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00:01:00In the name of God, the Great and Exalted. Dear viewers,
00:01:03welcome to the program Kavosh with me, Karim Allah Ibrahimi.
00:01:07Given the existing differences between Afghanistan and
00:01:11Pakistan, China is trying to use its close relations
00:01:14with both countries to pave the way
00:01:17for reducing tension and resuming talks between Kabul and
00:01:21Islamabad. China's special envoy for
00:01:24Afghanistan, in his recent trips to Turkey, Pakistan, and
00:01:27here in Afghanistan, has discussed with the officials of these three countries
00:01:31the improvement of relations and ways to resolve differences.
00:01:35The Islamic Emirate has also welcomed China's efforts to reduce tension
00:01:38and insists
00:01:42that dialogue and understanding are the best way
00:01:45to resolve differences. A few questions about
00:01:49this issue. To what extent can China's efforts to reduce tension between Afghanistan and
00:01:52Pakistan be effective? In addition
00:01:56to that, how can China, given its close relations with Afghanistan
00:02:00and Pakistan, provide a platform for dialogue and
00:02:03understanding between the two countries, and finally, given
00:02:07the historical roots of the differences between Afghanistan and
00:02:10Pakistan, will China's efforts alone be
00:02:14sufficient to resolve these differences? We will discuss
00:02:17all these issues here in the program. Fortunately, we are here
00:02:21in the studio with Mr.
00:02:23Sayed Jawad Hosseini, an expert in international relations,
00:02:27and next to him, Mr. Mayun Jurat Nuri,
00:02:30a political analyst who is here in the studio. Gentlemen, welcome
00:02:34to the program, and thank you for your efforts. Allow us, Mr. Hosseini,
00:02:38to start the discussion with you. How important are China's efforts
00:02:41from the perspective of international relations and good neighborliness, and
00:02:45how much praise do they deserve?
00:02:48In the name of God, the Great and Merciful. While extending
00:02:51greetings to you, wa alaikum assalam, and other staff,
00:02:55dear guests, and the noble nation
00:02:57of Afghanistan. You see that with
00:03:01regard to the political, economic, and
00:03:04security position that China has in the world, it is an influential
00:03:08country that can mediate
00:03:11between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
00:03:15It can play a positive role.
00:03:19However, unfortunately, in the past
00:03:22five years, one of the diplomatic crises
00:03:26of Afghanistan, which can be described as a crisis.
00:03:33As you know, the two countries have clashed many times,
00:03:37and there have been many demands from both sides, and this has turned
00:03:40into a major problem, a very big problem,
00:03:44between these two neighboring countries, two Muslim
00:03:47countries, and it is very necessary
00:03:51that these differences should be resolved through dialogue.
00:03:54Yes, yes, the people of Afghanistan and the people of Pakistan
00:03:58are not enemies of each other.
00:04:01They are neighbors, they are of the same religion and faith. We have
00:04:04historical relations at the popular level, and
00:04:08it is necessary that the governments, in every possible
00:04:12way, should resolve this big and devastating problem.
00:04:16And it is something that in these countries that
00:04:19can have an impact in this regard,
00:04:22it can play a role. Although in past
00:04:26years, some countries like the United Arab Emirates.
00:04:34However, unfortunately, a desirable result was not
00:04:37achieved. Exactly, Mr. Hosseini, the main point
00:04:40is that, especially China, if we remember,
00:04:44this is not the first time that China is ready to mediate between Afghanistan and
00:04:48Pakistan. It might be the second time, or even the third time,
00:04:52and after that, it will take such action.
00:04:55The main point is that it doesn't yield results. We, who have political
00:04:59and relational ties with countries and are committed
00:05:02to the principles of good neighborliness, and are ready for dialogue,
00:05:05have repeatedly announced from high-ranking officials.
00:05:09The point is that it doesn't yield results, and this
00:05:42in Pakistan, and also a country that is struggling
00:05:45with severe economic problems. Billions
00:05:48of dollars have been lost by Pakistan.
00:05:52Pakistan's transit relations
00:05:56with Central Asia have been cut off.
00:05:59The losses that Pakistanis
00:06:03have suffered from the border closures are very significant.
00:06:06On this side, Afghanistan has also suffered significant
00:06:10losses.
00:06:23that Pakistan should cease its excessive demands,
00:06:26and its illicit intentions and requests
00:06:30from Afghanistan, and on this side,
00:06:32Afghanistan should also try to tolerate
00:06:35the Pakistanis in cases where there might be
00:06:39a logical, reasonable, and
00:06:42documented request. Both
00:06:45these countries have suffered losses.
00:06:49Both countries have been harmed, and
00:06:53we hope that the statesmen have come to the conclusion
00:06:56that the existing differences. Stay safe.
00:07:00We will return. Mr. Nouri, what is your assessment
00:07:03and analysis? Do you think that China's mediation
00:07:07will be effective? In the name of God, the Most Gracious,
00:07:09the Most Merciful.
00:11:55that finally China mediates and becomes willing, because
00:11:59the tensions between Afghanistan and China
00:12:02should be resolved, and a groundwork should be laid for the continuation of benefits
00:12:05within Pakistan for China. You
00:12:09see that China has a very
00:12:13deep economic relationship with Pakistan,
00:12:16which is a historical relationship.
00:12:20It is a strategic relationship between China
00:12:23and Pakistan in economic matters. In security
00:12:27matters, China also has very warm
00:12:30relations with Pakistan. China has always tried
00:12:34to leverage its warm relations with Pakistan and
00:12:38prevent the influence of some extremist Islamic
00:12:42elements inside who can inflict harm
00:12:46and enter China. China should prevent
00:12:50these threats. Therefore, the priority
00:12:53is economics, and in the second stage, security is the issue.
00:12:57The relations between Pakistan and China are warm.
00:13:00China has significant interests in Pakistan. On the other
00:13:04hand, China also has significant interests in Afghanistan,
00:13:07including, especially in economic matters,
00:13:10Afghanistan is one of the very important
00:13:14consuming countries of Chinese products. You see
00:13:17that, given the goods that are relatively cheap and based
00:13:21on the preferences of traders, China produces
00:13:24for every country. In Afghanistan, Chinese
00:13:27goods are also in very high demand because they are relatively
00:13:31cheaper, and this is very important for China.
00:13:35On the other
00:13:37hand, the issue of security. Security
00:13:41in Afghanistan can have a direct impact on
00:13:44neighboring countries, on countries in the region, including China.
00:13:48Therefore, both countries are important
00:13:51to China, and on the other hand, China has good
00:13:54relations with both countries.
00:13:57With the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan,
00:14:00China's relations with Afghanistan have been very good
00:14:03in the past few years, and on the other hand,
00:14:07as I mentioned, it also has very warm
00:14:10and strategic
00:14:13It can play a positive
00:14:16role in this regard for negotiations.
00:14:19Of course, these are efforts that are being made.
00:14:23Whether these efforts will reach a desired
00:14:26result or not, we cannot predict
00:14:30exactly now, but the negotiations
00:14:33themselves are good, and that finally the problem
00:14:37of Afghanistan and Pakistan must be resolved,
00:14:40and the solution to the problems between the two countries
00:14:44can only be through diplomatic discussions
00:14:47and peaceful dialogues, and this is the only
00:14:51way that these two countries can solve their problems. Yes, Mr.
00:14:55Hosseini, now when you mentioned regional stability,
00:14:58and Mr. Nouri also mentioned it, regional stability can also
00:15:02destabilize the region. The main
00:15:05finger is often pointed
00:15:08at Pakistan, and here we have no problem
00:15:11and no tension stirred up from Afghanistan,
00:15:14especially the recent tensions between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Afghanistan
00:15:18has not created tension, it was not the main cause.
00:15:21This issue of regional instability that you mentioned as a threat
00:15:25to China, do you think that
00:15:28regional countries, including China, why don't
00:15:31they take such an approach from Pakistan seriously,
00:15:35at least in the past five years?
00:16:07There are a series of issues within Pakistan
00:16:11that Pakistan is unable to resolve.
00:16:15Perhaps a lot of casualties have been inflicted on Pakistan's
00:16:18security forces, but it has not been successful,
00:16:22for example, in resolving the Baloch issue, it has not been successful
00:16:26in resolving the Pakistani Taliban issue. There are other groups
00:16:29as well. The government
00:16:31of Pakistan is unable to provide
00:16:35adequate security internally.
00:16:58issues that are raised in the foreign policy of countries, when they face national
00:17:01problems, they try to mobilize public
00:17:05opinion and to appease public opinion
00:17:08and to boost the morale of their citizens by
00:17:12creating an external enemy for themselves
00:17:15and projecting their problems onto another country
00:17:19and accusing it of being the source of their problems,
00:17:22saying that we have no problems internally,
00:17:25everything comes from Afghanistan or an external country.
00:17:28These are mostly used to justify public opinion
00:17:32and mobilize public opinion. Mr. Nouri, if we continue
00:17:35this discussion, how much do you think Pakistan's excuses
00:17:38have become repetitive and tiresome? The excuses
00:17:42that we mentioned earlier, that it tries to connect
00:17:46its problems to other countries,
00:17:49while we see that all of them are far
00:17:53from reason and logic. Ibrahimi
00:17:56mentioned in international
00:17:59politics
00:18:01that it is an act of diversion.
00:18:05It is.
00:21:50The program time is short. If you answer, given the background of
00:21:53talks with Pakistan, it is seen that Pakistan,
00:21:57as we all know, prefers escape over stability.
00:22:00Do you think in direct talks
00:22:03Pakistan is really not good at it, or is it
00:22:07part of its policies to somehow deceive
00:22:11countries and policies? It's hard to believe
00:22:13that Pakistan's diplomacy
00:22:15also has a strong department
00:22:19in advancing foreign policies. But
00:22:22it is possible that their policies sometimes
00:22:26create situations where they make a mistake, as we say
00:22:29in common language.
00:22:31We hope
00:22:34that Pakistan will come to this conclusion.
00:22:37The situation in Afghanistan is becoming more and
00:22:41more different from the past.
00:22:44You see, there was a time when Afghanistan, especially
00:22:47in terms of transit routes,
00:22:51was almost 100% dependent on Pakistan.
00:22:55But you saw that alternative routes were created in past
00:22:58years. The Chabahar
00:23:01issue came up, alternative routes
00:23:04were created, and recently, the Wakhan
00:23:08road is about to be opened. To the extent that Pakistanis
00:23:12are negligent and do not solve their problems
00:23:15with Afghanistan, they will suffer
00:23:18more losses. The transit position
00:23:22that Pakistan previously had with Afghanistan, because of this
00:23:25dispute, alternative routes have now emerged
00:23:28that have significantly reduced Afghanistan's need,
00:23:31and this is not in the interest of Pakistan's national
00:23:35interests or Pakistan's economy. On this side, Afghanistan
00:23:39also wants to have good relations with Pakistan. We
00:23:43hope that both sides will show more flexibility,
00:23:46understand each other, and that we
00:23:50will witness a good
00:23:53outcome from the negotiations. Mr. Nouri, we have
00:23:57one minute left. If you can briefly answer,
00:24:00how effective will international pressures be on Pakistan,