Google Speech-to-Text API Automatic Transcription (Chirp). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00United States and and Israel, how can you challenge them?
00:00:04But if you follow what President
00:00:07Erdogan has said, all along,
00:00:11then then it's quite a sensible policy, basically
00:00:14distancing itself from
00:00:16a um of taking side with any party, although it's been
00:00:20as you mentioned the NATO country, um,
00:00:24so minister Fidan was
00:00:28also getting together with the... alfar up countries
00:00:31to sign away a number
00:00:34of certainly more than one declaration calling
00:00:38Iran the aggressor
00:00:40of on the gulf Arab
00:00:41of countries and what have you, and there was
00:00:43quite geneny
00:00:46in considerable
00:00:46of criticism at his
00:00:48way of explaining the war to the Turkish public, but the
00:00:51Turkish public
00:00:56you now is
00:00:57of quite um, anti-American quite and anti-Israeli. anything, everything, not
00:01:01of only in this war against Iran,
00:01:03of but you know,
00:01:04in anything you can think of over the last few
00:01:07decades, yeah, because um, foreign
00:01:10minister Fidan, maybe he's thinking about the F-35s, which I will get
00:01:14to later in the show, I mean
00:01:18Turkia has simultaneously, as I understand it, helping
00:01:21Iran uh against the kurds that
00:01:25Trump announced to the world, the United States was
00:01:29arming, as fake protesters in January and
00:01:33simultaneously facilitating US war planes from uh
00:01:37the NATO base in Ingelilic that may have bombed
00:01:41of Iran. um on the question of ingelick, no, the Ingelic
00:01:44airbase is almost closed um since
00:01:48of the um aborted coup of
00:01:5115th of July 2016
00:01:55um in which the uh the base
00:01:59was ' i think use the
00:02:02bit um to support the attempted
00:02:06coup, so since then there has been no
00:02:09American combat troops, no
00:02:14of American air force planes deployed to the
00:02:17of base, then maybe british ones, no, I'm quite surprised
00:02:21of there, because I mean you held the anchor NATO summit, leader
00:02:25summit, did people not comment on the fact that supposedly
00:02:29this... important base in terkya was no longer being used
00:02:33by the United States, I don't whether by MIC. not
00:02:37anymore, I mean there may be certain logistical
00:02:41planes, taking off say somewhere in
00:02:45Poland and
00:02:46then making a flight into the region and
00:02:49then they may be calling at the angelic
00:02:53base for logistical purpose, but that's
00:02:56about all, other than that, there has been no...
00:03:01proper combat use
00:03:05de of de their angelic air base and against anybody, certainly not against
00:03:09de Iran, not even I would say for reconnaissance
00:03:12purposes, and there is been
00:03:16a debate inside Turkey about the
00:03:19kuragic radar station, which is certainly
00:03:23monitoring Iran and Iranian missiles and
00:03:27I think it was installed in
00:03:30um 2009 or 11 along those
00:03:34lines after the NATO summit in Lisbon
00:03:38and that was actually installed
00:03:41to to monitor Iranian missile
00:03:45activity, but i suppose from a military
00:03:49point of view that base um is
00:03:53obviously very sophisticated and it basically um
00:03:57passes any information. um from the Iranian
00:04:01side onto the NATO side and I'm sure the
00:04:05NATO country, the United States passes it
00:04:08to Israel within seconds, there
00:04:12is no question about it, but the Iranian missile
00:04:15um capability is such
00:04:18that um even that base has become
00:04:22almost um nothing
00:04:25basically um in terms of stopping
00:04:28Iranian um Iranian. missiles
00:04:31pumelling Israel, so even the all those bases
00:04:35across the gulf states um didn't do much in
00:04:39order to to stop Iran from
00:04:43again um sending all the sophisticated
00:04:46of missiles into Israel and and the American
00:04:50targets across the region, well the UAE has been successfully intercepting
00:04:54Iranian drones, I'm in Dubai so I'm a witness to
00:04:57of that, but then Iran's foreign minister publicly
00:05:02in
00:05:03in confirming's role in helping Iran
00:05:07eliminate these, the poor cuds been
00:05:10used this way and that way. by the CIA for so many
00:05:14decades, even in Iraq of course, and and
00:05:18used in Syria, I mean, we surprised by
00:05:21that, and surprised that Trump is not more angry with
00:05:25Erdogan given that he was so proud of funding the Kurds
00:05:29to try and forment some kind of revolution in
00:05:32Iran. Well, I think he's,
00:05:36he himself is quite disappointed with them, what
00:05:40they call the Kurdish fighters, the... KK all its
00:05:43affiliates, the Iranian branch and blah blah branch and the
00:05:47Syrian branch, and then you get the
00:05:50Barzani and the Talibani forces and all
00:05:53them, so I think it was around this time when the
00:05:57United States realize that Iran is getting is
00:06:01is certainly very difficult not to crack, they are not going
00:06:05to manage to to to to get
00:06:09the overthrow the regime in one way or the other. and they would
00:06:13need some sort of land operation against
00:06:16Iran, they basically ordered all those
00:06:19loyal Kurdish forces if you like, um, we then
00:06:23wake up call and say, well, this is the time, this is your time
00:06:26okay, and get up, take up arms
00:06:30and you are gna be ready, and we are going to tell you when
00:06:34to attack Iran, Iran, but then the trouble
00:06:37was they basically
00:06:41mumbled and... and they said, oh, we can't do the job, can
00:06:45we actually do it kind of thing, well it's not so much that, it's not so much
00:06:48that, is it Turkish intelligence supplied Iranian
00:06:52intelligence with details these Kurds and where they were
00:06:56were, and how to kill them, I think in December,
00:07:00yes, there was a piece of Turkish intelligence, I think
00:07:04that Turkish side supplied Iran with, and it proved to be
00:07:08quite important because the Iranian special forces
00:07:11immediately um got in basically, I think
00:07:15it was about the certain groups, that the
00:07:19Americans brought together to cross
00:07:23the border into Iran, so the Iranian side with Turkish
00:07:26intelligence let them in, let them to the Iranian
00:07:30side, and then they encircle them
00:07:33and presumably annihilated them, so
00:07:36after that
00:07:38this was back in presumably December,
00:07:41but "despite all that, in the 40
00:07:45days war, the Americans and the Israelis tried their
00:07:49lack with the so-called Kurdish forces once again against
00:07:53Iran, and this time round the Kurdish
00:07:56forces basically were very
00:07:59unwilling to do the to do their bidding, because they
00:08:03knew what what was going to happen. I think it was at that stage
00:08:07that Erdogan, according to all the reports, called
00:08:11Trump and..." said, don't do it, because if you
00:08:15do it, then
00:08:16you will have to force us to collaborate
00:08:18and cooperate with Iran, and obviously you don't want us
00:08:22to collaborate with Iran, so it was that
00:08:26point, I think when the United States gave
00:08:29up the so-called Kurdish forces,
00:08:33okay, and now they are very, the
00:08:36Americans, Trump is
00:08:38basically dropping them off
00:08:41like... as they say in British English,
00:08:45I mean is it your understanding that I don't
00:08:49was, she's retired now as director of national intelligence, but do you
00:08:53think Turkish intelligence operatives were
00:08:56laughing or or I mean the idea that this
00:09:00intelligence presumably was being provided by
00:09:03Musad and an and the
00:09:07CIA that somehow this would have any impact in
00:09:10Iran? I mean how... No, how, how would this ever have been
00:09:14thought up? They could have given you a phone call in
00:09:18Ankara. Oh, they could have followed my
00:09:22postings on my social media account, and I do programs
00:09:25actually with a former admiral,
00:09:29friend of mine, and we keep basically
00:09:33guessing what is gonna happen um, with with
00:09:37extreme accuracy, so without any payment
00:09:40for advisory. job, they could have followed us, but they
00:09:44didn't, what can we do, and but you
00:09:47know, it
00:09:49it it was all, I think it was out of desperation,
00:09:52because they presumably thought
00:09:56that killing homony and some the high
00:09:59ranking Iranian officials would have been enough to
00:10:03get the Iranian state structure crumbling all
00:10:07together, within days
00:10:10um, perhaps... at the most within
00:10:14weeks and but then as Iran
00:10:18retaliated and and retaliated quite
00:10:22effectively and ' "and the
00:10:25United in such a way that United States and Israel never
00:10:29expected an unprecedented on an
00:10:32unprecedented scale, then they
00:10:36they got into panic, they didn't know what to do, um, you
00:10:40know, and then the usual thing, you look at your list
00:10:43of um operatives and what have you on your payroll, and
00:10:47then you say, well, there are the curs here, oh, okay, and
00:10:51why don't we call them up, and we also have..."
00:10:55the um officials and officers working with them on the ground,
00:10:59so let's get them into the fighting, but
00:11:02then um,
00:11:04you know, you have their regional dynamics, for instance, like how
00:11:08would turkey react to it, plus would they ever be a good
00:11:11match against the powerful Iranian land
00:11:15forces and special forces and whatever you, and there are
00:11:19also Iranian backed forces
00:11:23inside Iraq, how... would you get all
00:11:26them basically um to one
00:11:29side, simply watch sitting and watching
00:11:33while all this is happening, so they are all going to get
00:12:05I am the son of Kenneth Kaunder. Through interacting
00:12:09with people from all works of life and from various parts the world,
00:12:13I am continual reminded of my father's legacy.
00:12:17I have come to realize that my father's impact on
00:12:21Africa remains as relevant today as it was back.
00:12:25then through the struggles of a continuous liberation, he
00:12:29showed us the power of perseverance
00:12:33and spirit, he's fight for justice and equality
00:12:36to build a more inclusive society, in place the
00:12:39divisions left by western colonialism. dad
00:12:43believed in the potential of every African,
00:12:47as we remember him, let us honor his vision by
00:12:50working tirelessly for better Africa, a continent of...
00:12:55opportunity, equality and progress for every
00:12:58child, woman and man. this is our
00:13:02africa
00:13:03and the future is in our
00:13:06hands.
00:14:17welcome back to Going Underground, I'm still here with the host of Strategic Compass and Basken
00:14:21University's professor of political science and international relations, professor.
00:14:25Professor, we were talking in uh part one of how uh, well NATO
00:14:29member Turkia helped Iran tipped off
00:14:33Iran about the Trump Kurd plan as it
00:14:36were, does Erdogan realize that
00:14:40Israel has Turkia in its sights as the next
00:14:43target after Iran, does does Turkia
00:14:47understand that? Well, I would think it
00:14:50does, um, but on the other hand um, I would
00:14:54say... that Israel is a bit you
00:14:57know talking a bit too much about you know
00:15:01boasting about this and the other and uh the
00:15:05next target is gna be Turkey oh certainly trying
00:15:08to punch much higher than their weight
00:15:12how are you going
00:15:12to basically strike Turkey if you do that then you are going to
00:15:16basically poking um into
00:15:20it like is the
00:15:24into the um uh beast nest
00:15:27basically a region which is already very very
00:15:30volatile, that's what we said about eran beforehand when no
00:15:34one thought they were going to do this, yep, yep, yep, and
00:15:37after basically Iran gave them a bloody
00:15:41nose, I mean talking in
00:15:44such a childish way saying that Turkey is going to be
00:15:48the next target, and okay,
00:15:51you know
00:15:51the Turkish institutions,
00:15:53the military, the intelligence and all the other related
00:15:56institutions basically do their job, but
00:16:00politically you don't take them seriously, would you? well
00:16:04I was interested in what you said in part one about how since the uh attempted
00:16:08coup in uh Ankara Interlink air base
00:16:11bases are more less dissus, so it's not being used
00:16:15like say the British are using Cyprus to aid
00:16:18the genocide in Gaza, but having said that,
00:16:21Turkey is helping Israel, isn't it through the sayan
00:16:25corridor to which Azerbaijani oil heats the
00:16:29homes of Netanyahu and his friends in Israel as they carry
00:16:33out the genocide, how do you explain Turkey's public condemnation of?
00:16:37side and simultaneous powering the
00:16:41houses of occupiers? well,
00:16:45there is set of contradictions in Turkey's policy towards
00:16:48Israel, um, maybe not so
00:16:52much in the Azerbaijan and Armenia dispute and the
00:16:56Trump corridor and all that, the it's an intricus
00:17:00case, intricate case between Azerbaijan
00:17:03and Armenia and Pashinan basically,
00:17:07turning against Russia and taking the uh western side
00:17:11in every sense, so going over to Trump and say,
00:17:15you please, you come in and I push the
00:17:19Russians out kind of thing, but the the
00:17:22more um visible um
00:17:25contradictions in Turkey's foreign policy
00:17:29and towards Israel you confined in the middle east, for
00:17:33instance, why did Turkey get involved in the whole?
00:17:37Syria business to basically overthrow the
00:17:41Assad regime, the Assad regime was an antisyria,
00:17:45anti Israel regime and it had basically
00:17:49f Israel on every occasion
00:17:52and professor, i did one the last interviews
00:17:56with Bashar al-Assad in Damascus during the middle the war,
00:17:59so the question you're asking is a brilliant question and I want you to
00:18:03answer it, why did '
00:18:07help overthrow the Syrian
00:18:10government, which allowed arguably the genocide in
00:18:14Gaza to happen, exactly, exactly, so
00:18:18on the one hand you are vocifariously anti
00:18:21Israeli, but at the same time you are
00:18:25basically overthrowing a very
00:18:28anti-Israeli government in Damascus, but
00:18:32why is it? why? well, well, I have been
00:18:36basically racking my rocking my brains since the
00:18:40Turkish intervention in this ugly war in 12
00:18:4312 11 21 because
00:18:472011 sorry and basically since
00:18:5019 1998
00:18:54which is when Turkey and Syria made an understanding
00:18:58over all the issues of importance to both countries and
00:19:02began cooperating over on particularly Syria and related
00:19:06affairs on all
00:19:07it security was matters and then
00:19:09began basically
00:19:13boosting the trade between the country economic relations and what have
00:19:16you, you
00:19:17know Erdogan's government which um
00:19:21invited the Syrian leader um to have
00:19:24holiday with them in you know family to family holiday several
00:19:28times, that's right, I think
00:19:30he had a personal, I think he felt personally betrayed little on many
00:19:34people in the so I think the only only. "It sounds like
00:19:38you're as confused as me about that, so let me let me put something
00:19:41else and whether this is symptomatic. I could just come up, I could just
00:19:45come up with one single answer to all that, because I've
00:19:49been trying to come up with an explanation,
00:19:53and I think that was islamist
00:19:55ideology. I mean, when the Arab spring
00:19:59began, and the Erdogan government and Ahmed
00:20:03and all these guys basically thought that this
00:20:06was the..." they had been waiting
00:20:10for, so the prophet basically has given them the
00:20:14opportunity to act now to bring down all these
00:20:17governments and replace them with the muslim brother ones
00:20:21i'm not sure r great fan great fan
00:20:25of Israeli sponsored al-qaeda in syria though, but do
00:20:29want not al-qaeda but muslim
00:20:32brotherhood governments and they were going to
00:20:36have all that and they were going to set up a sunni, muslim
00:20:39brotherhood inspired empire across the middle
00:20:43east,
00:20:44you know, it was all
00:20:48how i would call it just it
00:20:52was baseless if
00:20:54you if they had studied it properly clearly that's a very
00:20:58that is certainly very persuasive we're running out time so i've got to get
00:21:02on but that's certainly a persuasive answer uh but i was going to ask
00:21:06you then about similar contradiction if the other question wasn't
00:21:10actually answerable in that russia calls turkey a calls
00:21:14russia its partner but it's sim same time
00:21:18it's supporing weapons. to Zelensky,
00:21:22how long do you think Russia is going to tolerate Turkish drones
00:21:25being used to attack Russia? I mean last
00:21:28December, one these reported MI6 coordinated
00:21:32drones, I mean was aiming at Valday
00:21:35a home the president of Russia, what if it had been a Turkia
00:21:39drone, what what is Turkia's policy on
00:21:42Ukraine? Well,
00:21:45what did whether Turkey actually has been supplying
00:21:49um? Ukraine with sophisticated
00:21:52drones, um, I'm not so
00:21:55certain about,
00:21:58and I, I would also say that the western press seems to be
00:22:02exaggerating the Turkish supply
00:22:06to Ukraine in order to drive awage
00:22:10between Moscow and Ankara, that is quite understandable, the
00:22:13Russians, with whom I'm in close
00:22:16touch, um, do understand the situation.
00:22:21and the the problem comes from the NATO membership in the sense
00:22:25that Ukraine is still within the partnership
00:22:28for peace program of NATO, so NATO
00:22:32supplies um Ukraine with certain
00:22:36things that Turkey may have produced, but
00:22:40there has been a direct lines of communication between
00:22:44Moscow and Turkey, that is been still working,
00:22:48but occasionally... even I get the impression that
00:22:51Turkish policy is basically getting off track once
00:22:55again, so it can, because it is not
00:22:59an easy balancing act, and sometimes again
00:23:03you can see the forum minister saying
00:23:07certain things which are not
00:23:09necessarily which the Russians could
00:23:13easily consider as anti Russian, but
00:23:16then you have the president saying something else kind of... "but the
00:23:20trade and economic relations and others seem to be going well,
00:23:24and the Russians do understand and appreciate Turkey's position, I
00:23:28think there may be more Turkey could actually
00:23:31collaborate with Russia on, but and it seems to
00:23:35be refaining from that. For instance, at one stage, I
00:23:39was, I was certain that the Russians were prepared to
00:23:43recognize Turkish Republic of Northern Northern Cyprus,
00:23:46they were prepared to go to that length, because..." they were pissed
00:23:50off by Greece and the Greek Cypriots and
00:23:54the they thought that their interest in eastern Mediterranean
00:23:58certainly overlapped with with those of Turkey, but
00:24:02Turkey doesn't seem to be that
00:24:05enthusiastic at the Russians
00:24:09um um get um sometimes during
00:24:13this process, you think, but in
00:24:15the end I'm sure the Turkish Russian relations will go smoothly, there's
00:24:19a strategic. biguity obviously, but um, what with the
00:24:23turk stream pipeline, half of its oil from
00:24:26Russia, do you think now we'll see more
00:24:30ambiguity, because Turkey, if it
00:24:33is top five Russian energy importer under the Lindsay
00:24:37Graham act, it gets 100%
00:24:40tariffs from this new act that was signed the other
00:24:43day, do you think Turkey is worried about that given it's
00:24:47importing more energy from Russia than before?
00:24:50"Turkey would be worried about that, because
00:24:53you know we are not only importing energy from Russia, but
00:24:57also we are importing it a discounted
00:25:00price, so and if the United States
00:25:03basically impose sanctions on Turkey because of
00:25:07this, um, it would be, it wouldn't been an
00:25:11easy thing for the Turkish government to deal
00:25:14with, is NATO do you think uh
00:25:18gna end or?" "
00:25:20do you think that was the last summit of its kind in Ankara if
00:25:24Russia manages to finally end the conflict in
00:25:27Ukraine? well, I always believe that
00:25:31both NATO and the European Union
00:25:34are antiquated um
00:25:37alliance and union, and they are
00:25:41the institutions and
00:25:43the and the alliance
00:25:46basically the cold war period. I don't think
00:25:50they can uh, they can survive a multipolar world order,
00:25:54they are going to basically crumble one after the other, and just
00:25:58finally, has Iran won the war against the United States and
00:26:01Israel? Yes, oh yes,
00:26:03it is, it is, it is not only one the war,
00:26:07it is a strategic defeat on the part of Israel and
00:26:10particularly the United States and Iran with this victory
00:26:13has basically contributed to the
00:26:17transforming the world order quite
00:26:21massively, and do you think that will be
00:26:25communicated to western audiences or there's a time lag before
00:26:28people in the United States and Western Europe understand that?
00:26:33the second, there is always a time la lag you
00:26:36know in communicating in
00:26:40London, Paris and New York, but not
00:26:43as not as slow as in the past, because
00:26:47because
00:26:47you know we are a media world where you can
00:26:51hardly hide
00:27:01to all those you bereeved or traumatized by today's NATO nation wars of aggression,
00:27:05we'll be back for more on NATO's wars on Monday with multiard winning scholar
00:27:09professor Johnsheimer, until then keep in touch by all our social media if it's not censored in
00:27:13your country and head channel going underground tv on rumble.com to watch new and old
00:27:17episodes of going underground team
00:27:18monday.
00:27:53The deep state has its hands in everything. I was in the middle
00:27:57of it for decades when I blew the whistle on CIA
00:28:01torture, the deep state. turned on me, they ruined my
00:28:04life, took away my rights, threw me in
00:28:08prison, but they didn't break
00:28:10me. fought back
00:28:14and i still do. i'm John Kiriaku on my
00:28:17show, the deep state, take you behind the geopolitical moves, the
00:28:21color revolutions, behind the politics and the
00:28:24politicians. we shine a light on where the deep state is
00:28:28hiding.
00:28:39If any two countries want to resolve issues, they can resolve it outside
00:28:43of Syria, because in Syria we want connectivity to
00:28:47ports, to highways to internet to be hub for,
00:28:51and if we want that, we cannot be area of
00:28:53conflict.
00:29:02apporter du confort matériel à l'habitant la
00:29:06forêt ou la savane, ce sont là des réalisations
00:29:10à mettre à l'actif la présence blanche en
00:29:13afrique.
00:29:18Museum served as an educational platform on Belgium's
00:29:22colonial policy. Dus generaties lang heeft dit museum een
00:29:25boodschap mee gegeven van superioriteit van de blanke ten
00:29:29opzichte van van de zwarte.