Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:27Good evening, this is another Red Line, I am Marina. Tucan, about 20
00:00:31women are killed annually in each of the countries in the region, and another
00:00:3515 of them were subjected to attempted murder. In only 6%
00:00:38of cases, the perpetrator is unknown, yet murders are not
00:00:42prevented. Is femicide predictable? Is there a typical
00:00:45profile of an abusive murderer? Does the system recognize
00:00:48the risk to the victim, or is femicide a systemic failure?
00:00:52Will femicide become a separate criminal offense in Serbia and Republika
00:00:55Srpska, as it has been since 2024 in
00:00:58Croatia and last year in the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, or are amendments
00:01:02to the Family Violence Law sufficient? Why did the Croatian
00:01:05Parliament reject the formation of a parliamentary investigative commission for femicide? Would
00:01:09continuous joint action by the police, social
00:01:13work centers, and citizens reduce the number of women killed in the countries
00:01:16of the region, and what is the role of the media and publicly spoken words
00:01:20in preventing femicide? Tonight, Vesna Ljubičić, Commissioner for
00:01:23Gender Equality in the Republic of Croatia, Azra Husarić Omerović
00:01:27and women's. Bosnia and Herzegovina network, and Vanja
00:01:31Đurić, journalist, are speaking about femicide in the countries of the region on Red Line. Good evening, everyone.
00:01:33Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. The occasion is
00:01:37of course a sad one.
00:01:41and reminds us of The infamous number is increasing, one might say every month, unfortunately in the countries of the region. Another
00:01:45woman has been killed. The last femicide was recorded
00:01:48last weekend in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
00:01:51Uh, and what we could hear, actually,
00:01:55it was a fellow journalist. According to all parameters, it somehow
00:01:58seems that the murder could have been prevented, at least theoretically,
00:02:02according to institutions: a restraining order, violence reported, a
00:02:05history of violence exists with the perpetrator
00:02:08of violence against his mother and brother from 10 years ago, yet
00:02:12he had a permit for carrying weapons, he was a security guard, and so
00:02:16on, uh, well, Mrs. Husarić Omerović,
00:02:20what would you say, who failed here? For a week now, in the media
00:02:25that then the whole in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and in the region, we can
00:02:27read texts, watch reports
00:02:30about femicide. Who failed here? The system?
00:02:33How do you see this
00:02:38a large number of women, and situation? Somewhere it seems a little to me that I am repeating myself by saying that the system
00:02:42failed, but it did. The system failed in this last case of
00:02:45femicide in Bosnia and Herzegovina, in Sarajevo, where our colleague
00:02:49Elma, a fellow journalist, was killed. It failed
00:02:52in the analysis of the media, which is very important, and because it did not provide a response to all those calls for
00:02:55help that she made and which she used in accordance with
00:02:58the law. Last year, we really had amendments
00:03:02to the Criminal Code of the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina,
00:03:04the adoption of the Law on
00:03:08a restraining order in force the Protection of Women from Domestic Violence against Children, which was praised by
00:03:11civil society organizations and the media
00:03:14sector because these changes really bring
00:03:18more urgent protection measures and a better support system for women
00:03:21victims of violence, but also stricter penalties and greater mechanisms
00:03:25of protection and support for police officers. However,
00:03:28what we pointed out after the adoption of the law, which was
00:03:32sometime in August last year, is that the law will remain
00:03:36a dead letter on paper if institutions do not implement it in
00:03:39practice. That was actually the greatest fear
00:03:43of organizations that spoke about it, which were somehow involved
00:03:46in the adoption of the provisions of the law, and it has already been seen
00:03:50in several cases that the law actually failed because
00:03:54the participants of institutions who were supposed to
00:03:57apply it did not apply it. In the last case, as you mentioned at
00:04:01the beginning, mm the victim of the murder actually
00:04:04took all the steps that a victim can take, but the system did not
00:04:07respond. We have a multiple offender, or rather
00:04:11a perpetrator and recidivist in committing violence whom the system did not
00:04:14remove from the victim. In a way, again, as a society, we
00:04:17failed because we mm shifted the responsibility, the burden, to
00:04:21the victim, because we allowed the media, society,
00:04:25to again look for the culprit and the role of that
00:04:28violence in the victim. mm And that is why an informal
00:04:31group of activists and journalists issued a public
00:04:34reaction in an effort to prevent and warn that
00:04:38such mechanisms can prevent and incapacitate other
00:04:42victims of violence who are currently going through some form
00:04:45of violence from seeking help or doing anything, because as
00:04:49a society, we condemn the victims again. In a way,
00:04:53we absolve the system and say it's okay that you didn't do
00:04:56anything. Uh, the Women's Network of Bosnia and Herzegovina stated:
00:05:00"A restraining order without supervision does not protect women from femicide." Supervision in what
00:05:03sense, in what way, specifically?
00:05:05Uh
00:05:08the restraining order that was issued in this case did not yield
00:05:12results. For protection, he violated the restraining order
00:05:15and the police, or rather, police officers, did
00:05:18not issue him a penalty for that, or the competent court did not issue
00:05:22a penalty when it could have issued a detention order or an electronic
00:05:25ankle monitor, which was indeed praised last year
00:05:29when the law was passed and began to be implemented in
00:05:33the procedure, right? Mm, and which would somehow prevent him from
00:05:37approaching the victim because it would notify the nearest
00:05:40police station that he is violating that restraining order. No, the
00:05:43murder would not have happened, or rather, he would not have been able to commit any form
00:05:47of violence against that victim. The protection measures failed
00:05:50because all those mechanisms that could have made that protection
00:05:53measure result
00:05:57in protection for women were not fully implemented in practice. When it comes
00:06:01to Serbia, Vanja, the law
00:06:05still does not recognize in the Republic of Serbia
00:06:08femicide as a separate criminal offense in the criminal code. We have this
00:06:11law on... prevention of domestic violence, it is quite rigorous, and here we
00:06:15heard that those measures are quite strong,
00:06:18how to say, and that's why I asked the question in the introduction whether it is necessary for it to be
00:06:22recognized. We know it is, but let's explain, so we have this
00:06:26law on the prevention of domestic violence where institutions should
00:06:29react promptly, and the police, the prosecution, and
00:06:32so on, a restraining order is immediately included, isolating
00:06:36the victim, however, now it is
00:06:39the end, or rather the beginning of May, we have four victims of femicide already in
00:06:42Serbia, yes, we do not have femicide as a separate criminal
00:06:46offense, and what is interesting to me is that we actually don't even have any serious
00:06:50debate about it, it is only mentioned sporadically,
00:06:54and I would say that we have not yet reached the level
00:06:57where we actually hear truly valid arguments for and
00:07:01against. It is somehow always a topic when either a
00:07:04femicide occurs or when it is the day of remembrance for victims
00:07:07of intimate partner violence, which is otherwise coming up on May 18th, if
00:07:11I'm not mistaken, and that is a topic, and of course it
00:07:15is a question raised by organizations dealing
00:07:18with this problem, mainly autonomous women's centers, FemPlatz, and
00:07:21so on, and uh, I think that
00:07:25the main problem here is also us, the media, for not raising this
00:07:28issue in a way that we make it a topic. I have to
00:07:32thank you for dealing with this tonight, for discussing it, even though
00:07:36the reason is truly terrible, that's right, and now
00:07:39what, for example... what organizations dealing
00:07:42with this insist on is
00:07:46the formation of a body to monitor femicide, and I think that
00:07:49that would perhaps be a good step, that femicide watch, but we
00:07:53don't have any central register. We are already entering
00:07:57the middle of 2026, last
00:08:00year, for example, the strategy expired,
00:08:03then it was extended, and regardless
00:08:06of the fact that the law you
00:08:09mentioned actually provides for certain measures. And regardless
00:08:13of the fact that, for example, all those organizations cooperated and continue to cooperate, they work
00:08:17with prosecutors, social work centers, everyone
00:08:21who in some way participates in that chain of help and
00:08:24prevention, still, in the end, we come to the point where everything
00:08:28depends on a case-by-case basis, that is, it depends on how
00:08:31each of them was involved,
00:08:34how much they participated, to what extent they got involved, simply
00:08:38they did it by educating themselves, to what extent
00:08:41did, for example, the police, prosecutors, social
00:08:45work centers invest in being sensitive to
00:08:48these issues, to properly recognize, for example, if
00:08:52it happens that the risk assessment is not done
00:08:55well, then the measure that will be imposed on
00:08:59someone who has been reported for violence may not be adequate, and thus we
00:09:03come to the point that the victim is in greater danger,
00:09:07that there is a threat that in the end they may even be killed,
00:09:10that the Movement of Free Citizens. This was recently re-submitted to parliamentary procedure,
00:09:14this request for femicide to be in the criminal code as a separate
00:09:18criminal offense. Here you uh also said that there is no public
00:09:22debate, do you expect it to be on the agenda soon
00:09:25or not, what are your
00:09:28findings, so to speak, since you deal with this topic both from a
00:09:32journalistic perspective and as an activist?
00:09:35Yes, I am also a member of the group Journalists against Violence
00:09:38against Women, as is my colleague from Bosnia, or rather, the guest from Bosnia, and recently
00:09:42we had a joint meeting here in Belgrade, where we discussed
00:09:46how we, as journalists, and there were
00:09:49activists, there were women who work in social work centers,
00:09:52how we can all contribute to changing that picture
00:09:56both in the media and simply that work
00:10:00on the prevention of intimate partner violence and
00:10:03femicide. I would say simply knowing the current
00:10:07social circumstances in Serbia that this will not be a topic for us
00:10:10anytime soon, because we simply see that now the focus is on election laws,
00:10:14the so-called Mrdić's, or judicial laws, and that is
00:10:18simply the current climate in Serbia. This topic, despite
00:10:21the fact that, for example, there are parliamentary parties. Parties that
00:10:25will be the ones that will
00:10:28support and focus on this topic, we still somehow
00:10:32expect that to happen soon, because simply this spring
00:10:36session is also ending soon, and everything will go towards ending
00:10:40with these laws that are important to us because of some upcoming
00:10:43elections. Yes, uh, Mrs. Ljubičić, now let's get to it, I intentionally
00:10:47left Croatia as the last of these three
00:10:49countries, because Croatia is in the European Union where
00:10:52the law was changed in 2024,
00:10:56as a separate criminal offense, right, femicide was included
00:10:59in the criminal code. Now here we heard what Serbia
00:11:03insists on, uh, that special body that would monitor
00:11:07femicide, uh, in the Parliament there was a very heated
00:11:10debate, the Možemo! party demanded
00:11:14uh the establishment of a parliamentary investigative commission for
00:11:18femicide, that was rejected, right, the law exists,
00:11:21uh, and it was heated. Uh, in this
00:11:25way, how can I say, in this confrontation
00:11:28of those who want to and those who don't, what is your position, would
00:11:31this
00:11:33uh body be able to help prevent it? You
00:11:37presented the latest research, which is not at all, how to say, optimistic
00:11:41when it comes to Croatia, despite the fact that, uh, as I said,
00:11:45femicide has been included as a separate criminal offense.
00:11:48You have asked quite a few questions
00:11:51for starters.
00:11:55Well, in 2024, the Republic of Croatia
00:11:58introduced a special criminal offense which is not, however, called femicide,
00:12:02it is called severe murder of a female person, but what
00:12:06we achieved by introducing that
00:12:08criminal offense is that we managed to
00:12:11introduce into the glossary of the criminal code the definition of gender-based
00:12:15violence from the Istanbul Convention,
00:12:18in this way we actually described what kind
00:12:22of crime it is, what kind of criminal offense it is.
00:12:25That is, the murder of a female person that is conditioned by, that is
00:12:29a result of gender-based violence. Before that, we
00:12:32had murder of a person
00:12:36as an aggravating circumstance if it concerned a close
00:12:39person, if it was committed out of hatred, and so on,
00:12:42however, since 2016, 2017,
00:12:46there has been a lot of talk in the public
00:12:49and professional sphere about the murders of female
00:12:52persons, about femicide, and what that... actually means,
00:12:56in what way it affects
00:12:59exclusively
00:13:03in what way we, as a society, as institutions, can act
00:13:07to close that circle of violence and recognize all risks
00:13:11and risk factors, led to us including a special
00:13:14criminal offense in 2024. However,
00:13:17what happened to us in 2024,
00:13:21well, we have now already finished the first quarter of 2026.
00:13:25We have 11 initiated
00:13:29proceedings related to the criminal offense of
00:13:31femicide. Five judgments have been handed down, two
00:13:34of which are final, three are still not final.
00:13:37And we see that
00:13:40there is not enough of a
00:13:43gender-sensitive approach, gender
00:13:45sensitivity towards
00:13:48the perpetrators of such acts. Mhm.
00:13:51Generally, when we talk about gender-based violence and...
00:13:55the full extent of the violence
00:13:58that occurs, that is, we are talking about all forms of gender-based
00:14:01violence, whether it is sexual violence or
00:14:04other forms of violence,
00:14:08we see that we lack sufficient
00:14:10exchange of information, sufficient networking of all
00:14:14institutions, gender-sensitive
00:14:17approach, uh, frequent violations, as
00:14:21Mrs. Vanja said,
00:14:24and Azra from
00:14:26Tuzla, that is, violations of protective measures,
00:14:30violations of precautionary measures,
00:14:33which lead to situations when a
00:14:37harmful act occurs, that is,
00:14:41femicide. When we talk, therefore, what
00:14:44we are witnessing now is that we have an extremely
00:14:47good national framework, a well-established
00:14:51criminal-legal system, but there are always problems
00:14:55in the application and implementation of such legal
00:14:58regulation. Until the education
00:15:01of all those stakeholders who participate
00:15:05in the prosecution, from the prosecuting
00:15:07bodies to expert psychological assistance, and to
00:15:11judicial bodies who
00:15:14uh prosecute
00:15:17such cases. It's like, sorry to interrupt you, that regardless of
00:15:20the adoption of the law, the circumstances and context
00:15:24in which the crime occurs are actually very similar
00:15:28in the three countries, although here the law exists.
00:15:32The law exists, but always at the beginning of the announcement, you
00:15:35rightly mentioned that there are several
00:15:37factors besides that legal regulation: public awareness,
00:15:41social awareness, the role of the media,
00:15:44neo-conservative currents, messages from public figures,
00:15:48public personalities, politicians, female politicians who
00:15:51speak about this type of violence, gender-based violence.
00:15:55When we talk about the investigative commission that
00:15:58was proposed by the opposition, about which
00:16:00we recently had a thematic session and a heated
00:16:04parliamentary debate was held, our position
00:16:07is that all proposals that go towards
00:16:11resolving or improving
00:16:14the resolution of uh uh
00:16:18reducing gender-based violence, i.e., reducing the number
00:16:21of femicide cases, are welcome, however,
00:16:24if situations occur
00:16:27when a certain topic is used as a political
00:16:31weapon, it is not good. We believe
00:16:34that today human rights are...
00:16:38Uh, something that we as egalitarian ordered
00:16:42societies have taken on and committed to since
00:16:452000, when we
00:16:49included in our constitution the constitutional principle of gender equality,
00:16:53and a host of other fundamental values, is something
00:16:57that we constantly need to improve through
00:17:00judicial practice and through international European systems, and so on. This
00:17:04parliamentary investigative commission, yes.
00:17:07The commission that was proposed,
00:17:10well, I would mention
00:17:14that it would probably be about parallel systems, because
00:17:17we, as an institution, established a multidisciplinary body in
00:17:212017 that includes
00:17:24judges, criminal lawyers, and judges from
00:17:27the High Misdemeanor Court, the academic community, the Faculty of Law,
00:17:30the Ministry of Justice, the Ministry of Internal
00:17:34Affairs, the relevant Ministry of Social Affairs, civil
00:17:38society organizations that deal with sexual
00:17:41violence, so and other independent experts,
00:17:45where for the last nine years
00:17:48we have been analyzing all cases of femicide that have occurred
00:17:52and through our report, we explain
00:17:55and analyze on about twenty
00:17:58pages what failures occurred
00:18:02in each of these cases. So you think that...
00:18:05actually something similar already exists, so there's no need to duplicate it
00:18:09in some way, if I understood correctly, but well, uh,
00:18:12let's leave that part for now, let's actually
00:18:16look at in the second part of the show we will deal a little
00:18:20with data, and you have the latest uh uh data
00:18:23from 2024, uh, Vanja also participated
00:18:29how actually in the media
00:18:33uh sector, forms of uh and cases
00:18:36of femicide are recorded. But let's go back to why we started this show,
00:18:40this latest incident in Bosnia and Herzegovina and Sarajevo. So, reported violence,
00:18:45on paper, a record of violent behavior towards the closest family
00:18:49members, yet a permit for a weapon, the possibility for him to
00:18:52kill his ex-wife in front of their minor child. In the Federation of Bosnia
00:18:56and Herzegovina, femicide is recognized as a separate criminal offense, there is
00:18:59a procedure for dealing with penalties for perpetrators. The crime still
00:19:03happened, who failed? Will anyone other than the killer be held accountable?
00:19:07How was the victim of violence treated in the media, how sensitive are we as a society
00:19:10to femicide, do we actually know what it means? Many
00:19:14more questions, as every time femicide happens. In this region
00:19:18more frequently, even three times more than in the European
00:19:21Union. In the Sarajevo neighborhood of Dobrinja where Elma
00:19:24unsuccessfully tried to find her peace in life, a new beginning,
00:19:28today shock and silence. Horror.
00:19:32There is no more protection here anymore. No, there is no
00:19:36state, first of all.
00:19:38This is impossible, what is happening, we are not
00:19:41safe on the street, at home, or anywhere,
00:19:45not for our children or for ourselves, I was really surprised yesterday when I
00:19:49heard it. I'm so sorry, and
00:19:52you see our situation,
00:19:54they can't protect a woman, the woman
00:19:57even reported him, well, from what
00:20:01I read, he had a restraining
00:20:05order and everything, but... it means
00:20:07nothing. Terrible. So, the key question
00:20:11that is now being asked is, how could someone
00:20:14after two reports for a restraining
00:20:17order against the victim, after a divorce
00:20:21situation which is itself a risk factor, after
00:20:24the appearance of a man who works, so in an agency that deals
00:20:28with security, has access to weapons, has access
00:20:32to tracking mechanisms, simply has
00:20:34a different insight into the victim's
00:20:38situation, how could someone allow him to simply get away with
00:20:41a paper measure? The protective measure again did not protect
00:20:45the victim. Last year, amendments to the law on
00:20:48protection against violence against women were triumphantly announced,
00:20:52which were then adopted in the Parliament of the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
00:20:55It was emphasized that from now on, perpetrators will wear electronic ankle monitors
00:20:59when restraining orders are issued against them. In practice, this is still not happening.
00:21:03What is the concrete problem with the MUPs, as far as
00:21:06we know, is that they are absolutely not
00:21:09uh in line with the law, because on the day the law came
00:21:12into force, they should have had equipment, they should have had mechanisms,
00:21:16they should have had absolutely everything or in a short time... which
00:21:20the law would have allowed them to provide all that. Since
00:21:23that didn't happen, we essentially have another gap in
00:21:27practice compared to what is written on paper.
00:21:30Experts explain that most killers had previously been reported
00:21:34for domestic violence, which further highlights the importance
00:21:37of timely reaction. It is obvious that the pattern repeats
00:21:41due to the slowness of the system. According to the law, police forces, prosecutors' offices, courts,
00:21:44guardianship bodies, health and educational institutions, and agencies for
00:21:48free legal aid are obliged to provide assistance
00:21:51and support to victims of violence. And what have the security agencies done?
00:21:55He says they can't do anything until it happens, meaning now that she's been killed, now they can measure something, right?
00:21:59This measures something, how many entrances there were, the hallway, and so on.
00:22:03They were stuck in Dobrinja yesterday measuring something. What are you measuring now?
00:22:05What are you measuring now? Get
00:22:09those people out, every neighborhood has one potential killer,
00:22:13right? He walks around and says, "I don't know what to do with him."
00:22:16You don't know what to do with him? Tragedies could be prevented
00:22:20if courts were much more agile in ordering
00:22:23detention. The absence of this in this case proved
00:22:26fatal. The Deputy Minister for Human Rights, Duška Jurišić, emphasizes that
00:22:30the MUP and the Prosecutor's Office are obliged to explain why detention was not requested,
00:22:33because, according to certain information, Elma had reported
00:22:37violations of the restraining order. These are measures prescribed
00:22:40by the new Law on Protection against Domestic Violence
00:22:43and Violence against Women in the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, including
00:22:47a penalty of up to three years in prison in case of violation
00:22:51of measures prohibiting approaching the victim. If there were
00:22:54systemic failures, individuals must
00:22:57be held accountable. In reality, it has once again been shown that psychological
00:23:01violence is just one step before femicide. At the same time, the electronic
00:23:05ankle monitor provided by law is practically blocked in the labyrinths
00:23:08of slow bureaucracy, between the federal and cantonal levels.
00:23:12Horrific statistics on murders do not alarm them. If everything
00:23:16had been implemented so far, Elma would have received a timely warning to hide.
00:23:20And the nearest police would have received an alarm to go to the location. Instead of such
00:23:24a preventive reaction, another child was left without
00:23:27a mother. Azur Delić,
00:23:29N1.
00:23:31Uh, Mrs. Merović, what will be the uh,
00:23:34procedure now? Of course, you cannot condemn the criminal, of course,
00:23:38but you are dealing with this topic. What kind of pressure can
00:23:42follow now, uh, do you really think that any
00:23:45of these institutions and representatives of institutions will also
00:23:48be held accountable, as I asked the question in
00:23:52the announcement of this report? We saw that there were
00:23:55systemic failures, bureaucracy where this monitoring
00:23:58did not come to life, and so on, we heard everything in the report, I won't
00:24:01repeat it. And what can anyone who is watching and listening
00:24:05expect if they are in some potential
00:24:08risk from an abuser who is somewhere near
00:24:12them? Yes, I believe that the
00:24:15perpetrator, or in this case the killer, will be judged
00:24:19by the strictest laws, by the amendment to the criminal code for aggravated
00:24:22murder, gender-based aggravated murder. In this way, a higher
00:24:26penalty will be imposed than was previously possible. However, we must talk
00:24:30about other aspects of responsibility, of course, of members
00:24:34of the system who might have been able to prevent this murder.
00:24:37which also includes the mentioned protection measures, if
00:24:41from the report of our colleague Azor Delić, in the case,
00:24:44specifically in this case of murder in Sarajevo, he
00:24:48had been issued. prohibition measures, he had a previous conviction for
00:24:52domestic violence, however, the problem that remained somewhat invisible, which colleagues
00:24:56from the detector published today, is that he
00:24:59provided the agency where he worked with a certificate of no criminal record,
00:25:03which is why he was actually able to access that weapon and was able to
00:25:06commit, in a way, in this case murder, so it's a systemic
00:25:10problem how he could get a certificate of no criminal record for a previous
00:25:13conviction for domestic violence, then how he violated
00:25:17the prohibition measures twice, he was not issued a detention measure. he was not given
00:25:21an electronic bracelet, or ankle monitor, and that case must be resolved
00:25:25completely. What I must remind you of, in
00:25:27the case of Inela Selimović, the murder of Inela Selimović
00:25:31from Kalesija, which was also processed under
00:25:34the new amendments to the criminal law, in that case there
00:25:37was, was a situation where she reported domestic violence,
00:25:41police officers came to the scene and she then said that
00:25:45she was withdrawing, withdrawing the report because he actually left that
00:25:48apartment when... "when she called the police,
00:25:52the police did not record that report and they are being tried today because they
00:25:56were obliged to act according to that help
00:25:59the victim to protect herself, so I must emphasize somewhere. I think there are
00:26:03good steps in the system, in this case
00:26:06of Inela Selimović, police officers must be held accountable
00:26:09for their inaction which they had, they were obliged to
00:26:13act, I hope that in this case, the murder of our colleague Elima in
00:26:16Sarajevo will also follow, because the system must take
00:26:20responsibility for missed steps and somewhere
00:26:24we all must put pressure on this case,
00:26:27because by putting pressure on the case of Inela Selimović
00:26:31in Kalesija, because... the media then exerted the greatest pressure on
00:26:34the responsibility of the police officers because it was revealed that she had reported
00:26:38through her family, actually and the procedure was initiated,
00:26:42pardon, the procedure was initiated, so in this case, the entire society has
00:26:45a responsibility to put pressure on institutions, because institutions have
00:26:49mechanisms to protect victims, they just need to start
00:26:52applying them, when it comes to Serbia, well Vanja, women for change in Novi
00:26:55Sad held, there were several such actions to
00:26:59raise awareness among citizens about the fourth femicide.
00:27:02since the beginning of the year in Serbia, uh, how much
00:27:06do you think such a type, we talked about concrete pressures now to do something,
00:27:10we see progress, our colleague said in Bosnia and Herzegovina
00:27:13that there are, uh, I don't know about
00:27:16similar cases for Serbia, I mean correct me, and of course if
00:27:20I'm wrong, uh, but here I say, activists
00:27:23are coming out, addressing citizens, demanding
00:27:27action,
00:27:29well, actually, it's very commendable that every time... women for change from
00:27:33Novi Sad, that activist group steps forward and
00:27:36simply points out that another femicide has occurred, they usually react that way, so
00:27:40after it happens
00:27:43how much of a problem it is that we simply have to talk about it publicly,
00:27:47however, the fact is that
00:27:51very few people always join them and those gatherings are not large, and
00:27:54it seems to me that we, regardless of the fact that we are, for example, very
00:27:58we have connections, I mean in these
00:28:01post-Yugoslav... societies, we have similar problems, similar
00:28:05contexts, there are still some, I would call them
00:28:08cultural differences, it seems to me that we here in Serbia
00:28:11are perhaps not so sensitive to the loss of
00:28:15a woman's life as is the case in Bosnia, or
00:28:18we can simply look at it in such a
00:28:21way that the system's failures are
00:28:24so clear
00:28:27society and media react to it, and for me, for example, in
00:28:31this case we saw from Sarajevo, the case of
00:28:33the murder of the journalist is somewhat
00:28:37commendable that we saw these people in the report who
00:28:41clearly see that it is a system failure and blame
00:28:44the system, somehow when the report started, I thought, oh,
00:28:48why did the colleague ask the neighbors for their opinion because that is precisely something we don't
00:28:52advise, it's not ethical, however, it's very good that he didn't ask them
00:28:55for their opinion about the perpetrator and who doesn't romanticize
00:28:59the whole story, but people clearly say that they don't feel
00:29:02safe in their homes. not on the street, mm-hmm, and what kind of state is that, so it's very good that they
00:29:06addressed, that they recognized the problem, it seems to me that we
00:29:09still, uh, that level of awareness we simply don't have and
00:29:13somehow we don't deal with it in that
00:29:16way, uh, and when I look at the media, again
00:29:20it's interesting to me that we have still made some progress there
00:29:24and I would also refer to one more thing that
00:29:27the guest from Croatia mentioned that
00:29:30it is simply, uh... "it's all of our concern, that there are more
00:29:34factors that influence
00:29:36that we have to look at it from some more angles,
00:29:40so I would say that, I would add, or rather, that we have to
00:29:43look at it as something that concerns all of us, so when we talk
00:29:47about partner violence, family violence, it is not a private matter, although
00:29:51it is very often seen that way here, from that we have not yet moved
00:29:55here in Serbia, we still see it that way, and it would be very important to
00:29:59understand that it is a public matter that concerns all of us, that when..." when
00:30:02we hear or when we see, when we know about a case, we should
00:30:05report it, yes, here for Bosnia and Herzegovina, it's quite clear where the failures
00:30:09were pointed out, these four female victims killed in
00:30:12Serbia, we don't have at least the data as far as I've seen
00:30:16uh that the cases were reported earlier, these are isolated
00:30:19cases, well I might be wrong, but according to what
00:30:22I've read, there's no such clear violation uh
00:30:26institutional, so in that sense we can't now
00:30:30determine who else should uh uh be
00:30:34held accountable, in any case it's not an alleviation or an extenuating circumstance
00:30:37uh uh it's not, it's not an extenuating circumstance, of course
00:30:41uh, it's just about that somehow, but that
00:30:44cultural problem you mentioned, that's right, so for us it's simply as
00:30:48if something very big, very terrible has to happen to
00:30:51shake us up so that we would react then, until then we don't recognize
00:30:55it as a problem at all, although there were cases in Serbia earlier
00:30:58it wasn't perhaps so clear where...