Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00We are from outside the Iketut studio Arya Pria Utama, expert
00:00:03in Shipbuilding Hydrodynamics as well as professor at the ITS Faculty of Marine Technology
00:00:06and Haris Muhammadun, Chairman of the Indonesian Transportation Society or MTI. Good evening Professor
00:00:10Ketut and also Mr. Haris.
00:00:13Good evening
00:00:16Anggih. Well, I will start from the technical side first
00:00:20with the professor. So, if this
00:00:23all modifications Virgo ship is said to be a former Japanese ship, which basically operates in waters with different wave
00:00:27characteristics, right? Now, when a ship like this, professor, operates in the Java
00:00:31Sea, how big is the influence of wave characteristics on the ship's
00:00:35stability?
00:00:38Well, Mas Anggi,
00:00:42related to what good evening. A ship is
00:00:44built, of course, for a certain operational
00:00:48area. Now, in the case of the Virgo ship, it was
00:00:52reported in many news outlets, including for
00:00:55short distances of 180 km, then it was made
00:00:59in Indonesia for open seas. Now, in shipbuilding science, there must be
00:01:03an analysis called "ship performance" or, in
00:01:07more specific terms, "sea keeping." Now,
00:01:11which also needs to be this aspect is often neglected in the shipbuilding industry.
00:01:14So, ship owners or ship orderers often
00:01:17prioritize whether the speed has been achieved or not,
00:01:21for example, 15 knots. And whether it can carry enough passengers.
00:01:25Then, that's enough. Then,
00:01:28the ship was imported from Japan and brought to Indonesia without
00:01:32a sea-keeping analysis being conducted. Moreover, there were some changes made
00:01:35to adapt to the conditions in Indonesia. Now,
00:01:39that's what should have been done, Mas Anggi. So, there should be a sea-keeping analysis that must
00:01:42be included in the decision to
00:01:46operate a ship like KMP
00:01:49Virgo. Who should be supervising this,
00:01:53Professor?
00:01:56Well, it could be from, they usually use
00:02:00consultants, design consultants, or also from the class, of course.
00:02:03Hmm, yes, or parties that issue
00:02:06operational permits, for example, if operational permits are issued
00:02:10by KSOP or perhaps the Ministry of Transportation or the Directorate General
00:02:13of Sea Transportation. For example, they must ask for the analysis earlier
00:02:17that the ship used to sail in short-distance seas, then
00:02:21it was brought to open seas. Where is that analysis, then? Does it meet the requirements
00:02:25or not? Okay, I'll go to Mr. Haris. Mr. Haris, if from the public transportation
00:02:29side, it's not just about design, but also about feasibility and
00:02:32supervision, which the professor mentioned earlier. To what extent should the authorities
00:02:35ensure that the characteristics of this ship
00:02:39Then, if the weighbridge remain in accordance with the route and water conditions it passes through, Mr. Haris?
00:02:42Yes, well,
00:02:46from the Indonesian Transportation Society's perspective,
00:02:49this incident has happened
00:02:53repeatedly. Again and again,
00:02:56the transportation community
00:03:00requests the authorities, namely the Ministry
00:03:03of Transportation, to implement
00:03:07and what kind of cargo whether it's by all the regulations they have. As
00:03:09Mr. Tulus mentioned earlier,
00:03:12the team, or let's say, those on there are actually regulations for importing
00:03:15that. Then, also in used ships in the trade minister's regulation,
00:03:18which states that the maximum
00:03:21age is 15 years. Now, when
00:03:25the age is above that, there must be
00:03:28a consultant analysis, as Prof. Ketut mentioned. What kind?
00:03:31Especially if it was also mentioned that
00:03:35the intended use is different. If the intended use there
00:03:38is for short distances, and here it is used for long
00:03:41distances, then of course, it must be
00:03:44done very rigorously. What is the reason
00:03:48for this? So that it doesn't cause
00:03:51casualties among the public, who really want to
00:03:55arrive safely at their destination, paying
00:03:58for something. The public just
00:04:00Okay. What wants to reach their destination safely and comfortably,
00:04:03with affordable costs. The public doesn't know that if it already has
00:04:07a permit, then of course, all
00:04:10aspects related to safety, seaworthiness,
00:04:13and others are already guaranteed. That is
00:04:16what the public expects. Therefore,
00:04:19there are already many regulations. Just implement
00:04:23those regulations. Then, in
00:04:25terms of supervision, the supervision must be truly
00:04:29effective. When the SPB or
00:04:32sailing permit is issued,
00:04:35then, of course, all aspects must already be considered
00:04:38so that the ship
00:04:41can be comfortable and arrive safely at its destination. Mr.
00:04:45Haris, for example, if you say that actually the Ministry of Transportation
00:04:49should just implement its own regulations. If MTI sees it or finds loopholes in the field,
00:04:53is it actually in supervision, in enforcement, or actually in
00:04:56the regulations?
00:05:00Yes, actually, yesterday, MTI
00:05:03held a webinar
00:05:07that brought together experts, including the chairman of KNKT and sailor
00:05:10communities. Regarding the Virgo ship
00:05:14accident, then MTI also conducted a mini
00:05:17polling. This means we asked all participants.
00:05:21It turns out that indeed,
00:05:25supervision is the most important thing, and that is related to what
00:05:28KNKT found or KNKT recommended.
00:05:32KNKT's recommendations from every
00:05:35ship accident that occurs,
00:05:38more than 70%
00:05:41recommend that supervision
00:05:44be carried out or
00:05:47that the aspect of operational supervision
00:05:50be truly carried out, because the front line
00:05:54or the most effective guardian is the
00:05:57regulator. For example, okay, safety
00:06:01culture or the community itself
00:06:04is indifferent to it. For example, they want to force
00:06:08it because there is no other service, they want to
00:06:11force themselves to enter there. Then, from the operator's side, perhaps they are negligent
00:06:15regarding maintenance and upkeep.
00:06:19For example, the last line of defense that can ensure
00:06:22that is the regulator, the
00:06:25government, because the SPB is issued by
00:06:28the port authority, which is part of the
00:06:32regulator, that's it, Mas Hangi. Has Mr. Haris ever
00:06:35communicated with the regulator about that finding, which was
00:06:38almost 70%?
00:06:41Yes, yesterday we invited representatives from the Ministry
00:06:45of Transportation from Dir
00:06:47Lalala, because yesterday the acting director general
00:06:51of sea transportation had already changed. So, yesterday,
00:06:55the one who participated in the discussion with MTI was Dir
00:06:58Lalala. We agreed yesterday with Dir Lalala,
00:07:02"Let's create a piloting project, a
00:07:05piloting project in one port where the mechanism
00:07:09is implemented properly."
00:07:12This means that from the moment the ship
00:07:16is about to depart, 1.5
00:07:19hours beforehand, it should already know how many vehicles
00:07:23will enter, how many people will
00:07:26enter, so that the placement,
00:07:29for example, parking, and
00:07:33also, for example, cargo, the cargo
00:07:36of goods, this is often undetected, so
00:07:40KNKT also notes that because of fire. That's a certain percentage, right?
00:07:44As a result of ship accidents, they also know what the cargo
00:07:47is. Okay, yes.
00:07:51at the port also has to function,
00:07:55so that they know the weight that needs to be transported, how many people, how many vehicles,
00:07:58how much cargo. Is it still okay?
00:08:02Well, we want to do that.
00:08:05Yesterday, with the Ministry of Transportation, MTI urged, "Let's
00:08:09do it in one location
00:08:12that we really implement it." We are embarrassed.
00:08:16This means that other modes of transportation,
00:08:19air, whether it's by train, we used to know
00:08:23that trains were a mess, but finally it could be done like
00:08:28the air, I once had an experience where everything had to be weighed
00:08:31first. The cargo was weighed, the people were weighed,
00:08:35which ultimately meant that the last passengers
00:08:38could not depart. Now, this is something good for
00:08:42us. Now, we want to do this, and yesterday we gave input
00:08:46to Dir Lalala. They will try to discuss
00:08:50this, and in the near future, MTI will issue a policy brief
00:08:53from the polling results, from the discussion results, and from
00:08:57our policy formulation team. That's it, Mr. Sanggi. Okay, Mr. Haris
00:09:01and Professor, there's one thing that also became public attention yesterday,
00:09:04all of our attention, regarding the modification or alleged
00:09:08modification of this ship. Now, ships sometimes
00:09:12undergo changes, including the addition of structures or decks
00:09:15to increase passenger capacity. Technically, Professor, how
00:09:19much can such changes affect or alter
00:09:22the center of gravity and stability of the ship? After the break,
00:09:26Professor, please answer. And viewers, please stay with us in Ram Time News.
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00:12:30Still with us from outside the studio, viewers. Iketut Arya Pria Utama, expert
00:12:33in shipbuilding hydrodynamics, as well as professor at the ITS Faculty of Marine Technology, and
00:12:37Haris Muhammadun, chairman of the Indonesian Transportation Society.
00:12:41Professor, let's talk about ship modifications, Professor. Imported
00:12:44ships are sometimes modified, including the addition of structures or decks to
00:12:48increase passenger capacity. Technically, Professor, how much
00:12:52can such changes alter the center of gravity
00:12:55and ship stability?
00:12:58Well, Mas Anggi, so ships imported from
00:13:02four-season countries, especially many cold winter
00:13:06seasons, so when imported to Indonesia, which is a tropical
00:13:09country, many openings are usually
00:13:12made. Why are openings made? As I said,
00:13:16so that there is enough wind, thus saving energy. So, if a ship in
00:13:20a cold country uses heaters, in
00:13:23Indonesia it uses AC because it's hot around it.
00:13:27Now, of course, this would be very wasteful. If no
00:13:30changes were made, perhaps the ship ticket would be very expensive.
00:13:33Now, the creation of openings is permitted
00:13:37according to classification rules, but there are regulations. Everything must be checked,
00:13:41examined for its impact on ship stability,
00:13:45on performance, including the addition of superstructure.
00:13:48Virgo is actually a ship that
00:13:51is very vulnerable to safety because
00:13:55the comparison between the height of the ship's superstructure
00:13:58and its width is very extreme,
00:14:02so the metacentric point tends to rise, and if
00:14:06it's like a pendulum, if it sways, it will be very slow,
00:14:09so it is easily capsized or difficult
00:14:12to recover. Now, that is generally, forgive
00:14:16me, as far as I know, not really considered
00:14:19when modifications are made and then the ship
00:14:23is operated. So, it only relies
00:14:25on the assumption that a ship is like a vehicle on
00:14:29the road. But this is the sea. So, the sea is always
00:14:32wavy, swaying, and sometimes the sea is calm,
00:14:35sometimes very extreme. The wave height can be 3 to 4
00:14:39meters, and that is not sufficiently taken into account. Now, that
00:14:42should be done in the analysis when changes
00:14:45are made. Okay, Mr. Haris, who should then
00:14:49ensure that such changes or modifications do not lower safety
00:14:53standards? Yes, so
00:14:57again, the government
00:15:00has the biggest role,
00:15:03because the last line of defense is definitely the government or
00:15:06the regulator. Even if the operator,
00:15:09as mentioned earlier, makes modifications,
00:15:13then they also have reasons.
00:15:16For example, they have hired
00:15:20consultants who say it is safe,
00:15:23but again, to get
00:15:26seaworthiness certification, it must be checked
00:15:29again by an expert team.
00:15:33Then, the Ministry of Transportation does not operate alone. They should
00:15:36also have teams that carry out
00:15:40verification and then conduct very
00:15:44strict trials, because we know that, again,
00:15:47our weather, our archipelagic and maritime environment
00:15:51is very extreme if
00:15:55something happens. Therefore,
00:15:58of course,
00:16:01made, whether they
00:16:04involved an expert team, perhaps
00:16:07hired by the operator, but again, the final
00:16:11authority that can permit it is the regulator.
00:16:14So, that is also
00:16:19MPI did yesterday, polling. For example, if
00:16:23asked who is most responsible for the implementation
00:16:26of this, it is, again,
00:16:2956.5%
00:16:31answered that it is the regulator.
00:16:35Then, the remaining 30
00:16:37to 7 point something percent is the
00:16:41operator, and the rest is indeed
00:16:44our societal culture, our public education,
00:16:49educated to prioritize,
00:16:51for example, if it's not necessary to depart, then don't
00:16:55depart, because safety is the number one
00:16:58priority. That's it, Mas Hangi. Okay,
00:17:02Mr. Haris, yesterday there was a confession from the survivors that they did not
00:17:06hear any warnings when the incident occurred. What is your response to
00:17:09a situation like this? Is there a wrong procedure here?
00:17:12Yes, definitely, because
00:17:16again, actually, if the SPB
00:17:20is executed correctly, the SPB shouldn't
00:17:23just be administrative. It should be, the
00:17:26sailing approval letter shouldn't just be administrative, but
00:17:30it must be done, even if it has to be random, right?
00:17:33How is the ramp check? How is the detection?
00:17:37How are the safety equipment? How are
00:17:41the lifeboats? So, all of that must be done,
00:17:44a ramp check, before the SPB
00:17:47is issued or released.
00:17:50Now, this is very ironic.
00:17:54This incident occurred, and then there's such a confession.
00:17:57And in my opinion, the public has the right to
00:18:00file a class action, to file a lawsuit,
00:18:04right? This will be a consideration for the Indonesian Transportation Society
00:18:08to advocate for this. Okay, good, Professor. I will
00:18:11go into a little technical detail, Professor. If
00:18:14the ramp door or the vehicle deck
00:18:18leaks and water then enters,
00:18:20of course, this water will move freely following the ship's movement. How can the water's movement
00:18:24in a large compartment without bulkheads cause
00:18:27a free surface effect and also make the ship
00:18:30suddenly lose stability, Professor? Could this be one of the
00:18:34theories why the ship might have capsized?
00:18:39It's very possible, Mas Anggi. I once read a KNKT report
00:18:42a few years ago about a ship accident in Teluk
00:18:45Buni. It was concluded that the ramp
00:18:49door was not watertight, then water
00:18:52entered, and there was no channel to
00:18:56drain it. Now, there should be one on a ship because a ship has what is called
00:18:59a camber or curvature. So, if water enters, it will flow to the left and
00:19:03right, and there are holes around to drain
00:19:06that water. Now, from the investigation case back then,
00:19:09it turned out that there was an opening, an opening that should have been closed,
00:19:13but it was open, and water entered there. Approximately 12 hours later, the ship
00:19:16eventually capsized. So, if it's a small leak, it takes a long time,
00:19:20but it continues, and eventually the ship also capsizes, because the water
00:19:24will sway. So, there is what is called the "sloshing effect" in the shipbuilding
00:19:27world. So, for example, if an oil tanker carrying
00:19:31Pertamina oil is not filled completely, don't be surprised if it rolls over due to the swaying,
00:19:35right?
00:19:38Mr. Haris said earlier,
00:19:40that the authorities must indeed
00:19:43issue a kind of certificate. In the world
00:19:46of shipping, there's something called ISM Code, Mas Anggi. So, the
00:19:50ISM Code becomes an international standard that was issued
00:19:53after a ship accident in England called Herald of Free
00:19:56Enterprise. So, the ISM Code doesn't just check technical issues, but also administration.
00:20:00So, in the future, if there's an investigation, onshore operators
00:20:04and so on must also be checked. Maybe some don't have knowledge
00:20:08about shipping. So, they just hire people
00:20:11and pay them whatever they can afford,
00:20:14then they join the work and they don't understand. Okay,
00:20:18Professor, yes, we often still talk about technicalities. We often
00:20:21hear about the domino scenario where water enters, the ship lists, then the cargo
00:20:25shifts because the restraints fail to hold it, whether it's a truck or
00:20:28a car. Technically, at what point can this situation
00:20:32change from a listing ship to rapidly losing stability,
00:20:35Professor?
00:20:38Ship stability is the ability of the ship to
00:20:41return. So, if there is a list,
00:20:44it lists to one side, then the cargo shifts to the other side, it becomes
00:20:48lighter, right? So, it's like when we play
00:20:52as children, so if one side is too heavy, the person on
00:20:55the other side is light. The light side won't be able to turn it
00:20:59back because the other side is already very heavy. That's what happens. So, if the cargo
00:21:02shifts, it moves
00:21:06to the right, and the right side is too heavy, then I'm afraid it won't be able to return
00:21:10again. Okay, and that is affected by the lack of lashing and
00:21:14perhaps also, I'm sorry, too much cargo. Can this theory
00:21:17then reinforce the statements
00:21:21from the witnesses who said that the ship listed quickly,
00:21:24Professor? According to the laws of physics,
00:21:28we can model it, Mr. Anggi. So, if there is an investigation later, we can
00:21:32model it, whether that condition was true.
00:21:35So, people will be more convinced. So, usually, if there's
00:21:39proof, real evidence, people will be convinced, "Oh, yes, that's indeed the cause."
00:21:42So, cargo is heavy. So, if a truck or
00:21:46something shifts to the right, listing like that, there will be no force
00:21:50to return it to the other side, and it will continue, especially
00:21:53if water enters as well, that adds more weight, and finally,
00:21:57the ship capsizes. That's it.
00:22:00Okay, Mr. Haris, from the statements of passengers or witnesses
00:22:04that will later be verified by investigators, for example, regarding bad weather
00:22:08or emergency warnings, how important is such information, Mr. Haris,
00:22:11to assess whether safety procedures have been followed?
00:22:14berjalan
00:22:16Yes, of course, it's very important, because the passengers
00:22:20will definitely be able to tell
00:22:23what happened. Then,
00:22:26as Professor Ketut mentioned earlier,
00:22:29the investigation will not only involve
00:22:33maritime personnel or passengers, but also those on
00:22:37land. Because, the stability
00:22:40point, especially the
00:22:44cargo weight on the ship, is very important. Yesterday, in the
00:22:47MTI discussion, it came up that there was a "petro" or
00:22:51truck regulator, so to speak, who didn't have
00:22:54experience, didn't have anything to regulate the
00:22:58placement of vehicles entering the ship. Now, this shouldn't
00:23:02happen. This means we always
00:23:05urge, even every Eid,
00:23:09MTI submits recommendations to the
00:23:12government to, for example, quickly
00:23:15codify the vehicle
00:23:17loads on the ship,
00:23:20so that trucks are in one place, motorcycles
00:23:24are in another place, then cars are
00:23:27in another place. That
00:23:31will already be calculated
00:23:34from the perspective of the ship's center of gravity or stability.
00:23:37Its center of gravity. That's why I said earlier
00:23:41at the beginning of this presentation,
00:23:44it's about how, 1.5 hours
00:23:48before the ship departs, it is already known
00:23:52how many people, how many vehicles,
00:23:57is on board. So, the team,
00:24:02the ship or the crew, as well as the crew on land,
00:24:05can already coordinate regarding the placement or center of gravity
00:24:09mentioned earlier, so that when there is extreme weather, as Professor Ketut
00:24:13mentioned, if a ship lists, it can quickly return,
00:24:16it can perform a good stability analysis, then it can quickly
00:24:20make adjustments again, that's it,
00:24:23Mas Anggi. Okay, Mr. Haris, if we bring this up to the policy
00:24:26level, so after we saw this Virgo incident,
00:24:30earlier Mr. Haris mentioned that evaluating the
00:24:33regulator is very important, from A to Z. What
00:24:37can the public or passengers do themselves? What should
00:24:40they pay attention to from the moment they board the ship, Mr.
00:24:44Yes, well, of course, the public is easy, if
00:24:48the system, yes the system that is used,
00:24:52starting from when people buy tickets to board the ship,
00:24:55it is already well-systematized, it is already
00:24:58well-zoned. It's easy for the public,
00:25:02really. Why is it like that? If Indonesian people go to
00:25:06developed countries, they can be orderly because the system
00:25:09is well-organized. Actually, the public
00:25:13is, uh, uh, that's it.
00:25:16What needs to be educated is
00:25:19don't force yourself to board,
00:25:22don't force yourself to board if,
00:25:25for example, the maximum load, let's say,
00:25:28of a certain number of people has been met, don't force
00:25:32or don't compel to board. I once had an experience
00:25:35when I had to go to Sorong to
00:25:39Raja Ampat, and then people flocked
00:25:42to the ship. What I appreciated at that time
00:25:45was that we waited a long time on the ship,
00:25:49and then there was an announcement from the port authority
00:25:52that due to bad weather, the ship would
00:25:55not depart. I was grateful because the people who forced their way on at that
00:25:59time, that could be done when...
00:26:03it's well-systematized. If, let's say, you buy
00:26:06tickets now, at ASDP, there's a ferry. Now, that ferry
00:26:10should already know, but unfortunately, our ferry system
00:26:13is still only for entering the crossing
00:26:16or the crossing terminal, not for entering ship A, ship B, ship
00:26:20C. It can't do that yet. Now, if it could do that,
00:26:23then it would be much better. That's why, as I said, piloting is very
00:26:27important for how, starting from the
00:26:30land system, then entering
00:26:32the ship, it can really be done well. If that is successful,
00:26:36then immediately duplicate it to other places. The government must
00:26:40move quickly and there should be no more
00:26:43accidents. One life lost is too
00:26:46many. That's it, Mr. Angi. Alright, Professor. Do you have
00:26:49anything to add, Professor, regarding this matter, Professor?
00:26:53Yes, I'd like to complement what Mr. Haris said. When we
00:26:57fly on an airplane, I've sat in the
00:27:00front seat. When? I once deliberately bought a business class
00:27:04ticket to find out how the procedure was
00:27:08flown. So there's a checking, there are ground crew
00:27:11checking and so on until they give a thumbs up.
00:27:14Okay, the plane can fly. If it's not yet, it can't
00:27:17be done, no matter the time and so on. Well, on
00:27:21a ship, it should be the same. So the checks are carried out according
00:27:25to their respective fields, and the assigned personnel are trained people. Mr. Aris was right
00:27:29to say that the truck regulator on the ship is most likely
00:27:33untrained or poorly trained. So they just remove it. In an airport,
00:27:37that's not allowed. So all the crew are trained and perform
00:27:40their functions well. And we saw before that there were
00:27:43airplane accidents in Indonesia, so we were banned from flying to Europe, and
00:27:47eventually it was complied with. And finally, the level of aviation
00:27:50safety in Indonesia became very good again. Well, this should be
00:27:54imitated in maritime shipping. I think that's it from
00:27:58Mr. Haris' notes. Thank you, Mr. Anggi. Well, thank you,
00:28:01Professor Utut and also Mr. Haris, for your technical insights and from the transportation side. This is certainly
00:28:05very important to provide understanding to the public, while also waiting for the official investigation
00:28:09results to find out the full chain of causes of the Virgo incident. Good night,
00:28:12Professor and also Mr. Haris.
00:28:16And we will be back with more information. Viewers, please stay with us for
00:28:20prime time news. One of them is the Berau Health Department, East Kalimantan, which recorded
00:28:24more than 5,000 cases of ISPA
00:28:27due to the haze
00:28:28from forest fires.
00:28:39Presented
00:28:40by,
00:28:44supported
00:28:45by,
00:28:51The first time I drank Lay mineral, I briefly
00:28:54thought, how can there be water
00:28:58that's so fresh, like it's a little sweet? Where did
00:29:01that taste come from? Enjoy
00:29:46Top Cappuccino, Italian flavor from Wings
00:29:49Food.
00:29:51The first time I drank Lay mineral, I briefly
00:29:55thought, how can there be water
00:29:58that's so fresh, like it's a little sweet? Where did
00:30:01that taste come from? I saw the Lay mineral
00:30:04factory myself. The water comes from natural mountain
00:30:08springs, rich in natural minerals. And it turns out
00:30:11that these minerals are what make the water taste
00:30:14a little sweet. Lay mineral, healthy minerals
00:30:18protected. This Sunday, land mafia
00:30:22is real. Four people suspected of being Minister Nusron's right-hand men were caught
00:30:25in a sting operation for collecting and distributing billions
00:30:28of rupiah.
00:30:30The funds were given to smooth out the process of land
00:30:32services.
00:30:35How far can the flow of illegal funds be traced by
00:30:37the KPK?
00:30:40The corruption network in the land office on Metro
00:30:43This Week, Sunday, September 20th,
00:30:46at 10:30
00:30:47PM.
00:30:51The first time I drank Lay mineral, I briefly
00:30:55thought, how can there be water
00:30:58that's so fresh, like it's a little sweet?