Google Speech-to-Text API Automatic Transcription (Chirp). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00three fronts, we know for fact the Gaza situation
00:00:03remains unresolved, there is transigence on the part of Israel
00:00:07towards Lebanon also, are these separate or are
00:00:11these the parts of an wider interconnected regional
00:00:15war? thank you very much for having me and for the
00:00:19question, well
00:00:20it is of course all very very deeply interconnected and
00:00:24the recent events in Saudi Arabia are highly
00:00:27unfortunate, the targeting of this
00:00:301200 kilometers east west pipeline and the closure
00:00:34of the babal mandap now which is going to cost world
00:00:38economy as well as Pakistan economy very very heavily so
00:00:42this is not a very good news for the world now
00:00:45why this is happening because it all started from
00:00:49Gaza that we all know and the war is mutating
00:00:53you see it starts from Gaza 7th
00:00:55October and then it goes on and it involves
00:01:00Iran, then it involves Lebanon, then it
00:01:02involves other gulf nations,
00:01:06so it started as Gaza,
00:01:09a Israel problem, then it
00:01:11of turned into Iran, Israel war,
00:01:15in 12th June
00:01:17of of 25, and then it turns into US Iran war, then it turns into
00:01:21another situation,
00:01:23arab,
00:01:27arab nations enter the conflict. in their own
00:01:31ways because
00:01:33of the presence
00:01:34of the US forces in their
00:01:37of countries, so this is very very
00:01:41complicated and with every passing day
00:01:43it is getting more and more complicated, there's no doubt about it that
00:01:47everything is connected. i would even go to the extent of
00:01:50saying that the
00:01:53ukraine conflict is also connected, you remember two
00:01:57months
00:01:58in ago ukraine fire. a drone
00:02:01of at an Iranian vessel in in
00:02:04the caspian sea,
00:02:10a of so the greater fear is that what if these two war theaters,
00:02:14one in eastern Europe and one in the middle east, they get
00:02:17connected and there is a greater likelihood because
00:02:21of of turkish involvement in
00:02:25Syria and it was just last
00:02:28month when we were hearing
00:02:31news about Turkey and Israeli
00:02:34escalations, so fortunately did not
00:02:38really escalate to point
00:02:41of of no return where i want your understanding
00:02:44regarding as to the midterm elections pretty much around the
00:02:48corner, we have seen the latest poll by Fox
00:02:50of News, the talks of 71% believing there is no clear exit
00:02:54strategy with Trump administration from this
00:02:58of conflict, could you give us an understanding? what's at stake
00:03:01here at the moment for the Trump administration and what
00:03:05what are the ultimate objectives
00:03:08we we know for fact those objectives which were set at
00:03:12the very outset of this invasion against Iran were never
00:03:15achieved so what are the objectives right now rather things have
00:03:19expanded in multiple different dimensions right now
00:03:23the objective is to look good and to find a way
00:03:26of finding an exit from this
00:03:30conflict in the middle east and leave without
00:03:33any further damage to
00:03:37in the reputation of of Trump
00:03:40administration as well as the US
00:03:42economy, the diesel is not available in
00:03:4610 states in the United States, which is not a
00:03:50very good thing, so if it prevails
00:03:53further, the
00:03:55of upcoming elections are lost elections for Trump's party
00:03:59already. "as you are giving us data that
00:04:0274% people, Americans are are
00:04:06already not in favor
00:04:07of the war, they think that
00:04:09it it was the wrong war from the start and the war has gone wrong, it
00:04:12was total miscalculation, you
00:04:15in listen to any American independent defense analys and they say it's
00:04:19a lost war, so it is a stigma for the Trump
00:04:23administration, and I and I think it will
00:04:26be really, really difficult for them to.
00:04:30find a decent outcome
00:04:33of the elections that
00:04:35are that are due in November. I'll come to this particular aspect. Dr.
00:04:39Hasan zaffar, there is another aspect that I want your understanding about. I'll come back to you. Let
00:04:43me once again proceed to words Miku. Miku, now there
00:04:46is
00:04:47a report by the
00:04:48of UN fact finding mission
00:04:49of that says there are reasonable grounds that
00:04:53the US committed war crimes as far as that particular the
00:04:57first attack
00:04:58of on the primary school in which are 100. 50 people lost their
00:05:01lives, white house has rejected
00:05:05this report saying Americans don't target civilians,
00:05:08could you give us an understanding, what does that?
00:05:12speak about when the UN fact finding mission says there are reasonable
00:05:16grounds that the US committed war crimes and if
00:05:19that happens to be the case, are there any chances of an
00:05:23accountability on that front? well,
00:05:27the United Nation, the United
00:05:29States um, they will never
00:05:33admit that they target civilians and we
00:05:37know not only from the the war in Iran now,
00:05:41but but also previous..." uh previous wars that that
00:05:44civilians were target and uh with the excuse
00:05:48that we are targeting only terrorists or dictators
00:05:52uh innocent people were caught in the middle and to be
00:05:56straight forward no there will not be any
00:05:59any
00:06:03person coming and asking the united states to stand even
00:06:07trial or
00:06:09you know even to apologize because this never have
00:06:13before and I am not that positive that it will be the
00:06:17case in the
00:06:18in the future. Okay,
00:06:21so just give, could you give us an
00:06:24understanding regarding, there was an internal
00:06:28investigation the part of pentagon going
00:06:31on on this particular incident, that hasn't been
00:06:34released completely, and if white house rejects this
00:06:38report by the UN fact finding mission, don't you think they should sup
00:06:42quote that particular assertion, if there
00:06:46is nothing of that sort in that internal investigation the pentagon
00:06:50related to this matter, well first and first we need to
00:06:54see the whole investigation from the from the pentagon,
00:06:57also myself knowing how the
00:07:00pentagon does the
00:07:03investigations, some things they tend
00:07:06to let out for obvious
00:07:09reasons, so
00:07:12"unless the UN really, really pushes
00:07:15and wants the United States to be
00:07:19held accountable, at least now, if in the past was not
00:07:23the case, then I am very positive that
00:07:27there will be no consequences, they there have never been, and I don't
00:07:31see now to be the the time when things will change
00:07:35because we we've seen how many times the the pressure
00:07:39has failed simply because
00:07:41the the US" is military strong and because they
00:07:45have all sorts of um laws
00:07:49that even give the the the US military the
00:07:53right to bomb for example the
00:07:56hague, so if this is the case, I can imagine that they can
00:08:00come up with something to get rid the
00:08:03United Nations as as well, and we know that Trump
00:08:07wanted, and he still pursues this idea to
00:08:11defund. the United Nations on all sorts of
00:08:15grounds and allegations. Right, I get your
00:08:18point, Isabel, Middle East and North
00:08:22Africa relations expert. Thank you very much for being with us on unfold tonight,
00:08:26really appreciate that. Coming back to you, Dr. Dr. Hasan, I want
00:08:30your quicker understanding regarding this UN fact finding
00:08:34mission report, are there any chances of an accountability, and
00:08:38also the main question that I want your your understanding about
00:08:41is the how do you see
00:08:45China's role in this entire equation? we know for fact few days
00:08:48back Iranian foreign minister and Chinese foreign minister had
00:08:52a meeting and the Chinese are
00:08:56urging to deescalate the situation going back to the
00:09:00Islamabad memorandum of understanding also what I
00:09:03understand is that they put clearly their weight
00:09:07behind Iran's right of sovereignty,
00:09:10dignity, security. as well as the legitimate
00:09:13interests, so this last part, how do you assess
00:09:16that? what does that mean? this is very very
00:09:20important because president has lot of
00:09:24weight to put in this situation, and i think
00:09:28China is perhaps the
00:09:31only power on the
00:09:35globe that can really play a positive role,
00:09:38decisive role in this whole situation and
00:09:45the there is going to be meeting between president and president
00:09:48Trump on the 24th and i think
00:09:52this matter will be discussed there
00:09:54and China certainly can play a very
00:09:58important role and the visit of Abbas iraki to
00:10:02China and his meeting with Chinese foreign minister
00:10:06Wongi these matter must have been discussed and
00:10:10the revival the mous. bad mo must have been
00:10:13discussed and which also indicates
00:10:17a good sign for Pakistan that China was all the way
00:10:21on board when Pakistan was playing the negotiator. between
00:10:25the two parties which leading which led
00:10:29to the Islamabad mou, so
00:10:32China being on board is a good good
00:10:36thing for Pakistan that our relationship with China
00:10:40remain a stead fast and strong in this
00:10:43particular situation, so China is definitely a very good
00:10:47choice and if they have offered it themselves, I would like
00:10:50to think a very positive outcome of
00:10:53this. when they say that this they
00:10:57support or safeguard Iran's right to sovereignty, the
00:11:00legitimate interests, so what sort of message do you
00:11:04think must have been received in Washington regarding or is it the
00:11:08first time that we are seeing such a support coming from China so
00:11:12openly for Iran or there were earlier
00:11:16instances in that regard also? This is Chinese
00:11:19philosophy and they have put it across very clearly on
00:11:23various forums, think of... of SEO summit last year
00:11:262025, think of bricks summit where they
00:11:30say every nation
00:11:32have has a right to have a government and a system
00:11:36their own choice and it should be
00:11:40alignment with their own culture and the wishes the people and
00:11:44other country has a right to dictate what
00:11:47whatever form of government nation wants to
00:11:51have
00:11:51so these things are absolutely clear and and
00:11:55Chinese statement and they say the same thing about Pakistan, they
00:11:59would stand with Pakistan and they would
00:12:03support Pakistan sovereignty, so is the case
00:12:06with with Iran, they would support Iran sovereignty, because that is
00:12:10the the emerging world order that you stop
00:12:14madling in the affairs of other nations and mind your own
00:12:17business, so that is the idea
00:12:20of Chinese
00:12:24world order. which they
00:12:27are proposing and they are saying very very
00:12:31clearly to the rest the world and for the Americans
00:12:34it is clear indication that
00:12:37the that the lines are drawn, they cannot cross them, and I
00:12:40think all these matters will be discussed in Washington
00:12:44when President Shing Ping meets president Trump on the
00:12:4824th of this month, so this remains to be seen
00:12:51that how it actually plays out, but the message is absolutely. that
00:12:55they will not let Iran fall and this
00:12:59should be understood by everybody, not only in the
00:13:03region, but even in other parts the world,
00:13:07so if China is saying that well
00:13:22brings us to the end the first segment of today in the second. segment we are going
00:13:26to understand what exactly artificial
00:13:29intelligence is up to. there was there was a
00:13:33purpose, guess behind creation of artificial intelligence
00:13:37to augment and expand the capability of human
00:13:41beings, but what about that scenario when
00:13:44autonomous artificial intelligence crosses
00:13:47boundaries which is been set by the creators.
00:13:51now there is one example of that, google has
00:13:55confessed that its gemini model has breached the system of
00:13:59three rail companies a cyber security
00:14:03test
00:14:04now that cyber security test was actually designed
00:14:07against the fake or
00:14:11something that has been made up the ficticious
00:14:14companies but they got the internet access and they
00:14:18breached the system the three rail companies
00:14:22now this brings us to number of very important
00:14:25questions, there are also a number of alarming statements which have been
00:14:29made by leading giants of this particular industry regarding
00:14:33as to what sort of threats artificial intelligence is posing right
00:14:37now and in the longer run, especially when you talk about a decades
00:14:41time what it could potentially do with the
00:14:45humanity generally. this important subject of for
00:14:49discussion for that we are honored to being joined by Mr. Ahmed Manzor, he is a
00:14:52technologist. Manzor, Thank you very much for being with us
00:14:56on the show tonight, really appreciate that. First of
00:14:59all, starting with this question,
00:15:03now the artificial intelligence is created for a purpose, what I
00:15:07understand is it's to augment and expand or assist the
00:15:11human capabilities in order to help humans
00:15:14out, but what about a more autonomous
00:15:18model that actually surpasses or goes
00:15:21beyond the boundaries which have been set by the creators?
00:15:26sir, first of all thank you for having me here, basically
00:15:29whenever you build any technology ever, ever, it
00:15:33comes with the good things, but it came also with the bad things as well.
00:15:37because when you are augmented anything, you are
00:15:40basically expanding anything, so there there
00:15:44are the formulas behind it, so those formulas need to be broken
00:15:48as well to build the new formulas, you always remember that
00:15:52right, so in AI, this is the same thing, they basically now
00:15:56many companies are experimenting, so they
00:15:59build the companies like two three companies and something previously anthropic
00:16:03done that, now gemini do that and the open AI is also doing that.
00:16:08so what's going on, they are experimenting how to build the
00:16:11company first and that is obviously experimenting company and
00:16:15then break the rules, they made
00:16:19AI to break the rules come up in that that is
00:16:21basically in you have heard of it,
00:16:25AI blackmailing the employees as well,
00:16:29blackmailing the boss as well, because it have lot
00:16:32of its data with it, so yes it's for
00:16:36good but l on when we are making policies anything like the
00:16:40cyber security like AI like so we need to break those things
00:16:44as well so we need to check that how beyond it will go to make the
00:16:47best policies as well when we
00:16:51specify talk about that anthropic CEO who has
00:16:55called for a collective slow down to ensure safeguards keep pace
00:16:59with the development also there are number
00:17:03of leading figures from these leading companies they have come up
00:17:07with sort of warning or the
00:17:10other, in what perspective do you actually analyze
00:17:13those warning at the same time and intender with
00:17:17that, keep on experimenting and trying to breach whatever the
00:17:21rules they have created that you just already alluded to?
00:17:24basically I look into it like this, like if we want to make
00:17:28policies, obviously they are right in some
00:17:31way, not like it's going to be done,
00:17:35AI will do something bad tomorrow. but
00:17:39we like in the experimenting thing and all the big
00:17:43figures are saying something
00:17:44that the AI going even though some person also said that in the next 10 years
00:17:48human will all the human will die so that is
00:17:51also an statement is there but what does it
00:17:55mean it means you need to make good policies for that like Pakistan is already
00:17:59doing it so we are these two years basically
00:18:032026 and 2027 if you heard of it there are a lot of
00:18:07company lot of countries going to build
00:18:10policies over technology so they can use technology more
00:18:14productively so this is not something that like there
00:18:18is an act come from european union act
00:18:212026 so all the platforms going to use AI very
00:18:25ethically when they put some AI engine in between
00:18:29between person and the other social
00:18:33platform so what does it mean it means when uh
00:18:37anything goes online, it will go through that engine, so it will
00:18:41if that image, that video made by
00:18:45AI, it will market like this build with the
00:18:48AI.
00:18:52Mr. Ahmed, can you hear me please? yeah, now yeah, now artificial
00:18:56intelligence is not working at the moment because I had been trying to interject
00:19:00from last few moments, I I hope they they haven't
00:19:04taken over the system that are using right now ' what
00:19:07about that particular scenario? i don't
00:19:11exactly remember the name of that person who has just given us a warning
00:19:15that artificial intelligence could become so lethal that it could
00:19:19actually led to the extinction of humanity,
00:19:23if that is what he had said or somewhat
00:19:26something like that, but that that that is quite
00:19:29alarming sort of a statement to give,
00:19:33everybody would
00:19:34be the person name is Jacob actually, he worked for anthropic
00:19:36i think. few years back statements? yeah,
00:19:40sorry. do you think it's responsible to give such type of
00:19:44statements? or are they are the supported by
00:19:47evidence? basically, always think like this
00:19:51is very irresponsible, this is something like same
00:19:55like when the pandemic goes goes on and everybody is want
00:19:58the vaccine of corona, there is some guy a scientist came up with the with the
00:20:02statement in the
00:20:04in the next two years all the people who got the corona vaccine will die.
00:20:08so this is this same kind of thing, think i i saw
00:20:12that like this, but we what we need to do, we need to
00:20:16understand, but at the same time, but at the same time, mr.
00:20:19ahmed, one last question, we have press with time, but
00:20:23at the same time there are bad things also happening, for instance google
00:20:27is accepted that it's geminie moral
00:20:30has breach the system of three rail companies in
00:20:34fact that cyber security test was intended on some
00:20:37ficticious companies with the internet access,
00:20:41it did bypass those boundaries or the rules which was said by the
00:20:45creators, at the same time there are number of actors which
00:20:49are using artificial intelligence for negative purposes, but
00:20:52at the same time the negative things are also happening, how to
00:20:56address those? basically again the same thing I
00:21:00was saying that we need to build up the policies, what we need to
00:21:03do, we need to give everybody the awareness about the AI, we
00:21:07need to give them the knowledge that how to also in that knowledge we
00:21:11need to tell them how to secure yourself, how to identify,
00:21:15this is a deep fake video, it's a deep audio, it's something that we
00:21:19need to understand understand all these things and we make other people to understand these
00:21:23things, that's why that's how can we
00:21:26make things more workable for us, because this is a productivity
00:21:30tool, we need to use it like it's our an
00:21:34assistant actually when the humans have a complete
00:21:37control, but what about a scenario that could be more
00:21:41alarming when the artificial intelligence become more autonomous
00:21:45and start doing things beyond those set rules by
00:21:48itself and that's particular precision or accuracy
00:21:51on the part of artificial artificial intelligence with more
00:21:55development, i think that is going to increase and i guess
00:21:59that is the real threat in this sort of a scenario,
00:22:36Pakistan's uh geography is very strategic, very
00:22:39important, it connects multiple regions, we are
00:22:43a higher platform a higher pedestal, this new
00:22:46phase in which we are now a mutual defense agreement.
00:22:50brings together two the Muslim world's strongest
00:22:54militaries and military capabilities which are Pakistan and Turkey Gaza
00:22:58situation is even more perturbing
00:23:02and it doesn't seem that I mean the the current
00:23:05sort of Israeli actions there, I mean they are not
00:23:09willing to relinquish sort the territory that they have
00:23:12occupied, if President Trump is able to get this kind of disarmament
00:23:16to take place in in in in Gaza. "this
00:23:20would be huge victory for him, but it's a matter of bringing bringing the
00:23:24Israeli Israel to the table who's already
00:23:28rejected this kind of us back road map, the fact that the Israeli
00:23:31military and government and militia and illegal
00:23:35settlers are kind of collaborating to take away these lands
00:23:38and occupy them and settle them with Israelis. these
00:23:42deployments are very demanding, both on the equipment and on the
00:23:45crew, there are roughly 4,800
00:23:49person personnel aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln if you include the ship's
00:23:53crew and the air wing um and they have been at sea now
00:23:57for uh nine months continuously Iran tends to play
00:24:01the game what
00:24:02we say they continue the dance the United States wants Iran to come to the
00:24:05table and they're making concessions to get Iran to come to the table and Iran's making
00:24:09demands for additional concessions to get to the
00:24:12table.
00:24:19where
00:25:39second thought about the fact that he is the man of
00:25:43peace
00:25:48you about about the Pakistan.
00:26:07"there is no longer any blind approval for Israeli
00:26:11policy, because the Americans have paid, American soldiers have died,
00:26:14hundreds have been injured and hurt, for what? for nothing.
00:26:18the military conflict came to
00:26:21draw, nobody won, neither side really wants
00:26:25to re-engage militarily, so it has
00:26:28evolved into economic conflict."
00:26:32as society we do stur a chance when it comes to platform accountability and
00:26:36specifically protecting our children online. the innocent people of
00:26:40afghanistan are the biggest victim of this application. they do not
00:26:44exist, let's be very frank, they do not exist in their mind, they do
00:26:48not exist in their
00:26:49policies.
00:29:34Prime Minister today, Alibaba, it was an extraordinary
00:29:38visit, this visit is about
00:29:41one message, Pakistan China relations are moving from
00:29:45friendship to
00:29:46investment. Hello,
00:29:50welcome, Pakistan TV is here in
00:29:53Beijing.
00:30:20You're watching Pakistan TV, this is Muhammad Abdullah Dar. Let's see the top
00:30:23stories.
00:30:40Deputy Prime Minister and Form Minister Isar has departed Islamabad for New
00:30:44York where he will accompany Prime Minister Shahbas Sharif from 21st to
00:30:4825th of September for the high level week the 81st session
00:30:51the United Nations General Assembly.