Google Speech-to-Text API Automatic Transcription (Chirp). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:03When you are born on Iranian soil, something is born with
00:00:07of you, the belief that a
00:00:08of homeland is not merely a place to live, but sometimes a place you
00:00:12must be willing to die for. The roots of this belief can be found
00:00:15even in the
00:00:16of legends of Iran, and perhaps no legend expresses it more powerfully
00:00:20of than in the story of Arash. After the war between Iran
00:00:24of and Turan, it is decided that Iran's new frontier will be
00:00:27determined by the flight of a single arrow. Arash stands at
00:00:31top Mount Damavand. He puts all his strength, all his
00:00:35of life into the arrow and releases it. Arash dies, but the
00:00:38arrow flies on. Where did it land? To find the answer, we
00:00:42must leave legend behind and enter history. 3:30
00:00:46BC. Alexander had crushed nearly every major power in his
00:00:50path and was advancing toward Presepolus. At the Persian
00:00:54gate, Ario Barzanis stood with around 700 warriors
00:00:58against an army of more than 1000. They knew that if they
00:01:01resisted, they would die, but they chose an honorable death over
00:01:05life under domination. They stopped Alexander's first assault
00:01:09and forced him to retreat, and for the generations that followed, they
00:01:13left behind a
00:01:14of legacy. Resistance means knowing that you may lose your life,
00:01:18yet refusing to let an enemy cross your land without paying a
00:01:21price. Two centuries later, this time Rome came from the
00:01:25west. In 53 BC, Crasses invaded Parthian
00:01:28territory with a vast army, facing
00:01:31of him stood young commander, Sirena, with his mounted archers and
00:01:35a thousand camels carrying an endless supply of arrows, Sirena
00:01:39filled the skies with a storm of arrows. The Roman army suffered
00:01:43one
00:01:43of the
00:01:44in most devastating defeats in its history, but for Iranians,
00:01:47land is not the only frontier. The sea is a
00:01:51of frontier too. At the beginning
00:01:52of the 16th century, the Portuguese seized Hormus, a
00:01:56small island at the entrance to the Persian Gulf, whose control... met
00:02:00command over one
00:02:01of the most important trade roots between east and west. They built
00:02:05fortresses, they brought cannons, and they remained for more than a
00:02:08century. In
00:02:10of 1622, Iranian forces under the command of Imam Koli
00:02:14Khan, reached Hormus. After a hard fought siege,
00:02:17Portuguese power in Hormus was broken and the island was
00:02:21retaken, but the Persian Gulf never
00:02:24disappeared from the
00:02:28of in ambitions of colonial powers. In 1915, British force. occupied Boucher
00:02:31against an army backed by warships, artillery, and the power of
00:02:35one
00:02:35of the world's greatest empires, the people of southern Iran stood with
00:02:39simple rifles. Their resistance was led by a man named
00:02:43Rais Ali Delvari. During the months of occupation, he
00:02:47organized the resistance
00:02:48of the people of Tangistan. For Rais Ali, the question was
00:02:52never how many soldiers stood on either side. The principle was
00:02:56simple: Iranian soil is not negotiable, even if
00:03:00defending it costs your life. Rais Ali was eventually martered
00:03:04in that struggle. September 3rd, the anniversary of his
00:03:07of marterdom is commemorated in Iran as the national day of struggle
00:03:11against British colonialism, but the resistance did not end with his
00:03:15death. Years later, British forces
00:03:18of finally in left
00:03:19of Bucher, yet the ambitions of
00:03:20in foreign powers toward Iran did not end
00:03:23there. Because Iran also had
00:03:27oil. For
00:03:28of decades, much of Iran's oil industry. remained under the influence of a British
00:03:32company, until 1951, Mohammed Mosadeg
00:03:36of stood against threats, political pressure and
00:03:38of economic pressure and declared,
00:03:41of Iran's oil must belong to Iran. The oil industry was
00:03:44nationalized, two years later, a coup backed directly by the
00:03:48United States and Britain overthrew his
00:03:51of government. Mosadeg was removed from power and spent the remaining years
00:03:54of his life in imprisonment and house arrest, but one demand
00:03:58could no longer be erased. Iran's wealth must remain in
00:04:02Iranian hands, land, water,
00:04:06oil, but now the issue is no longer only land,
00:04:10water, or oil, it is something greater than all
00:04:13of them, independence. The question of who has the right to decide
00:04:17Iran's future. In June, 2025, the United
00:04:20States directly attacked Iran's nuclear facilities, and since
00:04:24February 2026, Iran has been engaged in direct
00:04:28military confrontation. the United States and Israel. For
00:04:32months, military and economic pressure has continued, but
00:04:35Iran has never been willing to trade its independence for temporary
00:04:39peace. Bows, arrows and horses have given way to
00:04:42launchers, missiles, tanks,
00:04:46drones and fighter jets, but the
00:04:50blood of Arash still runs through Iranian veins.
00:04:54And now, let us return to the same question. Where did Arasha's arrow
00:04:58land? The... flew more than a thousand
00:05:01a kilometers all the way to the banks
00:05:03of the Axis River. Arash lost his
00:05:06life, but he did not allow the enemy to decide
00:05:09Iran's fate. And that legacy
00:05:13passed from one generation to the next. An
00:05:16Iranian may give his life for his homeland and independence, but he
00:05:20will never surrender their fate
00:05:22to foreign
00:05:23power.
00:06:00Hello and welcome to this special edition of break summit coverage, I'm
00:06:04killed Tehran: the 18th break summit takes place in
00:06:07September 12 to 13 in New Delhi, this a special episode is a
00:06:11joined show where we bring... together distinguished guests from Iran and India
00:06:15to share their perspectives on this landmark gathering, together with
00:06:19my colleague Diksa Bisla from Weon TV in New Delhi, we will
00:06:22co-present you the special panel discussion today. For
00:06:26Tehran, this year summit comes a particularly important
00:06:30moment when the global economy faces various headwinds and growing
00:06:34pressure on the international order. What do we expect from this
00:06:38year's summit? We are pleased to be joined in our Tehran studio with Ahmed
00:06:42Soleh. global economy analyst and banking advisor, we will
00:06:46also be joined with Paul Cochraine, independent journalist whose work
00:06:50has appeared in the middle east eye and
00:06:52routers.
00:06:58now let's hand over to Weon and welcome my colleague from New
00:07:02Delhi, Diksha Bisla, over to you. Thanks Kirash, I'm Diksa
00:07:05Bisla from New Delhi, and yeah, sure indeed, under India's chairmanship, the
00:07:09summit is centered on resilience, innovation. cooperation and
00:07:13sustainability and just like you said a time when the global
00:07:17economy is facing growing uncertainties and challenges
00:07:21so okay rash what does Iran expect from bricks 2026? let me
00:07:24hand it over to you and here what the panel guests in Tehran have to
00:07:28say. now thanks to our colleagues from Weon and New
00:07:31Delhi and now let's get into our discussion. I'm now
00:07:35joined by Ahmed Sulihi, a global economy analyst and
00:07:39a banking advisor. thank you so much Mr. Salhi for joining me. on this
00:07:43edition of our program, my first question to you is to what
00:07:47extent does Iran use bricks as a strategy to reduce the
00:07:51US influence uh be it's economic and
00:07:54geopolitical uh when it comes to the international global
00:07:57economy. You see, after 2008 where the
00:08:01Americans and Federal Reserve printed a great deal of money out of thin
00:08:05air 1.25 trillion dollars to solve the problems in the
00:08:09global uh crisis.
00:08:12the Chinese took the final decision that they do not have any chance to
00:08:16win the global trade and economy on the
00:08:20same platforms of Briton boots era, so they decided
00:08:24to establish bricks in 2009, the first head of a state summit
00:08:28was take place was taken place at that time, for ound
00:08:32the whole scenario started from 2011 when there
00:08:36was an embargo on the oil sector and the central bank of
00:08:39Iran, at that time the trade was going, the ships were trans
00:08:44were were transferring the oil to South Korea to India, other
00:08:47countries, so Iran was forced to
00:08:50use alternative ways
00:08:53for banking
00:08:56transactions, because the all was going to soul was going
00:09:00to New Delhi and there was an embargo on the central bank of
00:09:04Iran, so Iran was not benefiting
00:09:07the uh swift and dollar system,
00:09:11so iron decided to to import as the
00:09:15bter form some goods and material from South Korea
00:09:18and from India, this was the first attempt by
00:09:22Iran, not as a choice, but as an impulsion and as
00:09:25must for the country, because
00:09:27there was an embargo. after that some other
00:09:30important incidents took place in the world, for example the Ukraine
00:09:34war, the Ukraine war transf
00:09:38transformed everything transformationally, why?
00:09:41because "china was trying for four decades to become an
00:09:45alliance, to go an alliance with europe and to change
00:09:49europe, europe as the main exporting destinations of
00:09:53Chinese goods and material, but what happened in the eastern European, the Ukraine
00:09:57war actually filed the
00:10:00whole thing for the Europeans, they are not going to
00:10:03be an alliance an alliance with Chinese anymore,
00:10:07so the scenario cape or or
00:10:11got more more speed. Iran was joining to breaks after
00:10:15that time and also some other countries like Saudi Arabia
00:10:18or Indonesia like the other countries United Arab Ermits
00:10:22and others - "and it was at that
00:10:26time that Russia was also sanctioned, this is the
00:10:30second member to the new club the sanction
00:10:32countries. Let me give you some direct quotations from Donald
00:10:36Trump in in September 2024, the New York Economic
00:10:40Club, when he was asked about the sanctions about Iran and
00:10:44Russia, he said that, I'm a user of sanctions, I know sanctions better than
00:10:48any other politician in United States, but you have to put the sanctions
00:10:52and take them off as quickly as possible." because if you
00:10:55don't do that uh, there will be some questions about
00:10:59the role the dollar as the world currency, this these are
00:11:03direct quotations from Donald Trump and he said
00:11:05that it will kill our
00:11:09dollar and everything that the dollar represents, these are very
00:11:13important sentences and he said that losing the
00:11:16dollar is equivalent for United States to losing a war
00:11:20and it it makes us a third world country, a third
00:11:24world country. country and China is out there to replace its
00:11:28uan uh with our dollar in these sanction
00:11:32countries, so what happened for Iran is that after the Ukraine
00:11:35war and when Russia was joining was joined to the club the
00:11:39sanction countries, there was an establishment for
00:11:43corresponding agreements, the formal banking relations
00:11:46between Russian to Russian biggest banks and some
00:11:50Iranian banks, it was maybe
00:11:54I can't we can say after 80 years the bertonwoods and
00:11:58the swift global system, it was the first attempts
00:12:02totally alternative to the swift system, and now Iran
00:12:06is doing trade with russia a formal
00:12:09way with corresponding agreements between the banks, but at the
00:12:13same time from 2008, 2011 when the sanction
00:12:17was in place, as I said with India, with South Korea
00:12:21and with China, Iran also started to do... some
00:12:25way of barter, it means that the goods and material are are being exported from
00:12:29iran to these countries, and instead, since Iran is
00:12:33not benefiting the swift global system, Iran has to
00:12:37import some materials and goods and materials from these countries, so
00:12:41this is the foundation of dedollarization in
00:12:45the world, so when other countries were watching this
00:12:48scenario or what is taking place a
00:12:51prototype scale, not in laboratory.
00:12:55not in theoretical, not in universities, but in place for a for a
00:12:59country with more than 100 billion dollars of annual
00:13:03trade, and after after 13 years we are
00:13:06seeing that on the point of dedollarization, I'm going to come back to you,
00:13:10Mr., for now, let's take a look at this simple
00:13:14question that we are going to be asking, why does
00:13:18bricks worry the United States, that's for three different
00:13:22reasons, bricks is trying to reduce dependence on the doll. like
00:13:25indoor national currencies. b) is bricks could make
00:13:29us sanctions less effective. this is particularly important for Iran and
00:13:33Russia.
00:13:34and the last one is most important, bricks represents a broader
00:13:38challenge to a US centered world order advocating for a
00:13:41more multipolar international system. and that brings me to the second
00:13:45question that you were actually getting into: dedollarization, could
00:13:49Iran's energy resources give its
00:13:53significant leverage when? comes to break's efforts to reduce
00:13:56dependence on the dollar? if you want to count the
00:14:00pillars the dollar hegemony, the dollar
00:14:03empire, i can count four these pillars, the
00:14:06first one is the trade of oil, which
00:14:10is the dominant amount of trade in the
00:14:14world, the second is the reserves the central banks, the third one
00:14:18is the wto and international trade organization, and the
00:14:21fourth one is the IMF world bank which
00:14:25are the regulators and they try to regulate and giving
00:14:29loans and etc. in the form of your dollar. so petrol dollar
00:14:33which was presented first in 1973 is
00:14:37now playing a significant role and
00:14:39since uh
00:14:41china's a strategy in independence
00:14:45of food and it's a strategy
00:14:48in independence of energy without being
00:14:51dependent on the allied countries with united states. an important
00:14:55issue for the Chinese, so they have been importing the oil from
00:14:59Iran from the day one, the sanctions on the central bank
00:15:02and the export of oil of oil
00:15:05of Iran were implemented, so the point is that in in the
00:15:09last 13 years over a trillion dollars of
00:15:12transactions, mainly oil have been done between Iran and
00:15:16China, and again this was monitored by
00:15:19other countries, so after China
00:15:23introduced BRI. builton road initiatives because this is similar
00:15:27plan to marshall plan, but uh 30 times
00:15:31bigger if if even the equivalent value of dollar,
00:15:34yeah it is, it is still 30. times bigger than the marshall
00:15:38plan, so China is implementing projects in more than
00:15:42200, in more than 120 countries throughout the world in
00:15:46Chinese Yuan, so they are, if it is in the form of investment
00:15:50or if it is in the form of finance, these countries have to pay back
00:15:54the money to China in four or five years in the form of
00:15:57Yuan, so suddenly we saw that Saudi Arabia as one the
00:16:01biggest export of oil, came to the stage and said, okay, I'm going to
00:16:05export oil to China. with the help of
00:16:09UN, so this was the second move in the oil
00:16:12trade arena in the world, and now Rose
00:16:16Neft in Russia, other countries, other companies are selling and receiving
00:16:20oil without using the dollar, and if this
00:16:23pillar of dollar is damage, which is under significant
00:16:27impact, there would be big questions on
00:16:31dollar, that is my third and final question to you, Mr. Sal, more
00:16:35countries as it seems, and as you just... it or adopting trade
00:16:39policies to line up with each other and and the global south
00:16:43in particular to reduce the US influence and
00:16:46interference. the question that I have is will increase trade
00:16:50among these members lead to less and less trade with the US
00:16:54and more trade with countries like China. Definitely
00:16:57yes. 40 years ago United States was
00:17:01exporting 25 to 30% of manuf manufacturing
00:17:04products globally, but now it is. it's decreased to
00:17:0815%, instead China is increased from 15% to 25 to
00:17:1230% of manufacturing products in the world, as Joseph said
00:17:16also the prosperity of Europe was on two main
00:17:20factors, first the cheap energy from Russia, and
00:17:24second the industrial industrial demand from
00:17:27China, which none them exist now, because these
00:17:31two countries are are significantly exchanging energy and
00:17:34industrial equipments with each other and
00:17:37China um has played a significant role because
00:17:41it has the currency swap agreement with more than 60 countries in the world
00:17:45and in 2023 in the form of foreign
00:17:48transactions uh the share of dollar was less than the
00:17:52share of Chinese total transactions in other
00:17:56currencies rather than dollar in 2023,
00:18:00so it doesn't mean that dollar is going to crash or something like
00:18:03that
00:18:04in in in near future, but we can definitely say: even in the
00:18:08mainstream media like BBC, the are documentaries that
00:18:11says in in the next 10 years something
00:18:13like that, the role of dollar will be significantly
00:18:17lower and with it will not be the hegemonic currency
00:18:21anymore, taking into account that in 2013 there was a
00:18:25publication by national intelligence council, it was it is
00:18:28a well-known think tank in united states a
00:18:32170 pages
00:18:35publication with t with the
00:18:38title of global global trend 2030, it
00:18:42says that how the world would look like in 2030, one the mega
00:18:45trend is that there will not be any hegemonic power and
00:18:49power will shift to networks and collations a multipolar
00:18:53world, and without that breaks is one the samples these
00:18:56coalitions and networks. ahmad, global economy analyst and
00:19:00banking advisor, thank you so much for your time, thank
00:19:02you for
00:19:04having.
00:19:30As the presidency nation of this year's brick summit, I wonder
00:19:34how India understands the role of bricks in emerging
00:19:38international order. Now let's turn to Weon's studio and get the
00:19:42perspectives from the guests in New Delhi.
00:19:45Thanks Kirash. I think our guests here must have profound insights to share and
00:19:49let's get to the discussion here in New
00:19:51Delhi.
00:20:22Joining me in the view on studio are two crucial voices from India who will help us
00:20:26understand what to expect from the upcoming 18th break summit which gets
00:20:29underway this september from 12 to 13th right here in New
00:20:33Delhi. First up, I have with me Ambassador Vivekru, former Indian
00:20:37amba ambassador to Afghanistan, Myanmar and Thailand as well as the
00:20:40former secretary for the Ministry of External Affairs. Ambassador Kaju, thank you so
00:20:44much for making time for us. Thank you very much for inviting me. We
00:20:48also have with us Dr. Tara karta, former director of national security council
00:20:52secretariat and former senior fellow at the US Institute of
00:20:56Peace. Dr. Karta is always a pleasure to have you with us. Thank you. Thank
00:20:59you. Now before we talk about the emerging world order,
00:21:03it's also important to acknowledge that the world order that we new the existing
00:21:07world order, it is under immense train and this new architecture is just not
00:21:11yet crystallized yet. So in this era of uncertainty, what would you say
00:21:15ambassador Kajo would you constitute as a success at this year's brick
00:21:18summit? that there is moment of deep,
00:21:22there is moment of deep difficulty and there are these two
00:21:26wars waging in the first requirement is to end
00:21:30this these wars and there it's
00:21:34also moment of great contention and
00:21:37for bricks it is time to reconcile these
00:21:41contentions. dr. karta, we understand that the forgable that
00:21:44India is using toum define the theme of this year's brick
00:21:48summit, it is building on resilience, innovation, cooperation and
00:21:52sustainability. now we understand that the vocabulary seems to focus
00:21:56on areas which are relatively broad, but also deliberately non
00:22:00ideological here. yeah, do you think that would also allow the member states to
00:22:04find you ways to compartmentalize their disagreements or rather to
00:22:08prevent disagreements in one theater from you know affecting their views
00:22:12in from agreeing on the other aspects that will be discussed at breaks this
00:22:16time? i think that's a very good point. yeah, i think
00:22:19it it all everyone, nobody can disagree on this that you need
00:22:23you know resilience, you need innovation, all the rest of it, that's not someone anyone can say, no we
00:22:26should not, so that works, also see the whole theme
00:22:30which the India is trying to push is that this is people centering, it
00:22:34should matter to the people, right now if you ask the average person
00:22:38on the street what is bricks, nobody has any idea, you have to change
00:22:42that, you have to bring that effect that bricks mattered that it made
00:22:46this change which is going to make your life better across all
00:22:50these countries and i think that is where we are working from and
00:22:53i really strongly believe in that because as you said in the
00:22:57world order it's a complete collapse the value
00:23:01system, there is morality, there's no rules, there's no
00:23:04values, so somehow to bring that back is to bring back
00:23:08people's belief in the system. absolutely, well said dr.
00:23:12karta, and we understand that india's position within bricks is also pretty
00:23:15unique because we are non-western in our orientation but also not anti.
00:23:20west and India has made it clear time and again, but there
00:23:24is also this perception about bricks that it is uh, it
00:23:28is there to challenge the western hegemony or it is anti-west in certain
00:23:31aspects, how do you think India is going to walk this tight trope? i think
00:23:35India is never looked upon bricks and its
00:23:38participation in bricks as being
00:23:41anti-waste, it is always considered
00:23:45itself to be part of a grouping, and if you go
00:23:49back to... "the origins of bricks, it was a
00:23:53time when these countries were called emerging
00:23:56economies, now of course the scene has changed
00:24:00entirely, but it has not changed for
00:24:03India in as much as
00:24:06it is, that India is directing
00:24:09itself a manner as to
00:24:12challenge the existing,
00:24:16the existing great powers the world and the..." "the
00:24:20most substantial power in the world today still remains the United
00:24:24States, so its message has always been that all
00:24:27segments the world and all segments
00:24:31of great powers must cooperate and
00:24:35that is, I think the essential and
00:24:39underlying theme that India will try to push at
00:24:42this summit, right ambassador Kajo, but when
00:24:46Brexit started, of course is when brexit started?" " of course that was
00:24:50the defining principle, but now as we have an expanded grouping, we have
00:24:54multiple member states which have conflicting threat perceptions, but also
00:24:58conflicting interests which are playing out. do you think this expansion is also
00:25:02perhaps come at the cost of coherence here, which we also saw play out in the
00:25:06may foreign ministers meeting where we were not able to reach a consensus on the
00:25:09declaration about then? i think you're right on
00:25:13that, mean the expansion, in fact i think a lot of it was
00:25:17against India's advice that we should remain a... first build up
00:25:21the basic bricks, but having said
00:25:24that, you have to expand or become irrelevant,
00:25:28you can't just remain,
00:25:29you know these four countries, but the problem is not so much the expansion
00:25:33as the fact that there are countries within who are fighting each other, that
00:25:36is a problem and that is as you know where the thing lies, on being
00:25:40anti-western i i really don't see where this is coming from, i think it's
00:25:44an overdone threat perception from the west, because
00:25:48mean consider that china's biggest trading partners the US and these are the biggest
00:25:52economies, our largest trading partner is either, it's
00:25:56sort of between china and and and the US so that doesn't even
00:26:00arise and I think a state... table bricks
00:26:03economy is beneficial
00:26:05to the west because we are the markets. Dr. K,
00:26:09we've just come out the SEO summit in Bishkek and there is major overlap when we
00:26:13look at the member states which are there, we have India, we have Russia, of course Iran
00:26:17and China are also going to be in New Delhi a few days time, do you think that
00:26:21Bishkek also gave us a preview the kind of consensus that we can have at
00:26:25Bricks, but also the point of divergence that can drop up?
00:26:28I think those diversions are unfortunately going to be inevitable.
00:26:32I mean there are entirely different perceptions on what Iran is doing,
00:26:36obviously the UAE etc. in Russia,
00:26:39Russia, and if you look at the voting patterns for instance at the UN,
00:26:43Russia and China vote differently and we the rest of
00:26:47bricks actually quite votes either abstens or votes differently, so there is a
00:26:51problem there, but I think the the overall thrust of
00:26:55bricks at least as far as India's concerned and we saw it in Sco is
00:26:59that this war should end, all both Ukraine. as well
00:27:03as Iran, but we did also say significantly that
00:27:06we would like to open new trade, not new trade roots, but
00:27:10broden the trade basket, so if that is going to happen,
00:27:14I think our trade was about 17 billion, now it's about
00:27:18one billion, so it's a huge drop, and that's not good for
00:27:22us, basmati exports for instance, it was mainly to Iran, all that is
00:27:26not good for us, so we really want this war to
00:27:29stop, and Iran is I think recently said that well. come Indian
00:27:33mediation, I don't think we are going to go that far, if you do great, I
00:27:37mean, but at the moment no, but this war has to end, in
00:27:41that case bricks actually becomes
00:27:45an organization to contend with. I hear you, Dr. Karta, and
00:27:48now ambassador Kaju, we understand that the west Asia conflict, it is going to
00:27:52crop up big time at the brick summit as well, and now we have Iran, Saudi
00:27:56Arabia and UAE, they will all be sitting at the same table, and given
00:28:00what we saw happen in May. the bricks foreign ministers
00:28:03meeting, we couldn't reach a consensus, we've discussed that, but now
00:28:07um, what can India realistically get the members to agree upon, that would you
00:28:11lead the conversation, lead the dialogue ahead? i think
00:28:15the basic thrust should be an agreement that
00:28:19peace is essential for the region and the world and
00:28:23that this war must end, now the difficulty is
00:28:27that the two the
00:28:30billigerants not going to be there in the
00:28:33room,
00:28:36yes, Saudi Arabia and the
00:28:39UAE and Iran have different perceptions about this
00:28:43war, and it will be a test for Indian
00:28:46diplomacy to try to reconcile their
00:28:50interests and if it succeeds it will be a great
00:28:53success. also understand that if you can't leverage
00:28:57that against the current geopolitical climate or against and can have some
00:29:00actionable change, it just that a statistic now Dr.
00:29:04Karta, how do you reckon that economic and demographic heft that we
00:29:08have here with the grouping, it can convert into actual geopolitical influence at
00:29:12this particular time? see, if you
00:29:16look at the actual data on the ground, bricks intra bricks trade is
00:29:19grown, there's no doubt about that, but the main driver is
00:29:22China, the second driver is India,
00:29:26now you bring that lower even further and you look at the actual ability
00:29:30to trade with China is it. pretty difficult, there are non tariff
00:29:34barriers, there are well say selective application
00:29:38of rules, all that goes on, so Indian traders, at least, I don't about the
00:29:41others, find it difficult to export to China, so you have to
00:29:45follow in that case the brick spirit, which is
00:29:49to open up trade, when you open up trade, then you have
00:29:52heft, because there is no way any of us can compete with
00:29:56China, they are the biggest par, so I honestly,
00:30:00I would think it would be a country. as big and as with
00:30:04so many decades of civilization should understand this that
00:30:07it pays to open up for trade and if you do that then
00:30:11it will start getting somewhere right now
00:30:13it is it's a bit one way and
00:30:16you know some someone like say for example south africa they are they
00:30:20have huge amount of exports to China and that they have actually
00:30:24export surplus which is great for them but for us
00:30:27it's the other way around there's a huge deficit so we need to work on
00:30:31that I think.
00:30:32I think it's not only the quantum of trade, it's also the nature of
00:30:36trade. China is a manufacturing
00:30:40country, it has to realize that it can't
00:30:43remain the only major manufacturing
00:30:47country in bricks. Other countries to.