Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00to your viewers.
00:00:02Let's immediately address this topic which took up the most space
00:00:06in the introduction, namely, the glorification of the convicted war
00:00:09criminal Ratko Mladić, which we, which we witnessed
00:00:13in the previous, in the previous days. We know that European Commissioner for
00:00:16Enlargement Marta Kost recently cancelled her visit
00:00:19to Serbia. She stated that one cannot negotiate the
00:00:22dignity of victims, genocide and war crimes,
00:00:26reacting, of course, to the scenes, and what...
00:00:30interests me is how you evaluate, first of all,
00:00:34everything we saw from official Belgrade
00:00:38and parts of, of course, Bosnia and Herzegovina. On the other
00:00:41hand, what we had the opportunity to see as
00:00:45a reaction from the European Union, well, Marta Kos and her
00:00:48move is perhaps only the most prominent part
00:00:51of that.
00:00:54Yes, I agree with what Marta Kost said,
00:00:58certainly the glorification of someone
00:01:00who has been convicted of war crimes has no place
00:01:04in the European Union, has no place in a
00:01:07modern society. Uh, that
00:01:11is certainly not a good message,
00:01:14certainly, because Ratko Mladić, not only was he
00:01:17a criminal, in my opinion, he wasn't
00:01:21really a general, I mean, someone who fights against
00:01:24civilians, uh, he actually didn't win
00:01:28a single battle. That
00:01:31is very debatable,
00:01:35but uh, I cannot now
00:01:38condemn some individuals and citizens for how
00:01:41they think about Ratko Mladić and so on, but
00:01:45I certainly cannot agree with officials
00:01:49who glorify Ratko Mladić
00:01:51and in fact, the citizens
00:01:54of Bosnia and Herzegovina are losing, as
00:01:59are other Western Balkan countries
00:02:02because of such policies. I think that since Dayton
00:02:05a lot of time has passed and today we
00:02:09should be discussing completely
00:02:12different topics, we should be discussing today how
00:02:16Bosnia and Herzegovina will join
00:02:19the society called the European Union,
00:02:22uh, but I'm really worried about these events,
00:02:26I'm really worried that Bosnia and Herzegovina
00:02:30uh... uh is not going
00:02:33anywhere practically regarding European
00:02:37issues, we have three entities
00:02:40of which only, as I see it, I mean, that's my opinion now,
00:02:43don't blame me, but I only see
00:02:47Bosniaks somehow viewing Bosnia and Herzegovina
00:02:51as completely their own
00:02:54country, while the other two
00:02:56entities have uh...
00:03:00have sentiments towards either Zagreb
00:03:03or Belgrade and that's somehow
00:03:07not good, I mean, if Bosnia and Herzegovina
00:03:10is one country, uh,
00:03:13a united country, at least it
00:03:16should be, then it should go
00:03:19the European way, but
00:03:22I am also an observer on
00:03:25this board for financial
00:03:29resources. which are for
00:03:32the growth plan for the Western Balkans and Bosnia and
00:03:35Herzegovina is not drawing any money precisely
00:03:39because of those those
00:03:42indecisions that are not being made,
00:03:45so the citizens are losing and the citizens are the ones who
00:03:49need to consider whether the
00:03:52future of Bosnia and Herzegovina is in
00:03:55the past or whether the past is something that
00:03:58should be left behind and move
00:04:02forward. I think that's the main question and
00:04:05the question is, I mean, we
00:04:08had the Second
00:04:11World War 80-something years ago, there
00:04:15are also those who deny
00:04:18the Holocaust, and Srebrenica was
00:04:21a genocide, and
00:04:24we, uh, I think that someone
00:04:27glorifying someone who caused...
00:04:30Srebrenica, that is in a
00:04:33modern European society, that is unimaginable, that is
00:04:36unimaginable. Excuse me for interrupting you, that's exactly why I want
00:04:40to ask you, can the European Union really have a credible enlargement policy
00:04:43towards the Western Balkans, as long as
00:04:47someone who is a candidate country, whose
00:04:50political leadership openly glorifies a person
00:04:54who is guilty of genocide?
00:04:57Well, I think that the European
00:05:01Union, I mean, we all,
00:05:05some are surprised in the European Union why students in Belgrade
00:05:08didn't have European flags, that doesn't
00:05:12surprise me, if... "if the European Union
00:05:15doesn't have some clear stance towards
00:05:19Serbia, i.e. towards
00:05:21uh, those who lead Serbia,
00:05:25uh, then that shouldn't surprise us. So
00:05:29uh, it's the same for the entire Western
00:05:32Balkans, the European Union,
00:05:35I mean, we remember the past, I remember, I was
00:05:39almost a child when the war was,
00:05:43'91 to..." '95, and then I asked
00:05:46what the Western community was doing, I mean, they went to
00:05:50Belgrade until '95 and said there
00:05:53that Milošević was some peacemaker, I don't know what all
00:05:56we heard then,
00:05:59and we know that at Gazimestan
00:06:02a policy started in '89 which
00:06:05caused all that which burdens us
00:06:08even today, or which burdens the Western
00:06:12Balkans. So I think that the European Union should
00:06:16have a clear stance towards such
00:06:19such events and
00:06:23such glorifications, and of course it
00:06:26cannot have any credibility when
00:06:29there are some double
00:06:32standards in question. I mean, it must be clear, my
00:06:36personal opinion is that
00:06:40that has no place in Europe and it is a fact,
00:06:44mhm, well, when you mention your personal
00:06:47opinion, what do you think would be the most adequate reaction
00:06:50in this situation, how should the European Union have actually established that
00:06:54boundary between, on the one hand, European dialogue on enlargement, and on the other
00:06:58hand, tolerating uh behavior that is in complete
00:07:02opposition to European criteria?
00:07:05I mean, I think we all forget a little
00:07:08why all this is being done and why.
00:07:12the Western Balkans wants to be in the European Union, it's for
00:07:16the citizens, it's for the citizens, it's all being done for them
00:07:19and they should live better in the future
00:07:23and that's why
00:07:26we are too little in contact with citizens
00:07:29and we address them
00:07:32too little and explain some things
00:07:35and so, uh, I think
00:07:39that the European Union should clearly...
00:07:42say that we want the Western Balkans to join
00:07:46the European Union and that
00:07:49it would, but that it needs
00:07:52to respect uh European values,
00:07:56because the European Union is not
00:07:58just uh, it's not just about money, but it's
00:08:02about values and some countries, when
00:08:06money is drawn, when when money is at stake,
00:08:09then uh they do everything to
00:08:13uh to uh meet
00:08:16those criteria, but when
00:08:19values are at stake, then it's already harder, so
00:08:23a clear message should be sent uh to all politicians,
00:08:26politicians of the Western
00:08:30Balkans, that the past is the past and there
00:08:33can be no reconciliation, imagine the mothers
00:08:37of Srebrenica when they see the glorification of Ratko
00:08:40Mladić, that's that. That's salt,
00:08:43again salt, new salt on the wound, and how will
00:08:47we come to a reconciliation and how will
00:08:50we start talking about some issues
00:08:53that are of an economic
00:08:56nature, political nature and so
00:08:58on.
00:09:01Yes, you sent similar messages, given that you act as the European
00:09:05rapporteur for Montenegro, when
00:09:08certain glorification by officials
00:09:12there appeared... you clearly told them, whoever does that is not
00:09:16ready for Europe, and let's just briefly stay on that
00:09:18question, does it, I assume certain officials
00:09:22didn't surprise you, given that we know for what purposes it is used, did
00:09:26the narrative of young people largely
00:09:30in Montenegro, in Serbia, in
00:09:34Republika Srpska, surprise you, how
00:09:37devastating are their reactions or their
00:09:40silence after all, the glorification
00:09:42of Mladić.
00:09:45After 16 years of politics, nothing can surprise
00:09:48me anymore, or very
00:09:51little, but the fact that
00:09:53young people, uh, their attitudes
00:09:57are what they are, I think, that's the Western Balkans,
00:10:01you know, it's a region where you need
00:10:04to look in the rearview mirror more than forward. Uh,
00:10:07so, uh, in the Western Balkans, everything
00:10:11is done for.
00:10:25is the worst poison in the Western Balkans,
00:10:28nationalism is always
00:10:31the easiest, the easiest way
00:10:35for not thinking about real
00:10:39issues and it's harder to
00:10:42achieve good economic results, it's harder
00:10:45to give young people a
00:10:48future, so it's easiest for some
00:10:51politicians to turn to nationalism.
00:10:55Then emotions are stirred up,
00:10:57when emotions are at stake, we know how
00:11:01it is and that's somehow
00:11:04uh, some politicians enjoy the people
00:11:07fighting among themselves, for the people
00:11:11to forget about fundamental problems
00:11:15and then to fight about some issues
00:11:18of the past that should have been buried a long time ago, so
00:11:22uh I think. I think
00:11:25that the Western Balkans
00:11:29will still have a lot to do so that
00:11:33the past is not
00:11:35so prominent as
00:11:39it is. I would like, before we
00:11:42return with a brief overview of everything that awaits you today
00:11:46in the European Parliament, to briefly address the situation in your country,
00:11:50namely in Slovenia, a major change has occurred
00:11:53in foreign policy which somehow quickly became visible and
00:11:57attracted a lot of attention, that somehow
00:12:01also in Bosnia and Herzegovina here, a changed attitude towards Israel,
00:12:04but much less attention, it seems to me, what could be a changed
00:12:08attitude towards Bosnia and Herzegovina, I believe you have followed that
00:12:11recently the president of the National Assembly of Republika
00:12:15Srpska, Nenad Stevandić, was actually received on the first official
00:12:19visit by the president of the Slovenian
00:12:22Parliament, Stevanović, and this was actually the first time in...
00:12:25the history of our relations that an
00:12:27entity leader was received before state officials.
00:12:31Many believe that this could, uh, could be
00:12:35the first example, although perhaps insignificant, in the
00:12:38change of Slovenia's course towards Bosnia and Herzegovina, placing precisely
00:12:41entity officials before state
00:12:45ones. Does it seem to you that it will be so with
00:12:48Janša?
00:12:50Well, you know how it is, we live today in an era
00:12:54of political... dilettantism, a
00:12:57dilettantism that no longer respects any
00:13:01boundaries, we see
00:13:03that even in Washington, your previous guest
00:13:07talked about it, we see that
00:13:10everywhere, so in Slovenia, unfortunately now
00:13:13some political dilettantes are in power
00:13:17who, uh, whether they do it
00:13:20intentionally, whether they do
00:13:23it intentionally, whether they don't know what it's
00:13:27about, either way, it's certainly not good, first
00:13:30of all, one must know that Republika Srpska is not
00:13:33an independent state,
00:13:37uh, then that politician, as
00:13:40far as I know, he also glorified Ratko
00:13:43Mladić, our Mr. Stevanović who
00:13:46got this position, he
00:13:49used the opportunity,
00:13:52or he was given the opportunity to... to take that position
00:13:56of President of Parliament now
00:14:00he
00:14:02whether he's a dilettante, whether he's not, whether he knows exactly
00:14:06what he's doing, he talks about a visit to Moscow, then
00:14:10he talks about then he receives
00:14:13officials from Republika Srpska, uh, well,
00:14:17and we know that Janez Janša, our
00:14:20Prime Minister, took loans in
00:14:23Republika, i.e., his
00:14:26party took loans in Republika
00:14:30Srpska, uh, so those ties exist
00:14:33and I certainly cannot be
00:14:36enthusiastic about those events,
00:14:39it
00:14:43worries me and it's certainly not good
00:14:46for Slovenia, not for
00:14:49the Western Balkans, no, not
00:14:52for anyone, so I...
00:14:55"I can only comment on it as some
00:14:59uh, or as I said, either
00:15:02dilettantism or some intention to
00:15:05destabilize
00:15:08everything, to have chaos, to
00:15:11have, I don't know, Mr.
00:15:14Stevanović also has a
00:15:17representative in parliament who is, uh, who
00:15:21owes money to his workers, and
00:15:24who..." uh, I mean, these are, these are such stories
00:15:27that are not very
00:15:29European stories, so unfortunately I can only
00:15:33say that I hope it won't
00:15:37do too much damage,
00:15:39all of that. You say you heard
00:15:42part of my conversation with the previous interlocutor, I believe you
00:15:46only heard the end, somewhere in the middle he mentioned
00:15:50Slovenia, or the new Slovenian government,
00:15:53saying that Janša could be that new European
00:15:55lever of power instead of Orban
00:15:59for Dodik and his associates here,
00:16:02he mentioned the lifting
00:16:05of sanctions, very briefly. Is that, in your opinion,
00:16:09a completely likely scenario?
00:16:13Well, the previous Slovenian government
00:16:16banned uh Milorad
00:16:19Dodik from entering Slovenia, we'll see what this new
00:16:23government will do, of course
00:16:25Janša has some ideas that are inclined
00:16:29towards
00:16:32the right, the European right,
00:16:35and we'll see how
00:16:39strong he will be within
00:16:43the European Council, uh, this
00:16:47policy towards Israel is certainly not, not
00:16:51good, uh, what it
00:16:54is
00:16:57that's some, some policy
00:16:58of some,
00:17:03how should I put it, some, some,
00:17:09some sycophancy
00:17:11towards foreigners, that's how I see
00:17:14it, and before that was Orban, then
00:17:17and Thompson's Thompson's
00:17:21concerts, these politicians of ours
00:17:25go to, uh, so these
00:17:28are all, these are all some ideologies
00:17:31that, that we learned about
00:17:34in the 20th century and they didn't
00:17:38prove to be good for Europe, now
00:17:41earlier you asked me how young people view it,
00:17:45young people don't even know that,
00:17:49uh, history has that, uh,
00:17:52that characteristic that it's easily forgotten, so
00:17:56I mean, really, in Slovenia now there's
00:17:59not really a policy in power
00:18:02that would thrill me,
00:18:06but uh... The situation is what it is, I hope
00:18:10that eventually, I mean, we've
00:18:13experienced all sorts of things, so I think that in
00:18:17the end something
00:18:20will, something will
00:18:23be different after some, some
00:18:27period, if nothing else, for major
00:18:31changes, i.e., shifts in foreign policy, mostly I mean Israel,
00:18:35immediately citizens
00:18:37responded with massive protests and that's what's
00:18:40somehow most important, at least in a proper way
00:18:44to cultivate that culture of protest as a civic
00:18:47response, that's right, that's right, because, because
00:18:51you know, uh, one cannot, how can
00:18:55one not Israel uh, uh, still,
00:18:59uh, to say that, to
00:19:02piggyback on the
00:19:05Holocaust, it doesn't have... Putin on the Second World
00:19:09War and one should clearly
00:19:12condemn, one should condemn the policy
00:19:16that Netanyahu is leading today, one should
00:19:19condemn the policy that Putin is leading,
00:19:22and if the Soviet Union was a hero in
00:19:26World War II, Putin certainly is not, if
00:19:29the Jews were victims
00:19:33and heroes in World War II.
00:19:37There, uh, how many were killed, 6 million
00:19:41or even more, but these
00:19:44uh, these acts that are happening
00:19:47today, certainly are not, are not
00:19:51to their credit and today's policy cannot
00:19:54say that because
00:19:57of the Holocaust uh that what it's doing
00:20:01is just, that's certainly, that's my opinion, that's
00:20:05the opinion of all those who watch. who are
00:20:08Europeans, so that should be condemned, in
00:20:11Ljubljana there were protests immediately, a lot
00:20:14of people came and if such a
00:20:17policy continues, there will be even
00:20:21more of that, certainly, mhm, yes, but a message of that type,
00:20:25a united one, is certainly missing when it comes to Gaza,
00:20:28it is missing from the top of the European Union,
00:20:31or uh, a united, the European
00:20:34Union should be united in its stance towards Gaza, unfortunately.
00:20:41I agree with that, the strongest weapon the European
00:20:44Union has is unity,
00:20:47and when there is no unity, then that
00:20:51unity is already broken and
00:20:54the power is already less, so I fully
00:20:58agree with you, uh, but
00:21:01the parliament of which I am a member
00:21:04uh has condemned this on several occasions,
00:21:08I think the parliament should be separated from
00:21:11other institutions, because the parliament
00:21:14has strongly advocated and
00:21:18is still advocating for
00:21:21the condemnation of all these acts that we are talking