Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00about Kosovo after the end of the war is some conspiracy, well, the West
00:00:03and all those Western judges have decided to cover up everything that happened
00:00:07to Serbs, that is option one, that is an option that I don't believe, but I am afraid that
00:00:11it is an option that I tell you will here in some cases become dominant, essentially what
00:00:15you are talking about now after the end of the war
00:00:18could eventually, if it is raised, I assume that this court
00:00:22will not close its doors now but will continue to work
00:00:26on, that is, prosecutors on investigations, that would be...
00:00:30a crime against humanity eventually, so yes, exactly, that's right, and both
00:00:33questions, so organ trafficking and ethnic cleansing
00:00:37of Serbs after the end of the war can be the subject of some future
00:00:40proceedings, we know that this court has not completed all its proceedings,
00:00:44so a month ago the prosecutor
00:00:47filed a new indictment about which we don't know what it deals with, it is
00:00:51still confidential, so
00:00:54it is awaiting confirmation by the duty judge for those previous
00:00:58questions, only when it is published, we will see what that new indictment
00:01:02deals with, but that indictment is not the last one most likely, so it is possible
00:01:06that some, some, some other proceedings will happen, as for organ
00:01:09trafficking, uh, the defense
00:01:13of Thaçi and the general narrative in Kosovo is exactly
00:01:16that, that because this case does not mention organ trafficking, it somehow
00:01:19discredits this whole court, that all this is
00:01:22false, because now the court did not deal with that
00:01:27that is, it seems to me to be raised to issue of organ trafficking in this case, what is clear is that... when
00:01:30the investigation was ongoing back in 2014, the previous prosecutor
00:01:33of the previous mechanism, before this court was established, said that they had
00:01:37indications that it happened, but in a very small number
00:01:41of cases, the word he used was a handful of cases, so up to five
00:01:44people whose organs were removed, you are now
00:01:47talking about what can be provided as evidence, that's right, exactly
00:01:51that, and at the same time evidence in some preliminary investigation, not
00:01:54evidence at trial where it is necessary to prove beyond a reasonable
00:01:58doubt, where it is not only necessary to prove
00:02:00that it happened, but that these four are responsible for it,
00:02:04so maybe you can prove that five people were killed for organ
00:02:07removal, but you cannot attribute
00:02:10that to Thaçi, I don't know if you understand me, so my, my
00:02:14view is that the reason why this case does not deal
00:02:17with it is simply because the prosecutor does not have enough evidence to go
00:02:21before the court to accuse these defendants, that is, the accused for
00:02:24those acts, whether what you just said, that there is not enough
00:02:28evidence can be applied... even though the indictment, if I'm not
00:02:32mistaken, stated a crime against humanity, that's right, to be
00:02:35applied to that as well, why was that,
00:02:39that qualification abandoned, so one question is the qualification of the crime, whether it is
00:02:43a crime against humanity or a war crime, the other is the question of the facts themselves,
00:02:47so the indictment did not cover at all in this specific case the
00:02:50issues of organ trafficking and ethnic cleansing of Serbs, simply that was not at all the subject
00:02:54of the case, whether that will happen in some next case, I don't know, what would
00:02:58really be good, is... journalists ask
00:03:01the prosecutor, what did you actually determine, what actually
00:03:04happened, since 2014, the prosecutor
00:03:08of the Kosovo Specialist Court has said nothing, so more
00:03:11prosecutors have changed, none of them has said
00:03:14anything about organ trafficking, tell us what you actually
00:03:17determined, so only that is one thing that is needed,
00:03:21crime against humanity is another story, so in this specific case
00:03:24the court found that crimes against humanity
00:03:27were not committed because ...one of their constitutive
00:03:31elements, that so-called attack, widespread attack on the civilian
00:03:35population, was not proven, the element of context as you said
00:03:39recently, that's right, ok, uh, is it important
00:03:42that fact, I don't know if it's important, but here I'm
00:03:46asking you, yes, at least it's interesting that all the prosecutors were
00:03:50Americans, that the presiding judge
00:03:53is an American, plus we had judges from Germany and France, and for
00:03:57that matter, we had Americans who testified in favor of Thaçi and Wesley Clark and
00:04:00this uh that fact is important in
00:04:04that if you are now some ethnic
00:04:07Albanian, that to you your greatest
00:04:10allies impose that
00:04:13court, that the people sitting in that court
00:04:16are not only top professionals, I mean, by chance I know two of these three
00:04:20judges who were in the trial chamber, I mean I can tell you, how would I say, that these are really
00:04:24serious people, these are not some people from the street, right, that these are
00:04:27moreover people from countries
00:04:30that are friendly countries to you, that they determine that those crimes
00:04:34happened, that would probably tell you, these people are
00:04:37impartial, objective, that's really true, but I'm afraid that's not how
00:04:41human consciousness works, 99% of Albanians in
00:04:44Kosovo will say, oh no, that didn't happen, meanwhile, the majority of victims, overall
00:04:48victims in this proceeding are Albanians, that's right, that's
00:04:52a paradox, so the paradox is that actually when you look at the crime base
00:04:55in this case, certainly when it comes to detained persons, of whom there are more
00:04:59than 300 tortured persons of whom there are 300, that
00:05:03their, that the majority of these victims were Albanians, but now you have
00:05:06a dominant narrative among Albanians in Kosovo that they will not believe in
00:05:10crimes against themselves, because they were committed by
00:05:13the KLA, and how do you explain that, how can
00:05:16that be explained, it's like now, is it a parallel
00:05:20that we in this, that the majority in this society
00:05:23do not believe that I don't know,
00:05:27uh Legija killed Đinđić or something like that, well, I'm afraid there is
00:05:31probably a significant number of people in this society who believe that, or rather, do not
00:05:34believe, but this is very easy to explain, so it is
00:05:37a matter of identity, mhm, at one point when you
00:05:40identify yourself... with one side in the conflict
00:05:44and consider it just and not just just, but
00:05:48absolutely just, the best army in the whole
00:05:51world, right, with the brightest possible
00:05:55goal, you refuse to assimilate any fact that
00:05:59contradicts that narrative, you do that even
00:06:02if you have no direct experience with those facts, so we can see
00:06:06these protests in Kosovo in The Hague, that you have young
00:06:09people, children, young men, meaning 20 years old, who
00:06:13jump on police cars, we have the funeral of Ratko
00:06:16Mladić, young men on the other side, exactly the same, so people who have no direct
00:06:19observation, have no idea what actually happened
00:06:22in Srebrenica, what happened in some camp in Kosovo, but
00:06:26they refuse to believe something that some court has established, just because it contradicts
00:06:29the core of their identity, so now I'm going to refer to one
00:06:33of your interviews from a few years ago on Al Jazeera when
00:06:37you said that the most dangerous thing, speaking about confronting
00:06:40the past in the region, is that the transmission
00:06:44of that narrative has taken place among
00:06:47young people, now we are actually facing new generations who
00:06:50have no direct experience, who support perhaps
00:06:54even more strongly, that's right, so what, and what, how do
00:06:57these countries and we and everyone
00:07:00else deal with that, well, very, very difficult, so the reason why it happens,
00:07:04why it happens, why someone at 20 years old who has no idea who
00:07:08Ratko Mladić actually was goes to his funeral, dresses
00:07:12up, wears his face on himself, paints graffiti about Ratko
00:07:16Mladić in the city, is that the education system in this country
00:07:20has been captured for decades by these
00:07:22nationalist elites, that the media
00:07:26in this country have been captured for decades by these nationalist
00:07:29elites, that there was not a single moment when that child was growing up that he was
00:07:33exposed to another point of view, and if you don't
00:07:36change that wider environment, that's not
00:07:40the case here, nor in Kosovo, in Croatia, in Bosnia, where we all have parallel
00:07:44realities, you cannot actually achieve some
00:07:47broader reasonable reconciliation, because in essence the narratives
00:07:51are similar everywhere
00:07:54or the same, that's right, so that the court works against the people
00:07:58and the state, that we are victims, everyone else is
00:08:01enemies, they think that too, so that's how it is in
00:08:04Croatia, that's how it is in Bosnia, that's how it is here, that's how it is in Kosovo, yes, now
00:08:08the question, alright, political elites bear a certain
00:08:11responsibility, a certain "largest part of responsibility, but what is
00:08:15happening with other actors both international and social
00:08:18and so on, international actors are here somewhat
00:08:21peripheral, so one thing is when you have a situation like
00:08:25Nazi Germany which four other
00:08:27countries occupy, then they impose what needs to be done
00:08:31and denazify a large part
00:08:35of the ruling elite in that country, that was difficult
00:08:38with the same narrative, if you look, for example, the Ministry
00:08:42of Foreign Affairs in Bonn was full of Nazis in West, when
00:08:45you look at law faculties in Germany after World War II, they were full
00:08:49of Nazis, Nuremberg was in oblivion for decades, so
00:08:52the Nuremberg trials did not transform German society, that came much, much
00:08:56later, I am afraid that with people like Vučić,
00:09:00Kurti and so on, you cannot create a more normal
00:09:03reality here, it's simply like that, now let's go back
00:09:07to the indictment at the end of our conversation,
00:09:10what happens now, we have... several
00:09:13stages until the final verdict, so we have that
00:09:17appeal, what else do we have, we have the Supreme Court of Kosovo, we have, so we have
00:09:21an appeal which is an appellate court, we have the supreme court, so these are
00:09:25all special chambers, when I say, given that it is a domestic
00:09:28court, then we have, that's right, so they replicated in
00:09:32The Hague the structure of the domestic Kosovo court,
00:09:35so you have special chambers, basic, appellate,
00:09:39supreme court and constitutional court, you actually have four instances in that
00:09:43one court, which means that a complete change can happen or not, it can, so what
00:09:46will happen now is that both
00:09:50the prosecutor and the defense will appeal, the prosecutor will appeal against the acquittal
00:09:54regarding crimes against humanity, this is primarily important for acts committed
00:09:57after the end of the armed conflict on June 20,
00:10:001999, so these acts are not at all the subject
00:10:04of the judgment, so the prosecutor will appeal against that, the defense will
00:10:08appeal against the conviction, primarily on the issue of joint criminal enterprise,
00:10:12they... cannot deny the facts that in that specific camp
00:10:15so many people were killed, they will focus on the guilt,
00:10:19that is, the existence of guilt of the specific
00:10:21convicted, then the second instance will come.
00:10:25"After it, a third instance, the Supreme Court, can come, especially if the second
00:10:28instance convicts them for crimes against humanity, then the Supreme Court
00:10:31deals with it, so if they are convicted for crimes against humanity on the
00:10:35appeal of the prosecution, they have the right to another appeal to the Supreme
00:10:39Court, if they are not convicted for that, if they are
00:10:43confirmed, so if they are acquitted or if the
00:10:46current decision is upheld, you have that extraordinary legal remedy like with
00:10:49us, a request for protection of legality, so that's what the Supreme
00:10:53Court will deal with, and it..." you still have the Constitutional Court that can determine whether
00:10:57the rights of the accused have been violated, for example the right to a fair trial, so here there is
00:11:01still a lot to be shuffled, this whole thing until we reach
00:11:05a final legally binding judgment yes, and let's at the very
00:11:08very end somehow go back to that
00:11:12context, I assume you followed
00:11:14uh that's your expertise after
00:11:17all, that you followed what is
00:11:20happening in the context of the consequences and
00:11:24repercussions after the funeral of Ratko Mladić, especially
00:11:27international ones, Ms. Von der Leyen even
00:11:31mentioned that in her State of the European Union address, which
00:11:34for example was not the case last year when she spoke about the State of the European Union, everyone expected
00:11:38her to mention the demonstrations, the rebellion in Serbia, that didn't
00:11:42happen, now she mentioned it, why is the European
00:11:45Union so important
00:11:49that attitude towards the past,
00:11:52the nth degree compared to... internal democratic
00:11:56issues, well, I wouldn't say it's to the nth degree
00:12:00compared to internal democratic issues, it's all part of the same complex, which is that the European
00:12:04Union is not some random community of states, but a community of states
00:12:07based on certain values, those are respect for democracy,
00:12:11the rule of law, human rights and so on, that attitude towards the past is actually part
00:12:14of that, that you cannot deny mass crimes that were
00:12:18actually committed here in the 90s, which have been established by final
00:12:22court decisions, that by actually denying and inciting
00:12:25nationalism you are working against the very basic values of the European
00:12:28Union, that is why they, can it happen in Kosovo too,
00:12:32of course it can, of course it can, so what is happening now in Kosovo is of course
00:12:35very negative for the prospects of Kosovo for
00:12:39European integration and the attitude towards uh towards
00:12:43it is absolutely unison in the 90s we
00:12:46always had people here 5%, 10%,
00:12:50civic alliance, non-governmental organizations that spoke about crimes
00:12:53committed by our people, that is... members of our people committed in Kosovo, there is absolutely no one
00:12:57there, so no one can come out and say that the court is
00:13:01right, that those crimes actually happened, those people are indeed responsible,
00:13:05so unfortunately there the society is so uniformly
00:13:08consolidated in that one nationalist narrative that it is actually worse
00:13:11for them than for us, so their nationalism is on one hand worse than ours because
00:13:15it is victorious, because they got their state, if you want to put it that way, on its basis and
00:13:19everything is based on it and Kurti is of course very adept at mobilizing that nationalism
00:13:23today, just briefly, what is
00:13:27the difference between victorious nationalism and nationalism that is
00:13:30based on defeat? Because defeat can at least bring you
00:13:33back to reality, when you have lost 100 times, when you have realized that
00:13:37from those policies you have only had harmful consequences, there is a small
00:13:40chance that you will come to your senses, and if you
00:13:44have built, that's how it is in Croatia, if you have built your whole
00:13:47state on that one narrative, it is terribly difficult to get
00:13:50rid of that. Thank you for being a guest on N1 television, this was
00:13:54Professor Marko Milanović of the University of Reading, stay tuned to N1.
00:13:58Goodbye.
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00:20:06yesterday the barracks at the bus loop of line
00:20:0926 in Voždovac were demolished, and
00:20:12the residents of this informal settlement were left without
00:20:15a roof over their heads, Tamara
00:20:19Ognjanović is on the spot and Tamara, despite initiatives to preserve this
00:20:23settlement, nothing came
00:20:25of it,
00:20:29that's right, after several weeks and even months of struggle to
00:20:33preserve the homes of several families, among
00:20:36whom were mothers with children, and elderly people,
00:20:40and sick people, so it did not
00:20:43successfully, let's say, end, since you can see behind us
00:20:46are their homes in this informal
00:20:50settlement demolished yesterday, and further trucks
00:20:53and excavators are clearing
00:20:56this area, and families have been relocated,
00:21:00and today I will talk precisely with one of the
00:21:03former residents of this informal settlement, uh
00:21:07Miljan Ristić, Miljan, thank you for speaking to N1, and I will also talk to
00:21:11Milica, I apologize, I forgot
00:21:13Marinković from the A11 initiative organization that deals with the protection
00:21:17of economic and social rights of vulnerable groups and that has followed
00:21:20this case from the beginning, Miljan, let's start by
00:21:24telling us what the demolition looked
00:21:27like yesterday, well, without any notification,
00:21:31without anything, I mean, it was just like, the excavators came,
00:21:35one excavator came and a truck, we knew they had
00:21:38come for us, but they somehow moved away until the municipal
00:21:42police came, as soon as the municipal police came, they immediately went back,
00:21:46the same excavators and trucks, and nothing, then there was
00:21:50an inspector, the chief of the municipal department of Voždovac,
00:21:53I guess, as he is called, regarding
00:21:56these barracks where you lived, and did you take your things out of
00:22:00them or not, well, mostly we did, something unfortunately
00:22:03was lost, but did they let you
00:22:06take out your things or did they immediately start demolishing, well, we tried
00:22:10first to ask for
00:22:13a notification, some solution to
00:22:16get or something to demolish ourselves, but that was not
00:22:20allowed because it was treated as if no one existed, which was our
00:22:23biggest problem from the beginning, that they only looked at
00:22:27the shacks, they didn't look at it as someone's home, that it was someone's house, but they looked at it as
00:22:30communal waste and that's it, uh,
00:22:34and they looked for ways
00:22:36to demolish
00:22:39it, then we got into an argument with
00:22:43them about that solution, eventually until the commissioner
00:22:46came, when the commissioner came, there were
00:22:49people from A11 and there was another organization, I'm not sure
00:22:53exactly which one it is, mm, until the commissioner
00:22:56came, they literally didn't start, when the commissioner came,
00:23:00he talked to them, in the end
00:23:03, thanks to some circumstances,
00:23:06thanks of course to A11 initiative
00:23:10and the commissioner, we got containers in Ripanj,
00:23:13today two should be set up,
00:23:17today two more, so part of the families. Accommodation has been
00:23:21provided for them in containers in Ripanj, but for some
00:23:24families it has not yet, it should be today, is that right, today at 11 o'clock
00:23:28it is planned to set up two more containers there in
00:23:32Ripanj, uh
00:23:34now last night only that mother with
00:23:38children, that single mother was accommodated while we
00:23:42managed to find something for tonight and that's it, and what did they
00:23:45tell you about the children, since there were
00:23:49children living here who went to a nearby school, what will happen to them, which school will
00:23:52they go to? As far as I know from the information we
00:23:55received, the children will be transferred to Ripanj to
00:23:58school, they will continue their schooling normally and
00:24:02they will be provided with a suitable life as much as
00:24:05possible, that's it, how do you view
00:24:08uh what how was
00:24:11this procedure conducted, that is, how did the competent
00:24:15services react, well, to be completely honest,
00:24:18not at all, if it wasn't for the people from
00:24:21A11 uh, if it wasn't for
00:24:25the commissioner, if this commissioner for human equality
00:24:29Milan Antonijević hadn't come, if it wasn't for him,
00:24:33if there weren't a few other people who are also from some
00:24:36organizations, I'm not sure exactly what they're called because I can't keep track of
00:24:40everyone anymore, uh, nothing would have
00:24:43happened, the system would have just said goodbye
00:24:47and that's it, probably no one would have done anything. That's what I have to
00:24:51say. Milica, we heard the commissioner got involved in
00:24:54this story, that is, in solving the problem, you also stated
00:24:58that his possibilities are
00:25:01limited, what is all controversial in this case, which competent
00:25:04services, bodies, institutions did not react, but should have. Yes, well,
00:25:08the commissioner, realistically, they also issued a recommendation of measures, actually they appeared more
00:25:12as an intermediary to ensure that everything was in line with human
00:25:15rights standards, and they certainly cannot do everything, nor
00:25:19should they have the role of a social work center, which is the most
00:25:22significant here, but certainly also the Secretariat for Property Protection,
00:25:26many of these city services that should provide
00:25:29support to people when they are in social need, as was the case
00:25:33here, because these people are in the social welfare system, they are not
00:25:36unknown, they were not unidentified persons, as it is stated
00:25:40in the decisions of the communal inspection, these
00:25:43facilities were actually something they considered
00:25:47their home, and that is what is important to us. We have
00:25:51a housing law that should have been applied in this case, because if
00:25:54it had been done from the start, we would not have had the situation
00:25:57yesterday where the barracks were first demolished and then a home was sought for these
00:26:01people, that really should have all been arranged much
00:26:05earlier, and all these situations from yesterday would have been
00:26:08avoided, and in fact, we still don't have the situation
00:26:11completely resolved, but we certainly see that it will probably be
00:26:15fine with accommodation, meaning that people will not be
00:26:18left on the street, but that a lot of pressure,
00:26:22a lot of work was needed for
00:26:25institutions to do their job, and this
00:26:28is not the only such case, it is not unique.
00:26:32"Such situations often occur where people are being relocated,
00:26:36without being provided with a solution for
00:26:39their living situation, how do you see that and
00:26:42what is the cause? Yes, well, we see it as something
00:26:46that tends to become a practice, unfortunately, and that is something
00:26:50we must prevent, we must, that is why we must react so that you
00:26:53cannot consider municipal waste as something that is
00:26:57someone's only home, that it really creates a high risk of
00:27:00homelessness for..." actually, quite certain homelessness for
00:27:04people, we didn't have that before,
00:27:07mostly in Belgrade, we encounter these situations
00:27:11where with a communal decision, something that could
00:27:15be a residential building is demolished, that informal way of
00:27:18understanding it, a little different, but somewhere in the context of
00:27:22human rights, but what is important to us is to constantly
00:27:26point out human rights standards, so that it is not forgotten that the laws that
00:27:30have been adopted and that provide that... protection must be applied, we cannot
00:27:34create practices of human rights violations, and how do you see
00:27:37the background of this specific case, there was
00:27:41a ban by the European Court, there are domestic laws that need to be respected, yet nothing of
00:27:45that was done, yes, I must explain that that interim measure was
00:27:48adopted, it lasts for a certain period, but that does not mean that with its
00:27:52expiry, this entire factual situation has changed, that
00:27:55we are not in danger of human rights violations, that people were not in danger of
00:27:59demolition, which certainly, as we can see behind me,
00:28:02proved to be true, the procedure is still
00:28:06ongoing, the state of Serbia was obliged, and is still
00:28:09obliged to take measures, some measures have already been taken, but again,
00:28:13this is not a situation that happened in a few hours, they were already in
00:28:17the social welfare system, all of this could and should have
00:28:21been resolved earlier and gradually and according to procedure, so that is
00:28:24why I am asking how you see the background, how do
00:28:27you read that background, is it just negligence,
00:28:31carelessness, oversight, or something else, generally when we talk
00:28:34about the poorest, these are people who mostly either do not know their
00:28:38rights or are afraid to protect them,
00:28:42here we simply have great negligence from institutions towards
00:28:45multiple vulnerable categories, this is something we often see in practice,
00:28:49something that we must point out such violations precisely so that
00:28:52it is prevented, and you know, we were here on the ground, but maybe
00:28:56now there is another settlement where we are not and do not know, and those people do not
00:29:00know that there are institutions
00:29:02or organizations that can protect them,
00:29:06that is precisely why state bodies should act everywhere the same and
00:29:10everywhere act according to the law. Thank
00:29:13you for speaking to N1, so here, the informal
00:29:17settlement at the corner of Braće Jerković and Veljko Vlahović streets
00:29:20has been demolished, the site is still being cleared, as
00:29:23you can see, some families have found
00:29:26accommodation, i.e. the Center for Social Work has placed them in
00:29:30social barracks in July for some
00:29:33families, it is expected that
00:29:36a housing solution should be resolved today during
00:29:40the day. Tamara, thank you, this was our reporter
00:29:44Tamara Ognjanović.
00:29:55And this stable and warm weather will not last much longer today
00:29:58and tomorrow, warm, during the weekend we expect occasional rain, and
00:30:02showers, Sara Botić has the details, and Sara,
00:30:05when exactly does the change arrive and how much fresher weather will
00:30:09it bring us.
00:30:12Nataša, for the next two to three days, it remains warm with
00:30:16temperatures above average, i.e. around
00:30:1930°. Then next week we expect real
00:30:22autumn weather, temperatures around 20, rain and
00:30:25showers. And before that, this Thursday and Friday bring
00:30:29sunny weather with temperatures above average. Namely, today the
00:30:33temperature will be up to 31, while Friday will be the warmest
00:30:37day of this week with a temperature of up to 32 degrees.
00:30:41Due to these temperatures which are above average values, the Republic
00:30:44Hydrometeorological Institute has activated a lower level warning for today
00:30:48and tomorrow, a yellow weather alarm in parts of Serbia where it will be
00:30:52warmest, that is in the south, southeast and east of
00:30:54Serbia, the temperature will be highest today and tomorrow in
00:30:58Niš, over 30.