Google Speech-to-Text API Automatic Transcription (Chirp). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00negotiate and negotiations or
00:00:02of mediators, whatever you want
00:00:03to call them, the fact is there was something called the mecca courts,
00:00:07which you
00:00:08a reference, that said attack on one country is attack on
00:00:11three countries, and right now what we hear is that
00:00:15there are some noises coming from Turkey saying
00:00:18that, as you point out they have
00:00:21of bases there, maybe they will take some action, pakistan is retreated back
00:00:25to this idea that it will be mediator, and you're
00:00:29expressing that very... clearly, but that is at odds with the
00:00:32Mecca accords, so right now
00:00:36it is not, and I agree, it does not make sense for Pakistan
00:00:39or anybody else, Turkey, etc., to
00:00:43wait in militarily, all you do is have lot of body
00:00:46bags, but
00:00:48of collectively with the other countries around there, there could be
00:00:52imposed some sort of embargo where you
00:00:56basically cut off their supplies,
00:01:00terrible thing about that is that the who will suffer
00:01:04of of course the civilians, but in it it's the only other
00:01:07alternative
00:01:08of is international action by an overwhelming number of middle
00:01:12countries saying that we are not going to allow you to keep
00:01:16pressing this war against the interests of everyone in the region
00:01:20and everyone in the world, that would be inappropriate
00:01:24response, as i said it does not involve troops on the
00:01:26ground, that's rightly mentioned by UN. "we might be looking
00:01:30for an ideal world where we just want to know what needs to be
00:01:34done, but that is the very important thing, we have to work and see the
00:01:38practicality of this aspect that what can be done. thank you so much for raising such
00:01:42valid concerns and joining
00:01:43in view at seven, we were joined by Mr. anart who is a senior fellow
00:01:47a at center for international governance and innovations and he is a chairman of
00:01:51Asia analities. moving forward towards Mr. kava hasan, he is a non-resident
00:01:55fellow at middle east and north africa program at the
00:01:58Stimson center, he has..." has joined us from Brussels, welcome to the program
00:02:02views at seven Mr. Kava, what do you think given the reported
00:02:06attacks on the commercial shippings, what immediate measures are needed to protect
00:02:10the civilian vessels to maintain the freedom of navigation in the red sea
00:02:13and babal manda because civilians vessel should be
00:02:17secured in this warfare, civilians should not be be
00:02:20targeted, the commercial shipping should not be targeted, what
00:02:24is the issue, what needs to be done when it comes to the
00:02:28security of civilian vessels? "well, I think yes, I
00:02:32mean,
00:02:32of theoretically, absolutely, the civilian vessels should be
00:02:36protected also under international law,
00:02:40so there is no issue about that, I think there is no dispute about that,
00:02:44the issue is that, I mean in this war, there is
00:02:48not anymore any distinction between commercial shipping,
00:02:52civilian shipping and
00:02:54of otherwise, so that's why Iran is
00:02:58attacking any ships." that deems that they don't
00:03:01apply with their
00:03:03of policy and and you you have this US
00:03:07blockade of of Iranian ports which is also making it
00:03:11almost impossible for Iran at least from the state of
00:03:14Wormus to export oil
00:03:18a so theoretically yes it shouldn't be like that it should be
00:03:22like this and they should be protected and what could be done
00:03:25basically right now what US is doing is trying to help.
00:03:30ships containers getting oil and gas out
00:03:33of the state of hormers and and they they succeed in
00:03:36that partially not fully but partially,
00:03:39so I i think at this stage this is probably this is the maximum
00:03:43what could be done in terms of providing some
00:03:47free passage for for some vessels to to go through
00:03:50the the straight all right so can diplomatic
00:03:54engagement with the hoties address the security concern of Saudi Arabia or
00:03:58is the current traject? likely to remain
00:04:01primarily militarily, we need to be you know
00:04:05more concerned about the diplomatic aspects of it, because we have seen it is the
00:04:09exchange of very swear exchange of military between
00:04:13or among the countries, so what should be the
00:04:16diplomatic options? i think before talking about the diplomatic
00:04:20option, i think you spoke about the military dynamics on the
00:04:24ground and in the sea, i think that's more it
00:04:28all points to one direction. namely further escalation and and
00:04:31quite heavy escalation because Saudi Arabia cannot
00:04:35accept being attacked by his continuously even
00:04:39of Riad and even Mecca, so Saudi Arabia is responding
00:04:43by
00:04:45of of conducting you know air campaigns which of course they they you they haven't
00:04:49yet admitted because they can't
00:04:51of accept you know this this the current situation who
00:04:55these are they they are you know kind
00:04:58of over overconfident because
00:05:01they have managed to you basically
00:05:05take Maha and some other you know strategic places so they are
00:05:08overconfident and and and they they may...
00:05:12overreach at some point, but right now I expect further escalation
00:05:16because Saudi Arabia will respond, has no option but
00:05:19respond, and Hufis will not back
00:05:23down, and actually this this current situation is isn't, it's good for
00:05:26Iran even though maybe they they you not directly may be involved in
00:05:30it, but it serves the strategic interest of of Iran
00:05:34by keeping Saudi Arabia under pressure, by keeping the global
00:05:38economy under enormous pressure, now when it comes to the
00:05:41diplomatic ' offramp
00:05:44i'm not optimistic at all really in the short term
00:05:48because i don't think there is any any space any
00:05:52any opportunity for any even a common common ground
00:05:56between Saudi Arabia and which is at this particular stage for
00:05:59reasons that i mentioned over confidence and saudi need
00:06:03to it's not only you analyst
00:06:07across the globe are skeptic about this thing that there would
00:06:11be ds tions, but ultimately, ultimately,
00:06:15does the latest escalations demonstrate the limit to military only
00:06:18approach to Yemen or what would be the sustainable
00:06:21regional deescalation framework? we all
00:06:25know that the more actors are involved in it, the more
00:06:28complex this conflict is becoming, but what needs to be done when it
00:06:32comes to, I have already asked you about the diplomatic framework, I have already asked you about the
00:06:36diplomatic options, I have asked my other guest as well, what needs to be done, what can be done,
00:06:40what is the practical step, but should be done by the international institutions, by the
00:06:44neighboring countries, by the mediators, but can you
00:06:47please have a thought on, you share your thought
00:06:50about the regional framework, because we have seen the regional countries are
00:06:54becoming more stronger, more autonomous when it comes to their own decisions,
00:06:58so what should be the regional framework in this condition? well, i think the regional
00:07:02framework is
00:07:05when key countries would make clear to
00:07:08who is that both regional countries?
00:07:12international powers, us, european union and others, china included,
00:07:16if they they should make to hoothies that it's unacceptable that that they
00:07:20hold global
00:07:22economy, hostage, so
00:07:26that needs to be done, you need a coordinated diplomatic approach, but I don't see that
00:07:30happening right now, what is also needed is
00:07:34the question is to what extent Pakistan and Turkey will be ready to activate the
00:07:38Mecca agreement and and make clear to the hoosies that they
00:07:42will... interven
00:07:44you know because their advances, ultimately what what needs to be done,
00:07:48I think for diplomatic track to move on is that
00:07:52both sides or sides will come to an understanding that they
00:07:56need to deescalate because they have an interest in that, and that
00:07:59I don't, I mean that that arriving at that point,
00:08:02I don't see that happening right now, he is will not back down, Iran
00:08:06will not back down and this situation will continue at least
00:08:10through November 3rd until me. term elections, well then by
00:08:14then we'll see where we are, and then what will be the calculations
00:08:18of of of Iran of US of
00:08:22Hotis? so I'm sorry to disappoint with that, I
00:08:25don't have really you know a good answer for your very good
00:08:29question, we actually don't want the good answer, we want
00:08:33the realistic approach to the conflict to unfold to aware people about that, but
00:08:37we are so much thankful to you for joining in and sharing the
00:08:41unfiltered uns approach when it comes to the middle
00:08:44eastern conflict, we were joined by Mr. Kava Hasan who
00:08:47is a non-resident fellow at middle east and North Africa program at the
00:08:51Stimson Center, he has joined us to discuss about the latest escalations
00:08:55in the Middle East, so now moving forward towards another issue that is
00:08:58unfolding and moving forward a very unprecedent
00:09:02speed and we couldn't match that speed, that is artificial intelligence,
00:09:06artificial intelligence is entering new phase
00:09:09as leading AI companies face growing concern. about the speed
00:09:13and the control of increasingly powerful systems, routers reports
00:09:17that over a 10 day period in September concerns
00:09:21intensified after AI researchers raised warnings about the
00:09:25safety, AI agents reportedly bypass the safe guards,
00:09:29the security guards of this system, the AI system
00:09:33and some industry leaders called for the slower pace of
00:09:36development and at the same time governments and the companies remain
00:09:40focused on AI's economic and technology ological and strategic potential
00:09:44as well, because we have seen every other day, every
00:09:47day when we wake up there is another technology that is unfolding, there is another feature
00:09:51the same AI tool are
00:09:54using and it is moving forward to very
00:09:58unprecedent speed which human cannot match
00:10:02and one way or other
00:10:03it is bypassing the security,
00:10:05it is bypassing the norms and values as well and it is something very
00:10:09critical, still there are a lot of debates that is it ethical or... not
00:10:13few channels, few even media houses, few institutions
00:10:16banned and some actually are allowing you encouraging to use
00:10:20it, still it is moving forward to an unprecedent speed, but on the other hand we are
00:10:24discussing: about
00:10:25it cythical use or not, so to discuss about that, we are joined
00:10:28by Mr. Wim vandle, he is a founder and principal of
00:10:32integration capacity analysis, he has joined us from Belgium.
00:10:36Mr. Win, welcome to program views at 7, what do you think that
00:10:40our AI company is developing the systems faster than they can
00:10:43understand of control them or they are
00:10:47just trying to do one thing or other thing faster than their
00:10:51competitor, they are in this race and they're not looking for. the pace they are
00:10:55working on and they are not looking at the speed or the
00:10:59ethical or the you know practical or practical
00:11:03must say that ethical are the legal use of it, what do you
00:11:07think? good
00:11:09evening, um, yes, i believe what
00:11:13what the whole evolution is showing that the capability
00:11:17of AI is going much faster than our ability to
00:11:20hold it together, to direct it and to control it, and
00:11:25given all these examples, so it's not about
00:11:28AGI or the system becoming autonomous, it's actually more
00:11:32simple, the AI companies, the builders itself, they
00:11:35start admitting that they cannot fully monitor what they
00:11:38built, safety researches working
00:11:41out all kind of groups like
00:11:44the the example in Yemen where they wants to use the AI model
00:11:47for missile guidance so they cannot control who is
00:11:51using it for what anymore and even more since
00:11:55AI starts programming, developing itself, it's harder and harder
00:11:59to keep control of how it is developed and what
00:12:02it is being used for, and beyond that, as you also
00:12:05mentioned, the companies are very much under
00:12:09pressure for money, but also the governments that push them
00:12:12because they see there's a kind of race between nations,
00:12:16particularly China and the USA, so
00:12:20everybody is pushing it and nobody is actually
00:12:23thinking of how we can make sure that this AI
00:12:27is not doing things that we cannot control or that
00:12:31we don't know what for what is being used
00:12:35or so how realistic is the concern that increasingly autonomous AI
00:12:38agents could act beyond the human
00:12:41supervision? it's already happening, we we we
00:12:45know the examples of hugging phase and other
00:12:48examples where the the AI sut into
00:12:52another systems, it it looked in
00:12:55it looked at secrets there days before actually anyone saw
00:12:59it, so yeah
00:13:00it is already happening um and a part is that there is
00:13:04very little supervision and there was also nobody really
00:13:07anyone being held accountable or being punished for that for the kind
00:13:11of incident so so you could say that the race
00:13:15okay so what do you think that if AI
00:13:19systems can identify the vulnerabilities and interact with the
00:13:23computer networks independently? what safeguard mayors are
00:13:26needed before the development them? as you have already mentioned that they can
00:13:30already work and they are working without the human supervision, so what needs
00:13:34to be done while designing that program, what needs to be done while
00:13:38designing that system? uh, we we
00:13:42believe
00:13:42that the safegards that matter most are actually around the machine, so there's a
00:13:46lot of research being done, lot of technical kind of things to try to control these
00:13:50machines, to to manage them, to give rules that to do certain things, but
00:13:54I believe... that we have to look outside as well, so the first
00:13:58question would then be, what is AI actually for, what is the
00:14:01purpose, and and nobody actually, so the AI companies used to have
00:14:05this AI purpose in their charter, in the commitments, but they
00:14:09all neglated on that, and
00:14:11they always changed it when it became quite hard to keep it because of money
00:14:15pressure or because of competitive or because of government
00:14:18regulations, so we have to go back there and declare for
00:14:21each AI company and AI in generally, as a
00:14:25human uh global community kind of thing, what is
00:14:29AI for, what is the purpose, what can we use it for, what can we not use
00:14:33it for, and what we have developed in integration
00:14:37capacity is just exactly a way of measuring whether
00:14:41then companies and the AI itself,
00:14:44number one, they actually keep the commitments, but number
00:14:48two whether the use of it is actually beneficial for the
00:14:52greater community and for society. or it so
00:14:56what do you think does the growing competition between US and China make it harder for the
00:15:00companies and the governments to slow down the AI developments and how
00:15:03should be aib held responsible for that
00:15:07for harming the social norms the developers or moving forward
00:15:11to the with the unprecedent speed as it is not working under the
00:15:15human supervision so so
00:15:19regarding US and China yeah of course it makes it harder suddenly at
00:15:22the the the the shorter moment. that the short term, in the longer
00:15:26term it might change, because for the moment everything is competition
00:15:30and the the the great power rival is actually hitting up and AI
00:15:34is becoming kind of a... prominent and
00:15:38essential piece where both these countries believe they can have a competitive
00:15:42edge, but when you think about this, there's no state that actually has
00:15:46decifer edge and and AI will not also give it, so I don't think
00:15:49anyone can win this race, um, even to
00:15:53the opposite, it is quite possible that the machine will
00:15:56actually bankrupt countries or can even split
00:16:00its own society while trying to win, so the sooner that
00:16:04the countries. we are so thankful to you
00:16:08for joining in vz at7 and sharing your insight regarding the development
00:16:12and the pace on which AI is developing work mainly
00:16:16threatening human work as well or human
00:16:19manp as well and may be threatening the policies
00:16:23or the security and the safety the countries as well thank you so much
00:16:27we were joined by Mr. Wim van Larry he is a founder and principal of
00:16:31integration capacity analysis he has joined us from Belgium so now moving forward
00:16:35and one way we are just talking about AI talking about the emerging
00:16:39technologies, but on the other side the world we have
00:16:43seen the issues of same that were their centuries back,
00:16:47that were their decades back, that is the gender based violence. South Africa is
00:16:51facing renewed public anger over the violence against women
00:16:54after the bodies of nine women, women
00:16:57found in South Africa over the past
00:17:01two months and that's that's quite alarming, police are investigating whether the killings
00:17:05are connected, the deaths have triggered. the memory memorial
00:17:09runs, the protest, the stronger call for the actions, the protest
00:17:13by the civil society, the social media protest with the concerns also
00:17:17being raised about the policing, resources and effectiveness of existing myers
00:17:21against the gender based violence there. to discuss about that, we are
00:17:24joined by Dr. John. She is security analyst in Cape
00:17:28Town, South Africa. Dr. swart, welcome to program views at seven.
00:17:32What do you think that on one hand we are discussing about the emerging
00:17:36technology in the world? while on
00:17:38the other hand the gender based violence is there, why has the gender based
00:17:41violence remained such serious challenge in South Africa despite being
00:17:45declared as national disaster in
00:17:482025? yes, first of
00:17:51all, thank you very much for the invitation, it's really an honor to
00:17:55be speaking with you. um, so we must
00:17:59remember, first of all, the classification is not the same as
00:18:02implementation,
00:18:04you know, in South Africa, we are very
00:18:07good at talking, we have committees and meetings and
00:18:11workshops and we don't always implement
00:18:14things very well, so while this national disaster
00:18:18designation creates obligations for
00:18:22coordination and for reporting, it does not
00:18:26really change much on the ground, it doesn't change
00:18:28behavior, policing capacity or criminal
00:18:32justice outcomes, so we have already have
00:18:36substantial legislation, strategies
00:18:40and programs, but we must remember
00:18:43that the problem is systemic rather than a
00:18:47single policy or department failure.
00:18:51um, violence occurs, as we know across different
00:18:54social and economic environments
00:18:57and intimate partner or family violence
00:19:01is major component of this, but we also
00:19:04have predatory violence and this must may
00:19:08be case in terms of it being a serial killer, it
00:19:12looks like it, it hasn't been confirmed yet, sexual
00:19:16violence, gang violence, lot of a big
00:19:19problem in the area where in the province where i am,
00:19:23human trafficking and so on, so there's
00:19:27a different context that we need to look
00:19:30at, and the underlying social conditions
00:19:34are the first of those,
00:19:36the normal ation of violence is a big problem, exposure to
00:19:40violence from childhood, things like substance
00:19:44abuse, family, community breakdown,
00:19:48economic and social vulnerability, so where
00:19:52I would always avoid just
00:19:56talking about gender based violence as being
00:20:00caused by poverty, it's a lot wider than that, and just
00:20:04to give you an idea, um, our most recent crime
00:20:08report recorded more than 5000 murders
00:20:11in the first quarter of
00:20:132026-27 and that's
00:20:1657 per day or 34 per
00:20:20100 thousand um the population and that
00:20:24places South Africa and the fifth worst
00:20:28in the world after countries like Haiti, Ecuador,
00:20:32Jamaica and Andurus, so there's
00:20:36definitely a lot. that we can do still, but it needs to
00:20:40be implemented instead of just
00:20:42talking. that's that's very thoughtful of you that
00:20:46normalization of violence is actual problem which we have.
00:20:50seen in the developing countries, so considering the fact that the
00:20:53investigations are going on, are the limited police resources or investigation
00:20:57capacity contributing to the failure to prevent to solve such issue
00:21:01and what specific mayor authorities can take to make
00:21:05the situation make the place safer for the women, as you have raised
00:21:09lot of different you know angles of
00:21:12this this violence, these deaths, it can
00:21:15be due to the human trafficking, there there can be multiple reasons
00:21:19behind. that it could be coordinated as well,
00:21:21it could be serial killing as well, what what is the
00:21:25authority doing there, what are the you know how they are
00:21:29directed their resources towards a proper investigation of
00:21:33this, you know I must say it is such thing that
00:21:36it is, it is actual a national disaster that is impacting a vulnerable
00:21:40gender in the world, yes yes of course
00:21:44it is, it's it's really a big problem and you mention
00:21:48limited police resources and investigative
00:21:51capacity and whether that's the problem, and yes,
00:21:55it's a part of resources are a part the problem,
00:21:59but it's not the entire problem, so we know that police can't
00:22:03be everywhere, and investigators have got enormous
00:22:07case loads, we've got a problem with forensic
00:22:11backlogs, and intelligence and
00:22:14information sharing matter quite a big deal, and
00:22:18that is also often lacking. so we talking
00:22:22about investigation, of course that's evidence preservation,
00:22:25forensics, DNA, witness management, um,
00:22:29telephone evidence, intelligence analysis
00:22:33and so on, um, and I've also mentioned
00:22:36forensic capacity, that's very important, when you've got a
00:22:39backlock, you can't actually take um
00:22:43cases to court, so there's been delays
00:22:47of a couple of years, so... We
00:22:50also, I also need to stress that more resources does
00:22:54not mean automatically better policing, we
00:22:58need to allocate the resources properly, training
00:23:02and specialization has to take place, proper management,
00:23:06accountability, the data systems, and then
00:23:09interagency corporation as well, and and
00:23:13then lastly, to just conclude this
00:23:17answer of mine, we in deterrances. also very important,
00:23:21so criminals does not only respond to severe
00:23:25punishment, but it's the probability of being
00:23:28identified, arrested and prosecuted, that
00:23:32is more important than the sentence
00:23:34itself. no doubt about it, you have raised such
00:23:38w concern it is not about the resources, it is about the allocation of resources and especially
00:23:42the capacity building the law enforcement agencies
00:23:46when it comes to the gender based violence and when it comes to the women related.
00:23:50issues the proper investigation, the proper ways to
00:23:54deter this thing, to stop this thing, to investigate this thing, to stop
00:23:58this criminal act, which is actually national disaster
00:24:01all over the world, especially in the developing countries. thank you so much dr. swart
00:24:05for joining in and sharing your views with us, we were joined by Dr. John Swat, she is
00:24:09security analyst based in Cape Town, South Africa and we were discussing
00:24:13about the killing of nine women there, it could
00:24:16be due to multiple reasons, the investigations are going on,
00:24:20to detect the reason behind that and that is it from tonight's
00:24:24views at seven. In tonight's views at seven we have discussed about the Middle Eastern crisis, we
00:24:28have discussed about the technological crisis, the AI at its
00:24:31unprecedent speed, and on one way we and we are moving forward
00:24:35towards the emerging technology, we are moving towards
00:24:37the other planets, but on the other hand, we are still living in
00:24:41stoneage where we have seen that women are facing gender based
00:24:44violence, vulnerable segment, a vulnerable gender is
00:24:48more vulnerable. in this cruel world, so that is it, this is your host
00:24:52mhar qureishi, signing off, keep watching Pakistan
00:24:55TV.
00:25:33Modi regime is employing strong arm tactics to stifle free
00:25:36media in occupied Jammu and Kashmir.
00:25:40Journalists in occupied region are harassed and booked in
00:25:43fabricated cases for reporting truth. The
00:25:47victimization of journalists in occupied. Jammu and Kashmir has
00:25:51increased manifold since 5th August
00:25:532019. Modi regime is using
00:25:57notorious agencies like nia and sia to raid
00:26:01journalists homes in. occupied Jammu and
00:26:03Kashmir International Community must act to
00:26:07protect independent media in occupied Jammu and
00:26:10Kashmir.
00:30:19Good evening, assalamualaikum, you're watching Pakistan TV, I'm Faham Bangish
00:30:23with the headline news for this
00:30:24hour.
00:30:41Deputy prime minister and foreign minister Sagdat Depart Islamabad for New York
00:30:45where he will accompany Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif from 21st to
00:30:4925th of September for the high level week, the 81st
00:30:52session the UN General
00:30:54Assembly.