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00:00:06of
00:00:14This of of is GPS, the global public square, welcome to all of you in the
00:00:17United States and around the world, I'm Farid
00:00:20Zakaria. Today on the
00:00:23program, I will talk to the CEO of Microsoft,
00:00:27Satya Nadela. I want to know how he
00:00:31thinks about artificial intelligence, is it
00:00:34bubble or is it the industrial revolution times
00:00:3810? will it destroy most jobs and has
00:00:41China's technology caught up with the US? all
00:00:45that and more.
00:00:48also Venezuela's opposition leader Maria Korida
00:00:52Machade. she won the
00:00:56Nobel Prize for her work promoting democracy and she's now
00:01:00me living in exile. b say she would win an
00:01:03election back home
00:01:04in a landslide, but
00:01:06of reports are that the Trump
00:01:08of administration has barred her from going
00:01:10home. what is going
00:01:13on? i will ask
00:01:15her.
00:01:20but first here's my take: this week britain installed its
00:01:24seventh prime minister in barely decade. france has churne
00:01:28through almost as many. in
00:01:30of just few years. its next president may well be
00:01:33of the once outcast Marine Lepen. In Germany, the far
00:01:37right AFD, tiny just few years ago, now
00:01:41poles in first
00:01:42of place. Even East Asian democracies often viewed as
00:01:46stable, cautious, even boring, have seen governments in
00:01:50Japan, South Korea and Taiwan struggle in the midst of growing
00:01:54public anger. And where the popular are in power,
00:01:58the situation doesn't seem that different. Donald Trump now hovers
00:02:02near the lowest approval ratings of any modern American
00:02:05president at this point
00:02:07in a presidency. Can modern
00:02:10democracies function? Across the democratic
00:02:14world, many countries tax, borrow and spend exorbitant
00:02:17amounts. Spending now averages more than 40% of
00:02:21GDP in the OECD countries, and the debt to GDP
00:02:25of ratio in those countries has more than doubled over the last 30
00:02:29years. but people don't seem to think they have
00:02:32benefited. why has this happened? some of it
00:02:36is economic, expensive housing, stagnant incomes and a
00:02:40widening
00:02:41of inequality problem have fueled public anger. but economics
00:02:45is only part
00:02:45of the story. america has enjoyed stronger growth than most
00:02:49other advanced economies. france
00:02:52of under Macron has lowered unemployment, and it has attracted more
00:02:55foreigner investment than any country in Europe for seven straight
00:02:59years. According to an Ernston Young analysis, South Korea is
00:03:03economic success story. Japan was experiencing a
00:03:06comeback, yet democratic governments almost
00:03:10everywhere are unpopular. The
00:03:14larger explanation is that we are living through one of history's great
00:03:17technological revolutions, and these transformations always
00:03:21produce deep anxiety and fear. The
00:03:25last technological transformation on this scale came between
00:03:29roughly 18. 18 and 1920 electricity,
00:03:33the telephone, railroads, the automobile and
00:03:36me movies overturned entire industries and ways of life,
00:03:40millions left farms for cities,
00:03:42in global trade disrupted local
00:03:44in economies, new fortunes appeared overnight while old
00:03:48occupations disappeared. In this turmoil,
00:03:52frustration and anger found political
00:03:55pathways, the left turned to communism, the right
00:03:59to fascism. What followed were new mass movements, cultural
00:04:03uphevals and world war. Our own
00:04:06revolution is digital rather than electrical, beginning with
00:04:10computers, then the
00:04:11of internet and then smart phones, social media, and now
00:04:16of AI. The ladder might prove more
00:04:18transformative. As Deep Minds Demus Hasaba said last
00:04:22week, we've essentially found a
00:04:24me way
00:04:25in to make sand think. Silicon trips are made of
00:04:29sand. "the ability to mass produce intelligence
00:04:33that gets more powerful every
00:04:35of month is surely the greatest technological triumph in
00:04:39history, but that means it could be the most
00:04:43disruptive. the great political scientist Samuel
00:04:46Huntington noted, the primary problem of
00:04:50a politics is the lag in
00:04:52the development of political institutions behind social and
00:04:56economic change.
00:04:58of large scale change causes. anxiety and anxious societies
00:05:02ask more of politics, citizens want leaders to restore
00:05:06order, provide security and help them regain a sense of
00:05:09control over forces that seam increasingly beyond
00:05:13anyone's grasp, but while today's technology
00:05:17dramatically increases expectations, it also makes
00:05:20democratic governments less capable by
00:05:23comparison. we summon a car these days in three
00:05:27minutes, package arrives the same day. artificial
00:05:31intelligence answers complicated questions in seconds, doing work that
00:05:35took people months in mere minutes.
00:05:38naturally citizens begin to expect similar efficiency from.
00:05:43but democracy is not designed for speed, it's designed for
00:05:46legitimacy. it bargains, compromises, consult
00:05:50independent courts, protects vulnerable groups and balances
00:05:54competing interests. those safegards are precisely what distinguish
00:05:58democracy from authoritarianism. yet an age
00:06:01shaped by technologies warp speed, these
00:06:05increasingly look like paralysis. social
00:06:09media widens the gap, every governmental mistake. becomes
00:06:13instantly visible, every disappointment becomes
00:06:16viral controversy, every frustrated citizen can
00:06:20mobilize thousands of others before governments have even begun to
00:06:24respond. this helps explain the strange
00:06:28trajectory of modern populism. politicians such as Donald
00:06:31Trump, Jayer Bolsonaro, Havier Melley and others rose
00:06:35to prominence, promising to bulldose through institutional
00:06:39gridlock, yet once in office most... have encountered
00:06:43the same reality as the leaders they displaced. Today's
00:06:46insurgents quickly become tomorrow's disappointing
00:06:50incumbants. People don't seem to have lost
00:06:53confidence in democracy. They have not turned their backs on
00:06:57elections, constitutions and independent courts,
00:07:01but they are deeply unhappy with democratic
00:07:03performance. Democracies must once against
00:07:07prove that they can build housing and infrastructure, modernize
00:07:11public services, manage technological change, reduce
00:07:15inequality, and do so with urgency and
00:07:17effectiveness. History offers some grounds for
00:07:20optimism. free societies often look weakest in the
00:07:24midst of great technological because they move slowly and
00:07:28argue constantly, yet over time they have usually
00:07:31adapted better than autocracies precisely because they
00:07:35can learn, correct mistakes and change course
00:07:39without violence or repression, democratic
00:07:43leaders should not try to outrase technology, they
00:07:46can't, but they should prove through relentless focus
00:07:50and competence that democracies can
00:07:53deliver, then people will understand that the
00:07:57friction of accountability and the weight of
00:08:00legitimacy are not bugs in the system, they
00:08:04are the features that keep us free. go to
00:08:08fried zakaria.com for a link to my washington post column this week
00:08:11and let's get:
00:08:12Started:
00:08:23artificial intelligence is fueling the American economy right
00:08:26now. The appetite for anything AI related seems never ending
00:08:30as tech companies rush to build data centers by chips and
00:08:34fuel technology development. But so much of this spending
00:08:38is one massive bet and many of Wall Street are worried about.
00:08:42whether they will see returns on these investments. Here's
00:08:46part one of my exclusive interview with Satya Nadela, the CEO of
00:08:50Microsoft. Satya Nadela, welcome to the
00:08:53show. Thank you so much Farid for having me. Are we
00:08:57an AI bubble and has it begun to deflate?
00:09:01You have a 30% stake in open AI. They have promised to
00:09:04spend hundreds of billions of dollars. They make
00:09:08tens of billions of dollars. They'll make 25 billion dollars this year.
00:09:12revenue, it just feels like the the math doesn't add up and
00:09:16there is going to be moment of truth, am I wrong?
00:09:20i i think the moment of truth really more is the
00:09:24following: the way look it is this is new input, this is
00:09:28new general purpose technology that is going to drive productivity
00:09:32and that productivity has to translate into very broad speed
00:09:35economic growth that is economy wide in terms of GDP
00:09:39growth, and if we don't see that, then we are going to
00:09:43have a problem, so unless we see the that broad economic
00:09:47growth, we are not going to you have this movie and well,
00:09:51but I am all about how do you ensure, not any about
00:09:54any one firm, right, quite frankly, it's about every firm in the
00:09:58economy right, whether it's a small business, whether it's a large
00:10:01multinational or a public sector institution, can
00:10:05they see real benefits of this technology, we are in the early innings
00:10:09of it, but there's real proof points of that so... The big news
00:10:13this week is that a Chinese firm Moonshot AI released
00:10:17a model Kimi that is open source
00:10:21open weight which means you can kind of see the inners of it which American.
00:10:25firms by binage do not allow, people think it's
00:10:29very, very good, almost as good as the top American
00:10:32models, um, is it not likely that the
00:10:36most the world is going to adopt these
00:10:39open-weight Chinese models, because they
00:10:42are much cheaper, they can do mostly what you need to
00:10:45do, you know, most companies are not
00:10:48using uh AI to solve Firmats theorem,
00:10:52they're using it to rationalize the... inventory
00:10:55systems or things like that, so is this, does
00:10:59this mean China has an
00:11:01edge? I when I think about
00:11:05let's say American competitiveness in the digital sector
00:11:09or in the intac, it's always come from not
00:11:12any one thing, but it's come from this approach I think the
00:11:16US has always taken, which is the equal system approach all over the
00:11:20world, it's been export led, it's been about trust in our
00:11:24technology. Right, so for example, even take the Chinese models, guess what, where
00:11:28these models run? They run a lot the
00:11:32hyper scalers that are American all over the world, in fact that's
00:11:36good, because we then, these are open weight models that means we get to
00:11:39monitor them, we get to test them, we get to post strain them, so when
00:11:43tinker machines or thinking machines releases new model, is that an
00:11:47American model, is it a Chinese model, there may have been a base model that was
00:11:51Chinese, but they've done post training, they've released it, so I think that...
00:11:55"one the things that's lost in this is the
00:11:58understanding even of how the US became competitive in the
00:12:02first place, they didn't become competitive because of one invention, they
00:12:06became, we became competitive because we took our technology, we built
00:12:09a rich ecosystem where others could participate in other
00:12:13countries and trust our stewardship of this
00:12:16ecosystem, and as long as that remains we
00:12:20will absolutely be competitive and we will win, and Chinese will have
00:12:23role in it, whether it's in the open-weight models or other
00:12:27technologies, but it's not about that zero sum, it's about really
00:12:31thinking ecosystems. next on
00:12:34GPS, many people are worried about how AI
00:12:38uses their data, it may come as a
00:12:41surprise, but so is Satya Nadela. We'll discuss
00:12:45when we come back.
00:12:49Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella made headlines earlier this month when he
00:12:52warned that companies using Air. pay for
00:12:56intelligence twice, once with their actual payments to the
00:13:00AI firms and again with something even more precious,
00:13:04their data and their unique knowledge. In other words, asking AI
00:13:08questions doesn't just result in answers for us, it tells
00:13:11AI what we're thinking. This creates what Nadella has spend, the
00:13:15reverse information paradox, where AI models and
00:13:19their providers are the ones gaining more knowledge and
00:13:23overwhelmingly reaping the... benefits: more now of
00:13:27my conversation with satya nadela. so this is something
00:13:31you've been quite vocal about the idea yo put it in lemon's terms that
00:13:35every time you use an AI model you're giving them your data,
00:13:39you're giving them your thought your thought process and they're essentially
00:13:42stealing that and making their models better and eventually they
00:13:46they have all that information you don't a version of this happened to the
00:13:50media companies in the newspapers and
00:13:53magazines when Google and internet came
00:13:56about, so there's two arguments against this,
00:14:00one, what you're describing is of course very beneficial for Microsoft,
00:14:04because your business model relies on commoditizing that space,
00:14:08and then putting value where Microsoft has lots of
00:14:11products, is it feasible, is there a way in
00:14:15which you can take advantage of AI and still
00:14:18control your your data and your reasoning, particularly
00:14:22for average person, maybe a fancy company. like yours can
00:14:26do it, but how does an, how does an individual say, look, I do want
00:14:30to use AI, but I want
00:14:31to in some way be in charge of my
00:14:33data? 100%. so in fact, this
00:14:37is the the real question, right? because my thesis is simple, which is if
00:14:41the firm has to exist, let's take, let's leave consumer markets
00:14:44outside, because to some degree there's got to be some value exchange
00:14:48in the consumer space where you're getting something for free, maybe for your data, that's
00:14:52sort of how the advertising business model has worked. so let's leave that aside,
00:14:56but at the firm level, this is the first time where the decision should be,
00:15:00okay, I a firm that creates knowledge, and I
00:15:04need that knowledge to stay inside the firm. I not only have human capital,
00:15:08but now I'll have increasing levels of token capital. The
00:15:11only way to preserve that is what I describe as your
00:15:15control over ensuring that the reverse information paradox doesn't
00:15:19happen right, which is every time you use the model, all the
00:15:23metadata around it. is sort of retained by you so that you
00:15:27could use all of that to train perhaps your own weights or
00:15:30your own model and to me that's what i think is going to be
00:15:34absolutely you know you if you go back the
00:15:37patterns, copyrights, trademarks, all were created to protect
00:15:41the seller, this is the first time where we will need to have, i would say
00:15:45even the rights that protect the buyer, but even
00:15:49short of that, in the immediate term, there is an technical approach
00:15:53that's kind of what i wrote in my post that you could take uh to protect
00:15:57yourself right, where not only are you able to use the frontier
00:16:00models, but for example by keeping the harness separate from the model,
00:16:04the context and memory separate from the... model, you
00:16:08absolutely can use multiple models for what they're great
00:16:12at, at the same time any one model can go away and you can still
00:16:16continue to be in sort of control of your own destiny, and
00:16:19so to me there is an absolutely an approach
00:16:22and that's what
00:16:22a sensible approach, and it's
00:16:24of course not what Microsoft does, but it's not
00:16:28about a firm specific thing, because any firm that doesn't have
00:16:32this control, I will claim will not remain a firm because you've
00:16:35essentially outsourced your thinking. Let ask you about the future of work.
00:16:39Microsoft employs about 200 thousand people, but the
00:16:43number of AI programs and programmers, what people call
00:16:46agents, it's probably two million or 20 million
00:16:49soon. Um, is is it likely that
00:16:5310 years from now, Microsoft will either have the same number and
00:16:57not have grown or maybe even have fewer. Given the
00:17:01amount of work and the kind of quality of work,
00:17:04Anthropic says almost all its code is now. written at
00:17:08the first level by by computers, by
00:17:11AI, what happens to human beings? yeah,
00:17:15it's a great question, you know, if you think about this is the the real
00:17:19challenge in all these transformations right,
00:17:21the lump of labor fallacy and our lack of imagination get in the way right, which
00:17:25is if you sort of somebody came to us frid in the early 80s
00:17:29and said, hey,
00:17:30you know what, the billion people are going to get up in the morning and start
00:17:34typing, we would have said, why does the world need the million?
00:17:38except we invented in the last whatever 40 years this
00:17:42entire economy of knowledge work and
00:17:46all of us went to work it in different roles and so that's the type
00:17:50of transformation even inside of Microsoft right, what does it mean
00:17:54to be software engineer is changing because at some
00:17:58level these coding agents have made all of us right, creating a
00:18:01document
00:18:02or software program to some degree are now the same,
00:18:06does that mean some? how the specialized deep systems
00:18:10engineer who we still needed in order to be able to build the
00:18:13distributed systems in azasure goes away, no chance, but
00:18:17will anyone be able to create an app that required
00:18:21in the past some IT, absolutely, and so as that
00:18:25change diffuses, i think the core spine
00:18:29the organization, how we are organized, what functions we
00:18:33have, the work artifacts, the work flows will change
00:18:37way will change, and that
00:18:40process is going to have some significant displacement, it's all not going to be
00:18:44hunky dory, but when we come out on the other
00:18:47end, I absolutely believe there will be new jobs that we will
00:18:51value as humans, in fact you can see even today, right, what are the reasons all
00:18:55of us react to someone who gives you just pure AI output
00:18:59and you say, well
00:19:00I don't want that, I want
00:19:02to know that there was a human behind it who actually looked at
00:19:05it, and our ability. to discern what that human did
00:19:09with the AI output is going to be the new quality we will in fact
00:19:13value, and so I think as we get through this trans
00:19:16transformation, we will understand how humans
00:19:19continue to evolve and value each other's
00:19:22contribution to advancing our societies.
00:19:26People say that human creativity is the one thing that AI
00:19:30models cannot match, what if that's not true?
00:19:34I'll ask Satya Nadela that next.
00:19:38and now more of my exclusive interview with Satya Nadella, the
00:19:42CEO of Microsoft. I'm struck by something about AI.
00:19:46People often talk about creativity as one the things that human beings will
00:19:50be able to do that AI can't, but I'm strucked by because the nature of
00:19:54AI, it's a kind of predicting what with the the next
00:19:57likely word token, it's actually quite
00:20:01creative because it's kind of like a sense hallucination is the is
00:20:05is feature, not a bug, it's it's... thinking up things
00:20:09right, and so you love poetry, I love poetry.
00:20:12AI is astonishingly good at poetry, what does that tell you
00:20:16about what's left for human creativity?
00:20:20yeah, the fascinating thing is, it's that
00:20:22ability empower each of us to be more
00:20:26creative. I'll just give you even simple example this morning, right? you
00:20:30with the something like get up now, right? the ability, even for
00:20:34me, like I was a programmer, over the... years as
00:20:38I've evolved in the organization, it's not like I'm
00:20:41daily programming, but now I am, like this morning I come in and I wanted an
00:20:45app which went into my inbox, traged my inbox, created a project
00:20:49tracker. application just for myself, it was
00:20:53able to do that, to me to be able to have
00:20:57that power that somehow i can express
00:21:00a high level intent right, the like the intent
00:21:04itself is creativity, but then the rest of it was all
00:21:08executed and automated, i think is going
00:21:11to create, i would say new form of art, new form of
00:21:14expression, new form of ability to, i sort of sometimes
00:21:18describe the new work. has macro delegation and
00:21:22micro steering right, every one of us will become better
00:21:26at management through intense and at the same
00:21:30time having the ability to steer it exactly to the place where we
00:21:33want it. so a bunch of Microsoft employees, former
00:21:37employees have started a company and they say that that
00:21:41company is going to be run at the CEO level
00:21:45by AI, by an AI agent, so effectively they
00:21:48will they will... execute the orders that the AI
00:21:52CEO tells them, do you think that will work and
00:21:56why and why or why not? mean
00:21:59to having an agent that works for a
00:22:03CEO is like essentially
00:22:06delegated AI that takes your
00:22:09identity and your credentials, so to some
00:22:12degree I think we're already at an age where I think about
00:22:16the fundamental unit of work is a...
00:22:20human plus their agents, and at the end the
00:22:24day human control is what I think all of us will value
00:22:27personally, as institutions and
00:22:30as society, so that is the key thing, so even when for example, I
00:22:34thought what the Pope did at the Enceclical was fantastic right, because he talked
00:22:37about any technology that takes away human
00:22:41dignity and agency is going to be
00:22:44rejected by definition, right? I don't think we will accept it as a
00:22:48society, but anything that... empowers us to
00:22:52do more, to achieve more, to be more ambitious about what
00:22:56we can do, whether it's a CEO or a frontline worker, we
00:23:00will accept it, and so at least that's certainly the direction of travel that I'm for, and
00:23:03so do you think that it's fairly clear that the human
00:23:07being will be in control, you say he should, he or she should
00:23:11be in control, but do we have the kill switch, can we pull the
00:23:14plug, or do you worry as Elon Musk used to, that the
00:23:18machines will eventually... rule us,
00:23:22I,
00:23:22I think I have much more faith
00:23:26in our political economy and its
00:23:29institutions, that the backlash, right, I mean,
00:23:33you written a book about this, revolutions are
00:23:37great as long as the backlash is
00:23:40managed, and that's sort of being the lesson of
00:23:43history, and so I always say, that's why I want an English
00:23:47revolution, not a French one, and that will only... happen if we really
00:23:51really manage through this process where we are in control and
00:23:55that I think is the foundational issue that we will be
00:23:59defining our error. Satya Nandela, pleasure, thank you for coming
00:24:02on. Thank you so much fored, it's a pleasure. Next on
00:24:06GPS, in January, after American forces captured
00:24:10Venezuelan president Nicolas Maduro, many expected
00:24:14President Trump to install Maduro's main opposition,
00:24:17Maria Corina Machado. is the country's new
00:24:21leader, but she remains in exile.
00:24:25why? she joins after the
00:24:27break. earlier this week,
00:24:30federal judge stipulated that former Venezuelan president
00:24:34Nicolas Maduro and his wife would face trial in June
00:24:372027 on drug trafficking charges.
00:24:41when US forces struck Karacus and seized Maduro in
00:24:45January of this year, many had hoped that the opposition
00:24:48leader Maria Cor Machado would lead the country
00:24:52through democratic transition. Instead, Maduro's vice
00:24:56president. Rodriguez was installed as interim president
00:25:00and has been in power ever since. Maria Kurina
00:25:03Machado is a Nobel peace prize winner and she has been in
00:25:07exile since December 2025. She joins me
00:25:11now. Maria Korina, welcome and first let
00:25:14ask you what are you hearing about the situation on the ground in
00:25:18Venezuela with regard? to the earthquake, how bad is it, has
00:25:22it settled down? on the contrary, sorry, every day that goes
00:25:26by, the situation is more and more critic, this has been
00:25:29certainly the largest tragedy in Venezuela in recent history,
00:25:33we're talking about thousands of dead, still we don't have the right
00:25:37number, the clear number, the NGOs
00:25:41and civil society estimate over 40,000 people
00:25:45still missing, hundreds of buildings have
00:25:49collapses and structured damage is estimated by the UN
00:25:52in over 20 billion dollars, so this has been a huge
00:25:56tragedy, but that has also
00:25:59shown crucial realities on. one
00:26:02side, the solidarity, resilience,
00:26:06courage and capacity to organize the Venezuelan
00:26:09people, but on the other hand we've seen the absolute
00:26:13absence the state, with no zero
00:26:17capacities, they did not react, and what they
00:26:21did it was to obstruct the the the
00:26:25efforts that were being done by citizens, private citizens
00:26:28and international foreign foreign rescue mission.
00:26:32so this has, you know, we're still seeing
00:26:36people, hundreds of people, that it's all already
00:26:40amount, digging with their own hands, with no
00:26:43equipment whatsoever, looking for the their
00:26:47loved ones, so this has brought first
00:26:51fear, then indignation, and now I
00:26:55would say it's rage that it's growing in the Venezuelan
00:26:59population and the sense of urgency that
00:27:02grows every day, so you wanted to
00:27:06go back to Venezuela and visit your country,
00:27:10partly because the earthquake, partly because you feel it's important to
00:27:13start a process of democratic transition, the Trump
00:27:17administration from all reports essentially barred you from
00:27:21going, why? well, I've been in contact
00:27:25with with president Trump, secretary ruvio and many US officials
00:27:28during these last months and exchanging views in terms. of how
00:27:32to move ahead into the three phase plan that the the the
00:27:36US government has put in place in Venezuela and
00:27:40and the third phase it's very important to to
00:27:44remember is a transition process that
00:27:47requires legitimate election, we are
00:27:51seeing now the same regime that was in place when all
00:27:54these criminal activities were denounced and
00:27:58and and the the lack of trust
00:28:01towards "the regime and institutions that are in in ruwings
00:28:05in Venezuela is is is huge, so the only way we can move
00:28:09ahead into bringing relieve and
00:28:13hope to the Venezuelan people and also getting all the
00:28:17investment Venezuela requires now for the after the
00:28:20emergency, which is estimated in over 50 billion
00:28:24dollars, but but also to take advantage the
00:28:28huge resources Venezuela has, but that requires
00:28:31trust." that requires institutions, that
00:28:34requires legitimacy, the huge transformations
00:28:38that ought to be put in place in Venezuela have to have
00:28:42the support the Venezuelan people, and and the regime,
00:28:46the Rodriguez regime is in its lowest point
00:28:50of of support ever, and and it was, as I say,
00:28:54exacerbated after
00:28:55the the the earthquake, so yes, my desired from
00:28:59day one is to go back to Venezuela and when the... "the tragedy
00:29:03took place, i realize it was my
00:29:06duty to be with our people, being together,
00:29:10morning together, praying together, and that's the reason why I'm
00:29:14going to go back soon to my country. you will go back
00:29:17soon, I will,
00:29:21in the next month, well, I, I, we are planning the
00:29:25logistics that that are required for,
00:29:29you know, not only for rich in Venezuela, but for..." in
00:29:32Venezuela for for operating, for
00:29:36organizing the the democratic forces, for
00:29:39channeling all these anxiety and urgency that
00:29:43I mentioned before a a
00:29:47peaceful and democratic channel,
00:29:51that's precisely my goal and why I believe I need
00:29:55to be back, but President Trump has you spoken of
00:29:59you often in kind of dismissive ways and suggesting... that it's
00:30:03not right, it's not time for you to go, it's not right for you even go,
00:30:07the situation is great, do you regret having given him your
00:30:11Nobel peace prize? no, I don't, and I think that we
00:30:14wouldn't be here with this huge opportunity of
00:30:18having Venezuela,
00:30:20you know, turning into democratic nation, if it wasn't
00:30:24for the decision President Trump took on January
00:30:273rd, and the Secretary of State has been very
00:30:31clear in terms. of what it's needed in terms
00:30:35to to bring Venezuela and turn Venezuela into the great ally the United
00:30:38States, not only from security perspective, we need to dismantle
00:30:42these groups, get rid of Russia and Iranian, Cuba
00:30:46and the gorilla that is taking over has taken over Venezuelan
00:30:50territory, but turn Venezuela into the largest
00:30:53energy partner, a long-term
00:30:56alliance, and and look, I've been in contact with...