Bosnia and Herzegovina: N1 Bosnia and Herzegovina

20260810 08:00 UTC · 00:30:59 · 536 transcript segments · GDELT Visual Explorer · plain-text transcript · Event Map

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Transcript

Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.

00:00:00I say
00:00:02affects the climate, it affects the there is a really big, big need to rationally
00:00:04prescribe antibiotics, so tell me, and I want to
00:00:08ask you this, besides the fact that rational prescription of
00:00:12antibiotics is important, please guide us a little on the difference between
00:00:15probiotics and prebiotics. Until recently,
00:00:19we needed to take probiotics, especially if we travel, we encounter some
00:00:23environment that our intestinal flora is not used to. Now
00:00:26they say if you don't take prebiotics, then... those
00:00:30probiotics are actually useless.
00:00:33Actually, prebiotics are food for probiotics,
00:00:36or rather, they are food for those good bacteria, those probiotic
00:00:39species. So, by taking probiotics, we create
00:00:43good bacteria, and with prebiotics, we feed
00:00:45and maintain them. Is that basically
00:00:49it? What I want to tell you is that, for example, before, we didn't have any probiotics,
00:00:53you understand? Now it's a whole , shall we say,
00:00:56plethora of probiotics in the pharmaceutical industry.
00:01:00In the industry, you have the most probiotics. It seems
00:01:04to me, as an infectologist, we more, believe me, I don't know the order, sometimes I
00:01:07most often write probiotics, you understand, no, no, no I'm not saying
00:01:10unless I have something specific to say, "Go take this for that
00:01:14reason," this is good that we have so many probiotics on
00:01:18the market, let's say in the broadest sense of the word probiotic, whether
00:01:21it's prebiotics or a combination or just probiotics, it's not bad to
00:01:25take them for a certain period. Even today, according to nutritional
00:01:29recommendations, probiotics should be part of our
00:01:32daily diet, it's especially good to take them, for example, if
00:01:36we travel, if we are, for example, at risk of developing
00:01:39traveler's diarrhea or similar, but we must, for example, know that sauerkraut
00:01:43has a lot of, you know, those probiotic cultures, that
00:01:46kefir is something that is phenomenal, so we practically
00:01:49, with a balanced diet, then you see, on the other hand, they are not medicines,
00:01:53I mean, they are not real medicines, they are OTC, right? That means
00:01:56they are practically a support, they are not like that for me either.
00:02:00So, not everyone can afford that, you know. I
00:02:04say it's not bad, I say according to nutritionists, whoever can, it would
00:02:07be good for those probiotics to be part of our diet, probiotics or prebiotics, whatever
00:02:11it is, to be an integral part of our daily diet, but we also need to be
00:02:14aware of the food that contains a large
00:02:18number for centuries, right, like kefir,
00:02:21like sauerkraut and so on. But I will
00:02:25still return a little to antibiotics, because we are really
00:02:29fighting a big battle. As infectologists, I will tell you a very
00:02:32interesting fact, uh, it has been noticed for
00:02:36years now that children are getting sick, getting sick in large numbers from
00:02:40autoimmune diseases, meaning juvenile idiopathic arthritis and
00:02:43similar, not just with us, but globally, uh, they tried
00:02:46to find out the reason, so they tried to find out
00:02:50why it's happening like that, it was never so much before in the last year, for example, the last
00:02:54ten years, it's not even important now, it's really noticed that there is a huge, that there is an explosion of these
00:02:58diseases, which is not at all trivial, considering that these
00:03:01children have to receive immunosuppressive therapy for life, which
00:03:05practically brings that autoimmune disease under control, but it disrupts
00:03:09health in a broader sense of the word.
00:03:13I concluded at a congress in Bologna that this is most likely a consequence
00:03:17of a disturbed microbiome, you know , that's exactly the disrupted immunity
00:03:21that happens when antibiotics are taken a lot and there is a
00:03:24really serious imbalance of our
00:03:28good gut bacteria.
00:03:30That's very logical. Children most often suffer from these autoimmune diseases,
00:03:34and that's school-age. There are no rules, but
00:03:37sector is not up to practically it's school-age children, who are already at the earliest age given
00:03:40a lot of, how can I say, my dear, because every child,
00:03:43for example, has the right, at preschool age, to be
00:03:47febrile up to two times a month, yes. And you will probably
00:03:51agree that there are some practices to give antibiotics for an
00:03:54elevated temperature, which is a very, very wrong approach. So
00:03:58we need to be rational. 90% of these
00:04:01fevers, these high temperatures, are actually
00:04:04viruses. I think that we, as a nation and
00:04:08generally, are educated enough to know that antibiotics only work against
00:04:12bacteria. So we give antibiotics, we disrupt
00:04:15health, we burden the liver, we destroy those
00:04:19good bacteria that we need, we create a big mess. So there is
00:04:22no benefit. I say, God grant that we can say, "Go take
00:04:26antibiotics, it doesn't matter, if it helps, it helps, if it doesn't help, it doesn't matter." It
00:04:30matters a lot. That's what was done during Corona, doctor. Your Corona has
00:04:33contributed quite a bit to these
00:04:36resistances. Because today, unfortunately, besides that, but to me,
00:04:40the most important thing is this for children, you know, that really
00:04:43children who will have some virus every
00:04:46month, that we be very careful in
00:04:49prescribing antibiotics as parents, as pediatricians,
00:04:53ultimately other specialties, you know, because that child will very
00:04:57easily get five to six antibiotics in one year. "And then it's no
00:05:00wonder, you understand, if it was febrile every month, and
00:05:04one course of antibiotics, I won't, I mean,
00:05:07azithromycin, that's the generic name, I can say, it's taken for three
00:05:11days, it takes a year." A child takes a year for the
00:05:14microbiome to regenerate, just from that one three-day course.
00:05:18This is a very important topic, and I will just
00:05:20mention that not only us, unfortunately, we are not lagging behind
00:05:24the world at all, in the world we already have intrahospital
00:05:27bacteria, which is normal, because in the hospital there is a large, large
00:05:30concentration of pathogens that are not sensitive to any
00:05:34antibiotic, and all of this is a consequence of the irrational use
00:05:37of antibiotics. These are huge alarms, this deserves a separate topic, I will try
00:05:41to talk about it some other
00:05:44time. This time, we focused on stomach
00:05:47viruses, on the microbiome which is very important, but here we have opened
00:05:51some new ones, I will schedule a new get-together for next time. Thank you for all
00:05:55these very valuable tips, I believe that we will help many who are watching us this morning.
00:05:59Thank you for the invitation, I just hope it was useful for those who
00:06:02watched, I'm sure it was, thank you
00:06:06for being with us this morning from 8 am, stay tuned, the Sarajevo
00:06:09Film Festival is approaching, so we will check what's up with
00:06:13the tickets, what's up with the box offices, are they already full and
00:06:16how many people will visit Sarajevo these days
00:06:20precisely because of the Sarajevo Film Festival. We will talk about all this soon with our
00:06:23Feđa, stay with
00:06:24us.
00:06:32We'll be back soon with current topics and guests. The sponsor
00:06:35of the show is the General Hospital Medikana
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00:11:06We return to the show, New Day, sponsored by the General
00:11:10Hospital Medikana Sarajevo.
00:11:23Ticket sales for the 32nd edition of the
00:11:27Sarajevo Film Festival officially begin today at the box office in BKC. What
00:11:31is the public's interest already on the first day and which films are visitors most
00:11:34looking for? Let's check with our reporter Feđa
00:11:38Kulin. Feđa, can you already feel the festival fever?
00:11:42Are there people who rushed to be the first to buy their
00:11:46tickets for the Sarajevo Film
00:11:47Festival?
00:11:50There certainly are, Minela. There are big crowds
00:11:53outside and inside the BKC. Many people
00:11:57came early to buy tickets for
00:12:00their desired films. Some even came at 4
00:12:04in the morning, believe it or not, and they are standing
00:12:07or sitting there the whole time. They brought folding
00:12:10chairs, some here to make the waiting easier.
00:12:13Truly numerous film lovers
00:12:17are here. They say they don't mind waiting,
00:12:21even though online ticket sales started
00:12:25at the beginning of last week. They say this
00:12:28physical sale, physical way of buying
00:12:32is safer, that it's already a tradition here, socializing
00:12:36and waiting in line. With us this morning is Andrijana
00:12:39Kopf, spokesperson for the Sarajevo Film
00:12:42Festival, who will tell us more about the festival. First of
00:12:46all, good morning and thank you for speaking to N1. So,
00:12:49what do these crowds tell us this morning about the Sarajevo Film
00:12:53Festival? Is there great interest?
00:12:57Good morning, thank you for coming here to the Main Box Office at
00:13:00the Bosnian Cultural Center, which opened just now at
00:13:0410 o'clock. What do they tell us? They
00:13:07tell us about the great interest of the audience
00:13:10in the programs and films of the 32nd Sarajevo Film
00:13:14Festival, which begins on Friday and will run
00:13:18until August 21st. They tell
00:13:21us that we also have our regular audience. We saw here in...
00:13:25In line this morning from early morning hours
00:13:28some buyers who are already traditionally with us among
00:13:31the first 10 buyers whom we reward with 10
00:13:34free tickets each and a poster for
00:13:37this year's festival. It simply
00:13:40speaks to the fact that people, the audience, citizens, and
00:13:44tourists embrace this festival as their own, that
00:13:48they see it as their own, that they live along with the city and the festival.
00:13:52That is what makes us extremely happy.
00:13:55For which we owe enormous gratitude to our
00:13:57audience. As I said, online
00:14:01ticket sales began last week.
00:14:05Some said they had some minor difficulties with online
00:14:08purchases. Many still come here to buy
00:14:11in person. How many tickets have been sold so far, do
00:14:15you have any data? Is there great
00:14:18interest? There is great, very great
00:14:22interest in this year's program.
00:14:25We have resolved the difficulties, that was
00:14:29probably, you are talking about the first day of advance
00:14:32ticket sales, when a large number of
00:14:34users who wanted to buy immediately, probably for
00:14:38a specific screening, online
00:14:41sales are still ongoing, of course, and will continue until the end
00:14:45of the festival, as well as the physical sale
00:14:47of tickets. For online ticket sales,
00:14:51certain discounts are available thanks to partners from...
00:14:55sponsors of the Sarajevo Film Festival, so for Mastercard
00:14:58cardholders there is a 20% discount,
00:15:01an additional 10% discount thanks to Unicredit
00:15:05Bank. The interest is huge,
00:15:08last year we had record ticket sales, and
00:15:11this year, precisely according to the first day of online
00:15:14pre-sales that you mentioned, sales are
00:15:1820% higher than the previous year, so
00:15:21the interest is huge. We try to
00:15:25accommodate our audience as much as possible, whether it's
00:15:29additional screenings, here the locations are
00:15:33from the Old Town to
00:15:35Ilidža,
00:15:3723 locations, numerous locations, all programs
00:15:41are in the festival journal, we invite the audience to
00:15:45check the screening schedule, to see where all these films
00:15:48are shown, if they are not on the date or at
00:15:52the location where they really want to watch them, to find
00:15:56that film and watch it at another location, which they may not have
00:16:00been to before, but will discover now in another time slot, so
00:16:03we invite everyone who may not have...
00:16:07obtained their tickets to follow the website and social media
00:16:11of the Sarajevo Film Festival, where we will regularly update
00:16:14all additional screenings, additional
00:16:17times, and any information about the screening
00:16:20schedule. Which screenings,
00:16:23or rather, which films are most sought after this
00:16:27year, and what is the specificity
00:16:30of this year's edition of the Sarajevo Film Festival? Well,
00:16:34the specificity, the specificity of every Sarajevo
00:16:37festival is a quality program above all.
00:16:41What I can emphasize this year is
00:16:44that on August 13th, the day before the ceremonial opening
00:16:48of the festival, at the Coca-Cola Open-Air Cinema, we are showing
00:16:52a classic of Bosnian-Herzegovinian cinematography with free
00:16:55admission. That is Woman in a Landscape by Ivica
00:16:58Matić, on August 13th at 8:30 PM.
00:17:01Free tickets can be picked up online or here at
00:17:05the Main Box Office. We are opening the festival
00:17:09with Pawel Pawlikowski's film "Cold War," his latest film which won
00:17:13the award for best director at this year's Cannes
00:17:16Film Festival. I believe that the festival audience is well
00:17:19acquainted with Pawlikowski's work. We opened the Sarajevo Film Festival
00:17:22with his film "Cold War" in 2018.
00:17:25I can mention, emphasize in fact, that
00:17:28the 32nd Sarajevo Film Festival will be
00:17:32closed with a digitized version
00:17:35of Danis Tanović's "No Man's Land," an Oscar
00:17:39winner. So, also a restored version that is
00:17:43being shown for the first time in Sarajevo,
00:17:46to the festival audience. A film
00:17:49that marked a new page
00:17:53in Bosnian-Herzegovinian cinematography, which for
00:17:55BiH film, I don't need to tell you its
00:17:59significance. Danis Tanović will, of course, be with the film
00:18:01crew at that screening at the festival.
00:18:05An opportunity for those of us who have seen that film to watch it
00:18:09together on the big screen, an opportunity for new
00:18:13generations to also
00:18:16see it perhaps together in a different
00:18:19environment, in a different way, and an opportunity to be reminded
00:18:23how important the theme of that film is and how strong
00:18:26and current it still is.
00:18:30Thank you very much for the interview, we won't keep you any longer, you're busy,
00:18:34it's crowded, thank you. So,
00:18:37you've heard what awaits us this year at the 32nd
00:18:41Sarajevo Film Festival, which will be held from August
00:18:4514th to 21st. Numerous
00:18:48film achievements, as you could hear and
00:18:51see, the interest is
00:18:53enormous, and there's no doubt that Sarajevo will become the center
00:18:56of the region in the coming days, as well as the film
00:19:00capital in this part of
00:19:02Europe. Sarajevo Film Festival, Feđa,
00:19:06thank you very much for... this first report before the
00:19:10very opening of the Sarajevo Film Festival, which will follow at the end
00:19:13of the week. We are all looking forward to it, we love Sarajevo
00:19:17as it is those few days, we love it
00:19:20on other days too, but especially during the Sarajevo Film Festival, and
00:19:23when we have the opportunity to show ourselves as good hosts and
00:19:27as a place of good films, stay with us,
00:19:31next we're talking about something that might slightly
00:19:34disrupt this good hospitality, but we can't
00:19:37influence that, those are climate changes and extreme heat.
00:19:50These extreme heat and climate changes have once again highlighted
00:19:54the importance of green spaces in cities, and experts warn that trees are one
00:19:58of the best ways to mitigate the effects of high
00:20:00temperatures. In recent days, the felling of dozens of trees in Sarajevo
00:20:04has also attracted public attention, raising the question of whether
00:20:07anyone manages Sarajevo's greenery
00:20:11systematically.
00:20:13Another day under high temperatures. Sunny streets
00:20:17are almost empty, and those who have to leave the house look for
00:20:20the shortest path to shade. On such days, it is best to see
00:20:24how much parks and trees mean to a city. These are the greatest ecological
00:20:28values, after all, and human values and natural
00:20:31values. We must all commit to protecting
00:20:35nature and the resources that nature provides. If we don't
00:20:38protect it, no one will, so nature is very important to us,
00:20:42and then there will be less
00:20:44heat, it will be cooler. Besides
00:20:48providing shade, trees provide shade and the space around them, which is why the difference
00:20:52in temperature between a part of the street without greenery and the space
00:20:55under a canopy or in a park is often drastic. Our
00:20:59thermometer shows temperatures from -20 to
00:21:02+50. Let's see what the temperature is
00:21:06here in the shade on the concrete:
00:21:0938 degrees
00:21:12Celsius. Let's see how much it is here on this
00:21:15leaf that is in the sun:
00:21:19the temperature is 36.9
00:21:23degrees. And now let's see here
00:21:26in the sun:
00:21:30the temperature is over 50 degrees
00:21:33Celsius. In one room, for example, we have different
00:21:37temperatures from one corner to another if you take a slightly more sensitive
00:21:41thermometer. In the city, there are of course big
00:21:44differences, especially, for example, if we enter
00:21:48an area where there is just concrete, asphalt,
00:21:51glass, there the temperatures are significantly higher, for example,
00:21:55compared to a nearby park, there we already
00:21:57feel some difference. That is precisely why experts
00:22:01warn that green areas are one of the best ways
00:22:04for cities to better cope with increasingly frequent heat
00:22:07waves. Citizens unfortunately notice that there are fewer and fewer of them.
00:22:11They are building illegally , extremely
00:22:14large business objects, projects. There are fewer
00:22:18trees as well. In recent days... Citizens witnessed the massive
00:22:22felling of old trees in Sarajevo, allegedly as a
00:22:24precaution because they posed a potential
00:22:27danger.
00:22:31I heard they are cutting down trees in Sarajevo, which I think is
00:22:34the stupidest thing to do. If you look at, for example,
00:22:37Trebinje, they build new buildings, but they don't cut down trees. If
00:22:41there is a tree there, they build around it, they save every
00:22:45tree.
00:22:48For example, in front of my building there were two or three plane trees, nicely, then
00:22:51they cut them down, saying they would fall on a car, they could have protected
00:22:55it, tied it with cables or something. Every tree takes 60
00:22:59years to grow, and they cut it down in an hour and
00:23:03destroy it. This is probably old, since I grew up here, I know
00:23:06very well how old it is. These poplars were, I think they were poplars, the rest
00:23:10needs to be considered for each individual case, what should be done and what
00:23:14should not be done. That is precisely the biggest problem, the profession is often
00:23:18not consulted. Before a large tree is removed,
00:23:22it really should be evaluated from a professional,
00:23:25scientific, methodological approach
00:23:28what its condition is, whether it threatens the safety,
00:23:32health of citizens or the safety of their
00:23:34property. Of course, such trees should be replaced with an appropriate
00:23:38species, an appropriate age of tree that can
00:23:42, shall we say, adapt to these extreme conditions.
00:23:46However, many recently planted young trees in
00:23:49Sarajevo did not manage to survive even the first summer
00:23:52heat, again for the same reason, that communication
00:23:55often fails between those
00:23:58who undertake such activities and us as certified
00:24:02scientific research institutions. In that sense, before any
00:24:06planting activities, it would be necessary to consult the profession.
00:24:09The profession recommends that
00:24:12resistant species be used,
00:24:15that proven species be used. Increasingly hot summers show that greenery is not
00:24:18just an ornament of the city. Therefore, the removal and planting of trees
00:24:22must be approached systematically, because the consequences of bad decisions
00:24:26are often long-term. Feđa Kulina,
00:24:29N1.
00:24:32We continue to talk about heat, about the extremes that
00:24:36are happening to us, about
00:24:38drought, which is no longer just an ecological problem, but is becoming
00:24:42question of energy security. Due to the
00:24:45record low water level of the Danube, Hungary,
00:24:48let's remember, has almost completely stopped the operation of its largest nuclear
00:24:52power plant, and reduced production has been recorded in the Krško
00:24:55power plant in Slovenia. When there is not enough water to cool
00:24:59the reactors, power plants must reduce production or completely
00:25:02shut down, and this then raises a question that perhaps seemed unimaginable
00:25:05until yesterday: can climate change threaten
00:25:09the stability of electricity supply in Europe, and what does this mean for
00:25:13Bosnia and Herzegovina, which relies on hydropower plants and
00:25:16thermal power plants? Are we ready for a future in which droughts and heat waves
00:25:20and water shortages will directly affect electricity production and its
00:25:23price? We will discuss this with an energy expert, Mr. Edhem
00:25:27Bičakčić, this morning. Good morning and welcome to a new day. Good morning to you
00:25:30and the viewers of N1. Mr.
00:25:33Bičakčić, what kind of time are we witnessing, where
00:25:37climate change, literally, here, following what we see in
00:25:40Hungary, in Slovenia, and for a long time also in Bosnia and Herzegovina,
00:25:44dictates whether tomorrow we will have enough energy for our own needs
00:25:47or not, uh? Climate
00:25:51change causes a series of
00:25:55disturbances, they are a product of
00:25:58greenhouse gas emissions, CO2 emissions
00:26:01in the atmosphere. Believe me, this
00:26:04melting of glaciers in the Arctic,
00:26:08long-term dry periods, the spread of
00:26:12fires, and, uh, floods,
00:26:14on the other hand, heavy rainfall in a short
00:26:18period, these cycles alternate and are becoming
00:26:22more intense. In Europe,
00:26:25this is already very drastically felt, and
00:26:28Bosnia and Herzegovina is a somewhat less
00:26:31affected area so far, but it is
00:26:35coming to its turn and already here we are recording
00:26:38a greater spread of forest fires to areas where
00:26:42this has not been the case until now, and outside
00:26:45of, say, Herzegovina, where people have always fought with this,
00:26:49and then sometimes with floods.
00:26:52Bosnia and Herzegovina cannot escape this. Bosnia and Herzegovina
00:26:56participates very little in the emission of greenhouse gases, in world
00:26:59terms it is measured in permilles.
00:27:02mhm, meaning a thousandth part, in
00:27:05European terms in percentages, one to
00:27:082%, but regardless, our production
00:27:11structure, especially in energy, is based on coal-fired
00:27:15thermal power plants, and these are major polluters, that is,
00:27:19they cause, uh,
00:27:21they cause, uh, an increase in CO2
00:27:25emissions. Yes, we are
00:27:28signatories of the energy community and
00:27:31thus with Europe. Since 2006, we have committed
00:27:35to follow all those European
00:27:38energy policies. We did commit,
00:27:41but we are not following them and we have not entered
00:27:45the transition that is necessary to
00:27:48overcome this, so the cuts will be
00:27:52drastic for us, these situations show
00:27:55that. Now, we will talk about those drastic cuts and specifically Bosnia and Herzegovina,
00:27:58I would like us to briefly focus on these nuclear reactors
00:28:02and power plants that are shutting down in Hungary due to lack of water.
00:28:06Krško is also threatened, as I said, in Slovenia. Now,
00:28:09how much can such situations affect
00:28:12the price of electricity in the region? We are speaking very
00:28:16concretely that Hungary is currently facing shortages, that it is implementing
00:28:20reductions at all levels, but looking at the trend in the
00:28:23future, how can what we are currently experiencing affect the
00:28:26region? - For example,
00:28:30the shutdown of a nuclear power plant in... Hungary drastically
00:28:33affects the region of Southeast Europe because it is
00:28:36a large capacity, and the extremely low level of the Danube is
00:28:40a phenomenon that may be recorded for the first
00:28:44time seriously now. You are witnesses that you can
00:28:47cross the Danube in some places,
00:28:50I saw in one video that a car can
00:28:54pass across the Danube, which is unprecedented, which is
00:28:57unprecedented. In such circumstances, there is not enough water for
00:29:00cooling the reactor. Even though there is not enough water, the reactor
00:29:04must either be reduced, and then shut down, not only in
00:29:07Hungary, but there are problems with the nuclear power plant in
00:29:11Romania. Here, the first problems
00:29:13are noticeable with the nuclear power plant Krško on the Sava, mh
00:29:17and it has reduced production, but
00:29:20the possibility of complete shutdown is
00:29:23largely being considered, which then leads, for example,
00:29:26Slovenia to a drastic level of electricity
00:29:29needs, then Croatia, then the entire region. And
00:29:33yet, in these current circumstances in Bosnia and
00:29:36Herzegovina, the public
00:29:40the task that is somehow
00:29:43expected of it. What do we rely on? How much electricity
00:29:47comes from thermal power plants, how much from hydropower plants, how much from
00:29:50wind farms? What is available to us currently in
00:29:53Bosnia and Herzegovina? So, Bosnia and Herzegovina
00:29:57had, uh, before the war, 4,000 MW of electricity
00:30:00capacity for electricity. Of that, 2000 MW in
00:30:04hydro, 2000 MW in thermal, but the production in
00:30:08thermal power plants was 60 to
00:30:1170%, because they operate for a greater number of hours
00:30:14than hydropower plants, mhm, depending on the hydrological
00:30:18year, what it's like, what the rainfall is like,
00:30:21uh, so that went up to 70% from
00:30:24thermal power plants, in good hydrologies 50 somewhat
00:30:27lower, mhm, after the war. The private
00:30:31sector built 1600 MW
00:30:34of new capacities, 300 MW of thermal power plants in
00:30:38Stanari, then over 900
00:30:41MW of solar power plants on the transmission and
00:30:44distribution network, about
00:30:47300 MW of wind power plants and
00:30:50100 MW of small hydropower plants, so most
00:30:53of the solar plants are 900 MW, most of them, well, privately
00:30:57owned.
Data courtesy of The GDELT Project (gdeltproject.org), from the Internet Archive TV News Archive. Film strip and transcript are GDELT's, rehosted here under their terms of use, which permit it with this citation.