Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00Orbus power bank.
00:00:27I say that today we are from the Middle East. Because
00:00:30of course,
00:00:32a new threshold has now been crossed
00:00:36in the attacks by Yemen, or rather the Houthis, or
00:00:40the Ansar Allah movement, on Saudi Arabia, because
00:00:43Riyadh airport was targeted, and as we discussed
00:00:47before, Saudi Arabia has been in trouble for a while.
00:00:51The aid it wanted from America did not come today. Or rather, yesterday, Hakan Fidan also made
00:00:54an interesting statement. Actually, we discussed it at length
00:00:58in the previous program, that is, the Mecca Agreement.
00:01:02How much does it bind Turkey? What is the text of such an agreement? I want
00:01:07although no one, I am for it not being in anyone's hands, to discuss all these things with you, because you follow Yemen very well, and you also follow Saudi Arabia,
00:01:11but first, let's share
00:01:13the latest developments from the region as news with our dear viewers,
00:01:17and then
00:01:18let's talk.
00:01:27Since July, Saudi Arabia.
00:01:34King Khalid International Airport has been the target
00:01:38of attacks. Saudi Arabia, on the other hand,
00:01:40announced that the ballistic missile launched towards Riyadh
00:01:44was destroyed in the air.
00:01:48However, the fire in the fuel depot near the airport
00:01:52revealed the danger facing the capital.
00:01:55They announced that they targeted
00:01:59numerous ballistic and
00:02:04cruise missiles
00:02:07and unmanned aerial vehicles. Following the developments,
00:02:10a remarkable warning came from the US
00:02:13Department of State to its citizens.
00:02:17It was stated that the security environment in the Middle East
00:02:20is open to an unpredictable
00:02:23escalation. warned that the war
00:02:27between the Houthis and Saudi Arabia could escalate rapidly
00:02:30and that the threat might not be limited to the Middle East.
00:02:34It announced that Iran and pro-Iranian groups
00:02:37could target American interests,
00:02:40businesses, and institutions in different parts of the world.
00:02:43As the war spread in the region, a new message
00:02:47came from Tehran to Washington. The Secretary of Iran's Supreme National Security Council,
00:02:51Mohsen Rezaee, announced that they had conveyed
00:02:54their conditions for resuming negotiations
00:02:58to America through Qatar and Pakistan. These include
00:03:02the release of frozen Iranian assets,
00:03:04the lifting of the naval blockade, and
00:03:08an end to the war on all fronts. The Iranian official
00:03:11also stated that they are ready to help
00:03:14end the war between Saudi Arabia
00:03:17and the Houthis.
00:03:24However, he warned Washington against a new attack.
00:03:28He said that if they attack again,
00:03:31they will hit the bases from which American
00:03:34planes take off much harder this time. Yes, Mustafa Kemal,
00:03:48isn't it? How quickly
00:03:52it escalates. You are right to say that you follow
00:03:55the Ansar Allah movement because they are
00:03:59working, so to speak, because
00:04:02behind him, this war with Saudi Arabia is not new. Yes, it's not new, of course. Since 2015,
00:04:06they have actually been in a homeland defense, first of all, this needs to be determined,
00:04:10because Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates,
00:04:14who later fell out with each other, actually, I wrote an article, there is no proxy
00:04:18war with Iran, there is a proxy war that Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates
00:04:22have been waging against each other. A coalition formed
00:04:25under the leadership of these two countries has been carrying out
00:04:29attacks in Yemen since 2015.
00:04:32You are right to ask what Ansar Allah wants
00:04:36to do. First of all, as you said, they are defending their homeland
00:04:40because an external power, Saudi Arabia,
00:04:43has occupied this country since 2015, and almost 330,000,
00:04:46almost 350,000 Yemenis, mostly civilians, have died.
00:04:49Now I always say this, the magic word is this, that
00:04:53whatever geopolitics puts before us, not before you or me,
00:04:57it makes us talk about it, whereas Ansar Allah is
00:05:00doing what is expected of them, they are actually doing
00:05:04what is expected of every country that defends itself, because their country is under occupation.
00:05:06So Saudi Arabia, of course, with America's approval and support,
00:05:10wants to establish a pro-Saudi
00:05:13regime in Yemen that supports
00:05:17it, because there are border issues and so on, as you know,
00:05:21and it has completely pounced on Yemen
00:05:24due to security issues, using a concept borrowed
00:05:27from America. Ansar Allah's methods can certainly be debated,
00:05:30and we should debate them, that's another matter.
00:05:33The most bitter answer I will give to the question of what they are doing
00:05:37is this: Ansar Allah, like others,
00:05:40the paradigm of war has changed, everyone is hitting infrastructure,
00:05:44hitting airports, hitting schools, I am not saying hitting schools, but I have inserted
00:05:47it with other examples, they are hitting airports,
00:05:51they hit Aramco facilities, these are the heart
00:05:54and lifelines of Saudi Arabia, but
00:05:58this is a war that has been going on since 2015, and now our geopolitics
00:06:01presents the issue to us as if
00:06:04it just happened or as if Ansar Allah attacked Saudi Arabia
00:06:08while they were dormant. Now, let's criticize all of Ansar Allah's methods,
00:06:12and evaluate them, that's another matter, but let's also ask
00:06:16what Saudi Arabia has been doing there since 2015 and question it,
00:06:20because Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the de facto king, as you know,
00:06:23did not die, his father, I am not saying anyone should die, but he lived a long life,
00:06:26so he is actually the de facto king,
00:06:30and this was a test area
00:06:32for him to prove himself. What does Yemen mean? It has been
00:06:3611 years, and a war has been going on there for 11 years, and now
00:06:40If I don't calculate wrong, will be in 2026.
00:06:43There has been a war going on for 11 years, thousands of people have died, as I just said.
00:06:45So what if we look at it
00:06:49this way, I will ask a question, I am asking
00:06:52so we can think together, so now,
00:06:56these attacks on Iran by the United States
00:07:00have started a very different era in the region, a threshold
00:07:03has been crossed, and
00:07:07the Strait of Hormuz, which will affect the world,
00:07:11stands like a closed or black box right now,
00:07:14meaning it has not been resolved, there is a crisis point there,
00:07:18in this process, it was said that if
00:07:22Bab el-Mandeb, where the Houthis are located,
00:07:25on the Red Sea side, if they also take action,
00:07:28this situation will come to a very different point,
00:07:32and for a long time, the Houthis did not get involved in this process.
00:07:35They have direct attacks on Israel in the Gaza War, meaning during the Gaza attacks,
00:07:38I don't want to say war on Israel, because that's why.
00:07:55To understand it better, Saudi Arabia is particularly
00:07:58targeted,
00:08:00and the crisis is spreading. I mean, this is, how should I say,
00:08:04the world is going towards a point beyond
00:08:08just the United States or the Gulf countries that support it.
00:08:11Of course,
00:08:22its gaining importance is something that needs to be discussed. What immediately comes to my mind
00:08:26is that if another country had been fighting
00:08:30the United States and Iran in that region,
00:08:34the Ansar Allah movement would have been on their side, or aligned with them,
00:08:37inevitably. Of course, people immediately think of sectarian
00:08:41proximity and so on. But it's wrong, even if there is
00:08:44sectarian proximity, the Ansar Allah movement cannot be considered
00:08:48fully Shiite, because it opposes
00:08:51the Imam concept of Velayet-e Faqih,
00:08:55meaning that anyone can be an Imam, they don't necessarily have to be specially chosen or privileged.
00:08:58Since it has this theological difference,
00:09:02there is no possibility of it being a movement directly centered on Iran or directed by Iran,
00:09:05but of course there are common interests, of course,
00:09:09and this brings them together. Perhaps Iran is not happy
00:09:12about the situation reaching this point, I am making a claim,
00:09:16I can't prove it, I am stating my prediction, or rather my feeling,
00:09:20that perhaps Iran is concerned that it might lose control.
00:09:23I am just saying this in parentheses, I don't know if this is the case,
00:09:26but I feel this way. Because Ansar Allah
00:09:30has now reached a point that even surpasses Iran. Now, to summarize,
00:09:33the situation in the Strait of Hormuz is clear, it was a very important global
00:09:36route. It is closed, or at least under Iran's control. Iran can allow
00:09:40whoever it wants to pass, and not allow
00:09:42whoever it doesn't want, and take money from whoever it wants, and not take money from whoever it doesn't want, as you know. Now, are there no alternative
00:09:46routes being considered for this? Yes, there are. The Bab el-Mandeb
00:09:49Strait may not be the only alternative, or the best alternative,
00:09:53but among dozens of alternatives, it is an important one for Saudi Arabia, as I understand.
00:09:56Now, while such a thing exists, Ansar Allah's
00:09:59new position, which can support
00:10:03Iran's control of Hormuz and its preventive
00:10:07position on global supply, is understandable.
00:10:11Because it was a very good opportunity. Because,
00:10:14yes, it was a very important strategic position
00:10:17regarding the forces that both Iran
00:10:21and Yemen are facing. Is it not?
00:10:25And Ansar Allah's control of Bab el-Mandeb
00:10:29has surprised the opposing forces so much. From this perspective,
00:10:33I find this important. Now, they also, excuse me,
00:10:36I said that to interrupt, they say that about Bab el-Mandeb,
00:10:40although Iran also started that way for Hormuz,
00:10:44but things developed differently. They say we won't let
00:10:47Saudi Arabian ships pass through here because
00:10:51we are at war with them, others can pass,
00:10:55but no one can take that risk, so trade is not possible.
00:10:58The same thing happened in Hormuz, if you remember, Iran applied the same position, but
00:11:02now you said at the beginning
00:11:06that Yemen and Saudi Arabia,
00:11:08or rather the Houthis, have been at war for a long time,
00:11:11so it's a natural enemy, and it's taking a position,
00:11:15as you said, it takes advantage of the opportunity
00:11:18when it puts them in a more advantageous position. Iran also
00:11:22attacked Saudi Arabia, but now I am thinking
00:11:25aloud, could isolating and specifically
00:11:29targeting Saudi Arabia have an effect like this?
00:11:32Saudi Arabia is still an important country in the region.
00:11:36Yes, we can say Egypt too, but it has a different
00:11:39position than Egypt. Will trying to rid
00:11:42it of its relations with America, or forcing it,
00:11:46lead to a point where it asks America to please take
00:11:49your bases and leave? I am not sure,
00:11:53but forcing this,
00:11:57is it in the interest of both sides? made the distinction very well,
00:12:00we know that their statement that they will only allow Saudi Arabian
00:12:04ships is not realistic. Tomorrow,
00:12:07even if they say it's okay for others to pass,
00:12:11that doesn't remove the hesitation, the same thing happened in Hormuz,
00:12:15that's very true. Yes, that's a good tactic,
00:12:18Ansar Allah can build a verbal defense on this and say,
00:12:22no, I am only banning the ships of Saudi Arabia,
00:12:26whom I have been fighting since 2015. It won't be that way, of course, there is an understandable
00:12:30side to this, if you have taken control of the situation,
00:12:34you might not allow a Turkish tanker to pass, even if I am just giving
00:12:37an example and don't know if there is such a thing,
00:12:41it's very possible tomorrow after taking control.
00:12:45Yes, Saudi Arabia is important, you are right. Look, it is perhaps
00:12:48the strongest country in the region in terms of
00:12:52weapons and equipment, but it has no personnel.
00:12:55Pakistani pilots used its fighter jets for years,
00:12:58and I think there was a pilot training program
00:13:02where Pakistan helped for years, it has been helping since the mid-80s,
00:13:05as you know. There is a Pakistani
00:13:09military unit there that trains Saudi Arabia,
00:13:12but it's clear it hasn't worked, as you know, they still
00:13:16can't do anything. By the way, I should quickly mention that many Saudi
00:13:20Arabian soldiers are surrendering in large numbers to Ansar Allah forces,
00:13:23so Saudi Arabia also has a military
00:13:27force that has no combat capability, but despite this, it is an important
00:13:30country because it is a petrodollar country. Yes, it has a lot of money,
00:13:34and with that money, it does a lot of things.
00:13:37Look, in OPEC, it caused the United Arab
00:13:40Emirates to withdraw from the organization of petroleum
00:13:44producing countries, or it withdrew itself, but it implemented policies
00:13:47that forced the UAE to withdraw, meaning Saudi Arabia is one of the two or three
00:13:50countries that determine the global oil market.
00:13:54This great power, as we mentioned before,
00:13:57and you will remember very well, is the foreign country with the most assets
00:14:00in the United States. All of these give it an advantage,
00:14:04so it is important, of course. Therefore, Ansar Allah is fighting
00:14:08such an important power, and look how difficult
00:14:12it is for them. Now, the axis of resistance, which is centered around Iran,
00:14:15is slowly shifting towards Ansar Allah today, we don't know what will happen tomorrow.
00:14:19These are very important developments, to be honest,
00:14:22because Mohammed bin Salman
00:14:26could not have calculated that it would last this long,
00:14:29he didn't think it would last this long. Yemen is a fragmented country,
00:14:32it has a problem with governance and stability,
00:14:36it's a divided thing, the Sanaa government is separate,
00:14:40and those organized elsewhere are separate. And they also formed a transitional
00:14:43council, as you know, the United Arab Emirates formed it.
00:14:46By the way, Saudi Arabia hit the convoy that supplied
00:14:50arms to the transitional council formed by the United Arab Emirates,
00:14:53its ally. So Saudi Arabia
00:15:00is also strengthening Ansar Allah because
00:15:03the alliance facing it is falling apart from within.
00:15:07So whoever it was, they would be strong, Ansar is already strong,
00:15:10but these are also among the reasons that make them strong.
00:15:14I always say this about Saudi Arabia, you know,
00:15:17I am saying this by referring to all of Saudi Arabia.
00:15:19Its first founder
00:15:23might be different, but he will be the youngest king if he becomes one.
00:15:26He is getting older though, because he couldn't become one.
00:15:29Yes, his father is also living a long life, so even if he dies
00:15:33in 10 years, he will still be young,
00:15:37maybe 50 years old when he becomes king, a young king. How can he make so many mistakes
00:15:40repeatedly? Think about it, Aramco was attacked,
00:15:44because he doesn't pay the price for the murder he committed
00:15:47in Turkey, or whatever the crime was,
00:15:51it's easy to make mistakes again when you don't pay the price.
00:15:54I know I sound fatalistic, but the consequences of your political
00:15:58mistakes somehow come back to you. This is a serious mistake.
00:16:02Now, within Saudi Arabia, although it is not spoken much,
00:16:06we understand from the opposition abroad that there is a serious reaction against Mohammed bin.
00:16:09There are 16,000 princes and princesses there, Isıncım,
00:16:13can there be such a thing, for God's sake? Now, a large part of them,
00:16:17or rather, have an opposition to Mohammed bin Salman for known reasons.
00:16:19Now, there are those who oppose him by saying that
00:16:22he is making the country experience a kind of Vietnam syndrome.
00:16:26Yes, I mean, he had said that he had withdrawn
00:16:29from the war for a while, but now,
00:16:33after Saudi Arabia
00:16:36and Yemen reached a hot conflict point,
00:16:39but because of the attacks by the United States and Israel on Iran,
00:16:43and while Saudi Arabia is still a target
00:16:47of Iran's attacks
00:16:48at such a stage,
00:17:09I will just present our news then, friends,
00:17:11the Mecca Agreement.
00:17:19Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan announced Ankara's
00:17:23stance on military support to Saudi Arabia,
00:17:26which is the target of Houthi attacks.
00:17:29Speaking to NTV, Fidan pointed out
00:17:32that Turkey has an alliance responsibility
00:17:36within the scope of the Mecca Alliance. "We see very serious
00:17:39attacks on Saudi Arabia's territorial integrity,
00:17:43sovereignty, and infrastructure, when we look at our agreement,
00:17:45there is an alliance
00:17:49responsibility between the countries,
00:17:52and our President, as you know, is truly
00:17:56a man of his word, there is a matter that we have signed
00:17:59as a state, and we are in solidarity
00:18:02on this matter." The Mecca Defense
00:18:06Agreement between Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan
00:18:09considers an attack
00:18:11on one of its members
00:18:15as an attack on all. Fidan announced
00:18:18that undisclosed discussions were held
00:18:21among the members of the Mecca Alliance. He stated
00:18:24that Saudi Arabia might have military
00:18:27needs, especially in technical matters,
00:18:31and said that
00:18:32there would be no problem
00:18:37in meeting these. He said that Saudi Arabia
00:18:41should be kept out of the war between the United States
00:18:44and Iran. He also stated
00:18:46that Riyadh is not seeking
00:19:15Now, just as Saudi Arabia has started
00:19:19a new conflict with the Houthis, but at a point where it is also being targeted
00:19:22by Iran due to the attacks by the United States and Israel on Iran,
00:19:26meaning while it is in a state of conflict,
00:19:29Turkey,
00:19:32Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan formed an alliance.
00:19:34Now, it has not been announced who this defense
00:19:38alliance is against,
00:19:41there is no text, we don't know the scope of the agreement,
00:19:44and from the beginning, there were loud concerns
00:19:48about whether Turkey's involvement in such a defense alliance
00:19:52would drag us into a war, but in fact,
00:19:55there is no text available,
00:19:59we don't know, but Hakan Fidan, this time,
00:20:02sorry, by reminding that President Erdoğan
00:20:06is also a man of his word, he implied
00:20:09that there is a promise made, and that they can give military
00:20:12support to Saudi Arabia. This seems very important
00:20:16to me. Of course it is important.
00:20:20What do you think? Yes, it is important, Isın,
00:20:23if I am not mistaken, we are following the country,
00:20:27there is no way I could have missed this, this agreement has not been approved
00:20:30by the Grand National Assembly of Turkey, there is no agreement,
00:20:33there is no text, we don't know yet. but we don't know the text.
00:20:50We will evaluate it, right? Even if the ambassador doesn't
00:20:53explain it that way, that's the name they gave it,
00:20:56yes. In any case,
00:21:00I think it will not become official until it is approved
00:21:03by the Grand National Assembly of Turkey. Therefore, Hakan Fidan's statement
00:21:06is serious in this regard.
00:21:10For him to say that we will do what our President says means that the Grand National Assembly of Turkey
00:21:14will be excluded. I am not saying it happened, but if it does, that's what it means.
00:21:17But he might also be saying this to improve
00:21:21the situation, which is possible, because this is a difficult
00:21:24decision for Turkey as well. By the way,
00:21:28this is the agreement, isn't it? I am not going over it,
00:21:31but let's just say for now that we understand
00:21:34the reason why the Mecca agreement was drafted and made so hastily,
00:21:38because it was made hastily. Meaning, Saudi Arabia
00:21:41invited it, right? Because they already had a good relationship with Pakistan.
00:21:44I was just about to say that. They made a bilateral agreement
00:21:47about a year before this agreement, Saudi Arabia
00:21:51and Pakistan. And the main
00:21:54articles of that agreement were transferred to the Mecca Agreement.
00:21:58The main article is that if one of the members is attacked,
00:22:02the others will go to their side and support them. They also declared it together.
00:22:05Yes, exactly. This is also in the Mecca Agreement.
00:22:09And our objection, or at least my objection,
00:22:11is this: Turkey, I mean,
00:22:14there is no issue that doesn't concern Turkey anymore,
00:22:18there is no issue that doesn't concern any country, every issue concerns it,
00:22:21but we are not talking about something that is directly among Turkey's priorities.
00:22:25If a proxy war is going on there, I don't think it is going on for Iran, but even
00:22:28if it is, Turkey's involvement in this way is understandable,
00:22:32but if there is no such proxy war there, the question can be asked what Turkey's business is there.
00:22:36Now, the interesting thing here is this: Is intervention
00:22:40as easy as it seems? We need to discuss that.
00:22:43As you reminded before, Saudi Arabia
00:22:46and Pakistan made a bilateral agreement,
00:22:49and the same Pakistan is in the Mecca alliance.
00:22:52It is one of the countries that should intervene before Turkey.
00:22:56It probably needs to do that, because the previous agreement
00:23:00also requires this. It cannot do it,
00:23:04I am not saying it won't be able to, but it cannot do it. And its prime minister
00:23:07or foreign minister made a statement recently, I even wrote about it.
00:23:11He says, we have a very long border with Iran, and we already have border problems there,
00:23:14this could revive. And there is something forgotten,
00:23:17Pakistan has the most Shiites outside of Iran.
00:23:20Now, while there is a Pakistan that considers
00:23:23all these things, even if Turkey does not
00:23:27experience similar problems
00:23:28in the same way,
00:23:31for Turkey to give the impression that it is intervening or will intervene
00:23:35is serious, if you ask me. Turkey also needs to make some calculations.
00:23:38Recently, yes, I mean,
00:23:42it's at least a message, maybe it aims to be a deterrent,
00:23:46but as I said, that message,
00:23:56its language, I say this for everyone without exception,
00:23:59is very bad. Now, an Ansar Allah official made
00:24:02a statement, 'Rude official from Ansar Allah threatens Turkey'.
00:24:05Why would that person threaten Turkey? He says, if Turkey
00:24:08comes, we will resist it in our country.
00:24:12It's that simple, because the incoming
00:24:14force is an occupying
00:24:16force. During the occupation of Istanbul,
00:24:20didn't Indian and Pakistani Muslims come? Were we like, 'Oh, they are Muslims,
00:24:23let's not throw stones at them'? No. Whoever you are,
00:24:27you are coming as an occupying force. Ansar Allah is not acting
00:24:30this way because it specifically
00:24:34holds animosity towards Turkey or Turks. It says, whoever
00:24:37comes to my country alongside Saudi Arabia is an occupying force, and I will defend myself against them.
00:24:41It's that simple. This issue should be framed this way.
00:24:44Of course, but frankly, Hakan Fidan's statement, this
00:24:48statement frightened me. Because, yes, yes,
00:24:51because at least, at least, there would be a side
00:24:55that could save this situation, it could be like this, as I said earlier, let's see if it
00:24:59passes through parliament, parliament will decide, it would have been more appropriate to say that we will take
00:25:02a stance accordingly, but the issue keeps coming back, Mr. President
00:25:06keeps his word, this country cannot function based on whether Mr. President keeps his word or not,
00:25:10there is no such thing as a country functioning or stopping based on
00:25:14the word of a single person, this is reaching a very grave
00:25:16point, now, I'm not saying it will be like this again.
00:25:20But yes, when Mr. Erdoğan says let it
00:25:23happen, will Turkey go to war? Look, in this country, in our country,
00:25:27years ago, when I was in London, it wasn't good to start like this,
00:25:31but during the Iraq war, the Iraq War was about to begin, America was
00:25:34pouncing on Iraq, we don't like Saddam or anything, that's a separate issue, but
00:25:38with the thought that there would be an attack on the Iraqi people, countless demonstrations
00:25:42were held in Trafalgar Square, now why am I saying this, yes, now why
00:25:45am I saying this, yes, you will remember and understand why I'm saying this, my dear
00:25:48Işın, there. Anti-war songs, folk songs, anthems
00:25:52were being sung. So, what did we sing as anti-war, do you know?
00:25:55The Yemen folk song. The most magnificent
00:25:59anti-war folk song ever is the Yemen folk song. When
00:26:02I still listen to it, my eyes well up. We
00:26:05sang the Yemen song, the Yemen folk song there. Okay,
00:26:08it was Ottoman land, there was a civil war. The Ottomans went
00:26:12there to suppress the war, countless Ottoman
00:26:15soldiers died. It's very tragic, you know the lyrics. We sang
00:26:18that folk song. The Yemen folk song, and then we told the British about it too.
00:26:22Now, may those same folk songs not need to be written again. You
00:26:26have business in Yemen, I don't like using such phrases, but why fight
00:26:30with Yemenis we'd greet on the street? There's
00:26:32no point, is there? Now, with Saudi Arabia, we still
00:26:35don't understand, we don't know the content, we don't understand the reason at all, I think
00:26:39the reason is clear, an axis against Iran
00:26:42is being formed, or rather, there are axes, the Mecca alliance is one
00:26:46of them, and Turkey did not miss the opportunity to take
00:26:49its place in it, and it is expected to fulfill
00:26:52its obligations, it will be pressured to do so, I hope it doesn't, I hope it doesn't, I think so too,
00:26:56I mean, let there be no new Yemen folk songs, because,
00:26:59let me tell you a note, another anti-war.
00:27:03"let's share the protest with our viewers, like this:
00:27:06You know Hasan Ünal, Professor of International Relations,
00:27:09in his social media post, we actually discussed the content
00:27:13quite a bit, on similar things, but he also emphasized this, which I liked,
00:27:16I want to say it, these types of agreements, he says, are made if
00:27:20there is an attack, that is, an attack on them is considered an attack
00:27:24on all of us, if the attacking
00:27:28party is one of the alliance members, the obligation to help
00:27:31automatically disappears."
00:27:41Or will Saudi Arabia take a step to defeat
00:27:45the Houthis in Yemen, will it need support
00:27:48in that regard? Thank you very much to Professor Ünal
00:27:52on my own behalf, he touched upon a good point, because who
00:27:56is the aggressor? Let's talk about that. So, that needs to be discussed first. Go ahead,
00:28:00I know that Saudi Arabia is the aggressor. That's
00:28:04an important point, yes, I mean, let's elaborate on this a bit,
00:28:07yes, because Ansarullah or someone else is defending their country, what
00:28:11are you going to do now? I mean, no matter how justified Saudi Arabia's
00:28:14reasons are, there is another internationally recognized government
00:28:18there, yes, there is, it has international recognition,
00:28:21and as you said, a proxy war is being waged between the Saudis
00:28:25and the Houthis, meaning Saudi Arabia is supporting another
00:28:29proxy force there, it's very clear, yes, bravo. I thank
00:28:33the professor once again, this is the truth, we really need to explain and
00:28:36disseminate this, but I don't know what good it will do,
00:28:39I'm still saying it, based on what the professor said,
00:28:42Mr. Fidan's statement is a very grave statement, I hope it just remains
00:28:46a statement, I mean, I hope it was said and passed.
00:28:50Let me add another reason that comes to my mind:
00:28:53President Erdoğan went to the United States a short while
00:28:56ago with a large delegation, including the Minister of Justice and
00:29:00the Minister of Foreign Affairs. There are United Nations General
00:29:04Assembly sessions, and of course he has meetings with Trump, or they are
00:29:08expected, as Barak said, but it hasn't been officially
00:29:12confirmed, they say it will be a quick meeting, but on the other hand,
00:29:15new reports of attacks on Iran by the United States are being discussed,
00:29:18will it attack or not? Iran says it has received intelligence,
00:29:22but on the other hand, the United States has immensely increased
00:29:26economic pressure, yes, and as you know,
00:29:29everyone is very angry, saying "you're not supporting me."
00:29:32This economic pressure has reached a point where it includes
00:29:36everyone doing business with Iran, and in Turkey, Iran's most
00:29:39important bank's branch here has been closed, the BDDK
00:29:43decided this itself, there are airline companies and so on,
00:29:47Turkey is taking steps in this regard, these are important before
00:29:51this visit, of course, there could be consequences that affect Turkey,
00:29:54but America could have waited perhaps, but I don't think it's a coincidence
00:29:58that it happened before this visit, all these things will be discussed
00:30:01there. Trump will hold a meeting with the leaders of the Gulf
00:30:05countries, including Oman, and they will probably discuss
00:30:08the Houthis and Iran, and Turkey might be going
00:30:12to the United States as a message, saying "look, we stand
00:30:16with the Saudis." I hope so, I mean, I hope these words
00:30:19were said only out of concern for a message, okay, we made
00:30:23an alliance, that's why we'll
00:30:52you there are protests, and Trump is telling all
00:30:55his allies to come and help him in Hormuz, help
00:30:59him against Iran, he says. It has become so costly
00:31:01that it will cause him to
00:31:05party. South Korea was one of these countries,
00:31:08yes, protests in South Korea continue, even
00:31:12if they say they won't send soldiers.
00:31:35came out to protest against the possibility of participating
00:31:38in the Iran war. After US President Donald Trump
00:31:41requested military support from his allies,
00:31:45similar protest demonstrations are being
00:31:48held in the country.
00:31:52Trump had increased pressure on Seoul, citing
00:31:54its insufficient support in the Iran war. He had
00:31:58threatened not to protect South Korea against North
00:32:02Korea, and had also narrowed the scope of joint
00:32:05military exercises.
00:32:08Under pressure, the South Korean government considered
00:32:12the option of sending military forces to the Strait
00:32:15of Hormuz, but as public reactions
00:32:18grew, President clarified his country's
00:32:21stance.
00:32:25He stated that there would be no military deployment
00:32:29that would lead to their involvement in the war. Seoul
00:32:32is currently keeping open the possibility of playing
00:32:35a limited role to ensure the security of merchant
00:32:38ships and oil shipments in the Strait of Hormuz.
00:32:42According to a survey
00:32:45conducted in September, 55% of South Koreans
00:32:49strongly oppose sending
00:32:52soldiers to war.
00:32:53Yes, we are joined
00:33:14you because you prepared
00:33:17a report that points to a change in Turkey's
00:33:20position on nuclear energy, but also on nuclear
00:33:23armament, taking its past into account,
00:33:27so we are curious about this report. Let me
00:33:30ask you right away, why did you write this report, why
00:33:33specifically there has actually
00:33:37been a discussion in Washington for a while, one
00:33:40camp says, and this camp generally takes
00:33:44a very critical view of the Turkish
00:33:47government, it says that Turkey has been working on a nuclear
00:33:50weapons program for a long time and its ultimate
00:33:53goal is to acquire nuclear weapons. The other camp, which also
00:33:57sees its mission as defending the Turkish
00:34:01government in Washington and Western capitals, and
00:34:05they say that such a thing is definitely
00:34:08not in question. Turkey's nuclear program
00:34:11is entirely peaceful and Turkey never intends
00:34:15to acquire nuclear weapons, it says. Actually, this discussion,
00:34:19whether Turkey is acquiring nuclear weapons in the West,
00:34:22especially the discussion in Washington is not new,
00:34:25its roots go back to the 1960s. When
00:34:29I was doing research for this report and entered the archives,
00:34:33I saw that in 1966, the then ambassador,
00:34:36the American ambassador to Ankara, sent a confidential
00:34:39memorandum to Washington, and the memorandum stated that
00:34:43Turkey was taking steps towards a nuclear
00:34:46weapons program. Therefore, these suspicions always existed. The reason
00:34:50I wanted to write this report is that these two camps
00:34:53I mentioned earlier do not present analytical
00:34:57data to support their theses, that is, one side says
00:35:00Turkey is acquiring nuclear weapons because Turkey is such a country,
00:35:04a militaristic country. The other side says no, it is not interested
00:35:07in nuclear weapons because Turkey is a peaceful country.
00:35:10What I tried to do with my report was to fill
00:35:14this analytical gap and
00:35:23answer the questions of whether it has the capacity to produce
00:35:26nuclear weapons at this point. That's why I wrote the report. Then,
00:35:30of course, your report should be read for the answers
00:35:33you found to these questions, but please also convey them
00:35:37to us. I will ask if there has been a
00:35:40change in perspective, but we are actually feeling
00:35:43a change across the entire region, for example, Saudi
00:35:46Arabia, maybe we'll talk about that later. How has
00:35:50Turkey's view on nuclear weapons changed,
00:35:53has it changed? Now, my basic
00:35:56argument in the report is this: I say that today,
00:35:59we don't have any evidence that Turkey is
00:36:03building a nuclear bomb. Indeed, according to the
00:36:06International Atomic Energy Agency data, Turkey is not technically
00:36:09a country with the capacity to produce nuclear weapons
00:36:13at the moment. For this, "it takes at least 10 years
00:36:17to reach that point technically, but I think the important
00:36:19thing is not this. The important thing is that any country
00:36:23that has been determined to produce nuclear weapons
00:36:26has done it one way or another. So, this lack of capacity
00:36:30is not an obstacle to this program,
00:36:33it takes maybe 3 years, 5 years, 10 years,
00:36:36but countries that want to can reach that point. Therefore,
00:36:40the real question here is, does this
00:36:43country want to? I mean, does it want to acquire nuclear weapons?
00:36:47Political will plays a very important role here. That's
00:36:50why what I tried to explain in the report was that
00:36:54Ankara's perspective on nuclear weapons has undergone
00:36:57a significant change. And this change has actually
00:37:01been happening since the July 15 coup attempt, but we have
00:37:05seen it gain momentum in recent years. Now, actually,
00:37:08Turkey ratified the Nuclear Non-Proliferation
00:37:11Treaty in 1980,
00:37:13and later also ratified the additional protocol, meaning
00:37:17all of Turkey's nuclear activities are subject
00:37:20to international control, and for many years, Turkey
00:37:24has been a country that opposes nuclear proliferation and wants
00:37:28a nuclear-weapon-free Middle East. That is, it has not
00:37:31only signed international agreements, but has also
00:37:34adopted this as a norm. At the point we are today,
00:37:38however, when we look at the statements of President
00:37:41Erdoğan and recently Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan,
00:37:44we see a different language. Instead of a categorical
00:37:48statement like "Turkey doesn't need nuclear
00:37:52weapons," the message now is that if
00:37:55the world continues to change like this, Turkey may
00:37:59have to consider this option. We saw this most recently
00:38:03in Mr. Hakan Fidan's message, but before that, in 2019,
00:38:06for example, Mr. Erdoğan had made
00:38:10a similar statement, and interestingly
00:38:14enough, in his statement, he said this
00:38:17during a speech about the progress Turkey has
00:38:20made in the defense industry, saying
00:38:23that actually, such weapons are against Islam,
00:38:28but if the balance of power requires it,
00:38:30Turkey may also need to acquire these weapons,
00:38:34and he emphasized that double standard, asking why
00:38:37countries like Israel in the region have nuclear
00:38:41weapons but we don't, all developed countries have them.
00:38:45Therefore, we understand that Mr. Erdoğan also
00:38:48sees acquiring nuclear weapons as a source
00:38:51of prestige. Now, my main
00:38:54argument in my report is that it's a very low
00:38:57probability that Turkey will try to make a bomb
00:39:01in the short term, but instead of completely closing
00:39:04the nuclear option, it is becoming increasingly
00:39:08likely that it wants to create a capacity
00:39:11that would allow it to have this option if
00:39:14conditions change in the future. This is called hedging in the
00:39:18literature, meaning roughly keeping the nuclear option
00:39:22open, we can say. So, today, Turkey
00:39:25is not saying "I'm building a bomb," it's not crossing
00:39:29the threshold, but if the security environment
00:39:32completely changes tomorrow, it doesn't want to start
00:39:35from scratch, and it is developing the technological
00:39:38and scientific infrastructure that will
00:39:41allow it to reach that capacity if necessary
00:39:44in the future. Here, I'd like to try to explain
00:39:48a point that caught my eye, hoping it will be clarifying.
00:39:52So, okay, Turkey has entered a nuclear energy
00:39:55program, but to own
00:39:58nuclear weapons, as far as I know, the issue
00:40:01that got Iran into trouble was
00:40:04being able to enrich uranium. This
00:40:08is the next stage, you say that these capabilities
00:40:11make a country able to
00:40:15keep that open as an option.
00:40:18Now, Saudi Arabia, perhaps
00:40:22with similar current concerns, if
00:40:25you'd like to elaborate, wants to enter a nuclear
00:40:28program, but it needed approval from America.
00:40:31Trump even gave it the green light,
00:40:35and then for the uranium enrichment
00:40:38part, he said to sign the Abraham Accords and
00:40:42so on. Now, I just learned from you, Gönül Tol,
00:40:46that Saudi Arabia also announced a uranium discovery,
00:40:49but what we see here is that you need
00:40:53to have the capacity to enrich uranium to enter
00:40:58into weapons production, or because
00:41:01they probably aren't telling you to make weapons with uranium
00:41:05you get from others, if so, please correct me,
00:41:08but it seems like a kind of permission mechanism
00:41:12is needed. What do you say?
00:41:15Yes, actually, you mentioned very important
00:41:19points here. It needs to be elaborated. Yes, uranium
00:41:22enrichment is the most important technology in nuclear
00:41:26weapons production. This uranium
00:41:29enrichment technology, but the only way to produce
00:41:32nuclear weapons is not through uranium
00:41:36enrichment technology. You can also acquire
00:41:39nuclear weapons by enriching plutonium.
00:41:42India used this technology in the 1970s, and
00:41:46interestingly, this is a technology produced by Canada.
00:41:49Canada, and currently Turkey is in talks with
00:41:53Canada for the second and third nuclear
00:41:57facility, and the Canadian diplomats I spoke to
00:42:00say that there is a significant technology
00:42:04sharing on the table, from our perspective,
00:42:07but Canadian diplomats say that
00:42:11there is a very serious technology sharing issue on the table.
00:42:15No final decision has been reached yet, but
00:42:18why am I talking about Canada? Because Canadian
00:42:21technology, actually, Canada is the country
00:42:25with the fastest nuclear weapons acquisition capacity
00:42:28with this technology it has, and it doesn't
00:42:31do this by enriching uranium, because the technology
00:42:34it uses does not require uranium enrichment,
00:42:38instead it uses plutonium. And while this
00:42:41plutonium is used, I am not an engineer,
00:42:44I am sharing as much as I
00:42:48understand and what has been shared with me.
00:42:50If you go into producing nuclear weapons
00:42:54through plutonium, this also provides
00:42:56you with an advantage in that you can produce
00:43:00it much faster, but at the same time,
00:43:04it allows you to evade international
00:43:07inspection mechanisms. This is one.
00:43:11Therefore, Turkey's doing this with Canada
00:43:15and especially requesting technology sharing
00:43:18made me think that this hedging,
00:43:22this path of keeping the nuclear option open,
00:43:25is being pursued. This reinforces my view.
00:43:29Secondly, let's say a country,
00:43:32especially a country that has signed
00:43:36the NPT, the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty,
00:43:40like Turkey, can be asked this question:
00:43:43There is an inspection mechanism, how will
00:43:47it do it secretly? That's the question.
00:43:50The answer is actually that the
00:43:53content of this agreement, this Nuclear Non-Proliferation
00:43:56Treaty, actually
00:43:59allows you to gather and build
00:44:03all the necessary technological capabilities up to
00:44:06the step before a nuclear weapon. Therefore,
00:44:10Turkey, when it says it wants to build
00:44:13all the technology up to a nuclear
00:44:17weapon, is actually not violating
00:44:20any international agreement. Now, regarding
00:44:24Saudi Arabia, the nuclear agreement Saudi
00:44:27Arabia signed with the US is
00:44:30a very important agreement.
00:44:34So far, the agreements signed by America
00:44:38with other countries for
00:44:40peaceful nuclear programs are called 123
00:44:43agreements. It signed with the United Arab
00:44:46Emirates in the past. It signed these agreements
00:44:49with Turkey from the region. The agreement it signed
00:44:53with Saudi Arabia is different from these 123
00:44:56agreements. Why is it different? Because
00:44:59it opens the way for uranium enrichment.
00:45:03It doesn't directly give the green light.
00:45:06It says, "Let's see the situation on the
00:45:10ground for two years." "If the agreement is approved
00:45:13in its current form, Saudi Arabia will be able
00:45:16to pursue uranium enrichment. All these things create
00:45:20concern in the region. I want to touch on this point:
00:45:23why is there a change in Turkey's attitude? Because
00:45:26it is also related to Saudi Arabia's current
00:45:29position. Now, why has Turkey been so
00:45:33against nuclear armament for decades, from the
00:45:3560s, 70s, 80s, and then since
00:45:392011, there has been a change in this
00:45:42direction, and the current regional conjuncture reinforces
00:45:46this change, this motivation. What happened? First, of course,
00:45:49in the current conjuncture, the Iran war, meaning
00:45:53not only Turkey but also regional countries,
00:45:57when they look at today's Iranian regime, compared
00:46:00to the Iranian regime before the February
00:46:0328th War, they see that its desire to acquire
00:46:06nuclear weapons is much stronger. Therefore,
00:46:10there is an Iran next to us with a very high potential
00:46:13to acquire nuclear weapons. This is one of the motivations.
00:46:16Secondly, Israel. Of course, there is a very
00:46:20serious conflict between Turkey and Israel,
00:46:23there are conflicting interests. And then of course,
00:46:27Israel has nuclear weapons, but Turkey was
00:46:30saying, "Why does the international system treat Israel differently?"
00:46:34And for Ankara, this perception of double
00:46:37standards is not new, it has always said this.
00:46:40Today, with relations with Israel so tense,
00:46:44and Israel's nuclear program, its nuclear
00:46:48weapons, so openly discussed, some Israeli
00:46:51politicians talked about using
00:46:55a nuclear bomb in Gaza. Until now, nothing was
00:46:58said about this, everyone knew Israel had nuclear
00:47:02weapons, but no one was saying anything. This
00:47:05has been made public, and it changes the balance of power.
00:47:09Thirdly, Saudi Arabia. When Turkey looks at the
00:47:13region, everyone is acquiring them. Saudi Arabia's
00:47:17Mohammed bin Salman also said, "We can
00:47:20also acquire nuclear weapons if Iran does."
00:47:23This is an extra factor. And fourthly,
00:47:27and I think most importantly, confidence in America's
00:47:31security guarantees to the world, to Turkey, to
00:47:34NATO, has weakened greatly. I mean, today there's
00:47:37an American president who says he'll withdraw from NATO.
00:47:41Now, on the one hand, we are part of NATO's
00:47:45nuclear security umbrella. There are five countries,
00:47:48and Turkey is one. So, you might think,
00:47:52why would we want our own nuclear weapons, they're right here, we're under this
00:47:56umbrella. But on the other hand, there's
00:48:00a technical problem there, a technical problem
00:48:03caused by F-35s, which I'll explain shortly,
00:48:07and politically, we don't know.
00:48:10America thinks that Turkey didn't stand by
00:48:14us during critical times, like when
00:48:17we shot down the Russian plane, and we had
00:48:21many problems. Why should we trust its nuclear
00:48:24So, that is, our exclusion from the F-35
00:48:27program might have had many negative effects,
00:48:30but one of the things that is not discussed at all is the nuclear
00:48:34issue, because F-35s
00:48:37have the nuclear
00:48:40bomb carrying certificate.
00:48:44Currently, since Turkey has been excluded from the F-35
00:48:47and does not have the F-35, it does not have a nuclear
00:48:51weapon carrying certified aircraft.
00:48:54Let's say, God forbid, there was such a threat,
00:48:57where would it come from? We would
00:49:00talk to America, America would give permission, America would bring such
00:49:04an aircraft from Europe, so all these are developments that
00:49:08increase Turkey's nuclear concerns. Gönül Tol, thank
00:49:11you very much, I learned a lot. Yes, if
00:49:14you have any questions, please ask them. One thing caught my attention and
00:49:18I was saddened, to be honest. Is this just your opinion while preparing
00:49:21your report? Did you get information from officials?
00:49:25I even took notes so I wouldn't misunderstand. Now you said that among the reasons
00:49:28for Turkey's acquisition of nuclear weapons, among the reasons that drove it to this,
00:49:31the first was Iran's efforts to acquire nuclear weapons,
00:49:34and the second was the concern about
00:49:38Israel's acquisition of nuclear weapons. Do
00:49:40you think Turkey sees Iran as the primary threat?
00:49:43Well, Turkey has always said
00:49:46that it sees Israel as a threat, but
00:49:50now...
00:49:53even before this war, Turkey's stance was: We
00:49:56support Iran's peaceful nuclear program, and we even
00:50:00support its right to enrich uranium. Turkey,
00:50:04rightly so, said that the
00:50:07Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty
00:50:10gives the signatory country the right to enrich
00:50:13uranium. Therefore, Iran also has this right.
00:50:16Now, during the nuclear negotiations with Iran during the Obama era,
00:50:20this caused a reaction in Washington,
00:50:24it caused a reaction. Turkey often said that Iran could enrich uranium,
00:50:28but it also always said that
00:50:31we are against a nuclear Iran, meaning an Iran that has acquired
00:50:34nuclear weapons. Therefore,
00:50:38now, at the point we have reached today, there was
00:50:41such a perception in Ankara about the previous regime: a very pragmatic
00:50:45regime that did not want to take risks regarding nuclear
00:50:49issues. However, at the point we have reached today,
00:50:52this regime is much more
00:50:55inclined to take risks, they believe this.
00:50:58If you ask which one they see as a greater threat, of course,
00:51:02I cannot answer this from an analytical
00:51:05perspective, but both of them, and on the other hand,
00:51:09a region heading towards a nuclear arms race poses a threat
00:51:12to Turkey. On the other hand, let me also add that it's not only in the Middle East,
00:51:16but also in Europe.
00:51:20Countries that are concerned about Trump's security
00:51:23guarantee and the future of NATO have also adopted
00:51:26this hedging strategy that Turkey has, for example,
00:51:30Poland or Norway, many European
00:51:33countries no longer trust NATO in this sense. So all
00:51:37these things are pushing Turkey to reconsider
00:52:50bother me. This is not a polemic or anything, of course, but I don't agree with Gönül Hanım.
00:52:54Iran, India had a very good policy once, now it has changed.
00:52:57It used to say, "I am against nuclear weapons, and so are you, no doubt."
00:53:01Hmm, India said, "nuclear
00:53:04weapons should be in everyone's hands or in no one's hands, it's that simple."
00:53:08I,
00:53:12absolutely, I am for that too, I wish it weren't in anyone's hands. But if it is in some people's hands,
00:53:15it should be in everyone's hands. So if Israel has it, Iran should not have it, if Pakistan
00:53:19has it and India has it, Pakistan should not have it, that's not possible,
00:53:22but there shouldn't be weapons. Two standards are the root
00:53:25of all problems.
01:01:10had met here before with a similar approach.
01:01:13When? Immediately
01:01:17after Trump, right? Because
01:01:20the giants of that technology
01:01:24world, the richest people in the world, were together. And
01:01:27you talked about an alliance then.
01:01:31A lot of time has passed, and I think we have
01:01:33started to see the results
01:01:37of this alliance, am I right? Yes, we have started to see them.
01:01:41Now, while preparing for the broadcast for you,
01:01:44it came at just the right time, we even talked about it with you. There's
01:01:48a very popular author, Noam Klein, and a new book he wrote
01:01:50with Astra Taylor just came
01:01:54out and let me tell you the title of that
01:01:57book: "Doomsday Fascism and the Fight for a Living
01:02:00World." In it, of course,
01:02:04it explains a lot by dissecting
01:02:07the alliance behind Trump, but
01:02:10there, what we will talk about in a moment,
01:02:14this alliance that united behind
01:02:17Trump, can we call them techno-oligarchs?
01:02:20We can, I think techno-oligarchs is a very
01:02:23apt term to describe them. I prepared
01:02:27a statement about the techno-oligarchs behind
01:02:30Trump from an interview
01:02:32he gave. Let's listen to it, dear
01:02:35viewers, and then we will discuss it.
01:02:39We see that the Trump administration is all
01:02:43in, all in on AI and not much else. So
01:02:47when we look
01:02:50the second Trump inauguration, we see all those tech execs given their
01:02:53front seats and and they're lined up, our position
01:02:57is that that it was the AI, the the
01:03:00promise of generative AI eating the economy that actually turned
01:03:04them, uh turned them fascist and caused this
01:03:07incredible alliance with the Trump regime that we're seeing. Yeah, that they that
01:03:11they that that that alliance has that alliance has served
01:03:14them incredibly well. It has produced the first trillionaire. It has
01:03:18produced companies that are claiming valuations roughly
01:03:21equivalent to the to the entire US economy, and what they
01:03:25wanted from Donald Trump was exactly what they got, a frontier. You
01:03:29use the, you, you hear this phrase used all the time now, frontier
01:03:32AI. But if you think about what a frontier is, a frontier is a wild
01:03:36west, it has no
01:03:37rules.
01:03:41What would you like to say? First of all, we started with that
01:03:45photo, I think, when I was here last, and I remember
01:03:49saying then that all these people were against Trump
01:03:52in the previous Trump era and openly so,
01:03:56clearly against him. Even Jeff Bezos's newspaper came out with the headline
01:04:01"Democracy Dies in Darkness". We asked the question, "What
01:04:04happened that they lined up behind Trump today?" That day,
01:04:08and since then, exactly what you said happened, that is, their lining
01:04:11up behind Trump, starting with Elon Musk,
01:04:14but for all of them, for Sam Altman, for Dario
01:04:17Amadei, for Jeff Bezos, for all of them,
01:04:21it returned as an economic contribution. Now,
01:04:25Artificial Intelligence, you also talked about it last week, is Artificial
01:04:28Intelligence a threat to humanity?
01:04:32Can Artificial Intelligence kill us? Trump's
01:04:36reaction to these questions is also very big. For the past 2-3 days, he has been
01:04:39constantly saying that this is a conspiracy theory,
01:04:43that it's a lie like COVID, and that only an intelligent,
01:04:46high-IQ (in parentheses) president can overcome
01:04:49this. He is very right about this, because Trump
01:04:53has midterm elections ahead of him. We all know the importance
01:04:57of keeping both the Congress and the Senate together for a president,
01:05:01if we know a little about American politics. And
01:05:04the only force driving Trump right now
01:05:08is the economy looking good. And there's only one way for the economy
01:05:11to look good. Klein said something very true there. Artificial
01:05:15Intelligence created the world's first dollar trillionaire.
01:05:18Elon Musk, but as we have been talking about for the
01:05:22past two days, he is a dollar trillionaire because
01:05:25he valued that company as such. That
01:05:28is, tomorrow, if someone for Space,
01:05:31says, "Wait a minute, this company cannot have such a value," or if
01:05:35people decide to sell, or if the largest
01:05:38founding fund that moves SpaceX on the
01:05:41stock market is seized,
01:05:44how will this dollar
01:05:48trillionaire be a dollar trillionaire then? There is
01:05:51no concrete equivalent for this.
01:05:54It is wrong to say that there is no economic or financial
01:05:57equivalent, of course, there is. People see
01:06:01a future in this technology, and they are already
01:06:03investing in this technology.
01:06:06But to think that the equivalent is instantaneous,
01:06:09that if Elon Musk is asked to write a check for one trillion dollars
01:06:13and he goes to the bank, he can give it, yes, he
01:06:17cannot give it. And this
01:06:20is actually one of the most feared things in America,
01:06:24that this is also a bubble, an artificial intelligence bubble,
01:06:27and if the artificial intelligence bubble bursts, who
01:06:31will be left underneath? Now, normally, when bubbles
01:06:34burst, we fear that small investors will be left underneath,
01:06:38we fear loss of labor, because companies
01:06:41have also invested in funds, and when those
01:06:44funds lose, they also lose from the company's daily operating
01:06:47capital. But artificial intelligence has a strange
01:06:50feature. Artificial intelligence does not create labor,
01:06:54on top of that, it can even lead to a decrease
01:06:57in labor.
01:07:00People who reduce labor, that is, people whose
01:07:03labor is reduced, probably do not own
01:07:06SpaceX stock. However, the executives
01:07:09of companies that reduce labor costs by using
01:07:13artificial intelligence probably own
01:07:16SpaceX stock. Now, in this whole
01:07:19story, naturally, the president of Nvidia,
01:07:23Trump, Trump's two
01:07:26sons, Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump, because
01:07:30both of them entered this business of creating
01:07:33data centers for artificial intelligence with very high-value
01:07:37investments. All of them say, "No, they are exaggerating,
01:07:40there is no such thing, they are just scaring the nation for no reason."
01:07:44Even Andrew Yang, one of the presidential
01:07:47candidates, said on television the other
01:07:51day that actually, they only have one thing, they want
01:07:54to do what they want to do. They sent so
01:07:58many agents to the internet, as bots to forums,
01:08:01they polluted the internet. By polluting, he meant
01:08:05they made it unusable for artificial intelligence, because
01:08:09the data you retrieve is the data you wrote, and it constantly
01:08:12says, "I already did this," so artificial
01:08:16intelligence continues without learning anything new.
01:08:18On top of all this, of course, Andrew
01:08:22Yang, as a very libertarian person, said, "No, there's no such thing, don't
01:08:25be afraid at all, artificial intelligence won't eat us, these people just want
01:08:29to create a synthetic internet so they can organize it
01:08:33with lower costs, that's why they're saying
01:08:36this." They entered the story,
01:08:40but as you can see, Trump is very... You said Trump,
01:08:43Trump never leaves a story, you know. Now, while watching
01:08:46Trump on screen, Trump has made a statement.
01:08:50As you know, next week there are United Nations General Assembly
01:08:53meetings, and this Iran issue is of course a very
01:08:56important agenda item. And Trump just said that he
01:09:00can meet face-to-face with Iranian President Pezeshkian
01:09:03on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly sessions. Now, that
01:09:07will probably also appear on our screens as a last-minute
01:09:10news.
01:09:13It's an important statement, but will he meet or
01:09:16not? What will happen at the last minute? Meanwhile,
01:09:19will he attack Iran? We don't know these things. At the
01:09:23end of the day, while he is still at the table with Iran, and the President
01:09:26of Oman officially came on television and said, "Wait
01:09:29a minute, please don't do anything to each other," it is not very possible
01:09:32for anyone to say that he
01:09:36will bomb while meeting, or that he will bomb while
01:09:39meeting. They also need artificial intelligence for the
01:09:43Iran war. Because Iran is now
01:09:46thinking, "Will I enter with ground forces?"
01:09:49No head of state, especially an American head of state, wants to send
01:09:53troops to the field close to an election, especially since the last 50
01:09:56years have been filled with endless wars. But through artificial
01:10:00intelligence, drones, and through artificial
01:10:03intelligence, surveillance, these are all things
01:10:06that benefit him. To be able to use these, he needs to
01:10:10keep artificial intelligence companies free
01:10:13from regulation. Yes,
01:10:16as you also talked about last week, whenever
01:10:19artificial intelligence is discussed in America, the first thing that is said is, "But
01:10:23China, what if China gets ahead of us?" The situation
01:10:25of China and America regarding artificial intelligence is also
01:10:28very interesting, because China does not actually have
01:10:32the computing power, that is, processor
01:10:36power, used for operating artificial intelligence, because how many chips can be given
01:10:40to them, who can give them chips, all these are under
01:10:44America's control since the Biden era. But China has this advantage:
01:10:47they can obtain the artificial intelligence idea
01:10:51and the code through industrial
01:10:55agents or by escaping regulatory
01:10:58limitations, and after
01:11:02obtaining it and distilling it like
01:11:05whiskey, they can transfer it to their own
01:11:09companies. Thus, they don't have to spend
01:11:12the energy spent until they reach that point,
01:11:16that is, until they reach Chat GPT 5.5. But at the same time,
01:11:19they are also following America. It's a bit like
01:11:22a situation in holiday resorts, where a speed
01:11:26boat goes ahead, and behind it come inflatable
01:11:30banana boats and other water toys. And it's
01:11:34like the one behind saying, "We're catching up." No,
01:11:38you're not catching up, you can go because it's going.
01:11:41Therefore, if America
01:11:44slows down, China will probably also have to slow
01:11:47down. Or, these are like two athletes running
01:11:51tied together. That is, America thinks it's
01:11:54ahead, but China is right behind it, and because it's tied
01:11:57to it, the further America goes, the further China
01:12:00will go. And naturally, when they meet again
01:12:04at the United Nations, Xi Jinping, Artificial Intelligence,
01:12:08and artificial intelligence regulation are planned to be discussed a lot.
01:12:11The two geopolitical giants of the world are very
01:12:15interesting in terms of artificial intelligence, because as you notice, we are
01:12:18not saying Russia, we are not saying the European Union, Turkey, Mexico,
01:12:21Brazil, India, we are not saying any of them.
01:12:25Their contribution to artificial intelligence is probably their engineers,
01:12:28meaning the human resources they train work in artificial intelligence laboratories.
01:12:32These two geopolitical powers, two geopolitical
01:12:35powers whose foreign policies are almost completely
01:12:38opposite, are in a race
01:12:42for a technology that can change that foreign policy or any
01:12:46domestic or foreign policy. But as I said, their race
01:12:49is like two athletes tied together, and therefore,
01:12:52one slowing down also slows down the other. One opening
01:12:56up regulation also opens up the other. It's not like
01:13:00the nuclear weapons issue, yes, there's an even more intense
01:13:03story with nuclear weapons, of course, if you don't stop, the other
01:13:06side doesn't stop either, and like in Stanley
01:13:09Kubrick's famous movie, Dr.
01:13:13Strangelove, "I can't stop because you don't stop."
01:13:17Since this is a different position, I understood it better.
01:13:20So, Trump has both political
01:13:23reasons not to regulate artificial intelligence,
01:13:27but also, in a way that we can easily explain
01:13:31now, personal and business-related
01:13:34reasons. That is, his two sons will make an incredible
01:13:38amount of money from data centers, that is, from data
01:13:40centers. They are making money, they will continue
01:13:44to make money. And his son-in-law, Jared
01:13:47Kushner, is involved in so many things
01:13:51that, as Americans would say, he has
01:13:55a finger in every pie. He goes to everyone
01:13:58for negotiations, and he never hesitates to say that
01:14:02he conducts all these negotiations like a business negotiation.
01:14:05if if they were doing well today, he wouldn't need to be sitting at that table,
01:14:09we are seeing a kind of reflection of America's boncher crisis
01:14:13in Turkey. Therefore, regulating
01:14:15yansımasını görüyor gibiyiz, dolayısıyla Trump için
01:14:19artificial intelligence right now is not a good solution
01:14:23or in terms of his economic relations. It's not a solution
01:14:26for Trump politically that suits him. So why
01:14:29would these techno-oligarchs want
01:14:32it to be regulated, and why would they go on TV
01:14:36and say, "This should happen, that should happen," why
01:14:39is the end of the world coming? Because I remember saying, when I last came,
01:14:43"Sam Altman, yes, AI can kill us all, but
01:14:46trust us, we will do it." I said, "Why
01:14:50should I trust you with such a thing?" Uh, I said that. Now,
01:14:54Saman's IPO is already a problem,
01:14:57because it started as a non-profit organization, and it got money from
01:15:01Elon Musk. Elon Musk and he are still fighting
01:15:04about this. But Antropic, SpaceX, all of these
01:15:08either had their IPOs or will have them.
01:15:11It's on the agenda, and engineers are coming out one
01:15:15after another and saying that AI can bring about the end of all
01:15:18of us. You don't see it, but what is called the limit of AI
01:15:22the wild west. Now, in Turkey, when we think
01:15:25of a border, since we come from a state
01:15:29tradition, for us, borders are very solid things. If you
01:15:32even come to the very edge of the border, you can't go
01:15:36But for Americans, this word "frontier" or "border" is
01:15:39very important, because when they discovered America
01:15:43and started settling, especially the west
01:15:47side, what we know as the wild west,
01:15:49was empty. By empty, of course, there were Native
01:15:53Americans there, but they didn't have the weapon power
01:15:57or this or that, and they could go there and, after all
01:16:00kinds of harassment and assault on their lives,
01:16:03their settlements, their economic order, they could settle
01:16:05there. Therefore, what we mean by "if
01:16:09it's a border, it's a border" actually means boundlessness
01:16:12and ungovernability for them.
01:16:15I think the most important thing about the frontier,
01:16:19as James Scott said in "Social", is
01:16:22where governance is difficult. For us, it's the place
01:16:25in the story of "if you can't reach it, it's not yours."
01:16:29Now, when it's like
01:16:31this, everyone says that people will die because of AI,
01:16:35and you will open your company to the public. The first
01:16:38wait a minute, if this is so bad, there will be
01:16:42an incredible state regulation. When incredible
01:16:46state regulation comes, there will be so much reporting, so many
01:16:49bureaucratic obstacles that they won't be able to generate
01:16:53back to the original point. Right? If they can't generate
01:16:56the profits they want, then their pricing will be
01:17:00a bubble. Therefore, even if they start with very
01:17:03high prices, they will probably at first
01:17:07collect shares from what we call small and
01:17:10predatory fund companies, increase the price, and then
01:17:13suddenly sell the shares will collect them again
01:17:17from the bottom. This circulation will continue. So
01:17:20what do you do? At the end of the day, the manager of
01:17:23the Anthropic company, who has very philosophical
01:17:26thoughts, who approaches
01:17:29AI from a very philosophical perspective, if anyone uses
01:17:32the latest model of Claude, do something, it says it
01:17:36doesn't find it ethical and doesn't do it. Despite
01:17:39all of this, at the end of the day, every company
01:17:42exists to make money. This doesn't make
01:17:45them the evil boss in Turkish movies, because
01:17:48those companies will make money so they can pay taxes,
01:17:52they don't pay taxes. There's also this beauty.
01:17:56Because in the long run, if you come and set up
01:18:00a data center in my city,
01:18:02there are governors who say they will give you tax
01:18:06exemptions. There are mayors and governors
01:18:09who want to give incredibly cheap land to Amazon,
01:18:13Elon Musk, Anthropic, OpenAI, Meta
01:18:16to get data centers for themselves, so it's not
01:18:20that either. But therefore, what should you do? If
01:18:24you are a sensible manager, and all
01:18:27these people are not only sensible, but
01:18:31also incredibly intelligent people,
01:18:34we normal mortals can imagine, therefore, to prevent
01:18:38this, they all said, "We are aware of everything
01:18:42and we will slow down," but their real litmus
01:18:45test will be, when a president
01:18:48who cares about this, not Trump, comes along,
01:18:52"Yes, gentlemen," all gentlemen,
01:18:55because we will sit at the table and
01:18:59talk about how this regulation will be. How will I regulate
01:19:02you? What do you know and what don't you know about
01:19:06Can they really appear on the internet in
01:19:10a corrupted way, or was it actually a PR
01:19:13stunt of yours that backfired? Because this constantly
01:19:15escaping AI agent from the sandbox, as
01:19:19they call it, which is exactly a sandbox for children,
01:19:23is also a kind of PR, meaning they are so smart that
01:19:26they can escape from our sandbox. I really
01:19:30believe in something here. A psychology professor
01:19:33from Berkeley said this, but I unfortunately
01:19:37can't remember his name right now. We need to stop attributing
01:19:40human characteristics to AI. Uh-huh. I mean,
01:19:43AI doesn't escape, because AI cannot escape, because
01:19:47it's a being made up of ones and zeros. AI doesn't
01:19:51make decisions on its own. AI can add to
01:19:54the algorithm it was taught before, we're not saying
01:19:57it can't learn, but it's still from that data
01:20:01set, humanity's... the ability to think
01:20:04something that will never happen at a time that
01:20:07will never happen, but isn't that very dangerous?
01:20:11We are already very dangerous, we are already
01:20:14very dangerous, but at the same time, this
01:20:17is always our advantage against AI.
01:20:20I am pessimistic and optimistic
01:20:23about AI. I believe we have an advantage
01:20:27over AI, but my students hear this
01:20:30example from me a lot. They asked people whether
01:20:34they wanted an AI or a human to fly a plane, and
01:20:37everyone expected them to say that planes crash due to
01:20:40pilot error. A significant portion of people
01:20:43said, "No, I want a human to fly it, because
01:20:47humans can come up with incredible solutions
01:20:51in difficult times." For example, you can't teach any
01:20:54AI to land in the Hudson River at any
01:20:58time, because you don't land in rivers, planes
01:21:01cannot land in rivers. Therefore, if humanity
01:21:04has a chance against AI, it's
01:21:08the virtues that come from being human. But
01:21:11at the same time, if there's something that makes
01:21:15AI very dangerous, it's that the people behind
01:21:18it are human, and our sometimes pure evil that comes
01:21:21from being human, meaning we accept being evil
01:21:24for no reason, just to be evil.
01:21:28And when you think about it, we're talking about
01:21:31an American president, power in the world.
01:21:35When entering wars, making sudden decisions,
01:21:39we have to stop and think every time whether
01:21:43what's on that president's mind is the survival of the state
01:21:46or his own business interests. So for
01:21:50people like me who work in political economy,
01:21:53it's an incredible laboratory environment, but at the
01:21:56same time, it's the biggest dream and biggest
01:22:00in political economy. I'll just say one thing, the subjects
01:22:04in the laboratory are us, the people
01:22:07of the world. They're not going to Mars to do this.
01:22:11And that's what was said in Naomi Klein's book "The Shock
01:22:14Doctrine". All these people accept the fact that
01:22:18this world is no longer livable and
01:22:21are acting to create a life for themselves
01:22:24outside of this world. So that dream of going
01:22:28to Mars is not just a dream, it's not just
01:22:32a dream of going to Mars. Buying land in New Zealand
01:22:35is not just a dream. Building a bunker
01:22:38is already a common thing in the American religious
01:22:42right, far right, and evangelical right, because,
01:22:46as Naomi Klein said, there are many doomsday scenarios.
01:22:49So there are people who believe that the end
01:22:52of the world is coming because of what they produce,
01:22:55or scientifically, there are people who believe
01:22:59that the end of the world has come, citing
01:23:01religious reasons. And there are also
01:23:05far-rightists who align with them.
01:23:08There are people who are eagerly awaiting
01:23:11the end of the world, meaning even if they
01:23:15themselves will die, they are waiting for
01:23:18the end of the world, because
01:23:20it's what we call crimes against humanity,
01:23:24hatred against humanity. Perhaps it's something
01:23:28that ordinary people can't comprehend, but yes,
01:23:31a human can feel hatred towards humanity. This
01:23:35is true, we see it when we read enough
01:23:38literature. Therefore, in such a world, if
01:23:41you think the end of the world is coming,
01:23:45for it (like Elon Musk), then you need to reach
01:23:49the money that will take
01:23:58The economic outputs are meaningless, because in your
01:24:02Almighty God's kingdom in heaven, economic
01:24:05outputs are meaningless. Then you want a bunker, because
01:24:09you will hide in bunkers, the doomsday will end,
01:24:13the Messiah will come and take you to where you need
01:24:16to go. If you are far-right, you are already
01:24:20an agent of chaos, and chaos is probably where
01:24:23the far-right and far-left meet in their agent
01:24:26roles. You already love that chaos and
01:24:30want to exist in chaos. And you must have heard
01:24:32that Hollywood is a very famous complotter; if Hollywood
01:24:36says something, it will definitely happen. That's
01:24:39why there are so many series now, like "The Last
01:24:42of Us," there were doomsday scenarios for people.
01:24:46Or screenwriters in Hollywood are also human and
01:24:49they fictionalize what they hear every day with
01:24:52their imagination, asking what would happen
01:24:55if it became reality. So this also has an economics,
01:24:59and economics needs to find something in my imagination.
01:25:01Now, when it's exactly like this, I of
01:25:05course wanted to include the far right, evangelists,
01:25:08etc. Why? Because all those who stand behind
01:25:12Trump are together, and Trump, or let's say the
01:25:16Trump administration, doesn't necessarily have to be him personally, but
01:25:28this coalition keeps it together, but these technology giants,
01:25:31let's say oligarchs, are producing
01:25:36something, and they are not very optimistic about the
01:25:39consequences, although we will pay the price. They say
01:25:43the world is ending, so should they go to space?
01:25:47But because of them, material resources are
01:25:50quickly depleting. But they don't seem
01:25:53to have an ideology. It's like the far-right
01:25:56suits us, right? On one hand, they are
01:26:00buying media, there's a lot of power. Can you
01:26:03I might be rambling intuitively, but no,
01:26:07not at all, and I think you're very right.
01:26:11They don't have an ideology. We know this best from
01:26:14Peter, even though he's the person
01:26:17we talk about the least, because he truly
01:26:21his characteristics, who Peter is, what he likes,
01:26:25what he doesn't like, what kind of life he has,
01:26:28very much in the background. The only thought in the
01:26:32mind of someone who has supported all these people
01:26:35we mentioned financially or intellectually
01:26:38at one time or another is that freedom and
01:26:42democracy cannot coexist. Now, saying that freedom
01:26:45and democracy cannot coexist means for us, who were
01:26:48born into liberal democracy like you and
01:26:52me, and have seen its best years and now
01:26:56see how it's rolling downhill, the question
01:26:59is, with what will these freedoms coexist? For
01:27:03Peter, the answer to this question is
01:27:06with intelligent people like me, intelligent
01:27:09white people or whatever. So there's a certain
01:27:12supremacism, there's a certain supremacism, but the most
01:27:16important characteristic is intelligence. They won't
01:27:20succumb to their emotions. And yes, it's good
01:27:23if they're white, because all these people, as we've
01:27:27discussed before, have passed through South Africa
01:27:31one way or another. It's interesting. There's
01:27:34something that the apartheid regime in South Africa
01:27:36ingrained in the human psyche. Hmm,
01:27:40şimdi aşırı sağ dediğimiz şeyin aslında bir
01:27:43ideolojisi yok yani şöyle bir ideolojisi var daha doğrusu yerleşik
01:27:46düzene karşı ama yerleşik düzenin karşısın Tamam,
01:27:50yerleşik düzenini de sevmiyorsun, yerleşik düzeninin elitlerini de
01:27:53sevmiyorsun, ama seni en
01:27:56çok iyi seninle en çok
01:27:59iletişime geçen de yerleşik düzerinin elitleri, yani Ellen Musk,
01:28:02Jeff Bezos, Jay Devons, Trump,
01:28:05Trump var, çünkü Trump bile onlardan aşağıda, çünkü
01:28:08JDV mesela yerleşik düzen eğer bir poster
01:28:12evladı yaratmak isteseydi JDVens'i yaratırdı, Fakir bir yerden
01:28:15çıkıyor, da hukuk diploması alıyor,
01:28:19işte. eee yatırım bankacılığı yapıyor daha
01:28:22it's racial discrimination,
01:28:25a race... yes, but that racial discrimination
01:28:28is now a strange racial discrimination, it's
01:28:32not like the racial discrimination in the American
01:28:35South. It's truly believed that there's an Aryan
01:28:39human. Now, what we call the far right
01:28:43actually doesn't have an ideology, or rather, it has an
01:28:46ideology against the established order. But against
01:28:50the established order... Okay, you don't like the established
01:28:54order, you don't like the elites of the established
01:28:57order, but the elites of the established order
01:29:00are the ones who communicate with you the most,
01:29:04like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, J. D. Vance,
01:29:08Trump. Trump is there because even
01:29:11Trump is below them, because J. D. Vance,
01:29:15for example, if the established order wanted to create
01:29:18a poster child, it would create J. D. Vance.
01:29:22He comes from a poor background, gets a law
01:29:26degree, works in investment
01:29:28banking, what else could there be? What
01:29:32else can the established order offer a person
01:29:36who came out of the Appalachian Mountains? So
01:29:39while all this is happening, they don't have an ideology,
01:29:43but they know one thing: that all of
01:29:46them, including the Republicans, and I'm talking about
01:29:49real Republicanism, not where they are now,
01:29:52or if we talk about England, the Conservative
01:29:56Party, conservative liberals, liberals, left-liberals,
01:30:00and to some extent, socialists, are all against them.
01:30:03And the reasons for this alliance being against
01:30:07them are not the same, so this alliance cannot
01:30:10unite. But on this side, the far-right
01:30:14and far-left, which are against the alliance,
01:30:17meet at almost the same point. One of them
01:30:21meets in the means of production. There are
01:30:25no means of production there anyway. I mean,
01:30:29the means of production are ones and zeros.
01:30:32The other one meets in xenophobia,
01:30:36racism, sexism, and these
01:30:39are much easier and more homogeneous communities.
01:30:42Elon Musk, as an intelligent person,
01:30:45says, "I will go and support the AFD in Germany.
01:30:48Germany's political order may not collapse
01:30:52today, but it will be shaken. When it's shaken,
01:30:56this side will start approaching me to make
01:31:00a living. And I'll go to them a bit and
01:31:04start talking again, saying, 'Democracy is
01:31:07very important, we must all protect democracy,
01:31:10but we must also reduce the money the
01:31:13state spends, because the state spends too much
01:31:17money.'" But by doing all this, he's destroying
01:31:21all the institutions that he passed through.
01:31:24He must ensure that there are regulatory institutions
01:31:27so that no one stands in his way
01:31:31when he wants to run wild again. So
01:31:34there's no Henry Ford in the picture. For
01:31:38example, Henry Ford was someone who increased
01:31:41workers' wages while producing cars, because
01:31:45someone had to buy these cars, yes.
01:31:48But that's not the case for AI. For
01:31:52mythos, it doesn't matter whether you pay
01:31:55for clava or not, because those who will
01:31:58pay are universities, big think tanks.
01:32:03These are the people I'm interested in on
01:32:06average. They don't hire, I don't need
01:32:09to fight them. But we are excluding
01:32:13a very large segment of the public. Now,
01:32:17The Economist didn't attack Daron Acemoglu
01:32:20for nothing, because Daron Acemoglu,
01:32:23to an extent not expected from a Nobel-winning
01:32:26economist, suddenly started talking about
01:32:30class. He started
01:32:33saying that to save liberal democracy, we
01:32:36first need to end class warfare, that
01:32:39we are all in the same boat. However,
01:32:43as we just discussed, everyone here's thing
01:32:46is, "We are not in the same boat as you,
01:32:50we are not even in a boat, we got
01:32:54on a space rocket and we're going." This
01:32:57ship will probably sink, let's say
01:33:01that. Until it sinks, let's have a good time
01:33:05and make money from you. That's probably
01:33:08what Trump is doing, meaning I'm filling my
01:33:12pockets in the meantime. Trump's... Dion's last
01:33:16days, I'll have fun and fill my pockets. And he doesn't
01:33:19even have something like thinking long-term,
01:33:23because we all see it. I mean, this
01:33:27is no longer... I don't want to say anything
01:33:30about any president personally, but as
01:33:34political scientists,
01:33:37we're talking about someone who has the feeling
01:33:40of a 2-year-old child who doesn't want to give
01:33:44up something once he has it. So the American
01:33:48presidency was probably
01:34:16for on the internet. J. D. Vance would
01:34:19want to control what appears when people
01:34:23search for something on the internet.
01:34:26Trump doesn't have such a general
01:34:30principle. Trump is a merchant. Trump
01:34:33is a merchant, he says, "I'll look
01:34:37out for my money." J. D. Vance is
01:34:40also a merchant, but he's a merchant of ideas. And
01:34:44that's why I always
01:34:52say the same thing. If the next president
01:34:55of America after Trump is J. D. Vance,
01:34:59then the Democrats need to prepare themselves
01:35:02today for how they can act
01:35:06in that America. It won't happen,
01:35:09I tell you. Now, of course, it's
01:35:13coming out very little now, but everyone
01:35:17is watching closely. I think Daron Acemoglu
01:35:19probably wasn't unaware of the concept of class,
01:35:23but his need to say it now is
01:35:26also related to the spirit of the times,
01:35:30because yes, in New York, he mentions
01:35:34Memdani as a successful example. There are
01:35:37others in other parts of the world. Perhaps
01:35:41today in Berlin, there are also people
01:35:45who draw attention to these issues. They may
01:35:48be different from each other, we may not like
01:35:52all of them, but they are people who
01:35:55produce ideas and implement actions on
01:35:59the theme of living together. At least
01:36:02these are the people who are trying to
01:36:05keep some rules for what you called the
01:36:09lawless West. Now, there's someone trying
01:36:12to get into the Senate, Mısırlıet,
01:36:15I look at his words, it's very
01:36:18interesting. We share
01:36:21it with our viewers from time to time.
01:36:25Of course, it's not a fully established thing,
01:36:28it can't form an alliance as you
01:36:32said. But this has always been the
01:36:35case, even when there was a right-left
01:36:38distinction, the left when he was supposed
01:36:41to stay longer. Among these, of
01:36:45course, is President Erdoğan. Turkey is
01:36:48in fourth place, speeches start on
01:36:51Tuesday. Here, we know that when
01:36:54a journalist asked American Ambassador
01:36:57Thomas Barran at the 250th anniversary
01:37:01commemoration in Istanbul whether Erdoğan and
01:37:04Trump would meet bilaterally, he said,
01:37:08"They're good friends, it's possible." This
01:37:11doesn't mean that a meeting is scheduled
01:37:14or on the program. uhm, it seems he will
01:37:17attend this meeting, will Turkey be among them, we
01:37:21will see that too. Of course, Trump will
01:37:24discuss Iran war scenarios, because
01:37:27we know there is disappointment in Gulf countries. We
01:37:31constantly talk about America running out of ammunition.
01:37:34It is reported that Iran used cheap
01:37:38technology to transport and launch drones
01:37:41and missiles in this war.
01:37:43On the other hand. The first non-military
01:37:47company in America was included in ammunition production
01:37:50to speed it up. Such developments are happening.
01:37:53Of course, if Erdoğan and Trump meet, the
01:37:57promised NATO summit in Ankara after the CATSA sanctions
01:38:01have still not moved. These will come up again.
01:38:05Erdoğan last said that he was waiting for news from Al Jazeera
01:38:08and that he had promised it in Ankara. These processes continue like this.
01:38:12Therefore, many diplomatic meetings will take place.
01:38:16We should also remember that the biggest
01:38:19oil buyer, the Chinese President, is here
01:38:23during his visit. You must have talked about
01:38:26AI, I'm sure, AI regulations in America
01:38:29are calling for AI companies to be stopped
01:38:33because they shouldn't develop so fast, but the answer was
01:38:37that we would fall behind China. On the other hand,
01:38:40there are those who oppose the sale of F35s to
01:38:44Saudi Arabia because
01:38:47China can steal their technology more easily, both Republicans
01:38:50and Democrats. This week, Saudi Arabia's nuclear
01:38:54agreement was another point of contention in Washington.
01:38:58Republicans also oppose it. In this context,
01:39:01the Turkey and Mecca Agreement was mentioned. Wall Street Journal
01:39:05even said that Saudi Arabia was disappointed, that they
01:39:09didn't get what they expected from Pakistan and Turkey,
01:39:12even though this is a technical process. Will the parliament
01:39:15be skipped? What kind of formula will it be if it
01:39:19is skipped in Turkey? But there are also joint
01:39:23exercises, it's as if these big newspapers, big
01:39:26congressmen don't know them. They called on Turkey
01:39:30to destroy the Houthis and help Sudan. We have
01:39:34seen these too. What's interesting
01:39:37at the UN meetings is the Iranians.
01:39:40Of course, visas were given to Mahmoud Abbas,
01:39:44but on the other hand, visas were not given,
01:39:47they were banned. Let's also say this to the Iranians: they are forbidden to
01:39:51shop for luxury goods. Those who come with diplomatic
01:39:54visas, and even those who come to New York with
01:39:58tourist visas, have certain tax advantages in New York City.
01:40:01It was reported that they would be subject to
01:40:04these restrictions so that they don't buy expensive
01:40:08things and don't benefit from these privileges.
01:40:11The US Ambassador to the UN had some talks
01:40:14with the UAE and some consultants this week.
01:40:18The messages there were important. Looking at all
01:40:21these reflections, we see that the US is closely
01:40:25monitoring the tension between Saudi Arabia and
01:40:28the UAE, trying to unite them, and that it links
01:40:31the nuclear agreement to Saudi Arabia's
01:40:35adherence to the Abraham Accords. Let's remember
01:40:39that Mamdani had an important stance. He had said that
01:40:42if Netanyahu came, he wanted to have him arrested
01:40:45on the grounds of war crimes, but then realizing
01:40:48that he didn't have the authority to do this,
01:40:51he said he wouldn't even participate in protests.
01:40:54However, on Thursday, Mamdani appeared before
01:40:58the cameras with the head
01:41:01beklediklerini açıkladılar, eee fakat alınan önlemlere
01:41:05baktıkları zaman da aslında eee her zamanki
01:41:08BMGK önlemlerinden daha farklı olmadığını söylediler, tam
01:41:11konuşlanma her sene BMGK haftasında üst düzey haftada
01:41:15yapılıyor, yine bunun harekete geçirildiği eee trafik uçuş
01:41:18rotalarının da havaalanlarına yaya erişimine yönelik
01:41:22kısıtlamaların uygulanacağını
01:41:24eee biliyoruz, tabii eee asl olan Amerika ile Iran
01:41:28arasındaki çatışma sürerken İran
01:41:32liderinin şehirde olması eee tabii
01:41:35Netanyahu'yu tutuklama eee talebinden vazgeçti Mamdani
01:41:39da işte onun şehrinde öyle bir ziyaretin
01:41:42of the New York Police Department
01:41:55will also be in the streets.
01:41:57Opponents of Netanyahu will be in the streets chronically.
01:42:01They stated that they expect many protest
01:42:04waves, but when they looked at the measures taken,
01:42:08they said that they were not different from the
01:42:11usual UN Security Council measures. Full deployment
01:42:15takes place every year during the UN Security
01:42:19Council high-level week. We know that traffic
01:42:23flight routes and restrictions on pedestrian access
01:42:26to airports will be applied. Of course, the main
01:42:29thing is that the Iranian leader is in the city while the conflict
01:42:33between the US and Iran continues.
01:42:37Mamdani abandoned the request to arrest Netanyahu,
01:42:40and the fact that such a visit is taking place
01:42:44in his city is of course an interesting development.
01:42:47Thank you very much, Serra Karaçam. She will
01:42:51explain all the details on our screens throughout
01:42:54the week. Serra, it's very interesting,
01:42:59actually, I thought about it now.
01:43:02The Iranian president is given permission,
01:43:05Pezeshkian will attend as president, it should
01:43:09be like that, I mean, it's strange that they
01:43:13didn't do it for Palestine, but when the shopping
01:43:16ban came to my mind, didn't they torment the
01:43:20footballers a lot during the World Cup?
01:43:23So, tormenting them on the one hand and giving
01:43:27them visas on the other hand is completely...
01:43:30But it's already torment. There's also this thing,
01:43:34the soft power that's talked about a lot.
01:43:37It shows that I'm giving you the visa,
01:43:41but I'm also determining how you will spend
01:43:43a week or 10 days here. Sebra made a
01:43:46very correct statement about the UN Security
01:43:50Council's security measures, saying that they wouldn't
01:43:53be more than normal. This is a very important
01:43:58thing, by the way. Mamdani may not be
01:44:01able to do what he says, but it's always whatever
01:44:05it is. Therefore, for example,
01:44:08I would like to be there right now because I
01:44:12lived in New York for 8 years and I know what
01:44:15the security measures were like. Yes, a certain
01:44:18area is closed. Aren't curtains hung?
01:44:21Curtains are hung, and since vehicles will
01:44:25pass, there are traffic signs on the roads beforehand,
01:44:28saying you can't be here at this hour, move your
01:44:31car, etc. But if it's not going to be above
01:44:35average, then Mamdani should have said, "Yes,
01:44:38I can't arrest Netanyahu, but I won't allow you
01:44:41to be prevented from protesting as you wish."
01:44:45This is especially important, I think,
01:44:48on the 25th anniversary of 9/11, with the Muslim
01:44:51President being in New York, and with
01:44:54New York's history, I think it will be
01:44:57something that will be discussed more, especially
01:45:00in New York and in New York local journalism,
01:45:04even though I tend to link everything
01:45:07to political economy. We need to follow the money,
01:45:10and that's the important thing here. Now,
01:45:13all these seemingly incredible behaviors
01:45:17from Saudi Arabia always make people in
01:45:20America wonder what could have happened.
01:45:24I mean, these are just what kind of behaviors?
01:45:27The fact that America brokered the Mecca Agreement
01:45:31with Turkey and Pakistan and almost made them
01:45:34sit down together, the fact that Saudi
01:45:37Arabia has taken something into its circle,
01:45:40into its umbrella, using Turkey and Pakistan,
01:45:43and at the same time, the fact that they
01:45:46are buying F35s, because the thing America
01:45:49fears most is any of its technology reaching
01:45:53China, and it's expected that it will reach
01:45:57China from Saudi Arabia, much more easily than
01:46:00from any other US ally, including Turkey, Mexico,
01:46:04and Brazil. When asked how all this is happening,
01:46:07the answer again comes
01:46:17down to Trump and his family, because Jared
01:46:20Kushner, after Trump's first term,
01:46:24although he and his wife had said they
01:46:28didn't want to be at the forefront of politics
01:46:31again, yes, even though we don't see his
01:46:35wife with her father as constantly as before,
01:46:38Jared Kushner is constantly table with people,
01:46:42and it's claimed that the negotiations he makes
01:46:45at the bargaining table work, but we don't
01:46:49know what he gives in return. He's thought
01:46:53of as someone whose identity we don't
01:46:56know, but we do know.
01:47:00So, uhm, MBS, as he wants to be
01:47:03called, but Mohammed bin Salman,
01:47:07just as he didn't modernize when he made his name
01:47:10MBS, it is likely that Jared Kushner
01:47:14also gave him something financially in the F35
01:47:17purchase and in the umbrella agreement made
01:47:20with Turkey and Pakistan." It is thought that
01:47:23the price for this might be being paid,
01:47:26and this is widely discussed in America,
01:47:30because as you know, everywhere in the world,
01:47:33politicians are expected to reduce their other
01:47:37business relationships to zero the moment
01:47:40they enter politics, because you are sitting
01:47:44at that table, you have information that
01:47:48no one else has, that is, you have
01:47:52insider information in stock market terms, and..."
01:47:55He has an investment fund company, a private
01:47:58equity company, as they say. Saudi Arabia
01:48:02gave money to it, the United Arab Emirates
01:48:06gave money, and besides the United Arab Emirates,
01:48:10Qatar also gave money, and the only reason
01:48:13for this was that Qatar was under a
01:48:17heavy blockade by Saudi Arabia at the time.
01:48:20They used this to say, "I'm giving you
01:48:24this money through Jeff Kushner, and I'd
01:48:27be happy if you could get Saudi Arabia off
01:48:31my back." While all this money was being
01:48:34taken, Jared Kushner was not officially
01:48:38involved, so they were saying, "What kind
01:48:42of political weight would he have?" It's very
01:48:45clear that he will try. Similarly,
01:48:48with Russia, who they should be at
01:48:52loggerheads with right now because we are
01:48:56entering the fifth winter of the Ukraine
01:48:59war. As we enter the fifth winter,
01:49:03America is now telling Putin, "Look, if you
01:49:05end the war, if you let me end it, I'll
01:49:09make some commercial
01:49:12concessions to you." Of course, while making these commercial
01:49:16concessions, I will use the companies
01:49:18of my son, my son-in-law, or Steve's wife,
01:49:22or his cousin. Therefore, it's as
01:49:26if there's a world limited company, and
01:49:29we've put Trump at its head as CEO,
01:49:33and everyone in the C-suite, like the
01:49:37chief financial... All of them are from
01:49:40Trump and his family, or leaders he accepts
01:49:43as friends whom he loves. Then he removes
01:49:47them from office, what kind of movie
01:49:50was this he was making? Was it a
01:49:54company? I mean, Trump is not a movie,
01:49:57he's a reality show, yes, an apprentice.
01:50:01An apprentice, meaning Trump is a world
01:50:04CEO there. You explained it very well,
01:50:08that's why I liked it. He brings a leader
01:50:11to an important position there, then sends them
01:50:15away and so on. Then he sends them
01:50:18away, or of course, his real relatives.
01:50:21After taking Shavezi, he initially praised
01:50:25the lady he brought in, and then he
01:50:28didn't do anything.
01:55:39We support those politicians. Well,
01:55:42thank you very much, you've convinced me,
01:55:46dear viewers, we've come to the end
01:55:49of today's "Limitless". Soon, Sinem Fıstıkoğlu
01:55:53will bring you both Turkish and world news
01:55:56in the main news bulletin, including
01:55:59new developments that you haven't heard
01:56:02in Turkey for two
01:56:05hours. See you next week on
01:56:08"Limitless". Goodbye. "We eat the most
01:56:12expensive food, we use the most expensive
01:56:15phones, and we have to work a
01:56:19lifetime to buy a house or a car. We asked
01:56:23the people, why is everything the
01:56:26most expensive for us, from food
01:56:29to phones, from houses to cars?
01:56:32The reason is this: there is no
01:56:36production economy. All the investments
01:56:39made so far have been for consumption,
01:56:43not for production. They didn't open
01:56:46factories, they closed factories. Now,
01:56:49you can't prevent expensiveness without
01:56:52production. You're selling the bridge, you're
01:56:56increasing the price of diesel. For
01:57:00example, eggplants, peppers, tomatoes produced
01:57:04in Antalya are transported to Istanbul
01:57:07by trucks. In between, there are
01:57:11wholesalers who take their commission.
01:57:15Therefore, expensiveness also comes from
01:57:18there. As long as this economic
01:57:22system continues to operate like
01:57:25this, it's impossible for them to fix
01:57:28the economy. Now, there is expensiveness,
01:57:31of course. It's true that foreign
01:57:35capital and foreign brands have become
01:57:38very important in daily use, but
01:57:42maybe if we, as a country,
01:57:46protect our own values, if we
01:57:49produce our own phones and cars
01:57:53and use them, maybe we can overcome
01:57:56all of this. We haven't figured
01:58:00that out yet. Inflation is really
01:58:04rising a lot. Wages are very
01:58:07low. Childcare, then rent prices,
01:58:10I don't know, it's very complicated,
01:58:13we can't get out of it. The situation
01:58:17is not very good. I have nothing
01:58:20to say about the government, because
01:58:23whatever we say is useless. Honestly,
01:58:27it's because the country is not
01:58:30well managed. Right now, our country
01:58:34can really support
01:58:35not just 85 million
01:58:40people, but in my opinion, maybe
01:58:44180 million people.
01:58:45But why is it
01:58:54not managed? Because the managers
01:58:58are not good, they are putting
01:59:00this expensiveness on
01:59:11the people. It's really very difficult,
01:59:15it shouldn't be like this. We
01:59:35have children, what about us? Some
01:59:39go to school, we need money.
01:59:41We'll buy books and pens, how
01:59:44will we buy them without money?
01:59:48With my retirement pension, I barely
01:59:51pay rent. Besides that, how will
01:59:55I make ends meet with water,
01:59:58electricity, food, and drinks?
02:00:24Nothing will happen unless the AKP
02:00:26leaves. The AKP has to go.
02:00:29They desperately need to leave,
02:00:32because there's no money, they don't
02:00:35have any, and they've ruined the
02:00:38nation. It's a sin, a sin against
02:00:41these people. I've never seen
02:00:44anything like this, not during Debil's
02:00:47time, nor during Özal's time.
02:00:50Ecevit, well, they already took
02:00:53him away, nobody wanted Ecevit.
02:00:57Why? Because lives...