50:56rate,
01:50:59because as Mr. Uğur said, there are still people who see the Republican People's Party with Mr. Özgür Özel,
01:51:03or continue with their habits. Indeed, Mr. Ali just
01:51:06mentioned the Republican.
01:51:07But it does have some effect.
01:51:11For example, if you say that all of the Republican People's Party's 4.499%
01:51:15votes were given incorrectly, and you add them,
01:51:18then the decrease would go down to 7.5-8%.
01:51:31Before I came here today, I spoke with some Republican People's Party
01:51:34members, and they also believe
01:51:38it is conjunctural.
01:51:43This is also true. For example, I spoke with a few pollsters,
01:51:46or rather, not a few, but two poll company owners.
01:51:50For example, in some polls, the Good Party
01:51:53is seen at 8.21. There are those who show 9.16. There are also those who show 13.2.
01:51:5713.2. So, these kinds of deviations
01:52:01in polls happen, of course. However, if we take
01:52:04this as a reference, that is, if we base it on this table,
01:52:08the Justice and Development Party seems
01:52:11to have reached a saturation point, as they say, a satisfaction point.
01:52:14That is, it is not 32-33.
01:52:18Now, as you said, the moving
01:52:22of the new party. Now, regarding the votes
01:52:25of the new party, I totally agree with the "Turkey without terror"
01:52:29framework law and so on, but I think here, it's not so much that the framework law
01:52:32received a "yes," and I said "yes" and left my friends
01:52:36free, but rather
01:52:39that this is not about Turkey. This has been discussed. If
01:52:43the voter, to some extent, follows this as carefully
01:52:46as we do, then there hasn't been a terror incident
01:52:50in Turkey for a long time. This is actually
01:52:53about the American Ambassador's appearance,
01:52:56and its drawing
01:52:59within a perspective that covers the region.
01:53:02In other words, Turkey will not only maintain peace
01:53:06domestically, but also a hegemonic structure in Syria
01:53:09and a hegemonic structure in Iran, and it is claimed
01:53:13that it will be a country that has solved this problem in the region,
01:53:16that it will be a country that has solved the problems
01:53:20in the region, even if I don't
01:53:24think so. The claim is that
01:53:28the voter looks at it like this: this is a very
01:53:31important issue, concerning Syria, Iran, Iraq, and all
01:53:35of them. Then the main opposition must
01:53:38have a homogenous view here. The general chairman thinks differently,
01:53:42the party's MPs think differently. I think
01:53:46that rather than yes or no, the main opposition, a party
01:53:49that is a candidate for power, not having a homogenous pact
01:53:52view plays a role. Sir, this table also shows
01:53:56the impact of general polarization
01:54:00on every issue. That could also be
01:54:02the case. Now, regarding
01:54:05a Turkey without terror, some
01:54:08citizens want
01:54:12it to be rejected. Yes, they want
01:54:16it to be rejected. But when you look
01:54:19at the realities, you see
01:54:23that there are very important reasons to say yes. Therefore,
01:54:27I believe that politicians,
01:54:30even risking losing votes, must take
01:54:33certain steps for the benefit of Turkey.
01:54:37I evaluate that this polarization
01:54:40in voter preferences is reflected.
01:54:44You are right on that point. For example, the AK Party
01:54:47always kept its distance from the process.
01:54:51The AK Party kept its distance from the process. If there was a political risk
01:54:55taken here, it was taken by the MHP leader, Mr. Bahçeli. From time to time, there
01:54:58were decreases in vote rates according to these polls.
01:55:02The most groundbreaking statements and steps
01:55:05came from Mr. Bahçeli. Therefore, what you said is important. I also
01:55:09agree on different ruptures, but this
01:55:13didn't proceed gradually, that is,
01:55:17in a way that would generate social consent and be explained
01:55:20very well. It went too fast. For example, maybe it's not our topic
01:55:24today, but for example, in an interview given by Devlet Bahçeli
01:55:27to a journalist the other day, whose name I don't want to mention again, he said
01:55:31things like houses are being built. For example, was Mr. President aware
01:55:35of that? Was it said just like that? If it was said
01:55:38without his knowledge, then did they want to accelerate
01:55:41this process and involve Mr. President more like a catalyst?
01:55:45That is, Mr. Bahçeli made these moves
01:55:48at the right time, meaning "let's go."
01:55:52He made statements meaning "let's go." And now,
01:55:55this also means that we are talking about
01:55:59summary executions here, aren't we? We are talking about
01:56:02unjust arrests,
01:56:05On the other hand, we are talking about
01:56:09what a two-story mansion of a terrorist organization
01:56:12leader will do. Now,
01:56:15those who say no to this, those who say no,
01:56:19have so many valid reasons that I think
01:56:22not explaining this well and not generating social
01:56:25consent is an important parameter. This is very, very important. This needs to be explained.
01:56:29We are talking about Turkey's 40-year painful history.
01:56:32If 40 years have been wasted.
01:56:35Those under 50 don't know under what conditions
01:56:39and how terrorism started
01:56:43and what suffering it caused. But now, my dear Sinem, this is
01:56:46only one aspect. For example, if there really
01:56:50is this decrease, that is, it changes according to
01:56:53each poll company. Also, I agree with Uğur Abi that this can also be conjunctural.
01:56:57You never know what the next poll says. For example, the Good Party
01:57:01here, the new party
01:57:04is 38. There's no
01:57:0728. It's written incorrectly,
01:57:10it's 26.95. Okay, 26.95. For example, if you look at the next poll,
01:57:14it might show 32.43 in Gündem Hard, or 32.45. So it can be conjunctural,
01:57:18but this is only one parameter. For example,
01:57:21I hope that for example,
01:57:25Greece has come to the island of Lesbos. I will be very brief. This is not
01:57:28another topic. Yes, sir, there is also Ankara's research. Yes, for example, he came
01:57:32to the island of Lesbos, Mitsotakis is showing off
01:57:35there. He wants to besiege Turkey from Dedeağaç
01:57:38to Crete. He signed the Achilles Shield agreement again
01:57:42with Israel, and also with Southern Cyprus.
01:57:45So, in the Eastern Mediterranean, exploration continues
01:57:49in blocks belonging to Turkey. On the other hand,
01:57:52there is still the 12-mile dispute. Now, if I were the new party,
01:57:56I would say, "Turkey must immediately take initiative
01:57:59in the islands whose status has not been determined." Look,
01:58:03for example, on the other hand.
01:58:07Of course, initiatives regarding Syria, or what does it mean?
01:58:10We call on the government, we are behind you all the way,
01:58:14let's act together. Turkey should immediately start natural
01:58:18gas exploration in its own blocks in the Mediterranean. Don't exploit
01:58:21the Mediterranean. Let's see how Turkey becomes a united
01:58:25body when you raise the 12 miles. I personally hope
01:58:28that they will also make moves in foreign policy. That is,
01:58:31I want to say this without deviating from the topic.
01:58:41Now, do you have anything to add here, Ertun Çözün, or should I continue with Ankara's?
01:58:44Now, Ankara has also done a comprehensive study
01:58:48regarding the voting behavior of voters who voted for the AK Party
01:58:51in the 2023 elections, regarding voter reflexes.
01:58:54I will share with you the results
01:58:57of a very comprehensive research. Let's quickly
01:59:01look at the details. Who would vote for the AK Party today,
01:59:05who voted for them in 2023? One of the August 2026
01:59:08researches says that 64.9%
01:59:12would vote for the AK Party again. Undecided protest
01:59:15is 24%. This is important. There is a 10%
01:59:18segment that says they would vote for other parties.
01:59:22Now, when you put 24%
01:59:25and 10% side by side, it points to a 35%
01:59:29vote potential. This actually brings us
01:59:33to the question of what would happen if there were an election this Sunday.
01:59:36It is that gray area that will determine
01:59:39the outcome of the election. How will the undecided
01:59:42voters react at the ballot box? 10%
01:59:45are asked which parties
01:59:58they prefer to vote for. 1.8% say Dem Party,
02:00:011.4% say MHP, the rate of those
02:00:03who say key party is 1.1%,
02:00:07CHP, meaning those who say my hand won't go to the six arrows
02:00:10is 0.7%. Therefore, when you add
02:00:13this table, the fact that the New Welfare Party
02:00:16is 0.2% is very important. That is,
02:00:19there seems to be no shift to the New Welfare Party
02:00:23within the 10% group. And of course,
02:00:26Ertun Çözün, let's continue with you. We always
02:00:29talk about this, don't we? Will the most decisive voter
02:00:33group in the next election be the undecided
02:00:36and those who say, "I will no longer vote for my previous party?"
02:00:40Does the table tell you this again? 40% of AK Party
02:00:43voters, 40% are hesitant
02:00:47to vote for the AK Party again, and even consider going to different parties,
02:00:5035%. That is, 35% are leaving. Yes, 35%.
02:00:53That is, they have started to consider other parties.
02:00:57We used to not see such large defections of 10%,
02:01:0015% from the AK Party. There would be changes
02:01:04according to candidates or MP lists, but now
02:01:08we are talking about 35%. That is, one-third of AK Party
02:01:11members say, "I don't think I will vote for the AK Party again,
02:01:15I am looking for another alternative." Yes. When you look at other polls,
02:01:19actually, with the new party, there is a 30% increase
02:01:22in opposition votes. That is, we are talking about 30-38%
02:01:26at a limit that previously remained below 25%, not exceeding 25%.
02:01:30If I combine and interpret with the previous poll, in the previous poll as well,
02:01:33during that one-month period, now that we are speaking as lawyers,
02:01:36what has changed in our country? Have arrests
02:01:40changed? I just looked up what happened legally
02:01:43or politically during those dates. Municipal
02:01:46operations continued, arrests continued.
02:01:50While these were happening, I think the sudden change of 6-7%
02:01:54is just an instant reaction to a framework law. Perhaps
02:01:58in the September-October polls, it will continue
02:02:01in the 30% and above range. Indeed, we see the same
02:02:05in the AK Party's votes. That is, 2.7% of the 10%
02:02:08can go to the new party, but 2.7% is a very important
02:02:12rate there, isn't it? It's as much as the Republican People's Party's votes.
02:02:15I forgot to mention something very important about the previous poll.
02:02:19Taking over municipalities
02:02:22by the AKP using the methods we discussed earlier,
02:02:25does not turn the ruling party into an attraction
02:02:29area, a center of attraction. On the contrary, it caused
02:02:33its votes, which were above 30%,
02:02:36to fall below 30%. This might be why
02:02:39the undecided voters within that 24% said, "This is too much"
02:02:42after the Üsküdar election. That is, even those I know say,
02:02:46"This is too much." Arrest one, transfer another,
02:02:49detain another. You are directing the undecided
02:02:53to the other side with your unlawful
02:02:56judgments. Besides this, there is an economic reality.
02:03:00There is an economic reality that is getting worse and worse.
02:03:04These people no longer believe that the AK Party is the one
02:03:07that will change things. It has started to decrease.
02:03:1035% of AK Party members themselves have decreased in this regard.
02:03:14If it continues in this direction, I think that despite this decrease,
02:03:17my graph will continue to jump up again. But
02:03:21Ali Gökçek, now this 34%, that is,
02:03:23when we add up the undecided protest and the voters
02:03:27who switched to other parties, we get a rate of 34%.
02:03:30Now, the voter says that 65 out of 100 AK Party
02:03:34voters say, "I will vote for my political party again, no matter
02:03:38the climate." But 35 people out of 100 say,
02:03:41"Wait a minute, I am undecided, I haven't made my decision yet."
02:03:45But what kind of position will they take when they go to the ballot box?
02:03:48Will they react with a sense of party affiliation?
02:03:52But 10% also say, "No, I'm done with the AK Party,
02:03:55I won't vote for them again." And we see a 2.7%
02:03:58new party tendency. How will this affect
02:04:01it? Well, I was just going to look
02:04:04on my phone, what was the AK Party's vote share
02:04:08in 2023? 2023. Yes, what was
02:04:11the AK Party's percentage?
02:04:1430%. One minute, 30.
02:04:1830-33? 32.8.
02:04:22Let's take it from 83 for easy calculation.
02:04:25Let's make 165 66%. That is, two-thirds,
02:04:29two-thirds of it makes 22%. We are talking
02:04:32about the August poll. In the previous August poll, the AKP
02:04:35was shown as 28%. In the previous company's August
02:04:39poll, that's why there can be differences
02:04:42between companies and polls. But there is something there,
02:04:45my dear.
02:04:49From the undecided voters, for example, 24-25
02:04:51or close to 30. If we consider one-third of the undecided to be distributed
02:04:54equally among the parties they received, you need to add that too.
02:04:58We won't be able to distribute that 60 in the same proportion, but
02:05:02this time, I don't know, but 24 is not a small number.
02:05:05Okay, if we divide that 24 equally
02:05:09among the political parties here, how many are there? 3, 5, 7,
02:05:1210. If you put two points each, it becomes a distribution
02:05:16close to 5%. Sir, now regarding
02:05:19the new party, if we come to the new party's 2.7%,
02:05:22this will increase much
02:05:26more because it's still new. we are just
02:05:30starting to explain what the party wants to do in economic
02:05:33terms, in agricultural terms, in health, in national
02:05:36education, in foreign policy, what it
02:05:39aims to achieve. Our congresses are still ongoing,
02:05:43and after these congresses settle down
02:05:46and our establishment process is fully completed, we will explain
02:05:50what we want to do. Now, in the 2023
02:05:53elections, I never forget, I always tell the story,
02:05:56I went to a cafe during an election
02:06:00visit. It was both an association and a place that people
02:06:03used as a cafe to sit. I said that after the election,
02:06:07diesel would be 20 liras. An elder brother came up and said,
02:06:10"Don't even start talking if you're going to lie to us.
02:06:13It won't be 20. Come here and tell us what
02:06:16you're going to do yourself." He said, "It won't be 20, don't come to us with these
02:06:20things." Today, diesel is 96 liras.
02:06:24So, imagine that when I said
02:06:27it would be 20 liras, there was a crowd that reacted
02:06:31to me like that. It became 96 liras, and
02:06:34right after the election, it was already 20 liras, that's a separate issue.
02:06:38When we come to this, seeing this and
02:06:41still having only 10% of the AKP voters
02:06:44go to other parties, I think is a good
02:06:48result for the AKP. I don't think
02:06:51they can manage this until the election. Moreover,
02:06:55the undecided
02:06:57voters, yes, we can distribute a certain percentage of the undecided,
02:07:01but there is no reason
02:07:03for the undecided to start tending to vote for the AKP
02:07:07again. Oh, wait a minute, let me make a note of this.
02:07:11Under normal circumstances, we conduct
02:07:14a survey. After asking about all parties,
02:07:17a group of undecided voters emerges, and we distribute a certain
02:07:21proportion of those. But we are asking among those
02:07:24who are undecided about voting for the AKP,
02:07:27who previously voted for the AKP. There's nothing to make them
02:07:30tend to vote for the AKP again. Here's the thing:
02:07:34if you don't provide alternatives, people might turn
02:07:38to the AKP again. This is where we see the effect
02:07:42of the new party being new and not having fully
02:07:46explained itself to the public. As time
02:07:48progresses, there will be shifts from 24% to 10%,
02:07:52and those shifts to 10% will be in favor of the new party.
02:07:55Professor Mithat, please. Of course,
02:07:59there is something called voter behavior, which is a separate discipline.
02:08:02We take our associate professorship exam on voter behavior. This
02:08:06is one of the important aspects of political sociology.
02:08:09Now, if we are speaking arrogantly as we talk about voters,
02:08:12I hope our professors will excuse us. No, not at all. Now,
02:08:16it's like this: there's no such thing as saying the 24% undecided
02:08:19won't go there, which goes against statistics.
02:08:23If a voter doesn't find a very strong alternative, they say, "I won't
02:08:26give up," just like despite diesel reaching 96 liras.
02:08:29"Two-thirds of those who voted for the Justice and Development
02:08:32Party haven't budged. They haven't budged, two-thirds of them.
02:08:36They say, 'I'd rather die than give up.'" Look, when we can't solve
02:08:39this, we're just talking in vain. We need to solve this.
02:08:43Where does it stem from? It means we're not explaining
02:08:46something well. I always emphasize that we're not explaining something
02:08:50well. Even if I explain the whole lesson, if the class average is
02:08:5332-38, I'm blaming myself, not the students.
02:08:57It means I'm not explaining it well, they're misunderstanding something."
02:09:01I'm explaining it incompletely. However, Professor,
02:09:03let's not forget the existence of a significant segment
02:09:07of society whose lives and living standards
02:09:09depend on the Justice and Development Party being in power.
02:09:13Also, election expenditures and election promises will
02:09:17influence undecided voters. For example, the main
02:09:20target, 4,863,000 families receive aid.
02:09:244,860,000 families. When you look at it per person,
02:09:2717,785 people
02:09:30directly receive aid, money, coal, pasta, bags, and various aid.
02:09:33There are 20 million people in Turkey, and 50-55 million voters.
02:09:37You enter the election with about 23%. Now, for example,
02:09:40we discuss this on television, right? In the media.
02:09:44Okay, the entire media's weight isn't on the side of the opposition,
02:09:47but opposition channels attract a stronger audience
02:09:51than other channels, just like we're doing tonight.
02:09:55For example, the IYI Party doesn't use the media at all.
02:09:58It's the same as the new party. 2.7% of the 10%
02:10:02who said they wouldn't vote for the Justice and Development Party came to the new party,
02:10:06and two went to the IYI Party. This is essentially
02:10:09something. So, in its
02:10:12distribution, it should be around 4.8 for the new party,
02:10:16I think. The others should be around 1.2,
02:10:190.8. So, I don't understand this.
02:10:23The fact that 65% of the segment is staying
02:10:26in the same place, saying "I'd rather die than leave,"
02:10:30isn't that a sign of a change in government?
02:10:33It's not enough. Now, most of it
02:10:37is done with... there's also this parameter: it's done by phone.
02:10:40State officials... "If I'm not going to vote for the Justice
02:10:44and Development Party, I can say AKP, or Justice and Development Party, because
02:10:47most of these are done by phone. We take that into account,
02:10:51but here, the people wait five more years
02:10:55with hope, they wait five more years. We no longer have the patience
02:10:58to wait. All of us, we live in this country.
02:11:02I am also trying to make a living in this country. I also want
02:11:05to look to the future with hope. I want every student I teach
02:11:09to stay in this country without leaving. So,
02:11:12we need to get out of this without making a mistake.
02:11:15In that respect, I'm saying this: for example, let's
02:11:19not get stuck on this being just a framework law. You need
02:11:23to have something to say in foreign policy, which we will,
02:11:26which is good. You need to have something to say in the economy, and just saying
02:11:30it isn't enough. You can't just say 'I will give every retiree at least
02:11:33the minimum wage.' You have to tell them where you'll find the resources
02:11:36for all of this. You'll tell them like a pill. You'll go door-to-door,
02:11:40explain it. For example, if the general chairman is to be elected by members
02:11:43at the congress, you'll show everyone as an example
02:11:47how democracy is being extended. Everyone will take you as an example.
02:11:50If all these can be implemented quickly, there's still a big
02:11:54chance, I think. But if there's such inertia and
02:11:57internal party conflicts, nothing will happen.
02:12:01And of course, politics is about power.
02:12:04Power politics, they say, is about power. Why am I saying
02:12:08this? For example, 26 municipalities
02:12:10were taken over illegally, of course...
02:12:1616 of them have been taken, for example,
02:12:18Üsküdar.
02:12:23Now, if I were the general chairman, I would quietly protest with 500,000 people, without
02:12:26hurting anyone, without shouting, without injuring anyone.
02:12:29I would quietly protest. Don't leave for three days.
02:12:32Sit on the pavements at Üsküdar Municipality, I would say.
02:12:36This needs to be a more effective protest.
02:12:39Something is being discussed there. 3 days, 5,000
02:12:43people gave support, then they dispersed. Another operation in another
02:12:46district is being discussed, but 1,
02:12:502, 8, 11, 14, 16 have gone. Now the voters also
02:12:53see this. You won, but the voters are tired, Professor.
02:12:57Mr. Özel might not be aware of this, or he might be.
02:13:01I mean, telling the voters to go and wait there for 3 days, then go and wait
02:13:04at Saraçhane, then go to Istanbul University, then go with your diploma...
02:13:08the citizens are tired. But there were over 100 rallies.
02:13:11They filled all of them. So,
02:13:14if directed, the voter participates.
02:13:18I'm saying all these things so that this entire
02:13:21opposition wave can be better united
02:13:25and grow within the framework of law. I understand.
02:13:28Now, one of the most talked about names in recent days
02:13:32is the Mayor of Ankara Metropolitan Municipality, Mansur Yavaş.
02:13:35After his visit to the President at Beştepe last week,
02:13:38especially with the ongoing investigation against him,
02:13:42he might join the AK Party, or even İsmet Büyükataman,
02:13:46one of the prominent figures of the MHP, if I'm mistaken, Alper should
02:13:49correct me. He wrote an article saying, "Don't be surprised
02:13:52if he joins the AK Party tomorrow or the day after." Today, Abdülkadir Selvi,
02:13:56one of the journalists known for his closeness to the government,
02:14:00shared his predictions regarding Mansur Yavaş's roadmap
02:14:04and wrote an article. My director, Murat Erdoğan, the article...
02:14:08Was it Yıldıray Çiçek? Sorry, I apologize to Mr. İsmet.
02:14:12It was Yıldıray Çiçek. He said, "No one should be surprised
02:14:15if he joins the AK Party tomorrow," Yıldıray Çiçek said.
02:14:18Abdülkadir Bey says that many things are being discussed
02:14:21in Ankara's political circles regarding Mansur Yavaş. It is said that he said,
02:14:25"I don't want to go to prison at this age." And he
02:14:28justifies this as follows,
02:14:31Mr. Selvi: "Until the official application period for presidential
02:14:35candidacy begins, I will not put myself forward. When the justice application
02:14:39begins, no one can arrest me. At that time, society will say,
02:14:42'He was arrested because he was president.'" It is said
02:14:46that he says, "I will not be the candidate of just the CHP
02:14:50and the new party, I will be the joint candidate of the opposition,
02:14:53the CHP, the new party, the IYI Party, and the Victory Party." This is the
02:14:57backstage information he shares. Ali Gökçek,
02:15:01wasn't he saying something while saying nothing? Now, "I will be arrested
02:15:04when I become a presidential candidate." I think the issue should
02:15:08move beyond Mr. Mansur now. Is there really not
02:15:11a bigger point in this article? Yes,
02:15:15I brought it up for that reason. Why is Mr. Mansur
02:15:18saying that his not wanting to go to prison
02:15:20is related to his presidential candidacy or his prominence
02:15:24in politics? This is being discussed
02:15:26in Ankara's political circles, and Abdülkadir Bey
02:15:29is bringing it to his column. So, when you become a presidential
02:15:33candidate, I'm sorry, let me ask my question. Does it mean
02:15:36you get arrested when you become a presidential candidate? So, he will be called
02:15:40in for questioning for writing this article,
02:15:43and perhaps arrested. There are many,
02:15:46and I'm saying this in quotation marks, genuine opposition journalists
02:15:50who, when they write this, when they express this, are taken
02:15:53into custody and arrested for publicly
02:15:57disseminating misleading information. What does this mean?
02:16:00Are we now going to associate people's presidential
02:16:02candidacy
02:16:06or their pursuing a more effective and prominent political
02:16:09career with whether they go to prison
02:16:13or not? Are we going to manage that process accordingly?
02:16:16If we are discussing this in Turkey, then nothing else is needed.
02:16:20So, according to Abdülkadir Bey, Mansur Yavaş
02:16:24has made a decision. I'm not talking about his
02:16:28statements, but he says, "I won't go to prison,
02:16:31so I will announce my presidential candidacy later." For example,
02:16:35the Mansur Yavaş I know would want to be the joint candidate
02:16:38of the CHP, the New Party, the IYI Party, and the Victory
02:16:41Party, that's correct. But Mansur
02:16:45Yavaş would also want to be the candidate of AK Party voters,
02:16:48if you ask him, and MHP voters.
02:16:52Let's not look at this as parties.
02:16:55Let's look at it as parties. Mansur Yavaş would want to be
02:16:58the candidate of people who feel they are MHP members. Mansur Yavaş
02:17:01would want to be the candidate of people who feel they are new party members.
02:17:05I mean, Mansur Yavaş wouldn't want to be the candidate of the general
02:17:09chairmen of these parties, would he? Isn't every politician like that?
02:17:13If I were to run for president, I would want to be the candidate
02:17:15of all party members. This is a very natural thing.
02:17:18But what does "I don't want to go to prison"
02:17:21mean? Mansur Bey wouldn't say that anyway.
02:17:25"If he were to embark on such a path, he would already take that risk.
02:17:29But in Turkey, why should someone who wants to be a presidential
02:17:32candidate risk going to prison? Why aren't we asking this question?
02:17:36That's the real question here. Abdülkadir Bey is already prompting
02:17:40this with his article. He says, "I shouldn't put my head out now.
02:17:44Let my politics be defined by serving the Ankara
02:17:47Metropolitan Municipality. Regarding the roadmap,
02:17:51believe nothing you haven't heard from me."
02:17:54"Very good. If I become a candidate, I will be arrested."
02:17:58I mean, isn't
02:18:00leading to such a conclusion? I mean, in this country,
02:18:04does a presidential candidate get arrested then? Should we understand this from
02:18:08this? Again, this question, he himself is not making this
02:18:12comment, he's attributing it to people, saying
02:18:15"this is being discussed in Ankara." He is making such an assessment.
02:18:18Well, I agree with Mr. Gökçek.
02:18:21So, the statement "if someone becomes a presidential
02:18:25candidate, they will definitely go to prison" should not be normalized. Yes,
02:18:29in fact, no pen that shapes
02:18:32public opinion serves its purpose.
02:18:35As he said, if we,
02:18:39as individuals known as opposition
02:18:41figures, were to write such a thing,
02:18:45an investigation would probably be launched against
02:18:48us immediately, and for publicly spreading false
02:18:52information,
02:18:54whatever is necessary would be done.
02:18:58As I said, I was in Ankara on Sunday,
02:19:01two Sundays ago. I first went to Ankara
02:19:05in 1970. Believe me,
02:19:09of course, I admit that the preparations for the NATO
02:19:12summit would play a role in this,
02:19:16but I was captivated by the city
02:19:19of Ankara. Mr. Mansur has done a very successful
02:19:23job as mayor.
02:19:25"Not only members of the new party, not only CHP members,
02:19:29but also those who voted for the ruling party,
02:19:32IYI Party members, and members of other parties
02:19:36would vote for such a successful mayor. Moreover,
02:19:40Mr. Mansur, with his rhetoric,
02:19:43is not someone who has ever expressed
02:19:46fanatic partisanship. He has always,
02:19:50since becoming the mayor of the metropolitan municipality,
02:19:53made embracing speeches to all Ankara residents.
02:19:57He makes statements. We need to look at Mr. Mansur
02:20:01in this way. I mean, when you expand
02:20:04Mr. Mansur's success from the Ankara scale
02:20:07to the entire country, it really shows that
02:20:10he is a very important figure. Mr. Mansur
02:20:13is a very successful mayor.
02:20:16I don't think Mr. Mansur
02:20:19would be
02:20:23experiencing fears, as Abdülkadir Selvi suggests.
02:20:26Already in the polls, he gets 5-6%
02:20:30of the votes from the Justice and Development Party as well.
02:20:33When he becomes a presidential candidate, Justice and Development...
02:20:37Professor, I was captivated by Ankara, of course, but what
02:20:40your words were interrupted,
02:20:44and you want to continue, the problematic
02:20:48is being written. I mean, the fact that it's being talked about
02:20:52that a presidential candidate in this country goes to prison...
02:20:56Look, what did Ms. Özzem say? She said, "I can't live in 12 square meters,"
02:20:59and then she joined the AKP. What did they tell
02:21:02our Bayrampasa Mayor? Two days ago, they called him.
02:21:05A day before, they called again.
02:21:08They said, "I love you, brother. Look, there's an operation against you.
02:21:12Come join our party." He said he wouldn't budge.
02:21:16Today, they are prosecuting Hasan Mutlu with 700-800 years
02:21:20in prison. These will all happen.
02:21:23In the municipalities that joined the AKP last time,
02:21:26there are no operations. Those who didn't join
02:21:29will be prosecuted with 700-800 years. Someone will join the AKP
02:21:33because they said they couldn't stay in 12 square meters.
02:21:37Our presidential candidate will be arrested on the day
02:21:40we nominated him in the pre-election, after asking all citizens,
02:21:43in a pre-election where 15.5 million people voted.
02:21:47His image, his voice, his social media
02:21:50accounts, all of them
02:21:53will be banned. His defense will be banned.
02:21:56The book he wrote to publicize his defense
02:21:59will be banned. It won't be enough.
02:22:02The tea he drank while waiting for the hearing
02:22:06at the courthouse he went to ask a question from
02:22:09will be banned. The league match he watched
02:22:12will be banned. Yes, these will happen.
02:22:16And then, someone considering presidential
02:22:19candidacy will have to risk going to prison, of course.
02:22:22An article like this comes out here, this understanding
02:22:25comes out. Saying "I don't want to go to prison"
02:22:28means that if you're thinking of running
02:22:32for president, you'll have to risk going to prison.
02:22:36The mere writing of this is...
02:22:47Director, please,
02:22:47can I request
02:22:52the article again? Look, he says, "Many things are being talked
02:22:55about in Ankara's political circles about us." He says "talked about,"
02:22:58meaning hearsay. "It is said that he said, 'I don't want
02:23:02to go to prison at this age.'" We don't know if it's true or not.
02:23:05If it's true, then
02:23:08this means suicide. If it's true, it means political
02:23:11suicide. But if it's not true, and
02:23:14I believe it's not true, if it's not true, then it's not
02:23:18subliminal, Mr. Selvi is sending an open message:
02:23:22"If you don't pledge allegiance, you'll go to prison." Can such a thing
02:23:25be true? In fact, this is what is desired.
02:23:29For example, if we were to ask the audience now, is there a similarity
02:23:33between the article written by Abdülkadir Selvi about Mansur
02:23:36Yavaş and the repeat election in Adalar Municipality?
02:23:39What common ground would emerge? To intimidate people
02:23:43into reconsidering even the thought
02:23:46of candidacy. To make the opposition
02:23:49unable to find a candidate, to strip them of candidates.
02:23:52Now, I don't think
02:23:55Mansur Yavaş would say such a thing because
02:23:58it would be political suicide. But here it clearly
02:24:02states that you must pledge allegiance and do what they say.
02:24:06Now, this is something that can be discussed, it's such
02:24:09a conjuncture that incidents are happening in Üsküdar Municipality,
02:24:13arrests are still continuing in many district municipalities.
02:24:16Within this whole conjuncture, why did the President say
02:24:20"come immediately" when Mansur Yavaş requested an appointment,
02:24:23not for the 9 September founding anniversary of the Republican
02:24:27People's Party? This needs to be evaluated.
02:24:30Okay, let's talk and finish the second hour. I'm asking
02:24:34Uğur Dündar for another half hour, as you were supposed to leave at 22:00, but it's important.
02:24:37We will discuss an important
02:24:49topic shortly: which public institutions and organizations give advertisements
02:24:52to which television channels, according to whom, and on what basis?
02:24:56Mahmut Tanal, New Party Deputy
02:24:57for Şanlıurfa, asked, but Şimşek did not answer.
02:25:50Şahin, I would like to say
02:25:51hello to you too.
02:25:54Your voice is not coming through. It would be great if you could turn on your microphone.
02:25:58Now, at this hour, we have an issue to discuss,
02:26:02and we would like to hear the opinions of dear Bengü
02:26:05and our other colleagues on this matter. Now,
02:26:08the advertising budgets that institutions and companies
02:26:12operating with public funds allocate to television
02:26:16channels have now become a matter for parliament.
02:26:20The new party's Şanlıurfa deputy asked Şimşek
02:26:23in a parliamentary question: "Which public institutions
02:26:26and organizations' advertisements are you distributing to which
02:26:30television channels, according to whom, and on what basis?"
02:26:33Mehmet Şimşek's answer came as an interesting one.
02:26:36May I request his answer, dear director Murat Erdoğan?
02:26:40The question is: "What is the annual distribution
02:26:43of advertising and promotion budgets transferred to television
02:26:46channels by Turkish Airlines, Ziraat Bank, Halk Bank,
02:26:50Vakıfbank, Botaş, and other companies with majority
02:26:53public capital in the last 5 years, broken down by institution
02:26:57and channel? Which objective criteria
02:27:00are taken as a basis when determining advertising
02:27:04and promotion budgets? For example, are ratings, reach, target
02:27:07audience, cost, effectiveness analysis, and independent media
02:27:10planning reports taken into account?" Mehmet Şimşek shares the joint
02:27:14answer of the three banks. The banks in question state:
02:27:18"The sharing of publicly
02:27:29disclosed bank financial data is not possible as
02:27:33it is considered a bank and customer secret
02:27:36under articles 73 and 159."
02:27:39Now, I don't understand this, dear Bengüşap Babaeker.
02:27:43Mahmut Tanal isn't asking how much money each person has in these banks.
02:27:47Yes. He's asking which channels
02:27:50these bank advertisements go to, and why. What's wrong with sharing this?
02:27:53Now, they base it on two articles of the banking law. We looked
02:27:57at both, and they're irrelevant, because no one's asking how much money
02:28:01anyone has, what they did, what their profit or loss is.
02:28:04We are asking about the expenditure item
02:28:08that should be the most transparent. Now, you have a product,
02:28:12and you want to sell more of it, reach
02:28:15more people, and earn more money, right?
02:28:18What will you do for this? You will promote
02:28:22yourselves in the channels that reach the widest
02:28:25audience. You will advertise. We would think these
02:28:28organizations do the same. Where should they
02:28:32advertise to reach more people, earn more,
02:28:35and reach more customers? On the most-watched channel.
02:28:39Now, if we are talking about news channels,
02:28:42Halk TV is Turkey's most-watched news channel.
02:28:46There is only one measurement institution, and according
02:28:50to its calculations, Halk TV is always first.
02:28:53Halk TV has not received any advertisements from public
02:28:56institutions for 5-6 years. So, on what basis are you giving
02:28:59them? Now, Mahmut Tanal also asked this: on what basis
02:29:03are you giving them? He talks about objective criteria,
02:29:07but there are no such objective criteria, because they are not
02:29:10giving their advertisements to the most-watched televisions
02:29:13or newspapers that would reach the widest customer base.
02:29:16To whom are they giving them? To the channels that
02:29:20broadcast the government's agenda and spread government propaganda.
02:29:23So, public funds
02:29:26are being transferred to only one group.
02:29:29What is the income from these advertisements? This is not
02:29:33an advertisement, it's a transfer of funds, because where do banks
02:29:36our taxes, you also pay that tax, Mr. Uğur also pays, I also
02:29:40pay, millions watching Halk TV also pay, we pay the same
02:29:43tax, there is a pool
02:29:47formed from everyone's taxes, accumulated in public institutions. And
02:29:50isn't it true that they protect and support the pro-government
02:29:54media, those pro-government media channels, in quotation marks,
02:29:58that resources are transferred, resources are clearly transferred,
02:30:01and other, like Halk TV, independent
02:30:05broadcasting organizations, the free media,
02:30:08are being punished. They are being put in an economic
02:30:11squeeze, you are being deprived of these resources, meaning these
02:30:15resources are not distributed equally.
02:30:18We don't even want equality. "We want it to be fair,
02:30:21look at the ratings, if we don't have
02:30:24ratings, if we don't have viewers, then don't give it,"
02:30:27it's said. So, the criterion here is not ratings,
02:30:31we understood that. The criterion here is actually whether you are broadcasting
02:30:34under the guidance of the government. Now, there's an interesting thing
02:30:38in the answer here that probably caught Mr. Dündar's attention:
02:30:42three banks are mentioned. It says, Ziraat Bank, Halk Bank,
02:30:45Vakıfbank. Mr. Dündar makes a joint statement
02:30:49on their behalf, Mr. Şimşek but he doesn't mention Turkish Airlines
02:30:52and Botaş at all. He clearly hasn't fully understood
02:30:56the issue of bank accounts, Mr. Şimşek. So, nobody's
02:31:00deposits there are being questioned, but... Hey, and there's no
02:31:03answer for Botaş in this reply. Why do you think not?
02:31:07I agree with Ms. Bengü's statement,
02:31:09and I will add one more point.
02:31:13Halk TV is first
02:31:16in ratings among
02:31:19news channels.
02:31:22But maybe they can say, "Brother,
02:31:25you may be watched a lot, but
02:31:28for us, viewers with high purchasing power
02:31:31are important." If they say, "We take
02:31:34this as a basis," then Halk
02:31:37TV is watched by all electoral
02:31:41strata, all citizen strata,
02:31:45especially by citizens with high purchasing power,
02:31:48in the same way. In all categories,
02:31:51Halk TV is always
02:31:54first. Therefore, I agree with
02:31:58Ms. Bengü again, the pro-government
02:32:01media is subsidized with public
02:32:05resources. Yes, in democracies all
02:32:08over the world, especially newspapers supporting
02:32:12the government do not sell much. Opposition
02:32:15newspapers gain prestige and are in demand,
02:32:19because journalism, by its very nature,
02:32:22involves opposition. Everything, when everything is
02:32:26fine and rosy, it's not news.
02:32:29Anything that is malfunctioning, broken,
02:32:32and needs to be fixed is news, and
02:32:36journalists reflect these for the public's right to
02:32:40know the truth. Thus, with
02:32:43the transfer of public resources to pro-government
02:32:46media, Halk TV, which actually
02:32:50deserves to benefit from those resources,
02:32:53has real ratings, and always maintains
02:32:56its first place in all categories,
02:32:59is being punished. Therefore, Halk TV
02:33:03viewers are also being punished, and of course, it's impossible
02:33:06for us to accept this. I absolutely do not agree with
02:33:10Mr. Şimşek's assessment. Public resources are also,
02:33:14as Ms. Bengü said, your money, my money. But it says it's a public
02:33:18resource secret, meaning our editorial policy can support pro-government
02:33:21newspapers, but this is a
02:33:24choice and a patronage choice. The owner covers it
02:33:27from their own pocket, subsidizes
02:33:30it. But when it comes to the distribution
02:33:33of public resources, it is the primary
02:33:37duty, the main duty, of those who use
02:33:39those resources to be fair. Ms. Benkö, it's
02:33:42not transparent, it's not auditable. This is
02:33:46clear, I understand that from this answer. So, these institutions,
02:33:49based on what, give advertisements? We can't
02:33:52ask that, we can't audit it, it's not transparent, it's not fair, isn't that his admission?
02:33:56You ask, but you don't get an answer, for example, in fires,
02:33:59opposition MPs submit motions for questions,
02:34:10The advertising expenditure of only two public banks in the
02:34:14first three months, Mr. Uğur, is 1 billion 65 million
02:34:17lira. 1 billion 65 million lira, from this,
02:34:21not a single lira went to Halk TV. For example, where
02:34:24did the advertising and promotion expenditure go? It went to
02:34:28televisions that are never watched, to newspapers that are never
02:34:31read, never read at all.
02:34:35What are 73 and 159, Ertuğun? What does it say here?
02:34:39Bank and customer secret. We are not asking about customer secrets,
02:34:42right? So, could Mr. Şimşek have misunderstood? I mean, trying
02:34:46to deflect the issue by bringing up articles
02:34:49of law that are not related to the content of the issue, about
02:34:52privacy and trade secrets. But the incident in question
02:34:56here is different. It's not a question that falls under
02:34:59personal data protection, Mr. Tanal, so a customer... "Stating
02:35:03how many minutes of advertising was given to which channel
02:35:07is not a trade secret at all, it's not a banking activity
02:35:10at all. As you just gave an example with the parliamentary
02:35:14question, you ask this, and for a state institution to say, 'this
02:35:17channel received this many minutes, that channel received that many minutes', there is no legal obstacle to
02:35:21that, Professor. You know, there's no need for an official statement. A few months ago, when there
02:35:25was the transition to 5G technology, a campaign was run,
02:35:28did you see how much advertising was given in that campaign?"
02:35:32institutions and where did they give it? Did you
02:35:36see a single second of advertising on Halk TV screens?
02:35:40There was a tremendous transfer of resources for that 5G transition,
02:35:43and all institutions ran huge campaigns. Again,
02:35:46it's visible even in that campaign where these
02:35:49advertisements are going. Ali Gökçek, you took notes,
02:35:53but do you have anything to add? Well, let's say the first
02:35:56question was not
02:35:58answered. Let's say it's a trade
02:36:02secret about which television channel the money was transferred to. There's another question that says,
02:36:06"what criteria is this based on?" Why
02:36:09is this a trade secret? I don't understand that. For example,
02:36:12Mehmet Şimşek could have given
02:36:15an answer like this: "The amount transferred to a television
02:36:18channel is a trade secret, however, when we determine
02:36:22these channels, we base it on such and such criteria."
02:36:25This is not a trade secret, but the reason he cannot
02:36:28give an answer is that there are no
02:36:31neutral criteria. There is no
02:36:34criterion to explain why no advertisements,
02:36:37not even one lira, are given to a television news
02:36:41channel that ranks first in every rating,
02:36:43in every measurement. So, there is no such
02:36:47criterion. And because there is no such criterion,
02:36:50they hide behind trade secrets, as they do with all our questions.
02:36:54But honestly, these places are not anyone's father's companies.
02:36:58There is no such thing as a trade secret when we are talking about a public bank. Also, there is this: how
02:37:02can you create a competitive environment
02:37:05and give cheaper advertisements
02:37:09without negotiating with all channels and getting
02:37:12advertising prices from them? If you don't do this, then isn't there a public
02:37:16loss here? If it's a public bank, then if these banks
02:37:19belong to all of us, by not creating competition,
02:37:23you are also creating a public loss here. Perhaps
02:37:26for a one-minute advertisement, while you pay 100 liras there,
02:37:30you could reach more people for 90 liras, perhaps more
02:37:33people for 50 liras. They are hiding behind
02:37:36the excuse of being
02:37:39a trade secret, but as we all know, as you have
02:37:42also said... They use public resources
02:37:46to feed their crony channels, and public banks and public
02:37:49institutions are the best examples of this, because as you
02:37:53asked, the trade secret
02:37:56is over. Furthermore, private banks, let's say
02:38:00a private bank was defrauded by an x businessman
02:38:03to whom they gave a loan. I
02:38:06don't think this is a newsworthy
02:38:09event. Between two people or the bank
02:38:13and that swindler... it is actually
02:38:16an indication of a judicial
02:38:19process that needs to be carried out, meaning it's an issue
02:38:22that needs to be resolved in court. But when it comes
02:38:25to siphoning off public bank resources or
02:38:29distributing their resources,
02:38:31this concerns us greatly,
02:38:35because public resources consist of money that belongs
02:38:38to the unfeathered orphan, meaning
02:38:41it's the money of the whole nation. Therefore...
02:38:45"To give the nation's money fairly to those who
02:38:48deserve it means having superior
02:38:51leadership qualities. Yes, so this is a joint
02:38:55statement on behalf of the three banks. As I said, no statement was made on behalf of Turkish
02:38:59Airlines and Botaş. So, is it also a trade secret for Turkish Airlines,
02:39:03for example, where it advertises and to whom? Or for
02:39:06Botaş, which is one of the other companies with a majority
02:39:09of public capital. Why can't we know which channel
02:39:13Turkish Airlines' advertisements are for and based on what?"
02:39:17reply is so nonsensical, Sinem, I mean, it's so nonsensical,
02:39:21they just gave them a random file. I mean, generally, Mr.
02:39:25Ali knows this too, in recent years, this is the fate
02:39:28of all parliamentary questions. Most of them are not answered at all.
02:39:32Those that are answered, they just say "secret"
02:39:34and move on. They answer half of it, a quarter of it, and they answer
02:39:38it incorrectly. Anyway, thank you very much, Bengü Şap, general
02:39:41director of halktv.com, thank you for your contribution.
02:39:45While she's here, I can also say a couple of things, if
02:39:49she has two or three more minutes. I mean, it's not really
02:39:52my area of expertise, but
02:39:56sit down
02:39:58in the evening, I zap through the channels, I look at them. For example,
02:40:01many have opened YouTube, for example, any
02:40:05channel, five or six people sitting around discussing
02:40:09a political issue, it says 56 people are watching. Now,
02:40:12if he tells his wife, his children, his neighbors,
02:40:24it would be 150-200 people. For example, this comes to my mind:
02:40:28the state gives treasury aid to political parties, right? There's a
02:40:31condition for that. Okay, good, there's a good condition, you must have received at least 3%
02:40:35of the votes, you must have been established such and such time ago, etc. Now,
02:40:38if you are giving a reward for getting 3% of the votes,
02:40:41then take the viewership rates here, calculate the monthly
02:40:45average. In all groups and categories, A, B, AB, etc., look,
02:40:48distribute it equally according to that. It's that simple, Professor.
02:40:52Professor, if these public banks or public
02:40:56institutions had given advertisements to Halk TV, Mr.
02:40:59Mehmet Şimşek would have proudly
02:41:03explained the answer to this question, of course,
02:41:06because the fact that these advertisements
02:41:09were distributed fairly would have emerged.
02:41:12As I said, Halk TV is watched a lot,
02:41:15and it is watched by viewers from all
02:41:18segments of society, from those with high purchasing
02:41:22power to all layers of society, in every category.
02:41:25When you look at it objectively, when you evaluate
02:41:29it with an outside perspective, it becomes
02:41:33clear that Halk TV is the organization that
02:41:36should receive the most public advertisements among news
02:41:39channels. Now, there are huge public banks, let's
02:41:43not list their names one by one. Here, they offer salary promotions,
02:41:46trying to tie pensioners to themselves. Ordinary citizens deposit, businessmen deposit,
02:41:50the businessman who pays his taxes has deposited his money in that public
02:41:53bank. The ordinary pensioner goes and gets his salary,
02:41:57but if these people watch Halk TV, why shouldn't
02:42:01they see the advertisement of the bank they have been working
02:42:05with and have shown loyalty to for years? No, of course,
02:42:08I, for example, get my retirement salary from a public bank,
02:42:11but that public bank does not advertise
02:42:14on Halk TV. If this is not unfair, what is?
02:42:17Also, Mr. Uğur, those who make this decision are public
02:42:21employees, meaning they will be responsible for even 1 lira
02:42:24of public money. You must state according to what
02:42:28criteria you made the payment. As you mentioned earlier,
02:42:31if millions of liras in advertising money
02:42:34are given to a channel watched by 56 people, this is a matter
02:42:38for criminal investigation. So, by what decision did you do this? By what criteria
02:42:42did you give this person so much advertising, so much allowance? Because the money
02:42:45you gave is public money. There would be a heavy punishment, a trial
02:42:49for this. So, we need to speak considering these. Why did we
02:42:52go all the way to the Swiss banks and uncover Engin Cıvan's,
02:42:56the General Manager of Emlak Bank, bribe account
02:43:00and headline it as "Document of Bribery"? Because,
02:43:03as I said, he was the General Manager of a public
02:43:07bank, which held the rights of the unfeathered
02:43:10orphan, and he was responsible
02:43:12for siphoning off the public
02:43:15bank's money. Well, thank you very much, Bengü Şap.
02:43:18Thank you for your contributions. We are saying goodbye
02:43:21to you. Thank you very much. Şükrü Şahin, do you have
02:43:24anything to add to this issue?
02:43:27Of course, I mean, Mr. Uğur also stated,
02:43:31look, in the past,
02:43:33even when many important news stories were made
02:43:37that were perceived as negative for these banks or any
02:43:41institution or political institution, it was not
02:43:44possible to have such a reduction in advertising
02:43:48sharing, I mean, reducing public institutions'
02:43:51advertisements to broadcasting organizations, because
02:43:55this would gather a lot
02:43:58of reactions. Moreover,
02:44:01these news stories were considered
02:44:03as a fundamental principle of journalism.
02:44:06Today, if you are doing
02:44:10journalism that propagates the government's understanding,
02:44:13then you deserve advertisements,
02:44:16especially from public institutions.
02:44:19But if you are not acting
02:44:23in the understanding of "Her Majesty's Opposition,"
02:44:26then you don't have the right to advertise.
02:44:29This actually means destroying the public's
02:44:33right to information. This means destroying
02:44:36journalism, destroying journalistic
02:44:39ethical principles. In this way, you
02:44:42are directing journalists towards a single type
02:44:46of understanding, and we have experienced many
02:44:49examples of this. We see, unfortunately,
02:44:53that all broadcasting organizations that receive
02:44:56advertisements use the same headlines and the same news.
02:44:59And unfortunately, the government, especially
02:45:02the AK Party government, we did not see such
02:45:05examples in previous periods,
02:45:08has also taken the path of controlling
02:45:11the media by benefiting unfairly
02:45:15from the advertising pie. This is both an unfair
02:45:18practice and an practice that destroys
02:45:22journalistic principles, but most
02:45:26importantly, as I said,
02:45:30it is a situation that prevents. So, Mehmet
02:45:33Şimşek's answer
02:45:35is a very sad answer, to be honest. I mean,
02:45:38we can't seem to see those expected
02:45:42rational moves from Mehmet Şimşek,
02:45:44Ms. Sinem. He could even
02:45:48have said, "There is war
02:45:52around us, there are crises. Because of these
02:45:55crises, the opposition channel should also give
02:45:59us money, because they cannot see how much
02:46:03we are struggling in this crisis." He could
02:46:06also think that. But of course, I'm making a joke,
02:46:09I admit it's a bad joke, but unfortunately,
02:46:12this is the situation we've reached. Today, the media,
02:46:16which you discussed in the first part, is why,
02:46:20it is for that reason
02:46:23that from the media or column writing, if you become
02:46:27a presidential candidate in this country,
02:46:30you should fear imprisonment,
02:46:34you should experience the feeling of being incarcerated.
02:46:37If one of those who gives you
02:46:40this is the media, if it's given through
02:46:44the media, then it's truly a
02:46:47media profile rarely seen or unprecedented
02:46:51in the world. It's a very sad
02:46:54situation, but Turkey
02:46:57has come to this state regarding media
02:47:00in the last 20 years, they say, "It's a shame,
02:47:03it's a sin." Indeed, it is a shame and a sin,
02:47:07and the people are again the losers,
02:47:13because inflation calculations would never have been criticized
02:47:16until today, and people would
02:47:20not have seen how minimum wages and retirement
02:47:23pensions were calculated low, just with
02:47:26a simple example. Please, Ertun Çözün,
02:47:30we are talking about the media, we are talking about the unequal
02:47:33distribution in the media. I just saw
02:47:36Abdülkadir's post, no, when we saw
02:47:39his article, Mr. Bey also said, Ali Bey too, if an opposition
02:47:43figure had done this, a file would be opened for openly spreading
02:47:47misleading information. Because you are talking about the threat
02:47:50of prison with a presidential candidacy. And today, Mansur
02:47:54Yavaş's press consultant shared a post saying, "These are
02:47:57entirely Abdülkadir Selvi's fantasy." And Abdülkadir
02:48:01Selvi himself reposted it, meaning he accepted it.
02:48:05Despite that, there's nothing about his post, right? But
02:48:09if an opposition journalist had done the same, "let's
02:48:12say it was evaluated within the scope of press
02:48:16freedom. I wish the opposition was also viewed that
02:48:18way, and Abdülkadir's denial
02:48:21made by the press consultant of the Mayor
02:48:25of Ankara, sharing it on his own social
02:48:28media account, let's consider it as
02:48:31responsible journalism. Yes, make a correction. In fact,
02:48:35Ms. Sinema, let's look at this issue in this way:
02:48:38it is a concrete indicator of how the
02:48:41power of the parliament has fallen,
02:48:45especially after the transition to the presidential system.
02:48:49For this reason, was it possible, Mr. Uğur also remembers
02:48:53well, for an MP to ask a question and the minister
02:48:56not to answer it within 15 days, and not to answer
02:48:59it with the correct information? But today, I saw the other
02:49:03day, no statement was made. For example, the Minister
02:49:06of Justice, it hasn't been a year yet, has it? 900 questions
02:49:10have been asked, but no question has been answered
02:49:14yet. For example, this is actually an indicator
02:49:17of how much the respect of the parliament or the
02:49:20supervisory power of MPs has been reduced. Mehmet
02:49:23Şimşek's failure to answer this question is also a
02:49:26very concrete example of how much the parliament's
02:49:30power has been reduced. Thank you. Now, one of the hot letters,
02:49:34notes, and issues of politics.
02:49:37Meanwhile, my editor Alper
02:49:40sent me a message. Okay, soon, Serra Karaçam will give
02:49:43us an important note from the United States. But until
02:49:47then, until she's ready, statements continue to come
02:49:51from the AK Party Headquarters regarding the candidacy
02:49:54of the President. After the President used the
02:49:57phrase "upcoming elections" in his hometown of Rize,
02:50:01while there was a debate about whether there would
02:50:04be an early or snap election, Erdoğan's candidacy
02:50:07was also opened to
02:50:10debate once again. For example, Alihsan
02:50:14Yavuz, the Deputy Chairman in charge of Electoral Affairs,
02:50:17stated that there is no legal or constitutional
02:50:20obstacle to Erdoğan's candidacy, and that he
02:50:24can be a candidate again for the 2028 elections,
02:50:27which will be brought forward by a week in the parliament.
02:50:31Today, Abdülhamit Gül, one of the important figures
02:50:34and group deputy chairman, made a statement. If I'm
02:50:38not mistaken, in visual 8, Mr. Gül says:
02:50:41"One of the important consensuses of our nation
02:50:43is that our President continues his path as
02:50:47President and leads Turkey to a stronger leadership.
02:50:50I believe that this demand and expectation of our
02:50:54nation will find a response in our Grand National Assembly.
02:50:57We have full faith that the expectation of our
02:51:00nation for our President to be re-elected as
02:51:03President will be met with the decision of our Assembly."
02:51:07He points to the parliament. Now, we all know, more or less, that
02:51:41within a month, it emerged with
02:51:44one of his articles. Correct,
02:51:48Tayyip Erdoğan doesn't need to be re-elected.
02:51:52However, it emerged with the idea that Turkey
02:51:56needs to re-elect Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
02:51:59Mehmet Bey generally starts these things,
02:52:03regarding throwing out an issue, and then other AK Party
02:52:07officials follow. Here,
02:52:10they are talking about taking the MPs to early elections.
02:52:14This is a method
02:52:17of inviting our Grand National Assembly, as
02:52:21Abdülhamit Bey said, our Grand National Assembly,
02:52:24to a trick, nothing else. We determined the constitution.
02:52:28When we determined the constitution,
02:52:31no one, even our president at the time was
02:52:34known, but they said we do
02:52:38not find it right for Recep Tayyip Erdoğan
02:52:41to be president more than twice. Was the AK Party
02:52:44not in power when this constitution was determined? Was the AK Party
02:52:48not in power when this article
02:52:50was written? Why was this article put there today?
02:52:54In the country, something different develops, and
02:52:58MPs need to dissolve the parliament. In that
02:53:01case, the presidential term can be done again,
02:53:05it is not considered the second. They say, "Okay,
02:53:08very good." Today, he says that they are trying
02:53:11to circumvent the criterion they set themselves,
02:53:15that it shouldn't be done more than twice, with a trick.
02:53:18"We wrote this constitution, we determined it. We also
02:53:21think that it is not right for a president
02:53:25to serve more than twice. inviting him to elect a third term,
02:53:28this is the discourse. Why don't they openly say it? I mean,
02:53:32no, Turkey needs it. Turkey doesn't need Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to be a candidate
02:53:36again, brother.
02:53:38Since you introduced the Presidential system
02:53:42in 2018, name one thing that has gone well in the country.
02:53:45In health, education, or economy,
02:53:49we see what state we are in. Since 2018, not one thing has gone well.
02:53:52There is nothing. Does it need to happen again? Turkey doesn't need such a thing.
02:53:56Turkey needs change. The Grand National Assembly does not need to make anyone president
02:53:59again by violating the constitution through a trick.
02:54:03Mr. Abdulhamit Gül's discourse, of course,
02:54:06may be consistent for him,
02:54:09but he is inviting the assembly to a trick.
02:54:12Now, Professor Mitat, actually, in the media
02:54:16close to the government, when the election issue comes up,
02:54:20calendar-wise, it's either November 2027.
02:54:32One of the two necessary conditions for him to be a candidate again is either a constitutional amendment
02:54:36or an early election decision. Now, when the President used the phrase "approaching elections," it was asked if an
02:54:40early election was on the horizon, but today, Ömer Çelik said after the MYK
02:54:43meeting that there is no election on our agenda, so
02:54:46amendment. So
02:54:50all these things are now being said louder.
02:54:56I don't think he will take the risk of a constitutional amendment. This is also possible,
02:55:00but what seems more likely to me is that
02:55:03when he says "we are going to an early election," the opposition will say,
02:55:07"Where did this election come from? Are you running away from the election?" So, when he puts forward the early election
02:55:10thesis, everyone may have to accept it.
02:55:14Therefore, 360
02:55:17will be found, so when the parliament makes a decision,
02:55:21you know, the mileage. In 2018, they reset it, the clock was reset,
02:55:252014-2018 was not counted.
02:55:272018-2023 is the first term,
02:55:3123-20... 28 is the second term.
02:55:34If he gets an early election in the second term by parliamentary decision, he can be a candidate
02:55:38again. Therefore, since the mileage started
02:55:41in 2018, when the parliament finds 360
02:55:45and makes an early election decision, no legal obstacle is seen,
02:55:48even if it is controversial in terms of legitimacy. Three dots side by side.
02:55:53But now, he says, for example, his words are very important,
02:55:56"This demand of our nation," Abdülhamit Gül's "this demand
02:55:59and expectation of our nation, I believe, will be met in the Grand National Assembly."
02:56:02So, they will bring an early election to the parliament,
02:56:05meaning the constitutional amendment is frozen.
02:56:09Of course, now what can happen? For example, what
02:56:13argument can they use, my dear Sinem? Now, if you strain
02:56:16your memory, about a year and a half ago, Mr. Mehmet Uçun,
02:56:20the chief advisor responsible for law, said
02:56:24durum falan dedi bu çok önemli
02:56:27especially those interested in political science
02:56:30and political sociology know this well.
02:56:34There is a very famous political sociologist named Carl Schmitt, who lived
02:56:38in the 1930s. Carl Schmitt has a thesis of exceptional
02:56:41situation. Sometimes, in any
02:56:45state, while the parliament is open, that is,
02:56:48while the political mechanism is operating within a democratic order,
02:56:53"such exceptional situations occur," he says, "that you can fill in the blanks: a regional
02:56:56crisis, a war, any tension. At that time,
02:56:59the sovereign is actually
02:57:03the one who decides." "That is, the parliament
02:57:06and everything can decide without going through
02:57:09the whole process. In this exceptional situation, the one who decides is the sovereign,
02:57:13and they must decide." This thesis has actually paved
02:57:16the way for more authoritarian regimes. Now, these are being taken off
02:57:19the shelf again, Carl Schmitt is being rewritten, and doctoral theses are being written
02:57:23on it. Now, I don't think Mr. Mehmet Uçun used this
02:57:26coincidentally. So, we should actually look not only at
02:57:30internal dynamics but also at external dynamics in such an election
02:57:33process. These external dynamics must
02:57:37be observed very carefully. I also agree with my professor.
02:57:41Also, in Turkish politics, the perspective
02:57:44of those in power
02:57:48is "yesterday is yesterday, today is today." So,
02:57:51"we will do what today requires." And
02:57:55this never changes. Did you finish?
02:57:58Yesterday was yesterday. Ah, yes, yes, by the way,
02:58:02the new party's Istanbul Deputy, thank you very much
02:58:05for your contributions. We will be saying goodbye to you. I will turn to Mr.
02:58:08Küçükşahin. Don't look at your watch, you are still here,
02:58:12I see. I see to the left when I look to the right. Ali Gökçek, I will say
02:58:15something for about 15 seconds. Of course, please.
02:58:19I mean, when talking about the new party,
02:58:22especially in our democracy, it's the first time
02:58:25that a political party has been established from scratch and has reached
02:58:28such a high vote share in such a short
02:58:32period. This fact
02:58:35should never be overlooked when evaluating
02:58:38the new party. I mean,
02:58:42such a rise in votes
02:58:45and voter preference
02:58:48has not been seen in the establishment of
02:58:51another political party to this extent. Even the Justice and Development Party,
02:58:54in the elections of 2003,
02:58:57November 3, 2002, it came to
02:59:00power in 2003.
02:59:04Even then, it barely managed to reach this vote share, didn't
02:59:08it, professor? Yes, I mean, after separating from the main body,
02:59:11consider the Democratic Party that separated from the Justice Party, consider the Republican Trust
02:59:15Party that separated from the Republican People's Party. For any party that separates
02:59:18from the main body, I completely agree, such a rapid increase in votes
02:59:22in such a short time is not rare, it's almost unseen.
02:59:26We need to acknowledge that,
02:59:29but it was forced to separate,
02:59:32like an absolute historical event.
02:59:38If the difference in the Istanbul elections, which was 13,000, increased to 800,000
02:59:41in a month, a month and a half, then after such an unfair
02:59:44and unlawful decision, a party that has become the first party in Turkey's history
02:59:47emerged stronger as a new party. We can also see this as
02:59:51voter insight. Şükrü
02:59:54Küçükşahin, is Erdoğan's candidacy being made an issue on purpose?
02:59:58What do you say?
03:00:01First of all, I think there is a coded word here.
03:00:05That is, the example Mr. Uğur mentioned about the new
03:00:08party becoming the first party just a week or a few days after
03:00:12its establishment, I think its source is
03:00:15its legitimacy. That is, this party was established
03:00:19as a result of legitimate and legitimate necessities.
03:00:22All illegitimate initiatives
03:00:26have gathered the public's reaction for that reason.
03:00:29The new party became the first party due
03:00:33to its current situation.
03:00:36Now, an election will be held
03:00:40today. No one should
03:00:43worry about this. The lands of Anatolia
03:00:47have been very experienced and very conscious about the ballot box
03:00:51for 150 years. Especially
03:00:54it will never forgive the slightest
03:00:57disrespect to its will. It will
03:01:01punish it excessively. Now,
03:01:05whether there will be an early election on this date or that date,
03:01:08whether 360 will be found or not, whether it will be 400
03:01:12or not, you know, all these things can happen
03:01:15hypothetically. Of course, but
03:01:18I think this will be a coercion and it will not have legitimacy.
03:01:21If you are talking about an early election, it should be held at least
03:01:25a year in advance. Otherwise, if you are not going
03:01:29to hold an early election, then
03:01:32I think this would be going beyond legitimacy. In what
03:01:36sense? In terms of getting the will of the people
03:01:39behind you. Especially in this area, I say.
03:01:43Now, you will transfer
03:01:46deputies, and
03:01:49you will try to suppress the opposition
03:01:53by using all your power. And
03:01:55in this way, you will say that this
03:01:58early election decision is an early election if we do it
03:02:01a month earlier, or a week earlier.
03:02:05Believe me, this will have no legitimacy
03:02:08in the eyes of the people, and it should be known
03:02:12that Turkey has been experiencing a crisis
03:02:15for a long time. This is not just an economic crisis,
03:02:19I'm saying, a crisis of political
03:02:22trust is also being experienced, a crisis in terms of state
03:02:25administration is also being experienced. All of these
03:02:28are happening before the eyes of society. Society
03:02:31also wants to get out of this crisis.
03:02:34They have also seen that it is not possible to get out of this crisis
03:02:38with the system created in the last 10 years. So, the system needs to be changed.
03:02:41That is, change is needed. That is, doing something
03:02:45new, saying something new, making
03:02:48a new proposal is needed. The current government
03:02:51does not leave a positive impression
03:02:55regarding any of these issues. On the contrary, as I said
03:02:58earlier, it feels the need to sideline
03:03:02the opposition through illegitimate
03:03:05means. It does this in every area of life. I mean, Ms. Sinem,
03:03:08what we have seen in Üsküdar in the last few
03:03:11days, what we have seen in Adana Yüreğir, or the political ban
03:03:15and prison sentence given to Ekrem İmamoğlu after
03:03:18he was acquitted twice, we have seen the conditions. I think
03:03:21all these also increase
03:03:25this legitimacy discussion I mentioned earlier,
03:03:29and all these
03:03:32are happening before the eyes of society. Turkey has been experiencing
03:03:35inflation
03:03:37chronically,
03:03:40excuse me, we are listening to you. Your voice went out and came back.
03:03:43No, another voice was added in between.
03:03:47"I apologize. Turkey, look, I always give this example,
03:03:51there is no other country in the world that has fought inflation for such
03:03:55a long time. It has become chronic.
03:03:57Turkey's economic problems have also become chronic. All of these happened
03:04:01during this government's term. While all these are happening,
03:04:05if the market has
03:04:07even stopped being a place where ordinary people
03:04:11go to shop the most, if the market seller
03:04:15is closing their stall,
03:04:18if people can't go there to shop,
03:04:22if that's also due to high prices, then you
03:04:25really can't achieve legitimacy with things like transferring
03:04:29deputies or these types
03:04:31of operations carried out in municipalities. Can you put a comma
03:04:35for a moment, dear Şükrü Küçükşahin? Please put a comma now,
03:04:38because it's important for a unified statement. Oh, is that so?
03:04:42Then you should still put the comma, because
03:04:46our masters... There was a meeting. The Minister of Justice held
03:04:49a meeting at the White House. Its details are related to voting by mail,
03:04:53but since you will be leaving at the end of this hour,
03:04:56I would like to get your final evaluation.
03:04:59So, about the agenda, please, professor. Is that so?
03:05:03Before connecting, yes, please. I mean,
03:05:06I agree with what Mr. Şükrü said. A change, etc.
03:05:10What are we talking about? Why is there a need
03:05:14to oppose? What dynamic and parameter do we look at?
03:05:17We are saying there are 14 trillion lira interest payments in the next 3 years.
03:05:20So, in 2020,
03:05:23in 2027, approximately 3 trillion 865
03:05:27billion, in 2028, 4 trillion 170
03:05:30billion, and in 2029, around 4 trillion 300
03:05:34345 billion. When you add them up, there are about 14 million 14 trillion
03:05:38interest payments. Now, so that the audience doesn't get confused, let me say this: for every 100 lira
03:05:41in the budget, everyone pays taxes, 19 lira
03:05:4519.43 kuruş goes to interest,
03:05:48only 9.95 kuruş goes to investment.
03:05:51So, half of the interest goes to investment.
03:05:55That's why the unemployment rate has reached 31% of society.
03:05:58That's why there is such impoverishment, as we talked about earlier.
03:06:02That's why there is a major distortion in income distribution
03:06:06that cannot be fixed. That's why the middle class has disappeared
03:06:09and is rapidly moving towards the lower segment. So,
03:06:13society actually needs change to
03:06:17help the unemployed with diplomas,
03:06:20those we call unemployed with no school, no university,
03:06:24no home. To re-establish the dreams
03:06:27of all these young people, to re-establish social peace,
03:06:30for the social consensus, the social consent we call
03:06:33"rıza," to be realized again, for people to regain
03:06:37the smiles they have lost, change is, of course, needed.
03:06:40As long as the parties
03:06:43that are in favor of change can present
03:06:47a compact formula that everyone
03:06:51can understand and can truly
03:06:54embrace the future with hope. Let me get a final evaluation
03:06:57from you too, professor. I think the Justice and Development
03:07:01Party's efforts, especially against
03:07:04the new party, which can be considered
03:07:07anti-democratic, will not bring advantage to the party.
03:07:11I think that initiatives
03:07:14and phenomena that have not derived their legitimacy from the ballot box
03:07:18will not be enough to keep a political
03:07:21party in power. I am evaluating this,
03:07:24and as an example, I show this:
03:07:27How was the Justice and Development Party founded? It was founded
03:07:30by breaking away from the Welfare Party,
03:07:34from that main body. The Welfare Party,
03:07:37which was previously led by the late Professor
03:07:40Necmettin Erbakan, that political view
03:07:43became the Welfare Party with the closure of various
03:07:46parties. Then, after Welfare, it became Fazilet. So, yes,
03:07:50National Salvation,
03:07:52National Order, National
03:07:55Salvation, Welfare, Fazilet.
03:07:58It became Fazilet. If bans
03:08:02or what we can call anti-democratic initiatives
03:08:05could prevent a political formation from coming
03:08:09to power, Mr. Tayyip Erdoğan's Justice and Development
03:08:13Party could not have come to power in the first election
03:08:16it entered. Therefore, but
03:08:19the members of the government should always keep this
03:08:23fact in mind for their own
03:08:26political future and power,
03:08:30and for our democratic
03:08:33life, it is very important,
03:08:36very valuable. I also have a request for Halk TV
03:08:40viewers, I want to address you. As you saw
03:08:43earlier, Halk TV draws its strength from you,
03:08:46dear viewers. It has no other
03:08:50support than you. Halk TV, like the name of this program,
03:08:53is an uncensored television. Look, in this
03:08:57studio where we are currently speaking,
03:09:00there is no prompter in front of any camera.
03:09:03The faces of Halk TV do not
03:09:06read a pre-written script by looking at the prompter.
03:09:09They freely express
03:09:13their thoughts within the framework
03:09:16of their personal professional responsibilities. While doing this,
03:09:20they strictly adhere to universal
03:09:23professional principles. Therefore,
03:09:26I ask you to continue to increase your support for Halk TV,
03:09:31because Turkey desperately needs
03:09:33Halk TV to continue its existence in order
03:09:37to breathe a democratic atmosphere. Mr. Dündar, you touched upon
03:09:40such a beautiful and accurate point that it is also perfectly aligned with today's
03:09:44topics. That's why I actually call Halk TV viewers "Great Halk TV viewers,"
03:09:48like "Great Fenerbahçe fans." Great Halk TV
03:09:51viewers. I mean, yes, not a single penny comes
03:09:55from public institutions and organizations, but they have such
03:09:59a preference and respect
03:10:02and love that in all my years in this profession, of course, my career
03:10:06is nothing compared to yours, but I have never seen such a thing, such
03:10:10Akdeniz, welcome. I couldn't say welcome to you so as not to interrupt
03:10:14my professors. Good broadcast to all of us. What did you say, Sena?
03:10:17Of course not.
03:10:21We will take Serra every hour. Serra
03:10:24will soon inform us about the latest developments from the United
03:10:27States. Thank you very much. We will watch. I dropped my pen.
03:10:31We will watch on the way. I will write down the developments for you,
03:10:35and you can open them on the way. Director, if we can leave early and come back early, let's do it.
03:10:39Is that so? Okay, Mr. Ercüment, let's start with an introduction, but
03:10:42for one minute. Why has the general headquarters started
03:10:46making statements about the President's candidacy, one after another?
03:10:49Statements are coming that there is no legal or constitutional obstacle.
03:10:53I think the normative situation,
03:10:57the regular situation, is behind us. They will enter this process as
03:11:00they wish. I don't think they are legitimate either.
03:11:04For the opposition, will they say no
03:11:08to an early election, said Mr. Mitat Hoca?
03:11:11I mean, they will use that.
03:11:13This is how they are entering. I think the main
03:11:17problem is that they will enter the election by magnifying
03:11:21the opposition's legitimacy issue. Now, as I was going on air,
03:11:24we were constantly messaging. Today is a disastrous situation.
03:11:27Yesterday, today, now my journalist
03:11:31friends are being asked to be arrested because they reported
03:11:35in Georgia. Yes, we are giving Kaos GL's Instagram.
03:11:38Mr. Ercüment, you made a very important introduction. Thank you
03:11:42again very much, Mr. Dündar. See you next Tuesday.
03:11:45Professor Mitat, thank you very much. See you very soon.
03:11:49Let's take a short break at 3 o'clock. Let's come back at the top of the hour.
03:11:51gelelim.
03:12:04Accessing current news instantly is now very easy.
03:12:07Open WhatsApp and find the updates tab. In the search
03:12:11bar, type Halk TV. Find the Halk TV
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03:12:41Yes, we are starting the 4th hour. We are discussing the hot topics
03:12:45of domestic politics, but we will go to Washington,
03:12:48because there was a very important meeting at the White House.
03:12:52The person who held the meeting was the Minister of Justice, because
03:12:55no one is unaware of Trump's demand, especially
03:12:59for voting by mail, before the elections
03:13:03to be held in November. Therefore,
03:13:05the statement to be made by the Minister of Justice today
03:13:09and the messages he would give at the press conference were
03:13:12also important. And with all its splendor,
03:13:15my dear Serra Karaçam, Halk TV's Washington correspondent,
03:13:18will inform us about everything that happened there with her smiling face.
03:13:22Now, should we start with the Minister of Justice holding
03:13:26a meeting at the White House? Or should we go
03:13:29to where the voting by mail issue will evolve?
03:13:33I'll immediately give you the floor, dear Serra.
03:13:35You can explain. Yes, thank you very much. Today was really
03:13:39an unusual sight. The Minister of Justice choosing
03:13:43the White House as the venue for his press conference. The White House press secretary
03:13:47left his position after having a second child, but actually, the main
03:13:50reason is said to be that after President
03:13:54Trump left Ankara, due to security concerns,
03:13:57he left in a cargo plane instead of a passenger plane,
03:14:00and he didn't include the press secretary in that team,
03:14:03even though he knew about such a threat, thus putting him at risk.
03:14:07This is said to have led him to make this decision. After that,
03:14:11he left his position, saying he would take care of his child. For this
03:14:14reason, various government officials
03:14:17and ministers come to the White House podium and hold press conferences here, as no new name
03:14:21has been appointed. However, this situation
03:14:24is unusual for the Minister of Justice because the Minister of Justice
03:14:27is expected to be more neutral, even if they have an ideological affiliation.
03:14:31At least symbolically, they don't usually come and speak
03:14:34at the government's podium.
03:14:37The FBI can come, other directors can come
03:14:41and give information, but today, in this sense,
03:14:44the press conference in the Rose Garden of the White House
03:14:47was significant, especially since it was announced one day
03:14:51after the Supreme Court's decision. And it was something never
03:14:55seen before. It naturally
03:14:58raised new questions about independence.
03:15:02We can say that. Let's talk about the Supreme
03:15:05Court's decision regarding the USPS, which is like America's
03:15:08post office, and the rule for mail-in
03:15:11ballots. This postal institution distributes them.
03:15:15Trump signed an executive order in March
03:15:19that brought new rules that could delay their distribution.
03:15:21With this executive order, he thought he could centralize
03:15:25the authority to distribute ballots, which was previously held by the states,
03:15:28in the federal government. Objections came from
03:15:32lower courts. On August 24,
03:15:35the Supreme Court temporarily granted permission to Trump,
03:15:38but yesterday, the final decision came, and
03:15:42it was said that he could not do this because the elections would be at risk.
03:15:46Let's provide this background information. Of course, the Minister
03:15:49of Justice today said that the President's goal
03:15:52is not to prevent people from voting, not to restrict it,
03:15:56but on the contrary, he supports free and fair elections. He explained
03:16:00that "we took this step to prevent illegal voting, to prevent
03:16:02non-citizens from voting, and to prevent
03:16:06duplicate voting." Therefore,
03:16:09he gave the message that this decision
03:16:12will not hinder our efforts, and we will continue
03:16:16investigations against those who vote again or those who vote as immigrants.
03:16:19However, at least for now, the post office
03:16:23will continue to distribute the existing envelopes
03:16:26and ballots of the states. The restrictive provisions
03:16:30they wanted will not be implemented. The President's
03:16:33Minister of Justice also had other messages today,
03:16:36but if there's anything you want to ask, let me take that first, then
03:16:40that.
03:16:55Now, also with those licenses, when I heard it was a decision
03:16:59related to it, I thought it was worth asking. Yes, actually,
03:17:02there might be a small misunderstanding there, I wanted to contribute to your broadcast
03:17:06with what kind of regulations RTÜK makes here
03:17:09regarding the issue. The Minister of Justice. "No important questions
03:17:13were asked about licenses today at this meeting, but
03:17:16let me tell you right away, there is a commission here called
03:17:20FCC, like RTÜK, and as a regulatory body, this
03:17:23commission normally does not take into account the opinions
03:17:27of the officials there, editorial viewpoints, but other
03:17:31requirements such as content for children and families,
03:17:34and to guarantee true
03:17:37independence, all
03:17:41candidates must speak for an equal" amount of time,
03:17:44and if a candidate emerged from one state, their opponent should also speak for the same
03:17:48amount of minutes, to maintain balance,
03:17:52the FCC is actually an institution that performs these inspections. However,
03:17:56during this period, they had serious lawsuits
03:17:59with broadcasters, because instead of protecting
03:18:02the freedom of expression article of the constitution,
03:18:05they took steps to punish through license renewal,
03:18:09waving a stick. Especially for ABC and 8
03:18:13channels, licenses are normally
03:18:16renewed every 8 years, but they started early
03:18:19reviews before their time, and
03:18:22in a way, they made them self-censor
03:18:25with this license stick. That is, instead of
03:18:28directly banning speech, they put pressure on intermediaries,
03:18:32channels, and consequently, on the other hand,
03:18:35advertisers to the channels, banks,
03:18:38and payment systems, and indirectly
03:18:41shape them. My goodness, how far removed these things are from us,
03:18:45I mean, you're explaining it now, I can't believe it.
03:18:49I mean, there's no such thing as RTÜK and all that.
03:18:53I mean, they say it's an advanced democracy.
03:19:02As far as I understand, things are still coming back from the judiciary, let's add that. Of course,
03:19:05when did this discussion first emerge? We've been talking about the Iran war for months,
03:19:09you know, the Iran war is the number one topic even in prime
03:19:13time slots. For a long time, the administration
03:19:16has been unsuccessful regarding this Iran war,
03:19:19they made mistakes, and they started labeling some news
03:19:23as fake news.
03:19:26He told
03:19:33a reporter, "You shouldn't have a license, how can you ask if
03:19:37Iran won?" And again, there was an important
03:19:40programmer named Jimmy Kimmel on ABC, and
03:19:44he did an interview with a senator recently, but due to pressure
03:19:47on the grounds that the other person was not given enough time,
03:19:50they had to put the interview on YouTube. The channel
03:19:54could not broadcast it. So, they act as if they are supporting
03:19:56diversity, they say "we are doing it for this reason",
03:20:00but it always works for one side, it always works when there's a Democratic interview,
03:20:04because the system was not with the other side. Therefore, lawsuits are currently
03:20:07ongoing in court.
03:20:10Broadcasters, especially
03:20:13television, are given fewer rights than the written press.
03:20:17That is, while the written press has a jurisprudence that ensures
03:20:20the protection of freedom of expression, broadcasters,
03:20:24television broadcasters, do not have this. It is being reviewed again. Of course, journalists
03:20:27are also no longer satisfied, because for example, the owner of the Washington Post,
03:20:31Jeff Bezos, is known to be close to the administration,
03:20:34because he is a businessman. They also resigned from the Washington Post
03:20:37and moved to Washington San. We talked about that
03:20:41in recent days. So, this is the press part.
03:20:44Our viewers who make comparisons in the first part,
03:20:47with the comments of dear Uğur Dündar, can now combine it with
03:20:50their own thoughts
03:20:53and compare what I've explained. that they would follow us, because
03:20:56they were curious about what you would say, dear Serra.
03:20:59Yes, now let me give you a few
03:21:02short headlines from the Minister of Justice, and then I'll leave the floor to you.
03:21:06You know, there was a news report yesterday that a Russian businessman,
03:21:10allegedly close to Putin, contributed hundreds of thousands
03:21:14of dollars as an organization gift to President Trump's son's wedding ceremony.
03:21:18This was also asked to the Minister of Justice, and a brave journalist
03:21:21said, "Investigate these allegations.
03:21:25Is there any impropriety here?" A businessman who is said to be close
03:21:29to a foreign head of state, while in office, you know the wedding was recent.
03:21:33Trump couldn't even go to the wedding, let's remember that. To this question,
03:21:36he replied that it is difficult to investigate
03:21:39the wedding gift, and said, "We don't have enough
03:21:43information. It's an allegation that he's Putin's friend, there's no
03:21:47evidence to show that." So he refrained
03:21:50from giving details, but journalists are not afraid to ask questions.
03:21:54This is an important observation, I think. Another
03:21:57issue, you know, there are very strict policies
03:22:00regarding immigration. So much so that
03:22:03an investigation was launched against Ilhan Omar, a member of the House of Representatives.
03:22:07There were rumors going on for months, years, that she married her brother
03:22:10to give him legal status. This was asked to the Minister of Justice,
03:22:13and he said he did not want to comment on an ongoing investigation.
03:22:17He said, "Are you taking a step in this regard
03:22:20regarding the ideologicalization of institutions,
03:22:24every time you seize something? in the form of a certain ideology,"
03:22:27and he commented, "The ideology of any federal
03:22:30employee, whether Republican or Democrat, is not a good thing.
03:22:33We are doing our best to prevent this." Let me add this right away:
03:22:37there is serious judicial cooperation between Turkey and the United States,
03:22:40especially the FBI. Two important names
03:22:43from Turkey that America was looking for were extradited.
03:22:47One was a terrorist, and the other was involved
03:22:51in healthcare fraud using public funds.
03:23:07and extradited. But while these names
03:23:11who fled from America are coming, there are also names
03:23:14that Turkey wants. For example, Umut Altaş, his extradition case is still
03:23:17ongoing. He is an important witness in the Gülistan Doku
03:23:20murder case, and on the other hand, perhaps also a suspect.
03:23:23And he has important information
03:23:26about the governor's son. This cooperation always works
03:23:29for one side, for America's benefit.
03:23:33We see that it is not progressing. Another important case is Venezuela.
03:23:46He was caught while his owner was being sought in a certain place.
03:23:49Even though he admitted his crime, he was not allowed to leave. While other
03:23:52names were leaving and waiting,
03:23:55his process will also be clear. There are such issues. Also,
03:23:58finally, another Turkish citizen arrested in Panama,
03:24:02Mustafa Mollaoğlu, was arrested in Panama in an American operation
03:24:06for violating Iran sanctions. But there is a confidentiality
03:24:09order, so how consistent or inconsistent this cooperation is,
03:24:13these are also important test points. Thank you very much, dear Serra
03:24:16Karaçam, you summarized the agenda of the United States
03:24:20in one breath, in one go.
03:24:23Good luck, good broadcasts. Thank you, Ercüment Akdeniz. Before we go to the break,
03:24:26you had actually started to explain how what happened in the country
03:24:30in the last 24 hours would shed light on the upcoming period. Please,
03:24:34if you remember where you left off, continue from there.
03:24:37"Yes, you are discussing whether there will be an early election.
03:24:41Now, when we look at that medium-term program,
03:24:44we see signs that the election has been brought forward.
03:24:48This has been talked about, discussed, but we also need to look
03:24:51at the operations. That is, operations against municipalities,
03:24:54operations against the main opposition were already
03:24:56systematized,
03:25:00but this situation has now reached an interesting dimension
03:25:03in the last few days. We, as the news center at İlke
03:25:06TV, I am sure it's hard to follow on Halk TV.
03:25:09I mean, Mr. Şükrü is very knowledgeable. Now I'm taking notes,
03:25:13I can't keep up. Our friend Tuğba Tekelek,
03:25:16the journalist, can be arrested at any moment.
03:25:19Her statement is being taken. This was taken within the scope
03:25:23of LGBT operations, but for making a news report, our journalist friends.
03:25:26Canhan Coşkun and Kazım Kızıl are journalists.
03:25:29They are currently facing a
03:25:3314-year prison sentence in connection
03:25:36with the Rabia Naz case. An investigation has been launched.
03:25:39We already know Selahattin Günday, he was arrested for the second
03:25:42time, arrested for the second time. Now today, for example, Şebnem Korur
03:25:45Fincancı, Erol Önder, former representative of RSF,
03:25:48Turkey representative Ali Nesin and similar names were brought
03:25:52before the court again in the Özgür Gündem case, which was actually a closed
03:25:55case. And now, the decision was made to continue
03:25:58Nadiye Gürbüz's detention.
03:26:02While all this is happening, one should probably think,
03:26:05I mean, while the press freedom area is narrowing
03:26:09so much, how will the opposition go to the elections? There is no voice,
03:26:13no right to receive news. Therefore, I also received an access
03:26:16block as a journalist, right? Of course, let me tell you that too, Ertunç Bey,
03:26:20Evrensel newspaper, that is, the daily Evrensel newspaper has 1 million
03:26:24followers, and an access block was imposed on it.
03:26:27And it does labor journalism, I mean, we are talking about the increase in diesel
03:26:31prices, we are talking about the troubles of the workers.
03:26:34Now, how will unions, workers, make their voices heard?
03:26:38You come to the Ali İsmail Korkmaz Foundation. Ali İsmail
03:26:41Korkmaz was lynched and killed in a very cruel and brutal
03:26:44way in the middle of the street in Eskişehir.
03:26:47His mother Emel, along with his family,
03:26:51his brother, lawyer Gürkan Korkmaz, established a foundation
03:26:54that gives scholarships to children, provides education, there is nothing
03:26:58else. How do you block access to this, why do you block access
03:27:01to this account? To Peace Academics,
03:27:04I mean, they say there's a process, steps will be taken and so on.
03:27:08But you say Peace, and access to the accounts of Peace Academics
03:27:11has been blocked, to Amnesty International.
03:27:15The list goes on. Now, with things being like this,
03:27:19what kind of dark tunnel are we entering, and in this dark tunnel,
03:27:22will there really be a possibility of going to a normal
03:27:25election, even at a minimum level? Will there be an equal
03:27:29competition between parties? When I look
03:27:33from here, there is also an operation
03:27:36against socialists today. 39 people
03:27:39were detained, probably there are arrests, I can't follow it now. For example,
03:27:43one of them is Mert Titiz, the chairman of the Socialist
03:27:46Refoundation Party. He was taken into custody,
03:27:49included in this investigation. These are also component
03:27:53parties of the HDP. Moreover, there were concerns
03:27:56about the process, about trust in the process,
03:27:59and it grew. You say constitution,
03:28:02new constitution, right? We'll bring it on October 1st, discuss it, a civil and democratic
03:28:06constitution. What will you do with social consensus? You arrest journalists,
03:28:10you arrest them, you judge people because of their gender,
03:28:12you criminalize them, you make operations
03:28:16against municipalities every day, you turn the name of the opposition
03:28:20party into a problem. I also don't take
03:28:24that lightly. Let's see what comes out of that.
03:28:27Including the issue of eligibility
03:28:30for elections. Also, Fatih Yıldız had an interesting
03:28:34post, yes, Fatih Bey posted it today. I don't know if you discussed it,
03:28:37but please, or in a way,
03:28:40let's introduce a new threshold system for parties.
03:28:44But the changes in the election law and the election system did not come
03:28:47from the MHP for the first time today, such statements
03:28:50have been made before. Today, Fatih Bey elaborated on it a bit more.
03:28:54Mr. Şükrü, as I understand it, Ercüment Akdeniz's concern and question is that, as a journalist,
03:28:58he cannot foresee a normal election climate.
03:29:01He says, "How will it be?" I apologize, before I move on,
03:29:05let me just conclude with one sentence. I'm also curious about Mr. Şükrü's
03:29:09thoughts, we are colleagues after all.
03:29:11So, parties,
03:29:14the opposition as a whole,
03:29:18everyone has many troubles. But can't they come together and hold a very powerful
03:29:22rally, a very powerful resistance against press freedom,
03:29:26against censorship? I mean, if journalists
03:29:29cannot be supported today, when will they be supported?
03:29:32This siege, how will it be broken? This also
03:29:35needs to happen. Not just one party,
03:29:39all opposition, all unions, all civil society, all institutions together,
03:29:43can't they do something like this? The area of press freedom is really
03:29:46suffocating. Please, Mr. Şükrü?
03:29:50It's impossible not to agree with Ercüment Bey.
03:29:53Really, we constantly expect
03:29:57access blocks, detentions,
03:30:00tutuklama rahatlıkla bekliyoruz e sosyal medya
03:30:03paylaşımları sürekli olarak eee yasaklanıyor ve
03:30:07yenilerini kurmak zorunda kalıyorlar eee
03:30:10ben 45 yıldır bu mesleğin içindeyim inanın
03:30:14biz geçmişte olanları beğenmezdik
03:30:16eleştirirdik yani o günler özgürlük günleri. miş
03:30:20gazeteciler için maalesef onu der hale
03:30:23geldik, mesela söyleyip duruyoruz, kimse bunu
03:30:27basite indirgemesin, deminden beri söylüyorum, gazeteciler
03:30:31halkın haber alma özgürlüğünü, halka
03:30:33haber ulaştırma eee gücünü kullanıyorlar,
03:30:37yani aynen mahkemeler nasıl hakimler, yargıçlar halk adına
03:30:40karar veriyorsa, gazeteciler de halk
03:30:44adına izliyor, gözlüyor ve onu halka ulaştırıyor, şimdi
03:30:48mesela dünyanın... en büyük
03:30:50eee mahkemesini yapmakla övünen
03:30:53adında da adalet olan bir partinin
03:30:56iktidarında gazeteciler
03:30:59salonun bir köşesine sığıntı gibi
03:31:02oturtuluyor, halbuki gazeteci yargı
03:31:06insanlarını da, sanıkları e savunma insanlarını
03:31:10da görebilecek pozisyonda olmalıdır,
03:31:13çünkü onlar arasındaki, yine basit bir örnek olarak
03:31:16söylüyorum, en küçük el, kol hareketi mimikler bile haber
03:31:20değeri taşır ve bunları halkın bilmesi gerekir, yani bir
03:31:23yargıcın, bir savcının, bir savunma avukatının, bir
03:31:26sanığın, herhangi bir bu şekilde hareketini
03:31:30görüp halka aktarması gerekiyor, ama yok, eee, yine birinci
03:31:33bölümde, daha doğrusu bu
03:31:36medyaya yönelik eee reklam
03:31:38ambargolarıyla ilgili konuşurken eee ifade ettim
03:31:42eee medyanın etik ilkeleri yok edildi, haber
03:31:46alma ve haberi yayma özgürlüğü ortadan kaldırıldı bak.
03:31:50bakın gazeteciler yani basit bir suçlama haline geldi bu
03:31:53işte ne yalan haberi
03:31:57yaymak gerçek olmayan haber neydi klasik de lafı var
03:32:00gerçekten bilgi yanıltıcı bilgi yanıltıcı bilgi yaymak yanıltıcı
03:32:03bilgiyi alene yaç bey ezberlemek istemiyorum
03:32:07çünkü sanki kanıksamış gibi olacağız kanıksamamalıyız yani
03:32:11bu kadar kolay olmamalı ama bu dezenformasyon yasası
03:32:14çıkarıldı bakın bunun gazetecilerle alakalı olmadığı söylendi
03:32:18ama dezenformasyon yasası. eee gerekçe gösterilerek
03:32:22arkadaşlarımız tutuklanıyor, gözaltına alınıyor, aylarca, yıllarca
03:32:25cezaevinde kalıyor, eee işte nezaret haninde
03:32:28kalıyorlar, eee bence bu bir sadece
03:32:32muhalefet sorunu değil, iktidar sorunu, yani iktidarda
03:32:36eee medya özgürlüğü konusunda titiz olmalı, biz
03:32:39sadece muhalefet niye sahip çıkmıyor noktasında
03:32:43eleştiride haklı olabiliriz ama bizim asıl ey
03:32:46iktidar güç sende eğer...
03:32:50"bu ülkede halkın haber alma özgürlüğüne inanıyorsanız,
03:32:53o zaman medyayı özgür kılmanız lazım, gazetecileri özgür
03:32:57kılmanız lazım, gazete patronlarını, medya
03:33:00patronlarını değil, özellikle de gazetecileri özgür
03:33:04kılmalısınız, eee maalesef AK
03:33:07Parti iktidara geldiğinden bu yana
03:33:10bu konuda bizi sevindirecek, mutlu edecek hiçbir
03:33:14adım atmadı, eee aksine
03:33:17bugün hayatın her alanında olduğu gibi" medya alanında da
03:33:21aşırı güç kullanıyor ve eee
03:33:24medyayı eee şu ya da bu şekilde baskılama yolunu
03:33:28seçiyor eee o nedenle çok
03:33:31gür bir ses. çıkmalı ve bu bütün
03:33:35partiler tarafından eee yine eee bu
03:33:39ses çıkarılmalı ve de iktidara yakın olduğunu söyleyen
03:33:42medya aslında bir etik ilkeler
03:33:45eee ilkeleri yeniden anımsamalı bence
03:33:49asıl sorun orada geçmişte yine farklı
03:33:52ideolojilere sahip medya kuruluşları vardı sinem
03:33:55hanım ama gazetecilik ilkeleri söz konusu
03:33:58olduğunda eee gazetecilik etiği söz konusu
03:34:02olduğun da genel olarak bunların üzerinde
03:34:05uzlaştığı çok geniş bir alan vardı ve bir araya
03:34:08gelebiliyorlardı, ama bugün öyle değil, bambaşka bir
03:34:12dünyadayız, yani Sinema hanım, bunu basit bir örnek olarak
03:34:15kimse görmesin, ya gazeteciyim diyen insanlar
03:34:18çıkıyorlar, şu cezaevine atılmalı, bu sürünmeli, bu
03:34:22çürümeli, işte bu hapse atılmalı,
03:34:26korkunç bir tablo bu, ama bu gücü nereden alıyor,
03:34:29iktidardan alıyor, aynı şeyi muhalif bir bilinen bir
03:34:33gazeteci söylediğinde hemen soruşturmaya uğruyor,
03:34:36ama bunu iktidara yakın birisi söylediğinde bırakın
03:34:39soruşturmayı, alkış görüyor, eee bu
03:34:42tablonun eee Ercüment Hoca mutlaka değişmesi
03:34:46lazım ve bunu Türkiye değiştirmek zorunda,
03:34:49eee sürekli söylediğim gibi iktidara daha çok
03:34:52görev düşüyor, iktidar demokratik olgunluğunu kaybettiği
03:34:56sürece medya üzerindeki baskısını da arttırıyor,
03:34:59bugün ben çok inanıyorum yani... hep diyorlar ya
03:35:03örneğin Sayın Cumhurbaşkanı siyaseti iyi okur, ben artık sayın
03:35:06Cumhurbaşkanı siyaseti iyi okuduğunu düşünmüyorum, çünkü
03:35:10siyaseti eğer iyi okursa Üsküdar'ın
03:35:13olmaması lazım, medya üzerindeki bu kadar baskının olmaması lazım, çünkü
03:35:17bunlar iktidarın meşruiyetini yitirmesine neden
03:35:20oluyor, bunlar iktidarın, ak parti'nin diyeyim,
03:35:23daha somut konuşayım eee halk
03:35:27nezdindeki güveni erozyyona uğratıyor ve
03:35:31bugün... eee bu baskılamalar
03:35:35kendi eee seçmen tabanı tarafından da görülüyor, içine
03:35:38sindiremiyorlar eee şeyde
03:35:42olanı, Üsküdar'da olanı, yani bizim gücümüz bu
03:35:45muydu? eee yani bakın bugün
03:35:48bugün sohbet ediyorum ya sinem hanım bir karşımdaki
03:35:51insan ne dedi biliyor musun aman beşükrü bey dedi artık
03:35:55belediye seçimi kazanmak çok kolay nasıl yani dedim
03:35:58ne olacak dört tane transfer 3 tane gözaltı iki
03:36:02tane tutuklama meclis üyelerini belediyeyi kazandı, şimdi
03:36:05bakın, bu konuşuluyorsa Türkiye'de, bu
03:36:09konuşuluyorsa, gerçekten iktidar
03:36:12seçmen nezdinde güvenini yitirmiştir, bu
03:36:16da aşırı güç kullanmaktan kaynaklı, bugün
03:36:19iktidarın bildiği tek bir şey var, yani o anlamda söylüyorum, güç
03:36:23kullanırım, aşırı güç kullanırım, aşırı güç
03:36:25kullanarak eee istediğim sonucu alırım, iktidarımı korurum,
03:36:29hayır hayır, yani seçmen bunu gör. seçmen
03:36:33görüyor,
03:36:40I mean, the inability of the economy to improve,
03:36:44the fact that the price of a liter of diesel has now
03:36:47reached triple digits,
03:36:49I mean, the economy wants predictability,
03:36:53the economy wants legal regulations
03:36:56to be implemented, I mean, economies can recover
03:36:59in climates where the judiciary is not politicized.
03:37:03Now, there's a war right next to us, that's true.
03:37:06There was also one between Russia and Ukraine, and there is one between the US
03:37:10and Iran, but how correct is it to evaluate this current situation
03:37:13solely with geopolitical risks and developments
03:37:17around us? Now, we say the real agenda
03:37:20of the citizen, of course, we know the economy,
03:37:24we are aware. The price of diesel hitting the 100 lira
03:37:27mark today, please I ask my director Murat Erdoğan
03:37:31to put the visuals on the screen.
03:37:34How far it has come. In 2021,
03:37:38the price of a liter of diesel, which reached
03:37:41two-digit figures, is just about to reach three digits 5 years later.
03:37:45That is, as of yesterday, after the confirmed
03:37:48increase of 6.62, it exceeded 90 liras in Istanbul,
03:37:51and reached 95 liras in Batman and other places. Look, what was it,
03:37:55what happened? At the end of 2021,
03:37:58the price of a liter of diesel was 11.
03:38:01At the end of 2022, it was 22.10.
03:38:05At the end of 2023, it was 36.40.
03:38:07At the end of 2024, it was 43.20.
03:38:11In 2025, that is, last December,
03:38:15the price of a liter of diesel, which was 65 liras,
03:38:17is now 96 liras.
03:38:21In 5 years, the increase in diesel
03:38:24is 841%.
03:38:27Since the beginning of the year, the increase is 50%.
03:38:31There's a classic saying, "I always buy 50 liras worth,
03:38:35let the price go up as much as it wants." Now, with our largest banknote,
03:38:38that is, 200 liras, you can buy 2 liters
03:38:41of gasoline. Ertunç Bey.
03:38:45You give 200 liras, your largest banknote, and he gives you 2 liters
03:38:48of gasoline, or diesel. I mean, when we look
03:38:51at countries at war, you might say that Iran
03:38:55is already a rich country in terms of maintenance.
03:38:59But in Syria, it's between 49 and 70 liras,
03:39:02where there were also protests. Is the increase in fuel
03:39:05prices only for fuel, Ertunç Bey? I mean, we are not
03:39:08an unconscious society to not know that this has a huge impact
03:39:12on the pricing and re-evaluation
03:39:15of everything, from needles to threads.
03:39:18Let's not even talk about needles to threads,
03:39:21to put it simply, I don't want to digress,
03:39:25but we go to trials in Silivri, right? Going to a trial in Silivri
03:39:28and coming back costs 2,500 liras.
03:39:32Imagine, for a lawyer, a defendant,
03:39:35we are talking about a fair trial. You will go and represent yourself
03:39:39at the trial, you will give your statement
03:39:42there or ask questions to other defendants.
03:39:45You go 4 days a week, so you need to spend
03:39:4910,000, 12,000 liras a week to attend a trial.
03:39:53This is really not an acceptable situation. And besides, the situation is clear,
03:39:56we haven't even reached the end of 2026. There is an increase of nearly 50% every year.
03:40:00But we, as retirees, in salary,
03:40:02in minimum wage, we don't see an increase of close to 50% in other
03:40:06earnings, we saw the same in rents, well, now today an operation was carried out against
03:40:09fruit and vegetable vendors, wasn't it? Based on complaints, an operation was launched
03:40:13regarding exorbitant fruit and vegetable prices, and
03:40:17whoever is guilty, whoever is at fault, can of course be prosecuted, and in the end,
03:40:20whatever the penalty, they can serve it, but now is it only the
03:40:24fruit and vegetable vendor at the market who is guilty,
03:40:27or is it the producer trying to produce with this diesel
03:40:30and these fertilizer prices, and despite
03:40:33all this, somehow making a profit of 3 or 5 lira,
03:40:36is the producer guilty? How will they
03:40:39do it, how will they produce with these prices? Look, diesel
03:40:43is indispensable for farmers and tradesmen. It is indispensable for transportation. A 10
03:40:46lira increase here will perhaps come to our table here in
03:40:50Istanbul as 300 lira, perhaps it will come as 100 lira
03:40:53in other jobs in our workplaces,
03:40:56in our other indirect expenses. What did they use to say?
03:41:00"I always buy for 50 lira." Now with 50 lira, you can't even smell
03:41:04diesel, and even if 50 lira's equivalent in today's inflation is 500
03:41:07lira, you're still ashamed to buy 500 lira of gas for your car.
03:41:11When I pass by a gas station, I say "hurry up". I'm ashamed to say "100 lira"
03:41:15because it finishes filling up in a second.
03:41:18We are talking about such an economy. What are we talking about as
03:41:22lawyers? Legal predictability. If you
03:41:25don't ensure legal predictability, if one
03:41:28day you take someone from their home in the morning with a newspaper headline, one day
03:41:32to chicken farmers, one day to vegetable vendors, one day
03:41:35you conduct operations on oil companies and appoint trustees,
03:41:38that is, if people in a state of law, under
03:41:41the protection of law, don't feel safe. If we are in a situation
03:41:45where the law changes not as it operates but with daily
03:41:48practices, then these can be 500 lira, or 600 lira, we cannot
03:41:52stop this this way. What are we talking about? Strict monetary policy, right?
03:41:55This is the platform where Mehmet Şimşek announced
03:41:59increased taxes and more burden on the public, but
03:42:02while these continue,
03:42:06illegal trials continue, injustice continues.
03:42:09We say arrest is the last resort, appointment of a trustee is the last
03:42:13resort. You need to present concrete evidence, you need to find
03:42:17it to say that there is indeed a criminal element in this company, that assets are being laundered or
03:42:21that this company was established with it, so that you can appoint a trustee.
03:42:24But you make trustee decisions without even taking statements, you seize
03:42:28companies, you open cases against people, "Oh, let's take it to investigation,
03:42:32let's move to prosecution." "Sorry, we kept you in custody for 4-5 days,
03:42:36and accidentally arrested you for a month or two in between, sorry, you are acquitted," you say.
03:42:39In a situation where you cannot foresee,
03:42:42you can neither invest your money anywhere,
03:42:46nor is there a situation where you can get the return on your invested
03:42:48money. In this regard, when we talk about how
03:42:51social consensus will be formed, how
03:42:54this economy will change and we will go to the elections, I think that has been abandoned now,
03:42:58because Mr. Şükrü just mentioned the Üsküdar election,
03:43:02I mean, which AK Party member, which Nationalist Movement Party member
03:43:06would say, "Oh, that's good, we won this, how nicely
03:43:10we won, the national will has found its response"? No one
03:43:13with an average intelligence level who
03:43:17can comprehend and interpret those events would say this. Now, since the situation
03:43:20böyleyken böyle ya yani şimdi tablo böyleyken
03:43:24küçükşahin ardından da Ercüment Bey'e geleceğim yine çünkü biraz önce sizin
03:43:27sözünüz yarım kalmıştı ya şimdi bu saatten sonra gıda
03:43:31fiyatlarının düşeceğine alım gücünün yükselmek
03:43:35demeyeyim normalleşebileceğine
03:43:37dair inancı olan bir yurttaşımız var mı bakın dinleyelim bir yurttaş bugün ne diyor
03:43:41bir sesi verelim.
03:43:45zam geldi arkadaş bugün yine doldurduk depomuzu 4 liraya Allah izin
03:43:48verirse bu ne olacak böyle her şeye zam her şeye zam ya bunun
03:43:52artık biz çaresini bulsunlar ya markete gidemiyoruz alışverişe
03:43:56gidemiyoruz mazota. mazot demek her şeye zam
03:43:59demek ya bıktık artık yeter ya yeter farkında
03:44:02markete gidemiyorum çarşıya gidemiyorum mazota zam demek her şeye zam
03:44:06demek yani bunun bir şimdi sizce bir yurttaş bu saatten
03:44:10sonra alım gücünün yükseleceğine ya efendime
03:44:13söyleyeyim işte gıda fiyatları en basit örneği düşeceğine dair bir
03:44:16inancınız sizin var mı? hayır
03:44:20kimsenin yok yani nasıl olsun ki bakın bugün
03:44:23ben e gelirken işte eşim söyledi yazdı girdim.
03:44:27aldım inanın sıradan bir market öyle lüks falan değil samimi
03:44:31söylüyorum ya 1 kilo
03:44:33kıyma 600 gram da sote
03:44:37et 2044
03:44:39lira ya 2.044 lira
03:44:43kıyma ve sote et 600 gram sote et 1
03:44:46kilo da kıyma e pazara gidiyorsunuz demin
03:44:49söyledim ee korkunç bir tabloyla karşı
03:44:52karşıyasınız ve asgari ücretin ne olduğu alım gücünün ne olduğu
03:44:55ortada iktidar bakın.
03:44:58asıl bunlarla eee ilgilenmesi gerekirken
03:45:02eee bu hedefini de eee bu hedefi konusunda da bizi ikna
03:45:05etmiyor, onun için ısrarla söylüyorum, dünyanın hiçbir
03:45:08ülkesinde kronikleşmiş bir enflasyonla mücadele, bakın
03:45:12enflasyon değil, enflasyonla mücadele politikası
03:45:15yoktur, bu taş çaddası iki yılda olur biter,
03:45:19ama Türkiye neredeyse 10 yıldır enflasyonla mücadele
03:45:23ediyor, çünkü sistem yanlış, bakın
03:45:26verin. etkiyi görün etkiyi dendi, o zaman enflasyon
03:45:29%15'ti, hatta yüksek
03:45:32sayılıyordu, e döviz kurları 4 lira
03:45:35civarındaydı, faiz %9 düzeyindeydi, bugün
03:45:39demin hoca gitti, yani her 100 lira verginin
03:45:42e 20 lirası faize gidiyor,
03:45:45enflasyon dünya şampiyonusunuz, hele gıda enflasyonu
03:45:48yani Türkiye nasıl bir gıda enflasyonunda şampiyon
03:45:52olur, anlamak mümkün değil. Ağustos ayında
03:45:56Sinem Hanım. "ağustos ayında enflasyon sıfır
03:45:59düzeylerinde çıkardı Türkiye'de her zaman, çünkü sebze ve meyvenin en
03:46:03bol olda öyle çıkıyor eee şey e
03:46:06Şükrü bey nasıl şimdi haziranda haziran enflasyonu sıfır
03:46:10çıkıyor ki Temmuzda şeyler oluyor ya o tabii o ücret
03:46:13politikası nedeniyle ama eee enflasyon %2 civarında
03:46:172'ye yaklaşıyor bu çok yüksek bir oran yani
03:46:20niye e çünkü doğru politikalar izlemiyorsunuz
03:46:24işte Ertunç bey söyledi yani "daha
03:46:27önce stokçu operasyonu yapıyordun, yok benzinci operasyonu, şimdi
03:46:31de işte yok tarladan buraya kadar
03:46:34gelişte eee şöyle fiyat oluyor, böyle oluşuyor, nasıl
03:46:37oluşuyor, niye bugün oluştu, ya da bugün mü
03:46:41oluştu, birden bire mi oluştu, sen ülkeyi yönetiyorsun,
03:46:44ekonomik bir tablo bu, ekonomik kararlar
03:46:47gerektirir, bu polisiye tedbirlerle önlenemez, gerçekten
03:46:51önlenemez, sinema hanım, yani burada bir aksaklık var demek
03:46:55ki senin bunu önlemen gerekiyor."
03:46:59varlık nedeni bu, hükümet
03:47:01olman, yani tarladan vatandaşa ulaşan
03:47:05üründe gerçekten sağlıklı bir fiyat politikasının
03:47:08oluşmasını sağlaman gerekir, bu polisye tedbirlerle olmaz, aldığın
03:47:11ekonomik kararlarla olur, aldığın eee işte ne
03:47:15der mevzuat çerçevesinde olur, ama
03:47:18böyle bir niyet yok, ben artık buna samimi olarak, yani iktidarın
03:47:22ekonomiyi öncelemek ya ekonomiyi toparlamak gibi bir önce, bu bir
03:47:25tercih yani bu bir tercih. mi diyorsunuz artık bu bir eee
03:47:29ekonomi politikas düşünüyorum bakın ak Parti
03:47:33sinem hanım ak parti mağdurdan garip gurabadan
03:47:37uzaklaştı şimdi başka grupların
03:47:40temsilcisi oldu nedenle bu ülkede
03:47:43eee milli gelirden çalışanların
03:47:47yoksulların aldığı pay son 10 yılda
03:47:50neredeyse 10 puan varlıklıların deyiğine eee
03:47:53değişmiştir
03:47:56bakın. gerçekten iddialı bir laf ediyorum, yani
03:47:59Türkiye'de yoksulların geliri AK Parti
03:48:02iktidarında azalmıştır, nasıl bir ak Parti garip guraba
03:48:06demiş, yoksulluğu yok edeceğim diye iktidar olmuş bir parti
03:48:10ama ben artık bunun ee hele enflasyon politikasının
03:48:14eee bir yanıyla ya böyle olunca vergi gelirlerimiz daha
03:48:18yüksek oluyor, o zaman eee yani devletin
03:48:21tasarruf etmesine gerek yok, devlet daha güçlü harcama yapabilir
03:48:24işte eee o zaman bizim. de harcama
03:48:28gücümüz artar diye baktıklarını düşünüyorum yani ekonomist
03:48:31değilim ama tekrar söylüyorum basit biz de biraz
03:48:34ekonomi okuru olduk ya da üniversitede bunun eğitimini de aldık
03:48:38az çok olmaz yani bu kadar uzun süreli enflasyonla
03:48:41mücadele olmaz sinem hanım olmaz ve
03:48:45başarıya bakın ya %32
03:48:47%32 Arjantin %250'den 2 yılda
03:48:51%30'a düşürdü sanıyorum ya o zaman enflasyonla
03:48:54mücadele özür dilerim araya giriyorum ama bu kadar uzun süre mücadele. edilmez
03:48:58diyorsunuz ya, enflasyonla mücadelenin bu kadar uzun
03:49:01sürmesi tamamen iktidarın bir kendi tercihi ve politikası mı,
03:49:04ikinde bulunduğumuz siyasi iklimin bir getirisi mi
03:49:08bu, mecburi bir getirisi mi eee olan
03:49:11biten? bakın, eğer enflasyonu düşürme
03:49:15niyetiniz varsa Türkiye'nin hukuk
03:49:18devletinde üst sıralara çıkmasını sağlarsın,
03:49:21demokratik olgunluğu gösterirsin, muhalefet
03:49:24ve medya üzerindeki baskıları sıfırlarsın, senin hakkın
03:49:28kadar muhalefete de özgürlük alanı tanırsın, bunları
03:49:32yapmazsan enflasyonu önleyemezsin, polisiye
03:49:36tedbirlerle olmaz, sinem hanım, çünkü siz diktatörlükle.
03:49:40bir ülke değilsiniz, yani o ülkeler bile
03:49:43ekonomik kararları alırken bambaşka hesapları
03:49:47yapıyorlar, yani bugün geliniyor, bakın
03:49:5023 tane orta vade program
03:49:54açıklandı. Sinem hanım, ilk 2005'te açıklandığında
03:49:583 yıl sonraki enflasyon hedefi neydi?
03:50:00%5, yani 2025, şey
03:50:042005, 2008'de 2008'de enflasyon
03:50:08%5 olacaktı. 2008'de
03:50:12e bugün 1 yıl sonraki
03:50:15orta vade programda enflasyonunuzda hesabınızda
03:50:18%12'lik sapma var bu kadar
03:50:21olmaz gerçekten bu kadar olmaz hele bir de rasyonel politika
03:50:25iddia e politikka izlediğini iddia ettiğiniz
03:50:28bir eee uzmanı bu alanda
03:50:31görevlendirdiyseniz yani adını da koyalım Mehmet Şimşek
03:50:34inflation was supposed to be 5% in 2008.
03:50:38Today, in the medium-term program for 1 year from now,
03:50:41there is a 12% deviation in your inflation calculation.
03:50:45This is too much, it really is too much. Especially when you claim
03:50:49to be following a rational policy, and you have assigned an expert
03:50:53in this field, let's call him Mehmet Şimşek, and despite all this, things are still at 32%,
03:50:56"Oh, how wonderful, inflation is finally
03:50:59falling," if you evaluate it that way. Also, let's not forget, Ms. Sinem,
03:51:02Mr. President says the same thing every year: "Turkey's star is shining,
03:51:06we are doing these things with quality, qualified personnel and people.
03:51:15Our medium-term program is strong, the measures we have taken are strong,
03:51:19you will see that Turkey is a country whose star is shining."
03:51:22But the people's star has never shined, nor has Turkey's. It won't shine
03:51:26with this inflation. But the reason is these...
03:51:29decisions regarding the independence of institutions, regarding the Central Bank.
03:51:32If you insist on changing the Central Bank Governor every year,
03:51:35Ms. Sinem, it won't work. You cannot convince us that
03:51:38you are fighting inflation. That is, if you say
03:51:42"you don't know the interest rate policy, how it should be" and
03:51:45for this reason you change ministers, you change Central Bank
03:51:47policies, it won't work. This is only
03:51:50an indication that you don't want to prevent inflation,
03:51:54but rather more impoverishment.
03:51:58I guess it's thought that
03:52:01as poverty increases, the level of education probably decreases,
03:52:04so those who vote for us increase, because they also had such a thesis,
03:52:08as you know, the group deputy chairmen had said that
03:52:12as the level of education decreases, those who vote for us increase.
03:52:15But they are not aware, I mean, the world
03:52:18is not what it was 20 years ago... Let's say Turkey, not the Turkey
03:52:21of 20 years ago, nor the Turkey of 50 years ago. People, one way
03:52:25or another, are learning lessons from this every day,
03:52:29living every day. And also, you
03:52:33can silence the media as much as you want, silence the opposition,
03:52:36people go to the market every day, to the greengrocer, to the supermarket,
03:52:40and there they face reality.
03:52:42Now, these price hikes, Ercüment Akdeniz, have become
03:52:46a fundamental economic indicator determining all pricing
03:52:49behaviors. That is, transportation,
03:52:53production costs, what kind of situation
03:52:57is the citizen facing? Now, even if we assume that the elections
03:53:00will be held on time, the government also has an expectation of being able to fix
03:53:04the economy. The OVP was announced the other day, and there were some
03:53:07deviations, or rather
03:53:10updates, but now it's clear
03:53:13that it won't go as planned, whether due to this or that,
03:53:17whether geopolitical developments or domestic political
03:53:20everything from A to Z will see price increases, and very severely.
03:53:24I mean, this is very clear. And also, will it stop here? Will diesel stop
03:53:27at 100 lira? I mean, how far will it go until the election?
03:53:31These are cumulative price increases.
03:53:34I mean, if they think, "we have allocated a certain budget," it's also in the OVP,
03:53:38"so we will do some work on pensions, minimum wage, etc.,
03:53:42a quarter before the election," what is currently being done
03:53:45and the price increases that will come until
03:53:47that date will take that away. That's over, that's
03:53:51in the past now. The job is not easy.
03:53:54It's really difficult for the government in that regard.
03:53:58But if we ask if this is a choice, a mistake, or incompetence,
03:54:02I think it's a choice. There's a segment of 8-10 million
03:54:05people in Turkey. If you have money, if you have financial power,
03:54:09if you make money from money, you're not affected by anything. The rich get richer anyway.
03:54:13But the base is breaking, the large majority is breaking.
03:54:16When I hear diesel, I immediately think of farmers, I mean, producer farmers.
03:54:19If agriculture and animal husbandry go,
03:54:23how will you ensure resilience during wartime, during
03:54:26global conflicts, during crises, during pandemics?
03:54:30You are not an agricultural country that is self-sufficient.
03:54:33How will you achieve this? From that
03:54:37perspective, the situation is really not good. Now I remember the pandemic,
03:54:40Biden was in power in the United
03:54:43States. It swept through the whole world, it swept through the economy.
03:54:47He gave 1.4 or 1.7
03:54:50trillion dollars in subsidies to his citizens.
03:54:52He provided salary support, "they can't work,
03:54:56they shouldn't starve," healthcare services and so
03:54:59on. Now, for example, we say there is a
03:55:02oil crisis, we say there is the Strait of Hormuz, now we say Yemen has been added,
03:55:06now a fragile economy, okay, you've reduced industry, you've reduced
03:55:10manufacturing, you say our services sector is strong. Honestly, excuse
03:55:13me, in times like these, the services sector won't save you. If your industry
03:55:17isn't strong, if your employment isn't strong, it won't save you.
03:55:20But I mean, for example... "What are you giving your citizens during
03:55:24such a period of hunger, poverty, and price hikes? What kind of subsidy are you giving?
03:55:28There was a sliding scale to balance it, at least from taxes..."
03:55:31Yes, I mean, maybe a regulation could be made in terms of taxes? I mean, given the situation,
03:55:35given the circumstances, the fact that these taxes will remain
03:55:38in force in the same way...
03:55:42They couldn't do it, it's over, that story is over now. I mean, they
03:55:45removed it, they removed the protection measure. Now the entire bill, the entire bitter
03:55:49prescription is on the backs of the citizens, the villagers, the workers,
03:55:52the retirees. Let me conclude with this: Look, we are not the same as Syria,
03:55:56are we? Syria came out of a civil war, and as a journalist
03:56:00who interviewed Syrians for years, I know very well. They returned,
03:56:03I still meet them, I do interviews, we are not the same. I mean, there is no
03:56:06infrastructure, the economy is not good, investments
03:56:10are not as desired, there is hunger, 70% of the country is hungry
03:56:13or something. A 40% price hike
03:56:16came there on oil, and the people
03:56:20are up in arms. Can't we be as good as Syria?
03:56:24I'm asking this. I mean, the citizen should also ask themselves,
03:56:27I never want to make a comparison, Turkey is a more modern country,
03:56:31capitalism in Turkey is much more advanced, the tradition of trade union
03:56:35democratic struggle in Turkey is very strong.
03:56:38I mean, the left-wing tradition is very strong, the struggle to gain labor
03:56:42rights is very strong. It cannot even be compared to Syria or Middle Eastern countries.
03:56:45But which wave of price hikes is this,
03:56:49which price hike frenzy? Then the citizen will ask themselves
03:56:52or look at their own history, what did we do during such price hike periods, what
03:56:56would we do? For example, what would the unions do? Now the farmers are
03:57:00crying blood, they are revolting because of diesel. What is the chamber of
03:57:03agriculture doing? What is the chamber of agriculture doing? What are the producer
03:57:06farmer associations doing? The workers are crying blood. What are the union
03:57:10confederations doing? No one should be offended, I mean, the citizen
03:57:13should point the finger at themselves. I mean,
03:57:17without unity, without demanding rights, without
03:57:20pressure from below, no one gives
03:57:23rights from above. I mean, it has come to this,
03:57:27unfortunately, I mean, if we vote for this party, that party will save us.
03:57:31Parties are important, elections are important too, of course, this is important. Yes, of course it's
03:57:35important, but in Turkey's
03:57:38tradition, there is always a democratic
03:57:41struggle from below, a trade union struggle from below,
03:57:45a struggle of workers from below. This struggle takes
03:57:48a little more bread, it expands the democratic
03:57:52space a little more, it makes May 1st
03:57:55free, it develops trade union
03:57:59freedoms. If this is not there, no one gives anything decent
03:58:03from above to anyone, no offense. So,
03:58:06elections are important, but a citizen should draw
03:58:09conclusions for themselves from a situation that is only focused on elections.
03:58:13In the past, there was a labor platform, there was a "no to privatizations" platform. Look,
03:58:17we are talking about highways and bridges now. Is there a platform against
03:58:20privatization now? Why isn't there one? I mean, there was one 10-20 years ago,
03:58:24it could be done. Well, one might say, "there's a lot of pressure, there's a much
03:58:28more authoritarian system, this and that." I mean, these are not excuses, they existed
03:58:32before too, they existed in the 90s too. How did this country emerge
03:58:35from the 1980 military coup? It emerged with student
03:58:38protests and worker protests in 1986, 1987.
03:58:41The spaces became free that way. I mean, how did the AKP come to power?
03:58:45Let's remember that too. I remember how the DSP-MHP-Anap
03:58:48coalition left. I mean, hundreds of
03:58:51thousands were in the streets, protesting price hikes, protesting
03:58:55inflation. That's how change came. Now, without such
03:58:58a thing, no rights can be sought, no change can happen.
03:59:01I mean, it's not right to dump the entire burden on political
03:59:05parties either. I mean, trade unions,
03:59:08people, citizens need to take
03:59:11on tasks from this. And the opposition, as a whole,
03:59:15I'm not making any party distinction here, I mean, as a whole, it's not
03:59:18just election preparation, I mean...
03:59:22They need to open channels where these people can take their problems
03:59:26to the streets, where they can express their problems and win their rights.
03:59:29I remember Poland, I always give it as an example.
03:59:32Lech Walesa was a trade unionist in the change
03:59:36of power, and he came to power with the power
03:59:39coming from the factories and the trade union movement. He brought about a very big change.
03:59:43in 2008,