Google Speech-to-Text API Automatic Transcription (Chirp). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:12Turkey's defense technology and and how important
00:00:16is it to the future military capabilities of this
00:00:20trilateral trilateral framework in your
00:00:25of opinion? that is critical frankly speaking Turkey in terms
00:00:29of uavs in terms of tanks and terms
00:00:33of other much needed
00:00:35technologies which are
00:00:39now
00:00:40of becoming part
00:00:40of the warfare
00:00:41and where turkey is needing in
00:00:45this regard and mind you turkey refused
00:00:49of to share it with
00:00:51a India, India then went on went on and
00:00:54bought the
00:00:56of American equipment from this so Turkey is at that level.
00:01:01That is critical to everybody here, to Saudi
00:01:04Arabia, to
00:01:05Pakistan. Pakistan
00:01:09of
00:01:09a course has its own capabilities which can be, which are
00:01:13in certain ways Turkey is helping out in this regard. So put together
00:01:17Pakistan is the technical know how understanding,
00:01:21Pakistan's geography, Pakistan's
00:01:24other
00:01:26of stents and also the fact that Turkey is located.
00:01:30where it is located is also a strength in terms
00:01:33of geography which very few countries enjoy, so there will
00:01:37be of course, so therefore I think we should look
00:01:41at it little more openly
00:01:43and I am
00:01:47very, thank you for joining us, I'm going to be moving
00:01:51to the second part of our program, we have with us Paul
00:01:55joining us, a senior fellow middle east institute
00:01:57of Switzerland, former US diplomat, thank you for being with us.
00:02:01Paul, when we look
00:02:02of at the US-Israel relations, I think we've spoken about this before in
00:02:06terms
00:02:06of the way that we've seen, and would you agree, the slight
00:02:10thowing between Washington and
00:02:13you know what's happening with
00:02:15of Israel, how how do you look at that situation, do you think that, there are
00:02:19ramifications, potential developments moving
00:02:23on from a while ago when we saw the comments coming from JD vans
00:02:27which were then followed by you know the telephone call.
00:02:31that was openly heard and and it is
00:02:34continued, would you agree with that, that there has been a slight
00:02:37of erosion? I would agree
00:02:40with that, and I think we're looking at several mutually reinforcing
00:02:44developments
00:02:45of that are happening simultaneously. I think first,
00:02:49of Israel enjoyed quite a
00:02:51of bit of sympathy and goodwill following the attacks of October
00:02:547th, but then proceeded to lose much
00:02:58of that in ' the
00:03:01of of American public based upon its conduct of its
00:03:05war in in Gaza. Um, the the second
00:03:09thing is that we've seen a movement on the American right, that is
00:03:13skeptical of foreign military assistance in
00:03:16general, and skeptical
00:03:18of the close relationship
00:03:20of between of the United States and Israel in particular, and so I think there's been
00:03:24a convergence of opposition to Israeli
00:03:28actions from the
00:03:29a left and from the right. and uh we saw some of that reflected in vice
00:03:33president Vance's statements. then there's the
00:03:36question of uh the war in Iran. um, President
00:03:40Trump uh took the United States to war in Iran uh without
00:03:44explaining his motives to the American people without seeking
00:03:47authorization from Congress. this war has been very
00:03:51unpopular from the beginning. it's been very frustrating for Mr.
00:03:55Trump who has consistently scaled back his uh
00:03:58a war objectives. "and I think there's been an effort in the White House to
00:04:02find someone to blame for that, and
00:04:06Israel has made a convenient scape coat in that regard,
00:04:10so I think all
00:04:10of these things taken as a whole have
00:04:14eroded what is traditionally very close relationship and
00:04:18security relationship in particular between the United States and
00:04:21Israel. When we look at
00:04:25you know this this thought, lot of people are saying that it's
00:04:28temporary, do you think that..." going to be
00:04:30a rebound that Israel is going to be able to bounce back
00:04:34uh to what has been traditionally its closest
00:04:37ally? um, i
00:04:40think that remains to be seen. um, we shouldn't
00:04:43exaggerate the extent of of
00:04:49in this skism because the level of security cooperation between the United States and
00:04:53Israel remains very close. Israel remains
00:04:56dependent upon American military technology and and
00:05:00American military production in many
00:05:02respects, but at this by the same
00:05:05token, I don't think we're going to see
00:05:08a return to the the sort of broad bipartisan.
00:05:13um unquestioning consensus that we saw um
00:05:1715 or 20 years ago, and I think much of that
00:05:20has to do with choices made by prime minister Netanyahu
00:05:24um to get involved in American domestic politics
00:05:28and to uh sort of tilt his support uh
00:05:32toward the Republican Party which has alienated many
00:05:35Democrats, and I think much of that has to has to do with
00:05:39changes um within that Republican party and... the
00:05:42strengthening of a neo isolationist or or
00:05:46at minimum very transactional
00:05:50wing that is skeptical the the sort
00:05:53of long-term alliances that we
00:05:57see between the United States and Israel, so it's it's possible that
00:06:00relations will improve, but I don't think we're going to see return
00:06:04to the status quo as it once was. do you
00:06:08think that it it could be argued that perhaps you're right that we can't over?
00:06:12play or over uh sort of emphasize or or you know give
00:06:16it too much importance whatever has happened, but you think it's also you
00:06:20know possible that this is regional balance of power
00:06:24shift that is gradually
00:06:26happening um shifting against it
00:06:29at as far as park the Washington and the relationship between
00:06:33at this time Donald Trump and Netan Yahoo. Well I
00:06:37think it's broader than a question the relationship between Donald Trump and
00:06:40Netanyahu um because ' Donald Trump
00:06:43has um two more years uh left on the
00:06:47political scene, he's not eligible to run for
00:06:49re-election, so paying attention to what
00:06:53potential uh democratic contenders for the presidency have to say,
00:06:56paying attention to what Mr. Vans and Mr. Rubio have to
00:07:00say, I think is just as important as the uh personal
00:07:04chemistry between Mr. Trump and Mr. Netanyahu, but I think we
00:07:07we've also seen a shift in terms the regional
00:07:10dynamics, um is... Israel in the
00:07:14aftermath the October 7th attacks managed
00:07:18to accomplish several impressive military
00:07:21victories over Hamas and Gaza, over Hizballah in southern
00:07:25Lebanon, over Iran in the 12-day war last
00:07:29year that significantly strengthened Israel's
00:07:32security and strategic position within the
00:07:36region, but as we've seen in the current
00:07:39conflict, they have not been able to translate those... military
00:07:43victories into political victories, and
00:07:46there are much tenser relationships between
00:07:50Israel and potential partners and allies throughout the Gulf
00:07:54region that I think have been exacerbated by this
00:07:58conflict. I think the the process of gradual expansion the
00:08:01Abraham accords is probably dead for
00:08:05now, and I think Israel finds
00:08:09itself much more isolated politically than it... was
00:08:13at the beginning the current conflict in February.
00:08:16Right, I'm just going to come back to you Paul, we also been joined by
00:08:20Munir Akram, former representative to park UN
00:08:24and joining us now. Mr. Akram, do you
00:08:27think that this is you know the growing concern over
00:08:31Israel's policies in Gaza and the
00:08:34wider Middle East, can it lead to a shift
00:08:38in Washington's approach towards Israel? We would just...
00:08:42discussing that and and do you think that it could eventually affect
00:08:46US military and diplomatic support also?
00:08:49perhaps it's too early at this time, but but if things
00:08:53continue and the same trend follows through,
00:08:56could we see that happening also?
00:09:00well,
00:09:01you know, I think it's
00:09:03obvious that Israel has lost a lot
00:09:07of public support in the United States as
00:09:11result of... its actions in Gaza, which
00:09:15many consider to be genocide, and
00:09:18then this perception that
00:09:22Israel dragged the United States into the war
00:09:26with Iran again has had an
00:09:29impact on the perception of
00:09:32Israel, the Israel is lost a lot of public
00:09:35support within the United States and and
00:09:39therefore in the long term it could have... an
00:09:42impact on the degree to which the United States
00:09:46is committed to to Israel, at the moment,
00:09:50however, I do not think that there is any
00:09:54serious threat to the US Israeli alliance
00:09:58as such, in fact there are some moves which
00:10:02would integrate the intelligence
00:10:05and certain defense networks between the US
00:10:09and Israel and this movement towards the... "greater
00:10:13cooperation between
00:10:15the two countries is going forward, but in the
00:10:19future certainly I think that if Israel's
00:10:23perception does not change. Again if it
00:10:26is continues its war in
00:10:29Gaza and is seen to be an
00:10:33aggressive power whether in Lebanon,
00:10:36Syria and Palestine in
00:10:40particular, I think things could change in the
00:10:43future, especially with this upsarge
00:10:47in in anti Israel opinion among the younger
00:10:51voters in the in the United States.
00:10:55Enough, let me go back to Paul. Paul, do you think that the changing, in the wake
00:10:59of what also said, do you think that
00:11:01you know the changing democratic attitudes towards
00:11:05Israel could eventually affect us military
00:11:09and diplomatic support? well, I think it's
00:11:13a combination the changing democratic attitudes toward Israel and the
00:11:17changing republican attitudes toward Israel, because what we've
00:11:20seen over the course the past six months as this conflict has
00:11:25on is that there has been
00:11:28since the Israeli military action in
00:11:32Gaza, there has been on the left
00:11:34in the United States very strong humanitarian
00:11:38case to make against US military support of
00:11:41Israel, and now we've seen that dovetail
00:11:45with movement on the right that is making a very pragmatic
00:11:49realist case that the closeness of this
00:11:52relationship is entangling the United States states in
00:11:56risky and dangerous military adventures in
00:11:59which the US should have no interest,
00:12:02so I i think the the specific
00:12:06danger at this point in time is that we see those trends
00:12:10converging and we see
00:12:13opposition to the current Israeli government if
00:12:16not for the state of Israel in general
00:12:20um coming from both the left and from the
00:12:23right? enough uh, Mr. Akram,
00:12:27Israel does appear to be facing significant setback in the
00:12:30region, is could it develop into greater
00:12:34strategic challenge for Israel in the coming days and
00:12:38also of course the narrative that has been built against
00:12:42it, whether it gives its credence or not, but
00:12:45largely we've seen, if you look at Washington, we look at Europe, we
00:12:49look all over, do you think that that has also
00:12:52contributed to to its outlook at
00:12:56this time? yes, i think
00:13:00i think Israel and particularly prime
00:13:04minister netan yahu have miscalculated. i
00:13:08think the brutality the war in
00:13:11Gaza set back the the
00:13:15prospects the so-called Abraham accords in the
00:13:19prospect of any normalization with Saudi Arabia and with
00:13:23other Arab and Muslim countries. will set back because the attacks
00:13:27on Gaza and then top of that, once the
00:13:30attack against Iran
00:13:34started, I think that has thrown
00:13:38into reverse all the prospects that Israel entertain
00:13:42with regard to the expansion the the
00:13:45Abraham accords, and now Israel is seen
00:13:49as much of a threat by the
00:13:53Arab states ' as is
00:13:56Iran, if not more so, so if
00:14:00there is in the future, any
00:14:03normalization, normalization process between
00:14:07the gulf, arab states and
00:14:11Iran, then Israel will become the kind of soul
00:14:14threat, be reversed by new government, which is
00:14:18not Mr. Netan Yahu and his extremist
00:14:22cabinet members, that remains to be, needs to be seen,
00:14:26but I think it will have to contract its
00:14:29ambitions quite considerably in order to
00:14:32normalize with the Arab states in
00:14:35particular, they will have to be some sort of
00:14:38path towards Palestinian self determination
00:14:42if normalization with the Arabs
00:14:46is is to take place in the
00:14:48future, in
00:14:51keeping with what Mr. Munir Akram is saying, Paul, do
00:14:55you think that, do you also think that this could perhaps make it
00:14:59easier or or
00:15:00you know allow the Palestinians cause
00:15:04to to gain you know the loss that we are seeing or or you know the
00:15:08relationship that we are looking at as far as the
00:15:12US
00:15:13and and Israel is concerned, could be gain eventual gain for the
00:15:16Palestinians or do you think that's going too far and giving it too
00:15:20much credit? well, I, I think the
00:15:24Palestinian... cause as a whole
00:15:26has has gained in terms of external political
00:15:29support, and I think that applies both within the region and
00:15:32in the United States, the problem is that
00:15:36that increase. sympathy for the Palestinian cause has not translated
00:15:40to progress on the ground for the Palestinian people, and we've
00:15:44seen conditions worrison, both in Gaza and in the West Bank,
00:15:48which is something that's been happening more
00:15:51quietly during Israel's military
00:15:54operations, but the actions of Israeli
00:15:58settlers that have been happening with at least the taset
00:16:02approval the Israeli authorities to evict
00:16:05Palestinian residents from their... homes in
00:16:09area that had absolutely nothing to do with the Gaza
00:16:12conflict, I think is is making it more and more difficult
00:16:16day by day to envision any sort of territorial
00:16:20solution to the Palestinian
00:16:22question, but but you think that at the same time
00:16:26the domestic audience in the US is also
00:16:29reacting to to of course
00:16:33the the US Israel nexus and and the fact that there's a...
00:16:37there is at least a question being asked in the US that that are they really
00:16:41towing the Israel line and and to what extent is it
00:16:45is a US policy? yes,
00:16:49that's definitely true, and i think that that is
00:16:53likely to have tangible consequences for the
00:16:56US-Israeli relationship, and in particular
00:17:00for the level of assistance that the United States provides to Israel.
00:17:04um, my only note of caution here is:
00:17:07that so far we have not seen
00:17:11um that the risk of that loss of support
00:17:15has had any impact whatsoever on Israeli
00:17:19policy toward the Palestinian people either in Gaza or in the west
00:17:23bank and if if I look toward the
00:17:26Israeli elections in October yes
00:17:30Mr. Netanyahu is quite vulnerable but I don't
00:17:34really see any forces domestically in Israel.
00:17:38that are likely to improve the situation for the Palestinian
00:17:41people. Right. Mr. Akram, very quickly, do you
00:17:45think, and and I asked Paul this earlier also that this
00:17:49will last, because if we and it's not just a question
00:17:53the current administration, the US administration and
00:17:56what's happening as far as Netan Yahoo is concerned, but but a more
00:18:00permanent sort of pressure and that, as far
00:18:03as the US, machinery.
00:18:07overall is concern that there is there is a cognisance that they perhaps need
00:18:11to take a step back from this alliance,
00:18:13you know,
00:18:14at least
00:18:14for a while. well, you know, I
00:18:18think, as I said, public opinion
00:18:21has turned against Israel, it
00:18:25remains to be seen how this will be translated into
00:18:29any concrete policy, as far as the US
00:18:33congress is concerned or the US administration is concerned,
00:18:36remains to be: seen what sort of constraints there are,
00:18:40if there are real limitations on the assistance that is provided to
00:18:44Israel, or whether it's just public posturing
00:18:47that that meant satisfy public
00:18:51opinion, remains to be seen, but I think the larger
00:18:54larger issue is that the United States, I
00:18:58believe, now has is coming to
00:19:02the consensus here that they should not
00:19:06be entangled. in the middle east that this is not a
00:19:09priority, it is an Israeli priority, it's not an
00:19:13American priority, America has got other fish to
00:19:16fry, more strategic challenges,
00:19:20whether from China, Russia or in Latin America,
00:19:24so I think US policy could
00:19:26shift visave the middle east,
00:19:30and that will have an impact on the degree of
00:19:34its support for Israel, I'm not. sure how far it will
00:19:38go, it could well be that the US would
00:19:42begin to depend even more on Israel
00:19:46for the protection of what it conceives is his national interest in in
00:19:50the region if it itself were to withdraw is basis for
00:19:54example from the gulf and from other arab
00:19:56countries. in terms of its entanglement
00:20:00as far as you know the middle east is concerned, do you think it's too little
00:20:04too late as far as the US is concerned and they are hopelessly? angled
00:20:08it
00:20:08it will you know it take some monumental
00:20:12amount of effort for for the US at this time
00:20:16to to sort of extradite the you know extricate themselves the way that
00:20:19they envisage that they can, isn't that also
00:20:22accurate? well, i i think
00:20:25the us is a position, look its bases
00:20:29in in the gulf have been damaged, so it could very well
00:20:33just decide not to rebuild those bases, it could be
00:20:37finish its profile and just locate
00:20:41itself in one or two gulf countries rather than all over the
00:20:44place um and it could depend on
00:20:48friends like Saudi Arabia, Turkey,
00:20:52Pakistan to be able to contribute to
00:20:55stability in the Gulf, and I think
00:20:59that this is something that could be
00:21:02factor in the
00:21:04in the trilateral agreement that has been reached, these are countries
00:21:08which are now seeking to build their own security
00:21:11within the their own region, and this could also
00:21:15be a way in which the United States could
00:21:19reduce it. profile in the region, so I think a
00:21:23lot of things remain to be seen, but I think the
00:21:27US after this experience is probably going to
00:21:30step back and allow this region
00:21:33to evolve its own
00:21:36arrangements without the kind of
00:21:40military entanglement
00:21:42that that has for being with us,
00:21:46Mr. Akram, thank you for joining us, Paul, thank you for being with us, in terms.
00:21:50so of course at this time when we look at the US and Israel certainly there
00:21:53seems to be a flaw frisur as far as that relationship
00:21:57is concern. how permanent it is of course remains to be
00:22:01seen, but at this time there seems to be at least a question as
00:22:05far as the US is concerned that whether they can
00:22:09assist the Israel to the degree they seem to have been
00:22:13doing and whether they can necessarily continue this
00:22:16alliance at the level that we've seen. thank you so much. for
00:22:20joining us today on
00:22:21perspective.
00:23:03Mosques in India are prime target of
00:23:06Hindutva terrorism. Hindutva
00:23:10regime has demolished yet an other mosque in
00:23:14Samhal district in Uttar
00:23:15Pradesh.
00:23:21Modi regime is demolishing mosks across India
00:23:25to hurt religious sentiments the
00:23:27Muslims. Since 2014,
00:23:31there has been a sharp rise in violence against
00:23:35Muslims in India. International
00:23:38Community must act to save Indian Muslims from
00:23:42Hindutva
00:23:43terrorism.
00:23:55you about about the Pakistani
00:23:57role, thank you, how have
00:24:01the Iranian leadership rule been so far? i
00:24:05think they gen means in the
00:24:09regionship
00:24:11and i
00:24:14have no second thought about the fact that the man
00:24:18of peace.
00:27:28and welcome to unfold, I am. Sir is on the
00:27:31Israel that... is violating all the international rules and
00:27:35law, actually the crisis had started about
00:27:39two to three decades before, the United States under the pressure of Israel
00:27:43wants to degrade the military
00:27:46capacity of Iran to control the straight of
00:27:49homo has to decide especially now
00:27:53that you don't have a unified leadership, what you have on the
00:27:57ground is a tripatriot
00:28:01coalition. This is exactly the point uh, not to make things
00:28:04hard with the average person, but to retain some leverage in these
00:28:08negotiations. On the parts of Iranians, the Iranian supreme leader
00:28:12mumeni now finds himself pressured by
00:28:15both pro government uh public clamering for retribution.
00:28:19Mr. Witkof and Kushner and others went
00:28:23with the template that they designed for
00:28:27Gaza.
00:28:39In a world full of noise, clarity
00:28:41matters, the
00:28:45news never
00:28:45sleeps.
00:28:49Every minute, every second, there's something
00:28:53happening. Somewhere
00:28:57in the chaos,
00:29:01the truth gets hidden. every night
00:29:05at 10 we connect the dots. watch the news room with
00:29:09Sanna only on Pakistan
00:29:11TV.
00:29:16Before the Whistle blows, before the final bell, there is the
00:29:19conversation. It's a language understood by every
00:29:23stadium on every street corner. It's a moment your
00:29:26heartbeat with million others. It's
00:29:30a roar of crowd. the silence of
00:29:33anticipation, it's a trimeful cry of a
00:29:37champion, it's more than a game, it's a
00:29:41connection
00:29:45tv speaks to the
00:29:47world,
00:30:13Hello and
00:30:13a way on welcome to Pakistan TV. I am fizah with the top stories of
00:30:17this
00:30:18hour.
00:30:33Nationwide celebrations marks historic Makka joint defense agreement between
00:30:37Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. Celebrations will continue until Monday
00:30:41with public and private buildings illuminated in green and red lights.