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00:00:00How did the Deliblato Sands
00:00:00grass, mhm. Travmatte these become the Deliblato wasteland? Those who tried
00:00:04to answer this question could be
00:00:07imprisoned for spreading panic. One should not
00:00:10use
00:00:14through political, through
00:00:17alleged political struggle
00:00:20untruths
00:00:21so that someone could reap certain,
00:00:25well, political points.
00:00:28"It's simply not true, it's false, it's ultimately
00:00:32shameful, it's hypocritical. Who
00:00:35lied on August 7th when this same minister
00:00:39stated that Serbia doesn't need help?
00:00:42This was a fire on August
00:00:465th, look,
00:00:48this was a fire on August
00:00:527th, he declares that things are under control,
00:00:56already then you should have activated..."
00:00:59applied, it's not enough to have it on "the EU civil protection mechanism, not claim that you have
00:01:01everything under control. Afterwards, you dealt with geopolitics,
00:01:05securing overflight permits for the Russian plane, while
00:01:08the fire lasted for a month.
00:01:12During that time, the political fire in the public service is extinguished
00:01:15by the commissioner, even the one for public information,
00:01:19rather for the protection of equality, who describes everything
00:01:23that succeeds in the burnt special nature reserve.
00:01:27It is obviously fertile ground for the spread of that
00:01:30fire, misinformation that breaks out there where
00:01:34all these you expect it and then a lot of people
00:01:37obviously fall for it not realizing that they might sometimes
00:01:41cause panic, that they might sometimes commit a criminal offense, does
00:01:44the same criterion for causing panic
00:01:48apply even when pro-regime media speculate that Albanians
00:01:51wanted to cause fires? This was
00:01:55an attempt to cause chaos in the south
00:01:58of central Serbia. Some most likely Albanian
00:02:02terrorists fired
00:02:05a so-called fireball, which is some device with a parachute
00:02:10preventing and that was fired to cause a fire somewhere, while the fire in Banat was raging,
00:02:14the government's propaganda machine was silent, and when the problem became
00:02:18so big that it couldn't be ignored, the prosecutor's office
00:02:22threatened proceedings to determine responsibility for
00:02:25spreading panic and not. Should we even talk about fires
00:02:28while the pre-election campaign is flaring up? They
00:02:32are panicking because it's Vučić's pre-election campaign and that's why
00:02:36they are threatening now, trying to silence people, especially
00:02:40on social media who keep posting endless examples
00:02:43of inadequate reactions, lack of equipment,
00:02:46machinery, and ultimately a complete lack of any
00:02:49planning, those firefighters died there, the poor
00:02:53ones died, the fire came up behind them, we see it in the videos.
00:02:56So I see who is panicking there. The people who put out the fire
00:03:00made superhuman efforts, says the leader of the Serbia Center party,
00:03:03but believes that the problem arose
00:03:07in the organization. I assume that it is a consequence
00:03:10of that SNS cadreing, primarily with insufficiently
00:03:14qualified people in leadership positions
00:03:18and because politics interferes with the profession, here
00:03:22it interfered again. Vučić says: I said not to call
00:03:26or when to call, who are you to say? "There should be automatic procedures
00:03:30that are applied in such a situation, in the meantime
00:03:33this is how the special nature reserve looks
00:03:37in a country that is, according to the president,
00:03:40a European superpower when it comes to
00:03:43equipping aircraft for firefighting. Miodrag
00:03:47Sovilj, N1
00:03:48Belgrade.
00:03:51Mr. Milanović, you are not involved in politics, but did politics nevertheless interfere in
00:03:55the profession, uh, and all of this that we have seen and that we were able
00:03:59to follow." during the past month or
00:04:02so,
00:04:04well, I believe it did, otherwise some
00:04:07information would have been available
00:04:10to everyone, uh, namely, the emergency sector
00:04:13on August 8th requested help from
00:04:17the Copernicus system for rapid
00:04:20mapping of burnt areas, probably because they
00:04:24saw that the area was quite large, mhm, they
00:04:27could have used that information to more easily... they could have brought that fire
00:04:31under control, so if
00:04:34on the 8th it was
00:04:38estimated that there was a problem
00:04:41with extinguishing this fire, then
00:04:45we later heard from the news, for example,
00:04:48the information lasted for several days that the burnt area was 3,500
00:04:52hectares, mhm, and through this system all citizens,
00:04:56if they wanted to, could have seen that the area was significantly larger.
00:05:01This then creates a distrust in other information
00:05:04you receive from the responsible party, mhm, and then we came to the point
00:05:08that allegedly on the 11th help was requested
00:05:12from Russia, if on the 11th there was information
00:05:16that such help was necessary, why, the question arises, why was it
00:05:19not requested from the European Union, i.e.,
00:05:23why was the civil protection
00:05:26mechanism of the European Union not activated, which
00:05:30was activated on August 20-something, when we
00:05:33officially requested help from the European Union and when
00:05:36four helicopters and some
00:05:40ground units for firefighting
00:05:44from Romania, Germany,
00:05:46and I think a group from Hungary arrived, uh,
00:05:49in any case, if it had arrived 10 days earlier or 12,
00:05:53we assume somewhat logically, we don't have to be great experts, that the situation
00:05:57on the ground would still have been
00:06:00different,
00:06:02well, we can now assume anything, okay to guess,
00:06:05but yes, it's very, very probable, on the other hand,
00:06:09it's easy to be a general after the battle, it should have been done then... "This,
00:06:13unfortunately, the situation is what it is, we
00:06:16now have the consequences of all that,
00:06:19mhm, that we are facing, it's a burnt area of
00:06:23over 12,000 hectares, that's what we
00:06:26call the net burnt area, which will certainly be much
00:06:29larger, uh, because
00:06:32within that area, uh, we have
00:06:36many of these green oases that are not currently seen
00:06:39as burnt areas, there was probably a ground
00:06:43fire or even if not,
00:06:46systems will be damaged, there will
00:06:50certainly be a loss of these forests and the damage will probably
00:06:54be around, I estimate, 15-16,000
00:06:57hectares, which is almost 50%
00:07:01of the surface of the Deliblato Sands - in the second part
00:07:04we will talk about rehabilitation and possible
00:07:08renaming of that area, which I mentioned in the introduction, just a quick
00:07:12question: before the commercials, you mentioned here, of course,
00:07:15that we sought help from the European Union, uh, helicopters
00:07:19arrived, you talked a lot about how in fact we
00:07:22are saving, and then it costs us all a lot that helicopters
00:07:26often are not used immediately
00:07:29when the fire is small, when it could perhaps be,
00:07:33if not completely extinguished, then somehow brought under control,
00:07:36uh, because that problem, of course, we have nowhere to get water
00:07:40from when it comes to Canadairs in Serbia. The configuration is different, but
00:07:44is that problem with the use of helicopters, which we of course know
00:07:47cost money, questionable? Well, I don't know what the situation
00:07:51was specifically regarding this fire in Deliblato
00:07:54Sands. I think I saw somewhere in the news that they very
00:07:58quickly launched at least 21 or I'm not sure,
00:08:02activated a helicopter, but generally the experience
00:08:05of some 12.5 or some other when the fire was
00:08:08I don't have concrete information, but I can say generally...
00:08:12that during last year and previous years
00:08:16helicopters are used very restrictively in firefighting,
00:08:20mhm, and they should be used more and not spared in those
00:08:23initial phases when a fire just breaks out, because then
00:08:27it's easiest to bring the fire under control, thereby
00:08:31saving resources, because one hour of helicopter
00:08:34flight costs I assume between five or
00:08:37ten thousand euros, those are not small resources if
00:08:40you are extinguishing a small fire, you
00:08:42will extinguish it for an hour or two hours, later
00:08:46we witnessed that throughout the day three to four
00:08:49helicopters flew uh
00:08:53for several, I think ten days or more, in any
00:08:57case, that's a topic for consideration, let's go briefly to commercials, we'll be back in the studio.
00:09:15The repair of damage after the hurricane will last weeks, if not months, to be home by
00:09:1910, not a second later, that is clearly a violation of human rights,
00:09:22which I am fishing for,
00:09:24oh, this is a historic moment, we
00:09:28are with you in every episode, maxv,
00:09:31already 20 years part of your program, Croatian
00:09:34Telekom,
00:09:38do you think it's easy to get into a Podravka product?
00:09:45You have to be much better than the competition,
00:09:49congratulations, you got the role, but we admit,
00:09:52the most important origin, because with
00:09:55us the main roles are given only to originals from Croatian
00:09:59fields. Domestic in the main role.
00:10:03Podravka.
00:10:20We are back in the N1 Television studio, the Red Line show, tonight we are discussing the fires in the region
00:10:24that raged during the summer, now they are calming down a bit in September,
00:10:27but unfortunately some are still active. We covered
00:10:30Croatia and Serbia in the first part of the show, Bosnia and Herzegovina somehow
00:10:34remained aside, but let's mention some data. According to the World
00:10:38Bank report from 2004, so two
00:10:41years before what we are witnessing now
00:10:44and the increased number of fires, uh, and according
00:10:48to data from the European Forest Fire Information System, fires in Bosnia and
00:10:52Herzegovina between 2006 and
00:10:552018 affected about
00:10:58320,000 hectares of land, or 7%
00:11:01of the country's territory. From 2019 to 2024, another
00:11:05310 thousand hectares were affected.
00:11:08Uh, of course, this land
00:11:11covers, forest land covers as much as 63%
00:11:15of the territory, and official data on the total damage in
00:11:18this country actually do not exist. Unofficial
00:11:22estimates speak of losses of several tens of millions
00:11:25of dollars. Mr. Kasalo, these are the data that I just presented
00:11:29uh according to some European
00:11:33data, they don't look promising at all,
00:11:36uh, with outdated equipment that we have already witnessed, about the planes we
00:11:40talked about, Republika Srpska has them, the Federation
00:11:43as well, but they are simply not intended for specialized
00:11:47firefighting, with of course that status
00:11:50of firefighters, for changes in the law for many
00:11:54years actually have not been put on the agenda, what is then
00:11:58the future of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and we see 63%
00:12:01of the territory under forests?
00:12:05That's right, you are right, exactly as you said, if
00:12:08these problems of firefighter status
00:12:11and financing from higher levels are not resolved soon,
00:12:15not just around 90% of it falls on
00:12:18local self-government, i.e., cities and
00:12:22municipalities, uh... the
00:12:25situation will not be good, because there are also
00:12:28volunteer fire departments that operate in the area of municipalities and cities, they play a big
00:12:32role in
00:12:35extinguishing forest and
00:12:37agricultural areas, and
00:12:41they have no compensation here, they volunteer just
00:12:44because they love people, nature and want
00:12:48to protect their own.
00:12:52We saw that much of it comes down to these volunteer
00:12:55fire departments. On social media, there was also
00:12:58the story of a 21-year-old girl, Lara Gvozden, who is
00:13:02mentioned as having participated as a minor with her father, so
00:13:05family traditions are at play when
00:13:09they choose this kind of humane calling,
00:13:13but it can't just be reduced to volunteer fire departments.
00:13:15That's
00:13:18right, Lara Gozen, she's a member
00:13:21of the Volunteer Fire Department, Svetana Lištani and...
00:13:25as a young girl she acted, I know her personally, but
00:13:28also once she became an adult, she actively
00:13:32participated in these bigger fires that occurred in
00:13:36Bosnian Krajina and now the one that was in the area
00:13:40of Drmalje, Poliše village, Lištani, Rujani,
00:13:43Čazlija, truly an exceptional person, not only
00:13:46her, but all members of one
00:13:50good association that operates in the city area,
00:13:53meaning the DVD. Doška and Svetana Lištani
00:13:56and I want to emphasize that a way must be found
00:14:00to financially help these parts
00:14:03as well to solve the problem of professional
00:14:07firefighters and improve their vehicle
00:14:10fleet, the premises in which they stand guard
00:14:13and reside, and there needs to be an emphasis on education,
00:14:17continuous training, and the like.
00:14:19Local self-governments alone cannot handle this, and
00:14:23new technologies must be implemented. You talk
00:14:27to colleagues from Croatia and Serbia about these new technologies, various
00:14:30warnings, and in Herzegovina, this is not
00:14:32the case. I don't know, not only regarding
00:14:36fires, but also other natural or other
00:14:38disasters, it's truly
00:14:41high time to take concrete
00:14:44measures, yes, this year I think
00:14:47provided enough warnings for Bosnia and
00:14:51Herzegovina to approach this prevention, although we also see - in
00:14:55European Union countries, well, it is still advocated that
00:14:58prevention is important, early
00:15:01detection, uh, I still wanted to ask just one more question
00:15:05related to the Deliblato Sands and actually to other
00:15:08areas that suffered fires. At one point, I mentioned
00:15:12that actually in the Serbian Parliament, while it was still burning
00:15:16in the Deliblato
00:15:19Sands, there were urgent amendments to the law that would
00:15:22allow the renaming of this land. For some other
00:15:26purposes, Mr. Milanović, did you follow
00:15:29that, can we really expect it, we saw
00:15:32President Vučić who denied it and said that as long as
00:15:36he is in any position, he will not allow the renaming
00:15:38of land in the Deliblato Sands,
00:15:41but is there now, as they say, where there's smoke, there's fire,
00:15:45unfortunately it's said that way, do you
00:15:48expect such
00:15:49changes?
00:15:52Well, I hope that this won't be implemented in practice,
00:15:56although, uh, such a change in the law was really not
00:16:00necessary at such a moment when we
00:16:03had the biggest fire ever recorded in
00:16:08Serbia, uh, so far as records are kept,
00:16:10so in some
00:16:13countries, like Greece and
00:16:17Spain,
00:16:20uh, the repurposing of land burnt in fires is not
00:16:23allowed, and that measure lasts
00:16:2630 or 50 years, something like
00:16:29that should perhaps be introduced here
00:16:33simply to dispel
00:16:35uh
00:16:37"the suspicion that someone wants to perhaps
00:16:41by burning forests create or
00:16:44open up space for some other activities, for some other
00:16:47uh jobs that would be performed there later, right? "Yes, the accusations are serious
00:16:51in any case, and now we won't talk
00:16:55a priori, but these are the facts we present, that that
00:16:58law, or rather the amendments to the law, were passed at that time in the Serbian
00:17:02Parliament, of course the opposition had its reasons for commenting
00:17:06on it in that way." But the expert public, in any case, was not even
00:17:10informed about it, so we'll see what happens next,
00:17:13Mr. Tucaković, when it comes to
00:17:16Croatia, uh, burnt areas, what about
00:17:20them? Well, first of all, I can
00:17:23thank everyone who helped in the first days, especially Miša, to help with
00:17:27the rehabilitation, to remove those vehicles, so all those communal
00:17:31companies, what about the burnt areas, of course,
00:17:34those areas need to be cleaned, so Croatian forests, so... all
00:17:37of them proceeded to remove fallen trees and so on, that is
00:17:41now positive what happened, so that all that is cleared, of course
00:17:45we need to restore, so the forests, so we cannot leave
00:17:49it to chance again to grow Aleppo pine so that it just
00:17:52sprouts and actually creates a new problem for us again in five years,
00:17:56uh, a new problem, a new cover that will again very
00:17:59quickly burn down, so we need to approach this really professionally
00:18:03and really, I would leave this to the experts, these are
00:18:06the foresters who will answer such questions, so
00:18:10what to do, we have time, we have experience now in
00:18:13all this, and let's try to solve it, so
00:18:17we should leave it to experts. So, that's when it comes to the forest and what
00:18:20will be planted and so on, but I didn't only ask you that, but I heard what is
00:18:24happening in Serbia, that simply uh, the land is being renamed for something
00:18:28else, that is, it is very easy, through legal solutions, so
00:18:32for burnt land, so that there is, I think we even have it resolved that it is impossible
00:18:35for the next 10 years to do anything there, that it can be
00:18:39resolved with different legal solutions and so
00:18:43on, and that also needs to be addressed, not for someone to burn it and then have construction
00:18:46land, which is senseless, it makes no sense, but simply
00:18:50nature needs to be protected from construction, from concreting, and all that
00:18:53is happening. We are at the end of the show, just briefly, you heard the association "Volim
00:18:57Omiš," they officially requested from six
00:19:00competent institutions to determine who made the decision
00:19:04not to use this warning system, which we already talked about.
00:19:07You heard that, yes, yes, yes, we received that inquiry, the response
00:19:11for that association is currently being prepared. Okay, we'll see what the result will be,
00:19:14literally briefly, the question we mentioned, so more
00:19:18prevention, less operations, how does that happen, here in Serbia,
00:19:22briefly just.
00:19:24Well, it is necessary to invest more in
00:19:28uh, controlling combustible material, meaning
00:19:31preventing the accumulation of combustible material. This can be solved
00:19:35in several ways, first of all. "My colleagues, foresters,
00:19:38must incorporate those measures that will reduce the risk of fire
00:19:42more into forest management plans,
00:19:45on one hand, on the other hand, we need to
00:19:49consider changing the legal regulations that would
00:19:52allow the use of so-called preventive
00:19:55burning outside the season, mhm, in order to reduce
00:19:58the accumulation of combustible material and reduce the probability
00:20:02of these large fires that can cause
00:20:05great damage, well, when it comes." Herzegovina, here in one
00:20:08sentence, the same question, so more
00:20:11prevention, less operations, how does that work in your case, just briefly?
00:20:15The same in the area, for example, for the city there is also
00:20:19a large forest area, we have
00:20:22frequent large forest fires on Mount Dinara
00:20:24and funds must be found
00:20:28for building fire roads,
00:20:30clearings, and also forest
00:20:34management companies operating there must have their regular personnel
00:20:38for early detection of fires, but
00:20:41also we have the awareness of the older
00:20:43population of these shepherds, because we have
00:20:47large, large fields of
00:20:50areas, so they use old methods
00:20:53of cleaning their fields, so that is the human factor that can also
00:20:57be influenced, that is, which is almost
00:21:0095%, if not more, is
00:21:02the factor that they are caused by human
00:21:06factor, we need to change the awareness and a different
00:21:08way of thinking about the harmfulness of burning agricultural land
00:21:12and in order
00:21:15to
00:21:18reduce fires. Uh, literally, uh, Mr.
00:21:22Tucaković, for the end, that's your sentence that I quoted multiple
00:21:25times, yes, that's my sentence, so more prevention, less
00:21:29operation, so investing in prevention, not just
00:21:32these roads, but also through legal solutions, more
00:21:35institutions, so the law on forests, the law on agricultural land,
00:21:39the law on fire protection, so several laws need to be harmonized
00:21:42and applied, but also
00:21:46controlled whether they are
00:21:49paper. Thank you very much for being guests on tonight's show, I think we
00:21:52tried to establish whether it is indeed possible to have more
00:21:56prevention, less operation, it seems that it's not that impossible, but that the
00:22:00human factor is important and that prevention could be controlled,
00:22:03or rather, implemented from kindergarten onwards
00:22:07through schools, so that people are educated, first children, then older people,
00:22:10on how to protect themselves from forest fires, which are, as we see,
00:22:14spreading across the region again this year, unfortunately. Thank you
00:22:18for being from N1...
00:22:20Stay tuned, see you next Friday at the same time. Good night.