Google Speech-to-Text API Automatic Transcription (Chirp). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00states,
00:00:03of of we have seen
00:00:05of of that, especially also post Mark, there has been very different ways in which the international community sees
00:00:08and interacts with Pakistan,
00:00:10and of course the role of mediator also enhanced this
00:00:13of geopolitical position and because of
00:00:16a result of Pakistan's proactive foreign policy, we've seen these engagements taking
00:00:20place now with such agreements also being
00:00:23developed with very important allies for Pakistan, how do you
00:00:27of think that also continues to shape our geopolitic? position and
00:00:31our foreign policy stunds
00:00:33of and especially our outlook in the ways that different countries want to engage with
00:00:36Pakistan. If I take you
00:00:40back 14 months,
00:00:42May 2025, India has had miscalculated that we are
00:00:46less relevant to the world, when they taxed
00:00:49of us, they thought that they are too relevant and Pakistan should
00:00:51of be made irrelevant, that did not
00:00:54a succeed and we earned our relevance not to their liking obviously, and
00:00:57became
00:00:58a regional stabilizing. last May and
00:01:02fast forward to June
00:01:03of of 2026, we prove to the world that we are not only not
00:01:07sponsoring terrorism, but we are a peace loving country which not only
00:01:11upholds its own sovereinity, but obviously we can significantly
00:01:15contribute to bringing a super power and obviously Iran to a
00:01:19common ground and make them work at least on the peace
00:01:22talks, number
00:01:23of one, and then I keep saying most
00:01:25of the time that globally you can buy a
00:01:29military...
00:01:30you can buy industry, you can buy anything that you want to build,
00:01:34what
00:01:34of you cannot buy through money is your influence, your impression and your
00:01:38narrative, that has been, that has to be earned,
00:01:41of and we earned in last 14 months and the world considers us
00:01:45a responsible country, obviously which is keenly obviously interested in the
00:01:49global peace, number one, and that is why you see you do not
00:01:53a do just by marketing yourself, you do not create the influence, you you have
00:01:57to manifest, you have to prove it, and the last one year we have... proven it to the
00:02:00world, he is the country, in spite of having challenges
00:02:04economically and on other fronts, we still
00:02:08of have great intentions of contributing, so I think we've earned the influence, we've
00:02:12earned the relevance and the
00:02:13of diplomatic platforms are one by one opening for us and world
00:02:17finds that now more credible partner in the peace instead of what
00:02:21our enemies had projected over the years and rather over the
00:02:24decades that this is nation which cannot be trusted and especially after our
00:02:28going nuclear a lot of campaign bunting against us saying that we are
00:02:32irresponsible country which obviously cannot be trusted by the global
00:02:35players, so I think we found new relevance, we hope and continue to
00:02:39contribute, and the last thing
00:02:40I like to add on ambassador Imran saying that I hope and pray tomorrow Iran
00:02:44can be made very into comfortated zone by ensuring that
00:02:48this is nothing to do with the Iran and I'm sure Iran would
00:02:52of understand that if there is vacuum between these regional countries it will
00:02:56create or invite aggression from especially Israel because they like to
00:03:00create
00:03:00a relevance here in this region, the more united we are, may not be under an
00:03:04agreement every country, but I think the more cohesive relationship,
00:03:08more trust that we have,
00:03:10it will deny and obviously diffuse any opportunity which those
00:03:14countries, especially the transregional countries may like to make attempt and
00:03:18intrude into creating a bad relationship between the
00:03:21muslim countries. Right, thank you very much
00:03:25for joining us and being a part
00:03:27of the news room today, ambassador, let me get back to... in terms of how
00:03:31we're looking at the situation and especially in terms of what
00:03:34me this will entil in the future
00:03:36for a country like Pakistan of course and it's very important
00:03:40ties with countries like Saudi Arabia and
00:03:44of Turkey, it's important to see how exactly this will transpire as part
00:03:47of the defense cooperation in case of any aggression, but in what in
00:03:51what ways do you think it also looks at
00:03:55or impacts Pakistan's own
00:03:58regional? and in the ways that Pakistan would also like to
00:04:02strengthen its geopolitical and military positions and the
00:04:06kind of threats that the country is facing, how do you think that such
00:04:10alliances, if not part of this agreement, but in terms
00:04:13of the importance of engaging and expanding our alliances with different
00:04:17in countries, how does that help Pakistan's position in terms of
00:04:20leveraging towards the aspects that are
00:04:24of a special interest to
00:04:26of us? yes, I think, I think...
00:04:31the the message that goes out of this
00:04:35a trilateral
00:04:37a alliance is that that Pakistan is
00:04:41at least now trusted on the on
00:04:44the middle
00:04:45of eastern side and the western side with one country is
00:04:49a NATO member so it it
00:04:53of a raises Pakistan's position
00:04:57defensifies but at the same time. It provides
00:05:00deterence now geopolitically
00:05:04of Pakistan's main problem nowadays
00:05:07arises from the east or the west, I think
00:05:11in those two. theaters also, i think the message goes
00:05:15out whether there are
00:05:18joint kinetic operations as air
00:05:22commodor said whether js 17 would go
00:05:26from this place to that place, but it gives it
00:05:30gives punch, it gives punch to pakistan that it's
00:05:34part of a trilateral alliance, we had our
00:05:37RCDs, we had other ecos, but this is
00:05:41historically the first trial at with Saudi Arabia
00:05:45was the first bilateral alliance, but this is now a
00:05:49trilateral alliance, so so I think I think it gives
00:05:53Pakistan lot of lot of weight in international affairs
00:05:56in its own geopolitical conflicts, it gives it
00:06:00gives Turkey, Turkey lot of it that Turkey is
00:06:04now playing role regionally also being
00:06:08a being being a NATO member and it affords.
00:06:12Saudi Arabia, the multilayered
00:06:16defense protection, it has
00:06:19protection from the from the US, but now it it
00:06:23is also in alliance with two two different countries, so
00:06:27geopolitically it helps Saudi Arabia also,
00:06:30so it will raise challenges for Pakistan
00:06:34in its mediation, but generally it will be
00:06:38very beneficial for Pakistan this agreement.
00:06:42Right, ambassador Imran, there is also of course the aspect
00:06:46of what ways we're looking at the
00:06:50situation develop between the United States and Iran,
00:06:54and like you mentioned earlier, Pakistan's role of mediation is very, very
00:06:58integral to this and is closely linked to how exactly Pakistan is
00:07:01interacting with key regional players, I'd like you to stay with us for the next segment also that takes
00:07:05closer look at the situation and how
00:07:08exactly this is moving forward, we've also been joined for that.
00:07:13ment by Brian Steet was author and senior fellow with Narrative strategies and
00:07:16author of Narrative War. Thank you very much Brian for joining us and being a part
00:07:20the discussion today. In light of what we are seeing happening now about six
00:07:24months from when this war actually started, how do you
00:07:28think that the United States has progress throughout this
00:07:32conflict and what it is that the Trump administration uh is
00:07:35still hoping to achieve or at least is
00:07:39communicating that is trying to achieve to its own public. where do
00:07:43you think uh is the goal post and what's the strategy to achieve
00:07:46it? oh, that's a lot of questions. okay,
00:07:50so uh, i don't
00:07:54think the goal posts have changed as much as
00:07:58the commentary on the goal post uh implies that they've
00:08:02changed, but that's said, i think that there is a
00:08:05certain realization that the way to get
00:08:09the goals or to accomplish the goals. that were
00:08:12originally set out is going to have to
00:08:16happen through some other means, it is not going to
00:08:20be sufficient to inflict harm on
00:08:23the state of Iran, and then that will cause Iran to
00:08:27concede whether that's nuclear enrichment or it
00:08:31conceeds its support
00:08:35for regional non-state
00:08:37actors, I keep the straights of
00:08:40Hormus separate because... a straight is
00:08:44issue that was not the reason
00:08:47that the Trump administration went into the war, it's
00:08:50a it's an objective that became
00:08:54an objective because the war, so it's part
00:08:58of the Trump administration went in with a
00:09:01highly kinetic meaning
00:09:05bombing and inflicting
00:09:08damage that way, they they went in.
00:09:13this with that being their method, but
00:09:17now
00:09:18and and then Iran responded after several weeks by
00:09:22closing or at least primar mostly closing the straight of
00:09:26horm, which now means that we are a
00:09:29negotiation about something that interestingly enough
00:09:33should not even be matter of negotiation, the straight is considered
00:09:37by everyone except Iran and maybe now
00:09:40Oman to be in. international waterway and
00:09:44nobody has the right to negotiate over movement through an international
00:09:48waterway, but that's sort of where we are, I'm
00:09:52not, I personally I'm not happy that that's where we are,
00:09:56I, I think the administration would be happy if we could
00:10:00get out of this position with something
00:10:03that looks like return
00:10:06to the
00:10:10conditions before the war began. because even
00:10:13with that, if everything else returned to the pre-war
00:10:17conditions, uh, the United States has still
00:10:21inflicted tremendous damage to the...
00:10:25IRGC to the Iraqi military and their
00:10:29capacity to conduct operations and
00:10:31also inflicted tremendous harm to the
00:10:35Iranian economy, I think I said Iraqi military, but the IRGC
00:10:39military and to the Iranian
00:10:41economy, so those could be considered
00:10:45wins all by themselves, now the only obstacle to
00:10:49declaring victory, I think from a political
00:10:52standpoint would be - something that can be
00:10:56communicated as the reopening the straight of
00:10:58hormos right ambassador
00:11:02Imran, in in your perspective, when we see the
00:11:06situation inch closer between Iran and Oman in the
00:11:09agreement that essentially will give lot of control to Iran, which is
00:11:13what
00:11:13it has been asking for, and Brian is right in saying that that's a product the war in itself
00:11:17and not perhaps the core core objective as to why it started, but in what ways
00:11:21do you think that now lot of this is centered around the state? for moves
00:11:25and how exactly will that be navigated further and whether or not
00:11:29there is move forward towards its resolution that is acceptable
00:11:33to the US, which can then lead to at least addressing the core
00:11:36questions? thank you, I think,
00:11:40I think if the Oman and Iran
00:11:44agreement on the straight is
00:11:47actually done
00:11:49with done and dusted as a say the
00:11:53supreme leader has agreed to it. "I think
00:11:56Oman would not be in total contravention the
00:12:00US, man were knowing Oman very
00:12:03well, I think Oman would discuss this
00:12:07with with Great Britain because it has primacy in
00:12:10Oman as well as the US, it would not go
00:12:14against the against US, so I don't
00:12:17know whether the sort of root
00:12:21agreement that they are doing on the straight and..."
00:12:25voluntary fees whether it has tasset us approval or not, i
00:12:29would think man would never sign to anything
00:12:33that is anti entire us,
00:12:36so why the strate is important? because the
00:12:40straight stopped the whole
00:12:43discussion even before it could start,
00:12:47the 60 day period and all of that, so negatively it
00:12:51obstructed everything and my hope is that if it is
00:12:55indeed resolved between those two countries,
00:12:58probably discussions can start on other major
00:13:02issues or or as footprint called the various
00:13:06cold posts which are going to be discussed in the so-called
00:13:09mou, right?
00:13:12Brian, how are you looking at the ways in which the
00:13:16the leadership in Iran right now is approaching
00:13:20these aspects and of course the possibilities of negotiations, of
00:13:24course earlier. especially at the start the rhetoric was
00:13:28centered around the leadership and with that essentially different now in
00:13:32place. do you think that there has been a change in the way that Iran is interacting
00:13:36with the US or do you think that it's pretty much the
00:13:38same? well I well obviously there's a
00:13:42change from last February and
00:13:46till today and uh what is
00:13:49interesting and I mean I wish I could be a fly on the
00:13:52wall uh which I have not been so I'm not... exactly sure how it's
00:13:56being done, but the way it kind of comes across to as an
00:14:00observer is a little bit like an American
00:14:03police interrogation from an American tv
00:14:07show or movie where you have a good cop and a bad
00:14:11cop and the way the interrogation
00:14:14goes in television and movies is uh you have
00:14:18somebody who acts like the uh the
00:14:22victim or the... criminals
00:14:26friend and then another cop comes in and asks like the tough
00:14:29guy like
00:14:30the they want to do
00:14:31all this harm
00:14:32and i don't know and and i've talked
00:14:36with other people that kind of implied that the
00:14:39negotiators who are working both with the omanis
00:14:42and interacting with the americans even though the Iranians will say they're not
00:14:46negotiating directly with the americans uh those
00:14:50negotiators are essentially still irgc
00:14:53individuals that all they did was take off the uniform and put a
00:14:56suit, they're not fundamentally uh of
00:15:00different ideology or different world view, so I don't
00:15:04think Iran has two different tracks, one that's
00:15:08inclined to negotiation and one that's not,
00:15:11and therefore I'm kind of curious if Iran
00:15:15is doing this simply as a
00:15:19stage to sort of make the
00:15:22Americans look foolish where... they the
00:15:26Americans will be able to say, oh, it looks like we have deal, and
00:15:29then the IRGC spokesperson or whoever it
00:15:33is, will then come out and say, no, there is no deal, and then maybe
00:15:36they'll fire a... rocket or something like that to prove that they're right,
00:15:40and and therefore there's this confusing
00:15:43element. That's how it looks from the
00:15:47outside, that there is confusion within Iran. What I'm thinking more and
00:15:51more is there's not confusion within Iran, they're just making
00:15:54it look that way because it's to their benefit to
00:15:58kind of uh so
00:16:02confusion on the part the American
00:16:05delegation with whom... they
00:16:07interact, right? um, another
00:16:11important aspect, Brian, is with reference to Israel's
00:16:15actions in the middle east and then Israel's relationship with the
00:16:18United States, how exactly do you think
00:16:22that um, where does it stand at the moment, and whether or not there is a
00:16:26change in that relationship, and the importance that it has
00:16:29been given previously or historically to Israely
00:16:33interests. oh, that's that's a really good
00:16:36question. so there's there are changes on
00:16:40multiple frauds, some them are now almost three years old, starting
00:16:44with October 7th, 2023 or
00:16:4720 yeah, 2023 with
00:16:50the uh support
00:16:54for Palestinians and to a degree just plain support for
00:16:57Hamas that has taken place in
00:16:59America, I believe that you have previously talked
00:17:03on this show about Abdul Rahman El
00:17:06Said. uh the person who is now
00:17:10the democrat uh candidate for the US
00:17:14senate from the state of Michigan and his
00:17:17success uh in that and using
00:17:20particularly the US relationship with Israel,
00:17:23it is quite clear that the Democrat party in the
00:17:27United States is now almost, well it's a
00:17:31majority opposed to relationships with Israel
00:17:35and as a block US
00:17:37people uh voted against support for
00:17:41Israel, so it's within America, there's a
00:17:45really fascinating dynamic happening where Israel used
00:17:49to be 20, 30 years ago, it was a unifying
00:17:53voice, you would get people on the far left and people
00:17:56on the far right on the American political spectrum, and they would disagree on
00:17:59everything else, but they would vote together
00:18:03a bill to support Israel, but now that is... not
00:18:07true, I think it would be very, very hard to get almost
00:18:11any house votes for
00:18:15support for Israel bill, and
00:18:19in the Senate, maybe two or three, maybe more, but it's
00:18:23it's very slight, now between the
00:18:26US executive and the Israeli executive, that's another
00:18:30interesting dynamic, uh,
00:18:33President Trump does not seem to be, and I don't know him personally.
00:18:37so I can't say this for certain, but he does not seem to be a person who likes to
00:18:41be bossed around, nor a person who likes to
00:18:45be uh made to look foolish,
00:18:48and uh, BB
00:18:51Netanyahu has very strong
00:18:55personality, and he states things very
00:18:57unequivocally, which then kind
00:19:01of comes across as if he's ordering the American
00:19:04president, and that has... rankled President
00:19:08Trump over the F-35 sale to Turkey
00:19:12or while the reintroduction of Turkey into the
00:19:16F-35 program and uh and then
00:19:19of course uh the promises of the
00:19:23Netanyahu government with respect to what would
00:19:26happen in Iran or how quickly Iran would go
00:19:30uh have not come to fruition and I don't think Trump is happy with
00:19:34that so I think there's there's more friction. between the
00:19:38Netanyahu government and the Trump administration than there was
00:19:42back in February, but I I don't know, I don't
00:19:46think it's as bad as some people are portraying it, I don't think
00:19:49that there's a break, I don't think it's a fundamental shift, I just think that
00:19:52it's it's not as positive as it was six months
00:19:56ago uh, and if it is negative, it's a
00:20:00negative that could be overcome by positive
00:20:03accomplishments. Right, I understand that.
00:20:07ambassador Imran, I'd like your perspective of this too, especially given what
00:20:11we've seen transpire throughout this conflict in the way it
00:20:15started and how it has evolved so far, there is of course aspects of what
00:20:19is going on both within Israel and the United United
00:20:23States that adds to the influence on the key
00:20:27decision makers and the actions that they take, but in what ways do you think that
00:20:30this factor and then of course Israel's actions v
00:20:34Gaza, the west bank, Lebanon, and then... so the front
00:20:38between the Huti rebels in Saudi Arabia, how exactly are all
00:20:42these dynamics affecting the decisions being taken by
00:20:46both Iran and the United States and what do you think they are? making
00:20:50their own interests in light these developing
00:20:52situations? very difficult and very
00:20:56very expensive sort of
00:20:58question. i agree with brian that
00:21:02there might be some meritants between the executive branches
00:21:06of Israel
00:21:08and and the US,
00:21:12but they seem to be getting along, mean i don't
00:21:16know whether whether they'l be obvious and..."
00:21:20policy and the legislature, as he has
00:21:22explained, the house and the senate, they
00:21:25are, there
00:21:27are a different kettle of fish, I am not, and
00:21:30I wish I could be a fly on the wall in the
00:21:33IRGC, I don't know,
00:21:36I and I would agree with Brian again that
00:21:40this theory about a great dissonance in the
00:21:44Iranian government structure, I think this is
00:21:46overplayed, this '
00:21:51"there probably may be good cop or bad cop or
00:21:54maybe the irritants are much lesser
00:21:58than those that are portrayed. there has been
00:22:01a major Iranian loss,
00:22:05there have been major losses in the last 10 days
00:22:09also, so I don't know whether they would
00:22:12force the hand the IRGC and they would,
00:22:16they would not fire rocket, as Brian says disrupt the..."
00:22:20to disrupt the peace process once again or to prove their
00:22:24point, I hope they don't, because here in
00:22:27Pakistan, we are we are affected not only
00:22:30because the economic offshots but because we have we put
00:22:34our own whole state in the
00:22:38mediation process and that has that has
00:22:42been the center of our of our work, if
00:22:45I might say so, so I hope they don't,
00:22:49but one can't predict the IRGC just
00:22:53as one can't predict Trump, one
00:22:55can't predict the IRGC as
00:22:58well, right? thank you very much ambassador Imran for joining us
00:23:02and being a part the news room today. Brian, my last question to you, especially
00:23:06given now, how the situation has developed further and we're
00:23:10almost of course six months into it, there's the added economic
00:23:14pressures also that Mr. Trump is facing and of course the
00:23:18entire world is facing, but in what ways? do you think that the
00:23:21effect that that we see within the United States
00:23:25towards the Trump administration in this presidency and then of course the
00:23:29decreasing popularity that we've seen, how much of that
00:23:32is being navigated by the administration and what
00:23:36is being said that can then appease or
00:23:40satisfy the American public the kind of rises and prices that they're
00:23:44also witnessing? okay, it's really good
00:23:48questions '
00:23:52"I'm going to say the obvious, Donald J. Trump is not the
00:23:55typical American president uh, and where
00:23:59that might be really important is lot of
00:24:03presidents might radically adjust or might even have not even
00:24:07gotten involved in during an election year, even a mid-term election
00:24:11year, into incursion uh that
00:24:14he has. I don't know that he is as
00:24:18concerned as say a..." normal president
00:24:21would have been uh given the same thing or the same
00:24:25circumstances that said uh this war is unpopular
00:24:29it is an unpopular amongst republicans it is
00:24:33it is wildly unpopular among democrats and
00:24:36it is unpopular among independents and of course the independence
00:24:40are what matter because it's about a 40/40 well it's
00:24:44probably like 35 35 30 in America where you
00:24:48have about even 35 each
00:24:52rep or republican and democrat and about 30% independent and that depends on
00:24:56the state uh that you're talking about, and so independent
00:25:00voters are are significantly
00:25:02important uh, they are moved
00:25:06obviously by by economics, gas prices are higher in
00:25:10America, but they are way lower in America than almost anywhere else
00:25:13in the world, and huge reason for that is because the Trump administration's
00:25:17energy policies that have... ensured that America is
00:25:21producing more oil now than it is ever produced
00:25:25before, so uh, the Trump
00:25:28administration could make the argument that this was
00:25:32necessary war, I don't think they've communicated that particularly well to this
00:25:36point, and then they could also make the argument at the same time that the reason
00:25:39why things aren't worse is because
00:25:43the policies that they've implemented that are very
00:25:46pro-energy, so all of those things, I i would just..." argue that it's
00:25:50all not necessarily doom and gloom, but if you
00:25:54are democratuh
00:25:57campaigning for election, or you're a
00:26:01democrat political? consultant, you have lot to be happy
00:26:05about in terms the mood and in terms the economic direction, and
00:26:09that general polling, so if you look at right track, wrong
00:26:12track, it's it's not favor the
00:26:15in Trump administration at all, and
00:26:18Trump's overall popularity is below 40%, which
00:26:22tends to be a bad marker in terms of holding seats,
00:26:26so there's a lot
00:26:27of intricacies within the American political system that are quite unique this
00:26:31year, but still, I would say it doesn't look good,
00:26:35but I don't think it's hopeless, and it really will, it
00:26:39will be - as a person who enjoys watching the political
00:26:43game, it this will be fascinating election
00:26:47season to watch, because I don't think it's going to come out
00:26:50as lot the surface level
00:26:53predictions are are predicting, I think it's going to be closer run
00:26:57thing than people imagine, but that's just
00:27:00a guess on my part definitely, definitely. be interesting if nothing else, thank
00:27:04you so much Brian State for joining us and being a part the show today, the
00:27:07going on and the developments of course taking place very integral in terms of what is
00:27:11happening in the larger middle east and what the future scenario will be and we'll be here to
00:27:15talk more about that as it develops, that's all that we have from the newsroom today,
00:27:19we'll now see you on
00:27:20monday.
00:29:08No, we were not happy with him buying oil from
00:29:11Russia. If India doesn't buy oil, it makes it
00:29:15much easier, and they're not going to buy,
00:29:17they.
00:30:42Hello and good afternoon, you are watching Pakistan TV and
00:30:46I am Rafi Sohel with the top stories the hour. Let's have
00:30:48look.