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00:00:17You're watching Headline News. Former Deputy Minister of Immigration and Corrections,
00:00:20Silmi Karim, underwent a trial for the reading of a defense plea in the case
00:00:23of alleged extortion concerning the processing
00:00:26Listyo Sigit Prabowo. Moreover, the system of foreign nationals' stay permits at the Jakarta Anti-Corruption Court on Thursday afternoon.
00:00:29Facing the panel of judges, Silmi asserted that she had never committed
00:00:33extortion as accused by the public prosecutor. Silmi
00:00:36Karim could not hold back her tears while reading her defense plea
00:00:40at the Jakarta Anti-Corruption Court. In her defense,
00:00:44Silmi denied the accusation that she knew, allowed,
00:00:48or enjoyed the results of alleged extortion related to limited stay permits
00:00:51for foreign nationals. Silmi believes that the prosecutor did not clearly
00:00:54describe who was forced to give money,
00:00:58and which permit applications were deliberately made difficult. Silmi also stated that
00:01:01the digitalization of BNA stay permit processing that she initiated when
00:01:05in office was aimed at closing loopholes
00:01:07for irregularities.
00:01:12what I did in immigration.
00:01:14You can check the significant changes yourself, you can check
00:01:17yourself, right?
00:01:19But
00:01:22the reward is becoming a defendant.
00:01:25That is a form
00:01:28of criminalization which... for me is very
00:01:30cruel.
00:01:32did not disclose who the The legal event that
00:01:35there would be nothing to was applied to Mr. Silmi
00:01:38Karim, I compare it with
00:01:42the case of Mr. Tom Lembong, Mr.
00:01:45Nadim,
00:01:47Mr. Gusiakut, there's no difference
00:01:50right? Exactly the same,
00:01:54just in a different frame, but
00:01:58it's the same, it's the same.
00:02:00In my opinion, there has been
00:02:03criminalization against
00:02:06an action carried out by
00:02:09the CEO of PTKAI, Bobby Rasyidin, met
00:02:12Indonesian President Prabowo Subianto at the Presidential Palace in Jakarta on Thursday
00:02:15afternoon. Bobby said he came because he was called by Seskap Lieutenant Colonel
00:02:19TNI Tedy Indrawijaya. But when asked about the topic of discussion with
00:02:23the president today, Bobby claimed he didn't know. Bobby then rushed into
00:02:26the palace in a hurry. He appeared to be wearing.
00:02:32reveal what
00:03:09"Commander, it turns out humans have many activities on the internet, so we have to
00:03:13multiply ourselves. The amazing thing is that the connection at home can
00:03:17lawful interception that reach everything from meetings, live streaming, learning
00:03:21with AI, playing games, to watching hundreds
00:03:24of channels and various streaming applications. This is their
00:03:27secret, connections are twice as fast, so..." it can run
00:03:30simultaneously. With IndiHome, it turns out being human
00:03:33is fun. Everyone gets what
00:03:36they want with IndiHome.
00:03:44Presented
00:03:45by
00:03:49at what National Police Chief General Suyudi
00:03:52Ario Seto stated that the handling of illegal wiretapping cases is purely
00:03:57Mr. Suparji, so far, the articles a law enforcement process and is not related to competition or specific interests within
00:04:01the institution. The National Police Chief also asked all ranks to remain focused on maintaining public
00:04:05safety and order.
00:04:09are state apparatus, right? And The arrest of
00:04:13If that's what was several police officers related to the wiretapping
00:04:16case that we are currently
00:04:19handling, and this of course
00:04:23needs to be a lesson for
00:04:26all of us, and
00:04:31"We want the Police to remain solid,
00:04:34to remain a pillar of
00:04:37society, and we are confident that currently
00:04:41the Police are very solid, and
00:04:44of course, for all members throughout Indonesia
00:04:47to continue to work well, to carry
00:04:50out their duties of maintaining public order, always
00:04:54with the community according to our slogan, our collective slogan,
00:04:58which is 'Police with the Community'."
00:05:01and we assure you that this is all
00:05:04purely a matter of law enforcement, right?
00:05:07There is no connection with
00:05:09competition or anything else, but... This
00:05:12is purely for the good of the police institution
00:05:16that we love, in order to provide services and protection to
00:05:20the community. Let alone ordinary citizens,
00:05:24even the president can be wiretapped. This has become a public concern
00:05:27following the exposure of the wiretapping scandal against President Prabowo
00:05:31Subianto and other political figures, allegedly carried out
00:05:35by former National Police Chief General
00:05:38used, Lims, is a system commonly used
00:05:42by law enforcement officials to investigate legal
00:05:45cases.
00:05:52from my intelligence, I
00:05:53have it,
00:05:56this, from police intelligence,
00:05:59I have it from intelligence in the PNI,
00:06:03don't tell me this is where the wiretapping problem
00:06:06started, it's possible. We'll wait
00:06:10for the proof.
00:06:15The unraveling of the intelligence scandal targeting the president and political
00:06:19party figures reminds the public of Joko Widodo's statement
00:06:23in September 2023. At that time,
00:06:26Jokowi, who was still president, claimed to have complete data on
00:06:30the direction of political parties from intelligence information. While reminding
00:06:34volunteers not to choose the wrong leader in the 2024 presidential
00:06:37election. I
00:06:39know what kind of parties. I
00:06:43know
00:06:47what kind of parties I
00:06:49know
00:06:51where they want to go. I also
00:06:53understand. The information I receive
00:06:57is complete. From my intelligence, I
00:07:01have it. From police
00:07:05intelligence, I have it. From PNI
00:07:09intelligence, I have it, sir.
00:07:14And outside information is
00:07:17numbers, data, surveys, everything.
00:07:21aja.
00:07:23So what is the motive behind the wiretapping scandal allegedly carried out by
00:07:27former police chief Listyo Sigit Prabowo and two other police
00:07:30officers? There is a political motive
00:07:34behind this. There is a political motive that
00:07:37must be proven in the investigation, and I
00:07:41am not convinced. If this wiretapping only started
00:07:44in 2025, perhaps he had already done
00:07:47it before, because there was an event in
00:07:512023 where President Jokowi at that time
00:07:54firmly said, "I know what
00:07:58is happening in political parties according to my
00:08:01intelligence report, according to the Police. Don't tell
00:08:05me this is where the wiretapping problem started."
00:08:08Meanwhile, the platform allegedly used by the perpetrators
00:08:12to wiretap the president and politicians is Lims,
00:08:15a platform for legal wiretapping that should be used
00:08:19in the context of law enforcement, including by
00:08:21the Police. So Lims
00:08:25is actually a platform used for
00:08:30is placed on the operator's
00:08:33system, where in that operator's
00:08:36system it will be connected
00:08:39to each monitoring center. It functions to
00:08:42run the legal
00:08:50wiretapping flow,
00:08:54namely lawful interception. Now, lawful interception starts
00:08:57with a request for permission
00:09:01from the court to wiretap a certain
00:09:03target. Now, in that court permission
00:09:07letter, it will state the target number, the duration
00:09:11of how long it will be and then
00:09:14what content and so on. From
00:09:18there, Lims will be tasked
00:09:21with carrying out its duty to send
00:09:25that wiretapping data from Lims to
00:09:28the police monitoring center. It only needs the phone number of the person to be
00:09:32tapped, right? That's right, it only needs the number, so no
00:09:36special tapping device is needed, just the number is entered
00:09:40into Lims, that's right.
00:10:25then it was also reported that there were
00:10:28party leaders, including community organization
00:10:31figures. This, of course, from
00:10:34what's his name, our
00:10:37intention also
00:10:40makes us wonder, as media
00:10:43friends asked, what is the purpose of this?
00:10:47But the full and detailed
00:10:50information, we await it from the investigation team. Metro TV news.
00:10:57Viewers, the case of illegal wiretapping and access against President Prabowo
00:11:01continues to unfold and has already named three suspects, including former
00:11:05National Police Chief Listyo Sigit Prabowo. However, the question remains
00:11:08why this wiretapping could happen, and what are its implications, considering
00:11:12that the people being wiretapped are the president and other important figures in
00:11:15this country. And where does the order for this wiretapping come from? We
00:11:19will discuss this with Mr. Suparji Ahmad, a criminal
00:11:23law expert. Good evening, Mr.
00:11:30investigators are also investigating the alleged
00:11:34deletion of wiretapping recordings. What
00:11:37are the implications if this is proven
00:11:39to have happened? Yes,
00:11:43that with the
00:11:46deletion of data
00:11:49indicates an ill intention, right?
00:11:53If it wasn't
00:11:56deleted, then
00:12:00worry about regarding the results of
00:12:03that wiretap, you see. So, with the deletion
00:12:07of that data, it indicates
00:12:11a malicious motive in the context of
00:12:14wiretapping, because that's why
00:12:17it was shown that that data
00:12:19was deleted. If, for example,
00:12:22the wiretapping was in the context of
00:12:25providing protection, security to the person
00:12:28concerned or preventing other
00:12:31criminal elements, then that data
00:12:35should have been something that needed to be preserved,
00:12:38something that could be used or could
00:12:42then be utilized. So, this becomes a clue
00:12:45that there is a malicious motive, there is an ill motive in
00:12:49the context of that wiretapping. However, investigators
00:12:53should not stop there to
00:12:57the wiretap results were, right? It shouldn't
00:13:00stop because
00:13:03the wiretap was already deleted. It can
00:13:06be done with other methods, for example, with
00:13:10the operator of the phone used
00:13:14or with other tracking methods, right? Now, this is what I'm
00:13:18worried about, that it seems that with the
00:13:22deleted wiretap results, then
00:13:25it will stop or channelize this case
00:13:28so it's not fully resolved. So we truly
00:13:32hope that the investigation process for
00:13:36this case is completed,
00:13:39what the motive is, what
00:13:41has been done, and what the wiretap results are, and don't
00:13:45let it then localize
00:13:49with the argument that the wiretap
00:13:52results have been deleted, you see. This I think will become
00:13:55an anti-climax and cause
00:13:58concern in the future that
00:14:01people have been tapped, people have no guarantee of protection
00:14:05for their private rights, their privacy rights, because why?
00:14:09Because law enforcement is not complete. If
00:14:13this law enforcement process was complete, reaching
00:14:15its roots, including processing the
00:14:19wiretap results, then it would give the public
00:14:22confidence that our law enforcement is serious about handling
00:14:26this case, because in my opinion, this is a very serious
00:14:29case. Firstly, the perpetrators
00:14:34one of the people tapped is the head of state. I think this is important,
00:14:37you see. Alright, Mr. Suparji, for complete law enforcement,
00:14:41it means that the police investigators also need
00:14:44to confirm whether the wiretapping results were ever copied,
00:14:47transferred, stored, or even given to other parties,
00:14:51sir. Yes, that's right, I agree that...
00:14:55It's like in TPP, "follow the money," this is
00:14:59"follow the data" where it goes. Follow this data to where it goes, you see.
00:15:03Who accessed it, who exploited
00:15:06it, who received
00:15:09the data stream, and for what purpose was that data
00:15:13used? That's important to do
00:15:16so that it can build
00:15:19public trust in law enforcement, so that the
00:15:22law enforcement process is complete, you see. Not just stopping
00:15:26because it was already deleted, finally not
00:15:29tracing the acquisition of that data, the utilization
00:15:33of that data, because if that happens, once again I
00:15:37say... then the law enforcement process, including in
00:15:40this wiretapping case, will not be complete. Because, once again, this
00:15:44wiretapping is very serious, because why? Because
00:15:47it is of course in the context of
00:15:50collecting information, and collecting information is part
00:15:53of the preparatory act in the context of treason, right? And
00:15:57the person tapped is the head of state, which further
00:16:00confirms that there is an element of treason, right?
00:16:04Especially if the perpetrators are also state apparatus.
00:16:07"The only question is how to construct
00:16:11the motivation behind the wiretapping process.
00:16:14Is the motivation for this wiretapping to attack,
00:16:18overthrow the government, or attack the head of state? If
00:16:21that happens and the element of treason is met, then
00:16:25this motive is important to investigate, and investigating
00:16:28the motive cannot be done by only relying on
00:16:32the parties being questioned, on the suspects, because
00:16:35most likely they will not confess to the real motive,
00:16:39but the fulfillment or
00:16:42discovery of this motive can be done
00:16:45from the wiretap results. For example,
00:16:49if this wiretapping was done at certain times
00:16:52when discussing, for instance, state security or
00:16:56discussing government policy, that can later be used as
00:17:00an analysis. Oh, it turns out the wiretapping was only on certain
00:17:03segments related to, for example, certain policies
00:17:07and perhaps this will be used to do certain
00:17:10things and so on. So, once again, to be able to
00:17:14find the motive of the wiretapping, one way is to
00:17:18look at the process and results of that wiretapping.
00:17:22So, if we don't get the wiretap results, it's difficult
00:17:25to find the motive of that wiretapping, right? Okay,
00:17:29alright, Mr. Suparji, in terms of criminal law, does unauthorized wiretapping and
00:17:32acts of treason have the same or different legal constructions?
00:17:36There is a similarity
00:17:39and there is a comparison or
00:17:42a difference or subsequent actions, right?
00:17:46The similarity is that in this
00:17:49context, wiretapping was done against the head
00:17:53of state. This fulfills the elements of treason, right?
00:17:56Then in the context of treason, there were
00:17:59preparatory acts that were committed. The preparatory acts
00:18:03that were committed were collection. This wiretapping is part of information
00:18:08gathering. Now, it's just a matter of looking at the
00:18:11next element, the intention and the
00:18:15purpose, right? The intention,
00:18:18the intention is indeed to commit wiretapping, and the purpose
00:18:22is, for example, to attack the head of state or
00:18:26the government. So, this wiretapping is
00:18:29part, part of the element of treason,
00:18:32but it needs to be followed up in the context
00:18:35of the motive, in the context of the purpose, in the context
00:18:39of the subsequent actions, and in
00:18:41the context of those wiretap results. So, we cannot
00:18:45simply say that this wiretapping is
00:18:48treason, but it needs to be supported with
00:18:51other evidence, the fulfillment of the element of treason, that the
00:18:55element of treason is related to attacking, yes, attacking,
00:18:59overthrowing, making, for example, the head of state not
00:19:02independent, or overthrowing the legitimate government
00:19:06illegally. That's it. Or then in the context
00:19:10of, for example, separating from the government of the unitary
00:19:13state of Indonesia and so on. So, this needs
00:19:17to be investigated to determine whether this is
00:19:21treason or not. This is by looking
00:19:26was tapped, what the wiretap results were,
00:19:29and where the wiretap was channeled to, right? Okay, alright,
00:19:34applied by law enforcement officials to the suspects are still focused on cyber
00:19:38crimes and illegal wiretapping, not the offense of overthrowing
00:19:42power. What is your response?
00:19:45In my opinion, this is still the beginning, so further investigation is needed.
00:19:51done, I think the elements I mentioned
00:19:54earlier have been met. But the public, I think, is
00:19:58waiting to see
00:20:00the income from other acts
00:20:04committed to meet the elements of other
00:20:08criminal offenses. So, in my opinion, we
00:20:10are very much looking forward to
00:20:14the seriousness of the investigators
00:20:17to investigate the fulfillment of the elements
00:20:20of other criminal offenses,
00:20:23and not to stop with the argument
00:20:26that the data has been
00:20:29deleted, okay? Because indeed, when the data has been
00:20:33deleted, the consequence is not fulfilled, right? Finally,
00:20:36the formal offense is fulfilled, only wiretapping, illegal
00:20:40wiretapping, while in the context of treason, there needs
00:20:44to be material evidence about the elements of treason, and that
00:20:47can be found from looking at the wiretap results.
00:20:51So, once again, the public or I personally,
00:20:54so that this has a deterrent effect and a good
00:20:58lesson for the future, then further investigation of the fulfillment
00:21:01of other elements is needed, okay? Mr. Subarji, let alone
00:21:05ordinary citizens, even the president can be wiretapped. This then becomes a public concern following
00:21:09the exposure of this wiretapping scandal. To what extent can the law protect citizens,
00:21:13sir?
00:21:15Yes, so this is important, right, for the DPR, for the government,
00:21:19to immediately discuss
00:21:22the wiretapping law, right? That this wiretapping
00:21:26law is part of the coercive efforts regulated in the Criminal Procedure Code, and
00:21:29its rules are that wiretapping is allowed if
00:21:33it's for law enforcement purposes. But each
00:21:36institution, the KPK, the police, and the
00:21:39prosecutor's office, have their own sectoral
00:21:43wiretapping mechanisms, including intelligence and so on. Therefore,
00:21:47in my opinion, in order to provide protection to
00:21:51the community, regulation regarding wiretapping must be
00:21:54important so that it is clearer, more certain, more
00:21:57decisive, right? So that the community is protected, because
00:22:01it is true that it sounds simple
00:22:04that even the president can be wiretapped, let alone ordinary
00:22:07people. And if ordinary people are wiretapped, then
00:22:10their human rights, their
00:22:13privacy, and so on are not
00:22:17protected. So, this of course becomes a global
00:22:20spotlight, international public, that the president's
00:22:23privacy protection, security protection is so
00:22:27weak, that it can be wiretapped like that, you see. Alright, Mr. Suparji, we will
00:22:31wait to see how the investigators proceed with this illegal
00:22:34wiretapping case. Thank you, Mr. Suparji Ahmad,
00:22:38for joining us tonight on Prime Time
00:22:41News. Viewers, the Gerindra party suspects
00:22:44a large agenda and certain interests behind the wiretapping
00:22:48of President. Prabowo. More information coming
00:22:51soon.
00:23:00Presented by
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00:23:41busy.
00:23:49Sir,
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00:24:01news
00:24:05journey every Sunday at 10
00:24:08AM.
00:24:15presented
00:24:16by
00:24:22against the suspects, who allegedly
00:24:24carried out illegal wiretapping
00:24:28or illegal tapping of the phone
00:24:31number of the President of the Republic
00:24:33of Indonesia.
00:24:37This modern era has many ears that want
00:24:40to hear.
00:24:45This is absolutely
00:24:48treason.
00:24:55Viewers, the chairman of Commission 3 of the DPR, Habiburrahman, admitted
00:24:59to being disappointed if it was proven that the leaders and members of Commission 3
00:25:03were also wiretapped by former police chief Listyo Sigit Prabowo. Habib
00:25:06supported Listyo during his tenure as
00:25:10police chief. Habiburrahman expressed surprise at
00:25:13the emergence of the alleged illegal wiretapping scandal against the leaders and members
00:25:17of Commission 3 of the DPR RI, even though, according to
00:25:20him, Commission 3 of the DPR has always defended and
00:25:23supported former police chief Listyo Sigit Prabowo, who is now
00:25:27a suspect in the alleged illegal wiretapping against the president
00:25:30and other public figures. Furthermore, Habib referred to this illegal
00:25:34wiretapping as an act of insubordination against
00:25:37superiors within the institution. 25 alleged
00:25:39violators who were not professional. If we were
00:25:43illegally tapped, then of course we are disappointed.
00:25:46Just like what you just mentioned, you also praised
00:25:50Mr. Listyo at that time, and perhaps you can explain, sir, at that time the context was
00:25:54the same as Mr. Prabowo, who praised him several times, right?
00:25:57Yes, we always believe that what we said
00:26:01was true at that time, right? Yes, if there is later
00:26:04a fact and it is proven that the person concerned
00:26:08committed an illegal act, even insubordination,
00:26:12this is a very, very sensitive issue in state
00:26:16life, of course,
00:26:19we hand it over to the legal process to be dealt with
00:26:22accordingly.
00:26:28Habiburrahman also revealed that Commission 3 of the DPR targeted
00:26:31the discussion to be held in December
00:26:34as an effort to provide legal protection for all citizens from
00:26:38illegal wiretapping practices. The alleged
00:26:40wiretapping scandal against the president and a number of political figures is considered
00:26:44a momentum to strengthen regulations regarding the authority
00:26:48and procedures for
00:26:49wiretapping.
00:26:53It seems it's already done, right? We just need to push it further. God willing,
00:26:56this law will be completed. What is it called, the asset forfeiture law? Tomorrow
00:27:00it will be the judge's position law, the
00:27:03advocate law, and the wiretapping law. So,
00:27:07those three laws will also be pushed in this period,
00:27:10this period will tighten regulations related to wiretapping,
00:27:14tighten and clarify, right? Don't let
00:27:17citizens' rights be violated by illegal
00:27:20wiretapping. Former Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs, Mahfud MD,
00:27:24openly suspected that the wiretapping products by Listo and others
00:27:28against President Prabowo flowed all the way to Solo.
00:27:31However, Mahfud
00:27:35Solo party was.
00:27:38people then
00:27:41talk about treason because from the results
00:27:44of what, the results
00:27:47of, let's say, leaked sources, the product
00:27:50of these wiretapping results, the final
00:27:53product, reached Solo, so
00:27:57whatever these people will do, they already
00:28:01know the direction of everything.
00:29:02others, if there are indications that there are
00:29:05other forces that involved in this
00:29:08wiretapping case, I hope the police institution
00:29:12can thoroughly investigate it, as thoroughly as possible, so that this does not
00:29:16become a polemic in the future, but if we
00:29:19think clearly, what is the motive of a Prabowo
00:29:23who has, let's say, been trusted by our president to be
00:29:26the Chief of Police during his administration for these 2 years and then
00:29:29still, let's say, given the mandate as... KSP,
00:29:33the Head of Presidential Staff can dare to and have the heart to carry out
00:29:37the wiretapping, there must be motives that are not just personal motives,
00:29:40there must be a bigger motive, whether it's political motives and so on, I think this is what needs
00:29:43to be deepened and investigated thoroughly In the meantime,
00:29:47the Secretary General of the Democratic Party
00:29:50Herman Hairon assessed that the wiretapping
00:29:53against President Prabowo could not stand alone because
00:29:57it involved a number of aspects, ranging from technology policy to the parties who
00:30:01carried out the operation. Fully handing over the disclosure
00:30:04of this case to law enforcement and hoping that the investigation
00:30:07runs professionally and
00:30:09transparently.
00:30:13Yes, hopefully later
00:30:16the police can reveal it yes and of course the most
00:30:19important thing is for what is that wiretapping for
00:30:23and at whose command?
00:30:26what is the interest? Well, these are the questions that I think
00:30:29will be processed. tested by
00:30:33the police and of course until today we respect that process
00:30:36do not assume and hopefully law enforcement
00:30:40can be carried out
00:30:44as strictly as possible and in a
00:30:47transparent and professional manner so as to provide
00:30:50peace to all citizens of the country.
00:30:54Former Chairman of the Ombudsman Harry Susanto was sentenced to 5
00:30:57years in prison in the publication case.