Bosnia and Herzegovina: N1 Bosnia and Herzegovina

20261004 06:00 UTC · 00:30:59 · 527 transcript segments · GDELT Visual Explorer · plain-text transcript · Event Map

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Transcript

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00:00:00digestive problems, if you have had your gallbladder
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00:01:52We will continue to talk about the problem with which we woke up this morning,
00:01:56we don't have water at the tap, but we do. They say Sarajevo
00:02:00is once again facing
00:02:02at the airport, there is no reductions, citizens are without basic necessities
00:02:05for days, at the same time Bosnia and Herzegovina is often described as a country rich
00:02:09in water resources, so the logical question arises, where
00:02:13is the problem? Is it in climate change, in dilapidated
00:02:17infrastructure, in water losses or in the way we manage it in
00:02:20the 21st century? The question
00:02:23consuming water that is in of water should not be a question of political promises, but of basic
00:02:26system functioning, and why haven't we solved it yet, here...
00:02:30is a question, but many more questions for my guests this morning, Professor Dalibor
00:02:34Balian, who is a member of the Academy of Sciences of Bosnia and Herzegovina,
00:02:38a corresponding member of the Academy of Sciences and Arts of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Professor Muris Pahić
00:02:41from the Faculty of Natural Sciences and Mathematics of the University of Sarajevo, good morning to you and
00:02:45welcome to a new day, good morning to you and to the viewers, good morning, how
00:02:49else can we call it, I dare say, other than a
00:02:53civilizational disgrace that we in Bosnia and Herzegovina,
00:02:56or rather in Sarajevo mostly, don't have water for
00:02:59days. That is, we have reductions without any fixed order or schedule as to when
00:03:03the water will disappear and when the water will come, Mr. Spahić, what would you call
00:03:07this that we are experiencing these past few days, it is obvious that
00:03:11Beijing, where they successfully responded to we are most likely one of the capitals in the world
00:03:15that has problems with
00:03:18water, I have a feeling that even
00:03:21those who desalinate seawater have
00:03:25a more regular water supply than
00:03:28Sarajevo. "How is that possible? It's
00:03:32possible, everything is possible, you said several things at the beginning
00:03:36that are actually all integrated into
00:03:39one whole, that whole gives the result, no
00:03:42water, uh, water
00:03:46cannot be thought of as a commodity, it is
00:03:49the most important resource, because it needs to be nurtured, lived
00:03:53with and used rationally, have we
00:03:57been doing that for years, you, Professor Balijan, warned seven
00:04:00months ago, right here you said that we would come to
00:04:04a situation where we have no water, 10 years ago you, you mentioned before
00:04:08this connection that we would come to a situation where we have no water,
00:04:11here we are, so it is a long-term process, we are
00:04:15basically living for years and years on that ecological
00:04:18debt, we consume more than nature can give, in our
00:04:22case, how much nature can filter clean water, we have
00:04:26those underground waters, the wells will go even deeper, they
00:04:29need to be... dug even deeper, deeper, deeper, but we are consuming
00:04:33that water that has been forming for thousands of years,
00:04:36aha, we cannot restore it, and why can't
00:04:39we restore it? Well, because we have devastated nature, mhm, so that is
00:04:43connected and one thing is connected to another and if I devastate
00:04:46nature, I have no water, but I want water, water means
00:04:49life to me, we are not the only ones, look last year
00:04:53Ankara had a big problem, there was a drought in Ankara,
00:04:57the city has two million inhabitants, they are without
00:05:00water, they have exhausted their lakes that were
00:05:04designated for water, so now they are building a large
00:05:06Trans-Anatolian aqueduct from the
00:05:10Euphrates to bring water for hundreds
00:05:13of kilometers to Ankara, we must also think in that way, before
00:05:17the war it was considered to build a White River
00:05:20hydro-accumulation, so it's not a hydro-accumulation for generating
00:05:23electricity, but for supplying the city with water, that was abandoned,
00:05:27after the war a project was made for the Black River, it seems
00:05:30that was abandoned, there was also a big problem because the water
00:05:34needs to be brought through the Republika Srpska entity to Sarajevo, because
00:05:38any other water intake through the Federation would be too expensive.
00:05:42expensive, so we didn't do any of that,
00:05:45there is water, Professor Spahić, you say that, there is water, where is that
00:05:49water? Of course there is water here, I must say
00:05:52something that is very important, we cannot look
00:05:56for new water sources, unless we have reserves
00:06:00until we use what we have, what is in front of us, mhm,
00:06:03we cannot in this way, you know, in the Sarajevo
00:06:06field reduce hydrological zones,
00:06:10i.e. water protection zones so that... then we have an alibi to say,
00:06:14let's now bring for example the Black River, some other rivers
00:06:18that are located in the hinterland of the Sarajevo
00:06:20field. The Sarajevo field is a huge area
00:06:24and that huge area is covered
00:06:28with gravel and sand detritus in which
00:06:32water is located, that water is called groundwater,
00:06:36mhm, it is up to the water-retaining layer, that water-retaining layer, the first
00:06:39water-retaining layer up to 25 m deep. But
00:06:43there is also a second layer which is at 120 m deep,
00:06:46water-retaining, within that layer there is
00:06:50mixed water with gravel and sands and
00:06:54it maintains the upper groundwater level which depends on
00:06:57external factors, among other things, of course it depends on
00:07:01the inflow of water, what does that mean so that citizens understand why
00:07:05we don't have water, now we will tell you, we cannot
00:07:09answer that directly, we need to have a little
00:07:13introduction for that, besides the Sarajevo
00:07:16field, which has a huge amount of water, we have two karstic
00:07:20hinterlands, that is the karstic Bjelašnica,
00:07:23Igman, however, regarding
00:07:26Bjelašnica and Igman, as my colleague just said,
00:07:29we do not pay enough attention to
00:07:32zaštitimo te te krške vode, već smo dozvolili,
00:07:36for example, urban construction on
00:07:39Bjelašnica and we have converted the fourth
00:07:42water protection zone into a hydrological zone, it cannot be done
00:07:46that way, it's not, you know, drawing a line
00:07:50with a pencil, then erasing it, the same thing is happening
00:07:53with the reduction of this mm hydrological, or rather
00:07:57water protection zone, the first water protection zone and the second, and
00:08:00proclaiming this first to second
00:08:03and so on in order to actually free up space for
00:08:07something else, that is actually construction,
00:08:10that is housing construction. These are the problems, among other things,
00:08:14the initial ones, so that is one axis of problems, the second axis
00:08:18of problems is the most important, that is that in
00:08:21previous planning not enough attention was paid
00:08:24to how to strategically
00:08:27introduce the concept
00:08:30of constant care for
00:08:33waters in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and primarily in Sarajevo for
00:08:37the reason that if we take care of those waters, then
00:08:41we will have less loss of water, mhm, we will have
00:08:44more water in the water pipes and on the other
00:08:48hand we will conduct
00:08:51new research in the Sarajevo field to connect
00:08:54several wells with each other so that we
00:08:57have a large amount of water that is
00:09:00now available, however, the piezometric
00:09:04inflow of these waters is very low, it is low because
00:09:07the Sarajevo field has not been sufficiently connected
00:09:10to get more water. And just one more
00:09:14fact, imagine that a loss of
00:09:1772.8% of the water that Sarajevo
00:09:20receives, if it had remained in the
00:09:23Sarajevo field, that would be a huge reserve of water
00:09:27that is actually being preserved, we would not have these
00:09:30restrictions, we would not have these reductions, we would not have these problems
00:09:34with the water supply network and so on, the citizen asks a logical question
00:09:37very uh, could it
00:09:40have been foreseen, professor, that this would happen? You warned, and
00:09:44you know how those who are actually in the relevant ministries and
00:09:48who manage the companies that are responsible for the regular
00:09:52supply or irregular supply of water, they act
00:09:55as if they were surprised by what happened, is this something that should have
00:09:59caught us by surprise, or is this actually a trend that repeats itself and will repeat
00:10:02itself? That's like saying in January, snow
00:10:06surprised us, that's right, so the roads were covered,
00:10:09which means we have to be prepared for it.
00:10:13So, we know climate change is coming,
00:10:16we've known for 20, 30, 50 years that
00:10:19this is being talked about, we haven't done anything, we haven't taken
00:10:23any action.
00:10:25to suppress it, we know that climate change affects forests, so
00:10:29look at the fires we had this year,
00:10:33we lost just through those fires, those are huge
00:10:36amounts,
00:10:39so we are not doing anything, and we are massively re-purposing forest
00:10:42land for construction, we are building against food, that
00:10:46is a story in itself, this is
00:10:49what's happening, I have a small estate in Posavina, I have a well
00:10:53for water 9 m. That well has been used for 100
00:10:57years, an old well, for three
00:11:00years I have no water in that well, I draw
00:11:03water from 21 m deep, at 21
00:11:06m deep I have water, on one side is the Sava River, on the other side
00:11:10the Bosna River, the level from which I draw water is lower than
00:11:13those rivers, meaning there is less and less water,
00:11:17mhm, meaning we can talk about this and that, there is
00:11:21less and less water, what colleague Spahić says that 70% of
00:11:25water is lost, what do you think, how many illegal water connections do we have,
00:11:29mhm, the biggest problem is with those connections, I think that
00:11:32surely 20 to 25% of that
00:11:35lost water are illegal water connections,
00:11:38then there, then we have constant problems, when
00:11:42you say we have water at the source, but it gets lost before reaching
00:11:45the citizens, it gets lost, it gets lost somewhere we can say
00:11:48150% due to faulty installations that
00:11:52leak, that are dilapidated in parts of the city, and installations that have been
00:11:55underground for 100 years, never done, a large
00:11:58project for the city's water supply was last done
00:12:01around the beginning of the 70s, when
00:12:04Bačevo was expanded, when those large pumps were built, large
00:12:08metal pipes were laid, I live down in Ilidža, and I remember when it was
00:12:12being dug, I was little and could enter that pipe, mhm,
00:12:15the pipes are somewhere around a meter in
00:12:19diameter, since then practically nothing
00:12:22has been done, only some maintenance, but everything
00:12:25has its lifespan, it can't last forever, investments must be made again,
00:12:29we must modernize the city's water supply and then
00:12:33we can say that even these modest amounts of water that we have will
00:12:36be enough for now, that it is already starting to affect
00:12:40the health of citizens who complain about various
00:12:44viruses, stomach problems, due to
00:12:48the pipes or remains in the pipes and sometimes reaches them after
00:12:52these reductions stop, how seriously should all this
00:12:55actually be taken, because there is silence about
00:12:58it, and if you ask doctors, they will tell you that more
00:13:02and more patients are coming precisely because of water issues,
00:13:06they asked me a long time ago about that, this, I answered
00:13:09that, so I will repeat it, constant
00:13:12water reductions uh create a problem
00:13:16of vacuum, mhm, that vacuum, you know when there's no water, then
00:13:19then a vacuum is created then it sucks
00:13:23up
00:13:25everything that is inside that pipe, however
00:13:29there are many pipes that are cracked, now
00:13:32there is reversible suction
00:13:35and that water that has leaked out before that together with
00:13:38this here we now say
00:13:42sludge, but some other elements that are very
00:13:46toxic, it can be fecal water, in this
00:13:49way there is actually a mixing of one and the other, I
00:13:53recently saw someone... published that his glass
00:13:57of water was full of mud, that is
00:13:59the problem that is happening, however, no one
00:14:03has declared themselves about it until now, you know, mhm,
00:14:06unfortunately, we don't even have a good service
00:14:09that deals with mm the epidemiological state
00:14:13of the water, for the simple reason that these waters are not only
00:14:16the waters in the Sarajevo field that are found, that are supplied,
00:14:20they are replenished by railway, you know what kind
00:14:23of railway this can be. during floods, but
00:14:27also those waters are supplied from
00:14:30Bosnia, and Bosnia at the source
00:14:33directly receives water from Bjelašnica,
00:14:37meaning there is a narrow hydrological connection,
00:14:40this through carbonates
00:14:44between Babin Dol, Veliko Polje on
00:14:47Igman, Babin Dol on Bjelašnica, Veliko
00:14:50Dol on Igman, the small
00:14:53what's its name, this. uh field that directly
00:14:57flows into Bosnia, meaning
00:15:00there is a close connection that has already
00:15:03been proven by coloring, now you can imagine that
00:15:06water, that is all the sewage from
00:15:10the Olympic Games and beyond has cracked, that it
00:15:13has actually collapsed in some
00:15:17places in several places, then the question arises, what waters
00:15:20come to the source of the Bosna, what are we drinking then? I remember when I
00:15:24took students... led them when I was an assistant in
00:15:27hydrology to the source of the Bosna, then we could
00:15:30drink this water, water
00:15:34from the spring, but now you have a sign there immediately. a board,
00:15:38water not for drinking, you know, and one more thing
00:15:40just now, when you were talking about this
00:15:43problem, we talk about a problem when it exists
00:15:47and we think no matter how it came about, this
00:15:50very quickly, as expected,
00:15:54as Professor Balijan said earlier,
00:15:58uh, we look at it as if it
00:16:01just happened and we will now with these
00:16:04broadcasts or other
00:16:07conversations solve this problem, this problem is not
00:16:11solved on the same day, at the same moment, this
00:16:15problem is not solved even in a year, nor in years, but it's
00:16:18not solved by rain, professor, because look, in recent days
00:16:22they say, we are waiting for rain, because the one that fell last
00:16:26Thursday, did not have enough capacity to solve all
00:16:29our problems, so it's like we don't have rain, what can rain actually do?
00:16:33We always look at the sky, when there are floods, we look...
00:16:37when it will stop, and when there are droughts then we look when it will start
00:16:41raining, we must not rely on it,
00:16:45but prevent these negative elements that can
00:16:48happen in the natural world.
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00:18:37The Ha9 team of the Vogošća Fire Department, handler Davorin Sekulić
00:18:41and search dog Đurđa represented Bosnia and Herzegovina at
00:18:45the World Cup of search dogs in
00:18:48a series of challenges designed according to real rescue
00:18:52operations. How does working with a dog that saves human lives look like,
00:18:56how much trust must exist between the dog handler and the dog, and what did
00:18:59one of the largest world competitions of rescue teams show?
00:19:03We talk about that next with Davorin Sekulić, and Đurđa
00:19:06has come to our... to visit us again, good morning and welcome, thank you for being with us this morning,
00:19:10good morning and thank you for inviting us, Đurđa has returned from Beijing,
00:19:13disciplined, much more disciplined than she was last
00:19:17time, it seems to me, I think she's just more tired, this
00:19:21time, but otherwise still mischievous as she
00:19:24was, well, I hope that she will remain
00:19:28as calm as she is now, she was good
00:19:31Đurđa was good anyway last time, how did it happen
00:19:35that you went to Beijing, well? Actually, the Vogošća
00:19:38Fire Department received an invitation to Beijing,
00:19:42we actually didn't even believe it when it arrived,
00:19:44I thought someone was joking with us, with colleagues
00:19:48from the Vogošća Fire Department, with other handlers, with
00:19:52the commander and everyone agreed, that
00:19:56is, they gave me and Đurđa this
00:19:59opportunity to go for the first time and that's
00:20:02how we actually went to Beijing
00:20:06after, let's say, many "especially because of the papers that had
00:20:09to be obtained, some
00:20:12tests that had to be done for entry into China, and
00:20:15which are not done in Bosnia and Herzegovina, so
00:20:19we managed to finish that, but in the end there was
00:20:22a problem with the airplanes, actually they wouldn't
00:20:26let Đurđa on the plane, not just Đurđa
00:20:29but many other dogs,
00:20:32in conversation with other
00:20:36handlers from other countries. They actually had similar
00:20:39problems, so we actually arrived at the world championship
00:20:42two and a half days late and had to
00:20:45join the whole process immediately.
00:20:49On the first day, we had three searches, which was
00:20:53very difficult after the journey, while most
00:20:56countries had, let's say, one search per
00:21:00day, yes, so right from the start you were not in
00:21:02the same position, so your starting position was not the same as
00:21:06other teams, and what results are you actually coming back with? Well, we are coming
00:21:10back with very good results, very good
00:21:13experiences first of all, m
00:21:17we didn't expect much... because we
00:21:20are, let's say, a young organization that started
00:21:24a little over two years ago to change something in Bosnia and
00:21:27Herzegovina, to actually work with search
00:21:30dogs at some, let's say, world
00:21:33level, we primarily went there to see what was happening
00:21:37and what it looked like, we didn't have, let's say, a
00:21:41result as a goal, but
00:21:44we actually wanted to show ourselves as well as possible
00:21:47so as not to embarrass ourselves or the country
00:21:50or the organization, and I think we
00:21:54did an excellent job considering the circumstances,
00:21:57that Đurđa was really
00:22:01good and up to the task, it was clear that she was very
00:22:04tired and that between these, let's say,
00:22:08short breaks, she was constantly sleeping and asking to
00:22:11rest, but she actually worked
00:22:14excellently, this was first of all a very significant
00:22:17experience for you, so there you met
00:22:21some of the best rescue teams in the world
00:22:24and what was most important for you in that exchange
00:22:28of experiences? Well, when we actually went there,
00:22:31we saw that these were handlers who were, let's say, as far as
00:22:34licenses are concerned, everything at the highest
00:22:38possible level, I mean mm these were, I don't know,
00:22:41some very large countries that invest
00:22:45continuously in rescue teams, dogs,
00:22:48I mean for decades. And actually we still can't
00:22:52compare ourselves to them and actually
00:22:56we only have one great desire to be, let's say,
00:22:59in that rank, actually it was
00:23:03a very great experience for us because
00:23:06the conditions were very realistic, so we
00:23:09first had a search, it was
00:23:12a simulation of a collapsed building, we didn't know how many people
00:23:16there were, how many people were being
00:23:20searched for and... and the judges told us
00:23:23immediately, this is a world level and know that it will be
00:23:27absolutely very difficult, we deliberately made
00:23:30it like this to see how
00:23:33dogs actually work, how much they can find, mm,
00:23:37actually for one search we have 20 minutes and after
00:23:40that it stops, now how much the dog managed to find in
00:23:4420 minutes, actually the dog and the handler, because they work
00:23:47as a team, after that we had this search in nature,
00:23:51it was a simulation that a landslide
00:23:55happened, we also didn't know how many victims
00:23:58there were and only at the end when it was over, we had of course
00:24:01a night search and a search in a kind of
00:24:04collapsed factory
00:24:07mm and after, I don't know, three days we finally
00:24:11found out, actually the judges told us
00:24:14how many victims there were and how many dogs
00:24:17found and actually when I saw those results, then I was very
00:24:21satisfied, at the beginning I must say that we
00:24:24came and immediately started the
00:24:27search process,
00:24:30somehow when other handlers were returning saying we found five, we found
00:24:33six, this, you know,
00:24:37our Đurđa found two, I was a bit disappointed,
00:24:40then at the briefing when it was for them as if
00:24:44there were only, for example, two people in the rubble,
00:24:47like that, so there were also
00:24:51some false mm
00:24:54mm traces,
00:24:57they set out food scents
00:25:00and human scents that were not actually
00:25:04there, cadaver scents, that is
00:25:07dead people, just to see if the dog would actually
00:25:11bark, that is mark a living
00:25:14person or if it would, and she did mark a living person both times,
00:25:18so she didn't fall for those false trails.
00:25:20"she didn't fall for these
00:25:23false trails, yes, she managed to
00:25:27find all of them she marked
00:25:30actually live people in some situations the guide was
00:25:34not allowed to enter the search zone, so how does that look, how much
00:25:38are you there, how much does communication with you
00:25:41mean to her, your proximity or some instructions that you give her or do you just let
00:25:45her into that search zone and simply there is communication
00:25:49it must - this must exist because the dog
00:25:52somehow expects from you which
00:25:56way you will send it and how does
00:25:59that communication actually look like, actually
00:26:02this? "The ruin was such that it was fenced off with tape.
00:26:06We were immediately told at the beginning
00:26:08that the dog could be released
00:26:12into the ruin. You as rescuers cannot
00:26:16go into the ruin because it is unsafe for you.
00:26:20M, actually, that is very difficult because we cannot
00:26:23see when the dog
00:26:27marks where it marks. For example, I had a case
00:26:31where... Djurdja marked, but I couldn't,
00:26:34since these are huge ruins, I couldn't see where
00:26:38she marked, and since I get that sticker, I mark
00:26:41where, I stuck it in front of Djurdja instead of
00:26:45behind, which is a mistake,
00:26:48but it is very, very, very important because
00:26:51with the dog, you also practice
00:26:55that directing, all of that means that on command
00:26:58by voice and hand, it can be sent from one part, from one segment,
00:27:02to another segment, that it can be recalled if
00:27:06there is danger and so on. What was the
00:27:09most challenging moment for you during the performance in Beijing? Well, actually, the
00:27:13most challenging moment for us was this journey that we had to
00:27:16make, because it was 28 hours, about 30
00:27:20hours, about 30 hours, it was even longer on the way back
00:27:24actually, because due to, let's say,
00:27:27problems with dog transport, because
00:27:31the dog needs to go to the cabin with us to the world
00:27:34competition because it is very stressful for the dog to go
00:27:38to, as they are down there in the cargo
00:27:40hold. M, we were denied
00:27:44by two airline agencies
00:27:48to fly with them, and then we had to drive to
00:27:50Budapest to travel, then by plane to
00:27:54Cairo, then 5 hours of waiting,
00:27:57then to Beijing, that is very exhausting for the dog,
00:28:01especially since... "For example, in Cairo,
00:28:05place for dogs to relieve themselves or anything like that,
00:28:08so that it is perhaps a little
00:28:12very stressful and all that, that the dog has to endure for 30 hours,
00:28:15this
00:28:17was there anyone from other
00:28:21rescue teams who traveled at least approximately that much? Yes, yes, yes,
00:28:24there were other
00:28:28ones, there were even from Argentina,
00:28:32for example, and they went via Paris, then
00:28:35mm, that's how it is,
00:28:39with the fact that, well, most airline agencies
00:28:42do not
00:28:44allow dogs to be transported
00:28:48in the cabin unless they are real service dogs,
00:28:52even though they are search dogs, so it is not easy
00:28:55to get to Beijing with a dog, and it was, it was
00:28:59certainly, how many days were you there, how long did all that last? "When did you
00:29:03return? M, we arrived, then
00:29:06we returned on Wednesday evening, so we were there for about, let's say, five
00:29:10full days, considering that
00:29:13we were late, we should have been there for a little over seven days.
00:29:17And what makes Djurdja special, what did you conclude
00:29:20and learn about Djurdja, after Beijing
00:29:23and what are her
00:29:27most important qualities that have come to light now? Well, I think
00:29:31it's perseverance. Actually,
00:29:34that she doesn't give up, that
00:29:37no matter how difficult it is, actually,
00:29:40and there, when we were looking, it was very hot, very, very
00:29:43high humidity, very hot, so that
00:29:47all of that, let's say, for her, was very, very difficult,
00:29:50she, despite all that fatigue and all that, was persistent and
00:29:54did not interrupt the search once, even though she had
00:29:58three searches in one day, so I can say
00:30:01perseverance and... "She was great on the plane, she was
00:30:04calm, even now here, so I absolutely had no
00:30:08problems, I thought, since it was our first time flying,
00:30:11that it would be a little, especially with many people,
00:30:15and she is cheerful by nature, likes to play, she was
00:30:18completely excellent.
00:30:21And how much did you learn during your stay there,
00:30:25that is, communication with other teams, that is, with other
00:30:28guides, at what level is it generally
00:30:31with us?" "What is the attitude of the state itself towards search
00:30:35dogs, guides, towards all these trainings that you
00:30:39have to go through and simply towards understanding
00:30:42the importance of having a sufficient number of search
00:30:46dogs in our country? Well, actually, I think we are still
00:30:49at some beginnings, especially, let's say, that
00:30:53attitude of the state
00:30:56and society itself towards search dogs.
Data courtesy of The GDELT Project (gdeltproject.org), from the Internet Archive TV News Archive. Film strip and transcript are GDELT's, rehosted here under their terms of use, which permit it with this citation.