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00:00:00an increase of just over 3% compared to
00:00:03the initial projection released back in May. The weight of the fruits
00:00:06should offset the premature fall of the trees. And how is
00:00:10the incidence of greening in the orchards? Guilherme Rodrigues, manager of the
00:00:14Crop Estimate survey at Funde Citrus, talks to us.
00:00:18We also talk about the expectation for coffee
00:00:21production. All this and much more. Rural Record News will
00:00:25air at 6 and 7:30 in the
00:01:09repercussion of the last few days of these recent
00:01:12decisions, first to remove the Director-General of the
00:01:16Federal Police, Andrei Rodrigues. Then, in
00:01:19sequence, another decision that,
00:01:22uh, he can return to the position. Today he is in the
00:01:25position of Director-General. How does the association of police
00:01:29delegates analyze this issue, these
00:01:32decisions, what was the scenario
00:01:36for the delegates, for the association? Well, Flávia,
00:01:40obviously, the removal of a Director-General, of a director of
00:01:43police intelligence is something that affects the daily life of the Federal
00:01:47Police, affects the interests, including those of the delegates as
00:01:51a class, so the day before yesterday we issued a note
00:01:55and expressed our interest, the request
00:01:58for caution so that... this type of decision is taken by the
00:02:02plenary, precisely so that by the plenary of the Federal Supreme Court,
00:02:05due to the importance of the Federal Police, this is not written anywhere,
00:02:09there is no norm yet approved in this sense of, uh,
00:02:13but out of care for an institution like the Federal Police,
00:02:17with the importance of the Federal Police, such a serious measure as this, we
00:02:21understand that it should come directly from the plenary so that it would be
00:02:24definitive in the sense of its security, it will not be reformed
00:02:28at all times. And that would bring greater
00:02:32tranquility to the institution, one day we have a director, the next
00:02:36day we don't, the next day we have one again, we don't know if next week
00:02:40we will have one, right? Uh, it causes an
00:02:43undesirable instability in the institution, this
00:02:46instability has been going on for weeks and it became
00:02:50exacerbated with these decisions, uh, how do you
00:02:53evaluate, how are the inquiries, the
00:02:57investigations that are underway now? Well,
00:03:00uh, we have been following this issue for a long time, right?
00:03:03And we talked to the delegates who do
00:03:07investigations, we talked to everyone involved to
00:03:10understand if there was any attack on the
00:03:14prerogatives of the delegate position, which is what interests us, if the Federal Police itself would be at risk. We came to
00:03:17the conclusion that there are mutual suspicions,
00:03:21there are mutual divergences between the leadership of the Federal Police, the
00:03:25office of Minister André Mendonça in the STF, and that the
00:03:28position itself, the prerogatives were not at risk. Uh,
00:03:32we only decided to speak out when
00:03:35help the the Attorney General of the Republic,
00:03:38Gonê, uh, said he was going to open a procedure, he didn't
00:03:42open a police control procedure, an external police
00:03:45control against the people who are doing investigation. Then we said, how is
00:03:49this going to be? Everyone is
00:03:52heavy rains hit the in their positions, everyone is deciding if they are going to be investigated, then
00:03:55they are going to investigate first who does investigation. So we issued a
00:03:58note and, uh, by common sense, Minister
00:04:02Faquim yesterday, uh, suspended this procedure. We also
00:04:06commented on the intelligence
00:04:09reports. In this decision, the first decision was monocratic,
00:04:12the second decision was also monocratic. You said that the
00:04:16association's defense is that it goes to the plenary. There
00:04:19are also arguments that this decision to remove or not a director
00:04:22general would be the prerogative of the President of the
00:04:26Republic, uh, for the association, if it had gone
00:04:30already to the plenary or how it will go from now on, right, then
00:04:33yes it would have been, uh, it would have generated less
00:04:36uh, less instability,
00:04:40that is exactly the point that we defend that if it were a decision of the
00:04:44plenary, a collegiate body with all the ministers, even more so with the
00:04:48internal divergences that exist in the STF, which are known,
00:04:51uh, a more definitive decision in relation to a precautionary measure of
00:04:55removal of a director, of another director, of two police directors,
00:04:59by the plenary would be... safer uh, regarding the President of the
00:05:02Republic having the prerogative, really the prerogative is his, only
00:05:06that the judiciary controls acts and it is within the scope of the
00:05:10judiciary to take precautionary measures. There is a
00:05:13divergence, an instability between the relations of the
00:05:17Federal Police with the Federal Supreme Court, a
00:05:20crisis? It seems to me that there are divergences and there are distrusts
00:05:24between, uh, especially between the office of
00:05:27Minister André Mendo, who conducts two of the most
00:05:30sensitive investigations due to the electoral period, which is compliance
00:05:34zero, which involves Banco Master Master
00:05:37of the NSS, the "no discount" operation, and that a certain
00:05:41distrust was established
00:05:45uh, about whether the leadership of the federal police could be making
00:05:48interventions in the investigation, delaying the investigation due to the electoral
00:05:52period, uh, and it seems to me very clear a
00:05:56distrust also on the part of the leadership of the federal police whether Minister André
00:06:00Mendonça is trying to direct or, uh, anticipate
00:06:03investigations due to the electoral period. It seems to me that this is the big
00:06:06divergence, it's very much in the political sphere. This crisis then
00:06:10would be a distrust of the current? Of the Federal
00:06:13Police institution itself, if we have the judiciary that
00:06:17would be
00:06:19uh, perhaps doubting this work, then the federal public ministry
00:06:23comes wanting to open an investigation about the reports that were
00:06:26produced. When you see this, it's to think that there's
00:06:29really something suspicious or something going outside
00:06:33of what it should be for the Federal Police, because the delegate is there doing
00:06:36his job of conducting an inquiry, this is very important to investigate, this is very
00:06:40important, Flávia. The delegates who do the... investigation, I'm not talking about the leadership of the
00:06:44Federal Police, the leadership of the Federal Police does not conduct investigations, what it seems
00:06:47like because of the name of the Director General appearing
00:06:50all the time is that he conducts investigations, that he is responsible
00:06:54for delaying or, or, or
00:06:57uh, directing investigations, but that is not his role, he does not conduct investigations. Who
00:07:01conducts investigations are the delegates who are
00:07:04in the case itself. So when, when, uh,
00:07:08threats of investigations come because they only complied with a judicial
00:07:12decision that should be controlled by the judiciary, it is the judiciary that has to
00:07:15know if the extent if it could or could not, the
00:07:18colleagues only complied with a judicial decision. Then they will be held
00:07:22accountable for complying with a judicial decision. Now, this
00:07:25request from the Attorney General's Office for the investigation of external
00:07:29control of the Federal Police, it has also been suspended, this is a
00:07:33positive side for the Federal Police delegates to continue acting
00:07:37as they are, because they comply with the measure, what is
00:07:41determined by the... justice and therefore they continue
00:07:44the investigations. We hope that in the merits, in the plenary
00:07:48decision, the cancellation of this measure will be maintained, this measure
00:07:51is even intimidating in relation to those
00:07:55who are doing investigations. When we have an investigation in progress,
00:07:58what is the role of the delegates and what is
00:08:01the role for us to separate the function of the Director-General of the Federal
00:08:05Police? He does not have access to the investigation. The investigation is conducted
00:08:08by a delegate, this investigation is conducted by...
00:08:12career delegates,
00:08:14uh, who passed a public exam, the Director-General is also a career
00:08:18delegate who passed a public exam, but the functions are totally different, uh, these
00:08:22delegates do investigations, the Director General administers the Federal Police, he
00:08:26has to seek resources, bring
00:08:28working conditions, uh, represent the Federal
00:08:32Police in the most diverse, uh, alongside the most
00:08:35diverse entities and institutions,
00:08:39but, uh, he does not conduct investigations, this must be very clear to society.
00:08:43The leadership of the Federal Police does not conduct
00:08:46investigations and should not, uh, get
00:08:49involved in them, right? What has been happening is that the
00:08:53production of Federal Police reports has been questioned,
00:08:57first there was a report made for Minister André
00:09:00Mendonça at his request to deliver, uh, that
00:09:04issue of requesting the investigation against Minister
00:09:07Alexandre de Moraes, the Attorney General, it was
00:09:11Minister André. Mendonça determined
00:09:14that the Federal Police make a report for him. The Federal Police
00:09:18complied with a court order and delivered this
00:09:22report. Is this customary?
00:09:25Well, the
00:09:29STF has a discussion about judicial
00:09:32activism, especially from the STF, whether the judge
00:09:35can have, uh, the initiative in
00:09:38certain situations. The fact is, the judiciary has been
00:09:42doing this for years, by various ministers, they are
00:09:46active, they ask for diligences, they
00:09:49act, right? And in this case, the minister asked
00:09:52for, as far as we know, the identification of the
00:09:55interlocutors of that conversation that was caught
00:09:58on Daniel Vorcaro's cell phone, right?
00:10:02So it's a request from him based, substantiated, it was sent
00:10:06to the Federal Police, the Federal Police complied and has to discuss whether
00:10:10to deliver a report, no way. The Federal
00:10:13Police cannot, uh,
00:10:16disobey a judicial decision, so the decision arrived, uh,
00:10:20it is complied with, right? And who has to
00:10:23respond if the judge could or could not have the initiative is the
00:10:27Federal Supreme Court. In your opinion, was there an undue
00:10:31investigation ordered by Minister André
00:10:35Mendonça regarding another minister of the court, Minister Alexandre de
00:10:38Moraes? In your opinion, uh, I don't, I'm not going to give my opinion,
00:10:42I speak on behalf of 2,400 associates here, so I
00:10:46would have to say what they understand, and there are diverse opinions about whether it could, could not, whether
00:10:50it's right, whether it's not right, so we don't have a consolidated position on the
00:10:53merits of this situation. Let's wait then for what will be decided in the
00:10:56plenary of the Supreme Court, right? It's more prudent. Mr. President, after Minister
00:11:00André Mendonça lifted the secrecy of a
00:11:03report of his with conversations between the former banker Daniel
00:11:07Vorcaro and Minister Alexandre de Moraes, Minister
00:11:10Alexandre de Moraes himself, in sequence, using intelligence
00:11:14reports, he questioned the
00:11:17conduct of the reporting minister of the Masser case, Minister
00:11:21André Mendonça. These intelligence reports of the...
00:11:25Federal Police, who are they made by, for whom and
00:11:29with whom should they circulate? Let's,
00:11:32let's make a differentiation between this intelligence report
00:11:35used by Minister Moraes, the report that was used by Minister
00:11:39André Mendonça, okay. The report used by Minister
00:11:43André Mendonça, within an investigation, he
00:11:47asked, determined that the Federal Police delegates
00:11:50make an information to identify who was the
00:11:54interlocutor of Danielcaro in material
00:11:57collected from his cell phone that was seized within an
00:12:00investigation, uh, intelligence report
00:12:03requested by Minister Alexandre de Moraes to the Federal Police. He requested, uh,
00:12:07intelligence reports that have nothing to do with investigation, that evaluated
00:12:11there several situations, uh,
00:12:14the reasons for his request I, I'm not going to
00:12:17comment, but we need to know how he knew about these
00:12:21reports, because Federal Police intelligence reports are confidential. They are
00:12:25produced by the intelligence units to
00:12:28subsidize administrative decisions of the Federal
00:12:31Police leaders and should circulate only among them and
00:12:35should not be known by anyone else, neither outside
00:12:39nor inside the police, so uh, what should be
00:12:43investigated that surprised us a lot was the existence of these reports
00:12:47being made public by this request,
00:12:51uh, another aspect that bothers us is...
00:12:55is the content of some reports that evaluate
00:12:58the performance of the delegates within the investigation, evaluate lines of
00:13:02investigation, evaluate if representations were well made or not
00:13:05were, uh, this puts at
00:13:08risk the investigative autonomy of the delegates, because they are already
00:13:12controlled, they are controlled by the Public Ministry, by the
00:13:15judiciary, by the defense, by the General Corregedoria of the
00:13:18Federal Police, it is not up to the intelligence
00:13:21sectors to control the delegates, the
00:13:25laws do not provide for this control, so
00:13:28we also feel very uncomfortable with this
00:13:31production, I spoke with several delegates who have a history of working in the intelligence
00:13:35areas of the Federal Police and they said they had never seen this,
00:13:39so I hope it is a punctual practice and that it does not
00:13:43spread in the Federal Police, because it is irregular, right?
00:13:47When Minister André Mendonça asks for the removal
00:13:50of the Director General, he alleges that he was also
00:13:54being monitored. Sir, uh, for
00:13:57the association, is this argument valid, not
00:14:00valid, or is it not possible to evaluate it yet? Uh, once again, it is not possible to evaluate the
00:14:04argument, it was presented, uh, with
00:14:06legal basis, then the plenary has to analyze whether
00:14:10this situation is sustainable. For us, the
00:14:13association, we uh, were
00:14:16surprised, we didn't know that this type of report was being
00:14:19produced. Uh, the situation of the report
00:14:23making, uh, the... analysis of the conduct of the inquiries
00:14:27by the delegates bothers us a lot, because the
00:14:30inquiry is already controlled by the judiciary, by the Public
00:14:34Ministry, by the defenses, by the General Corregedoria of the Federal Police,
00:14:37it should not be analyzed and controlled by
00:14:40intelligence. This flow even puts at
00:14:44risk the investigative autonomy of the Federal
00:14:48Police delegates and this bothers us a lot. I hope that
00:14:51this procedure is not common. "I
00:14:55spoke with several delegates who worked in this area in the
00:14:58past, in the intelligence areas, they said they
00:15:01had never seen things of this nature. Is there an
00:15:04interference then in the work of the Federal Police for the
00:15:07delegates? Uh, no, what is the feeling? Uh, we
00:15:11sought to know if there were interferences, whether
00:15:14internal, whether external, the situation
00:15:17is very, it is very fluid, it is not possible to say either
00:15:21that there is, or that there is not, uh, intervention. So..."
00:15:25the procedures were established, they are investigating, the plenary
00:15:28will determine or not the necessary investigations and we will wait for the
00:15:32conclusions. We talked at the very beginning of the interview about
00:15:35the position of the...
00:15:37of the Director-General of the Federal Police. It is a position that is
00:15:41indicated by the President of the Republic, but the Federal
00:15:44Police institution itself defends that a
00:15:47list be made, right? Do you believe that this type
00:15:50of uh, divergence
00:15:54could be avoided? Oh, this is very important for us, Flávia,
00:15:58we have been talking about this issue for a long time, because we are used to
00:16:01fighting crises, the fire, right? Uh, putting out the
00:16:05fire, the fire today. "We are dealing
00:16:09specifically with, we want to deal with the
00:16:12causes, and the cause of distrust regarding the
00:16:16leadership of the federal police is directly linked to the way
00:16:19the director general of the federal police is appointed, who does not
00:16:23have a mandate. So we defend that there should be a mandate, a mandate that
00:16:27passes through governments chosen by a
00:16:30list, the criteria of who can be on this
00:16:34list, let's put it in the law, police time.
00:16:38Uh, work already done, courses and preparations already
00:16:42attended, uh, let's put the criteria and
00:16:45then the delegates indicate to the government of the day who are
00:16:49the most prepared delegates to occupy
00:16:52the leadership at that moment. The President of the Republic, within
00:16:56his popular sovereignty, uh, chooses. For
00:17:00us, this model is the model that would cause less damage to the
00:17:04image of the Federal Police, especially in these moments of crisis, because when... there is no
00:17:07crisis, when there is no investigation involving government opposition, it is a super
00:17:11respected institution, the institution is respected and does not
00:17:14cause any problems, no one distrusts it. Now, as the police is always conducting investigations that
00:17:18involve politicians, that involve political
00:17:22and economic power, it is necessary that society looks at the police and
00:17:25does not distrust anything, absolutely nothing, neither closeness to the
00:17:29government, nor opposition to the government, nor opposition to those who are not
00:17:33in government. The police is a government police, not a state police. That's what I was going to ask
00:17:36you, sir. Is it a government institution or
00:17:40a state institution? It is a state institution, it is not an
00:17:44institution that serves any government or
00:17:48opposition. The political world must stay away, it must be
00:17:51impartial, follow the technical protocols. We are an institution of
00:17:55more than 80 years, we have established protocols, uh,
00:17:59for decades, we improved our
00:18:02our practices because the
00:18:06judiciary said it was... that it could lead to nullities, criticism from the
00:18:09population, the police is very mature to do its work, we need
00:18:13protection, we need protection of the mandate, of the triple
00:18:16list, of autonomies, autonomy,
00:18:19investigative autonomy, functional, administrative,
00:18:23budgetary, financial, why not? A police with this importance that
00:18:26it has, that every year there is an election, it says, the federal police will decide the election,
00:18:30it does not have these protections, we do not want to decide elections, we
00:18:34want to do our job, regardless of who. is in
00:18:38government or disputing the government, therefore a state institution, this
00:18:41autonomy will emphasize this issue, right? That's
00:22:27about the functions, uh, the
00:22:30Federal Police institution and we know that there are
00:22:33federal police officers who work alongside the judiciary in the
00:22:37Federal Supreme Court. In view of this whole crisis, Minister
00:22:41Gilmar Mendes made a proposal that we
00:22:44no longer have military personnel and federal
00:22:48police officers working within the offices, but this
00:22:51function, this work is already very old. How does the association
00:22:55receive this proposal from Minister Gilmar
00:22:58Mendes? In the advice of the
00:23:01ministers, there are several professionals, there are members of the
00:23:05AGU, substitute judges themselves who
00:23:09come up to help, federal police delegates at this
00:23:12moment, other professions, they
00:23:15use, they bring their professional knowledge
00:23:18to help in the... advice of the minister, uh, the delegates have always
00:23:22done this, what they discovered now is that the fault
00:23:25lies with the delegates for any type of activism of the supreme court,
00:23:29how long has judicial activism been discussed in the supreme court
00:23:32or anywhere else? There are no delegates with them, so it's us
00:23:36who have become the cause of any
00:23:40excess of the Federal Supreme Court. The
00:23:43Supreme Court ministers, they who were chosen for such an important position,
00:23:47are they so susceptible to...
00:23:50interference from federal police delegates? So it seems to us that
00:23:54this measure aimed at a category, also at the military, in this
00:23:57abstract way is discriminatory against our profession
00:24:01and the presence of a federal police officer is important because they have
00:24:05knowledge of the things that are being investigated, of the conduct, I think
00:24:08mainly because they have knowledge
00:24:11of the investigation part and criminal
00:24:14law itself, it helps the minister to understand, he is not obliged, the ministers are not obliged to
00:24:18understand all areas in depth, so these people,
00:24:22not only the delegates, but others,
00:24:25Federal Supreme Court to make the most
00:24:28appropriate decisions, and another thing, the minister is not obliged to have
00:24:32delegates there, he just needs not to summon them, if he summons them, it's because it's
00:24:35important for them, it would even be a way to, uh, interfere in the autonomy
00:24:39of each cabinet, if the minister wants professional A,
00:24:42B or C to have it, for us as a category it seems
00:24:46uh, very discriminatory towards us
00:24:49and... they are placing a responsibility on us that does not exist, where is
00:24:53the proof that the delegates who are in the Federal Supreme Court are making
00:24:57interventions and investigations in the Federal Police, these are insinuations that one or
00:25:00another throws out there and that we from the National Association of Federal Police
00:25:04Delegates vehemently repudiate even the
00:25:07claim that there may be a supposed
00:25:10directed leak, as we said previously in the first block,
00:25:14that information about investigations is being leaked, a leak can occur with
00:25:18any professional, any... anyone with any type of
00:25:22training can cause a leak, if
00:25:25it is investigated, if it is concluded that professional A
00:25:29or B is responsible, but to conclude that
00:25:33there is a leak because there are delegates there is reckless, the federal
00:25:37police acts independently, what is the position
00:25:40of the more than 2,000 delegates who are
00:25:44linked to this association when a crisis like this happens?
00:25:47It is to reaffirm this action?
00:25:50We are 2,400 delegates linked to the DPF. Our position is
00:25:54unanimous in the understanding that the federal police does a
00:25:57state job, a technical job, very well done,
00:26:01reconhecido pela sociedade. "nós precisamos das proteções das
00:26:04autonomias da PEC 412 de 2009 que
00:26:08que necessita de alguns ajustes, mas ela ser quais são as alterações que
00:26:12essa proposta traz, ela traz autonomia financeira e
00:26:15orçamentária, autonomia administrativa, financeira e orçamentária que
00:26:19é paraa polícia, polícia federal possa eh construir
00:26:23seu orçamento e mandar pro congresso nacional aprovar, sem os cortes do
00:26:27governo federal, porque o governo pode controlar inclusive tirando recursos
00:26:30né, eh financeira. de não ter contingenciamentos
00:26:34né, eh, a
00:26:37administrativa para que o diretor geral possa montar a sua equipe sem passar
00:26:40pelos escalões mais altos do governo, hoje porque hoje um diretor, ele
00:26:44the director general is appointed by the president and the other
00:26:48directors are appointed by the director general, but the name must have the approval of the
00:26:51Planalto, general coordinators, superintendents and directors, all
00:26:55of them need the approval of the Planalto
00:26:58and can even be vetoed for political reasons, it has
00:27:02already happened. So, we want
00:27:05this administrative autonomy,
00:27:08obviously the investigative autonomy, so that
00:27:11no one can exert any type of pressure on
00:27:15those conducting investigations, then this choice of the director general
00:27:18would come from a list, we have already talked about this before, but it would come from a
00:27:22list that the delegates themselves would vote on
00:27:25also, they would indicate, sorry, that's the word, who will be on this
00:27:29list, put in the law what the criteria are, if they
00:27:33fit they can be on the list,
00:27:36the delegates send it to the president, these are our most
00:27:40qualified professionals to fill
00:27:42the position of director general of the federal police at this time, he
00:27:46chooses among them, I even miss
00:27:49Flávia, in this electoral debate
00:27:52of the moment, candidates talking about this subject,
00:27:56because the candidates say "I am in favor of the independence of the federal police,
00:28:00I am in favor of the autonomy of the federal police", but what
00:28:03autonomy are they talking about? Is it the autonomy they will give when
00:28:06they are in office depending on what is being investigated,
00:28:10or the autonomy in the federal constitution, in the
00:28:13laws? And it has been a long time since this proposal has been in the national congress, a long
00:28:17time, a long time. I even ask
00:28:20Record and the other media
00:28:23to include these questions in the
00:28:27electoral debates that we will have in the future so that the candidates can
00:28:31express their understanding regarding the federal
00:28:34police, otherwise in the next government we will have the same problems that we are
00:28:38having now, uhm, and it ends up preventing an
00:28:41instability in the institution, as happened overnight recently now, right?
00:28:45Certainly, instabilities now, there were instabilities in
00:28:48past governments, we have already had a president of the republic in the
00:28:52past being investigated by the federal police, we had in the
00:28:56past government changes of
00:28:59superintendents in the federal police under pressure from the federal government. Now we
00:29:03have these suspicions again, so we understand that this
00:29:06protection system could avoid all these
00:29:10problems, so that at least it would be much
00:29:13better than the current system, which has already proven
00:29:15to be deficient and causes problems for the
00:29:41postcards faces extreme weather
00:29:43conditions, a landslide hit the parking lot of
00:29:47Mount Fuji in Japan. Some employee vehicles were
00:29:50partially buried after
00:29:54region. The incident happened this Thursday, on the last day
00:29:58of the official climbing season of the volcano. This year, the period
00:30:02was marked by torrential rains, images
00:30:05released by authorities and by official guides show
00:30:09the access roads and trails covered by a dense fog
00:30:12and battered by the rain. We'll be
00:30:16back soon with another edition of JR24 hours here on Record
00:30:19News.
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