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00:00:00were his, well, he was on a secret plane. He was not on the
00:00:04same plane that those reporters
00:00:06solution is found. How do you and some White House staffers were flying on. Joining me
00:00:09tonight is one of the reporters who broke this story, Washington Post National Security
00:00:13reporter Dan Lamoth. And Dan, I mean, this is a
00:00:16remarkable scoop and very thorough reporting
00:00:20here. Can you just kind of walk us through what you've learned
00:00:23here?
00:00:25Yeah, I mean, I think the most significant piece here is that for
00:00:29weeks now, uh, the American public has been talking about the
00:00:33two Air Force One jets, uh, the newer
00:00:36one from Cutter and the older one from the last couple
00:00:40is simply something impossible decades of operations. And in reality, the President was on neither
00:00:42plane. Uh, this came to the Post in part
00:00:45abuses in this company, and at the because, uh, individuals thought that there was a
00:00:49hole in public understanding here that needed to be
00:00:51clarified. I mean, it also just
00:00:55in terms of how they came up with this,
00:00:58I mean, you know, a lot, a big question is going to be how
00:01:01unprecedented this is, the idea that they would take the President, not only put
00:01:05him on an alternate aircraft, but use a catering truck at the
00:01:10airport, uh, to do so.
00:01:14Yeah, you mean, you can see some creativity and ingenuity in how they were able to pull this
00:01:18off. And, and you, I don't think there's any dispute here.
00:01:21I mean, Iran is a serious threat to the United States. Iran is a
00:01:25threat to senior U.S. officials that pre-dates this
00:01:28administration. Uh, there is cause for concern. Uh,
00:01:32it's unclear at the moment what exactly triggered them to
00:01:35take these uh, extreme measures. Um, but, but
00:01:39either way, we've gone about a month now since it occurred,
00:01:43and until today, uh, there was no public understanding of
00:01:46it. Well, and you report that the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth
00:01:50also boarded that C-32A plane
00:01:53separately using external stairs, which means
00:01:56people could see him boarding it.
00:01:59and will that be included? Uh, and you write that this is part of an attempt to make the the flight appear
00:02:02typical. That's a plane that typically other VIPs, cabinet
00:02:04members, um, would fly on. Do we know who
00:02:08else, if anyone, was on that secret plane with the
00:02:11President?
00:02:14I can't speak at the moment to the with any specificity to to who
00:02:18else was aboard that plane. But, but
00:02:20Elmedin Konaković. How do you view yes, uh, Secretary Hegseth, uh, I'm told,
00:02:22uh, went up the external stairs, uh,
00:02:25deliberately so, uh, as a part of a larger plan to make it look like
00:02:29he was the senior official on that plane. Uh, the C-32s
00:02:33that they use that day, uh, are commonly used. The Vice President uses
00:02:37them. The President uses on occasion
00:02:39domestically. I have flown on C-32s in the
00:02:43past with general officers. It's not uncommon, uh, to
00:02:47see VIPs on that plane. But, but
00:02:50obviously, when you have even the usage of an Air Force One
00:02:53call sign, a plane that the President is not aboard in
00:02:57that moment, that's remarkable.
00:03:00Well, and that's actually a really good point, because typically the
00:03:04understanding is that any plane, any aircraft the President is on, is Air
00:03:08Force One, or any helicopter that he's on, that's technically Marine
00:03:11One. But, but you said that the one that he was actually flying on had a
00:03:15non-descript call sign, while the other plane that everyone thinks
00:03:19he's on is still considered in the still the call sign of Air Force
00:03:22One.
00:03:25Yes, that's right. And then as we kind of backtrack some of the publicly
00:03:29available tracker data on this, you have
00:03:32the newer jet from
00:03:34rulings that point to Cutter that that landed with a relatively non-descript
00:03:38call sign a couple hours in advance in Britain.
00:03:41The C-32 simply did not show up in flight tracker
00:03:45data at all, at least in the publicly available
00:03:48information we had. And and the Air Force One jet
00:03:51landed with the Air Force One call sign despite the
00:03:55President not being aboard. That, that there's a serious shell game
00:03:59of sorts that... there, uh, you to keep the President
00:04:02safe. And did were there White House staffers who were on the decoy
00:04:06Air Force One that also thought that the President was still on that
00:04:10plane?
00:04:13My understanding is there was some White House staff that did not know. Uh, this
00:04:17was kept close hold in a small group. Uh, and
00:04:21obviously, the White House Press Core, which reported not
00:04:24only in that day but in the subsequent weeks as well, uh, that the President had
00:04:28traveled whole on the quote unquote
00:04:52We are talking about general elections, constitutional
00:04:55citizens of Mostar in the future. We forgot that blockades, burning problems of Mostar. Our guest is Slaven Bevanda, Vice President of the Croatian
00:04:59Republican Party, General Secretary of this party, but also a city
00:05:03councilor in the City Council of the City of Mostar. Good day and welcome
00:05:06to Sarajevo Day Live. Good day to you and your
00:05:10viewers. Let's start with some of these... state
00:05:13topics. General elections are coming up. HRS supports Zdenko
00:05:16Lučić. Do you think that the opposition
00:05:20has the capacity to replace the long-term rule
00:05:23of HDZ Bosnia and Herzegovina? Is it even possible
00:05:26to replace HDZ Bosnia and Herzegovina, and
00:05:30do you think that the problem when it comes to
00:05:33votes can be caused by the candidacy of Slaven Kovačević? Well,
00:05:36look, we are in the process of being banned from political
00:05:39activity, you must understand this situation. "I must
00:05:43remain somewhat reserved in this answer because
00:05:46HRS is currently the second most
00:05:49punished party by the Central Election
00:05:53Commission, meaning that much more is measured for us than
00:05:56for others, some benign posts on portals
00:05:59that were, that were, caused penalties at
00:06:03the CEC. We are in the process of appeals before both the court and the representative
00:06:06court. What I want to say in the context of general elections, it is still
00:06:10a, as some like to say, "festival of democracy," but this
00:06:13time, this time, this time I hope it will be the first truly
00:06:17honest elections, thanks to the electoral technologies for which all of us
00:06:21from the opposition parties fought hard. We expect that
00:06:25citizens will have for the first time
00:06:28a government as they elected in the elections, that their
00:06:32vote will represent their true will, so
00:06:35you expect that new electoral technologies will bear fruit? Well,
00:06:39here, the contacts we have with the Central Election Commission
00:06:42and here, a certain advertising campaign by CIK that starts
00:06:45today, so we expect and hope that electoral technologies will be
00:06:49applied in the elections in October, and
00:06:53we expect for the first time that we will know the election results
00:06:57on election night and not wait for months. That is, so to speak,
00:07:01actually, let's stay on these state
00:07:04topics. Much controversy was caused by the repeated statements
00:07:07of the Croatian Minister of Foreign Affairs, Gordan Grlić Radman. He spoke again
00:07:11about the necessity of forming a third electoral
00:07:14unit in Bosnia and Herzegovina, saying that it would not
00:07:17lead to the division of Bosnia and Herzegovina. However,
00:07:21we immediately saw sharp reactions
00:07:23from both the member of the Presidency, Denis Bećirović, and candidate
00:07:27Slaven Kovačević, as well as the Minister of Foreign Affairs of BiH,
00:07:32that, those statements, and the responses that follow? Well,
00:07:36look, it's about sitting down. So, I will state my opinion. I
00:07:40also personally think that it is high time for such initiatives
00:07:43to stop coming, specifically from Zagreb regarding the method of introducing
00:07:47elections. Personally, I believe that such initiatives,
00:07:50similar initiatives, should come from Sarajevo, because I think that the
00:07:54issue of Croatian equality can only be resolved through internal consensus in
00:07:58the Federation, and I think that a turnaround
00:08:01in Bosniak politics, the majority Bosniak politics, is necessary, and
00:08:05eventually, eventually, that would represent a historic
00:08:08step forward in resolving accumulated problems.
00:08:12There is no stabilization of the Federation as a larger entity, and that would
00:08:15secure the path to the European Union for both the Federation and
00:08:19all of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Croatia would then be
00:08:22of great help to us, because it would be our engine for entering the European
00:08:26Union for accelerated access, negotiations. What we are currently not
00:08:30utilizing in our relations with Croatia is cross-border cooperation and other issues.
00:08:33That is the issue of all complex relations that exist, but I think that
00:08:37a turnaround in Bosniak politics on this issue is necessary.
00:08:40There is constant talk about the necessity of amending the electoral law of Bosnia and
00:08:44Herzegovina. We also have
00:08:47this, but consistently, even representatives from the Bosniak
00:08:50people and from the Croatian people talk about how it should be,
00:08:54but we don't have concrete steps and
00:08:57actions. Why do you think they don't exist? Well, I think, I think they
00:09:00don't exist because the existing policies, when I say existing policies that
00:09:04have been in power for, let's say, the last 20 years,
00:09:08this situation suits them, because they feed on individual
00:09:12fear in that way. They use so-called fears or true
00:09:15fears, meaning they manipulate their electorate.
00:09:19We have been at a standstill the whole time, I think we have been at a complete standstill since
00:09:232006. Let's now turn to these somewhat
00:09:27local topics. Mostar does not have local communities, and
00:09:30the Constitutional Court of the Federation of BiH in its delivered opinion stated that
00:09:34local self-government units are obliged to form local
00:09:37communities as a form of local self-government.
00:09:41What exactly does this decision change in Mostar? Can we
00:09:45now expect that, does the city now have to enable
00:09:48the actual functioning of local communities? Who is even
00:09:52responsible for this not being done so far? Well, everyone in the city is
00:09:55responsible, but of course, those who form the political majority
00:09:59in the city council and who govern the city of Mostar are the most responsible. So, in the last six
00:10:03years, certain initiatives have been launched since we have a city council again.
00:10:06Certain initiatives have been launched with the aim of establishing
00:10:10local self-government. So, we... "We have local communities in
00:10:14the city of Mostar, but in these local communities, local
00:10:18self-government is exercised, which is what the Law on
00:10:21Principles of Local Self-Government in the Federation dictates, meaning..."
00:10:25"We had some small initiatives, so to speak, to form
00:10:28a new network of local communities, to organize elections for these local
00:10:32communities as in other units of local self-government, but uh
00:10:36for all of that, we need an amendment to the statute. We have not even implemented
00:10:39the decision of the Constitutional Court, or rather, it has only been partially implemented, the decision of the Constitutional
00:10:43Court regarding Mostar, and I think in
00:10:46the coming period, in addition to this part of this opinion
00:10:49of the Constitutional Court which directed us to the
00:10:53necessity of implementing the statute." We have another opinion
00:10:56in also and I think that in some future
00:11:00period, not before these elections, but after the elections, the
00:11:04time will come to seriously sit down about appropriate changes
00:11:07to the current moment in order to harmonize it with both the Constitution of the Federation and the Constitution of Bosnia and Herzegovina. So how many
00:11:11necessary changes to the statute, what all
00:11:15needs to be changed in the statute? Well, look, we have what is obligated by the
00:11:19Constitutional Court to implement a part regarding the decision-making method in the area
00:11:22of the central zone, i.e., the use of financial
00:11:25resources decided by councilors who are elected from
00:11:29urban areas. That issue remained
00:11:32unresolved in the decision of the Constitutional Court, and only the
00:11:36issue of holding elections in the city of Mostar was resolved. So,
00:11:39we have a situation where we must ensure
00:11:42amendments, amendments regarding local communities,
00:11:46their establishment, functioning, i.e., ensuring local
00:11:50self-government for all citizens in the city. The second part which concerns
00:11:53the new opinion of the Constitutional Court. So that is an opinion, not a decision,
00:11:57it did not revoke certain provisions of the Mostar statute, that is
00:12:00for ensuring the candidacy of others, I wished
00:12:04for the next others, others in the city of Mostar,
00:12:07because the current statute of the city of Mostar, which we must say was
00:12:11imposed by the High Representative at the time, Paddy
00:12:14Ashdown, does not provide for the possibility for the club of others to
00:12:17nominate the vice-president and president of the city council. And do you
00:12:21expect those changes to happen,
00:12:24Well, look, we will, we will incorporate those changes if
00:12:28we are responsible, if we have such an opinion of the Constitutional Court.
00:12:31Uh, such issues are resolved at certain levels of the
00:12:35Federation, i.e., in elections, for example, in the election
00:12:38of the leadership of the House of Peoples
00:12:41and the House of Representatives of the Federation Parliament. So,
00:12:44there are models that we can use to solve it. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't proceed with that
00:12:48solution. So, we from HRS have full political will to resolve all these
00:12:52issues. Um, you said,
00:12:55therefore, it has been resolved when it comes to elections in the city of Mostar itself.
00:12:59However, does the current statute of the city pose an obstacle to
00:13:03the normal functioning of Mostar? What would a statute look like
00:13:06that you and HRS would propose? Well, look,
00:13:10there is that statute, as we already said before, it was imposed by the
00:13:14administration, i.e., the High Representative. It
00:13:17abolished the previous six municipalities and replaced the city structure that
00:13:21previously existed with a unified city administration. We then...
00:13:25by that statute, we got a unitary organization of the city.
00:13:29We have five departments in the city. The opinions that
00:13:32appear are that we should make a reorganization of the city
00:13:35administration. We believe that we should, uh,
00:13:39arrange a number of issues regarding the method
00:13:42of appointments, hiring people. So,
00:13:46fulfilling constitutional competencies. So, everything that should be
00:13:50is something that necessarily requires changes to legislation at a higher level
00:13:53at all times. They have, we have an obligation
00:13:56to comply with them, but we first need to adopt this statute
00:14:00that was imposed by the High Representative. Meaning,
00:14:04only then change it. So, it is still, let's say, on a temporary
00:14:07basis. And what about the eventual return of city
00:14:11municipalities? Are you for that? Well, look, there is a proposal. So, we
00:14:15always have some emissaries. Here, specifically in this case, it was Mr. Efendić who came to
00:14:19Sarajevo, allegedly concerned about the status of Bosniaks in Mostar
00:14:22and proposed the return, the return
00:14:25of city municipalities, i.e., a return to the situation before 2004.
00:14:28So, we have situations in cities in Bosnia and Herzegovina,
00:14:32like Sarajevo, specifically Sarajevo, which has a regulated issue. It has city
00:14:35municipalities, it has a city, it has a city as an institution with very
00:14:39small powers. Uh, in principle, if we are all for
00:14:43it, and if it's a good model, I would be willing to discuss them to see what the
00:14:47competencies would be. We from HRS would discuss what it would be, but it would be
00:14:50necessary then to take that model, if it's good for Mostar, I don't see why
00:14:54we wouldn't apply it to other municipalities in the Federation,
00:14:58for example, Travnik or something similar. One,
00:15:01one of the biggest problems, in fact, are public companies
00:15:05in the city of Mostar. Recently,
00:15:07the most current issues are the Uborak landfill and
00:15:11communal services. You spoke about
00:15:13serious doubts regarding the work and management
00:15:16of communal services. Are there certain evidences? Do you actually
00:15:20expect an investigation into the work and management of the public
00:15:24communal service company in Mostar? Well, look, in the city of Mostar, in the city
00:15:28of Mostar, we have a service for internal supervision provided by that statute. It was
00:15:32unfilled for half a year ago, for six or
00:15:36seven years. And one of the powers of that internal supervision service was to
00:15:40supervise the work of those public enterprises.
00:15:43What we are witnessing, we are witnessing that these public
00:15:47enterprises, that these public enterprises in the city of Mostar,
00:15:51specifically, we had a fire at the landfill, at the Uborak landfill,
00:15:54where, according to initial estimates, the damages are 20 million
00:15:57marks. We are talking about material damages. The damages to
00:16:00the health of citizens caused by that accident are unfortunately
00:16:04immeasurable. They will be reflected in the future. We have...
00:16:07The current situation with that company is unresolved. In
00:16:11the communal company, we have big problems, big problems with
00:16:14the way it operates and manages that company. We are witnessing that a number
00:16:17of criminal charges have been filed in recent days due to
00:16:23last council session, we witnessed that individual
00:16:26councilors accused each other of using funds
00:16:29and funds, i.e., funds
00:16:33or or or or machinery of that company to pave
00:16:36courtyards for individual councilors or political
00:16:40officials, yards. So, that is, that is a matter that
00:16:43would, that is a matter that in a normal country after such a council session,
00:16:47where councilors, certain councilors present such information, the prosecutor's office
00:16:51would call them for an interview, and request
00:16:55information on who had something paved with city funds
00:16:58or, in other words, who benefited. There are
00:17:01no, we still have no information currently about investigations.
00:17:05It hasn't been that long since criminal charges were filed. What we are waiting
00:17:08for, we are waiting for an investigation into the fire at the
00:17:11Uborak landfill, because there were, there were reasonable suspicions
00:17:15from the beginning that the fire was arson,
00:17:17and without, and without conducting a full
00:17:21investigation, it is difficult to draw any conclusions. If it was arson
00:17:24and if, look, that was an attack on the citizens of Mostar.
00:17:28That is the least of the questions, the least of the questions regarding the value
00:17:31of destroyed property, which is the value and costs that arise today
00:17:35in the city of Mostar in terms of organizing and handling that
00:17:39waste. Yes, we will talk about that too, but let's just briefly
00:17:43discuss the management and operation of the communal
00:17:46company itself. You said that those are two
00:17:49communal companies under the same roof. Are public companies
00:17:53in Mostar actually divided along national
00:17:56political lines? Who does that, why, how long would it actually
00:18:00take now to start the recovery of the system, how long would that
00:18:03take, primarily to uncover all possible
00:18:06malversations, frauds, divisions, and only then to
00:18:09actually recover everything and establish it as it should be? Well,
00:18:13look, it's clear that these companies of ours have not functioned
00:18:16in accordance with the law, that is, the Law on Public Enterprises and the Law on
00:18:20Economic Societies, which oblige them to
00:18:24apply them. So, we are witnessing that the managements of these companies that were
00:18:28appointed, that they had a sharp division of responsibilities
00:18:31regarding, let's be immediately most honest, regarding
00:18:35the conduct of the activities of those companies in certain urban
00:18:38areas, both with Croatian and Bosniak majorities. So, we shouldn't
00:18:42hide that, it's clear to everyone. We have a situation where in
00:18:45some companies, formed, I call them
00:18:49working units, working units one and two, which were essentially
00:18:52formed from former separate companies when the companies were unified. So,
00:18:56citizens and those companies still haven't fully
00:19:00functioned, fully started functioning in that
00:19:03common, common form. So,
00:19:06because of that, we have... a chaos in that management. We have been
00:19:09witnessing for many years, and in citizen
00:19:13complaints, public announcements, that funds, specifically
00:19:16machinery, excavators, backhoes of these public companies, not only
00:19:20outside working hours, are found in
00:19:23private, are found in the area, are found in the area of other municipalities. People filmed them,
00:19:27published them. So, huge abuses. There is
00:19:30huge suspicion of abuses. So,
00:19:34we will see what will be the subject of those investigations. Will the
00:19:37prosecutor's office, I see no reason for procrastination. These are not
00:19:41some cases in which huge investigative
00:19:44actions need to be conducted. And what is necessary in all these
00:19:48companies is to conduct an independent audit of operations, if
00:19:52possible. We also advocate for an international audit. We know that
00:19:55it costs a lot, but I think a cross-section needs to be made.
00:19:59How do you then view these recent dismissals
00:20:02that we witnessed in communal services? Are these
00:20:06dismissals of workers a consequence of economic and
00:20:09organizational problems that certainly exist, or precisely
00:20:12political and national relations within the company? We now see
00:20:16workers talking about the pressures they
00:20:20endured. How do you view this entire situation? Look, we
00:20:24had a city council meeting where no one wanted to
00:20:27publish that alleged petition, so to speak, of workers who refuse
00:20:30to work from allegedly working unit two, but stop
00:20:34working in the area of working unit one or...
00:20:44So, we have workers who refused to work, allegedly, again, I'm talking about that
00:20:48part of performing their
00:20:50duties, who are obliged to work in
00:20:54the entire city area. And they
00:20:56have the right to choose where they will work. That is impossible. That
00:21:00shows a multi-layered approach to managing that
00:21:03company. So, those companies were not unified
00:21:07in a proper way. We, when unifying,
00:21:10uh, warned that it might not be the best
00:21:14way. The formation of a holding company was proposed, so that it is precisely known
00:21:17that in one holding company, there would be... more companies: landfill,
00:21:21cleanliness, waste collection, execution of works, to be
00:21:25controlled through a joint holding. There were more proposals. Unfortunately, it seems
00:21:28that the worst was chosen, and it is not functioning today. It is evident
00:21:32that in this whole process there was manipulation of workers. Mhm.
00:21:36Absolute manipulation. Some people stated that they didn't know what they
00:21:39signed in that petition. You didn't even
00:21:43see the petition, we only saw a letter, but
00:21:47I personally didn't see a signed petition. It's not...
00:21:50Similarly, we haven't seen any decision on the termination of an employment
00:21:54contract, for what reason someone's employment was terminated.
00:21:57So, I am a lawyer, so I cannot
00:22:00assess whether that decision, let's say, at least for formal
00:22:04legal reasons, is lawful or not. But it is very evident
00:22:07now that the supervisory board, as
00:22:10the second-instance body, is resolving the complaints of these
00:22:13workers, i.e., requests for reconsideration of those decisions, and
00:22:17I only heard from the media that decisions were even
00:22:20adopted. Yes, but what can the City
00:22:23Council do now? What can you order the public
00:22:27company to do? Can we perhaps expect
00:22:30uh an audit,
00:22:33some new establishment of a different type, a different
00:22:37way of working in the communal company? Well, what
00:22:41we are witnessing is that these public companies that we have, not only in the city
00:22:44of Mostar, but at higher levels, in other cities, are in huge
00:22:48problems. Mhm. We are...
00:22:50Perhaps some companies that have entered into public-private partnerships with
00:22:53private firms in some municipalities have far fewer
00:22:56problems. Maybe it costs a bit more,
00:23:00maybe it looks a bit different, but it's clear that we need new relationships in
00:23:04terms of regulating
00:23:06these issues. But what is worrying is that all these
00:23:10companies operate, they have poor business
00:23:14results. So, not only in the city of Mostar, look,
00:23:18look at the list of tax debtors at the federal
00:23:22tax administration, the federal tax administration or the indirect taxation administration.
00:23:25You will see which communal companies are the biggest debtors. This means that contributions
00:23:29are not paid, that VAT is not paid.
00:23:32at the same time, these companies, unlike
00:23:36private companies, are not blocked by the tax administration, so
00:23:39that this chaos,
00:23:43chaos will have to be resolved.
00:23:45Uh, we are witnesses that in some other municipalities there were bankruptcies of utility
00:23:49companies. The establishment of new ones, I don't know what the
00:23:52future of the city of Mostar holds. We have a difficult situation at the landfill
00:23:56that burned down. We, at this moment, the workers who were working on
00:23:59disposal, storage, sorting of that waste
00:24:02that was coming there, I think there are about 55 workers,
00:24:06uh, they have a very difficult situation. All this
00:24:10concern for these layoffs somehow
00:24:13prompted me to ask myself why no one cares about those 55 people who were doing these
00:24:17jobs whose future is uncertain. We hope... that these
00:24:20people will fit into other other
00:24:23city utility companies, that they will remain at that
00:24:26landfill guarding disposal
00:24:30uh, the implementation of the adaptation plan at that landfill, that's all that
00:24:34awaits us in the next period where we have, where
00:24:37we have a difficult, very difficult situation, that there is actually a lot of work when
00:24:40it comes to utilities and that problem with waste
00:24:44disposal. Can the citizens of Mostar and, well,
00:24:47the entire region actually say when will the city landfill
00:24:50cease to exist and where will Mostar dispose of
00:24:54waste after that? Has an alternative been found? Is
00:24:57there talk about it? There were many ideas years
00:25:00ago, but is there a final decision?
00:25:04There is no decision. So, we don't even have a new location for
00:25:08a regional landfill planned in the spatial plan of our
00:25:11Herzegovina-Neretva Canton. So, what the
00:25:15city of Mostar's Uborak landfill must implement,
00:25:18it must be implemented in the area of the Uborak landfill.
00:25:22That is the implementation of the adaptation plan adopted by the Federal
00:25:25Ministry of Environment. This means that in the next five years
00:25:29that landfill will be remediated
00:25:33according to regulations, that
00:25:36all hazardous materials located there will be separated, that it will be
00:25:39greened, and that it will simply not pose a threat to the
00:25:45waste has been deposited at that landfill for 60 years, that before the
00:25:49war... whoever lived in Mostar before the war knows that that landfill
00:25:52burned very badly before the war. But that's a chaos,
00:25:56simply something we have to, we have to, we have to solve.
00:25:59Will we be able to solve it without European partners? I don't know, and
00:26:03the problem is constantly being discussed, but somehow no
00:26:09view that? Well, look, Mostar is not alone in that
00:26:12problem. There are many other cities, there are some small municipalities or
00:26:16smaller municipalities, local self-government units that solved this by having
00:26:19illegal landfills and no one mentions them. The city of Mostar had
00:26:22a sanitary landfill that was newly opened after the European
00:26:26Union. I think it might not have been well managed either. Mm-hm.
00:26:30That's, that's another problem. So that landfill is... "If
00:26:33all legal regulations had been applied, it wouldn't look like this today. And
00:26:36this horror that happened with this
00:26:38fire
00:26:42that, of course, no one expected. Was this an accident or was it caused
00:26:46as I said, the investigation will determine if it was caused
00:26:49deliberately? Do you have any information on what phase the
00:26:52investigation is in? I really don't, because, look, the prosecutor's office won't give any
00:26:55information, it reserves the right for protection,
00:26:59not only in this, but in all other cases. But, as I said,
00:27:03appropriate expertises need to be carried out here, probably a large number of people, workers
00:27:06from the landfill, need to be questioned, a large number of
00:27:09firefighters who told us, let's say
00:27:13internally, when we went to thank those people for all
00:27:17they did, because they were exposed to a terrible
00:27:20danger when they were extinguishing that
00:27:23landfill. They are, because the landfill didn't have just one fire, it had
00:27:27new fires on the second and third day. They expressed
00:27:30suspicion, due to their professional experience, that it was
00:27:33arson. Now that we're talking about public
00:27:37enterprises in the city of Mostar, are they
00:27:40today professional city companies or still political
00:27:43prey of parties? How do you... I personally think
00:27:47that we do not have professional companies in public enterprises, not only in
00:27:51Mostar, but throughout Bosnia and Herzegovina.
00:27:55So these companies are simply under
00:27:59the supervision of political parties that appoint their members.
00:28:02of supervisory boards and management and they manage these enterprises
00:28:05and we are witnesses that their results, as we said,
00:28:09who are the biggest debtors of tax contributions, tell
00:28:13us that either we don't know how to manage that
00:28:16sector, that we don't know how to manage that sector, or that
00:28:19there is a high degree of corruption and crime where the funds
00:28:23of citizens, look, these funds that are used by these utility companies are paid
00:28:27by all of us through waste collection or by paying appropriate utility
00:28:31fees adopted by local self-government units. So, we are
00:28:34witnesses to problems in highways, problems in
00:28:38telecommunications, now big problems in the economy of Bosnia and
00:28:41Herzegovina, in mines, meaning all
00:28:45public enterprises are simply, or a very
00:28:48small number of them operate
00:28:51responsibly. Is it even possible to solve that problem? We're talking
00:28:54now from local communities, then through the level
00:28:58of cantons, then entity
00:29:01levels and... Bosnia and Herzegovina, all
00:29:05public enterprises are actually in a similar situation, a similar
00:29:08state. Is it even possible then to come and
00:29:11solve these problems? Well, it is possible to solve these problems, but these problems
00:29:15will not be solved until Bosnia and Herzegovina joins the European
00:29:18Union. I'm afraid they won't be solved until
00:29:21we have not only our own prosecutor's offices but European prosecutor's offices. We are
00:29:25witnesses now in Croatia that anyone who spends funds from
00:29:29European funds falls under the jurisdiction of the European prosecutor's office.
00:29:32So you see, for example, specifically in landfills in
00:29:36Croatia and in certain
00:29:39collectors, I'm talking about those utility infrastructures, it is very
00:29:43carefully monitored by European investigators how
00:29:46those funds are spent. So you
00:29:49have a control chain, let's say a control
00:29:52control chain from European prosecutors,
00:29:56so that politics cannot exert pressure on the local
00:29:59prosecutor's office. You see, we are witnesses that... the European
00:30:03Prosecutor's Office, due to EBRD funds,
00:30:05suspended the financing of highways in the Federation. So we see
00:30:09where we are now stopped. We are stopped, that work on
00:30:13highways will stop, that we are again delayed, and that we will again travel from Mostar to
00:30:16Sarajevo for hours, and you will go to the sea longer and longer until
00:30:20we build that highway. So you think the solution is actually
00:30:23the European Union? Well, honestly, I expect
00:30:27because it's time for transparency, responsible work
00:30:29of investigative prosecutorial and judicial
00:30:33teams, quick, efficient work, until we join or at
00:30:37least get closer to the European Union, because it will have very strict
00:30:40criteria regarding the chapter on
00:30:43justice, mm-hm, so that's the hardest chapter that Croatia
00:30:46would implement judicial reform. So
00:30:50without that there is none, I don't see
00:30:53the ability uh, among these
00:30:56politicians, appointed people in all positions in institu