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00:07:07In a society that often talks about origin, blood, ancestors and
00:07:11differences among people, genetics sometimes offers very
00:07:14unexpected answers, how different we really are and how
00:07:17similar, what science says about identity, heritage and
00:07:21beliefs that have been passed down through generations as indisputable
00:07:24truths, from who actually continues the lineage to
00:07:28the belief that the birth of a son is particularly important for the family, to
00:07:31the question of how much biology, how much tradition and patriarchy
00:07:35stands behind such attitudes, can genetics overthrow some of
00:07:38our longest-held beliefs about origin, identity, heritage?
00:07:42The guest of the new day is geneticist Anela Zorla Kujdurović, good morning and welcome,
00:07:46thank you very much for being with us this morning, good morning and thank you
00:07:49for the invitation on such an interesting topic, yes,
00:07:53when we talk about origin and identity, how much can genetics really tell us
00:07:56about who we are? Yes, genetics, as a biology, can indeed
00:08:00explain our origin, blood relatives,
00:08:04let's say the origin of our ancestors, but we must really draw a very
00:08:07difficult parallel between origin and
00:08:09identity, because origin is one thing and identity is another. That's because many
00:08:13factors, including genetics, influence that identity itself,
00:08:16our origin, family, culture, language,
00:08:20customs, all of that somehow creates identity, so I always
00:08:23like to say that we must be careful what genetics will tell us, that we must truly
00:08:27filter that information in the right way and
00:08:29use it, we often emphasize mutual differences, especially
00:08:33here in our regions, generally in the Balkans, how similar
00:08:36we are genetically in this area to each
00:08:40other? Well, that's the question. I mean, for ages, we always ask
00:08:43that question, especially us in the Western Balkans, and I really try, and surely many
00:08:47of my colleagues, to explain that these are really small differences, if we talk about
00:08:51genetics, or genomics, genomic origin, we
00:08:55are not only related to the Western Balkans, but generally
00:08:58people, the entire human population, we differ by only 0.1%
00:09:02in every nucleotide, which means we are actually similar
00:09:0599.9%, these differences are really
00:09:08small, miniature, but they are very important, why are they important? They are important
00:09:12in terms of medicine, they are important in terms of rare
00:09:15diseases, they are important in terms of oncology, because these differences now
00:09:18allow us a certain precision, a certain sensitivity in which direction
00:09:22we should optimize treatment, diagnostics and so on and so forth, in that clinical
00:09:26sense, unfortunately not in the sense that we use it more and more
00:09:29today, yes, so you say generally the human
00:09:32population, people all over the world, these are minimal differences, then
00:09:36we can only assume how minimal the
00:09:40differences are among us here in this area in the narrower sense, that is, in our
00:09:43country of Bosnia and Herzegovina, yes, that is a very interesting phenomenon that we need
00:09:47to discuss, we were not a closed population, we are a population that
00:09:51has moved a lot throughout history, we mixed,
00:09:54we settled in other areas, we were not consistent in one area, so
00:09:58we have a pure generation, a pure population, so
00:10:02we can go back and see the origin of our ancestors,
00:10:05there we would probably be even more surprised at how similar
00:10:08we really are in that regard, because if we look at some historical facts.
00:10:12The conquests of these areas, migrations from these areas towards the interior
00:10:16of Europe, but to other continents, then we see that genetics complicates
00:10:19things a bit, that we have over-simplified it - well,
00:10:22I dare say banalized it for some of our personal purposes that have nothing to do with
00:10:26science, yes, very often for political purposes, unfortunately, and I avoid
00:10:30using that term, but that's it, we can see here how
00:10:34physically similar we are to each other, so these are minimal,
00:10:38almost non-existent differences, that's right, so
00:10:41genetics cannot confirm the ideas of pure origin, special
00:10:44peoples or, God forbid, superiority of some over
00:10:47others, no, these are just, let's say, philosophies that have accompanied us throughout
00:10:50history, distant history and more modern, I would say, history, where we have
00:10:54philosophies of individuals who want to go in that direction, but
00:10:57genetics, or science, is very strict and clear that
00:11:01genetic and genetic information cannot be used in that sense
00:11:04of some pure superior
00:11:07population, so unfortunately that must fall apart and
00:11:11we must disappoint some, and I have always liked to be guided by facts
00:11:14and evidence, if we go back to the process of inheriting
00:11:18the transmission of genetic material between people, we see that it is quite
00:11:22complicated, I like to say genetics is there to complicate
00:11:25things for you, genetics is there to complicate everything, now I would like,
00:11:28well, to complicate the story a bit with this next question which I hope
00:11:32will also break down some myths imposed on us primarily
00:11:35by patriarchy, you know how they say here, for example
00:11:39when you are pregnant for the second time and you are carrying a girl, then they say, oh never
00:11:43mind, third time's the charm, so it's a big deal and
00:11:47a big celebration is still held here if a son is
00:11:50born, because there is this belief that a son
00:11:53continues the lineage. I recently saw a piece of information
00:11:57that actually puts things
00:12:00differently, and then I contacted you, Anela, and asked if there was
00:12:03a scientific basis for it,
00:12:07so who actually continues the lineage, a son or a daughter, that
00:12:11will now send many families into a trance,
00:12:14to dismantle that patriarchy, that is,
00:12:18it's more of a social belief, again I say it has nothing to do with science, because
00:12:22Ivana, when we talk about the process of inheritance, the creation
00:12:26of a new individual, both mother and father
00:12:29participate equally, meaning material is exchanged, so half
00:12:33of the genetic material is given by the mother, half by the father, so if we look
00:12:36at the genetic profile of an individual, it's half
00:12:40mother's material, half father's, we cannot say who continues the lineage
00:12:44as a lineage, because the material is equally there. Now there are differences
00:12:47in what the mother transmits and what the father gives, that's where we mostly
00:12:51heard about mitochondrial DNA. Mitochondria are,
00:12:53let's say, DNA is otherwise located in the nucleus,
00:12:57that is, in the nucleus of our cells, but
00:13:00there are other organelles, that is, mitochondria, which are the main
00:13:03producers of, let's say, energy
00:13:06for our cells, that is, in the organism, that mitochondrial DNA
00:13:10is present in both boys and girls, but it is exclusively
00:13:13inherited from the mother's lineage, meaning the mother will transmit it to
00:13:16both boys and girls, but that girl will transmit that mother's
00:13:20mitochondrial DNA, then the question arises, who then actually
00:13:23continues that lineage, is it the son, is it the girl,
00:13:27then regarding this question, we can say, it's the girl, that it's
00:13:31not, let's say, a male lineage, boys continue the lineage, then we
00:13:34go back to complicate the story, we go back to the Y
00:13:37chromosome which the father, the father is the one who, or
00:13:41that sperm determines whether it will be a boy
00:13:45or a girl, that is, whether it will be a Y chromosome or an X chromosome,
00:13:49so when the father gives a Y chromosome, that Y chromosome remains
00:13:52with the boy, because XY is male.
00:13:55sex and XX is female sex, so we are a bit
00:13:58contradictory here, meaning we have girls who only transmit mitochondrial
00:14:02DNA and are indeed, in quotation marks, more special in transmitting that part
00:14:06of information, there are about 36, between
00:14:0936 and 40 genes that differ from boys, and
00:14:13boys are those who have a Y chromosome and girls do not, so it's
00:14:16very complicated, a difficult answer, but what is
00:14:20certain is that it's more a matter of social norms
00:14:23than actual genetics." "Precisely, for centuries women even
00:14:27in these areas, in certain parts of the Balkans, perhaps
00:14:31even today, felt guilty if they didn't give birth to a son,
00:14:34an heir, and yet it is scientifically
00:14:38proven that the father is the one who determines the sex
00:14:41of the child, so I mean that's it, it's simple, because we have an egg cell,
00:14:44we have a sperm, the egg cell carries XX material, the father
00:14:48is the one who will determine whether to transmit his X or his Y,
00:14:52yes, but this is also very interesting now..." what was
00:14:56somehow not talked about before, so
00:14:59you say it's still a question,
00:15:01but perhaps we could say if we looked at it proportionally, so
00:15:05who continues the lineage, a boy or a girl, that is, a son or a daughter, to
00:15:09a greater extent it is done by the daughter or the girl,
00:15:12we can say that, perhaps it would be put that way, but
00:15:16again, scientifically we have to be very careful precisely because of that way of transmitting
00:15:20information, inheritance, but yes, girls have that, let's
00:15:23say, extra. excess mitochondrial
00:15:26DNA that carries a certain number of genes that is more specific than in
00:15:30boys, that is indeed true, yes, that actually certain information
00:15:34appeared on the internet now, various
00:15:37theories and photographs circulate
00:15:40on social networks and that's what I sent you, it's actually
00:15:44the claim that your lineage is continued by your daughter, not your son, people still claim
00:15:48the opposite, but the unbroken genetic thread actually
00:15:51extends through the female line, that's
00:15:54precisely that mitochondrial DNA, because it's constantly, is this correct
00:15:57sentence,
00:15:59we played with words a bit in the sense that it should be
00:16:03adequate for social media to attract attention, but the truth is somewhere in
00:16:07the middle. of the way, somewhere on, I always have to be very
00:16:10careful, we definitely have that mitochondrial DNA that comes from
00:16:13the mother's side, only girls have that, but we have to be careful because
00:16:17of other material, and as I said, genetics is there to complicate everything a bit, it's
00:16:21not that simple, but mitochondrial girls, yes, it's
00:16:24only transmitted through that lineage, what genetically mm does a child
00:16:28inherit from the mother and what from the father? I think I'm here, it seems
00:16:32to me, to disrupt all those topics,
00:16:34we often also have on
00:16:37social networks and here I am very careful and I see that we are going in
00:16:41the direction that genetic and genetic information
00:16:43is used
00:16:45inadequately, that is, we create these hooks to attract
00:16:49attention, so we have that physical predispositions are inherited
00:16:52from the father, intellect is inherited from the mother, these are some, let's say,
00:16:56main sentences that we encounter, but again we go back to
00:16:59the beginning of my sentence that in the creation of a new being, both mother
00:17:03and father participate equally, half of the material is transmitted,
00:17:07but if we follow what
00:17:10is on the Y chromosome which only boys have, there are some
00:17:14traits, predispositions, let's say diseases that are only characteristic for
00:17:18the Y chromosome, that is, for the male sex and also for the X
00:17:21chromosome, that is, those two X's plus mitochondrial DNA which is characteristic
00:17:25only for the female sex, but we can only say mother will give us that
00:17:28intellect, you can see you're smart like your mother, or tall
00:17:31like your father, that's it, the creation of traits is
00:17:35a very complex process at the genetic
00:17:38level. "And also many external factors influence the manifestation
00:17:42of the same, yes, so we don't have clear answers there,
00:17:46after all, in real life we can see that sometimes a child physically
00:17:50resembles the mother, sometimes resembles the father, similarly when we talk
00:17:54about those intellectual
00:17:56traits, that is, I don't know, after all, emotional
00:18:00intelligence, sometimes the mother
00:18:03plays a greater role, sometimes we talk about those dominant genes, so we talk more about
00:18:07it. of recessive dominance where it will be more
00:18:10expressed in which trait it will be expressed and what is, for example,
00:18:13specific is when a child is young and then, oh today
00:18:18dad, that phenomenon is because actually we are
00:18:22working on the strength of the expression of that
00:18:25dominance of genes and external factors influence that, that is, that epigenetics that
00:18:29will actually form morphological and physiological traits
00:18:33in a child until adulthood, that's why I say
00:18:37I always talk to my patients and when I explain genetics, I try
00:18:40to simplify it, but genetics is indeed a science that is quite
00:18:44complex and always has a thousand shades of gray, I can never give
00:18:47a concrete answer, that is how it is because inheritance processes are
00:18:51very complex, there are always some exceptions, even though
00:18:55there are rules, yes, after all, there are a thousand nuances when we talk
00:18:58about that character, about everything inherited, very often some
00:19:02see the mother in the child, others see the father, and actually everything
00:19:06depends on who noticed some specifics that
00:19:09they had in their eyes, after all, because we are also
00:19:12very often divided, so we have
00:19:16relatives or friends who come and say, "He's just like his mom," and then others
00:19:20say, "How can he be just like his mom, look, he's just like his dad?" So
00:19:23well, it somehow depends on who is looking at that child, so there are still a lot
00:19:26of those social norms,
00:19:29yes, my colleague whispered to me, it depends on whether it's the mother-in-law or the father-in-law,
00:19:32you're saying what I think,
00:19:36yes, and is there anything else in genetics that could surprise people when it comes to
00:19:39inheritance through the male and female line? Well,
00:19:43I think there are many traits,
00:19:47or even diseases that are, for example,
00:19:50inherited only from the mother's side, that is, from the mitochondrial side,
00:19:53and usually, as I said, that mitochondrial
00:19:56is much more neurological now, because
00:20:00the mitochondrion is an organelle that is responsible for energy production, now
00:20:04imagine all the traits, I say, physiological, for which a certain
00:20:07amount of energy is needed to start, imagine that your organism is a serious
00:20:11engine that needs, well, energy, so a very large
00:20:15number of damages to the brain, to the central nervous
00:20:18system, eyes have actually occurred, these are
00:20:21rare diseases, but they are exclusively characteristic for mitochondrial DNA
00:20:25damage to mitochondrial DNA, I told you at the beginning, that is somewhere
00:20:29described 36 to 40 genes for, let's
00:20:33say, ophthalmological diseases that are very characteristic and with which we
00:20:36are now faced. that it is much harder to treat
00:20:40than, let's say, diseases that occurred in some other type of DNA,
00:20:43that is, not that mitochondrial DNA, that is characteristic,
00:20:47also diseases such as Duchenne muscular dystrophy. terrible disease,
00:20:51boys get sick, but mothers transmit,
00:20:54that is, that X, because boys are X, Y, that one
00:20:57defective X that the mother transmitted is completely sufficient due to the form
00:21:01of inheritance, dominant inheritance to be expressed, in
00:21:04girls the situation is a bit different because we have an XX
00:21:08set that makes us healthy carriers of
00:21:11Duchenne muscular dystrophy while boys are those who get sick, well, if I can
00:21:15use the opportunity to say that we have in Bosnia and Herzegovina. a number of patients
00:21:19with Duchenne muscular dystrophy, it is a very progressive, severe disease,
00:21:22genetically, pardon, caused disease, that we still do not have
00:21:26a drug available on the list for our children, it is a very difficult
00:21:29disease which, the sooner it starts to be treated, the symptoms
00:21:33of complete muscle system deterioration
00:21:37will at least be alleviated, not to mention
00:21:40some aggressive types that even lead, I think,
00:21:44unfortunately, to a worse
00:21:45outcome.
00:21:58Stay with us for the continuation of the news, don't miss this story:
00:22:01Dženis, David, Džena, Lejla,
00:22:04Esma, Adem, Dženis and Benjamin.
00:22:20The reason I resigned is known to you and
00:22:23the public.
00:22:26One dead, no one guilty, the people remember
00:22:29the system. Quick reaction of fire
00:22:32units resulted in users being quickly
00:22:36evacuated.
00:22:45You can take everything from me, but I will not give up my dignity.
00:22:51"This nation can no longer
00:22:53suffer,
00:23:02they have their comfortable chairs,
00:23:06which means they have
00:23:07humiliated us,
00:23:12dear viewers, good evening, welcome to the news, the news
00:23:15of the day.
00:23:21"Grab with your teeth and hands, with everything
00:23:25you can, just to save your own life, not just your own, but your
00:23:28children's, tonight live in Izmir and New
00:23:31York, this place here is the worst,
00:23:35let's go now to the Polish border, only from
00:23:3812 at night until 7 in the morning,
00:23:4025,000 people entered, our team
00:23:44also followed in Ankara, we are now connecting live with our colleague Esmir Milović, there were
00:23:48many conflicts between. Vera, there were many arguments. Gathered
00:23:52citizens in Sarajevo say that violence must
00:23:55stop.
00:23:59I never found that peace
00:24:01and
00:24:05it will exist here as long as it exists, and when there is a united Bosnia,
00:24:09which I will live to see. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, everything is changeable, only
00:24:13the crisis is eternal. Shame on you.
00:24:16What's controversial? That someone here now brings a bacillus.
00:24:20are the miners of the Zenica Brown Coal Mine in the
00:24:23Raspotočje pit to take responsibility here, that's
00:24:27the three of you.
00:24:30Our
00:24:32country,
00:24:36well
00:24:38known.
00:24:42An honest man, a decent man, a wonderful
00:24:45man.
00:24:53Love each other, people, be human, you see it's
00:24:56possible.
00:25:02Bosnia and Herzegovina leaves a strong impression on everyone who visits it.
00:25:19I say. This is paradise, dear viewers,
00:25:22welcome to a new day, you are watching today
00:25:24live,
00:25:33welcome to
00:25:35eggs,
00:25:39this morning we are in
00:25:40Bihać,
00:25:46good morning this Sunday morning to our'.
00:25:50in Bosnia and Herzegovina and Serbia and Croatia. Good
00:25:54morning from Mostar and just
00:25:57look at this beautiful sight behind
00:25:59me.
00:26:02is being saved, on the festival street and tonight,
00:26:32the...
00:30:20We welcome the audience, we have fairly good size audience today, uh, I want to
00:30:24remind everyone that uh, the rules of this committee are very clear, we have
00:30:28zero tolerance for any interruptions or any attempt
00:30:31to uh communicate with anyone here at the dias or
00:30:35with the witnesses, and as a result of that, anyone who attempts to do so will be
00:30:39subject to the usual things we do here, which is removal and
00:30:43arrest, so thank you all for coming and we enjoy
00:30:46having people here to watch the business of the united
00:30:50states
00:30:52senate committee, so with that,
00:30:55I want to talk, I'm going to start with you, Mr.
00:30:59Johnson.