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00:00:01detailed information
00:00:02at vestel.com.
00:00:11Turkey's energy storage. Orbus.
00:00:28It's Sunday, September 20. You're on Halk TV. You're with us in Söz
00:00:32Sende. We'll be with you on these screens for 5 hours today, Sunday, September
00:00:3520. Of course, with our esteemed
00:00:40and I wrote a message guests, we will try to understand and
00:00:42make sense of this hot agenda.
00:00:46There are many important developments to discuss, and of course, it's also
00:00:49an evening where breaking news follows one another.
00:00:53Dear viewers, when we
00:00:56His house was raided. look at it, what has Turkey been talking about for a few days? The question
00:01:00on the agenda is whether the payment problems that started
00:01:04in the portfolio, followed by the CMB liquidating
00:01:07131 funds belonging to 7 portfolio
00:01:10companies after all these events, are turning into
00:01:14a huge, or even massive, crisis.
00:01:16More than 514,000 investors are now
00:01:20wondering what to do. So, did
00:01:23this fund crisis come with our eyes wide open? That's the question on everyone's mind.
00:01:27An statement made by the Minister of Treasury and Finance, Mr.
00:01:30Mehmet, 10 months ago, "We
00:01:33see manipulation," raises the question: Why
00:01:36was it waited for 10 months? How
00:01:39did the damage grow day by day,
00:01:42and where are we today? Who will cover this
00:01:46damage? Will it be reflected as a new
00:01:49burden on the citizens? We will discuss all these. And of course, there was a hot
00:01:52development of the day: a fund investigation was
00:01:56requested. There are other headlines as well, the political
00:02:00agenda is also hot, of course, for the citizens. We'll discuss everything with our
00:02:03esteemed guests. With your permission, I would like to introduce
00:02:07my guests first. Look who is in our studio this
00:02:10Sunday evening. Let's explain immediately. Good Party Aydın
00:02:13MP Süleyman Bülbül is with us. Welcome, Mr. Bülbül. Journalist
00:02:16Bahadır Özgür is our program partner. Today is very, very
00:02:19important. Bahadır Özgür has things to tell, especially with
00:02:23this fund crisis. Let's say hello to Bahadır Özgür, good evening. I turn
00:02:27to my right. Public opinion researcher and sociologist
00:02:31Sebih Tunç is with us. Welcome, welcome. And economist
00:02:35Ömer Rifat Gençal is with us. Welcome. Now, the agenda is hot,
00:02:38there are indeed very, very important developments.
00:02:41We will discuss all of them. In the
00:02:44meantime, the director shared with me the information that
00:02:47İyi Party Bursa MP Selçuk Türkoğlu is also
00:02:51ready via remote connection. Let's say hello immediately. Good evening, Mr. Türkoğlu,
00:02:54welcome. Hello, good evening, good broadcasts. Greetings
00:02:57from Ankara. Thank you. We send our love and
00:03:01greetings from Istanbul to Ankara. Now, let's start immediately. Actually,
00:03:04it was yesterday, or rather, Friday, when Özgür
00:03:08Özel, the new party leader Özgür Özel, made important
00:03:11statements in Bursa and said,
00:03:14regarding this crisis we are experiencing,
00:03:18"I will ask some names soon, let them be prepared."
00:03:22He said, "I will ask if you
00:03:25made a transaction, when you bought it, when you sold
00:03:28it." Therefore,
00:03:39we say fund crisis, but do you think this crisis
00:03:43we are experiencing has a name? What
00:03:46do you say? The name of this crisis is fraud, qualified
00:03:49fraud. As a lawyer, I am saying that public
00:03:52duty, public supervision, public
00:03:56oversight duties are pushed aside. I am setting aside
00:03:58the principles of presumption of innocence and right
00:04:02to be forgotten in criminal law, regardless of whether
00:04:06certain individuals are at the required
00:04:09level or not. It's clear and simple, Ms. Bilgi, look,
00:04:13on November 4, 2025, the Minister of Treasury of the Republic
00:04:17of Turkey says clearly and
00:04:19explicitly, he talks about manipulation and
00:04:23says this word: "We know that
00:04:27manipulations are being carried out through some funds. We are
00:04:30aware of the need for regulation in this
00:04:33area. You are aware, what did you do for 10 months,
00:04:37Mr. Şimşek? What did you do for 10 months? You say there will be a need
00:04:40for regulation, you talk about manipulations related
00:04:44to some funds. Who will make this regulation? The CMB
00:04:47will make this regulation according to Article 133
00:04:50of the Capital Markets Law and related articles. Who will
00:04:53do it? The BRSA has duties, there's MASAK, and in
00:04:56the law, in the Capital Markets Law, there are
00:04:59articles stating that the CMB will prepare reports
00:05:03like MASAK if necessary. So, here, the CMB, with
00:05:06a chairman, 7 members, and the managers
00:05:09they appoint, is authorized
00:05:12to regulate the capital markets and
00:05:16to prevent and supervise manipulations in the process.
00:05:20Now, the current chairman
00:05:23says, "I came
00:05:26in May." He says, "I was appointed
00:05:30in May." The current board chairman, Mahmut
00:05:34Sütçü, says that within this framework,
00:05:37"we made our interventions regarding this situation
00:05:41after August 28." There's a veiled accusation
00:05:45against the previous management. You say you came in May,
00:05:48but Mr. Mahmut Sütçü, weren't you the second
00:05:51chairman of the CMB before? Didn't you take part in the management?
00:05:55Now, this is important, this is important. It is clear
00:05:58that the CMB has neglected
00:06:01its duty, has not performed
00:06:04its duty. Since November 4, 2025,
00:06:07when the minister announced, there have been no
00:06:10measures to prevent
00:06:23What will be done today? We will discuss this today. I'm interrupting
00:06:25you now, but there's a hot development, a very, very important breaking
00:06:29news that my colleagues have brought to the screen. Let's explain its details a bit.
00:06:32We are talking about where the money is now, who will pay the damage, who will cover the damage,
00:06:36right? Look, dear viewers, this development is important.
00:06:39A new chapter in the fund crisis, now scandal after scandal.
00:06:43It has emerged that 15 million and 25 million
00:06:46euros were transferred to Swiss accounts.
00:06:49The investigation by the Istanbul Chief
00:06:53Public Prosecutor's Office continues. According to initial
00:06:56findings, 15 million dollars was transferred from
00:06:59the account of Serdar Turhan, Chairman of the Board of Pusula Holding,
00:07:03to an account in Switzerland. And from the account of Muhammed Yarız,
00:07:06Chairman of the Board of Pusula Portfolio Management Inc., 25
00:07:09million Euros
00:07:12were transferred to another account in Switzerland. This is very, very important.
00:07:16Did the money go to Switzerland, Bahadır Özgür? I mean, the initial estimates
00:07:20were already this. The initial finding has come out here. This is important
00:07:23because this is also the company where Katılım Evim
00:07:27is also located. Serdar Turhan,
00:07:30who is also a board member of Katılım Evim, is the first
00:07:34one to send to Switzerland. The other one was a 28-year-old AKP
00:07:37youth, someone from the Zeytinburnu district organization who
00:07:41made the Rabia sign 4 years ago, Muhammed Yarız. The fact that
00:07:45someone so young managed a fund that could be measured
00:07:48in billions of dollars was always a matter of discussion. The
00:07:52thing we always said was, if you go over the state,
00:07:55people will gain wealth. That's what tonight's topic is about,
00:07:59this became the first thing, the first evidence, let's say.
00:08:03Look, my friends have also brought the details to the screens.
00:08:07Dear viewers, you can click and read them on Halktv.com.
00:08:10We will share them as the details become available.
00:08:14There are things like jets that were acquired, they will come out.
00:08:17If they do, we'll discuss all of them. It is stated
00:08:20that private jets were acquired. We will discuss all these.
00:08:24Mr. Bülbül, I want to ask something. It is said
00:08:27that money transfers have been revealed. How do these money transfers
00:08:30happen? Don't they happen through the banking system? Shouldn't
00:08:34the BRSA immediately take action regarding these
00:08:37suspicious transfers? MASAK MASAK MASAK should act first,
00:08:41yes, MASAK should act first.
00:08:55It is an administrative and financial body, specifically a regulatory
00:08:59and supervisory public institution that ensures
00:09:02the safe, transparent, and honest functioning
00:09:06of capital markets in Turkey. A regulatory and supervisory
00:09:09public institution. What do we understand from this? That
00:09:13for 10 months after the Minister of Finance's statement,
00:09:16it did not perform its regulatory and supervisory duty. Who
00:09:20did not perform it? Of course, there is the management,
00:09:24there is the chairman, there are 7 members, and there
00:09:27are the people they appointed. But there are also political
00:09:31identities, political personalities they are affiliated
00:09:34with. So, as I said, I don't want to get into discussing
00:09:38names for the sake of innocence and the right to be forgotten.
00:09:41But what will happen? In this case, it means it did not
00:09:44perform its duty. Within this framework, to control,
00:09:47supervise, and audit the compliance of the transactions
00:09:50that capital markets institutions, publicly traded
00:09:53partnerships, stock exchanges, and self-regulatory
00:09:56organizations will carry out within the scope of capital
00:10:00markets legislation. This is its primary
00:10:03duty. Its second duty is to make decisions
00:10:06to ensure that the public is informed in a timely, adequate,
00:10:10and accurate manner, and to
00:10:25set the principles and procedures for new capital markets
00:10:28establishments, and to determine the principles and procedures
00:10:32for investment advice to investors and savers. Now, I'm
00:10:36interrupting you again. My colleagues are continuing
00:10:39to report breaking news one
00:10:42after another, dear viewers. In the meantime,
00:10:46journalist Dinçer Gökçe, a Halk
00:10:49TVTR writer, is also with us. There's a new development,
00:10:52let's look at that too. Within the scope of the investigation
00:10:56carried out by the Istanbul Chief Public Prosecutor's
00:10:59Office, businessman Nihat Kırmızı, who is the Chairman
00:11:02of the Board of Trustees of Istanbul Topkapı University and Doğa
00:11:05Sigorta, has been detained. It is stated that Kırmızı's procedures at the police station
00:11:09are continuing within the scope of the investigation. This
00:11:12is a very, very important investigation. An important
00:11:15detention. Now, Nihat Kırmızı is also an important
00:11:19player in the insurance sector. He also owns Doğa
00:11:23Sigorta. The reason for Nihat Kırmızı's involvement
00:11:26in this fund investigation is Topkapı University. Look,
00:11:30just a few days ago, a very interesting thing,
00:11:33just a few days ago, I looked, I also checked
00:11:36the system. Emre Tezmendi was the chairman of the Board
00:11:40of Trustees of Topkapı University. Emre Tezmendi is currently
00:11:43a person who has been detained. Now, when we look today,
00:11:47we see that Mihat Kırmızı is the Chairman of the Board
00:11:51of Trustees of Topkapı University. Also, the rector of this
00:11:55university, Emre Alkin, is
00:11:59under arrest. Also, Kerem Kerem Alkin is a
00:12:02dean at this university. Now, it was
00:12:05already known that there was a close
00:12:08relationship between Topkapı University and Tarasa.
00:12:11There was also a strong relationship. Therefore,
00:12:15Nihat Kırmızı has also been included in this
00:12:18investigation. Nihat Kırmızı is not a person who
00:12:21is actively involved in the markets,
00:12:25the fund market, the stock market. He is more known
00:12:28in the insurance sector, but as I said, the sole
00:12:31reason for his involvement in the fund investigation
00:12:34was Topkapı University. It should also be
00:12:37added that the
00:12:40amounts evaluated as transferred abroad are
00:12:43quite significant. That is, 15
00:12:46million dollars from Serdar Turan's account, and 25 million
00:12:50dollars from Muhammet Yarız's account. As is known,
00:12:53Muhammet Yarız was the first person arrested
00:12:57within the scope of this investigation. A travel ban
00:13:01was imposed on Muhammet Yarız's father, Celal Yarız. Serdar
00:13:03Turhan is also in custody.
00:13:06Indeed, very important developments are
00:13:10continuing to come one after another in this investigation. Okay, thank you very much.
00:13:14Nihat Kırmızı is one of those detained, and he is a very
00:13:18important name. Dinçer Gökçe is following the details
00:13:22regarding this and will share them with us. You can watch us on both Halk
00:13:34TV screens and halktv.com. We will follow and share.
00:13:38I'm interrupting you for the second time, Mr. Bülbül, but there are important,
00:13:41important statements. Yes, madam, there are close to 7 million
00:13:45investors in the stock market. Half of them, that is, 3.5 million,
00:13:49have made transactions below 10,000 and
00:13:5210,000 TL. Can
00:13:55you imagine? This is a collapse for small savers. This is
00:13:58a collapse for close to 3.5 million investors.
00:14:01It is fraud, qualified fraud. In this regard,
00:14:04the BRSA also has a feature. The BRSA
00:14:07is the official oversight institution for financial
00:14:11transactions in its law. Now, we will proceed from here.
00:14:14What will be done in response to these responsibilities?
00:14:18I look at the CMB Law, the Capital Markets Board Law.
00:14:22In this regard, there is responsibility
00:14:25for managers who neglect their duty of
00:14:28oversight and supervision and abuse their
00:14:32authority. Or for those
00:14:35appointed by the managers. It is drawn as follows:
00:14:39managers cannot be investigated without the minister's
00:14:42permission. Neither in general
00:14:45criminal investigation nor in legal investigation.
00:14:48Now, what is the minister waiting for? Such
00:14:51a clear and explicit action has taken
00:14:55place, and there are many instances of collapse
00:14:59affecting small savers. There are so many
00:15:02suspicious activities regarding the CMB's failure
00:15:06to perform its oversight duty. And 7
00:15:09fund companies and 131
00:15:13funds have committed an illegal
00:15:16act against the savings of millions
00:15:19of people. Why doesn't the minister initiate
00:15:23an investigation against a single manager? I'm looking at
00:15:26those who have been detained. I'm looking at those who
00:15:30have been referred for arrest. There are no managers. Why
00:15:34not? I mean, did they act on their own?
00:15:37Look, the law is clear. Without the minister's
00:15:41permission to investigate, the CMB
00:15:44managers cannot be investigated. Let's say the minister did
00:15:48not grant investigation permission. It goes to
00:15:52the Council of State with an objection. Let's say
00:15:55he did grant investigation permission. It goes to
00:15:58the Council of State with an objection. Why doesn't the minister
00:16:02Şimşek follow this procedure? What will happen if he
00:16:06doesn't? Well, in this framework,
00:16:09the issue will not be delved into deeply. Without
00:16:13the knowledge of the managers, without a connection with the CMB,
00:16:16again, I'm setting aside the principle of innocence and the right to be forgotten,
00:16:20these things cannot happen. Why haven't the CMB managers
00:16:23fulfilled their oversight duty? Why haven't they fulfilled
00:16:27their duty of care? Why haven't the board
00:16:29managers, who derive their authority from the Capital
00:16:32Markets Law, fulfilled their supervisory duty?
00:16:36This, in general legal terms, constitutes the crime of
00:16:39negligence and abuse of duty according to
00:16:42Article 257 of the Turkish Criminal Code. And besides
00:16:46this, it creates a debt of compensation.
00:16:49That is, if there is unjust enrichment, if they have
00:16:52opened the way for unjust enrichment for someone,
00:16:56this is also a crime, a crime that creates liability
00:17:00for compensation in legal terms. Why is the minister
00:17:03silent? Why doesn't the minister push the button against
00:17:11this unjust enrichment of the citizens' small savings?
00:17:15Well, now I'll briefly ask Mr. Türkoğlu, and then
00:17:19Bahadır Özgür will also have something to say.
00:17:23Ömer Rıfat Gençal will explain what we are actually experiencing.
00:17:26But Mr. Türkoğlu, as a lawyer and
00:17:30a deputy, the questions Mr. Bülbül asked are
00:17:33important. Of course, we have many questions. For
00:17:38example, why is the minister silent? Are there those
00:17:42who are negligent in this scandal? If so, will they
00:17:45ever be held accountable? And will the investigation go
00:17:48into the depths, as Mr. Bülbül stated? What
00:17:52do you say? How do you read the picture?
00:17:55We read that it cannot be delved into, and I will
00:17:59say at the beginning what I would say at the end.
00:18:02Just as the political wing of FETÖ was never
00:18:06investigated, the political wings of such manipulations,
00:18:09speculations, such huge swindles
00:18:13are never investigated.
00:18:16But everyone knows, it's an open secret,
00:18:20that such a brazen
00:18:23manipulation cannot
00:18:26be carried out without a political
00:18:30wing and support.
00:18:33Such enormous gains
00:18:37cannot be obtained. It's very simple.
00:18:41We're talking about a size of
00:18:45830 billion, 900 billion,
00:18:48which means 20 billion
00:18:51dollars. We're talking about
00:18:54increases of one in a thousand, one in
00:18:57two thousand, sir. Their
00:19:01records are clear. Who
00:19:04gained the most? This manipulation
00:19:08benefited whom the most?
00:19:11Who took the largest amounts?
00:19:13You need to open and look,
00:19:17and that's how you should find
00:19:20their political connections. Exactly 131
00:19:23funds, hundreds of thousands
00:19:26of investors, and a known size
00:19:29of around 9 billion on paper.
00:19:32For example, I agree
00:19:35with everything Mr. Bülbül said. He is
00:19:38right. I would like to convey
00:19:42a few different aspects so that
00:19:45it doesn't repeat. For God's sake,
00:19:48we're talking about a food company. This food
00:19:52company is mainly about
00:19:55milk. You add it up, it doesn't
00:19:59even have 50 milking cows. But you
00:20:02see, it has gained more value in terms of
00:20:05shares than Turkey's massive food
00:20:09companies of 50-60 years. How
00:20:11does this happen? Who listed these on
00:20:15the stock market? Do they have a barn? Is there production
00:20:19there? Who opened these to the stock
00:20:22market? Who signed for these? Now
00:20:25look, incompetence is a separate
00:20:29disaster. But this alone
00:20:32cannot be explained by incompetence.
00:20:35This is, as Mr. Bülbül said,
00:20:39qualified fraud,
00:20:42and it has several aspects.
00:20:45Sir, we are living in a period
00:20:48where people who don't know how to read
00:20:51a balance sheet, who have no idea about company valuation,
00:20:55are managers in the CMB.
00:20:58Otherwise, who would turn a blind eye
00:21:01to these, and who would say
00:21:05okay to these? Now, as
00:21:08it was just said,
00:21:10in November 2025,
00:21:14in December, the Minister officially
00:21:17warned about manipulation regarding these investment
00:21:20funds. Those who know and follow
00:21:23will know that a month after
00:21:26this, an inspector was appointed to the CMB.
00:21:30Do you know how long they could serve?
00:21:33Not even a month. They sent that
00:21:35inspector away again, in the sense
00:21:38of "who are you to appoint
00:21:41an inspector to us?" This means there is another
00:21:45political power here, there are other political
00:21:49operations here. For example, this question also needs to be
00:21:52asked. Besides what is known,
00:21:55there is one of the authorized institutions
00:21:59for holding and securing funds, MKK,
00:22:02which is the Central Registry Institution.
00:22:05Who is one of the managers
00:22:08of this institution? Emre Tezmendi. Yes.
00:22:11So, this is a bit like,
00:22:15in conclusion, isn't it entrusting
00:22:18the lamb to the wolf? The sentence
00:22:22is this: It is seizing
00:22:25the money of the
00:22:27average citizen, the middle-income investor
00:22:31who tries to protect the value of their
00:22:34money, or who is in the stock market
00:22:38to earn a few pennies, who trusts
00:22:42the state. It's seizing
00:22:44their property. It's turned into this:
00:22:48the country's retirees are destitute,
00:22:52the working class is below the hunger
00:22:55line, those with fixed incomes
00:22:59are dependent on bread. So, if there
00:23:03was a middle-income citizen with
00:23:06some capital, they are also shaken
00:23:10out of it with such speculations in the
00:23:13stock market. Can such a country and such
00:23:15an economy management exist, for God's
00:23:18have many more topics to discuss. one last thing.
00:23:22In a country where such a manipulation,
00:23:25such a fraud, if you will, is carried out,
00:23:29for God's sake, shouldn't the minister responsible
00:23:33for the economy resign, and shouldn't there be
00:23:36many more arrests and detentions regarding
00:23:40all the crimes? What are
00:23:43they waiting for? Let me start like
00:23:46this, then I'll continue. What are they waiting
00:23:50for? That's the question. Now, of course, Mr. Türkoğlu
00:23:53also stated that there are those who have multiplied
00:23:57their money by 100, even 10,000, but
00:24:01on the other hand, small investors, well, Bahadır
00:24:04Özgür received many messages today, and so did we.
00:24:08Perhaps people who invested
00:24:11to make ends meet to pay their rent
00:24:14at the beginning of the month, students, minimum wage earners,
00:24:17many people
00:24:31There are those who add money, and there are those whose identity
00:24:34we don't know, for example, the mysterious 12 people.
00:24:38Who are they? Will we be able to find out? We'll
00:24:41discuss all of them, but first, with your permission,
00:24:44we want to bring the striking past of this Terra
00:24:48board of directors to your screens, because
00:24:52journalist Bahadır has been following
00:24:55and sharing this for years. In fact, Bahadır Özgür's
00:24:59social media posts from years ago have become
00:25:02relevant again today and have been widely discussed.
00:25:05Let's explain where it came from, how we
00:25:08got to this point, and then get the evaluations.
00:25:12Bahadır Özgür, we'll get to it immediately.
00:25:15First of all, we need to call it by its right
00:25:19name. Mr. Ömer will explain it already. I
00:25:22should also say that one of the first
00:25:25people to say this in Turkey is Mr. Ömer
00:25:29and Kerim Rota, not because
00:25:32he is here. I know this
00:25:36so well because I followed them.
00:25:39Firstly, this. Secondly,
00:25:42Ömer Hodja But everyone is very
00:25:46curious about its political and bureaucratic connections. That's one. The second
00:26:09is a share of around in the whole, and Oğuz
00:26:12Tezmen is the honorary chairman. Oğuz Tezmen, a former Minister of Transport,
00:26:16who served as General Manager of the National Lottery, is someone who has been in bureaucracy.
00:26:20But do you know how he remained in our memory? Now
00:26:23it's forgotten. Look at this clipping from 1997.
00:26:26Former Minister of Transport Oğuz Tezmen was found to have committed corruption
00:26:30in Turkish Telekom and Postal Administration
00:26:32tenders for 300 trillion liras and was tried for it.
00:26:36This is a news story from 1997. This was a corruption scandal
00:26:39that marked the 90s. Those who are young now may not remember it, but it left
00:26:43its mark. When I started journalism, it was a trial that lasted
00:26:46a few years. All the files were closed because of coalition governments,
00:26:50but I will show you something more important.
00:26:54For example, this news story by Göker Tayıncıoğlu.
00:26:56What is he accused of? He is accused of
00:27:00corruption in the tenders of the Postal Administration. There are so many things.
00:27:04Even in the poles bought by Telekom, corruption was committed. He was tried for it,
00:27:08and this person eventually became an investment
00:27:11company. People asked where the money went when these things
00:27:14were done.
00:27:16And the state inspectors issued a report
00:27:20stating that the assets were hidden abroad. What does the report
00:27:24say? Viewers cannot read it here, but I am
00:27:27telling you that Oğuz Tezmen took all his
00:27:30assets to Belgium. He registered them in the name of his son,
00:27:34Emre Tezmen, who was a student in Belgium.
00:27:36Look, this is from 1997. Now let's move on from this.
00:27:40There is no need to ask who these people
00:27:42are. You let such a well-known
00:27:46person do these things on the stock exchange. Let's go back.
00:27:49Emre Tezmen is a Belgian citizen. The chairman of the board
00:27:52is a Belgian citizen. He studied in Belgium. He has a company
00:27:55in Luxembourg that we believe is related to him.
00:27:58At the same time, Tre Yatırım has three real estate
00:28:02companies in Germany. The father and son have a finance
00:28:06company in England. They also have a company in Dubai.
00:28:09Now, if I may interrupt here, I'd like to say something that we will share
00:28:13shortly. Emre Tezmen had made a statement about all these scandals,
00:28:17and there was a local and national financial system issue in it. We will bring that to the screens
00:28:20first. The company founded in London, the father and son's
00:28:24companies in London, when compared to 2025
00:28:26and 2026, their financial assets
00:28:30increased by 8 times in the first 6 months. Now, MASAK is investigating.
00:28:34Will they reveal if there is traffic here? There is
00:28:37also Kerem Alkin here, a name we know well.
00:28:40Alkin, the children of Erdoğan Alkin, Kerem Alkin and Emre Alkin
00:28:44know them. But Kerem Alkin has a special feature that
00:28:48we shouldn't forget. A scandal broke out where
00:28:51emails written to Berat Albayrak were revealed.
00:28:55Kerem Alkin wrote the most emails there, expressing
00:28:58constant loyalty and requesting
00:29:03various tasks. Later, Kerem Alkin was appointed Permanent Ambassador to the OECD,
00:29:06and then this person was appointed to the board of directors
00:29:10of the Wealth Fund and Halk Bank. So, his role in Tera
00:29:13is important, and he has the position
00:29:17to understand all these events. Let me mention one more name,
00:29:20Abdülkadir Özkahan. He entered our lives
00:29:23on March 19. Few people knew him.
00:29:26On March 19, he called on young people
00:29:30to boycott Espresso.
00:29:33The boycott started. He tweeted at that time,
00:29:37"traitors to the homeland." This person
00:29:40owns the company that brings all the foreign
00:29:43big groups that organize concerts
00:29:46in Turkey, because they monopolized that area. He owns it,
00:29:49but he was also the press consultant for the Presidency of Religious Affairs,
00:29:53and he also served as a prime minister's
00:29:56consultant. So, the political and bureaucratic
00:29:59relations of Tera Yatırım deserve to be questioned.
00:30:02People ask, "How was this allowed? How was it not pursued?"
00:30:05And let's say this, most people who wrote about these things
00:30:09were detained and tried. I also have a lawsuit,
00:30:13for example, with Tera because I made a few allusions,
00:30:16because we tweeted about how the fund was growing so much.
00:30:20This was a fund that had legal protection,
00:30:23I think this is very important. It had a legal protection shield.
00:30:27Why did this happen? These relationships need to be investigated.
00:30:31So, Bahadır Özgür says it deserves to be discussed
00:30:34and investigated. Will we go there
00:30:37to the end, I wonder? Just now, my esteemed guests,
00:30:41our viewers, let me give you this last piece of information. We've covered it a lot, but
00:30:45again, where did we actually come across the name of Tera Yatırım
00:30:48before it went public, do you know?
00:30:51It was in the investigation of the Bakırköy Chief Public Prosecutor's Office in 2021.
00:30:55There was Kasım Garipoğlu, who fled after the drug operation,
00:30:59accused of money laundering. In a case he was involved in,
00:31:03people tried in that case were bringing money
00:31:06in bags to Tera,
00:31:10and it was being sent to a company in Malaysia.
00:31:14There was an investigation based on the claim that money was being laundered
00:31:17through Germany and London. It was never concluded.
00:31:20At that time, it was asked, "How did you give permission
00:31:23to a company that was accused of money laundering
00:31:26in a public prosecutor's investigation to establish an investment bank?"
00:31:30This question was asked a lot. Ramazan Başak, who asked this question,
00:31:33was detained. Those who ask this are also being tried.
00:31:37My lawsuit is also related to this. So, I think the political
00:31:40and bureaucratic protection in Tera needs to be investigated.
00:31:44Well, this is very, very important. Will it be investigated?
00:31:48Bahadır Özgür will tell us, dear viewers, in the upcoming minutes.
00:31:50On the one hand, Ramazan Başak, the former
00:31:54head of MASAK, Bahadır Özgür reminded us of him.
00:31:58So, many people actually had warnings about all these things,
00:32:01but why was it waited for? That's the question. Even
00:32:04Bahadır Özgür stated that Ramazan Başak was detained.
00:32:08I know him. We talked at that time.
00:32:11The issue he mentioned is not a comment.
00:32:14It's about the Bakırköy investigation in 2021.
00:32:16He asks what happened to it. He says his name is mentioned here,
00:32:20what did you do, what was the result?
00:32:24The one asking this is not just anyone. He is someone
00:32:28who managed MASAK. That's why he was detained.
00:32:31Now, as Bahadır Özgür just stated, if we are going to talk about
00:32:35this scandal in Turkey, Ömer Rifat Gençal is one of
00:32:38the two most important people we can talk to.
00:32:41Let's send our greetings to him from here. We will, of course,
00:32:45go into detail, Mr. Gençal, but where are we
00:32:49now? Did this happen right before our eyes?
00:32:52Were all warnings ignored? What happened? Let me jump in.
00:32:56Can you name what we are experiencing? How do you see it?
00:33:00If you could explain that too. Is it a fund scandal or a Ponzi scandal?
00:33:03Because now the water is being muddied, isn't it? It's like, if we need to give it a name,
00:33:06it's an erosion of trust, the disappearance of trust.
00:33:10We can say it's the disappearance of trust.
00:33:13From where did trust disappear? Actually,
00:33:16we can say it's the disappearance of trust from all state institutions,
00:33:19from all institutions. So, it's not
00:33:22just a fraud, although its scale is huge,
00:33:25but I'll start by saying
00:33:29I'm actually very sad. Why am I very sad?
00:33:33Because the 511,000
00:33:37investors
00:33:39mentioned here,
00:33:42especially those who entered recently, suffered
00:33:46serious losses. Among them are close friends
00:33:49of mine, and among them are people who hold
00:33:52senior executive positions. On the one hand, I'm happy,
00:33:55because unfortunately, no lesson is free. Let's say
00:33:59they started to learn, not learned, but started to learn.
00:34:02Professor, we always learn by being exploited.
00:34:05Now, Mr. Selçuk is very right,
00:34:09very right. I will go back further than 2021,
00:34:12I will go back to 2016. In 2016,
00:34:15what I'm about to say is not political.
00:34:19Why is it not political? I am speaking
00:34:23from the perspective of an economist and a financial advisor.
00:34:26A financier, especially when looking
00:34:29at certain magnitudes, first considers
00:34:33who the policymakers related to those magnitudes
00:34:35are. They look at the institutions
00:34:39that those policymakers touch,
00:34:42the institutions they are responsible for and control.
00:34:45Why will I go back to 2016? Mr. Şimşek, as you know,
00:34:49was the Deputy Prime Minister responsible for the economy in 2016.
00:34:52If you remember that period, neither the CMB,
00:34:56nor the BRSA, nor any institution
00:34:59under his command was taking action
00:35:02regarding the instructions he gave. There was inertia there,
00:35:06thinking that the 2018 elections would come and the administration
00:35:10would change, the economic administration would change. So, the bureaucratic
00:35:12sector, I think, was not listening to Mr. Şimşek
00:35:15at that time. I saw this in the figures,
00:35:19in the budget figures, in the stock market figures,
00:35:22and in other BRSA figures.
00:35:26Anyway, the 2018 process came. I will come to
00:35:29what Mr. Selçuk said. Especially starting
00:35:33from 2019, we started to pursue
00:35:36experimental, ultra
00:35:40low-interest, experimental monetary policy
00:35:42by lowering interest rates,
00:35:45and at the same time suppressing the exchange rate,
00:35:48and thus, by lowering both the exchange rate
00:35:52and interest rates, trying to alienate people
00:35:55from the concept of interest in some way,
00:35:58and providing resources to companies,
00:36:02especially through capital market
00:36:04public offerings. This is not a bad thing,
00:36:08but you do this in systems
00:36:10that are truly competent, skilled,
00:36:14and have balance and control mechanisms.
00:36:17We started to see companies being publicly offered
00:36:21with just a desk and a chair,
00:36:25and there were already incredible manipulations
00:36:28in those public offerings. Now, the CMB
00:36:32should have intervened at that time.
00:36:35Since the CMB did not intervene at that time, some people
00:36:38were getting rich in public offerings,
00:36:41some were becoming ultra-rich and continuing their way,
00:36:45reaching today. Of course, the question
00:36:48of why it didn't intervene comes to mind. Is there
00:36:52a dereliction of duty here, or was a political barrier
00:36:55created? This question also comes to mind.
00:36:59The answer to this question is not with me. That's why
00:37:03as soon as this fund incident broke out, I started
00:37:06saying on television programs that this issue
00:37:09goes beyond the CMB, this issue goes beyond the BRSA,
00:37:13this issue goes beyond other institutions. The most authorized
00:37:16body in this matter
00:37:19is the public prosecutor's office. It is an independent judiciary.
00:37:23The independent judiciary needs to intervene
00:37:25here and
00:37:28determine who is in what kind of relationship with whom,
00:37:31what kind of money transactions are happening between whom,
00:37:34which fund it is in, who entered which fund and how much,
00:37:38when they exited. Some things need to be done
00:37:41regarding these, and this matter needs
00:37:45to be made transparent. Now, I'm getting a lot of questions
00:37:48about funds, what will happen to our money,
00:37:52how will it work? A program was announced,
00:37:55a liquidation program was announced. We will talk about it in detail
00:37:58a little later. I think that before
00:38:02this liquidation program was put forward
00:38:06as a plan on how it would be done,
00:38:10with a much more radical solution,
00:38:13especially due to the manipulations in some funds,
00:38:17enriched people should be dealt with by taking examples
00:38:20from abroad. Madoff, as you know,
00:38:23finished his life in prison. He received 150 years in prison,
00:38:28150 years. So, things like being banned
00:38:31from the stock exchange for two years or being suspended for a month
00:38:35are not enough for this kind of manipulation.
00:38:38The amount in question is over 20 billion
00:38:41dollars. The damages are not yet clear.
00:38:45Will it be 10 billion? On top of that,
00:38:48this damage, as far as I can see,
00:38:51can be a numerical base, but today you can see
00:38:55Turkey's CDS at perhaps 220, 230.
00:38:59However, reputational risk,
00:39:02as we call it, is not a risk
00:39:06that can be measured by anything.
00:39:10Here, such things constantly emerge,
00:39:13and we will face extra risks
00:39:16and costs imposed by foreign investors.
00:39:20We will see what the cost of that will be
00:39:22in the coming days. Yes, let me interrupt here
00:39:26and go to Professor Semi, because I haven't been able to
00:39:29since the program started. Let's ask Professor Semi
00:39:32for a sociological evaluation of the latest developments,
00:39:36because while some are gaining, while some are adding to their wealth,
00:39:39adding to their fortunes, why does the citizen
00:39:42always have to pay the price?
00:39:46Again, the small investor paid the price.
00:39:50Unfortunately, we also have to become fund literate
00:39:53regarding the technical aspects of this matter, our expert guests explain, but there is
00:39:58a sociological dimension to it, of course. This is part of a whole.
00:40:01If you remember, last week on the program,
00:40:04we tried to express deep poverty in Turkey.
00:40:08I tried to explain that 75% are in deep poverty,
00:40:11but another problem emerged. I said deep wealth,
00:40:15extreme wealth, extreme riches. Imagine,
00:40:18while people cannot afford basic necessities,
00:40:21the children of privileged families are swimming in money,
00:40:24getting rich for no reason, and they don't even hesitate
00:40:27to display this, to put it out there in any way.
00:40:30There is a huge problem in terms of income inequality.
00:40:34This is what I always describe, the situation
00:40:37we live in, and I insist on calling it
00:40:40social anomaly. I define it as social
00:40:43abnormalization in almost every field, and I always try to say
00:40:47that this anomaly will have consequences.
00:40:50We don't know what will come out of it, but it will be a surprise.
00:40:54We always talk about how
00:40:57one day, the most important thing is
00:41:00that it creates distrust in the individual,
00:41:02not trusting the system, not trusting anything,
00:41:06and then alienation and seeking
00:41:10a way out of this. How does it find this way out?
00:41:13How do I get rich quickly? Because it sees examples,
00:41:17how do I turn the corner? That's why illegal betting,
00:41:20fraud, and these criminal gangs are actually,
00:41:24in the end, a technical problem, perhaps.
00:41:28Inflation, a result that needs to be explained economically,
00:41:31which we have failed to reduce for years in Turkey,
00:41:34has become chronic, causing the new generation
00:41:37to lose their future and feel anxious about it.
00:41:40I will not evaluate this sociologically, but when I look at it,
00:41:43I see the ambition of young people to get rich quickly,
00:41:46thinking, "In my short life, I want to see better days,"
00:41:50and earning money quickly from somewhere.
00:41:53Of course, inflation is said to be the greatest immorality,
00:41:57which is true, but that trust issue...
00:42:01Look, citizens want to trust healthcare institutions,
00:42:04but they encounter a baby trafficking
00:42:08gang. We say let's trust
00:42:11tourism facilities, but we encounter
00:42:14the Kartalkaya fire, mining murders.
00:42:17Look, in the Kartalkaya fire you mentioned, did those with political responsibility
00:42:20account for it? Of course, that's the problem, they didn't.
00:42:24They weren't giving it. Actually, that distrust...
00:42:28The lawsuit has not been filed yet. I apologize for interrupting you,
00:42:30but the Council of State had given permission for investigation
00:42:34against the executives, but the minister had not given
00:42:37permission for investigation. The Council of State had given it.
00:42:41The lawsuit has still not been filed. It has not been filed yet.
00:42:44So, regarding transportation, consider ship accidents, train
00:42:48accidents. There are so many examples. Citizens want to trust
00:42:52the local authorities, don't they? We all saw what happened
00:42:55in the Gülistan Doku murder. Economically,
00:42:59this is actually part of a whole, meaning what is being talked about is this.
00:43:02Like the novel "Chronicle of a Death Foretold," everyone knew everything.
00:43:06There was a statement made a year ago, and then there are constant warnings
00:43:10from economists. This is from November 11,
00:43:132025. Dear Kerim, the program we did
00:43:16with Rota. The date of that is, let me say it again,
00:43:19November 11, 2025. In the Economy program, it was openly
00:43:23stated how this was done,
00:43:26and we said that Mr. Şimşek knew on November 4, 2025,
00:43:29that manipulation was being done in these funds.
00:43:33In fact, we were going to say this much earlier,
00:43:36but due to Kerim and me having
00:43:39work abroad, or rather,
00:43:42my daughter being abroad
00:43:45and me going there, and Kerim being on holiday
00:43:48abroad, we couldn't talk about it earlier, but we already
00:43:52knew these things were happening, and Üstün Öztürk, in that program,
00:43:56you are talking about trust in institutions.
00:44:00If they watch not just the first 10 minutes
00:44:02of that program, but the whole thing, in that program,
00:44:06the vice president of the BRSA had a
00:44:10gifting ceremony, and afterwards,
00:44:13Mr. Şimşek announced that they had launched
00:44:16an investigation into this. We are still asking
00:44:20why it hasn't been concluded since 2024.
00:44:23Today is 2026. Yes, look,
00:44:26we forget. The gifting ceremony.
00:44:29Now I can visualize it in my mind. There was a queue, wasn't there,
00:44:32for the gifting ceremony of a bank's general manager.
00:44:36I am not saying these things in a personal sense.
00:44:40These are the bricks that form institutions,
00:44:43that form the integrity of rules, and are essential
00:44:46for building trust in society.
00:44:50If you pull these bricks out one by one,
00:44:52unfortunately, the castles built from them will collapse
00:44:55one after another tomorrow or the day after. Society...
00:44:59I'm getting this reaction. I'm very sorry,
00:45:03I interrupted you, but I'm getting this reaction:
00:45:05"I invested in a money market fund, and they say its
00:45:08risk profile is 1 or 2." 1 or 2 means that
00:45:121 is the lowest, 5 or 7 is the highest
00:45:15risk profile. They said it was 1 and 2.
00:45:19Now, even though I invested in a money market fund,
00:45:22I cannot liquidate my fund here and pay my natural gas bill.
00:45:26I cannot pay my child's
00:45:29school tuition. I cannot pay the rent
00:45:33of my house. Who am I going to trust, for God's sake?
00:45:36I trusted the state, I did this.
00:45:40I trusted the CMB, I entered here.
00:45:44What am I going to do?" There are people asking this.
00:45:47The main problem is here, that is, institutions and rule-based
00:45:50management and merit. We have been saying this for years,
00:45:54for years.
00:45:56Let me summarize. We always talk about
00:46:00trust in justice and the judiciary. The consequences of this are
00:46:04very dire. People's mental health
00:46:06is deteriorating. I always give examples
00:46:10of how much antidepressant use has increased, how much anxiety
00:46:14diagnoses and panic disorders have increased. This turns into a lack of expectations
00:46:18from the future, a distrust, and ultimately
00:46:21alienation. It's not pulling out a tile,
00:46:25the structure is collapsing. I don't mean to be a doomsayer,
00:46:28but believe me, we couldn't have predicted
00:46:31a week ago that we would be discussing this today.
00:46:35We cannot predict what outcome we will face
00:46:39in these studios a week from now. That's what's truly frightening.
00:46:43Uncertainty about the future and this lack of trust
00:46:45regarding these institutions. Trust, in the end,
00:46:49cannot be fully restored with a single thing. Economists say
00:46:52it should be fixed this way or that way, but believe me, this is not something
00:46:56that can be solved with palliative solutions or by fixing one area.
00:46:59This is a much deeper issue. Just now, Professor Semih
00:47:03said, Mr. Turan said, as in the novel "Chronicle of a Death Foretold,"
00:47:06everyone knew everything. In fact, the statement
00:47:10made by the Minister of Treasury and Finance, Mehmet Şimşek,
00:47:13that manipulation statement, raises the question
00:47:17of why it was waited for for 10 months.
00:47:20Just now, Mr. Gençal also reminded us of Mehmet Şimşek's statement.
00:47:23The date is November 4, 2025, dear viewers.
00:47:27November 4, 2025. Where is he speaking? At the 9th
00:47:30Turkey Capital Markets Congress. Who?
00:47:34Minister of Treasury and Finance Mehmet Şimşek. And what does he say on that date?
00:47:37"We know that manipulations are being carried out through
00:47:41some funds. We are aware of the need for regulation
00:47:43in this area. We will increase the intensity of the fight
00:47:47against manipulation beyond the intensity of the fight against the informal economy.
00:47:50Making the penalties much heavier is also an issue
00:47:54on our agenda," says the Minister of Treasury and Finance.
00:47:56Let me say it again, he made this statement at the
00:48:00Turkey Capital Markets Congress on November 4, 2025.
00:48:03Now, economy writer Murat Muratoğlu says that in September 2026,
00:48:07the total assets in this fund were 822 billion
00:48:11liras. Should we say assets? Mr. Gençal, the correct term is the financial value
00:48:15of assets. The financial value of assets
00:48:18at that time was 822 billion. He wrote the opposite. When we reached September 2026,
00:48:28it had reached 822 billion liras.
00:48:30If we look at the increase,
00:48:32it's 525 billion liras. So, whose money is this?
00:48:36It's the small investor's money, isn't it, Mr. Bülbül? Yes. The question
00:48:40of why this increase was allowed is on the agenda.
00:48:44Let's not forget one thing. This has grown steadily,
00:48:47but there are also those who left, increasing
00:48:51their profits, their wealth. For example, a month ago,
00:48:55there was about 60 billion, 80 billion liras withdrawn from Pusula.
00:48:58There is money going to Switzerland, of course. So, let's not forget
00:49:02that there is a constant cycle there. Let's not forget.
00:49:05The Minister of Treasury and Finance, Mehmet Şimşek, let me tell you,
00:49:08it went from 297 billion to 822 billion.
00:49:10But how did it happen? Of course, how did it happen?
00:49:14How did it happen?
00:49:16One.
00:49:19When we realized this and intervened, hmm.
00:49:22why did we intervene that day?
00:49:26Look, there is a company called MSCI, Morgan Stanley,
00:49:30that is, these
00:49:32especially provide
00:49:35index services to foreign
00:49:39investors coming to Turkey. What I mean by index service
00:49:43is this: it says there is the Borsa
00:49:46Istanbul index in Turkey, and there are companies
00:49:49in the papers within this Borsa Istanbul index. "Regarding the
00:49:53buying and selling of these companies,
00:49:56this index is correct, according to this, the index
00:50:00I have constructed will consist of these
00:50:03weights and will have a certain
00:50:07weight, a certain amount of something, according
00:50:10to this, you can come here and invest
00:50:14by saying emerging market index. Now, MSCI
00:50:18had a very important warning for Turkey, I will come to that now.
00:50:21MSCI actually started with the warning
00:50:24it made, it said that
00:50:2729 of the 30
00:50:30indexes of IMKB or Borsa Istanbul are fine, but there is one
00:50:34company that everyone knows now,
00:50:37Destek Factoring. This company, when it first
00:50:41came out, after it came out at 46 liras
00:50:44and 80 kuruş, on February
00:50:472025, it has become 3,000 liras
00:50:51at the point we have reached today. Let me tell you in terms of market
00:50:54value,
00:50:56in terms of market value, it has become 26 billion
00:50:59dollars, what does 26 billion dollars mean?
00:51:02To make a comparison? Destek Factoring
00:51:05has 250 employees, yes,
00:51:09its annual turnover does not exceed 1
00:51:13billion TL, and at the same time, it is not a very profitable
00:51:16organization in terms of profitability.
00:51:19Within the same finance sector. I am
00:51:23not counting the factoring company. Look, yes,
00:51:27as of today, look at Yapı Kredi Bank,
00:51:30the current market value of Yapı Kredi Bank,
00:51:33which has nearly 15,000 employees and thousands
00:51:36of branches, after these recent declines,
00:51:39is 6-6.5 billion dollars. Garanti
00:51:42Bank is the same, that is, you include
00:51:46our banks, you include our holdings, you add
00:51:49them up, it was not even a single factoring company at that time. A company
00:52:05of 1 billion dollars, even more than that.
00:52:07Today, if you were to go and see the Turkish factory,
00:52:11the world's largest publicly traded factoring company was
00:52:15ours at that time. Yes, such news
00:52:19came out, this triggered the event
00:52:22first, the spear started not to fit
00:52:25in the sack, I have another question mark in my mind
00:52:29and I cannot solve this, after that, the problem is very important,
00:52:32we will be back soon.
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01:00:14Ladies and gentlemen, we are together again on Halk TV,
01:00:17Söz Sende continues. We are evaluating the agenda
01:00:21with our esteemed guests on an evening where
01:00:24hot developments follow each other breathlessly.
01:00:27There are many questions from you, how will the liquidation
01:00:31process of these funds be? We said at the beginning that
01:00:35more than 500 thousand investors are wondering what
01:00:38will happen next. Mr. Gençal will tell us, Bahat Özgür has
01:00:42things to say now. Mehmet Şimşek made a manipulation
01:00:45why did he wait 10 months?
01:00:57a regulation made on August,
01:00:59and after this regulation,
01:01:02the operating mechanism suddenly stopped,
01:01:06but there is something I am very curious about.
01:01:09A decision was made in one day, a meeting was held
01:01:12in the morning, after the meeting,
01:01:16they came out saying 130. Yes, why
01:01:19not 100 funds, why not 50 funds,
01:01:22or why not 250 funds? It was said
01:01:26130 funds, like a pinpoint shot, then one more
01:01:29fund was added, and it was decided
01:01:32to liquidate 131 funds. I cannot
01:01:36answer this question. This question,
01:01:39I think, needs to be asked and answered, that is,
01:01:43my suspicion is this, it was already known what was done
01:01:47in which fund long before, and
01:01:50was a decision made in one night? Because
01:01:53after this, especially for
01:01:56building trust, this is one of the questions
01:02:00that needs to be explained and answered, I think. This question is very
01:02:03critical. This question asked by Mr. Gençal. Of course, will we learn the
01:02:07answer? I mean, we are also curious about this. You asked,
01:02:10we really rang Kerim's ears from here. I can answer you.
01:02:14Now, he asked a lot of questions. He didn't get an answer to any of those questions.
01:02:30Our MP from Kesir, he also
01:02:33doesn't get answers, he is one of the people who knows
01:02:37economics very well, he is actually a former
01:02:40fund manager. Let's send our love and greetings to Mr. Burak.
01:02:44Let's see if anyone will answer these questions now. Mr. Bülbül,
01:02:47why did he wait 10 months? Please,
01:02:51with the 2017 referendum, the Presidential
01:02:54Government System came on April 16. This Presidential
01:02:57Government System is a one-man
01:03:00party, one-party government, one-man rule. Now you look,
01:03:04the responsibility of the ministers is not
01:03:07towards the parliament, it is directly towards the one-man,
01:03:11towards the palace at the head of the executive, towards Mr. President.
01:03:14Without Mr. President's permission,
01:03:17you cannot even determine when a tire will be used
01:03:21in Turkey. With presidential decrees, it is even determined when a winter
01:03:25tire will be used, if it will be used today,
01:03:29in which month it will be used. "This
01:03:32regime, the Presidential Government System, is a one-man
01:03:36regime, where the sole responsibility
01:03:39of ministers is attached to one person, especially
01:03:43the managements. For example, I mentioned the Capital
01:03:46Markets Board law earlier. What does it say? It
01:03:50says it is an autonomous
01:03:53administrative structure that carries out auditing and regulatory
01:03:57operations. Now
01:04:00nothing can be done without the knowledge
01:04:03of the boards in the Presidential Palace.
01:04:07Now I am a member of the Grand National Assembly of Turkey.
01:04:10I am the group spokesperson for the Justice Committee.
01:04:14We look at the legislative proposals that come to the
01:04:18Justice Committee. We look at the legislative proposals
01:04:21that come to the other Planning and Budget Committee.
01:04:24They do not come without approval from the boards
01:04:27attached to the palace above, for example, the Law and Policy
01:04:30Board, for example, the Health Board, for example, the Education
01:04:33Board. So, in Article 78 of the Constitution,
01:04:37in this system, MPs submit draft laws,
01:04:41but they remain in the air.
01:04:44There is no separation of powers, there is a unity of powers.
01:04:48These boards also have a feature, for example,
01:04:50the judicial package 12, the judicial package 12
01:04:54that was introduced 3 months ago. The Minister
01:04:57of Justice, Mr. Gürlek, said that they prepared the package,
01:05:01they will send it to Beştepe, they will get approval from Beştepe,
01:05:05and then they will send it to the Justice Committee.
01:05:08The Justice Committee will send it to the General Assembly of the
01:05:12Grand National Assembly of Turkey. He said it very clearly
01:05:15and plainly. Where is Beştepe? The Palace. Everything
01:05:19is determined in the Palace. What do you say? The Economic
01:05:23Council, Health Council, Policy Council, Law Council
01:05:26in the Palace decide, continues. Who are these?
01:05:30These are councils without responsibility.
01:05:33But they interfere in politics. Let me tell you this.
01:05:36Unless a decision is made in the Palace,
01:05:40a decision was made during this 10-month period,
01:05:44during this 10-month period. After that, these interventions
01:05:47were made in September, but I want to ask Şimşek,
01:05:50I want to ask the Minister of Finance, the Minister of Treasury,
01:05:54is there a political structure that prevented you from intervening
01:05:57during the 10-month period even though you knew that manipulation
01:06:01was being done and you said that there was a need
01:06:04for intervention in this situation? Have political figures said,
01:06:08"Stop, my dear Minister of Finance?" I am telling
01:06:11the CMB officials. "Have political
01:06:14identities, political figures intervened and stopped
01:06:18your duty of regulation and supervision? In this
01:06:22context, if so, Mr. Minister, you, as the responsible
01:06:25person, on what percentage do you stand
01:06:28according to the CMB law and other laws, you should
01:06:32resign. Mr. Minister, because you did not do
01:06:36it for 10 months, because you did not fulfill the need
01:06:39for intervention and regulation, because you neglected your
01:06:43duty, in every way, that is, either
01:06:46some politicians intervened and stopped you, or
01:06:49you did not do it. 525 billion, as you
01:06:53explained earlier, Ms. Biliga, the amount
01:06:56in these funds which was 297 billion
01:07:00in November 2025, increased to 822 billion
01:07:02in September. Where did they take this 522-25
01:07:06billion TL concentration? What did they do? As you
01:07:10said earlier, did it go to Switzerland? Where did it go? Where did it go?
01:07:14I also have a question. About these banking
01:07:17licenses, what will the judiciary do
01:07:20about the managers who give banking
01:07:23licenses to these financial institutions and the political
01:07:27identities who give them instructions? Will the judiciary
01:07:30open an investigation into this? The chairman
01:07:33of the board of directors of the factoring
01:07:37company made a statement saying that the CMB
01:07:40supervises them, meaning the BRSA supervises them.
01:07:44He says that they have started the necessary initiatives
01:07:47regarding investment banking, he says
01:07:51there is no problem with him, he says the state
01:07:55supervises it, and it is not possible for him
01:07:58to commit a crime in something that the state supervises.
01:08:02If he says this, if he says this,
01:08:05it means that this business, as we said
01:08:09earlier, has a leg in the management
01:08:12level, it has a political leg, and
01:08:15in the one-party structure, in the Presidential
01:08:19Government System, there is intervention from certain
01:08:23places by political figures, saying to wait
01:08:2610 months or not to do this, or that
01:08:30there is no need for regulation regarding
01:08:33these transactions. Yes, now
01:08:36I will go to Mr. Türkoğlu, but before I do,
01:08:39I want to ask my friends to prepare
01:08:42visual number 5. As I stated earlier,
01:08:45the Minister of Treasury and Finance, Mehmet Şimşek,
01:08:49made this statement 10 months ago, and then what happened?
01:08:53Today, Karar Newspaper had an important
01:08:56news item about this, a news item on its front
01:09:00page. Let's look at that too. It says the instruction
01:09:03to the CMB went in December. Karar Newspaper
01:09:07states in its news
01:09:09published today that while it is debated
01:09:13why measures against the crisis in the fund market
01:09:16were not taken in time, it has been learned
01:09:19that the plan prepared by the CMB to prevent
01:09:22manipulation was approved only 10 months later.
01:09:26The Financial Stability Committee gave instructions to the CMB
01:09:30on December 2, 2025. The CMB then established
01:09:33a working group on December 3 and prepared a text.
01:09:36On December 15, it requested opinions and evaluations
01:09:40from Borsa Istanbul AŞ and
01:09:42Istanbul Takas Saklama Bankası AŞ. The expected opinions
01:09:45reached the CMB in August 2026.
01:09:49That is, the report came in August 2026,
01:09:53or rather it couldn't come at all. Mr. Türkoğlu
01:09:56now. There were also questions
01:09:59asked by Erhan Usta, İyi Party Samsun MP,
01:10:02regarding these funds, both about the investigation
01:10:05and the liquidation process. He brought it
01:10:09to the agenda of the Parliament. He had critical questions
01:10:29for the Minister of Treasury and Finance, Mehmet Şimşek. For example,
01:10:32he asked, "Why was there a 10-month delay?" He
01:10:35asked who would compensate the small investor's
01:10:38loss. He asked whether the competent institutions had done
01:10:51their duty or not. Had they neglected
01:10:54their duty? He asked if it would be investigated.
01:10:58He asked if action would be taken against
01:11:01those who were negligent in the CMB and other institutions. We are concerned
01:11:05that this will be glossed over with explanations,
01:11:08because, if we look at the matter
01:11:13more broadly, as I mentioned earlier, these things do not happen
01:11:17without the support of the political will.
01:11:20The one-man system, that is, the one-palace
01:11:23system, as my esteemed colleague alluded to earlier,
01:11:26leaves no specific weight,
01:11:29no originality,
01:11:31and no expertise to anyone. So,
01:11:35if we think that the chairman of the CMB, the chairman of the Central Bank,
01:11:39the members of the BRSA or any other
01:11:42such institutions or boards in Turkey
01:11:46can act solely in accordance with what
01:11:50the law dictates to them or what the market conditions
01:11:53require, we are in a great
01:11:56delusion. Why are we
01:12:00in such a delusion? We have seen
01:12:03plenty of examples. Look, regarding
01:12:06this Katılım Evim, for example, I had a meeting
01:12:10because of a problem that occurred specifically
01:12:13in Bursa. There was a crisis called
01:12:17Atış Yapı, and in this crisis, there were
01:12:20thousands of victims. The land in the middle
01:12:24of a big city was on Katılım Evim,
01:12:27and when we talked to him about why these sales
01:12:31were overlooked, we couldn't solve
01:12:34the problem in detail. But now, I will
01:12:38not name names, but we saw that none of these things happened
01:12:42without the support of the political will. It is clear
01:12:46that the value of the land there
01:12:48is around 300 million dollars.
01:12:52It stands there clearly. We want the assets
01:13:25of those who caused these losses,
01:13:28these manipulations, to be confiscated,
01:13:31including the capital and money they took
01:13:35abroad, and we want the damages
01:13:38of the victimized, so to speak,
01:13:41defrauded citizens to be compensated.
01:13:44Look, he knows, he leaves after two
01:13:47months, and during his tenure, he serves
01:13:51as the chairman of the Corporate Governance Committee
01:13:55and is involved in the audit and early
01:13:58risk detection committees. For example, there is another
01:14:01name, again Necip Fazıl Kaymaz, former
01:14:04Deputy Head of the Presidential Finance Office,
01:14:07who is appointed as a chief advisor in the same holding. You know the
01:14:11others, Kerem Alkin, Emre Alkin. Now, these are not independent
01:14:15of this work. What is said, what
01:14:18is heard, what is known is the same. Now, what
01:14:22the citizen is wondering is what will happen
01:14:25to us, what will happen to our losses. I mean,
01:14:29according to what the experts say, there are
01:14:32three areas of risk here,
01:14:36that is, there are three different things.
01:14:38Firstly, this can take 2-3
01:14:42months at the beginning, how the net figure
01:14:45will turn out. But there are two
01:14:48main types of funds: money market funds
01:14:51and equity funds. Money market
01:14:55funds, these are low-risk,
01:14:57in category 1,2. This 330 billion
01:15:01part is on this side. Their risk is slightly
01:15:04lower. The deposits in the funds,
01:15:07assets like treasury bills, retain their value.
01:15:11However, approximately half of the funds
01:15:14were evaluated with reverse repo transactions.
01:15:17On this occasion, that is, things that
01:15:21experts will know more about, it touches
01:15:24on bubble stocks. With the assumption that
01:15:27the value of these stocks will be very low,
01:15:30there may be a loss of 100 billion in money
01:15:33market funds, which also amounts
01:15:36to 100 billion. The main equity funds are high-risk,
01:15:40in category 6-7, as the professor also
01:15:44mentioned earlier. Approximately 500 billion of the assets in question
01:15:48are here. We predict that the value of the
01:15:50stocks held by these funds will be very
01:15:54low, that is, there may be a 90%
01:15:58loss here, all experts say. Of
01:16:01course, this rate, that is,
01:16:03people will hardly be able to get even
01:16:0610% of their money. That is, for
01:16:10those in the equity funds I mentioned
01:16:13last, experts have opinions that
01:16:17it could be like this. These
01:16:20have been discussed for days, the professor
01:16:24can confirm it. In short, the country's
01:16:28economy is facing a total collapse, a total rottenness,
01:16:31a separate crisis, the working life
01:16:35is a separate crisis, we are facing such a
01:16:38chaotic situation. Who managed
01:16:42this place? I mean, isn't there a political
01:16:44dimension to this for God's sake? Aren't these people responsible?
01:16:48Can the government get away with saying "Hey,
01:16:51Where will they be we lost." Is there such a
01:16:54thing? No, it's not
01:16:58like that. There's no risk here. There's
01:17:01a fraudulent network set up for citizens
01:17:04here. In this fraudulent network, the main
01:17:08culprits are those who established
01:17:11this whole
01:17:14fraudulent scheme, along with the political actors involved.
01:17:17The Capital Markets Board (SPK), the Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Treasury,
01:17:20all of them who did not fulfill their duties,
01:17:23are involved. Yes. They need to be held accountable. The government cannot get away with saying
01:17:27"There is profit and loss in this business."
01:17:31So, uh,
01:17:35now, uh, I'm asking
01:17:38our dear viewers, our guests,
01:17:41can a fund, or rather, the stocks that a fund invests in,
01:17:45if I can explain it correctly, increase by
01:17:4810,000% in a year?
01:17:52The total return of the fund,
01:17:56meaning since its establishment, not in a year, but since
01:18:00its establishment, of course,
01:18:03at this point, today
01:18:06the statements made on Halk TV
01:18:10were widely discussed. Also, let me send our regards,
01:18:14Erda Sağlam will be with us tomorrow evening. Journalist Erda
01:18:17Sağlam's shares
01:18:19were first a closed fund.
01:18:21Now I will invite Bahadir Özgür once
01:18:24again to my side, but we will proceed by taking Mr. Genal's
01:18:28comments. I want to ask my friends
01:18:31for visual number 6. A fund is
01:18:35closed before it is opened to Tefas. This fund,
01:18:38which is said to have increased by approximately 10,000%, has 12
01:18:42people in it. Now, this is the most discussed
01:18:46fund, the TLY fund, which they call a high-risk fund.
01:18:50One of the main actors of this fund
01:18:53is this fund, which was actually established
01:18:57in 2020, but I will explain why we took it from March
01:19:00onwards. Now, in March, it was closed until July,
01:19:04meaning it was open to qualified investors. It was not open to everyone.
01:19:07You say, of course, you can enter whenever you want,
01:19:11sir. We cannot call this just a fund.
01:19:14This is a free fund. Let's invite
01:19:18you here too, Mr. Gen. Let me go next to Bahadır Özgür. Please,
01:19:21let's proceed together. Therefore, a free fund
01:19:25means that it is open
01:19:28only to qualified investors.
01:19:31Who is a qualified investor? Very good. The definition of a qualified investor
01:19:35was a definition made by the SPK.
01:19:37In due course,
01:19:40it just came out as someone
01:19:43with 10 million TL in assets. As of this year, that is,
01:19:47towards the end of 2025, they changed it.
01:19:50We also have warnings about that. Again,
01:19:54in the economy channel,
01:19:57you keep this qualified investor issue at 1 million
01:20:00TL. Everyone now has 1 million
01:20:03TL. In this inflationary environment, everyone has
01:20:061 million TL. That's why you need to change
01:20:09its definition. They changed its definition to someone
01:20:13with 10 million TL in the easiest way, but we know
01:20:17that in a place where there is no financial literacy in Turkey,
01:20:20even a person with
01:20:24100 million TL, not
01:20:2610 million, may not
01:20:28have the capacity
01:20:31to know what kind of risk a financial
01:20:35instrument carries. "I have completed
01:20:3836 years in these markets, yes, even
01:20:42after 36 years, I still
01:20:45struggle to understand the risks behind some new financial
01:20:48instruments. You need to make
01:20:52connections, because our investors
01:20:55always focus on returns. The Vişne Mining
01:20:58stock has increased by 1925%. "Let's all go and buy Vişne Mining."
01:21:02But what is this stock? What is the balance sheet behind
01:21:05it?
01:21:08What is the cash flow? What is the price-to-earnings ratio?
01:21:11Who are the people involved in this? How was it
01:21:15established? Which supply chains does it use? I can ask
01:21:19you thousands of questions about this. Forget
01:21:22this, this is just one stock. There are other
01:21:25funds behind this that use derivative instruments
01:21:29to generate returns. Therefore,
01:21:32a qualified investor does not just mean
01:21:35someone with 10 million in financial assets; it also means
01:21:39someone with financial literacy.
01:21:41And if not, yes, then there is
01:21:45something I always emphasize in my broadcasts: independent,
01:21:49I repeat, independent, underlined in bold,
01:21:52independent financial advisors
01:21:56should be used for entry into these
01:22:00types of funds. Okay,
01:22:02a free fund is closed
01:22:06to the public. Let's say, of course, as journalists,
01:22:09our duty is to simplify something complex
01:22:12if there's a crime there. So we didn't
01:22:15write down the technical details, that's why we invited
01:22:19you. So let's simplify it like this then:
01:22:22you can't enter this even if you want to.
01:22:25This fund
01:22:29has 12 people. So there are 12 people. I took it from March onwards.
01:22:32Its establishment is older, but I can't explain why we took it. It's the point where
01:22:36the business started. So in March 2025, there are 12 people in this fund.
01:22:40We don't know these 12 people. That's the whole thing.
01:22:43Actually, March 2025 is an interesting
01:22:46date. Hmm. You tell it. In February 2025,
01:22:50a stock is offered to the public. Yes, it's not
01:22:54just Vişne Mining. There's also Destek, he will mention
01:22:57that too. In 2025, meaning the one
01:23:00who is accused now, and in February
01:23:032025, the company
01:23:05that was offered to the public, even though
01:23:0925% was offered to the public, in the statement given by the person
01:23:13who is the controlling shareholder of Destek Factoring today, 20%
01:23:17was taken back. Do you know why this is important?
01:23:24The new party leader Özgür Özel is after something.
01:23:27He said something to us, he said that when
01:23:31the fund was closed, there were people inside. We need to find
01:23:35out who they are. That's the key. Who are these people?
01:23:38Who started this business and made huge profits
01:23:41from it? That's why these 12 people, it's not important that there are many people in a fund.
01:23:45It's not. Here, that's why we need to focus on
01:23:48these 13 people, or it could be 20 later, but
01:23:52what's important is the initial cap, the first people who set up this scheme.
01:23:55It actually reached 10.5 billion liras. Before
01:23:59I move on to that, our viewers get very angry when I interrupt
01:24:03Bahadır Özgür, but I will ask Mr. Gençal
01:24:07at this point, and then Bahadır Özgür can continue.
01:24:11Of course, in a very simple and understandable way, so that Ayşe Teyze and Mehmet Amca can understand:
01:24:14How did the prices of those shares balloon
01:24:18when this fund was closed and there were 12 people in it?
01:24:21He sold it to him, he sold it back to him, and the price of that share was driven up?
01:24:25How did it happen? Madam, while the public offering
01:24:29rate was 25%, and I had already taken
01:24:32ownership of 20% myself,
01:24:35with 5% remaining,
01:24:38I can use other methods to increase its price.
01:24:42What other methods could there be? It's still
01:24:45closed. I can take a loan.
01:24:48Through the loan I took,
01:24:51I can go and buy more shares for
01:24:55the fund. How can I get a loan
01:24:58to buy shares for the fund? I have another fund.
01:25:01Now, our viewers always ask, "There's no risk
01:25:05in money market funds." Please watch
01:25:08that video from November 11,
01:25:122025. Please watch the video.
01:25:15How can there be no risk? We say there
01:25:18are leveraged transactions
01:25:22in the money market. These are done with leveraged transactions
01:25:25in the money market. How are leveraged transactions
01:25:29done in the money market? When I said this, I was lynched. "How can
01:25:33there be leveraged transactions in the money market?" It can be done.
01:25:36How is it done? If I want to go and buy
01:25:40that 5% from around, option A:
01:25:43I need to put money into this fund, and right now, besides
01:25:47the 12 people, there is no one else. This fund is not public.
01:25:50It cannot obtain funds from anywhere else besides these 12 people.
01:25:54Or I need to create
01:25:57a source to be able to buy shares
01:26:01for my fund again. How do I create
01:26:04that source? By giving the assets
01:26:07of this fund as collateral to another fund,
01:26:11and on the other side, as a money market, which is public,
01:26:14there is that 1 and 2 risk profile I mentioned, which is very
01:26:18low risk.
01:26:25By giving a higher interest rate to things, how much? Monthly 1%,
01:26:28yearly, with compounding or compound interest, by offering
01:26:32a return maturity
01:26:34that is 13% higher,
01:26:37I can bring funds into this money market
01:26:40fund. And in the same way,
01:26:44with a stock collateral from here, with that stock
01:26:47collateral, a bubble was created.
01:26:51I can take the 5% back into the fund.
01:26:55So the fund you said was very safe is actually being poisoned. You know, you're saying, yes,
01:26:58think like this: I gave this example earlier, Mr. Selçuk said,
01:27:01uh, there can be losses
01:27:05in money market funds of 100 billion. You don't know
01:27:08its nature. We don't know who
01:27:11has how much leverage, what kind of collateralization
01:27:15is done in which fund, in which money market fund, what
01:27:17is inside this fund. From here, I say:
01:27:21"To all investors, in their future
01:27:25fund investments, I want to say this:
01:27:28What is inside the fund? What am I buying?
01:27:32When you go to the market, you choose tomatoes, right?
01:27:35You don't just take a paper bag. You look inside the paper bag.
01:27:39What's inside? Tomatoes, zucchini, eggplant. And
01:27:42is it rotten or not?
01:27:46Please look inside the fund. What is there? Which stock
01:27:49is there?" Is there a bond,
01:27:53a private sector bond? Which company's private sector
01:27:56bond is there? Which company's stock is there? Not just
01:28:00that it has risen by 1925%.
01:28:02What is it? Why did it rise? Did this guy
01:28:06discover a quantum computer? Yes, well, thank you very much.
01:28:09Let Mr. Gençol take his seat. I'll pass it to Bahadır Özgür to explain. I think
01:28:13this is understood. These 12 people
01:28:17are currently under investigation, which is very important. This is what Özgür Özel
01:28:34is pointing to. Tera, through this stock,
01:28:37inflated the price as explained earlier.
01:28:40The mechanisms increased by 1900% in 6 months
01:28:44after the public offering. There is no such thing as a 19% increase in 6 months.
01:28:48This is like splitting the moon in two. If you believe that,
01:28:50you'll believe this too. I mean, if you believe the sea parted,
01:28:54you'll believe this too. It can't be otherwise.
01:28:57There's no such thing in the world, nor in such a company, as he said.
01:29:00I mean,
01:29:02"Did you find a cure for a fatal disease? Did you produce
01:29:06a quantum computer?" Sir, in some stocks abroad,
01:29:10not in 6 months, but in periods of 2,
01:29:133, 4 years, the stock
01:29:17price sometimes multiplies by 10 or 20.
01:29:20But there's a story behind these stocks.
01:29:23I'm going to say that. There's nothing here. When this happens, people
01:29:27in the fund also naturally spread
01:29:30propaganda: "The fund is very valuable, it earns this much." saying it earns
01:29:33this much. And Tera's fund comes
01:29:37in July. In July 2025,
01:29:40it becomes open to everyone, to everyone. They say, "Oh,
01:29:44how much does this fund earn? It has this kind of stock."
01:29:47This is spread to everyone through social
01:29:50media, through propaganda tools,
01:29:53YouTube, Telegram, many channels get involved.
01:29:57Look, this is a network. That's why
01:30:00after it opened, the number of people immediately jumped to 107.
01:30:03The size reached 23.7 billion liras. So it doubled.
01:30:07Three months later, the number of people reached 47,000.
01:30:11The size increased to 43 billion liras. Today,
01:30:14there are 102,000 people, including those who left,
01:30:17the remaining 102,000 people. The size is also 234
01:30:21billion liras. People should just calculate this:
01:30:24From last July to this
01:30:27September, all
01:30:31the most discussed closed funds of Tera
01:30:34and who those people are? How will we find this out now?
01:30:38We can't find this out. Even if we knew, we couldn't say it, because it's forbidden.
01:30:42Forbidden. The prosecutor,
01:30:45so Mr. Ömer is right, this is not SPK, BDDK,
01:30:48or whatever. This needs to be investigated
01:30:52by public prosecutors as qualified fraud,
01:30:55as an accusation of a gang, as an accusation of organized
01:30:58crime, so that all of these can come to light. Otherwise,
01:31:01look, when you look at the charges written
01:31:04against those currently detained and questioned,
01:31:08they are related to the SPK law. Mr. Süleyman knows the SPK law better,
01:31:11there are penalties between 3 and 5 years.
01:31:15This investigation cannot be conducted with
01:31:18that law. This is an organized fraud.
01:31:22I mean, how do you,
01:31:25in IMM, how do you immediately classify
01:31:29the use of a banned substance by celebrities as money laundering?
01:31:32I mean, today, anyone you arrest, you start
01:31:36classifying the proceeds of crime as money laundering and organized crime.
01:31:39This is the real organized crime. That's why
01:31:43the question always is, who are these lucky 12 people? Who are the founders
01:31:46of this fund, and who is the person
01:31:49who inflated this stock like this? When we start from there,
01:31:53we will begin to solve this problem. There is no
01:31:56other way. Therefore, I insistently
01:31:59emphasize, look, call this what it is:
01:32:02a fund crisis. Some people are deliberately muddying the waters. This is not a fund crisis,
01:32:06it's not a stock market crisis. This is not just
01:32:09manipulation. We're talking about a structure here. Look, this structure
01:32:12is powerful enough to have journalists
01:32:15detained, arrested, and to block access to their news.
01:32:18This structure is powerful enough to manipulate
01:32:22social media, Telegram, YouTube. This structure
01:32:25is powerful enough to feed hundreds of trolls. Because
01:32:28when you open your mouth, look, one of these seized funds was Bulls Investment.
01:32:32They offered a company with zero employees to the public. I asked how a company
01:32:36with zero employees could exist. "Is there no tea maker?" Both
01:32:40a lawsuit was filed and a ban was imposed. Instantly, within an
01:32:43hour. Within an hour. I
01:32:46will ask him to ask again.
01:32:50How does a company with zero employees work?
01:32:53When offering a company with zero employees to the public,
01:32:57the prospectus, the IPO document, states that we have zero employees.
01:33:01That's why I'm saying, from the period of the IPO mobilization
01:33:04until now, how much time has passed,
01:33:07and what has happened? How many years ago was it established?
01:33:10It starts with IPOs. There were some rip-offs there,
01:33:14then came the funds. And if
01:33:17this structure is not liquidated,
01:33:19those who did this will come up with something else tomorrow. It won't make a difference.
01:33:23Tomorrow, they will do this through
01:33:26another mechanism. That's why
01:33:29one needs to look at the Tera business as an organism.
01:33:33This has permeated many places, look. That's why I will say
01:33:37it right away and not interrupt again. I'll leave it at that.
01:33:40Look, just selling these stocks
01:33:43and paying the funds will not work. In the Madoff case,
01:33:47they sold everything down to his socks. Look, the state took
01:33:50his house, his car, the money he left to his children
01:33:54in the Madoff case in America, and they paid
01:33:58almost all of it. And this was not
01:34:01this much, you know? You're talking about 20 billion dollars.
01:34:05What does this mean? It corresponds to 1%
01:34:08of Turkey's national income, 1-1.5% of its economic
01:34:12size. This is not a joke. This is
01:34:15not an issue that can be simply brushed aside.
01:34:19Yes, Bahadur Özgür explained it very clearly and precisely.
01:34:22Let me summarize it and then give the floor to my guests. 12 people, a closed fund,
01:34:26and then Tera opens itself to the public. The number
01:34:30of people suddenly jumps from 12 to 107.
01:34:33Three months later, it reaches 47,000.
01:34:36At the point we have reached,
01:34:39this is the most discussed fund. Can we say this is the number of people
01:34:42stuck in the fund? Uh,
01:34:45we don't know right now. I, I actually,
01:34:49the liquidation process of the funds was also announced promptly.
01:34:52It is correct, a good
01:34:56action, but very incomplete.
01:34:59Why incomplete? Within the liquidation process
01:35:01of the funds, how will you sell
01:35:05such illiquid stocks,
01:35:09which have no liquidity, at what price,
01:35:11to whom, and when? I mean, they say 3 months.
01:35:15I honestly
01:35:17uh, it's not just
01:35:2112 people. Look, it's not just
01:35:2412 people. Because
01:35:28the loss incurred by this fund,
01:35:31including this fund and the 131 funds mentioned,
01:35:35the loss that will be incurred,
01:35:37if it is 10 billion, 15 billion, 20 billion,
01:35:41whatever it is in dollars, we don't know the exact amount right now.
01:35:47In order not to victimize
01:35:50so many people, so many people who are stuck
01:35:53inside, the public needs to intervene politically
01:35:57again. This time, it will put 86
01:36:00million under a new
01:36:03obligation. Let me take my seat,
01:36:07I'll go through it quickly. There's also a solution. Let's discuss the solution, Mr. Bülbül.
01:36:11These lucky 12 people, and now Bahadır's explanations.
01:36:15After that, Özgür Özel's question on Friday comes to mind
01:36:18again. He said that there are some questions
01:36:21we will ask in the coming days. You will remember.
01:36:25What do you think he will ask, and to whom will he ask it?
01:36:28Of course, were the political
01:36:31instructions given during the 10-month
01:36:33period? If not, why weren't
01:36:37they given? Why did the minister wait
01:36:41so long? I mean, here's the thing:
01:36:44they are only listing the names of the fund managers who carried out these transactions
01:36:48right now. Prosecutor's
01:36:51proceedings are being carried out against them, they are being detained. What's important
01:36:54here is who benefited, who established
01:36:58this mechanism? This mechanism
01:37:02is an organized fraud mechanism. So there are those
01:37:05who established this mechanism. Is there intervention from politicians?
01:37:09Who protected them? Is there protection
01:37:12for those who established this mechanism? Also, who
01:37:16ignored this? This is very important. Why
01:37:18am I saying this? Now, the owner
01:37:22of Destek Holding, Altunç
01:37:25Kumov, gave a statement. In this statement,
01:37:29he says that regarding the market value of Destek Factoring rising
01:37:32from 15 billion TL to 1.3 trillion TL,
01:37:36he says, "I, as the company owner,
01:37:39didn't know what to do." And in his statement, he also says,
01:37:43"We are a company audited
01:37:46by the SPK. We thought that if there was an abnormal
01:37:50situation, we would definitely be notified." You know,
01:37:54can you imagine? I am audited
01:37:56by the SPK. Also audited
01:38:00by the BDDK. A factoring company
01:38:04is also audited by the BDDK. Yes, a company
01:38:07with a market value of 15 billion TL has reached
01:38:101.3 trillion. He says this is abnormal, but
01:38:14we were being audited. I can also relay what else he said, and then I'll give you the floor.
01:38:18I want to ask my friends to bring up visual number 8.
01:38:21Uh, since Mr. Bülbül started explaining,
01:38:24the owner of Destek Holding told the prosecutor, he says, in summary,
01:38:28"The shares rose. Yes, I realized something was strange,
01:38:31but I also liked the increase in share prices," right?
01:38:35Doesn't Bahadur Özgür also?
01:38:38It's like money falling from the sky. Money is falling from the sky.
01:38:42You've opened 25% to the public.
01:38:45You have 75%. It was bought for 46 liras and went up to 3,000 liras.
01:38:49With 75% of it,
01:38:52it's almost like a freebie.
01:38:56He says, "I also sold 1%."
01:39:06Now the prosecutor asks, "There was no abnormality
01:39:09in the company, which had a market value of approximately 15 billion liras
01:39:12at 46 liras, reaching 1.3 trillion liras?"
01:39:15The answer: "Yes,
01:39:18the figure you mentioned is an abnormal figure, but as the company owner,
01:39:22I didn't know what to do in this situation.
01:39:25I sensed abnormality.
01:39:35The same thing happened with other companies on the stock market.
01:39:38Sales were made with permission,
01:39:41and at the same time, an announcement was made that the value of this company
01:39:45was not worth this much. This was immediately done for SASA.
01:39:49It happened with SASA too, I won't give names, but
01:39:52ultimately, you have something you can do.
01:39:56You have a public you're directing.
01:40:00You have the SPK and BDDK you're responsible to.
01:40:03Also, the company has legal personality. Simply put, there's a public,
01:40:06meaning the shares are constantly
01:40:10on the agenda, being discussed, funds are being discussed,
01:40:14and people are looking at what assets are in this fund.
01:40:17It's not just this company. Another company called Özata Denizcilik
01:40:21has also reached 7.5 billion dollars.
01:40:24Hocam, Katılım Evi is 8 billion dollars. Katılım Evi.
01:40:28Today, if you look, a company that would actually be worth
01:40:32between 75 million and 100 million dollars. How does it reach these
01:40:35levels? It starts competing with Turkey's giant industrial
01:40:38corporations, even surpassing them. Giant banks and industrial corporations cannot compete
01:40:42with these. Okay, another question. The prosecutor asks,
01:40:46"Your company is 4 times the size of Garanti Bank, Yapı Kredi Bank,
01:40:49as we just said, in terms
01:40:52of value?" when your company reached
01:40:55this size, didn't you see any
01:40:59manipulation or fraud here, he asks, and says,
01:41:03that the 4-fold increase in size you asked about is an abnormal
01:41:06situation, frankly, as a trader, it was
01:41:09a situation I liked, he says.
01:41:12The prosecutor's office asked who protected this mechanism,
01:41:15who didn't supervise it, who overlooked it,
01:41:19and
01:41:21we need to uncover this. They found some institution
01:41:24representatives, took them into custody. They are taking them.
01:41:28This wouldn't happen without a political leg, or without
01:41:31the ministry or without the CMB and
01:41:34the BRSA fully performing their supervisory
01:41:38and oversight duties . Such a thing wouldn't happen.
01:41:42Therefore, we need to uncover
01:41:45who provided this protection. You said independent judiciary,
01:41:48sir, you said impartial judiciary. You talked about trust in the judiciary.
01:41:52The trust in the judiciary my esteemed professor mentioned is below
01:41:5520%.
01:41:57So far, the ministry
01:42:00has not removed anyone from their positions at the managerial
01:42:04level, has not opened any investigation, and it's like a trick is being played,
01:42:07as if nothing happened. So,
01:42:10within the framework of the judiciary,
01:42:13this cannot be solved by
01:42:16detaining these people or imposing travel bans.
01:42:19You are putting people in jail for 1.5 to 2 years
01:42:23in the Aktaş case, where there is no organization.
01:42:26You are imprisoning representatives of the national will with political
01:42:30operations, and then you come out and say there is no organization.
01:42:33Here, here there is an organization, here
01:42:36there is clearly, clearly
01:42:39something being run with fraud.
01:42:42Did they impose an access ban on the person?
01:42:46We will talk about that. The tweets of very important people
01:42:50were also removed, an access ban was imposed. Nobody should hear about it. Uğur Gürses
01:42:53will be brought to the screens shortly.
01:42:57"Let me go to my professor Semih, Professor Semih, what do you say in light of
01:43:01what we are talking about? Should we talk about these things or the climate that created
01:43:05this environment? Education? Value system? What should we talk about?
01:43:08Well, this is a very technical issue. Yes, we are learning, but our
01:43:12guests are trying to explain it very clearly to us. Of course.
01:43:15Of course, in the meantime, I said in the previous
01:43:18section what the social impacts will be, so I won't
01:43:21take up too much time in that regard. I only have one question in my mind
01:43:25that I want to convey to the guests."
01:43:29It's always said, for 10 months, this didn't happen
01:43:32in one day, it didn't happen in three days.
01:43:35My question is, why was this
01:43:39intervention made today? In other words,
01:43:42why wasn't it done before? it is asked.
01:43:45If it's a sustainable thing, why was this intervention
01:43:48needed today? Yes, otherwise it wasn't
01:43:51something that was discussed much, as explained
01:43:55just now, it didn't happen all at once.
01:43:57The increases, the value increases happened gradually, but today
01:44:01someone pushed the button. Let me contribute with
01:44:05a question. I will ask Mr. Gençol about it soon. You mentioned MSCI,
01:44:09what would have happened if it hadn't made that warning?
01:44:12It probably would have continued. So that's what comes to my mind.
01:44:15In short, if America hadn't pushed us,
01:44:18professor, if it hadn't said anything, it was
01:44:21like a grey list. This is not American politics after all, it's the business community
01:44:25because the funds in that business community with their
01:44:27fund sizes
01:44:31that invest in developing countries like Turkey
01:44:34also report to their own investors.
01:44:38They also report to their own regulatory bodies.
01:44:41While reporting to their own regulatory bodies,
01:44:44of course, it's transparent, I mean, let me
01:44:47tell you, in 2008,
01:44:51to make our funds
01:44:53compatible with European Union funds,
01:44:57I was working as the Deputy General Manager
01:45:00responsible for investments in the fund management
01:45:03industry at that time, for a foreign
01:45:06bank's subsidiary...
01:45:10I was working as the Deputy General Manager. There were so many meetings
01:45:13I attended, where we would say
01:45:16'UCITS directive', meaning
01:45:19let's make Turkish funds compatible with European Union funds,
01:45:23yes, let's open
01:45:27a big source for investments
01:45:30here, let European funds come here and invest, let European investors
01:45:34also come and invest. If anyone wants,
01:45:38funds from Turkey can also
01:45:42go to Europe. However, after that date,
01:45:45especially the process of integration with the European Union
01:45:48has been constantly interrupted. Yes, unfortunately,
01:45:52this has kept us
01:45:55out of this integration. But don't ask me because we interrupted Professor Semih twice. We came to
01:45:58something related to the judiciary. No, it's not a problem. Please go ahead. It's not a problem.
01:46:02As I said, after all, we are trying to read
01:46:06and understand the technical side of the issue. Actually, the public and the citizens are also trying to understand.
01:46:40Due to the warning, with foreign
01:46:44funds and foreign capital investing in Borsa
01:46:47Istanbul feeling concerned, it intervened,
01:46:51taking into account the high probability of this
01:46:54ratio decreasing. So, what kind of
01:46:57trigger could have been for this? If this intervention hadn't happened,
01:47:01it would have been like this: MSCI would have said, "I am
01:47:04now moving Turkey from the emerging markets category to frontier
01:47:08market." This is a market where nothing is clear,
01:47:11where there is no transparency, where even how valuations
01:47:15are done is unclear. If anyone wants to take the risk,
01:47:19they should take it accordingly. I am reducing my weighting
01:47:23from this 2.5% level
01:47:26to 0.1%. Therefore, to be
01:47:29compatible with this, some funds that have invested in Turkey from
01:47:33abroad would turn around and sell here. It would be similar to the OECD
01:47:36putting us on a black list for money laundering.
01:47:40It's like credit rating agencies downgrading us from
01:47:43a level below investment
01:47:46grade to almost
01:47:50junk status.
01:47:53So, this is its technical meaning. Let me go to
01:47:57Mr. Türkoğlu. Mr. Türkoğlu will leave at the
01:48:00end of this hour, but I don't know if you have time, Mr. Türkoğlu. If
01:48:04you are leaving, I would like to hear your final words. Mr.
01:48:07Genal says that the spear doesn't fit in the sack. What do
01:48:10you say?
01:48:15He is right. The spear doesn't fit in the sack. Although
01:48:18it's in the tradition of the government
01:48:20to find a cover and excuse
01:48:24even if you build a minaret from here to the moon,
01:48:27the spear really doesn't fit in the sack anymore. Look,
01:48:30we need to look at it this way.
01:48:33There are lessons we need to learn
01:48:36from this incident. Just because
01:48:40funds are rising on the screen
01:48:44doesn't mean real wealth is created.
01:48:47Universal rules are clear, there's no need to rediscover
01:48:51them. Audits will be done on time. The biggest
01:48:54problem here is the clear lack of timely
01:48:58and real audits. There must be transparency,
01:49:02which is almost non-existent in any institution
01:49:04in Turkey. Responsibilities
01:49:08must be personalized.
01:49:22That is, it's not money to be lost at the
01:49:26financial gambling table, this should not be allowed.
01:49:29In short, we cannot condemn
01:49:33Turkey's economy to 3K.
01:49:36What is this? This is something we have seen a lot
01:49:40with this government, with the one-man rule:
01:49:43easy money, undeclared money,
01:49:47and black money. How long can an economy run
01:49:50on this? The biggest and most
01:49:53serious way of getting rich is now always
01:49:57through betting, black money,
01:50:00and manipulation in the stock market.
01:50:03Previously, when government officials came together,
01:50:07they always saw construction
01:50:11and tender businesses as profitable
01:50:14areas. Now, it is obvious
01:50:17that they have moved from seeing that as a profitable
01:50:20area to easier, faster, and higher profit
01:50:24areas. The capital
01:50:28market is built on trust. If there is no trust,
01:50:31then there is no stock market, no fund,
01:50:35and no financial center. If you think
01:50:39you are building a financial center by building
01:50:43buildings, then this is the
01:50:46result. We will be disgraced not only in our country
01:50:49but also in the whole world.
01:50:53Well, Mr. Türkoğlu, thank you very much
01:50:57for your time. We were going to talk at length, but due
01:51:00to these developments, we couldn't. Thank you.
01:51:03In a good party, we have raised the flag on this issue
01:51:07against all evils and wrongs,
01:51:10especially the process of betrayal. We have indeed
01:51:14raised the flag in Aksaray. Well, thank you very much. Let's take a break, then "Söz Sende"
01:51:18will continue. will continue.
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01:58:44What did he mean by "I am not a politician"? Will he join the People's Alliance? How does he view the Mecca
01:58:47agreement? What does the Ankara table he proposed
01:58:51mean? What does he think about the process
01:58:54called "Turkey without terror" and the allegations of a villa
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02:00:08"Söz Sende" continues on Halk TV screens. We are starting
02:00:12our 3rd hour, and look, we have another valuable guest,
02:00:15journalist Ercüment Akdeniz.
02:00:23We have many topics, many questions to ask, and our viewers also have questions
02:00:27they are curious about. We will continue asking them. Now, before we go to a break,
02:00:29Mr. Bülbül was going to ask a question,
02:00:33we said let's ask it later. Please. As the New
02:00:36Party, we have made a statement from
02:00:38our economic council against this fraud, qualified fraud,
02:00:42and organized fraud targeting small
02:00:45savers who have taken money from the citizens' bread.
02:00:49In this context, we say as the New Party
02:00:52that the CMB should explain
02:00:55to the public the chronology
02:00:57of the process that led
02:00:59to the recommendation of 131 funds and the reasons
02:01:02for the delay. Why should it explain? Because
02:01:06according to the Capital Markets Board Law, the CMB
02:01:10has the duty to conduct honest, safe,
02:01:13honest, and transparent supervision and oversight.
02:01:17So, it has this duty. As you explained
02:01:20earlier, you said
02:01:23it should perform a safe and transparent supervisory
02:01:26duty. Therefore, it must explain this chronology,
02:01:29the scope of the criminal investigations carried out regarding
02:01:33suspicious transactions must be explained, and possible negligence and faults
02:01:37within the CMB must be independently investigated. This is very
02:01:41important. All fund, TEFAS, IPO, and
02:01:44other permits given during the periods of previous CMB managements must be reviewed
02:01:55retrospectively. The decision-making bodies
02:01:58of those who granted these bank establishment permits
02:02:02must also be investigated transparently and clearly.
02:02:04The asset and account restrictions imposed by MASAK must be announced, and measures
02:02:08to protect investors' receivables
02:02:12must be taken without delay.
02:02:14Individuals suspected of concrete fraud
02:02:18should not be allowed to remain in the management of financial
02:02:21institutions. They should be removed from their
02:02:25positions, and measures should be taken within the framework
02:02:28of the law regarding money laundering
02:02:31concerning their assets. Preventing them from escaping
02:02:34with their assets. Emlak Katılım's potential acquisition
02:02:38of Katılım Evim and Birey must be explained transparently,
02:02:41including valuation, liabilities, and risks, and the public
02:02:44should not be allowed to bear past losses. This is very important.
02:02:48If the state, due to the managers, could not perform its
02:02:51management and oversight duties in this process,
02:02:55there is a responsibility. While fulfilling this responsibility,
02:02:59public interest must be taken
02:03:03into consideration, and for example,
02:03:06the issue of Tera, which we mentioned earlier,
02:03:10is very important, very important.
02:03:13They started with 12 people, as you explained.
02:03:18And in March 2025,
02:03:21it reached 10.5 billion, but in
02:03:24September, it reached 102,000 people. 12 people
02:03:27reached 102,000 people. The size increased to 234
02:03:31billion TL. Who are these 12 people? Who
02:03:34is 825 billion?
02:03:36Yes, yes, who are
02:03:40these 12 people? If there is
02:03:43transparency, reliability, and supervision
02:03:46and oversight, how did these 12 people
02:03:50become 102,000 people? Who are these 12
02:03:53people? Are there relatives
02:03:56of those with political connections among these
02:03:5912 people who benefited from this? Are there relatives
02:04:03of those in certain positions? Are there immediate
02:04:07relatives? Who overlooked
02:04:10whose interests? Who provided
02:04:13this? Who allowed them to benefit?
02:04:16These must be explained. Here, as a new party, our
02:04:20most important issue is the protection of small
02:04:24savers, Mr. Bülbül. Not just 12 people,
02:04:27yes, not just. Why not just 12 people?
02:04:31I will explain later, especially regarding this liquidation process,
02:04:34and regarding what needs to be done to prevent
02:04:38the public from being harmed by this, it's not just 12 people,
02:04:42but also everyone who has entered
02:04:46and exited the fund." In other words,
02:04:49everyone, somehow. We saw the
02:04:52Ahbap thing, you know, who invested
02:04:56money there, what happened, what ended, everything was publicly
02:04:59disclosed for everyone, right? Yes, so
02:05:02in this liquidation process,
02:05:05the smallest investor who has entered the last
02:05:09wagon and participated in this euphoria, and the small investor
02:05:12who is stuck inside, must not be victimized
02:05:16by this. For this, not just
02:05:19the 12 people who made abnormal amounts of money
02:05:23from this before, but also other people need to be revealed. The Minister of Justice always
02:05:26says, "Until whom does it reach?" Yes. Now,
02:05:32news is still coming in from the prosecutor's
02:05:35office in the evening, that is, close to 4
02:05:38billion liras were sent to a bank in Switzerland
02:05:42a few weeks before the day we said
02:05:45this fund could not pay and defaulted. So, money left this
02:05:48fund. Again, I don't understand how this
02:05:51money was sent from the bank, Mr. Bahadır.
02:05:55The BRSA immediately stops suspicious transactions. Professor,
02:05:58also the owner should send it.
02:06:09The bank calls, "Are you sending it? Are you doing this transaction
02:06:12from your mobile phone?" Did you say 4 million?
02:06:16Close to 4 billion TL goes to Switzerland. So, are you
02:06:19asking, a father sending allowance in euros
02:06:21to his child studying abroad,
02:06:25the banking system that asks for
02:06:28an explanation for this. How did it not see this? Was this money transferred
02:06:32outside the banking system completely,
02:06:35from the people's pockets? No, it's not a small saving. The name of the Swiss
02:06:39bank is known, the account from which it went is known. Therefore,
02:06:43it went through the banking system. The bank in Europe would
02:06:45not accept this without knowing the source
02:06:49of this money. So, it means these people have accounts
02:06:53opened on the other side. They have accounts opened. Exactly.
02:06:56It means there were also previous transfers. The bank's name is known because.
02:07:02Against this organized fraud stolen
02:07:04from the people's pockets, as a new party, we
02:07:08will hold accountable as many people as there are, including
02:07:12those with political connections among those 12 people.
02:07:15We promise our nation on this. Of course,
02:07:19our esteemed viewers watching us, thank you very much.
02:07:23We have to learn many things in accordance with
02:07:26the conditions we live in. For example, the financial literacy
02:07:30of citizens has developed. In law, we had to learn many things,
02:07:33and now it seems we will have extensive knowledge
02:07:37about funds, slowly. Therefore, we are all trying
02:07:40to understand, we are asking experts.
02:07:44For example, Kerim Rota says that in 4.5 years, the value
02:07:48of this fund increased 524 times. The money
02:07:51of someone who invested 1 million liras becomes 524
02:07:54million liras. But let's clarify that,
02:07:58for some,
02:08:00my question is, not everyone becomes like that. Now,
02:08:04someone who has 1 million liras and invests 1 million liras
02:08:08and earns 524 million liras, perhaps they took their money
02:08:10and left. It was the small investor who suffered.
02:08:14Is this correct? Did we understand correctly? Yes, yes, yes.
02:08:17So, who bought this fund and when did
02:08:21they get out? At what date? We cannot
02:08:25consider all the people who bought and exited the fund
02:08:28here as criminals. I can't say anything about that.
02:08:31From the very beginning, regarding the management
02:08:33of this fund, there is
02:08:36a faithful property account,
02:08:40as you know, there is
02:08:43management. So, what a fund manager should actually do
02:08:47is to treat it as if it were
02:08:51my own money, to show
02:08:54care, to pay attention. Beyond that care,
02:08:58to protect the investor's
02:09:01interests. This is the main
02:09:05duty of a fund manager. This is the main duty
02:09:07of an ethical fund manager. While doing this,
02:09:11the people who entered and exited this fund
02:09:14eventually reached their profits,
02:09:16realized them, took them. There's nothing to say about them.
02:09:20However, the fund manager and this portfolio management
02:09:24company have a big responsibility in this regard.
02:09:27This is one, two. Regarding
02:09:31the liquidation process,
02:09:33only two banks, one is İş Bankası, the other
02:09:37is Ziraat Bankası. Within a short period of 3
02:09:40months, the CMB said that there might
02:09:43be an extension at the end of
02:09:463 months. Considering these market conditions
02:09:50and the assets within the funds,
02:09:53if we consider them to be highly illiquid
02:09:57assets, the damage that will occur
02:10:00will be very large. Therefore,
02:10:03to prevent small investors
02:10:07who are stuck inside and have low financial literacy,
02:10:10who were perhaps People who entered here
02:10:13by hearing from someone, or entered here with good intentions
02:10:17or to earn a lot of money with the recommendation of someone.
02:10:21In order to compensate the damages of these people, just like it was done
02:10:25in Madoff, the amount of damages
02:10:28in these funds, which were bought and sold
02:10:32retrospectively, the amount of profits,
02:10:35should be given to the people who are currently
02:10:39suffering losses in some way. He posted a tweet yesterday,
02:10:42on top of that message,
02:10:56saying that I agree wholeheartedly and intellectually.
02:11:00This is what should be done as a general opinion
02:11:03in public. The parliament should take measures
02:11:06urgently to pass its legal regulation
02:11:09as soon as possible. I think there is
02:11:13an example in the United States, there was a similar example before,
02:11:17otherwise, after a certain time, we don't know
02:11:20how much damage has occurred as of now.
02:11:23As you know, there is a transfer of
02:11:27my participation house and my house to real estate participation.
02:11:31The damage that will arise here will eventually
02:11:35be tolerated by real estate participation
02:11:37and it will be necessary to re-capitalize.
02:11:41Where will this re-capitalization come from?
02:11:44It will mean a new burden on the citizens' backs
02:11:48as a capital transfer from the budget.
02:11:51So, a new budget deficit,
02:11:53new borrowing, paying more interest,
02:11:57new or more tax burden, new inflation,
02:12:01new disruption of income distribution,
02:12:04new disruption of wealth distribution,
02:12:07like this vicious cycle, a new vicious cycle
02:12:10in which Turkey's problems have grown even larger.
02:12:14On top of that, Ms. Bilge, at a point where global
02:12:18interest rates are currently increasing abroad,
02:12:21in a period where our current
02:12:24account deficit goes up to 51 billion dollars
02:12:27at the end of the year, and we are facing a risk of reputation,
02:12:31we don't know how much will come out of the net asset deficiency figure.
02:12:34It is added to the funding. Next year,
02:12:37we are entering into this obligation
02:12:41with higher interest rates in re-rolling the debts
02:12:44that have accumulated and are due.
02:12:47This means that Turkey is being exposed
02:12:50to a greater debt burden on its shoulders
02:12:53every passing day. Yes, on top of that,
02:12:57let me tell you, we are caught
02:13:00in a very delicate and sensitive period, where the real sector,
02:13:03which has a short position of
02:13:06205 billion dollars in foreign currency,
02:13:10due to high TL interest rates,
02:13:13has generally entered
02:13:16into foreign exchange risk. At the same time,
02:13:20we are facing the risk that those
02:13:22who came here through swaps
02:13:26or capital market instruments
02:13:29will leave again. Now,
02:13:33we are talking about a loss,
02:13:36but it seems that this can grow
02:13:39like a snowball if the necessary
02:13:42measures are not taken in the coming period
02:13:46with indirect effects. For example, former
02:13:50MASAK Vice President Ramazan Başak says that
02:13:53a victim fund should be established with the money of those who defrauded
02:13:57hundreds of thousands of small investors by exploiting national feelings,
02:14:00and it should be given to the public through the victim fund.
02:14:04This is the only way to reduce the victimization
02:14:07caused by a small, impudent group. Mr. Gençav said that if a legal
02:14:10regulation is needed for this, it should be done as soon as possible.
02:14:14What kind of legal regulation should be made for this? Well, Ms. Bilge,
02:14:17look, currently,
02:14:21in this organized fraud operation
02:14:24that we believe constitutes a crime,
02:14:28simply arresting and detaining the fund managers
02:14:31won't solve the problem. Who benefited and who
02:14:35oversaw, who protected these?
02:14:38In this context, our current Turkish Penal Code, the TCK...
02:14:42The MK has sufficient provisions in this context,
02:14:45yes, it has sufficient provisions. Of course, a regulation can be made
02:14:48regarding these funds for the Capital Markets Board.
02:14:52A regulation can be made regarding the funding issues,
02:14:55and that regulation should be in line
02:14:58with the European Union.
02:15:01So, there are points
02:15:05where things can be done, but currently, in the TCK,
02:15:08the punishment systems for the crime committed,
02:15:12negligence of duty, abuse of duty, qualified fraud,
02:15:15and an organized crime
02:15:19structure, which the public knows as a gang,
02:15:23are sufficient in the TCK. There is equipment,
02:15:26so it's sufficient. If you apply the TCK
02:15:30to those who are likely to commit this crime,
02:15:34to those who make these allegations,
02:15:37it will be like the case in America.
02:15:40But the problem for us is
02:15:44whether the judiciary is independent, whether the judiciary is impartial,
02:15:47whether the judiciary will be able to use
02:15:50this hand against political
02:15:54focuses, because this operation
02:15:58related to these funds or banking portfolios
02:16:01is not an operation that can be done
02:16:04without a political side. Yes, this will not
02:16:08work until the judiciary reaches its political side.
02:16:11There is a politicized judiciary in Turkey.
02:16:15Can this judiciary in a politicized judiciary
02:16:18where dual law is applied reach
02:16:21these politicians? Can it reach political subjects?
02:16:24I am skeptical about this, Mr. Bey.
02:16:27o konuda liderlik sonuç itibariyle yeni parti
02:16:31under the leadership of other
02:16:34opposition parties, should gather the people
02:16:37who are victims of this and who may be victims
02:16:41of this in the future and form a pressure group,
02:16:45so that they don't suffer losses from these monies
02:16:48taken from their pockets. We need to be open to any kind
02:16:51of regulation in the parliament.
02:16:55We need to be open, but do you know where we are coming from?
02:16:58There is no balance, no supervision, no transparency,
02:17:01no accountable system. In this system, there is no one
02:17:05to hold accountable, no balance and supervision, and no transparency.
02:17:09There is no security. If this doesn't exist,
02:17:12today in funds, tomorrow in health,
02:17:16the day after tomorrow in another sector.
02:17:19So, we will continue to talk about these issues.
02:17:23Now, let me ask Ercüment Akdeniz as a journalist.
02:17:27You receive many messages, right? There are young people,
02:17:30there are public employees who say, "I saved up from my
02:17:34teeth and nails, I made some savings."
02:17:37There are also those who say, "I am collecting my money
02:17:41to buy a house." And there are those who say,
02:17:44"I invested my money in this fund to pay my rent at the end of the month
02:17:48and my bills, what should I do now?" How would Ercüment Akdeniz interpret
02:17:52all these events? First, let me tell you,
02:17:55I spoke with an accountant, someone who has been doing accounting
02:17:59professionally for years. He says, "I warned everyone
02:18:02who came to me not to get involved in these things,
02:18:05but when it became 1.63, it looked good,
02:18:08it could be. I put 200-250 thousand liras
02:18:12and it went bankrupt." The accountant put it in after
02:18:16warning? Yes, yes, that's the point.
02:18:19It's so tempting that the numbers go up so much that
02:18:23people think there must be a political power behind it, a guarantee, so
02:18:26they say, "I'll put my money in too." Now, this is striking.
02:18:30The second thing is, Ms. Bilge, it's interesting, there are some names
02:18:33in workplaces, in factories,
02:18:37workers have also entered this business.
02:18:41In neighborhoods or in companies,
02:18:44their nicknames change. They call them "grandfather,"
02:18:47they call them something else. These are experts,
02:18:50that is, there is a network
02:18:53that acts as a broker, I say in quotation marks,
02:18:57a very large network, and this needs
02:19:01to be revealed. That is, they direct,
02:19:04not this, but this, not this, but this.
02:19:08There are expert brothers now in many areas.
02:19:12We need to look into this. We are pressing on it a bit.
02:19:15We spoke with a minimum wage earner again.
02:19:18We will report on these,
02:19:21emekli olmuş, asgari ücretle çalışıyor, emekli olmuş.
02:19:25emekli maaşını almış, bu işe
02:19:28girmiş ve emekli olarak devam ediyor
02:19:31işe, asgari ücretti olarak devam ediyor ve diyor ki, ne
02:19:34olacak yani, nasıl alacağız, sen ne
02:19:37düşünüyorsun diye sorduğumda, vallahi çöp olur diyor, yani alamayacağımızı
02:19:40biliyoruz diyor, yani nereye gidelim, hangi avukata gidelim, ne yapalım
02:19:44falan diye bir şey var, emeklilerde de aynısı
02:19:47var, eee şimdi bir diğer konu şu
02:19:50eee
02:19:54yani... güç
02:19:56varsa o zaman siyasi ayak ne? Süleyman
02:20:00Bey'in söylediği şey o, o çok önemli. Yani katılıyorum,
02:20:03organize suç örgütleri madem ilan ediliyor herhalde
02:20:06bu da organize bir suç ve onun bir örgütü olmalı, bir lideri, bir
02:20:10ağı, bir salkımüzüm gibi değil mi? Hiyerarşisi falan
02:20:14olmalı yani. E bunlar herhalde bürokrasiye
02:20:17gider. Yani ve, siyasete
02:20:21gider. Eee, bunlar açığa çıkarılmadan bir güven.
02:20:25ortamı olacağını düşünmüyor vatandaş, yani siyaseten böyle bir şey olmasa
02:20:28bizim paralar gitti diyor, yani sadece bu gözaltına alınanlar, çünkü
02:20:32şöyle söylüyorlar, yine örnek vereyim, eee
02:20:35ya şimdi eee... alan aldı, vuran vurdu, kaçan
02:20:39kaçtı, eee, bunlar zaten yurt dışına
02:20:42götürmüşlerdir, bizzat bu işi bilen bir iki kişiyle de görüştüm,
02:20:45tabanda sahada, ya diyor ki yani adrese gittiğinizde bir şey
02:20:49bulamazsınız, yani boş bir ofis bulursunuz orada, bunlar böyle
02:20:52organize oluyorlar, yani mala el koymak, hani mala el
02:20:56konsun, şey olsun, bunlar da sonuç almayabilir, orada
02:20:59peki tabii farklı şey var, yani burada şimdi
02:21:02sadece bu yöneticilerle sınır tuttuğunuzda çok doğru, ama şimdi
02:21:06tera'ye baktığınız. zaman sonuçta buradan gelen parayla bir sürü şey
02:21:09almış, levent'te koca göktelen var, Nişantaş'ın
02:21:13en değerli arazisini daha iki ay önce almış 2 milyar liraya,
02:21:16Finlandiya'da Bier Duver fabrikası almış, eee Almanya'da
02:21:20otel yaptırıyor, şimdi Dubai'ye
02:21:24finans şeyi var, para aktarmışsın, yani dolayısıyla
02:21:27eee sadece fonlarla sınırlı
02:21:30tutarsanız hani tamam sorun orada o ayrı onu
02:21:33SPK işini yapacak oradaki nasıl tasfiye edeceğini falan ama
02:21:37eğer... "siz burada bir suç bulmuşsanız suçtan
02:21:40elde edilen gelir sayılır hepsi dolayısıyla
02:21:43onunla satın alın konması lazım bütün onunla satın
02:21:46alınmış bütün mal varlığını bir kere devletin
02:21:50çıkartması lazım eğer bunu şey sayıyorsanız
02:21:54yok bunu manipülasyon borsa suçu
02:21:56hani bunun cezası zaten 3 yıl 5 yıl organize suç değil eğer
02:22:00ona girerseyman karapanın aklanması yasasıyla ilgilie
02:22:04tedbir tedbiri oradan uygulanması gerekiyor"
02:22:17Goods acquired two centuries before the crime date,
02:22:21two centuries. This means you don't have such a rule,
02:22:25so you can seize all of it. A stony field in Sivas.
02:22:29He hasn't even seen it himself, it's useless, but you still seize it.
02:22:33You conducted an "only fence operation" in Adana,
02:22:36in the district, you seized the house he bought for his mother,
02:22:39you seized people's motorcycles. This means you can do it.
02:22:42That's why I think the part about how funds are liquidated is separate.
02:22:46Experts explain those. If there is a crime here,
02:22:49the assets obtained from it should not only be about
02:22:53looking at people's houses and asking if they have money in the bank.
02:22:56No. You have two plots of land
02:22:59in the forests of Beykoz, you are trying to build a villa.
02:23:03You have built a villa in Spain, in Malaga.
02:23:07These exist, I see them. Does the state not see them?
02:23:09You need to seize
02:23:13all of them. Only then can
02:23:16that victimization be resolved. After all, there is a loss for the public here,
02:23:20a loss for the state, and many other losses.
02:23:24Let me just say one thing, I interrupted you, but there's no end to this.
02:23:28Look at the banker victims, the housing acquisition assistance victims,
02:23:31the franc victims, the İmkan Bank victims,
02:23:34the TOKİ victims, the İhlas victims, now
02:23:44there are many. When everything has its victims, it's not like the public should come and rescue it every time. You will then turn around and say,
02:23:48"How can such a thing happen?" In a country like this, for 40 years,
02:23:52can there be victimization from every sector? This is not
02:23:55an isolated incident. In this case,
02:23:58neither in any of these
02:24:00victims did those who caused
02:24:03this asset receive a proper punishment.
02:24:07For example, when there are TOKİ victims, you don't prosecute the TOKİ director. I would say
02:24:11that every function can be manipulated.
02:24:14Therefore, if you start with the premise that
02:24:18every function can be manipulated, we need to do this
02:24:21not just by applying punishment, not by imposing
02:24:25restrictions on certain people, but
02:24:28with a total mobilization. This mobilization needs to start from
02:24:32financial literacy, and institutions
02:24:35need to be established with autonomous structures
02:24:39that operate transparently and competently,
02:24:42and within an accountable structure.
02:24:45And you need to create an environment
02:24:48where citizens, with this financial literacy
02:24:51and with these financial institutions
02:24:54that are established, can act in a coordinated
02:24:58way to invest. Otherwise, I tell you,
02:25:01I have completed 36 years
02:25:05in this finance community. You ask people,
02:25:09"What is your risk profile?" They say, "I don't take risks,"
02:25:12for example. But
02:25:15when you tell them, "There is a stock
02:25:18or another financial investment tool with a potential
02:25:21to earn 70-80%, would you enter this?"
02:25:25they immediately ask, "What is it?"
02:25:29Their risk profile suddenly gets thrown
02:25:32to one side. We need to establish
02:25:36an institutional structure that can control this
02:25:38in some way. That is, it needs to be done
02:25:42in portfolio management companies. So, let me tell you,
02:25:45that's why I listed these victims. Victims have been emerging for 40 years.
02:25:49Today,
02:25:51a lady
02:25:53over 70 years old, a lady,
02:25:57I learned that she had a private portfolio
02:25:59management in a portfolio management
02:26:02company with over 90%
02:26:05stocks. She told me,
02:26:09and she doesn't know what's in it.
02:26:12Look, she doesn't know.
02:26:14So,
02:26:17you are 70 years old, someone recommended it to you,
02:26:21and you have no competence. By competence, I mean
02:26:25she doesn't know financial markets, she doesn't know financial
02:26:29instruments, she doesn't know what kind
02:26:32of risks financial instruments bring.
02:26:35For example, let me ask you, there is an instrument
02:26:38with an 85% annual return in dollar terms.
02:26:42Would you like to buy it tomorrow? Would you like to, Professor Semih?
02:26:46If I had dollars, I would. Look, Semih Bey immediately
02:26:49said he would.
02:26:52But he didn't ask about the risk. He didn't ask what he was buying.
02:26:54He says, "I want it." He doesn't know what he's going to buy.
02:26:58What is the risk here? Please call me tomorrow.
02:27:01I'll buy Vestel bonds.
02:27:05But the condition is, I don't have dollars.
02:27:08There's a small problem. There's a small problem.
02:27:12You can even have 100 dollars, of course, that's right.
02:27:15So, unfortunately, people cannot think of
02:27:19risk and return together. Professor Semih,
02:27:22I think the whole discussion comes down to
02:27:26both law and justice, and what's left
02:27:28of trust.
02:27:31It was just a couple of sentences, I apologize.
02:27:35So, because those who were affected
02:27:38increased, the TOKİ victims,
02:27:41the earthquake, what's the result?
02:27:44Are the victims still victims? I can only say the ground notes.
02:27:47The experts are here. What the citizens think is this:
02:27:50they say that unless they touch the political
02:27:54and bureaucratic side, nothing will happen.
02:27:57On Friday, excuse me,
02:28:00we had a broadcast with the co-chair of the DEM Party
02:28:04on İlk TV. While discussing this issue,
02:28:08he said that they called for an extraordinary
02:28:11parliamentary meeting. It's very important. So,
02:28:15there are two tendencies among these victims.
02:28:18First, will they wait for a doctor?
02:28:22There is an extraordinary situation. Can there be an extraordinary
02:28:26initiative? All political parties,
02:28:29the opposition, are united. Second, where do we go?
02:28:33Is there a center? Who will help us?
02:28:36We need a call center. Yes.
02:28:40So, I was going to ask Professor Semih, the discussion always comes down
02:28:44to the reputation of institutions.
02:28:46when trust in justice has decreased, how much is left of the reputation
02:28:50of institutions is another question mark.
02:28:54What do you say? Well, I try to articulate this
02:28:58repeatedly. As the saying goes,
02:29:01"all colors were dirtied, and white came first."
02:29:05We have many insights. We talk about so many
02:29:08social issues, in almost every field.
02:29:11This is not a single issue to solve,
02:29:15it's palliative. For example, a week ago,
02:29:19we talked about our family's safety operations.
02:29:22You always say, "solve violence against
02:29:25women," but unless you solve domestic violence,
02:29:29unless you solve the declining birth rates,
02:29:32unless you solve the hopelessness among youth,
02:29:36unless you solve femicides,
02:29:39you cannot solve the entire problem
02:29:42in one area with such palliative
02:29:45and athletic measures. Now, technical issues are being discussed
02:29:54here, which is very natural,
02:29:58but I disagree on one point: I don't think this is a technical
02:30:01problem. So, what we call economy,
02:30:04we're talking about economic policy,
02:30:08economy is a choice, it's your choices.
02:30:11My dear Bahadır Özgür just explained.
02:30:14We talked about pyramid schemes for a long time.
02:30:18We started with the Banker Victims, Kaselli,
02:30:22we talked about Sekil Erzan at length, what it is,
02:30:25what it isn't. This is not one or two incidents,
02:30:28it's constantly repeating. Today, it comes as a surprise
02:30:32to most. Maybe the experts
02:30:35in this field were expecting it, but for the public,
02:30:39such a thing emerging is a surprise.
02:30:43The cost of this is not to trivialize
02:30:46it, but it can certainly be solved.
02:30:50The victims' grievances can be addressed.
02:30:53But the real problem is the system.
02:30:56If these are your choices, if you base the economy
02:31:00on manipulative activities, speculative activities,
02:31:03or paper trading on the stock market,
02:31:07if there is no production economy, if there is no real industrialization,
02:31:10if there are no breakthroughs in agriculture,
02:31:13in general economic terms, they call it mobilization.
02:31:17Mobilization should be like this.
02:31:20Otherwise, I'm sure they know
02:31:23how to audit and what's going on
02:31:27much better than us. This is a statement
02:31:29made 10 months ago. I claim that
02:31:33the statement made 10 months ago is not a coincidence.
02:31:37There's something they describe as knowing that certain things
02:31:41are happening, and I also know
02:31:44that they made those statements through
02:31:47the warnings of experts." "So, I see a transfer of wealth there.
02:31:51After all, it's a change of hands of money under the mattress.
02:31:55And you look at the names. The previous speaker,
02:31:59Volde, just explained whose children
02:32:03they are. They seem to continue
02:32:06this as a family profession. As a result,
02:32:10they are favored, they are privileged.
02:32:13As we always say, they display their wealth
02:32:16as if putting on a show in front of the masses
02:32:20living in deep poverty. Those holdings,
02:32:23those very ostentatious lives,
02:32:26those huge sums of money, yes,
02:32:30all of these do not match
02:32:34the reality of life. I don't think this problem
02:32:38can be solved with the measures you will take
02:32:41regarding banking and finance.
02:32:44It is a political problem, and if a change
02:32:47is required to solve it,
02:32:51I think that political change must happen.
02:32:54Otherwise, with palliative measures,
02:32:58with athletic measures, you cannot solve it."
02:33:02For example, one of our viewers asked, "I bought the fund on September 15th,
02:33:05all this happened on September 16th. My savings will be gone
02:33:09in a few days. And those who got on
02:33:12the last wagon of this train will suffer the consequences
02:33:16of those who profited, as we just discussed."
02:33:20This has turned into a pyramid scheme. Because the last one
02:33:24to get on unfortunately loses.
02:33:26Unfortunately, we are not seeing this movie for the first time.
02:33:30Now, how will these
02:33:3531 funds be liquidated? Let's look at that.
02:33:38It's a question you're curious about. Now, Mr. Gençal,
02:33:42I will ask my friends to bring image number 13 to the screens.
02:33:46I will also invite Mr. Gençal
02:33:47to my side. A date was set, right?
02:33:51September 17th, 13:30.
02:33:54Yes. Now, it was said that
02:33:57those who gave a sell order before this date,
02:34:01at 13:29, would be prioritized.
02:34:05But there are many messages saying,
02:34:08"My order was canceled, the institutions concerned one by one
02:34:12to the notary, I am not a lawyer, but rather, as the son of a
02:34:15lawyer, to make the receivable due, a warning letter
02:34:19is needed from the notary. The logical sequence of what needs to be done
02:34:22is to send a warning letter from the notary with a document.
02:34:25This is very important information. Many viewers have written in. So, this
02:34:29question is for both of you and Mr. Bülbül. Now, a timetable
02:34:33or a roadmap for the liquidation of these funds
02:34:36has been set. Does this
02:34:39completely indicate a roadmap? For example, a question mark. As and to the relevant
02:34:42ones. Mr. Gencal stated
02:34:45earlier, in this sense, those who placed a sell order before
02:34:4813:30 and whose order was not accepted
02:34:52should immediately send a notification
02:34:56from the notary to the relevant institution, and also to whoever
02:35:00will liquidate these, a warning letter should be sent. But now,
02:35:04where will it be sent? Is there a legal roadmap in this sense?
02:35:07Mr. is absolutely right.
02:35:11A warning letter is needed from the notary to make the receivable
02:35:14due. The warning letter will be sent
02:35:17to the first lawyer for consultation.
02:35:20They will go to a lawyer, consult a lawyer,
02:35:24and then the lawyer friend will
02:35:27most likely, as Mr. Gen said, suggest sending a warning letter
02:35:31from the notary to make the receivable due. The warning letter
02:35:35will not be sent to a single place. The warning letter
02:35:38will be sent to both the committees that will carry out this liquidation
02:35:41and to whoever is the fund
02:35:45company manager. So, this transaction must be done. It is very
02:35:48important. Well, they will be prioritized
02:35:51if the sell orders were accepted, right, Mr. Genc?
02:35:55They will be prioritized. Those whose sell orders were accepted
02:35:59and then canceled must do this
02:36:03with the document they have.
02:36:05That is, "I gave this, it was accepted, but then
02:36:09it was canceled. With this document, I had given this,
02:36:13so I am sending such a warning letter,"
02:36:16of course, lawyers know the legal language much better. So, will they
02:36:20primarily receive the amount they invested
02:36:24or is it a question mark? Is it not clear how much they will receive?
02:36:27They will receive whatever the announced
02:36:30fund price was as of that day,
02:36:33in proportion to their shares. They should have the right to receive
02:36:36that amount. Who will pay this money? Who will pay
02:36:40the money? The
02:36:43portfolio management company that received the exit order
02:36:46and as a result sold the assets
02:36:49within the fund will pay from the fund. The fund
02:36:53will pay them. So,
02:36:56the institution that performs the liquidation will pay.
02:36:59That is, which institution will liquidate? That is,
02:37:03Isbank for Tera's funds,
02:37:06and Ziraat Bank for the other six portfolio management companies.
02:37:10I am wondering if this will remain as a burden on those banks
02:37:13or indirectly on the citizens.
02:37:17It should not remain a burden. After all,
02:37:20I gave the exit order. This
02:37:24exit order, whether T+1
02:37:28or T+2, as of that day,
02:37:32whatever the fund price was, I should receive
02:37:35the amount of fund shares I have multiplied by
02:37:39the unit value of the fund from that fund price.
02:37:43But I cannot say "I defaulted". The company said so.
02:37:46So, professor,
02:37:49where will the money come from? That's a separate legal process. These
02:37:53banks, by selling the shares and assets
02:37:56within that fund, it's not a bank, it's a portfolio management
02:37:59company. It sells assets. There's no such
02:38:02thing here. The portfolio management company will liquidate
02:38:06the funds. Those who will liquidate the funds will sell and pay. This
02:38:09thing we are talking about is a completely different thing, a wealth fund. So,
02:38:13you are saying, who will buy those shares in 3 months? When the price
02:38:17doesn't come out right, you know, there are times when the wealth fund
02:38:21was put into action. If such a possibility arises, because
02:38:24what will happen when no one buys these shares? Then,
02:38:28we start talking about the public. I don't want to talk about that
02:38:32at all, Mr. Bahadir, because when the public gets involved
02:38:35in this, yes, automatically, this damage will affect
02:38:3986 million people. Yes. Well, now,
02:38:43for those who gave instructions
02:38:45and whose orders were accepted until 13:30 on September 17th,
02:38:49such a process will operate. So, the question
02:38:52is, what will I do if I didn't give instructions until
02:38:5513:30 on September 17th? Then, as part of the liquidation
02:38:59process, the institutions you will be dealing with will again
02:39:03be Isbank and Ziraat Bank, because Isbank
02:39:06is the custodian institution for Tera Portfolio's funds,
02:39:10and for the other 7 portfolio management companies'
02:39:13funds...
02:39:45a loan was taken, that institution paid its debt, those treasury
02:39:49bonds became liquid, so there's no problem there.
02:39:52Was there any information given about the process? I mean, in how
02:39:55much time? Up to 3 months. The CMB said up to 3 months. Within
02:39:59a 3-month period, these will be liquidated. So, at what
02:40:02value? At what value will he get
02:40:04his money back? At what value?
02:40:08That is, the amount we mentioned,
02:40:11the 800 plus, how many billions was it,
02:40:14which increased from 237
02:40:17to 8258, that amount
02:40:21will eventually be returned
02:40:24to the market, supporting factoring,
02:40:27cherry mining, Özata,
02:40:30shipping, etc., etc. There are other shares
02:40:34besides these, especially liquid ones. So,
02:40:37in total, the stock market will experience a period
02:40:40of both volatility and selling pressure
02:40:44in the upcoming period. So, in this period, it is important
02:40:47to establish trust so that there are no sales
02:40:50in stocks and no selling pressure
02:40:54comes from other places. That's why I'm saying
02:40:57that in this business,
02:41:00yes, Isbank and Ziraat Bank should
02:41:04only be the custodian institutions,
02:41:07but if this liquidation process is done in this way,
02:41:10it will create great grievances for those
02:41:14remaining in the fund, and at the same time, for
02:41:17other funds holding shares in the stock market
02:41:21and other investors holding shares,
02:41:24this liquidation process
02:41:27needs to be investigated retrospectively to find
02:41:31out who profited from this and needs to be done based on
02:41:35sharing from them. That's why I'm saying
02:41:38that there should be a legal regulation
02:41:42for this issue. Well, Mr. Turan, I wanted to add something
02:41:46to your question. Fatih Altaylı's article was discussed
02:41:49a lot today. He says he spoke to a doyen of banking
02:41:53and states that this person said they would be lucky
02:41:56if they could get 10% of what they invested,
02:41:59especially for equity-heavy funds, right? For equity-heavy free funds,
02:42:03I agree. If they can get 10%,
02:42:07because similar processes have been experienced.
02:42:11The same thing happened in the banker scandal mentioned earlier.
02:42:14The bank and İmar Bank experienced
02:42:17the same things in the 2001 crisis, and the grievances were
02:42:21somehow remedied. Otherwise,
02:42:24people couldn't get their housing savings
02:42:28fund money deducted from their own money for years.
02:42:31The question is, how will the liquidation process be? Mr. Gencal explained,
02:42:35but there are other questions. How will investors in the funds
02:42:38get their money back? Who was auditing these funds, and who
02:42:42will pay the damage? These are the main questions we are wondering about.
02:42:46These questions are still
02:42:48being asked in our minds.
02:42:51The answer is, we are talking, but there is no clear answer.
02:42:55It's not possible to give one.
02:42:59We have 8 minutes. We had
02:43:02a visual prepared about the funds. We will ask my friends to bring
02:43:05visual number 10. Now, Mr. Gençal just stated,
02:43:09that is, the risk perception of investors.
02:43:12If we can get visual number 10,
02:43:15friends, the visuals we put side by
02:43:18side. So, who takes risks and how?
02:43:22Or what do they think they are taking? What would
02:43:25you say about what investors
02:43:27should look at in the next period? I
02:43:30divided the investor's risk profile
02:43:33into 4. You can also make it 5 or
02:43:367, but the investor needs to ask
02:43:39themselves, "Which risk profile am I in?"
02:43:43and honestly answer it to themselves,
02:43:46so that in the next period,
02:43:49regarding the investments they will make, because I receive
02:43:53a lot of questions about this, from 20-year-olds
02:43:56to people in their 40s and 50s. Now,
02:44:00if I am conservative, if
02:44:03I am 20 years old and conservative,
02:44:07then I'm finished. What does this mean? It's not conservative
02:44:11in the usual sense, right? Here, financially, I will
02:44:14make sure my principal is okay, I want a small return
02:44:17against inflation, I don't want a higher return,
02:44:21for a very cautious attitude. So, the conservative side here
02:44:25is actually...
02:44:30someone who has retired, who has a small pension,
02:44:34someone who is an minimum wage earner
02:44:37and retired, who should not take risks.
02:44:41Yes, our 20-year-old friend has started working and
02:44:45earns a certain amount of money every month.
02:44:48I don't think they have the ability to save
02:44:52a portion of this money right now,
02:44:55but it is very
02:44:58important that they can direct whatever they save
02:45:02to the right place. That's why
02:45:05it's very important to allocate it to funds
02:45:08that match their investment
02:45:10risk profile. What are these
02:45:14funds? I mean,
02:45:18if my risk profile is very low,
02:45:21and if I look at it in terms of
02:45:24investment, if I am 30-35
02:45:28years old, I can buy short-term
02:45:31bonds, government bonds, or medium-term bonds, but
02:45:35if I am over 65, it means I should not invest
02:45:38anywhere beyond liquid funds. If
02:45:41I am 20 years old and can truly take
02:45:45a high risk, I can invest in a fund
02:45:49that holds 95%-97% stocks.
02:45:53Now, there is something very important
02:45:56I want to say here. That important thing
02:45:59is this: Please,
02:46:03let's not put all portfolio management companies
02:46:06in the same basket. Let's not.
02:46:09Because there are many independent portfolio
02:46:12management companies that do their job morally
02:46:16and properly. What investors
02:46:19should do here is actually go to
02:46:22that portfolio management company and get information
02:46:25about "how their investment
02:46:28processes are done and how their
02:46:31decision-making processes are done." If they
02:46:35say, "I have an investment
02:46:38committee that meets once a week, their
02:46:42decisions are written down, and after these
02:46:45decisions are written down, according to the risk profiles
02:46:48mentioned, for each fund, they make decisions
02:46:52with a transparent decision-making mechanism, investing
02:46:55in liquid assets, liquid shares. By liquid shares,
02:46:58I don't mean the adventurous shares we just talked about,
02:47:02creating added value by investing in these places,"
02:47:05then they can go to these portfolio
02:47:08management companies. Okay, thank you very much.
02:47:12I'll take Mr. Gencal's place, director. How many minutes do I have left?
02:47:16Now, Mr. Gencal stated that we have 4 minutes. Uğur
02:47:20Gürses has a post, if my friends can bring that up, please.
02:47:24Now, in this period, of course, the social media
02:47:27that young people follow, as Bahadır Özgür and our other guests
02:47:31stated, both on the X platform and through Telegram groups,
02:47:34many people who give investment advice under the name of "phenomenon",
02:47:38who explain how to invest in which stock,
02:47:42have actually been influential
02:47:45in the rise of these stocks.
02:47:48Bahadır Özgür, but on the other hand, there are also names
02:47:52whose social media accounts have been banned
02:47:55because they asked questions. One of them is Uğur
02:47:59Gürses. Uğur Gürses is also an important figure. Uğur Gürses
02:48:03is one of the last people to be accused of manipulation.
02:48:05Everyone knows this.
02:48:08I know him well. He is a financial expert who started
02:48:12at the central bank. He is
02:48:15a very valuable economist who knows financial
02:48:18markets and the economy very well. Look what he says:
02:48:22"Today, September 16th, the Istanbul 1st Criminal Peace Court issued
02:48:26a decision to block access to this post I made on X.
02:48:29The X platform has not yet implemented this decision. I ask,
02:48:33is there a criminal investigation? What was objectionable about
02:48:36saying this and requesting that the State Supervisory
02:48:40Council investigate this fund scandal? Even those who manipulated
02:48:43the funds should be dealt with
02:48:47as quickly as this blocking decision was made," says Uğur Gürses.
02:48:51Now, of course, I won't read the tweet
02:48:54that was blocked, but he is right
02:48:57in this respect: If
02:49:00public officials, the bureaucrats, have a crime
02:49:04in this, the institution that will audit this,
02:49:07as we talked about for hours, is the State Supervisory Council.
02:49:11The State Supervisory Council acts at the request of the President.
02:49:15It can conduct investigations and audits on any matter, but
02:49:18especially if there is a problem in public institutions. This has
02:49:21always been the case. Uğur Gürses said that the rules are applied here. If
02:49:25you are talking about the CMB, other bureaucrats,
02:49:28and even the judiciary involved in this matter,
02:49:31as we are saying and discussing, only the State Supervisory
02:49:35Council can audit it. He showed
02:49:38the right place, the right address. He showed
02:49:42an institution affiliated with the President. Uğur Gürses didn't say
02:49:46that an institution from outside Turkey. He actually
02:49:49summarized what we talked about for hours
02:49:52in five lines here. Of course,
02:49:54he also asked a question. They say there's no reason not
02:49:58to ask questions. But look, we later learn how those judges
02:50:02made the blocking decisions, didn't they? Some
02:50:05judges were tried in the HSK and removed
02:50:08from their duties. 1500 with one signature,
02:50:122000 with one signature, the same thing is done.
02:50:15What we are saying is this: This Tera issue is not
02:50:18just a fund issue, it's not limited to funds.
02:50:22By blocking this, you are increasing
02:50:25the suspicion even more. You already blocked what was
02:50:28written about Tera, you kept blocking it, and
02:50:32then the Tera scandal came out. Now,
02:50:34if you start blocking even those who discuss it
02:50:37reasonably, then people start to wonder. While
02:50:41some are investigating, are others trying to cover it up?
02:50:44While some are trying to direct the matter to the right
02:50:48address, are others trying to mislead and confuse the issue?
02:50:51We have experienced this many times. Let me just say one thing and finish.
02:50:55I'm going to a commercial. No operation has been concluded
02:50:59legally, starting from Can Holding until today. It's very important.
02:51:02This past two years, a country needs to ask
02:51:05about this. All of these were greatly debated. Perhaps
02:51:09it will take a little longer here because there are many victims,
02:51:12but I think this would be a much riskier,
02:51:16more dangerous thing. Thank you very much to economist
02:51:19and financial analyst Ömer Rıfat Gençal. Thank you for taking the time.
02:51:22Thank you. We will now take a break.
02:51:26"Söz Sende" will continue.
02:51:41Turkey's energy pulse
02:51:44Orbus.
02:51:52Even as time passes, the value of gold at Koçak
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02:55:43What will happen with my donation? What
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02:57:07Turkey's taste, Sarıyer Cola Presents.
02:57:21Trabzonspor won against Galatasaray with 4 goals.
02:57:23I congratulate Trabzonspor,
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02:57:53Turkey's taste, Sarıyer Cola
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02:58:26Mahmut Arıkan, Chairman of the Felicity Party, one of the
02:58:30most talked-about politicians of recent times,
02:58:33is a guest on Halk TV's "Gün Doğarken" with Deniz Bayramoğlu.
02:58:36What did he mean by saying, "I am not a politician
02:58:39who says I will not come together with the People's Alliance"?
02:58:42Will he join the People's Alliance? How does he
02:58:45view the Mecca agreement? What does the Ankara
02:58:48Table he proposed mean?
02:58:51What does he think about the process
02:58:54called "Terror-Free Turkey" and the allegations of a villa
02:58:57for Öcalan in İmralı? Deniz Bayramoğlu asks.
02:59:01"He answers in
02:59:05'Gün Doğarken'."
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03:00:09"Söz Sende" continues on Halk TV after a short break.
03:00:12Of course, there are many hot topics on the agenda.
03:00:16The political agenda is also like that.
03:00:19We will discuss them too. A constitution is inevitable
03:00:22for Turkey. So, who says this?
03:00:25President Erdoğan's chief advisor, Mehmet Uçum, continues to make
03:00:29headlines with his statements, articles, and social media
03:00:33posts, as you will remember
03:00:35that brought the new constitution
03:00:43from last time. Look what he says now in his statements
03:00:48debates and the 50+1 rule back to the agenda: "The strong
03:00:52and more accurate rule system to be developed with the new
03:00:55constitution will provide many opportunities for Turkey to rise within the law and
03:00:59with the support of the law." Turkey, as the subject
03:01:02of a great march, starts a great march.
03:01:05The new Constitution will be the driving
03:01:09force of this great march.
03:01:12It is the duty of all of us to crown
03:01:15our Republic with a new and civilian constitution.
03:01:19This is not anyone's personal matter. It is a national
03:01:22issue for all of us. When the Grand National
03:01:26Assembly of Turkey makes the new constitution at
03:01:29the latest in its 29th
03:01:30term, the new constitution
03:01:33will be accepted with a very high percentage of votes
03:01:37in the mandatory popular vote," he says. This is
03:01:41actually very important. Every line brings a new
03:01:45question to mind. I will ask my esteemed how will a constitution be
03:01:48presented to the public for approval?
03:01:51If it is presented, what will the citizen say,
03:01:54as Mehmet Uçum stated? How will the parliament
03:01:58act? These are all questions that come to mind.
03:02:02But on the other hand, it says,
03:02:05"A new constitution will provide a great opportunity
03:02:08for Turkey to rise within the law and with
03:02:12the support of the law." Therefore, after this statement, I
03:02:15would immediately like to ask the lawyer and deputy.
03:02:19What do you say? Mehmet Uçum says Turkey is starting
03:02:23a new march.
03:02:24This constitution.
03:02:27This constitution is the Constitution of the Republic
03:02:30of Turkey. The Constitution of the Republic of Turkey consists of 177 articles.
03:02:34So, the constitution is on the shelf right now.
03:02:37They have put the constitution on the shelf. For example, just now, a decision
03:02:41was made regarding Uğur Gürses regarding
03:02:45the blocking of access. Who made the decision? Istanbul
03:02:481st Criminal Peace Court. What decision did it make?
03:02:52The State Supervisory Council should carry out operations
03:02:54regarding these funds, he made a statement on X.
03:02:58He used his freedom of expression. What did he say?
03:03:02He said, "Remove access immediately." Why is he removing access?
03:03:05There is no crime here. There is nothing that targets
03:03:09anyone's interests. There is a public request, Uğur Gürses.
03:03:12But the criminal peace judge made a decision to block
03:03:16access. Where is the reasoned
03:03:18decision? Article 141 of the unimplemented constitution.
03:03:21Court decisions must be reasoned. Now I ask
03:03:25to the judge who made
03:03:28the decision to block access in Istanbul 1st Criminal
03:03:31Peace Court, on what legal grounds did you
03:03:35decide to block access to Uğur Gürses's statement
03:03:38regarding the State Supervisory Council's call to duty?
03:03:42This is not being implemented. The constitution is in
03:03:4514 booklets. Yes.
03:03:50For example, I'm giving
03:03:53an example. The news about Özlem Çerçioğlu, who got
03:03:56344.3 votes by usurping the national
03:04:00will and became the Metropolitan Mayor of Aydın, switching to the AK Party,
03:04:04and whose husband's factory
03:04:07provided Toga rims,
03:04:10was immediately decided by the criminal peace
03:04:13court to be blocked. On what legal
03:04:16grounds did you decide to block access? The
03:04:20unimplemented constitution. Article 26, freedom of expression.
03:04:23Article 28, freedom of the press. The public's
03:04:27right to information. Article 2 of the constitution is
03:04:31clear: "The Republic of Turkey is a secular, social,
03:04:34and democratic state based on human rights." So,
03:04:37rights written in the constitution, the right to assembly, demonstration,
03:04:40and march, freedom of organization, freedom of expression,
03:04:44and many other rights like
03:04:48these. While there are many
03:04:50applications
03:04:53that violate the constitution that you have made
03:04:56outside of the rule of law regarding freedom
03:05:00to form trade unions, freedom to form associations,
03:05:03freedom of the press, freedom of information,
03:05:06and freedom to seek justice, the right to a
03:05:09fair trial, and personal liberty, while you are
03:05:12keeping the constitution on the shelf, you are
03:05:15not implementing the decisions
03:05:18of the Constitutional Court, even though Article 153
03:05:21of the constitution states that the decisions of the
03:05:25Constitutional Court are binding on legislative, executive, and
03:05:28judicial bodies and legal persons from the date
03:05:31of their publication in the Official Gazette. You say you do not
03:05:35recognize the decisions of the European Court
03:05:38of Human Rights, you do not implement them.
03:05:41You do not implement the constitution. And then Mr. Uçum, the head
03:05:45of the institution responsible for legal policies of
03:05:48the Palace, comes out and talks about a
03:05:52civilian democratic constitution. First, implement the constitution.
03:05:55Implement the right to liberty in the constitution,
03:05:59implement the right to security in the constitution,
03:06:03do not hinder freedom of expression, apply judicial
03:06:05independence, judicial impartiality, and fair trial rights,
03:06:09and then come out and talk about a
03:06:12civilian constitution. Leave dual law aside. Then
03:06:16come out and talk about a new constitution.
03:06:20As I said, this is a look-at-the-acrobat situation. I always say,
03:06:23in the European Court of Human Rights, we
03:06:26are first in human rights violation cases.
03:06:30We are first in violation cases. Despite
03:06:33the ECtHR decisions, Kavala and Demirtaş have been
03:06:37in prison for 10 years. According to Article
03:06:4090 of the Constitution, international agreements should
03:06:43be applied according to national law. The ECtHR
03:06:47is a court decision that we must obey due
03:06:50to an international agreement. Why don't you apply
03:06:53it? He said, "We will leave if necessary." Now,
03:06:57the Constitutional Court decision regarding Tayfun Kahraman,
03:07:01which was issued 6 months ago, for retrial
03:07:04not been published in the Official Gazette. The
03:07:07President of the Constitutional Court has come out and said,
03:07:11"If we have made a mistake, we
03:07:14will correct it." Publish it, Mr. President, publish
03:07:17it. Tayfun Kahraman's child, Vera,
03:07:20has not seen her
03:07:22father for 4 years.
03:07:25Then they come out and talk about law,
03:07:28democracy, and freedoms. Dual legal system. As
03:07:32we just said, there is a problem of
03:07:36democracy in Turkey, there is a problem of
03:07:39freedoms in Turkey, there
03:07:41tweet atana eee gazeteciye,
03:07:45akademisyene ve muhaliflere yönelik ikili
03:07:48hukukla e düşman hukuku uygulanıyor, işte
03:07:5215,5 milyon dayanışma oyuyla bizim
03:07:55cumhurbaşkanı adayımız Ekrem imamoğlu 19 Mart yargı darbesiyle şu
03:07:59anda cezaevinde. 18 aydan beri tutsak,
03:08:01tutsak, tel tel dökülen bir IBB
03:08:05iddianamesi, itirafçılar özür diliyor,
03:08:09hakkını helal et diyor duruşmalarda,
03:08:12belge yok, bilgi yok, ama bazıları var, rozet
03:08:15takıyor, rozetle aklanıyor,
03:08:18rozetle aklananlar var şu anda, e bu durumda çıkmış
03:08:21sayın Mehmet Uçum burada konuşuyor, yeni anayasa büyük
03:08:25büyük yürüyüşün itici gücü olacaktır, bir de diyor ki
03:08:28cumhuriyetimize yeni'. anayasayla taçlandırmak hepimizin vazifesi
03:08:32olacaktır diyor, milli meseleymiş, bu uçum
03:08:35denilen zat bundan daha önce, bundan geçen
03:08:38sene milli yargıdan bahsetti biliyor musunuz, milli yargı,
03:08:42ya yargı, milli yargı diye bir şey olabilir mi? Avrupa İnsan Hakları
03:08:45Sözleşmesi, Uluslararası insan Hakları sözleşmeleri, ahim,
03:08:49yani insan hakları ve insan onurunun tüm
03:08:52dünyada her yerde yargı bağımsızlığı,
03:08:56yargı tarafsızlığı, uluslararası belgelerle ee desteklenmektedir.
03:09:01"insanlar arasında ayrım olabilir mi? Anayasa ona göre insanlar arasında ayrım
03:09:05yapabilir miyiz? eşit olarak
03:09:07uygulanmak zorunda. açıdan burada
03:09:10çıkmış,
03:09:12Türkiye büyük yürüyüşe başlıyormuş, daha bu büyük yürüyüşü 25 yıldan beri
03:09:16başlayamadık, yargıda başlayamadık, cezaevleri
03:09:19dolu, 500 bin kişi cezaevinde, infaz düzenlemeleri
03:09:23yapılıyor, haksız, hukuksuz, eşitliksiz, pandemi
03:09:26döneminde, yarısı cezaevinde, yarısı dışarıda.
03:09:30"evet ekonomide başlayamadık ekonomide Bahadır
03:09:34Bey'in de söylediği gibi devamlı zedeciler çıkıyor, zedeciler çıkıyor,
03:09:37en son fzedeler çıktı, ekonominin
03:09:40geldiği noktada Türkiye'de şu anda Türkiş'in ağustos
03:09:44ayı araştırmasına göre 38.278 lir
03:09:47olan açlık sınırının altında 78.75
03:09:51lira asgari ücrette çalışan milyonlarca insan
03:09:53var, geçen hafta Kütahya'ya gittim, yeni
03:09:57parti olarak tüm 91 millet'.
03:10:02iz olarak biz tüm Türkiye'ye de illeri dolaşıyoruz, Kütahya görevime gittim, Kütahya Pazarında bir baktım
03:10:06elinde çay e dağıtan bir tane yaşlı
03:10:10amcamız, amca dedim, sen kaç yaşındasın? 71 yaşındayım
03:10:13dedi, sen emekli misin, emekliyim, ne kadar alıyorsun, 22.000
03:10:17lira alıyorum dedi, 15.000 lira kiraya veriyorum, geri kalan 5.000 lirayı
03:10:21da yok doğalgaz, yok elektrik, yasu parası veriyorum, nasıl geçiniyorsun, işte
03:10:25oğlum dedi, 71 yaşından sonra beni burada çay
03:10:28sattıran düzene. yazıklar olsun dedi, yani
03:10:32geldiğimiz nokta bu, geldiğimiz noktada ekonomi duvara
03:10:35çarpmış, eğitim eğitime başladık, eski Türkiye'de
03:10:39barınma sorunu yoktu, şu anda emekli olanın da barınma
03:10:43sorunu var, şu anda üniversiteleri kazananların da barınma sorunu
03:10:47var. İtü'ye kazanmış kızımızın babası beni
03:10:50arıyor, yurt diyor. Allah razı olsun Ekrem imamoğlu'dan, 18
03:10:54aydan beri tussak olan Ekrem imamoğlu'dan 2019'da geldi,
03:10:57büyükşehir belediye başkanı oldu, 25'e yakın. Kız yurdu açtı
03:11:01yani barınma sorunu, gelecekle ilgili
03:11:04kaygıları gençlerin, yargıda adalet yok, adalet çığlıkları her tarafta
03:11:08adaletçikları var, yani
03:11:11gelinen noktada sağlık sağlık sağlıkta
03:11:14işte geçenlerde de anlattım, sağlık şu
03:11:17anda yani kadar büyük sorun teşkil ediyor ki,
03:11:20giden doktorlarımızın, yurt dışına giden doktorlarımızın eee
03:11:24yani sayısı hızlı artmakta, artık çoğu
03:11:27yerlerde kalp doktoru yok, çok. yerde
03:11:30ortopedist yok, yani çoğu yerlerde doktor
03:11:33yok, doktor yok, yani binalar
03:11:36yapılıyor, hocam doğru söylediniz, hep
03:11:39birinciyiz, her hep birinciyiz,
03:11:42büyük, en büyük atleyi biz yapıyoruz, içinde adalet olmayan atleyi,
03:11:46içeride içinde yargı olmayan adliyeyi, yargı bağımsız olmayan adliyeyi,
03:11:50adalet çığlıkları sokaklarda geziyor, en büyük
03:11:53sadı biz yapıyoruz, içinde içinde
03:11:56yani gene zededen bahsedeceğim yani bahis.
03:12:05yani en büyükleri yapmakla, adliyeler yapmakla, statlar
03:12:08yapmakla, büyük binalar yapmakla bu memlekette
03:12:11adalet sağlanmıyor, sokaktaki vatandaş iş, aş,
03:12:15ekmek diyor, şimdi emekliğe getirilecek, her zaman
03:12:18söylüyorum, yeni zamlarla emekliye seçim sattı maline
03:12:21girildi, getirilecek şeyle, ne olacak, emekli diyor ki evimde diyor
03:12:25işsiz oğlum var diyor, kızım var diyor, torunuma para veremiyorum
03:12:28diyor. ne olacak bunun hesabını diyor ki
03:12:31vatandaş sokakta, meydanda, biz yeni parti milletvekili olarak
03:12:35sağdayız, sandığı bekliyoruz diyor, sandık geldiği
03:12:39zaman bu kara düzeni değiştireceğiz ve...
03:12:42Mehmet Uçum gibi, Mehmet Uçum gibi yok
03:12:46Türkiye'de yoksulluk, yoksunluk yasaklar varken
03:12:49çıkıp da anayasa gelecek, anayasa geldiği zaman enflasyon %10'a mı inecek,
03:12:53anayasa geldiği zaman demokrasi mi gelecek, anayasa geldiği zaman
03:12:57cezaevlerindeki ikili hukuk mu ortadan kalkacak, bu anayasa
03:13:00raftayken, bu anayasadaki hak ve özgürlükleri
03:13:03uygulamıyorken bu eee
03:13:05sarayın
03:13:07açıklamalarını yapanların hiçbir samimiyeti yoktur, peki şimdi
03:13:11sandığı. diyor sayın Bülbül o sandık ne zaman gelecek işte
03:13:15bu açıklamayı yapan yeni anayasa kaçınılmazdır diyen Mehmet
03:13:19Uçum hatırlayacaksınız geçtiğimiz günlerde de seçimin tarihini
03:13:22vermişti 18 özür diliyorum 16
03:13:26nisan 2028 tarihini işaret etmişti
03:13:29cumhurbaşkanlığı hükümet sistemine geçişimizin de bir
03:13:31tarihidir yıldönümüdür dolayısıyla
03:13:34sembolik bir anlamı vardır eee cumhurbaşkanı
03:13:37erdoğan sayın Erdoğan da son kez aday olacaktır demişti şimdi
03:13:40açıklaması konuşulurken
03:13:43bir de bu eklendi ben şimdi kıymetli konuklarıma döneyim
03:13:45eee sayın Turan'a sorayım sonra Sayın Akdeniz'e gideyim
03:13:49hava gibi su gibi bizim anayasaya mı ihtiyacımız var aş
03:13:53iş ekmek diyor Sayın Bülbül yani yurttaşdan gelen
03:13:56sesler doğrultusunda ne dersiniz şöyle şimdi
03:13:59eee Mehmet Uçum'un yaptığı açıklamaları aslında
03:14:03dikkatle okumak gerekiyor hani eee
03:14:06çünkü sonuç itibariyle bir kıvılcım bir
03:14:10ipucu biz eğer. "akp bir strateji yapıyorsa,
03:14:14saraydan bir strateji yapılıyorsa, aslında bunun
03:14:17ilk belirtilerini Mehmet Uçum'un açıklamalarından görebiliyoruz,
03:14:21şimdi eee biz tabii en klasik sorumuz
03:14:24vatandaşa sorduğumuzda en önemli sorumuz nedir
03:14:27dediğimizde sıralama yaptın ekonomi zaten açık ara
03:14:31birinci hemen peşine işte eğitim geliyor,
03:14:34sağlık geliyor, adalet geliyor, hatta adalet şu anda ekonomiden
03:14:38sonra hemen geliyor eee
03:14:40anayasadır bizim sorunumuz diyen bir vatandaşa henüz
03:14:43rastlamadık yani çok eee çok da doğal
03:14:46değil gerçi hani normal vatandaşın seçmen yani adalet ve kalkınma
03:14:50partisi seçmeni MHP çünkü Semih Turan bir aynı zamanda
03:14:53kamuoyu araştırmacısı olarak yani elbette o
03:14:57soru sorduğunuz kişiler arasında Adalet ve Kalkınma
03:15:00Partisi'ne MHP'ye oy veren seçmen de var onlar da mı demiyor yani biz yeni
03:15:04anayasa istiyoruz yok demiyorlar onların da hatta eee
03:15:07problemi onların da çok farklı değil sonuçta
03:15:10yaşamla ilgili problemler. parti aidiyetinden bağımsız olarak
03:15:14aynı, yani onlar ekonomide çok büyük sıkıntı yaşıyorlar,
03:15:17onlar ya sonuçta tabii ki eee Türkiye'de
03:15:21hep örneklerini veriyoruz, o gelir adaletsizliğinden dolayı sosyal
03:15:24sınıflarla iktidarın bağının hep zayıfladığını ama
03:15:28burada benim ilgimi çeken eee birkaç
03:15:32sözcük var eee ilk defa aslında daha doğru kural sistem
03:15:36diyor yani sistemden
03:15:38bahsediyor eee biz işte eee
03:15:41sorularımızdan... de vatandaşa sorularımızdan biri
03:15:44cumhurbaşkanlığı hükümet sistemi mi yoksa parlamenter sistemi
03:15:47mi yeğlersiniz diye eee üçte iki
03:15:50oranında parlamenter sistem yanıtı alıyoruz bu çok
03:15:54uzun zamandır böyle yani bunun aslında tek kırıldığı
03:15:58dönem o 2017 referandumudu da
03:16:01kırıldı mı kırılmadı mı hala tartışılıyor işte mühürsüz
03:16:04oylarla elbette ya sonuçta o zaman
03:16:07da eee 2017'ye giderken de eee çok fazla
03:16:11öyle bu sistemi de destekleyen yoktu ama belli stratejilerle
03:16:15bunu başarabiliyorlar. ben şunu iddia ediyordum uzun süredir yani
03:16:19ben eee bizim projeksiyonlarımızda eee
03:16:22cumhurbaşkanlığı hükümet sistemi ile gideceğimiz son seçim
03:16:26budur 2023 için söylüyorum ya ben
03:16:29cumhurbaşkanlığı hükümet sistemi ile tekrar bir seçime
03:16:33gideceğimizi düşünmeyenlerdenim hala bunu söylüyorum nedeni şu
03:16:36eee iktidarın anayasa değişikliği
03:16:39de yapacak olsa sistem değişikliği de yapacak olsa. "asıl derdi,
03:16:43asıl muradının en azından bir dönem
03:16:46daha önümüzdeki seçimleri atlatmak oldu,
03:16:49sayın Erdoğan'ın da ifadesi var o anlamda ya bu seçimleri atlatmak
03:16:53diye bakıyor, şimdi onlar da son ana kadar seçim
03:16:57sattı maaline girilene kadar bunu çok fazla
03:16:59dillendirmediler, çünkü hep eee
03:17:02şeydir, hani bir beklentileri var, çözülür, halk desteğini alırız,
03:17:06toplumsa rızayı sağlar, o anlamda birçok adım attılar,
03:17:09strateji diye tanımladıkları kanliklerin birçok." adımları var
03:17:13hem uluslararası konjonktürde, hem Türkiye konjonktüründe, ama
03:17:16gördükleri bir sonuç var, olmuyor, yani
03:17:19toplumsal desteği o halk desteğini alamıyorlar ve gidilecek
03:17:23seçimlerde azından bu sistemin en
03:17:26önemli parametresi olan Cumhurbaşkanlığını kazanma
03:17:28şansları yok denecek kadar zayıf, bunu
03:17:32gördüklerinde o pragmatik siyaset yapma
03:17:35tarzıyla sistemi muhalefete parlamenter
03:17:38sistemi gelin konuşalım önerisi yapılacağını düşünüyorum ben uzun.
03:17:43zamandır hı hı,
03:17:46bunun nedeni de şu eee, çünkü ekonomide en ufak bir düzelme yok,
03:17:50hani adalet anlamında veya beklentiler anlamında, insanların
03:17:53talepleri anlamında bir şey yok. bir de şunu merak ediyorum, öyle
03:17:56noktalayayım, bir anayasa komisyonu kurdular kendi
03:17:59içlerinde ve başında da en azından içinde de
03:18:03diyeyim, sedap yazıcı Özbudun var, altılı
03:18:06masada güçlendirilmiş parlamenter sistemin
03:18:10aslında mimarı, hatta yazanı, kaleme
03:18:13alanı diye nitelendirebiliriz, 10 kişilik mi 11 kişilik bir
03:18:16komisyon, buradan su sızmıyor, yani burada ne
03:18:20çalışılıyor, yaklaşık 1 yıl oldu, bir yıldır bir anayasa
03:18:23üzerinde çalışıldığını biliyor. gündeme
03:18:34gelebileceğini hatta birtakım eee
03:18:38videolar gördük hani Serhap Yazıcının sayın
03:18:41Erdoğan'la ilgili söylediği bazı şeylerikan önce
03:18:45evet ya ben bütün bunlarla beraber hani bu ekim
03:18:49ayında meclis açılmasıyla birlikte eee
03:18:52muhalefete yönelik bu yalnızca yeni parti. değil tabii ki
03:18:55den parti de var bunun içinde diğer bileşenler de var onlarla
03:18:59beraber gelin şu sistemi oturup konuşalım
03:19:02önerisinin anayasa değişikliği ile beraber gireceğini
03:19:05düşünüyorum çok boş bir açıklama olmadığım şimdi bu açıklamada Mehmet
03:19:09Uçum aynı zamanda eee yani cumhurbaşkanlığı sisteminin korunacağını da
03:19:13söylüyor bir de 50 + 1 vurgusu da
03:19:17önemli onu da söyleyelim şimdi 50 + 1 kuralı halka rağmen
03:19:20değiştirilemez diyor eee yani bunu bir iyi kırmızı çizgi
03:19:24olarak ee koyuyor şimdi 50 + 1 baktığımızda
03:19:26eee şu dönemde Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan da
03:19:30dahil olmak üzere 50 + 1'e ulaşamayacağını bütün
03:19:34araştırmalar söylüyorsa eğer o zaman
03:19:36uçum acaba bu açıklamasıyla ne demek istiyor
03:19:40sorusu akla geliyor ne dersiniz sayın Akdeniz evet valla şimdi iki
03:19:43sütun üstüne oturtuyor ben de çok dikkatli inceledim bir
03:19:46başkanlık yani bunun güçlendirilmesi 50 + 1'den
03:19:50tabiz vermeyiz ve terörsüz Türkiye iki ana
03:19:53sütunumuz bu diyor buradan. ilerleyeceğiz diyor, şimdi orada
03:19:56eee 2053 ve 2071 referansı var yine
03:20:00yani istanbul'un fethi ve Malazgirt
03:20:03referanslarıyla daha önce de söylenen Cumhur Ittifakının söylediği
03:20:07referanslar var ve ısrarla birkaç eee kez Cumhur
03:20:10İttifakı vurgusu var ya böyle
03:20:13anayasa en geniş toplumsal sözleşme diyoruz ya hiç
03:20:17öyle en geniş bir toplumsal
03:20:20mutabakat arzusu yok. Cumhur Ittifakının gücünün
03:20:23pekişeceği bir. sisteminin de daha da
03:20:27güçlendirileceği bir sistem olarak okuyorum ben biraz Semih hocamdan ayrılıyorum
03:20:30orada tabii o daha eee dikkatli izliyor dinliyorum da kulak da
03:20:34veriyorum şimdi bir de şöyle bir şey var eee şöyle
03:20:38bir ayrım koyuyor liberal serbestlik diyor tırnak içine
03:20:42almış onu eee ve karşısına milli perspektifi
03:20:45koyuyor ne demek liberal serbestlik yani
03:20:48demokrasi özgürlük diyen eee bugün
03:20:51muhalefet eden hükümete itiraz edenleri
03:20:55"küreselciler, küreselciler kalıbına sokuyor, yani
03:20:59küreselciler dediğimde düşmanlaştırıyor, sizin
03:21:02bağlantılarınız dışarıda, biz sizin ne olduğunuzu biliyoruz, mealen
03:21:05söylüyorum, bunun karşısına ne koyuyor, milli perspektif deyince
03:21:09kendi mahallesini ya da kendi kutuplaştırdığı toplumu koyuyor, burada
03:21:13da bir geniş mutabakat zemini ben
03:21:16göremiyorum, şimdi o zaman ne oluyor, yani benim okumam
03:21:20şu, bilge hanım eee seçime
03:21:22seçimin eee sonra..." bir hikaye yazarak girmek
03:21:26istiyor iktidar nedir o hikaye?
03:21:29yani 3 y hani yasaklar, yolsuzluk, yolsuzluğa, yoksulluğa
03:21:33karşı mücadele ile geldi ya, bu çöktü yani burada hiç mesafe
03:21:37yok, seçime gidiyor, eee
03:21:40is a problem of dual law in Turkey,
03:21:43there is a problem of implementing hostile
03:21:46law against journalists, academics, and dissidents
03:21:50who are opponents of the palace and tweet
03:21:54against it. Our presidential candidate, Ekrem İmamoğlu,
03:21:58who received 15.5 million votes of solidarity,
03:22:01is currently in prison due to the judicial
03:22:05coup of March 19th. He has been a
03:22:09prisoner for 18 months. A crumbling IBB indictment.
03:22:13Informers apologize in court, saying,
03:22:17"Forgive me." There are no documents,
03:22:20no information, but some people wear badges,
03:22:23they are acquitted with badges. There are
03:22:27people who are acquitted with badges right now.
03:22:30In this situation, Mr. Mehmet Uçum comes out
03:22:34and says here that a new constitution will
03:22:38be the driving force of a great march.
03:22:41He also says that it will be
03:22:44everyone's duty to crown our republic with
03:22:48a new constitution. He says it is
03:22:52a national issue. This person named Uçum
03:23:08talked about national enter this debate.
03:23:11They cannot stay out of it.
03:23:14And there's this: this sentence,
03:23:17"The constitution is a system of guarantees,"
03:23:20should be at the center of what
03:23:24the opposition needs. What is that?
03:23:27The guarantee for this guarantee is
03:23:31this: these are not what the government
03:23:34did. We will enter this constitutional
03:23:38debate with this system of guarantees,
03:23:42and we will bring this when we
03:23:44come to power or when there
03:23:48is a public vote. I mean,
03:23:51I will make a reference again.
03:23:54I don't think the opposition can
03:23:58remain indifferent. They must have a
03:24:02preparation. about a situation where
03:24:05they don't even
03:24:08state of the constitution, as Süleyman
03:24:11Bey said? We are not in the
03:24:15constitutional debate," you will lose your
03:24:18claim. That is, everyone who wants to
03:24:22be in power, even those who
03:24:25are opposition parties, must propose a
03:24:29constitution that is free from the
03:24:33traces of the coup constitution and
03:24:36that will truly
03:24:44provide the broadest social consensus.
03:24:47They have to it will be, we
03:24:51asked Tülay as well. Tülay, last program, Hatima, what
03:24:54do you think about the new constitution? She said that democracy
03:24:58is our red line, so she said something like that, she doesn't seem to
03:25:02get involved in it easily with calculations, because I wrote
03:25:05it down. For example, let's say something like this happened, what will
03:25:09you do with the mother tongue? It says this. So,
03:25:13local democracy, the European Union Local
03:25:16Government Charter of Autonomy, the removal of 16
03:25:19reservations. This government will not remove it, I mean it's impossible.
03:25:23Equal citizenship, list them down. Ahmet will return to duty,
03:25:27trustees have not returned yet. So, there doesn't seem to be
03:25:30an environment to reach an agreement here and say let's
03:25:34go for a constitution with them. It's not a very easy thing,
03:25:38but we shouldn't think that way, let me
03:25:41ya seçim eee anayasa değişikliğinden önce
03:25:44olacak anayasa değişikliği oylamasından önce olacak bu işte
03:25:48gündem saptırmaktır hafif bir gündemdir
03:25:51eee öyle olduğunu düşünmüyorum yani hikaye yazmaya çalışıyorlar o
03:25:55hikayeyi muhalefetin doldurması lazım tabii ki bir
03:25:58güvenceler sistemini tartışarak şu okuma genelde tabii yapılıyor
03:26:02böyle bir yeni anayasa gündeme
03:26:04gelirse eee Adalet ve kalkınma partis
03:26:15destek verme ihtimaliyle işte bu 360 sınırına ulaşılması gibi bir hesap yapılıyor dolayısıyla
03:26:18bu okumanın şu an için henüz erken ve hatta yanlış olduğunu söylüyor ben
03:26:22evet yani bizzat temsilcilerinden de dinledim bir de şöyle bir şey var anayasanın
03:26:26ilk dört maddesine dokunulmaz diyor değil mi uçum altını çizmiş tamam öyle
03:26:30diyelim ne olacak 42 değil mi
03:26:3366 diğer meselelere geliyor yani şeyin
03:26:36taleplerine geldiğini. zaman oralarda da çok kolay eee
03:26:40değil yani bu işler dolayısıyla eee bir
03:26:43demokratikleşme ortamı sağlanmadan ben eee o
03:26:46işin öyle bir üçlü ittifakla
03:26:49geçebileceği kanaatinde değilim ben orada pardon bir şey
03:26:53söyleyeyim benim söylemek istediğim anayasa değişikliğinden
03:26:56öte önce pragmatik bir yapı var karşımızda
03:26:59pragmatik bir ihtiyar var kaybedeceklerini gördükleri
03:27:03anda ki görüyorlar diye düşünüyorum oturup sistemi konuşalım.
03:27:09Yani anayasa değişikliği eee sonraki süreç ki
03:27:12kendisi 29 dönem diye belirtmiş zaten ama sistem
03:27:15değişikliğini 50 +1 alacaklarını görseler mümkün
03:27:19değil hiç konuşacakları bir şey değil ama bunu gördüklerinde
03:27:23muhalefete bütün muhalefet bileşenlerine ya gelin
03:27:26cumhurbaşkanlığı hükümet sistemini oturup konuşalım diyeceklerdir bu 50 +
03:27:291'den vazgeçme anlamına gelmiyor
03:27:32Bahadir Özgür önümüze hep bir hedef konuyor tabii mesela bunu çerçeve
03:27:36yasa sırasında. da gördük, mesela bu çerçeve yasa yürürlüğe
03:27:40girdiğinde eee Avrupa İnsan Hakları Mahkemesi
03:27:43kararlarının uygulanması eee
03:27:45önerisi gelmişti, e şimdi Mehmet Uçum'un açıklamalarına bakıyoruz, yeni
03:27:49anayasa çıktığında Türkiye'nin büyük yürüyüşü başlayacak deniyor, hep hedefler
03:27:53konuluyor, e şimdi gerçekler de başka ya şimdi bir kere
03:27:57Türkiye'de anayasa yapmak kolay değil, zaten darbeler
03:28:00sonrası yapılmış ama onlar da teknokrat bir kadro toplanaraktan
03:28:04çok geniş onlar yazmışlar anayasaları böyle.
03:28:07bir anayasa kültürü yapma kültürü hani topluma soralım
03:28:11Meclisse soralım en geniş mutabakatta yapalım diye bir kültür yok
03:28:14zaten tarihimizde yok Russonun toplumsal sözleşmesi
03:28:18de bir şey yok yani bu bir. olarak hep söylenir ama olmamış bir şey
03:28:21ikincisi bu iktidarın çok uzun
03:28:24süredir, süre sonra tek bir konuda
03:28:27istikrarlı gidebiliyor, bu işte çerçeve yasayla birlikte işte çözüm süreci
03:28:31denilen konu dışında hiçbir yerde
03:28:34istikrar yok, hiçbir yerde de yarın ne yapacağını kendisi de
03:28:37bilmiyor, ekonomide, ne adalette, yani her
03:28:41gün tuhaf tuhaf operasyonlar yapıyorsunuz, eee farklı
03:28:45farklı kesimleri artık ucu açık operasyonlar bunlar, yani bazen
03:28:49birinin varlığını he def alıyorsunuz işte en son LGBT'liler gibi bazen birilerinin
03:28:52özel olarak iktidara adayı oldu diye atıyorsunuz içeri işte
03:28:56CHP ve yeni parti vekilleri gibi dolayısıyla
03:28:58elinde istikrarlı yani yarına efendim biz
03:29:02sonra geleceği inşa ediyoruz falan diyebileceği hiçbir
03:29:06dayanak yok şu an kaldı ki
03:29:09dış değişimleri en hassas
03:29:11anında
03:29:13yani bugün belki de AKP tarihi boyunca çok uzun
03:29:17zamandır ilk defa bu kadar ne denirse. yapabilecek bir
03:29:20zayıflıktadır açısından İran konusunda bir
03:29:24Amerika bir Türkiye en
03:29:28şiddetli ekonomik ambargo uygulayan başka yok, iki tane
03:29:31bankayı kapattınız, evet daha bir iki gün içinde
03:29:35bankayı kapattınız. Bunu şundan söylüyorum, hani Mehmet Hucum iyi, tabii
03:29:39seçilmeyince insan atanınca bir sürü fantezi yapabiliyor
03:29:43geleceğe dair, çünkü bir şeye dayanmıyor, herhangi bir
03:29:46makama seçilerek oturulmuş bir şeyi temsil eden birisi değil. bin
03:29:50Odalı Saraydaki dört rasputinden birisi yani
03:29:53da bir şey söylüyor, başkası da başka bir şey söylüyor, mesela
03:29:57düşürelim diyor, AKP üzerine başka hesaplar var, o
03:30:00yüzden ben bu tartışmanın bakın yani
03:30:03bunu hayata geçirirler mi, geçirmezler mi, bu gündem sattırma mu değil
03:30:07mi ötesinde bir şey söylüyorum, bu iktidarın bir konu
03:30:11dışında şu an da kendisinin isteyerek oturmadığını biliyoruz,
03:30:14dünyadaki bölgesel gelişmeler ve
03:30:17İmralı'dan gelen net bir... adım dışı
03:30:21olmasaydı bunu da yapamayacaktı, bunu da götüremeyecekti. Tek bir
03:30:24konuda, bir tek sürdürebildiği politika tek bu var. O da
03:30:27bakalım yani daha hani nasıl gidecek. Onun dışında
03:30:31hiçbir konuda geleceğe dair fikir
03:30:34söyleyebilecek düzeyde dahili değil. Yani ne
03:30:37dünyaya, ne ülkeyeye, ekonomiye, ne başka türlü. O yüzden
03:30:41ben uçumun şeyini bu şimdi bir iktidar
03:30:44içinde şöyle bir şey var. Onu her alanda
03:30:46görüyoruz. Yani ne olacak, hani biz nasıl.
03:30:50bir eee yöntemle bu inşa
03:30:53etmeye çalıştığımız rejimin devamlılığını sağlayacağız. Kimisi diyor ki, ya
03:30:57bu çok şey oldu, bir sürü arızası var, biz bunu biraz
03:31:00parlamentoya da güç verelim, bakanları oradan seçelim, hani partiyi AKP'yi
03:31:04güçlendirelim, çünkü toplumla sonuçta bu bağ kuruyor, bir kısmı bunu
03:31:08söylüyor, bunu söyleyenler de az isim değil, yani Mehmet Huçum'dan az isim değil,
03:31:12Mehmet Uçumsa bir rejim kurduk, bu rejimin
03:31:15güvenliğini sağlayabilecek bir hukuki
03:31:18güvence yani. yoksa bu demokratik anayasa falan
03:31:21değil, temel olarak bu kurulan rejimin
03:31:25artık biz yeni bir rejim kurduk, yeni bir devlet kurduk, buna uygun, bunu güvenceye
03:31:29alacak bir yasal şey lazımdır, bunu uzun süredir söylüyor, da başka bir
03:31:33şey öneriyor, ama iktidar orta
03:31:36MHP başka şeyler söyleyebiliyor, yani şundan
03:31:39söylüyorum, hani Mehmet Uçum'un söylediği
03:31:42şey bir senaryo nun
03:31:45parçası, ama öbür tarafta başka senaryo da var ve bütün bunlar
03:31:49ülke. içindeki dışındaki gelişmelerle sürekli
03:31:53değişebiliyor bakın ülkenin adalet bakanı tabii bir şey söyledi
03:31:56ama evet anayasa falan değil ne anayasası cumhurbaşkanını
03:32:00yeniden seçeceğim seçim diyor yani tarihte seçime
03:32:04böyle bir isim konulmamıştı diyor ki ne
03:32:06anayasası ne hukuku diyor ne hak özgürlüğü
03:32:09diyor bir biz cumhurbaşkanını seçebileceğimiz
03:32:13seçime gidiyoruz onun iktidarda kaldığı her yol mübah diyor
03:32:16from here,
03:32:21çünkü bu olanlar işte bakın bugün bir şeyler konuşuyoruz değil mi
03:32:24operasyon nereden çıktı diyoruz o nereden çıktı diyoruz bu nereden çıktı diyoruz orada da bir
03:32:28farklı bir yol çizenler var birileri böyle olmasın o
03:32:32yüzden eee ya uçum söylediği şey
03:32:36benim için hani 25 yıllık çok
03:32:40parçalı eee çok gücü
03:32:43odağından oluşan eee dünyadaki gelişmelere çok duyarlı
03:32:47hassas olan ve içeride de giderekten aslında. da
03:32:50ana eee davasını kaybetmiş bir iktidar
03:32:53içindeki bir birinin bir
03:32:56bölümün eee çözüm
03:32:58önerisi hani çizmeye çalıştığı yol gibi görüyorum ama
03:33:02başka başka hatlar öneren de başka yollar önerenler de
03:33:05var şimdi peki burada dediğin gibi iki gazeteci varken
03:33:09şey sormak istiyorum bu anayasa komisyonuna hiçbir sızıntı yok mu nasıl
03:33:13anayasa komisyonu AKP'nin kurdu
03:33:16hocam ya bunların hiçbir önemi yok işlevli olduğu zaman onlar işlev'. hale
03:33:20getirebilir ama şu da var bakın 2017
03:33:23referandumunda MHP hayır anayasa değişikliğine gerek yok diye MHP
03:33:27bir gecede değil mi başkanlık rejiminin önünü açabildi o yüzden söylüyorum
03:33:30yani bu çizile. çerçeveler bir şey ifade
03:33:34etmiyor, gidişatta tıkanma yani nasıl
03:33:37rejimin nasıl devam ettirileceği konusunda bir
03:33:41farklı senaryoların çarpıştığı, dolayısıyla o senaryolara sahip
03:33:44aktörlerin de öyle kendi içinde de tartıştığı, çarpıştığı
03:33:48bir sürece girdik biz, ben seçime
03:33:51açıkçası önce şu, bence önce bir seçimi
03:33:54kazansınlar,
03:33:56bence zaten bütün yapılan şey buna, bakın bütün enerjisini,
03:34:00bütün kaynakları, bütün... yargı gücünü, bütün devlet
03:34:03gücünü bu seçimi kazanmaya hasrediyor bu
03:34:06iktidar bütün güçleriyle, o yüzden
03:34:09onun ötesine geçebilecek, düşünebilecek bir
03:34:13şeye sahip olduğunu henüz düşünmüyorum. şimdi
03:34:16Bahadur Özgür hatırlattı biraz önce, eee cuma günü biz de konuşmuştuk bu
03:34:20ekranlarda Adalet bakanı Akın Gürlek'in açıklaması,
03:34:23cumhurbaşkanımızı işte yeniden seçtirmek üzere bir seçim yapacağız
03:34:26açıklaması. Mehmet Uçum seçim tarihini vermişti, bakan Kürlekten de
03:34:30seçimin sonucu mu geldi açıklaması geldi. bir koltuğa oturan
03:34:33insanlar ve evet devlete şey biçiyorlar böyle kıyafet rejime tamam mı
03:34:37böyle güzel güzel bunu bunun ancak
03:34:40aktörleri sokağa halka ya bir şey somutlandığı
03:34:44zaman ancak o zaman konuşabileceğiniz bir şey ama bir şey ekleyeyim
03:34:47lütfen bütün bu şeyleri heyecanlandıran
03:34:50şey süreç yasasının
03:34:53MHP'nin bile AKP'nin bile beklentisinin üzerinde bir
03:34:57oyla meclisten geçmesi ve bir şey
03:35:00sağlanması orada şimdi o herkes evet. seslendirdi böyle bir
03:35:04meclis bulmuşken
03:35:06acaba eee işte restorasyonu ne bileyim
03:35:09yeniden tamiratı bu meclis içinde mi
03:35:12yapsak
03:35:14seçimi den önce bunu yapsak yok seçimden sonrasına mı kalsa
03:35:18ama bu meclis şeyi bir iştahlandırdı insanları
03:35:22AKP'de belli kişileri bir de açıklamasında direkt
03:35:2529 dönem demiyor en geç 29 dönem
03:35:29diyor yani bu dönemi de olabilirliğini koyuyor.
03:35:33seçimden önce başlayacak demektir bu yani seçim hallaması olmadan da
03:35:36olmaz aynen yani diyor ki yani biz hepsini şurada bu fırsatı
03:35:40bulmuşken yani referandum seçim anayasa
03:35:43hepsini de bu süreci bir arada götürebiliriz diyor ama dediğim gibi ben
03:35:47bunları çok şey buluyorum henüz peki o
03:35:50zaman Süleyman Bey'e gitmeden ben konuklarıma sorayım Ercümet Bey'e de sorayım
03:35:54şimdi siz de hatırlattınız biraz önce bakın arkadaşlarım
03:35:57ekranlara getir bir daha gösterelim belki ekranlarını yeni açmış izleyicilerimiz vardır ben o
03:36:01cümleyedik. kesildim, ne
03:36:04diyor? eee meclis en geç 29.
03:36:07dönemde yeni anayasayı yaptığında zorunlu olarak başvurulacak
03:36:11halk oylamasında çok yüksek bir oy oranıyla yeni anayasa kabul
03:36:14edilecektir. şimdi Semih hocama sorum şu: çok yüksek bir
03:36:17oranla bir araştırmacı olarak kabul edilir mi? Sayın Akdeniz'e
03:36:21sorum şu eee zorunlu olarak başvurulacak halk
03:36:24oylaması nasıl bir meclis aritmetiğine işaret
03:36:28eder bir de mesela işte den parti'nin tavrı ne
03:36:31olur dedik. "mutlak butlağın yönetimini de
03:36:34soralım, ne dersiniz? ya şöyle,
03:36:38şimdi mesela Semih hocam da söyledi, gazetecilerin hiçbir
03:36:42bilgisi yok mu diye, hani mesela anayasayla
03:36:45ilgili, anayasa çalışmalarıyla ilgili, mesela ben parti
03:36:49cephesinden söyleyeyim, zaten uzunca süredir çalışmalar vardı, anayasa
03:36:52hukukçususu zaten Mithat Sancar Bey orada yok ben AKP için
03:36:56kat yani oraya geleceğim, şimdi
03:36:59onun gibi mesela çerçeve yasa, çerçeve..." yasanın
03:37:03remember the draft of the law, for example, Denparti's relevant
03:37:06commissions did very serious work, they had a very comprehensive
03:37:09thing in hand, an alternative,
03:37:13a draft, but they always said, "Show us what
03:37:17you have," and since it never came, they neither announced it
03:37:20to the public nor gave it to the AK Party, do you understand?
03:37:24Therefore, even
03:37:27here, when there is no trust, and we can't even
03:37:30talk about these things, there is no position of "Let's all
03:37:33go there" in my opinion, not yet,
03:37:36I mean, I can say that, not yet.
03:37:39Not even in the framework law. I mean, they say, "Show
03:37:43us your law," and "It came to our hands on the last night,"
03:37:46I mean, how can it be like that? How can you enter this process
03:37:50with a trust problem? It is clear
03:37:54that what he calls mandatory is this:
03:37:57it is possible in the parliament with the necessary number of deputies.
03:38:01There were articles and statements before,
03:38:04and they say it with reference to the
03:38:07widest social consensus that it must pass a public
03:38:11vote. Otherwise, they are not saying
03:38:15that they will not submit it to a public vote.
03:38:19I interpret it as follows:
03:38:22"We are confident that the people will support
03:38:26us." This is to strengthen this perception while going
03:38:29to the elections. "We challenge them, we go to the people with the
03:38:33constitution," they say. As Mr. Özgür says, "We challenge them,
03:38:36let's go to the elections." They also say, "We challenge them,
03:38:40let's take the constitution to the people." I think it's a pre-election
03:38:44tactic. Now, whether they will take it to the people or not
03:38:48according to the election results, we don't know, but that's
03:38:51another question mark. Of course, the leadership of Mutlak
03:38:55Butlan, the CHP deputies, what will they do in such a situation?
03:38:59That's another question, or rather not all of them, but some of them. So,
03:39:02it seems there will be a campaign.
03:39:06I mean, let's assume everything was said as
03:39:10it was, right? It was put to a public
03:39:14vote in a referendum. This will be a campaign. Now, in this
03:39:17campaign, what will the Republican
03:39:20People's Party, under the leadership of Mutlak Butlan, do?
03:39:24Will they act outside the campaign or with the opposition?
03:39:27I see a partnership with the new party here as
03:39:31a difficult possibility, I mean, I might side with
03:39:34them, I don't want to speak on their behalf, but it could
03:39:38be a less colorful position. But, as
03:39:41I said, the election results are very important.
03:39:45If the results come in very strong,
03:39:48the AK Party could even side with Mutlak
03:39:51Butlan, I don't know. Well, let me summarize briefly. If
03:39:55such a thing is submitted to the approval of the people,
03:39:58Mr. Uçum says it will be accepted by a large margin.
03:40:01He actually says that in principle, as far as I understand, because
03:40:05there are previous statements that even if it's over 400,
03:40:08they will take the constitution to a public vote. So, he is
03:40:12actually saying it as a principle. I don't think it's a very
03:40:15well-thought-out, very serious thing. After all, they are doing
03:40:19strategy, making projections. For all these to happen,
03:40:22there are necessary conditions. First, they need to win the
03:40:26election. The alliance models for the next term, even
03:40:30when entering the election, are not clear. Mr. Bahadır Özgür
03:40:33just explained, they can change everything tomorrow because it's
03:40:37a very pragmatic structure. I mean, they can make any
03:40:41alliance with anyone, both according to the international conjuncture
03:40:45and the domestic conjuncture. We all saw what they said
03:40:49before 2023 during the framework law or this new opening
03:40:52process, and what they did immediately after. They still
03:40:56did this. I must state this, and I do so every
03:41:00time. Selahattin Demirtaş is still in prison,
03:41:03still in prison. I mean,
03:41:06this is the most obvious indicator of pragmatism.
03:41:09While all this is happening, while all this exists,
03:41:12talking about them actually
03:41:15pains me. Because
03:41:18you went to an election, you won, you found a majority
03:41:21that can reach 400 in the parliament in a general sense,
03:41:25we are talking about changing the constitution and a public
03:41:28vote. A lot of water will pass under that bridge before then.
03:41:32We'll talk about many more things. Look, today, we talked about the
03:41:35fund scandal for 3 hours. There's also this, I apologize,
03:41:38how many municipalities have changed hands through operations,
03:41:42transfers, etc.? It's over 50, right? Now, let's say,
03:41:45let's say the IBB was added, let's
03:41:48say, let's talk about the worst-case scenario, the Ankara
03:41:52Metropolitan Municipality was also added, or it was somehow
03:41:55disqualified, Izmir was added. In such a case,
03:41:59how will you go to a new constitution? There are no municipalities
03:42:03left. Who will do what? There's also this: the AK
03:42:06Party has been doing what they call strategy since its inception,
03:42:10but we now define them as political engineering.
03:42:13But in the past, when they did these, a great majority of
03:42:17these strategies came to fruition, because they had the support
03:42:20of one out of two people, their core vote was over
03:42:2440%, they got 49.9% of the votes. Currently, that
03:42:27support, that core vote, has dropped to 20%,
03:42:30before undecided voters are distributed. Currently, they
03:42:34only receive unconditional support from one out of five
03:42:37people. That's why we explained how much their ties with social
03:42:41classes have weakened. Therefore, it's not very easy for
03:42:45these kinds of strategies to turn the game around again,
03:42:48it's almost impossible, unless the opposition makes
03:42:52very dire and very big mistakes. Okay, let me also
03:42:56say this very briefly. Do you observe a decline
03:42:59in the new party's votes recently?
03:43:03Of course. Actually, we should consider if the new party's
03:43:07votes ever reached 40%, because when we first talked
03:43:11about it here, there were people who said the new party saw
03:43:1550%. No, there is a problem with the measurement, a technical
03:43:18problem. The potential votes
03:43:22kurulmasına destek olması onun doğrudan oya dönüşmesi anlamına
03:43:25gelmiyor, yeni parti de o nedenle bir oy düşüşünü tartışmaktan
03:43:29öte çerçeve yasayla ilgili bir oy düşüşü oldu
03:43:32ama bu bu kadar hani 10 puanlar 12 puanlar falan değil onu çok
03:43:36net söyleyeyim ama şu var yeni
03:43:40parti daha henüz eee o anlamda hani oyu şudur
03:43:43şu tabana oturmuştur de... için çok erken davranıldı, bu
03:43:47benzeri süreç, iyi parti ilk kurulduğunda da 18'ler, 20'ler
03:43:50konuşuluyordu, sonra 9-10 bandına oturmuştu, bu buraya
03:43:54oturur anlamında değil, üstüne de çıkabilir daha... da
03:43:57düşebilir, bundan sonra, çünkü daha genel merkezlerini yeni
03:44:01açtılar, il iliç örgütleri daha yeni oluyor, işte kurmay kadroyu
03:44:04göreceğiz, vitrinleri göreceğiz, halk da bunu görecek,
03:44:08politikalarını görecek, asıl oy baremini o zaman göreceğiz ama şu
03:44:11çok net, genel anlamda baktığınızda muhalefet bir muhalefet
03:44:15partilerinin, muhalefet bloğunun hani yeni partide oy eksildi dense bile
03:44:19eee AKP'de bir artış yok, MHP'de bir artış
03:44:22yok, onların oyları hala sabit çerçeve yasaya
03:44:26hayır oyu ver.
03:44:41yani şimdi MHP'de bir miktar eğer ilk başta
03:44:45ilk o çıkışı yaptığında
03:44:48eee beklenenin çok altında bir düşüş olmuştu hep onu ifade ediyordum onu iyi
03:44:51yönettiler o süreci ama son dönemde baktığımızda
03:44:54o düşüşün daha belirginleştiğini.
03:45:06birçok parametre devreye girmeyince oranlar üzerinden
03:45:09konuşmak bizleri yanıltır trendlere bakabiliriz
03:45:12yükselenleri alçalanları görebiliriz ama ya şu
03:45:16şu orandır bu bu orandır demek çok şey hani
03:45:19eee bugün örneğin Almanya seçimleri eee
03:45:23yapıldı ve Almanya'da Berlin'de eee
03:45:27bir Türk çok bir göçmen ilk defa
03:45:30başkanlı kazandı Elif hanım eee şimdi bu ama
03:45:34bakın bu oradaki seçim sonuçlarına da bakın daha önce
03:45:37yapılan araştırmalara bakın son 6 ayda
03:45:41Almanya'nın her bölgesinde oy
03:45:43oranları kadar radikal değişimler gösterdi ki şu anki
03:45:47duruma geldik yani Türkiye'de de aslında Türkiye çok daha
03:45:51dinamik yani bazı alt üst oluşlarla o
03:45:54oranlar çok değişebilir biz %7 ölçtümiz. bir partiyi hep
03:45:58söylüyorum, bir ay sonra ölçtüğümüzde 2023
03:46:01öncesinde %2 ölçebiliyorduk, bu bundan
03:46:04dolayı oy oranına çok takılmamak lazım, yeni parti henüz adı gibi
03:46:08yeni, tabii bence biraz daha zamanı, tabii
03:46:11anketler özellikle de tabii her ankete de eee ya
03:46:14anketlere de temkinli eee yaklaşmak da gerekiyor, öyle değil mi yani her
03:46:18ankete tabii ki eee çünkü mesela cumhurbaşkanlığı seçimi öncesinde de Kemal
03:46:22Kılıçdaroğlu'un açık arak kazandığını gösteren anketleri de görmüştük sayın Bül sokaklar
03:46:26farklı efendim.
03:46:3191 milletvekili olarak sokaklardayız, genel başkanımız geçen iki günden
03:46:35beri Bursa ve Yalova'da eee
03:46:37sokaktaydı, yani Bursa Yalova'da vatandaş, daha
03:46:41önce hangi partiye oy vermiş olursa olsun bir alternatif
03:46:45görüyor yeni partide genel başkanımız Özgür Özel'le birlikte, yani
03:46:48vatandaşa dokunuyoruz, biz sadece miting yapmıyoruz, vatandaşa
03:46:52dokunuyoruz, bu nedenle ben sokakta çıktığım
03:46:55zaman daha önce ak parti. vermiş, MHP'ye oy vermiş
03:46:58vatandaşların artık yeni partiye oy vereceğini
03:47:01söylemlerini görüyorum, duyuyorum, nedenle tabii
03:47:04oturacak, daha örgütlenme çalışmalarımız devam ediyor, bununla
03:47:08birlikte vatandaşın sesi olmaya devam ediyoruz, çözümlerimizle birlikte
03:47:11geliyoruz, çiftçi soruyor, dediğim gibi eee
03:47:15Domaniç'te sordu çiftçi, eee Kütahya'da sordu, eee,
03:47:19ben Eskşehir'den domatesime getiriyorum buraya, mazot 100 lira olmuş durumda
03:47:23eee 15 lira satıyorum domatesi, ben yani bundan
03:47:26kazanmıyor. diyor çiftçi, o 80
03:47:30kilometrelik yeri Esşiir'den ilçesinden getirdiğim domatesten para
03:47:33kazanmıyorum diyor, eee zeytin üretiisi 140 lira olmuş
03:47:36zeytinin bir kilosu, zeytin yağı,
03:47:39zeytinyağı yani ağaçlarda bırakılıyor özellikle
03:47:42are left, there is no
03:47:45base price for figs, figs now today
03:47:48I saw them at a greengrocer in Beşiktaş, Bursa figs, black
03:47:52figs are 295 liras, but in Kütahya, those figs,
03:47:562 kilos of figs.
03:47:58The price is 50 liras per kilo, consider figs coming from Bursa
03:48:01to Kütahya Market for 50 liras,
03:48:05while figs coming to Istanbul are sold for 295
03:48:08liras at the greengrocer.
03:48:12So, the producer cannot earn money, the producer cannot
03:48:15do anything against the input costs. We come with our solutions.
03:48:19Now, a exorbitant price operation was conducted,
03:48:22what happened? 40 vegetable and fruit vendors were taken
03:48:26into custody. As Semih Bey also said, these issues cannot
03:48:29be resolved with police or judicial
03:48:32interventions. This is about
03:48:36work. The Ministry of Agriculture, what do the ministries
03:48:39do? They work. I mean, unfair competition institutions
03:48:43work. In this context, the SPK, they
03:48:46work. If you only see everything
03:48:49as a crime in the criminological sense,
03:48:51you cannot solve this market
03:48:55economy. Prosecutor's offices. They
03:49:10removed the trustee. Citizens cannot afford red meat right now.
03:49:14Of course, citizens are experiencing these things. As a new party,
03:49:17we don't need to explain the problems of pensioners, tradesmen,
03:49:21and producers here. Solutions are important. What's important is to give an example.
03:49:24I want to give an example. In the 2026 budget, according
03:49:27to Article 21 of the Agricultural Law, a support premium should
03:49:31be given to producers, not less than 1%
03:49:34of the gross national product. However, in the 2026
03:49:37budget, two per thousand was given. No additional premium
03:49:40was given. So, you go
03:49:43and bring thousands of tons
03:49:45of olive oil from Syria,
03:49:48and you are ruining the olive oil
03:49:51producer. What will this producer do? How
03:49:54will he make a living? If the producer cannot produce,
03:49:57if he cannot earn money, there is a chain reaction going towards
03:50:01the tradesmen. Therefore, we come with solutions. We tell
03:50:04pensioners that they will receive at least 1.5
03:50:07times the minimum wage.
03:50:10Article 21 of the Agricultural Law, which concerns support premiums,
03:50:13will be implemented. We make many promises
03:50:16to tradesmen regarding retirement, such as we will
03:50:19waive your debts to banks, waive their interest,
03:50:23and spread the principal over many years. We tell
03:50:26young people that we will eliminate
03:50:30their future concerns by creating job
03:50:33opportunities. There used to be a State Planning Organization, you remember?
03:50:36I mean, there was a plan
03:50:40for where products would be planted,
03:50:43there was a plan for products. There was
03:50:47a plan for professions. I mean, there's
03:50:50no such thing as planning left. One day you produce pomegranates,
03:50:53you plant pomegranates, two years later you cut them because they don't
03:50:56make money. You plant citrus fruits. There's no
03:51:00such thing. There's no such thing. So, for this reason,
03:51:03a planned economy, a planned economic system
03:51:07is absolutely necessary. Strategic products are important. "Olive oil
03:51:10is a strategic product. Cotton is a strategic
03:51:14product. I look at the Great Menderes Plain,
03:51:17in Aydın, Nazilli, cotton used to be planted all
03:51:20over. Atatürk, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, gifted
03:51:24Nazilli Sumerbank after the War of Independence. 700
03:51:28workers were employed there. There was cotton research, but now
03:51:31in the Great Menderes Plain, there is no cotton except in
03:51:35Söke and Koçarlı. No cotton. Where do we get cotton from? We get
03:51:38it from Greek farmers. Wheat..." We get it from Ukraine.
03:51:42So, we are pushing our own farmers aside. Therefore,
03:51:45citizens are in the streets with the solutions of the new party,
03:51:49with our chairman of the new party, Özgür Özel, touching the
03:51:52citizens. The streets, the streets don't care
03:51:56if the constitution will change in this system. The streets
03:51:59say, "They seized our presidential
03:52:03candidate Ekrem İmamoğlu's unprinted book
03:52:06at the printing press, they seized it!" What does this mean?
03:52:10Can such a thing happen? He also explained the chronology of a ban
03:52:13in the FETO judiciary on his account, we will look at that later.
03:52:17Do you remember the FETO judiciary? Ahmet
03:52:19Şık's what was it, Imam's
03:52:23Army book was also seized at the printing press. So,
03:52:26what democracy are they talking about? And he said something at that time,
03:52:29do you remember? Mr. Tayyip Erdoğan was
03:52:32the prime minister at that time. He said there are books that are more dangerous than bombs.
03:52:36This is Tayyip Bey's way. The
03:52:40current palace regime's understanding of democracy is this:
03:52:44there are books that are more dangerous than bombs. That's
03:52:48why democracy and freedoms are important to us. rights and freedoms are not
03:52:51implemented, then make any a civilian constitution. And who is
03:52:55Mehmet Uçum? He is an appointed person. Who is Mehmet Uçum? Are
03:52:58there no group deputy chairs for the AK Party, the People's Alliance,
03:53:02to speak? Are there no chairmen of the Constitutional Commission?
03:53:05Will appointed people like Mehmet Uçum speak?
03:53:10The 360 deputies, 280 from AK Party,
03:53:1350, 46 from MHP, one
03:53:17DSP from the People's Alliance... With these, they reach 360
03:53:20or 400. Let the deputies speak now, let the party
03:53:24speak, let the party spokesmen speak. Appointed people are speaking. This
03:53:28is the point we have reached. The disabling of the legislature,
03:53:31this one-man regime, this
03:53:34means there is no democracy, freedoms, and rule of law.
03:53:38One man makes the decision,
03:53:51I'm trying to interrupt, we're going to a commercial break. Before we go to a commercial break, Ercüment bey was going to leave, so I want to give him the last word.
03:53:55I'm trying to go. If you have time, will you stay with us a little longer?
03:53:59I'll ask him live so he can't refuse me. So,
03:54:02well
03:54:05then, let's go to a break. After the break,
03:54:08the floor is yours. Let's continue, we
03:54:11And if they lose We'll be
03:54:13back soon.
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03:57:10Mahmut Arıkan, the Chairman of the Felicity Party,
03:57:14one of the most talked-about
03:57:15politicians recently.
03:57:30How does he view the Mecca agreement? What does the
03:57:33Ankara Table he proposed mean? What does he
03:57:37think about the process called "Turkey without terror" and
03:57:40the allegations of a villa for Öcalan
03:57:42in İmralı? Deniz Bayramoğlu asks: Mahmut
03:57:46Arıkan, the Chairman of the Felicity Party, answers as the
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04:00:09We are back together, after a short break, the floor is yours.
04:00:12We are starting our last hour, and you can see
04:00:15a breaking development on your screens. Let's share
04:00:19the details with you. Today, for a long time, ever since
04:00:22we started our program, we talked about
04:00:25this fund scandal. The question is, to what
04:00:29extent will the scandal escalate? The investigation
04:00:32is clearly expanding. New
04:00:39Istanbul Chief Public Prosecutor.