Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:01Trump administration is notoriously transactional, which
00:00:04means when it gives something, it wants
00:00:07something in return. They lifted sanctions,
00:00:10then made a visit to the
00:00:13hand, calls for White House, but got nothing in return as far as
00:00:16I know. So, the question is what they actually
00:00:20got. That is still unknown,
00:00:24I'm sure there's something behind it. We know some
00:00:27lobbyists were involved, but I don't think
00:00:30that was
00:00:34enough. I think there's a big piece missing from that
00:00:37puzzle regarding what Trump actually got
00:00:41for what he did for Dodik. Well,
00:00:44maybe the deal was to actually get nothing, just to give, or is getting
00:00:47this Dodik that we see
00:00:51today,
00:00:53who is, well, how can I say, encouraged, it seems to
00:00:56me, uhm, meetings
00:01:00in Washington, it is obvious that he
00:01:04went for support for secession, not only to Washington,
00:01:07but before that, to
00:01:10Israel. How does all this look to you? Did
00:01:13he get support for his secessionist
00:01:16actions?
00:01:24You would have to ask the administration,
00:01:27people to they did not send any signal in that regard to the
00:01:30public, but what they say in
00:01:33private, that is not
00:01:36known. What is confusing
00:01:39is that Dodik is getting
00:01:42sweets, symbolically speaking, from Washington, but
00:01:46also Vučić. So you have to explain
00:01:50why Dodik gets such sympathy, but also
00:01:53why Vučić doesn't get the same
00:01:56treatment?
00:01:59What I see here is a clear sign of a change
00:02:02in American policy, I see a pretty clear sign
00:02:06of a change in the way they
00:02:10prepare, or rather, how they treat
00:02:12Dodik, when it comes to quid pro quo,
00:02:16that is, getting something in return, I actually
00:02:20cannot speculate on that question what they could have gotten in
00:02:23return, I really don't know what it
00:02:25was,
00:02:28and actually I would like to encourage enterprising young journalists to discover
00:02:32that? Well, yes,
00:02:34and Herzegovina in Sarajevo know of course, we are trying, although
00:02:36I am not young, but still I am also trying
00:02:40to find out what happened, what is happening and what will
00:02:43happen next, but there are no answers, maybe
00:02:47this is also the new realpolitik, the new
00:02:50American approach, how does it all seem to you, Adnan,
00:02:53uh, I know you have been warning for
00:02:56years that all of this would happen, especially
00:03:00if official Sarajevo remains dormant as it
00:03:03has been all
00:03:05this time? First of all, thank you very much.
00:03:09Unfortunately, I had hoped I wouldn't come to this
00:03:12position. I had hoped I wouldn't be
00:03:16uh, there, having to uh, explain this
00:03:20again, to experience this again, which we unfortunately experienced. I started
00:03:24talking about it about ten years ago, that
00:03:27Washington D.C. has dramatically changed. "Washington
00:03:31D.C. is not the D.C. it was, even during
00:03:34the first Trump administration. I completely
00:03:37agree with Professor Server, here on the scene is
00:03:40transactional politics, politics
00:03:43of unilateralism and at best bilateralism,
00:03:45the right to uh, so that everything
00:03:48is to be expected, what can
00:03:52happen in relations between not only Bosnia and
00:03:55Herzegovina and the United States, but with the
00:03:58rest of the world, and we are all... we all are witnesses to that,
00:04:02however, there is one, one thing that needs to be seriously
00:04:06work through other channels divided, one is official American policy
00:04:08and that is, Professor spoke briefly
00:04:12publicly working to about it, the official policy of the United States towards
00:04:15Bosnia and Herzegovina has not changed,
00:04:18or rather, it has in the segment that they
00:04:22have returned to some initial settings and additionally
00:04:25said, agree among yourselves within Bosnia and
00:04:28Herzegovina. However, on the other hand, that is what is a big
00:04:32problem, which we always discussed before,
00:04:36that practically Bosnia and Herzegovina does not exist
00:04:39in a lobbying sense, that is the battle that
00:04:43currently secessionist forces
00:04:47are winning, that is the problem where I currently
00:04:51see it, I saw it in the past, I see it in
00:04:54the future, given that we know that next, next actions
00:04:58are coming, they have been announced on... Of course, it is natural
00:05:01that Mr. Čović will also come, who will, in this
00:05:04visit, use very similar
00:05:08paths to the administration that Mr.
00:05:12Dodik also used, as well as the new announcement by Mr. Dodik, that
00:05:16he will come again here to Washington D.C.
00:05:19in March, so
00:05:22I think that unfortunately many things are
00:05:25changing, that
00:05:28Sarajevo, official Sarajevo, pro-Bosnian-Herzegovinian
00:05:32forces must finally wake up and
00:05:35realize that they should use this crisis as
00:05:38an opportunity and as soon as possible I want
00:05:42to primarily say this part that refers to
00:05:45lobbying, as soon as possible they should find a way and return
00:05:49to the lobbying field in Washington, because lobbying here is
00:05:52legal and legitimate and desirable
00:05:55means, especially in the transactional politics
00:05:58of the administration of President
00:06:01Trump. Can everything really be bought
00:06:04with money in America, even secession?
00:06:16You see, at this moment I really don't think it can be
00:06:19bought. I think favor can
00:06:23undoubtedly be bought, that certain
00:06:27issues can be
00:06:30opened, which, unfortunately, when Pandora's
00:06:33box is opened, can create a lot
00:06:36of problems for pro-Bosnian-Herzegovinian
00:06:40forces, who are not doing
00:06:43well on that logistical part, compared to these other two
00:06:46two forces who unfortunately
00:06:48uh, in
00:06:52the best, in the best case, as
00:06:55they see it, a three-part , three-part entity
00:06:58division for Bosnia and Herzegovina.
00:07:02Of course, some of them ultimately dream
00:07:05of the final division of Bosnia and Herzegovina, so I don't think at this moment
00:07:09it's possible, but
00:07:12again, systematic work over 10
00:07:15years, for example, the office of Republika Srpska paying
00:07:19millions of dollars in
00:07:22the past 10-12 years,
00:07:25you see that it led to a situation where Bosnia
00:07:28and Herzegovina can still be talked about in a different way. Many people
00:07:32, as they say in America, took the American
00:07:34stance for granted. The American stance is no
00:07:38longer, and official diplomacy,
00:07:41official channels are one
00:07:45channel, however, at this moment they have
00:07:49their limits, so it is a serious warning that this other
00:07:52part of the action must be resolved
00:07:55as soon as possible, which means, practically
00:07:58tomorrow. Let me ask the professor, can
00:08:01everything be bought in America with lobbying
00:08:05money? Can Republika Srpska get what it didn't get in the war, what it didn't get in
00:08:09Dayton, a state?
00:08:13"To get that today through lobbying and ideological
00:08:17affinity with current American
00:08:20leaders, that Bosnia and Herzegovina, what it preserved
00:08:24with blood in Dayton got a state, however
00:08:27it was, actually
00:08:29loses it.
00:08:38I don't think it's possible to lose a country, but I think it is possible
00:08:41to buy almost everything in Washington these
00:08:45days,
00:08:48because this administration is extremely corrupt, they
00:08:52accept millions
00:08:55in cryptocurrency,
00:08:59so it's nothing more than
00:09:01fraud.
00:09:04And it is really completely clear that Trump's White
00:09:07House will sell almost
00:09:10everything for...
00:09:13Money.
00:09:18There is no
00:09:20possibility of dividing Bosnia into two parts. If that happens,
00:09:24Bosnia will be divided into three parts and it will not pass peacefully.
00:09:28putem.
00:09:32In my opinion, that has always been the case. And I felt that way even
00:09:36before the Trump administration.
00:09:39That the authorities in Sarajevo, if they want to keep their country,
00:09:43their state, they must have
00:09:44the capacity
00:09:47to lead that country on the ground,
00:09:51i.e., within Bosnia and Herzegovina.
00:09:54Frankly speaking, I don't know if they have
00:09:57such, such capacity. However, if they do,
00:10:01they must use it. On the other hand, if they
00:10:05don't, it will very soon become obvious
00:10:08if Dodik, or the current national
00:10:13leaders, do the worst and try to
00:10:16secede. I also want to clarify
00:10:19the following, that there is no membership in the European
00:10:23Union for Bosniak
00:10:25Bosnian Croats or Bosnian Serbs
00:10:29if they secede. Bosnian
00:10:32Croats already have a Croatian
00:10:35passport and already have some
00:10:39advantages in EU membership, but when it comes to
00:10:42Bosnian Serbs, this should represent a big
00:10:45problem for them.
00:10:48Neither Serbia nor Republika Srpska will be
00:10:51able to join the European
00:10:55Union if Bosnia is
00:10:57divided.
00:11:02I have so much faith in Europeans.
00:11:06Adnan, we're talking about millions, not billions. So
00:11:09where are those millions, here the Federation has an
00:11:13annual budget of several billions. Cantons
00:11:17have, here Sarajevo canton for years
00:11:20already more than a billion
00:11:23in budget, so how is it possible that several
00:11:27millions, tens of millions for
00:11:29lobbying in America cannot be found, if it is true what the professor says, and
00:11:33he knows very well that in America with this administration
00:11:37everything can be arranged and everything can be
00:11:39bought,
00:11:42well, again, we discussed that before, I think
00:11:45the problem is in the will, in
00:11:49the courage of certain
00:11:52adequately, I say that there were some
00:11:56attempts to do it in some way, however, it
00:12:00is known how it is done and of course it is
00:12:03possible to find two, three, five, 20 million,
00:12:07that is the least of the problems to do, because everything here is
00:12:10transparent, here you will come and sign one, two or five
00:12:13contracts with adequate lobbying
00:12:16organizations in Washington D.C., you find those who are
00:12:20closest to the administration, with five,
00:12:23six talking points, these people will work day and night for you
00:12:26and they will do their part of the job for what
00:12:30they are paid for, precisely for that reason for years I
00:12:34have been the one who tried to wake up the people in
00:12:37Sarajevo and the officials in Sarajevo to
00:12:41take that step, to take the correct step
00:12:45in the correct way, so that it is all absolutely transparent,
00:12:48meaning precisely for that reason I said earlier it's not
00:12:52too late, it can be done tomorrow.
00:12:55The people in Bosnia
00:12:59how it should be done and they need to
00:13:03funnel that money, whether it comes from private individuals, whether it
00:13:06comes from official institutions,
00:13:10it is completely irrelevant, what is important is that it is all transparent,
00:13:13signed in a transparent way, monitored in a
00:13:16transparent way and in America it will certainly be
00:13:19published in a transparent way on official
00:13:23channels.
00:13:33That's right, if there's no state, that's the problem, I,
00:13:37I apologize for that term, but we've been crying for the last
00:13:4110 years for it to happen, now it's finally time for
00:13:44it to happen, I completely agree with the professor
00:13:48here, meaning you have to show that you are credible,
00:13:51you have to play on that field and pay.
00:13:55What you have to pay, it's not all about money,
00:13:58you have to have a strategy of what to offer, here
00:14:02specifically the southern connection, interconnection is a good
00:14:05thing, but that's just one thing,
00:14:08Bosnian-Herzegovinian forces have a lot
00:14:11more things to offer than, say, those
00:14:15who are currently offering it, but I don't see anyone
00:14:19offering it, that's the problem, people, you have to
00:14:22understand that here it's no longer only conventional
00:14:26diplomacy that works, you have to
00:14:31through which you will reach adequate people
00:14:35who will ultimately lead you to that White
00:14:38House, where you will have the opportunity to deliver
00:14:41a message, and also you will have the opportunity to
00:14:45offer, because what the professor emphasized, I completely
00:14:48agree with him, this is a time of transactions, gentlemen,
00:14:52accept the time of transactions and start playing this game,
00:14:56if you want to preserve Bosnia and Herzegovina as a sovereign
00:15:00state in the future. Well, is there anything
00:15:03more honorable than lobbying, if it must be, in America
00:15:07for the survival of a unified state, Bosnia
00:15:11and Herzegovina, sovereign, in which all
00:15:14people will live together and not allow
00:15:18lobbying and, as
00:15:21they say, acting on
00:15:24breaking up the state. But here, when we talk
00:15:27about those who are full of patriotism,
00:15:31these who, for example, now from the "Troika"
00:15:35represent these pro-Bosnian-Herzegovinian
00:15:37parties,
00:15:40we see a mix of ridicule, actually
00:15:43trivialization of these actions
00:15:47of separatists in America, on the other
00:15:51a final awakening, formation
00:15:54of some unified
00:15:57pro-Bosnian-Herzegovinian bloc, uh,
00:16:00does that seem to you actually tragic, tragically comical and very
00:16:04dangerous that people who currently call
00:16:08themselves and want to present themselves as great patriots, in fact
00:16:11understand what is
00:16:13happening?
00:16:17You are asking me, well, I ask both the professor and
00:16:20you, Professor,
00:16:32I would not really like to comment on
00:16:34Bosnian politicians when it comes to this, but I want
00:16:37to comment on the American side, it is simply
00:16:41shameful and it is about a sudden
00:16:44change from the past in relation to
00:16:47the past.
00:16:50So, this kind of financial lobbying
00:16:53was not done in the past in Washington.
00:16:56Of course, there was lobbying because lobbying is
00:16:59legal, you have to come and explain some
00:17:03things to members of Congress and the White House, that was always
00:17:06the case.
00:17:11However, this type of lobbying with a large amount
00:17:15of money is not typical. When I was an official in
00:17:18the government, I was not high-ranking,
00:17:22but I had certain
00:17:24responsibilities.
00:17:27I would refuse to arrange a meeting with
00:17:30someone,
00:17:32with someone who would seek something through lobbyists. I
00:17:36would tell that person, "Address me
00:17:40directly, I don't want someone to earn
00:17:43money because of the very privilege of being able to
00:17:47meet with me. I would actually
00:17:50accept a meeting with anyone who asks me directly
00:17:53and whom I consider credible.
00:17:57So, this is a big change from the past, really
00:18:01big,
00:18:03and I think many American officials, like
00:18:07me, were impatient with
00:18:10lobbyists. I didn't like it when they came to
00:18:14my office, but when someone wanted a meeting
00:18:17with me, I always wanted them to contact me directly, to call me and ask for
00:18:21a meeting. You know, we've come a long
00:18:25way, it's not at all
00:18:28surprising that it's hard for Bosnians to
00:18:31understand how much things have changed in
00:18:34Washington, and things really
00:18:37practically changed.
00:18:40The behavior that I can see today,
00:18:43would have sent you to prison behind bars, even just a
00:18:47few years ago. Well,
00:18:50just a few months ago, actually, Dodik's behavior could have sent him
00:18:53to prison, and he got a prison sentence of a
00:18:56year, which he bought off. Now,
00:19:00he's a partner, an interlocutor, very direct,
00:19:03but Adnan, I want you to comment on this behavior.
00:19:07Yes, very, very much so. The professor
00:19:10wanted to be politically correct so
00:19:13he didn't criticize these
00:19:16politicians in Sarajevo, but you as a Bosnian
00:19:20have absolutely
00:19:23do so. Yes, I, as both a Bosnian and a Bosnian-
00:19:26American, who has long advocated
00:19:30for strengthening relations between BiH and
00:19:33the United States and the United States with Bosnia and Herzegovina.
00:19:37"I have every right to comment on that and
00:19:41I will try to be very realistic and very, I will try to
00:19:44keep myself at a certain level, statesmanlike in the sense
00:19:48that I will say the following,
00:19:52that I am at the very least
00:19:55saddened by what I currently see
00:19:58in political Sarajevo, that
00:20:02political Sarajevo in February of this
00:20:06year has entered this topic into its
00:20:09pre-election campaign, this is a message
00:20:12to both the position and the opposition,
00:20:15because the position was the opposition, and those who
00:20:19are today the opposition were once
00:20:22the position, so on this issue of
00:20:25lobbying, they did absolutely nothing, so
00:20:29both of them from the point of view
00:20:32of lobbying in Washington D.C. are, as they say
00:20:36in Bosnia and Herzegovina, on the same
00:20:38track.
00:20:41Minimization, minimization
00:20:44is not good, especially
00:20:46knowing that there is
00:20:50continuous systematic
00:20:52work from the past 10 years, which
00:20:56has led to certain results, and this
00:21:00moment has been long awaited and now
00:21:03you have a climate in Washington
00:21:06that accepts such a type of rhetoric
00:21:10and discourse, and you have pamphlets
00:21:13that officials from Republika Srpska were carrying,
00:21:17where they present that in Bosnia and
00:21:20Herzegovina a clash of civilizations is happening,
00:21:24a map of Republika Srpska is shown
00:21:27as a bulwark of defense against under quotation marks
00:21:31impending some kind of
00:21:35Muslims who are a European
00:21:37people, a people who strive, if anyone is
00:21:41pro-European, if anyone
00:21:43is pro- NATO, NATO in Bosnia
00:21:47and Herzegovina, then it is precisely them.
00:21:51pro-Bosnians and mostly Bosniaks,
00:21:54to put that aside, to put it in its
00:21:58place, gentlemen in Sarajevo
00:22:02need to stop engaging in petty politics
00:22:05and understand the moment that this is
00:22:09a turning point in relations between Bosnia and
00:22:12Herzegovina and the United States,
00:22:15stop doing what they are doing,
00:22:19sit down seriously at the table, agree
00:22:22on five points with which they should
00:22:25send someone to sign a contract with three
00:22:29or four lobbying firms and start covering that part of the ground,
00:22:33to be fair, this other
00:22:36diplomatic part, established diplomatic practice,
00:22:40to be fair, is moving forward
00:22:43in that segment, certain
00:22:46officials have made serious progress compared to those
00:22:50who were before, one needs to be realistic and tell the truth,
00:22:53however you say it, I think it's important to
00:22:57emphasize, because now that this opposition,
00:23:00the SDA first of all, is attacking the Trojka, it seems that
00:23:03everything was wonderful, beautiful while they were in power, as if
00:23:07all these actions by Dodik have been going on since
00:23:10the Trojka came to power,
00:23:14that's why it's so important to emphasize that, mhm, I mean,
00:23:17of course, it doesn't help the Trojka
00:23:20that they didn't do their job, so here Foreign Minister
00:23:24Konaković yesterday is not talking about there
00:23:27being money for lobbying for Bosnia and Herzegovina, but
00:23:31rather he publicly reveals lobbying
00:23:34contracts for Republika Srpska, we, we get nothing
00:23:37from that contract, no
00:23:39lobbyists, so precisely
00:23:43we get nothing from that contract, we must have, as
00:23:47Bosnians, contracts
00:23:50signed as early as tomorrow with the strongest
00:23:53lobbying firms that will start doing that
00:23:57part of the work of suppressing
00:24:00that part, because people forget that Washington is no longer Washington, it has
00:24:04serious elements, people who work here
00:24:07do lobbying activities,
00:24:10they give access directly
00:24:14to administration officials, precisely what the professor
00:24:17so beautifully elaborated, that before
00:24:21it wasn't quite like that, lobbying has always been
00:24:24part of the system and was desirable, however
00:24:27it was not at this level, that it was so, let's
00:24:31say, brutally open, and that's why, that's why
00:24:34the cards, if you'll excuse the expression, have aligned
00:24:37for these retrograde forces
00:24:41coming from Republika Srpska, represented
00:24:44by Milorad Dodik. If professor, uh, uh,
00:24:48these patriots from Sarajevo
00:24:51politically do nothing, don't get involved in this
00:24:54game for the survival of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and those
00:24:58who are very openly,
00:25:02divide it, what will actually
00:25:04happen? Is it possible to really expect in
00:25:08one moment that this country will
00:25:12be divided, that the Dayton
00:25:15Agreement will collapse?
00:25:24You know, that is entirely possible, something like that can
00:25:27happen. We haven't mentioned it yet, but it is certain
00:25:31that Russia would be very pleased to see such
00:25:35a situation.
00:25:38Because that would destroy what America
00:25:41achieved, it would destabilize the Balkans in a general
00:25:44sense, and NATO would have a huge
00:25:47problem.
00:25:50There, also for Europeans, they would have a big problem they would have
00:25:53to deal with. Yes, it has always been possible, even
00:25:57since the signing of the Dayton Agreement, that
00:26:00Bosnia and Herzegovina could
00:26:03be divided, but as I said
00:26:06earlier, there is no possibility of a peaceful
00:26:09separation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, only
00:26:12a violent one.
00:26:14And that is the main reason why that should be
00:26:17avoided.
00:26:20Because here it is not only about Bosnian patriotism,
00:26:23here it is about avoiding death and
00:26:26destruction.
00:26:28And I saw a lot of that during the war, when I was not
00:26:32only in Sarajevo, but I traveled with the Federation
00:26:35forces through the territory of the Federation, I was here during
00:26:39the war, so no one should want to go back to
00:26:42that, but that would
00:26:44happen.
00:26:47That would happen if real efforts were made
00:26:51for
00:26:51secession.
00:26:55And I think that the Russians, who have turned
00:26:59much more to the Balkans in recent years. I think the
00:27:03Russians would want to play with such
00:27:06a state, anything that would cause more problems for
00:27:09NATO, or that would open a second
00:27:12front, that would be to the advantage
00:27:16of the Russians.
00:27:20Russians don't have to send their people to the Balkans, they just
00:27:23need to see that second front created and people in
00:27:27Bosnia killing each other, that would be a huge problem for
00:27:30the West. That's why I think. I think we should really take
00:27:34this situation seriously.
00:27:37We must recognize that Dodik is doing something, so I have
00:27:41always taken Dodik
00:27:42seriously.
00:27:46We know how elections are held in
00:27:49Republika Srpska, they are not perfect, but
00:27:53he has been an elected politician for a long time in that entity and he is
00:27:56a democratically confirmed politician in that entity,
00:28:00in a way he has to fulfill what he promises, and what he
00:28:04promises is secession.
00:28:07And that's why I think we must take his words seriously,
00:28:11as well as his ties with Russia.
00:28:14That's right, well, of course Russia seems to
00:28:17support all this that is
00:28:19happening. Dodik says that there are 15 countries
00:28:23that would immediately recognize an independent Republika Srpska. What
00:28:26do you think, professor, would that be Russia,
00:28:30Israel, Hungary. Even America under
00:28:33Trump
00:28:44Trump would recognize the independence of Republika
00:28:47Srpska. America under
00:28:49Trump.
00:28:51I think there are political ways in Washington,
00:28:55you saw that in the latest legislation
00:28:59in the law that was... passed,
00:29:03so, democratization, economic
00:29:06development, as well as the European future for Bosnia and
00:29:09Herzegovina are supported. You can see that that
00:29:12political, political weight is actually significant
00:29:16and that's why I
00:29:18don't think,
00:29:21I don't think that the United States of America would recognize
00:29:24an independent Republika Srpska, and actually for
00:29:2815 countries to do that, that would be a disaster.
00:29:36for Republika Srpska, not just for Bosnia, but for Republika Srpska. So, that's not enough to
00:29:39get real international
00:29:41recognition. Kosovo received recognition from
00:29:45115 countries, it is still not universally
00:29:48accepted, as for Republika Srpska, they will not be
00:29:52level. Would
00:29:55Russia, would Israel, would Hungary, Serbia
00:29:58recognize recognize Republika Srpska
00:30:02if? Dodik really carries out all his threats and declares secession.
00:30:24cause serious problems, since they
00:30:27do not recognize Palestine, how could they then recognize Republika
00:30:30Srpska. They do not allow the recognition
00:30:34of Palestine, the same applies to Russia, let's say Russia claims
00:30:37that Ukraine is
00:30:40theirs, would they really be happy, or satisfied if
00:30:44Republika Srpska were recognized, I highly doubt it,
00:30:47that would be inconsistent with their policy
00:30:51towards Ukraine. As for Hungary,
00:30:53Hungary should be
00:30:57restrained by the policy of the European Union.